Sara Duterte Impeachment Trial Day 10 — Philippine Senate Hearing LIVE

[0:00] that would be correct by the way while we're waiting for the witness um attorney nervosa if [0:11] you recall yesterday um attorney legutan in response to a question by a senator judge um [0:21] gave a discussion a federation if you will um but um yesterday i said we will be giving [0:30] council the same opportunity i cleared it earlier with senator pk and who wanted the um statements [0:37] um deleted from the record however since this is a televised proceeding nakita na eh napakinggan [0:46] eh so i erase ko man sa record eh bali wala na lang the fairest thing to do is to give you an [0:52] opportunity as well um attorney legutan spent five minutes and 18 seconds delivering his discussion [1:00] the court will give you the same time after your cross-examination with a warning with a warning and [1:07] reminder from the presiding officer that the presiding officer will not tolerate such [1:12] federations again by either party um even if it is in response to um a question of a senator judge and [1:20] the presiding officer will try to remind us best we can senator judges um to let the witnesses present [1:28] the evidence of both parties instead of the councils presenting both facts and law through their [1:34] statements senator judge i'd like to thank the presiding officer for um for prudence for wisdom in trying [1:47] to resolve this issue and i do understand that we are 24 people um all elected by the people all [1:56] wanting justice all wanting a fair trial having said that uh prudence dictates that um we stop ourselves [2:05] from asking certain questions that can prejudice the whole trial whether or not our intention is to do [2:15] so so the problem is well stated by the presiding officer that if we simply delete from the record [2:23] eh mapapanood nyo na rin naman sa youtube yung magandang discussion ng prosecution so on one sense it is [2:32] fair to give the defense a chance to answer but on another sense it's unfair why because whoever phrases the [2:42] question lamang na eh kasi yung question nga is why is this an impeachable offense so for example if i was the [2:50] one who stood up yesterday and i asked the prosecution why is this a political vendetta and why is the house not [3:00] investigating the flood control instead of investigating uh the vice president that would be unfair that [3:08] would be unfair to the house that would be unfair to everyone so simply giving the prosecution the chance [3:13] to answer that question i asked would be unfair to everyone so i i do not know the solution i accept the [3:21] solution of the uh presiding officer now let's not tolerate any more questions like that i agree with [3:27] senator p i don't like being called out uh but that's the role of the presiding officer and the [3:33] senate president no so sana yun lang no na uh one when we ask the questions we'll make sure it doesn't [3:42] prejudice the whole trial whatever we say here may ma-accused na lawyering for the prosecution or [3:47] defense okay lang yun okay lang yun sa prayer nga kahapon di ba basta justice bahala na magali okay but my [3:54] last point mr president let's give the defense a little latitude in not only answering that question but what [3:59] you want to say because now the question is unfair so if you're simply going to answer that question [4:04] then it won't solve the problem na nakapagsalita sila five minutes kayo nakapagsalita so we'll [4:10] consider personally i'll consider the the very eloquent answer yesterday as a sort of a closing so same [4:18] same personally young mr presiding officer give the latitude to the defense the parang closing then [4:25] whatever because they have affirmative defenses and they did not push us to hear that they [4:30] went straight to trial so dun din sa mga nagsasabi na delay sa dami ng objection that's unfair no [4:37] let's give everyone uh latitude here the same thing i think uh may konting ano sa internet na photocopies [4:45] are not uh original and the council was simply citing tamala a supreme court decision no and the rules of [4:53] court and the rules of court so i'm just saying it's an emotional issue so all of us will be [4:58] uh hit badgered whatever i think trabaho naman nung witness natin bantayan yung internet so as long as [5:05] hindi foul in the threat but having said that mr president uh let's give each other leeway but only to [5:12] the point that the trial uh will not uh disintegrate the back into a political fiasco or circus thank [5:21] you mr president the remarks of senator judge alan kayetano are noted senator judge pia kayetana thank you [5:31] mr president this will be brief first of all i'd just like to confirm that um i acknowledge this the what the [5:38] presiding officer said that i agreed um basically i'm withdrawing no my my motion um in the interest [5:46] of fairness because the delivery of justice is about fairness so kung nakapagsalita nga ang prosecution [5:54] with their closing statement ebi pwede rin dapat mag closing statement ang defense no so i i am amenable to [6:01] that but very very very briefly um mr president i'd like to put on record why are we being strict [6:09] about the rules why do i have to bother standing up well because nothing in this world will run [6:19] well without the rules now my colleagues the senate is a basketball loving senate dami dito hiling mag [6:26] basketball kung ako volleyball player colleagues go basketball i'll use basketball as an example will you [6:32] have a we have a decent basketball game if there's no rules no