Is UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer fighting for his job over Mandelson row? — BBC Newscast

[0:00] hello it's adam in the newscast studio and it is chris at westminster later on we're going to catch [0:05] up with lise doucette because she has managed to get into iran she's been there for a couple of [0:09] days and she's been speaking to me from tehran the capital so we'll get an interesting insight [0:14] into what life is like actually in that country that we've talked about so much over the last [0:18] couple of weeks but first of all we're gonna get the latest from chris at westminster and the [0:22] mandelson appointment saga or the subplot of the saga which was about his vetting being refused by [0:29] the vetting agency but sir ollie robbins the then chief civil servant at the foreign office overruling [0:35] that as he was entitled to do to give him security clearance anyway and today was a sort of big [0:40] milestone moment in that story that's been rumbling since thursday which was keir starmer in the house [0:44] of commons facing mps over all of this uh chris what sort of parliamentary moment did this feel like [0:51] it felt like a big moment and i'll tell you what really stood out for me adam was how quiet it was [0:56] you kind of associate big parliamentary moments where there's a bit of jeopardy in the air with [1:01] noise uh i mean pmqs every week is an example of that but also you're more sort of big set piece [1:06] occasions whether it's budgets or indeed moments where things might be difficult for someone i was [1:11] really struck to the prime minister's opening statement lasted about 15 20 minutes which was [1:16] long for yeah and and for the for the best part of i don't know 70 80 percent of it the the house [1:23] just listened in in silence i think that was the reason that stood out is that usually in these [1:28] situations mps on the prime minister's side or on the side whoever of whoever is giving the statement [1:34] will be more audibly supportive but the thing is from the perspective of labour mps and there were [1:40] some who were supportive in their questions afterwards others of whom were were critics [1:43] whatever your view as a labour mp of all of this it's just sort of unalloyed bad news that is making [1:49] news again it's just you know it's just from their perspective um not not great there was a bit of [1:55] mirth towards the end of the prime minister's statement when he he said for those who think [2:00] all of this is incredible in the kind of literal sense of the word as a not as in whoa yes exactly as [2:05] as in not credible um he basically said i agree uh in terms of the sense from his perspective that he [2:13] feels that he was spectacularly let down by the foreign office in general but in particular uh so [2:20] ollie robbins the now former lead civil servant in that department given the elbow by the prime [2:25] minister and the foreign secretary um last week and then i think from keir starmer's perspective [2:29] overall you know if the best you can hope for is that you think you can assemble the evidence that [2:36] that proves that you didn't lie but you have to admit to ignorance repeating ignorance over and over [2:42] again in his view because he was let down spectacularly by the system that is you know back [2:48] against the wall territory for a couple of hours best part of two and a half hours in the chamber [2:52] and that's pretty uncomfortable if you're keir if you're uh keir starmer you know did it go better or [2:59] worse than he might have imagined difficult to tell i mean it it wasn't spectacularly worse i don't think [3:06] than he might have feared uh but at the same time he'd be going in there with his expectations set [3:12] well into the negative as far as today is concerned and in that sense that's precisely [3:16] kind of what it was interesting that word incredible because i wondered if he meant it in the meaning of [3:21] amazing whoa or incredible as in difficult to believe because the people laughing in the house [3:28] of commons took the latter view yeah or maybe he meant it to mean both things i know many members [3:35] across the house will find these facts to be incredible yeah perhaps he did mean it to be [3:42] both things i think he was seeking to as people will often do when they're making an argument [3:47] he'll he's he was seeking to adopt the instinct of his biggest critic in terms of the particular [3:54] set of facts as he sees them that he was laying down um and the the different interpretations of that [4:02] word probably explained by there was that kind of audible mirth um but i think he was seeking to [4:07] acknowledge that he found this as astonishing to pick an alternative word if you like as as his [4:14] critics did right let's have a listen to some of that statement from keir starmer then newscasters [4:19] can make up their own mind i accept that the sensitive personal information provided by an individual [4:27] being vetted must be protected from disclosure if that were not the case the integrity of the whole [4:35] process would be compromised what i do not accept is that the appointing minister cannot be told [4:44] of the recommendation by uksv indeed given the seriousness of these issues and the significance