Josie Dikeman Destroyed On Cross Examination — WI v. Josie Dikeman

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: I'm going to start with where counsel left off. You found out about the cause of death for Alex the day that you were charged, correct? Yes. You had the criminal complaint that told all the injuries that Alex had? Yes. You also had the toxicology results, correct? I believe so. Who's the first person that you called from the jail after you were arrested? My children. The first person that you called was Derek Pedron, isn't that right? Yes, my children were with him. And the first person that you called after finding out all this information was Derek Pedron, and you told him you loved him, didn't you? I did. You told him you loved him multiple times on that call, isn't that right? Yes. At the end of that call, you actually asked him, why aren't you saying you loved me back, right? I don't recall. You wanted him to say that he loved you too, right? I don't remember the exact words. You told him on that call, you got what you wanted. I'm charged, right? Yes, because. It's a yes or no answer. They can clarify with you, okay? Yes. Now, when you said you got what you wanted, never once on this jail phone call, did you say, Derek, you're the one that did this? Action, comment on silence, represented. It's on a jail phone call, it's before. Overruled. No, I did not. Never once did you say, Derek, you got me into this trouble, right? No. Never once did you say, Derek, you caused abuse to Alex on the evening of February 10th, right? No. Never once did you say, Derek, you're the one that brought Xanax into this house. You never said that either, did you? No. This is after you had all the information and you are sitting in jail knowing that you've been charged with these offenses. You call Derek Pedron, first person you reach out to. My kids were on the phone. And you asked Derek if he's going to allow you to talk to the children after he knew that you had been charged, right? My kids were on the phone, yes. Kids were on the phone because Derek said he would allow you to talk to the children. Isn't that [00:01:33] Speaker 2: right? He didn't clarify if I could continue to talk to my children. He allowed you on those phone [00:01:38] Speaker 1: calls to talk to your children, correct? You talked to your children. Yes. That was the last time. And you couldn't talk to your children anymore because of other court proceedings, right? It wasn't [00:01:49] Speaker 2: Derek preventing the contact. He said I manipulated them on that phone call because I asked if they [00:01:53] Speaker 1: were safe. Yes. Now you prepared for your testimony with your attorneys. Is that right? I, I seen my attorneys. Yes. They prepared you for testifying in court, correct? I practice. Yes. You practice. Attorney Zachary always has a very nice binder with all those questions in an order and what she's going to ask them. Isn't that right? Yes. And you knew the order because he went over those questions with you before you came into this courtroom. Isn't that right? I did not know the order. He used that binder when he asked you the questions when you were practicing, right? Yes. And how many times did you practice with attorney Zachary? Was it one time? Was it more than one time? Many times? It was every week. It was every week? Yes. Every week since 2023, since you've been charged, you've been practicing with attorney Zachary for the moment that we saw [00:02:34] Speaker 2: yesterday and today. Not, I wouldn't say every week since, since when? Since he's been on the case. No. You practiced quite a few times with him. Yeah. Multiple, multiple times. Yeah. I was, I was scared. I was nervous. Over 10 times. With my brain injury, I needed to. Over 20 times? I don't know the exact number. It's quite a few, isn't it? There's, yeah, there's multiple times. And so [00:02:58] Speaker 1: you knew the general order of the questions that were going to be asked of you. Isn't that right? [00:03:02] Speaker 2: It's the truth. Yeah. [00:03:05] Speaker 1: This past weekend was Mother's Day, isn't that right? Yes. It's the day where we celebrate the women in our lives that put children first, correct? [00:03:12] Speaker 3: Mothers who have children. Yeah. It's the same. I'm not sure that there's anything to do with it. [00:03:16] Speaker 1: In 2011, you failed Haley, isn't that right? [00:03:20] Speaker 2: I did. [00:03:21] Speaker 1: In 2013, you failed Haley, isn't that right? [00:03:23] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:03:24] Speaker 1: And in 2011, when you failed Haley, you said she fell down the stairs leading to a traumatic brain injury. Isn't that right? [00:03:29] Speaker 2: She did. [00:03:30] Speaker 1: And there was no safety gate in the house, correct? [00:03:34] Speaker 2: It was broken. [00:03:34] Speaker 1: It was broken. You didn't get another one, correct? [00:03:40] Speaker 2: I believe I did. [00:03:42] Speaker 1: You believe you did? [00:03:43] Speaker 2: Yes, I did. I did. [00:03:45] Speaker 1: You did. Then it wasn't being used by you? [00:03:48] Speaker 2: Yes, it was. [00:03:49] Speaker 1: It was being used? [00:03:50] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:03:51] Speaker 1: So she fell through a safety gate, according to you? [00:03:53] Speaker 2: I'm saying after that. [00:03:54] Speaker 1: After that, you got a safety gate. Okay. And that's a failure on your part, as well as Mr. Barnes. Isn't that right? [00:03:58] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:03:59] Speaker 1: The fall occurred when only you and Haley were home? [00:04:02] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:04:04] Speaker 1: And other than Haley, who was not able to talk at the time, you're the only person that can say what happened to Haley. Isn't that right? [00:04:11] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:04:13] Speaker 1: In 2013, you failed Haley again, didn't you? [00:04:17] Speaker 2: I neglected her, yes. [00:04:18] Speaker 1: She went from the 80th percentile weight to the less than 6th percentile while in your care? [00:04:22] Speaker 2: In our care. [00:04:24] Speaker 1: You're in Mr. Barnes' care? Yes. You're both responsible? [00:04:26] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:04:26] Speaker 1: You both failed her? [00:04:27] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:04:28] Speaker 1: She was losing hair? [00:04:30] Speaker 2: She was. [00:04:31] Speaker 1: She was injured with a broken bone in her foot? [00:04:36] Speaker 2: It was undated when that happened. [00:04:38] Speaker 1: I didn't say that. I said she had a broken bone in her foot. You agree with that? [00:04:42] Speaker 2: A healed broken bone. [00:04:44] Speaker 1: Her leg was swelling to the point that your own mother took her in, right? [00:04:47] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:04:48] Speaker 1: Because she couldn't walk. [00:04:50] Speaker 2: I don't know if she couldn't walk. [00:04:52] Speaker 1: You were a caretaker for her at the time. [00:04:53] Speaker 2: Yes, that was several years ago. [00:05:00] Speaker 1: You talked about, on direct examination yesterday, the fact that Mr. Barnes was not working and you were working during that time frame, correct? Do you remember that testimony? [00:05:07] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:05:08] Speaker 1: You were working less than five hours a week. [00:05:10] Speaker 2: I picked up shifts when I could. It varied. [00:05:12] Speaker 1: The evidence is that you were working less than five hours a week. [00:05:14] Speaker 2: It depended on the week. [00:05:16] Speaker 1: But for the most part, you were working less than five hours a week. Judge, I'm going to object. That's an answer. It's not answering the question. [00:05:21] Speaker 4: The answer is that it varies. It's this thing. [00:05:28] Speaker 1: You spent most of the day yesterday, roughly about five to six hours, talking about Derek, correct? [00:05:34] Speaker 2: I don't recall how long. [00:05:35] Speaker 1: A lot of your testimony has dealt with Derek and Derek's violence. Isn't that right? [00:05:38] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:05:39] Speaker 1: Perhaps not even the last hour of your testimony talked about Alex in the last moments of Alex's life. Isn't that right? [00:05:45] Speaker 2: I did. [00:05:46] Speaker 1: I'm going to object to mischaracterizing. I think we brought that up all before the last hour. The jury knows. They have their notes. [00:05:52] Speaker 3: They know. Move on. That's been asked and answered. Go ahead. [00:05:55] Speaker 1: You would agree with me that the vast majority of your testimony has been talking about Mr. Pedron. [00:05:59] Speaker 3: You asked us already. Move on. [00:06:05] Speaker 1: I want to talk to you a little bit. Yesterday, we talked a little bit about the dirty underwear in the bathtub, correct? [00:06:16] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:06:17] Speaker 1: And you said that if you see the dirty underwear, you throw it away immediately. [00:06:21] Speaker 2: I do. [00:06:21] Speaker 1: You throw it away immediately. You're not going to deal with it again, right? [00:06:24] Speaker 2: No. [00:06:24] Speaker 1: Okay. And you attributed the dirty underwear to Mr. Pedron. Isn't that right? [00:06:28] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:06:29] Speaker 1: He, he, you also said that there was a bottle related to urine in the same bathtub. Isn't that right? [00:06:34] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:06:35] Speaker 1: Okay. And you also attributed that to Mr. Pedron. Isn't that right? [00:06:37] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:06:38] Speaker 1: We saw on body cam when law enforcement arrived, you were wearing black pants and a red sweatshirt. Isn't that right? [00:06:43] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:06:47] Speaker 1: Can I have the, um, what, please? [00:06:49] Speaker 4: Did I, are these already a minute or which is? [00:06:50] Speaker 1: Yes, they're already a minute. [00:06:51] Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. [00:06:55] Speaker 1: This is certificate number 96. This is the bathtub. Correct? [00:06:58] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:06:59] Speaker 1: This is the dirty underwear? [00:07:00] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:07:00] Speaker 1: And this is the bottle you were talking about? Yes. That's what you're talking about, right? Yes. Okay. And you attribute those things to Mr. Pedron. [00:07:07] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:07:07] Speaker 1: Okay. And you're sure about that because you sit there today? [00:07:09] Speaker 2: Yes. Okay. [00:07:13] Speaker 1: This is a bit, excuse me, this is the five seconds of the 254. What are you wearing in this? [00:07:16] Speaker 2: A robe. [00:07:17] Speaker 1: A robe, correct? Yes. A back robe, correct? [00:07:19] Speaker 2: It's, I used it night, every day, every night. [00:07:22] Speaker 1: When you were texting with Raphael at approximately 9 p.m., you said, I just took a shower. [00:07:27] Speaker 2: I believe I said I was going to take a shower. [00:07:30] Speaker 1: Are you sure about that? [00:07:31] Speaker 2: I'm not sure. I thought that's true. [00:07:32] Speaker 1: If your text message said, I just took a shower, then you would be mistaken. Isn't that right? [00:07:36] Speaker 2: Can you show me? [00:07:37] Speaker 1: Yes, I can. Now, let me just ask you this question. You would not take a shower in a tub with dirty underwear in it, right? [00:07:44] Speaker 2: Absolutely not. [00:07:45] Speaker 1: You would not take a shower with a bottle that had urine of your child in it either, correct? No. If there's a time differentiation of about a half an hour when you stop texting with Raphael, and then after that, you return and you say, I just took a shower, that'd be consistent with you taking a shower. Isn't that right? [00:08:00] Speaker 2: I don't believe I did take a shower because there was dirty underwear in there, and I didn't want to clean the tub. I didn't feel good. [00:08:08] Speaker 1: Why would you tell Raphael you took a shower if you didn't take a shower? [00:08:11] Speaker 2: I was flirting with him. I was... [00:08:13] Speaker 1: You have a bathrobe. I'm consistent with taking a shower. [00:08:16] Speaker 2: I never used my bathrobe after I took a shower. I used towels. I used my bathrobe to stay warm. I didn't feel good. I still use a bathrobe in the house, walking around. [00:08:34] Speaker 1: 26. States of it, 146. I'm showing you page 12. Can you read this message from you to Raphael? [00:08:46] Speaker 2: Yes. It says, I just took a shower. [00:08:48] Speaker 1: I just took a shower, meaning you just took a shower. [00:08:50] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:08:51] Speaker 1: That's what you messaged him. It is. You would not take a shower in a bathtub with dirty underwear or that bottle, correct? [00:08:57] Speaker 2: Right. Meaning I did not take a shower. [00:08:59] Speaker 1: You just told him you just took a shower. [00:09:00] Speaker 2: Right. [00:09:01] Speaker 1: So your words. [00:09:01] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:09:02] Speaker 1: So are you lying to him about it? [00:09:04] Speaker 2: I was. [00:09:05] Speaker 1: Are you making it up now because it doesn't fit what you told this jury yesterday? Infection and argumentative. [00:09:09] Speaker 3: Sustain. [00:09:10] Speaker 1: You told this jury yesterday that the dirty underwear were from Mr. Pedron, the bottle is from Mr. Pedron, correct? [00:09:15] Speaker 2: Right. It was. [00:09:16] Speaker 1: And you told this jury yesterday that you would not stand for underwear, dirty underwear, or that bottle being in the shower. You would get rid of it immediately. [00:09:22] Speaker 2: If I was changing a child, I would get rid of it. I didn't feel good that day and I did not want to deal with the dirty underwear and cleaning that shower. [00:09:31] Speaker 1: The shower isn't just one message with Raphael. You guys talk about a shower quite a bit, isn't it? [00:09:35] Speaker ?: I don't remember. [00:09:36] Speaker 1: Because Raphael says to you when you're talking about the shower, he says, I want to shower with you. [00:09:40] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:09:40] Speaker 1: And then you continue on having a conversation with Raphael about how many dates it will take before you have sex with Raphael or shower with him. Isn't that right? Yes. And you say it's going to be at least four dates. Infection relevant. [00:09:51] Speaker 3: I'm not sure. The shower thing is relevant. The sexual activity is not. Sexual. [00:09:58] Speaker 1: It's context, judge. These are her statements. [00:10:01] Speaker 3: Okay. I'm going to overrule the objection, but move on. [00:10:04] Speaker 1: Is there more? Yes. [00:10:06] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:10:07] Speaker 2: I did not take a shower that day. [00:10:10] Speaker 1: You're telling us today you did not take a shower even though your words that day say you did. [00:10:13] Speaker 2: Right. [00:10:14] Speaker 1: Because that one fit with what you told the jury already. [00:10:16] Speaker 4: Back to an argumentative. [00:10:18] Speaker 1: Sustain. [00:10:19] Speaker 2: I didn't tell them I took a shower. [00:10:20] Speaker 1: No, your message is dead. [00:10:21] Speaker 2: Right. [00:10:25] Speaker 1: You're the one that changed Al Xavier that evening, correct? [00:10:34] Speaker 2: No. [00:10:34] Speaker 1: I put him in his pajamas. [00:10:35] Speaker 2: I didn't change him. I put pajamas on him because Derek did not. [00:10:38] Speaker 1: You put pajamas on him? [00:10:40] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:10:40] Speaker 1: Those were fresh pajamas and clean pajamas, correct? [00:10:42] Speaker 2: They were what I found in a pile. [00:10:44] Speaker 1: They were what you found in a pile? Yes. You inspected those pajamas? [00:10:47] Speaker 2: I did not. I did not feel good. I grabbed pajamas and put them on him. [00:10:51] Speaker 1: You're aware that in the bedroom where Al Xavier and you went to sleep on the evening of February 10th, 2023, there is an empty container of cotton candy. [00:11:01] Speaker 4: Is this characterizing his bedroom? [00:11:03] Speaker 1: She says it's her bedroom. [00:11:04] Speaker 4: How is this characterizing it? It's in the kitchen in the photographs. It's not. [00:11:08] Speaker 2: There may have been another. [00:11:14] Speaker 4: 147, that's right. Yeah, I mean, we haven't had testimony on it, but yeah. [00:11:19] Speaker 1: Okay, that's been marked as 147. This is your bedroom, right? [00:11:23] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:11:24] Speaker 1: Do you see an empty container of cotton candy right next to your white? [00:11:28] Speaker 2: I do. I don't know what color it was. There was pink. There was blue. I don't know what color that one was. [00:11:32] Speaker 1: You don't know what