About this transcript: This is a full AI-generated transcript of Lindsay Clancy murder trial IN FULL — Watch Again - DAY 13 from The Independent, published August 16, 2026. The transcript contains 24,914 words with timestamps and was generated using Whisper AI.
"This court is now in session, please be seated. Good morning, Your Honor, may I proceed? Yes, please. Your Honor, before the court today, we have the matter of Commonwealth versus Lindsay Clancy. Ms. Clancy is present, she is represented by Attorney Kevin Rennington. The Commonwealth is represented"
[00:00:00] Speaker 1: This court is now in session, please be seated.
[00:00:04] Speaker 2: Good morning, Your Honor, may I proceed?
[00:00:05] Speaker 1: Yes, please.
[00:00:06] Speaker 2: Your Honor, before the court today, we have the matter of Commonwealth versus Lindsay Clancy. Ms. Clancy is present, she is represented by Attorney Kevin Rennington. The Commonwealth is represented by Assistant District Attorney Jennifer Sprague and Assistant District Attorney Shannon Buckingham.
[00:00:19] Speaker 3: All right, well, good morning, everyone, good morning, Council. Good morning, Your Honor. Morning, Ms. Clancy. Good morning. All right, before we bring the jury in, could I talk to Council over here just for a few minutes?
[00:00:29] Speaker ?: All right, good morning. All right, good morning. All right, good morning. All right, good morning. All right, good morning.
[00:02:59] Speaker 4: All right, good morning.
[00:03:29] Speaker 1: All right, good morning. The Honorable William Sullivan, Justice of the Superior Court, now sitting in Plymouth, within the floor of the Commonwealth. Draw an air, give your attendance, and you shall be heard. God save the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. This court is now in session. Please be seated.
[00:04:12] Speaker 2: Good morning, Your Honor. May I proceed? Yes, please. Your Honor, before the court today, we have the continuation of the jury trial in the matter of Commonwealth versus Lindsay Clancy. Ms. Clancy is present. She is represented by Attorney Kevin Rennington. The Commonwealth is represented by Assistant District Attorney Jennifer Sprague and Assistant Attorney Jennifer Sprague and Assistant District Attorney, and Assistant District Attorney Shannon Buckingham.
[00:04:32] Speaker 3: All right, well, thank you, Madam Clerk. Well, good morning. Good morning. Good morning. So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to ask you those questions, and then we'll talk about our schedule for today. Uh, but first off, good morning. Nice to see everyone. Thank you for your patience with us and, uh, all the work that you've done so far. Uh, so the first question, has any member of the jury read, seen, heard, or overheard anything from any source that would affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this case? Uh, last question. Uh, is there any other serious matter or concern bearing on your service as a juror in this case? Anybody needs to bring to my attention at this time? Again, thank you for following those instructions, uh, and in regards to our schedule today, it's going to be, uh, I think it's a little bit different. All right, and a lot of it is because of the progress of the case and kind of where we're going. Um, I anticipate, uh, we're going to hear a number of witnesses today, uh, and we may break, uh, break early, all right? Um, and then, uh, because of some of these issues, we're not going to be sitting tomorrow, all right? Um, so you don't have to come in. You can come in if you want. But we're not going to be sitting on this case. Uh, so my suggestion would be not to come in, uh, and to take, take that and kind of, you know, and just relax as best you can and then we'll come in on Monday at nine o'clock and then expect kind of most of those days then going forward will be mostly, uh, kind of the schedule we had the last maybe three or four days. All right, um, so I just kind of wanted to give you that as information as early as I can so that that we confirm that today. So, uh, probably an earlier date today and we're not sitting tomorrow. Okay, uh, and so with that we're going to return to the Commonwealth. uh, presentation of evidence, uh, and Commonwealth, we call your next witness please.
[00:06:24] Speaker 5: Thank you, Commonwealth calls Kyle Paveo.
[00:06:49] Speaker 6: Your honour, while we're waiting, eh, Paul Jase? Can we just... Sure, yeah.
[00:07:19] Speaker ?: *phone rings*
[00:07:49] Speaker 7: Good morning, sir. Good morning, sir, can you start right here with the right hand of the clerk?
[00:07:55] Speaker 8: Good morning, sir. Good morning, sir. Good morning, your honor.
[00:08:10] Speaker 5: Thank you, good morning, can you please state and spell your name for the record?
[00:08:16] Kyle Paveo: Kyle Paveo, K-Y-L-E, last name P-A-V-A-O.
[00:08:22] Speaker 5: And where do you work?
[00:08:23] Kyle Paveo: Massachusetts State Police.
[00:08:24] Speaker 5: How long have you worked there?
[00:08:26] Kyle Paveo: Eight years, with 18 total law enforcement experience.
[00:08:30] Speaker 5: So you worked in law enforcement prior to the state police? Correct.
[00:08:34] Kyle Paveo: And what department? Town of Mattapoisette.
[00:08:37] Speaker 5: And are you in a specific role or unit at this time?
[00:08:41] Kyle Paveo: I was.
[00:08:42] Speaker 5: What do you do now?
[00:08:45] Kyle Paveo: Now I'm a sergeant in field assigned to the Bourne Barracks.
[00:08:48] Speaker 5: And previously, where were you assigned?
[00:08:50] Kyle Paveo: I was a trooper in the cybercrime unit.
[00:08:53] Speaker 5: How long were you in the cybercrime unit?
[00:08:56] Kyle Paveo: Roughly three and a half years or so.
[00:08:59] Speaker 5: And what is the cybercrime unit?
[00:09:01] Kyle Paveo: It's the state's primary child exploitation unit assigned to that or included in that is also a forensic branch, which deals with multiple other crimes other than child exploitation.
[00:09:17] Speaker 5: Would it be accurate to state that you are able to examine digital forensics like computers and phones that are related to other cases? Yes, correct. Do you have to have specialized training to be in that unit? Yes. What type of specialized training did you have?
[00:09:33] Kyle Paveo: So I am a certified forensic computer examiner, I'm a certified forensic Mac examiner, I'm a Celebrate certified mobile examiner, and I'm a Magnet certified digital video examiner.
[00:09:47] Speaker 5: What is Celebrate?
[00:09:48] Kyle Paveo: Celebrate is a, it's a company that has proprietary software that parses through data, most people know it for cell phones, there is a branch that does computers, but it's mostly known for cell phones extracting data and also parsing that data out.
[00:10:07] Speaker 5: What about Magnet?
[00:10:09] Kyle Paveo: Magnet is the same thing, so Magnet is also another proprietary company. They have software, imaging software, they mainly focus on computers. They can do some cell phone stuff, but they primarily focus on computers.
[00:10:27] Speaker 5: To be certified in Celebrate and Magnet, did you have to take classes and pass exams?
[00:10:33] Kyle Paveo: Yeah, so my forensic computer class certification is probably like a six month long process. It's two weeks of schooling down in Florida, is in a one on one peer review for four months of practicals of different file systems and computers. Once you get through that, it then is a practical exam and then once you pass the practical, it turns into a written exam.
[00:11:02] Speaker 5: Did you have an opportunity to examine the extraction of a Surface Pro that was seized from 47 Summer Street in Duxbury on or about September 16th, 2025? I did. And to be clear, the Surface Pro was seized from 47 Duxbury Street in 2023, it was in 2025 that you examined the extraction, correct?
[00:11:25] Kyle Paveo: That is correct, I was provided those files.
[00:11:27] Speaker 5: And what is an extraction?
[00:11:30] Kyle Paveo: So these are actually, it's a computer image, extraction is usually typically referred to as cell phones. So this is a computer image, so this was an actual E01 file, which is an NCASE forensic file. So what it does is it copies out the bit for bit data on the particular drive that you targeted at. And then the NCASE file sort of compresses the forensic image, it also adds some metadata to it, you can type in like case files, it keeps some integrity to it.
[00:12:07] Speaker 5: So is it basically, you take a computer or a cell phone and you make an exact copy of the data that's on that cell phone or computer?
[00:12:17] Kyle Paveo: Yes, computers, yes, cell phones, no.
[00:12:21] Speaker 5: But you were working on a computer or Surface Pro? Correct. And so the extraction for the Surface Pro would be, the extraction would be a copy of the data that was on the Surface Pro?
[00:12:31] Kyle Paveo: Yes, so the image in this case is a bit for bit copy of that drive.
[00:12:35] Speaker 5: And when you do the extraction or when you view the extraction, are you changing any of the data?
[00:12:41] Kyle Paveo: No, that's why we use these types of images, so we don't touch the actual data on that computer.
[00:12:51] Speaker 5: Did your initial review of the extraction show a visit to a website entitled Suicide Methods on August 23rd, 2022?
[00:12:59] Kyle Paveo: It did.
[00:13:00] Speaker 5: Were you recently asked to look at that visit to that site to get a better understanding of how that website was accessed?
[00:13:07] Kyle Paveo: That's correct.
[00:13:08] Speaker 5: Okay.
[00:13:09] Kyle Paveo: And how did you approach that? I set a parameter, I went to that artifact that I had previously tagged when I did the initial analysis. Let me just stop you there. Sorry.
[00:13:20] Speaker 5: What's an artifact and what is a tagging?
[00:13:23] Kyle Paveo: So an artifact is every single piece of data on that computer is an artifact. So a computer could have a half a million artifacts, let's say. That's a low end, but as an example. So tagging would be something you would flag that one particular artifact as evidence.
[00:13:49] Speaker 5: So in this case the artifact was the visit to the website, is that correct? Correct. And then the tagging was just so that you could find it when you went back into the extraction looking for it? Yes, correct. And so if you could continue telling us about how you approach that.
[00:14:03] Kyle Paveo: So I set a parameter of 12 hours before the visit and then 12 hours after the visit and looked at the correlating other digital artifacts related to that.
[00:14:19] Speaker 5: Okay. And can you tell us what's a Chrome history database?
[00:14:24] Kyle Paveo: So that's the, so a database essentially, this is a very slimmed down version of what this is. So if you think of an Excel sheet and each Excel page is a section of the database, so the database would be the whole thing. And there's a scheme or like a roadmap, let's say, of how these pages interlink with each other. That would be an entire database. Everything pretty much has databases, just easy for file expansion and disk saving space and things of that nature.
[00:15:01] Speaker 5: And what about Chrome web history table?
[00:15:05] Kyle Paveo: So a table would essentially be the Excel sheet that I explained before. It's a portion of the entire database. That particular one captures it without being a database engineer for Google who created it. But that table tracks URLs, webpage titles, dates and times.
[00:15:30] Speaker 5: So is it basically a table that you get from the extraction that shows which websites that computer has visited?
[00:15:37] Kyle Paveo: Correct. Each table has its own functions on different data it tracks and then eventually it puts it all together.
[00:15:43] Speaker 5: And what about a Chrome web visits table?
[00:15:46] Kyle Paveo: So the visits table tracks things of were the web pages synced to the device? Were they local to the device? Are they typed? Was it generated? Was it gone there through a hyperlink?
[00:16:07] Speaker 5: So basically is it a table telling how each website was accessed? Whether someone typed in a search for it or clicked a link?
[00:16:17] Kyle Paveo: Correct.
[00:16:18] Speaker 5: And you mentioned a couple different ways typed, linked, generated. So typed would just be someone typing in the search bar, something to search?
[00:16:29] Kyle Paveo: Yes. So typed could be a few different things. Typed would be somebody typed in an exact phrase or word. It also could flag the typed version, typed flag if you copied and pasted something into the the URL address bar.
[00:16:49] Speaker 5: So if you're looking at a recipe for say cookies and you copied cookies and pasted it into the search bar, would that be considered a typed event?
[00:17:01] Kyle Paveo: That's correct.
[00:17:02] Speaker 5: Or if you just typed cookies, that would be a typed event.
[00:17:04] Kyle Paveo: Or cookies or if you typed in, say you put CO for cookies and then Chrome tried to auto-populate what they think you want to type, that would also create a typed event as well.
[00:17:17] Speaker 5: And then you mentioned linked, what is a link to access?
[00:17:21] Kyle Paveo: A link would be that you clicked on a hyperlink, which brought you to a different page.
[00:17:27] Speaker 5: And what is a hyperlink?
[00:17:30] Kyle Paveo: That would be a word phrasing. And then behind the word phrasing, there is a website coded behind that.
[00:17:40] Speaker 5: Is that like when you go on a website and there are certain words that are underlined that you can click on and it will take you to another page?
[00:17:47] Kyle Paveo: Yes, correct.
[00:17:48] Speaker 5: Okay. What about generated?
[00:17:51] Kyle Paveo: Generated is something that Google would suggest, Chrome would suggest.
[00:17:58] Speaker 5: Now, what is the Wayback Machine?
[00:18:01] Kyle Paveo: The Wayback Machine is a website that is, I don't say monitored, it's created and maintained by the Internet Archive. It's a company. It's a 501 3C nonprofit. And what that does is it goes out on the Internet. It takes snapshots of the Internet web pages all over the entire Internet and then archives that. So you can go back in later. It started like in the mid-90s or so, but you can go back to pick a date, pick a year, and you can see what that website looked like at that time or approximately. It doesn't copy minute for minute, day for day. But you'll get something around the time that you were looking for of what a particular page looked like at that date and time you want to see.
[00:18:48] Speaker 5: So with regard to this case and looking into how that site suicide methods was accessed, what did you learn? Or what did you see?
[00:19:03] Kyle Paveo: When I went back? Yeah.
[00:19:05] Speaker 5: Go ahead.
[00:19:06] Kyle Paveo: So I saw, the first thing I saw was a Facebook visit at 9:40 that morning.
[00:19:17] Speaker 5: 9:40 a.m. on August 23rd, 2022? Correct. And what was the Facebook?
[00:19:23] Kyle Paveo: It was, the link was lin.say. I believe it was 968.
[00:19:30] Speaker 5: So Lindsey with a dot in between the D and the S, 969?
[00:19:34] Kyle Paveo: 969, correct.
[00:19:36] Speaker 5: And after the visit to the Lindsey.969 Facebook page, what happened next?
[00:19:46] Kyle Paveo: There was a search in Spotify music for the singer Tom Hall. What time was that at? It was shortly after.
[00:19:57] Speaker 5: Is your memory exhausted? Yes. Do you have your report with you? I do. With permission?
[00:20:02] Speaker ?: That was at 9:42.
[00:20:03] Speaker 5: So approximately two minutes after the Facebook account was accessed? Correct. And that website, was that a Wikipedia page? No.
[00:20:25] Kyle Paveo: That was Spotify. Oh, I'm sorry.
[00:20:27] Speaker 5: Spotify. Spotify music. And then what did you see next?
[00:20:31] Kyle Paveo: There was a song off of that search in Spotify.
[00:20:38] Speaker 5: Was that the, that's how I got to Memphis song?
[00:20:41] Kyle Paveo: Yes.
[00:20:42] Speaker 5: And was that at 9:44 in 18 seconds AM? Yes. Then what happened next?
[00:20:48] Kyle Paveo: There was a Google search for Tom Hall.
[00:20:53] Speaker 5: And was that at 9:44 in 30 seconds AM?
[00:20:57] Kyle Paveo: Yes.
[00:20:58] Speaker 5: And what did you learn from that Google search?
[00:21:03] Kyle Paveo: Off of that Google search, there was the Wikipedia page for Tom Hall was visited.
[00:21:09] Speaker 5: And were you able to use the Wayback website to see what that Tom Hall page on Wikipedia looked like around the time of August 23rd, 2022?
[00:21:21] Kyle Paveo: I did.
[00:21:22] Speaker 5: Is this a copy of that Wikipedia page from the Wayback Machine?
[00:21:33] Speaker ?: Yes.
[00:21:34] Speaker 5: We can have this marked as the next exhibit. No objection.
[00:21:37] Speaker 6: All right. I have no objection to any of the documents.
[00:21:41] Speaker 3: Is this Tom T. Hall? Tom Hall, yes. All right, that may be- 232. Thank you.
[00:21:53] Speaker 5: Could you see what happened next once the Wikipedia page for Tom Hall was visited?
[00:22:06] Kyle Paveo: So I saw there was an anchor on the URL to the death section. What happened to an anchor to the death section? So an anchor would be put at the end of a URL, so a web address. So what an anchor does, it's a pound sign followed by a section of that page. So if you think of it as, say you go on your banking website and it lists like a table of contents and it has login, mortgages, rates. If you click on rates, it's going to jump all the way down to that page, just to that section. So it's a table of contents that's going to direct you directly to a certain section of the webpage.
[00:22:50] Speaker 5: And so on the Wikipedia, someone clicked on death and it brought them down to that portion? Correct. And in the death section, could you tell what happened once the person was in that area of the webpage? Yes.
[00:23:04] Kyle Paveo: What happened there? So in the description that described the Wikipedia page described of Tom Hall's death. There was some wording regarding a shooting related to his ultimate suicide. Go ahead.
[00:23:22] Speaker 5: Showing you, let's be marked now, it's 232. This portion here under death where it's self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head is underlined. Is that the portion you're referring to? Yes, correct. And that portion there with the underlining, is that what you were describing earlier as a hyperlink that you can click and it takes you somewhere else?
[00:23:47] Kyle Paveo: Yes. So inside that phrasing, there's actually a URL behind that with an anchor as well.
[00:23:56] Speaker 5: Now, something like that, that type of hyperlink, can you hover over that with the arrow that the mouse directs hover over that and automatically be taken to that site? Would you actually have to click on that link?
[00:24:10] Kyle Paveo: No, you'd have to click on that phrase with the link behind it.
[00:24:14] Speaker 5: And so, based on your examination of the surface crawl in that area, was the hyperlink clicked on?
[00:24:23] Kyle Paveo: Yes.
[00:24:24] Speaker 5: And where did the hyperlink bring the person?
[00:24:28] Kyle Paveo: We now got to the original artifact I had located, which was the Wikipedia suicide method, but it directed it directly to the shooting section of that page.
[00:24:40] Speaker 5: Could you tell how long the person spent on that page? The suicide methods page? Or how long it was accessed? No. Could you tell what time it was accessed? Yes. Yes. What time was that?
