How US And Iranian Negotiations Fell Apart

[0:00] It's Monday, April 13, and U.S. forces are about to blockade the Strait of Hormuz. [0:06] We start here. [0:10] After negotiations between Iran and the United States fell apart over the weekend, President [0:14] Trump ups the ante. [0:16] This is really kind of, pardon the pun, but uncharted waters here. [0:21] What U.S. control of one of the world's most critical waterways could look like, and what [0:25] it means for the future of the war on Iran. [0:28] The Trump administration loses one of its closest allies in Europe. [0:31] The ramifications of this are spilling right across Europe as we speak. [0:35] Viktor Orban concedes defeat in Hungary's presidential election to a former member of his own party. [0:41] And the frontrunner in the California governor's race drops out amid claims of sexual assault. [0:46] It's not just his higher political ambitions of wanting him to be California governor. [0:51] It's his very spot in national politics that is on the line here. [0:56] How the allegations against Eric Swalwell are reverberating through Congress. [1:02] From ABC News, this is Start Here. [1:04] I'm Mike DeBoskie. [1:09] Hey there, Brad's out today, but don't worry, I've got you covered. [1:13] As we've been covering for weeks now, the Strait of Hormuz has really been at the center [1:17] of this war with Iran. [1:19] A big part of the reason that gas prices now top $4 a gallon across much of the country [1:23] is because of this crucial waterway on Iran's southern border. [1:27] About a fifth of the world's oil supply flows through there to say nothing of critical products [1:31] like fertilizer, and it's been effectively shut down since the start of the fighting. [1:36] They're militarily defeated, and now we're going to open up the Gulf with or without them. [1:42] Well, this weekend, the Strait was one of several key discussion points at a high-stakes meeting [1:47] in Pakistan between the Iranians and an American delegation led by Vice President J.D. Vance. [1:53] Look, we're looking forward to the negotiation. I think it's going to be positive. We'll foresee. [1:57] But after less than 24 hours, those talks fell apart, and President Trump is now talking [2:02] about taking control of the Strait. So let's start the day with ABC's Alex Preshay, who's [2:06] been covering this for us. Alex, there was a lot of buildup to these talks. What happened? [2:11] They were really long negotiations. We're talking about 21 hours here in Islamabad, right? [2:16] But for all the pressure that was mounted on this meeting, something that hadn't happened in nearly [2:23] 50 years at this level between the two nations of Iran and the U.S., this was pretty disappointing. [2:30] We've had a number of substantive discussions with the Iranians. That's the good news. [2:34] The bad news is that we have not reached an agreement, and I think that's bad news for Iran [2:38] much more than it's bad news for the United States of America. [2:41] So for the U.S., the biggest sticking point, and this is ultimately why the President said these [2:47] talks fell apart for us, Iran wouldn't commit to not pursuing a nuclear weapon. [2:53] The simple fact is that we need to see an affirmative commitment that they will not [2:59] seek a nuclear weapon, and they will not seek the tools that would enable them to quickly achieve [3:04] a nuclear weapon. That is the core goal of the President of the United States. [3:07] We know that we were asking for the removal of Iran's enriched uranium supply, but it appears [3:14] that they have not given up or at least conceded these ambitions for creating a nuclear weapon at [3:20] some point down the line. Now, for the Iranians, it was different. They said that they just didn't [3:26] feel like they could trust the U.S., and we knew that was a concern for both sides going into this. [3:32] Well, now the President is saying that we're going to essentially blockade this straight, [3:36] kind of like what happened in Venezuela. He said that they were going to be allowing [3:39] batches of ships in and then batches out, but this is really kind of, pardon the pun, but uncharted [3:48] waters here that we're dealing with in terms of how this will actually play out. The President [3:53] said that it'll take a little while to set up, but effectively it's going to be up and running pretty [3:59] soon. And to that point, we just saw two Navy destroyers go through the straight-of-form moves [4:06] over the weekend. [4:07] Right, which brings us to the next part of this question, which is that the President is now [4:11] saying the United States wants to take control of this very crucial waterway. [4:14] U.S. Central Command says it's going to be setting up a blockade as soon as this morning. Alex, [4:19] what is that going to look like? And can the Trump administration actually do that? [4:23] Well, can the Trump administration do that? If you're asking legally, I'm sure there are some [4:30] scholars out there that would point to some red flags, but also who's