MS NOW Highlights - April 2

[0:00] It is not my assessment that she has not succeeded in bending this institution to her will. [0:05] It is the president's reading of the situation that it has not been sufficient. [0:10] What is the message then, Carol, to other loyalists? [0:13] And as you are doing your own reporting, do you have a sense of the pitch that folks who want this job moving forward are now making to the president? [0:21] So perfectly described. What's happening here is Donald Trump is sending a signal loud and clear over the horizon and into the ears of the people who are, you know, gunning for this job. [0:38] And that is it's not sufficient to be loyal to me. It's not sufficient to let the White House dictate who gets prosecuted. [0:47] It's not sufficient to, you know, badger the heck out of members of Congress who are exercising their power. [0:53] They're exercising oversight and deflect and avoid and filibuster so you don't answer their questions, even though those are all things Donald Trump values. [1:02] It's not sufficient. What will be sufficient is bringing sort of these scalps to, you know, him at the Oval Office, the scalps of people that he wants to see pay those folks who are on his retribution list. [1:19] Laura, same question for you. Do you have a sense as these folks are pitching themselves to the president? [1:24] The types of promises that they are making? [1:29] We don't have just yet the details on specifically the way they're pitching themselves. [1:35] But I think if you look at the list that we have, which sources have told us are on this short list for the president, all of them at some point questioned or denied the 2020 election, which we know has been a litmus test for this administration. [1:48] They also are people who have been incredibly loyal. [1:52] So the question is, which you pose, Alicia, is. [1:56] How successful can they honestly be in ways that Pam Bondi wasn't? [2:01] Because, again, she brought cases. [2:04] She attempted to prosecute the president's perceived enemies, but those failed. [2:07] Jeanine Pirro herself also attempted to bring a case against those six Democratic lawmakers who who who issued that video telling soldiers that they didn't have to follow unlawful orders. [2:22] And then she had to subsequently essentially drop. [2:25] That case. [2:26] So she also has not been always the most successful. [2:29] I think the question here is who is going to be Senate confirmable. [2:32] They don't necessarily need Democratic votes to confirm one of these potential options. [2:38] Jeanine Pirro did go through Senate confirmation. [2:41] But that is something that I think they are going to have to make the case to the president, given the fact that not just with Pam Bondi, but also with DHS Secretary Christine Ohm, the two biggest exits from his administration here from the cabinet level. [2:55] But that is something that I think they are going to have to make the case to the president, given the fact that not just with Pam Bondi, but also with DHS Secretary Christine Ohm, the two biggest exits from his administration here from the cabinet level. [2:55] It wasn't because they didn't go far enough. [2:58] It was sorry. [2:59] It wasn't because they weren't loyal enough or because they didn't attempt to do the president's bidding. [3:04] You know, Christine Ohm did carry out the harsh deportation policies that the president and those closest to him in the White House wanted. [3:11] It was essentially because they couldn't go far enough. [3:15] They couldn't execute it fast enough in the president's mind. [3:19] And they also brought along some bad headlines along the way. [3:22] And I think that it was the contribution of those bad headlines. [3:25] Be it about Epstein, but also not being able to fully carry out the president's bidding, who and we hear the president just yesterday and repeatedly over the last few weeks, repeatedly referring to himself as potentially a king and saying that he wishes at times he were a king. [3:41] And I think that that is what ultimately factors in here is who is going to be able to carry out his bidding and to attempt to plow through the courts. [3:51] And I think that whoever he ultimately nominates. [3:54] And Carol can probably speak to this as well, too, will be met in a similar fashion to the way Pam Bondi was met. [4:01] OK, we're going to come back to that. [4:03] But I want to talk about those bad headlines that Laura referenced. [4:07] Michael Feinberg with the Epstein case. [4:10] Let's remember what it was that Pam Bondi said at the start of her tenure. [4:14] One of the things that you alluded to, and this is something Donald Trump has talked about, the DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. [4:27] Will that really happen? [4:28] It's sitting on my desk right now to review. [4:32] That's been a directive by President Trump. [4:34] I'm reviewing that. [4:36] I mean, it goes without saying this is going to be one of the most indelible moments of her tenure, Michael Feinberg. [4:41] And it's easy to look at retrospectively and say from that moment she effectively set herself up for failure. [4:49] I mean, look, I think she set herself up for failure from day one because she took a job that if American democracy holds is going to be impossible for her to