it was, pink or blue? [00:11:33] Speaker 2: Right. [00:11:33] Speaker 1: The label would indicate that's both, right? [00:11:35] Speaker 2: No, it doesn't. [00:11:38] Speaker 1: Are you familiar with that brand? [00:11:38] Speaker 2: At the bottom, it looks pink. [00:11:40] Speaker 1: It looks pink. [00:11:41] Speaker 2: Looks like there's still some in there. It looks pink at the bottom. [00:11:44] Speaker 1: There's cotton candy remnants all over the floor of that bedroom. Isn't that right? [00:11:52] Speaker 2: We don't know what that was. [00:11:53] Speaker 1: You don't know what it was? [00:11:54] Speaker 2: No, we don't know what that blue substance was. [00:11:56] Speaker 1: It's all over in different spots in the carpeting. Isn't that right? [00:11:58] Speaker 2: We don't know if that's cotton candy. [00:12:00] Speaker 1: There's a blue substance all over the floor in the carpeting in the floor of your bedroom, correct? [00:12:03] Speaker 2: We also played with Play-Doh and we had magic sand. [00:12:07] Speaker 1: I understand you're saying it's not cotton candy. There's a blue substance all over your floor in your bedroom, correct? [00:12:12] Speaker 2: There was, but we don't know what it was. [00:12:14] Speaker 1: You don't know what it was. [00:12:16] Speaker 2: Neither do you. [00:12:19] Speaker 1: There's also a blue substance on his pants, correct? [00:12:24] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:12:24] Speaker 1: Consistent with him getting into whatever blue substance is on the floor and in your bedroom. Isn't that right? That's an argument. No speculation. Overruled. [00:12:32] Speaker 2: That blue substance could have came from something they ate another day. [00:12:36] Speaker 1: It came from another day. It also could have come from when he was only with you, right? [00:12:40] Speaker 2: We don't know. [00:12:40] Speaker 1: We don't know. We wouldn't know if you kept a better eye on him, wouldn't we? Action, argumentative. Sustain. It's your job to watch him 24 hours while he has this broken leg, correct? Protection, speculation, argumentative. She said it. Overruled. [00:12:54] Speaker 2: We were sleeping. [00:12:55] Speaker 1: You're supposed to keep 24-hour supervision on Alex Xavier with his broken leg. [00:12:58] Speaker 2: He was in my bed and we went to sleep. [00:13:01] Speaker 1: My question is, were you supposed to keep 24-hour supervision on him? [00:13:04] Speaker 2: I was and he was in my bed. [00:13:09] Speaker 1: He got to your bed because you moved him from the couch that he was on to the bed. Is that right? [00:13:13] Speaker 2: Yes, I wanted him closer. [00:13:15] Speaker 1: And the path that you would take to move him from the couch in your bed to the side of the bed that you put him asleep on, was to right past any objects that would be on the floor? [00:13:26] Speaker 2: There was a lot of objects on the floor, yeah. [00:13:27] Speaker 1: There was an open path, though, where you could walk and put him on the bed. [00:13:31] Speaker 2: I don't know about open. There was a lot of stuff on the floor. [00:13:34] Speaker 1: There was a lot of stuff on the floor. I'm going to ask the detective, excuse me, Sergeant, Executive Sergeant, I'm going to help. [00:14:01] Speaker 4: I'm going to ask you, Sergeant, I'm going to ask you a little bit about the floor, but I don't know for the record that it appears that the state is applied forensic protocol and that Sergeant Amundsen has placed a sheet of evidence paper on the floor and appears to be reopened with fresh gloves. I would note that the bag that was reopened to chaps bag appeared to strike the side of the wooden paneling of the court's raised bench area. [00:14:51] Speaker 1: The records reflect that states that at 110 is now on the floor in front of the defendant. It's in between the court reporter's station and the jury box. Do you see the bag on the floor? [00:15:01] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:15:01] Speaker 1: That's the bag that was on the floor on the morning of February 11, 2023, correct? [00:15:07] Speaker 2: I don't remember exactly where it was. [00:15:10] Speaker 1: You don't remember where it was? [00:15:12] Speaker 2: Not exactly where it was, no. [00:15:13] Speaker 1: You didn't move it between the time that you called 911 and law enforcement arrived on scene, correct? [00:15:18] Speaker 2: No. [00:15:18] Speaker 1: All right. So wherever law enforcement found it, that's where it was, correct? [00:15:22] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:15:22] Speaker 1: And you were aware that it was photographed and captured on the floor next to the bed, correct? [00:15:27] Speaker 2: Yes. I mean, wherever they photographed it or wherever they found it. [00:15:31] Speaker 1: I want you to look at the size of the bag that's in front of you. [00:15:34] Speaker ?: See it? [00:15:35] Speaker 1: That bag, you're saying that was out the evening of February 10, 2023, when you took Alexander from the couch, would have had to move past this bag and put him on the bed. You're telling us you would never have noticed this bag on the floor? [00:15:48] Speaker 2: I didn't. [00:15:48] Speaker 1: You didn't? No. You didn't because it wasn't there, right? [00:15:51] Speaker 2: It was wherever they found it. I mean, there was, I had plenty of, if I had seen it in my walkway, then I would have seen it. It was not in my walkway. [00:16:01] Speaker 4: I'm sorry to answer the question, then ask a question. Judge, for the record, the bag is placed horizontally, facing towards Ms. Dyckman, not vertically. The width of the bag is at its widest. That's fine. [00:16:16] Speaker 2: Do you have a picture of where it was placed? Then I can better tell you. [00:16:19] Speaker 1: It was admitted in evidence. I don't have it from you right now. [00:16:22] Speaker 2: Well, that doesn't help me then. [00:16:23] Speaker 1: This bag is noticeable on the floor right now as we sit here, right? [00:16:26] Speaker 2: I need to see where it was. [00:16:28] Speaker 1: My question is, is this noticeable right now on the floor as we see it right now? Yes or no? [00:16:32] Speaker 2: Yes or no? I need to know if I'm in the room. [00:16:43] Speaker 1: I just captured on body cam, so I will cover that a little bit later. [00:16:47] Speaker 4: I'll agree with that. There was a photograph of the bag where it was found, if that helps move this along. [00:16:51] Speaker 1: Yeah, can you tell me which photograph it is? [00:16:53] Speaker 4: I don't know. [00:16:53] Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about the timeline of that evening into the next day, okay? Derek makes a phone call to you at 519 p.m. before he arrives home, isn't that right? [00:17:14] Speaker 2: Before he arrives home from work? [00:17:16] Speaker 1: Yes. 519 p.m. Derek calls you. [00:17:19] Speaker 2: Okay. [00:17:20] Speaker 1: You guys talk for approximately five minutes. [00:17:22] Speaker 2: Okay. [00:17:23] Speaker 1: You agree that Derek got home around 530 in the evening. Is that fair? [00:17:27] Speaker 2: I believe so. I believe so. [00:17:28] Speaker 1: Okay. Tell us exactly what Derek did when he first walked in the door. [00:17:31] Speaker 2: He went by Alex. [00:17:32] Speaker 1: He went in by Alex? Yes. And did he? [00:17:35] Speaker 2: I was not in there, but I know he went in right in my room. [00:17:38] Speaker 1: He went right into your room right by Alex? Yes. Then what happened? [00:17:41] Speaker 2: Then he had, I went upstairs by Jalen and I heard noises for sure. So I waited and I was talking to Jalen and then I heard him again and I came back downstairs. [00:18:01] Speaker 1: Well, if you heard noises, it's safe to presume that Jalen would have heard those same noises. She was right next to you. [00:18:06] Speaker 2: I'm not Jalen. I don't know. [00:18:07] Speaker 1: She was near you though, correct? [00:18:08] Speaker 2: She was. [00:18:09] Speaker 1: And describe the noise that you say that you heard and you're not sure if Jalen heard or not. [00:18:12] Speaker 2: I heard screaming. [00:18:14] Speaker 1: Screaming? [00:18:15] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:18:16] Speaker 1: It was screaming so loud you could hear it upstairs? [00:18:18] Speaker 2: Yes. Jalen had her music on YouTube and I still heard it. [00:18:22] Speaker 1: So Jalen would have heard these screams too? [00:18:24] Speaker 2: I can't say what Jalen heard. [00:18:26] Speaker 1: It was so loud you could hear it over Jalen's music? [00:18:28] Speaker 2: I heard it. [00:18:29] Speaker 1: Major was downstairs, correct? [00:18:31] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:18:31] Speaker 1: Major was in his bedroom, correct? [00:18:33] Speaker 2: He was. [00:18:33] Speaker 1: Major was in his bedroom right next to the bathroom, correct? [00:18:36] Speaker 2: He was. [00:18:36] Speaker 1: And the screams that you say you heard upstairs in the second floor were loud enough to hear throughout the house? [00:18:42] Speaker 2: I heard it upstairs. [00:18:43] Speaker 1: Okay. And so if you could hear it, presumably Major certainly could have heard it. [00:18:47] Speaker 2: All the domestic violence that happened in that house, Major was always in his room and he never came out. He would avoid it. [00:18:54] Speaker 1: That wasn't my question. My question was Major would have heard it if you could have heard it upstairs. I'm not Major. [00:19:00] Speaker 3: Sustained. She doesn't know. [00:19:02] Speaker 4: Can we get the forensic evidence off the floor? [00:19:04] Speaker 3: Yep. You can be picked up, please. Unless you're going to use it for some other reason. [00:19:08] Speaker ?: No. Yeah. [00:19:21] Speaker 3: Did you want to take just like a five-minute break so it can be otherwise? I'm just like, we need to clean that up, maybe find some other things. Yeah, let's take about a five, ten-minute break here. Let's say ten after. Okay. [00:19:29] Speaker 4: Let's say five after judge or ten after? Ten after. Are we still on the record? Hold on a second. Hold on a second. [00:20:03] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:20:03] Speaker 4: All right. Yeah, go ahead. I observed Sergeant Amundsen placing a new pair of gloves on his hands. He's now placing the CHAPS bag back into the previous evidence bag. My concern with this is that the bag was in the line of speaking of both Mr. Torbenson and Ms. Dykeman and potentially the jurors where if there's going to be airborne contamination, it was right in that zone where that could happen. Okay, I'm not too worried about that. It's important to note this for the record, judging cases, everything needs to be tested. [00:20:30] Speaker 1: I would just, then I think it's important to note my distance away from it, which is well over six feet. Studies show that it's externally rare, if not possible, for DNA to travel over six feet. [00:20:38] Speaker 3: Okay. We'll see you at ten after. [00:20:41] Speaker 1: Thank you. [00:20:53] Speaker 4: Thank you. [00:21:23] Speaker 5: I take it. Her head started hurting. Ooh, my neck, my back. I ain't even going to see any rest of it. Y'all know what I'm talking about. Her head hurting. She got to get off the stand. Okay, here we go. Y'all know we fast forwarding through this. [00:21:43] Speaker 4: Medication that she's had a pre- That before the jury came in, before or after the last break, Mr. Torbenson was still speaking about alleged drug transactions that the court found to be inadmissible, and I saw the door open, and I saw the first error coming through as that discussion was happening. Just putting that on the record. [00:22:03] Speaker 3: Okay. Maybe we should talk about that issue since it's been brought up. Not the conversation, but you wanted to bring further information to the record. Go ahead. [00:22:14] Speaker 1: The argument that I have relative to that is it's drug-seeking behavior on that part of Ms. Dyckman. She's seeking a specific medication that she's had a previous addiction to, and she's admitting to the police that she's seeking it from Mr. Colkind. The text message exchange that the defense admitted regarding Mr. Pedron, there's no demonstration that that's a completed drug transaction. In fact, it's just the opposite, because the person says, that's a long 10 minutes, and that's the long message. So there's no indication that that's a completed transaction, yet that was allowed in evidence. This is exactly the same as that type of conduct here. It's drug-seeking behavior on the part of the defendant, which I think is arguably even more relevant, because in those text message exchanges, it's someone else seeking drugs from Mr. Pedron, not Mr. Pedron seeking drugs from somebody else. Here, it's her seeking a substance she was previously addicted to, wanting to pay for it, and she has testified on the stand that she does not seek or use outside of a prescription. [00:22:58] Speaker 4: Judge, that wasn't her testimony. She admitted to that repeatedly on direct examination. We've introduced evidence of that. The court already, I thought the court had already ruled on the Ned Colkind issue, because I would have addressed that in my direct. I thought the court made a ruling this morning, indicating that it wouldn't be a proper fodder for cross-examination. The difference between Ms. Dykeman and Mr. Pedron is that Ms. Dykeman has constitutional rights here. Mr. Pedron is not entitled to the same right to bear trial, to the same inferences as any suspect. This is redundant. It's not in response to any question that Ms. Dykeman asked. Saying that she had drug-seeking behavior tells us nothing at all about whether or not she killed Alex in 2023. If she sought out oxycodone or whatever in 2019, it's irrelevant. It's prejudicial. It was previously barred just this morning by the court's order. I'm asking the court to exclude it. [00:23:48] Speaker 3: I'm going to keep my order as I made that order based on what I had. Let's just keep moving. I don't think that's a make-or-break huge issue here, but it is, I know, it's yet another potential impeachment concept for the possible impeachment, not concept, but possible impeachment by the state. It's ambiguous with Mr. Kolkheim. I don't want to make much of a comment on this, but there is a question about constitutional rights. It is correct, and the statement has an absolute constitutional right, well-established constitutional right to a fair trial. We're up in the air on the issue of how Mercy's line involves the victims of cases. But there is definitely a tension between those two things. I'm just going to leave it at that. There's not a lot of clarity about where those lines are drawn. Let's just move on. [00:24:45] Speaker 1: I wasn't going to address that point, Judge. I was going to address something. Another issue? Defense had a very long direct examination with the defendant over yesterday into today, and all I'm going to note for the record is the court has very quickly been shutting me down on questions. And the defense went over, the defense went over and over and over topics again and again and again to the point that it was utterly repetitive. I've only been questioning her for not even an hour, and the quickness with which you are sustaining objections relative to what they went through and the timing I have relative to them, I just want noted for the record. [00:25:15] Speaker 4: All right. Judge, sorry to keep bringing up new evidence. [00:25:18] Speaker 3: I am not treating the state any differently than I'm treating the defense. I find that just a little bit. There are asked and answered questions that are asked repetitively. I'm trying to sustain those because it seems like everybody's asking variations of the exact same question. And I am not. I listen to the question. I listen to the objection. I respond. I don't take a tally of when they've done this for one side or the other. In fact, I am not being any quicker other than trying to keep the trial going. So having said that, what's the other issue you want to bring up? [00:25:48] Speaker 4: Judge, I've just handed what's been marked as State's Exhibit 149. It appears to be yet another summary of phone activity. The summary has not been authenticated through another witness. It has not been disclosed to us before now. We've had no opportunity to check this for accuracy. If the state intends to use this as an exhibit, I would object. It is not authenticated. [00:26:05] Speaker 3: This is a phone summary of what? [00:26:06] Speaker 1: It's from directly authenticated records, and it contains no content other than the timing in which things happen. And it's a conglomeration of all the records from text messages, phone calls, which are all from very different records, but they're all certified records. [00:26:19] Speaker 4: They could have introduced that through the actual custodian who's introducing that. This hasn't been authenticated. I haven't been able to check any of this. You're going to use it right now? [00:26:28] Speaker 1: I want to use it. There's a time frame where there's no activity, and I want to talk to her about that with regards to this. [00:26:33] Speaker 3: All right. We're not going to get through the cross anyway at this point in time. Chances are we'll have to go into the afternoon. It's going to give the defense an opportunity to look at that. If there are some issues with it, we'll bring that to the jury. If there's problems with how it's written down, like it's wrongly done, we can bring that to the jury's attention. But right now, let's move forward. I understand. I'm allowing either side to use summaries on this discovered evidence that's out there. So if there's discovered evidence, you do a summary to make it move forward. I'm allowing that to happen. State's just done a few more of it in this trial. That's all. [00:27:02] Speaker 4: Just for the record, my objection here is authentication and confrontation. [00:27:07] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:27:11] Speaker 3: All right. As far as authentication goes, if there is a problem with the sequence, that will be brought to – yeah, this is a problem. She's not the custodian of the records, the more I think about this. [00:27:28] Speaker 1: They've agreed to authentication. That's happened. Thank you. [00:27:31] Speaker 3: Thank you for that. That helped. They've agreed to authentication. [00:27:33] Speaker 4: We agreed to the authentication of the cellbar downloads. We did not agree to the authentication of the summaries that we're getting at, you know, in the middle class examination. [00:27:41] Speaker 3: The base data has been agreed upon, but is – and the fact that there's a summary, if it's badly summarized, the defense can go into that or have the ability to take it apart. If it's something that you look at the authenticated documents, and the authenticated documents do not support the summary, we will bring that to the jury's attention. Okay. So having said that, let's bring the jury in. Okay. [00:28:04] Speaker ?: All right. Thank you. [00:28:13] Speaker 3: All right. Everybody may be seated. Go ahead. [00:28:39] Speaker 1: This segment, I'm going to show you what's been marked as state exhibit 149, which is a summary that I prepared from your records, okay? I want to show you a text message that you sent to Mr. Rafael Suarez at 747 in the evening on February 10th, 2023. Do you see that entry right here? [00:28:58] Speaker 2: Yes, I do. [00:28:59] Speaker 1: Okay. The next message or the next entry on this chart is from Mr. Rafael Suarez sending you a text message back. Is that correct? Yes. And that is at what time? 8:05. 