Is Israel's interception of the Global Sumud Flotilla legal? — Inside Story

[0:01] Israeli forces detained two activists after stopping the Gaza-bound Samud flotilla off the coast of Greece. [0:08] It happened in international waters nearly 1,000 kilometres from the Strip. [0:12] So was this action legal? [0:14] This is Inside Story. [0:32] Hello, welcome to the program. I'm Tom McRae. [0:34] A fleet of boats with activists headed for Gaza has been stopped by Israeli naval forces, [0:40] this time much further away than before. [0:43] 1,000 kilometres from Gaza, in fact. [0:45] Marine commandos boarded the Samud global flotilla in international waters off the coast of the Greek island of Crete. [0:53] Spain says the interception is illegal, describing the detention of two activists taken to Israel as an abduction. [1:00] The Israeli foreign ministry says the 22 boats had no prospect of reaching Gaza [1:04] and that supplies can go through only approved routes. [1:08] The flotilla's supporters say it's a vital demonstration of solidarity with the people of Gaza. [1:13] Critics in Israel and elsewhere, however, say it's a provocation and a publicity stunt, [1:19] accusing it of links to Hamas, which are strongly denied. [1:22] So how did this interception happen in European and international waters? [1:27] And is Israel's action legal? [1:29] We'll speak to our guests shortly. [1:30] But first, this report from Amar Boateng. [1:33] On hunger strike in Israel, in defence of their mission, [1:39] Saif Abu-Keshek and Tiago Avila remain in detention [1:43] after being seized by Israeli forces on Wednesday night off the coast of Greece. [1:49] They were taking part in the global Samud flotilla, [1:52] a coalition of more than 170 international activists on more than 50 boats. [1:57] They set sail from Spain on April 12, aiming to deliver humanitarian aid to Gaza [2:03] and to break Israel's blockade of the Strip. [2:07] On the night of April 29, Israeli forces intercepted several boats [2:11] off the coast of the island of Crete. [2:13] The Israeli navy transferred the activists onto Greek boats [2:16] and they were disembarked on the island, more than 1,000 kilometres from Gaza. [2:21] That's in contrast to last October, [2:23] when activists taking part in that global Samud flotilla mission [2:26] were able to go further. [2:29] According to the group, several boats were able to reach near the coast of Gaza [2:32] before being intercepted by Israeli forces. [2:36] Attempts to breach the law for maritime security blockade of the Gaza Strip. [2:40] The Israeli foreign ministry said the earlier action this time [2:43] was due to the large number of vessels taking part. [2:47] Israel accuses the men of being affiliated with the Popular Conference for Palestinians Abroad, [2:52] a group designated by Israel and the U.S. as a terrorist organization. [2:56] Activists from the global Samud flotilla say the allegations are politically motivated. [3:03] A lawyer for the two men says they've been mistreated. [3:05] It's important in the beginning to note that both of them were subjected to torture and violence [3:13] since the moment they were abducted by the Israeli navy. [3:16] They were kept handcuffed and blindfolded. [3:20] Spain's prime minister has condemned the Israeli government. [3:23] We have seen that the Israeli authorities of Netanyahu's government have kidnapped several [3:29] citizens who are on the flotilla heading towards Palestine to deliver humanitarian aid [3:34] and continue reminding the world that there are people suffering in Gaza, in the West Bank [3:39] and throughout Palestine. [3:41] Now that Netanyahu has done this, kidnapping foreign citizens, one of them Spanish, and taking [3:45] them to Israel, I have several things to say to Prime Minister Netanyahu. [3:49] The first is that Spain always will protect its citizens. [3:53] Second, we will always uphold international law. [3:56] And this is yet another violation of international law. [3:59] Italy's prime minister has a different view. [4:02] Georgia Maloney says the global Samud flotilla's actions are not meaningful. [4:05] As for my opinion on the flotilla, I haven't changed my mind much. [4:12] I still don't see the usefulness of these initiatives that don't benefit the people of Gaza and instead [4:18] give us many more problems to solve, as if we didn't already have enough. [4:23] There have been protests in several countries demanding the release of the activists. [4:28] Their lawyers and organisers of the flotilla say that Israeli actions are a serious violation [4:32] of international law, and that it's part of a pattern of sustained attack on Palestinian [4:38] life and