do. [5:00] Right. [5:00] Right. [5:00] Right. [5:00] Right. [5:00] Right. [5:00] Right. [5:00] Right. [5:00] Right. [5:00] Right. [5:00] Right. [5:00] Right. [5:00] Right. [5:00] Right. [5:00] Right. [5:00] Right. [5:00] Right. [5:00] Right. [5:01] Right. [5:01] Right. [5:01] Right. [5:02] Right. [5:02] Right. [5:03] Right. [5:03] Right. [5:05] Right. [5:05] Right. [5:05] Right. [5:05] Right. [5:05] Right. [5:05] Right. [5:05] Right. [5:05] Right. [5:06] Right. [5:06] Right. [5:06] Right. [5:06] Right. [5:06] Right. [5:06] She really helped bring the Epstein controversy to the fore during the campaign in the early years of the presidency. [5:13] And then the administration realized it had written checks that they couldn't cash because one of the names that repeatedly appears is that of the president, Donald Trump. [5:24] So, I mean, it's hard to muster sympathy for Pam Bondi for many reasons. [5:31] but primarily because she dug her career's own grave here. She didn't have to amplify the [5:39] Epstein files. She didn't have to say she was going to be able to prosecute and indict all [5:44] the president's enemies. She could have played her cards a little closer to the vest. She could [5:49] have been a little bit more strategic. In other words, she could have exhibited the qualities [5:55] that lawyers are hired for in the first place. She chose instead to sacrifice her integrity [6:01] for the sake of power. And now she has neither. Carol, do you have a sense of what the reaction [6:08] has been inside of DOJ? You know, there's a there's a large group of people who are still, [6:16] as I describe in a couple of settings, holding on by their fingernails because they care deeply [6:22] about the shared mission and values of the Department of Justice that they have long known [6:27] and that Mike also worked under. And they are a little bit elated that Pam Bondi is gone. [6:36] But full of apprehension about what this means for the next attorney general. Because if Pam [6:42] Bondi's version of bending a knee, bending the Department of Justice to the president's will, [6:49] if her version isn't sufficient, how much worse will it get? You know, it is going to be I love [6:57] the way you phrase these questions, Alicia, because it is going to be nigh impossible to [7:03] surpass the factual challenges that are. [7:06] Necessary to indict and prosecute people without strong evidence, without evidence that's beyond a [7:12] reasonable doubt. And it's hard to imagine how the next AG is going to jump that hurdle in a way [7:18] that's different than Pam Bondi. But inside the department, there are people quite nervous about [7:23] what the next attorney general is going to have to be willing to do to meet Donald Trump's standard. [7:31] And Michael, given the almost symbiotic relationship between the FBI and the DOJ, what are [7:35] you hearing from? [7:36] My phone is blowing up with gifts of children dancing in celebration and slightly more muted [7:48] expressions of joy. [7:49] Indeed. Very quickly, before I let you go, Laura, your sense as the president and his [7:56] inner circle put together this short list, how quickly we can expect this to move? [8:01] Well, right now, Todd Blanch, the deputy attorney general is in place, is acting for the interim. So, [8:09] it's, it's hard to tell how quickly the president is going to move, but he has a number of people [8:14] here who he has been close with for years and people who he is very fond of. He has created [8:22] a soft landing for Bondi, similar to what he kind of did for Kristi Noem, because he also [8:27] was fond of Bondi. But he is very close to Jeanine Pirro. He's very close to Alina Haba, [8:33] his former personal attorney. These are people who are regularly either at the White House or [8:39] Palm Beach. And so we know that they are definitely pitching him right now as well as his [8:46] aides close to him for this potential position. [8:49] Alina Haba, truly the definition of if at first you don't succeed, dust yourself off and try again. [8:54] Well, the big story of the day was that Donald Trump fired the top general in the United States [9:01] Army in the middle of Donald Trump's war in Iran that is going so badly that last night, [9:08] Donald Trump officially [9:10] announced that he is surrendering control of the Strait of Hormuz to Iran. The top general of the [9:17] United States Army served every day of World War II under two presidents. When firing the top [9:24] general would have been seen as chaos in the war effort. Presidents who are winning and confidently [9:31] winning wars do not fire the top general. But today, Donald Trump's utterly incompetent [9:38] Secretary of Defense demanded the resignation of General Randy George from the position of [9:44] Army Chief of Staff. And he has asked General George to then immediately retire from the [9:49] United States Army. That was going to be the top story of the day until Donald Trump decided to [9:55] fire his second choice for Attorney General Pamela Bondi. And we must always remember, [10:03] she was the second choice. There is a long-running and rarely violated gentleman's agreement in [10:09] Hollywood. [10:10] Which also has become a gentlewoman's agreement for movie stars to never publicly talk about the [10:17] roles they turned down so that other movie stars would never have to suffer the public [10:23] embarrassment and humiliation of being second choice. No one in Trump world finds that [10:33] embarrassing. Donald Trump's current wife, for example, finds no shame in being third choice. [10:39] And Pamela Bondi was honored to be Donald Trump's second [10:43] choice for Attorney General in his second term after enough Republican United States Senators let [10:51] Donald Trump know that his first choice, Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz, whose only experience with [10:57] the Justice Department was as the subject of an investigation of possible sex trafficking, could [11:03] not be confirmed even by a Republican Senate. Who could possibly hold their head high as Donald [11:11] Trump's second choice to floor the Senate? And who could possibly hold their head high as Donald [11:15] Trump's second choice to floor the Senate? And who could possibly hold their head high as Donald [11:15] Trump's second choice to floor the Senate? And who could possibly hold their head high as Donald [11:16] Trump's second choice to floor the Senate? And who could possibly hold their head high as Donald [11:16] Trump's second choice to floor the Senate? And who could possibly hold their head high as Donald [11:17] Trump's second choice to floor the Senate? And who could possibly hold their head high as Donald [11:17] Trump's second choice to floor the Senate? And who could possibly hold their head high as Donald [11:18] Trump's second choice to floor the Senate? And who could possibly hold their head high as Donald [11:18] Trump's second choice to floor the Senate? And who could possibly hold their head high as Donald [11:19] Trump's second choice to floor the Senate? And who could possibly hold their head high as Donald [11:20] Trump's second choice to floor the Senate? And who could possibly hold their head high as Donald [11:20] Florida's own Pamela Bondi. And so she sailed through her confirmation hearing on a purely [11:28] partisan vote and settled into her office recently vacated by Joe Biden's attorney general who served [11:34] all four years of the Biden presidency, which is the norm for attorneys general, by the way. [11:40] Bill Clinton had one attorney general for eight years of his presidency. If Pamela Bondi had [11:47] glanced at a list of her predecessors, she would have noticed that Donald Trump in his first term [11:53] went through more attorneys general than any president in history, including Richard Nixon, [11:59] who had two of his attorneys general convicted of crimes. Donald Trump fired his first two [12:06] acting attorneys general before his first appointed and confirmed attorney general, [12:11] Jeff Sessions, was sworn in. No president had ever fired an acting attorney general. [12:18] While waiting for his nominated attorney general to be confirmed by the Senate, [12:23] and many presidents have been organized enough to have their attorney general confirmed on the job [12:30] by the first day of the new presidency. Donald Trump became the first president in history to [12:36] fire his first confirmed attorney general, Jeff Sessions, and Donald Trump's second confirmed [12:42] attorney general, William Barr, did what Pamela Bondi never had the courage or integrity to do. [12:47] He quit. [12:48] Donald Trump tried to engage the attorney general in the criminal conspiracy Donald Trump got [12:54] indicted for in his plot to overturn the 2020 presidential election. So in his first term, [12:59] Donald Trump went through two confirmed attorneys general and six acting attorneys general. And the [13:07] one attorney general who quit, quit because he would not commit crimes for Donald Trump. [13:14] I know the best people. I know the best managers. I know the best dealmakers. I know people that [13:20] will make us so strong. [13:22] I know guys that are so good. [13:24] That was candidate Trump's promise. He would get you the best people in government. And now Donald [13:34] Trump has fired his first confirmed attorney general of the second term and elevated his [13:39] deputy attorney general to acting attorney general, thereby leaving another gem for historians whose [13:45] eyes will be widening in libraries around the world forever when they come upon the fact that [13:50] the acting attorney general who took over when this attorney general was fired, he's going to be [13:54] the next president. [13:55] And the other attorney general who was fired was Donald Trump's personal criminal defense lawyer who [13:59] won Donald Trump 34 guilty verdicts in a criminal trial in Manhattan and served as his criminal defense [14:05] lawyer in special prosecutor Jack Smith's case against Donald Trump for conspiracy against the [14:10] United States of America in his attempt to overturn the 2020 presidential election and in a separate [14:16] criminal case, charging Donald Trump with violations of the espionage act in his illegal possession of [14:23] classified documents. [14:26] The acting attorney general of the United States tonight, Todd Blanch, has gone from playing a Trump puppet in criminal [14:31] courtrooms to playing a Trump puppet now tonight in the attorney general's office. [14:38] Todd Blanch has already disgraced himself with his friendly questioning, which included an awful lot of laughing of [14:46] Jeffrey Epstein's convicted co-conspirator in sex trafficking, Ghislaine Maxwell, after which Ghislaine Maxwell was [14:54] transferred from a serious federal prison to what a former federal prison. [14:56] to what a former federal prison to what a former federal prison to what a former federal prison to what a former federal prison [14:57] official calls a country club based on Donald Trump's record, based on the indictments of Donald Trump, based