Hegseth fields Democrats' scrutinizing Iran war questions at combative Senate hearing

[0:00] Mr. Secretary, you are now recognized for your opening statement, sir. [0:06] Well, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Reed, Senators, thank you for the opportunity to testify in support of President Trump's historic, as you said, Mr. Chairman, $1.5 trillion fiscal year 2027 budget for the Department of War. [0:21] The President's budget request reflects the urgency of the moment, addressing both the deferment of longstanding problems as well as positioning our forces for the current and future fights. [0:34] I'm honored to appear alongside General Dan Cain, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Jay Hurst, our Chief Financial Officer and Comptroller. [0:42] I'd like to start by thanking this committee and Congress for your partnership in securing the investments needed for a stronger, prouder, and more secure military. [0:52] Your focus on acquisitions, your focus on efficiency, are the reflection in our department as well and in this budget. [1:00] A nation's ability to build, to innovate, and to support the critical needs of its warfighters, at speed and at scale, is the foundation upon which its deterrence and survival rests. [1:11] However, upon taking office on January 20th, 2025, President Trump inherited a defense industrial base that had been hollowed out by years of America-last policies. [1:23] Resulting in a diminished capacity to project strength. [1:27] Under the previous administration, we were offshoring, outsourcing, beset by cost overruns, and degraded capabilities. [1:36] But under the leadership of President Trump, our builder-in-chief, we are reversing this systemic decay and putting our defense industrial base back on a wartime footing. [1:46] Urgency informs everything we do. [1:49] We're rebuilding a military that the American people can be proud of, one that instills nothing less than unrelenting fear in our adversaries, and inspires historic morale and recruiting in its ranks. [2:02] We fight to win in every scenario. [2:04] The $1.5 trillion budget put forward by the President will build upon a previous $1 trillion FY26 top line, and will continue to reverse the four years of underinvestment and mismanagement of the Biden administration. [2:19] The $1.5 trillion budget will ensure that the United States continues to maintain the world's most powerful and capable military, as we grapple with a complex threat environment across multiple theaters. [2:31] Not to mention, the budget also includes a historic troop pay increase, 7% for junior enlisted, and the budget eliminates all poor or failing barracks. [2:44] Quality of life for our troops is front and center in this budget. [2:48] By supercharging our defense industrial capacity and transforming how the Department does business, we are restoring American commercial dominance at a pace unseen in generations, [2:59] transforming the defense industrial base from the broken, slow-moving systems of the past. [3:06] We have flipped the Pentagon acquisition process from a bureaucratic model to a business model, decisively moving from an acquisitions environment paralyzed by bureaucratic red tape into an outcomes-driven organization focused on delivering the most for taxpayer dollars. [3:24] Over the past year, through historic multiyear procurement agreements that this committee supported, we've cut smart business deals that have sent unambiguous demand signals to industry to build more and build faster. [3:39] The result has been a surge, a revitalization of our great American factories, and a massive reinvestment in the skilled American workers who serve as the industrial muscle behind our warriors. [3:53] Further interruptions of our hearing will be treated in like manner. [4:14] We appreciate the First Amendment rights of Americans to express themselves, but disruption of this hearing will not be tolerated. [4:25] So, Mr. Secretary, you may continue. [4:27] I'll briefly provide some concrete high-level metrics of what we've accomplished over just the past few months. [4:34] These are announced new facilities and investments to support American warfighters. [4:38] The department has helped stimulate more than 250 private investment deals in 39 states, 180 cities, and 150 companies worth more than $50 billion. [4:50] It's resulted in 280 new or expanded facilities, more than 18 million new square feet of American manufacturing, and more than 70,000 new jobs. [5:01] These $50 billion in investments in new plants, new assembly lines, and new factories are private investments, not taxpayer dollars. [5:10] By completely transforming our department's business model, American companies are investing in America with their own dollars, a historic demonstration of American manufacturing and defense revitalization, all with their money, not Uncle Sam's. [5:27] This has never been done before and is long overdue, from a bureaucratic model to a business model. [5:35] These investments equal great things for America, for American families, and American workers, to ensure that our warfighters have everything they need, all American-made. [5:45] Together with the help of the policy updates and appropriations passed by Congress, President Trump's war department has begun to turn the lights back on in our manufacturing towns across this country, forging a lethal arsenal of freedom. [6:00] Every policy we pursue, every budgetary item we request, serves to ensure that this department remains laser-focused on increasing lethality and survivability from the front lines to the factory floor. [6:12] This is a historic budget, as you said, Mr. Chairman. [6:16] This is a fiscally responsible budget, and this is a warfighting budget. [6:22] Speaking of warfighting, the topic of Iran, I'm sure, will come up often today, which I welcome. [6:27] I look forward to sharing the incredible success of our military effort achieved in a matter of weeks. [6:34] President Trump has the courage, has had, unlike other presidents, to ensure that Iran never gets a nuclear weapon, and that their nuclear blackmail never succeeds. [6:47] We have the best negotiator