JD Vance, Trump and the Iran war problem

[0:00] Is J.D. Vance facing his biggest political test to date? [0:04] The vice president has long questioned American intervention abroad. [0:08] And now he's in the awkward position of being the VP to a president who has launched a war in Iran. [0:14] And Trump says Vance will be involved in talks to end it. [0:17] From the BBC, I'm Asma Khalid in London. [0:20] And welcome to The Global Story on YouTube. [0:24] Daniel, it's wonderful to have you on The Global Story. [0:30] And I feel so bad that you're there in our bureau in D.C. [0:34] And I actually happen to be here in London, but it's wonderful to have you. [0:37] Thanks so much for having me. [0:38] You've been a White House reporter for years. [0:42] You have met J.D. Vance, the vice president. [0:44] You have interviewed scores of people who know him, who know what his policies are, who know what his ambitions are. [0:52] And so I want to begin with a broad question here. [0:54] And that is, how would you say J.D. Vance sees the world? [0:59] It's a very good place to start. [1:01] I think that the best answer is to say that he is a creature of his environment and of his era. [1:08] We all know J.D. Vance's backstory, and we'll get into that, I think, in a little bit more detail. [1:14] But he is someone who grew up and came of age in the Bush era, in a moment in time when America became involved in not just one but two wars abroad. [1:25] There was a huge debate in the United States about what America's role should be in the world. [1:31] What its relationship should be to its allies, how it should project power. [1:35] And J.D. Vance served in the Marines. [1:38] And that was a formative period for him that has really, I think, informed who he's become as a politician. [1:47] So, you know, it's fair to say that J.D. [1:50] Vance, I think, sees the world both through the prism of his current jobs, but also through his own experiences, having grown up in the Midwest, having served in the army, having been in Iraq and sort of [2:00] began to work in the military. [2:01] And so I think that's a really good question. [2:01] I think that's a really good question. [2:01] And it's interesting because, you know, to people who lived through the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, Americans in the United States, they will remember a period of time when it was Republicans who were supporting intervention abroad, right? [2:20] It was what liberals used to call neocons or neoconservatives who were pushing America to invade Iraq, to go into Afghanistan after 9-11 and Democrats pushing. [2:31] It was what liberals used to call neoconservatives who were pushing. [2:31] It was what liberals used to call neoconservatives who were pushing. [2:31] And it was actually Republicans and those MAGA, core MAGA supporters of the presidents and now of Vance's who are requesting, pushing, demanding that the U.S. take a step back, that the U.S. become more isolationist, spend less money abroad and more money at home. [2:54] And that has really been J.D. Vance's mindset writ large. [2:59] So we're having this conversation. [3:00] Now, in the midst of the war in Iran and there have been reports that J.D. Vance has been tasked to help negotiate a possible resolution, a possible end to this war. [3:14] And I was intrigued when I saw those reports, Dan, in part because Vance doesn't strike me as someone who's had Iran or the Middle East as a big part of his remit. [3:23] What's your sense of why President Trump has asked him to be a part of negotiating an end to the war? [3:28] So in speaking with people who are close. [3:31] To J.D. Vance, I do know and have reporting that J.D. Vance right now, the vice president, is not involved in the weeds of this negotiation. [3:41] He has been tasked or floated as someone who can step in if the negotiations get to a more concrete point. [3:50] Steve Witkoff, President Trump's special envoy, and Jared Kushner, his son in law, are leading these negotiations. [3:56] They are the ones who are talking indirectly to the Iranians. [4:00] Who are proposing this 15 point peace plan that has come out in the last two weeks or so and that are really trying to work through the details to see if Iran is open to any kind of a deal to end this war. [4:12] Then we can send in in J.D. [4:14] Vance as an example or as a I should say, as a symbol of how serious we are about winding down the war. [4:20] Before we can talk about J.D. [4:22] Vance as vice president, I think it's worth reminding listeners how he rose through the political ranks. [4:28] He, in fact, only became a senator. [4:30] He was elected in 2022 for the state of Ohio, and two years after that, of course, Donald Trump selected him as his running mate. [4:39] And it was a rather remarkable turnaround for a man who had previously described himself as a never Trump guy, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he even once compared Trump to Hitler. [4:52] Right. He had very strong criticism of Donald Trump. [4:55] How has he managed to shape himself into the loyal vice president? [5:01] Well, look, I