[00:24:56] Kyle Paveo: I don't recall the specific time.
[00:24:58] Speaker 5: Want to look at your report?
[00:25:09] Kyle Paveo: At 9:45 AM.
[00:25:11] Speaker 5: The suicide methods page was accessed, correct? Correct. And did you use the way back machine to see what it would look like on August 23rd, 2023? I did. Is this a copy of what you produced?
[00:25:28] Speaker ?: Yes.
[00:25:29] Speaker 5: We could have this mic as an exit ticket. It may be admitted. 233.
[00:25:32] Speaker ?: 233. Thank you. And what could you see happening from that page?
[00:25:34] Speaker 3: I observed after that another Wikipedia page that went to the graph.
[00:25:37] Speaker 5: I observed after that another Wikipedia page that went to the graph.
[00:25:41] Speaker ?: And was that from a hyperlink within the suicide methods page? Yes.
[00:25:45] Kyle Paveo: I observed after that another Wikipedia page that went to the Grafton Bridge.
[00:26:05] Speaker 5: And was that from a hyperlink within the suicide methods page?
[00:26:09] Kyle Paveo: Yes.
[00:26:10] Speaker 4: I'm showing you page 8 of Exhibit 233.
[00:26:36] Speaker 5: So within this jumping section is where there was the hyperlink to that bridge?
[00:26:42] Kyle Paveo: Correct. Here?
[00:26:44] Speaker 5: Yes. Grafton Bridge. So again, the person had to click on that hyperlink to access Grafton Bridge?
[00:26:50] Kyle Paveo: Yes, that would be correct.
[00:26:51] Speaker 5: Now, you said that the suicide methods page was accessed at 9:45 AM. What time was the Grafton Bridge webpage accessed?
[00:27:02] Kyle Paveo: That was shortly after that.
[00:27:04] Speaker 5: Do you want to look at your report?
[00:27:06] Speaker ?: At 9:48. 9:48? Correct.
[00:27:09] Speaker 5: And so approximately three minutes after first accessing the suicide methods page, the hyperlink for the Grafton Bridge is clicked? Correct. Okay. Was there any other activity besides going to the suicide methods page and then the Grafton Bridge page? Any other activity that you saw within those three minutes?
[00:27:33] Kyle Paveo: I did not, no.
[00:27:34] Speaker 5: Okay. And so did you do the way back machine again for the Grafton Bridge?
[00:27:39] Kyle Paveo: I did.
[00:27:40] Speaker 5: This is a very accurate copy of that page? Yes.
[00:27:45] Speaker 3: We can have this mark as Exhibit 234, please.
[00:27:46] Speaker ?: That may be admitted.
[00:27:46] Speaker 3: Exhibit 234.
[00:27:47] Speaker 5: Exhibit 234. Yes. Exhibit 234.
[00:27:50] Speaker ?: Exhibit 234. Exhibit 234.
[00:27:50] Speaker 3: Exhibit 234. Exhibit 234.
[00:27:52] Speaker 4: Exhibit 234.
[00:28:15] Speaker 5: You're not able to tell who's actually at the computer doing all of this. correct? No. You can only see what data there is and what's been accessed, correct? Correct.
[00:28:25] Speaker 3: Thank you. Hi, Mr. Reddington.
[00:28:29] Speaker 6: That's it? That's your testimony? That's why you're here today, to talk about a search that was involving Tom Hall or Tim Hall? Sustained, if you can. So your test, I apologize, your testimony today is based on that search on August 23rd, right? Correct. And you were working as a state police officer back then, right? Yes, sir. And were you attached to the Plymouth County DA's office or were you working somewhere else? I was assigned to the Cybercrime Unit. And the Cybercrime Unit works with the DA's office in Plymouth?
[00:29:10] Kyle Paveo: The Cybercrime Unit is its own independent statewide unit.
[00:29:15] Speaker 6: So, in the sense that you're independent, it's still the district attorney and his assistant DA's that would reach out to the Cybercrime Unit and ask for help, right?
[00:29:27] Kyle Paveo: Or it could be the troopers assigned to the State Police Detective Unit. Joshua McGilligan. He was the lead investigator on this case, right?
[00:29:35] Speaker 6: I assume so. Okay. So you were tasked to analyze the computer, the Surface Pro computer, right? Yes, correct. And by all accounts, that was owned by Pat Clancy, is that correct? That is correct. And it was located in his office, right? I don't know where it was located. Okay. It's fair to say that when you analyzed the computer back in September, October of 2025, it was an investigatory rule that you were using to locate potential evidence, right? Correct. And what is it you were looking for?
[00:30:14] Kyle Paveo: I was provided a search warrant with search terms. And that's as far as I knew of the case. Okay. And what were the search terms? I don't recall specifically, but they were spelled out in the search warrant.
[00:30:30] Speaker 6: So when you have search terms, you take a person's computer, and then what do you do? You access it through a device?
[00:30:39] Kyle Paveo: So I was provided the images. I never saw the physical computer.
[00:30:44] Speaker 6: So when you got the images, you were able to load them up onto your computer, I imagine?
[00:30:51] Kyle Paveo: Yes, we'll use a tool to help parse through that data. Correct.
[00:30:55] Speaker 6: And then as a result of that, you were able to plug in words that you could search for, right? Yes. For example, like suicide? Suicide would be one. Drugs?
[00:31:07] Kyle Paveo: I mean, I don't think that pertained in this case, but that you could search. Believe me, I did. I don't recall the specific terms in the search warrant.
[00:31:16] Speaker 6: Okay. So after you did your search for whatever it is that you were looking for, suicide and other -- you're unable to tell us what else you look for. But in any event, you came across this entry on August 23rd, and you indicated that the timeframe that you're dealing with on that computer, the Surface Pro computer, was 9:40 in the morning. Is that right? The -- can you rephrase that? Yeah. You can look at your report, too. I mean, you know, if you have documents in front of you, do you have -- I do. All right. So you can take a look at it. You have a document that's captioned matching results. Is that right? I do not have that in front of me, but yes. And would that be the search that you -- that you conducted?
[00:32:10] Kyle Paveo: Of the -- is that the magnet tool report? I don't know what it is.
[00:32:15] Speaker ?: And I -- I apologize.
[00:32:16] Kyle Paveo: I get -- I have a search and I can have it say, so it's just -- what is that? This is the main page of the forensic tool. Okay. And looking at the main page of the forensic tool, does it indicate the date is August 23rd?
[00:32:37] Speaker 6: That's an inbox.
[00:32:38] Kyle Paveo: This also doesn't -- which -- were you talking about this highlight here? Yeah. What does that indicate? That's an inbox. That's not that. All right. So what --
[00:32:55] Speaker 3: Cooper, could you -- could you keep your voice up if -- or -- Sorry. -- or make sure you speak to that microphone?
[00:33:00] Kyle Paveo: So that -- that highlight is a bail inbox. Okay.
[00:33:06] Speaker 6: And that would be the HTTPS. And then underneath that, it makes reference to at some point that you were able to see that Lindsay or Lynn's Facebook account was accessed. And it wasn't even the account. It was actually the homepage, right? Correct.
[00:33:24] Kyle Paveo: It went -- it navigated to the Facebook person's account. Okay.
[00:33:32] Speaker 6: So that would tell us that that particular Facebook account was accessed, and then that conducted the search that you just passed it by at the next thing.
[00:33:47] Kyle Paveo: This does not have -- this here does not have --
[00:34:06] Speaker 6: All right. How about this next one? Does that have the Facebook visit? This one does. Yes. Correct. Yes. That would be right here. All right. Thank you. Now, just before I -- above that, does that also indicate, like, these two top -- what are these two top lines?
[00:34:30] Kyle Paveo: That would be a -- that was a CNBC web visit, which was typed in, and then there's a -- access to a Google Gmail account inbox.
[00:34:43] Speaker 6: And whose Google Gmail account was that?
[00:34:46] Kyle Paveo: That I don't know.
[00:34:47] Speaker 6: I don't know. Because that's -- those two lines and references to the Google account were not in your report, right? You started off with the Facebook search, if you will. Yes. So, you started off with Lindsay, Facebook, that was signed into the homepage on Patrick Clancy's Surface Pro computer, right?
[00:35:12] Kyle Paveo: So, my tool report has all of the artifacts tagged as evidence. Okay.
[00:35:20] Speaker 6: So, when you tag the actual data from the Surface Pro and the HP laptop as well, right?
[00:35:26] Kyle Paveo: Yes, correct.
[00:35:27] Speaker 6: And your October report back in 20 -- was it 25 or was it 22? 25. So, but nothing changes on the computers. I mean, whatever your searches are and your records don't change over the years, right?
[00:35:41] Kyle Paveo: No, as long as it's preserved in that state and the images -- the images of that computer will remain the same. Okay.
[00:35:49] Speaker 6: So, and it's fair to say that with this investigation, obviously, happening back in 2022, that the computers were hermetically sealed and stuck somewhere with an evidence locker to be -- to make sure that they're preserved, right?
[00:36:03] Kyle Paveo: I -- yes, that would be best practice. That would be correct.
[00:36:07] Speaker 6: Okay. So, then in October of 25, the district attorney's office asked you to conduct the search of the computer, apparently.
[00:36:14] Kyle Paveo: Is that right? The trooper in the Plymouth State Police Detective Unit reached out. Okay.
[00:36:21] Speaker 6: And that would be McElligan, right? No, it was not. Okay. Do you know who it was? Trooper Justin Paul. Justin Paul. Correct. And as a result of that, you then went, prepared your report. And one of the things that you did is you noted that on August 23rd of 2022, at 9:40 and 08 seconds, that there was an access to the Lindsay Facebook account, right? Oh, there was a visit to that page, correct? Right. And then that page continued on to look for Tom Hall and walking to Memphis or whatever in the songs, right? Yes. On Spotify?
[00:37:03] Kyle Paveo: Yeah, the song -- yes, after that was a Spotify.
[00:37:06] Speaker 6: And then the timeframe of that would be that you went and went to a hyperlink that took him to methods of suicide. Is that correct? That is correct. Now, were there any searches on that computer, for example, ways to kill? No, there was not. To your knowledge, and I understand that you might be stuck with what you investigated, but are you aware that there were any searches from Lindsay Clancy or Patrick Clancy on ways to kill? You ever heard that?
[00:37:41] Kyle Paveo: I, in my initial report back in October that contains all of the evidence artifacts that I had tagged as evidence and provided, I did not come across that now. Right.
[00:37:52] Speaker 6: So, basically, what you -- leaving with the jury would be that on that date of August 23rd, that occurred at approximately 9:40 in the morning and then carrying forward with jumping from Tom Hall to the Wikipedia account to the underlined name, suicide, jumping to that page, that all occurred between 9:40 and, say, 10 o'clock in the morning, right? Correct. Correct. Did you know, sir, that on August 23rd, prior to your report indicating the Facebook account that Mr. Clancy signed in, and it was Mr. Clancy's email that accessed the Facebook account for Lindsay Clancy? I did not. And that was not included in your report, was it? No, it was not. And you know that the Clancy's had three children, right? I did not. Well, you know that you were working on a case where Lindsay Clancy was the mother and she was married to Patrick Clancy, right? Correct. And did you know, sir, that on August 23rd of 2022, that two-year-old child was brought by Lindsay to South Shore Health for Dawson's ear recheck, that he had problems with congestion, but no complaints of ear pain, no fever. And that was on August 23rd, 2022, that he was examined at 10:15 in the morning. I'm not privy to those facts. So you don't know that Patrick Clancy's email signed into Lindsay Clancy's Facebook account. You're not aware of that, right?
[00:40:04] Kyle Paveo: It's whatever the default profile was signed into the Chrome browser.
[00:40:08] Speaker 6: And then that accessed the Facebook account, which looked up Tom Hall, the singer, right? Yes, correct. That then led to the Wikipedia talking about suicide, right? That is correct. Led to the Spotify talking about somewhere in Memphis, whatever the song was, right? Yes. And this was all occurring from 9:40 in the morning until, like I said, 10 o'clock thereabouts, right? Correct. You tagged actual data from the Surface Pro as well as the HP laptop, right? I did. And your October report contained searches from the Surface Pro, right? Yes. And you recall, for example, just a representative sample that, and this would be on the Surface Pro computer. Now we're jumping ahead to December 5, not August of '22. December of '22. One of the inquiries of the Google searches was what to do when a psychiatrist overprescribed, right? Yes. Searches for medications, right? Yes. Including Lamectal, right? Correct. Can bipolar disorder be temporary, right? Yes. Can benzos reveal bipolar disorder, right? Yes. How long are detox programs, right? Yes. What is DBT? I'm just saying that's a search. I don't know. Oh, yeah. I had to look that one up too. Okay. Lamectal versus, it says Zolafi, but I would suggest it would be Zoloft. That was a search, right? Yes, correct. What is mania was a search, right? Yes. Ketamine for benzo withdrawal on January 18th of 2023 was a search, right? Yes. Ketamine therapy on January 18th of 2023, correct?
[00:41:54] Kyle Paveo: Yes.
[00:41:57] Speaker 6: Now, you know, maybe not personally, but you know Steve Verano, who's also a gentleman who does what you do with computers and laptops and stuff, right? Yes. Now, you've worked on cases, and you know Steve, you recognize him right here, right? Yes. You know that Steve was working with me and Lindsay on accessing information from cell phones and computers, and he actually, through me, reached out about a month ago to the DA's office and raised some questions, correct? I'm not privy to that.
[00:42:31] Speaker ?: I'm not privy to that.
[00:42:31] Speaker 6: Oh. Well, the DA reached out to you about a month ago and asked you to revisit your investigation, and as a result of that, you created another report, didn't you? I did. And that would just be on July 26th of '26, right? Yes. And that was after the DA reached out to you, but didn't tell you it was because we had questions that Mr. Verano asked me to find out about, right?
[00:42:55] Kyle Paveo: Yes, I was not privy to that.
[00:42:56] Speaker 6: So, as a result of dealing with the DA in July 26th of '26, you then prepared your report, and the purpose of that report was to found out more details, if you could, pertaining to the, quote, methods of suicide page, right? Correct. And in your July 26th report, you then went into detail about your findings, correct? Yes. And we would agree that that particular webpage was not a search for methods of suicide, it was actually the Tom Hall and the music, right? That is correct. And then the URL shows access to Lindsay's Facebook profile, correct? Right. Yes, correct. But you don't know that it was Lindsay that was actually using that computer to search for Tom Hall, right?
[00:43:49] Kyle Paveo: I don't know who was sitting behind that.
[00:43:51] Speaker 6: You don't know that Patrick Clancy plays the guitar, do you? I do not. You don't know that Patrick Clancy is a music aficionado, right? I do not. You don't know that Patrick Clancy enjoyed Tom Hall music, do you? I do not know that. And you certainly don't want to leave it with this jury that Lindsay was looking up ways to commit suicide in August of '22, do you?
[00:44:10] Kyle Paveo: All I'm presenting is the facts that were presented in front of me.
[00:44:18] Speaker 6: And a couple more questions, sir. When a user logs into their Facebook, their own Facebook account, it doesn't populate or bring you directly to the actual profile page. It brings you to the home page, right? That shows your followers and things like that?
[00:44:33] Kyle Paveo: I think so. I don't have Facebook or social media, so maybe.
[00:44:36] Speaker 6: Okay. I don't know.
[00:44:38] Speaker ?: I don't know.
[00:44:38] Speaker 6: I don't know.
[00:44:39] Speaker ?: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. That's all I have for this gentleman, Your Honor. All right. Come off.
[00:44:46] Speaker 6: I would ask if I could, Judge, could I, the two documents that I was questioning him from, could I introduce those into evidence? I think he agreed that that was part of the search.
[00:45:08] Speaker ?: Can we just approach?
[00:45:09] Speaker 6: Sure. Yeah.
[00:45:11] Speaker 10: Can we just approach?
[00:45:21] Speaker 11: Sure.
[00:45:22] Speaker ?: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. That may be admitted.
[00:46:12] Speaker 6: And, Your Honor, I would offer, if I could, the medical records from the pediatrics associates
[00:46:32] Speaker 5: that they're already in evidence.
[00:46:33] Speaker 6: I would like to have it focused on that. You don't mind if we put that.
[00:46:38] Speaker 3: Well, we marked that for identification. We can address whether or not. I want to double check. I haven't gone through all the records either. I understand. We'll mark that for identification. Thank you, sir.
[00:46:52] Speaker 6: Thank you.
[00:46:53] Speaker 5: Sir, just for clarification. Before, when I was doing direct, if at any point I said, August 23rd, 2023, what you did when you did the Wayback Machine was searches for around the time period of August 22nd, 2022, correct? Correct. And anything that you looked at that day regarding the search for suicide methods or any of the other places that were visited were August 23rd, 2022, correct? Correct.
[00:47:31] Kyle Paveo: 2022.
[00:47:32] Speaker 5: And the visit to the Grafton Bridge Wikipedia page was at 9:48 a.m., correct, not 10:00 a.m.?
[00:47:43] Kyle Paveo: That visit was at 9:48, correct. Okay.
[00:47:47] Speaker 5: And defense counsel asked you about the defendant being at the doctor's at 10:15 a.m. Are you aware that it only takes four minutes to drive from her home at 47 Duxbury, 47 Summer Street in Duxbury, to the Kingston location of the pediatrics? I was not.
[00:48:02] Kyle Paveo: And I also wasn't aware that they went to the doctor's.
[00:48:05] Speaker 5: And you can't tell us who was behind the computer at different times, correct?
[00:48:13] Kyle Paveo: No.
[00:48:14] Speaker 5: You can't tell us whether people used the computer, then got up and let someone else use it, and then went back to using it, correct? No, you cannot. You can only show us the data that you observed that day, correct? That is it.
[00:48:26] Speaker ?: Yes.
[00:48:26] Kyle Paveo: Okay.
[00:48:27] Speaker 5: Thank you.
[00:48:28] Speaker 6: What has been marked for P for identification, which would constitute the health information records from the South Shore Health pertinent to the child. You're aware, sir, that the records, or you're aware, sir, you're not aware, that the child was brought to the doctors, not at 10:15, but was brought to the doctors around 10 o'clock in the morning. You're aware of that? I'm not aware of any of that. And did you know how old the child was?