there's rules that's why we stand up [6:38] and then sometimes there are also opportunities to question the rules that's also fine but that's [6:42] why we have to stand up and call the attention of the presiding officer when we feel that the rules are [6:48] being violated and we will continue to do so when we believe it is necessary in the interest of justice [6:54] thank you mr president remarks of the lady are noted since we are discussing um housekeeping chores [7:01] and matters let the presiding officer continue with the same um the presiding officer will call for a [7:07] break midway through in order to afford the parties 15 minutes to um relax go over their notes and do [7:15] their thing in regard to um senator judges or um councils for the uh parties who are not on deck you're free to [7:27] answer the call of nature in the least disruptive manner possible and return afterwards um outside of [7:35] the 15 minutes that we will be doing halfway through the um proceedings and finally um a request has been um [7:44] brought to um the presiding officer to request as well um the president the senator judges to um [7:52] um lower the tone of conversational voices because um i think um where you're seated is an echo [7:59] chamber um naririnig um sa iba't ibang sulok ng plenaryong ito yung mga sinasabi din [8:05] nyo at um hindi din nakakapag-concentrate yung ilan sa ating mga kasama na nakaupo sa paligiran [8:12] ninyo um just a reminder and for one last reminder before i recognize counsel for the respondent mr [8:18] calilong you will be testifying once again and will be undergoing cross-examination under the same [8:22] oath yes that you took yesterday do you understand that yes your honor thank you counsel for respondent [8:28] attorney nervosa if you're ready you may proceed with your cross-examination your honor may i be [8:37] allowed to to approach a witness you may do so thank you good afternoon mr calilong doctor [8:50] during your direct examination you testified that you were trained on photo and video authentication [8:57] yes sir you said that you were trained for two weeks a specific proposal sir my questions are [9:04] answerable by yes or no can you please uh constrain yourself to these questions unless i tell you okay [9:11] objection to that your honor please uh and you got this training from the four council correspondent um [9:18] proceeds counsel for the prosecutor to let the presiding officer recognize the first you're so [9:24] recognized sir what is your objection thank you so much in as much as i would like to accommodate the [9:29] defense that in asking the question that the witness is to be limited to a yes or no question your [9:36] honor please unfortunately your honor please that's not sanctioned in the rules there is nothing in our [9:43] rules that would allow a defense to constrain a witness even on cross-examination to answer the [9:50] questions by a yes or no answer it's not in the rules so you are at least we cannot constrain a witness [9:56] to answering either yes or no the witness should be able to qualify the usual answer by the defense is [10:02] that it could be handled by the prosecution on redirect but that is not the case order please so long as [10:11] there is nothing in the rules that would allow the defense to constrain the witness to answer yes or no [10:18] the prosecution will vehemently object to that the presiding officer the presiding officer overrules [10:26] the objection the pros the council for prosecutors can make a continuing objection regarding this matter [10:32] but it is the position of the presiding officer that the witness is seasoned enough according to [10:37] his testimony yesterday has attended over if i recall correctly 30 hearings already so he would know [10:43] how to um respond and to explain if the need would arise and it's up for council for the respondent [10:49] if at all to strike out whatever um answers that are not responsive to his question council for [10:54] responding may proceed thank you we would abide your honor we would abide thank you council for the [10:58] prosecutors and you testified that you got this training from max core interventions yes sir and you [11:07] said that the training you got from max core interventions was in digital forensics yes sir i have with [11:14] me in articles of partnership of max core interventions co you see that it states that it is the articles of [11:22] partnership of max core interventions co whether the videos presented yesterday are ai generated or authentic [11:34] so are you experienced enough analyzing whether a video is ai generated or authentic yes your honor what [11:42] makes you say that uh based on my experience your honor and the video itself it's a two hours long normally [11:49] an ai generated video will only last a short second sir so the video was that was presented yesterday [11:57] um where we saw the vp was uh um saying something or talking to that effect did you do something or what kind of [12:08] system uh did you observe or follow uh did you observe or follow to ensure whether that video was ai generated [12:16] or authentic based on personal observation sir personal observation yes your honor okay a few more questions [12:24] therefore um will you be able to say that the video presented yesterday were ai generated authentic the video [12:36] presented presented presented today is what it is being seen on the facebook sir okay so based on your [12:44] affidavit you mentioned that the nba subpoenaed some members of the media who are participants of the [12:51] online press con on november 23 2024 right