How much of US tax dollar money is going to war and weapons? — The Take

[0:00] Today, Americans are set to file their taxes. [0:04] While we're paying over $4,000 as the average taxpayer for war and weapons, [0:08] by contrast, the average taxpayer only paid about $2,500 for Medicaid. [0:15] So when trillions of dollars are set to fill the coffers of the world's largest federal budget, [0:21] how does that affect the entire world? [0:23] I'm Kevin Hurton, and this is The Take. [0:25] Hi. Before we continue with today's show, remember to leave us a comment. [0:35] Tell us what you think about this topic. [0:38] What do you make of the moral case for taxes in the United States? [0:42] What do you think about the priorities of the United States federal government [0:45] and how it affects the rest of the world? [0:47] And remember, to give us a five-star review on your favorite podcast app, [0:51] it really does help the show. [0:55] My name is Lindsay Koshgarian. [0:57] I am the program director at the National Priorities Project of the Institute for Policy Studies, [1:02] and I am based in Northampton, Massachusetts. [1:05] Okay. Lindsay, it's great to have you back on The Take. [1:09] So we are having this conversation on Tuesday, April 14th. [1:12] That's the eve of what is known in the U.S. as Tax Day. [1:17] This is the annual deadline for people in the United States [1:20] to submit their individual income taxes to the federal government. [1:23] Now, our listeners might be asking, why are we covering this U.S. Tax Day? [1:29] This is an international show, but the reason is simple. [1:32] It's because we're talking about an absolutely huge sum of money here [1:36] and where that money is spent has global repercussions. [1:39] So let's just start with some baseline numbers. [1:43] For the fiscal year of 2025, the federal government collected $5.26 trillion. [1:50] About half of that, $2.6 trillion, comes from individual income taxes. [1:55] So in broad strokes, where does all that money go? [1:58] How is that pie divided? [1:59] Well, one of the reasons that we look at Americans' tax receipt every year [2:05] is because of where the money goes and that money affecting the rest of the world, [2:12] specifically through the U.S. military budget, [2:14] which is the number one military budget in the world. [2:18] It's the largest. [2:19] It accounts for almost 40 percent of global military spending. [2:23] And of course, that has huge repercussions when the U.S. chooses to use that investment [2:27] to do things like attack Iran or invade Venezuela or other choices that we've seen recently [2:33] from the U.S. federal government. [2:35] So what we found this year was that, for example, the average U.S. taxpayer [2:39] paid over $4,000 for the U.S. for war and weapons [2:44] and how that compares to some other programs for things that benefit people here in the United States. [2:51] And what we found is that while we're paying over $4,000 as the average taxpayer for war and weapons, [2:57] by contrast to average taxpayer, only paid about $2,500 for Medicaid, [3:04] which is the largest health insurance program run by the federal government for low-income Americans. [3:10] Wow. Okay. [3:11] So in terms of the pie, about 60 percent of the federal budget is mandatory programs. [3:18] This is like things like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. [3:22] Then you have this other pie, which is discretionary spending. [3:24] Is that where the defense money comes, in the discretionary section? [3:30] Yes. [3:31] The U.S. military budget is in the discretionary portion of the budget. [3:35] All that means is that it's the money that Congress allocates every year. [3:39] And so for this year, Congress has allocated a trillion dollars for the war budget for the first time since World War II. [3:45] And then the third pot of money is very substantial as well. [3:50] This is net interest on the debt. [3:53] In terms of the interest that we're paying on the debt, the United States is paying on the debt, [3:57] how does that compare with payments for things like Medicare? [4:03] The interest on the debt is actually quite high. [4:05] Right now, the interest on the debt for people in the United States for the average taxpayer is paying also over $4,000. [4:14] So it's right in the similar range to what we're paying for war and weapons. [4:18] Now, the interesting relationship between those two things is that quite a significant portion of our debt as the United States is for previous wars. [4:28] Remember, we were in Afghanistan for 20 years. [4:32] We were in Iraq for many years still to this day. [4:35] And so quite a significant portion of that debt is also attributable to the military and to U.S. wars. [4:42] Wow. OK. [4:43] So your report makes the case that the federal budget is not just a policy document. [4:48] It's also kind of a moral mirror that reflects the values of the society kind of back on itself. [4:54] In fact, the report is called The Moral Failures of Trump's Budget Policies. [4:59] You argue that recent Trump GOP budgets systematically shift resources from the poor and the low-income people to wealthy people, [5:08] to corporations, and the war machine more generally. [5:11] So you did all this work. [5:13] You lined up all of this evidence. [5:15] You're