[00:49:15] Kyle Paveo: Sir, my testimony is related to the computer. So you don't? The answer is no?
[00:49:19] Speaker 6: I do not. Okay. So is it fair to say, sir, that, I mean, from your life experience, that when someone has to bring a child, a young baby, to a doctor, you've got to get them dressed, you've got to feed them, you've got to get in the car, you've got to drive? And that's the four minute ride as well, right?
[00:49:37] Kyle Paveo: I'm not, I'm not privy to any of that information. Thank you.
[00:49:43] Speaker 3: Anything further?
[00:49:44] Speaker 5: No.
[00:49:45] Speaker 3: All right. Thank you, sir. You can sit down. Thank you.
[00:49:51] Speaker 5: How much calls Timothy Ciappini?
[00:50:21] Speaker 7: Good morning, sir.
[00:50:22] Speaker ?: Good morning, sir.
[00:50:22] Speaker 7: Good morning, sir. Attorney Sprague, please.
[00:50:24] Speaker 8: Thank you. Good morning, sir. Attorney Sprague, please. Thank you.
[00:50:28] Speaker ?: Good morning. Can you please state and spell your name for the record? My name is Timothy Ciappini. Last name is spelled C-H-I-A, P as in Peter, P as in Peter, I-N-I.
[00:50:37] Speaker 3: Where do you work? I work for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts for the Department of State Police. How long have you worked for the State Police? I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:50:43] Speaker 5: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:50:45] Speaker 12: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:50:52] Speaker 5: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:50:54] Speaker 12: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:50:58] Speaker 5: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:50:59] Speaker 12: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:51:03] Speaker 5: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:51:05] Speaker 12: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:51:09] Speaker 5: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:51:11] Speaker 12: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:51:14] Speaker 5: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:51:18] Speaker 12: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:51:23] Speaker 5: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:51:29] Speaker ?: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:51:30] Speaker 12: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:51:42] Speaker 5: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:51:46] Speaker ?: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:51:47] Speaker 12: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:51:59] Speaker 5: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:52:03] Speaker 12: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:52:14] Speaker 5: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012. I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:52:20] Speaker ?: I graduated from the Academy in March of 2012.
[00:52:21] Speaker 5: Oh, I'm sorry.
[00:52:24] Speaker 12: Yes, ma'am. Celebrite is an access and acquisition tool for mobile device forensics and cell phone extractions. It also has an analysis component for extractions.
[00:52:37] Speaker 5: And were you asked to do a forensic analysis on a cell phone belonging to Lindsey Clancy in 2023?
[00:52:44] Speaker 12: I was.
[00:52:45] Speaker 5: Did you do that?
[00:52:46] Speaker 12: I did.
[00:52:47] Speaker 5: And how did you do that?
[00:52:48] Speaker 12: I performed an advanced logical extraction on the iPhone device belonging to Lindsey Clancy.
[00:52:54] Speaker 5: Can you tell us what that means in just lay terms that we could all understand?
[00:52:58] Speaker 12: An advanced logical extraction of an iPhone is essentially an iTunes backup. It is the information or data from the phone that you as a user can see, including images, calls, text messages, browser artifacts, basically everything that the person would see that uses an iPhone.
[00:53:17] Speaker 5: And is it just making a copy of everything that you could see on that phone?
[00:53:23] Speaker 12: That's correct.
[00:53:24] Speaker 5: And what is the analysis portion of, you mentioned you do Celebrite Extraction and Celebrite Analysis. What's the analysis portion?
[00:53:34] Speaker 12: In January of 2023, the analysis software would be Celebrite Physical Analyzer. And with that you can also export a report to be utilized in Celebrite Reader.
[00:53:46] Speaker 5: So basically are you just taking someone's phone, making a copy of the data that's on it, and then looking through the data?
[00:53:52] Speaker 12: That's correct.
[00:53:53] Speaker 5: Is it an exact copy? Yes.
[00:53:57] Speaker 12: When the phone is frenzically extracted by the Celebrite software, a hash value is created. A hash value is a unique digital fingerprint of the extraction. It's an alphanumeric string of characters. And every time the extraction is open in the Celebrite software, that hash value is verified. If the data in the extraction is changed by just one bit, the hash value would be changed and the extraction would no longer be valid.
[00:54:23] Speaker 5: So basically you look at those numbers, the number chain, to make sure they're the same, and then you know it's an exact copy?
[00:54:30] Speaker 12: That's correct.
[00:54:31] Speaker 5: And did you do that in this case? I did. And was it an exact copy? It was. And are you able on the extraction to change any of the data while you're analyzing it?
[00:54:41] Speaker 12: No. That would invalidate the hash. I can use filters in the analysis to look at particular data that I want, but I can never change the contents of the extraction.
[00:54:54] Speaker 5: And so when you say use different filters, can you put things in categories to organize it so that, for example, can you put all the photos together and all the text messages together?
[00:55:07] Speaker 12: The Celebrite Physical Analyzer tool automatically parses the data into various categories and it processes media, various forms of media, images, videos. It processes different direct communication, whether it be through a web application such as Instagram or the native messaging application on the device known as iMessage. So it parses the information automatically and you're allowed to look at different categories.
[00:55:36] Speaker 5: So does it create a report with all the data?
[00:55:41] Speaker 12: I can create a report from the extraction and it has all the data contained in the report and I can filter it based on the parameters that I'm allowed to look at legally.
[00:55:54] Speaker 5: And when you do that extraction of a phone, do you get everything that's on the phone?
[00:56:03] Speaker 12: Depending on the type of extraction, I get all the data that's available to me by the forensic tool that I'm using at the time.
[00:56:09] Speaker 5: So do forensic tools improve over time to allow examiners to get more and more data from phones?
[00:56:16] Speaker 12: Yes.
[00:56:17] Speaker 5: So basically what you were able to get from Ms. Clancy's phone was what the tool you were using at the time was capable of getting at that time.
[00:56:26] Speaker 12: I performed the most comprehensive extraction type that I was able to do at the time of the examination.
[00:56:31] Speaker 5: And then there were improvements to that system following what you did that may have allowed other examiners to get more information? That's correct. Were you asked to generate some reports about certain sections of the defendant's phone? I was. We could pull up the... You could look at the screen, please. Were you able to create a report regarding data on Ms. Clancy's phone from November of 2022 to December of 2022? Yes.
[00:57:14] Speaker ?: Can we zoom in on that, please?
[00:57:15] Speaker 5: Could you just explain for us the different columns we're seeing here?
[00:57:25] Speaker 12: The columns are automatically generated by the software when you create a supplemental report. This is a supplemental report created through the Celebrate Physical Analyzer software analysis tool. When you create the supplemental report, you can stipulate to certain parameters, certain content, certain timeframes based on your investigation. In this case, there are multiple columns at the top reflecting the different types of data, the timestamp for that data, a description in the source file for the data. This is a timeline report and therefore it reflects those exact columns and that is predetermined by the software.
[00:58:12] Speaker 5: So for example, where it says type, what is that telling us?
[00:58:15] Speaker 12: That's where Celebrate has parsed the data and categorized it based on the forensic extraction.
[00:58:22] Speaker 5: So there at number one where it says activity census data, what is that?
[00:58:26] Speaker 12: That would be the data from the health database within the phone.
[00:58:33] Speaker 5: If there was something in the direction box, what is direction?
[00:58:37] Speaker 12: Direction could be related to a call incoming to the device or outgoing from the device.
[00:58:44] Speaker 5: So if one was a phone call, it would say to or from?
[00:58:47] Speaker 12: I believe the exact categorization would be incoming or outgoing.
[00:58:51] Speaker 5: Incoming or outgoing, okay. And then the attachment box?
[00:58:54] Speaker 12: Attachment box would be associated with a message, typically a MMS message or multimedia message. A text message that contains a photo would be listed as an attachment. It could also be associated with an email that has an attachment or some type of transaction on the phone that resulted in something being attributed as an entire attachment.
[00:59:17] Speaker 5: And then what about the location box?
[00:59:19] Speaker 12: If the data source has location information associated with it, then that box would have data filled out. This report is 768 pages, so there's a variety of sources of data within this report. And what about timestamp?
[00:59:33] Speaker 5: Where it says timestamp, the date and time, is that Eastern Standard Time?
[00:59:38] Speaker 12: It is UTC minus 5 as the time of this search warrant, excuse me, the timeframe of this incident occurred in January of 2023. Therefore, the extraction reflects the exact time frame of the time zone of the device at the time of the extraction.
[00:59:58] Speaker 5: And where it says party, what would be in that column?
[01:00:04] Speaker 12: Again, this is a timeline report. Therefore, there's a variety of data sources contained within it. There is chats or messages that occur from the user of the device to other people. And those parties would be listed within the chat, otherwise known as a group message.
[01:00:25] Speaker 5: So if it was a text message, the direction would say incoming or outgoing, and the party would say who the text was to or from?
[01:00:34] Speaker 12: It would say who the participants are on the conversation.
[01:00:37] Speaker 5: So if it's one person you're texting, it would have that person's name. But if you're in a group text, it would have all of the names?
[01:00:43] Speaker 12: Correct.
[01:00:44] Speaker 5: And then what about the description box?
[01:00:47] Speaker 12: Description box is based on the database information. It has some information associated with the actual data that was parsed by Celebrite. It also provides the source file. The source file is the database that Celebrite parsed the data from. Everything that you see as far as activity sensor data or any other categorizations, that's done by the software. The software parses that data to make it more readable for the examiner. But everything is associated with an actual database within the device.
[01:01:22] Speaker 5: And so for example, where it says source health, that's coming from the health section of the phone?
[01:01:28] Speaker 12: Specifically the health database, HealthDB.
[01:01:32] Speaker 5: And where it says source file, Lindsey's, how does that name populate there for source file?
[01:01:38] Speaker 12: Indicating that it comes from Lindsey's iPhone. That is the name that the software detects from the name of the device when it conducts the extraction.
[01:01:47] Speaker 5: Where the box for party, if it's a phone call or a text message and it has a person's name in there. Say I text you and your name is there. How does that populate? How does your name get into that box? Is it something that the phone gets from incoming information or is it something that's in my phone?
[01:02:09] Speaker 12: The tool is only able to take the information that is present on the device at the time in order for contact to be in a phone. It would have to be entered by the user.
[01:02:19] Speaker 5: So would it be whatever I name your phone number is what will show up in the party?
[01:02:24] Speaker 12: Correct.
[01:02:25] Speaker 5: So if I have say my mother's phone number in there and I say mom for her contact information, it will show up as mom?
[01:02:33] Speaker 12: The software will show up, display the phone number and the contact name that was detected by the tool from the extraction.
[01:02:42] Speaker 5: So if I've put a contact in mom and the phone number, the phone number will show up and mom?
[01:02:48] Speaker 12: Correct.
[01:02:50] Speaker 5: Can you search within this PDF? Yes. And do you do that by clicking on the search bar there at the top? Yes.
[01:02:58] Speaker 12: This is Microsoft Edge and that is the proper method within this application.
[01:03:03] Speaker 5: And so if we were to search, for example, McLean. I'm not sure if it's following.
[01:03:16] Speaker ?: There we go. Sometimes it takes a second to populate. It does.
[01:03:20] Speaker 5: It's a large document. As I said, it's 768 pages.
[01:03:22] Speaker 12: So depending on the machine that you're using to conduct your analysis, it could take some time for the document to load. Okay.
[01:03:35] Speaker 5: And do you use these arrows here up and down to go to each spot that that word is located? Correct.
[01:03:43] Speaker 12: The application, Microsoft Edge, has detected four entries for the spelling that is in the search box. And you can navigate to each of those four entries by using those arrows.
[01:03:56] Speaker 5: So for example, here at message 6951, it says it's an instant message. It's outgoing, meaning it's going out from Lindsay's phone?
[01:04:06] Speaker 12: That's correct.
[01:04:07] Speaker 5: It's on December 21st, 2022 at 2:57 PM, correct? Yes.
[01:04:13] Speaker 12: Eastern time.
[01:04:14] Speaker 5: And then it says from Lindsay owner to Allison, correct?
[01:04:18] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:04:19] Speaker 5: So that indicates that it's a text message from Lindsay to someone named Allison, correct?
[01:04:24] Speaker 12: Yes, with the corresponding phone number.
[01:04:26] Speaker 5: And then here where it says more of a general depression mental health program like at McLean Hospital. Is that the body of the text message that would have been sent from Lindsay's phone to Allison? Correct. And you can search through the PDF for whatever term you're looking for, whether it be Patrick or medications or anything that you're searching for. It will populate any text messages or searches about those keywords? Yes. If we could have the next one, please. Did you also do a report regarding things that were downloaded onto Ms. Clancy's phone? Yes.
[01:05:16] Speaker 12: Can you look here? Is this that report?
[01:05:18] Speaker 5: Yes.
[01:05:19] Speaker 12: Again, this is a supplemental report created within the physical analyzers analysis tool from Celebrate.
[01:05:32] Speaker 5: And what is this report showing us?
[01:05:34] Speaker 12: A singular item from the documents section of the project tree or otherwise known as the analysis component of Celebrate Physical Analyzer. And it's one single document.
[01:05:49] Speaker 5: Do you just, this blue hyperlink here at the top, 20, 22, 10, 12, 15, 28, is that what you click on to access the document?
[01:05:59] Speaker 12: Yes. When you create a supplemental report within the physical analyzer, when it creates the PDF, if it has an attachment associated with it, that attachment will be in a separate folder within the report. That way, when you click on the actual hyperlink, you're brought to the physical document itself.
[01:06:17] Speaker 5: And for example, in this report, there was a request for medical leave form that was downloaded to the defendant's phone? Yes. If we could go to the next one, please.
[01:06:44] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:06:45] Speaker 5: What are we seeing here in this report from December 26, 2022 to January 24, 2023? Is this the same type of search for any information and data on the phone during that time period?
[01:07:05] Speaker 12: Again, a timeline report is a chronological report of a sequence of events on the device. And it has the same categories as the previous exhibit. And here, the first item within the date parameters happens to be a calendar entry.
[01:07:30] Speaker 5: And so if we go here to page 846 of the document, can you explain for us here, is this web history, website visits that are documented on the phone?
[01:07:44] Speaker 12: That's one of the categories listed as an artifact. The items shown here on the screen are all associated with web browsing.
[01:07:53] Speaker 5: And here we see 10773 and 10774, and they both state, can you treat a sociopath? Those are two entries that have basically the same search term, correct? Yes. And that was on January 20, 2023?
[01:08:13] Speaker ?: Yes.
[01:08:14] Speaker 5: And they both say 8:28, 29:00 PM. So is it possible to do two searches at the same time, like it is displayed there?
[01:08:27] Speaker 12: The Celebrate Physical Analyzer tool parses the information in ways that the information can be categorized in a multitude of ways. Simply because there is more than one entry does not mean that something was done more than once. It's simply just a category that Celebrate has identified. You could have an item that's in searched items, because that's what the tool has identified as a searched item, also within web history, as in the search item occurred within the web history. It does not necessarily mean that it was done more than once. It's the job of the examiner to be able to look at the timestamps and the associated databases to determine is this more than one entry or the same action just categorized in multiple ways.
[01:09:11] Speaker 5: And when reviewing Ms. Clancy's phone, did you see numerous occasions where it looked like something was searched multiple times, but it all had the same exact timestamp? That's correct. And so what you just testified to, to make sure I'm understanding it, would be accurate to state that one search could be documented and located in many different areas of the phone?
[01:09:34] Speaker 12: It could be parsed in multiple ways by the analysis tool.
[01:09:38] Speaker 5: So basically categorized?
[01:09:41] Speaker 12: Correct.
[01:09:42] Speaker 5: So it's one search that's categorized as multiple different things?
[01:09:46] Speaker 12: That's possible.
[01:09:47] Speaker 5: And so here where we had the search at the exam, something that kind down to the second, that appears to be one search for can you treat a sociopath, not two, correct? Yes. We can go to the next one, please. Now, this area here, the separate report, is this the notes that were found on Ms. Clancy's phone? That's correct. And if we could zoom in on that, please. And there's basically detailed internal form, correct?
[01:10:34] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:10:35] Speaker 5: Starting October 24th, 2022, and moving down, correct?
[01:10:40] Speaker 12: The summary portion that you just pointed to is automatically generated by the application. When it reads the first few lines of text, the more relevant date is in the column to the left.
[01:10:53] Speaker 5: So over here, which is created, October 25th, 2022, that's when the note is first created?
[01:11:00] Speaker 12: That is the date that's detected by the analysis tool from the operating system of the device.
[01:11:06] Speaker 5: What does modified mean?
[01:11:08] Speaker 12: That's the date that was detected by the forensic tool and the last time that this note was modified according to the operating system.
[01:11:18] Speaker 5: Modified mean it was changed in some way?
[01:11:21] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:11:22] Speaker 5: And so if I start a note in my phone on October 25th, and I go in there multiple every day and change it, and the last time I change it is November 3rd, will it show every modification or just the last modification?
[01:11:37] Speaker 12: The only date timestamp that will show is the last modification. Unless the forensic tool is able to categorize each time the note was changed, I'm only able to detect the modified timestamp or last modified timestamp and just the entirety of the note.
[01:11:52] Speaker 5: And, excuse me, you don't know how many times this note was modified, correct?
[01:11:59] Speaker 12: Based on this forensic tool and this artifact, no.
[01:12:03] Speaker 5: Can you tell what within the note was changed? I cannot. So everything could have been the same and maybe a date changed, or there could have just been a date and everything was changed on November 3rd. You just don't know.
[01:12:16] Speaker 12: There could just been a one character change on the last modified date. But with this forensic tool and this artifact. What's the date?
[01:12:23] Speaker 5: November 3rd. Thank you. And if we could just scroll down to the October 25th entry. And I would just like you to read this portion of the note. I would read it.
[01:12:39] Speaker ?: I would read it.
[01:12:39] Speaker 5: I'm sorry, but that is the difficulty. Okay.
