How is Israel replicating its Gaza tactics in Lebanon? — Inside Story

[0:00] Widespread destruction of Israel, of houses and civilian facilities in Lebanon, a fifth of the population out of their homes. [0:09] Israel's defence minister says tactics used in Gaza are being replicated in Lebanon. [0:14] So what are the similarities? [0:17] This is Inside Story. [0:34] Hello again, I'm James Bayes. [0:36] While the world's attention has been focused on Iran, Israel's been attacking Lebanon in a simultaneous war with catastrophic impact on its people. [0:46] Entire villages and towns wiped out, critical facilities targeted and destroyed, land poisoned, journalists and medical workers killed, hospitals bombed. [0:56] More than 1.2 million people have been forced from their homes with the UN warning of a looming food crisis. [1:03] The parallels with Gaza, where Israel's accused of genocide, are clear for anyone watching. [1:09] And Israel's making no attempt to hide the link. [1:12] Its defence minister proclaiming tactics from Gaza are being replicated in Lebanon. [1:17] New drone tactics from Hezbollah, however, are hitting Israeli targets. [1:21] So what are the similarities and the consequences for the civilian population? [1:25] Has Gaza become Israel's template for war? [1:28] We'll discuss this in a moment with our guests, but first this report from Nagas Mobylegi. [1:34] Gaza, a live stream genocide that's killed more than 72,000 Palestinians since October 2023. [1:46] Israel has systematically destroyed the Strip. [1:50] It says it's now using the same strategy in Lebanon. [1:54] All houses and villages near the border in Lebanon will be destroyed, according to the model of Rafa and Beit Hanoun in Gaza, to remove once and for all the threats near the border to northern residents. [2:07] In Lebanon, more than 2,500 people have been killed since Israel launched the latest offensive on the 2nd of March. [2:18] 1.2 million people, that's more than one in five residents, have been displaced. [2:23] In just a few weeks of fighting, areas making up around 14% of Lebanon's territory have been subjected to Israeli military orders, forcing people from their homes. [2:35] Israeli threats, posted online, nearly identical to the ones given in Gaza, where 90% of the population is now displaced. [2:43] They take shelter in schools and hospitals, but those are targeted too. [2:49] The UN says Gaza's education sector has been systematically devastated by Israel. [2:55] Similar tactics in Lebanon. [2:59] This strike on a university in Beirut in March killed two academics. [3:04] When emergency services arrive on the scenes of Israeli attacks, they too are targeted. [3:11] In Gaza, so-called double-tap attacks were frequent, a second strike killing those coming to the aid of victims of the first. [3:20] That's been seen in Lebanon too. [3:22] Ambulance workers say there was a triple attack in mid-April, which killed four paramedics and wounded six. [3:30] On Wednesday, the UN stressed once again, these types of attacks are illegal. [3:37] According to WHO, since the start of the conflict, the number of attacks on health care has climbed to 149, with 100 deaths and 233 injured. [3:49] Attacks on civilians and civilian infrastructure and health workers are not only unacceptable, they are against international humanitarian law, as we keep saying. [4:04] Israel's so-called Dahir doctrine, using overwhelming force against civilian infrastructure, was applied relentlessly as a strategy in Gaza. [4:12] In Gaza, that name comes from a Beirut suburb, heavily bombed by Israel in 2006, now it's being used again in Lebanon. [4:22] Despite supposed ceasefires in both places, the violence drags on. [4:27] Palestinians and Lebanese continue to bury their loved ones, whether at this funeral of a mother and daughter killed in an Israeli strike in Lebanon on Wednesday, [4:37] or as a Palestinian mother buries her child killed in an attack in Gaza just a few hours before. [4:46] Nagus Mabaleri, Al Jazeera, Inside Story. [4:49] Well, before we get to our panel of guests who are going to discuss all of this, let's speak to Yasmin Chawaf. [4:56] She's Global Protection Advocacy Coordinator at Oxfam. [5:01] She joins us from Beirut. [5:02] I want from you, Yasmin, the situation on the ground right now. [5:07] How bad is it? [5:10] The situation is very bad today in Lebanon. [5:14] Despite having announced a ceasefire, despite the decreased media attention on Lebanon, [5:21] this does not mean that the situation has drastically improved, especially in the south of Lebanon. [5:30] The situation is dire for those who have been displaced and who are today in displacement, [5:37] as well as to those who remain trapped in their villages and areas, [5:43] and to those who have returned upon the announcement