on the [15:06] Mueller investigation of an obstruction of justice by Donald Trump, based on his continuously deteriorating ethical and [15:14] mental condition. [15:15] The one thing we know for sure about Donald Trump's next attorney general is that that attorney general will very likely be [15:22] asked to commit crimes by and for Donald Trump. [15:27] And. [15:29] And anyone asked by Donald Trump to serve as attorney general must by now know that he or she will probably be asked to commit crimes. [15:39] And so we are no doubt some weeks away from a Senate confirmation hearing in which our first guest tonight, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, will be [15:47] asking Donald Trump's nominee for attorney general to promise under oath not to commit crimes for the president of the United States. [15:56] And we know that nothing a Trump nominee says in a Senate confirmation hearing is ever reliable. [16:01] And so we know the answers to that question will not be believable. [16:04] And so we know the answers to that question will not be believable. [16:06] Here is how Pamela Bondi knew for sure she was being fired. [16:10] Here is how Pamela Bondi knew for sure she was being fired. [16:12] Yesterday Donald Trump told the New York Times, quote, attorney general Pam Bondi is a wonderful person and she is doing a good job. [16:15] Here is how Pamela Bondi knew for sure she was being fired. [16:17] Yesterday Donald Trump told the New York Times, quote, attorney general Pam Bondi is a wonderful person and she is doing a good job. [16:19] Yesterday Donald Trump told the New York Times, quote, attorney general Pam Bondi is a wonderful person and she is doing a good job. [16:21] Yesterday Donald Trump told the New York Times, quote, attorney general Pam Bondi is a wonderful person and she is doing a good job. [16:23] That's what proved to Pam Bondi she was going to be fired. [16:37] Considering firing Pam Bondi when the attorney general found out that that was Donald Trump's response to The Times, the attorney general and her staff could sense that her job was, quote, slipping away when Mr. Trump issued only a lukewarm statement when The New York Times requested comment on reporting that she was about to be removed. [16:58] So if you're a Trump cabinet official and Donald Trump says you're a wonderful person and you're doing a good job, those are the code words for you will be fired tomorrow. [17:08] Donald Trump achieved minor celebrity working at the bottom of the barrel in so-called reality TV, where his catchphrase was the worst thing you could hear in the workplace. [17:21] You're fired. People's lives have actually been destroyed by those words in real life. [17:27] But a sociopath might think that saying those words is entertaining. [17:33] So Donald Trump fires his attorney general today in a tweet in which he says, [17:38] Pam Bondi is a great American patriot and a loyal friend. [17:42] Who faithfully served as my attorney general over the past year. [17:46] That was it. Just the past tense on the verb serve. [17:52] That's how Donald Trump announces his firings. [17:55] And the next sentence begins in utterly nonsensical Trumpian style, saying, [18:03] Pam did a tremendous job. [18:05] And so your reward in Trump world for doing a tremendous job is to be fired. [18:09] Or if you do the job the way Donald Trump hates, [18:13] he will still be fired. [18:13] He will publicly lie for you and say you did a tremendous job as he's firing you. [18:19] That's his new second term style of firing. [18:23] The only president in history who claimed he had the discerning eye and important relationships in the country that meant he would hire only the best people has fired more people than any president in history. [18:36] Just two weeks ago, Donald Trump became the very first president in history to fire a secretary of homeland security. [18:45] Donald Trump has become more rhetorically generous in his firing of a confirmed attorney general in his second term. [18:53] Here's the way he did it the first time. [18:55] On November 7th, 2018, we are pleased to announce that Matthew G. Whitaker, chief of staff to Attorney General Jeff Sessions at the Department of Justice, will become our new acting attorney general of the United States. [19:08] He will serve our country well. [19:10] We thank Attorney General Jeff Sessions for his service and wish him well. [19:14] A permanent replacement will be made. [19:15] A permanent replacement will be made. [19:16] A permanent replacement will be made. [19:17] A permanent replacement will be nominated at a later date. [19:19] That was it. [19:20] We're pleased to announce not that Jeff Sessions is fired. [19:24] We're pleased to announce we have a new attorney general. [19:28] Jeff Sessions did not get one of those did a tremendous job lines from Donald Trump in Jeff Sessions' frameable you're fired tweet. [19:41] The Atlantic is reporting tonight that Donald Trump is considering other possible firings, including his FBI director Kashyap Patel. [19:47] The Atlantic reporting. [19:48] Trump had been reluctant to get rid of any of his top lieutenants viewing [19:53] firings as a concession to the Democrats and the media even in the past few [19:59] months there had been an edict that no cabinet official would be removed prior [20:04] to the midterms though a series of dismissals were planned for after [20:09] Election Day but the president's declining support since he launched the [20:13] Iran war has changed the political calculus congressman Eric Swalwell he's a [20:22] Democrat from California he serves on the Judiciary Committee and is a [20:26] candidate for governor he joins me now congressman good to see you so as I'm [20:32] sure you saw Shelby Talcott from Semaphore was on with me earlier today [20:36] and she's been reporting that part of the reason Bondi was fired is that Trump [20:41] suspects that Bondi leaked some information to you about an [20:45] F4 [20:45] effort by the administration to release files from a ten-year-old closed [20:49] investigation into your relationship with an alleged Chinese spy did Bondi [20:55] or anyone in her orbit leak information to you congressman no no the Attorney [21:02] General did not tip us off no one in her orbit tipped us off it was FBI agents [21:08] who tipped off the Washington Post because they saw this effort by Kash [21:13] Patel and Donald Trump to try and interfere in a California governor's [21:17] race [21:17] that I have been leading and and so you know what this shows though and [21:23] what is quite concerning is that Donald Trump is seeing ghosts he's certainly [21:27] gunning for us and he wants an Attorney General who's willing to break the law [21:33] and weaponized the Department of Justice against his political enemies that is [21:37] what has to be intolerable not just for Pam Bondi [21:42] and I don't know the reasons why she was let go but it has to be intolerable for [21:47] for anybody who sits in that chair and carries out what we hope to be the rule of law and a [21:53] system of justice. So you say you don't know the reason that she was fired, but you know that it [21:58] wasn't you. I have no, I'm curious though. I'm curious though. And he's tweeting at me at four [22:05] 45 in the morning. So, Hey, I cannot get into Donald Trump's head. I would never ask that of [22:10] you. But when you look at the facts at what we do know at what my colleague, Ken Delaney, [22:16] and just laid out there, do you see this as a case that's more likely about her failure to [22:24] successfully go after his perceived enemies like yourself, like Adam Schiff, like Tish James, [22:29] although they're trying another route to go after her right now, or do you see this as an Epstein [22:34] related PR problem? It concerns me that it looks like it's the former that she won't go after [22:43] enough enemies. And by the way, most of them, I don't know many Americans who are saying, [22:47] uh, [22:47] I need Donald Trump to go after more of his political enemies. They're already seeing him [22:52] come for Adam Schiff, Tish James, Lisa cook, myself, the six members of Congress who spoke [22:58] out about what the military, uh, can and cannot do. This is not what people want the president [23:04] to prioritize. And I can't speak for every American, but I can speak for Californians [23:12] and Californians want him to just focus on being a president who lowers the costs on [23:18] day one. He hasn't lowered the cost on day one. He's been a dictator since day one. That's the [23:22] only promise that he's kept, but people want him to just lower the costs. Do Democrats have much [23:28] to celebrate? I've seen some of your colleagues putting out statements. Um, I know they're [23:33] certainly not shedding a tear for, uh, Bondi today, but we have now Blanche who some of the [23:40] that our team has spoken to in some cases, they actually see him as even more responsible, uh, [23:47] because he flew down, met with, [23:49] Elaine Maxwell after that interaction, she of course got into better digs in this sort [23:53] of prison camp. Um, and he's sort of been side by side with her throughout that entire [24:00] process. Then we know that Lee Zeldin is interested in the job, Jeanine Piro. I mean, is there [24:04] a scenario in which, from the democratic perspective, what comes next is even worse. That's right. [24:14] This is not something to celebrate because we know Donald Trump's instincts here seem [24:20] to be that he wants somebody [24:22] to exercise maximum corruption against his political enemies. [24:27] And what the deputy attorney general and acting attorney general should know is that [24:32] democrats are going to win the Congress this coming fall and Jamie Raskin, uh, and Robert [24:39] Garcia are going to have gables and they're going to have the subpoena power and they're [24:43] going to have the power of oversight and the power, uh, of the purse speaker Jeffries [24:47] to fund Congress. It's all coming out. [24:50] It always has. [24:51] This. [24:51] Exactly. [24:52] You. [24:52] of our country, from J. Edgar Hoover to Watergate and Richard Nixon to the last time Donald Trump [24:59] was elected and acted so corruptly. It is all coming out. And by the way, we are at war. [25:06] Gas prices are soaring. Iran seeks to attack us on the homeland. And the surveillance powers that [25:11] the FBI uses expire on April 20. Democrats are telling me, over 100 of them have told me that [25:18] they will not reauthorize this if this is what they are doing with their law enforcement powers, [25:23] that they will not give them those powers to protect the homeland if it's just going to be [25:27] used to go after their political enemies. The stakes are high. And the consequences, [25:32] though, for abuses of power come this time next year will be even higher. [25:37] Speaking of oversight, what do you think the chances are that she actually comes