yes your honor and subsequently you said that you questioned and [12:59] investigated these persons regarding the conduct of that press con so based on what you gathered from your [13:06] investigation so i have a few questions right yes your honor who set up the press conference uh based on [13:12] our interview sir it is the office of the vice president sir so it wasn't sport of the moment press con [13:21] uh i i can't confirm sir but it's the response of the uh media personnel that we interviewed okay who invited [13:30] the participants if my memory serves me right it's jc kainhin sir okay who is jc uh staff of the office of [13:42] the vice president sir okay who are the participants and how many participants were there if you can [13:49] remember as far as i remember it's at least 40 40. okay were there mainstream media or anybody from the [13:59] broadsheets at that time there are sir there were yes sir do you know how many uh give or take we have [14:08] the one that we the one that we have issued subpoena sir uh at least six sir six okay what was the reach [14:16] of the video on that very day like how many views on that very day and then a few days later were you able [14:25] to observe that uh i can't remember sir you can't remember okay how did it spread [14:37] or how did it spread in socmed the videos that was presented yesterday as far as you know when you did [14:45] an investigation it became trending sir it became trending and my last question is um [14:53] because in i establish dito is uh inciting to this to sedition on top of yung sa sinasabing grave threat [15:03] ano yung mga comments na napansin mo doon sa video can you give us an example one of the comments uh [15:12] because on the video november 23 there were mentioned about people power uh when asked a [15:18] question by princess maui and the vice president respond the agreed and the ang laban ay wala sa edsa [15:30] nasa malacanang and there are responses from the comments but it's not documented that is [15:37] agreeing sir no further question mr presiding officer thank you senator judge tulfo senator judge [15:44] um aquino thereafter senator judge pangilinan senator judge um aquino has um two minutes you may proceed sir [15:51] maraming salamat mr presiding officer uh mr kalilong kanina may nabanggit na dalawang [15:58] affidavit isang january at isang february yung january ay binalik sa inyo tama po ba yes your honor [16:07] and there were seven grounds why it was returned to you is that correct uh seven points may can you [16:14] narrate what are these seven points that were that you addressed is that the correct term that you [16:19] addressed uh in the second affidavit yes your honor can you name them please may i have the uh [16:25] certificate sir um certification was it counsel for the respondent may i approve may yes you may [16:35] approach and show him the document being alluded to by senator judge aquino note one there is no [16:48] affidavit of the person who recorded the video entitled bp november 23 press con at batasan through [16:56] open broadcast super studio and in turn stored in the dvd number two the press briefing conducted on [17:05] october 18 24 was not recorded and or stored in dvd and there was no tsn of the said briefing and the [17:13] necessary affidavit of the person taking the tsn number three annex i and k dvd with markings nbi ccn [17:21] dash c dash c dash 24 dash 124 36 dash 2 and nbi dash ccn dash c dash 24 dash 124 36 dash 2 were not [17:34] accompanied by an affidavit of the recorder in the tsn number four annex l did not indicate who made the tsn [17:44] there was also no affidavit of the person who made the tsn number five the affidavit of what patricia [17:51] morales mentioned that she stored the footage in the usb and submitted to the nbi however the usb [17:58] there was no usb attached to the complaint only dvd was attached there was no detail regarding the [18:02] content of this dvd number six only the minutes of meeting with several personalities and representative [18:10] from various media outfits were submitted although the minutes were signed there was no individual [18:16] affidavit executed regarding to the contents of the said minutes number seven one of the elements [18:22] of crime of brave threat is that the offender threatens another with the infliction upon the [18:28] latter's person honor and property or upon that of the latter's family or if the wrong amounting into a [18:36] crime in the instant complaint only the nbi executed an affidavit and there was no participation on the [18:43] part of the offended party as it appears in the nbi is not the offended party of the crime of grave [18:50] threat okay so nakuha mo yung nagsubmit kayo yan yung binalik sa inyo and then you did your best to [18:57] correct all those items is that correct yes your honor okay the first six are technical no just [19:03] uh just to assist the court in evaluating the relevance and weight of uh the government security [19:11] response in uh determining whether uh the respondent conduct uh uh the respondents conduct constitutes an [19:21] impeachable uh offense may may we know from the witness at uh could the witness explain yung threats [19:29] po ba how threats against the president are ordinarily assessed by the government kasi [19:36] dito yung lumalabas yung pag weigh natin whether or not meron bang bigat yung threat o ito'y ordinary [19:47] yung threat na nangyayari sa pang araw-araw nating buhay specifically uh mr witness what factors are [19:54] taken into account in evaluating a reported threat and in determining appropriate