of the ceasefire, [5:49] as well as those who have then again been displaced when they discovered that the ceasefire was basically a no ceasefire. [5:57] In the humanitarian community, there are different organisations and agencies that play different roles. [6:03] Now, I've been in the field before with Oxfam, [6:06] and one of the things that you do in particular is look at water and water resources. [6:13] So tell me about that, because Israel has been, I think, deliberately targeting water infrastructure. [6:21] Exactly. [6:22] And this is one of the things that we have seen, if you want, out of what we call today the Gaza playbook. [6:29] So it is targeting not only water infrastructure, but civilian infrastructure that renders life livable for civilians. [6:39] In Lebanon, Oxfam has seen that there are water sources that have been targeted, [6:46] that have been deliberately destroyed, as well as projects that we have worked on as Oxfam, [6:54] either that have been damaged, or that today we do not have the necessary access to assess their status. [7:02] And we have seen this in Gaza before, and we continue to see it today with the deliberate deprivation of people [7:12] from accessing clean water and continuous water supply. [7:20] And to state the obvious, one needs water to survive. [7:23] So attacking water infrastructure, that is, in your view, a war crime? [7:31] There have been many reports and documented incidents that could amount to war crime, [7:39] whether we are talking in Lebanon or in Gaza. [7:43] In Gaza, there have been documented war crimes. [7:46] There are legal procedures and proceedings happening, [7:51] including in the ICJ and with the ICC, the International Criminal Court. [7:58] And in Lebanon today, we are seeing that there are risks or incidents and attacks that could amount to war crimes. [8:09] And in general, we are speaking today about a sheer scale of violations of international humanitarian law, [8:20] of attacks on civilians. [8:22] And to be very clear, most of these are going maybe not necessarily only unnoticed, [8:30] but it has become normalized. [8:32] So there is no consequence to the violation of international humanitarian law today in Gaza and in Lebanon. [8:42] And Israel continues to enjoy complete impunity to what it is doing and the violations of international humanitarian law. [8:56] As you say, so much of this seems so similar from Gaza. [9:02] The forced evacuation orders, the huge number of people, over a million, that have had to flee their homes, [9:08] the deliberate destruction of people's homes, attacks on health workers and health facilities, [9:14] schools being used as shelters, attacks on journalists and rescue workers. [9:20] They're following the Gaza playbook. [9:22] What do you think Israel is trying to do here? [9:25] Well, this is a question you have to ask to the Israelis. [9:30] What I can tell you for sure is that from what we have documented and have seen in Gaza happen, [9:37] because we have staff, we have partners, we are working in Gaza and have been talking about the situation in Gaza [9:48] for since October 2023. [9:52] The same is happening today in Lebanon, and we have seen, most importantly, the impact on civilians. [10:01] Yasmin Chowaf from Oxfam, thank you very much for joining us. [10:08] So let's discuss all of this further with our panel of guests who are joining us today on Inside Story. [10:14] Also in Beirut, we have Ramzi Kais, Lebanon researcher at Human Rights Watch. [10:19] In Paris, Elijah Magnier, he's specialist in Middle East wars and regional military dynamics. [10:25] And in Athens, Nicholas Ngo, editor-in-chief of MiddleEastWire.com, a Beirut-based news service. [10:32] Thank you all for joining us. [10:34] Let me start with you, Ramzi. [10:36] We are supposed soon, in the next couple of days, to come up to the two-week mark of the ceasefire. [10:43] But there isn't really a ceasefire, is there? [10:48] There isn't in the sense that just today, a few minutes ago, [10:53] the Lebanese people received the second round of displacement orders issued by Israel's military spokesperson just for today. [11:00] Over 20 towns and villages were included in this. [11:03] There are continued attacks in southern Lebanon, [11:07] continued reports of demolitions happening across the border and razing with civilian objects. [11:12] And this pattern, I think, very much mirrors what we saw since November 2024, [11:17] the ceasefire then until March, where there were continuous near-daily attacks in Lebanon. [11:23] So it's a ceasefire in name only. [11:25] Elijah, I mean, the Israelis had something they called the Dahir Doctrine. [11:32] So it came from Lebanon, from the southern suburbs of Beirut in previous wars, flattening buildings there. [11:40] They then seem