think that all politicians sort of morph a little bit and change over time, you know, to suit different audiences and different voters and bases. [5:12] But by the time that Vance began to contemplate a run for office and then finally launched his first political run in 2021, 2022, this was the party of Trump. [5:23] And Vance understood that he went to Mar-a-Lago for a meeting with Trump. [5:30] And it was a tense meeting. [5:31] He had spoken to people who with knowledge of it, it began with Vance sitting down and Trump immediately bringing up all of the slights, all of the criticisms to Vance's face that Vance had made of him in the past. [5:43] I mean, Trump is someone who navigate that. [5:45] Well, he he showed the shrewd political instincts that got him where he was. [5:49] You know, he didn't pretend that he hadn't said them. [5:53] You know, he immediately apologized, I've been told, and said, listen, I got it wrong. [5:58] And what I've been told is that Trump appreciated that candor. [6:01] And that sort of helped catapult him, you know, to to the Senate, because then Trump endorsed him. [6:07] And Vance is one of the first prominent Republicans in Washington to step out almost right away and back Donald Trump. [6:14] And so Trump saw that early endorsement from Vance as loyalty that he eventually repaid. [6:21] Well, J.D. Vance strikes me as the type of person that the Trump administration calls when they want to have a particularly blunt, tough conversation. [6:31] You know what? [6:31] You know, one of the first foreign trips that J.D. [6:34] Vance took was to the Munich Security Conference is often a venue where American vice presidents speak. [6:39] But he went there and he berated European leaders, scolded them, whatever the word is you want to use. [6:47] And it was a really stunning moment. [6:51] How did you interpret that? [6:52] And what did that tell us about how J.D. [6:55] Vance was going to interact with the world? [6:58] It really was stunning. [6:59] I mean, this was very unusual. [7:01] This is the type of. [7:02] This is the type of venue that is sort of training ground for a vice president where they can bring the message of the administration, they can sort of burnish their own foreign policy chops a little bit and where they're expected to develop close relationships with allies. [7:17] And instead, J.D. [7:18] Vance showed up and delivered a speech, the likes of which had not been seen in that venue. [7:22] And I've spoken to European diplomats who were taken aback at the candor with which, you know, he presented his own views, the rhetoric, the really aggressive. [7:32] Tone. [7:33] I had the speech pulled up here and that was reading it. [7:36] Yeah, I had of this. [7:38] And, you know, he said that if you're running in fear of your own voters, there is nothing America can do for you, nor for that matter, is there anything that you can do for the American people who elected me and elected President Trump? [7:52] But what he was saying sort of in short was that Europeans were stifling free speech in the name of political correctness. [8:01] And he gave an example. [8:02] example of someone who is arrested for praying outside of an abortion clinic and you know Vance's [8:09] message was this was someone who was just professing his faith and his argument to Europe [8:14] was you need to let everyone express the views that they want to express he went after Europeans [8:20] on that and then he also had very harsh words on migration and of all the pressings challenges that [8:26] the nation's represented to your face I believe there is nothing more urgent than mass migration [8:33] he presented a lot of problems um and in a pretty hectoring and aggressive way um that that put [8:41] Europe on notice and but he did win some praise from Republicans back home and I think that's [8:47] important to focus on because it was lost a little bit in the moment there's a lot of criticism [8:51] um but it was something that that Republicans here some some parts of the party some factions [8:56] of the party [8:57] wanted to see you wanted to see a politician go to Europe and stand up to yes yes yes exactly that [9:04] and to say you know the sort of the the free lunch is over we're no longer being defense spending [9:10] being defense spending being um you know promoting and offering other forms of soft power support to [9:17] European democracies this was happening in the context of the Ukraine war right and and Vance [9:22] did go and reiterate that message we've heard from President Trump right that that [9:26] European [9:27] Republicans need to pay more of their fair share was that part of his message as well but that was [9:33] a more behind the scenes message and it's striking that in that speech Ukraine was mentioned in a [9:38] single sentence this is three years into the largest land war in Europe since World War II [9:44] that was on the minds of the Germans who hosted the conference as they tried to figure out whether [9:49] they would need to step up support for Ukraine for uh France for the UK for others for NATO obviously [9:57] that was the big