How significant are the US-Iran peace talks? — BBC Newscast

[0:00] Hello it's Victoria in the studio and it's Nick in the studio and we are starting off with news [0:04] from Pakistan because as we record at half past three on Saturday afternoon the talks are on and [0:11] we're very happy to have friend of newscast panorama filmmaker and foreign affairs and peace [0:16] talk specialist Jane Corbyn with us in the newscast studio hello again very good to be here [0:21] so Nick what do we know in terms of the latest well what we've heard in the last few hours [0:27] uh Vic on this Saturday afternoon it's from Reuters this is Idris Ali who's the Reuters national [0:32] security correspondent who covers the pentagon who's somebody we'll watch uh with great care on [0:37] news night now Idris is reporting that a Pakistani source has told him that the three-way talks are [0:44] underway face-to-face involving the U.S. delegation led by Vice President J.D. Vance Steve Wyckoff [0:51] who is President Trump's sort of great peace negotiator and his son-in-law Jared Kushner in [0:57] the Iranian side there is the speaker of the Iranian parliament who's described as a hardliner but [1:03] I'm told a flexible hardliner if that's not a contradiction in terms and uh the Iranian [1:08] foreign minister and crucially Pakistan's army chief who of course Donald Trump says is his [1:13] favorite field marshal so in other words this is actually happening right and Nick you have covered [1:20] peace processes most notably Northern Ireland Jane you have covered multiple peace processes notably the [1:26] Oslo Accords the significance of these talks actually happening with those key players well [1:33] it's significant they're happening it's significant they're happening in person and it's significant [1:38] they seem to all be in the room together we don't exactly know how it's how it splits down so [1:43] all of those things are really significant but on the other side I would say that peace talks [1:49] conducted in the glare of publicity which of course this one is are even more difficult to bring off than [1:54] those conducted in secret and this has been in the public eye right from the word go and continues to [1:59] be so each side will need to come out with something and that obviously leads to posturing and what's [2:04] really important in peace talks is that people forget the history they forget the posturing and they [2:08] get down to the nitty-gritty that's what's important I mean this is the highest led delegation [2:16] between the United States and the Islamic Republic of Iran I think correct me if I'm wrong Jane [2:22] since the revolution of 1979 this is a hugely significant moment and what you often find in [2:29] these peace talks is there's a lot that makes you think this is absolutely hopeless because as they're [2:35] meeting in Islamabad President Trump on truth social has been saying the Iranians got no cards to [2:42] play unless they open up the strait of hummus it's all over and you think well that's pretty hopeless but the [2:48] fact that they're there makes you think there is a force driving this and I have a theory maybe this [2:54] theory is wrong which is both sides have lost both sides have won and therefore they have a shared [3:01] interest this has got to work and this conflict has got to end for both of them is that fair yeah and we [3:09] also know that a week ago JD Vance was up for 24 hours trying to get this thing off the ground he was [3:16] the key player on the American side when people said do you remember Monday or Tuesday that was the [3:22] deadline it was going to be you know bombing bridges bombing power stations and we know that the Pakistanis [3:28] with JD Vance really wrestled this thing to the ground if you like and therefore I think the fact that [3:32] a week on he is leading the American delegation has got to make us think as you said Nick you know [3:40] both sides have lost both sides have won there is so much in it and Mohammed Bakr Kalibaf yes he's a [3:46] hard liner it's not that he's flexible but he's a pragmatist he's a realist and the fact that he is [3:51] leading the Iranian delegation I think is also very significant and what's interesting is we know that JD [3:57] Vance historically has been an absolute skeptic of foreign intervention and there was a fascinating [4:04] account that's coming out from a new book by Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan who know the Trump House [4:10] very well work for the New York Times and they had an account of this crucial meeting in the White House [4:15] Situation Room on the 11th of February the president said the vice president there Benjamin Netanyahu is [4:22] there and Benjamin Netanyahu sets out the case for why this action should take be taken against Iran [4:28] and how it would work and how it wouldn't work and one of the big things according to those two authors [4:34] was that the Iranian regime would be so beaten by this that they would not be able to close off the [4:41] Strait of Hormuz what is the big thing that has brought Donald Trump to the negotiating table it's [4:48] closing off the Strait of Hormuz not because US oil goes through there but because if you close it off [4:54] up goes the price of oil up goes inflation