Michael Jackson, Palestine, and the story Western media erased — The Take

[0:00] Today, the origins of Michael Jackson, as told by his own estate. [0:10] I love my family. I just want to do my own thing. [0:15] I just have all these ideas in my head. I just got to get them out. [0:20] And do it, Michael. I'm not a little boy anymore. [0:24] The electrifying story a new film does tell, and the costs of the cutting room floor. [0:30] I'm Malika Bilal, and this is The Take. [0:39] Hey, quick note before we go on. [0:41] Whether you've seen the new film Michael or not, you've heard of Michael Jackson and his music. [0:48] So that means you probably have thoughts about his legacy, and we want to hear them. [0:53] Share your comments as you're watching this conversation. [0:55] And if you're listening to this episode on your podcast player, leave us a review. [1:00] We want to know what you think of the show. [1:05] My name is Sherry Zane. I'm a historian and also a writer. [1:10] And I'm speaking to you right now from a suburb of Chicago, which is Geneva, Illinois. [1:17] Sherry, welcome to The Take. [1:20] We are taking a step away from the hard news cycle today to talk about Michael, [1:26] which is the estate-sanctioned biopic about Michael Jackson. [1:31] I just have all these songs in my head. Just got to get them out. [1:38] There is a lot to say about this film, which I got a chance to see yesterday, and I really enjoyed it. [1:53] But let's start with the man himself. [1:56] I grew up with his music, as so many people listening and watching are going to relate to. [2:02] I remember watching the making of Thriller on Betamax videocassette, [2:08] which is a thing more than half of our audience have never even heard of. [2:12] I am dating myself here. [2:13] But there's this warm, fuzzy nostalgia that is there when you mention Michael Jackson. [2:20] And it's coupled with some incredible stats. [2:23] Michael Jackson has the best-selling album of all time. [2:27] He was the first artist to have five number one songs from one album. [2:32] And he wasn't just an American pop star. [2:35] He had global appeal, selling out stadiums from Los Angeles to Tokyo. [2:40] He was beloved in so many parts of the planet. [2:43] And a lot of people felt like we knew him. [2:46] And now we're getting this biopic produced in part by his family, who really did know him. [2:54] So about a month before the release of this film, you wrote a piece for Radical Books Collective with the headline, [3:01] Michael Jackson and the Erasure of Solidarity. [3:04] And in it, you say, as buzz around the forthcoming biopic Michael accelerates across social media, [3:10] I find myself wondering whether it will do his politics justice. [3:14] So let's start there. [3:16] Did it? [3:17] No. [3:18] It did not do his politics justice at all. [3:22] Because the entire Michael Jackson as a Black man, those stories, his lived experiences as a Black man in a racially segregated America is just like a footnote. [3:39] There are a couple instances where the film points to that. [3:42] But those experiences profoundly shaped the artist and his solidarity and his politics moving forward, which we can see in many of his songs. [3:52] Um, the other thing that I think is problematic is that the powerful Black civil rights movement is completely missing from the film. [4:03] So when the film opens, it opens with a lot of power. [4:07] Uh, wannabe startin' somethin', the music starts when the film opens, it's a great opening. [4:13] And then when you, the film moves to 1966 in Gary, Indiana, you see, it, it spans into like an overview of the city. [4:23] And then you see young Michael, he's looking out the window. [4:28] And this is the only time you see other people in Gary, Indiana, is when he is watching children play across the street. [4:36] And he wants to play with them, but he can't, he has to rehearse. [4:40] But that's the only time you see other people in this city. [4:45] So much of what takes place in Gary, Indiana is inside those, those walls where he lives. [4:52] Um, and so there's no mention of many of the things that Michael Jackson, even as a young child, even as a teenager, took part in. [5:05] And many of the ways in which he, so for instance, in 1967, Richard Hatcher becomes the first Black American to become mayor of a major city, Gary, Indiana, where Michael Jackson is from. [5:22] And he is a political force. [5:24] He marched with Martin Luther King Jr. [5:27] He organizes the Black Political Convention, bringing people like Coretta Scott King. [5:33] He does so much for the Black civil rights movement, and the Jacksons come back to Gary, Indiana, and perform a concert. [5:44] And there's a picture of young Michael and his brothers with the mayor giving the Black power salute. [5:52] It's not in the film. [5:53] Scholars like James Baldwin, Bell Hooks, Hilton Alice have all written about the ways in which the American media have had to grapple with Michael