measures uh i can't [20:05] answer on the part of the nsc or tn no because i'm not part of the institution in your ano po in your [20:12] capacity as an in my capacity uh what of the consideration if it's a uh active threat if it's the [20:19] uh one giving the threat is capable of doing so meaning if someone ranking officials and if you [20:28] say an official capability or power over uh to implement those such threat uh it is considered sir [20:37] example a mayor perhaps would you say a high-ranking official a congressman or yung basihan po ng [20:45] kanyang threat kunyari ang threat ko dadalhin kita doon sa buwan wala naman akong space shuttle [20:51] so wala din pong bearing yun is is that the correct assumption not only sir but also how it was [20:59] delivered sir uh like what was mentioned in the that i mentioned previously it was mentioned that no joke [21:07] no joke it's a serious so that is the uh one of the considerations that's the consideration thank you very [21:14] much and lastly uh uh mr witness you made mention uh submit most uh doj no january 30 is it the same [21:22] affidavit that you submitted to the hor the one that submitted to the hor is the affidavit dated february [21:31] so that's the latest yes sir the one that complied with the requirements of the doj thank you very [21:36] much for that clarification thank you mr president thank you senator villanueva before i recognize [21:41] senate president gachalian and thereafter senator erwin tulfo may remind attorney nervasa that your [21:48] five minutes you will be given your five minutes after the questions of the senator judges and before [21:54] we recognize um the council for the prosecutor for his um redirect senate president um you have two [22:02] minutes thank you thank you mr president i believe that we would do it after recross so i heard cross [22:09] sorry yes your honor thank you better for us yes thank you mr presiding officer i just have a few [22:16] questions clarificatory questions uh narinig ko ko kanina ginong testigo na nasabi nyo may 40 media [22:23] personalities doon sa press con tama po ba yes your honor pero ang inyong inimbitahan [22:29] eh anim lang yes your honor bakit anim lang uh the 40 we see the number of person participants but the [22:37] number of person who asked the vice president during that time it's limited and we consider who we sure [22:45] that is present during that time your honor meron bang kayong criteria kung paano pipiliin itong mga media [22:57] personalities or kung sino lang nagtanong kasi kahit hindi ka naman magtatanong nandoon ka naman [23:03] naririnig mo yung mga ah diskusyon ah meron ba kayong mga criteria kung paano pumipiliin [23:09] ng media personalities ah yung sure po namin na present during that time kasi kapag hindi po kasi kayo [23:16] nagtanong hindi po magpapop up yung mukha nyo tsaka yung pangalan nyo okay at ah itong mga anim na sinupina ninyo ah ano yung kanyang [23:28] common statement na ibinigay ah kinonfir po nila na present sila during the november 23 2024 press [23:36] conference and yung utterance po ni vice president narinig po nila okay i believe ilan dito sa mga [23:42] personalities ay ipapatawag rin so tatalon mo tatalon ako sa ibang ah topic ah nakita ko kanina itong tungkol sa ah [23:52] ah max core interventions at nakita ko kanina ah pinakita yung ah ah articles of incorporation mukha siyang supplier [24:01] ng equipment ngayon nasabi rin na doon ka nag training for two weeks ah sino nagbaya [24:09] doon training ah sir the training is included in the procurement of digital forensic tools ah in a pro in the [24:16] procurement document it ah ni require po si max core na mag provide po nung training included in the [24:23] equipment sir yung paggamit ng equipment tsaka yung ano po yung process po ng digital forensic as a whole [24:29] yung kanya lang pag sila ba ay diba sa mga sa mga it let's say ah oracle alam natin kilala yan pagdating [24:39] sa it si max core ba ay kilala pagdating sa digital ah forensic ah training kasi sa alam pag nakita ko [24:47] kanina talagang supplier sila but are they a a well-known or internationally renowned training ah [24:55] organization it is not not it's not the max core itself but it's the trainer that they provide sir that is [25:02] ah ah capable in training us sir itong trainer na ito certified siya in a [25:09] in this type of uh technology yes sir ah the trainer has a lot of certifications in relation to [25:15] digital forensic sir can you name a few certification na meron itong trainer na ito oh i can't remember [25:23] or let's say oracle or let's say microsoft di ba may mga ganyan yan no sir uh comtea sir uh comtea training [25:30] i believe he also have a certified ethical hacking uh certification and a lot more sir when it was [25:37] presented to us sir all right so itong mga trainers nito ay certified ah trainers na pwedeng mag train [25:45] sa iyo at magiging certified ka rin yes sir initially uh mr presiding officer after training [25:53] nakakuha ka ba ng certification nakatulad sa kanila ah no sir but that uh certification that i was trained [26:00] by them sir pero ikaw mismo are you certified uh to do forensic uh examinations for your uh purpose [26:10] and responsibility uh i have a certification sir uh i i am a certified computer hacking forensic [26:15] investigator sir itong forensic ano forensic analysis meron kang for this purpose itong pinag-uusapan [26:21] natin uh the computer uh the authentication sir part or as a whole sir as a whole as a whole i have [26:30] a certification in computer hacking sir specific but i have trainings