those who act in solidarity with it. [4:42] Amma Boateng, Al Jazeera, for Inside Story. [4:44] Well, let's bring in our guests now. [4:50] In the Canadian city of St. John's is Heidi Matthews, assistant professor at Osgoode Hall [4:55] Law School at York University in Toronto. [4:59] She provided legal support on board the global Samud flotilla during their mission last year. [5:04] In Tel Aviv, Dan Perry, the former editor of the Associated Press for Europe, the Middle [5:08] East and Africa. [5:10] He is also the publisher of Ask Questions Later on Substack. [5:14] And in Brussels, Lynne Boylan, a member of the European Parliament for Dublin and chair [5:19] of the European Parliament delegation for relations with Palestine. [5:23] Thank you so much for being with us. [5:24] We really do appreciate your time here on Inside Story. [5:27] Heidi, if I could begin with you. [5:29] Unlike previously, Israel intercepted this flotilla a thousand kilometres away from Gaza [5:35] and in international waters near Crete, as we saw. [5:39] Can you just talk us through what happened and why you think Israel changed its strategy [5:43] this time? [5:47] Yeah, it's a great question. [5:50] Notably, what's different this time around is that Israel did take custody of some 180 [5:56] volunteer participants on the flotilla, in addition to the two that have now been taken to Israel [6:03] and may or may not be subjected eventually to criminal charges. [6:07] Those 180 other participants were let off in Greece, although there are very serious allegations [6:15] of physical and other sorts of mistreatment sort of en route to Greece. [6:19] But the thing that looks really different is that Israel is now no longer interested in detaining [6:25] for around two to six days dozens of volunteers, which it did do in October of last year with [6:32] the last wave of the Global Sumid flotilla. [6:36] We can speculate about why that might be the case. [6:38] There are serious reasons to believe that actual charges, criminal charges, might be brought [6:44] domestically with respect to the two organisers. [6:46] Clearly, the attempt now is to indict the organisation as a whole to echo some of the sentiments that [6:53] Prime Minister Maluni was quoted as saying just now around the sort of, you know, allegedly [7:00] criminal nature of the flotilla and its organisers itself, rather than the many dozens of participants [7:06] who had previously been subjected to attack. [7:09] Dan, for its part, Israel is calling this a PR stunt and a provocation and saying that it [7:15] conducted a peaceful, lawful operation from Israel's point of view. [7:19] How do you read what is happening there? [7:21] Is this significant at all? [7:23] And how is it being portrayed there? [7:27] I have to tell you, this is not big news in Israel. [7:29] It barely made any headlines. [7:32] The Israeli public views this generally as a PR stunt and a provocation. [7:37] Just as you said, it hasn't taken that seriously, again, among the public as a major criminal action. [7:45] It's simply viewed as part of the blizzard of politicking and propaganda that has arisen around everything to do with Israel and Gaza. [7:55] Why the government has chosen to be more litigious in this case, or so it would appear, just as your other guest said, I, too, can only speculate because they haven't explained themselves. [8:09] In the past, of course, for example, in October, the Greta Thunberg show, they brought her to Ashtod, she made a whole big thing of being kidnapped, they let her go, they gave her a sandwich, and the aid, I believe, that wasn't a flutella, to the extent that that existed, was indeed sent to Gaza, I think. [8:27] I can't follow it, but that's the claim. [8:30] Is this a better way to be, does it matter that much if Saif is a member of a group affiliated with Hamas, are they going to get intelligence out of him, I really cannot say. [8:44] I would note that this particular Israeli government has seemed especially ham-fisted about its own, the damage it causes itself reputationally. [8:56] And it's not surprising to me that they're, by no means, trying to explain themselves and essentially handing a PR victory to their critics. [9:06] That's where it appears to stand right now. [9:08] Whether it might turn out that the two detainees are master terrorists, I cannot say. [9:13] Okay, Lyn, I know that you've been outspoken about this. [9:17] What was your reaction when you saw the way that the Israeli authorities have handled this? [9:22] And what does it really say about the relationship between Israel and European leaders, as we heard from Maloney, saying that this is just adding to more problems that