that's why they're at the negotiating table yeah and it's [4:59] ironic isn't it a lot of these people like the foreign minister for Iran was very involved in the [5:04] nuclear negotiations that have been going on for it seems decades when they were first originally agreed [5:10] and yet at the end of the day it's not the nuclear issues that has brought this to a head as Nick says [5:15] it's the Straits of Hormuz they will still have to decide what to do about the accusation that Iran [5:21] seeks a weapon and that has kilograms of enriched uranium but the Straits of Hormuz has replaced the [5:28] nuclear issue as if you like the bargaining chip that Iran holds in its hand and it's not going to [5:34] let go right can I just ask what's the JD Vance being in the room the vice president as opposed to [5:41] secretary of state Marco Rubio we know that JD Vance has been noticeably quiet in terms of [5:48] overt support for this US military action but he's very much there as they try to negotiate peace is he [5:56] looking ahead to you know Republican presidential candidate next time around he doesn't want the [6:01] war hung around his neck but the peace yes I think the official explanation for why JD Vance there [6:08] is President Trump is saying this is showing how serious this delegation is you have my deputy [6:14] there you have my peace negotiator there you have my son-in-law there these people speak for me yeah [6:19] but I wonder whether the real reason is that Donald Trump is binding JD Vance into this process a process [6:29] that JD Vance was clearly skeptical about he's binding him into it and is Donald Trump playing games ahead of the [6:37] 2028 presidential election it could be a good cop bad thing couldn't it this is what happens in [6:42] negotiations you've got Donald Trump arguably the tough the bad cop back home you've got the good cop [6:48] the one that's been quieter that's actually brought this about has actually made it happen in Pakistan [6:53] with Shabad Sharif the Pakistani prime minister so that's that's an important dynamic in any negotiation [6:59] as well is how they sit right you both have experience of covering these what what can be [7:06] very complex very sensitive very long peace negotiations peace talks what is it like around [7:16] the negotiating table what can it be like well I think when they're in the room together it's really [7:21] important that the body language they're in the room the physical ability to see what's in the other [7:26] person's eyes even if you're not speaking the same language and you have to do it through interpreters [7:30] that's really important I also think it's it's important to be in there for the long term for the [7:36] long slog one of the original rounds of nuclear discussions that took place negotiators went thinking [7:42] they'd be there for three days they were there for three weeks I mean are we in that situation I very [7:49] much doubt it here both sides are going to want to have to show something and come out publicly with [7:54] something to show I would have thought pretty quickly and it will be in Pakistan's interest [7:59] even if they don't reach an agreement to try to keep the thing going to try and keep the ceasefire [8:04] going that's the important thing I mean the point about negotiations and the lesson of the Good Friday [8:10] Agreement negotiations in Northern Ireland in 1998 is it can look hopeless it can look like it's going to [8:17] fall apart Tony Blair had to do sort of side letters to the late RC university to David Trimble on the [8:23] decommissioning of IRA weapons there were moments when you just thought the whole thing was going [8:28] to fall apart but essentially what you had at that point was a whole series of forces coming together [8:35] Britain wanted this to work the Irish Republic wanted this to work and fundamentally Sinn Féin had [8:41] decided that what they called the armed struggle was not going to get their ultimate objective and the [8:47] late David Trimble had decided the best way to preserve the union was to have stability and power [8:53] sharing within Northern Ireland and when you have those big picture decisions then you would hope that [9:02] you can drive it through however difficult it may look do you think we have that here with this I'm not [9:09] sure we do yet okay I mean who doesn't really similarly with Oslo Israel Palestine they as it was with [9:16] Good Friday the Good Friday Agreement both sides were exhausted exhausted by war exhausted by conflict [9:22] I'm not sure where we are with Iran and the US and obviously the the wild card if you like of Israel [9:30] of course Iran needs this look whole layers of their government their military have been taken out but [9:37] they not to mention the civilian population not to mention the civilian population they tend not to [9:42] but you know they have survived it's an existential survival for them and therefore hence they believe [9:50] that they have won for America I think it's obviously very important for President Trump with the economy [9:57] threatened with the midterm elections coming up but I'm not sure that they're at that point that Nick [10:03] talks about in Good Friday Agreement and we had with Israel Palestine I'm not sure that they are [10:08] prepared