to have exported that to Gaza in a horrific manner. [11:45] And now it seems they're using Gaza as a template for what they're doing in Lebanon. [11:51] Would you agree? [11:54] Yes, that is correct. [11:55] This is what the Israeli defense minister, Israel Katz, told us that in Lebanon, [12:02] they will apply the Rafah Doctrine, which means flattening everything, [12:08] destroying homes, schools, universities, hospitals, everything that they can see [12:16] and leave nothing for the people not to know the previous topography of the land. [12:24] So they think they will not allow anyone to return. [12:29] And this is what the Israelis are doing because they are unaccountable [12:34] and because they think they can get away with it, having the blessing of the United States of America, [12:41] exactly what they have done in Gaza, and nobody rendered them accountable for what they have done. [12:48] Nicholas, as you heard Elijah there say, the defense minister, Israel Katz, [12:54] has admitted that they are copying what they did in Rafah. [12:57] He said the demolition of Lebanese border villages was in accordance with the model used in Rafah and Beit Hanoun in Gaza. [13:06] I found an interesting quote too, going right back to 2009, from someone called Daniel Reisner, [13:12] who was the former head of the Israeli army's international law division. [13:17] Let me read this to you. [13:18] If you do something for long enough, the world will accept it. [13:22] International law progresses through violations. [13:26] Well, they certainly proved to be correct in the last few years. [13:32] We really need to see the Dahyeh Doctrine, which came after the 2006 Israel-Lebanon war, [13:38] as culminating in the Gaza genocide. [13:41] And I think it's important, James, I mean, I know you were reporting a long time on this story, [13:45] but for others, the Dahyeh Gaza Doctrine is not simply about flattening building and structures [13:51] and civilian power plants and infrastructure. [13:53] It has a critical provision which regards supportive populations as legitimate military targets. [14:01] If you're in a supportive population area, you are a legitimate military target. [14:06] Now, in 2009, the Israelis were a bit more concerned to bring this out into the open. [14:11] It was talked about in some Israeli think tanks. [14:13] There was various discussions about it. [14:16] There was some literature about it, but it wasn't really sharpened to the degree [14:19] that we now see openly by Israeli leaders and by Israeli commanders, [14:24] which is to say that the Dahyeh Gaza Doctrine is about also eliminating populations. [14:30] And here we see, I think, some differences that are important for all of us to consider [14:35] between what Israel has done and is doing in Gaza specifically [14:39] and what it would like to do and what it's able to do in Lebanon. [14:44] And there are at least three differences. [14:46] One is that Gaza and expelling the population of Palestinians there is a top priority for the Israeli leadership [14:54] and the Israeli body politic, really. [14:57] Expelling the population of South Lebanon or Lebanese is much lower down on the rung of goals, let's say. [15:03] The second reason I think that we have to consider is the formidable military opposition, [15:11] which Hezbollah is able to present in South Lebanon, [15:14] which Hamas has not been able, after several years of war and given its limitations, [15:19] was never able to project, actually. [15:21] And this is really important because this fundamentally limits the scope of what the Israelis can do [15:27] based on what they would like to do religiously, ideologically, or whatever. [15:32] The reality is that in the first few weeks of the latest upsurge in this conflict, [15:38] the Israelis made it seem as if all of South Lebanon has to evacuate and get out [15:42] and that they were going to push through, basically. [15:45] Let's remember that in 1982, the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, [15:48] it took them a mere three days to defeat the Palestinian Liberation Organization [15:52] and reach and besiege Beirut for several weeks in a murderous besiegement campaign. [15:57] They are not able to do that right now because of the military opposition of Hezbollah, [16:01] which is important to consider no matter what you think of Hezbollah, [16:05] because it is fundamentally limiting the Israeli actions on the ground right now. [16:09] And the third reason, the last one, very important, Lebanon is a divided state. [16:14] The Israeli leadership and Netanyahu has created a political stir in Lebanon [16:19] by saying publicly that the Lebanese president and the Lebanese leadership [16:23] agrees with its full freedom of action to bomb wherever it wants in Lebanon. [16:27] We'll