McCabe & Comey react: What FBI Director Patel’s testimony revealed

[0:00] We're following a contentious hearing on The Hill where FBI Director Cash Patel is appearing before the Senate Appropriations Committee. [0:07] And just moments ago, there was a shouting match that broke out when Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen brought up recent allegations against Patel regarding excessive drinking. [0:18] Unlike your baseless reports, the only person that was slinging margaritas in El Salvador on the taxpayer dollar with a convicted gangbanging rapist was you. [0:27] The only person that ran up a $7,000 bar tab in Washington, D.C. at the lobby bar was you. [0:33] So the only individual in this room that has been drinking on taxpayer dime during the day is you. [0:40] Director Patel, come on. These are serious allegations that were made against you. [0:45] The allegations are false. You drinking margaritas with a gangbanger is true and on video. [0:50] You running a $7,000 bar tab at the lobby bar has been filed by your own office. [0:56] To drink during the day. That's you. [0:59] This is the ultimate example of hypocrisy. [1:02] I will not be tarnished by baseless allegations or fraudulent statements from the media. [1:06] The fact that you mention that indicates you don't know what you are talking about. [1:13] Senator Van Hollen went on to ask Patel whether he'd submit to an alcohol use disorder identification test. [1:20] Are you willing to take the test that it's called the audit test that members of our active duty military and others take to determine whether they have a drinking problem? [1:35] I'll take any test you're willing to take. [1:36] I will take it, Director Patel. I'll take it. You ready to take it? [1:40] Let's go. [1:41] Yes or no? [1:42] Let's go. Side by side. [1:43] I'll take it. [1:44] Let's bring in former FBI Director Andy McCabe. [1:49] What did you think of that moment there, Andy? [1:52] I mean, it's just incredibly dispiriting. [1:58] You know, anytime the director of the FBI is dueling and, you know, in the midst of a shouting match with, you know, members on the Hill defending himself against allegations of excessive alcoholism or excessive drinking, it's just the last thing that the FBI needs. [2:20] This is such a time, you know, a horrible distraction from the great work of the men and women who protect this country every day. [2:30] And, of course, I think, you know, what have we learned from this exchange so far? [2:35] Have we uncovered some great nugget of truth in terms of the FBI's budget or the firing of agents who worked cases that are now politically disfavored, the firing of the agents and analysts who are the Iran experts? [2:48] No, I don't. I don't think we've learned anything about that. [2:52] We've just had to be spectators to this inane back and forth. [2:57] Kash Patel was actually on Capitol Hill today, and he testified that, quote, morale has never been better at the FBI. [3:05] Do you think that's true? [3:07] That's great news. [3:08] Released the anonymous climate surveys where we anonymously survey every employee, all 38,000. [3:15] And let's check that. [3:16] Do you doubt his testimony? [3:18] I doubt it. [3:19] You fire someone like Brian Driscoll and hundreds of others, an agent whose wife is dying of cancer, you fire those people for no reason at all? [3:28] Yeah, don't give me some nonsense about how high morale is. [3:32] In that testimony today, he was asked about that report from The Atlantic recently that was citing FBI personnel that they say were alarmed by his erratic behavior and excessive drinking. [3:43] He denies that. [3:45] He's suing The Atlantic for defamation. [3:46] But a Democratic senator today questioned him about it, and this was his response. [3:53] Is it your testimony that those allegations are categorically false? [3:58] Unequivocally categorically false. [4:00] So there have been no occasions during your tenure when FBI personnel were unable to promptly reach you? [4:06] Absolutely not. [4:06] You can ask my entire workforce. [4:08] They hear from me at every single hour of the day, as do these great gentlemen here, as do the men and women of the interagency and state and local law enforcement in the White House. [4:16] And so there have been no occasions when your security detail had difficulty waking or locating you. [4:20] Is that right? [4:21] Nope, it's a total farce. [4:23] I don't even know where you get this stuff, but it doesn't make it credible because you say so. [4:26] I'm not saying it, Director Patel. [4:29] It's been written and documented. [4:31] You are literally saying it. [4:32] What did you make of that report and his denials there? [4:39] Yeah, I don't know how to evaluate his denials. [4:41] I don't know whether the report's true, but if it's true, it's very concerning. [4:44] When you're the director of the FBI, you represent something, which is obviously 38,000 people, but also an idea. [4:51] A brand probably is too vernacular a word. [4:55] You represent something