Miller is ‘the worst of all possible choices’: Reactions to Trump’s new chief of staff

[0:00] Senator, tell us, good to see you. [0:01] What's your reaction to Trump naming Stephen Miller [0:04] the new White House Chief of Staff? [0:07] The worst of all possible choices. [0:09] I mean, look, Jay, last Tuesday, this past Tuesday, [0:14] Republicans lost because we lost the narrative [0:17] on the border, a success that the president [0:19] should have been heralding by shutting off the border, [0:22] ending the open borders policies of Biden. [0:25] We lost a Hispanic vote in large part [0:29] because of the mismanagement of that policy [0:31] and Homeland Security policy, which are the two majors [0:35] that Stephen Miller has declared [0:36] in his time in the White House. [0:38] Now, we're talking about putting [0:40] one of the most partisan polarizing figures, [0:43] and not only polarizing in terms of Republicans and Democrats, [0:48] but even among Republicans. [0:50] How do we think somebody as divisive of a background [0:54] as Stephen Miller is going to be the olive branch we need [0:58] to the new Democratic majorities in Congress [1:01] to get things done? [1:03] You know, I've criticized a lot of the president's advisors [1:07] for bad advice that I think he authorized [1:10] that created some of the environment on Tuesday, [1:13] but the president made this decision, [1:15] and the president needs to rethink it. [1:17] It is a colossal mistake, and the last thing we need, [1:20] 72 hours after the ass whooping we got on Tuesday. [1:25] After Republicans suffered those historic losses [1:27] in the midterm elections, [1:29] Trump said he was willing to work with Democrats. [1:32] You alluded to this a second ago, [1:33] but what does this appointment, Miller as chief of staff, [1:37] signal to you about how Trump's gonna deal [1:41] with this incoming Congress? [1:45] I think they're gonna learn very quickly [1:48] that they had an accommodating, [1:51] maybe almost too accommodating Congress [1:54] under Republican control, and they're not, [1:57] I hate to use the term, [1:58] but they're not in Kansas anymore. [2:00] They're gonna be at a very different world [2:02] starting in January, and they need to govern that way, [2:06] or we're gonna see disruptions and positioning [2:09] that the Democrats will use against us in 28. [2:12] I've had several phone calls over the last two days [2:15] preparing to make the Republicans stronger at 28. [2:18] This takes us a step in the wrong direction. [2:20] It's gotta be fixed. [2:22] So as you note, Stephen Miller was the architect [2:24] of Trump's wildly unpopular immigration policy. [2:27] What became unpopular? [2:29] It started off popular, as you note, [2:30] closing the border as a popular achievement, [2:33] but the excesses or perceived excesses [2:35] by immigration enforcement agents, [2:38] the deaths of Renee Good and Alex Preddy in Minnesota, [2:41] et cetera, turned a lot of people off, [2:43] especially Latino voters in Texas. [2:45] The Wall Street Journal reported earlier this week [2:47] that even though, that even Trump thought Miller's [2:50] aggressive campaign had gone too far. [2:52] So I can't square this really. [2:55] He thinks that Miller has gone too far, [2:58] and then he makes him his chief of staff? [3:02] You can't square it. [3:03] It doesn't make sense. [3:05] Look, it is, I think it was, [3:07] I have a lot of respect for Susie Wiles, [3:10] but I thought it was appropriate for her to move on. [3:13] We had a disastrous political consequence. [3:16] I've been warning people about since April of 2025, [3:19] but it was appropriate for her to move on, I think. [3:21] What was inappropriate is to take a guy who made us lose [3:25] on the immigration issue. [3:26] People had forgotten that the president secured the border. [3:29] This is the guy that went on TV and said, [3:31] it's the position of the American government [3:34] that Greenland should be a part of the United States. [3:37] When I went off and said, [3:38] you don't speak for the American people, [3:40] you speak for the executive branch. [3:42] And that was another, what we've got there, [3:44] Stephen Miller's probably claiming credit for it, [3:46] that we finally gonna do basing in Greenland. [3:49] We've had that since 1951, guys. [3:52] We gained nothing through that drama, [3:54] except damaging some of our relationship [3:56] with some of our most important allies. [3:58] So he's spelled on domestic policy. [4:00] He's spelled on