Jackson. [6:09] Or the way in which the media talks about Michael Jackson or writes about Michael Jackson really reveals their deep anxieties about Black men, Black sexuality, Black power. [6:26] And it refuses to grapple with that the country is built on this racial and political violence. [6:34] There are a few references in the film to hint at what you're talking about here. [6:43] A few lines that remind everyone that Michael was a Black man and the Jackson Five and the Jackson family were a Black family in a time when Black pop stars did not necessarily, [6:59] where they were not given the crossover treatment for mass audiences. [7:06] Michael made that happen for so many. [7:08] So walk us through what you think the film did right and what it did wrong in telling that part of the story. [7:18] I think the film does well in highlighting certain points in Michael Jackson's career. [7:24] I think it's important to show the relationships that Michael had with, you know, Barry Gordy and Quincy Jones. [7:32] What I'm suggesting is, and certainly how he, Michael Jackson, learned the system. [7:40] He was also, you know, he studied Black civil rights leaders. [7:45] He had over 21 books just on the Black civil rights movement alone. [7:50] He studied Martin Luther King Jr. [7:52] He studied Malcolm X on purpose, right? [7:55] And so he understands the world that he's living in and he figures out what he needs to do to become successful. [8:05] One of the things that's missing from the film is that Motown, when they sign with Motown, I guess what I, the only thing I can think of, like, in terms of a descriptor is it becomes a finishing school, right? [8:18] So Barry Gordy believes that, you know, he needs to teach young artists how to dress, how to speak in front of the press, you know, things that will make them more palatable because the more palatable you are to a universal audience, the more money you're going to make. [8:39] Michael Jackson understood this, right? [8:41] Michael Jackson wrote about this in his Moonwalk autobiography. [8:46] He said there was a time when the Jacksons were being interviewed. [8:51] And at the end of the interview, the journalist asks them, what do you think about Black power? [8:59] And the Motown handler steps in and says, uh-uh, they don't think about politics. [9:06] They're a commercial product. [9:07] And this is Michael Jackson describing this in Moonwalk, his autobiography. [9:12] And he says, and I'm trying to paraphrase what his exact quote was in the book, but he says, I thought it was weird, but we winked and gave the power salute to the journalist as we walked away. [9:28] And I think he really loved that. [9:31] There's one other scene, um, that you write about in your review of this film. [9:37] And it's a scene involving MTV, um, which played such a big role in people's lives in the U.S. in the 90s, the 80s. [9:47] Not so much today, but walk us through that scene and what it tells you about what the film does say about Michael's politics. [9:54] Okay, so in the scene, and what I found is that it's pretty accurate, um, how this unfolded. [10:04] But, so in the scene, Michael Jackson is with his lawyer slash manager, John Branca, and they are in Walter Yetnikoff, the president of CBS Records. [10:17] They're in his office, and Walter is fawning all over Michael, saying how happy CBS is, um, with the success of the Thriller album. [10:28] And Michael says, I need you to do me a favor. [10:33] And he asked Branca to say what it is, right? [10:38] And so he says, we want you to get Michael's videos on MTV. [10:44] And Walter says, aye, aye, aye, that's not possible. [10:49] And he says, I don't know why, uh, MTV doesn't play Black artists. [10:55] Maybe they don't want to scare all the white kids in the suburbs. [11:00] And so then, uh, Michael says, I won't be forced to the back of the bus by anyone. [11:07] Again, another nod to the civil rights, Black civil rights movement, right? [11:12] And so Walter says, I've tried, I've tried. [11:16] And Michael says, try harder. [11:18] So then he, um, gets the founder and president of MTV on the phone. [11:27] And he literally threatens them and says, look, if you don't get Billie Jean on a rotation within the next 10 minutes, we're going to pull all of our artists. [11:38] Cindy Lauper, Billy Joel, you know, he goes through the whole gamut and, uh, he hangs up the phone. [11:45] And then lo and behold, you know, Billie Jean starts playing because, you know, MTV also is in financial crisis. [11:53] In fact, after they start playing, um, Michael Jackson's videos, I believe it's 1984 is the first time that MTV is making a huge profit. [12:06] So you literally, you literally have a Black artist saving the financial ruin of MTV who refused to play Black artists until Michael Jackson kicks open that door. [12:22] Which really represents so much about what the civil rights struggle really did, um, for Americans. [12:28] Um, okay, so, Sherry, that