[01:12:42] Speaker 12: I'm sad and depressed because I am not able to parent my third child like my first. I want to treat any one of my babies like my first. I want to treat any one of my babies like my first. But I know that's not a feasible possibility. I'm sad that I stopped breastfeeding. I feel not as connected with Cal now. I think I sort of resent my other children because they prevent me from treating Cal like my first baby. And I know that's not fair to them. I know that. I was feeling so depressed last evening when Cora and Dawson came home from school. I know it runs off on them so we had a pretty rough evening. I want to feel love and connection with all my kids. I'm also probably having a bit of an internal conflict because my whole life I've wanted to have a lot of kids. I still don't want Cal to be our last, but I have a lot of figuring out to do before I have another. I'm on the fence about starting a new medication for anxiety/depression. I just want to feel happy. I want to be able to relax and take care of my kids. And when they go to bed at night, I want to deeply relax and hang out with Pat and then fall into a deep sleep for eight hours, get up and pour heart into myself for an hour and a half. Cal was so very planned and desired. I want to be able to give him all the love he deserves. I guess that's what it's like to be the third child though. He's not the first third child to ever exist. I think I know he'll be okay, but it's really hard for me. I hate that he has to put himself to sleep. I'm sad I'm not breastfeeding anymore, but I think deep down these are the right choices. As for the sleep training, I needed a baby that slept through the night because I simply do not have the opportunity in my life to catch up on sleep. I just don't. If there was a time for me to nap every day, then that may not have been the case, but there really isn't. When Cal naps, I have to take care of Cora and Dawson. That's just how it is. It feels cruel to me that we did not do that to Cal, but the reality is we did what we had to do. I guess I also feel slightly traumatized by the sleep training, but that feeling was only really present when I was severely sleep deprived and paranoid. I know what we did was the right thing and okay. As for the breastfeeding, it kind of goes hand in hand with the sleep training. Once he started sleeping most of the night, it was then a daily struggle to keep up my milk supply. I was having to take a ton of supplements and constantly think about eating and drinking enough to keep the supply up. And then I was having to think about pumping extra to keep it up, and that was really hard to do with Cora and Dawson around. When I tried to leave Cal to go out with Cora and Dawson, I was stressed about the pumping and not to mention the fact that Cal was at home and not taking a bottle. So it was a battle of if I should pump or not. I know I did the right thing because I need to be able to leave Cal with someone and get fed. As much as I don't want to leave them, I need to be able to. I need to be able to be present with my other kids. I still really, really want a fourth child, but I need a really good therapist before then. I'm on the fence about starting a new med or not. I want to feel happy, but it would be nice to feel authentically happy and not fake. But I need to feel happier than I did last evening because then I was pretty depressed and not enjoying any of my children. It was really sad. I needed the breastfeeding off of my plate. I'm struggling so hard because I wanted to parent each of my kids like my first. And since I can't, that's depressing to me. This is definitely the root cause of all our problems. Now I feel like I'm not parenting any of my kids the way I want to, and that makes me sad too. But I'm going to try my best today. Things I love doing that help me love and appreciate and enjoy my kids are activities with them. I definitely started having some depression after Cora, but once I started getting up and out with her, I felt much better. I think signing Cal up for baby music class would be a great thing. Maybe Fridays can be my day with him. I've just fallen out of the habit of doing anything fun, anything for myself, anything with Pat. And I need to work on that. On a positive note, I had a great deep night of sleep. I'm terrified of something happening to my kids or doing something wrong to mess up their development. Our generation is inundated with information about every aspect of parenting and everything that go wrong if you don't get it right. And all the scary things happening in the world. It's insane. For the last five years, I've just filled my mind with all things parenting and it's just unhealthy.
[01:17:12] Speaker 5: Thank you. And so everything that you just read would have been written and filled in by the user, correct?
[01:17:22] Speaker 12: Correct.
[01:17:25] Speaker 5: If we could go to the next one. This is another note, is that correct?
[01:17:39] Speaker 12: That's correct.
[01:17:40] Speaker 5: And this note, it says it was created December 22, 2022. Then it was modified on January 23, 2023, correct? Yes. And this note here, again, we don't know how many times it was modified. You just know the last date is modified, correct? That's correct. And you don't know what was changed in the note. You just know that something was. Correct.
[01:18:04] Speaker 12: Correct.
[01:18:05] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:18:06] Speaker 5: If we could go to the next one. Now, in this report, we're seeing some photographs. Is that correct? Yes. And why did you flag these photographs?
[01:18:23] Speaker 12: The photographs had multiple modification dates relevant to the investigation.
[01:18:34] Speaker 5: How so?
[01:18:35] Speaker 12: The photographs have created, modified, and access date that are all the same. However, the metadata indicates a much earlier time. What is metadata? Metadata is data about data. An image is data. And with the Celebrite physical analyzer tool, you're able to see the data about, in this case, an image. Metadata would be the device used to capture the image. It would be, potentially, based on the user settings, location data associated where the image was when it was taken. Excuse me, where the device was when the image was taken. A lot of times, it will tell the size of the image or the type of image file that it is.
[01:19:25] Speaker 5: And so, basically, when you look at the metadata of a photograph, you can tell what device was used to take it and the date that the photograph was taken on? Correct. And can you also tell if that photograph has been changed or modified in any way and when it was changed?
[01:19:45] Speaker 12: Using the forensic tool, I can make inferences based on certain modifications.
[01:19:50] Speaker 5: And how do you do that?
[01:19:53] Speaker 12: In this case, the image here is a .jpg. That's the file type of this image. Therefore, I know that the image that I'm seeing is created, modified, and accessed on this date. However, it has a capture time of November 2, 2022, at 11:27:15 a.m.
[01:20:16] Speaker 5: And is there something on here that says when it was modified?
[01:20:26] Speaker 12: Where the cursor is now indicates the modification date.
[01:20:31] Speaker ?: So, above it is when it was created, and below it is when it's modified.
[01:20:36] Speaker 5: Or no, down here, capture time in the metadata is when it was initially created, correct?
[01:20:42] Speaker 12: Correct. And you look at the source file, you can see the source file indicates that the image was modified under the component where it says adjustments.
[01:20:52] Speaker 5: So, just for the juries looking at this report, here in the metadata, capture time is when the photo was taken. Above it, the 1:23:23, that's the date that the picture was changed in some way? Yes. And are you able to tell how the photograph was changed?
[01:21:15] Speaker 12: I can do analysis based on an image and see that an image from its native format was modified.
[01:21:23] Speaker 5: So, basically, if I'm on my phone and looking at photos and I brightened something or I cropped something, cropped someone out of a photo, that would show it as being modified?
[01:21:34] Speaker 12: It would show it as being modified. In this instance, it created a new file, which is why it has the created and modified date being the same.
[01:21:43] Speaker 5: And so, would it be accurate to state that on this type of phone, when you modify a photo, you can change that photo and leave it there changed? Or you can create a new image with that changed photo?
[01:21:56] Speaker 12: Well, with an iOS device, Apple has the capability of taking what's known as a live photo. It's a proprietary name with Apple. But the exact file type is H-E-I-C file. H-E-I-C stands for High Efficiency Image Container. H-E-I-C or a live photo is essentially that. It's a container or burst of images that are taken over a very short period of time. It's a more effective way to store an image file within a device. It takes up less room. It also allows the user to have a multitude of pictures to choose from at a single point in time. If you modify an H-E-I-C image to be a singular photo, you can save it to the file type known as a JPEG or JPG.
[01:22:41] Speaker 5: So a live photo is one of those photos that's taken and you see a little movement before it settles into the photo when you look at it? Yes, ma'am. And is that an automatic setting on iPhones that it's set to live and you have to change it if you don't want that feature? That's correct. And so if you modify the photo and save that photo, that modified photo is not live?
[01:23:06] Speaker 12: Correct.
[01:23:07] Speaker 5: And is that what you saw here? There were a lot of photographs of the children that were accessed and modified in some way? Yes. And during what time frame were these photographs accessed and changed?
[01:23:19] Speaker 12: During the evening hours of January 23rd, 2023.
[01:23:24] Speaker ?: Okay, if we could go to the next, please.
[01:23:41] Speaker 5: And what is this report displaying?
[01:23:54] Speaker 12: This is another timeline report with the first event starting January 24th, 2023 at 4:00 PM.
[01:24:04] Speaker 5: And does it go on January 24th, 2023 from 4:00 PM to 8:00 PM?
[01:24:15] Speaker ?: That's correct.
[01:24:17] Speaker 12: It encompasses everything that would be before that time frame appears. The last entry is 7:02, 01:00 PM.
[01:24:27] Speaker 5: And this would contain all of the things that were done with the phone between 4:00 PM and 8:00 PM on January 24th, 2023. Is that correct?
[01:24:40] Speaker 12: Everything that was detected by the forensic tool based on the extraction type. Okay.
[01:24:46] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:24:48] Speaker 5: And if we could go to the timeframe, 4:30 to 4:35. Miralax. Using the tool, we'll search Miralax. Looking here, starting at item 37 at 4:46 PM, is there a search for Miralax?
[01:25:45] Speaker 12: For kids on the phone? Yes. And again, we're seeing this search for Miralax for kids, 4:46.55, 4:46.55, the same time over and over again. Is that another example of one search showing up in multiple categories? Correct. As an examiner, I would be looking at the timestamp and also the category second box in from the left, indicating that the Celebrite software has parsed it in multiple locations.
[01:26:16] Speaker 5: If you could search 3B. In searching 3B in the document, we see here multiple sources. You could do a search with the number 3, I think. So we see here at 4:43 PM on January 24th, a search for the 3B menu, correct? Yes. If we could scroll down a little. And again, those are all at the same time, so they indicate one search for the menu? Yes. And the tools parsed it in multiple categories. And we could go back. Was there also a search for an Apple Maps for 3B? Yes. And what time was that? I'm sorry, there's a glare.
[01:27:39] Speaker 12: I'm sorry, there's a glare.
[01:27:40] Speaker ?: I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, there's a glare. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, there's a glare.
[01:28:33] Speaker 5: If we could go to 4:13 p.m. And here in Apple Maps, do we see 3D restaurant at 4:13 p.m.?
[01:28:57] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:28:59] Speaker 5: And when you're using a map feature to look up a location such as Apple Maps, what type of information do you learn when you plug in a location or an address into Apple Maps?
[01:29:16] Speaker 12: A route preview.
[01:29:18] Speaker 5: And does that route preview give you a length of time it would take to travel to that location?
[01:29:23] Speaker 12: Depending on what you indicate as your originating location, yes.
[01:29:28] Speaker 5: And so if you plug in 3V restaurant to Apple Maps and it maps out a route to get there, does it tell you from your location to 3V how long it would take to get there?
[01:29:40] Speaker 12: Based on traffic conditions, yes. Because that changes constantly, correct?
[01:29:44] Speaker 5: Yes. So if I open up my Apple Maps and I put in 3V right now from here at this time, the time it takes to get there might be different than say at six o'clock tonight? Yes.
[01:29:56] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:29:57] Speaker 5: And so if we can look go to 4:47 p.m. And here at 4:47 p.m. Again, we're seeing the search for Kids Miralax, correct?
[01:30:29] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:30:30] Speaker 5: Is there also a visit to a CVS website here at 4:47.04?
[01:30:39] Speaker 12: Yes. It's categorized in multiple categories within the tool, but it parsed an artifact at that time.
[01:30:49] Speaker 5: If you could scroll down a little, please. To the phone call, the next phone call right here. This outgoing phone call at 4:48-21-781-585-6581, did you learn that that was a phone call to the CVS at 189 Summer Street in Kingston?
[01:31:13] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:31:14] Speaker 5: And so that would be an outgoing phone call from the defendant's phone to CVS?
[01:31:19] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:31:20] Speaker ?: Can we go to 4:53 p.m. Please?
[01:31:21] Speaker 5: And then there's a message. It says message 80 outgoing from the defendant's phone at 4:53.09 from Lindsay to Patrick Clancy, correct?
[01:31:39] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:31:40] Speaker 5: And it says, "Any chance you want to do takeout from 3B? I didn't cook anything. It's been a long day," correct?
[01:31:45] Speaker 12: That's the content of the message.
[01:31:47] Speaker 5: Is there a response in message 82 from Patrick to Lindsay? Yes, there is. And what is the answer? Yeah. And then is there a response from Lindsay to Patrick in message 84? Yes.
[01:32:01] Speaker 12: And what is that?
[01:32:02] Speaker 5: Okie dokie. And then message 86, again from Lindsay to Patrick, does she send him another message? She does.
[01:32:10] Speaker 12: And what does that say? Check the menu when you can. And then if you could scroll down to the next message.
[01:32:18] Speaker 5: Is that message 90 from Patrick to Lindsay asking if Callen just got up?
[01:32:24] Speaker 12: It is.
[01:32:25] Speaker 5: And then message number 92, is that from Patrick to Lindsay saying, "Also, what are you getting?"
[01:32:32] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:32:33] Speaker 5: And then 94 at 5:06 p.m., is that from Lindsay to Patrick stating, "But it was just a short nap in message 96?" Yes.
[01:32:45] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:32:46] Speaker 5: And then message 97 at 5:06 p.m. is 3D menu searched? Yes.
[01:32:52] Speaker 12: And that source says Safari.
[01:32:54] Speaker 5: Is that a Safari web search for the 3D menu?
[01:32:57] Speaker 12: Safari is the default web browser on an iOS device and iOS stands for iPhone operating system.
[01:33:03] Speaker 5: So that's a basic search on your iPhone for the 3D menu?
[01:33:06] Speaker 12: Utilizing the Safari web application, correct.
[01:33:08] Speaker 5: And then number 98, is that another search for Pedialax? Correct. Now both the search for 3D menu and the search for Pedialax are at 5:06 45. How does that happen, that there are two searches for two different things at the same time?
[01:33:29] Speaker ?: Can you repeat the question?
[01:33:30] Speaker 12: Can you repeat the question?
[01:33:32] Speaker 5: So you have in message 97, you have on January 24, 2023 at 5:06 45, a search for 3D menu, then the same date at the same time, a search for Pedialax. And what's the question? How does it happen that you have two searches at the same time?
[01:33:58] Speaker 12: I would only be able to make an inference from here without having the forensic tool available to me.
[01:34:03] Speaker 5: And what would the inference be?
[01:34:05] Speaker 12: That there was more than one tab open.
[01:34:07] Speaker 5: Okay. So on your phone or a computer, when you're doing web searches, you can have multiple pages open, correct?
[01:34:13] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:34:14] Speaker 5: And you can just click on whatever page you want to open, you can click on and that will open up?
[01:34:22] Speaker 12: Correct. You can select which tab you want within the Safari application. The tabs, right.
[01:34:26] Speaker 5: Okay. So how many tabs can you have open at any one time?
[01:34:31] Speaker 12: I'm not sure the number, but I've seen iOS devices capable of having more than 30 or 40 tabs open at a time.
[01:34:42] Speaker 5: So it wouldn't be uncommon or unusual to have at least two open to two different web searches? No.
[01:34:49] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:34:50] Speaker 5: If we could scroll down a little, please.
[01:34:56] Speaker ?: Okay. Okay. Okay.
[01:34:59] Speaker 5: And then we have, um, in 106 and 105, both messages. First 105, we have a web history at 506.47, the menu at 3B restaurant, again, the source Safari. And then we have cookies at 506.48.3, the restaurant.com. Can you tell us what the difference between those two are?
[01:35:23] Speaker 12: Uh, they're both, uh, from different databases. Uh, they're both associated with web browsing. Web history is from the history component, uh, of the Safari application. Cookies are installed through web browsing, uh, through legislation. When you visit a website for the first time, you'll typically be prompted to want to allow the website to download cookies onto your device. Cookies downloaded on your device, uh, has served a multitude of reasons. One might be that it allows the website or the company to be able to track your activity while on their website, um, which helps them for marketing and business purposes. Uh, another component of cookies would be to, uh, enhance the web browsing experience for a website you go to on a regular basis. It would increase the load time. Um, so it is an artifact that is indicative of web browsing.
[01:36:15] Speaker 5: And so, uh, message 108. Um, again, we have a 506.49. We have a message from Patrick to Lindsey saying OOK. Is that correct?
[01:36:25] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:36:26] Speaker 5: And then, uh, message 112. We have a message from Lindsey to Patrick where she says Mediterranean Power Bowl, correct? Yes. And then, and that was at 5:07 PM. We have a message 115 from Patrick to Lindsey at 5:08 PM. Okay. I'll do scallop and pork belly risotto. Is that right?
[01:36:48] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:36:49] Speaker 5: And then if we could go to 5:10 PM, the phone call right there. Um, and so we have, um, two phone calls here, uh, one at 5:09 PM and one at 5:10 PM. Um, the first to 508-747-4950 and the other to 508-927-4046. The first one is for 11 seconds, correct?
[01:37:19] Speaker 12: That's the duration. Yes.
[01:37:21] Speaker 5: That's noted here above source. Yes. And then the second is 47 seconds. Is that correct?
[01:37:26] Speaker 12: Correct.
[01:37:27] Speaker 5: Um, did you look into these two phone calls?
[01:37:30] Speaker 12: I don't recall. Okay.
[01:37:33] Speaker 5: Um, do you recall, uh, the 508-927-4046 being the number for the 3B restaurant? Yes.
[01:37:40] Speaker 12: And if we could, um, scroll down a little bit.
[01:37:42] Speaker 5: Um, are there further searches at 5:13 PM, um, uh, starting at, um, number 128 for PDLX? That's correct. And again, we're seeing that same thing with, um, the same time, but multiple, uh, different categories that that one search is located in, correct? Correct.
[01:38:07] Speaker 12: Single artifacts, uh, multiple categories that the tool parsed it as.
[01:38:12] Speaker 5: Can we go to, um, 5:33 PM, please? Oh, I'm sorry.
[01:38:17] Speaker ?: I stopped there. Thank you. Um, I'm sorry.
[01:38:20] Speaker 5: I stopped there. Thank you. Um, 1:46. Message 1:46. A message from Lindsay to Patrick at 5:15 PM, which states PDLX liquid stool softener. Correct?