going to stand in his way [4:36] right now, right? I mean, I think that's a very fair point. And the President, hearkening back to [4:41] what happened in Venezuela, those were also international waters. It was something that [4:45] the U.S. military carried out despite uproar from some. And so I think that is a very valid [4:52] question as to, all right, well, yeah, you can talk about, you know, legal challenges here, [4:57] but the reality is there's a huge military presence in the region. There are already ships [5:02] that have passed through, U.S. ships that have passed through. The President says that this is [5:06] something they're going to do. And also, you know, there's an understanding internationally that [5:11] Iran's control of this strait and not allowing ships to pass through freely could be crippling for [5:17] the global economy. So who is going to stand in the way here? [5:20] The President is also now calling on a lot of American allies to stand behind this idea. What [5:25] can you tell us about that? Yeah. And so that's going to be really interesting, right? Because [5:28] President Trump was really critical of a lack of involvement from our allies in this conflict [5:35] with Iran. We heard him in a phone interview earlier Sunday say that we think that numerous [5:40] countries are going to be helping us with this, this being that blockade. So that's going to be [5:45] really kind of critical to watch because, you know, if we do see a number of U.S. allies actually, [5:53] you know, buy in here, that would certainly signal a turning of the tide, if you will, [5:58] and certainly increase pressure on Iran. As you mentioned there, Alex, it's kind of hard for Iran [6:04] to make an argument that the Trump administration can't do this in the shadow of a lot of military [6:08] hardware, aircraft carriers and whatnot. So what actually happens next here? What's kind of next [6:14] coming down the pike? Well, so, you know, we'll see how this blockade kind of develops. But, you [6:19] know, the other thing that we're not just hearing from the Iranians, we're not just hearing from the [6:25] U.S. delegation, you know, there is there is a collective hope in that Middle East region that [6:30] these talks will resume. We actually heard from the foreign minister of Pakistan where these this [6:34] trilateral took place. We hope that the two sides continue with the positive spirit to achieve [6:42] durable peace and prosperity. There was a lot of ground that was covered over this weekend. This [6:47] 21 hour negotiations, certainly it wasn't the outcome that either side really hoped for. But, [6:53] you know, Pakistan is going to continue to provide a vehicle for dialogue between these two. So [6:59] certainly, you know, there is a push for renewed talks. But look, right now there's nothing yet on [7:06] the table. Right. We're going to have to see if that changes at all in the next few days. Alex [7:10] Preshay, I know that you're going to keep an eye on this for us. Thanks for talking to me. Of course, [7:14] Mike. Thanks. Next up on Start Here, a setback for the MAGA movement in Europe after the break. [7:21] So we mentioned before the break that Vice President J.D. Vance was in Pakistan for those [7:30] negotiations with Iran this weekend. But that wasn't the only high profile foreign trip in recent [7:35] days for the vice president. Last week, Vance appeared in Hungary to campaign for Viktor Orban, [7:40] who served as that country's president for 16 years. He's a very, very important partner for [7:45] peace with the American government because he is. Orban had been facing a major election [7:49] challenge from a relatively new political party led by a man named Peter Magyar. Well, yesterday, [7:55] Magyar won Hungary's presidential election in a landslide. We're going to bring in ABC's Tom [8:01] Sufi Burj to explain all of this to us. Tom, my Hungarian politics are a little rusty here. So [8:06] level set this for me, if you will. How big a deal is this for Hungary? [8:10] It's a massive deal. I mean, look, Viktor Orban was undisputably the predominant figure of modern [8:17] Hungarian politics. I mean, he was gunning for a fifth consecutive term. He concentrated power in [8:23] his office. I mean, his critics basically said that he turned Hungary into something of a slightly [8:29] authoritarian EU state. I mean, not authoritarian like Russia, but, you know, one where the media [8:35] wasn't totally free. A lot of power was concentrated. Judges that he appointed were favorable to him. So [8:42] it's huge for Hungary, but it's much bigger than that. I mean, the ramifications of this are spilling [8:49] right across Europe as we speak. Together, we replaced the Orban regime. Together, we liberated [8:57] Hungary. Together, we took back our homeland. We've seen already European leaders like French [9:03] President Emmanuel Macron welcome the news that Peter Magyar has defeated Orban. But I think Orban's [9:08] defeat is really the story here, because, you know, he was for decades a thorn in the side of