need to be solved? [9:36] Well, I suppose the first thing to say is that the activists shouldn't have to get on a boat. [9:41] They shouldn't have to put their lives in danger if the European institutions and the international world were actually doing their job and holding Israel to account for the illegal blockade of Gaza. [9:51] So people have only put their lives at risk on these boats because they feel so frustrated and heartbroken at the failure of governments across the world to hold Israel to account. [10:03] I think what we've seen with the much more heavy-handed approach by Israel is probably one sense of frustration by Israel that the activists aren't going away, [10:13] that the drive and the support that the international community has for Palestine is not diminishing and that they're seeing that as a distraction now with the flotilla when they obviously have all of these other fronts open in Lebanon, Iran and still carrying out attacks on Gaza and the illegal settlements. [10:32] So I think they've taken a heavy-handed approach to try and deter another flotilla from going ahead. [10:40] But I would make the point that if politicians like myself were doing their jobs, people shouldn't be getting on the boats and having to bring aid because that blockade should have been lifted a long time ago. [10:50] Well, let's take a closer look at who the two activists are that have been detained by Israeli forces. [10:57] Now, the Global Samud Flotilla Organisers say Thiago Avila is a socio-environmentalist from Brazil who has dedicated himself to solidarity with Palestine for more than 20 years. [11:09] The group says he was part of a mission in June last year that was also intercepted by Israeli forces. [11:16] And Organisers say Saif Abu Keshek is a dual Spanish and Swedish national. [11:20] He's a Palestinian activist who the coalition says has been organising Palestinian solidarity rallies across Europe for more than 20 years. [11:29] Before joining this year's flotilla, he was the lead organiser of the Global March to Gaza. [11:35] Heidi, if I can come to you now, on what basis do you think that these two men in particular have been singled out? [11:41] And exactly what have they been accused of and what do you believe their fate to be? [11:45] So, again, it's my understanding from the latest legal updates from lawyers working with Adala, the NGO that is supporting and has historically supported participants in the flotilla, [11:59] that actually, as yet, there are no formal charges, although there is discussion of various, quote-unquote, terrorism-related domestic charges for these two individuals. [12:08] But as yet, they remain uncharged. [12:10] In a way, I mean, I think this approach, looking at these two individuals in particular, as opposed to detaining the many dozens and likely hundreds of participants in the flotilla, [12:24] because the flotilla continues to sail. [12:26] So, as we're speaking, ships are continuing to prepare to sail from various European ports, from Turkish ports as well. [12:33] And so the flotilla isn't over, right? [12:35] These two leaders have been taken into detention and may be charged in a much wider context. [12:42] And so I think focusing on demonizing these two organizers, in a way, lets Israel off the hook of having to actually deal, again, [12:50] with the hundreds of participants who were volunteering from all walks of life in order to do what Lynn has adequately or excellently described as attempting to break what is an unlawful blockade. [13:02] And when we say an unlawful blockade, what we mean is this is a blockade that has the effect of disproportionately negatively affecting the civilian population, [13:13] namely by being a key tool in the arsenal of Israeli leaders' starvation campaign. [13:19] And let me remind listeners that Prime Minister Netanyahu and former Defence Minister Yohif Galant remain charged by the International Criminal Court for a host of war crimes and crimes against humanity, [13:31] including the deliberate use of starvation. [13:33] And the blockade is a key part of that process. [13:37] And so Israel doesn't have to contend now with the governments, dozens of governments, representing participants, [13:43] if it had taken them into custody along with these two organizers. [13:47] So this is clearly an attempt to demonize the organization as a whole, [13:51] at the same time as an attempt to not have to deal with all the consular staff, governments, et cetera, [13:59] of the volunteers on board the boats, which, as I said, are continuing to prepare to leave and leaving as I speak. [14:05] Dan, you said that the Israeli government has dealt with this in a ham-fisted