[01:38:34] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:38:35] Speaker 5: All right. And then at, um, 1:47, we have, uh, 5:33, 51 PM. Is that a phone call from Patrick's phone to Lindsay's phone? Yes. And that has zeros in it for duration. Does that indicate the call wasn't answered?
[01:38:53] Speaker 12: It would be an inference.
[01:38:55] Speaker 5: And then going down to 1:50, we have, um, an outgoing call from the defendant's phone to Patrick Clancy for 14 seconds at 5:34 PM. Correct? Yes. That means the call lasted approximately 14 seconds. Correct. And then, um, the last item there, um, item 1:52, um, that is an incoming call to the defendant's phone from Patrick Clancy. Correct?
[01:39:29] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:39:30] Speaker 5: And again, we have zeros here, um, indicating that the call wasn't answered. Correct? It's an inference.
[01:39:36] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:39:37] Speaker 5: If I could have, um, these reports that I just went over submitted on this disc as the next exhibit.
[01:39:53] Speaker 3: That may be admitted. That may be admitted. Is it 136?
[01:39:56] Speaker 5: Did you also, um, looking through the defendant's phone, access the information on the calendar portion of the phone? I did. And the calendar portion of the phone, does that have different types of data, both populated by the phone itself and Apple, and then items populated by the user? Yes. Could you give us an example of something that would be populated by Apple and not the user?
[01:40:32] Speaker 12: Uh, a national holiday such as Christmas Day would, uh, be populated by the operating system through the web, through the application of calendar.
[01:40:40] Speaker 5: And then if I'm using my phone and I'm putting in appointments or parties or things I'm going to, that would be something that the user is putting into the calendar?
[01:40:50] Speaker 12: Correct.
[01:40:51] Speaker 5: And did you do a report of all the calendar activity, um, for Lindsey Clancy's phone from August 4th, 2022 to January 31st, 2023?
[01:41:04] Speaker 3: I did.
[01:41:05] Speaker 5: I could have this mark this in it.
[01:41:07] Speaker 3: All right, that may be admitted. Ms. Prager, is this a good time to take the morning break?
[01:41:12] Speaker 5: I just have one more exhibit to put in and then I would be done. That's fine. Did you, oh, I'm sorry.
[01:41:17] Speaker 3: All right, thank you.
[01:41:19] Speaker 5: Did you also, uh, do a report on all the text messages between the defendant's phone and an individual that had been labeled mommy?
[01:41:30] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:41:31] Speaker 5: And was that for the month of January, 2023?
[01:41:34] Speaker 12: I did.
[01:41:35] Speaker 5: We moved to have these, uh, it is the next exhibit.
[01:41:37] Speaker 3: All right, that may be admitted.
[01:41:42] Speaker 5: And nothing further.
[01:41:43] Speaker 3: All right, so why don't we take the morning recess, uh, at this time? All right, so members of the jury, we're gonna take a short recess, uh, and then we'll return, uh, back to the case. to the case. All right, we'll be in recess on this matter, thank you.
[01:42:37] Speaker 11: All right. This court is back in session, you may be seated.
[01:42:48] Speaker 3: All right, council, are we ready for the jury? Yeah, thank you.
[01:43:21] Speaker ?: All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. Mr. Reddington. Yes, Your Honor. Thank you. Good morning, sir. Good morning, sir. So you are part of the. You are part of the. prosecution team that handles the.
[01:44:05] Speaker 7: the downloads of. computers and cell phones and cell phones and things like that, right?
[01:44:09] Speaker 2: Specifically, mobile devices are not computers. Mobile devices, okay. And the other gentleman that testified. Pavo, is that his name?
[01:44:17] Speaker 6: Paveo, sir.
[01:44:19] Speaker ?: Paveo, sir. Paveo, sir.
[01:44:19] Speaker 6: And he. And he did the laptops that were found in the. In the office.
[01:44:24] Speaker ?: In the home.
[01:44:25] Speaker 6: Yes. Okay. And the other gentleman that testified. Pavo, is that his name? Paveo, sir. Paveo. And he did the laptops that were found in the. In the office. In the office. In the office.
[01:44:36] Speaker 12: In the office. In the office. In the office.
[01:44:39] Speaker 6: In the office. In the office. Okay. And the other gentleman that testified. Pavo. Is that his name?
[01:44:45] Speaker 12: Paveo, sir.
[01:44:46] Speaker 6: Paveo. And he did the laptops that were found in the. In the office. In the office.
[01:44:51] Speaker 12: In the home. Right? Correct.
[01:44:54] Speaker 6: He has those certifications. Okay. Now the district attorney had. Asked you. Some questions about. Different. Searches that you had done. On. Celebrate. And on. Axiom. All your searches dealt with. Lindsay's cell phone. Right?
[01:45:11] Speaker 12: To clarify, sir. I did no searches on.
[01:45:13] Speaker 6: Axiom. Okay. You did searches on. Celebrate.
[01:45:17] Speaker 12: It's the only forensic tool I use. Correct? All right.
[01:45:20] Speaker 6: Um. And basically. I'm just trying to. Get a handle on. That you. And your other. Brother or sister officers. Um. Would. Would examine. For example. The computers. That were found. In Patrick's office. In the house. Right? You didn't.
[01:45:38] Speaker 12: But the other people.
[01:45:39] Speaker 6: That's correct. You got. You got. The computer. Strike that. You got the cell phone. That was Lindsay's cell phone. Right?
[01:45:47] Speaker 12: Yes sir.
[01:45:48] Speaker 6: And you then. Did. You know. What's called an advanced. Logical. Of. Of Lindsay's phone.
[01:45:55] Speaker 12: Is that right?
[01:45:56] Speaker 6: That's correct. And what is an advanced. Logical.
[01:45:59] Speaker 12: What does that mean? What does that mean? What the user sees. When they're. Using the phone. Okay. So like. If you pick up a phone. And you open it up. Then that's. You're interfacing with the phone. And you're looking at different things. Such as. Photographs. E-mails.
[01:46:14] Speaker 6: Text. Things like that.
[01:46:16] Speaker 12: Yes sir. Okay. Okay. So like.
[01:46:20] Speaker 6: If you pick up a phone. And you open it up. Then that's. You're interfacing with the phone. And you're looking at different things. Such as. Photographs. E-mails. Text.
[01:46:29] Speaker 12: Yes sir.
[01:46:30] Speaker 6: Okay. Um. In addition to. Trooper. Now Sergeant. Paveo. Uh. And yourself. There also was another. Uh. Trooper that you were working with. A guy by the name of Rabbit. Like Roger Rabbit. Right?
[01:46:44] Speaker 12: Yes. Joseph Rabbit was assigned to the unit at the time.
[01:46:47] Speaker 6: And. And he also conducted a search. Uh. But he did what's called a full file system extraction. Right?
[01:46:54] Speaker 12: I don't recall. Okay.
[01:46:56] Speaker 6: What is a full file system extraction. As opposed to advanced logical extraction.
[01:47:01] Speaker 12: A full file system extraction would acquire. The databases. And information that you cannot see as a user on a device. I see.
[01:47:08] Speaker 6: So your extraction was done on January 30th. Is that correct? Yes sir. And Rabbit's extraction was done on January 27th. Right?
[01:47:18] Speaker 12: I'm not aware of Trooper Rabbit's extraction.
[01:47:20] Speaker 6: Did you ever collaborate with him as investigator investigating Lindsey Clancy on this case? And talk about what you located or what he located?
[01:47:28] Speaker 12: I had no discussion with him about the foreign extraction.
[01:47:31] Speaker 6: All right. Is he still working for the state police? He is. Um. Would you agree with me that the full file extraction actually gets more information than the advanced logical. In other words, Rabbit's extraction would have got more information than you got on your advanced logical.
[01:47:48] Speaker 12: That's correct.
[01:47:49] Speaker 6: So, one of the things that district attorney had asked you about was in reference to exhibit 237.
[01:48:02] Speaker ?: And that would be the Celebrate Report.
[01:48:03] Speaker 6: Is that correct? Correct. Basically, the caption for the extraction on the Celebrate Report.
[01:48:23] Speaker 12: This is a supplemental report. Okay. That I completed from the physical analyzer software. Okay.
[01:48:30] Speaker 6: And would that be celebrated? Yes. So, um, looking at exhibit 237, the second page, that on the very top that I'm looking at here. Can you tell me on the right, what is, what is it depicting on the right? Can you see the little box?
[01:48:59] Speaker ?: Can you see the little box?
[01:49:00] Speaker 5: I'm just going to close you. This here is the exhibit that the district attorney asked you to look at 237, right? Yes, sir.
[01:49:03] Speaker 6: Okay. And it's a Celebrate Report, right? It's a supplemental report, yes.
[01:49:06] Speaker ?: And that would be the calendar search, right?
[01:49:07] Speaker 6: The calendar supplemental report, correct. Okay. So that means that if Lindsay had appointments anywhere, it would have been, presumably, if she put it in the phone, in her calendar, right?
[01:49:16] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:49:17] Speaker 6: Okay. So when you looked at your investigation, directing your attention to the start time, what date are we talking about here? The start time is August 14th, 2022, midnight.
[01:49:26] Speaker ?: End time would be August 14th, 2022.
[01:49:26] Speaker 6: 11:15. 11:15. 11:15. Okay. Okay. So if you look down to the next slide, it would have been, presumably, if she put it in the phone, in her calendar, right?
[01:49:34] Speaker 12: Yes.
[01:49:35] Speaker 6: Okay. So when you looked at your investigation, directing your attention to the start time, what date are we talking about here?
[01:49:48] Speaker 12: The start time is August 14th, 2022, midnight. End time would be August 14th, 2022. 11:59. 11:59. Yeah.
[01:49:58] Speaker 6: Okay. So if you look down to the next one, it says, what date?
[01:50:03] Speaker 12: August 23rd, 2022. 10:00 a.m. Okay.
[01:50:06] Speaker 6: And did she make an entry on her computer on that date and time? She did, sir. Can you tell me what the entry was? The subject is 10:00 a.m., Callen, Kingston, vaccine. So Callen would be the son. She had it in her phone that he had an appointment to get a vaccine at 10:00 p.m.?
[01:50:30] Speaker 12: The time is 10:00 a.m. 10:00 a.m.
[01:50:32] Speaker 6: Okay. And the next one, what is the next one?
[01:50:36] Speaker 12: Would you like to know the subject, sir, or the date?
[01:50:39] Speaker 6: Yeah, sure. Just what the date is and then what the subject is.
[01:50:42] Speaker 12: Okay. The start time is August 23rd, 2022, 5:00 p.m. The subject of the entry is 9:45 Kingston Dawson Ear Check.
[01:50:52] Speaker 6: And that would be indicative of an appointment that she had at the pediatrician's office for Dawson's Ear Check at 9:45 in the morning. Is that correct?
[01:51:02] Speaker 12: Could be an inference, I'm not sure, but that's the entry. Okay.
[01:51:06] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:51:06] Speaker 6: Now, looking at exhibit 235, you can tell me what is this document?
[01:51:20] Speaker 12: I recognize it as a screen capture from an Axiom phone distraction. All right.
[01:51:40] Speaker 6: And you did indicate you were Axiom qualified, right? I am not, sir.
[01:51:44] Speaker 12: I'm familiar with the program as a result of my training with Great Key. Magnefrensics owns Great Key Technology. And in the training course for Great Key, process extraction is using Axiom, but I'm not certified in the software of Axiom. But you can interpret it.
[01:51:57] Speaker 6: You understand what that shows you. It's just a listing of different activities on the phone, right?
[01:52:04] Speaker 12: I'm aware of what the screen shot depicts, yes. All right.
[01:52:07] Speaker 6: Can you tell me what -- see, the highlighted one. Can you tell us what that is, the date, the time, and what it's referencing? Do you need a magnetized weapon?
[01:52:16] Speaker 12: It references a website, sir. And what's the website? Mail.google.com. Mail.google.com. Mail, like M-A-I-L, right?
[01:52:22] Speaker ?: Yes, sir.
[01:52:23] Speaker 6: Okay. Does it indicate what mail it is?
[01:52:25] Speaker 12: Does it show it on the right?
[01:52:26] Speaker 6: On the right-hand side of the box?
[01:52:29] Speaker ?: I can't do definitively determining those mailboxes. Okay. Trooper, I'm going to ask you to make sure you keep your voice up. Okay? Yes, Your Honor. Thank you. The next page is pretty much the same thing on the same date. Okay.
[01:52:34] Speaker 6: Yes, Your Honor. The next page looks pretty much the same thing on the same date. The next page looks pretty much the same thing on the same date. Okay.
[01:52:38] Speaker ?: Great. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.
[01:52:46] Speaker 13: Okay.
[01:52:47] Speaker 12: Okay. I'm going to ask you to make sure you keep your voice up. Okay.
[01:52:50] Speaker ?: Mr. Your Honor. The next page looks pretty much the same thing on the same date.
[01:52:50] Speaker 3: Okay. Can you tell us on that page who signed in under what email? All right. All right.
[01:52:54] Speaker ?: The artifact is indicating that there is a title with an e-mail.
[01:52:58] Speaker 6: Next page, it's pretty much the same thing on the same date. Can you tell us on that page who signed in under what email?
[01:53:17] Speaker 12: The artifact is indicating that there is a title with an email.
[01:53:24] Speaker 7: What's the name?
[01:53:28] Speaker 13: P-A-T-R-I-C-K-W dot C-L-A-N-C-Y at gmail.com.
[01:53:36] Speaker 6: So that's fair to say that that would be patrickclancy at gmail.com. That's his email that's signed in on Lindsay's Facebook.
[01:53:48] Speaker 12: I can't confirm that.
[01:53:49] Speaker 6: Okay. And when you were going through her phone, is it fair to say that, I mean, there wasn't much in her life that wasn't exposed to the state police and the DA's office and the investigators? I mean, your report initially was 180,000 pages of PDF, right?
[01:54:17] Speaker 12: It was a very large download, sir.
[01:54:19] Speaker 6: Does 180,000 sound about right?
[01:54:22] Speaker 12: It does.
[01:54:23] Speaker 6: So 180,000 pages on a PDF, you do a number of extractions, and then you get into the one that you were testifying about. The district attorney indicated, or you stated that it was 768 pages of text messages that she had, along with photographs, perhaps?
[01:54:40] Speaker 12: That was a timeline search. The number of items in that report are indicative only of the time frame which I was utilizing within the software.
[01:54:49] Speaker 6: Okay. So when you went through her phone, did you come across, on a Celebrate report, searching for where is the carotid artery?
[01:55:07] Speaker 12: I don't recall.
[01:55:08] Speaker 6: Did you come across, might be easier this way. This is a Celebrate report on Lindsay's phone, right? Now, I understand that you might not have been standing next to another cop going through the records and documents on her phone. You're able to recognize that as being a Celebrate report, right?
[01:55:34] Speaker 12: It is a Celebrate report, sir.
[01:55:35] Speaker 6: And it's a Celebrate report for her phone. You can tell by the numbers, right? Maybe this would help a little bit. See this here, where it talks about source file, and it's got a number, triple, quadruple zero, eight, one, one, zero, hyphen, zero, zero, zero, nine, two, five, E, and all the rest of them. That would be her phone, right?
[01:56:10] Speaker 12: I don't have that number memorized.
[01:56:12] Speaker 6: Of course not. But it would be in your report?
[01:56:15] Speaker 12: Yes, sir. Okay.
[01:56:27] Speaker 6: Celebrate, Extraction report?
[01:56:29] Speaker 12: It would depend on the supplemental report that you have, sir, whether or not that character was displayed.
[01:56:34] Speaker 6: I don't know where to look at that if you can probably ask, because this is, we agree, it's Lindsay's cell phone. Celebrate, Extraction report.
[01:56:42] Speaker 12: This item we have here, sir?
[01:56:43] Speaker 6: No, no. I'm sorry, the exhibit.
[01:56:45] Speaker 12: This is the calendar supplemental report, yes.
[01:56:47] Speaker 6: Well, Lindsay, so what's the number? You must have a number that would connect to her phone, like an address, like your home address, but in fact it would be a number, right?
[01:56:56] Speaker 12: It's a device identifier. It is not presented in the supplemental report.
[01:57:03] Speaker 6: Okay. Where would the device identifier be presented?
[01:57:08] Speaker 12: It'd be presented in the front page of the initial extraction report.
[01:57:12] Speaker 6: And that's the 780,000, or whatever it is, pages, right? You don't have that here. Certainly, 180,000 pages. You don't have that here, right? No, sir. Excuse me, Your Honor. Sure. Did you bring your report today with you? Just the report, not all the exhibits?
[01:57:51] Speaker 12: No, sir.
[01:57:52] Speaker 6: So, you would agree with me, sir, that one of the concerns as an investigator that you had is things such as looking for buzzwords like suicide, right?
[01:58:08] Speaker 12: I'm not sure I understand the question.
[01:58:10] Speaker 6: When you're looking on the target's phone, and out of this whole courtroom, the target would be Lindsay Clancy, right?
[01:58:17] Speaker 12: Yes, sir.
[01:58:18] Speaker 6: All right. And you had access to her phone, right?
[01:58:21] Speaker 12: Yes, sir.
[01:58:21] Speaker 6: And you all went into it with a search warrant, right?
[01:58:24] Speaker 12: Yes, sir.
[01:58:24] Speaker 6: And you were looking for different topics, such as suicide, drugs, killing kids, I imagine, to investigate, right? You had buzzwords.
[01:58:35] Speaker 12: Yes, sir.
[01:58:35] Speaker 6: And did you come across, for example, a search that indicates carotid artery?
[01:58:44] Speaker 12: I don't recall.
[01:58:45] Speaker 6: Did you come across a search on safari, how to slit your throat to die?
[01:58:54] Speaker 12: I don't recall.
[01:58:57] Speaker 6: Did you come across a search, can you turn airbags off on Kia Sorento?
[01:59:03] Speaker 12: I don't recall.
[01:59:04] Speaker 6: Did you know that she had a Kia Sorento?
[01:59:06] Speaker 12: I did not.