forward [25:40] and goes before lawmakers and testifies under oath, as she was supposed to do in just a matter [25:46] of days? [25:47] That should still happen. And [25:50] the Epstein debacle and the promises that the president made, it's not going away. There's [25:57] more questions now than have been answered from the multiple witnesses who have come forward and [26:04] the lack of, I would say, compliance that the administration has shown on releasing the files. [26:10] And Democrats are saying, we don't care if she simply does not. I mean, our colleague, [26:15] Michael Schnell, she spoke with staff for Chairman Comer. [26:20] And it sounds like the suggestions seem to be, if she's not AG anymore, [26:25] why would we have her show up? So what are Democrats going to do if she tries to wiggle out of this? [26:32] Well, Democrats have, on this issue, been able to find Republican co-sponsors. You know, [26:37] there are people like Thomas Massey and others who have worked with us to find justice [26:41] for these victims. And the margins in Congress are so thin right now that you don't need to find [26:46] too many. And that's, again, why I am telegraphing that when Democrats are in the, [26:51] you know, most of the time, you know, most of the time, you know, most of the time, [26:52] you know, most of the time, you know, most of the time, [26:52] next year, it's all coming out. And so the brave FBI agents who came forward to, [26:59] you know, make it clear what abuses were occurring against us in this governor's race [27:04] last week, come forward now. If you continue these abuses, you will be before Congress. [27:11] Reputationally, you won't get through this. If you come forward, though, and you say no to these [27:16] abuses and you tell, you know, the Congress and the whistleblower protections that you have, [27:21] you will be protected. [27:22] It's that clear right now. And, you know, the stakes of not coming forward for our democracy [27:27] are so consequential and could end this 250-year experiment of freedom. [27:35] All right, Congressman Eric Swalwell, good to see you. Thank you. [27:39] You too. My pleasure. [27:40] Before I play you this next very instructive clip, I want to note that the only reason we [27:46] have it is because the White House seemingly accidentally posted a live stream of it, [27:51] which they then tried to delete, but not before the Internet saved it for posterity. [27:55] And just for context, Donald Trump starts by referring to the head of the Office of Management [27:59] and Budget, the Christian nationalist author of Project 2025, Russell Vogt. [28:07] We can't take care of daycare. We're a big country. We have 50 states. We have all these [28:11] other people. We're fighting wars. We can't take care of daycare. You got to let a state [28:16] take care of daycare, and they should pay for it, too. They should pay. They have to raise their [28:21] taxes, but they should pay for it. We have to take care of one thing, military protection. We have to [28:27] guard the country. We have to guard the country. We have to guard the country. We have to guard the [28:27] country. All these little scams that have taken place, like that little scam daycare. [28:35] Joining me now is Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen, member of the Foreign Relations [28:38] Committee. Senator, good to see you. Thank you for being with us. Let me throw some numbers out [28:42] at you. Apparently, the Penn Wharton budget model says this war has cost $65 billion so far. [28:49] White House is asking for $200 billion for it. The Tomahawk missiles alone are $3 billion. They [28:56] take a year to two to build per missile. We've spent $3 billion. [29:00] This is in a country where we had Doge ripping apart the government last year. We had people [29:05] not getting their food stamps. We have people not getting their Obamacare subsidies. But we're [29:11] spending somewhere between $65 billion and $200 billion on a war that no one is able to explain. [29:20] Well, Ali, that's right. And we should all remember that during the campaign, [29:24] candidate Donald Trump promised that he would keep us out of foreign wars and focus instead on [29:30] trying to make things better right here at home. Instead, [29:33] he is, along with Prime Minister Netanyahu, started a foreign war. Prices are going up. [29:40] And now he says, well, we've got to pay for this war in Iran by cutting back on federal investments. [29:46] You played the clip with child care. But there are also other points in that speech where he [29:51] talks about cutting Medicaid, cutting Medicare. So the bottom line is the president, who said he [29:59] wouldn't start a war, now wants to pay for it by cutting deep. [30:03] into American health care programs and other programs that help American families here at [30:08] home. But that's not that surprising, is it, Senator? I mean, you go back to the history of [30:12] wars that America has started. One group tends to benefit from this very well, either oil producers [30:17] or munitions makers. I mean, that's just that's the nature of the game. It becomes too much money [30:23] that we have to pay for a war. So you're going to have to cut it from the people who can least [30:26] afford it. Well, that's that's exactly right. I mean, you've got defense contractors who are [30:33] going to be raking it in and other folks who are, you know, who are going to be, you know, who are [30:35] close