of [4:53] the appointment i simply do not accept that foreign office officials could not have informed me [4:59] of uksv's recommendations whilst also maintaining the necessary confidentiality that vetting requires [5:07] so chris that was the prime minister basically heaping the blame on foreign office officials i [5:12] noticed he used plural not just foreign office official singular meaning ollie robbins and he then [5:17] listed all the times he feels those unnamed foreign office officials could have told people in downing [5:25] street or the foreign secretary whoever it was at the time and i can do that five times so he said [5:31] they could have told him that manderson had failed his vetting when he was actually appointed so during [5:36] that process from announcing he got the job to him actually getting the job um they say starmer said [5:41] he could have been told when manderson was fired yeah then we got a slightly new one i don't think we'd heard [5:46] before which was the then cabinet secretary so sort of chief civil servant in the country doing a review of the [5:52] whole manderson hiring firing process since been fired by the prime minister yes little um little [5:58] wriggle in that story um wrinkle i should say um yes so that was new and then also the fact that [6:04] when the foreign secretary yvette cooper signed a statement to the the foreign affairs select committee [6:10] which was co-signed with oliver robbins ollie robbins there was another opportunity for them to say [6:14] it there and then when he did a whole review of how vetting works yeah in the light of all of this he [6:20] said that he also could have been told then so that's five five times he says foreign office [6:24] officials could have told him but they didn't yeah and and there was one uh element of it which [6:29] seemed particularly farcical which was when you had sir chris wormhole the then cabinet secretary [6:34] asked to take a look at all of this that even at the point that there is a review to find out [6:39] what might have gone on in the whole vetting process it didn't turn up the biggest fact that was not [6:44] widely known at the time so a review of the system by the system into the system failed to unearth from [6:53] the system the key fact that is now central to this story which is mind-boggling to be honest but then [7:00] if you look back at the foreign office statements about this they're very carefully worded to say that [7:05] the vetting process was conducted and then security clearance was was granted we now learn that those are [7:12] two separate things because the security clearance could be granted even if the vetting process had [7:17] effectively said this person shouldn't be granted it yes they were misleading by a mission rather than [7:22] by by what they said but i was talking to um emily thornberry in fact we played the exchange didn't [7:29] we on newscast at the back end of last week she's the labour mpu chairs the foreign affairs select [7:33] committee and she was showing me that letter that her committee had received from ollie robbins and yvette cooper the [7:39] foreign secretary and the key thing in that letter was not so much that the foreign office failed to [7:46] spell out that um that there'd been a failure in for lord mandelson in part of the vetting it was that [7:53] they managed to do that having been asked explicitly about whether there are any concerns in the vetting [8:01] process and in their answers by a mission they implied that there weren't when it turns out they were [8:09] and crucially that letter was signed by ollie robbins and yvette cooper now yvette cooper makes it clear [8:14] that she didn't know and therefore she's furious because she put her name to something that it turned [8:20] out to be in by a mission wrong and gave a very misleading impression to the foreign affairs select [8:27] committee ollie robbins name was on that letter and we know that he did know now we know as well and [8:34] we'll hear this spelt out by him no doubt on tuesday morning nine o'clock tuesday morning when [8:39] he appears before emily thornbury's committee that he believes he was acting correctly in interpreting [8:46] the law from back in 2010 that says that the whole business of vetting is a responsibility that lies with [8:52] civil servants and they shouldn't be uh sort of spilling the contents of these things to ministers and to [8:58] the prime minister where the prime minister argues there is a distinction is between the the contents [9:04] of that vetting in other words the kind of if you like the gory details or not gory details whatever [9:08] those details are that perhaps shouldn't be shared so the argument goes because they're really personal [9:13] and you can't have a system like that if people think this stuff is going to be sprayed around [9:17] and the conclusion the recommendation uh because the argument from the prime minister is firstly the [9:23] law allows that to happen and secondly kind of what's the point of the process if [9:26] those in power politically can't act on the conclusions because they don't know them [9:32] although the prime minister sort of actually strengthened one of the arguments made by [9:37] ollie robbins's uh acquaintances that about the law not allowing