leave aside that argument, but the greater point is that Israel is limited in Lebanon, [16:33] unlike in Gaza, because it is a divided state. [16:36] And there is hope among the Israelis and the Trump administration [16:38] that at least some of the Lebanese can be turned on Hezbollah [16:42] and its supportive populations in a civil war move [16:46] that would greatly increase the Israeli ability to make gains on the ground, [16:51] gains that ideologically, historically, and religiously, [16:54] they would very much like to make and have wanted to make for decades, [16:58] mainly water resources, land, and let's not forget offshore energy as well, offshore of Lebanon. [17:04] So these are some different factors between what's happened and happening in Gaza [17:08] and what we're seeing right now in Lebanon on the ground, [17:11] no matter how tragic it may be. [17:14] Ramzi, let me pick up one of those points that Nicholas made there, [17:17] which is about Hezbollah and the fact Hezbollah is responding. [17:21] What is interesting here is the last ceasefire in November 2024, [17:26] almost the same identical language surrounded the ceasefire. [17:30] And then Hezbollah didn't really respond, [17:33] despite Israel launching 12,000 strikes in a year. [17:37] Why is it so different this time? [17:43] I'd like to first start by commenting on the similarities, [17:47] not just during the ceasefire, but also before. [17:49] And I know that we're comparing Lebanon to Gaza, [17:52] and I think there's a point there, [17:55] and there's a point also in saying that actually what we're seeing in Lebanon is not new. [17:58] We've seen this in the previous war. [18:00] We've seen the repeated attacks that have targeted journalists, [18:04] that have targeted medical workers, that have targeted peacekeepers. [18:07] We've seen demolitions happen in the past round of escalation, [18:12] where entire villages were demolished or razed using heavy machinery or hand-placed explosive. [18:17] And we saw after the ceasefire went, in fact, in November 2024, [18:22] that there were continued demolition and continued razing. [18:26] And even before this recent escalation in March 2, [18:30] there had been tens of thousands of people, [18:32] 64,000 people that have still been displaced [18:35] and unable to return to their villages and towns on the border, [18:39] largely as a result of the vast destruction, [18:42] not just of their homes, but of electricity and water infrastructure, [18:46] but also because they say they've been prevented from returning. [18:49] When they do show up, quadcopter drones have been showing up, [18:52] dropping stun grenades, preventing them from returning. [18:55] And I think we're seeing these similar patterns now, [18:59] because when they did take place in Gaza, [19:01] and then when they did take place in Lebanon, [19:03] we saw complete silence from people that could have leveraged [19:06] or had leverage or pressure on Israel. [19:08] States like the US, like the UK, like the EU, [19:10] that could have suspended arms sales, armed transit, and military assistance, [19:14] that could have placed targeted sanctions on officials [19:17] credibly implicated in abusers. [19:19] The EU could have suspended the trade pillar of its association agreement with Israel, [19:23] but they chose not to. [19:24] And they remained silent and did not put any pressure on Israel. [19:28] And so what Israel could do in Gaza, [19:30] what Israel could do in Lebanon in November 2024, [19:33] it could now do in Lebanon. [19:35] And according to, you know, Israel, [19:37] cats to do it in an accelerated fashion, [19:39] because he ordered Israeli troops to accelerate the destruction of homes along the border. [19:43] And this is the result of the silence that we're seeing. [19:47] In this round of escalation, over 2,500 people have been killed, [19:52] but this includes over 181 children, 286 women, 103 medical workers, [19:57] almost one in five of those. [19:59] If I can bring in Elijah on Hezbollah's tactics, [20:03] because they are using new tactics this time. [20:07] And interestingly, we've heard about these fiber optic cable drones. [20:12] That's something they've learned from the war in Ukraine. [20:17] Indeed, yes. [20:18] It was first introduced by the Russians [20:20] and then developed by the Ukrainians to a larger distance. [20:26] It went from 10 kilometers to 40 kilometers range of the drone. [20:30] The reason why is the resistance normally develop itself [20:36] and adapt according to the capacity and the capability of the enemy. [20:42] In this case, in the south of Lebanon, [20:44] the Israelis are very much developed in advanced technology, [20:48] and they can jam drones or any electronic warhead [20:53] that is directed toward their