Hegseth fires 3 top generals as Iran war continues

[0:00] Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth fired the U.S. Army Chief of Staff General Randy George and two [0:06] other top Army generals on Thursday. Dismissals have come as the U.S. appears poised to intensify [0:11] strikes and the Pentagon is weighing a potential ground invasion in Iran. In a post, Chief Pentagon [0:17] Spokesman Sean Parnell framed General George's firing as a retirement effective immediately. [0:23] A U.S. official told CNN that senior Army leadership had been caught off guard. Quote, [0:27] it doesn't feel like a very thought out decision, unquote. Now, I have been personally covering [0:32] General Randy George's career for about 15 years. I wrote a book in 2012 about the ill-fated combat [0:38] outpost heating, which had been in 2006 placed in a dangerous position in Afghanistan. Then Colonel [0:44] Randy George and his Lieutenant Colonel Brad Brown tried to shut down that outpost in 2008 because [0:51] of the precarious position it was in, although their warnings were not heeded with any urgency. [0:57] And then Cop Keating was devastatingly attacked in 2009. Those who know General Randy George [1:02] consider him to be well-respected, smart, strategic, someone who acts with the best [1:06] interests of his service members and the United States at the top of his mind. [1:11] His dismissal, along with that of Chief of Chaplains Major General William Green Jr. [1:16] and Commander of Army Transformation and Training Command General David [1:19] Houdini are just the latest in a string of abrupt firings that Hegseth has carried out [1:25] inside the Pentagon since he took office. [1:27] Hegseth has fired more than a dozen senior military officers over the last year. In fact, he's almost [1:32] completely remade the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Just two officials remained from before President Trump [1:37] took office, Marine Corps Commandant General Eric Smith and Chief of Space Operations General [1:42] B. Chance Saltzman. Now, you might have noticed if you look at that photo, Hegseth's version of [1:46] the Joint Chiefs, those are entirely white men, despite the fact that as of 2024, nearly 33% of [1:54] active duty service members are of color. [1:57] Hegseth made it quite clear that that type of representation in the top ranks [2:02] does not matter to him. [2:04] The era of DEI is gone at the Defense Department, and we need the best and brightest. [2:12] Physical standards must be high and gender neutral. If women can make it, excellent. If not, [2:20] it is what it is. [2:21] We're reviving the warrior ethos. We're eliminating the distractions and the debris. No more DEI. [2:29] Two of the first leaders Hegseth let go were former [2:32] Joint Chiefs Chair General C.Q. Brown, the second black officer to hold that post, [2:36] and Chief of Naval Operations Lisa Franchetti, the first woman to lead the U.S. Navy. Just last week, [2:42] the New York Times reported that in an extraordinarily rare move, Hegseth was [2:45] actively blocking the promotions of four Army officers. Officials saying two of the officers [2:51] are black, two of them are women. Parnell defended the promotion process to the New York Times as [2:57] apolitical and unbiased, unquote. The New York Times reports that Army Secretary Dan Driscoll [3:02] repeatedly refused to let Hegseth go. Hegseth said, [3:03] strike those officers' names from the promotion list. Officials told the Times that Driscoll took [3:08] heat from Hegseth's Chief of Staff, the controversial Ricky Berea, for promoting [3:12] Major General Antoinette Gant to command the Military District of Washington. The Times [3:17] reporting, quote, Mr. Berea told Mr. Driscoll that President Trump would not want to stand [3:22] next to a black female officer at military events, the official said, unquote. Berea denies that [3:30] story. Driscoll is someone Hegseth perceives, [3:33] as a threat, sources tell CNN. Unsurprisingly, he has worked closely with the now-retired [3:38] General Randy George. Hegseth's firing sprees, targeting women, targeting people of color, [3:43] or even just those he feels personally threatened by, this all comes as the U.S. [3:47] is weighing a further escalation in the already unpopular war in Iran, a ground invasion that [3:53] could potentially risk the lives of thousands of troops, which only 11 percent of U.S. adults [3:57] polled by CNN support. In that same poll, incidentally, Secretary Hegseth himself is [4:02] registering at a 35-year-old. Hegseth said, quote, [4:03] And now, without the guidance of tenured military officials who have served for decades honorably [4:13] that guidance, because Secretary Hegseth is either dismissed or hamstrung for reasons that remain [4:19] unclear to even top military officers, now the Trump administration is scrambling to prove to [4:23] the American