in relation to the iba yung [26:35] hacking eh yung pinag-uusapan natin forensic examination ng video forensic examination ng mga ganitong [26:42] bagay meron kang certification doon i have certificates sir all right thank you thank you mr presiding [26:47] officer uh senator judge ervin tulfo thereafter senator judge marcos you may proceed sir you have two [26:54] minutes maraming salamat mr chair uh mr presiding officer uh ang katanungan ko po ay para sa ating [27:03] testigo ah batid ko po na sa ilalim ng uh republic of 108 67 sa ilalim po na section 4 ang [27:15] kapangyarihan po ng inyong ahensya na mag-imbestiga kapag ah na mga krimen [27:21] particular na it's your honor and was this uh inter is there an interagency also or just purely [27:28] nbi uh i don't have personal knowledge maybe archip sir has the knowledge on that sir yeah no [27:33] that's that's that's all i asked for naman yung personal knowledge uh ano ang so pakiulit mo yung [27:40] yung sinabing how exactly sinabi sa iyo na tignan mo yung video investigan mo or my statement so [27:47] so oh to be specific sir uh as far as remember may statement si vice president uh regarding the [27:58] november 23 press conference na ano uh kung saan may pagbabantana naganap uh pakiimbestigahan [28:07] so ganun ka general may pagbabantang naganap pakiimbestigahan yes and you proceeded by watching [28:13] the video yes your honor and when you watch the video you got to the part no may pagbabanta no your [28:19] honor i don't i first don't know which part of that so you watch the whole video of course first the [28:26] clippings your honor okay then i look for the whole video your honor then you watch the whole video yes [28:32] yes your honor and thank you for your honesty so after the clipping tapos the whole video what did [28:36] you do next you reported or you made uh your recommendations i don't understand the process [28:42] lang kasi uh upon identifying the whole video i informed my executive officer that i identified [28:49] the video your honor and then yung sinabi mo yesterday then you started looking for patterns [28:54] that's why you looked at yung dating mga video ni vice president yes your honor so you started investigating [29:00] the threat against the president the first lady and the former speaker of the house yes your honor did [29:06] you investigate the threat against the vice president we tried your honor how did you try uh it is [29:12] included in our letter to the vice president your honor uh that is that's why we're inviting her to [29:18] proceed to our office to investigate the threats to her life your honor how about the vlogger who asked her [29:25] about uh oplan or whatever they call that uh romanov did you invite them yes your honor and did they [29:32] testify uh the princess mawi did not appear your honor did not appear did you also look for previous videos [29:40] that are threatening to the vice president uh we look on the romano part your honor okay but we identify a [29:51] different person who mentioned who first mentioned the roman of your honor did you coordinate with the [29:56] psg uh i have no personal knowledge your honor you yourself yes your honor maybe our chief your honor [30:02] but you are aware that the primary responsibility of protecting both the president and the vice president [30:08] is the psg yes your honor so isn't it fair to say that any investigation against a threat to the first family the first the [30:15] president or uh the president or uh the vice president you would normally ask the psg if they received any [30:22] threat i have no personal knowledge your honor i'm i'm asking hindi ba normal sa investigation kung sino yung [30:31] primary agency na taga protekta na lumalaban dun sa threat ay tatanungin natin yes your honor so [30:39] bakit hindi tinanong ng nbi ang psg or in your case why didn't you ask the psg maybe uh it can be answered by [30:49] a chief your honor no i'm not i will ask your chief also i'm asking you when they said look at this [30:55] you looked at other videos you tried to get princess mawi you tried to get uh the vice president but you [31:01] didn't contact the psg for the first lady for the president and for you know for for all you know the [31:07] psg will tell you right there and there the threat is real or the psg will say political [31:13] both the vice president and the president are protected by the psg so why wasn't in your [31:19] so so nakalimutan lang or wala sa procedure nyo or your honor there's already a statement from the [31:25] national security council your honor that it is an active threat your honor that's why we start [31:30] investigation yes and the primary group that will know if it's an active threat is the psg so if this [31:38] was the united states it will be the secret service so whether the fbi or the cia state troopers the uh [31:46] federal marshals kung sino man mag-iimbestiga parati nilang tatanungin yung secret service so i'm just [31:51] curious why uh we did not ask the psg uh input so um my last question is how did you characterize the threat [32:07] uh of the vice president uh of the vice president to the president given that the exact words [32:14] niya wag kang mag-alala mam sa security ko kasi may kinausap na akong tao sinabi ko sa kanya kapag [32:21] pinatay ako so so that i'll be fair to you and not vague no did that phrase kapag pinatay ako have any bearing in [32:32] your investigation yes your honor and what was that bearing or thoughts in your mind uh first of all [32:38] po dun sa statement may nakausap na po uh it already took place before pa yung mangyari yung