Inside Putin’s Russia: ‘We’re cut off from the outside world’ — BBC News

[0:00] Good morning, this is Peskov. Do you hear me? [0:03] Good morning. [0:04] BBC News. [0:05] Foreign agent 1163. [0:11] This is the country that once it starts repression, [0:13] it's very difficult to end. [0:15] Aren't you frightened? Aren't you scared? [0:19] I'm very. I'm shaking. [0:22] Russia has achieved full, [0:25] digital sovereignty. [0:27] Any Google search, that doesn't work. [0:30] The idea is to divide Russia from the outside world. [0:34] We are losing the future. [0:36] Our bright future is our dark past. [0:38] You know, for so many years, [0:56] Russians were encouraged to believe in what they call here [0:59] the bright future. [1:03] Now, that bright future never seemed to materialise, [1:06] but the hope that someday it would, [1:10] the belief in progress, [1:12] the belief in a future that would be better and brighter, [1:15] that hope was real. [1:22] Today, though, with no end in sight to Russia's war on Ukraine, [1:27] and at a time of sanctions and economic problems, [1:31] I rarely hear Russians now talking about the bright future. [1:35] In fact, with what's happening right now in the country, [1:41] in terms of more and more prohibitions [1:44] and more restrictions and growing repression, [1:47] it feels like, instead of looking to the future, [1:51] Russia is staring into the past. [1:54] This list just gets longer and longer. [2:07] These are Russian citizens and organisations [2:11] who've been labelled foreign agent by the authorities. [2:15] This label, in the main, [2:17] is used here to punish critics of the Kremlin. [2:20] Foreign agents have limited rights. [2:22] For example, they're banned from teaching, [2:24] from taking part in elections. [2:26] If they sell their flats, they can't access the assets. [2:30] But this is also designed to stigmatise, [2:32] to create the sense in society of the enemy within. [2:35] And in that sense, it's reminiscent of the communist past, [2:39] when some citizens were denounced as [2:41] traitor to the motherland or enemy of the people. [2:44] Now, here's a familiar name, someone I know. [2:48] Foreign agent 1163, Nina Khrushcheva. [2:53] I think at the beginning of the war, [2:55] there was about 300 foreign agents [2:57] and now they've grown this incredible amount. [3:00] You know, the country went on the repressive road [3:04] and this is the country that, once it starts repression, [3:07] it's very difficult to end. [3:09] All of this is basically outsourced to the Syloviki, [3:13] to the power forces, [3:15] and the more power you give them, the more power they take. [3:18] In recent years, Russians have got used to being connected [3:25] to the outside world. [3:27] But in another sign of a return to the past, [3:31] the authorities are trying to break that connection. [3:34] So, for example, global messaging apps [3:36] like WhatsApp and Telegram are being blocked. [3:39] And people here are being strongly encouraged [3:42] to switch to the new state-approved, [3:44] state-backed messenger, which is called Max. [3:47] Here it is, this is what it looks like. [3:49] Many Russians are deeply suspicious of it, [3:52] fearing surveillance. [3:54] But also, in many parts of Russia right now, [3:58] there are restrictions on mobile internet. [4:00] Only certain government-approved sites are accessible. [4:03] It's part of a push to create what the authorities are calling [4:06] a safe, sovereign internet for a sovereign Russia. [4:10] The idea is to divide Russia from the outside world, [4:16] because this world is poisonous to the brains of Russians. [4:21] The West was the source of bad ideas, revolutionary ideas, [4:25] liberal ideas. [4:26] It was always like this. [4:27] But how to live without internet? [4:30] How to live without communications? [4:32] The internet restrictions are not only causing a lot of frustration, [4:39] they're affecting businesses, like this one. [4:42] My name is Yulia. [4:50] I have a catering company. [4:52] There were times recently when our internet site was not accessible for our clients, [4:58] which was really painful, because we could not generate revenue from it. [5:03] Internet is very important. [5:05] It's like the air we breathe. [5:07] And my whole business was built on a concept that we are using internet in our day-to-day life. [5:14] Without internet access, my business in this format will not exist at all. [5:21] We've run our way to a town about 120 miles from Moscow. [5:30] It's one of a couple of dozen Russian towns and cities, [5:33] where local activists had requested permission from the local authorities [5:38] to hold public protests against restrictions to mobile internet, [5:43] and against internet censorship in general. [5:46] And in each case, permission has been denied. [5:49] The official reasons given for these rejections differ from town to town. [5:54] So, in some towns, the local authorities have said, [5:57] you can't hold a rally there because of coronavirus. [6:02] In other towns, they've said, no, you can't hold a rally because of the threat of drone attack or missile attack. [6:09] And in one town, they said, you can't hold a rally because of a roller skating master class at the same location. [6:16] My name is Yulia. [6:35] I'm an activist from the city of Vladimir. [6:37] I decided to make a meeting in my city against the internet block. [6:41] So, we went to several places for the choice of administration. [6:46] And in some time, we came back to the answer, [6:48] that on the 29th of March of March of March of March of March of March of March of March, [6:52] that on all 11 places in our city, [6:54] will be going to have a recovery of mechanical equipment. [6:59] From 9am to 7am. [7:01] On all? [7:02] Yes, on all. [7:03] It's the police police? [7:04] Yes. [7:05] It was a very interesting thing. [7:06] It was a very interesting thing for the police officers. [7:08] I came to the police officer, three people. [7:10] They took this camera on the camera, [7:12] as I wrote a picture of the police officer. [7:15] It was a very interesting thing. [7:17] It was a very interesting thing. [7:18] As if I felt as a terrorist as