[01:59:11] Speaker 6: If I approach you with this Celebrate report, sir, does that give you the numbers for what I just went through with these surgeons?
[01:59:24] Speaker 12: The universal device identifier is a match.
[01:59:27] Speaker 6: It is a match. Okay.
[01:59:28] Speaker 12: Yes, between this document in my hand and the ones that you're holding.
[01:59:32] Speaker 6: So what's the first search on the first box?
[01:59:35] Speaker 12: The value associated with the source file is carotid artery.
[01:59:40] Speaker 6: And the next box?
[01:59:43] Speaker 12: How to slit your throat to die.
[01:59:46] Speaker 6: And the next box?
[01:59:49] Speaker 12: Can you turn airbags off on Kia Sorento?
[01:59:53] Speaker 6: These all came from Lindsay's phone, right?
[01:59:55] Speaker 12: I can't confirm that.
[01:59:56] Speaker 6: Well, it's a pretty good inference, right?
[01:59:58] Speaker 12: Yes, sir. Okay.
[02:00:00] Speaker 6: Run right off of these?
[02:00:03] Speaker 5: If we could just see them at side five.
[02:00:09] Speaker 6: And if I can, just for continuity, sir. If we're looking at what has been marked as exhibit R, S, and T for identification, if we've never seen an exhibit yet, the jury would have, but nevertheless, we can question you about it. You do agree with me that the phone identifier numbers are listed here and they're pretty much the same on these three exhibits, right?
[02:01:04] Speaker 12: Yes, sir.
[02:01:05] Speaker 6: And that would be Lindsay Clancy's phone, right?
[02:01:07] Speaker 12: I can't confirm that.
[02:01:15] Speaker 6: Yes, sir. So, I've just handed you exhibit 237, sir. Can you tell me what that exhibit is? The district attorney questioned you about it.
[02:01:25] Speaker 12: It's a supplemental report that I compiled from the Celebrite software on the calendar application.
[02:01:35] Speaker 6: Do you have access to what was referred to as the mummy text messages?
[02:01:43] Speaker 12: Not with this document, sir.
[02:01:45] Speaker 6: So, that document is the calendar that we had already gone through as far as seeing the doctor 945 and 10 o'clock appointments, right?
[02:01:55] Speaker 12: That's correct.
[02:01:55] Speaker 7: Exhibit 238.
[02:02:10] Speaker ?: Exhibit 238. All right. Exhibit 238. Exhibit 238.
[02:02:23] Speaker 6: On the exhibit, sir, this would be captioned, the mummy text message thread between Lindsay and her mother. Is that fair to say?
[02:02:43] Speaker 12: For January of 2023, sir, yes.
[02:02:45] Speaker 6: Okay, so this search was limited by the police to January of 2023 for the texts between Lindsay and her mother, right?
[02:02:55] Speaker 12: Correct, sir. It's a filtered supplemental report from Celebrite.
[02:02:59] Speaker 6: Filtered supplemental report. Okay. So, who would be, when the jury's looking at these in the jury room, who would be the blue texter? Would it be Lindsay or her mother?
[02:03:12] Speaker 12: Uh, the, you could just look at the participant delivered status sent from Lindsay owner to mummy. So, the green would be from the owner of the phone to the recipient, mummy.
[02:03:25] Speaker 6: Okay. So, green would be Lindsay, blue would be the mother.
[02:03:29] Speaker 12: That's correct.
[02:03:29] Speaker 6: All right. So, I'm going to give you Exhibit 238. And just for a representative example, I mean, looking through, will you look at September 28th at 618 in the morning?
[02:03:49] Speaker 12: Sir, can you repeat that date?
[02:03:51] Speaker 6: Yeah, sure. September 28th. Oh, you didn't do, that's right, you didn't do September, you only did January, right?
[02:03:57] Speaker 12: Sir, this exhibit is just for January of 2023.
[02:03:59] Speaker 6: Okay, I apologize. Let's jump to January then. Now, let's say January 3rd, 835 in the morning. Do you have that? One moment, sir. Sure.
[02:04:29] Speaker 12: Yes, sir.
[02:04:30] Speaker 6: And what did Lindsay say to her mother on January 3rd at 835 in the morning?
[02:04:35] Speaker 12: At 59 seconds, sir? Yeah. I'm all right, period. Anxious about meeting with the whole psychiatry team.
[02:04:45] Speaker 6: How about the next message that she sent at January 3rd at 837 in the morning?
[02:04:53] Speaker 12: In 31 seconds. Sure. I'm just worried they won't send me home soon.
[02:04:59] Speaker 6: Now, do you know, as a police officer working on this case, what she meant, send me home? Do you know where she was on January 3rd?
[02:05:07] Speaker 12: It would be an inference only, sir.
[02:05:09] Speaker 6: That's all right.
[02:05:10] Speaker 12: You can infer. I believe she was in a medical facility. The McLean Hospital. I recall that hospital being mentioned.
[02:05:18] Speaker 6: And then on January 8th, sir, at 1044 in the morning, was there a text from her mother to Lindsay, if you know? 1044. When the mother asked, did you sleep good?
[02:05:37] Speaker 12: One second, sir. It's cut off by the clip here. 1044 and 30 seconds a.m.? Yeah. From mommy to Lindsay, great. That would be fun. Sleep good last night, question mark.
[02:05:50] Speaker 6: And did she respond? She meaning Lindsay? She did. What'd she say? I actually did. And this was on January 8th, sir? That's correct. January 10th. Could you pull that up, please? At 948 in the morning.
[02:06:14] Speaker 12: I apologize, sir. Can you repeat the time on the 10th?
[02:06:17] Speaker 6: 948 in the morning, beginning with mother asking questions of Lindsay. Still sleeping good, question mark.
[02:06:40] Speaker 12: I have a message at 948 in 15 seconds from mommy to Lindsay.
[02:06:44] Speaker 6: Okay.
[02:06:45] Speaker 12: What is that? Good morning. How are you doing today, question mark? And what did she say in response? Good, period, period, at the gym with the kids.
[02:06:54] Speaker 6: And what was the date?
[02:06:55] Speaker 12: Was that January 10th? 2023, 948, 21 seconds a.m.
[02:07:01] Speaker 6: So, do you have January 10th in front of you, not the 23rd?
[02:07:06] Speaker 12: My corrections are January 10th, 2023 at 948 in 21 seconds.
[02:07:11] Speaker 6: All right. And what did the mother ask her?
[02:07:15] Speaker 12: Nice, comma, still sleeping good.
[02:07:18] Speaker 6: Did she ask, are you feeling better during the day? And she said, so far, a little bit?
[02:07:22] Speaker 12: Would you like me to read that, sir? Yeah. At January 10th, 2023, 953, 01 seconds a.m., are you feeling any better during the day, from mommy to Lindsay?
[02:07:39] Speaker 6: And go to January 12th, 1109 in the morning.
[02:07:49] Speaker 12: Yes, sir. What did she say? What did mommy say? From mommy to Lindsay, January 12th, 2023, 1109, 32 seconds a.m., still feeling a little better, question mark.
[02:08:01] Speaker 6: And how did she respond? How did Lindsay respond? A little bit. And then on January 16th, well, wait a minute. January 14th at 105, I think, in the afternoon. Can you pull that one up? Yes, sir, one moment. Okay. Do you recall where it starts as, I'm waiting for the day, and that would be from Lindsay to her mother.
[02:08:22] Speaker 12: Can you repeat the time one more time, sir?
[02:08:24] Speaker 6: 105.
[02:08:26] Speaker 12: A.m. or p.m.? P.m. And this is on the 14th, sir? Yes, sir. Yep. January 14th. I have a message from Lindsay to mommy, January 14th, 2023, 105, 13 seconds p.m. Saying, about the same, period, period, period, hanging in there and waiting for the day I wake up and feel me.
[02:08:52] Speaker 6: So she says, waiting for the day I wake up feeling like me, right? That's correct, sir. Okay. And then, on the 16th of January, if you can pull that one up. January 16th at 1020.
[02:09:16] Speaker 12: I have a message from Lindsay to mommy. January 16th, 2023, 1020, 24 seconds a.m. And what did it say? It was fun, period, period, period. Cora and Dawson enjoyed, period, period, period.
[02:09:57] Speaker 6: Now, did it make reference at any point in the text that it was, that was a reference to the Cape Codder? Is that in there at all? Do you see it? It was fun.
[02:10:07] Speaker 12: Referring to what was fun, if you know. Not in this particular message, sir. Okay.
[02:10:14] Speaker 6: And then, continuing on, sir. January 18th, would you agree that she inquired of her mother? Mother asked, are you starting a new med? She said, I did. I started it two nights ago. And basically, the mother was asking her about her medications and how she felt and how she was doing, right?
[02:10:34] Speaker 12: One moment, sir. I just have to get to that point.
[02:10:46] Speaker 6: You know what? That's okay, because it's an exhibit and the jurors are going to have it and they can take a look at it. So that's okay. We're good on that.
[02:10:52] Speaker 12: Okay. Don't answer the question.
[02:10:53] Speaker 6: No, you don't have to answer it. That's all right.
[02:10:55] Speaker 12: Okay, sir.
[02:10:58] Speaker 6: Now, on January 24th, the district attorney asked you about the Google searches, Googling 3V restaurant, looking at the distance from the house, the 3V restaurant, looking at menus. You recall answering her questions on that? I do, sir. And you're familiar also, prior to that, on the same day, that she had taken the baby to a doctor and that Pat texted her and asked basically, you know, how did it work out? Do you recall that?
[02:11:45] Speaker 12: I recall the doctor's appointment. I don't recall the text.
[02:11:47] Speaker 6: Do you recall that Lindsay sent a picture of her and her children? Did you think of that afternoon?
[02:11:55] Speaker 12: I recall the snowman photo. I'm sorry? I recall the snowman photo.
[02:11:59] Speaker 6: Okay. And that was on the 24th of January, right?
[02:12:02] Speaker 12: It was, sir.
[02:12:03] Speaker 6: Do you recall that Pat texted back and said something like, oh, wow, you're a good mom? Do you recall that?
[02:12:09] Speaker 12: I don't recall the text.
[02:12:21] Speaker 6: One of the other searches that you did would be, are you aware that there were searches for medical, such as questions regarding bipolar symptoms, psychosis, can you be in DKA without high blood sugar, page after page after page, trazodone, trazodone, what is the effect of trazodone, Walbutrin, how do you feel on trazodone, Ativan addiction, Prozac, trazone, going on and on and on. You guys saw this on her search on her phone to celebrate, right?
[02:13:01] Speaker 12: I recall those searches, sir.
[02:13:02] Speaker 6: Okay. Could I offer this, Your Honor? This would be medical searches on her phone.
[02:13:06] Speaker 12: Any objection?
[02:13:07] Speaker 6: No.
[02:13:08] Speaker 3: All right. That may be admitted.
[02:13:14] Speaker 4: 239.
[02:13:15] Speaker 6: Great. Thank you. Do you recall, sir, that there was also a search for schizophrenia? I'll say that.
[02:13:30] Speaker 12: Not specifically.
[02:13:32] Speaker 6: Well, if I approach you, sir, in your extraction book, does that increase your memory that there
[02:13:39] Speaker ?: was a search on her phone for schizophrenia?
[02:13:43] Speaker 12: Yes, sir.
[02:13:52] Speaker ?: Okay.
[02:13:53] Speaker 6: What was the date of that search?
[02:13:56] Speaker 12: January 19th, 2023, 9.58.01 seconds, AM.
[02:14:01] Speaker 6: Okay. Put that right here for a minute. How about psychosis? Did she search for psychosis as well?
[02:14:09] Speaker 12: If I may.
[02:14:09] Speaker 6: Of course.
[02:14:13] Speaker 12: There is a keyword search in psychosis and a Google search.
[02:14:17] Speaker 6: And that would be a keyword search that you said in a Google search on January 20th?
[02:14:24] Speaker 12: January 20th, 2023, 8.39 and 0 seconds, PM.
[02:14:29] Speaker 6: Okay. Then there, is there also a search for Seroquel?
[02:14:39] Speaker 12: Seroquel is part of a search, yes.
[02:14:41] Speaker 6: What was the rest of the search?
[02:14:44] Speaker 12: On Seroquel, feel like I can't have a conversation.
[02:14:47] Speaker 6: Okay. And then it goes on on a number of other inquiries as well, correct? Dealing with Seroquel.
[02:14:53] Speaker 12: That's correct, sir.
[02:14:53] Speaker 6: Okay. And then further, do you recall that there were a number of pages where she Googled and was inquiring about suicide?
[02:15:07] Speaker 12: Yes, sir.
[02:15:08] Speaker 6: And can you tell us when she was Googling suicide?
[02:15:12] Speaker 12: December 29th, 2022, 1.02, 14 seconds, PM. Okay.
[02:15:19] Speaker 6: And would you agree that she also Googled on a number of occasions, sleep?
[02:15:32] Speaker 12: Sleep is one keyword and part of a Google search, correct?
[02:15:35] Speaker 6: And then there's a number of pages that are attached to that dealing with the search for sleep, correct?
[02:15:43] Speaker 12: That's correct, sir.
[02:15:44] Speaker 6: Do you know the timeframe that we're talking about from the Celebrate search?
[02:15:58] Speaker 12: Multiple entries, sir. Majority of them are in January of 2023.
[02:16:02] Speaker 6: Also, much larger package of searches for Trazodone, is that correct?
[02:16:15] Speaker 12: Yes, sir. Trazodone is one keyword as part of multiple Google searches.
[02:16:21] Speaker 6: Correct. It's all left.
[02:16:27] Speaker 12: Correct.
[02:16:28] Speaker 6: What's the timeframe?
[02:16:30] Speaker 12: If I may just remove this, sir.
[02:16:32] Speaker 6: Yeah, sure.
[02:16:35] Speaker 12: Earliest entry is December 31st, 2022, 4.07, 48 seconds, PM. Last entry, all on the same date, December 31st, 2022, 7.06, 39 seconds, PM. Okay.
[02:16:50] Speaker 6: She also, on her phone, is a search for benzo withdrawals, right?
[02:16:57] Speaker 12: Yes, sir. Benzo is listed as a keyword as part of another search.
[02:17:01] Speaker 6: Also, after benzo, it says withdrawals, right?
[02:17:05] Speaker 12: Correct.
[02:17:07] Speaker 6: And what's the timeframe for that, please?
[02:17:10] Speaker 12: January 20th, 2023, 8, 11, 57 seconds, PM.
[02:17:14] Speaker ?: Okay.
[02:17:14] Speaker 6: And also, a search for Wellbutrin.
[02:17:22] Speaker 12: Yes, sir. Wellbutrin is a keyword as part of a Google search.
[02:17:25] Speaker ?: Does it say what the timeframe is?
[02:17:27] Speaker 12: It does.
[02:17:28] Speaker ?: What is it?
[02:17:29] Speaker 12: January 16th, 2023, 9, 14, 47 seconds, AM.
[02:17:34] Speaker 6: Okay. And a search for McLean.
[02:17:40] Speaker 12: Correct, sir. McLean is part of a keyword of a Google search.
[02:17:45] Speaker 6: What's the timeframe?
[02:17:46] Speaker 12: December 29th, 2022, 8.52, 37 seconds, AM.
[02:17:53] Speaker ?: Okay.
[02:17:56] Speaker 6: Is there also a search for insomnia?
[02:18:02] Speaker 12: Yes, sir. Insomnia is part of a keyword of a Google search.
[02:18:05] Speaker 6: What's the timeframe?
[02:18:07] Speaker 12: December 31st, 2022, 7, 12, 58 seconds, PM.
[02:18:12] Speaker 6: That's December 21st, did you say?
[02:18:15] Speaker 12: December 31st, 2022, sir.
[02:18:17] Speaker ?: Okay.
[02:18:19] Speaker 6: And is there a search for keyword ketamine? K-E-T-A-M-I-N-E.
[02:18:28] Speaker 12: Yes, sir. Ketamine is part of a Google search. It's a keyword within the Google search.
[02:18:33] Speaker 7: What's the timeframe?
[02:18:35] Speaker 12: For this entry, January 20th, 2023, 8.39, 0 seconds, PM.
[02:18:43] Speaker 7: You also, sir, pulled up on Celebrate for Lamectal.
[02:18:50] Speaker 12: Yes, the word Lamectal is part of a Google search.
[02:18:54] Speaker 6: And what's the timeframe?
[02:18:55] Speaker 12: January 16th, 2023, 9, 23, 13 seconds, AM.
[02:19:01] Speaker 6: Okay. Is there also a keyword search for post-pattom and Google searches for post-pattom depression and various aspects of post-pattom?
[02:19:21] Speaker 12: Yes, sir.
[02:19:22] Speaker 6: And what's the timeframe for it?
[02:19:24] Speaker 12: They all occur within January of 2023 with the earliest date, meaning the 11th of January, 2023, and proceeding all the way to the 19th of January, 2023.
[02:19:47] Speaker 6: The earliest entry appears to be December 6th, 2022, 9, 17, 0, 5 seconds, AM,
[02:20:02] Speaker 12: with the last entry being January 20th, 2023, 8, 13, 48 seconds, PM.
[02:20:20] Speaker 6: And search for bipolar.
[02:20:29] Speaker 12: Keyword bipolar is part of a Google search, correct.
[02:20:31] Speaker 6: Bracketed in. What's the time that started? When did it end?
[02:20:36] Speaker 12: The earliest entry from this report is December 29th, 2022, 9, AM, 37 seconds, and the last entry is January 13th, 2023, 1, 38, 42 seconds, PM.
[02:20:53] Speaker 6: And conazepam was a search as well, correct?
[02:20:58] Speaker 12: That's correct, sir.
[02:20:59] Speaker 6: And can you just give me an idea of what's the timeframe on that?
[02:21:03] Speaker 12: All of the searches in this report indicate January 18th, 2023, and the morning hours from 11.26 AM to 11.27 AM.
[02:21:12] Speaker 6: Okay. And the next one would be Ativan. Let's see where it says Ativan. What's the first, just give me the first month. What's the stat in the search for Ativan?