8:05 PM on February 10th, 2023. Is that correct? Yes. The next time that you respond in any fashion to Mr. Suarez is what time? [00:29:14] Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. 8:29. [00:29:17] Speaker 1: 8:29 PM. Is that correct? Yes. So from 7:47 PM to 8:29 PM, you are not messaging Mr. Suarez, correct? Correct. You're not making a phone call to anybody, correct? [00:29:28] Speaker ?: Correct. [00:29:29] Speaker 1: It doesn't show any activity on part of your phone during that timeframe, isn't that correct? Correct. And all that would be a timeframe before you sent a message saying, "I just took a shower," isn't that right? [00:29:41] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:29:42] Speaker 1: You had a number of phone calls that day. We talked about the first phone call that you made, or that Derek made actually to you, which is before he came home on February 10th, correct? [00:29:52] Speaker ?: Correct. [00:29:53] Speaker 1: At 6:49 PM, did you have a call? 9:00 PM, did you have a call with your mother? [00:30:00] Speaker 2: I don't know the exact time, but I probably did talk to my mom. [00:30:04] Speaker 1: Your mom was coming to pick up the two older children that evening, is that correct? [00:30:07] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:30:08] Speaker 1: Your mom did, in fact, come and pick up Major and Jaylen that evening, right? [00:30:11] Speaker 2: She did. [00:30:12] Speaker 1: And that was after the two of you talked about that, correct? [00:30:14] Speaker 2: Yeah, we would have talked about it. [00:30:16] Speaker 1: Your mother, Ms. Ehlers, came into your house to pick up the children? [00:30:19] Speaker 2: She did not come in the house. I don't believe she did. [00:30:22] Speaker 1: You don't believe she did? [00:30:23] Speaker 2: I don't believe she came in the house. Okay. [00:30:25] Speaker 1: If she made a statement otherwise, you wouldn't know that, correct? I'll withdraw it. You don't recall her coming in the house? No. You don't recall her seeing what the children were doing or anything like that or having a conversation with her? No, I don't. [00:30:36] Speaker 2: The kids always went outside when she got there. [00:30:40] Speaker 1: You had a phone call with your mom at 9:38 PM? [00:30:45] Speaker ?: I may have. [00:30:46] Speaker 2: It lasted above. [00:30:47] Speaker 1: I'll show you. Two minutes and 52 seconds? [00:30:53] Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks like it. Okay. [00:30:58] Speaker 1: Now, this is the same evening that you're saying that Derek just beat Al Xavier, correct? Yes. You're having a phone call with your mother that's approximately three minutes in length, right? Yes. You're concerned about child abuse that's happening in your home, right? [00:31:13] Speaker 2: It happened a lot. [00:31:18] Speaker 1: That wasn't my question. My question was you're concerned about child abuse that's happening in the home, correct? [00:31:22] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:31:23] Speaker 1: Okay. And you don't say anything to your mother in this three-minute phone conversation about any concerns relative to Al Xavier, do you? [00:31:28] Speaker 2: No. [00:31:29] Speaker 1: You don't say a single word? No. You don't report anything that's just happened? I'll move on. That's not the only phone call that you had that evening, is it? Did you have a FaceTime chat with Laura Lee? [00:31:49] Speaker 2: I'm not sure if it was FaceTime, but I talked to Laura Lee. [00:31:52] Speaker 1: You talked to her twice, right? [00:31:53] Speaker 2: It would have been by phone call, I believe. [00:31:56] Speaker 1: Let me show you your records. Your records indicate that you had a 13-minute Facebook call with Laura Lee. [00:32:04] Speaker 2: Yeah, a call. [00:32:05] Speaker 1: And that would be after 10:30 in the evening, correct? Yes. And then you had a second phone call at 10:44 with Laura Lee? Yes. And that lasted 16 minutes and 43 seconds? Yes. So you had two phone calls with Laura Lee that approximate 26 minutes in time total, correct? [00:32:19] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:32:20] Speaker 1: And during neither of these phone calls, do you mention anything about Al Xavier being in any way physically harmed by Mr. Pedram? [00:32:26] Speaker 2: No, I didn't. [00:32:27] Speaker 1: You didn't mention it at all? No. You didn't mention anything about how he appeared to you or concerns regarding Al Xavier. Isn't that right? No. The second phone call, that's when Al Xavier can be heard saying, "I'm waiting for you to go to sleep so I can get into things," right? [00:32:39] Speaker 2: That's not what he said. [00:32:40] Speaker 1: What did he say? [00:32:41] Speaker 2: He said yes. [00:32:43] Speaker 1: Today you're saying he said yes, but in previous interviews you said, "I'm waiting for you to go to sleep so I can get into things," right? [00:32:48] Speaker 2: I never said that. [00:32:49] Speaker 1: You never said that? No. You were interviewed by Investigator Williams on Bodycam and you told Investigator Williams that's what he said on Bodycam. [00:32:54] Speaker 2: I told him I asked him and he said yes. Yes. [00:32:57] Speaker 1: You told him you asked him and he said yes. Yes. Okay. And today you're saying he said yes, not yes, right? You're drawing out the yes as though there's something wrong with him as you say it today. [00:33:05] Speaker 2: I thought he was being silly. I thought he was being silly. [00:33:07] Speaker 1: Yes. So when you say yes like that, you're not trying to indicate today for the first time that there's something physically wrong. But you're not mischaracterizing if you gave that testimony yesterday. [00:33:15] Speaker 3: I'm going to allow you to ask the question. [00:33:18] Speaker 1: Go ahead. When you are using your voice in that manner to stress how Al Xavier sounded to you for the first time in trial, you're saying that that was silly to you. [00:33:27] Speaker 2: Well, my voice doesn't sound exactly like his did, but he did prolong his yes. [00:33:32] Speaker 1: Well, you took it to be silly, right? [00:33:34] Speaker 2: I thought he was being goofy. Nothing else wrong with him. He was playing with his hands in the air. [00:33:40] Speaker 1: As he laid next to you. [00:33:42] Speaker 2: As he laid a couple kids away from me. Yes. [00:33:45] Speaker 1: According to you. [00:33:46] Speaker 2: That's the truth. [00:33:48] Speaker 1: You watched the forensic interviews of Araya, correct? [00:33:53] Speaker 2: I did. [00:33:54] Speaker 1: You watched the forensic interview of Brantley, correct? [00:33:56] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:33:57] Speaker 1: Both of those children said that they did not sleep next to you on the evening of February 10th, 2023. Correct? [00:34:02] Speaker 2: Not in their initial interview. [00:34:04] Speaker 1: In their initial interviews, they did not say that they slept next to you. Correct? [00:34:08] Speaker 2: They didn't say anything about sleeping with me. [00:34:11] Speaker 1: They said they slept upstairs. [00:34:12] Speaker 4: I'm going to object to your saying if we can get a definition of which video we're talking about or which bit of testimony we're talking about. [00:34:20] Speaker 3: Can you identify which statements you're talking about? [00:34:23] Speaker 1: Sure. In Araya's forensic interview, she talks about sleeping upstairs and being awakened by Brantley. Isn't that right? [00:34:28] Speaker 2: I believe she was confused with me telling her to go upstairs. [00:34:31] Speaker 1: You believe she was confused when she made those statements? [00:34:33] Speaker 2: Yes. As it was for me, that was a very traumatic event for her. [00:34:36] Speaker 1: And when Brantley was interviewed, Brantley said that he was asleep upstairs. [00:34:40] Speaker 2: I don't believe he said that in his interview. He said that on the stand. [00:34:44] Speaker 1: He said that on the stand as well. [00:34:46] Speaker 2: I don't believe he said that in his interview. You can see in the picture I took, he was by me in bed. [00:34:51] Speaker 1: At 9:15, correct? [00:34:52] Speaker 2: He was by me the whole night. [00:34:54] Speaker 1: The photograph that you took is at 9:15 PM, correct? [00:34:57] Speaker 2: Right. And that makes sense that he stayed by me. Why would he go upstairs? [00:35:01] Speaker 1: To go to sleep would be one reason, right? [00:35:04] Speaker 2: He was going to sleep at 9 in my bed. [00:35:06] Speaker 1: You said to this jury that the children go to sleep in bed with you because of Mr. Pedram. Mr. Pedram wasn't home that evening. Isn't that right? [00:35:12] Speaker 2: And it doesn't change that they would go upstairs. You've seen how messy it was. [00:35:16] Speaker 1: You've exchanged well over 100 messages with Mr. Suarez. Correct. You described during your interview that at some point you tried to shut off the TV around 11:30 to midnight, correct? Correct. And you described that Al Xavier was not going to sleep and wanted to stay awake, right? [00:35:38] Speaker 2: He was still moving a lot, yes. [00:35:40] Speaker 1: And so as a result of that, you turned the TV on? I did. And you and Al Xavier continued to watch the TV? [00:35:47] Speaker 2: I'm not sure if he was watching, but I continued to have the TV on and watch it, yes. [00:35:52] Speaker 1: You were still texting during this timeframe, correct? [00:35:55] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:35:56] Speaker 1: In fact, your text messages were pretty consistent with Mr. Suarez throughout that evening. [00:36:04] Speaker 2: Yes, I was excited for the day. [00:36:06] Speaker 1: Your text messaging Mr. Suarez as early as 6:15 p.m. or 6:18 p.m., correct? [00:36:15] Speaker ?: I... Yes. [00:36:17] Speaker 1: What was the time of your first message with Mr. Suarez? [00:36:27] Speaker ?: 6:18. [00:36:28] Speaker 2: 6:18 p.m. [00:36:31] Speaker 1: Is that to... Is it you sending a message to him or is he sending a message to you? [00:36:36] Speaker 2: I sent a message to him. [00:36:37] Speaker 1: Sent it to him. And you would agree with me that between 6:18 p.m. and midnight, you exchanged a number of messages with Mr. Suarez? [00:36:46] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:36:47] Speaker 1: Close to, if not over 100. Would you agree with that? [00:36:51] Speaker 2: Probably. [00:36:52] Speaker 1: You'd agree that with... In not one of those messages, did you express any concern with regards to Al Xavier or his physical condition? [00:37:01] Speaker 2: No, I was... My mind was on my date and Derek had told me he did not hurt Alex in there. And I didn't think it was that severe that Alex had internal injuries. If I did, I would have gotten him help. [00:37:17] Speaker 1: You send... Mr. Suarez a photograph of law enforcement outside of your residence, correct? From your camera system? [00:37:28] Speaker ?: I'm not... [00:37:29] Speaker 2: I may have. [00:37:30] Speaker 1: And after sending him that message, you said there were up to five members of law enforcement that were at your house to get Mr. Pedron. Isn't that right? I'm not 100% sure. You also told Mr. Suarez that Mr. Pedron was violating the no contact order, didn't you? [00:37:52] Speaker 2: I believe so. [00:37:53] Speaker 1: Okay. So you told him about the no contact order, but you didn't raise any concerns relative to Alex Xavier, correct? [00:37:58] Speaker 2: Like I said, I didn't think Derek hurt him severely. [00:38:02] Speaker 1: That wasn't my question. My question was... [00:38:04] Speaker 2: No, I didn't. [00:38:05] Speaker 1: You did, right? You could tell him about the no contact order, you could tell him that police were present, but you didn't tell him anything regarding Alex Xavier being hurt, did you? [00:38:12] Speaker 2: No. [00:38:13] Speaker 1: And you have told us a number of times that you care about Alex Xavier, right? [00:38:16] Speaker 2: I loved him with all my heart like he was my own, yes. [00:38:19] Speaker 1: I think you said at one point during direct examination, if you could replace yourself with Alex Xavier and have him here and you not here, you would want to do that, right? [00:38:26] Speaker 2: I would in a heartbeat, yes. [00:38:28] Speaker 1: That's how much you love this child. Yes. That's how much you want to protect this child and keep this child safe. [00:38:32] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:38:33] Speaker 1: And you had this information regarding him allegedly being assaulted in the bathroom, and you don't tell Mr. Suarez, do you? Go ahead, answer the question if you can. [00:38:45] Speaker 2: I don't know him like that. [00:38:47] Speaker 1: You had this information that he allegedly assaulted him in the bathroom, and you didn't tell Deputy Paff when he came to the residence. [00:38:54] Speaker 2: I didn't feel like I could. [00:38:55] Speaker 1: You had this information, and you didn't tell Deputy Kernan when he was at the residence. [00:38:58] Speaker 2: I didn't feel like I could. [00:39:00] Speaker 1: You had Deputy Paff's personal cell phone number on your phone. [00:39:02] Speaker 2: I didn't feel like I could. My life was threatened. [00:39:06] Speaker 1: Mr. Pedron was arrested and removed from your house, correct? [00:39:09] Speaker 2: That didn't stop him. [00:39:10] Speaker 1: That wasn't my question. He was arrested and removed from the house, right? [00:39:13] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:39:14] Speaker 1: He was in law enforcement custody, correct? Yes. You know at that moment in time, Mr. Pedron can't do anything to you, correct? Yes, he could. [00:39:22] Speaker 2: While he's in custody? [00:39:23] Speaker 1: Yes. You don't call Deputy Paff? You don't report anything to Deputy Paff? [00:39:32] Speaker 2: No, I didn't feel safe. [00:39:34] Speaker 1: You didn't report anything to Deputy Kernan? I didn't feel safe. [00:39:37] Speaker 2: I didn't feel safe. [00:39:38] Speaker 1: You didn't report anything to then Sergeant, now Lieutenant Williams, correct? [00:39:42] Speaker 2: I didn't feel safe. [00:39:43] Speaker 1: You had Lieutenant Williams' number in your phone. [00:39:45] Speaker 2: I didn't feel safe. [00:39:46] Speaker 1: You had the ability to call Lieutenant Williams. [00:39:49] Speaker 2: I didn't feel like I could. [00:39:51] Speaker 1: You had the ability to call him. You had the phone number. You had a phone. You had the fingers. You had the fingers. [00:39:56] Speaker 2: I had their numbers, yes. [00:39:58] Speaker 1: You chose not to. [00:39:59] Speaker 2: I didn't