meeting and [32:45] no condition i'm not talking about yung may kinausap na para pumatay ang sinasabi ko yung sinabi niya na [32:52] pag pinatay ako yes how did that affect your investigation uh there is a condition nakapag pinatay [32:59] siya but as we can see it's only applicable if there is only two parties uh the statement make [33:06] a loophole wherein a third party can use that na kapag namatay si bp uh ma-execute ngayon yung [33:18] statement ni bp na may nakausap na siya without the participation of the one mentioned the president [33:25] the first lady and the speaker of the house your honor that's fair but what i'm saying is that in your [33:30] reports did you characterize it as a conditional threat kasi kung hindi naman siya pinatay the [33:37] logical implication implication is that there's no threat against the so i'm not saying it's not [33:42] illegal immoral to contract a killer i'm just trying to follow the logic napag so pag sinabi kong [33:50] pakukulong kita mr witness pag nagsinungaling ka under oath then it's actually not a threat it's a legal [33:59] i'm i'm just telling you the law diba pero pag sinabi kong pag hindi ka sumunod sa akin [34:04] anong kita so that's my last question lang so how did you characterize that it wasn't a conditional in [34:11] your in your mind because may kinausap na even with or without sir it's still considered a threat as [34:19] long as the i have no doubt there i'm just asking is it a conditional threat based on our [34:29] affidavit sir i believe it's conditional which based on your affidavit but your initial assessment [34:37] personal mo as an investigator this investigation of the whole nbi but yung personal mo the threat is [34:43] absolute sir okay thank you mr president thank you thank you senator judge calitano we now proceed [34:49] senator judge padilla is recognized maraming salamat thereafter senator judge zubiri [34:58] maraming salamat [34:59] josh padilla you have two minutes [35:02] nais ko lamang po magtanong sa ating saksi [35:08] ginong saksi kanina po kasi habang nagkakaroon ng pagdinig [35:14] ako po yung laging na i-istorbo dahil tuwing maitatanong mag-u-object mag-u-object medyo magulo [35:23] po eh pwede po bang sagutin po ninyo ako dahil noong pong february 5 ang sabi po dito [35:33] ay insufficient po yung na hindi dapat makarating na sa preliminary investigation [35:43] tama po ba february 5 po yun may certification sir yes pa po tapos noong february 14 [35:51] naging sufficient na for conduct of preliminary investigation [35:57] nasabot po ba yung pito na sinabi dito na para ang sinasabi po kasi dito noong february 5 [36:06] merong pito na kulang i believe so sir that's why we have received a certification sir [36:14] ayun kasi po parang narinig ko kanina hindi po na ibigay yung original copy [36:22] nung sinagawang interview kay Vice President Sara Duterte [36:29] yung original po na kopya kung sino po yung nag record [36:34] wala po kayong afidabit meron po ba kayong afidabit na nakuha nyo [36:37] yes sir ako po yung nag ang nire request po ng DOJ dyan is affidabit po nung nag screen record which is my [36:45] afidabit your honor meron po siyang afidabit ako sir ako po yung nag execute sir [36:49] hindi po yung mismong tao yes po ang hinihingi po kasi ni DOJ is kung sino yung nag screen record [36:55] through OBS sir hmm hindi po yung mismong tao yes your honor kayo lang po yung nag afidabit yes your honor [37:02] pero meron po kayong napagkakataon ba na nakausap nyo yung tao at nagbigay siya ng afidabit may i clarify [37:10] your honor if sinong tao yung tinutukod yung nag record po ako po yung nag record through OBS sir [37:15] hindi po yung mismong nag record po kay indai sa Vice President nakausap nyo po ba yung raw file po kasi napakahalaga [37:28] po nun kasi dun po natin malalaman kung original ba o hindi the video itself sir is publicly available [37:36] that's why i performed the recording sir o po pakisagot na lang po mahal na saksi kung nakuha nyo po [37:44] ba yung original yung original hindi po yung galing sa internet the original no sir [37:50] hindi lamang po maraming salamat po thank you senator judge padilla senator judge um zabiri [37:58] you are recognized sir you have two minutes marami salamat to our presiding officer magandang hapon po [38:04] sir witness doctor in your honor doctor noon gusto ko lang magtanong clarificatory questions [38:09] lang po ito ah dito ba sa ating bansa dahil tinatanong po po sa inyo dahil kayo po investigating body [38:15] sa ating bansa meron bang specific law pagdating sa mga banta sa pangulo pangalawang pangulo at kanyang [38:22] mga successors or yan bay pasok lang sa grave threats which is applied sa lahat applicable sa lahat ng tao based on [38:32] my personal knowledge sir it's only on the grave threat your honor which is applied to everyone [38:38] if i'm not mistaken kasi sa batas sa america sa estados unidos meron po tinatawag na number 18 [38:46] under the united states code section 871 there is a specific law na bawal tinagbabawal po itong mga [38:55] threats to the vice to the president vice president and its successors may may jail time po ito at may fine [39:04] na malaki as a matter of fact dito sa pano ni pangulong trump marami na po silang kinasuhan at [39:12] hinabla at napasok sa kulungan dahil sa paglabag nitong batas na ito at secret service po ang [39:21] sumasagawa ng investigation sa atin ba dito ang nbi ba ang nabigyan po ng kapangyarihan para [39:29] gawin itong investigation under your new nbi code under our law sir the new nbi law included po yung [39:36] investigation to the threats to the