the [9:15] European Union, in direct conflict with them. And then more recently, he's been the closest buddy [9:22] of President Trump in Europe. You repair what was done badly by the previous administration. So now we [9:28] are in quite a good position to open up a new chapter, let's say a golden age between United [9:34] States and Hungary. And actually, really, he's the only close buddy of President Trump who's actually [9:40] been in power. Well, that is no longer the case. There is no far right leader who speaks the Maga [9:47] speak in Europe, who is in power, apart from, you know, the leader of Slovakia, a tiny, tiny country. [9:53] So, you know, it matters for Europe. And it also matters for the Trump administration's [9:58] stated aim that they want to promote and increase Maga style politics on this continent here in Europe. [10:04] Right. And it wasn't just the Trump administration that was throwing its support behind Orban [10:09] in this election. We also saw Vladimir Putin kind of align with that movement as well. So [10:14] what does this tell us about the larger, broader, as you say, sort of Maga movement in Europe, the [10:20] ouster of Viktor Orban? Well, yeah, that's the other major fault line, Mike, in this is the Russia [10:25] factor. Because yes, Viktor Orban was a close ally of Vladimir Putin. Well, he is still a close ally. [10:31] I mean, he was pretty much the only European leader who was going to Moscow recently. He wasn't like [10:38] supporting Russia's war in Ukraine, but he was blocking European support for Ukraine. I mean, [10:45] more recently, he's actually been blocking a 100 billion dollar EU loan, which was destined for [10:52] Ukraine and vital to keep that country afloat and also for its its efforts in defending itself [10:59] against Russia. So you would say that Ukraine cannot win that war? A miracle can happen. Yeah. [11:07] There's no doubt about it. It's not good news for the Kremlin. They will be unhappy. Viktor Orban was [11:13] their main guy within the European Union. And what you've got to realise is that for the Kremlin, [11:18] the European Union is their main adversary in the world today. They're constantly working to undermine [11:24] the European Union. And actually, Viktor Orban was doing that nicely for them because he was always [11:29] chipping away at European Union authority, criticising European Union, what he said was [11:35] interference. Although the new guy coming in, Peter Maggia, he hasn't been talking out in favour [11:40] of Ukraine and hasn't at all been campaigning on that issue. He's been pretty silent on the war. But [11:46] what I think is key is that he is now saying he will repair relations with the European Union, [11:52] he wants to have a constructive relationship with the European Union and the main powers in Europe, [11:56] like France, Germany, etc. And you'd imagine that part of that equation will be stopping blocking [12:03] huge loans from the EU to Ukraine. So it is good news for Ukraine, too. [12:07] Tom, we heard Viktor Orban concede on Sunday. What did we hear from him? And [12:11] what's been the reaction from everyday Hungarians in all this? [12:14] Well, I mean, Orban doesn't sound like he's bowing out of politics. I mean, [12:19] he's sort of talking about remaining in the opposition. He did concede the election [12:23] relatively quickly on Sunday night. [12:25] The election results are painful for us, but clear. The responsibility and opportunity [12:31] to govern were not given to us. I congratulate you, the winning party, and thank you for your hard work. [12:37] I thought that was significant because some analysts and commentators [12:40] have thought that because of his track record of concentrating power in the office of the [12:47] prime minister in himself and his ruling elite, there were fears or concerns amongst his critics [12:54] that he might try and hold on to power and the vote on Sunday might not be free and fair. Because, [13:00] I mean, there have been allegations of vote buying in Hungary over the years. That wasn't the case. [13:05] We had this absolutely record turnout. Well over 70% of people turned out in the election. [13:16] And that, I think, showed what was at stake here. And, you know, I think Hungary has really gone for [13:23] change. Yeah, Tom, as you said there, it's not like Hungary's replacing, you know, a far right figure [13:29] with a far left figure. It's still a right-leaning figure, but one that brings in a whole lot of change, [13:35] not just for Hungary, but for Europe more broadly as well. Tom Sufi Burridge, thanks so much for [13:39] covering this for us. We really appreciate it. Thanks, Mike. [13:46] On Friday, the San Francisco Chronicle released a report detailing allegations of sexual assault [13:52] against Democratic Representative Eric Swalwell by a former staffer. Swalwell has since denied [13:57] those allegations in a video he posted on social media. [14:00] These allegations of sexual assault are flat false. They are absolutely false. They did not happen. [14:06] They