to the president are going to be raking it in. But the American people will suffer. And of [30:40] course, this comes on top of what Donald Trump and Republicans in Washington did last year, right? [30:46] They passed their so-called big, beautiful bill, which was beautiful. If you're a billionaire, [30:51] you got really big tax cuts. But to partially pay for that, they cut Medicaid, they cut food [30:58] nutrition programs. So now comes this year and Donald Trump goes off and starts a war and says, [31:04] well, we're going to have to cut back on Medicare. We're going to have to cut back on Medicaid. We're [31:10] going to have to cut back on our efforts to make child care more affordable. So at the end of the [31:15] day, he is screwing the American people and doing exactly what he said he was going to avoid. He said [31:23] he was going to focus on things here at home, keep us out of foreign wars. He's done exactly the [31:27] opposite. I was talking to Ben Rhodes about this a minute ago. I want to play it for you. Something [31:31] that he said about gas prices in the Oval Office. Let's listen. [31:37] Today, they had four dollars. We have a country that's not going to be throwing a nuclear weapon [31:44] at us in six months. Americans are feeling the effects in the interim. And they're also feeling [31:49] a lot safer. What is the plan to bring them back down? All I have to do is leave Iran and we'll be [31:55] doing that very soon. And they'll become tumbling down. We're not going to have a country that's [32:00] going to be throwing a nuclear weapon at us in six months. That's just nonsensical talk. There was [32:05] no. I mean, you know, these things you're on. You're on. [32:08] Serious committees in the Senate. There was no discussion about Iran throwing a nuclear weapon [32:13] at America in six months or six years. It was a complete and total lie, Ali. And, you know, [32:23] the president himself, you know, told the country last year that he had decimated it. [32:29] Iran's nuclear enrichment program obliterated it. And then his DNI, Tulsi Gabbard, testified [32:35] publicly the other day that Iran has made no effort to try to reconstitute [32:40] that nuclear enrichment program. And so that was just a complete and total lie. And as you and [32:46] Ben Rhodes discussed, I mean, they're nowhere near any kind of ballistic missile that can reach the [32:51] United States. So this was all a fabrication by the president of the United States to try to [32:58] justify his actions while Americans are here hurting here at home. We've lost 13 of our [33:03] service members, hundreds wounded. As you discussed, thousands of civilians killed in the region. And [33:10] $2 billion a day, we, the American taxpayers, while gas prices are going up. And now Donald [33:17] Trump says, well, you know, we've got to cut back on other investments that are important to the [33:24] American people. This war should never have started. We should end it now. Donald Trump [33:29] is talking about asking for another $200 billion. And I can tell you, Ali, I won't vote for one more [33:36] dime for this illegal war of choice. [33:39] I think we're going to find a lot of people on both sides of the aisle who are going to say [33:43] no one has given us an explanation as to why we need to be spending another dime on this war. [33:48] Senator, good to see you as always. Thank you for joining us. [33:52] Donald Trump's rhetoric on Iran now confronts a harsh reality. This morning, hours after his [33:58] primetime address defending his decision to enter into an armed conflict with Iran, [34:02] the conservative National Review issued this blunt critique, quote, [34:10] The New York Times noted that the president's failure to, quote, [34:15] define a clear path out of the conflict was determinative. And Wall Street also experienced [34:22] volatility in both oil and stocks after the president bizarrely claimed that the Strait [34:28] of Hormuz would open, quote, naturally. The Strait will open up naturally. That will [34:36] resume the flowing and the gas prices will rapidly come back down. Stock prices will [34:42] rapidly come back down. And the U.S. will open up naturally. And the U.S. will open up naturally. [34:43] Many nations do not appear to share the president's confidence that the Strait will open [34:51] naturally. Today, diplomats from over 40 countries met to discuss a plan to reopen [34:57] the Strait. The AP reports that the United States did not attend. In his speech last night, [35:04] President Trump also doubled down on threats to attack civilian infrastructure in Iran, [35:10] a potential war crime. The president said, quote, If there is no deal, [35:15] we are going to hit each and every one of their electric generating plants. And, quote, [35:20] we're going to bring them back to the Stone Ages where they belong. This afternoon, [35:26] Trump posted a video of a strike on a major bridge near Tehran with the caption, quote, [35:32] much more to follow. Just to recap, Iran's regime remains in place. Iran continues to have a stock [35:40] of enriched uranium. And Iran continues to choke off access to the Strait of Hormuz. [35:46] New polling shows that Americans disapprove of the president's handling of this war by a two [35:53] to one margin. Joining me now to discuss all of this is Paul Rickoff, national security and [35:59] political analyst, the host of the Independent Americans podcast, and the founder and CEO of [36:04] Independent