is a nod to his Black consciousness and his politics when it comes to his identity. [12:37] There are also more global-facing, um, viewpoints that he may have had that don't make it to the film. [12:44] And so what I'm referencing in particular is something, um, that hit social media not too long ago. [12:51] It was all over my Instagram feed. [12:53] I imagine all over yours, and it had to do with Palestine. [12:58] What is Michael Jackson's connection to Palestine? [13:01] So, I'm totally with you. [13:05] I was just, I found this by scrolling on Instagram. [13:10] And it was a song that Michael Jackson wrote for Palestine called Palestine Don't Cry in 1993. [13:17] And he wrote it after he was coming back from concerts in Tel Aviv. [13:23] So, he writes the song, the lyrics, on British Airways Concord stationery, maybe at 35,000 feet, right? [13:32] And the song, those lyrics in 2010 are at Julian's auction, and they sell for $10,000. [13:40] Now, the song is never recorded, and I'm not sure why. [13:48] At first, it was bothering me, you know, because I was like, why didn't he record this song? [13:53] I got fixated on that question. [13:55] I said, I have to stop thinking about why they weren't recorded, and what is missing? [14:01] What, what else is missing in terms of Michael Jackson's solidarity, let's say, in the Middle East? [14:09] Did he perform there? [14:11] So, I start doing the research. [14:13] And so, what I found is that he had a relationship with the Middle East. [14:19] He had solidarity there. [14:21] He went on Arab TV to dispel rumors that he didn't like Arabs. [14:27] There's a young, you know, Arab girl who asked him the question. [14:31] It's true that you don't like Arabs? [14:34] Is it true that I was? [14:36] You don't like Arabs? [14:38] No, that's not true at all. [14:39] I love Arabs. [14:41] I love all people of the world. [14:43] That's a good example how people make up stories that aren't true. [14:47] He wanted to perform a concert in Casablanca. [14:51] He went there to set everything up, but it doesn't happen. [14:55] He does perform in Tunis, happens, and it's the only concert in an Arabic-speaking country. [15:06] After the allegations, he, he moves to Bahrain and Dubai. [15:14] Why? [15:15] Made me wonder, why? [15:17] Why does he go there? [15:19] It's where he feels safe, right? [15:21] It's where he feels that Western media is not following his every move. [15:26] And it says something about why, you know, these stories about his time in the Middle East [15:32] or the connections that he has are just footnotes somewhere, right? [15:38] Why isn't this part of a larger story? [15:41] Why is this being dismissed? [15:45] And so, as you know, right, like the song, Palestine Don't Cry, once that hit social media, [15:53] that spread like wildfire, right? [15:57] Right. [15:57] There are versions where you can listen to it with Michael's voice. [16:02] And I put that in air quotes because, of course, that's AI. [16:04] He did not, as far as we know, record the song. [16:08] So we only have the lyrics. [16:09] But if you go on social media and search that song name, you will come up with songs that [16:14] sound like they're sung by him. [16:15] I often think, like, what if Michael Jackson were still alive, what would he say? [16:44] Like, at first I was like, what would he say? [16:47] What would he? [16:48] And I think that's the wrong question. [16:50] It's what would he do? [16:51] And we all know that he would do something. [16:55] As I said, he was a very intelligent, educated, political person who knew exactly how the world [17:08] functioned. [17:08] So, Sherry, then now I want to square all of that, the consciousness and the political [17:18] stances, with something else that some people will say is erased from the film. [17:24] Because one major point of contention for many people is that the story ends in 1988, which [17:32] feels convenient because that is before the 1993 child sex abuse lawsuit against Michael [17:39] Jackson. [17:40] It's before a five months long trial in 2005 in which a jury found Michael not guilty on [17:47] charges that included child molestation. [17:49] And it's well before the 2019 HBO documentary Leaving Neverland, which featured two men's [17:57] accusations against Michael of abuse when they were children. [18:01] So, what do you make of what so many see as a glaring omission? [18:07] I think the problem is that when that becomes the only question, it silences all other questions [18:16] about Michael Jackson. [18:17] So, and I think that for people worldwide, because Michael Jackson's art affected them, [18:29] shaped their memories of childhood, it then becomes a question of, well, all of your childhood [18:36] memories about Michael Jackson or all of the times when his music was attached to a joyous [18:43] moment for you are built on something rotten. [18:49] And I think it's a shutdown, right? [18:55] It's a silencing. [18:57] And I think that's