issue and Vance sort of glanced over it he said at the beginning you know we're [10:02] hopeful that under Trump we're going to get a resolution to this war you know pretty quickly [10:06] and then he moved on no shortly after the vice president gave that speech in Munich in February [10:14] of last year I remember I remember this because I was on White House duty in my old job at NPR that [10:20] day Ukraine's president Volodymyr Zelensky came to the White House and there was this epic showdown [10:27] in which JD Vance played a rather prominent role more than a lot of people said they should have [10:35] have you said thank you once no in this entire meeting you said thank you you went to Pennsylvania [10:41] and campaigned for the opposition in October offer some words of appreciation for the United [10:47] States of America and the president who's trying to save your country what did we learn about the [10:53] vice president's approach to negotiations from what transpired on that day in which [10:58] he publicly told Ukraine's leader that you know that Ukraine ought to be more thankful for the [11:04] support it's gotten from the American government and from the American people it was quite a moment [11:09] I was there that day on White House duty as well it was I mean you know people who had covered the [11:14] White House for years had never seen anything like this right a shouting match between the [11:18] president the vice president and a foreign leader a head of state and we learned a couple of things [11:23] I think you know if we look at JD Vance the human not just [11:28] his policies and so on but but how is this person adapting to this role right and we just talked [11:34] about his quick rise he's not someone who had long years of experience in in foreign relations and [11:39] public service and so on I mean he's been in many ways thrust onto the national scene in just the [11:44] last couple of years and he didn't shrink from the moment I mean this is a a delicate issue the [11:49] U.S has spent already billions tens and tens of billions of dollars in military aid and in [11:54] economic support to Ukraine let's change our relationship with Russia to a certain extent [11:58] China it was a moment where people were were Republicans were expecting him to focus on the [12:03] task at hand which was how do you get zelensky and Russian president Vladimir Putin to find a [12:08] way to end this war which has killed so many people and so Dan this leads me to a central [12:13] question that I have here which is how how you think this is all going to play out in the Iran [12:17] negotiations I mean it strikes me that what we have here is not just a war between the United [12:23] States and and Iran you have an important third party here and that is Israel [12:28] do you know how Vance has navigated that relationship with Israel and how that might [12:35] factor into any effort to end the war it's a very good question as men I think that um you know U.S [12:41] Israeli politics and the relationship between these two countries is a really presents a really [12:48] delicate balancing act for politicians on both sides of the aisle here in the U.S um you know [12:54] Democrats and Republicans are very careful about criticizing [12:59] Israel the U.S provides billions in in aid to Israel every year it's written into the budget [13:05] um and also to to present the U.S as the protector of the the National Project of Israel of a of a [13:16] nation state though there's a strain in the Republican Party it feels that has been more [13:20] vocal in in recent weeks in questioning why the United States is participating in this war and [13:26] at times blaming Israel for entering [13:29] Israel for pushing the United States for this war that's right and and so that's the sort of the [13:33] balancing act that the Vance has been presented with you know on the one hand he does need to [13:39] message to those Republicans who are both lawmakers in Congress some of them and then you [13:45] know parts of the base he does need to message to them that he understands their concerns that you [13:51] know this war could drag on it could you know lead the U.S into a longer term conflict in the Middle [13:59] East and you know there's a bit of that as you just mentioned and I think that the the agenda right [14:07] now is is trying to find a way to to end the war which is the objective of of Trump and the White [14:10] House and and that's who he reports to so we know that that Vance has spoken with the Israeli Prime [14:17] Minister Benjamin Netanyahu so he has served as a sort of go-between and Vance's style his his [14:22] approach to this role has really been trying to not ruffle feathers. [14:25] In doing some prep for our conversation I went back to writings and interviews that J.D. Vance has done over the years and I can be honest with you as a U.S. and I would be more as a U.S. if she had done that that would have been hard for her but I think she hasn't that much to say I just feel like she's not willing to hold it all. [14:29] came across this opinion piece he had written in the pages of