to back down on these enormous differences with Straits of Hormuz and and the and nuclear apart [10:16] from obviously Israel and Lebanon so there's a series of things that could scupper this so the speaker of [10:21] the Iranian parliament went into these negotiations saying we have got to have our assets unfrozen by the [10:29] United States Israel has got to observe a ceasefire in Lebanon on the first of those the US said we're [10:36] not going to unfreeze your assets and on the second of those the United States is talking about Benjamin [10:41] Netanyahu dialing down the action in Lebanon but that hasn't happened the third thing that could scupper [10:47] it is where are they on Iran's nuclear program so there's three things that could scupper it the potential [10:54] big picture the sort of the big forces that could drive this through if it happens is number one [11:01] Donald Trump judging that the Strait of Hormuz must be open to preserve world economic stability and the [11:08] second thing is the Iranians have shown they can take a lot of pain but can they really keep on taking [11:15] this pain those are potentially the two big things that could overcome the three difficulties I was talking [11:21] about but within say the Strait of Hormuz difficulty you know can they open it we we're reading reports [11:29] that the waters are heavily mined it's not going to be that easy to open it and what does opening it [11:34] mean does it mean that they exact tolls the Iranians exact tolls which they have been doing on shipping [11:40] is that allowable or is it that Donald Trump is prepared to give way on some of these things and [11:46] say as he has already that's for those countries whose oil passes through there to sort out yeah [11:52] it's not America's problem but it is everybody else's problem and you've got the UK Prime Minister [11:57] and and the coalition of countries that the foreign secretary brought together before Easter saying [12:01] look has to be open it has to be safe and it has to be toll free by the way when we say toll free [12:07] it's not like one pound fifty to go through such and such a million it's two it's two million and Oman [12:13] which is on the other side of the Strait I mean if anyone's going to charge a toll what does Oman get [12:19] half of it and and the Iranians have already reached out to the Omanis and said maybe we should share [12:23] this so there are all sorts of regional dynamics going on there as well messages from Donald Trump [12:28] because he was asked about this Iranian idea of the tolls and he went hey yeah maybe we could do that [12:31] and then he came out and said no I should say Vic there are reports this afternoon that the US [12:36] has sent warships through the state of Hormuz oh yeah to test it wow and the argument for doing [12:42] it was testing free passage because it should be an international waterway and why are they doing that [12:48] I don't know could it possibly be to sort of test the Iranians so the Iranians great thing they've come [12:54] across is we've closed the Strait of Hormuz are the United States testing that well you the Iranians [13:00] might take a different attitude to a US warship passing through the Strait of Hormuz [13:04] and to a commercial vessel and of course the key thing is the insurers you know when are the insurers [13:10] going to be prepared to let vessels through with or without military escort a warship escort the all [13:15] of these are enormously complex questions which have to be determined Jane very good to see you [13:21] thank you so much as always thank you and now news from the states hello British astronaut Tim Peake how [13:27] are you hello doing very well thank you and what an exciting night you are obviously one half of the [13:32] presenting duo of the 13 minutes presents Artemis podcast which has been going on for the duration [13:38] of this incredibly exciting mission and Nick you were talking about this for most of news night [13:43] with Tim and Dame Dr Maggie and Tim I just wanted to ask you I mean I think I'm right in saying that [13:49] you were the first Brit to go to the International Space Station so you know what it's like to re-enter [13:56] the earth at just over 24 000 miles an hour going through I think it's 2 700 degrees celsius what on [14:05] earth is that like it was phenomenal to watch that crew come back last night it was a textbook mission [14:11] and a textbook re-entry coming back from the space station actually we're a bit slower we're doing only [14:17] 17 and a half thousand miles an hour but it's still you know pretty spectacular when you re-enter the [14:22] earth's atmosphere but this this crew coming back from the moon they've got that extra velocity and [14:28] the heat shield performed exactly as we had hoped the canopies performed exactly as as planned so [14:34] wonderful to see that crew safely back so Tim you sort of could see the capsule coming [14:40] uh at great speed and then the various parachutes open and then as Vic says it slows down then you [14:47] have touched down on the water and then the door opens what on earth is that like when you can breathe [14:55] the earth's air it's a pretty wonderful feeling because you know you've been inside this sealed [15:01] environment