people that there is a clear plan for the war in Iran and that it's worth the costs [4:27] of thousands of U.S. troops that they're putting in harm's way. Let's bring in Washington Post [4:32] reporter Dan Lamont, who covers the Pentagon and the military. [4:34] The military has broken a lot of these stories. Dan, can you put in perspective what the firing of [4:39] General Randy George will mean for the leadership of the Pentagon right now? [4:45] Yeah, I mean, Randy George has been in the Army for more than 40 years. I met him just maybe a [4:50] year or two after you did when he was a one-star general at the Army War College in Pennsylvania. [4:55] He's a thoughtful guy. I honestly have no idea which party he would belong to politically. [5:02] He kind of adheres to that old school nonpartisan [5:06] sort of idea that you would hope for in your generalist. [5:10] So a source familiar with what happened tells me that this was entirely, [5:13] the firing was entirely about these promotions and personnel matters. [5:19] And, you know, that's the reason. And that General George requested a meeting with Hegseth. [5:26] Hegseth refused to give it to him. And they fired him and leaked it to the media at the same time. [5:33] What's going on here? Why would Hegseth do this? [5:35] I think this is a significant, [5:40] final data point in sort of the Randy George Army saga under Hegseth. [5:45] I do think it's more complex than it being just about this event. [5:50] My own reporting would suggest that there's been sort of this churn on this, [5:54] how long will Randy George last, whether or not Randy George is acceptable to Hegseth, [5:59] really going back many months. And that Dan Driscoll, who had really kind of hit a good [6:05] teamwork kind of vibe with the general, [6:10] really did like him, really did want to keep him, and was increasingly frustrated trying to make the case to Secretary Hegseth. [6:18] What is, and what was the issue beyond the issue of personnel and promotions? What are the other issues? [6:25] I mean, I think some of it is the senior Pentagon staff right now, [6:31] there are people who literally are combing through biographies, combing through past testimony, [6:37] looking for what they said on diversity three, five, seven years ago. [6:42] And kind of building a dossier of sorts, trying to assemble who kind of fits the mold they're looking for. [6:49] Randy George had served under the Biden administration. [6:52] Randy George specifically had been a senior military assistant to Lloyd Austin, Biden's defense secretary. [6:58] And in testimony, when asked candid questions, he was in favor of diversity as part of a broader effort to have unit cohesion in the Army. [7:08] There are thousands of troops deployed to the Middle East right now, as we all wait to see if the U.S. is going to commence with a ground [7:13] operation in Iran. [7:14] Is there a sense that there's any confidence that there's a, well, give us the sense of confidence in Hegseth's leadership among those who are directly impacted in the U.S. [7:24] military? [7:27] I think it's pretty divided. [7:28] I don't think by any means it's universally against. [7:31] There are there are people who really kind of buy into his lethality rhetoric. [7:37] But there is significant concern that he's perhaps not fully appreciating the gravity of this situation, [7:44] particularly when you look at things. [7:45] Today, like the pilot down on the ground, this is something that was a foreseeable circumstance in a serious campaign with numerous aircraft up against the country that also has anti-aircraft. [7:58] Dan Lamothe of The Washington Post. [7:59] Thank you so much. Good to have you, sir. [8:01] There is rarely a good time to do a shakeup in the military. [8:05] And now Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has pushed out three generals during wartime. [8:10] First, U.S. Army Chief of Staff General Randy George was ordered to retire yesterday. [8:15] And now we've learned two more. [8:16] Four generals have been forced out. [8:18] Major General William Green Jr., who served as the chief of chaplains, and General David Hodney, commander of the Army Transformation Transformation and Training Command. [8:29] Now the military is missing critical combat experience as the war with Iran enters week six. [8:35] And joining me now, retired U.S. Army Lieutenant General Russell Honore. [8:39] General, good to see you again. [8:40] Let me ask you about these these three generals who have been pushed out by Secretary Hegseth. [8:46] Iran has not given an explicit reason for why they were fired. [8:51] What do you make of the dismissals? [8:55] Well, I've been quite a to traditional as well as decisions about the going into boots on the ground in Iran that the secretary, the chief of staff of the army would have had some major input on the boots on the ground decision when and where his