HHS Secretary RFK Jr. testifies at Senate Committee hearing

[0:02] Watch the sideline. [0:16] They seem like... [0:18] They're like... [0:21] It's like it's right there. [0:23] It's close to anyone else. [0:25] It's close to anyone else. [0:32] As far as everybody's concerned, [0:34] it's probably good. [0:36] It's pretty good. [0:38] Yeah, so they're right in front of the office. [0:40] It's right there. [0:42] It's right there. [0:44] It's kind of clean down. [0:46] I mean, I think it's... [0:48] I'm going to travel a lot. [0:50] I'm traveling a lot. [0:56] Right here, I get a quantity. [0:59] Yeah, I haven't done it yet. [1:01] I'll get a shot there. [1:23] I want to get out of here. [1:30] I don't know how... [1:34] I don't know how... [1:39] I don't know how... [1:41] The only time we were there... [1:45] The Senate Committee on Health Education, Labor, and Pensions will please come to order. [7:12] Secretary Kennedy, thank you for coming before the committee. [7:17] I've been traveling my state a lot. [7:19] And affordability, whether it's gasoline, groceries, or healthcare, is top of mind. [7:24] And when patients speak to me how expensive their prescription drugs are, [7:29] it resonates with them when I say, [7:33] Wait a minute. [7:35] There's middlemen jacking up the price for their own profitability. [7:38] My constituents' patients get that and they want help. [7:41] I'll go back to my experience practicing medicine. [7:44] If the patient has the power, if the patient is the reason for the care and not an excuse for the bill, [7:50] then prices tend to come down. [7:52] The question is, how do we achieve that? [7:55] I believe the President is focused on this. [7:57] And Mr. Secretary, I think you believe this as well. [8:00] So I look forward to hearing how this administration's proposed budget makes the patient the one in charge. [8:06] Now, there's some common sense things we can do. [8:09] How can we get life-saving drugs to patients faster and cheaper? [8:13] Last week, the HELP Committee held a hearing on increasing access to generic and biosimilar drugs, [8:18] which cost less and allow patients to keep more money in their pockets [8:24] while still having access to the medicines they need. [8:27] Another thing that can lower costs is getting new drugs onto market more rapidly. [8:32] In February, I released a report as to how to do that. [8:35] Getting faster treatments, which lowers R&D costs that contribute to research and development costs. [8:41] If they're higher, they contribute to higher prices [8:44] while maintaining the gold standard for safety and effectiveness. [8:47] Many of the ideas discussed in my report and by our witnesses at the hearing last week [8:52] for both new treatments and generics were included in policies [8:56] that the administration has proposed in this year's budget, [8:59] and this is something that we can work on together. [9:01] There are other ways to make health insurance and healthcare more affordable. [9:05] Last week, I released the MVP agenda, Money and Value for Patients, MVP, [9:12] to build upon President Trump's efforts to give money to patients rather than insurance companies [9:16] to use for their out-of-pocket cost. [9:18] If paired with price transparency, the patient can shop for the most affordable healthcare, [9:24] eliminating unnecessary bureaucracy and eliminating profit that doesn't flow to patients [9:29] but flows to entities that pad costs in the system for their own benefit. [9:33] And that price transparency bill is a bipartisan bill by members of this committee. [9:37] While we speak of affordability, let's just recognize that if we don't come up with treatments and cures [9:44] for things like Alzheimer's and dementia and cancer, then the boomer generation could bankrupt our country [9:50] for the cost of care for these conditions. [9:53] And the way to address that is to invest heavily in science [9:59] and to use that investment effectively. [10:02] I would argue that includes taking the resources of the NIH [10:05] and making them more accessible to researchers at a wide variety of universities [10:10] so that it is the collective brain power across our nation [10:13] and not just the brain power at a few concentrated institutions or cities. [10:18] I credit Dr. Bhattacharya who came before our committee and was very encouraging [10:23] regarding his understanding of these issues. [10:26] Lastly, standing up for patients includes standing up for the most vulnerable. [10:34] Protecting women from the dangers of chemical abortion drugs is a step we can take right now to protect life. [10:41] Frankly, many pro-life Louisianians have been disappointed by the lack of action on this front. [10:47] We need a willing partner to stand up for life. [10:50] Mr. Secretary, you have said that every abortion is a strategy. [10:53] I would say it's time to stop stalling on the safety study for abortion drugs. [10:59] It's time to reinstate the in-person safeguards protecting women from abuse and coercion. [11:06] I will note there are criminal charges against a mother in Louisiana [11:12] and in other jurisdictions I'm told boyfriends coercing or tricking a pregnant person into taking these pills. [11:20] All this would be eliminated with a restoration of the in-person requirement. [11:26] By the way, this is public record. [11:28] The young woman, the young victim was Rosalie Markazic. [11:32] So, and there is a prosecution of the person that gave. [11:36] If there was an in-person requirement reinstated by this administration, the doctor would have said, [11:43] do you want this pill? And she said, no, I want my baby. [11:46] And instead she was coerced and that's the tragedy that has resulted. [11:50] Secretary Kennedy, there's so much this committee and the president's administration can accomplish. [11:56] People in Louisiana are struggling. [11:59] They expect Congress and the administration to do our part as they do their part. [12:06] Let's meet the moment. [12:07] Thank you again, Mr. Secretary, for coming to discuss the proposed HHS budget. [12:12] And with that, I recognize Senator Sanders for his opening statement. [12:15] Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Good to see you again, Secretary Kennedy. [12:20] Let me just respond to the chairman. [12:24] A strong majority of the American people believe that it is women who have the right to control their own lives, not government. [12:33] And I happen to believe that is where we should be going as a nation. [12:40] That's a choice of women, not the government. [12:43] It is no secret that the American healthcare system is broken. [12:50] Every place I go when I speak, I ask people to raise their hands. [12:53] Conservative areas, progressive areas. [12:55] People understand that there is something fundamentally wrong when we are spending twice as much per capita on healthcare as the people of any other nation. [13:05] And yet 85 million Americans are uninsured or underinsured. [13:08] We pay the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs. [13:11] Our life expectancy is significantly lower than other wealthy nations. [13:16] And for working class people, it is six years shorter than for wealthy people in this country. [13:23] System is broken. It is designed to make the insurance companies and the drug companies extremely wealthy. [13:31] And that is what's happening. And ordinary people are being left behind. [13:35] I would have hoped that we would have an administration that would stand up for average people and say, [13:43] you know what, let's do what every other major country on earth does, guarantee healthcare to all people. [13:49] Think that's a radical idea? Every other country on earth does it. [13:52] And they spend substantially less than we do. [13:55] And yet we are moving in exactly the opposite direction as a result of the quote-unquote big beautiful bill. [14:01] 15 million Americans have been thrown off the healthcare that they need. [14:05] But that's not the only problem that we have with what Secretary Kennedy and the President are doing. [14:12] I talk to doctors, as I'm sure everybody on this committee does, in my own state of Vermont and all over this country. [14:20] And doctors are extremely concerned by many of the actions that we're seeing from HHS and the CDC. [14:27] They are concerned that Secretary Kennedy has directed the Centers for Disease Control to publish false information on its website, [14:38] suggesting that childhood vaccines cause autism, despite the findings of more than 40 scientific studies in seven countries, [14:47] that there is no link between vaccines and autism. [14:52] We have seen HHS spread misinformation about the safety and effectiveness of the measles vaccine during the largest measles outbreak in the United States in over 30 years. [15:05] We have seen HHS remove the director of the CDC because she refused to rubber stamp the very dangerous and unstantiated vaccine recommendations coming from the agency. [15:18] We have seen the agency defund promising vaccine research that will leave us woefully unprepared. [15:26] Mr. Chairman, you will remember a couple of years ago we had the leading experts in this country. [15:31] And we asked them, I think we all did, do you anticipate another pandemic after COVID? [15:37] And the answer was unanimously, yes, there is a fear. [15:40] Nobody knows when another pandemic will come. [15:43] And we are now woefully unprepared to address that crisis if and when it comes. [15:49] We have seen CDC and HHS under Secretary Kennedy's leadership. [15:54] We have seen now 3,800 people in America have been infected with measles, the worst outbreak in over 30 years. [16:03] Vaccination rates across the country are falling because parents, I think, are very confused about what they're hearing from Washington. [16:11] And children are dying as a result. [16:15] So right now we are looking at a health care system which is broken and we have leadership in Washington which is making it even worse. [16:26] And what I will chat with you about when I have my question, Secretary Kennedy, is things that you have written which call in doubt the very existence of the germ theory, which is the modern basis of modern medicine. [16:42] Yeah, let's talk about that in a minute. [16:46] But bottom line is what we would like to see is a broken health care system improved. [16:52] Most of us believe that health care is a human right, that all people should have health care, and that we need public health policies which keep our kids and all people healthy, not moving us in the other direction. [17:05] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [17:06] Thank you. [17:08] We're joined today by the Honorable Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., the 26th Secretary of Health and Human Services. [17:16] In his role as Secretary, Mr. Kennedy is responsible for overseeing the nation's civilian federal health agencies, which support direct services for over 150 million Americans and keep all Americans safe by supporting sound science and through the regulation of medical and consumer products. [17:33] I look forward to hearing from you today, sir. [17:36] Thank you for joining us. [17:45] Can you hear me? [17:46] Okay. [17:48] Chairman Cassidy, Ranking Member Saunders, and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to talk about the president's 2027 budget for HHS. [17:59] We stand at a generational turning point. [18:03] Our children are the sickest generation in modern history, and decades of failed policies, captured agencies, and profit-driven systems cost it. [18:13] Parents across the country demanded change, and we are delivering it. [18:18] We're ending the era of federal policies that fueled this chronic disease epidemic and replacing them with policies that put the health of Americans first. [18:28] President Trump and I are challenging the status quo and the institutions that defend it as we work to make America healthy again. [18:36] In just 15 months, HHS has delivered historic wins. [18:42] We negotiated most favored nation drug prices with 16 of the largest drug companies, so Americans no longer pay more than other people in wealthy countries for the same medications. [18:54] We're bringing real transparency to healthcare pricing so that patients know the cost of care before they receive it. [19:02] I use the full convening power of the federal government to bring health insurance CEOs to the table to reform prior authorization, and I convene the 405 biggest tech companies in our country to end information blocking and allow American patients access to their health records on their cell phones for the first time in history. [19:26] We're cutting red tape, speeding decisions, and demanding transparency. [19:32] We're also cracking down on waste, fraud, and abuse. [19:36] This year, HHS and USDA issued new dietary guidelines that put real, whole food at the center of the American plate. [19:45] We flipped the food pyramid upside down and sent a clear message to Americans, eat real food. [19:52] HHS has also opened the door to partnerships with the industry, trade associations, nonprofits, and advocacy groups. [20:03] More than 50 medical schools have committed to expand nutrition education from an average of just two hours to 40 hours. [20:12] Food manufacturers are stepping up to more than 40% of the food industry has committed to phase out petroleum-based dyes by year end, and many have already eliminated them. [20:24] In conjunction with these efforts, FDA approved six natural food colorings from fruits and vegetables. [20:31] Through President Trump's Great American Recovery Initiative, HHS is matching compassion with action to help Americans break the cycle of addiction. [20:41] At HHS, we are prioritizing patients with ultra-rare diseases and their families and driving faster access to life-saving treatments. [20:52] We're restoring gold standard science and integrity across the agency. [20:58] We're protecting children from sex-rejecting procedures that expose them to irreversible harm. [21:04] We're eliminating outdated and misleading warning labels on hormone therapies used to treat women during menopause. [21:13] We're strengthening oversight of organ procurement. [21:17] We're implementing Operation Stork Speed to ensure the safety and quality of infant formula. [21:24] We're applying that same focus and urgency to rural America. [21:28] The Rural Health Transformation Fund delivers the largest investment in rural health in our nation's history. [21:35] $50 billion over five years to strengthen rural hospitals and ensure Americans can access the care they need no matter where they live. [21:45] The HHS announced more than $135 million investment this month to expand rural residency programs and nutrition services. [21:55] The data is clear. [21:57] When physicians train in rural communities, they are far more likely to stay and serve there. [22:03] The President's budget puts all these priorities in action. [22:07] It invests in prevention because preventing disease costs less, delivers better outcomes than treating it. [22:16] As my uncle President John F. Kennedy said, progress is a nice word, but change is its motivator, and change has its enemies. [22:24] We see those forces clearly, entrenched interests, defenders of a failing status quo, and institutions that put profits ahead of the American people. [22:36] The ad resistance underscores the urgency of this moment. [22:40] We can reverse chronic disease, improve public health, and lower costs. [22:44] I stand ready to work with this committee and Congress