life of the president the vice president the speaker the [39:42] uh senate president and the supreme court sir so uh claro na kayo nasa kapangyarihan ninyo kasi hindi [39:52] pwede sa presidential security group hindi katulad sa estados unidos yung uh uh secret service [39:58] ang talagang nanguhuli at uh naging investiga sa atin din sa pilipinas ang nbi po ang nangunguna [40:06] sa investigation it is it is within our law sir okay and uh this is just food for thought because [40:13] not only are we senator judges we're also legislators it may be time that we also craft a law that will [40:21] be specific on threats made to the president vice president and its successors meaning the senate [40:27] president the speaker of the house and the supreme court chief justice sa america kasi sa batas po nila [40:33] and i'll just uh wrap up the defendant to secure conviction the defendant communicated a threat [40:40] the defendant understood and intended the statement as a true threat di po niya sinabi joke only in the end [40:47] and pangatlo the defendant knowingly and willfully makes the threat so just food for thought as [40:54] legislators as well so maraming salamat po mr president thank you senator judge um zaburi we now um proceed to [41:01] where we um left off i believe that was um the redirect of the council for the prosecutor um just out of [41:10] curiosity without any pressure because i promised i would declare a break somewhere in between depending [41:16] on how long your director and recross would be i can call the break after the recross and the statement [41:22] of the council for respondent so that we break on a on a good on a good on a good point before we call [41:28] on the last witness for today yes council for the prosecutor so the question if uh the prosecution [41:35] will do the direct examination the redirect sorry the redirect examination after the cross-examination of [41:42] the defense the prosecution decides not to conduct a redirect or please thank you um council for the [41:50] prosecutor um council for um the respondent do you want to begin to utilize your time now your honor i will [41:57] turn over the uh the might do my co-counsel he will also be the cross-examiner for the next witness but [42:06] do you order please oh sorry uh may i make a manifestation or please uh before uh we proceed to order please [42:13] um manifestation as to uh the state connection with what council for the prosecutors as to the manifestation [42:18] earlier that all the documents that have that were confronted uh that were uh presented to the witness [42:25] i believe that the defense said that all those exhibits were pre-marked but based on our records [42:31] your honor please and then i hope the defense will clarify this for the record we perused the documents [42:38] and we don't see that the articles of partnership and the screenshots of the websites that were presented [42:50] earlier based on our tally based on our records these were not pre-marked contrary to what the defense [42:56] manifested so we would like to see clarification from the defense that is correct your honor those [43:01] three documents were noted and entered into the records um given that there is no redirect and recross um [43:09] council can you state for the record your name good afternoon your honors i am mark cv luan for the [43:16] vice president um sir you have uh you're aware of the situation um time was given to the council for the [43:23] prosecutors to make a discussion about whether or not article four the the acts alleged article four [43:30] constitute an impeachable offense you have um the same time of four minutes and 26 minutes which will [43:38] run you if you if before i before i allow you to continue um um mr witness mr calilong [43:46] uh senator judge laxon before we excuse senator judge soto is recognized sir what is your pleasure sir [44:07] uh mr president uh mr siding officer are we going to dispense with the witness already um [44:14] um unless you have questions i think i believe senator laxon has questions um to do with us so not yet [44:20] well uh it's a simple question um thank you very much you're familiar with the internet of course [44:30] yes your honor have you noticed that lately all the ai generated uh videos have a caption saying [44:40] ai generated yes your honor kaya pag walang nakalagay na ai generated siguradong hindi ai [44:47] generated uh yes your honor today your honor yes lately lately your honor lahat nakalagay pag ai [44:56] generated nakalagay ai generated and meta does not allow it right uh they allowed it but there is a [45:03] uh there is a uh ai info uh there is uh ai info correct correct let's see there is a manifestation [45:10] yes your honor it is explicitly mentioned that ai so you're aware of that yes your honor thank you [45:16] that's it senator judge laxon you have you likewise have two minutes sir you may proceed thank you mr [45:24] presenting officer mr senate president uh i have questions para sa ating testigo since you are presented [45:31] here as an expert witness alam nyo nag-consort din ako sa digital forensics expert para lang makonbin [45:37] sarili ko no my first question is in this day and age of artificial intelligence will you agree with me [45:45] now it is almost impossible to distinguish an ai generated video from the original it is impossible yes [45:56] your honor it is hard your honor yeah very hard very difficult so kasi ito impeachment trial ano kasi [46:03] sa court ginagamit talaga yung expert testimony ng digital or computer forensics expert now you may or may [46:14] not answer this