Veterans of America. Paul, help me understand, how is the Strait of Hormuz going to [36:12] open naturally? How does that work? It won't. And it's not working. [36:17] And I think it's the flashpoint for kind of the world's gas station. And this, I think, [36:22] is maybe the most important pain point for Trump politically. Obviously, gas prices are now surging [36:27] toward $5. The entire world is facing a potential energy crisis. And I think it's the epicenter of [36:32] how much he screwed this whole thing up. I mean, the world can see that he has not only failed to [36:38] rally the world and failed to put forward clear objectives, he's losing control of the story. [36:42] I think that's where you see some desperation. Last night was a total debacle. [36:47] It was a nothing burger. And it was very unlike Trump, because he didn't really make any news. [36:51] He tried to snatch the microphone and ram his rhetoric and his rationale down the country's [36:56] throat. But he looked old. He looked tired. He was meandering and unfocused. It was a moment where [37:01] I felt old and tired at the end of it. I mean, the only good news was it was only about 20 minutes [37:05] long, right? So by his standards, it was pretty short. But he didn't make any news on announcing [37:09] ground troops, which is also some good news. We could have seen that. But I think folks who were [37:13] hoping to get inspired, hoping to get moved, or hoping to hear it was over, [37:17] got nothing. And I would even argue that the networks should reconsider whether they give [37:20] him airtime in prime time for a speech like that. But he's trying to rip back the narrative. He's [37:24] trying to control the story. And the war is going sideways. The lid is off now, and he can't control [37:29] it. And even if he did pull out troops tomorrow and he stopped the bombing, which is what I think [37:33] most of the country wanted to hear, this carnage and the violence wouldn't stop. And that's why [37:37] he's totally lost control of it. Well, to your point about him losing control of the narrative, [37:41] 40-plus countries met today to figure out what to do about the Strait of Hormuz, which, as you say, [37:47] is a major conduit for the flow of oil throughout the world. So this is now a global energy crisis, [37:53] not just something that's affecting us, although Americans are definitely feeling the pain of this. [37:58] What do you make of the fact that our allies and other countries are banding together without us [38:04] in order to address this problem? I think this is a new normal. I think we have to face a new [38:09] normal where America is not necessarily causing the shots, calling the shots. I mean, we are. [38:14] We are causing the shots. We're causing the shots and causing the shock, [38:17] but we're almost being treated like a rogue nation. I mean, we're becoming more isolated [38:21] by the day. He didn't attack NATO last night full-throatedly like they had previewed, [38:24] which I think is important because the Italians have closed airspace to American assets. [38:29] The Spanish have closed airspace to America. So we've become more and more isolated. I think now [38:34] what we're seeing is we can't drive the rest of the world and the rest of the world can move on [38:38] without us. We're seeing that Israel is going to move forward regardless of what the U.S. does. [38:42] And now everyone else is suffering. So they're going to put Donald Trump in a little corner [38:47] and he doesn't act up. The problem is we have 50,000 American troops in harm's way. We've still [38:51] got thousands that he could drop onto the ground. There's now reporting that he wants to do an [38:55] operation to insert special forces and try to secure the Iranian. But every one of his objectives [38:59] that he's tried to lay out, as you illustrated, have all been left incomplete. So even as he [39:04] continues to shift the goalposts and move the narrative, the world is calling his bluff. And [39:08] I think most importantly, we're less safe. We're more isolated. We're less safe. And it's getting [39:13] worse by the day. So the president was supposed to clarify why we're in Iran and [39:17] what the path forward is. Did he make the case yesterday? And if he didn't, [39:21] what new questions do you now have? No, he didn't clarify anything. I mean, [39:25] even worse, he made it more murky. And I think that's really the problem, especially [39:29] within his base where Republicans are jumping ship. I mean, this is his Hurricane Katrina moment, [39:35] right? This is his Afghanistan moment for Biden, where his base is giving up. They said they've [39:39] had enough. And now we've got a unifying moment where most of the country is actually united on [39:43] something opposing the Iran war. And I think the real thing we have to ask, [39:47] is he still going to try to go for Cuba? Is he still going to continue a forever war? Because [39:51] it is that. It's much bigger than Iran. It's a forever war. And that's exactly the opposite of [39:56] what he promised when he ran for reelection. This is not Donald the Dove. No, no. I mean, [40:00] this is a 2.0 on steroids that's mangled and meandering. And most importantly, his base is [40:06] pushing back. And they've had enough. Everybody wanted to hear last night that he was going to [40:09] stop. And he didn't stop. He said he's going further. And that's why especially conservatives [40:13] are pushing back.