forces, [20:55] but with this kind of drone, [20:57] there is a wire that goes with the drone [21:01] and can reach more or less 10 kilometers, [21:04] the one that we have seen, [21:06] and that can not be intercepted by the Israelis [21:10] unless they can see it visibly, [21:13] and then they shoot it down with a simple shotgun or a rifle. [21:18] So that is much more complicated [21:20] and is creating serious damage to the deployment [21:25] of the occupation forces on the ground [21:28] because they have nothing to protect themselves [21:31] like the Ukrainians have developed in their cities [21:34] to prevent the use of this kind of drone [21:39] that is really extremely difficult to intercept. [21:42] And by adapting to the enemy capability, [21:46] it shows that Hezbollah is ready for a war of attrition [21:51] against the Israelis, [21:53] particularly when they are dealing with five divisions. [21:56] We're talking about 70,000 to 80,000 troops [21:59] on a very vast land, [22:01] nothing to compare with Gaza [22:03] because the topography is very different. [22:06] So behind every rock, every tree, every valley, [22:10] there can be ambushes. [22:12] And this is what the Israelis are finding difficult, [22:16] even if they declared a zone [22:18] that they call buffer zone of 55 villages. [22:23] In fact, they do not even control 17, [22:26] even if they have heavy presence in 17 villages, [22:30] but they are attacked even if these 17 villages [22:33] and beyond the borders. [22:35] So yes, the Israelis are not having a promenade [22:39] in the south of Lebanon. [22:40] Okay, Nicholas, [22:42] what do we think Israel is actually trying to achieve? [22:46] I mean, I've followed the US and the UK [22:51] and others in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, [22:53] and you could be very critical of what they did, [22:55] but there used to be a strategy of clear, hold, build. [22:58] Well, here it's destroy, destroy, destroy. [23:02] What is Israel trying to achieve? [23:04] Is this all about a greater Israel [23:06] and expanding Israel's territory? [23:09] Because some in Israel want that. [23:11] Or is it just about making life completely unlivable [23:15] for these communities, [23:16] making it where the people who live in southern Lebanon, [23:19] for example, have no control of their life or their destiny? [23:22] It can be these two things together, right? [23:26] There is a clear historical record, [23:29] and there is a current record on Israeli top leaders [23:32] about a desire and a program to expand the borders of Israel, [23:37] borders which they don't actually define themselves. [23:39] But we see this certainly in southern Syria, [23:42] and we see this in Lebanon as well. [23:44] What they would like to do and what plans they would like to put in place [23:49] are limited by the opposition that they face in the field diplomatically [23:54] and back home within Israel and their own limitations, material limitations. [24:00] And that's where I think we go to the second part of the question, [24:03] which is the strategy appears now, in the short term at least, [24:08] to try to create a wasteland, a killing zone. [24:11] Again, the Israelis have long dispensed with any care [24:14] for international humanitarian law, et cetera. [24:16] They have their own definition. [24:17] They don't care. [24:18] They have carte blanche from the Americans. [24:20] Okay. [24:20] So the idea is to create this kind of killing zone. [24:23] The fundamental problem has been, [24:25] and this is what analysts have been, you know, [24:27] warning the Israelis about time and time again, [24:29] when they keep on invading and occupying or invading and destroying, [24:33] they create more formidable enemies. [24:36] Time and time again. [24:36] And now it turns out that a 10-kilometer buffer zone, [24:40] as Elijah just pointed out, [24:41] is not really going to be very effective, [24:44] not even to protect Israeli troops at their border, [24:47] but much less the kind of hinterlands and border communities [24:50] or deep into Israel because of technological advances. [24:54] So you can launch one of these FPV drones from 30 miles, 40 miles, et cetera. [25:00] So their plan to just kind of hopefully take over all of South Lebanon, [25:06] water resources, land, offshore energy, is limited by facts on the ground. [25:10] And now they're pulling up against another fact, [25:12] which they apparently did not prepare well for, [25:15] which is the way in which drone warfare has changed facts, [25:18] battlefield facts on the ground. [25:20] And now the 10-kilometer buffer zone is not good enough. [25:23] Therein lies the problem, [25:24] which is that the Israeli defense forces on the ground, [25:27] they are superior in the air, superior on