to seize this opportunity to implement and codify lasting and generational reform in American healthcare. [22:55] For our country, for our children, and for the healthy American people. [23:00] Together, we can make America healthy again. Thank you. [23:04] Thank you, Mr. Secretary. [23:08] You've given a couple of these recently. You hit it right on time. [23:11] I shall begin. [23:12] Mr. Secretary, as I mentioned in my opening statements, I'm concerned that one of the Biden administration's pro-abortion policy, which is the removal of the in-person dispensing requirement for chemical abortion drugs, is still in place. [23:31] And by the way, Senator Sanders objected to me objecting to that. [23:35] We're speaking about people ordering drugs and then tricking a woman into taking them or coercing them into taking it. [23:43] And these are subject to criminal charges in courts right now. [23:47] We should all be opposed to that. [23:50] Secretary Kennedy, why has the department not acted with greater urgency on reinstating the in-person dispensing requirement? [24:00] Senator Cassidy, I appreciate your comments. [24:05] I, unfortunately, will not be able to talk about that. [24:09] I thought that might be the answer, which is frustrating because this has been litigated for years. [24:14] At some point, we'll need to, but I thought that might happen. [24:17] So moving off the litigation, last month, my colleagues and I asked you to address unapproved and misbranded chemical abortion drugs coming from international providers bypassing FDA. [24:30] The first Trump administration worked on the issue, but the problem continues. [24:35] Why hasn't the department taken steps to stop the illegal importation and sale of counterfeit and unapproved abortion drugs? [24:46] We take our responsibility seriously to prosecute people who are selling misbranded drugs. [24:57] And I can talk to my enforcement unit at FDA to figure out why that's not happening to your satisfaction. [25:06] But as far as I know, we're doing that to the utmost possible. [25:10] That is not the case. [25:13] Put it this way, it may be as much as possible, but that would be no effort whatsoever. [25:17] And so I say that because however you feel about these issues, illegal and counterfeit drugs being sold and imported should be a common concern. [25:25] Next, Mr. Secretary, you have talked about restoring trust in the agency around the issue of immunization and people lost trust during the pandemic. [25:35] But I think it's safe to say the trust gap has worsened over the last year due to false statements about safety and efficacy of vaccines for preventable diseases like measles. [25:49] Now, I am a guy who has seen people die from vaccine preventable diseases. [25:56] I didn't hear you. [25:57] I am a doctor who has seen people die from vaccine preventable diseases. [26:01] And when I see outbreaks numbering in the thousands and people dying once more from vaccine preventable diseases, particularly children, it seems more than tragic. [26:12] Now, the CDC director, I applaud. [26:16] You have said in a previous hearing that you were not involved in her selection, but you agree with President Trump's selection. [26:21] I've not met with her yet formally, but I agree as well. [26:24] She seems to be a qualified person. [26:26] I did not say that I was not involved in her selection. [26:29] I didn't follow, but so my question here with the new CDC director, whoever she or he is, there are currently political appointees at CDC who have worked to undermine trust and immunizations. [26:46] Will the new director, whoever she is, have the right to make decisions independently of those political appointees and or replace them or otherwise reassign them so they cannot continue to act [27:01] actively undermine trust and immunizations? [27:03] Your characterization of the political appointees is wrong and the CDC director has that power. [27:12] Now, so she will have, if she wishes to, if she wishes to make a decision independently of them, she shall be allowed to make that decision independently. [27:21] That's correct? [27:23] Yes. [27:24] Okay. [27:25] It's pertinent. [27:26] This summer we're hosting the World Cup and celebrating America's 250th birthday. [27:32] Tourists from all over the world will come to the United States. [27:36] Unfortunately, some of them will bring vaccine-preventable diseases like measles. [27:40] And unfortunately, our measles immunization rates have fallen, which means that this increases the risk of a measles outbreak in the U.S. [27:47] What steps is HHS taking to address the outbreaks that may arise from the World Cup and the folks coming here? [27:56] Mr. Chairman, we've done better at controlling the measles outbreak than any country in the world. [28:02] We, this is a global outbreak. [28:04] It started before I came to office. [28:07] Most, 80% of the children affected are over five years old, which means their decision not to vaccinate predated my appointment. [28:16] We have limited that last year to 2,200 cases. [28:21] Mexico had three times that much with one-third of our population. [28:25] Canada had doubled that much with one-eighth of our population. [28:29] Europe had 127,000 cases the year before. [28:34] We have a global pandemic. [28:36] It has nothing to do with me. [28:38] I wasn't in any of those countries. [28:40] We should not be comparing ourselves. [28:43] I've done a better job at limiting it in any country in the world. [28:46] And you can talk to Governor McMaster about that and Governor Abbott about the help that we've given them in Texas. [28:52] We know how to control the outbreaks. [28:54] The question was, what steps has the administration taken to track the diseases that would come in potentially through these? [29:01] You're pointing out that other countries have outbreaks, which increases the likelihood they will bring that here. [29:07] And our immunization rates have fallen below 95%. [29:10] Unfortunately, I'm out of time on this question. [29:13] I will yield to Senator Sanders, but I may come back because that question wasn't answered. [29:17] I can tell you we are now, we are laser focused on that. [29:22] We have booths and testing booths and institutions all over the games. [29:28] Okay, Senator Sanders. [29:30] Thank you. [29:31] Secretary Kenney, thanks for being with us. [29:34] In your book, The Real Anthony Fauci, you wrote, and I quote, [29:42] A doctrinal canon of the germ theory credits vaccines for the dramatic declines of infectious disease mortalities in North America and Europe during the 20th century. [29:55] Most Americans accept this claim as dogma. [29:59] It will therefore come as a surprise to learn that it is simply untrue. [30:04] But despite your assertion in your book, according to a peer reviewed study in The Lancet led by the World Health Organization's vaccine has have vaccines have saved the lives of more than 150 million people and reduced infant deaths by 40% over the past 50 years. [30:27] So my question is a simple one. [30:29] Do you still believe that one of the central tenets of the germ theory that vaccines sharply reduce infant mortality is, quote unquote, simply untrue? [30:39] What I was saying in that book, first of all, the study you cited is a modeling study. [30:46] It's a modeling study. [30:47] A modeling study. [30:49] CDC has actually done a real study that answers that question. [30:54] It's called Geyer, G-U-I-E-R, 20 or 2000. [30:58] And it says that the 80% mortality in chronic disease that took place in the 20th century, that almost none of it was attributable to vaccination. [31:13] It was attributable to hygiene, to sewer plants, the better water supplies, to engineering that got oranges. [31:22] I have to interrupt you because I have other questions. [31:25] You're entitled to your view. [31:28] That's CDC's view. [31:30] Well, you're entitled to CDC's view. [31:33] But according to the World Health Organization and scientists all over the world, vaccines have played an enormous role in saving lives. [31:44] I don't contest that. [31:46] I'm just saying if you want to talk about why disease mortalities disappeared in the 20th century, it was not vaccines. [31:54] Well, you are in a minority. [31:56] Well, I'm just talking about. [31:57] All right. [31:58] I got other questions. [31:59] One second. [32:00] All right. [32:01] All right. [32:02] Secretary Kennedy, you have talked about, I think correctly, the fact that a lot of our kids are eating ultra-processed food, foods high in sugar. [32:13] We have, as you know, an epidemic in obesity in this country. [32:18] We spend zillions of dollars dealing with diabetes caused by obesity. [32:22] I believe that we should follow countries like Chile, Mexico, and put strong warning labels on products that will show parents about the nature of the food their kids are eating. [32:40] So my question to you is, how long will it take before your agency puts strong warning labels on unhealthy food and beverages? [32:50] Early in April, we did our final regulations of finally having a definition for what ultra-processed food is. [32:59] That is now in the interagency process. [33:03] We have no control over what happens there with the other agencies. [33:06] As soon as it comes back to us, we're going to do the labeling record. [33:10] Let me ask you this. [33:11] President Trump's nominee for Surgeon General Casey Means told this committee that she agreed with me that junk food ads in the United States should be banned from TV. [33:23] What do you think? [33:25] Do you agree with her? [33:28] I would support that. [33:30] Good. [33:31] In other words, what we're seeing now is these big food industry companies spending huge amounts of money telling kids to eat crap. [33:41] And I think it would make a lot of sense if we banned those ads from TV. [33:45] I'm hearing you saying that you agree with me on that? [33:48] The only hesitation I was was we tried to do a smoking ban on TV and the tobacco companies voluntarily came to the table, which was a good thing. [33:59] And I think the same arguments apply for junk food. [34:03] They're probably even worse for Americans than smoking. [34:06] Good. [34:08] Well, Art, I would hope you take a leadership role in making it clear that we should get these ads which just entice kids or dick kids to really bad food off the air. [34:18] All right? [34:19] Good. [34:20] All right. [34:21] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [34:23] Senator Paul. [34:24] Senator Kenney, thanks for appearing. [34:25] I think Senator Sanders makes a great point on obesity and type 2 diabetes. [34:29] And, you know, replacing ads or warning people that food is bad would be one thing. [34:34] But one thing we could do immediately would be having the taxpayer quit subsidizing bad food. [34:39] So soda infused with sugar, chips, dips, Twinkies, Ding Dongs, donuts, bags of candy. [34:50] We should agree. [34:51] And I can't understand. [34:52] I've had this bill for a couple of years. [34:53] We need to get somebody across the aisle that cares about nutrition enough to say we shouldn't subsidize bad things. [34:59] And one thing I think you have done is actually directed the states and given states waivers to try to do this. [35:05] But we need to codify that. [35:06] And I won't ask you a question on this. [35:08] I just hope that the administration will think about supporting the bill and letting other Republicans know that you will support it if it comes through. [35:15] My question is this, though, because I think there's agreement to a lot of problems, but we disagree on solutions. [35:21] We agree with the problem of high drug prices. [35:24] It's a problem. [35:26] And some people really on both sides say, well, if we just publish the price, the problem will go away. [35:31] I'm one who doesn't believe that at all because I think most prices are fixed and most consumers really don't care about the prices while the prices are high. [35:39] Now, why don't they care about the price? [35:41] Because they don't pay it. [35:42] You know, it's either fixed through their insurance company. [35:44] It's fixed through Medicare. [35:45] It's fixed through Medicaid. [35:47] Almost all the prices are fixed. [35:48] The only people who actually pay the price of the drugs and care about the price of drugs are people who have a high deductible and have an HSA. [35:55] So there are a couple of things we could do that would transform the drug pricing world and the insurance world that cost nothing, cost nothing to the taxpayer. [36:04] Only about 10% of people have an HSA. [36:07] Why? [36:08] Because the government rules say your insurance product is not eligible for an HSA. [36:13] I'd make everybody eligible for an HSA. [36:15] I'd let your health savings account pay for your premium and your deductible. [36:20] Let your HSA pay for healthy things, gym membership, diet program, all kinds of stuff that could be for better health. [36:26] Let everybody have an HSA, raise the limits. [36:29] I would also let people negotiate. [36:32] What happens is if I go to the store and want to negotiate over the price, nobody cares. [36:37] But if I joined a co-op like Costco or Amazon through an association health plan, they could bid for my insurance. [36:44] Costco has 44 million members. [36:46] You think they're going to have more leverage than me and my five employees? [36:49] So in the first Trump administration, President Trump did an executive order on this. [36:56] We have legislation to do this and we're talking to people in the administration, but we'd appreciate help on letting people join a co-op or association plan regardless of their employment. [37:06] Right now it has to be, you have to all be carpenters. [37:09] You have to all be farmers or cattlemen. [37:11] We think anybody that belongs to Costco or Amazon, let them be a purchaser of insurance by loosening up the laws and that would work. [37:19] So I'd appreciate your idea on legalizing, increasing HSAs and then legalizing the concept of letting people buy insurance or drugs through like a large co-op across state lines. [37:30] And wouldn't it be great if we took the billions of dollars that we're giving to the insurance industry, which increased its share value by a thousand percent after the passage of Obamacare. [37:45] Wouldn't it be better if we took that money and gave it to people to buy their own HSAs, which gives them value-based care, and then let them actually participate in a market that will drive down prices? [37:59] The only reason I would differ on that, because I'm not sure how you're talking about taking the money from the insurance companies, but I'd be for the idea that the insurance companies would get less of the take if we expanded HSAs and you were negotiating directly. [38:12] That's another way to put it, Senator. [38:14] Well, and then the money would be more directed towards the individual and the individual would be able to use it. [38:18] The other thing about it that people don't think through is they say only rich people have HSAs. [38:23] Well, let's say only 10 or 20 percent of people have HSAs. [38:26] Because they bid on the prices, it brings down the price for everybody. [38:29] And when you have innovations in the marketplace, rich people do get them before the rest of us get them. [38:34] But it always drives the price down as it spreads to the rest of the marketplace. [38:38] But I think there are things we could do and would be open to. [38:41] And the thing on restricting bad foods from being subsidized and then the idea of negotiating as a cop, [38:47] neither