way. [14:11] Does it care or is it worried about its relationship with Europe, seeing that these two men are European nationals? [14:21] I think it does. [14:22] And I also think it doesn't as much as it should. [14:25] I think in Israel there is an exaggerated sense that Europe is lost, which is false. [14:32] Europe is Israel's primary trading partner. [14:35] Europe is critical for Israel. [14:36] Israel remains an associate member, in a way, of the European Union. [14:42] Israel faces a complex situation, and I fear that what we're hearing from my two esteemed fellow guests is a highly simplistic narrative. [14:51] That, too, is part of the equation. [14:53] What are they supposed to do? [14:54] They are blockading Gaza. [14:55] This is seen by some as illegal, but was seen by the Palmer Report in 2011 as legal. [15:00] It is not so clear what any of us would do if we were in charge of dealing with that situation. [15:06] Hamas is an organization dedicated, A, to Israel's destruction, and B, to running a jihadist theocracy of sorts in Gaza. [15:15] If Lynn Boylan and others were truly concerned about the welfare of the Palestinian people, they'd be working to implement the plan presented by the U.S. last fall that was supported by everyone, including the Arab League that is aimed at dislodging Hamas from Gaza. [15:36] Because, for God's sake, you have to be spectacularly ignorant of history to not know that the blockade was, A, imposed because Hamas took over Gaza, intending to use it as a platform to bombard Israel and attack Israel. [15:50] And, B, that the same blockade is only a true blockade because Egypt completes the encirclement of Gaza. [15:58] And, I almost never hear these critics talking about Egypt, and yet there would be no blockade if that land bridge to Egypt was not itself blocked by Egypt. [16:09] Why, why is everyone blockading Gaza? [16:12] Why do people not want materiel to go into Gaza? [16:15] It's not to starve the population, no matter what some idiot Israeli minister at some point said about pressuring Hamas in that way. [16:24] They want to starve the population. [16:26] They want to smoke out Hamas. [16:28] That is the essence, and anyone who favours the Palestinians but misses that essence is doing the Palestinians no favours at all. [16:36] Lynne, I can see that you're desperate to jump in here. [16:38] I want to give you a right to respond to what Dan just said. [16:40] Well, I think first and foremost, you cannot defend the collective punishment of the Palestinian people. [16:47] That's, you know, that is against international law, and that is what Israel is doing in Gaza. [16:51] There is no Hamas in the West Bank, and they're there with the brutal, violent, illegal settlers who are aided and embedded by the Israeli, [16:58] the defense forces. [17:00] So Israel is committing numerous international crimes and has not been held to account, and that is why it feels so emboldened to continue to just run roughshod across international law. [17:15] And as regards the peace plan, I mean, Donald Trump is trying to undermine the UN. [17:20] He's trying to undermine the International Court of Justice, the International Criminal Court, by setting up this Board of Peace, which doesn't have Palestinian involvement in it. [17:29] And as a member of the European Parliament, I'm not going to defend the setting up of a sort of a parallel system when we have a very system that, yes, needs reform, [17:41] but that actually is the one that we should be using, which is the UN, and that the Palestinians have to be front and centre of any future plans for Gaza. [17:50] So, I mean, you cannot allow Israel to just be a flagrant deny that international law exists. [17:58] It is a trading partner with the EU. The EU needs to hold Israel to account. [18:03] They have already accepted that Israel is in breach of Article 2 of the trading agreement with the EU, and yet they have failed to act. [18:11] And on Wednesday, the Trade Committee of the European Parliament will meet to discuss whether or not to suspend the trading agreement with Israel. [18:20] And I will be making the case very strongly that at this point, Israel has shown it has no interest in upholding the human rights of Palestinians, [18:28] and therefore the trade agreement must be suspended. [18:32] Heidi, we heard Dan reiterate that Israel is accusing the flotilla organisers of links to Hamas. [18:38] Is there any substance to that claim at all, or is it a legal and political strategy to try and justify the interception of the flotilla, [18:47] but also the ongoing blockade of Gaza as well? [18:50] Look, I am not a lawyer representing these two individuals, but to my