him to share the information the [9:44] prime minister because it looks like the cabinet office officials who got the information eventually [9:50] from the foreign office about the vetting had to get their own legal advice before they could tell [9:55] the prime minister what they turned up which suggests that in white hall there was a real sort of [10:00] omerta around this vetting stuff which and that is the argument that ollie robbins's mates have made this [10:06] weekend yeah and i think what's really interesting about how this has been interpreted is that when the [10:12] guardian published its follow-up story on late friday afternoon i think which was after you and i had [10:19] recorded recorded the friday episode of newscast they revealed that two other senior civil servants had [10:28] also been aware well before the prime minister in other words uh last month the cabinet secretary and the [10:35] permanent secretary at the cabinet office so antonio romeo um and cat little respectively but they were at pains to to ring up any [10:45] journalist who would pick up the phone on friday night because i took a call and when when then [10:49] then when i rang a colleague to pass this on it turns out they'd had a call already they were at pains to point out that in their view in [10:56] downing street's view um the way that um romeo and little had approached this was exactly how it should be [11:06] approached in other words they hadn't sat on it they'd gone through what they regarded in the political circles at the top of government as [11:14] as reasonable procedure and okay that took a while but it was reasonable procedure with a view to [11:20] telling their their if you like political masters as opposed to uh just not telling anyone for a [11:26] extended period of time but then how come it was reasonable for them to do that but it wasn't [11:30] reasonable for ollie robbins to have done that months before i mean i think that's i guess we'll find out [11:36] we'll find out i mean i think the argument that downing street would make it to draw that distinction [11:41] because by the way when the guardian published the story and when others wrote it up there was a [11:44] there was an interpretation given to the to the along the lines of core blimey there was even more folk in [11:49] the civil service who knew and didn't say anything now i think to an extent you know if you're in downing [11:54] street you probably wanted to minimize the extent to which you were beginning a civil war with the entire [11:59] civil service as opposed to with one senior figure because you would understand if you were in the civil [12:05] service that you might be um you know looking upon uh your current government who you are there to [12:12] serve with a you know a tad of a raised eyebrow in the light of what's happened in the last couple of [12:18] days i think from downing street's perspective their argument over the distinction is that as as soon as [12:26] these two other civil servants uh found out about this stuff they started a process that relatively [12:32] quickly led to the prime minister finding out albeit that was part of a process that was likely to [12:37] flush this out into the public domain anyway although there was a bit of an argument about [12:40] whether that was going to happen or not which uh may or may not have contributed to the guardian's [12:44] initial um initial story whereas in the in the case of ollie robbins there were these as you were [12:52] trotting through they these repeated moments as the prime minister sees it where surely in his view the [12:58] system should have turned this information out in in his direction and repeatedly it never did [13:03] and i should just say omerta is the sicilian mafia code of silence did i use that word no i did you [13:10] did right yes is that where is that where it comes from right actually right some people in this office [13:15] were speculating it was latin and therefore it was kind of like james landale territory but no it's [13:19] just just just just just basic italian uh you need to watch the godfather um i knew what it meant i just [13:24] didn't really know no no i'm not doing for your benefit i was doing it for anyone else who's not seen the godfather's benefit [13:28] i'm always up for these explanations i thought i'd said it with i thought i just sort of blurted it [13:31] out like a like a actually i'm not going to say like anything but just said it so anyway where [13:36] we've got to then with this story and let me as i think on my feet think uh we've got a little bit [13:42] more no i meant metaphorically um uh we've got a little bit more information about the timeline [13:50] and what happened when we've got some sort of extra accusations from the prime minister towards the [13:56] foreign office about when they could have told him this information yeah uh he did not get like [14:02] full-throated enthusiastic backing from labor mps as he was grilled by mps from all parties in the [14:08] house of commons today uh but i'm not sure what else we've got other than that no i think that's kind [14:15] of where that's kind of where we are and then this is this is uh half time really this is sort of um [14:21] if you're the prime minister sort of you know oranges and a pep talk