[02:21:23] Speaker 12: The earliest timeframe, sir? December 31st, 2022, 7.06, 30 seconds, PM.
[02:21:30] Speaker 6: Okay. Next one would be Amitripline, correct?
[02:21:37] Speaker 12: I'm not sure on the pronunciation, but it appears to be that way.
[02:21:40] Speaker 6: Okay. When was the Amitripline search? When did it start? When did it begin?
[02:21:47] Speaker 12: January 16th, 2023, 11.01, 28 seconds, AM, with the last entry being January 23rd, 2023, 8.17, 58 seconds, PM.
[02:22:00] Speaker 6: And then on January 20th, 2023, was she searching intrusive?
[02:22:12] Speaker 12: That's correct.
[02:22:13] Speaker ?: That's correct.
[02:22:13] Speaker 12: Okay.
[02:22:15] Speaker 6: And then finally, sir, on January 19th, 2023, was she searching hallucinations?
[02:22:24] Speaker 12: Yes, sir, 10, 33, 49 seconds, AM.
[02:22:28] Speaker 6: You're welcome, sir.
[02:22:36] Speaker 12: I don't know.
[02:23:06] Speaker ?: I don't know.
[02:23:36] Speaker 5: Okay, those may be admitted.
[02:23:59] Speaker 3: Do you want to admit it's individual is one individual or I want to say I don't care. Why don't we do that? I hate to do this to you. Why don't we do it individually just might be easier down the road.
[02:24:22] Speaker ?: Why don't we do it individually. Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually? Why don't we do it individually?
[02:26:08] Speaker 6: Why don't we do it individually? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
[02:26:12] Speaker ?: I apologize.
[02:26:13] Speaker 6: I neglected to ask about this celebrated extraction report from Lindsay's phone. This is another extraction search on her phone.
[02:26:31] Speaker 12: Yes, sir. It's a supplemental report for searched items.
[02:26:34] Speaker 6: And looking at that, basically there are a number of search terms in there such as premade goody bags, and that would have been on December 31st, is that right?
[02:26:54] Speaker 12: Yes, sir.
[02:26:55] Speaker 6: All right. What's the next one underneath that that would be on December 31st?
[02:27:00] Speaker 12: Child with bloated belly and lethargy.
[02:27:03] Speaker 6: How about the next one on December 31st?
[02:27:06] Speaker 12: Children's Motrin stores.
[02:27:08] Speaker 6: What about the next one on the 31st?
[02:27:11] Speaker 12: Children's Motrin. Next one. Is children's Tylenol the same as infants? Next one. Six month old whale windows.
[02:27:21] Speaker 6: That would be W-A-L-E, whatever that means. Yes, sir. Okay. Next one.
[02:27:27] Speaker 12: Earth's best organic baby food. Next one. Earth's best organic infant. Next one. Earth's best organic infant formula.
[02:27:39] Speaker 6: Next one.
[02:27:40] Speaker 12: Nova Plymouth NOVA. Next one. Best kids movies.
[02:27:45] Speaker 6: Next one.
[02:27:46] Speaker 12: Nova trampoline lark. Next one. Unicorn picture.
[02:27:50] Speaker ?: Unicorn picture.
[02:27:50] Speaker 12: Unicorn picture. Unicorn picture.
[02:27:52] Speaker ?: Free coloring. Just read them right down. Yes, sir.
[02:27:54] Speaker 6: Just rip right through it. Paw Patrol saves.
[02:27:56] Speaker 12: I'll spell it. Paw Patrol saves the M-E-R-E-K-R. Twin girls bed. Cape Codder Resort.
[02:28:01] Speaker 6: How much formula for eight M-I-N-T-H. Chuck E. Cheese.
[02:28:04] Speaker 12: Chuck E. Cheese. Chuck E. Cheese. Chuck E. Cheese.
[02:28:07] Speaker ?: And I'll give you a second one.
[02:28:08] Speaker 12: I'll give you a second one. I'll give you a second one. I'll give you a second one. I'll give you a second one. I'll give you a second one. I'll give you a second one. I'll give you a second one. I'll give you a second one. I'll give you a second one. I'll give you a second one. I'll give you a second one. Chuck E. Cheese. Children's Motrin. Children's Motrin Stores. ADC Temple Touch Thermometer. Can I just interrupt you?
[02:28:31] Speaker 6: Yes, sir. What are we up to for date right now?
[02:28:34] Speaker 12: The last item I read was ADC Temple Touch Thermometer, sir. And the date was January 17th, 2023. Time 2:19.03 seconds, PM. Okay.
[02:28:43] Speaker 6: I just wanted to get a frame on the time. Yes, sir.
[02:28:45] Speaker 12: Eight month milestones. Fluffy Slime Recipe. Fluffy Slime Recipe. UTI Symptoms Children. Kids Miralax. Miralax for Kids. And what was the date on that? The last date on the page for Miralax for Kids. January 24th, 2023. 4:47, 31 seconds, PM.
[02:29:09] Speaker 6: Okay, finish these three more.
[02:29:11] Speaker 12: Yes, sir. CVS Pharmacy. Pedialax. Pedialax.
[02:29:15] Speaker ?: Thank you, sir.
[02:29:16] Speaker 6: I'd offer this, Judge. All right, that may be admitted.
[02:29:20] Speaker ?: Yeah, 261. That's it. Yes, sir. And then finally, sir, I'm approaching you with, like it would be it. report. You can recognize that document, right?
[02:29:27] Speaker 3: Yes, sir. And then finally, sir, I'm approaching you with, like it would be a report.
[02:29:30] Speaker ?: You can recognize that document, right? Yes, sir. Right. And what is that? Right. And what is that? It doesn't have the thing that they had around the top, but that's all. It's a supplemental report, sir, and it appears to be. Yes, sir. Right. And what is that? It doesn't have the thing that they had around the top. That's all. It's a supplemental report, sir, and it appears to be. text messages. Okay.
[02:29:43] Speaker 6: Are you able to know when the photograph of the two kids and the snowman was sent to Pat by Lindsay?
[02:29:48] Speaker ?: Do you know when?
[02:29:49] Speaker 6: Is it on the 24th? If you know. Yes, sir. I'm approaching you with, like it would be a report. You can recognize that document, right?
[02:29:54] Speaker ?: Yes, sir. Right.
[02:29:56] Speaker 12: And what is that?
[02:29:57] Speaker 6: It doesn't have the thing that they had around the top, that's all.
[02:30:01] Speaker 12: It's a supplemental report, sir, and it appears to be text messages. Okay.
[02:30:06] Speaker 6: Are you able to know when the photograph of the two kids and the snowman was sent to Pat by Lindsay? Do you know when? Is it on the 24th? If you know.
[02:30:17] Speaker 12: I would have to look at the extraction.
[02:30:19] Speaker 6: So, understanding jury would be able to be looking at the photo and has that little history. If we look at this report, you see where it says Lindsay owner, and then over here, it says cutie. Yes, sir. So, is that from Pat to Lindsay?
[02:30:43] Speaker 12: That's correct.
[02:30:44] Speaker 6: And what's the date and the time?
[02:30:46] Speaker 12: January 24th, 2023, 8:19:45 a.m. Okay.
[02:30:52] Speaker 6: And what's the next one that you see? And just say to us, like, it's Pat to Lindsay or Lindsay to Pat, and what is the message? You don't have to go through all the numbers. Yes, sir.
[02:31:01] Speaker 12: Next item. Do you want me to read the date, sir? Yeah, sure. Just read it. Next item. January 24th, 2023, 8:36, 17 seconds a.m. Lindsay to Pat loved an image, which is a reflection that someone loved to use the feature within iMessage to like an image.
[02:31:20] Speaker 6: Like an image, like a photograph, right? Correct, sir.
[02:31:22] Speaker 12: Okay. What else?
[02:31:24] Speaker 6: Want me to keep going?
[02:31:25] Speaker ?: Sure.
[02:31:26] Speaker 12: Okay. January 24th, 2023, 8:42, 16 seconds a.m. From Patrick to Lindsay. How's it going? And you know what?
[02:31:36] Speaker 6: If it's the same date rather than taking the time, just go right down and read the messages. That would...
[02:31:42] Speaker 12: Receive, sir. The date is the same for all the messages. From Patrick to Lindsay. How's it going? Lindsay to Patrick. Good. Lindsay to Patrick. Okay. Her urine looked good, so nothing going wrong with her kidneys. Few. Patrick to Lindsay. Good. With a smiley face. Lindsay to Patrick. No message content. Patrick to Lindsay. Oh, wow. Patrick to Lindsay. You're a good mama. Lindsay to Patrick. Smiley face with hearts. Lindsay to Patrick. Blank. Patrick to Lindsay. Laughed at an image. Lindsay to Patrick. Any chance you want to do takeout from 3V. Period, period, period. I didn't cook anything. Period, period, period. It's been a long day. Smiley face. Patrick to Lindsay. Yeah. Smiley face. Lindsay to Patrick. Okie dokie. Smiley face. Okay.
[02:32:42] Speaker 6: I'd offer that, Your Honor. Thank you.
[02:32:44] Speaker ?: Yes, sir.
[02:32:45] Speaker 5: One of these text messages are in Evidence Exhibit 23. All of them.
[02:32:49] Speaker 3: All of them. Thank you, Mike.
[02:32:52] Speaker 6: Finally, District Attorney spent some time asking you about modifications to a photograph, and I think it was of the little baby. Do you recall that line of questioning?
[02:33:10] Speaker 12: Yes, sir.
[02:33:11] Speaker 6: What did that mean? Does that mean that someone, or Lindsay or someone, on her phone changed the photograph of the little baby? Is that what that means?
[02:33:20] Speaker 12: It means that the photo was edited in some fashion.
[02:33:23] Speaker 6: So that could be like coloring?
[02:33:24] Speaker 12: It could be a variety of things.
[02:33:27] Speaker 6: Like what?
[02:33:28] Speaker 12: As I indicated in my early testimony, it could be that someone took a live photo, and instead of having it be a live photo, which is multiple bursts of images, they took it down to just a single photo.
[02:33:39] Speaker 6: Anything else that can be modified?
[02:33:42] Speaker 12: Multiple things, but from the extraction, that's the only thing I was able to determine.
[02:33:47] Speaker 6: So you weren't involved in the search of the Clancy House on the 24th, 25th, were you?
[02:33:54] Speaker 12: No, sir.
[02:33:55] Speaker 6: Were you aware that there were photographs of the kids hanging in virtually every room, kitchen, living rooms, bedrooms? Did you know that as an investigator on this case?
[02:34:05] Speaker 12: Sir, I was not involved in the search.
[02:34:07] Speaker 6: I was not aware of that, sir.
[02:34:22] Speaker 3: Thank you.
[02:34:27] Speaker 5: All of the exhibits that the defense counsel just put in about the searches for psychosis or certain drugs. Are those all available in the DISC Exhibit 236 in some of those reports where you can search the word and all of those mentions will come up? Yes.
[02:34:48] Speaker 12: .
[02:34:49] Speaker ?: .
[02:35:18] Speaker 5: Thank you. The one the searches about psychosis. Some of those searches were for psychosis symptoms on January 19, 2023. Is that correct?
[02:35:35] Speaker ?: That's correct.
[02:35:36] Speaker 5: The person using the phone looking it up was looking up to find out what the symptoms of someone would be experiencing if they had psychosis, correct?
[02:35:50] Speaker 12: It's a keyword search for psychosis symptoms.
[02:35:54] Speaker 5: You're asking questions about the chats between Lindsey and her mother in Exhibit 238. Correct?
[02:36:07] Speaker 12: Yes, ma'am.
[02:36:09] Speaker ?: There's a text message from her mother to Linda.
[02:36:24] Speaker 5: on January 19th, 2023, which states I'll bring it Saturday, never know what treasures I'll find in the attic. Correct? That's correct ma'am. So you need to indicate that her mother is going to visit her that Saturday, correct? From the text message content. It's an inference. Those are also a text message. From Lindsay's mother to Lindsay on January 22nd, which would have 2023, which would have been the Sunday. After the Saturday visit in which her mother says enjoyed seeing everyone this weekend. Nice to see you doing better.
[02:37:47] Speaker ?: That's correct. I have nothing further.
[02:38:07] Speaker 5: All right. Mr. Rankin.
[02:38:09] Speaker 6: Just very briefly, kind of like a housekeeping thing, if I could, Judge. I'm approaching you with a number of text messages. Would you agree with me, again, that this came off of Lindsay's phone, and it would be text messages between Patrick Clancy and Lindsay.
[02:38:28] Speaker ?: Kind of flip through them all, but trust me, one of the others. Yes, sir.
[02:38:30] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[02:38:31] Speaker ?: That's correct, sir.
[02:38:31] Speaker 6: Okay.
[02:38:32] Speaker 12: And then finally, I'm handing you, again, extractions from Lindsay's phone, and flip through them if you wish.
[02:38:45] Speaker 6: It would be between Lindsay and Sue Clancy, her mother-in-law, Patrick's mother-in-law. It says Sue Clancy. That's correct, sir.
[02:39:04] Speaker ?: Okay. I'd offer these to you, Your Honor. Objection. All right. I can see Council's sidebar. It's UNB, right? In the application.
[02:39:11] Speaker 3: Right.
[02:39:12] Speaker 7: That's all I have. Thank you, sir.
[02:39:14] Speaker 3: Aye. Attorney Sprague, anything further?
[02:39:16] Speaker ?: No, Your Honor. All right. Thank you, sir. You may step down. Thank you. Thank you, sir. You may step down. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you.
[02:39:25] Speaker 4: Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir.
[02:39:28] Speaker 6: Thank you, sir. All right. Attorney Sprague, anything further?
[02:39:31] Speaker 3: No, Your Honor. All right. Thank you, sir. You may step down. Thank you.
[02:39:36] Speaker ?: All right.
[02:39:37] Speaker 3: Members of the jury, it's 1 o'clock, so 1:01, so they'll hold that against me. So we're going to take the afternoon recess at this point. I'm going to ask you to be ready to come back at 2 o'clock in the next witness. My instructions are the same. During the break, don't talk about this case. Don't do any research. Don't read anything. Don't listen to anything. And then we'll see you back here about 2 o'clock. Okay? Thank you. Court.
[02:40:14] Speaker ?: All rise. Good. Are you closing the notebooks? Case learning chairs, please. This way, please. I apologize. I just. When I introduce the records of social health, actually I put in.
[02:40:49] Speaker 6: It does not reference to the actual medical record that I have, so if you have an objection to the substance status, it's the appointment. Right.
[02:41:11] Speaker 5: I'm sorry, I just missed the part where you said it's different than what you submitted.
[02:41:18] Speaker 6: Yeah, what I submitted is just like a cover letter and some other things. I thought I submitted the medical record.
[02:41:24] Speaker 5: Oh, no objection.
[02:41:25] Speaker 3: All right, so you want to substitute those? Yeah, sure.
[02:41:28] Speaker 2: Is it from this new batch? Yeah.
[02:41:30] Speaker ?: No, thank you.
[02:41:31] Speaker 3: All right, all right, thank you. All right, so we'll be in recess until about 2 o'clock. Court.
[02:41:36] Speaker 1: All right, all right.
[02:41:41] Speaker ?: Yesterday.
[02:41:51] Speaker 1: This was back in session. You may be seated.
[02:41:53] Speaker 2: Your Honor, for the purpose of the record, we'll return back to the matter. For us is Lindsay Clancy. All parties are present, excluding the jury. All right.
[02:42:00] Speaker 3: Council, we ready for the jury? Yes. Aye. Thank you.
[02:42:33] Speaker 7: Court, all rise. Jury's answer.
[02:43:02] Speaker 2: Your Honor, for the purpose of the record, we will return back to the trial of Commonwealth v. Lindsay Clancy. All parties are present, including the defendant and including the 18 jurors.
[02:43:13] Speaker 3: All right. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Thank you, members of the jury. We're going to now return to the Commonwealth's presentation. Ms. Sprague. Thank you, Your Honor. Commonwealth calls
[02:43:21] Speaker 5: Joshua McGelkin.
[02:43:29] Speaker 7: Good afternoon, sir. Do you stop right here? We can write up the clerk. Good afternoon.
[02:43:44] Speaker 8: You saw Ms. Sprague. Thank you, Your Honor. Good afternoon. Can you please state and spell
[02:43:53] Speaker 3: your name for the record? Joshua McCelligan, M-C-K-E-L-L-I-G-A-N. Where do you work? Massachusetts State Police. How long have you been with the
[02:44:02] Speaker 5: State Police? Since December 2013? In January of 2023, where were you assigned? To the Plymouth
[02:44:08] Speaker 14: County District Attorney's Office. And what was your role there? I was a Trooper assigned to the Homicide and
[02:44:14] Speaker 5: Major Crime Section. And could you tell us, within that unit, what the role of a Case Officer is? A Case Officer is assigned to the
[02:44:22] Speaker 14: Trooper assigned to the Homicide and Major Crime Section. And could you tell us, within that unit, what the role of a Case Officer is? A Case Officer is assigned to the
[02:44:24] Speaker 5: Trooper assigned to the Homicide and Major Crime Section. And could you tell us, within that unit, what the role of a Case Officer is? A Case Officer is assigned to the
[02:44:36] Speaker 14: Homicide and Major Crime Section. And what the role of a Case Officer is assigned to the Homicide and Major Crime Section? And what the role of a Case Officer is assigned to the Homicide and Major Crime Section? And what the case officer is assigned to the Homicide and Major Crime Section. And what the role of a Case
[02:44:54] Speaker 5: Officer is assigned to the Homicide and Major Crime Section? And what the role of a Case Officer is assigned to the Homicide? And what the role of a Case Officer is assigned to the Homicide and Major Crime Section? And what the role of a Case a Case Officer in terms of managing or collecting information?
[02:45:08] Speaker 14: Is to try to gather everything. And then we try to keep track of what's been going on with the investigation.
[02:45:14] Speaker 5: And so within the State Police Detective Unit at the Plymouth County DA's office, there are a group of troopers that work there, correct? Yes. And do you work as a team on any homicide investigations you're working on?
[02:45:26] Speaker 7: Yes.