knowledge, there's no credible evidence of any kind of links to Hamas or other terrorist organisations on the part of these organisers or indeed anybody participating in the flotilla. [19:08] By virtue of my own participation as an independent legal observer alongside the flotilla last fall, [19:15] you know, I ended up personally being smeared for materially supporting Hamas and terrorism as well. [19:21] And so we know what the purpose of these allegations are, whether they end up holding weight in court, [19:26] whether they end up actually even leading to any actual charges. [19:30] the point of these allegations and these rumours is to smear and shut down activists in their work to shut down academics like myself in their legal analysis. [19:42] And as Lynne has done, the essential thing to remind ourselves of, from my perspective, as an international lawyer and legal academic is to say that even in some alternate universe, [19:51] right, you know, let's imagine the blockade is lawful, let's, you know, take seriously a report that was written in 2011 that your other esteemed guest mentioned. [20:00] We're now in 2026, in the middle of genocide, even if the blockade were lawful, civilians can never be the object of direct attack. [20:09] That's a basic principle of international law. Attacks cannot involve unnecessary and superfluous injury and suffering. [20:17] And certainly, per the Rome statute, it's a war crime to intentionally attack a humanitarian mission. [20:25] Those are what, those crimes are revealed by the facts in this case, as opposed to spurious allegations of relation to terrorism, [20:35] which, as I've said, is designed to smear these particular activists and indeed anybody who works alongside them. [20:44] Dan, we know that the US has thrown its support behind Israel, not just throughout this war, but in regards to intercepting the flotilla as well. [20:54] Is America and Donald Trump providing political cover and is the Israeli government using that to take actions like this against the flotilla? [21:03] I think Israel obviously feels it has the backing of the American government. [21:10] I have much criticism of both the Israeli government and the American government on a whole host of international issues. [21:18] But I have trouble coming up with a better recommendation than the blockade, which my fellow panelists here seem to think is so illegal and such an attack, by definition, on a Palestinian people. [21:28] And I would just ask anyone who really wants to go public with such a position, what on earth would you do instead, if you were the Israeli Prime Minister? [21:36] And let's suppose not a Prime Minister as problematic and difficult and objectionable as Netanyahu, but a normative Israeli Prime Minister. [21:43] What on earth would you do with Hamas being and charging Gaza still? [21:46] Would you block it or not? My suspicion is you would. [21:49] And then you would face spurious charges of attacks on a Palestinian people with words like international law thrown around with reckless abandon. [21:56] I don't think that's fair. And throughout my career, I've tried to be fair. [22:01] I'm not representing a side here, but I'm telling everyone that this is a weird and difficult situation with Hamas in Gaza, [22:08] that it's been there for 20 years, which has included 2011, by the way. Nothing has changed since then. [22:13] It is an affront to justice and a crime upon the Palestinian people, and it puts Israel and Egypt in an extremely difficult situation. [22:21] And I do not think that enforcing this blockade, when you say from the beginning that whatever aid is brought in on these flotillas, [22:27] which are clearly a method of harassing Israel, will be sent to Gaza. [22:31] How is that an attack on the Palestinian people? By repeating such calumny, I don't think you're doing anyone any favours. [22:36] And as a journalist, I have to check. [22:38] Okay, Lyn, if we can bring you back and talk a little bit further about what the EU can do at this point in time. [22:44] What concrete leverage or actions do European governments actually have at their disposal right now beyond just strongly worded statements? [22:53] Because I know that you have called repeatedly for a call to action. So what sort of actions are you talking about? [22:59] The EU has an enormous amount of leverage, probably second only to the US in terms of the leverage it has with the Israeli state. [23:07] So in terms of being a huge trading partner at an EU level, so the EU Israel Association Agreement, which, as I've already said, [23:15] the EU has accepted that Israel is in breach of Article two of that trade agreement. [23:19] Secondly, they