ready to argue your case. [5:16] And then Trump says this at the White House. [5:19] The United States can't take care of daycare. [5:22] That has to be up to a state. [5:24] We can't take care of daycare. [5:26] We're a big country. [5:27] We have 50 states. [5:28] We have all these other people. [5:29] We're fighting wars. [5:30] We can't take care of daycare. [5:33] You've got to let a state take care of daycare. [5:35] And they should pay for it, too. [5:37] Lindsay, I wonder how this makes you feel when he says the quiet part out loud. [5:41] Does this make your job easier? [5:43] Or in a weird way, does it make it harder? [5:47] What makes it hard is the fact that they're doing this in the first place. [5:50] So, frankly, we've been sharing that Trump quote about how we are fighting wars and we [5:57] can't afford childcare and we can't afford Medicaid. [6:00] We've been sharing that every chance we get because we want to make people to understand [6:04] that this is intentional, that this is not an accident. [6:07] This is not some oversight. [6:10] This is an intentional policy choice to invest in war and to make war rather than to invest [6:15] in people here in the United States. [6:18] And right now, the United States is hurting. [6:20] More than half of people here say that they're struggling to afford basic necessities like [6:25] housing and healthcare and food. [6:27] And in the light of that, for Trump to make this extremely insensitive comment, really, [6:34] we want people to understand that this is not an accident, that he is not, you know, that [6:39] he's not pulling for us, that he's not trying his best for us. [6:43] Because we also, you know, we also make our choices. [6:46] We still have a democracy here in the United States for whatever that's worth. [6:51] And we want people to understand which choices their government is making and who their government [6:56] is fighting for. [6:57] And the fact is, right now, the government is not fighting for the average United States [7:02] person. [7:03] Yeah, what's different is that in the past, they would sort of hide the ball. [7:07] They would use terms like small government conservatives. [7:09] To be saying this so explicitly, I mean, I understand that it might make your job easier because you [7:16] can just point to this clip. [7:17] But when they're no longer trying to hide their priorities, it really is just full-scale warfare [7:23] and you have to come ready for battle. [7:25] Yes, well, and another thing we know is, you know, he referenced the fact that we're [7:31] fighting wars. [7:32] People here are aware of the war on Iran and it's not popular. [7:37] We have a poll that showed that almost 60% of people in the United States do not want [7:43] to spend more money for the war on Iran. [7:45] And then if you ask them if they want to shift money from health care to pay more money for [7:50] the war on Iran, that goes up to 70% of people in this country. [7:53] So the fact that he came right out and said it and said that they're doing the thing that [7:58] 70% of people in this country do not want is really significant. [8:02] And I think we want that clip to be seen as broadly as it can be because people, like I [8:08] said, need to understand that this is a deliberate policy choice that they're making. [8:11] So according to your report, cuts to Medicaid, the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, [8:18] and related changes could lead to about 51,000 preventable deaths each year, put more than [8:24] 14 million people at risk of losing health insurance. [8:28] Can you help us put this in human terms? [8:30] Explain why you frame this as truly a matter of life and death and not just budget tightening. [8:36] Well, first of all, I would be remiss if I didn't first recognize the life or death situation [8:43] for people in the Middle East, you know, for Iranians and so many people in Lebanon and [8:49] elsewhere. [8:50] And, you know, this the U.S. war on Iran has led to thousands of deaths, millions of people [8:55] fleeing their homes. [8:57] So that's, of course, the first thing. [8:58] And people in the United States should care about that as well. [9:01] But the second thing for people here in the United States is that last year, Trump and [9:07] his GOP allies did pass this law, which they was their their big, beautiful bill is what [9:13] they called it. [9:14] But it's a big, ugly bill for Americans because it is leading to this defunding of health care [9:20] that is putting 14 million people in this country at risk of losing their health insurance. [9:26] Health insurance in the United States is already far more expensive than in many other [9:29] countries and people have to procure their own health care. [9:33] So this is a huge danger for people here. [9:36] And there was a study, yes, that we cited that showed that potentially just from the loss [9:41] of health care and people not receiving basic services that they need for things like diabetes [9:47] or heart disease, that it could lead to 51,000 otherwise preventable deaths. [9:52] And so these are all the policies of this administration. [9:56] And they are all connected, as we saw in very clear relief from that quote that Trump said [10:04] the other week. [10:05] And and people are feeling this also. [10:09] There