feel like I could. [00:40:02] Speaker 1: When you observed Al Xavier after Mr. Pedron left, you told Sergeant Williams that he was actually getting better after he woke up somewhere between 7:30 and 8:00. He wasn't puking. [00:40:17] Speaker 2: He was what? He was not throwing up anymore. [00:40:20] Speaker 1: He was not throwing up anymore. You said he appeared better to you. Not just not throwing up. You said he appeared better, right? [00:40:25] Speaker 2: When I moved him from the couch to the bed, he was not throwing up anymore. And I asked him, "Are you feeling better?" And he shook his head, "Yes." [00:40:47] Speaker 1: You told us earlier that you picked up McDonald's for the children. Do you recall? Yes. I believe you told us that Al Xavier didn't really eat anything, but he drank his soda. Is that right? Yes. And the soda that you gave him because he was sick was a Sprite. [00:40:59] Speaker 2: Isn't that right? [00:41:00] Speaker 1: Yes, I believe so. And a Sprite doesn't have caffeine in it. [00:41:02] Speaker 2: You're aware of that, right? It could have been something else. It could have been a different kind of soda. I don't remember all the details. [00:41:08] Speaker 1: Yesterday you told us it was a Sprite, though. I thought it was, yes. Okay. And today you're saying after hearing that he had caffeine in his system, it could have been something different. [00:41:15] Speaker 2: I know I gave him ginger ale that night, and I'm pretty sure it was a Sprite. Sometimes the kids took a drink. I always had Coke in my cup, and the kids were always known for taking a drink of my soda. [00:41:33] Speaker ?: So he maybe took a sip of your soda. You're saying that too? [00:41:34] Speaker 1: Yeah. So he maybe took a sip of your soda. You're saying that too? [00:41:37] Speaker ?: Okay. So he maybe took a sip of your soda. You're saying that too? [00:41:43] Speaker 1: Alexander was in bed with you from after the two children are picked up by your mother until you decide that you and he are going to go to sleep. Isn't that right? [00:41:53] Speaker 2: Can you repeat that, please? Sure. [00:41:55] Speaker ?: What time did you go to bed with Alexander? [00:41:56] Speaker 1: And when I say go to bed, I mean physically lay down. I don't mean go to sleep. We all went to bed when Derek got arrested. When Derek got arrested? Yes. That'd be after he left the house? [00:42:02] Speaker 2: The kids were laying down. So you went to bed before you were sending a message about I just took a shower? [00:42:04] Speaker ?: I was laying down at that time. [00:42:04] Speaker 2: I'm just asking you, did you go to, are you telling us today you went to bed before sending [00:42:05] Speaker ?: a message saying I just took a shower? Yes, I was laying down. Okay. [00:42:08] Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. [00:42:10] Speaker 1: When you put pajamas on Al Xavier, you saw his body? [00:42:11] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:42:12] Speaker 1: I was laying down. Okay. [00:42:14] Speaker ?: When Derek got arrested? [00:42:15] Speaker 2: Yes. That'd be after he left the house? [00:42:17] Speaker 1: The kids were laying down. So you went to bed before you were sending a message about I just took a shower? [00:42:20] Speaker 2: I was laying down at that time. [00:42:23] Speaker 1: I'm just asking you, did you go to, are you telling us today you went to bed before sending a message saying I just took a shower? [00:42:27] Speaker 2: Yes, I was laying down. [00:42:29] Speaker 1: When you put pajamas on Al Xavier, you saw his body? [00:42:39] Speaker 2: It was dark in the room. [00:42:41] Speaker 1: What room did you put pajamas on Al Xavier in? [00:42:43] Speaker 2: My room. Your room? [00:42:45] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:42:46] Speaker 1: You agree that Al Xavier was not complaining about in any way, shape, or form during that time that you put pajamas on, correct? [00:42:54] Speaker 2: He was not. [00:42:56] Speaker 1: He was not complaining of pain before that either, was he? His stomach hurt. From throwing up and being sick? [00:43:02] Speaker 2: He didn't specify. [00:43:04] Speaker 1: You could see Al Xavier's face during this time frame, right? [00:43:13] Speaker 2: It was dark in the room. [00:43:15] Speaker 1: TV lights up the room a little bit, right? [00:43:17] Speaker 2: A little. [00:43:18] Speaker 1: You could see enough to recognize the children in bed with you? [00:43:21] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:43:22] Speaker 1: You could see enough to recognize their faces? [00:43:24] Speaker 2: I could, I knew which child was which. [00:43:27] Speaker 1: You could see enough to know whether or not there were any visible injuries on the face, [00:43:31] Speaker ?: right? [00:43:32] Speaker 2: I mean, yeah. [00:43:33] Speaker 1: And you didn't see any visible injuries on his face other than that old scab, right? [00:43:36] Speaker 2: Right. [00:43:42] Speaker 1: No bruising around his eye? [00:43:43] Speaker 2: No bruises can take time, though. I understand that. [00:43:47] Speaker 1: I'm just asking you what you saw. You didn't see any bruising around his eye, right? No. Bruising on his head? No. [00:43:53] Speaker 2: Bruising on his arms? I didn't, I didn't, I didn't really examine. [00:43:57] Speaker 1: He said you didn't complain of any pain, though, during this time frame, right? [00:44:02] Speaker 2: No. [00:44:03] Speaker 1: He's acting normal to you? [00:44:05] Speaker 2: I mean, he didn't feel good. He seemed like he didn't feel good, but he wasn't throwing up anymore. [00:44:11] Speaker 4: He wasn't lethargic, right? He was thirsty. Can we get the state to define what lethargic means to him? [00:44:18] Speaker 1: I don't know. [00:44:19] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:44:20] Speaker 3: That was the answer earlier. Go ahead. Or a quick question earlier. Go ahead. [00:44:24] Speaker 1: You know what the word lethargic means, right? [00:44:26] Speaker ?: Thirsty. [00:44:32] Speaker 1: He didn't appear tired to you, right? [00:44:34] Speaker 2: Yes, he did. He did? [00:44:36] Speaker 1: Yes. He's staying up and watching TV with you until three o'clock in the morning, but he appears tired? [00:44:40] Speaker 2: I mean, he was like out of it more thinking back. [00:44:45] Speaker 1: Thinking back as you sit charged today. [00:44:48] Speaker 2: As time went on, thinking back wasn't himself. [00:44:52] Speaker 1: You never reported that to anybody who interviewed you, did you? [00:44:55] Speaker 2: I only did one interview. Correct. [00:44:58] Speaker 1: You only did one interview. Yes. [00:45:00] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:45:01] Speaker 1: With law enforcement, you talked to a lot of other people. You talked to Laura Lee, right? Not much. [00:45:06] Speaker 2: Talked to your mother. [00:45:07] Speaker 1: Not much. You didn't report any of these circumstances that you're telling us about today to any of the other people in your life, did you? [00:45:15] Speaker 2: I didn't talk to many people. I pretended to be okay so that my children would be okay. Because that's what their counselor told me to do. [00:45:22] Speaker 1: That's when your children are around, right? Pretend to be okay when your children are around you. [00:45:28] Speaker 2: Right. And I cried at night while watching them sleep because I was scared one of them would die. [00:45:33] Speaker 1: That recommendation doesn't apply to when you have a conversation with another adult though, [00:45:36] Speaker 2: right? I didn't talk to adults. I didn't talk to anyone. [00:45:39] Speaker 1: You told us yesterday in direct examination that you would tell Laura Lee almost everything that happened when Derek would have told you. [00:45:45] Speaker 2: Not after Alex passed. [00:45:46] Speaker 1: You would tell Laura Lee everything that happened before Alex passed though, right? Yes. You would send her countless videos? [00:45:51] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:45:54] Speaker 1: You're aware that your Google return only shows one video being sent to Laura Lee from you, correct? [00:46:00] Speaker 2: I had other emails. You have other emails? [00:46:02] Speaker 1: I did, yeah. [00:46:05] Speaker 2: I used other phones. [00:46:06] Speaker 1: You're aware that Laura Lee says you only sent one video to her? [00:46:08] Speaker 2: I sent her more than that. I had another phone with another email. [00:46:12] Speaker 1: I want to talk to you a little bit about the SD card that you said you had. Do you recall that yesterday? Yes. You said you had an SD card that was a treasure tove of evidence regarding Mr. Pedron abusing Alex Xavier, correct? [00:46:24] Speaker 2: I did. I had a SD card and another phone. [00:46:27] Speaker 1: SD card and another phone. [00:46:28] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:46:29] Speaker 1: And you said that there was a theft at your mother's house, correct? [00:46:32] Speaker 2: Yes, there was. [00:46:34] Speaker 1: No, that was your testimony yesterday. Yes. There was a theft at your mother's house, correct? [00:46:39] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:46:40] Speaker 1: And you told us yesterday that there was a backpack that contained this SD card that was stolen during that May 17th theft at your grandmother's house or your mother's house. [00:46:48] Speaker 2: There was the phone, the SD card and my key thob. Yes. [00:46:54] Speaker 1: You never reported that theft or any theft taking place at your mother's house. Isn't that right? [00:46:59] Speaker 2: I did. [00:47:00] Speaker 1: The only theft that you reported was the break-in of your suburban that was at the house on OS. [00:47:04] Speaker 2: Isn't that right? I did and I didn't realize how he got into my vehicle until I noticed my key thob and the phone was missing. [00:47:13] Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about the report that you actually made to law enforcement because yesterday you said this happened at the mother's house. The report that you made regarding a theft was to your old suburban at the house on OS, correct? Yes. And the only things that you reported to law enforcement in that theft report was that the car radio was stolen. Isn't that right? [00:47:28] Speaker 2: The TV deck was stolen out of my vehicle at my house. But at my mom's house, my key thob was stolen to get into my suburban and my phone and the SD card was taken out of my backpack. [00:47:42] Speaker 1: You never reported anything to law enforcement about an SD card from your backpack. [00:47:45] Speaker 2: Isn't that right? I didn't know those were taken until I noticed my key thob and the phone was missing. And that was after. [00:47:50] Speaker 1: You called the law enforcement to follow up and say there's additional items that were taken. [00:47:53] Speaker 2: I got arrested. [00:47:55] Speaker 1: At some point you were released, correct? [00:47:58] Speaker 2: I was. [00:47:59] Speaker 1: You could have made a phone call then, correct? [00:48:01] Speaker 2: I didn't have any of my stuff. It had all been taken. [00:48:04] Speaker 1: You had the ability to make a phone call even while you were in jail. Isn't that right? [00:48:07] Speaker 2: I think that wasn't on my mind anymore after fighting for my life. [00:48:12] Speaker 1: You sent text messages to Mr. Pedron after this took place. Isn't that right? [00:48:17] Speaker 2: I might have. [00:48:19] Speaker 1: You sent text messages to Mr. Pedron telling him that you loved him. [00:48:22] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:48:23] Speaker 1: You sent text messages to Mr. Pedron telling him that you missed him. [00:48:25] Speaker 2: I did. [00:48:26] Speaker ?: I did. [00:48:27] Speaker 1: You sent text messages to Mr. Pedron saying that you wanted to be with him. [00:48:30] Speaker 2: I did. [00:48:31] Speaker 1: There were also times that you used these videos as a way to get Mr. Pedron to come over to your mother's house. Isn't that right? [00:48:38] Speaker 2: It wasn't as a way to get him to come to my mother's house. [00:48:43] Speaker 1: There was a time where you gave Mr. Pedron a countdown. You said he had an hour to come over to the house to start, right? Do you remember? Yes. And then you said he had either 40 or 30 minutes to come to the house? [00:48:58] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:48:59] Speaker 1: You wanted to have sex with Mr. Pedron this evening, isn't it? [00:49:01] Speaker 2: No. That wasn't. [00:49:03] Speaker 1: You were telling Mr. Pedron that if he didn't come over, you were going to send a video to the police. [00:49:07] Speaker 2: It wasn't worded like that. [00:49:08] Speaker 1: You said you were going to release the videos. [00:49:10] Speaker 2: Yes, but it wasn't due to the countdown. It wasn't either you come over in an hour or I'm releasing the videos. Those are two different occasions. [00:49:17] Speaker 1: You're sending the text messages to Mr. Pedron and you're also saying I'm going to release the videos during the same time frame. Isn't that right? [00:49:23] Speaker 2: It could have been, but it wasn't worded in that way. [00:49:28] Speaker 1: He never came over, did he? [00:49:33] Speaker 2: I don't know. [00:49:34] Speaker 1: Those messages indicate that you had the ability at that point in time if you wanted to send those videos to law enforcement. Isn't that right? [00:49:40] Speaker 2: I don't know. I was scared of him. [00:49:44] Speaker 1: You're scared of him. During this time frame, you also had an attorney that was representing you relative to the children. [00:49:49] Speaker 2: Isn't that right? Yes, but. [00:49:51] Speaker 1: And that was relative to custody of the children. Isn't that right? Yes. We should have placement. We should have visitation while this matter was being investigated further. Isn't that right? Yes. And you had videos. You're saying you had videos that demonstrated that Mr. Pedron was abusive towards the children, right? [00:50:05] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:50:06] Speaker 1: And I talked to him about that. And I was asking him about the ability at that point in time to take that SD card, that information and turn it over to your children so that he didn't have access to the children. Isn't that right? [00:50:13] Speaker 4: Actually, Judge, I think we're getting into attorney-client privilege with Mr. O'Neill. [00:50:15] Speaker 1: I'm not asking. I'm asking about the ability. I'm not asking what was discussed. [00:50:18] Speaker 4: That's right. I mean, the response there, if we wanted to corroborate or just confirm would be too away for attorney-client privilege. Right. Sustained. [00:50:25] Speaker 1: You never chose to share the videos with anyone in that fashion, did you? [00:50:30] Speaker 2: I talked about it with my attorney. [00:50:33] Speaker 1: There's a guardian ad item that also represents the children, correct? [00:50:36] Speaker ?: Did. [00:50:37] Speaker 2: During that action. [00:50:38] Speaker 1: There's a guardian ad item that represents the best interest of the children. [00:50:41] Speaker ?: Yes, there was. [00:50:42] Speaker 1: And they have the ability to look at that. You could share it with them, correct? [00:50:46] Speaker 2: I didn't. They were all pointing the finger at me at that time. [00:50:52] Speaker 1: Well, if they were pointing the finger at you, wouldn't you want to point that finger somewhere else like you're telling us in court? [00:50:57] Speaker 4: I'm going to object. I think we're getting into comment on silence now. She had an attorney. She was represented. She had represented the police that she only wanted to deal with investigators through counsel. [00:51:05] Speaker 1: I'm asking about any contact with law enforcement. [00:51:07] Speaker 3: The guardian ad item is not law enforcement though. So let's move on to law enforcement. Go ahead. [00:51:11] Speaker 1: Did you share it with the guardian ad item? [00:51:16] Speaker 2: No, I told the CPS. [00:51:20] Speaker 1: Did you share it with CPS? [00:51:22] Speaker 2: No, I tried talking to them about his abuse and they shut me down. [00:51:25] Speaker 1: So CPS just shut you down? Yes. I want to talk to you about the statements that you made to Deputy Kearneen on the evening of February 10th. You allowed him in the house to see Alex Xavier, correct? Yes. You allowed him to inspect Alex Xavier's body? [00:51:52] Speaker 2: I allowed him to do what he needed to do until Alex was scared. [00:51:57] Speaker 1: Then you asked him to leave, correct? [00:51:59] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:52:00] Speaker 1: And Alex's expression of fear to you was not about Mr. Pedron. It was about law enforcement being present. Isn't that right? [00:52:06] Speaker 2: I don't know if Alex understood that he was law enforcement. He had a bright light in his face and he said, "Mommy, I'm scared." [00:52:13] Speaker 1: He recognized that it wasn't his father, right? [00:52:15] Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know what Alex thought at that