one of these costs money or even saves money, but ultimately would give a lot more power to the consumer. [38:53] I would just add that 50 percent of the states have now at our request applied for waivers so that they can get Sandy's soda and candies off of SNAP. [39:09] We're paying for the poorest kids, 63 million poorest kids in this country, to get diabetes. [39:14] And then we're treating 78 percent of them with Medicaid afterwards. [39:18] So we're paying at both ends. It makes no sense. [39:21] And once we finalize the ultra-processed food definition, we can ask the states to start adding that to their SNAP waivers. [39:30] I agree completely. And I think if you did that and if we did that across the United States, [39:34] it could be the most important thing we do for the health of Americans and particularly for poor kids that we've ever done in our history. [39:41] We have to get beyond this, oh, everybody has a right to a bag of candy. [39:44] No, we need to have healthy food. [39:46] There's lots of other food that you can buy, but we should restrict it from the unhealthy things. [39:50] And I appreciate your efforts on this. [39:52] Senator Kaine. [39:53] Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Secretary. [39:58] Secretary Kennedy, who at HHS is responsible for monitoring whether health facilities like hospitals are closing as a result of changes that were included in the reconciliation bill last summer? [40:17] The same guy who was responsible for monitoring the closers for hospitals due to the ACA regulations. [40:26] Yeah. Who is it and what department is that? [40:29] That would be Dr. Oz. [40:32] Right now, Dr. Oz is responsible for monitoring those closures. [40:37] He's ultimately responsible, right? [40:39] Yeah. [40:40] So, but I mean, do you have anybody in HHS like in the Secretary's Office that is monitoring to see what's happening with the closures of facilities since the reconciliation? [40:48] We have a CMS council, but that would be within CMS. [40:52] Okay. [40:53] Because I want to bring to the attention of my colleagues and to the Secretary's Office closures in Virginia because of the reconciliation bill. [41:02] The bill was passed right at the beginning of July 2025. [41:06] Less than two months later on September 4th, Augusta Medical Group, which is located in Fishersville, Virginia, rural Shenandoah County, announced the closure of three clinics, two rural primary care clinics and one urgent care clinic. [41:21] And in their announcement, Augusta Health said the consolidation is part of Augusta Health's ongoing response to the one big beautiful bill act and the resulting realities for health care delivery. [41:33] Then on December 19th, 2025, Centra announced its decision to discontinue all OBGYN services at their Centra Southside Community Hospital in Farmville, which is in rural Southside, Virginia. [41:47] And the announcement, Centra said, quote, Centra, like other rural health care providers, must adapt to significant financial and operational challenges, including recently enacted reductions in federal health care funding. [42:00] And then just in the last two weeks, Valley Health, which provides health care in the northern Shenandoah Valley in and around Winchester, announced it was making significant changes across its hospital system, including closing an observation unit that serves patients too sick for discharge. [42:18] In the announcement, the system's president said it, quote, has become more urgent following the adoption of the House Resolution 1, which will reduce Valley Health's funding by over $80 million annually. [42:32] Mr. Chair, I'd like to introduce into the record these announcements and press articles about the closures of facilities in Virginia. [42:39] Without a bill. [42:40] Without a bill. [42:41] Without a bill. [42:43] The bill. [42:44] These are not hypothetical losses. [42:46] The Medicaid adjustments from last year were actually not scheduled to actually be implemented for a while. [42:53] But these institutions look at the Medicaid percentage of their population and the Medicaid changes, and they realize they just can't make it work. [43:02] And all of these closures in Virginia, the OBGYN ward in Farmville, so you have to travel a lot farther to have kids, primary health clinics, all of them are in rural Virginia. [43:13] And overall, the Virginia Hospital Association indicates that they'll lose $34 billion over 10 years as a result of the OBBA. [43:23] Now that I know that CMS should focus on that or Dr. Oz should focus on that, I'll direct my questions that way. [43:31] But I think it's important for everybody in this room to know if these closures in rural Virginia are happening even before the Medicaid changes get implemented, we're going to see an awful lot more of them. [43:44] Can I reply? [43:45] Please, please. [43:46] First of all, Senator, I think it's an absolute tragedy to lose those hospitals. [43:52] So I know what that does to our rural areas from touring the country, that you're not just denying people access to health care, but it is an economic driver for those communities. [44:02] It's the largest employer, in many cases the highest pay, and businesses will never move there once that facility closed. [44:10] So we're doing everything in our power. [44:12] This is not a problem that was created by the Trump administration, the one big beautiful bill which hasn't even gone into place yet. [44:19] Yeah, but can I just say- [44:20] Yeah, but can I just say- [44:21] Who was? [44:22] I know plenty of those hospitals for the past 10 years. [44:24] Yeah, not in Virginia. [44:26] Interestingly enough, not in Virginia. [44:28] And all three of these cited the reconciliation bill as the reason for the closures. [44:35] I'm glad you walked through the challenges because you're right, it's not just the loss of patient care. [44:40] It's also the loss of jobs, health care jobs. [44:43] And as you point out, once the hospital closes, it's really difficult for businesses to move into these communities because they realize we can't move because there's no health care available. [44:53] So I like the fact that you connect all the dots in this. [44:56] And I'm just urging my colleagues as these Medicaid cuts actually get implemented, I think these closures are going to become even more dramatic and need this committee's attention. [45:06] I yield back, Mr. Chair. [45:09] Senator and Dr. Marshall. [45:11] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [45:12] I just want to remind everybody that Medicaid spending is going to be going up hundreds of billions of dollars over the next several years. [45:21] I think the Trump administration has done more for rural health care and the rural economy than any administration. [45:28] Mr. Secretary, maybe you can just talk a little bit about the monies. [45:31] I mean, real monies, a billion dollars in the Medicaid range, an extra billion dollars we've given to Kansas and another $220 million for the Rural Health Transformation Fund. [45:43] What has the Trump administration done to help fund rural health care? [45:47] Well, first of all, you know, one of the Democratic talking points is that we've cut Medicaid by a trillion dollars, but CBO disagrees with that. [45:56] The reason CBO reported from two weeks ago as the Medicaid will raise, will raise from about $600 billion to $900 billion by 2036, a 47% increase only in Washington is that considered a cut. [46:14] Second of all, the President is making the biggest investment in rural health of any administration in history. [46:20] The Rural Health Transformation Fund gives $50 billion. [46:25] And just to put that in context, over five years, Medicaid, which we've just heard, is closing hospitals. [46:33] Medicaid only gives 7% of its funding to rural hospitals. [46:39] About $20 billion a year. [46:41] We are now increasing that influx of federal funds by 50% per year. [46:47] Ten extra billion dollars a year. [46:49] This gives those hospitals a chance to restructure their, to rebuild their infrastructure, to install telehealth, to remodel themselves. [47:00] As you've pointed out, a hospital cannot exist. [47:04] The business model is failed for a lot of those hospitals. [47:07] Again, 1.6 patients a day. [47:10] You cannot have an overnight hospital and have a business model that works. [47:15] We need to have another model, and we need to help them transition to that. [47:20] And that's one of the things that the Rural Health Transformation Fund will do. [47:24] Yeah. [47:25] Thanks, Secretary Kennedy. [47:26] Let's talk about something near and dear to our hearts. [47:29] You were committed to make America healthy again, and very specifically targeting children and their health. [47:36] Just tell me some of the things that you've done, and where are we going, briefly? [47:40] What's the goals for the next year to help make America healthy again? [47:43] Well, I think, thank you for that question, Senator. [47:46] I think the most, you know, probably the most impactful thing that we've done is change the food pyramid. [47:52] The food pyramid was written by food industry lobbyists for 50 years. [47:56] And it was, it reflected the mercantile impulses of those companies that put fruit loops at the top of the food pyramid. [48:06] We have now done a science-based guideline. [48:09] The best nutritionists in our country, from the biggest universities, came together for almost a year. [48:14] It is science-based guidance. [48:18] And that emphasized protein, vegetables, whole grains. [48:22] That will now revolutionize the dietary culture in this country because we're changing the subsidy program. [48:30] So we give $405 million just from USDA a day. [48:34] Food subsidies to the WICS program, to school lunches, to the Indian Health Services, to SNAP, and all these other programs. [48:43] And they will now change to align with the dietary guidelines. [48:49] The military is now changing the food on all of its bases. [48:54] And so we're going to see massive changes across the culture, and we're going to see more availability of this food. [49:02] And I can explain why that will happen, but I think that's the most important thing. [49:07] Getting rid of the GRAS standards, which we've had bipartisan support on there, on that. [49:13] Senator Saunders has been a leader on that issue. [49:16] We are actually doing it now. [49:18] We have final regulations, again, in the interagency process on GRAS right now. [49:24] We're getting rid of food dyes. [49:26] We're reforming through Operation Stork Speed, infant formula, redoing the nutrients, making sure to test for all the contaminants. [49:37] If I could just get one more question. [49:39] So thank you. [49:40] And I do commend you. [49:41] You've done your job. [49:42] You guys have done great work with transparency, with prior authorization. [49:47] You're targeting to talk about GRAS. [49:49] But I think we need to look in a mirror. [49:52] And so many of my colleagues are saying, what have you done? [49:54] Or not, what have you done? [49:55] But we have bills right before us. [49:57] Our transparency, our price tag bills, 18 bipartisan co-sponsors. [50:01] Our prior authorization bill, 68 co-sponsors. [50:04] Let's get those across the finish line. [50:06] GRAS legislation, our MAHA package. [50:09] We just released a large HSA package of bills. [50:13] All of these would drive down the cost of healthcare, codifying much what you have done as well. [50:17] But Congress needs to, we need to do our job too. [50:20] And quit treading water up here. [50:22] Thank you, Mr. Secretary. [50:23] Thank you, Mr. Secretary. [50:24] Thank you, Senator Marshall. [50:28] Mr. Secretary, before I go to Senator Hassan. [50:31] What was the CDC paper you said attributed improvements in longevity to sewer treatment, for example, not vaccines? [50:41] I'm looking for that on chat GPT and it says it doesn't exist. [50:44] So what is that? [50:45] It's called Guyer. [50:46] The lead author is Guyer. [50:48] G-U-I-E-R. [50:49] There's another one that came out in 1977 that was a required rating in virtually every medical school that says the same thing. [50:59] Who's the author of that one? [51:01] That one was called McKinley and McKinley. [51:03] McKinley and McKinley. [51:05] That one is not CDC according to the judge. [51:08] Well, that's not. [51:09] The Guyer is CDC. [51:10] Thank Johns Hopkins. [51:12] Senator Hassan. [51:13] Well, thanks, Mr. Chair, and good to see you again, Secretary Kennedy. [51:17] Look, I agree with you that all Americans should have access to healthy food. [51:22] However, President Trump has made it far harder for families to afford their groceries. [51:27] Last year, the typical family paid hundreds of dollars more than they did the previous year [51:32] on groceries such as fresh vegetables, fresh fruit, meat, coffee, and dairy. [51:37] And while a few items such as eggs have gotten cheaper this year, other staples like beef continue to reach historic highs under President Trump. [51:45] Do these high grocery prices make it easier or harder for families to eat fresh healthy foods? [51:50] I would say that beef has dropped by 1% in the last quarter. [51:56] Look, beef prices are up 20%. [51:59] Banana prices are up nearly 7% since President Trump took office. [52:03] Cheese prices are up 6%. [52:05] So again, when groceries get more expensive, easier or harder for families to afford the very healthy foods that you want them to eat. [52:11] Well, there's only- you can eat beef, you can eat poultry, you can eat fish, and beef is- the price of beef is dictated by the size of the herd. [52:21] The herd dropped- [52:22] If it's- look, you're not answering, but obviously if the food is more expensive- [52:26] You blame President Trump for something that he didn't do. [52:28] Well, let's- let's take a look at this image. [52:30] Did you post this image in 2024 about grocery prices being too high? [52:35] I don't recall. [52:37] Well, you did post it, that- that's your- that's your handle up there. [52:41] And it's a- and I agree that grocery prices were too high in 2024. [52:45] But under President Trump, they have skyrocketed even further. [52:49] So now, uh, let's go to an updated version of this post. [52:55] Um, will you post this? The most expensive vehicle? [52:58] No, because President Trump actually brought down grocery costs for most of his term. [53:05] I think there's been a raise recently in the price of everything. [53:09] Look, um, families are facing historic prices at the register. [53:15] You don't need to be a Secretary of Health and Human Services to know that. [53:19] You don't need to be a United States Senator to know that. [53:21] The people in New Hampshire, the people across this country know that because they go to grocery stores today. [53:26] And the fact that you don't- you either don't know it or you don't want to admit it just shows how out of touch you and the Trump administration are. [53:34] Now let's go to another issue. [53:36] Earlier this year, President Trump signed an executive order to increase production of the pesticide glyphosate, [53:43] commonly known as Roundup, and to grant immunity from liability to the company that makes it. [53:49] You've said that glyphosate causes cancer. [53:52] You told Senator Schatz yesterday that you still believe that glyphosate causes cancer. [53:58] And you expressed displeasure about the President's glyphosate order. [54:03] And you also told Senator Schatz that the President's reasoning had to do with national security. [54:09] So does President Trump's executive