'My goodness': Analysts stunned by Zelensky-Laura Loomer meeting

[0:00] Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky telling top Trump ally Laura Loomer during a one-on-one [0:05] interview in Ukraine that his relationship with Donald Trump has improved. [0:11] You are right that the tone has changed. Absolutely. We had first like changing moment [0:17] in Rome in Vatican. Yes, it was not long meeting, but I always said that is, I think, [0:24] historic moment because we we changed their relations during 15, 20 minutes. I'm so happy [0:30] because a lot of lives depends on such relations and dialogue. So that clip emerging just hours [0:38] after the MAGA podcaster posted a photo online revealing the interview and saying, quote, [0:43] I just interviewed President Zelensky at Marinsky Palace in Ukraine. No questions were off limits [0:48] and I didn't pull any punches. Well, the post and sit down came just two days after Loomer had very [0:54] publicly changed her stance on Ukraine after she saw Russian attacks on a historic monastery up close [1:00] and then she said, I feel like such an expletive for minimizing the struggle of Ukrainians over [1:05] the past five years. I often said, I don't care. Looking back, that wasn't very nice of me to say. [1:11] Now, there's some self-awareness there and that's obviously an understatement on the very nice comment [1:17] given some of Loomer's comments on Ukraine. She's said many things, some of which include Ukraine is [1:22] a country full of Nazi apologists and now it's clearly a country led by a jihadi apologist. [1:27] And she's also, well, said a variety of things about the leader she just interviewed like this. [1:35] Zelensky has morphed into more of a dictator than an elected leader at this point. [1:39] He regularly likes to call Putin an authoritarian when he himself is no better and is in fact in [1:45] many ways even worse. [1:47] All right, everyone's here with me. So, um, Essie, what, I mean, how significant is it that [1:56] Zelensky would agree to meet with her? [1:58] The whole thing's odd and interesting. Um, it, it, look, if she, if she was, if she's gonna do [2:05] propaganda, I'd rather it be Zelensky's version of propaganda than Putin's, okay? And, and she was [2:11] regurgitating all the Putin propaganda before. So was Tucker Carlson. All the far right was. That, [2:17] that's crazy. And I'm glad that she, that she went there, right? Yeah. It's one thing to be [2:22] keyboard warrior, warrior, keyboard warrior. It's easy to say things from the safety of the patio [2:27] at Mar-a-Lago. It's much different when you go to a place. That's why we encourage journalists to [2:32] get out of the newsroom. It's why we send members of Congress on CODELs to these places. Go see it. [2:38] It might change your mind and inform your opinion. But I'm very curious, concerned about how this all [2:43] came to be, right? I mean, I covered, um, Tulsi Gabbard going to meet with Bashar al-Assad [2:50] without approval from Congress. And she came back and regurgitated his propaganda and talking points. [2:55] That was very alarming. I'm just, I don't know how this came to be. And I'd be curious if she went [3:00] as an envoy for Trump. Did she go as a podcaster? Did she go as a private citizen? I mean, we don't [3:05] know. And David, I mean, let's just be clear here. When you see her sitting with Zelensky, [3:08] part of the reason your jaw is on the floor, it's not just because she had these opinions about [3:12] Ukraine, which were based on propaganda and a lack of any kind of experience there, [3:17] but where because she has said other things. I mean, she said, if Kamala Harris wins, [3:21] the White House will smell like curry and White House speeches will be facilitated via a call center. [3:26] She said, can't even watch a Super Bowl anymore because immigrants have literally ruined everything. [3:30] And there's a lot more where that came from, right? The image of her sitting across from Ukrainian [3:36] and President Zelensky in that context is incredibly powerful. [3:42] It is. And all I could think of is, my goodness, the things one has to do to save their country. [3:49] And I think he decided this is something he had to do to save his country because, [3:54] you know, she, they call her an influencer, but the person she influences that he cares about [3:59] is Donald Trump. And if this is what it takes, then this is what he's going to do. [4:04] I mean, Ested, is this, I mean, what does this signal to other world leaders? [4:09] I mean, if you're saying, Vladimir Zelensky decided the best way to get to Donald Trump [4:12] was to do what he just did. [4:15] I mean, I think it signals what world leaders have already known, [4:18] which is Donald Trump cares about the folks in his proximity more than he cares about the kind [4:22] of traditional channels of information or facts or a briefing or all the traditional ways [4:27] leaders make decisions. You know, Lumer, I do think it's shocking just to see her in this position. [4:33] I think it speaks to the blurring of lines with journalists, influencer, like all of that [4:38] kind of new media happening right now. This is someone who's anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim rhetoric [4:42] has been so core to their politics. She was kicked off of social media platforms and has only been [4:47] back and influence has grown in the second Trump administration. But she's had a big fight [4:51] with Tucker Carlson. I think this is partly about putting distance between her and him. [4:55] And I think it kind of reflects where a kind of MAGA lane has transitioned where they couldn't be [5:01] against or they couldn't be against aid to Ukraine while also supporting other kind of U.S. [5:06] role in intervention, particularly when we think about Israel's role in Middle East. [5:09] I think you're seeing her represent the new wave in which they're willing to defend the U.S. [5:14] on both sides. She's certainly a late adopter on