immigration policy. [4:02] He's spelled on interior enforcement, slowing us down, [4:06] not deporting the dangerous people that we should [4:08] because of the reputation. [4:10] He's in part responsible for creating, [4:12] and he's also damaged our relationship [4:15] with some of our most important allies in Europe. [4:18] So no, he doesn't get a passing grade for me, [4:21] even judging on the kind of curve [4:22] that I made with some people among his advisors. [4:25] It seems to me that the White House chief of staff role [4:28] is one that requires the person [4:30] to be able to tell the president, [4:32] no, I have a difficult time, [4:34] and I've known Stephen Miller for a long time. [4:36] I've had a difficult time imagining him, [4:39] not only telling the president, no, [4:41] because he thinks it's best for the country, [4:42] but ever actually even disagreeing [4:44] with President Trump on anything. [4:46] What are you hearing from your colleagues on the Hill, [4:49] your fellow senators about this? [4:53] I'm hearing, you know, it's the book I've published. [4:57] I wrote about a series of WTF moments. [5:01] There's a lot of WTF texts that I'm receiving [5:03] from other people wondering what's going on here. [5:06] And a part of that's because I've staked myself [5:08] out of Stephen Miller years ago. [5:10] I mean, this is a guy who worked for Jeff Sessions [5:14] who ended up turning the other way [5:16] and riding the Trump wave when Jeff Sessions [5:18] did the right and honorable thing [5:19] to recuse himself from the Russia investigation. [5:22] He's a political opportunist. [5:23] And believe me when I tell you, [5:25] he's not going to be the curator at the Trump library [5:29] when it ultimately gets done. [5:30] He's going to try and serve to the next opportunity [5:33] and figure out who he could be a sycophant for in the future. [5:36] He's not right for the job. [5:38] He's the last person that we can put on the, [5:41] to have the face of the White House [5:43] when he's got to confront a leader Schumer [5:46] and a Speaker Jeffries. [5:47] It makes no sense on any level. [5:50] Dasha, I understand you have new reporting. [5:52] What have you learned? [5:55] Yeah, so we have a little bit of behind the scenes [5:57] from Politico about how Stephen Miller's wife, [6:02] Katie Miller, who of course worked [6:04] in the first Trump administration [6:06] and in the second Trump administration, [6:07] she worked with Elon Musk on the Doge effort. [6:10] She now has a podcast where she hosts high ranking officials [6:13] from the administration. [6:15] And she really helped lobby for her husband, [6:19] Stephen Miller, to get this job. [6:21] She, over the last couple of days, [6:23] has been making phone calls [6:25] to at least half a dozen people close to the president, [6:28] including Treasury Secretary Scott Bessett, [6:30] some folks in Vice President Vance's inner circle. [6:34] And even as far back as mid-October, [6:37] when the rumors were first started to swirl [6:39] about a potential Susie ouster, [6:42] she was fielding calls back then [6:44] when different names were being floated, [6:46] names like Bill Pulte, like Steve Wyckoff, [6:49] and others saying, listen, [6:52] if you think Stephen Miller is potentially better [6:55] than some of the alternatives, [6:57] you should make that known to the president. [7:00] And of course, Anderson, we reported in Playbook [7:03] back in mid-October [7:05] that the president had started [7:06] to make phone calls to his allies, [7:09] asking questions about Susie Wiles, [7:11] floating names of possible replacements. [7:13] At the time, the White House pushed back [7:15] pretty hard on those allegations, [7:17] but clearly this was the time [7:20] the fever pitch had really come [7:23] in the wake of the midterm election results. [7:25] Yeah. David, I mean, Susie Wiles [7:27] seemed to bring some order [7:28] to the chief of staff's jobs. [7:30] How do you think the West Wing [7:32] will work under Stephen Miller? [7:35] Well, look, it feels like he's there [7:37] to affirm the president's worst instincts. [7:41] You know, sometimes in these situations, [7:43] and we saw it a little bit in the Biden White House, [7:46] presidents shrink their circle [7:48] to those who will affirm their feelings [7:53] rather than trying to sway them [7:55] from their worst instincts. [7:57] But Anderson, this whole thing is so odd, [7:59] because when your house is on fire, [8:02] you usually reach for a hose, right? [8:04] You