order, does his decision, mean that more Americans are likely to be exposed to this chemical and get cancer? [54:18] No, it doesn't because it doesn't increase the use of glyphosate. [54:24] The President has invested more in trying to transition off of glyphosate than any other President. [54:32] Exactly. When and how did he do that? [54:34] He did an executive order that says increase the production of it for both military, for weapons, and as herbicides. [54:42] And he granted immunity to the huge corporation that produces this. [54:48] A corporation that I believe you once sued and got recovery from because this chemical caused cancer. [54:53] So does President Trump's decision mean that if there's more of this chemical, there's going to be more cancer? Yes or no? [55:02] It's not increasing production. It's increasing domestic production to displace the Chinese production. [55:11] Because 97% of our corn crop is dependent on glyphosate, 98% of our soy crop, and 100% of them is coming from China. [55:18] But yet, here's the thing. When you were running to get the Maha vote, you told people you would stand up to chemical companies. [55:27] You would take carcinogens out of our agricultural system. [55:33] You said that you would get these chemicals out of foods. [55:36] That's what you said you would do to make America healthy again. [55:39] And yet, when push comes to shove and a big corporation, I mean, talk about the status quo here. [55:45] It's Bear Monsanto or something like that. It's the big company. [55:49] And when the President of the United States, rather than trying to work to find alternatives, [55:53] rather than try to get him to limit that executive order, you just stood down instead of standing up. [55:58] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [55:59] If you ask what President Trump has done, he's given me $200 million to help get America off of glyphosate. [56:05] Well, I would look forward to finding out who is doing the research and the science. [56:10] And are you working, and are you working with the EPA to do it? [56:13] They didn't create this problem. You guys helped create this problem over the past 30 years. [56:17] And you just told the big corporation that they don't even have liability for it anymore. [56:21] He is dealing with a national security vulnerability where the Chinese could shut off our food supply in a single day. [56:28] That's a good situation. [56:30] Mr. Chair, I'm going to yield my time, but I'm just going to say this. [56:35] You have now been changing your testimony over time about this. [56:38] I have not changed my testimony. [56:40] You said earlier you were displeased with this. You tried to talk the President out of it. [56:44] I did. [56:45] And now you're just fully supportive of a huge corporation having no liability. Thank you. [56:50] I sued that corporation and got $11 billion from them, and it put them on the edge of bankruptcy. [56:55] Right. And now you're just folding right in front of them. Thank you. [56:58] Senator Tuberville. [56:59] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. [57:03] Thank you for being here. [57:04] Is your microphone on now? [57:05] Thank you very much. [57:06] Is your microphone on? [57:07] Pardon? [57:08] Your microphone. [57:09] Yeah. It should be on. Is it on? [57:10] Yeah. [57:11] My light's on. Is it working? Good. [57:13] Thank you. [57:15] Thank you. [57:16] Seven hearings in the last few weeks? [57:19] My God. [57:20] Can we not let you? [57:21] One week? [57:22] Can we not let you do your job? [57:24] We don't do much up here, so we might as well let you work. [57:27] But I'd like to address something on the food prices. [57:32] I'm on the Ag Committee. [57:33] That's where this ought to be. [57:34] The Biden administration put 150,000 farms out of business when they were in charge. [57:41] 150,000. [57:42] We're not going to have any damn food if we don't watch it, and we better back our farmers [57:46] and do everything we possibly can because that trash that we get out of Brazil and Asia [57:52] that we're eating ain't maha. [57:54] I promise you that. [57:55] So thank you for what you're doing. [57:56] You're a hero in my state because the kids are starting to understand the food pyramid, [58:02] and you've pushed it, and you've made it work. [58:06] Again, I came from a former business that tried to eat right with supplements and working [58:12] out and all those, but it has caught fire, and thank you for what you're doing, and continue [58:17] to do what you're doing, and we'll make progress in this. [58:21] One thing I want to ask you is I see where in our country we have 10,000 ingredients that [58:27] we can use in food, but in Europe they only use 400 or 500 food ingredients. [58:32] Could you explain that? [58:33] Yeah, and thank you for that, Coach. [58:35] And this is something, again, Senator Sanders has shown leadership on. [58:40] Congress has talked about this many years. [58:43] I actually got it done. [58:45] It's the GRAS standard, generally recognized as safe. [58:48] It's a loophole that was added in 1948 to the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act to exclude [58:55] from the necessity of testing foods that were traditionally used like vinegars, salts, [59:02] wheat, et cetera. [59:03] The food industry, because FDA has been captured for 50 years, hijacked that and put every new [59:10] lab-created monstrosity through so it doesn't have to be tested. [59:15] We have 10,000 ingredients in our country. [59:18] We don't, FDA doesn't even know what they are. [59:21] We have no list of them anywhere. [59:23] None of them have been adequately tested. [59:25] And they have 400 in Europe. [59:29] And we're trying to close that loophole now so that, and then go back. [59:35] And we already have the 38 most worst of those chemicals under review. [59:40] And we're going to get rid of the bad ones one at a time. [59:44] Thank you. [59:45] I'm going to say something about Senator Cain earlier talked about Medicare, Medicaid. [59:51] You know, in my state, it's going to be a lot like his state. [59:55] You know, the wage index is killing us. [59:58] Absolutely. [59:59] But we can only change it through Congress. [1:00:01] You know, it's been that way for 40 years. [1:00:03] And we struggle to keep our hospitals open. [1:00:06] It's the simple fact that we're considered a low-wage state. [1:00:09] But don't you think things change in a 40-year period? [1:00:12] We've really grown. [1:00:14] Do you agree that Congress needs to fix this? [1:00:17] They absolutely need to fix it. [1:00:19] You know, Sheldon Whitehouse was here the last hearing talking about people in his state, [1:00:25] doctors in his state get 20% less than a doctor right across the border in Massachusetts or Connecticut. [1:00:32] But the rural areas are the areas that are suffering the worst. [1:00:36] I can't change it because of the Social Security Act. [1:00:39] But we need to change it or we're going to lose all these rural hospitals. [1:00:43] Thank you. [1:00:44] And food dyes, petroleum-based synthetic food dyes. [1:00:47] Thank you for what you're doing. [1:00:48] Thank you. [1:00:49] Thank you. [1:00:50] And we just need to keep that momentum going. [1:00:52] It's so important. [1:00:54] There's no reason we should be using those dyes in our food. [1:00:58] And just say a few words about psychedelic treatments for PTSD. [1:01:03] Thank you and President Trump for what you're doing for veterans. [1:01:07] It's worked. [1:01:08] It's worked in our state. [1:01:09] And thank you for agreeing to look into it and make it happen more and more. [1:01:14] Could you say something about psychedelics? [1:01:16] Well, the chair of the Department of Johns Hopkins, Ibogaine specifically, is the most promising treatment or depression and PTSD that anybody's ever seen. [1:01:32] And right now, veterans who have served this country, who have come back from deployment with severe PTSD and who are killing themselves 23 a day, they're having to go down to Mexico to get this treatment. [1:01:50] We don't know much about doses. [1:01:53] We don't know much about screening. [1:01:56] We don't know much about the protocols. [1:01:58] We need to get this promising treatment here. [1:02:01] We need to do the proper studies and make it available to these vets. [1:02:05] And we're doing that right away. [1:02:06] Thank you. [1:02:07] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:02:08] Senator Blunt, Rochester. [1:02:12] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:02:14] The United States first became measles free over 25 years ago, a quarter of a century. [1:02:21] We have maintained that status in every year since until you became secretary. [1:02:30] A simple yes or no. [1:02:31] Does the president know there is a historic measles surge occurring nationwide? [1:02:36] You want me to answer a real answer now? [1:02:38] The question is just a very simple question. [1:02:40] You want a grandstand. [1:02:41] You're going to get your opportunity. [1:02:42] You want a grandstand. [1:02:43] Can you answer the question? [1:02:44] I can answer that question. [1:02:45] Yes or no. [1:02:46] I didn't cause measles. [1:02:47] It started before I came in. [1:02:49] Sir, I'm giving you the opportunity to answer the question. [1:02:54] Mr. Chairman, can I get my time back from this rudeness? [1:03:00] Mr. Chairman? [1:03:02] I'm sorry. [1:03:03] I was asking, can I get my time back from him interrupting? [1:03:06] Yes. [1:03:07] A simple yes or no question. [1:03:09] Does the president know there is a historic measles surge occurring nationwide? [1:03:14] I'm sure he does. [1:03:16] You're sure he does? [1:03:18] Remarkably, Ralph Abraham, your former CDC principal deputy director, said that losing our measles-free [1:03:26] status is not really significant and just the cost of doing business with our borders. [1:03:34] Another simple yes or no. [1:03:36] Does the president think this is not a significant issue? [1:03:41] Losing our measles elimination status? [1:03:44] Yes. [1:03:45] Most of the countries are losing that. [1:03:48] Does he think it's a significant problem? [1:03:50] He doesn't think it's a good development. [1:03:52] It's happening all over the world. [1:03:54] Have you talked to him about it? [1:03:55] About measles? [1:03:56] About the outbreaks? [1:03:58] About the crisis? [1:04:00] Yeah, I have. [1:04:01] Okay, so yes or no, he does know it's a problem? [1:04:05] Yes. [1:04:06] According to the Washington Post, the president makes public statements about his plans for [1:04:11] the new golden ballroom at a pace that rivals and even exceeds the mentions of some [1:04:16] major policy priorities. [1:04:19] He talks publicly about the ballroom one out of every three days. [1:04:23] And so I have a question. [1:04:26] Do you know how many times the president has spoken about the measles epidemic? [1:04:30] I don't count that. [1:04:32] We don't keep track of that data at the CDC yet. [1:04:36] So as head of our nation's head health agency, have you advised the president to sound the [1:04:43] alarm and encourage Americans to obtain the measles vaccine? [1:04:47] Am I going to get a question and a chance to answer this? [1:04:50] That was a question for you. [1:04:53] Excuse me? [1:04:54] The question was, have you alerted the president to sound the alarm? [1:04:59] You're the head of HHS, the leading health agency in our country. [1:05:03] That's my job and we do it. [1:05:04] So yes or no? [1:05:06] It's my job, not the president's job. [1:05:08] And I do my job. [1:05:09] I'm concerned about it. [1:05:12] I've watched a lot of these hearings. [1:05:13] You blame the Mennonites, you blame immigrants, you blame the globe. [1:05:19] We've been part of the globe and still we are in this situation. [1:05:25] Do you take any responsibility in your role for the situation that we are in with this measles epidemic? [1:05:35] As I said, the measles epidemic began before I came into office. [1:05:39] I'm going to take that as a no. [1:05:41] The Pan American Health Organization was scheduled to review our measles free status on April 13th. [1:05:47] Did your department request to delay this independent international review of our measles elimination status to November after the election? [1:05:54] No. [1:05:55] So you did not request it. [1:05:58] You had no knowledge of the request. [1:06:00] You had no communication with the White House. [1:06:02] Thank you. [1:06:05] It's awfully convenient that we're postponing it until after November when people won't have the opportunity to know our measles status. [1:06:13] I would just say this. [1:06:15] There has been a lot in terms of polling on trust. [1:06:19] You've talked a lot about trust. [1:06:21] The people don't trust you. [1:06:23] And I would ask, what is different from all these other years? [1:06:28] You are. [1:06:29] If the American people don't trust you, which most of the polls show, I don't know why the president should trust you either. [1:06:38] I yield back. [1:06:39] Senator Murkowski. [1:06:41] Mr. Chairman, thank you. [1:06:46] Secretary, welcome back to the committee. [1:06:48] You and I have had many opportunities to talk about IHS funding, and I appreciate your trip to Alaska last year. [1:06:58] Very targeted on what we are doing with regards to health care for Alaska Natives, as well as American Indians, Native Hawaiians. [1:07:07] So I appreciate what we're seeing with the advanced appropriations for IHS in the budget. [1:07:13] This really helps with providing certainty to our tribal health systems. [1:07:19] So that's a good. [1:07:21] Another good is the billion-dollar increase, including critical investments in IHS health, IT, and the hospital oversight. [1:07:28] So good there. [1:07:30] Where I do have concerns is the reduction that we're seeing in the sanitation facilities construction account. [1:07:38] This is an 87% cut. [1:07:41] And you have had an opportunity on your visits to Alaska to see what it means when you have communities that don't have running water, [1:07:50] that don't have clean drinking water, that don't have sanitation facilities, and are using honey buckets. [1:07:57] So we've made some good headway under the infrastructure law, but that was intended to supplement, not supplant, our annual appropriations. [1:08:06] So I just want to make sure that you are committing on behalf of your folks within IHS to maintain a key eye on funding for tribal sanitation facilities construction. [1:08:25] We're going to work, I'm certainly going to work on my side on the appropriations committee, but also as chairman of the Indian Affairs, [1:08:31] to make sure that we don't go backwards on these important investments in basic sanitation for people in remote areas. [1:08:41] Absolutely. [1:08:42] You know, we had cuts across the department. [1:08:46] IHS was protected from those cuts. [1:08:49] They received a billion dollars for infrastructure. [1:08:53] Nobody else, I don't know, across the government has received that, except maybe the Defense Department. [1:08:58] I've made more visits to Indian Country than any HHS Secretary in history. [1:09:03] And if, you know, we don't like to make any of these cuts, it's up to Congress ultimately. [1:09:10] If you appropriate the money, I of course will spend it. [1:09:14] Well, and know that we want to work with you to make wise investments. [1:09:17] But again, when we think about those areas where we see just really dispiriting health outcomes in rural areas, [1:09:27] so much of it can be traced back to they don't have access to basic