this issue of Putin's brutality in Ukraine. [5:20] There was plenty of evidence before now of the savagery that we've seen. [5:26] Well, it's amazing, in a sense, just the lack of belief. I mean, for those of us who have been to [5:30] Ukraine and that there would be a complete lack of belief in anything that was presented. [5:35] But that's what propaganda is designed to do. It's good to go for yourself. But propaganda was [5:38] over to, was able to overwhelm reality. For a lot of people, right? For a lot of MAGA and even for a [5:44] lot of journalists. If you look at someone like Lara Loomer, I mean, not Lara Loomer, Lara Logan, [5:49] who was once this, like, award-winning journalist, she fell down these rabbit holes, too, and started [5:55] spewing Russian propaganda and crazy anti-Semitic propaganda. It happens. That's why it's so incumbent [6:00] on us, the press, to check these kinds of things. For all of that, though, you look at polling [6:06] and a vast majority of Americans see Ukraine as an ally and an even larger majority see Russia [6:14] as an adversary and Putin as a negative figure. [6:20] So the group chat is back. I wanted to talk about this because this just isn't a shift in foreign [6:25] policy thought. Loomer has gone after Zelensky in such a specific and intense way. And at one point, [6:33] she tweeted, I feel like such an a-hole for minimizing the struggle of Ukrainians for the [6:38] last five years. This was when an interview, this was on X, and then in an interview with Puck, [6:43] she said, I often said, I don't care. You know, what do you think is behind her even going to have [6:50] the conversation with Zelensky in the first place? Because this is somebody who, she called him a fake [6:56] Jew at one point, right? Like, I'm shocked she took the invitation. No, she throws tough punches, [7:02] and you got to respect her for that. I don't know what the motive... Well, I don't know. I kind of like it. [7:07] Calling someone a fake Jew, no. Well, I'm not saying that. God, I'm gracious. I don't like that. [7:13] Good. Okay. Let's be charitable. Okay. But the bigger picture here is that the change in posture [7:20] with Zelensky, right? He's now, because of J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio and how they've teamed up [7:25] with him, instead of that first meeting at the White House when he was kind of insolent, [7:29] and I would say even entitled, he's now changing. He's working with MAGA influencers to get their [7:35] support over. He knows the free checks and the free rents over, and he's going to have to start [7:39] courting the conservative movement. David Axelrod, Democratic strategist, saying, quote, [7:46] actually, no, we can play this, I think. He said this on CNN on Thursday. [7:52] My goodness, the things one has to do to save their country. [7:56] And I think he decided this is something he had to do to save his country because, [8:01] you know, they call her an influencer, but the person she influences that he cares about [8:07] is Donald Trump. And if this is what it takes, then this is what he's going to do. [8:14] Yeah. You know, I'm so glad that David used the word influencer there, [8:17] because can I be cynical for just a moment, Audie? Look, we live in a culture of memes and [8:23] internet. I call it edgelord diplomacy. It's edgelord diplomacy. And Laura Loomer has been [8:28] more masterful than anyone else at capitalizing on the media and people's ability to click on her [8:36] stuff. And to some extent, this is trending. This is designed to get attention, and she's done it. [8:44] But what does it say, though? I mean, no, no, no, no, not that. But what is actually, [8:50] what does this mean for American diplomacy? Does this actually, the reason this is trending and [8:56] we're all interested is, does this actually signify that there is a change of tone materially [9:01] from this administration, which has been hostile to Ukraine on this issue and the MAGA universe writ [9:08] large? Listen, there is a lot happening in that sphere with Israel now with Ukraine. Are we seeing [9:15] a shift? That is what, you know, who frankly cares what Laura Loomer is or isn't experiencing at any [9:20] time? But we care. It means she's speaking out against the voices that are criticizing the White [9:25] House. Right. So take a Tucker Carlson, who's been very critical of foreign wars. Laura Loomer put out [9:31] this tweet where she is criticizing something that Tucker had said. And she says, Russian state media [9:38] is amplifying Tucker Carlson because there's a whole thing where they think he's backed by Qatar [9:43] and his latest lie that you're allowed to hate Russians because they are white. Her response, [9:48] newsflash, Ukrainians are white, too. Please enjoy this video of Vladimir Putin kissing the Koran. And [9:54] she posts a video along. There's a lot packed into this. There's a lot. There is a lot. A disgusting [9:59] submission to a death cult by an absolute coward. So this person has gone from being like Ukrainians. [10:04] Give me a break. They need to shut up to injecting the whiteness conversation like Tucker. It is [10:12] the right wing patois of all the things in one tweet, but it does set up a different dynamic. Now, [10:20] all of a sudden you have a very powerful voice in that world punching back. I would say this is also [10:26] something to do with 2028. Very much J.D. Vance is aligned with the anti-Ukraine. He was the actual [10:34] mastermind behind that moment with Volodymyr Zelensky. He was the one who spoke out. He's the [10:42] one who kind of set up that dynamic in the Oval Office. And of course, you have the Marco Rubio, [10:49] who has always been very anti-Russia and very pro-Ukraine and supporting Ukraine. And so [10:55] there is a lot more going on here than just Laura Loomer. And the question is, as we all do, [11:01] our criminology or our Trumpology is what does this mean? What clouds are gathering and for what [11:07] reasons? And for what reason?