have never happened. And I will fight them with everything that I have. [14:10] Throughout the weekend, more women started coming forward with allegations. Now, [14:14] none of these allegations have been independently verified by ABC News, [14:17] and Swalwell has denied the claims. All of this, of course, had been happening as Swalwell was running [14:22] for governor of California. Well, last night, he announced he's suspending his campaign. [14:27] ABC News investigative reporter Olivia Rubin has been following this story. Olivia, [14:31] what exactly did Swalwell say when he announced he's dropping out? [14:34] Mike, the congressman announcing the move in a late-night social media post, [14:38] saying he's suspending his campaign, apologizing to family, staff, friends and supporters, [14:43] saying he's sorry for, quote, mistakes in judgment I've made in my past. But he's drawing a line here, [14:50] saying the allegations are false, vowing to continue to fight them, [14:54] but noting here that that's his fight, not a campaign's. [14:58] What exactly does this report allege? [15:01] Yeah, well, it's a range of allegations here, right? It's four women accusing Swalwell of various [15:06] allegations from sexual assault to inappropriate conduct. But it's important to note, ABC hasn't [15:11] actually independently confirmed these allegations. These allegations were made to outlets, including [15:16] the San Francisco Chronicle and CNN. But in terms of what they are, there's first and foremost, [15:21] one former staffer who in a CNN exclusive claim that Swalwell sexually assaulted her twice, [15:27] once when she worked for him in 2019, a second time in New York City in 2024. In an interview with CNN, [15:35] this person sitting down in shadow, meaning you don't know their identity, but saying to CNN, [15:40] I was pushing him off me saying no and adding, quote, he didn't stop. Now, a source has told ABC that [15:46] the Manhattan District Attorney's Office is now investigating that claim, given that it did [15:51] occur in New York City. But there's also another accuser. Her name's Ali Samarco. She's a young [15:58] Democratic social media influencer, if you will. And I spoke with her last night and she alleged that [16:04] Swalwell sent her a nude photo on Snapchat. This came as they met on social media, messaged for weeks, [16:11] and after they actually met, she says, in his congressional office as she was trying to find [16:17] a job. I asked her how that nude photo made her feel. She said the alleged photo made her feel, [16:22] quote, gross. Now, Swalwell and his attorney didn't immediately respond to our request for comment [16:29] on that. But Swalwell has denied in general all of these allegations. Right. And as you mentioned there, [16:35] Olivia, Swalwell has been pushing back on this in a really big way. Just walk me through a little [16:39] bit more of what he and his team have been saying in response to all of this. What he said was that [16:43] he denies the allegations. The congressman categorically denies any misconduct took place, [16:49] and we intend to vindicate his rights in court. He did mention his wife. He said he may have made [16:55] some mistakes, but that's between him and his wife. I do not suggest to you in any way that I'm [17:00] perfect or that I'm a saint. I've certainly made mistakes in judgment in my past. But those mistakes [17:06] are between me and my wife. And to her, I apologize deeply for putting her in this position. And he [17:12] tried to sort of differentiate it seemed between, you know, potentially inappropriate conduct versus [17:19] what is verging on now these allegations of assault, of unwanted photos, of things like that. [17:25] So he's sort of trying to draw a line in the sand there between something that's illegal and [17:31] something that is just inappropriate in terms of his marriage. As we mentioned earlier, Swalwell has [17:36] now dropped out of the California governor's race, but that might not actually be the end of the story. [17:41] Olivia, how secure is Swalwell's job as a congressman? At this point in time, Republicans [17:48] are saying that they're going to file a motion to expel him from Congress at all. And there's even [17:53] some Democrats who are saying that they would sign on to this. So it's not just his higher political [17:59] ambitions of wanting him to be California governor. It's his very spot in national politics that is on [18:05] the line here and ready for this. This is an unbelievable stat at how rare this is for Congress [18:11] to actually try to expel someone from Congress. Just six members have been expelled from Congress [18:18] in more than 230 years. Most recently, as we remember, was former Congressman George Santos in 2023. [18:25] So this is not something that happens all the time. And at this point, [18:28] some Democrats are just wondering if he should just resign instead. [18:31] Olivia Rubin, thanks for breaking that all down for us. [18:34] Awesome. Thanks for having me. [18:35] All right. One more quick