clean water and sanitation. [1:09:33] So we want to work with you on that. [1:09:35] Last year I had a chance to raise with you the LIHEAP program, the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program. [1:09:42] We have had a pretty tough winter. [1:09:44] I was in Fairbanks over the weekend and I was reminded that they had 152 consecutive days of temperatures below zero. [1:09:54] 152 is a long time to be cold. [1:09:57] And so this is where I look at LIHEAP and it's not just kind of a nice-to-have, but for so many it was very imperative. [1:10:05] So I'm worried again that LIHEAP funding is not made a priority. [1:10:11] Last April you eliminated all staff assigned to administer LIHEAP. [1:10:16] It's my understanding now that responsibility for administering the entire program rests with a single staff member. [1:10:23] I really hope that that is not accurate, but we need to know that not only these levels of important support are going to continue, [1:10:33] but that there is adequate staffing to help address this. [1:10:38] And I think particularly, it's not just cold winters that we faced, but now all of our families are seeing increased prices when it comes to home heating fuel. [1:10:50] So many of our communities are diesel-powered communities and the price of diesel is going to be shockingly high when that first spring barge comes in June. [1:10:59] So I'm just asking for your help once again. [1:11:02] I know you understand the priority of LIHEAP, but I'm putting it back on your radar. [1:11:06] And I spent all 90% of the money that I could spend. [1:11:11] We've now gotten the last 10% released and we will spend that. [1:11:16] So we have adequate staffing to do that and you know how I feel about that program. [1:11:21] Well again, I'm just putting it back on your radar. [1:11:24] I've got 20 seconds to just raise my concerns about the programs focused on domestic violence and sexual assault program. [1:11:35] You have combined into a single program under the Administration for Healthy America. [1:11:41] This is the DELTA program and the RPE, the Rape Prevention and Education. [1:11:45] I'm concerned that the programs aren't interchangeable. [1:11:49] They serve distinct populations, different models administered through fundamentally different structures, [1:11:53] but I'm concerned that we're looking at nearly half the funding for programs that have a really proven record of improving public safety, [1:12:01] reducing crime, and protecting victims of domestic violence and sexual assault. [1:12:06] So again, I know it's a priority of yours, certainly a priority of mine that we have effective tools when we're talking about prevention of domestic and sexual violence. [1:12:16] Thank you, Senator. [1:12:17] Thank you. [1:12:18] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:12:19] Mr. Chairman. [1:12:21] Yes, and just speaking as a doctor, just to close the conversation, thank you for giving Geier's name. [1:12:26] I've looked up the article. [1:12:28] The quote is, thus vaccination does not account for the impressive declines in mortality seen in the first half of last century. [1:12:35] The reductions in vaccine-preventable diseases, however, are impressive, condensed. [1:12:41] In the early 1920s, there are about 500 to about a half a million annual cases before the introduction of vaccine, [1:12:48] of the measles vaccine in the 60s. [1:12:50] Because of vaccines, these deaths have been virtually eliminated. [1:12:53] So that's the complete context. [1:12:55] I was talking about mortality, Senator. [1:12:57] That's what they're saying. [1:12:58] The deaths have been virtually eliminated. [1:13:00] Okay. [1:13:01] Senator Baldwin. [1:13:02] Senator Baldwin. [1:13:03] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:13:04] And thank you, Mr. Secretary, for being here to answer our questions in your marathon hearing schedule here. [1:13:13] Mr. Secretary, premiums for working families who purchase their health insurance through the Affordable Care Act marketplaces [1:13:22] have in many cases doubled, tripled, even quadrupled this year because the administration and Republicans in Congress refused to extend enhanced premium tax credits. [1:13:35] With the higher costs, people are literally choosing between rent, groceries, gas, and their health insurance. [1:13:44] And please, if you don't know the answer, feel free to say this, but I'm wondering how closely you're watching this. [1:13:51] Secretary Kennedy, the tax cut expired in December. [1:13:54] Do you know how many Americans have lost their health insurance through the Affordable Care Act marketplace this year? [1:14:02] I know that 87% of the advanced tax credits are still there. [1:14:09] So 87% of the people who are on Obamacare are still getting their insurance for under $96 a year. [1:14:17] Fifty-four percent. [1:14:18] I'm inquiring. [1:14:19] Do you know how many people have lost their health insurance as a consequence? [1:14:24] Well, it would be the top 13% then. [1:14:26] Okay. [1:14:27] The answer is 1.3 million. [1:14:30] And I wouldn't expect you to know Wisconsin figures, but it's 22,000 in the state of Wisconsin. [1:14:37] And another 2 million were forced to buy plans with higher deductibles to stay insured, which [1:14:44] may cost them more money in out-of-pocket costs in the long run. [1:14:50] Do you know what percentage of individuals were unable to pay their health insurance premiums [1:15:01] on the Affordable Care Act marketplace in the month of January after the enhanced premium tax credits expired? [1:15:10] No. [1:15:11] I mean, I know that the Democrats, when they controlled... [1:15:14] Oh, so you don't know. [1:15:15] I'll just furnish that information. [1:15:18] According to Wall Street Journal reporting, they indicated that about 14% of enrollees, which is a significant increase from past years, [1:15:28] lost their, or were unable to pay their January health insurance premiums. [1:15:36] In some states, it was up to a quarter of all enrollees, a shocking figure. [1:15:43] Do you know how much overall enrollment is expected to decline? [1:15:51] No. [1:15:54] I know that the last time we looked at it, it was flat, except for the 1.5 million people [1:16:00] who were cheating. [1:16:06] So 1.5 million who were committing fraud. [1:16:10] If you deduct that number, the enrollment was flat. [1:16:13] But I don't know how it will be in the interest. [1:16:15] Right. I'm talking about the Affordable Care Act marketplace participation. [1:16:19] Overall enrollment is expected to decline by up to 26%. [1:16:25] And this is likely going to be, in part, healthier enrollees who choose not to pay. [1:16:36] Raising the likelihood that because sicker or unhealthier enrollees will continue to figure out a way to keep their insurance, [1:16:44] that there'll be even higher premiums for individuals who need coverage. [1:16:53] Your department has also proposed significant changes to the Affordable Care Act plans for 2027, [1:17:02] which would increase out-of-pocket costs and introduce more junk insurance and raise deductibles for working families. [1:17:11] The rule also adds millions of hours in red tape paperwork to the enrollment process. [1:17:19] Do you know how many Americans your department estimates would lose their health coverage under your proposed rule? [1:17:28] I think it's, you know, under the ACA rule? [1:17:35] Yeah. [1:17:36] I can't tell you the exact number. [1:17:39] It's 2 million Americans, Mr. Secretary, and that would be on top. [1:17:43] That's why it's important to do low premium plans to give people some kind of access to better health insurance at lower costs. [1:17:53] So, 2 million that would lose their health insurance due to the rules that you're proposing, [1:18:00] and that would be on top of the 15 million Americans projected to lose coverage thanks to the provisions in the Big Ugly Bill [1:18:09] and the combination of that with the ending of the enhanced premium tax credits. [1:18:15] Now, yesterday, in our Labor H subcommittee hearing... [1:18:22] Oh, I'm sorry. [1:18:23] Secretary Ken... [1:18:24] I sleep at the wheel. [1:18:25] You're over your time. [1:18:26] I will submit these for the... [1:18:29] In association with the question that I could not answer, I did want to have a submission for the record. [1:18:34] I would ask unanimous consent, and then I will include a reference to those two documents in my question that I submit for the record. [1:18:41] Thank you, Senator. [1:18:42] Thank you. [1:18:43] Secretary, thank you so much for taking time to be here. [1:18:53] We appreciate it. [1:18:55] And thank you, Chairman Cassidy, for holding this hearing this afternoon. [1:19:00] I think it's great that you're... [1:19:02] Sure. [1:19:04] Better? [1:19:05] Yeah. [1:19:06] I think it's great that you're here and taking on the tough questions and showing the American people how you're thinking outside the box [1:19:12] and bucking up against the status quo to try and change the really tragic and sad trajectory we're on in terms of health in this country. [1:19:19] It takes a lot of guts to do that, and we appreciate it. [1:19:23] And I think talking about where you're wanting to put resources is always a good thing. [1:19:26] So thank you very much. [1:19:27] I think the most important thing that you are doing is putting in the work, rolling up your sleeves, and trying to reverse course on some of the horrible statistics that, quite frankly, American is paying attention to more now than they ever have. [1:19:42] And I think that has a lot to do with you at the helm. [1:19:46] Thirty percent of our population is obese. [1:19:48] We rank highest overall in cancer burden, and we're seeing cancer rates skyrocketing, especially among our youth. [1:19:55] We have over half a million cases of people with Alzheimer's. [1:19:59] That's expected to go up to a million in the next few years. [1:20:04] In my state and certainly across the country, we suffer severely. [1:20:09] People suffer severely from the oppression of chronic disease, and no one really wanted to look at the root cause of that critically within government until you started talking about it. [1:20:21] You took the helm and started fostering, allowing, promoting scientific debate, true debate, and that's important in this country. [1:20:34] I think during the COVID years that became very apparent. [1:20:39] You said it best in your testimony, nutrition is the bedrock of health. [1:20:45] As a mom that truly wants to make America healthy again, I couldn't agree more. [1:20:52] And I'm glad that we're having these hearings. [1:20:54] And I wasn't surprised when you chose Miami, Florida as the place where you announced that you were going to engage hospitals and require that they actually serve nutritious food. [1:21:05] I will never forget the time I was in the hospital with one of my parents and they came in and I was asking what they should eat, what they shouldn't eat of the doctor. [1:21:16] And they looked at the plate of food and they're like, none of this, none of this. [1:21:20] And that's exactly why we were in the hospital. [1:21:22] I thought that was very strange. [1:21:24] But so many Floridians end up in the hospital because they've had a lifelong diet of ultra processed, polluted food. [1:21:31] And so how can we hope to heal people in a medical setting when the food we're serving them is nutrient deficient, infused with microplastics, pumped full of added sugar, artificial dyes. [1:21:41] We know that so much of this can contribute to weakening the immune system, can contribute to cancer. [1:21:49] So many of our schools aren't even serving food that meets the highest standard, certainly what you would call, I guess, the Maha standards. [1:21:57] Anywhere between 30 and 60 percent of a child's nutrition comes from school meals. [1:22:01] So we have to address that. [1:22:03] We all want our children eating healthy, nutritious meals. [1:22:06] And certainly for their long term, lifetime health, that's going to be important. [1:22:11] Prior to your swearing in, the overwhelming majority of medical students received no nutrition education. [1:22:17] None. [1:22:18] That's insane. [1:22:20] That is insane. [1:22:22] When you're looking at these, this chronic disease and the rates that we're facing. [1:22:27] Less than one percent of lecture hours in medical schools were dedicated to this fundamental part of health. [1:22:33] Just last month, you secured historic agreements with well over 50 of the top medical schools in America to require comprehensive nutrition education, [1:22:40] giving our future health care providers the tools necessary to attack chronic disease at the most fundamental level. [1:22:46] I'm so proud six Florida schools were part of this agreement and they are very excited that HHS has invested $5 million to support the integration of this curriculum. [1:22:56] So all in all, before you came along and thought to do these things and pushed for these things, we expected to keep working within the status quo and expecting our chronic disease rates to change. [1:23:10] So thank goodness you came along. [1:23:17] Florida wants to be ground zero for the fight for nutrition. [1:23:22] I know our moms want that. [1:23:23] I'm part of that caucus. [1:23:25] And you and your team have grabbed the bull by the horns. [1:23:28] You've partnered with industry. [1:23:29] You're standing strong for our kids and for Americans. [1:23:33] How transformative do you think that HHS's new nutrition guidelines combined with new nutrition education requirements for medical students will be for America? [1:23:43] You know, 80% of young doctors today say that they feel inadequate to offer nutritional advice. [1:23:56] And you have most of our, 80% of our, or 90% of our healthcare costs are chronic disease that are diet induced. [1:24:05] Upwards of 70% of type 2 diabetes can be cured just by changing diet or vastly improved. [1:24:15] And a doctor should know that, that there's other things other than the pharmacopoeia to turn to. [1:24:20] You can have dietary changes and lifestyle changes that save your life without getting addicted to a lifetime of pharmaceutical interventions. [1:24:31] I see that I have blown past my time. [1:24:33] So thank you very much, Secretary. [1:24:38] The information of senators will take a short break at 3.30. [1:24:41] At that point, I'll ask our guests in the audience to remain seated until the secretary steps out. [1:24:45] But that'll be at the bottom of the hour. [1:24:47] And with that, Senator Murray. [1:24:49] Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and Secretary Kennedy. [1:24:52] You were before appropriations yesterday and I asked you about the insanely bloated military budget that we are seeing from the White House this year. [1:25:00] At the same time, the president isn't doing anything to invest in our healthcare here at home. [1:25:05] And now we have learned he's not, not even investing in our troops' health. [1:25:10] Secretary Haigseth announced that the U.S. military will no longer require American troops to get the flu vaccine. [1:25:17] My own colleague, Senator Wicker, called it a mistake and pointed to his own experience, noting, quote, [1:25:24] I dutifully took my flu shot every year. [1:25:27] As a whole, it made for a healthier and flu-free force. [1:25:31] Secretary Kennedy, is CDC or any agency at HHS ready and able to detect or monitor localized flu outbreaks in our military as a result of this new, what I think is a backwards policy? [1:25:45] Secretary Haigseth was just recognizing that these soldiers are