that is important. [4:57] And so you should dress a certain way, stand a certain way, conduct yourself in a certain way. [5:02] And if the allegations in the report are accurate, and I don't know whether they are, that is inconsistent with the obligation to represent the institution. [5:10] The FBI director is a 10-year term. [5:13] It's supposed to be. [5:14] Obviously, you were ousted of yours. [5:17] Do you think Cash-Fattel will ultimately serve those full 10 years as FBI director? [5:24] We'll see. [5:25] I'm optimistic there will be a different presidential administration in two and a half years. [5:29] And so we'll see what their evaluation is of the work of the current director. [5:32] Do you think it would be fair if it was, I mean, we don't know, but if it's a Democratic president and they want to oust him? [5:39] Because people say it's supposed to be a non-political job, it's supposed to be a 10-year term. [5:42] Yeah, I certainly wouldn't want to see someone fired simply because he was appointed by a president of a different party. [5:47] I'm someone who had given money to Republican candidates who ran against Barack Obama. [5:51] He chose me because he said, I want an apolitical, independent leader of the FBI. [5:56] So if in two and a half years, Cash-Fattel fits that bill, it would be great for the next president to keep him. [6:01] They'll just have to do their own evaluation. [6:03] You mentioned Pam Bondi and her ouster at the Justice Department. [6:08] I mean, there are reports that Cash-Fattel could be fired. [6:11] If he were to be fired, what would your advice to him be? [6:17] I don't have any advice for him. [6:19] So I'm sure that there are opportunities in Trump world that I'm not aware of. [6:24] Your thriller that's out today, Red Verdict, which people should read, it's a continuation of your previous fiction novels that you've written. [6:32] I mean, it talks about Russians spying, allegations. [6:36] There's a whole court case in that. [6:37] But there's a part in it that also talks about polygraphs. [6:40] And one of your characters is saying, you know, one of those DOJ lawyers I take, you know, no one ought to be doing it. [6:46] The U.S. government has never caught a spy with a poly, but they have ruined a lot of careers. [6:51] I mean, Cash-Fattel was literally asked about polygraphs today and using them and was saying that it's defending it on the reports of it being used to identify leakers in the agency. [7:02] What do you make of that? [7:03] In my experience, the polygraph is most useful because people think it detects lies. [7:09] And so it changes behavior because people worry about it. [7:12] There's a reason, though, it's not admissible in any court in the United States. [7:16] It's just not sufficiently reliable to be used in that setting. [7:19] And so it's a tool, one, you ought to not put too much weight on. [7:23] You said you don't have any advice for Cash-Fattel if he gets fired. [7:26] What about someone who's working inside the FBI, the Justice Department, right now in this environment that we've talked about? [7:34] Know who you are. [7:36] Know the values you've sworn to uphold. [7:39] Work your best to make sure your work is consistent with those values. [7:43] And if you can't get it to that place, be prepared to leave or to sacrifice your career. [7:47] And that's the situation that the people at the FBI and the Justice Department are in. [7:51] That's why thousands have left. [7:52] They couldn't get to that place. [7:54] But I hope good people will try to stay and do things the right way. [7:59] As someone who has served in law enforcement, served as the FBI director, did you ever think that you would not only be indicted once, but be indicted twice in your life? [8:09] No. [8:09] And if you'd put it in a novel, your editor would strike it out. [8:12] But that's the world in which we live. [8:14] There's all kinds of things happening in America. [8:16] I never imagined what happened in my lifetime. [8:19] I remain very, very optimistic about this country, but it's going to be a hard two and a half years. [8:24] Some people might ask, might be watching and say, you know, how are you optimistic? [8:29] Or how do you kind of laugh a little bit at this notion of this indictment? [8:34] A number of reasons. [8:35] First, I believe in the leg of our constitutional stool that the federal judiciary represents. [8:40] They've proven themselves over the last eight years to be committed to doing things in the right way. [8:45] Whether you agree with decisions or not, they have upheld the rule of law. [8:49] I know the people who are still in those organizations trying to hold on and those who have left and will flow back when it changes. [8:56] And I also know how screwed up we've been as a country so many times in our past. [9:00] And we're okay in the long run because we have a set of values that these characters can't do away with. [9:06] Former FBI Director James Comey, thank you for joining us here tonight. [9:09] Great to be with you.