are also supplying numerous member states are supplying the arms that are carrying out the genocide on the people of Gaza. [23:28] So they could have a two way arms embargo. And but number one is around the suspension of the EU Israel Association Agreement, [23:36] because they have accepted that Israel is in breach of it. And we only seen last week. [23:41] And this is as was when the EU says we prefer to have negotiations, we prefer to have dialogue with Israel. [23:46] When it came to the illegal grain grain coming from Ukraine on a Russian ship that was due to dock in Israel, [23:54] when the EU threatened sanctions, Israel refused that ship to dock. [23:59] So it shows that when the EU actually speaks with purpose, when it actually threatens to use its leverage, Israel listens. [24:06] But to date, unfortunately, wheat appears to have more value than Palestinian lives when it comes to the European institutions. [24:14] So the one thing they can do is suspend the trade. [24:17] The second thing at a member state level is have that two way arms embargo. [24:21] And then I suppose just in general, we would call for civil society to continue with the boycott divest system. [24:28] Heidi, the other issue here is accountability. [24:31] If we run through a number of these issues, treatment of detainees, boarding vessels in international waters, disabling boats. [24:37] Who realistically, if anyone, do you think is going to be held accountable or face any sort of consequence here? [24:43] Look, these attacks, interceptions and the violence that we know has taken place. [24:53] We know that through various testimonies of participants, including the two that have been detained by Israel. [24:58] Israel obviously bears responsibility for that violence. [25:03] Investigations are open at the ICC with respect to the overall situation in the state of Palestine. [25:11] And bringing this allegedly criminal behaviour within the scope of the ICC is absolutely on the table, should the prosecutor wish to do so. [25:21] And it's open to civil society certainly to press the prosecutor to extend his work to the work of the flotillas. [25:29] There are also avenues for states, some of which are legal and some of which are political, and then has gone through some of the political avenues as well. [25:36] Dan, Israel's intercepted a number of flotillas now, detained hundreds of foreign nationals, faced international condemnation. [25:44] You posed this question earlier. [25:49] What, if anything, should it be doing differently? [25:52] No, I think Israel needs to revise its entire approach to the conflict with the Palestinians. [26:01] And that applies mainly to the West Bank. [26:03] But in the case of Gaza, as I suggested before, I don't think it has much of a choice but to insist on the blockade and on the removal of Hamas. [26:12] And, by the way, it isn't true that the US-led plan and the otherwise seemingly farcical Board of Peace is preventing the Palestinians from having a representation in this process. [26:28] The interim government that is essentially an extension of the Palestinian Authority, which is the legal authority in Gaza and not Hamas, they are represented. [26:36] And they were at that showy press conference that was held, I believe it was, four or five months ago. [26:42] There is a genuine effort to find a way, to finesse a way, to disarm Hamas and remove them from Gaza, establishing a pathway to an interim Palestinian government [26:55] that hopefully with the future, moderate and reasonable Israeli government can engage in good faith talks on achieving a partition of Palestine. [27:03] That is the goal. The current government of Israel is going to stand in the way of that. [27:07] And I don't expect them to do anything particularly good. [27:10] But the blockade, as such, is very far from their biggest malfeasance. [27:16] Well, despite that Board of Peace and the ceasefire in place in Gaza, we're still seeing Palestinians being killed on a weekly basis. [27:24] And many, many people continue to go hungry. [27:27] Thank you so much. We'll have to leave it there. We've run out of time. [27:30] Dan Perry, Heidi Matthews and Lynne Boylan, thanks for joining us. [27:34] Thank you, too, for watching. You can see the program again anytime by visiting our website. [27:38] That is aljazeera.com. For further discussion, you can go to our Facebook page. [27:42] That's facebook.com forward slash AJ Inside Story. [27:46] You can also join the conversation on X. Our handle is at AJ Inside Story. [27:52] For now, that's it from me and the whole team here. [27:55] Al Jazeera's coverage continues in just a moment. Do stay tuned. [27:58] Do stay tuned.