being sent over to fight for our freedoms and that they should have some freedom, too. [1:25:53] The flu shot is an intervention that is often ineffective, has a 20% efficacy rate. [1:26:01] There are studies that show that getting a flu shot actually increases the chance of a non-flu infection. [1:26:11] Well, you and I may differ on that, but my question to you wasn't about that. [1:26:15] My question to you is HHS or CDC, either one, now going to monitor any flu outbreaks on our military ships or? [1:26:26] I don't know if there is any program specifically for the military, but we definitely monitor flu outbreaks. [1:26:33] Well, this was a very old policy. [1:26:35] It wasn't based in science. [1:26:36] It was based in history. [1:26:37] Well, that is a great answer is improving the food and all of the military. [1:26:42] Mr. Secretary, if I can finish, the 1918 pandemic actually sickened 40% of our service members and killed 20,000 soldiers. [1:26:51] If you have a submarine full of people who we are counting on and a virus goes flying through it, we don't have a ready military. [1:26:59] You're comparing the Spanish flu. [1:27:01] I am just stating that if you have our military have a pandemic or flu or anything fly through them, they are not ready. [1:27:11] So my question to you was not about that, you and I are going to disagree. [1:27:16] Mr. Secretary, it is my time. [1:27:17] I'm asking you simply, and you didn't answer me, whether or not we were going to monitor that to make sure that we do have troops ready in these very critical times. [1:27:29] But let me go on here because I just have a few minutes left. [1:27:32] Yesterday when we talked, you went on a very long tangent about how you were just canceling WOKE grants. [1:27:39] But I want to, for the record, put the numbers here. [1:27:42] You canceled 17, at least 17, maternal health grants, $4 million, because apparently any research involving women is WOKE. [1:27:51] You canceled 58 grants for vaccine research, $94 million, 59 for Alzheimer's research, that was $33 million, [1:28:00] and a whopping 108 cancer research grants, $29 million worth. [1:28:07] I just have to say, cancer is not WOKE, neither is Alzheimer's, or women who die in childbirth. [1:28:12] These are deadly issues. [1:28:14] They deserve serious research. [1:28:17] I am appalled that it was tossed in the shredder. [1:28:20] And meanwhile, as I said, we're shoveling money on war spending. [1:28:24] So I just want to be clear that the budget that was sent to us is not a MAGA budget. [1:28:29] It's not a MAHA budget. [1:28:30] It is a war budget. [1:28:31] No one can call it anything other than that. [1:28:34] Why on earth would we take from researchers in rural healthcare, maternal healthcare? [1:28:40] You justify these cuts because of a need to reduce the debt yesterday? [1:28:44] This budget actually proposes to increase the debt for more war. [1:28:50] So we're shoveling more money at defense contractors, but we're slashing NIH by more than $5 billion. [1:28:58] Fewer patients getting lifesaving treatment. [1:29:01] Cutting CDC by a third so we can't respond to dangerous outbreaks. [1:29:06] Slashing investments in mental health and addiction treatment. [1:29:09] People will fall through the cracks. [1:29:12] And not investing in childcare. [1:29:14] Families will have to decide between childcare and healthcare and putting food on the table. [1:29:18] So I know my time's almost up. [1:29:20] And Mr. Chairman, for the record, I am concerned about the promises that have been broken. [1:29:26] And I have some items that I do want to submit for the record. [1:29:30] I ask unanimous consent to include these articles. [1:29:34] RFK Jr. breaks promise to senators. [1:29:37] Guts CDC vaccine panel of independent experts. [1:29:41] RFK Jr. breaks his promise about the CDC on vaccines and autism. [1:29:47] Firing of CDC's vaccine advisors put spotlight on RFK Jr.'s promises to Cassidy. [1:29:53] I have one that is titled, [1:29:55] RFK Jr. made promises in order to become a health secretary. [1:29:58] He has broken many of them. [1:30:00] Bill Cassidy extracted a promise from RFK Jr. [1:30:06] Now he sees what that promise is worth. [1:30:08] Two more Republican senators who voted for RFK is airing his concerns. [1:30:13] Too late now. [1:30:14] And an article that is entitled, [1:30:16] GOP senator refuses to face reality about RFK Jr. after being lied to. [1:30:21] I yield that. [1:30:22] Without objection, they're submitted. [1:30:24] Thank you. [1:30:26] Senator Armstrong. [1:30:30] Over here. [1:30:31] Good afternoon. [1:30:32] Thank you for being here. [1:30:33] And, you know, I'm a very new guy, so I'm somewhat naive about this process. [1:30:39] So I actually have questions about the future and what we can do on a forward-looking basis to improve things. [1:30:45] And I want to, first of all, just say thanks for the bold vision. [1:30:50] I come from business and I know it takes a lot of energy and conviction to actually bring change, [1:30:56] especially in an organization like a big federal government. [1:30:59] So I just want to tell you thanks for your commitment to bringing very significant reforms and a bold vision for the future. [1:31:05] I also want to say thanks, being from Oklahoma, I want to say thanks and to remind you how very important it is to make sure that we're not forgetting about the rural areas and the tribal areas that so desperately need to be thought about when we think about health in our country. [1:31:20] But my question really goes to thinking about drug approval and AI. [1:31:28] It's very obvious to me that AI is going to speed up the ability to develop more and more solutions, whether it's drugs, but things that the FDA is going to need to approve. [1:31:40] And I noticed that you had the $2 million in the budget for AI, but I'm wondering about what you think in the future can be done within the department to really accelerate the ability to approve and work in parallel with the drug development. [1:31:59] Senator, thank you for that question. [1:32:01] We've done more, I think, than any agency in government, maybe with the exception of the CIA and the Intelligence Department to drive AI into all of our functions. [1:32:13] At FDA today, we have a voluntary program called Elson. [1:32:18] Ninety percent of the people are using it, and we've used it to dramatically shorten the approval time for drugs. [1:32:28] The review of the final application normally takes 60 days. [1:32:35] We've compressed that now to about two hours. [1:32:38] And as a result of that, we just approved two cancer drugs, one in 54 days and one in 45 days. [1:32:46] AI is going to revolutionize medicine, and it may at some point make FDA even irrelevant. [1:32:53] And it's going to give us the capacity to develop new drugs, personalized medicine for every citizen. [1:33:02] You know, I just was reading about a dog that had cancer, and his owner used AI to develop a personalized treatment that cured the cancer. [1:33:15] We're going to see that now in medicine, across medicine, and we're very excited about it. [1:33:21] AI is very dangerous, potentially, but also has the capacity to bring really great things to humanity, particularly in the realm of human health. [1:33:31] Great. Thank you very much. [1:33:32] Next question I had was around, I noticed that you're consolidating for the big departments there, [1:33:40] and curious about how you think things will operate in the future and the advantages of some of the consolidations that you're looking to do. [1:33:48] Well, we're reorganizing. [1:33:50] I mean, we've been working for a year to figure out a sensible way to reorganize the department. [1:34:02] And I'm just going to give you an example of what we had when I came in. [1:34:12] We had nine separate offices for women's health, eight separate offices for minority health, 27 separate HIV programs, 59 behavioral health programs, [1:34:22] 40 separate opioid programs, 42 maternal health programs, 41 chief information officers, 100 communications offices, 40 procurement departments, [1:34:34] and dozens of IT departments, none of them talking to each other. [1:34:38] And so it was a target-rich environment for reorganization to streamline the agency and make it more efficient. [1:34:46] We've developed proposals for doing just that, and those proposals we are not going to do unilaterally. [1:34:54] You're going to submit them to Congress, and hopefully Congress will agree that that's a sensible way to reorganize. [1:35:00] Great. Well, thank you very much for the courage and the energy that it takes to take on all that. [1:35:05] So very appreciative, and I yield my time. [1:35:07] We will now recess for a short break. [1:35:10] Again, I ask the audience to remain seated while the secretary departs. [1:35:14] I imagine this will take about five minutes. [1:35:16] The committee stands in brief recess. [1:39:05] They take a picture of us. [1:39:07] Yeah. [1:39:08] Yeah. [1:39:09] Just don't be in the space of us. [1:39:12] Oh, no, no, no, no. [1:39:13] I just want to make sure I... [1:39:17] Oh, yeah. [1:39:22] Yeah, as long as you're not involved, we're taking a picture of us. [1:39:25] Okay. [1:39:26] I'm sure we deal with stuff a lot. [1:39:33] You guys as well, so... [1:39:36] A little bit. [1:39:37] A little bit, yeah. [1:39:38] A little bit, yeah. [1:39:39] A little bit, yeah. [1:39:40] A little bit, yeah. [1:39:58] Okay. [1:39:59] What's your name? [1:40:00] What's your name? [1:40:03] What's your name? [1:40:04] Yeah, what's your name? [1:40:05] Larry. [1:40:06] Larry. [1:40:07] Larry? [1:40:08] Yeah. [1:40:09] I can't complain. [1:40:11] It's okay. [1:40:14] The committee will please come to order. [1:41:46] Senator Hickenlooper. [1:41:47] Thank you. [1:41:50] And I want to... [1:41:51] Mr. Chair, I'd like to ask you in unanimous consent to enter into the record a letter signed [1:41:57] by 155 pediatricians in Colorado from all parts of the state expressing their grave concerns [1:42:04] about the vaccine hesitancy and the implications that has on future health of Colorado kids. [1:42:10] Without objection. [1:42:11] So, Secretary Kennedy, measles cases are increasing. [1:42:18] I know that it's been raised many times. [1:42:21] We've seen eight... [1:42:22] In Colorado this year, 18 times the number of measles cases that we used to see. [1:42:28] All but one this year were unvaccinated individuals. [1:42:33] And that one only got one shot instead of the two. [1:42:37] Between February and March of this year, state and local public health officials in Colorado [1:42:42] spent nearly half a million dollars to respond to 10 measles cases impacting two schools in Broomfield. [1:42:49] And I thought I'd just go through that in Adams County. [1:42:53] Responding to an outbreak of only five cases required approximately 40 caseworkers and contact tracers [1:42:59] working 14 hours a day because there's a huge sense of urgency here. [1:43:03] Seven days a week for more than two weeks. [1:43:05] The workers had to contact more than 600 people that may have been exposed. [1:43:10] And these contact workers interviewed 284 people by phone. [1:43:15] Public health workers had to access every single contact for immunization status. [1:43:20] They had to ask, had you been vaccinated? [1:43:22] And they needed to... [1:43:23] Those who hadn't been vaccinated needed to be quarantined for 21 days. [1:43:27] Additional expense, I'm not including here. [1:43:29] They had to prioritize, obviously, for infants under one. [1:43:33] You look at the outbreaks that we're seeing in 2025. [1:43:37] We had 48 outbreaks across 45 states. [1:43:39] 2026, we had 19 outbreaks across 33 states. [1:43:44] I think this work, the contact tracing, keeping people isolated, it's very onerous to local governments. [1:43:53] And President Trump's cuts to public health funding and healthcare coverage and research mean that there isn't... [1:44:00] Really, there isn't any money left. [1:44:02] So, I think that we have to ask, where is the money going to come from to clean up all that cost to local government? [1:44:11] As a former mayor, that's something that concerns me. [1:44:16] The healthcare system overall has seen about roughly a trillion dollars in cuts. [1:44:23] Just the budget next year shows further cuts. [1:44:27] So, how do you suggest to us, that the local governments and state governments, you know, build back and find those resources? [1:44:38] Senator, we've lost, I think, three Americans to measles in 20 years. [1:44:43] We lose 2 million people, Americans, to chronic disease every year. [1:44:48] Do you know what the cost of that is? [1:44:51] 4.3 trillion dollars a year. [1:44:54] I totally get it. [1:44:55] I think we can do two things at once, though. [1:44:57] I'm not sure that's... [1:44:58] Those are mutually... [1:44:59] Of course, we need to do two things at once. [1:45:01] But we also need to do kind of adequate risk assessments. [1:45:06] The big enemy of our country is chronic disease. [1:45:10] It's killing 3 million of us a year. [1:45:11] It's bankrupting our country. [1:45:12] I'm not... [1:45:13] I'm not... [1:45:14] I am on your side on that. [1:45:16] I agree that healthcare, that a healthy diet and taking charge of our own health early on is the best pharmaceutical we've got. [1:45:25] I agree with all that. [1:45:26] This is separate from that and a separate subset. [1:45:31] I'm also partial to mRNA vaccines, especially. [1:45:37] Recently, I'm sure you've seen the news that it's a promising pathway for people with... [1:45:44] Or patients with pancreatic cancer. [1:45:46] As you know, pancreatic cancer is one of the great killers, one of the deadliest forms of cancer. [1:45:52] Less than 13% of the patients with pancreatic cancer last over five years. [1:45:57] The patients in this trial with mRNA are still alive six years later, right? [1:46:03] So, you know, less than 13% survive beyond five years. [1:46:07] In this trial, they're all alive after six years later. [1:46:10] This is exciting for the Scientific Research Committee community and the promise of RNA research. [1:46:16] But we still feel a hostility to mRNA technology and the research. [1:46:23] The termination of 22 projects with $500 million that had focused on mRNA. [1:46:28] In your announcement of counseling the projects, you quoted that HHS would shift towards safer, broader vaccine platforms. [1:46:36] But again, when you're looking at cancer and canceling projects that are so promising for these certain types of cancer, [1:46:44] aren't you worried about throwing the baby out with the bathwater? [1:46:49] Senator, I've authorized $500 million now for cancer vaccines. [1:46:54] Oh, and I think mRNA is a promising technology for cancer vaccines. [1:46:59] I terminated the COVID vaccines because they didn't make any sense. [1:47:04] COVID is gone and the mRNA vaccines have a limited efficacy against respiratory illnesses. [1:47:12] And if they had a good efficacy, the industry would pay for them. [1:47:17] They made $100 billion on the COVID vaccine. [1:47:20] Why are we paying for vaccines that they don't believe are going to work? [1:47:25] Because we know they're not going to work. [1:47:27] With mRNA technology is very, very promising in certain areas like pancreatic cancer. [1:47:33] Well, I think that I guess I want to make sure we continue to do the research. [1:47:36] We are doing it. [1:47:38] The steel gavel is cutting me off. [1:47:39] But I want to make sure that we focus on some of that basic research that leads to those breakthroughs in things like RNA