a terrorist. [7:21] Why did you want it to be a time? [7:23] Because it was, yes, it was a lot of hope? [7:25] Even, I don't know, there was a lot of hope that it was a chance. [7:27] There was a lot of hope, but it was important to show that it's not all right, that it's [7:34] really important, that we want to stop the Internet, so that the government understood [7:39] that it's important to us, that it's a part of our lives, and just like that, I couldn't [7:44] stop. [7:45] Here in the centre of Vladimir, like in many parts of Russia right now, there are [7:55] restrictions on mobile Internet. [7:57] Let me show you. [7:58] So, there's only a limited number of government-approved websites and services that I can access. [8:04] If I want to, for example, read the Russian government newspaper, their website, that [8:09] opens for me. [8:10] I can go onto the Kremlin website if I want to. [8:14] I've got access to that. [8:16] And I can also order a taxi in the town. [8:20] But any Google search, that doesn't work. [8:25] And no access to independent news websites. [8:30] Конечно, конечно, это беспокоит, конечно, это влияет на повседневную жизнь, это дискомфорт. [8:35] Сегодня не смог на заправке оплатить машину заправить, навигатор плохо работает, карты, ну и все такое. [8:42] Хочется быть в центре актуальных новостей и трендов всего, а здесь мы, получается, немножко отстаем от них. [8:50] Я могу себя занять и без интернета, у меня есть чем. И книги, и театр, и все прочее, и дача. [8:59] Конечно, нужен интернет всем людям всегда. Это все равно, что когда-то в свое время лампочку изобрели, свет, свет, то же самое интернет, люди привыкли к интернету. Нужен интернет всем людям. [9:12] В России много лет говорили о прогрессии, что будущее будет лучше. То, что случилось с вами, вот эти отказы, о чем это говорит? [9:22] Ну, это ощущение деградации, то есть мы откатываемся назад, в прошлое. [9:28] Ощущение прогресса, чисто вот за себя говорю, ощущение прогресса я точно не чувствую. [9:34] Ну, в принципе, как я думаю, что прогресс невозможен при условии, что мы как бы глобально, от глобального мира отключены. [9:43] Over the years, many Russians have said to me, Russians are very good at adapting. [9:56] Adapting to sanctions, to economic difficulties, to the loss of civil liberties, to internet restrictions. [10:03] It seems to me that if you're so focused on having to adapt to a constantly changing situation, [10:10] that leaves less time, less space to think about the future, to plan for the future. [10:16] Surviving today becomes the priority. [10:37] Well, we've seen how difficult it is in Russia to get permission to hold a rally or a street protest. [10:42] Back in Moscow, these people are trying something a bit different. [10:46] They've come to the presidential administration office in the center of Moscow to submit a petition, [10:52] calling on President Putin, basically, to end internet restrictions. [10:59] But as you can see, it's a very, very small group of people that's come out today. [11:04] The suspicion is that people are quite frightened to come out and demand their constitutional rights are restored. [11:11] I mean, since we arrived here a few minutes ago, we've been filmed quite closely by security officers on the street. [11:19] Coming to the presidential administration building, that really is putting your head above the parapet. [11:24] And there aren't many people who are prepared to do that in the current conditions. [11:29] My business is entirely on internet. [11:35] And each time, it's a huge loss for me. [11:39] And I'm supporting my own family and I'm supporting families of my employees. [11:44] And therefore, we are losing money every time there is a blockage of internet, [11:50] there is a blockage of Telegram, there is a blockage of WhatsApp. [11:53] We are losing, losing, losing, losing. [11:55] And no one is scaring about me. [11:57] So I need to care about myself here as well. [12:00] Aren't you frightened? Aren't you scared? [12:02] I'm very, I'm shaking. [12:06] I'm very scared. [12:08] Do you think that coming here today will make a difference? [12:11] I don't know. [12:12] Probably not. [12:14] But it's what I can do. [12:16] Good morning, good morning, it's Peskov. [12:19] You hear me? [12:20] I hear me? [12:22] Good morning, good morning. [12:23] BBC News. [12:25] Yes, please. [12:27] Thank you. [12:29] Blockage popular messenger messages, огрages in the work of mobile internet, [12:36] and confusion in the Russian society. [12:43] How are you in the sense of this social reaction and the огрages in the future? [12:55] It's not a path in the future? [12:57] Нет, это не путь в прошлое. [13:00] Сейчас ситуация, когда соображения безопасности диктуют необходимость принятия определенных мер. [13:11] Эти меры принимаются, и, безусловно, большинство наших сограждан понимает... [13:17] ...целесообразность этих мер и необходимость этих. [13:20] Понятно, что ограничения в работе интернета вызывают неудобства для многих граждан. [13:29] Но сейчас такой период, после того, как необходимость принятия этой меры исчезнет, [13:38] соответственно, и работа будет полностью восстановлена, нормализована. [13:43] I don't think that this regime is ready to go back. [13:47] They only can go forward in terms of more repressions. [13:55] Maybe it can stop for some time, this machine. [13:59] It could move slowly, but it will not go back to democracy, to liberal values, to human rights. [14:10] So we are losing the future, and people who are suggesting some images of the future, they suggest the past. [14:22] Our bright future is our dark past. [14:30] It feels like Russia is on a road, actually, that it's speeding down the highway towards, well, towards a future that kind of resembles the past. [14:40] And I think that this is a key point in this journey, because there is growing fatigue with the war on Ukraine, [14:48] and clear frustration at the government's attempts to restrict connectivity. [14:54] Even some pro-Kremlin commentators have slammed internet censorship. [14:59] So it'll be interesting to see whether their voices will be heard, [15:04] or will those driving Russia speed on regardless to the destination of their choice?