strategic. [18:59] I think it's possible, it's entirely possible for us to hold simultaneous truths about Michael [19:05] Jackson. [19:06] The allegations are serious. [19:09] They're real. [19:11] They're contested. [19:13] Michael Jackson's politics are documented. [19:16] They're real. [19:17] And they're often erased. [19:21] Michael Jackson was the greatest performer ever. [19:26] His music brings joy to people. [19:29] That's also real. [19:30] People are still using his music as a driving force behind their own politics. [19:38] The Black Lives Matter movement used They Don't Care About Us as an anthem. [19:44] And so these things are all real, and I think that we should be able to discuss those things. [19:53] They shouldn't be canceling out one another, I guess is what I'm saying. [19:57] And so those allegations, I believe, or the constant, not the allegations themselves, the [20:03] questions surrounding, well, what about the allegations? [20:07] What about the allegations? [20:08] It's a way to silence any other conversation and feel strategic, because what are they really [20:16] afraid of? [20:17] You know, I'm writing a book called Who's Afraid of Michael Jackson? [20:21] And the whole reason that I'm writing this book is for this reason. [20:26] It's like there's an obsession with this question that's meant to silence everything else that [20:33] we can hold. [20:34] And we can hold all of these things at once, if that makes sense. [20:38] Yeah, of course it makes sense that we can hold the fact that we might love his music [20:42] and that these allegations are real and serious and contested, like you said. [20:47] And that said, there are still going to be people who hear what you say and think that [20:52] sounds like apologia. [20:53] That sounds like you want us to brush it under the rug. [20:57] And this film kind of allows us to do that by not addressing it. [21:02] But it was reported in the entertainment news magazine Variety that the filmmakers were [21:07] going to start with the allegations at the very top of the film, which might have addressed [21:12] some of what people are feeling right now. [21:16] But the estate of Michael Jackson learned that there was a clause in one of the lawsuits [21:24] of one of the people who brought suit against Michael Jackson that they could not be named, [21:30] they could not be depicted in any future movie. [21:32] Yes, that's absolutely correct. [21:35] I believe that the idea was that they were going to address the allegations. [21:44] And because of these non-disclosure agreements, that didn't make it possible. [21:51] And so, you know, it's not surprising that the MJ estate and intellectual property issues [21:58] are all non-disclosure agreements. [22:00] Litigation is shaping the way in which this film is given to us. [22:06] Well, Sherry, finally, I'm in my seat in the theater. [22:09] I was not the only person dancing along to all of the hits that I remember so vividly. [22:16] The theater had a lot of cheering, had some applause, had people singing along and waving [22:22] their hands. [22:22] So I know I'm not alone in feeling like this film ignited a nostalgia for something, [22:29] but it also personally allowed me not to have to feel the discomfort of grappling with [22:35] everything that came after because of where it ended. [22:38] So I want us to end with what you want people to take away from the story of Michael Jackson, [22:45] who's no longer here with us, but his legacy is. [22:47] I think that I want what I want people to think about is his solidarity, the way he moved [22:56] throughout the world, but also what his music meant to so many people worldwide, not just [23:03] in the United States. [23:05] The Global South, people in the Global South are turning out in record numbers to see the [23:09] film. [23:10] They understand Michael Jackson in a completely different context than Americans might understand [23:17] Michael Jackson or the history of the Jackson family. [23:20] And so we go to the movies, we enjoy the film, it's amazing, but that's not necessarily [23:29] truth. [23:30] That's not fact. [23:31] And the film stops in 1988 before the allegations become real. [23:35] It does say at the end of the film, his story continues. [23:39] And they've said that there's going to be a second part. [23:42] So I guess we'll have to wait and see what becomes the framing, right, of that second part. [23:50] And again, when we see the second part of the film, what's managed, what's erased, what becomes [24:00] the story? [24:01] Because unfortunately, a lot of people go to the movies and then feel educated by certain [24:07] topics and it doesn't really portray the truth or multiple perspectives of a specific history. [24:16] Well, Sherry, we're going to end where the film ends with that tease that the story continues and we will [24:22] be watching along. [24:23] Thank you so much for your writing and for this conversation. [24:26] Thank you so much.