he probably doesn't want [14:25] any football analogies after arsenal lost at the weekend but um this is half time because we await [14:30] tuesday morning nine o'clock so ollie robbins in front of the select committee i think we have a we [14:35] have a reasonable sense of the thrust of what his argument is going to be but i think his his tone [14:41] and his tenor as well as his testimony will be key you know to what extent does he well bluntly gun for [14:47] the prime minister here's a guy who is clearly aggrieved who is clearly wounded who's found in [14:52] short order his uh career in the civil service kind of blown up uh over what he believes as we [15:00] understand it to be behaving appropriately uh within the law as he interprets it and obviously downing [15:08] street have a different interpretation of that of that law so yeah how does how does he approach it [15:15] and where does that leave uh the prime minister and i think as we record i know i'm just trying [15:19] to see if i've been sent the information on this i think the conservatives are going to seek just [15:27] been confirmed here we are there will be a three hour debate tomorrow tuesday yes so off the back of [15:32] ollie robbins and the questions he will face relatively early on nine o'clock tomorrow morning for however long [15:38] i'm not sure how they've gone an hour or two i'd have thought um it looks like we'll be back in the [15:43] house of commons sort of unpicking this uh unpicking this further so on it on it rumbles and then of [15:50] course there's pmqs on on wednesday and of course this is all happening because of a previous [15:54] conservative debate which culminated in that humble address which was a technique they used to get all [15:59] the mandelston documents out in the open which is why this story even exists yeah and actually that [16:05] process yeah and speaking to conservatives privately who you know obviously we focus a lot on the [16:09] government at the moment because the government the government is the government and they do the [16:12] governing but the conservatives you know are in a pretty difficult place at the moment politically [16:18] a vanishingly small number of mps by their standards historically a weak place in the opinion polls [16:25] all of those defections and yet actually mood wise they're pretty chipper they face a set of elections [16:30] next month that also like labor look pretty bleak for them but they do take a pride in as they see it [16:37] delivering their duty as his majesty's opposition um effectively in recent months and i think you know [16:43] as you nodded to there there are plenty of strands of evidence they can assemble in making that [16:48] argument they've made the running on a lot of this stuff which has changed things it's it's put the [16:52] government in a really difficult spot and at some point in the coming weeks um there's gonna be this [16:58] next drop of of this next deluge of documents relating to the whole mandelson business and we'll [17:05] you know go around this block all over again chris thank you very much and i look forward to [17:10] catching up with you for more analysis on your birthday thank you now as promised we're going to [17:15] catch up with bbc chief international correspondent lise doucette who has been traveling through iran [17:20] and reporting from there for the last couple of days but this is the first chance we've had to [17:24] catch up with her properly on newscasts so that we've heard little slivers of what she's had to say [17:29] on various episodes in the last couple of days um in terms of what is happening in the conflict [17:34] there is shrouded in mystery potential negotiations in pakistan again uh we just don't know what's [17:42] going on there lots of conflicting reports and then in terms of the strait of hormuz [17:46] the u.s naval blockade has sort of stepped up a gear because on sunday the u.s boarded and seized [17:53] an iranian tanker that was trying to get through the american blockade and iran has reacted quite strongly [18:01] against that which has complicated the whole diplomatic picture so plenty to discuss with [18:05] lisa set who i caught up with earlier on today and before you hear our conversation i should [18:10] just remind you that one of the conditions for her being allowed to report from iran [18:14] put on her by the iranian government is that none of her material is broadcast on the bbc's persian [18:19] service and that is a restriction that applies to all international media organizations operating in [18:24] that country lisa hello good to talk to you adam not beside you a long way away but at least uh [18:32] talking to each other still and so where are you at the moment i'm on a balcony in tehran we're sort [18:41] of in the center north part of the city it's a gray cold day so we've had to retreat [18:48] inside so i don't get my i and my team don't get soaking wet speaking uh with you and it was quite [18:55] a long journey to get there i mean you arrived in tehran a few days ago this is just the first [18:59] chance we've had to catch up with you but actually getting there was was quite an adventure in itself [19:03] yes a marathon the airports uh two of the main airports here in uh the capital tehran have just [19:10] been