time. [00:52:20] Speaker 1: You told law enforcement that evening, February 10th, 2023, that Mr. Pedron was just violating the no contact order. Isn't that right? [00:52:28] Speaker 2: I told them that I was scared. [00:52:30] Speaker 1: I understand that you said that. You also told them that Mr. Pedron was just violating the no contact order, correct? [00:52:35] Speaker 2: I don't remember saying that to them. [00:52:38] Speaker 1: Do you remember watching the videos in court? [00:52:40] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:52:41] Speaker 2: Okay. [00:52:42] Speaker 1: If all you said to law enforcement is that he was violating the no contact order when you're really telling us that he assaulted Alex, then you lied to law enforcement. Isn't that right? [00:52:49] Speaker 4: No. [00:52:50] Speaker 1: Patient calls for a legal conclusion. [00:52:53] Speaker 3: She said no. Didn't lie to law enforcement. Go ahead. [00:52:56] Speaker 1: You didn't tell them what you're telling us happened to Alex, did you? [00:52:59] Speaker 2: I was scared. I didn't feel like I could. [00:53:04] Speaker 1: Who is it more important to protect in that situation right there? Are you or Alex? [00:53:08] Speaker 2: Alex and I tried to. [00:53:11] Speaker 1: And the way you could protect Alex is to tell the police exactly what you're saying happened. Isn't that? That would protect Alex. [00:53:16] Speaker 2: Isn't that right? No. [00:53:18] Speaker 1: You've been interviewed a number of times by the police relative to domestic violence by Mr. Pedron. Isn't that correct? [00:53:31] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:53:32] Speaker 1: You've been asked the details about those assaults every time. Isn't that right? [00:53:36] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:53:37] Speaker 1: Outside of the 1911 call where you make a reference to Alex, not once did you tell investigators in those investigations that Alex was abused. [00:53:45] Speaker ?: No. [00:53:46] Speaker 2: But when I did, they didn't do anything. And I got beat for it. And he threatened to kill me and the kids. [00:53:53] Speaker 1: Not once in any of those investigations. Did you remember, say anything about any of the children being abused, correct? No. These are situations where you are telling law enforcement about you being assaulted. So you feel comfortable enough to share what's happening to you. But you won't say anything about the children during any of these investigations. Isn't that right? [00:54:10] Speaker 2: I did. But I didn't want him. I didn't know if he would kill us. [00:54:13] Speaker 1: You thought it was safe enough to say something about you, but you thought Mr. Pedron would kill you and the family if you brought up the children? [00:54:22] Speaker 2: I thought he'd kill me and the family every time I called, but when he would get to the point where he would escalate to the point where I thought he was going to kill us, I would call. And those times I called, I had the opportunity to call. I didn't always have that opportunity. [00:54:36] Speaker 1: And in those situations where you did call, you never once, outside the 1911 call we listened to, brought up abuse to the children. Isn't that right? [00:54:43] Speaker ?: No. [00:54:48] Speaker 1: And these are children that you're telling us today that you would put before yourself if you could to save them. I would. [00:54:53] Speaker 3: That's not answered. It's his name. [00:55:03] Speaker 1: The video that you had and you sent to Laura Lee. You didn't send that to law enforcement, did you? [00:55:09] Speaker 2: No. [00:55:10] Speaker 1: The van video. [00:55:11] Speaker 2: No. [00:55:16] Speaker 1: You sent it to Laura Lee with what instructions? To keep it. To keep it. To keep it until you decided that it should be shared? [00:55:29] Speaker 2: In case I needed it. [00:55:32] Speaker 1: Didn't you need it the moment it happened? If you're saying that was abuse to Alex by Mr. Pedron? [00:55:37] Speaker 2: Clearly I was weak and felt trapped. She could have helped me and sent it to law enforcement. [00:55:43] Speaker 1: That's her fault. [00:55:44] Speaker 2: No, I'm saying I needed help. [00:55:46] Speaker 1: Did you ask her to send it? [00:55:49] Speaker 2: No. [00:55:50] Speaker 1: Your instructions were for her to hold it and keep it, right? Yeah. Can she listen to your instructions as far as you know, right? [00:55:55] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:55:57] Speaker 1: Maybe this is a good place to break for lunch. [00:55:59] Speaker 3: Yeah, if you have another session. Okay, let's have a break. We'll be back at 1:15. Please don't talk about the case. We'll see you then. [00:56:05] Speaker ?: Yes. Okay. Okay. Can we just take a break? See you at one time. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, where's Matt? Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, where's Matt? Sorry. Yeah. 4:07. Yeah. 4:07. Yeah. [00:56:26] Speaker 3: Can we just take a break? See you at 110. Thanks. Thank you. [00:56:41] Speaker ?: Here's Matt. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. [00:58:43] Speaker 1: To show the consistent communication, those are all recorded in the phone as selfies, and those are the entries I did not include because I don't think that they're being sent to anybody or being done. Maybe they are being sent to somebody and I didn't include them. But those are the entries where there's no, in my mind, no communication taking place. What I included is communication with individuals, and that's what's captured in that exhibit. [00:59:01] Speaker 4: It also includes Internet search queries and other non-communication data. [00:59:07] Speaker 3: So was the point of the summary was to show inactivity at certain points? [00:59:14] Speaker 1: It is to show her activity, her phone activity in terms of phone calls, texting, using Facebook, or sending photographs to someone else. [00:59:22] Speaker 3: And if I understand what sort of the purpose of the exhibit is to sort of show there's gaps of opportunity, is that possibly? Am I wrong about that? I could be wrong. [00:59:35] Speaker 1: It's to show the consistent communication with Rafael Suarez, the text messages, the number, the nature, the phone calls that she had with individuals during the relevant timeframe, the text communication she had with those individuals, to show the gap right before she said she had a shower where there's no communication on her part for about a half hour to 45 minutes. That's the purpose of the exhibit. [00:59:51] Speaker 3: But are there selfies and Google searches and stuff like that going on during that gap? [00:59:56] Speaker 1: There are selfies being taken by her on the phone, but I didn't include the selfies unless they were sent to somebody. [01:00:01] Speaker 3: No, I'm talking about the gap. [01:00:02] Speaker 1: Yes, there's some small gaps where she's taking a series of selfies and then she picks which one she wants to send to Mr. Suarez. [01:00:08] Speaker 3: So there's this gap which the state is alleging she went and took a shower. So the question is, is there anything in that period? [01:00:15] Speaker 1: There's nothing in that gap, Your Honor. Those numbers are consistent. [01:00:19] Speaker ?: All right. [01:00:20] Speaker 3: So this is what I'm going to, we're still going to have a little bit more time. I'm not going to exclude it for that reason at all. As long as it's consistent with what's there. I do think it was used more about the question of communication. In other words, that there was a lack of communication of critical. Alex Xavier being harmed during that time seemed to be what the questions were about. So that summarizes the communications that were going on. Is that a fair statement, Mr. Torverson? Yes. Yeah. Okay. And that's what it's summarizing. It's not summarizing the actual, you know, she's looking up Google searches or anything of that sort at the time. [01:00:58] Speaker 4: Which time gap are we talking about here? Because there are a number of, uh, number skips. [01:01:03] Speaker 1: Um, the time gap that I asked for was entry 231, which is, um, I'm sorry. It's entry 233, which is text to Raphael Suarez. The very next entry is 234, which is text from Raphael Suarez. That's at 8:05. But her next response is until 8:25 or 2:35. So there's no gaps in any cell phone activity from 2:32 to 2:35. [01:01:29] Speaker 3: Uh, the times were 7:47 PM to 8:29 PM. Right. I believe those are the times. You may not have the same times because, or it should be the same times. [01:01:40] Speaker ?: Should be. [01:01:42] Speaker 1: And all those records came from exhibit 121, I believe. [01:01:48] Speaker 3: Yeah. [01:01:49] Speaker 4: Let's celebrate records that you have. Yeah. I mean, the same objection. I, we haven't had a chance to check any of this for accuracy. Um, but I understand the court's ruling. [01:01:58] Speaker 3: Okay. Anything else, um, Mr. Zachary? No, Your Honor. Okay. So we can bring the jury in, uh, state. All right. Why don't we get Ms. Dyke back up there? Oh yeah. I'm sorry, Ms. Dyke. Why don't you come up and have a seat. Go from there. All right. [01:02:11] Speaker ?: Let's bring the jury in. Thank you. [01:02:42] Speaker 3: Okay, everybody may have a seat and we'll continue. Go ahead, Mr. Jefferson. [01:02:52] Speaker 1: Good afternoon, Ms. Stegman. [01:02:54] Speaker ?: Hello. [01:02:54] Speaker 1: Ms. Stegman, there was some conversation about Wayne and a dog. You remember that? Yes. Your attorney? And you mentioned that Wayne had not been at your house for a long time and when he stayed at the house with the dog, it was because it was really cold. Is that correct? [01:03:06] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:03:06] Speaker 1: You're aware that there's messages between you and Derek just a week before the death of Alex Xavier where you're talking about Wayne staying at the house, correct? [01:03:15] Speaker 2: I don't remember when that was and I'm not 100% sure when Wayne stayed at the house. [01:03:20] Speaker 1: And Wayne was helping or staying at the house because he was helping you buy a new car, isn't that right? [01:03:24] Speaker 2: He did help me through the vehicle, yes. [01:03:26] Speaker 1: And the time that you needed a new car was right around the time of Alex Xavier's passing, isn't that right? [01:03:30] Speaker 2: It would have been around the time of Alex's leg break, yes. [01:03:35] Speaker 1: Is this message between you and your driver? [01:03:44] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:03:44] Speaker 1: It's referencing Wayne in a discussion about Wayne? [01:03:48] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:03:49] Speaker 1: And there's a message from February 6th of 2023 where you say, he's staying again because he's helping me buy a vehicle. Is that correct? It's about two-thirds of the way down. [01:04:07] Speaker 2: On February 6th, yes. [01:04:08] Speaker 1: You see that message? [01:04:09] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:04:10] Speaker 1: That confirms that Wayne and his dog were staying with you during this time, correct? [01:04:13] Speaker 2: I believe that was the last night, yes. [01:04:15] Speaker ?: Okay. [01:04:17] Speaker 1: I move 115 evidence. [01:04:19] Speaker 4: Judge again, it's an altered document. It will be received. [01:04:26] Speaker 1: You were shown an exhibit yesterday, 300, by Attorney Zachar, that referenced a message that you sent to Mr. Pedron that Alex needed to be home and healing with you and not getting drunk and high with Mr. Pedron. Remember that message? [01:04:43] Speaker 2: Yes. Okay. [01:04:44] Speaker 1: I'm going to show it to you right now. It's defense exhibit 300. This is the one that we're talking about, right? [01:04:49] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:04:50] Speaker 1: Now, that's just a very small snippet of that chat. Correct? It's only two sentences. [01:04:56] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:04:57] Speaker 1: Okay. What is the UTC time of those messages? You want me to read it? It might be harder for you to read it. I'll do it. Okay. And then you can tell me if I'm right or wrong. So, I'm going to read from right here. It says UTC 2203-54. Do you see that? Yes. And UTC means that we subtract six hours during this time frame. So, that would make it 16-03-54, correct? [01:05:21] Speaker 2: I'm not sure about that. [01:05:23] Speaker 1: And thank you. I was hoping someone would. And that would make it 4 o'clock in the evening. Okay. Exhibit number seven is Mr. Pedron's time. Now, this is happening on January 19th of 2023. Here's the entry on exhibit number seven for January 19th, 2023. Tell the jury what time he clocked out. [01:05:55] Speaker 2: It says 510. [01:05:57] Speaker 1: 510. So, you are messaging him about getting drunk and high. He's actually at work. [01:06:01] Speaker 2: He had people clock him out all the time. His friends would clock him out of work. [01:06:06] Speaker 1: That's your accusation. [01:06:07] Speaker 2: It's true. [01:06:10] Speaker 1: Those records say that he was at work, correct? Do you agree with that? [01:06:13] Speaker 2: It says he was clocked in work. It doesn't mean he was at work. [01:06:15] Speaker 1: Let's talk about what the additional messages say that also weren't shown. I'm going to show you, Stacey, exhibit 151. There were just two text messages that were contained in 300 from the defense. This is the larger portion of the conversation. Would you agree? Absolutely. [01:06:37] Speaker 3: I'm sorry, what's the exam number again? [01:06:39] Speaker 1: 151, Your Honor. Thank you. I want to direct you to the last two messages at the bottom of 151. Do you see it? You can compare it to these two messages. You can show that I'm showing you the exact same message chain. And what I've handed you is defense 300. [01:07:05] Speaker ?: Okay. [01:07:07] Speaker 1: Do you agree that the last two messages at defense exhibit 300 are at the very bottom of states exhibit 151? Yes. And yesterday, you were only shown the two messages from defense exhibit 300. You weren't shown the rest of those messages. Is that right? [01:07:42] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:07:42] Speaker 1: Now, if you go up a little bit on states 151, you can see a sentence where you say, you are already complaining about the Jenna part. Do you see that? [01:07:49] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:07:50] Speaker 1: You're referencing Jenna Love. Isn't that right? Yes. Jenna Love is Alex Xavier's mother. [01:07:54] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:07:54] Speaker 1: And Jenna Love was about to get out of prison during this time. Isn't that correct? [01:07:59] Speaker 2: No, for a couple months. [01:08:00] Speaker 1: Okay. You had some rules that you wanted Mr. Pedron to follow, or you weren't going to stay in a relationship with him? [01:08:06] Speaker 2: I wanted her to stay away from me. [01:08:07] Speaker 1: You wanted her to stay away from you. No contact with you, right? [01:08:10] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:08:10] Speaker 1: And you wanted no contact between Mr. Pedron and her as well. Isn't that right? [01:08:31] Speaker 2: Away from me and my children. [01:08:33] Speaker 1: Away from you and your children. You didn't want him having contact with her either, though. [01:08:35] Speaker 2: That was left up to Derek. [01:08:37] Speaker 1: Do you recall Derek sending at your request a text message to Aubrey, his daughter, saying any contact with Jenna would have to go through third parties? [01:08:44] Speaker 2: I don't know what Derek did. [01:08:45] Speaker 1: Okay. He sent that message or screenshot to you to prove to you that he wasn't going to have contact with Jenna because you didn't want that contact. Isn't that right? [01:08:51] Speaker 2: I don't see that. [01:08:52] Speaker 1: It's not in this part. It's just before this part. I'm asking you if you remember all this. [01:08:55] Speaker 2: No. [01:08:55] Speaker 1: Do you remember having three rules for Derek? [01:08:58] Speaker 2: Where's that? [01:08:59] Speaker 1: I'll show those to you in a little bit. Now, in this message chain, the very next line, after the two messages that you sent and we talked about in Defense Exhibit 300, you say, I gave you the option to make it right, and instead you want to call obsessive over Jenna and scream at me only about that situation. You see that on the second page? [01:09:18] Speaker 2: I didn't get to read the second page. You told me to stay on the first page. [01:09:21] Speaker 1: Okay. Second page is the very first entry. Let me know when you're done. Okay. [01:09:31] Speaker 2: Yes, I see it. [01:09:36] Speaker 1: See it? What's the very next line that you sent him in that very same message? Why don't you read it out loud? [01:09:39] Speaker 2: It says, it's just like you to only care about Alex and not Brantley and Araya. [01:09:43] Speaker 1: So, you're telling him he only cares about Alex and not the other two children? [01:09:46] Speaker 2: Brantley and Araya always felt left out, yes. [01:09:51] Speaker 1: Your very next message to him is one day they will have a man in their life who actually cares about them, right? [01:09:54] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:09:56] Speaker 1: So, you're sending this to a man that you're afraid of? [01:09:58] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:09:58] Speaker 1: And you're telling him that his children are going to have a different man in their life? [01:10:02] Speaker 2: Brantley would always ask me if I could give him a better dad. [01:10:06] Speaker 1: I'm going to ask that that be struck him from the record. That's your say. [01:10:09] Speaker 3: She was responding to your question, so I'm not going to strike you. Go ahead. [01:10:22] Speaker 1: Turn to the next page, page 3 or page 36 at the top of that exhibit. The fourth entry down, you say, that's why all you do is say that you and Alex are leaving. Do you see that? [01:10:51] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:10:51] Speaker 1: Followed by you saying you don't give a fuck about me or my kids. [01:10:54] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:10:55] Speaker 1: You believe that Derek gave preferential treatment to Alex? [01:10:58] Speaker 2: I believe that he left the other kids out when he would use Alex as a pawn. [01:11:03] Speaker 1: And yesterday when you were testifying about this text message exchange, you said you didn't want Alex leaving the house with him because you thought he was going to be drunk and high when he had Alex in his care. Is that right? [01:11:12] Speaker 2: He was. [01:11:13] Speaker 1: Okay. The very end of this exchange, you're having Derek sent to your mom's house to pick something up for you. Do you see that? Derek sends you a message. It says, I will call you when I'm by your mom. [01:11:37] Speaker 3: Actually, here's a confrontation. I think that's the effect on the listener, that's what she's going to respond to. Go ahead. [01:11:44] Speaker 2: That's what it says. [01:11:45] Speaker 1: That's what it says, right? Yes. And you actually sent the passcode to your mother's house for him, correct? So that he could get into the house? Actually, it's on a different exhibit from the next day. So I'll show that to you. [01:12:07] Speaker 2: It says, and I'm sick of you throwing Alex in my face. Really? Why should I care anymore? [01:12:14] Speaker 1: I'll show you what's been marked as 152. This is a continuing exchange between you and Mr. Pedron. Is that correct? [01:12:21] Speaker 2: What page? [01:12:22] Speaker 1: I'm going to show you the very last part of 152, which is a screenshot. What is the screenshot of? [01:12:32] Speaker 2: It's of my mom's messenger. [01:12:35] Speaker 1: And it's a message that you are forwarding to Derek with a passcode to get into your mom's house. Isn't that right? [01:12:39] Speaker 2: Yes, but it just says that Derek's stopping by. [01:12:44] Speaker 1: You're sending him to stop by. Isn't that right? [01:12:46] Speaker 2: Yeah, it could be for anything. [01:12:48] Speaker 1: Pick up things for you. [01:12:50] Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know what. [01:12:52] Speaker 1: You said earlier that Derek and your mom don't get along at all, correct? [01:12:55] Speaker 2: There was times where they did, but for the most part, no. [01:12:58] Speaker 1: Okay. So this person that you're saying is drunk and high during this time frame, you're sending out in a car to go pick things up. [01:13:04] Speaker 4: I'm going to object. I think that mischaracterizes this from the following day. [01:13:08] Speaker 3: I don't know what the... Is this one continuous day? It's unclear to me. One into the next. [01:13:13] Speaker 2: Into the next day? Conversation, yes. Right. The next day, I don't know that he was drunk or high. [01:13:18] Speaker 1: The 20th is the day of the party, right? [01:13:21] Speaker 2: Of Laura Lee's party? [01:13:23] Speaker 1: No, no. The party that you said he had people over at the house. [01:13:26] Speaker 2: Yes, but what time was that? [01:13:30] Speaker 1: This message is sent at 0027, 31, subtract to 6 would be... 6.27 p.m. 6.27 p.m. You're sending him over to the house. [01:13:44] Speaker 2: Right, and I don't know who was driving, and I don't know... [01:13:47] Speaker 1: That's the day of the party. Where he had people over at the house. [01:13:51] Speaker 2: I don't remember exact dates, but if it lines up with the messages, then yes. But I don't know when he started the party. [01:13:56] Speaker 1: Okay, I want to talk to you a little bit about Dr. Endres' evaluation of you. She said one of the things when she evaluated you and your personality is that you project blame on other people. Do you recall that? [01:14:06] Speaker 2: I do recall her saying that. [01:14:07] Speaker 1: And that you minimize your role or responsibility in things? Do you recall that? [01:14:11] Speaker 2: I don't recall that. [01:14:12] Speaker 1: Okay. When you were talking under direct examination yesterday, you said that you talked to the children about the basement stairs, the children being the children that live with you in the house on OS, correct? [01:14:23] Speaker 2: I don't remember saying I talked to them about the basement stairs. [01:14:26] Speaker 1: You said you don't recall that. Can you... That's right, just yesterday that you talked to the... [01:14:29] Speaker 2: Can you explain more about that conversation? [01:14:31] Speaker 1: Yes, you talked to the children about those stairs being unsafe and they shouldn't play around them. [01:14:34] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:14:34] Speaker 1: Okay. That's not enough as a part of a parent to secure those stairs and make them safe for a child. Is that right? [01:14:40] Speaker 2: They were old enough to walk. They were old enough to know yes and no and understand not to play by the stairs. [01:14:51] Speaker 1: So Araya should have understood as a four-year-old child not to play by those stairs. Oh, your mind. [01:14:56] Speaker 3: Relevance. You can ask if Araya was old enough to understand. [01:15:01] Speaker 2: As you can see in the interview, Araya was a very smart child and she was very well-spoken and she could communicate very well. Okay. [01:15:09] Speaker 1: So you think that was enough as you as a parent to take safety steps for the children in the home, which is to tell them, hey, those are dangerous, stay away? [01:15:15] Speaker 2: Yes, and that is why I told them to throw their clothes, not bring them down the basement stairs. [01:15:25] Speaker 1: Same thing with prescription medication. You had a conversation with the children and you said, these are mom's prescriptions, stay away, don't touch, that's for adults. [01:15:32] Speaker 2: Since my brain injuries, the kids noticed that I would always take pain medications or a lot of medications, I should say, not pain. And they would ask me, mom, what are those? Why do you always take medicine? And I would tell them, mom has to take them because of my head. You know, how mom always has headaches because they were used to quiet time. You know, mom's head hurts. We have to have quiet time. [01:15:57] Speaker 1: My question is that you believe just telling kids. [01:15:59] Speaker 2: Explaining why we had about the medication, why I explained to them. [01:16:03] Speaker 1: I'm asking beyond explaining it to them, should you have taken other safety steps? [01:16:06] Speaker 2: That's not what you asked. You asked if I had a conversation with them, and I'm explaining. [01:16:12] Speaker 1: Beyond having a conversation with them, should you have taken other safety steps with your medication? [01:16:15] Speaker 4: Infection, speculation, resident, relevance? No. Calls for a legal conclusion. [01:16:19] Speaker 1: It does not. [01:16:20] Speaker 4: Overruled. [01:16:21] Speaker 2: I had it in my door next to my bed where I took it morning and night, and I explained to them those of her mom's head. [01:16:27] Speaker 1: That medication you had, you could have gotten rid of all those medications, couldn't you? [01:16:30] Speaker 2: I planned on doing that, and then COVID hit, and we were on lockdown. [01:16:34] Speaker 1: You could store them up high where no child could ever get access to them. You could have done that, couldn't you? [01:16:37] Speaker 2: They were on a higher shelf. [01:16:39] Speaker 1: They were on a higher shelf? [01:16:40] Speaker 2: That's where I put them. [01:16:41] Speaker 1: So they were on a shelf where none of the children could have accessed them, is what you're telling us today? [01:16:46] Speaker 2: I believe they were either on that brown shelf or on my hanger shelf, which is where I put them. [01:16:52] Speaker 1: If they were on the hanger shelf, none of the children could have reached them. Is that right? [01:16:55] Speaker 2: No. [01:16:56] Speaker 1: That's not right? [01:16:57] Speaker 2: That is right. [01:16:57] Speaker 1: That is right. None of the children could have reached it, correct? [01:16:59] Speaker 2: No. [01:17:00] Speaker 1: So the only person that could have touched that bag was you or Mr. Pedron? [01:17:03] Speaker 2: Correct. [01:17:04] Speaker 1: The only two people that had the opportunity to touch that bag was you or Mr. Pedron, correct? [01:17:07] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:17:07] Speaker 1: Same thing if it was on the bookshelf. That was high enough that none of the children would access it, or no? [01:17:12] Speaker 2: I can't say what the kids could have reached. I'm not the children. [01:17:15] Speaker 1: You can observe how tall your children are and what they can grab, what their capabilities are, right? [01:17:21] Speaker 2: Yes, but that house was very cluttered, and I don't know what they could have reached. I mean, there was... [01:17:28] Speaker 1: Whose responsibility is it to put things that are dangerous to children out of the reach of children? [01:17:31] Speaker 2: I did. You did? I put it up. I believe it was on the hanger shelf. [01:17:35] Speaker 1: You believe it was out of reach for the children? [01:17:36] Speaker 2: I believe it was on the metal shelf. Where I hung up clothes. I believe it was on that shelf. That's where I remember putting it. [01:17:48] Speaker 1: I want to talk to you a little bit about your interactions with the police on February 11th, 2023. On February 11th of 2023, Sergeant Williams comes and talks to you, and you say that you want the no-contact order dropped. Isn't that right? [01:18:11] Speaker 2: Right after Alex died? [01:18:12] Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. You said that multiple times, that you wanted the no-contact order dropped, right? Yes. Alex just died in the house. Yes. And at that point, you're telling us that you are searching for what could have happened to Alex to cause his death, right? [01:18:25] Speaker 2: I thought it was an overdose. [01:18:26] Speaker 1: I understand that's what you're telling us, but you're still searching for what it could have been, right? [01:18:30] Speaker 2: In my head, I thought it was an overdose. [01:18:32] Speaker 1: You wanted to provide information to the police that may be relevant to anything that happened to Alex, correct? [01:18:35] Speaker 2: At that time, I thought it was an overdose. [01:18:37] Speaker 1: I understand that's the rehearsed answer. [01:18:38] Speaker 4: It's not rehearsed. It's a strike. Asked and answered. Struck. And it's also argumentative. [01:18:45] Speaker 1: When you're having this conversation, you also bring up marijuana in the house, don't you? [01:18:52] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:18:53] Speaker 1: And you bring up marijuana in the house because that's a concern relative to something that Derek had, isn't that right? [01:18:57] Speaker 2: Because he handed it to me before he went out to the cops. [01:18:59] Speaker 1: Correct. Because Derek used marijuana, right? [01:19:01] Speaker 2: He did. [01:19:02] Speaker 1: And that was what you would reference whenever you said Derek was getting high, was marijuana. [01:19:06] Speaker 2: No, he used Xanax more. [01:19:07] Speaker 1: You never told that to the police? [01:19:09] Speaker 2: He didn't hand me his Xanax. [01:19:10] Speaker 1: I didn't say you did. You never told the police about Xanax? [01:19:13] Speaker 2: No, because he didn't hand it to me. I didn't have it. I didn't know where it was. He handed me the marijuana, so I felt like I had to tell the police because I knew where it was. [01:19:22] Speaker 1: You knew the police were going to search your house. At that point, they had told you they were going to conduct a search warrant of your house. Yes. And actually, when they took your cell phone, they took it. You didn't voluntarily turn it over. They said, we're getting a warrant for your phone. Isn't that right? [01:19:31] Speaker 2: No, he said, I need to take your cell phone. And I handed it to him. And I gave him the password after I wrote down numbers. [01:19:36] Speaker 1: Because he told you he was getting a search warrant. [01:19:37] Speaker 2: I didn't care. I didn't fight him. [01:19:39] Speaker 1: That's not my question. My question was, he told you he was getting a search warrant, right? I don't recall. You don't recall. You told this jury that you saw Derek Pedron do a line of Xanax on the table. [01:19:56] Speaker 2: I did, yes. [01:19:57] Speaker 1: At that point in time, you had to have a belief, if that's true, that there may be Xanax in your house when they're going to conduct a search warrant. Isn't that right? [01:20:03] Speaker 2: I don't know what Derek did with his Xanax. [01:20:05] Speaker 1: Exactly. You don't know if it's in the house or not in the house, if you believe it's present. And you saw it previous evening, right? [01:20:10] Speaker 2: I don't know what he did with the Xanax. [01:20:12] Speaker 1: And the only thing that you mentioned is a concern when law enforcement told you they were searching the residence was marijuana. [01:20:16] Speaker 2: Because I had had it in my possession. [01:20:24] Speaker 1: We saw a number of videos through the course of this trial where Xanax and fentanyl were discussed by Derek to you, correct? [01:20:31] Speaker 2: And I to him. [01:20:32] Speaker 1: Correct. Those videos he never turned over to law enforcement. Isn't that right? [01:20:36] Speaker 4: Objection. Comment on silence. [01:20:38] Speaker 1: At any point? [01:20:40] Speaker 3: Comment on silence, Judge. He can't comment on silence, but did they turn over? That's the question. [01:20:47] Speaker 1: Did you ever turn over those videos to law enforcement at any point in time? [01:20:49] Speaker 2: I gave them to my attorney. [01:20:51] Speaker 1: Okay. Those videos contain accusations made by Derek about you using drugs, correct? [01:20:57] Speaker 2: They were accusations towards him using the Xanax because he was. [01:21:01] Speaker 1: That was your response to him, but Derek always accused you of using Xanax and he accused you of using fentanyl. Isn't that right? [01:21:06] Speaker 2: He accused me of a lot of things. [01:21:08] Speaker 1: On those videos, he accused you of using Xanax and he accused you of using fentanyl. Isn't that right? [01:21:12] Speaker 2: Yes. And other things. [01:21:13] Speaker 1: Those were the drugs that he brought up every time. Isn't that right? [01:21:15] Speaker 2: And other things. Yes. [01:21:16] Speaker 1: And you were wearing patches during this time frame. You've already told us about that, right? [01:21:20] Speaker 2: Occasionally, I wore nicotine patches. [01:21:21] Speaker 1: You're telling us they're nicotine patches, but these were what Derek would say to you. Xanax and fentanyl, correct? [01:21:26] Speaker 4: I'll move on. [01:21:31] Speaker 1: You knew that if you turned these videos over to law enforcement, they would have questions to you about your drug use, correct? [01:21:38] Speaker 2: No. They could have drug tested me and I was working with an attorney and I handed them over to my attorney. [01:21:42] Speaker 1: These videos were made in 2020 through 2022. You were not working with an attorney then, correct? [01:21:47] Speaker 2: I was being advised by an attorney, yes. [01:21:49] Speaker 1: In 2020 to 2022? [01:21:51] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:21:52] Speaker 1: You were providing these videos to an attorney? [01:21:54] Speaker 2: No, I was being advised by an attorney to remain silent and not work with law enforcement. [01:22:01] Speaker 1: Regarding what? [01:22:02] Speaker 2: Regarding Alex's death. [01:22:04] Speaker 1: From 2020 to 2022, you were advised to remain silent about the death of Alex? He didn't die until 2023. [01:22:11] Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I get mixed up with the tapes. [01:22:14] Speaker 1: Okay. So you weren't advised at that point, correct? You agree with me now? 2020, 2022, Alex is alive? [01:22:20] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:22:21] Speaker 1: Okay. And Derek is talking about your drug use in these