question kung classified gusto ko lang malaman ano ba yung digital forensic tools na [46:23] ginagamit ginagamit din sa nbi currently i'm not familiar but during the time na nandun po ko sa digital [46:31] forensic laboratory division meron kaming encase forensic uh celebrate and amped authenticate sir [46:40] amped amped authenticate sir ang balita ko yung amped 5 or amped authenticate amped authenticate sir [46:47] ah ito yung ginagamit nyo ah ito yung ginagamit nyo ah ito ah capable ito na magsagawa ng reverse [46:54] image a photo or video di ba yes your honor okay ito ba yung ginamit mo ah for this part your honor the [47:03] ob is only all your honor but hindi nyo ginamit ito ah the duration is too large your honor the two hours [47:10] and the amped authenticate can only detect if there is a ah inconsistent fps your honor yeah kasi kaya [47:22] ako tinanong yun dahil ah una-una maraming ano eh para mag-adher na magamit sa korte no ah likewise [47:31] sa impeachment court ah may mga requirements diba sinabi mo kasi meron kayong open source [47:38] diba pero ang pinaka importante ah yung chain of custody of course yung provenance yes your honor [47:45] yung original na pinanggalingan yes your honor sabi mo pinanggalingan lang facebook the facebook [47:53] was captured your honor so hindi yun ang original diba ah the screen recording is the original itself [48:00] as to my authentication sir yeah and you can attest sa authenticity nung video yes your honor in spite of [48:09] not being or not having originated from the original yes your honor i compared the ah recorded [48:17] with the original and ensure that the contents are identical your honor kasi nabanggit mo rin ginamit mo [48:22] yung manual comparison simultaneously ng dalawang videos yes your honor pero again i will insist na talagang ah [48:33] ah hindi reliable yung manual ito yung sinabi sa akin ng digital forensics expert na na na nakausap ko ano ah [48:42] ah ang pinaka mas importante makuha mo yung original copy yun nga yung provenance diba para talagang tapos masundan mo yung sa [48:52] analysis gagamitan mo ng tools para malaman mo na talagang authentic yung video of course ah i'm not here to question the [49:02] authenticity and i just want to be assured dahil sabi mo kanina pagka sa [49:09] artificial intelligence napakahirap talaga almost impossible to uh to distinguish it from the [49:14] original uh video or yung source yes your honor and uh you are competent enough [49:21] the select ginagamit yung forensic uh forensic tools or forensics tools at yung inyong [49:27] competence mo ah through your uh training you know and experience your honor and experience kasi [49:33] sabi mo nga you've been with the nbi since 2021 diba yes your honor and since then you have appeared in [49:40] some 20 at least 30 your honor 30 yes court hearings yes your honor so thank you your honor thank you [49:50] senator judge um lakson senator judge cayetano what is your pleasure just a clarification addressed to the [50:00] presiding officer you may procedure apologies i don't remember if it was one of the councils of [50:06] one of the senator judges who asked the witness a while ago whether he was an expert witness and [50:11] he said he was a competent witness that is correct and there's a difference between an expert witness so [50:17] he's not an expert witness he's an competent witness that is correct so that will have bearing because [50:24] whether or not an ai video can be produced without an ai has to be testified by an expert witness [50:32] if i may wait yeah go ahead that doesn't mean i i don't think you'll disagree with my second [50:38] statement that doesn't mean that this witness is not competent to testify on that second point [50:46] i just like to clarify for the record my understanding of watching the video is that it was on stream yard [50:54] then a link was shared so facebook yes so if that's the case mr presiding officer the original [51:01] video is with stream yard not with facebook or are both original it's zoom your honor zoom yes your honor [51:08] i was informed stream yard but just for the record so that later on when we review everything [51:13] um someone testified to it surely noted yeah thank you yeah surely noted under the records [51:20] um mr vinluan you have your four minutes and 26 seconds but we cannot use the seconds in our timer so [51:31] just look at the clock sir please your honor please before we ah yes uh mr kalilong you are excused sir [51:40] thank you and thank you for your time and cooperation with this impeachment court thank you so [51:44] much uh nbi senior agent john mark kalilong thank you so much um hold on mr kalilong um yes [51:52] senator judge padilla what is your pleasure sir uh ginoong tagapamahala ng hukumang ito [52:01] nais ko lamang po sana hingin ang mga credentials ng ating ah ah saksi kung paano po lahat [52:10] yung kanyang certification lahat upang mapatunayan po natin lahat na it's ready to it earlier but kindly um [52:20] respond to the question of senator judge padilla mr witness i have here sir my certifications during the time of my [52:27] investigation your honor can you uh uh i can read your honor uh ibigay na lang po siguro [52:38] kindly just submit it to us yes please thank you your honor if that is okay with senator judge padilla [52:45] thank you sir um mr kalilong you are excused sir and thank you for your time in cooperation with [52:51] impeachment card thank you your honor the presiding officer will just wait for um the witness to um [52:59] leave the premises before recognizing um attorney billon okay [53:19] you