open for passenger flights but when we came last week uh the airspace was still closed so the [19:15] only way to get in was to cross from a neighboring country so it came from turkey uh it took us about [19:22] 12 hours to reach uh the capital which of course it was good to maybe not that long but at least [19:29] along the way we could see a little bit of the landscape of war to see uh some of the bridges [19:35] which had been destroyed some of those which had been uh still still standing and i have to say adam [19:41] i kept staring at the bridges because president trump keeps making those threats to destroy every [19:49] last bridge in iran so i wanted to see which ones were still standing um and we did also see around [19:55] the main northern city of tabriz uh some of the bases and barracks of the islamic revolutionary guard [20:01] corps which had been flattened uh in those weeks of israeli and american uh air strikes so and the [20:08] beginning of life uh returning uh but with every day here we see life returning uh just a bit by bit [20:17] and can you see much war damage because we're told that actually a lot of the us and israeli [20:22] strikes were very targeted on military targets or irgc targets and so kind of local neighborhoods [20:30] weren't really affected what what's your take from from having now seen it with your own eyes [20:34] no the when remember adam we used to have these conversations and in london and i and our [20:41] colleagues would talk about how uh the missiles were slamming into crowded residential areas and [20:47] that meant that civilian homes and people were getting hit people were being killed and i went to [20:53] one of those leafy neighborhoods tehran i have to say is a very beautiful uh city lots of trees [21:00] uh lots of gardens iranians have this great sense of of style of course this is i'm in the sort of [21:06] center north which is the relatively more affluent parts of of the city but we went to like a narrow [21:13] street in one of the leafy residential neighborhoods and right in the middle uh of the the street there [21:19] was a huge gaping hole all was left was mounds of of rubble and it was interesting it almost became [21:25] a sight people were walking to see it even though it was many days since it had actually been hit [21:30] coming to have a look and when you looked at the other side of the streets the facades of all the [21:36] homes and uh buildings had been blown off and we happened to meet a man who was just going into [21:44] his place who was lying in ruin and he sort of mockingly said president trump said he would [21:50] send us help he goes is this the gift to the people of iran there's a lot of bitterness and and [21:56] anger as to why the war uh meant this we also visited the bridge that president trump had boasted about [22:03] when he said the biggest bridge in iran has come tumbling down and it was a real engineering feat the [22:09] tallest widest longest bridge about a month before it was to be completed and uh two israeli two two [22:18] american airstrikes a few hours apart multiple missiles slammed into the bridge slicing it into [22:25] three and it also provoked a lot of anger here that this wasn't a military target they saw it as civilian [22:32] infrastructure and for for many iranians it was an attack on their country's future so in short no it [22:39] wasn't just military targets that were hit it wasn't just that uh senior leaders were assassinated [22:45] all that happened too but not just that and at least you alluded to some of the conversations [22:50] you've had with with iranian people i just wonder what's the sort of range of opinions you're hearing [22:55] and just how how many people are coming to talk to you and do they feel that they're able to talk to [23:01] you it's always a mix when we have a television camera it's more difficult people don't want to [23:07] talk they're nervous about speaking especially about political topics but if we're just chatting or if i [23:13] say well it's just going to be for radio uh people are very uh open with with with their with their [23:19] views and in fact people again this friendliness of of the iranian people their deep hospitality that [23:26] even despite the hardship of this times they they don't lose the people in fact the place that i [23:32] mentioned where we were visiting a site of an attack where there was one man who was really uh didn't [23:38] want us to be there he was trying to get us to leave another woman came out with trays of tea and [23:43] sweets and come to my house and have have tea with me and people do come up to us and then we say can we [23:49] can we ask you questions and and they do and and not surprisingly i mean you cover politics in britain [23:54] adam here as well iran is no different you you get a whole range of views but and sometimes you're [24:02] surprised you went for example to a fruit and vegetable market where people talk to us about how the price is [24:07] there high before the war even higher now i was reading a report today that inflation now 60 in [24:15] february when we were here 72 percent uh now i mean how can any of us live in that kind of and yet when [24:23] we we spoke to the band who was behind the till and he said yes you know things have been