is a another government, federal government health insurance program. [10:14] The Affordable Care Act was has also been cut in the last year by this administration. [10:20] People now have to pay more for their own health insurance through that program. [10:24] And more than half of the people who are getting insurance through that program now say that [10:29] they are having to cut back on other household expenses, including food, in order to afford [10:34] that health insurance. [10:35] So people in the United States really are feeling it themselves. [10:39] And we just want people to know that it's not just them. [10:41] It's a very widespread problem. [10:43] Lindsay, I know you started off as an organizer in Planned Parenthood, which is the single [10:48] largest provider of reproductive health services and the largest single provider of abortions [10:53] in the United States. [10:54] How have these priorities in the budget impacted access to reproductive care in the United States? [10:59] Well, I don't get that question very often, but it's yes, those are my roots are in [11:03] reproductive health care. [11:05] So this administration has, of course, been completely disastrous for reproductive health [11:09] care in the United States and around the world. [11:12] We have President Trump has appointed Supreme Court justices who reversed the Roe v. Wade [11:17] decision that kept abortion illegal for all 50 states in the United States. [11:22] That is now no longer the case. [11:25] And then around the world, the Trump administration has also this is something where United States [11:30] administrations play tug of war back and forth about policies and whether they'll allow [11:35] international aid to go to reproductive health care organizations in other parts of the world. [11:40] And the Trump administration has brought it back to where, in addition to all the international [11:45] aid that they're cutting off for just so many reasons and the fact that they don't believe [11:49] in supporting and investing in the rest of the world, they have cut back specifically reproductive [11:55] health care because they want to make sure that they're not supporting any abortion care [11:59] or anywhere in the world. [12:01] And so it's hit people here in the United States very hard and it's hit people around [12:05] the world probably even harder. [12:07] We'll have more with Lindsey after a break. [12:13] So Lindsey, let's talk a little bit more about the defense budget. [12:16] You warned that Donald Trump and GOP leaders want to raise the national defense budget about [12:21] 42% to about $1.5 trillion in a single year. [12:26] Meanwhile, some estimates warned that the war in Iran was costing about a half a billion [12:31] dollars per day. [12:33] I mean, the statistics vary, but I've seen that. [12:36] Yes. [12:37] You also note that roughly half of Pentagon spending goes to corporate contractors and [12:43] that the top five contractors pay their CEOs tens of millions of dollars each year. [12:47] I wonder how you think that the concentration of public money into private hands can help [12:54] produce a budget that looks like this. [12:56] Well, there are so many ways. [12:59] I mean, what we know is we had some statistics during the first Trump administration where we [13:05] could see that the CEOs of the major military contractors were visiting the White House often. [13:12] So when you think about how the closeness of that relationship and that's somewhat typical [13:18] for the for the United States. [13:20] Some people have even said things like, you know, that the CEO of Lockheed Martin, which [13:24] is the top U.S. military contractor, should be a cabinet position for the for the United States [13:30] because the relationship is so close between the president and this defense secretary and [13:36] this company. [13:37] So it's it's hard to overstate how enmeshed it is. [13:41] But of course, there are also campaign contributions where corporations can give money to political [13:47] campaigns through all sorts of different sort of dark money means and other avenues that [13:52] are hard to trace. [13:54] There are lobbying contributions. [13:57] And so this is something that, you know, as the peace activist community in the United [14:01] States struggles with, is that the military contractors have lobbyists who were walking [14:06] the halls of Congress every day, talking to members of Congress, telling them why they [14:11] need to support weapons programs. [14:14] And there are there is no equivalent lobbying force for peace or for or for demilitarism. [14:20] So this is this is a real struggle in the United States. [14:23] And it's another important way where, you know, you have someone walking into a congressional [14:27] office telling them about the jobs they create, for example, in their districts. [14:31] And this is another sort of myth in the United States that weapons production is some huge [14:37] creation job creator. [14:40] And that's why members of Congress have to support it. [14:42] So that's an argument that the industry and the corporations make very frequently. [14:47] And it's just not true, especially not in the way that it used to be. [14:51] There is a study by the defense industry itself that found that whereas there used to be in [14:56] the 