job is to prepare. [9:16] His job is to prepare. [9:18] His job is to make sure all the air defenses that's been defending our allies are prepared. [9:26] And sometime I've served on the Joint Chiefs of Staff as a two star general. [9:31] The service chiefs do have a vote and try to influence the decisions made by the secretary of defense and by the president. [9:40] And I sense with this secretary of defense, this agreement means a dissent in that. [9:48] If there's not good discussion. [9:50] on what decision is going to be made and how they're going to do it, [9:53] then they serve no purpose. [9:55] I think what he's looking for is yes people, [9:58] loyalists who will do what he says and how he said do it [10:02] as opposed to following the customs and traditions of the military [10:06] that we want to have active debate before we do something. [10:09] I don't think he tolerates that. [10:11] If you go question him on why did you take those officers off the promotion list, [10:17] why are we changing the rank of the chaplains? [10:22] Maybe we ought to discuss this. [10:23] He does not tolerate any discussion. [10:25] He's got a big ego problem, [10:27] and that could have longstanding impact to our military. [10:31] General Russell Honore, thank you so much for being with me this evening. [10:35] Always good to see you. [10:38] Good evening. God bless America, and hopefully we can find that pilot. [10:41] Indeed. [10:42] Tonight, a shakeup at the Pentagon amid the ongoing war in Iran. [10:46] Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has fired [10:48] the Army's first-in-command, [10:48] top general, and a source tells CNN that Hegseth told Army Chief of Staff [10:53] General Randy George to retire immediately. [10:56] Two other senior leaders are also out. [10:58] Another source reveals that the decision to fire George was abrupt, [11:02] but expected. [11:03] George and Hegseth had been at odds for months [11:06] after Hegseth blocked the promotion of several Army officers, [11:10] including two women and two who are Black. [11:13] The source says that George demanded to see Hegseth about the issue, [11:16] but Hegseth denied the meeting. [11:18] The purge comes just days after President Trump signaled [11:22] that the U.S. would intensify strikes in Iran, [11:24] and as the Pentagon weighs a potential ground invasion. [11:27] Isaiah Martin is here with us. [11:30] It is even outside of all of the interpersonal drama, [11:33] of which there is plenty about this. [11:35] We're in the middle of a war, and to Army Chief of Staff [11:39] and to just be purging members of the top military brass [11:43] in this moment just seems unwise, [11:45] if not just a great gift to our enemies, [11:48] in terms of what they can say about us in this moment. [11:51] I would certainly think that the Iranian regime [11:56] couldn't have seen or gotten something better for them in this instance. [12:00] I think, ultimately, what's happening right now [12:02] is that the United States military is saying that we're completely, [12:06] have a leadership that is just simply... [12:09] we don't understand where we're going. [12:11] I'm particularly concerned about the fact that, you know, [12:14] the target seems to be moving consistently. [12:17] I know for this reason, we don't have that. [12:19] this. First, it said that there was not going to be a ground invasion. Then we see reports that [12:23] there could potentially be one. I think that's an issue. And the fact that we're seeing this [12:28] change in leadership right now, I think, is a sign that we don't really know what's going on. [12:32] Yeah, I think to provide some context for it, right, so the armed services, so the Army, [12:36] the Navy, the Air Force, their job is what we call man-trained and equipped. Their job is to [12:39] recruit the forces, train them, and make sure they're equipped to go to war. And then when we [12:42] fight a war, there's a four-star commander in charge of the combatant commands around the world [12:46] where we're basically broken up worldwide in geography, and there's a four-star responsible [12:50] for fighting in the different areas. So right now, the war is being fought by U.S. Central [12:53] Command. So there's a four-star commander, Admiral Brad Cooper, down in Tampa, who's responsible for [12:57] the fight. The Army's job is to transfer forces in accordance with the war plan if there's ground [13:01] troops or the Navy or the Air Force, regardless. The folks that were let go today or that were [13:06] fired, you had the chief of chaplains. There's been a problem where I think the secretary said [13:10] he had an issue with what he saw as secular humanism in the chaplains' core ranks. Do you [13:14] want to move back? And I just want to note that it's [13:16] apparently... [13:16] The first time that the chief of chaplains has ever been fired in the military. It's a four-year [13:22] term. [13:22] In the history of the military, it's the first time there. The chief of the training side, [13:25] he said, issues with training. And then him, General George, you just mentioned, [13:28] had an issue going back to that. But this is part of a series of firings that we've seen [13:32] across the administration. And I think, as you noted, just in terms of demographics, [13:36] women make up about 20% of the military, a little bit less than that, a little bit less than 8%. [13:40] About 17%. [13:41] 17%. And then the general officer ranks only about eight. But there's been a disproportionate [13:45] number of women. [13:46] Of women and minority general officers that were fired. And the argument's kind of coming back, [13:50] are they being fired because they're minorities, whether it's gender or ethnic or racial minorities, [13:55] or is this for another reason? I think the secretary's coming back and saying that some [13:58] people were put in positions they shouldn't have been in as a result of that. Other people are [14:01] saying, no, that they deserve to be there, and you're firing them as a result. And that's the [14:04] two sides of the argument people are making. [14:05] And General George, as well as the army secretary, so let's not forget the secretary of army is a [14:09] political appointee. So you have here the civilian and the military leadership of the army working [14:14] very closely together. And apparently, that was the first time that they were fired. And that's [14:16] part of Hegseth's problem, is that he had these two people working closely together. [14:20] Yeah, and just a little bit of context on that. I mean, CNN's reporting is that Randy George [14:24] was very close to Army Secretary Dan Driscoll. And Hegseth perceived Driscoll as a threat and, [14:31] at times, had a contentious relationship with him. Driscoll is also close to J.D. Vance, [14:35] has been mentioned as a possible replacement for Hegseth. Hegseth, since Signalgate, [14:43] since that chat where he was sharing classified information, [14:46] he seems to be on shaky ground, at least his perception of his job. And there's some reporting [14:52] that this is a result of that. I will say it so you don't have to. He is signaling that he is a [14:57] very insecure leader right now because he's getting rid of expertise surrounding him. General George [15:02] brought the army out of a massive recruitment crisis back in 2020, one of the worst we've [15:08] seen. He brought it back to full force. He moved to adapt and accommodate for the cheap drones, [15:14] an acquisition of cheap drones that we're seeing. [15:16] He was doing what he was supposed to do. Him and Secretary Driscoll also both spoke up about the fact [15:26] that people don't get on these lists for flags to become general officers without having exemplary [15:32] service. So I find it very interesting that somebody apolitical in the Army Chief of Staff, [15:38] somebody Republican appointed under Trump, that that is who the current Secretary of War is going [15:45] after. [15:46] Well, I think Pete Hegseth plays a huge role in recruitment. And I think that's a key reason why [15:51] you're seeing so many more people volunteering to serve. I think if you don't have trust in the [15:57] people around you, whether or not they come with expertise, and I have no doubt that they came with [16:01] expertise, but it's kind of useless if you don't actually trust it. We don't know really what was [16:06] behind this. Now, again, the reporting suggests that there's some conflict or tension between the [16:11] two from a personality perspective, perhaps. Maybe this was a case of align versus agree, [16:16] and they could do nothing. [16:16] I don't think so. I don't think so either. But when you're in a position like this, you have to make sure that you trust the people around you. When General McChrystal was fired during the Afghanistan war by President Obama because he downplayed the importance of, at the time, Vice President Joe Biden, while it was obviously a news story, I don't recall some of the same framing. Now, this could be a huge deal, right, at the end of this. We don't know. Right now, it doesn't appear to be a huge deal as far as readiness is concerned with what's going on in Iran right this moment. [16:43] But it does say a lot about Pete Hegseth, for sure. [16:46] Well, [16:46] without knowing his reasons. [16:48] Well, it says, well, I mean, you're saying we don't know, but there's actually a lot of reporting [16:51] that suggests that there are several reasons, including insecurity, as Nayyar pointed out. [16:59] But also, I mean, his hand or attempt to have a hand in personnel decisions has been something [17:06] that across the forces, not just in the army, has been a problem for senior leadership. He's [17:12] taking a list of potential one-star promotions [17:16] that, [17:17] doesn't