difficult [24:28] business is not so good uh prices are now higher and then i said well you must really want a deal to [24:36] be done with the united states so that sanctions can be lifted he goes no i don't want to deal i [24:41] don't want to deal because i think we should punish uh the u.s aggressors and then you'll also hear from [24:47] other people no i don't want to deal but for completely different reasons they don't want to deal [24:52] because they want to remove this regime and they don't want something which will keep them in power [24:57] and speaking of which in terms of the news today um do you have any idea if we're going to see some [25:02] more negotiations in pakistan because it sounds like oh jd vance the vice president is on his way [25:08] to pakistan but then it also sounds like he might not be and it sounds like the iranians aren't going [25:13] either so it's very very unclear what what if anything might happen yes there was these conflicting [25:17] posts president trump told the new york post that jd vance and his other envoys were in a plane they [25:22] were going to land in islamabad in a few hours and then we were trying to all figure out when when the [25:28] talks would start and then there comes another report from white house officials saying no they [25:32] haven't actually left uh they may leave tuesday i mean because it really makes you wonder why would [25:37] they leave until until they have uh firm confirmation that there's going to be someone to talk to that [25:44] the iranians are going to go now the last the last indication we had from the iranians and now it is [25:52] just past quarter past seven in the evening here i can see the lights in the city coming on adam as [25:58] we're as we're speaking the foreign ministry spokesperson used this phrase so far so far we have no plans [26:07] to go to islamabad and so far we haven't made a decision iran is in a really tight spot even before [26:14] this incident in the strait of hormuz and we may talk about that how the first time an iranian vessel [26:20] was was uh stopped fired upon boarded and seized by the u.s navy iran had already been indicating that [26:29] because of the u.s naval blockade it wasn't ready to go to islamabad for talks now it has this [26:35] what it's called an active piracy and it also has reservations about this process it doesn't feel [26:41] that they're in the right place yet uh in order to have the kind of give and take to try to start [26:47] closing the gaps in the negotiations but they're under pressure from the pakistanis and if the [26:52] u.s vice president jd vance and his team get on a plane iran doesn't want to be seen to be the ones [26:58] blamed for the talks not happening so they're in an invidious position it has to say so we'll have to [27:05] wait and see you may remember that the last time there were these historic uh high level uh face-to-face [27:11] talks uh iranians also waited until the 11th hour then it was that they were demanding that the [27:17] ceasefire should also include lebanon and they eventually got that so i think they're also [27:22] holding out again hoping that the u.s will lift that naval blockade if they do that's quite a big [27:27] concession from president trump it'll show that he really does want uh the talks to go ahead [27:33] and it's so interesting talking to you about the strait of hormuz at least where you are in tehran [27:37] because when you then look on the map it's a reminder of what a huge country iran is because [27:42] the strait of hormuz is a really long way away from where you are let alone a long way away from [27:46] where i am yes we in fact we had said to the media agency that we work with well how about going to [27:52] bandarabas and you could feel the uh from the other end of the on the whatsapp thing well do you [27:57] realize how long how long it will take us to drive to bandarabas we're right up in the north we go all [28:03] the way down uh to to the south yes people forget i mean this is a country more than 90 [28:09] million people it's four times the size of iraq and people had to bear that in mind when they talked [28:14] about a u.s land invasion remember those days uh during the war so yeah it's a it is a it is a long [28:21] long way away but the the strait of hormuz is on a lot of people's minds including where you are in [28:27] in britain and just in terms of how you're allowed to be there because i know the iranian [28:32] government are not keen on on western journalists being there so how did how did you wangle your way [28:38] in if i could put it so crudely i will i don't think i would put it that way adam i don't think [28:42] they are not keen on having western journalists here they are restricting the numbers um and they've [28:49] always decided who they want which networks they want to get visas to um and which ones they don't [28:56] and they say to us and there is some evidence to support this that they have to be careful because it [29:02] is a sensitive situation and we find and not just us when other uh broadcasters particularly from [29:08] the united states go into those really packed crowds of very defiant government supporters and they [29:16] see western media and these are the crowds who shout death to america and death to israel