try and douse the flame. [8:06] Not a can of kerosene. [8:08] Stephen Miller is a can of kerosene. [8:10] He's the most divisive, polarizing figure [8:14] in the whole White House. [8:16] And to put him in this role [8:19] is such a misreading of what happened. [8:22] And he is an author or a co-author of what happened [8:25] after the war, after inflation. [8:28] You'd have to say that the way the immigration policy [8:31] has been implemented [8:32] was very instrumental in what happened on Tuesday. [8:35] We saw a huge shift among Hispanic voters [8:39] who had been part of Trump's coalition in 2024. [8:43] They almost broke even, which was unprecedented, [8:45] did better than any Republican has. [8:48] And now they went back to two to one [8:51] in favor of Democrats. [8:53] Why? [8:54] Some of it had to do with the economy. [8:56] A lot of it had to do with the implementation [8:59] of this immigration policy of Stephen Miller's. [9:03] So, you know, this is a very self-destructive decision, [9:09] it seems to me, on the part of the president. [9:10] But it doesn't bode well. [9:12] A few days ago, and Scott may address this, [9:14] he was talking about, well, the president may want [9:16] to make deals with Democrats. [9:18] This is not the chief of staff [9:20] who's going to broker that kind of a White House. [9:23] Yeah, Scott, I think, you know, [9:25] you'd been talking about kind of the, you know, [9:26] maybe a lot of times presidents, as lame ducks, [9:29] are thinking about their legacy, what they can get done. [9:32] What do you think this choice means? [9:37] Well, I think that they view Stephen [9:39] as somebody who covers a bunch of different vectors. [9:41] He knows the hill, he knows the legal piece, [9:43] he certainly knows how to deal with the media, [9:46] and he's obviously been the president's [9:47] most influential policy advisor. [9:49] So as they deal with all these vectors, [9:51] they view him as somebody who can be part of all of that. [9:54] You know, Axe was talking about [9:56] Stephen Miller's immigration policy. [9:58] I'll just offer a slight correction. [9:59] It's the president's immigration policy. [10:01] He's an immigration hog. [10:02] And Stephen Miller or Susie Wiles or anybody else [10:05] is there to implement, you know, [10:06] the president's wishes on that or any other policy. [10:10] I also think that they believe Stephen Miller [10:12] has been effective in other areas. [10:13] They view him as sort of the chief protector [10:16] of the law and order agenda. [10:18] They like what he's done with the fraud task force. [10:20] They like what he's done on the deregulatory agenda. [10:22] They like what he did to work with, frankly, [10:25] Democratic officials in DC and in Memphis, [10:27] where the Trump administration sent federal resources [10:30] to try to help work with the locals to clean up crime. [10:32] They think he was a big part of that. [10:34] So Trump views him as a good manager. [10:37] Trump says, I believe, thinks he's had [10:40] really good security in certain areas. [10:42] And of course, above all, he views him [10:44] as a loyal person who's been there from the beginning, [10:47] who knows his policy wishes better than just about anybody. [10:50] And of course, we know him as a fighter. [10:52] And there's no doubt they're gonna be in some fights [10:54] with Democrats and everybody else for the next two years. [10:57] David, I want to tell you something [10:58] that the Attorney General Todd Blanche said [11:00] a short time ago on Fox. [11:01] He was responding to incoming House Oversight [11:02] Chair Robert Garcia's comment today [11:04] that Stephen Miller should lawyer up. [11:08] You have Garcia saying, minutes after Stephen Miller [11:12] was promoted to be the Chief of Staff [11:14] to the President of the United States of America, [11:16] telling him to lawyer up. [11:18] Well, I'll tell you what, Stephen Miller has a lawyer. [11:21] It's me. [11:24] Is the Attorney General, I mean, [11:26] he's not the Chief of Staff's lawyer, [11:28] he's supposed to be the Chief Law Enforcement Officer [11:29] of the United States, traditionally independent [11:31] of the West Wing, I'm wondering what you make of that. [11:34] Well, you said traditionally independent [11:37] of the West Wing, but that is all gone now. [11:39] I mean, the Department of Justice is an organ [11:42] of the President's, of the White House, [11:44] but also it seems the President's political operations. [11:48] So I wasn't surprised by