in the world driving a great deal. [6:50] Unfortunately, as I said yesterday, and I'll say it again today, the biggest adversary we face at this point are the reckless naysayers and defeatist words of congressional Democrats and some Republicans. [7:05] Defeatists from the cheap seats who, two months in, seek to undermine the incredible efforts that have been undertaken and the historic nature of taking on a 47-year threat with the courage no other president has had to great success and great opportunity for preventing Iran from having a nuclear weapon. [7:27] Despite this, under President Trump, we are restoring the unbreakable might of American manufacturing. [7:32] We're providing for our warfighters, and we are putting the people and interests of this country first. [7:39] May Almighty God continue to watch over our troops wherever they are, and may we honor the legacy of those brave Americans that we have lost. [7:49] This is our sacred mission, and this is what we will continue to execute on. [7:54] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [7:55] Mr. Secretary, you recently fired the Army Chief of Staff, General Randy George, who's one of the most distinguished and decorated officers of this generation. [8:04] General George's nomination came before us. [8:09] We reviewed it thoroughly, and we concurred. [8:12] Why did you fire General George? [8:16] Well, as I did then, and I'll say now, we thank General George for his service. [8:22] And out of respect to him and other officers, we never talk about the nature of why certain officers are asked to step down. [8:30] But we all serve at the pleasure of the president. [8:32] And ultimately, my view in coming into this department, as I stated in my confirmation hearing, was to change the culture of the department. [8:41] And it's ultimately challenging to change the culture of a department with the same people who are a part of or in that department. [8:48] So I have made many changes with general officers. [8:52] We will continue to make changes as necessary with general officers, and they will be in keeping with the trajectory of where we would like to take the department. [8:59] But it doesn't take away from the service of those. [9:01] And I think you will note that every officer that's been asked to leave has been treated with respect. [9:09] Interesting. [9:10] Of the two dozen officers that you have fired for reasons unrelated to performance, since you have not indicated any cause, 60 percent are black or females. [9:23] Now, did the president direct you to single out female and black officers to be dismissed? [9:29] Senator, of course not. [9:34] And as we've emphasized at this department from the beginning, the only metric is merit. [9:40] Members on this committee and the previous leadership of this department were focused on social engineering, race and gender, in ways that we think were unhealthy for the department. [9:51] Focusing on those things, making decisions based on those things. [9:54] In President Trump's War Department, we make decisions based on only one thing, merit. [9:59] And that's how we've made decisions going forward. [10:01] That's how we've made them. [10:02] And that's how we'll make them going forward. [10:03] Well, let me go back to General George. [10:05] What did he fail in terms of his lack of merit to continue serving? [10:13] As I said, I don't talk about the nature of dismissal out of respect for these officers. [10:19] But ultimately, we want to take the department in a particular direction, certain services in a particular direction. [10:24] And we want leadership that's running as fast in that direction as possible. [10:27] And in some cases, we make changes accordingly, but do so out of respect to those officers. [10:31] Well, I think that direction from your behavior is an intense interest in Christianity, in nationalism, and in not recognizing the talents of women and non-white gentlemen. [10:52] And that's the wrong direction. [10:54] I don't know what you're insinuating, Senator, but I am not ashamed of my faith in Jesus Christ. [10:59] Well, you shouldn't be ashamed. [11:00] And if you want to shame me for it, go ahead. [11:02] I'm not shaming you, but are you critical of other faiths? [11:09] I am a believer. [11:09] I'm quite open in that. [11:11] And our department allows for a multitude of faiths. [11:13] So I don't know what you're suggesting. [11:14] I've heard the likes of things that people like you suggest to try to smear my character, and I won't give in to it. [11:21] No. [11:24] I'm sorry, Mr. Secretary, but broadcasting before the national religious broadcasters, stressing the need for more Christianity in the military forces, [11:35] doesn't seem like a neutral position in which you tolerate and accept all religions. [11:41] Let me move on. [11:42] So the strategic aspects of this operation in Iran, the president declared that we're going to destroy their missiles and raise their missile industry to the ground. [11:57] And after more than 13,000 strikes, unclassified assessments conclude that Iran retains more than 40 percent of its drone arsenal [12:05] and 60 percent of its ballistic missile launches compared with pre-war levels. [12:11] That's one of his objectives. [12:13] The second objective was regime change. [12:20] To the great, proud people of Iran, I say tonight that the hour of your freedom is at hand, and we will finish, take over your government. [12:27] Well, when we finish, we'll take over your government. [12:29] That has not succeeded. [12:31] And then one of his other things is the onset of the war, the president said, [12:36] we will ensure that Iran does not obtain a nuclear weapon. [12:40] Military operations to Iran have not achieved that goal yet. [12:43] And it also seems to indicate that his pronouncements about Operation Midnight Hammer obliterating the nuclear policy and structure of the Iranians was false. [12:57] So you have not achieved any of the objectives yet that, as the president mentioned. [13:04] Well, in this setting, I won't talk about the nature of metrics, which are classified, as you know, Senator. [13:09] But I can say that looking at the