recycling the air you've you've been missing the smells the sense the wind the temperature the [15:08] weather of planet earth so when the hatch opens and you get those first uh smells of fresh earth air [15:15] it's actually really lovely to remind you that you're home now Tim i'm i'm not a scientist and [15:20] you are but i i do have this scientific insight which is the human body is designed around something [15:26] called gravity in terms of how your blood flows how everything happens what is it like you've had zero [15:33] gravity maybe not good for pumping blood around the body and here you are back with gravity what's [15:40] that like well it is a punishing transition actually it's way harder coming back to earth than it is [15:46] going into space when you go into space the body's having a brilliant time it's actually really easy [15:51] living in weightlessness your heart is having a fantastic time pumping blood around the body because [15:57] it's so easy it doesn't have to fight the force of gravity so your heart muscle actually shrinks if you [16:02] don't exercise um but on your muscles as well you're you're not having to support your frame and your [16:08] your muscle mass so your your muscles waste away if you don't do anything and that means your bone [16:12] density also atrophies so we exercise on the space station regularly every day about two hours to try and [16:19] stop these changes from happening so when you come back to earth into this gravity environment it's [16:25] it's quite punishing you're being crushed back down by gravity again your balance is a little bit off [16:30] your vestibular system is not quite right you might feel a little bit dizzy nauseous and so it's that [16:36] first couple of hours transitioning back onto earth that will be a bit uncomfortable for the crew [16:40] we're a fair few hours on now from splashdown what will the astronauts be doing right now [16:48] yet well it's a very busy period having splashed down they've been recovered back to the u.s navy vessel [16:54] that was waiting for them they were then flown by helicopter to san diego they obviously had [16:59] medical checks before that happened and then from san diego they'll be taking a flight to the johnson [17:04] space center in houston where their families will be waiting for them and that's going to happen at [17:09] some point today so this was artemis 2 that was having the first manned crew mission around the [17:16] moon in 53 years if i've got this right artemis 3 is to get used to docking is it with the lunar [17:24] landers and artemis 4 is boots on the ground on the moon how do you think that target's going for boots [17:33] back on the ground that's right nick and that was a fairly recent um announcement by the nasa [17:38] administrator jared isaacman because artemis 3 was going to be boots back on the moon again but what [17:44] this is doing is actually increasing the cadence keeping the momentum up of these launches and [17:49] de-risking that lunar landing again so artemis 3 as you correctly said it's going to basically rendezvous [17:57] and dock with the lunar landing system now there are two companies making those one of them is spacex [18:03] using its new starship rocket and one of them is blue origin and both of those at some point [18:08] are going to be used for lunar landers on future artemis missions so it could be one it could be [18:13] both we'll we'll see with artemis 3 which one they dock to but they'll be testing that system out [18:19] they'll also test out the new space suits that they're going to wear on the surface of the moon [18:23] so the artemis 4 which is currently planned for 2028 although that's probably a bit optimistic [18:30] that will be boots back on the surface of the moon again and you and dame maggie were telling us last [18:35] night on news night that there's some serious bit of real estate on the moon if i've got this right [18:40] it's down on the south there's water there's potentially a crater there that's where you [18:45] want to set up your big holiday inn and your big plant there tell us about you know it's not just [18:51] getting there and planting a flag it's actually setting up some sort of station it's mining it's that [18:56] sort of thing tell us about what you could get from the moon yes well i'm not sure holiday inn will [19:02] be the top priority but more of a lunar research base but you're right and it's quite interesting [19:08] isn't it that um it was only a few years ago that we were really able to confirm that there's a lot of [19:14] water on the moon in the form of water ice at both the north pole and the south pole in some of these [19:20] craters that never see sunlight uh the temperatures are such that we've got water ice in the lunar [19:25] regolith and in those craters and wherever we find water that's really useful for you know obviously [19:31] for living for creating oxygen in an atmosphere and from hydrogen auction you can create rocket fuel [19:36] and also at the south pole of the moon there are some areas around the rims of the craters which are [19:41] in permanent sunshine so you can put up your solar farm there and have 24 7 energy even during the 14 day [19:50] cycle when normally one side of the moon is going to be in complete darkness so