the Wall Street Journal. It's from [14:33] 2023. And it's titled, and I want to read this to you, the byline here is J.D. Vance. It is titled [14:38] Trump's best foreign policy, question mark, not starting any wars. And so it seemed like J.D. [14:45] Vance was articulating his support for Donald Trump as a candidate for president in part because [14:51] he was a man he believed would not get the United States involved in more foreign adventures and [14:57] wars abroad. Here we are in January. The United States captured Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela. And [15:04] then the next month, the U.S. started a war in Iran. How has J.D. Vance been managing this all? [15:12] This isn't an easy moment for J.D. Vance. You know, he is tied to Trump. He's tied to Trump [15:19] as a political figure on the right. He's tied more concretely, you know, in the here and now [15:24] to Trump's record. And, you know, were Vance to run, [15:28] in 2028, that will be this will be a big part of it. And, you know, to a certain extent, [15:34] vice presidents can can raise their hands and they say, you know, we don't make the policy. [15:38] But on the other hand, you know, they are expected to support what the president does. And the I [15:46] think it's fair to say that that the public see doesn't see a lot of daylight between the two. [15:51] Right. You know, distancing himself at times, even physically. And I can tell tell the story. [15:58] I mean, you know, we've been talking to sources and it's now public that the night that of the war, [16:04] which began in the early morning hours of February 28th, President Trump was down in Mar-a-Lago in a [16:10] sort of makeshift situation room there at his Florida state with Secretary of State Rubio, with [16:15] his chief of staff, Susie Wiles, with others. One notable absence, Asma, Vice President Vance. [16:23] Vance was not there. You know, if we think back to those famous pictures of the Osama bin Laden [16:28] right when the Obama administration went into Pakistan and killed Osama bin Laden and that famous shot [16:34] in a small room off the Situation Room where Obama was surrounded by all of his top people. [16:39] Right. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton at the time, his vice president, Joe Biden and and others. [16:45] And it was a it presented a picture symbolically of a united team. [16:49] And that is not the imagery that we got at the beginning of this war in Iran, which is the biggest foreign [16:54] conflict that President Trump has gotten into, you know, in either of his terms. [16:58] Vance was not down there in Florida. [16:59] He was, as I was told by sources in the Situation Room at the White House, as you know, covering the White House. [17:05] We don't know all the behind the scenes details. [17:08] There are security considerations. [17:09] There are scheduling considerations. [17:10] There are all sorts of reasons why, in addition to the politics of all this, they may have been in different places. [17:16] But the symbolism was hard to miss. [17:18] My final question for you is that we are talking about J.D. [17:22] Vance not just because he's the vice president, but because he has been seen as the [17:28] heir apparent of the MAGA movement, the Make America Great Again movement. [17:33] And a key pillar of that is that that you're going to focus on making America a priority, which in turn means no more foreign wars. [17:42] How do you think that J.D. [17:43] Vance manages to balance these competing ambitions? [17:47] He has the ambition to be the loyal vice president in this job, and yet he also has his own personal political ambitions. [17:55] That is the the conundrum that has faced all vice presidents. [17:58] You know, we've had a lot of people who have wanted to become president, which is to say almost all of them, with some exceptions. [18:07] You know, 2028 is a long way away. [18:10] But as as a fellow veteran of the campaign trail, you know as well as I do that it will be here before we know it. [18:16] And in fact, you know, everyone who is interested in running is beginning quietly to sort of feel that out. [18:22] Right. To talk to donors, to talk to advisers, to think about messaging. [18:25] You know, people will be announcing their presidential campaigns a year from now. [18:29] That is the question. [18:29] So we need to talk to our voices and try to answer that. [18:32] You know, we've got to find ways that we can continue to move forward and continue to develop our democracy. [18:36] And that is what I learned. [18:37] And I'm talking about not just the current thing and the second thing going, but the ongoing work that we're doing around this project in terms of the federal government and the federal government in general. [18:46] You know, you speak about the increase in voter turnout in the country, but you also talk about the increase in voter votes in terms of the number of people that are voting in this country. [18:56] And I think that's a little bit of a surprise. [18:58] Yeah. [18:58] So one thing I would say. 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