get political, that is merit based. [17:20] That's based on a long process in the military, and he's striking individual names, which, [17:25] you know, according to the reporting, it's not even clear if it's legal for him to do that. [17:29] So there's the broader picture is of somebody who is a defense secretary who is dealing with both some [17:36] personality drama, but also has a leadership style that's resulting in mass firings. [17:41] I'm not sure mass firings are ever really a good sign. [17:44] The pattern that I see and it's not true. [17:47] every instance. But the pattern that I'm seeing is Secretary Hegseth resents dissent and disagreement [17:54] and he resents anyone who he believes is a holdover from the Biden administration. [18:00] He wants to pick his team. He doesn't want a team that was picked for him. And that is largely who [18:06] he's been targeting with these firings are people who he feels like he was stuck with. [18:11] And to Jason's point, he wants people that he trusts, not people that he's told to trust, [18:16] but people that he trusts. [18:17] But I mean, let's be honest. I mean, this is the military. Virtually everybody at the star level [18:23] is a holdover from the previous administration. They didn't just show up. They were there because [18:28] they're all serving under the United States military and whoever the president is at the time. [18:34] So how is that a reason to fire people? [18:36] So if you go into this believing that there has to be some systemic change because you believe [18:41] that a lot of the problems as he perceives them is due to the fact that everyone is in fact a [18:45] holdover, then this does. [18:47] Makes sense. And to be clear, there's unfortunately there's going to be another Democratic president [18:52] who's then going to make the exact same changes. [18:54] Say that again. So you're suggesting that his belief is that any person in the military [18:58] was a holdover from the previous administration, which is virtually everyone is a problem. [19:04] I think he views any kind of non-institutionalized change as part of the issues within the department. [19:11] We also know, but we also know, we also know, and I don't want to downplay this because we also know [19:17] it in a book about this, that he believes that women in the military are a problem. [19:21] We also know that he believes that people of color are in large part not qualified for all kinds of [19:27] different what he calls DEI reasons. And so when we see actions that are supported by his own words, [19:34] that's why there are questions about what the motivations are. [19:36] And the idea, I mean, the entire idea of having a professional force right after the Warren [19:41] Commission, after Vietnam, and not to have drafting family members willy nilly was a [19:46] professionalized force. [19:47] That was separate from all of these political challenges. [19:50] So listen, if he has an issue with his secretary of army, who was a political appointee and may be [19:55] threatening, got it. But people who actually know, who have served in Iraq, served in Afghanistan, [20:00] know how war is conducted, have actually made great gains for our military strength and [20:05] adaptability. Those are probably not the people you want walking out the door. [20:08] You have a quick question? [20:09] Yeah, just a quick question. I mean, I think across the board, normally you see three and [20:12] four stars being interviewed by the secretary of defense before they get promoted in those [20:15] positions, confirmed by the Senate. [20:17] So in terms of an institutional change, yes, we also saw the firing of most of the career [20:20] ambassadors who were appointed on the previous administration. So we are seeing institutional [20:23] change across the government from the State Department, the Pentagon, etc. But when you [20:27] look at the disproportionate numbers for who is getting fired, right, and where that's coming [20:31] from, I think it does get back to the root question that's there. And I think you hit the [20:34] nail on the head. Is he seeing the folks that were in those positions put there because he saw them [20:38] as illegitimately put in those positions based on not being qualified that they were somehow put [20:42] there for being a minority? Or were they actually qualified to be there and they're now being [20:46] targeted as a result of that? [20:47] Or are they actually being targeted as a result of their gender or race? And that's the two sides of the debate right now that are going on in Washington. He's saying folks aren't qualified. Other folks are saying you're targeting people. [20:53] And obviously, I mean, you've got people inside the Pentagon, in the high ranks of the Trump Pentagon, who believe that he was wrong to strike those names for whatever reason that he wanted to strike them. Alex, thanks a lot for being here.