[02:45:27] Speaker 5: And the Case Officer, is it their role to collect information and evidence from the other troopers as they gather it?
[02:45:33] Speaker 7: Yes.
[02:45:34] Speaker 5: Do you have a supervisor when you are the Case Officer?
[02:45:37] Speaker 7: Yes.
[02:45:38] Speaker 5: I want to direct your attention to January 24, 2023. Did you learn that day of an incident that had happened at 47 Summer Street in Duxbury? Yes. I did. What time did you learn about that approximately? About 6:45 PM?
[02:45:52] Speaker 14: Yes.
[02:45:53] Speaker 5: PM.
[02:45:54] Speaker 14: Yes.
[02:45:55] Speaker 5: And how did you learn that information?
[02:45:58] Speaker 14: The duty lieutenant in the State Police Headquarters in Middleborough called me.
[02:46:03] Speaker 5: Once you had that information, what did you do?
[02:46:06] Speaker 14: I called my supervisor and then responded to Duxbury.
[02:46:11] Speaker 5: And where in Duxbury did you respond?
[02:46:13] Speaker 14: I went to Duxbury Police Station.
[02:46:15] Speaker 5: And at that point in time, did you know that you were going to be the Case Officer for this case?
[02:46:19] Speaker 14: Not when I responded, but at the police station, I was informed I was going to be.
[02:46:24] Speaker 5: And at some point in time, did you go to 47 Summer Street in Duxbury? I did. And when was that?
[02:46:32] Speaker 14: After I got a search warrant, I went to the house. It was probably, I think, around early morning, between 3:00 and 4:00, sometime like that. Between 3:00 and 4:00 AM?
[02:46:44] Speaker 5: Yes. So it would be the early morning hours of January 25th, 2023? Yes. And did you take part in the search of the home?
[02:46:53] Speaker 14: I did not.
[02:46:54] Speaker 5: What was your role there at the home that night, or in the early morning hours?
[02:46:59] Speaker 14: I just went to observe the house, just to see what the scene in the house looked like.
[02:47:04] Speaker 5: So other officers were conducting the search?
[02:47:06] Speaker 14: Yes.
[02:47:07] Speaker 5: At the scene, did you eventually walk through the house? Yes. And was that before or after the search was executed? After the search. At some point in time, did you go into the master bedroom on the second floor?
[02:47:22] Speaker 14: Yes.
[02:47:23] Speaker 5: And what did you observe in that room?
[02:47:25] Speaker 14: I remember a tent style, like covering a crib, I believe. There was a mirror in front of me. To the left, there was the bed. And then I remember blood on the floor.
[02:47:40] Speaker 5: And you said to the left, but pointed with your right arm?
[02:47:45] Speaker 14: No, it was my left hand.
[02:47:46] Speaker 5: Your left, okay. Yes. So, you go into the bedroom and what do you, do you see anything on the floor, on the walls, the bedding, anything?
[02:47:54] Speaker 14: Yes. Just going off of memory, I remember there was blood on the floor. And the mirror was kind of like straight ahead from the entrance of the door.
[02:48:01] Speaker ?: Okay.
[02:48:02] Speaker 5: And was a video taken of the house that included that room in particular? Yes. I'd like to move to submit the scene video from the homeless the next exhibit.
[02:48:11] Speaker 3: Any objection? No. That may be admitted.
[02:48:14] Speaker 5: And if we could play the portion of the video for the master bedroom. Sure.
[02:48:23] Speaker ?: Sure. Sure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Sir, when you went into the master bedroom. Did you see blood sprayed all over the walls and everywhere? No. And fair to say that the video shows on the floor. Yes. Thank you. Thank you.
[02:51:37] Speaker 5: Sir, when you went into the master bedroom, did you see blood sprayed all over the walls and everywhere? No. Did you say that the video shows all of the walls in the bedroom and doesn't show any spatter or anything on the walls? Yes. Did you also go outside into the backyard and look at the exterior of the home?
[02:52:10] Speaker 14: Yes.
[02:52:11] Speaker 5: We could have the photos, please.
[02:52:26] Speaker ?: If we could zoom in on the top window.
[02:52:27] Speaker 5: Does this photo show the condition of the upstairs window, the second floor window that leads to the master bedroom? Yes. And the screen there in the video, is that how it was when you saw it that night? Yes. Pushed out? Yes.
[02:52:48] Speaker 7: And if we could see the next photo.
[02:52:49] Speaker 5: Actually, we can go back to the first one and zoom in in the middle there between the two windows. These areas of red, brown stains on the exterior of the house, did you observe those that night on the early morning hours of January 25th, 2023? Yes.
[02:53:25] Speaker ?: And then the third photo, please.
[02:53:25] Speaker 5: We could zoom in on the, in there. Would this be, this third photo, would this be the first floor window below the master bedroom window? Yes. And these, um, red brown stains on the shingles and then on the, uh, window ledge there, were those there in the early morning hours of January 25th, 2023? Yes. Could we have these three photos marked as the next exhibit on the desk? Any objections?
[02:54:01] Speaker 3: They may be admitted.
[02:54:03] Speaker 5: Now as the investigation proceeded did you learn or did other officers learn from Patrick Clancy that the defendant was on some psychiatric medication? Yes. And was that information relayed to you in terms of preparing the search warrant? Yes. And is that why you included prescription medication in the search warrant?
[02:54:36] Speaker 7: Yes.
[02:54:37] Speaker 5: At that point in time did you or any of the other officers know that the defendant had crushed up pills and taken them that night?
[02:54:48] Speaker 6: No.
[02:54:51] Speaker 5: At some point in time did Patrick Clancy bring pill bottles to the state police and turn them over? Yes he did.
[02:54:58] Speaker 14: Yes he did.
[02:54:59] Speaker 5: And where did he say those were from?
[02:55:01] Speaker 14: In the center console of his truck, not the top section, the section underneath it.
[02:55:06] Speaker 5: Did he tell you at some point that pills had been found in the nightstand drawer?
[02:55:15] Speaker ?: Yes he did.
[02:55:16] Speaker 14: Yes he did.
[02:55:17] Speaker 5: And that was in the master bedroom?
[02:55:18] Speaker 14: Yes.
[02:55:19] Speaker 5: And did he tell you who he found those with?
[02:55:21] Speaker 14: Yes he did.
[02:55:22] Speaker 5: And who was that?
[02:55:23] Speaker 14: His attorney.
[02:55:24] Speaker 5: And did he tell you why he gave those pills?
[02:55:28] Speaker 6: Objection, I believe it was me and I'm not his attorney.
[02:55:31] Speaker 3: But that was, that's what, why don't you re-ask that, what it was that Patrick Clancy said.
[02:55:40] Speaker 5: What was it that Patrick Clancy said? Did he give you a name or just say my attorney?
[02:55:44] Speaker 14: He said Kevin Reddington.
[02:55:45] Speaker 5: And did he tell you why he gave the pills to attorney Reddington instead of giving them to you like he gave the other pills?
[02:55:53] Speaker 14: No he did not.
[02:55:58] Speaker 5: He never attempted to turn those pills into the state police, or those bottles into the state police, is that correct? Correct. At some point in time did you learn that the Clancy family had gone to the Museum of Science on January 8th, 2023? Yes. And was a video obtained? Yes. Did you watch that video? Yes. Did you observe the family including the defendant interacting with each other and the defendant specifically interacting with the children and exhibits at the Museum? Yes. Your Honor, at this point in time, exhibit 14, I'd asked to play just a small portion of that. It has not been played previously.
[02:56:40] Speaker 8: All right.
[02:56:47] Speaker 5: We could pause here for just a moment. Do you see the Clancy family in this video footage?
[02:56:55] Speaker 14: Yes.
[02:56:57] Speaker 5: And if you could just get up and point to them with the court submission. Sure.
[02:57:04] Speaker ?: Okay.
[02:57:05] Speaker 5: Let me press play. And at this point in time in the video, are we seeing Patrick Clancy take Dawson Clancy out of that room, leaving Lindsay Clancy with Callan and Cora?
[02:57:21] Speaker 14: Yes.
[02:57:30] Speaker 5: Is that Cora there in the red skirt? Yes. Now at this point in the video, at approximately 11:58 in 30 seconds, what is happening in the video footage now?
[02:57:45] Speaker 14: Cora is beginning to play with the exhibit. Patrick standing off by himself. Lindsay Clancy is with Callan and Dawson is watching.
[02:57:56] Speaker 5: Could you just point out where Patrick and Dawson are? For the record, you've pointed to Patrick towards the top of the screen and Dawson near the entrance to the exhibit.
[02:58:10] Speaker 14: Yes. Yes.
[02:58:13] Speaker 5: And throughout this video, in this portion of the video, can the defendant be seen instructing the children, pointing to them, showing them how to work the exhibit and operating some type of control panel? Yes.
[02:58:25] Speaker ?: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And at some point, does the switch and the defendant helps Dawson with the same exhibit? Yes. Yes. And that goes on for several minutes? Yes, I believe so. And showing, I think we've gone forward to approximately noon in the video timer.
[02:58:50] Speaker 5: And at some point, does the switch and the defendant helps Dawson with the same exhibit? Yes. And that goes on for several minutes?
[02:59:03] Speaker 14: Yes, I believe so.
[02:59:04] Speaker 5: And showing, I think we've gone forward to approximately noon in the video timer.
[02:59:20] Speaker ?: Thank you.
[02:59:50] Speaker 5: Thank you. Excuse me. Sir, during the grand jury process, did you attend a meeting with the medical examiner in this case? Yes. And did you participate in interviewing her, specifically Dr. Barbara Vidal Olson? Yes. And did you participate in interviewing her, specifically the portion of her proposed testimony, where she was explaining how someone dies from strangulation? Yes.
[03:00:42] Speaker 7: Yes.
[03:00:43] Speaker 5: And would it be fair to say that, at some point in time, she was asked-
[03:00:49] Speaker 3: she was asked you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you
[03:01:19] Speaker ?: you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you
[03:01:49] Speaker 5: sir in that meeting with the medical examiner did she tell you that constant pressure would need to be applied even after the person went unconscious in a strangulation in order to affect death yes did she tell you that it takes several minutes of continuous pressure to cause
[03:02:14] Speaker 6: that leading questions if this is going to be admitted can we not have leading questions ask her
[03:02:18] Speaker 5: witness like ask ask him what she said do you recall sorry do you recall what she said about um the time
[03:02:28] Speaker 14: it takes to strangle someone to death uh after unconsciousness I think she said several minutes um it would take several more minutes for someone to die and would that be several more minutes of
[03:02:39] Speaker 5: strangulation yes and no further questions thank you all right it's great so she asked you about
[03:02:47] Speaker 6: the uh the pills that were located in the master bedroom by Patrick when I was with him right yes and and you know that Patrick indicated that after you guys had cleared the scene finished with your investigation seized all the pill bottles that you were able to locate that I went in the house with him and I took a number of items photographs albums things on the wall and stuff like that right all I know is that the pill bottles I don't know what else you took oh just the pill bottles and at some point I imagine the VA must have shown you this recognize this as being the uh light stand drug
[03:03:26] Speaker 14: it looks it looks similar to the one that was in the video see it did you look at it I mean it looks similar to the one I've never seen that I don't know
[03:03:33] Speaker 6: okay uh so these would be the bottom ones that were in there right I I don't know I don't know that when these were seized the first thing that was done is I contacted the DA's office and said that I had them I I don't know what you said to them come by my office and pick up anything they had you're welcome to look at it seize it have it analyzed and send it to a crime lab I didn't care I don't know what you said
[03:03:55] Speaker 3: all right hey redirect no your honor all right thank you sir thank you thank you all right hey council could I see it
[03:04:25] Speaker ?: you you
[03:05:25] Speaker 11: the jury um I told you we might break a little bit early today and finally again uh I was right uh and so we're gonna uh recess on this matter for you at this point so I'm gonna excuse you
[03:05:43] Speaker 3: Monday morning all right so you don't have to come in here tomorrow uh so I'm gonna suggest to take these next couple of days rest up I know it's been a long couple of weeks for you I appreciate all the work you've done I'm gonna really remind you of those instructions because now I've got a kind of a a longer stretch uh that you're gonna be at home you'll be talking to people um so I just want to remind you um do not talk about this case with anyone don't do any research about this case or similar cases if you have any questions don't do any research don't try and educate yourself on any of the issues or uh facts that you've heard so far in this case um don't make any uh little road trips uh to go by any places or try and fill in any gaps um the other thing I want to remind you you have to still keep an open mind all right it was probably easy easy to kind of nod and say yes when I said that at the very beginning of the case any of the case but now you've heard a lot of evidence but you haven't heard all the evidence all right um you haven't heard the closing arguments of the attorneys you haven't heard the law that you do apply um so it's I'm just reminding you you have to do that it's so important um and so I just kind of want to remind you on that I want to thank you so much for so far all the work that you've done and all the work that you're gonna do uh and so I hope you have a very nice weekend uh and uh we will see you on Monday um just in case you're wondering Monday um just in case you're wondering we're still well on track um and so uh but we'll see you on Monday we'll continue uh with the trial at that point uh and again have a have a nice weekend all right thank you
[03:07:41] Speaker 7: Court, all rise. Good. I'm going to close the office.
[03:07:46] Speaker ?: This way, please.
[03:08:11] Speaker 1: All right.
[03:08:19] Speaker 3: Please see Council again over at Sidebar. I'm going to address the Commonwealth's motion regarding trial court security logs. Thank you.
[03:09:04] Speaker 10: Council? Your Honor, the Commonwealth is asking the court to allow the Commonwealth in the defense to have copies of a log that we were advised that, or we've seen that the trial court security has for people who go back into the lockup area to visit with or attend to or what have you with the defendant during the course of this trial. Both myself and A.D.A. Sprague have witnessed at several points. Obviously, we know there are medical staff that go back with the defendant. But in addition to medical staff, which are not really the primary thrust of this motion, it's that there have been other individuals that are not Council that are permitted to go back there. And we're not alleging that that's inappropriate in any way, shape or form. Clearly, the staff here, the security staff, has followed all appropriate protocols. But we are aware that Dr. Zizel has been back there. We witnessed a priest being allowed back there the other day. Instead, we are advised that these visitors are kept as a log when they come, when they exit, what days, what times. And the Commonwealth is alleging that that's information that might be necessary for us to effectively cross-examine some of the defense witnesses that are going to be presented. Certainly with Dr. Zizel, it could pose as a potential bias that he's there, that he's being presented as an expert witness on the concept of criminal responsibility and there are certain ethical rules that forensic psychiatrists and psychologists follow that he might be subject to a cross-examination about and this and the nature of his relationship with the defendant could be an area of fraud for cross-examination. Because the court records are not—these court records, I would suggest, are not in the care, custody and control of the Commonwealth. Procedurally, we have filed the motion as a Rule 17 motion asking for access to the records just for this defendant during the course of the trial.
[03:10:57] Speaker 3: I mean, you're not looking for the name of the priest who went back there, are you?
[03:11:04] Speaker 6: Father Bob.
[03:11:06] Speaker 3: I mean, I understand, I'm just trying to figure out what the scope of this is. I understand the request for Dr. Zizel's amount of visits, because he's slated to possibly be a witness, so I understand how that might be relevant. Right. The priest, I'm struggling with.
[03:11:26] Speaker 10: At this point, Your Honor, we haven't been furnished with exactly who defense is going to be calling as witnesses in their case. We have an idea from a witness list that was filed. That keeps evolving as the trial progresses. So, we don't know, for instance, if that person for some reason has a relationship to the defendant and he wishes to call her for some—or call him for some reason. So, with the exception of, again, the nurses, we don't necessarily need their information. We know the purpose for why they're there and that they don't have a role in this case. But anyone else who has been permitted back there that is outside the medical staff, I would suggest the Commonwealth is entitled to at least know and whether we are able to use that information if it becomes more apparent when the defense has—was underway with their case, that would come to—that we'd have to wait and see if that's the case. But certainly, the fact that Council has announced Dr. Zayzel as a testifying witness, that's information we believe we're entitled to. All right.
[03:12:24] Speaker ?: Mr. Rannington.
[03:12:24] Speaker 6: So, first of all, here's the list. They want the list. We don't need a Rule 17 and a court order. They can just go over from there to there and get the list and see who's been going in and out to see Lindsay. I don't have a problem with that by no means whatsoever. Father Bob is a Roman Catholic priest who baptized these kids, who is very, very close to Lindsay. Not in a religious sense. They just like each other. She went to Mass sporadically. She's not a devout Catholic. She's a Catholic.
[03:13:11] Speaker 11: She has a relationship with the Father.
[03:13:14] Speaker 6: I haven't even talked to the guy since last week. The first time I ever met him, shook his hand, a nice, nice man. After that debacle yesterday that we went through with the public--
[03:13:37] Speaker 3: Let's stay focused on it. I am staying focused. Well-- This is what I'm doing. I guess I'll tell you right now so I can save you. I'm not ordering the name or address of anyone other than Dr. Zizel.
[03:13:52] Speaker 6: Can I call him as a witness right now? Tell you what his involvement is with calling him back?
[03:13:58] Speaker 3: No. No. I'm going to allow that so the Commonwealth can take a look at that record. Nobody else though. And then at some point as we-- if that-- if the doctor is called, we may need-- if we have to address that, we can address it. So I'm going to allow the Commonwealth to have the information regarding Dr. Zizel. And that's it though. Anyone else who went back there has been done-- has been admitted pursuant to the appropriate rules of the Security Department throughout the-- in this case, especially I'm not ordering the name, address, or frequency of this Roman Catholic priest. I'm just not going to do it, based on the record that I have now. If for some reason he's called as a witness, which I haven't seen that. I haven't seen an expectation even regards that. If that comes up, then the Commonwealth can renew this and I may reevaluate. But right now, the Commonwealth's motion regarding security logs is allowed as to Dr. Paul Zizel only. All right? Anything else we need to address before Monday? Commonwealth? No, Your Honor. All right, Mr. Annington. Thank you. So we'll see everybody on Monday. Thank you. All right.
[03:15:27] Speaker 1: All right. All right.