that. [11:51] Listen, you know, just on the point that Scott made, [11:54] yes, it's the President's immigration policy, [11:56] but Stephen Miller's the architect of it. [11:58] He was the guy who reportedly told the folks over at DHS [12:03] that he wanted a 3,000-a-day arrest quota, [12:07] very angrily demanding it. [12:09] And I think that's one of the things that led [12:11] to the intensification of their dragnets [12:16] that took in not just the worst of the worst, [12:19] but often American citizens and often innocent people. [12:23] This is what enraged folks. [12:25] So, you know, there are probably questions [12:29] that the Congress would like to ask him. [12:30] I don't know if he'll ever sit in front of them. [12:33] I think he has some immunity as a chief of staff, [12:35] but we'll see. [12:36] Dasha, if Miller or any other administration officials [12:39] want to defy congressional subpoenas, [12:40] all lawmakers can really do is make a contempt [12:43] of Congress referral to the DOJ, [12:45] which is run by Todd Blanche. [12:48] What does oversight actually look like [12:50] over the next two years? [12:52] I mean, that is why there's this debate [12:54] within the Democratic Party right now [12:56] and these incoming new lawmakers [12:58] about how much time to spend on this sort of thing [13:01] versus the focus and the mandate [13:03] that voters sent Democrats to Congress with, [13:07] which is to focus and prioritize issues [13:09] of affordability and cost of living. [13:11] Of course, the question of corruption [13:13] was also an important one for the campaign trail, [13:16] but yeah, it's gonna be really tough [13:18] to nail down somebody like Stephen Miller. [13:20] And look, to the point that Scott and Axe were making, [13:23] Stephen Miller is a security blanket for the president. [13:26] This is somebody that has been by his side [13:28] from the beginning. [13:29] He's intensely loyal. [13:30] And for those in the White House, [13:33] there was concern that it could be somebody [13:36] like Bill Pulte in that position [13:38] who has been sort of the devil on Trump's shoulder, [13:41] whispering all kinds of policy ideas [13:44] and potential kind of stoking the flame of Trump's in a way [13:50] that while Stephen Miller can do that too, [13:53] he's a known quantity for a lot of the people [13:56] in Trump's orbit. [13:57] Again, he's been with him for such a long time [14:00] and he is a policy mind. [14:02] Now, whether people agree with that policy or not, [14:04] Stephen Miller is the main policy architect, [14:07] not just of immigration, [14:08] but a whole swath of issues [14:10] that are important to President Trump. [14:12] And so whether he decides he wants to work [14:14] with Democrats or not, [14:16] Stephen Miller is the executor and the implementer [14:18] of a lot of what the president wants. [14:20] Scott, we mentioned the president told CBS that he expects [14:23] to make a few changes to his cabinet. [14:25] Do you still think Pete Hegseth may be one of those? [14:30] Well, the president was pretty firm in his defense [14:33] of Pete Hegseth today. [14:34] But of course, they're going to have to deal [14:35] with some political problems in the House next week [14:37] when this impeachment vote comes up. [14:39] And I don't know if he's going to survive that vote. [14:42] Not that that means he'll be out of office. [14:44] It will, of course, have to go over to the Senate, [14:45] which I think it will fail over there. [14:47] But still, it is a political headache next week. [14:50] But the president told CBS he expects to make some changes, [14:52] whether it's Hegseth or anybody else. [14:54] That's not terribly surprising. [14:55] One of my observations of working [14:59] or being around the White House [15:00] when I wrote this book about Trump's first 100 days [15:02] last year is the intensity of it. [15:05] Working for him is an around the clock thing. [15:08] And he is firmly in control of his own government. [15:11] It's kind of a hub and spoke. [15:12] The Oval Office is the hub. [15:13] And all these cabinet secretaries and everybody else who works there [15:17] are essentially on the clock 24-7. [15:19] So the intensity of it, combined with perhaps the president [15:22] has some different people he'd like to bring in. [15:24] It wouldn't shock me at all if he decided to put fresh eyes [15:27] on the War Department or anything else. [15:29] Although I do think it should be noted, [15:30] he gave Hegseth a pretty big vote of confidence today.