videos. He's talking about you using Xanax, you using fentanyl, right? [01:22:25] Speaker 4: Here's a confrontation, asked and answered. [01:22:28] Speaker 1: I'm trying to get her focused, Judge, on cancer. [01:22:30] Speaker 3: So the question, what I'm allowed you to ask is, did she turn over those, you passed these, this couple of days? [01:22:35] Speaker 1: No, I didn't. You did not turn them over? [01:22:37] Speaker 2: No. [01:22:37] Speaker 1: And you knew that if you did, you would be examined for drug use issues, isn't that right? [01:22:42] Speaker 2: I don't know. [01:22:46] Speaker 1: You were asked about the school records for the children during your questioning yesterday. You agree that Alex Xavier had approximately 100 absences over a period of two years? [01:22:57] Speaker 2: As well as other children, yes. [01:22:59] Speaker 1: He had more than the other children, though, correct? [01:23:01] Speaker 2: I don't know. [01:23:02] Speaker 1: You agree that Derek bears responsibility for that. You agree with that, right? He's the father. He should be getting Alex Xavier to school. [01:23:09] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:23:09] Speaker ?: Okay. [01:23:10] Speaker 1: And you agree that you also have a responsibility for that, correct? Yes. You both have responsibility. [01:23:14] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:23:14] Speaker 1: And you both failed to get Alex Xavier to school on a regular basis? [01:23:18] Speaker 2: I did. I couldn't. [01:23:24] Speaker 1: We were shown five emails between you and the school. All those emails were from 2021 to 2022. Isn't that right? [01:23:31] Speaker 2: I get mixed up on dates, so it's whatever they say. [01:23:35] Speaker 1: They were from when Alex Xavier was in kindergarten. Does that help? [01:23:38] Speaker 2: I know there was emails from first grade as well. [01:23:40] Speaker 1: Okay. The ones that we were shown were from kindergarten? [01:23:42] Speaker 2: Okay. There wasn't one email from when he was in first grade. [01:23:51] Speaker 1: One from first grade? [01:23:52] Speaker 2: Yes. Okay. [01:24:01] Speaker 1: So that's five messages that we were shown over the course of two academic... [01:24:05] Speaker 2: We were shown a lot. I don't know the number. [01:24:11] Speaker 1: One of the things that you said when we left off before lunch, was that you were scared to say anything about Alex, no matter what. Do you recall saying that? [01:24:20] Speaker 2: I was scared to say anything about all the abuse. Yes. Okay. [01:24:23] Speaker 1: Even when Mr. Pedron was in custody the evening of February 10th, you were scared to say anything to Sergeant Kearney, correct? [01:24:30] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:24:32] Speaker 1: Or maybe it might be Deputy Kearney. Deputy Paff? [01:24:34] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:24:35] Speaker 1: You're scared to say anything to him? Scared to say anything to Laura Lee? Yes. Scared to say anything to your mom? [01:24:38] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:24:42] Speaker 1: Didn't say anything to any of those individuals because you're scared, right? [01:24:45] Speaker 2: Yes. I would cover up my bruises with stories. [01:24:49] Speaker 1: One of the things you said on direct examination yesterday is that you were threatened with violence even if you talked to another man. [01:24:54] Speaker 2: I was. [01:24:55] Speaker 1: You said you were excited to be talking to Rafael Suarez? [01:24:58] Speaker 2: I was. [01:24:58] Speaker 1: You were excited to be going on a date with him? [01:25:00] Speaker 2: I was. [01:25:00] Speaker 1: You were excited about the prospects of starting a new relationship? [01:25:04] Speaker 2: Possible, yes. Okay. [01:25:05] Speaker 1: You weren't afraid of that at all, but you were afraid of disclosing child abuse? Yes. To protect Xavier? [01:25:11] Speaker 2: To protect all of us, yes. Other kids were being abused as well. [01:25:17] Speaker 1: According to you? Argument. [01:25:19] Speaker 2: It's the truth. [01:25:22] Speaker 1: You saw the forensic interviews of the children, correct? [01:25:25] Speaker 2: I did. [01:25:25] Speaker 1: They didn't disclose any abuse by Mr. Pedron? [01:25:28] Speaker 2: They were scared of him, too. [01:25:29] Speaker 1: I didn't ask anything about the forensics. The forensic interviews? You did bring up the forensic interviews. You mean, which one's the two? I asked about disclosures regarding Mr. Pedron right now. I think that's a different topic in the forensic videos. [01:25:39] Speaker 4: Oh, yes. And Judge, I think this calls for comment on the credibility of other witnesses, which is improper. I think that this is argumentative in the form that it's asked, as well as hearsay and confrontation. [01:25:47] Speaker 1: It's an exception to hearsay. Counsel asked about the forensic interviews and her thoughts about the forensic interviews and disclosures on direct. I think it's appropriate. No, overruled. Go ahead. [01:25:55] Speaker 2: I said they were scared of Derek. [01:25:57] Speaker 1: They were scared, so that's why none of them said anything? [01:25:58] Speaker 2: Absolutely. [01:25:59] Speaker 1: Okay. But they did disclose a lot about you. [01:26:06] Speaker 2: Major did. [01:26:07] Speaker 1: Major did? Yes. So did Brantley? [01:26:09] Speaker 2: Brantley didn't. [01:26:10] Speaker 1: He said you choke. [01:26:14] Speaker 2: I don't recall what Brantley said. [01:26:16] Speaker 1: He said you hit. [01:26:17] Speaker 2: I never hit, Alex. [01:26:18] Speaker 1: I'm saying what he said. He said you hit. [01:26:19] Speaker 2: I never hit, and I never choked my children. [01:26:22] Speaker 1: He said you kick. [01:26:22] Speaker 2: I never kicked my children. [01:26:26] Speaker 1: The children were placed in separate homes before the forensic interviews were conducted and after the death of Al Xavier. Isn't that right? [01:26:32] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:26:33] Speaker 1: Major was with his dad? [01:26:34] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:26:35] Speaker 1: And his dad didn't live with you, right? [01:26:37] Speaker 2: No. [01:26:37] Speaker 1: He had no idea what or how you treated the children inside your home, correct? [01:26:41] Speaker 2: They were all talking to Major before the interview. [01:26:44] Speaker 1: They were all talking to Major. [01:26:45] Speaker 2: His grandma and his dad were calling the sergeant multiple times after talking to Major. [01:26:51] Speaker 1: About what Major was reporting, correct? [01:26:53] Speaker 2: Supposedly. [01:26:54] Speaker 1: And you know those calls were recorded, correct? [01:26:58] Speaker 2: To the sergeant? [01:26:59] Speaker 1: Yes. [01:26:59] Speaker 2: Not the ones to Major. [01:27:01] Speaker 1: And you know that the sergeant documented what those concerns were, and they weren't relative to the forensic video. Rejection calls for evidence beyond this witness's scope. It's the same. You've heard those recordings. I'll move on. Brantley was in a different home, correct? [01:27:16] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:27:17] Speaker 1: Brantley was in the home of one of your relatives. [01:27:19] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:27:21] Speaker 1: It was your relative that took Brantley to his forensic interview. [01:27:23] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:27:24] Speaker 1: Brantley, to your knowledge, was not having any contact with Major during that time frame, correct? [01:27:29] Speaker 2: I don't know. [01:27:44] Speaker 1: 153. These are the rules that you put in place for Mr. Pepper. Do you recognize this series of text messages? [01:27:54] Speaker 2: One second. [01:27:54] Speaker ?: One second. Thank you. [01:28:29] Speaker 1: Do you see about a little over one-third of the page down, it's a message from you, and it starts off with the word fix? [01:28:42] Speaker 2: Yes. Are you going to start with the first rule? [01:28:48] Speaker 1: Your first rule is fix the shit with no contact, correct? [01:28:52] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:28:52] Speaker 1: Okay. Your second rule is tell the truth. It's better for a family to communicate, and you and her won't ever be. That's talking about her and Mr. Pedra and Jenna Love, correct? [01:29:02] Speaker 2: I don't believe so. [01:29:07] Speaker 1: And your option on that other one is or tell me the truth, meaning tell me the truth about whether or not you're communicating with Jenna Love, right? [01:29:12] Speaker 2: No. [01:29:14] Speaker 1: Your next rule is get rid of bitches. [01:29:16] Speaker 2: Right. [01:29:17] Speaker 1: Because you thought he was seeing other women. [01:29:18] Speaker 2: I didn't know. [01:29:20] Speaker 1: And then the last one was make me feel loved, right? [01:29:23] Speaker 2: Right. And not abused. [01:29:25] Speaker 1: It doesn't say that. It just says make me feel loved. [01:29:27] Speaker 2: But I know how I felt. [01:29:30] Speaker 1: Your message is making me feel loved, right? He sent you a screenshot at the very end of this chain. I think it might be on your exhibit. I'm just turning it to mine so we can both look at it at the same time. The person in Mr. Pedra's phone is heart my life and then flowers, correct? At the very top. [01:29:54] Speaker 2: I see it. [01:29:55] Speaker 1: Yeah. And this is a text message to AUBZ, who's Aubrey, his daughter, right? [01:29:59] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:30:00] Speaker 1: And he's telling Aubrey that if there's communication when his mom gets out, there will still be a no-contact order in place. Isn't that right? [01:30:05] Speaker 2: Yes. That's what he says. [01:30:06] Speaker 1: He's doing this because this is what you want. [01:30:08] Speaker 2: No, I don't. I never controlled Derek. He controlled me. [01:30:11] Speaker 1: He's sending you a screenshot saying that he's not going to have a contact and telling Aubrey about that because this is one of your hoodles. [01:30:17] Speaker 2: No, it was not. [01:30:19] Speaker 1: Moving 153 in evidence. [01:30:20] Speaker 4: Here's a confrontation. This is her messages, right? No, it's a message that Mr. Pedra's sent to his daughter that was screenshot and sent to her. Okay. [01:30:32] Speaker 3: The earlier parts of the exhibit are received. The screenshot is hearsay, but the screenshot is in reference to what the response is, so it's completeness on allowed to be received. [01:30:48] Speaker 1: And my only argument would be it shows his actions based on the messages sent to him, sent back to her. [01:30:52] Speaker 2: I didn't make him do that. [01:30:53] Speaker 3: I think that's the definition of hearsay. That is the definition here, so I'm lulling in just to show what the series of conversations are and responses. Go ahead. [01:31:07] Speaker 1: I want to talk real briefly about the chain of events surrounding Alex Xavier's fall down the stairs, as reported by you, okay? That fall happened on January 14, 2023? [01:31:18] Speaker 2: I'm not good with dates, so I'm not good with dates, so I'm not good with dates, so. Okay. [01:31:20] Speaker 1: Did it happen the day before or the day of the birthday party that you attended for Christian? [01:31:24] Speaker 2: Again, I'm not good with dates. That's the hardest with my brain injury. [01:31:27] Speaker 1: Okay. If the birthday party that you attended for Christian was on a Saturday, you already represented to this jury that you wanted to get Alex Xavier medical care that Saturday at that party, correct? [01:31:38] Speaker 2: I did. [01:31:39] Speaker 1: And you also told us that it was Mr. Pedron who was drinking and wanted to stay drinking and did not want to get medical care for him, correct? [01:31:44] Speaker 2: Right. [01:31:45] Speaker 1: Okay. The next day is a Sunday, though, and Alex Xavier isn't taken in for medical care at any point on that Sunday, is he? [01:31:51] Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I do not remember the date to Subler. [01:31:53] Speaker 1: Okay. He's not able to walk at all on Saturday. You have to pick him up and carry him. Isn't that right? [01:31:58] Speaker 2: I did. [01:31:58] Speaker ?: Okay. [01:31:59] Speaker 1: And you had to carry him, not only just physically carry him out of the car, but carry him into the house? [01:32:02] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:32:02] Speaker 1: And you had to carry him and put him on a bed? [01:32:04] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:32:04] Speaker 1: And you told us earlier that you had balance issues, and so you didn't think you could do something like kick a child, but you're carrying around a 47-pound child. [01:32:10] Speaker 2: It was very hard. [01:32:11] Speaker 1: It was very hard, but you were capable of doing it, right? [01:32:13] Speaker 2: I didn't. I had to hold on with all my might. [01:32:18] Speaker 1: And you carried him in that house? Almost dropping him, yes. And you carried him out of that house? [01:32:22] Speaker 2: By the time I got to the vehicle or the bed, I was literally holding on until he was, like, to my knees. I struggled. The left side of my body is very weak. [01:32:33] Speaker 1: And you could physically pick him up and put him in a grocery cart, correct? [01:32:36] Speaker 2: Again, I struggled. [01:32:37] Speaker 1: That's higher up even to put a child. [01:32:38] Speaker 2: If you can see where he was sitting in that grocery cart, it was on the seat, not in the cart. It wasn't in the cart. They had those double seats, so it wasn't like I was lifting him in the cart. [01:32:54] Speaker 1: You picked him up and put him in the cart was my question. [01:32:56] Speaker 2: Not in the cart, no. [01:32:58] Speaker 1: You pick him up and carry him around the house? [01:33:00] Speaker ?: No. [01:33:01] Speaker 1: You moved him from the couch to the bed on the evening of February 10th? [01:33:05] Speaker 2: Yes. Again, my right side is stronger than my left, so I sacrificed my right side. [01:33:17] Speaker 1: You have the ability to balance and carry a 47-pound child. [01:33:20] Speaker 2: I sacrificed my right side a lot, and I used the bed to scoot him to where he was laying. I've learned to live with this disability. [01:33:48] Speaker 1: Outside of sending one video to Loralee involving Al-Xavier being yelled at by his father and telling her to keep it and hold on to it and not send it out. Is there another example you have anywhere of how you protected this child from this claimed abuse that you say was being committed time and time again? [01:34:07] Speaker 2: I sent over a dozen videos to Loralee. [01:34:10] Speaker 1: That's according to you, not her, though, right? [01:34:12] Speaker 2: It's the truth. [01:34:12] Speaker 1: With all this abuse happening to the children in the house, according to you, to Al-Xavier, to the other children, you never reported it to law enforcement once? [01:34:27] Speaker 2: I did. [01:34:28] Speaker 1: When? [01:34:28] Speaker 2: On the 911 call. [01:34:30] Speaker 1: You never reported it to police after making that 911 call? When you were interviewed, did you? [01:34:36] Speaker 2: I did that one time. I felt like I could that one time. After that, I was scared for our lives. [01:34:41] Speaker 1: Scared for your lives to report child abuse, but excited for your life to go on a date. Thank you. Argumentative. Move to strike. [01:34:46] Speaker ?: Same. [01:34:48] Speaker 3: All right. Redirect. All right. [01:35:20] Speaker 4: I want to talk about this issue with the shower. Back in 2023, how did you wear your hair? [01:35:46] Speaker 2: I wore it either down or up. [01:35:49] Speaker 4: Was it about the same length and, I was going to say width, but the same boldness as now? [01:35:55] Speaker 2: Yes. My hair has always been long. [01:35:57] Speaker 4: Okay. How did you go about drying your hair after you get out of the shower? [01:36:01] Speaker 2: I put it up in a towel. [01:36:03] Speaker 4: So you wouldn't blow dry it right after a shower? [01:36:05] Speaker 2: No. [01:36:06] Speaker 4: And, Josie, if you are in the shower, would you wash off makeup or other things that you were wearing? [01:36:11] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:36:12] Speaker 4: I'm going to show what's already been emitted. Josie, take a look at your hair here on the zoomed out view. Does that look like you had recently been in the shower? No. Does it look dry and like in the position that it normally would have been? Yes. And I got a quick makeup tutorial over lunch from Sanchez here, but does it look like you're wearing lip gloss or something on your lips? [01:36:39] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:36:39] Speaker 4: Is that something that normally you would have washed off in the shower? [01:36:42] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:36:43] Speaker 4: Zoom in here to your eyes and it looks like you're wearing eyeliner on the upper and lower sections of your eyes. Is that correct? [01:36:53] Speaker 2: Eyeliner and