to have that ability [19:55] to have permanent sunshine is really useful too so that's kind of where the target is at the moment [20:01] south pole of the moon lunar research base amazing and back to this artemis what what kind of results [20:08] are you looking forward to reading about from the experiments this crew have carried out yeah i mean [20:15] that's amazing i think we've learned so much more than we expected because the primary goal of this [20:19] mission was to test the orion spacecraft it's the first time we had humans inside you know can we [20:25] get the loo working can we get the temperature control right what about the water dispenser the [20:29] food the sleeping arrangements everything that revolves around humans living in space and the [20:34] capsule you know has performed brilliantly and we've learned a lot but then add in the science that [20:39] seven hour flyby around the lunar far side and having four human eyes you know taking so many [20:46] thousands of photographs and reporting back has been amazing they've seen parts of the moon that [20:52] no human eyes have seen before and been able to photograph it and in addition the icing on the cake [20:58] was getting a solar eclipse as well so seeing the whole corona as that sun dipped behind the moon they [21:05] were able to get some brilliant photographs i we spoke to dr kelsey young who's nasa's science lead for [21:11] this artemis 2 mission and she is delighted with the results so far and now of course they've got [21:17] the the many hard weeks and months of analyzing all this data the crew are bringing back one of the [21:23] most emotional moments of of their whole mission in in my view while up there the team proposed naming [21:29] some of the craters that they could see and one of the most poignant moments was when jeremy hansen [21:37] the mission specialist suggested that one of the craters should be named carol in tribute to [21:42] commander reed wiseman's late wife who died of cancer in 2020 at just 46. it's so poignant that you can [22:46] hear that his voice breaking and then you see this group hug as there is just silence as they all remember [22:52] carol c-a-r-r-o-double-l i mean it's absolutely extraordinary and i i it's just a reminder that as [23:00] the the joy that we've had from this mission also this just this sadness about you know losing people [23:07] we love absolutely it was one of the well the most emotional moment of the entire mission completely [23:14] took me by surprise i'm sure many people because we were just celebrating the fact they'd become the [23:19] furthest humans away from planet earth and jeremy made that announcement and um yes a hugely emotional [23:25] moment obviously we're a very close-knit family uh in the astronaut corps um and so losing carol was [23:32] um a huge uh impact on on everybody um but to have it so beautifully um kind of um well just that that [23:41] wonderful naming of the of the impact crater um was absolutely such a lovely way to remember carol and then [23:47] for for mission control just to allow that silence afterwards um i thought was a very special moment [23:53] very emotional for everybody involved it's interesting tim because the moment that i sort of found [23:59] very emotional and was thinking about this was in the final minutes before they came back to earth there [24:06] were six minutes of silence six minutes of no data and that was absolutely what was meant to happen [24:14] and what i was thinking was in that moment commander reed wiseman's two daughters who lost their mother [24:25] would have been looking at that presumably hoping and praying that their father would make it i remember [24:32] i just thought what a moment that must be for commander wiseman's daughters yes you're right and it's a huge [24:38] decision for any astronaut um to fly into space you're taking a large amount of risk um and as a father [24:45] myself i've had to kind of justify that to myself and discuss that with my family but you also have [24:51] to be true to yourself and you have to um be true to you know your family and set that example as to [24:56] who you are and why you're doing these things and um is a you know it is a it's a tough decision to make [25:02] that you're going to put yourself in this position where you're taking a large risk but we're all absolutely [25:08] passionate about what we do and we've got the love and support of our families to be able to [25:13] go and do these things and i think we do have to keep pushing these boundaries it's um it's what we [25:19] what we humans do and when we come together when we work together and you see what we've been able [25:24] to achieve in the last 10 days you know the human species is truly remarkable it's very easy to forget [25:30] that with a lot of negativity that happens in the world and i think sometimes to remember the positives [25:36] of what we can achieve when we work together when we put our minds together is truly exceptional [25:42] tim thank you very much thank you as well as your podcast you can see maggie and tim on the bbc [25:48] 2 horizon special artemis to the moon and back this wednesday 8 pm on bbc 2 and of course whenever you [25:54] want on iplayer thank you so much tim thank you thank you it's lovely talking to you