technology. [25:30] However, on the ground, the IDF is regarded fairly poorly [25:34] by people that know about military affairs, et cetera. [25:37] They have a very poor track record of actually being able to occupy, [25:42] hold, and advance deep into enemy territory. [25:46] So this leaves, I think, where we are right now, [25:48] which is the current strategy, the short-term one, [25:51] of this buffer zone is not going to work, [25:53] and it certainly won't work in the coming weeks, months, and years, [25:56] nor will their greater Israel project work [25:59] because of significant limitations, [26:01] mainly presented by Lebanese and Hezbollah in particular. [26:04] But then there's the third aspect, [26:06] which is the great question in the region, [26:08] which is the return to a much more active Iran war. [26:12] And therein, I think, lies most of the bets, [26:15] which is to say that if you think, [26:17] and if the Israelis think, [26:18] that Trump and the Americans, the Israelis, [26:20] and others potentially are going to reignite this war [26:23] that's in a kind of simmer state, [26:25] then really the whole battlefield changes in South Lebanon, [26:29] in Syria, perhaps elsewhere, in Yemen, [26:33] and certainly in the Gulf, in Iraq, and in Iran. [26:35] I think ultimately that's where they're putting [26:38] their strategic apples, in that basket. [26:40] Okay. [26:41] Because the other basket of greater Israel doesn't work. [26:43] Let me bring in, Ramzi, at the end, [26:45] on the international legality point of all of this, [26:50] because it is a dreadful scenario [26:52] that's being painted by Nicholas, [26:54] and yet the world is just watching. [26:57] This is a breach of international law, [26:59] international criminal court, [27:00] international court of justice. [27:01] The US doesn't care about those. [27:03] The US ambassador to Israel, Mick Huckabee, [27:06] has said it wants to neuter both those institutions. [27:09] What is Human Rights Watch's view [27:11] about what other countries should be doing right now? [27:14] Yeah, let me just start by saying that since October 2023, [27:19] we've documented repeated violations of the laws of war [27:22] and war crimes committed in Lebanon, [27:23] deliberate attacks on civilians, including journalists, [27:26] medics, peacekeepers, health workers, [27:30] attacks on civilian objects, [27:31] including in the ceasefire period, right, [27:33] on reconstruction equipment, [27:34] and when the Israeli military occupied the towns. [27:37] They were in widespread use of white phosphorus, [27:39] including unlawfully. [27:40] We've been repeatedly calling on states [27:42] to immediately suspend arms sales, [27:44] military assistance, and arms transit to Israel [27:46] to place targeted sanctions on individual [27:48] credibly implicated in abuses, [27:50] and, for example, the EU, [27:52] to suspend the trade pillar of its association agreement. [27:54] We're also calling on the Lebanese government, [27:56] on Lebanon's government, [27:57] to give jurisdiction to the ICC, [27:59] to the International Criminal Court, [28:00] to investigate and prosecute crimes [28:02] committed on Lebanese territory since October 2023. [28:05] Currently, the ICC does not have jurisdiction over Lebanon [28:08] because neither Lebanon or Israel [28:10] are parties to the Rome statute. [28:12] So the Lebanese government has tools that it can use [28:15] to push for accountability, [28:17] but so far it has not, [28:19] and it should. [28:20] In light of the continued violations [28:22] that are happening, [28:23] the continued destruction of border villages, [28:24] just two days ago, [28:25] three civil defence workers [28:26] dispatched to a strike site were killed, [28:29] and we were in the south last week [28:31] spending our time with paramedics, [28:32] and they were telling us [28:33] every time that they're showing up to strike sites, [28:37] they're putting themselves at risk [28:38] because they're being struck [28:39] when they are conducting relief efforts, [28:41] with over 103 of them killed. [28:43] Ramzi Kais, Elijah Magnea, and Nicholas Ngo, [28:47] thank you for joining us on Insight Story. [28:49] We've been talking about Lebanon [28:51] and a bit about Gaza today. [28:53] In both places, [28:54] our teams are reporting the very latest, [28:56] and for more context and analysis, [28:58] why not check out aljazeera.com. [29:00] Your views are welcome too. [29:02] Post them on our Facebook page. [29:03] That's facebook.com forward slash [29:05] AJ Inside Story, [29:07] or on X, [29:08] go to at AJ Inside Story. [29:10] From me, James Bayes, [29:11] and all the team, [29:12] that's it for now. [29:13] But Al Jazeera's coverage never stops. [29:15] Stay tuned for an update coming up next.