break. When we come back, one of the world's leading [18:40] artificial intelligence companies locks the gates to its latest technology. [18:44] One last thing is next. And one last thing. [18:52] You remember this line in Jurassic Park about how their [18:55] scientists never stopped to think about the implications of resurrecting the dinosaurs, [19:00] and now the whole theme park is overrun with velociraptors? [19:03] Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, [19:06] they didn't stop to think if they should. [19:07] Well, it seems like a lot of researchers at Anthropic are fans of Jeff Goldblum's character [19:12] in that movie, because in the last week, that major artificial intelligence company said [19:17] they've built a new large language model that they're not going to release to the public. [19:21] The reason, according to Anthropic, it's too dangerous. [19:24] Has Anthropic built Megatron? Like, do they have, like, this terrifying technology, [19:32] like, scoured away somewhere in Silicon Valley or wherever it is they're headquartered? [19:36] Not yet, no. They've got a really powerful tool for breaking the systems, but it's not Megatron yet. [19:41] That's Clive Thompson. He's a tech writer and author talking about what Anthropic has dubbed [19:46] Claude Mythos. And he says this is basically an evolution of what the company has been building for years now. [19:53] AI models focused specifically on coding. [19:56] If you're a software developer and you want to use AI to write code, [20:00] most of them are using Anthropic code. It's a dominant player. [20:03] So they've long had an edge or an expertise in analyzing code. [20:07] And this is essentially just another form of analyzing code, looking for ways to break into [20:13] systems, looking for insecurities in systems. [20:15] If you're a company that does a lot of business online, which, let's face it, is most major businesses, [20:20] you've had to hire teams of people to comb through your code, making sure there's no [20:24] cracks in security that could let bad guys in. This takes a lot of time and effort and money. [20:30] And even still, there are these major data breaches that happen. [20:33] What Claude Mythos purports to do is automate that process. [20:37] I think it's kind of interesting, a possibility that if you had something like Mythos working, [20:42] it could actually be like, OK, go and clean up all these vulnerabilities automatically, [20:48] you know, much faster than humans could do it. [20:50] Sounds great, right? Well, not so fast. [20:53] Clive says if Claude Mythos can give businesses a rundown of vulnerabilities, [20:57] it can also be used by hackers basically drawing up a list of weak points in a system. [21:05] Untold thousands or even millions of black hat hackers who want to break into systems. [21:10] And they would love to get their hands on this so they could figure out cool new vulnerabilities [21:14] that would get them in to your email, to your bank records, to whatever. [21:17] It really would, if it were actually out there, I mean, it would really supercharge attacks on systems. [21:22] That's why he says Anthropic is only allowing a few dozen businesses, [21:26] including Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon, to access this model right now. [21:30] Clive says we've seen this playbook before. Back in 2019, OpenAI, the company behind ChatGPT, [21:37] said it wasn't going to release its latest model, GPT-2, because they said it was too powerful. [21:43] Just a few short years later, 900 million people use ChatGPT every week, according to OpenAI. [21:50] As Jeff Goldblum's character would say, life and large language models? Find a way. [21:55] Stuff that people say, yeah, this fire is too Promethean to give to humanity, [22:01] it winds up, you know, being a bonfire in everyone's backyard pretty quickly. [22:04] But there's another way to think about all of this. Keeping Claude Mythos locked away is in [22:09] line with how Anthropic has been pitching itself as a safety-first AI company. It even walked away [22:16] from a lucrative deal with the Pentagon over concerns about its tech being used in warfare. [22:21] Let's not forget, pretty much no one outside that handful of companies has gotten a chance [22:26] to evaluate Claude Mythos for themselves. This is a little like if those dinosaur scientists had just [22:32] told us they'd resurrected the T-Rex, but didn't actually invite us to Jurassic Park. [22:38] Is this the end of the world, or is this basically just an ad for Anthropic? [22:42] Uh, it's not a, I don't think it's just an ad, but it's pretty dangerous. [22:46] I was gonna tell Brad Milkey that we decided not to post this episode of Start Here because what we [22:53] created is just too dangerous to release, but thought better of it. Hey, speaking of Brad, he's gonna be [22:58] back tomorrow. For more on all the stories that we talked about here, make sure to tune in to ABC News [23:02] Live wherever you stream live news. For Brad Milkey, I'm Mike Dubusky. Have a great day.