1980s, three million jobs in these contractors in the United States, there are now only a million. [15:03] So that's not very many for a country as big as the United States, where we have a population [15:08] of about 350 million people. [15:11] And they're still using that argument to go to Congress and say, here's why you have to support, [15:17] like you said, this trillion dollar and now they are asking for one point five trillion [15:21] dollar war budget. [15:23] Yeah, I think people in the rest of the world would be shocked if they could see what this [15:28] process looks like up close. [15:29] We've people in the United States have internalized it. [15:33] But in other parts of the world, it's just straight up bribery. [15:36] They call it lobbying. [15:39] Yes. [15:40] I do want to we're a little short on time. [15:42] I do want to ask you about ICE, if I could, your report details how about 170 billion dollars [15:48] were added to mass deportation machine that we're seeing in more than doubles funding for [15:53] ICE and Customs and Border Protection since 2024. [15:58] That includes 45 billion dollars for expanded immigrant detention. [16:02] Do you view this as as part of the same sort of moral and fiscal story as tax cuts for the [16:08] wealthy and increased war spending? [16:09] I do view it as part of the same story. [16:12] I view it as part of the story that says that they are going to concentrate wealth and [16:17] power in the hands of the people who are their chosen few. [16:21] And I think there's one really clear illustration of this for the Trump administration is the [16:27] few refugees who they are allowing into the United States. [16:31] You know, there's mass deportation for most undocumented people in this country. [16:36] And that is hitting black and brown communities really hard because the administration is not [16:42] able to just check people's immigration status. [16:44] And so they're targeting anyone who looks like they might be an undocumented immigrant, [16:49] which just means people with darker skin. [16:52] But the one group of refugees that they have welcomed in are white Afrikaners from South Africa. [16:59] And so that is that is just an astounding illustration of what the real reasons behind this are. [17:06] It's a combination of white supremacist ideology that's held by some of the top people in this [17:12] administration and a focus on state violence that I think is what you see in sort of the investment [17:19] in war and the investment in mass deportations, where it's the idea that the state can use violent [17:25] means to control whatever it wants, whatever the president wants. [17:29] Yeah. And it's worth pointing out that Donald Trump's political project is called Make America Great [17:34] Again. We don't know when that was specifically. We assume it was in the 50s and 60s. And marginal [17:40] tax rates were at 90 percent when America was great previously. Worth pointing out. [17:46] Yes, indeed. Yes. Always worth pointing out. OK, Lindsay, last question. It is easy to get [17:51] overwhelmed by the numbers, but this report makes it makes the case that underneath the spreadsheets, [17:56] this is about political choices, not inevitabilities. Right. What would you have to change in terms of [18:04] voter expectations and party politics, particularly on the Republican side for for tax day debates to [18:11] finally shift away from the kind of how do we cut mindset to the how do we tax fairly? [18:17] And spend on what's best for the public good. Yeah. So obviously, the United States is has a big [18:24] partisanship problem right now where many Republicans are sort of in a whatever Trump says [18:31] religious moment, if you will. I think the thing, though, is that a lot of Americans are more united [18:38] around these ideas than than the current common story would lead you to believe. For example, I mentioned [18:45] earlier that there's a poll that showed that 70 percent of people in the United States would be [18:51] against cutting health care in order to pay for the war on Iran. So there's a lot more agreement [18:59] on some of these things than the current political climate would lead you to believe. What I think we [19:05] need is we need, first of all, probably candidates who are able to talk plainly and clearly about these [19:12] things. And, you know, the Democratic Party has just not been strong on that. And they're the only [19:19] major party alternative to the to the Republican Party. So we need more candidates who can speak more [19:26] clearly about these things, because that is when people listen the most. But we also need a lot of popular [19:30] education, which is what we do so that people can understand more about what is happening, more about what this [19:38] war on Iran means for them, how it's connected to what they might be experiencing in terms of paying [19:43] more at the gas pump or paying more for health insurance and why those things are connected. [19:50] But then we need to give people real alternatives of policies and candidates to support that really [19:56] change that dynamic. And I think that has been a weakness in the United States that we haven't had [20:01] adequate alternatives. [20:03] Okay. Lindsay, thank you for coming on The Take today. [20:07] Thanks for having me.