vaccines. Thanks. [1:47:46] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, good to see you again. Welcome. [1:47:53] I want to start by just saying how much I appreciate your efforts to get big pharma back on a leash under control, [1:47:59] particularly your efforts to stop direct-to-consumer advertising. [1:48:02] I mean, there's just no reason the big pharma in particular should be getting federal subsidies to do this kind of advertising, [1:48:08] which is frequently misleading, bad for consumers. [1:48:10] So you and the FDA have been leading on this. I appreciate that. Thank you for that. [1:48:14] Let me ask you about something that I'm concerned about. The department recently elected to allow Title X grants to flow to abortion providers for another year. [1:48:23] Let me just give you, let me contextualize this and give you an example from my state as to why this concerns me. [1:48:29] You're going to see, I think over my shoulder here, a poster from an actual provider, abortion provider in the state of Missouri. [1:48:37] This is an entity called Beacon Health Reproductive Network. They just received about $8 million from a Title X grant. [1:48:45] Now, Beacon Health, as you can see here, they do more than just refer for abortions. [1:48:51] They also proclaim their support for all bodies. They provide gender-affirming care, including to young people. [1:48:57] That's gender transition surgeries. These folks now who, by the way, went to my state legislature and tried to prevent the legislature from writing in the difference between male and female, defining that in state law. [1:49:10] They opposed our ban in the state of Missouri on transgender surgeries for minors. [1:49:15] So that's the kind of folks here. They're getting now $8 million in taxpayer funding from the Title X program because of the department's decision. [1:49:26] Can you tell me, when are we going to stop funding people like this? I don't think that this kind of entity ought to be getting federal tax money. [1:49:34] I agree with you, Senator. And, you know, we pause those grants. These are five-year grants. We pause them. There's a year left on them. [1:49:45] And we looked at the litigation risk, and OGC advised us that it was very, very high. [1:49:52] And so we're paying them out the last year. We're monitoring for high amendment compliance. [1:49:59] We've just released NOFOs today that I think are very aligned with your thinking, and I think you'll be very happy with. [1:50:07] What about the Protect Life Rule, Mr. Secretary, writing that back into regulations that would prevent any, going forward, any federal tax dollars from flowing to an abortion provider or an abortion referrer? [1:50:23] I mean, are you still pursuing that? [1:50:25] You mean outside of the Hyde Amendment's reach? [1:50:28] Yes. Yeah. [1:50:29] I'm happy to work with you on that. [1:50:31] Okay, good. I think that's important. I think that we should not be funding entities like this. And, you know, personally, I think a litigation risk, I'd rather take the risk in litigation than subject children in my state to transgender care funded by federal taxpayer dollars. [1:50:46] So I appreciate you working on this. I think if you look at the new NOFOs, you'll be very happy. [1:50:51] Good. On a different subject, there are currently in the state of Missouri something like 60 data centers. We have many, many more that want to come into the state. [1:51:01] I think there are 4,000 data centers currently being built in the United States. Over 3,000 are already in operation. [1:51:08] When I go home now, I get asked all the time by people who are big Maha people. I get asked constantly about the health risks around these data centers. [1:51:17] And I honestly don't know what to tell them because I don't know what the science is. But I just want to rehearse this for you. I'm going to show you a picture of a data center. [1:51:23] This is in North Kansas City. I mean, these are massive. This is going to consume, I think it's 700 megawatts of power. That's enough for 300,000 homes in one year. [1:51:35] But I get asked constantly things about electromagnetic fields. You know, this is like having these data centers, like having multiple high voltage transformers all located in one place. [1:51:44] Is that an increased cancer risk? I have people in my state who worry that it is, who are now living next to these data centers. [1:51:51] They worry about decibel levels causing things like headaches, migraines, vertigo, other neurological disorders. [1:51:57] My question to you is, is this something that HHS will study to look at the potential health effects here so we can get a handle on what is a health risk? [1:52:06] What's really not a health risk? So that we know what we're dealing with when we're talking about thousands and thousands and thousands of these being built, not just in my state, all over the country. [1:52:15] Yes, sir. And I just want to say that I've litigated on this issue. We produced over 10,000 studies or the court of appeals and I won the case to get FTC redo its regulations on on EMFs. [1:52:34] And you're right, there's a range of injuries that are very, very well documented. They're neurological, very, very grave neurological injuries, cancer risk, and then just the making the blood brain barrier permeable so more toxins can get into the brain. [1:52:52] The risks to me are horrendous. But we are, I've asked both ARPA and the Surgeon General's Office to either do meta reviews or to do base studies on this issue so that we can better inform the American public. [1:53:12] Good. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:53:15] Senator Kim. [1:53:16] Thank you, Chairman. Secretary Kennedy, thanks for coming out here today. [1:53:21] I just wanted to start by asking, are you familiar with the Lim Loss Resource Center? [1:53:26] Lim Loss? [1:53:28] Lim Loss Resource Center. Are you familiar with this? [1:53:31] Remind me what it is. [1:53:33] So this is really important. It's the only federally funded resource center dedicated to providing reliable information, support, and assistance to individuals with limb loss as well as limb difference. [1:53:46] This is, it doesn't ring a bell? [1:53:50] Well, with individuals with? [1:53:52] Lim Loss. [1:53:53] Oh, limb loss. Okay. [1:53:55] Yeah. [1:53:56] Have you heard of this before? [1:53:57] No, I have not. [1:53:58] I just raised this with you because you are proposing to eliminate it. And I wanted to ask you why? [1:54:06] Well, I'm happy to talk to you about it. You know, we've been asked to make cuts across the department of 12% and, you know, nobody, I don't think, [1:54:18] Russ Vogt wants to cut our department. Nobody in our department wants to cut it. We have a $39 trillion debt. And maybe there was a conclusion that these were duplicative services. I don't know. I'm happy to talk to you in your office. [1:54:34] Look, here's what I'll raise is, you know, I heard from a disability leader who used this center for resources when they needed help. This budget that you're proposing zeroes out the dedicated funding for this. [1:54:49] I also heard from a constituent, Darren, whose wife slipped while exiting a stair lift, becoming paralyzed. They relied on support from something called the Paralysis Resource Center, which is also being eliminated under this budget that you're proposing. [1:55:05] And I'll just read through. So the Paralysis Resource Center, Limb Loss Resource Center, Voting Access for People with Disabilities, University Centers for Excellence in Developmental Disabilities, the Developmental Disabilities Projects of National Significance, five projects there that right now are slated for elimination of dedicated funding. [1:55:26] Can you tell me what these programs have in common? It sounds like there are programs that treat disabilities. Yes, right. And I just I worry about that immensely. Because right now more than ever, I mean, these families that I'm talking to, you know, they are struggling so much. I mean, I cannot imagine, you know, what some of them are going through. [1:55:48] And when they're seeing that level of focus on cutting these resources dedicated for them, and I get it, you know, you're there's efforts to try to see if they can boost up some state level funding. But the dedicated funding for these programs is very much on the chopping block. And I guess I just wanted to ask you, will you consider would you reconsider funding for these programs? [1:56:12] I'm happy to talk to your office about that. The other thing I wanted to ask you, because it raises, you know, again, these are all programs that are focused on disability. And it worries me that there's not a prioritization of supporting the disability community and Americans with disability. [1:56:28] Meanwhile, there is conversation, there are talks and proposals by this administration to move IDEA from Department of Education to your Department of Health and Human Services. [1:56:41] And we've heard that heard that from the Secretary of Education and others. I think that, you know, I'm hearing from a lot of families that are very concerned, profoundly concerned about this kind of shift. [1:56:53] So I wanted to ask you, will you oppose the idea and proposal of this move of IDEA from the Department of Ed to Health and Human Services? [1:57:02] I will not. I'm very committed to serving the disability community. [1:57:06] I'm not sure you are because of what I just laid out here. I mean, the dedicated funding. [1:57:11] I think we're talking about certain programs. We're putting enormous resources into disabilities throughout the agency. My uncle wrote the Americans Disability Act. My cousin Teddy is missing a limb. These are issues that I'm offering to talk to you about. [1:57:30] We will follow up on that. We have a $2.3 trillion agency. I don't know, you know, every cut. There's some that we've made mistakes on. [1:57:39] And I would tell you this. We are, well, I'm happy to talk to your office about it. [1:57:46] We'll follow back up, but I'll just leave you with this. And this is what I heard from these families, and I wanted to just share it with you. [1:57:52] They say that if you are moving IDEA from the Department of Ed to Health and Human Services, you are defining these young students by their disability. [1:58:01] Engaging them as patients rather than as students who have the right, as anybody else does, for opportunity. So I just want to point that out. [1:58:10] Please do not single out these students and these families with disabilities. [1:58:15] Mr. Chair, just before I finish here, I just want to ask unanimous consent to submit to the record a press release from the New Jersey Department of Banking and Insurance entitled, quote, [1:58:25] Cost increases from Washington's inaction drives nearly 70,000 New Jerseyans to drop health coverage since January. [1:58:33] Without objection. [1:58:34] Thank you. With that, I yield back. [1:58:36] Senator Banks. [1:58:37] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Secretary Kennedy, I think someone in the media told me this is your seventh appearance before a committee testifying. [1:58:45] I can't think of any other cabinet secretary in the Trump cabinet who has been as transparent as you have been. [1:58:52] And I appreciate you being here today. I appreciate your service. [1:58:55] There's not a day that goes by when I don't hear from a Hoosier mom who tells me to tell you thank you for your leadership and what you're doing. [1:59:04] And my wife is in the audience. She's right behind you. [1:59:07] She wants me to tell you thank you as well, what you do for families all over this country, but especially in Indiana. [1:59:14] What message do you have as we wind down this committee hearing for families that are counting on you and this team to make America healthier again? [1:59:23] I, you know, we spend, people have been talking about measles all day long. [1:59:29] But we spend, when my uncle was president, we spent zero on chronic disease in this country. [1:59:36] Now we spend $4.3 trillion just in my agency. The military, Social Security, spend more. [1:59:43] Altogether, 48 cents out of every tax dollar paid to the federal government is going to healthcare. [1:59:49] Ninety percent of that is going to chronic disease. This is an existential issue. [1:59:54] We have the highest chronic disease burden of any country in the world. [1:59:58] Seventy-seven percent of American kids cannot qualify for military service. [2:00:02] Oh, it's a national defense issue as well. [2:00:05] Diabetes rate, juvenile diabetes have gone from essentially zero among children to 38% of our teens are diabetic or pre-diabetic. [2:00:16] Autism rates have gone from one in 10,000 in 1970 to one in every 31 today. [2:00:22] And we need to do something to protect our children. This has got to be our top priority. [2:00:28] And infectious disease is important. And one of my jobs is to make sure to stem the outbreaks, which I have done with measles better than any country in the world. [2:00:39] But we also can't just talk about that in exclusion to the thing that's really killing our country, which is poor health. [2:00:49] During COVID, we had the highest death rate of any country on earth. The highest. [2:00:55] So we did worse with COVID than any nation in the world. [2:00:59] We had a death rate of 3,000 per million population. [2:01:02] There are other countries that had 14 deaths per million population from COVID. [2:01:07] And when you ask CDC, why did all these people die from COVID? [2:01:12] Americans more than anybody else. [2:01:14] They say it's because of our chronic disease epidemic. [2:01:18] The average American who died at 3.8 chronic diseases. [2:01:23] This was not an infectious disease that was killing healthy people. [2:01:27] It was killing sick people. [2:01:29] So the connection between chronic disease and infectious disease is there for everybody to see, but everybody ignores it. [2:01:38] Every Democrat in this committee, all they wanted to do was talk about measles. [2:01:43] And none of them, for years they've talked about trying to reform the food. [2:01:48] I'm doing it now. [2:01:50] And they're doing everything in their power to impede me from doing it. [2:01:54] So it's all partisanship. [2:01:56] It's all tribalism. [2:01:57] And it's not real. [2:01:59] It's crazy. [2:02:00] I listen to their questions over and over again. [2:02:03] And you've made so much progress, yet the Democrats have tried to obstruct everything that you just talked about. [2:02:09] Trying to do to make this country healthier. [2:02:11] I think it's totally shameful. [2:02:13] And there are so many things that we have yet in the time that we have left with U.S. Secretary and President Trump in the White House. [2:02:20] Things to get done. [2:02:21] One thing that you and I have talked a lot about before is what China has done to dominate the pharmaceutical industry. [2:02:29] And last year, 42% of clinical drug trials were conducted in China. [2:02:34] It used to be 100% of them that were conducted in the United States. [2:02:38] What are drug companies getting out of that? [2:02:41] And can you talk about the threat of those drug trials occurring in China instead of in a safer environment in the U.S.? [2:02:47] I mean, they're getting faster clinical trials over there. [2:02:53] And because we have a system that was designed, you know, that's typically a drug from conception to commercialization because of the regulatory process takes 15 years. [2:03:06] And we can't afford to do that anymore. [2:03:08] And Senator, one of the