and they [29:21] see the western media as hostile it can sometimes get really difficult and it's such a contrast because [29:27] as i mentioned most of the times there's such a warm welcome uh from from iranians so they obviously [29:34] don't want any incidents and when you when we work when we go through the streets when we were filming or [29:41] we sometimes attract attention and this is a place it has always been a place where there are security [29:47] forces everywhere some in uniform and some plain clothes and we can really feel that security has been [29:54] tightened there are more security forces on the streets we get stopped more when we show that [29:59] we have our permissions we have an accreditation letter uh and sometimes telephone calls have to be [30:05] made then we can get on with our work so it's not easy to work here but it is definitely possible [30:12] uh to work here and for those who say what are you doing uh going to iran you shouldn't be there [30:18] every time we are here i think it affirms for for us for our team i'm here with charlotte scar the [30:24] producer nikki millard our camera person who's been to iran many times over the years is that it does [30:31] good old-fashioned journalism being on the being on the ground talking to people face to face trying [30:37] to get a sense of the the mood of the place trying to speak of course to officials as well you come [30:42] away with a much better sense of what is after all adam we you and i in london kept talking about this [30:48] story because it matters here to iran it matters to the region and it matters all the way to to london [30:53] as well at least my main takeaway apart from it's nice to catch up with you and you painted such a [30:59] vivid picture of what it's like to be in iran it's just that anyone who thinks oh just a little bit [31:04] more pressure and people will come flooding out onto the streets and overthrow the regime that's [31:10] been in charge for for decades and decades and decades all it takes is just kind of one more push [31:15] to help them that's just that's just not the case even remotely well bear in mind that president [31:21] trump who had started that war on february the 28th with that eight minute video in which he said [31:27] when we finish the bombing people should come out and the government is is yours to take hinting of [31:33] course that his this military operation was about changing the regime and now he said again in his [31:39] social media post today that he had already achieved achieved regime change because uh israeli [31:45] american strikes had assassinated top people in the security and political echelons they've just [31:51] basically moved the pieces around the structure is still in place it is not a question of individuals [31:57] this is a multi-layered system security religious political honed and hardened over 47 years since the [32:05] islamic republic president trump likes to talk about oh i found the right people to deal with this is not [32:11] the kind of system it's not like venezuela where you take out the president and suddenly you have a whole [32:16] administration and a new president that can you can you can work with iran is not like uh that so it is [32:23] in in fact iranians who had had been hoping for for president trump's help hoping that the beginning [32:29] of the war would mean the beginning end of the regime what they have instead is a is a regime which [32:34] is more hard line more militarized and in some ways stronger than it was before the war i mean again [32:40] there have been losses here and there's going to be an even deeper economic crisis you can already see [32:46] the signs of it with talks of job losses and decline in economic activity people's discontent [32:52] is going to deepen but right now because of that extra surveillance on the street because iranians [32:59] have lived through that lethal crackdown in january which caused thousands possibly tens of thousands of [33:06] lives at some point you know every few years there is this right there is this surge of people into the [33:13] streets some calling for economic change some calling for political change and it will it will [33:18] it will happen again but uh right now iran is just living in this fragile ceasefire and not a single [33:24] person whether they're working for the government or supporting the government or against the government [33:29] no one here thinks that the ceasefire will hold at least when are you coming back to base [33:34] well we've just been told we can stay a few few extra few extra days here so we might talk again [33:41] across uh across the miles uh adam uh from between tehran and your studio um in london but i look [33:49] forward to joining you there not this week maybe next week i'm just so torn because yeah i mean i'm so [33:53] torn because it'd be lovely to have you back here but equally it's so good that we've got you there on [33:58] the ground because the thing that was missing during the the height of the bombing and the war was [34:04] actually what it's like on the other side so that's why that's why i'm trying to balance up there anyway [34:08] lise thank you very much good good luck adam good luck with the reporting of all the big stories in [34:15] in the uk too thank you