mascara. [01:36:54] Speaker 4: Mascara. Okay. Mascara is the one on top, right? [01:36:56] Speaker 2: That's the eyelashes. [01:36:57] Speaker 4: Oh, the mask. Would you have put makeup back on after a shower? [01:37:02] Speaker 2: No. Not if I was going to sleep. [01:37:12] Speaker 4: Josie, fair to say that there were some flirty texts about possibly taking a shower with Raph in the series of those messages? [01:37:18] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:37:21] Speaker 4: You're familiar with that bathtub? I have one like that myself in my house. Is it your experience that droplets of water will remain in the tub for a period of time after taking a shower? [01:37:34] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:37:34] Speaker 4: And did you see any water or evidence of a recent shower in the tub? [01:37:37] Speaker 2: No. [01:37:46] Speaker 4: We're all addicted to our telephones these days. Are there parts of the day where you're not using your phone, Josie? [01:37:52] Speaker 2: If I'm holding the kids to get them to sleep, apparently it was big on that. I had to hold him and rub his back. If I was watching TV, I would not. If I was eating something, I wouldn't. If I had a bad headache, because if I'm on the phone too much, I get the screen. I have to take a break. [01:38:11] Speaker 4: Oh, but if you're playing with the kids? [01:38:12] Speaker 2: Yes. I stopped. One of the reasons, other than Derek accusing me of stuff, I stopped going on Facebook also because I noticed it was taking me away from the children. [01:38:26] Speaker 4: Does it strike you as unusual at all, Josie, that there would be a period of time that you're not sending or receiving texts for half an hour to 40 minutes or however long that was? [01:38:35] Speaker 2: Yes. Yes, I'm still like that. I won't text people back for a long period of time. [01:38:40] Speaker 4: Did you take a shower? [01:38:42] Speaker 2: No. [01:38:44] Speaker 4: So, going to after Alex died, did you want Derek to see the kids? [01:38:51] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:38:51] Speaker 4: Why is that? [01:38:53] Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know why, but even being abused and going through all that trauma, you just, part of you wants that person there. And I just wanted a piece of Alex. I wanted a piece of, even though he was so abusive, I wanted to feel like Alex was there. I wanted to feel like that life was there. And even if I was getting beaten, I just wanted to feel like my family was there, just for a second. [01:39:31] Speaker 4: Was Derek seeing the kids regularly after Alex died? [01:39:33] Speaker 2: He would not come see the kids. He would come in the night only to see me. [01:39:38] Speaker 4: Were you upset with Derek for not coming to see the rest of his kids? [01:39:41] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:39:43] Speaker 4: Now, the state suggested that you wanted Derek to come over to have sex with you. Was that the case? [01:39:48] Speaker 2: No, but that's all he wanted. [01:39:51] Speaker 4: So, Josie, you were asked several times why you didn't mention child abuse before. Do you recall those questions? [01:39:57] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:39:58] Speaker 4: What were you trying to tell Sergeant Cranine when you told him that you were scared of Derek? [01:40:03] Speaker 2: It was so hard to open up and talk to the police about what was happening. It's like I couldn't get it out because of the fear. And when I told him, I was scared. Part of me wanted him to just care and be there and ask. But I couldn't get it all out. I just, the fear took over. And all I could see was what would happen if I did. What would happen if I told? He would find me. He would, pictures of the guns. People he knew would find me. He would kill me and the kids and then himself. [01:40:45] Speaker 4: Josie, did you believe that the police had any ability to protect you or the kids if he disclosed that Derek had been harming the children? [01:40:51] Speaker 2: No, because he always got out. He always got the charges dropped. He always blamed me, made me get the no contact drop, made me found the DA. [01:41:06] Speaker 4: We're able to confide in Brian Moldenhauer about some of the abuse that was going on at home. [01:41:13] Speaker 2: Yes, Brian was a very good friend of mine. He's one of those people that I've known for high school and he's just never changed. He's been the same person since high school and he's a farmer and he's never been through trauma. He's just a really good person that I could talk to. [01:41:33] Speaker 4: Josie, you recall the 911 call where you said that Derek did the same thing to a six-year-old as well? [01:41:39] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:41:40] Speaker 4: Was that a moment of fear where you were, were you scared saying that even to the dispatcher? [01:41:45] Speaker 2: I was and I just spit it out and I was scared. [01:41:49] Speaker 4: And did anybody ever ask you what that meant? [01:41:52] Speaker 2: No. [01:41:53] Speaker 4: On the topic of protecting the kids from Derek, did you try getting a restraining order against him? [01:41:57] Speaker 2: I did. [01:41:59] Speaker 4: And do you recall in that restraining order, did you mention that Derek was becoming violent with the children? Questions beyond the scope. They'd open this door. [01:42:08] Speaker 3: It's overruled. Go ahead. [01:42:09] Speaker 4: Let me see what you're talking. This appeared to be a restraining order that you tried seeking against Derek? [01:42:54] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:42:55] Speaker 4: Did anybody help you with that? [01:42:57] Speaker 2: A lady from Salvation Army. [01:43:03] Speaker 4: Okay. So this was the social worker at the Salvation Army? [01:43:05] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:43:06] Speaker 4: I see the date on page three here. Is it signed June 25th of 2019? Is that accurate? [01:43:10] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:43:11] Speaker 4: Would that have been the date that you signed it? [01:43:13] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:43:14] Speaker 4: It looks like the notary is our current court reporter. Is that correct? [01:43:17] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:43:18] Speaker 4: So, Josie, on the back, there was a section where you had to write what had happened with Derek. Do you recall that? [01:43:25] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:43:26] Speaker 1: And for the purposes of this exhibit, I'm going to ask that to use for the limited purposes related to the children only. [01:43:30] Speaker 4: Yep. That's all I'm going to use it for. Thank you. And I'm just going to highlight a section here. Did you write that Derek uses violent force towards the children at our home? [01:43:44] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:43:45] Speaker 4: What did you mean by that? [01:43:46] Speaker 2: He was violent towards the children and he would hurt them. [01:43:53] Speaker 3: For the sole purposes he used to be received for that sole purpose. Josie, what happened with that restraining order? [01:44:03] Speaker 2: He didn't follow it and. [01:44:06] Speaker 1: I'm going to object. I don't think. Can we have a sidebar on this? [01:44:09] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:44:33] Speaker ?: Thank you. [01:45:03] Speaker 4: Let's talk about the house again and we've already agreed that the house was pretty messy and pretty cluttered. Is that fair? [01:45:23] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:45:24] Speaker 4: Do you think that you would have noticed if a particular piece of property like that purse was on or off the floor at the time? [01:45:30] Speaker 2: No. [01:45:30] Speaker 4: I want to talk about Derek's call after, Derek's phone call to you after he was arrested on the 10th, or excuse me, your phone call to Derek after you were arrested in May of 2023. Do you remember talking about that? [01:45:43] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:45:45] Speaker 4: How were you feeling at that moment, Josie? [01:45:48] Speaker 2: I was in shock. I didn't understand my charges. I had to keep asking the jailers what my charges were. I miss my kids. They were crying for me on the phone. [01:46:01] Speaker 4: Oh, what did you mean, Josie, when you told Derek that you got what you wanted, I'm being blamed for it? [01:46:06] Speaker 2: Before I got arrested, Derek kept telling me that. [01:46:10] Speaker 4: This calls for hearsay. Yeah. What did you mean by that comment, Josie? [01:46:18] Speaker 2: Derek said he was going to blame me. [01:46:19] Speaker 1: This calls for hearsay. She's responding with his answers. [01:46:22] Speaker 3: Back to the listener. So it's not being offered for the truth of the matter, only for the effect on listeners. Only for why she would say that. Yeah, go ahead. Okay, go ahead, Josie. [01:46:29] Speaker 2: Derek said that when he was beating me at my mom's, that he was going to blame me for Alex's murder or death. [01:46:37] Speaker 4: Why would you tell this man that you love him on the phone? [01:46:41] Speaker 2: Because I was in a situation where I was alone. I wanted my kids. And I needed love. [01:46:55] Speaker 4: I'm going to follow up a little bit on what you offered earlier with the state. But have you known Derek to have others clock him in or out of work if he was late or leaving early? [01:47:03] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:47:04] Speaker 4: Call for hearsay. [01:47:05] Speaker 3: The question was asked why she believed. This is what she believed. Go ahead. [01:47:12] Speaker 2: He would come home and brag about it. [01:47:15] Speaker 3: That's hearsay. I'd ask that to be struck him. Given the situation, I'll allow her to answer that question. [01:47:23] Speaker 4: So talking about that purse or the coach bag, Josie, you said that you believed it was on the hanger shelf. Did you know that it was there for sure? [01:47:30] Speaker 2: In my mind, I picture it was on there. [01:47:33] Speaker 4: Do you know whether or not Derek accessed that bag while he was in the room with Alex? [01:47:37] Speaker 2: I don't know. I didn't. [01:47:41] Speaker 4: Along kind of the same lines, why did you ask to lift a no contact order with Derek after Alex died? [01:47:47] Speaker 2: Because we had a mutual hurt in common and that was Alex. [01:47:53] Speaker 4: Do you have some testimony that you wanted to feel something? You wanted to feel like Alex was still around. Is that accurate? I did. [01:47:57] Speaker 2: And I just wanted to feel, even if it was hurt and pain, I just wanted to feel some type of closeness to Alex. [01:48:09] Speaker 4: Well, Josie, you were asked why you couldn't take Alex to the doctor on Sunday after the birthday party. Do you remember that question? [01:48:15] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:48:16] Speaker 4: What was going on in your life where you couldn't take Alex to the doctor yourself on Sunday? [01:48:22] Speaker 2: In the morning of Sunday, when we got by from the birthday, Derek had beaten me to the point where I could not move because he accused me of him getting beat up by the Hispanics. [01:48:36] Speaker 4: By the Spanish-speaking men? [01:48:37] Speaker 2: Yeah. [01:48:38] Speaker 4: Was there any reason why Derek couldn't take Alex to the doctor on Sunday? [01:48:42] Speaker 2: No. [01:48:44] Speaker 4: Josie, in terms of the staircase, what efforts did Derek make to protect that staircase from children playing around it or falling on it? [01:48:53] Speaker 2: He didn't. [01:48:54] Speaker 4: He did nothing at all? [01:48:54] Speaker 2: No. [01:48:56] Speaker 4: Regarding the emails to and from Hinchin, the school district, were there additional emails that we didn't discuss between you and the staff of Hinchin? [01:49:04] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:49:05] Speaker 4: Were you in fairly regular contact with the school? [01:49:08] Speaker 2: Yes. They considered me a helicopter parent. [01:49:11] Speaker 4: A helicopter parent? Did I get that right? [01:49:12] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:49:16] Speaker 4: In terms of the text sequence that you were asked about where Derek swung by your mom's house to get something, would your mom occasionally have things for you, food or utensils or anything else? [01:49:26] Speaker 2: Yes. She'd pick up clothes for the kids. She'd pick up, if I couldn't afford Tylenol, ibuprofen, soda, water. I mean, whatever. You know, anything. She'd find something on sale. She'd pick it up for me. Okay. She was a mom. [01:49:43] Speaker 4: And if that trip to your mother's happened the following day, do you know if Derek was still drunk and high, like you said, on the 20th? [01:49:50] Speaker 2: I don't know. [01:49:51] Speaker 4: Why would you say in those text messages that Alex needs to be here at home healing and not out getting drunk and high with you? [01:49:58] Speaker 2: That would have been the day before he went to my mom's. [01:50:02] Speaker 4: And why would you say that to Derek in a text that needs to be home healing, not out getting drunk and high with you? [01:50:08] Speaker 1: Because Derek was asked and answered in direct, Virgil. [01:50:12] Speaker 4: Sustained. Were you telling the truth when you made those statements on the text messages, Josie? Asked and answered. Sustained. Did you have any reason to believe that those texts from the 19th and the 20th of January would one day be used in a homicide trial three years later? That's an answer. Overruled on that. [01:50:29] Speaker 2: No, I would not. And I wouldn't have ruled them if they weren't true. [01:50:32] Speaker 4: Give me one second, Jeff. [01:50:46] Speaker 1: All I have on redirects. [01:50:49] Speaker 3: Recross. [01:50:50] Speaker 1: I just want to touch briefly on the photograph that you were talking about after sending the text message that said, I just showered, okay? The time frame where your phone has no activity is from roughly 747 to 829, correct? [01:51:03] Speaker 2: I believe so. [01:51:04] Speaker 1: Okay. The text message photo that you send to Rafael Suarez, the photo that we've seen in court, that's sent at approximately 920. Isn't that correct? [01:51:11] Speaker 2: If that's what it says. [01:51:12] Speaker 1: Okay. And the photograph, you take a number of selfies according to your phone activity before you pick that one to send to your date for the next day. Isn't that right? [01:51:20] Speaker 2: That's what I usually do, yes. [01:51:21] Speaker 1: Phones have filters on them, correct? [01:51:24] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:51:24] Speaker 1: You're also sending a text message to someone you're going on a date with the very next day, correct? [01:51:28] Speaker ?: Yes. Okay. [01:51:29] Speaker 1: You want to look your best. You want to show your best for that date. Isn't that right? [01:51:32] Speaker 2: I mean, I guess, yeah. [01:51:35] Speaker 1: People don't generally send a text message to someone they're about to date the next day with no makeup, nothing on. [01:51:40] Speaker 2: I do. [01:51:41] Speaker 1: You do. [01:51:41] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:51:42] Speaker 1: Okay. That's not what you did here, though, is it? [01:51:44] Speaker 2: I already had makeup on. [01:51:46] Speaker 1: After you showered. [01:51:47] Speaker 2: I didn't shower. [01:51:48] Speaker 1: I understand you say that today. All right. Any redirect? [01:51:54] Speaker 4: Josie, did you regularly wear makeup to bed? [01:51:57] Speaker 2: No. [01:51:58] Speaker 4: And the time frame of 747 to 829, would that have been right after Derek was arrested? [01:52:04] Speaker 2: I believe so. They're not good at time. [01:52:06] Speaker 4: He was arrested around 730? [01:52:08] Speaker 2: I think so. [01:52:09] Speaker 4: Were the kids upset at all by the fact that Derek had been arrested? Attractions behind the scope. [01:52:14] Speaker 3: It's related to this timing issue. I'll allow that question to be asked. [01:52:17] Speaker 2: Not this time, no. [01:52:18] Speaker ?: Okay. [01:52:19] Speaker 4: Did you have some things to do with getting the kids to bed and getting the kids rounded up after Derek was arrested? [01:52:24] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:52:26] Speaker 4: Did you use a filter on your phone when you were taking those selfies, Josie? [01:52:29] Speaker 2: I'm not good with the filters, and those are usually on Snapchat, other than, like, attempts for the background. [01:52:35] Speaker 4: We don't see cartoon dog ears or anything on you, correct? [01:52:37] Speaker 2: No, I don't know how to wear those, unless it's on Snapchat. [01:52:40] Speaker 4: Were you wearing makeup in that photograph? [01:52:41] Speaker 2: I was. [01:52:42] Speaker 4: Nothing further. Anything further than that? Nothing on that. [01:52:45] Speaker 3: Okay. [01:52:47] Speaker 2: Yes. Thank you, Josh. [01:52:50] Speaker 3: Can I step down? Why don't we take a break for...