things- [2:03:10] Is it true that they're less safe? [2:03:12] Obviously, they're less safe. [2:03:14] They're less safe. [2:03:15] No, they're less safe. [2:03:16] But there's all of- [2:03:17] And they're also breaking all kinds of ethical rules. [2:03:20] They're, you know, Shanghai-ing minority groups in China to participate in trials that they don't want to participate in. [2:03:27] We're now doing inspections over there to catch that. [2:03:30] More importantly, we need to compress the time from concept to commercialization in this country. [2:03:37] And we have a bill that we're going to put before Congress to try to compress the phase one trial and actually make it all a seamless phase one, phase two, phase three. [2:03:47] And that's going to help us. [2:03:48] So I appreciate- [2:03:49] We want to work with you on that. [2:03:50] Thank you for your leadership, Mr. Secretary. [2:03:52] Thank you, Senator Banks. [2:03:53] Again, speaking as a physician, I will say we looked up- [2:03:59] I looked up the Macaulay- the McKinley articles. [2:04:01] There was 3.5 million cases of measles per year before the vaccine came along and about 550 deaths. [2:04:08] And then the vaccine took those to less than 100 and like zero deaths. [2:04:14] So the efficacy of the- [2:04:16] The Macaulay paper was written before- for events before 1950, which is before the vaccine came out. [2:04:24] But then the vaccine came out and that's when deaths- cases went from 3.5 million down to near zero. [2:04:31] And deaths went to zero from 550 a year. [2:04:34] So a tremendous impact of the vaccination. [2:04:36] Senator Ulsterbrooks. [2:04:39] Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. [2:04:41] Good afternoon, Secretary. [2:04:43] You're familiar with Aaron Seary, correct? [2:04:46] Yes, I am. [2:04:47] Okay. [2:04:48] That's because he served both as your lawyer in your personal capacity. [2:04:52] And he's a lawyer for an anti-vaccine group as well. [2:04:56] Is Mr. Seary on the federal government payroll? [2:05:00] No, he is not. [2:05:01] No, he's not. [2:05:02] Okay. [2:05:03] So that- I find that interesting because he is apparently having a really outsized influence on you. [2:05:10] And in fact, according to her testimony, Dr. Monterey's last August said that during a very contentious argument with you or kind of conversation that you told her to talk to Mr. Seary so that she could fall in line with his vaccine policies. [2:05:25] You let him present to your now illegal and discredited vaccination committee. [2:05:30] And then this month, you signed an updated charter for the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices to focus on vaccine risk after Aaron Seary urged you to do so. [2:05:41] So, you know, despite him not being on the government payroll, it looks like he is clearly, for you, he's a top advisor in your agency. [2:05:50] Now, last month, Mr. Seary threatened to sue you if you didn't add hundreds of health conditions to the vaccine injury compensation programs. [2:05:59] And, you know, and just like that, you remove members of the Advisory Commission on Childhood Vaccinations to pave the way for changes. [2:06:07] So I just have to ask you, Mr. Secretary, who is running this department? [2:06:12] Is Aaron Seary running the department? [2:06:14] Are you running the department? [2:06:16] Well, it has nothing to do with the vaccine court. [2:06:25] Nothing. [2:06:26] No, just the questions. [2:06:27] Is he running the department? [2:06:28] Are you running the department? [2:06:29] This Aaron Seary guy has a huge, apparently, influence. [2:06:32] Yeah, you're just filled with mischaracterizations. [2:06:35] If you want to ask me about something, I will. [2:06:37] But let me just ask you this. [2:06:39] You know, you're going to talk and you're going to grandstand, but you're not going to get at the truth this way. [2:06:43] Well, Mr. Seary is actually, he's gone public with the whole thing now. [2:06:46] He's on X. [2:06:47] And he said, you know, that he's trying, he's actually trying to pressure you to immediately change your vaccine policies. [2:06:53] In fact, he wrote on X, I have no doubt RFK Jr., this is his quote, wants to update the table. [2:06:59] And the only reason that he wouldn't is because the White House won't let him. [2:07:03] So is the White House preventing you from updating the VSIP table? [2:07:08] Aaron Seary is an American citizen. [2:07:10] He has a right to say what he wants. [2:07:12] He does. [2:07:13] He's asking you, is the White House preventing you from updating this? [2:07:17] Is Mr. Seary correct about that? [2:07:20] Updating the vaccine? [2:07:22] Table. [2:07:23] No, they are not. [2:07:24] Okay. [2:07:25] Now, regarding the new CDC director nominee, part of the new team that you said would revolutionize the CDC, Mr. Seary said that the pick will likely be a disaster. [2:07:34] And he said the only thing that Schwartz will likely restore is the CDC to business as usual. [2:07:39] He said that left, this is his quote, left to your own devices, you wouldn't have even chosen her. [2:07:44] And that she is, and I quote Mr. Seary here, the queen of mandating vaccines. [2:07:48] So is Aaron Seary wrong about this new nominee or is the president? [2:07:53] Well, I guess Aaron Seary doesn't have much influence on me after all, does he? [2:07:58] You can't have it both ways of saying he has an outside influence on her department at the same time. [2:08:03] Oh, is he right in asking the question? [2:08:04] He's suing me and criticizing me or something that he, for a policy that I've made that he doesn't like. [2:08:12] So does he have an outside influence or not? [2:08:15] Is that you're arguing out of both sides of your mouth? [2:08:19] Mr. Secretary, my next question. [2:08:21] Now you've had some trouble with the truth. [2:08:23] I've seen it myself during your appearances before Congress. [2:08:26] And as we all saw clearly during your exchange last week with Congresswoman Sewell, [2:08:32] can you admit today that you said every black kid can get reparented on a wellness farm? [2:08:38] Can you admit that you said that? [2:08:40] Didn't get reparented on a wellness farm? [2:08:43] Well, let me read exactly what you said. [2:08:45] You said every black kid is now just standard. [2:08:48] Put on Adderall, on SSRIs, benzos, which are known to induce violence. [2:08:53] And those kids are going to have a chance to go somewhere and get reparented, [2:08:57] to live in a community where there'll be no cell phones, no screens. [2:09:01] You know, you claimed, in fact, you went on to say, actually the whole transcript was even worse. [2:09:06] You said that if you could, you would send, quote, every black kid, again, your words, not mine, to go live on farms and work. [2:09:14] Is that your opinion? [2:09:15] I would have to hear that recording because I have no memory of saying anything like that. [2:09:21] Yeah, well, I actually have the recording that I can give to you. [2:09:24] But it is absolutely what you said. [2:09:26] And if you want me to play it, I can play it. [2:09:29] If you ask me what my opinion is, I do not believe that every black kid should be reparented on a wellness farm or whatever. [2:09:38] And I have never believed that. [2:09:40] Well, you said it, sir. [2:09:41] I have the video here. [2:09:42] I'm telling you, I don't believe it. [2:09:44] That's not my vision for our country. [2:09:46] Well, I'm glad because it was ignorant to say it was dangerous and it was irresponsible. [2:09:51] Well, if I said it, I apologize, but I'd have to see the transcript. [2:09:56] Senator Murkey. [2:09:58] Mr. Secretary, holding corporations accountable for threatening Americans' health is a core part of your agenda. [2:10:20] Glyphosate, the main ingredient in pesticides such as Roundup made by Monsanto, is harmful to human health. [2:10:30] In fact, in 2018, you helped win a $290 million verdict against Monsanto on behalf of Dwayne Johnson, [2:10:39] a school groundskeeper who developed cancer after using Roundup. [2:10:44] Afterwards, you said, quote, the jury found Monsanto knew what they were doing was wrong and doing it with reckless disregard for human health. [2:10:57] So let's fast forward. [2:10:58] Your Maha report from May of 2025 cites studies linking glyphosate to cancer correctly. [2:11:08] Yet strangely, only four months later, in September of 2025, your second Maha report did not even mention glyphosate once. [2:11:20] What happened during those four months? [2:11:22] Well, the CEO of Bayer, which owns Monsanto, which makes Roundup, met multiple times with the White House. [2:11:31] Mr. Secretary, yes or no, were you aware of those meetings between Monsanto and the White House? [2:11:39] No. [2:11:40] Well, you should have been aware. [2:11:42] Mr. Secretary. [2:11:44] Well, the White House never tried to influence me on that issue. [2:11:47] Mr. Secretary, I believe that you are aware of the court case, Monsanto v. Durnell, which is before the Supreme Court next Monday. [2:11:56] Here's the background. [2:11:58] Monsanto was asking the court to protect them from lawsuits filed by cancer patients. [2:12:06] Lawsuits like the one you helped lead for people just like your former client, Mr. Johnson. [2:12:13] But just last month, in March, President Trump, in a brief, asked the Supreme Court to side with Monsanto. [2:12:23] And Monsanto was thrilled. [2:12:26] Mr. Secretary, yes or no, were you consulted before the administration filed that brief? [2:12:34] Yes. [2:12:35] And I opposed it. [2:12:37] You opposed it. [2:12:38] So do you agree with President Trump trying to protect Monsanto from canceled lawsuits? [2:12:44] I don't think he's trying to protect Monsanto. [2:12:46] I think he's trying to protect the 80% of American farmers who are addicted to glyphosate [2:12:53] and who will shut down the food supply if it suddenly disappeared. [2:12:57] Yeah. [2:12:58] I think your answer should be no, you don't. [2:13:00] Because you know that it's going to endanger the health of Americans who are going to be exposed. [2:13:06] I've always said that. [2:13:07] I've always said that. [2:13:08] Right. [2:13:09] Well, that is where this case is right now. [2:13:13] Happy to explain, Senator, or you can grandstand like you are doing. [2:13:17] Grant? [2:13:19] If you want to ask a question, you can ask. [2:13:21] No, you cannot. [2:13:22] I'm asking the question. [2:13:23] I'm sorry. [2:13:24] If you want to ask a question to me, you can do so. [2:13:26] That's not. [2:13:27] Or you can grandstand. [2:13:28] Mr. Secretary, in 2020, you said, quote, in my life, if my, you said in 2020, if [2:13:35] my life were a Superman comic, Monsanto would be Lex Luthor because I feel like I've been struggling [2:13:42] against it my whole life. [2:13:44] And in that same interview in 2020, you even recounted that President Trump during the trial [2:13:50] in 2020 sent a message to Monsanto leadership saying, we have got your back. [2:13:56] Mr. Secretary, will you tell President Trump that he is wrong to have Monsanto's back instead [2:14:04] of the backs of the American people? [2:14:06] I've already expressed my disagreement to the President about this issue. [2:14:11] Mr. Secretary, despite the decades that you have spent shouting that glyphosate and Monsanto [2:14:22] are killing Americans, this is the first that we've heard because you've been silent with [2:14:29] regard to Trump now shielding it. [2:14:31] I have not been silent. [2:14:32] You're mistaken. [2:14:33] Well, we, I can't find any evidence that you have said that the President is wrong. [2:14:39] I've said it publicly just now and I said it in hearings all week and I said it before. [2:14:43] publicly. [2:14:44] Well, it, from my perspective, this is like a pivotal moment where it just seems to me [2:14:54] that the only immunization you now support is helping through your silence to immunize [2:15:01] Monsanto from accountability. [2:15:03] This is a major battle that should be going on inside the administration and thus far you [2:15:08] have been silent. [2:15:09] And it's your job. [2:15:10] I have not been silent. [2:15:11] Well, it's your job as a member of the President's Cabinet to speak up on behalf of Americans' health. [2:15:19] And in this instance, I don't think there's enough evidence to convict you of having had that fight [2:15:25] inside of this administration. [2:15:26] There was a national security consideration that the President, that's part of his job. [2:15:31] Yeah, but you're not like Superman. [2:15:34] You're more like kryptonite, a toxic substance inside of the administration. [2:15:38] All right, Senator. [2:15:39] Which is helping to poison the American health. [2:15:41] Yeah. [2:15:42] Thank you, Senator Markey. [2:15:43] I have a couple of quick follow-ups, Secretary. [2:15:49] Imported seafood comprises about 80% of all seafood consumed in the United States. [2:15:54] But if these products are found to be unsafe, contaminated, for example, with radiation, true [2:16:00] story, currently FDA is unable to confiscate it. [2:16:04] Should we give the FDA the authority to confiscate unsafe imported foods to basically prevent it from [2:16:10] being imported through another port and bypassing our customs officials? [2:16:16] Would you agree that that would be a good authority for the FDA to have? [2:16:20] Yeah, you should have that authority. [2:16:22] The same thing is true of vape, Senator. [2:16:24] They do port shopping. [2:16:27] Because EPA cannot confiscate those adulterated products, they're not legally allowed to, [2:16:35] the ships come in to one port, EPA then blocks them, then they go to another port, [2:16:43] and they're now coming from a U.S. port, so there's no inspection. [2:16:46] And it is completely ridiculous. [2:16:49] We're going to work to give FDA that authority, and I thank you for your agreement. [2:16:53] Next, this builds upon something that Senator Hawley asked earlier. [2:16:57] The reports of federally funded community health centers performing gender transition services [2:17:04] on children and vulnerable adults. [2:17:06] Now, earlier this year, bipartisan, Congress gave record funding to community health centers, [2:17:12] and we'll have to decide providing more at the end of the year. [2:17:15] Were you aware of these reports about health centers performing gender transition services? [2:17:21] No, and I've strongly supported the extra funding to the health centers. [2:17:26] This is the first I'm hearing of that. [2:17:28] Got it. [2:17:29] Now, can I ask you if you could assess, further assess, if these health centers have violated federal laws or policy? [2:17:37] The ironic thing is I'm told DOJ, Department of Justice, actually defends these folks in lawsuits. [2:17:44] So they are disobeying a federal, an executive order not to do this, and then DOJ defends them. [2:17:51] So it would be nice to unravel that, and I appreciate where we're on. [2:17:54] That would shock me. [2:17:55] I've been shocked before, but I just can't see DOJ at this time doing that, maybe. [2:18:01] That is a good Samaritan provision. [2:18:03] All right. [2:18:05] We'll be sending a letter about this, and I look forward to working with you. [2:18:08] I look forward to hearing about it. [2:18:10] Before the committee adjourns, we'll again ask the audience to stay seated until the secretary departs. [2:18:15] For any senator wishing to ask additional questions, questions for the record will be due 5 p.m. Wednesday, May 6th. [2:18:23] Thank you again to the secretary for being here. [2:18:26] The committee stands adjourned.