objectives we set out to achieve from the beginning, some of which you laid out, our military objectives have been stunningly effective. [13:21] Take, for example, their defense industrial base. [13:24] They're completely incapable at scale at any level of reconstituting the capabilities you referred to, [13:29] which is a devastating result for any country, especially one whose ambitions are as wide as Iran's. [13:36] So we've put the president in a very strong position to ensure Iran never gets a nuclear weapon. [13:42] That's the takeaway that's been underneath every single aspect of this. [13:46] For 47 years, Iran's trying to blackmail its way to a nuclear weapon. [13:50] They were closer than ever before because of bad deals under previous administration. [13:53] President Trump was willing to do something about it and not allow their conventional missile shield. [13:58] That's the North Korea strategy. [14:00] That's, to be clear, what Iran was pursuing. [14:03] Hiding their nuclear ambitions, revealing them over time, and then building a conventional shield of missiles so powerful [14:10] that no country would challenge them for fear of what would happen if they unleashed that arsenal. [14:15] Weekend after the 12-day war and Midnight Hammer, which did obliterate their sights, [14:20] President Trump saw an opportunity because their ambitions continued to ensure that umbrella of nuclear blackmail [14:27] did not allow them to get to a nuclear weapon. [14:30] And the world is safer because of his bold and historic choice. [14:35] Mr. Secretary, I think that's rhetorical but not factual. [14:40] Thank you. [14:41] Senator Gillibrand and then Senator Rounds. [14:43] Thank you, gentlemen, for appearing before this committee, [14:46] and thank you for the closed session prior to this. [14:48] I don't know if you fully appreciate how much the American people do not support this war. [14:54] It is an unauthorized war. [14:57] Normally, when you come to Congress, it's a way for the American people to be part of that discussion. [15:04] The American people, particularly in my state of New York, are upset for a lot of reasons. [15:09] First of all, this war is costing so much money. [15:13] Over $25 billion already, estimates $1 billion a day. [15:17] And they're feeling it every single day at the gas pump with higher prices for both fuel, for diesel, for gasoline, for their cars. [15:26] They're also feeling it with higher grocery costs. [15:29] And they're exhausted. [15:30] They are truly exhausted. [15:32] On top of that, on top of that, they have so many grave concerns about how this war is being prosecuted. [15:40] They read in the paper that 22 schools have been hit. [15:46] They read in the paper about a girl's school, hundreds getting killed. [15:52] We have a debate going on in this country about AI, a serious debate about AI. [15:59] And I haven't heard yet from you that you will not allow AI to make final targeting determinations, even when nuclear weapons are being used. [16:08] That's a huge issue that we need to discuss. [16:11] So I want to start from the top, Secretary Hegseth. [16:14] Why do you continue to prosecute a war that the American people aren't behind? [16:18] Uh, first of all, I appreciate the opportunity for that closed session where we had a unsurprisingly very different discussion than we have here with the cameras on. [16:29] Um, we support this. [16:31] Because my job is to represent New Yorkers. [16:33] And I can tell you, when I talk to them all across my state, they are furious. [16:39] And they expect me to explain to them why they are furious. [16:44] And, Senator, when I talk to Americans, and especially when I talk to the troops, [16:48] they are grateful for a president who has the courage to take on this threat after 47 years of what Iran has done targeting and killing Americans, [16:55] and what it would mean to the world if Iran's nuclear ambitions were actually achieved. [16:59] So the question I would ask to you and to others is, what is the cost of a nuclear-armed Iran? [17:04] What is the cost to the American people if the world's most dangerous regime has a nuclear weapon? [17:10] But the truth is, they don't want war coming to this shore. [17:12] And when you do a decapitation operation, the likelihood is going to be exchanged in the United States. [17:18] There's no evidence that we are safer because of this war. [17:21] We did not have any evidence that Iran intended to imminently attack this country in any way, shape, or form. [17:27] So I disagree with your assessment that we are under threat. [17:31] Do you not believe them when they say death to America? [17:34] Listen, our adversaries use rhetoric all the time. [17:38] What I am concerned about is we are not safer. [17:41] And I would just like to know why you have not sought the support of the American people. [17:46] And three out of five Americans are against this war today. [17:49] I believe we do have the support of the American people. [17:54] And we have briefed regularly what this mission looks like and why it's critically important that we undertake it. [17:59] And I would remind you and this group that we're two months in to an effort. [18:04] And many congressional Democrats, as I pointed out, want to declare defeat two months in. [18:10] Iraq took how many years? [18:11] Afghanistan took how many years? [18:13] And they were nebulous missions that people went along with. [18:16] This is different. [18:17] This is a defined mission set that we have had great success in pursuing against a determined enemy who seeks nuclear weapons. [18:25] And I'm proud of the opportunity to remind the American people because they believe in it as well that they can't have it. [18:30] You don't care whether the American people support this war. [18:34] The American people are quite smart. [18:35] They understand and see through spin. [18:37] They know that a regime that says death to America, that seeks nuclear weapons and the ability to deliver. [18:43] Did they lie about the range of their missiles? [18:45] Because I saw a 4,000 kilometer missile get shot at. [18:47] How much more will you ask the American people to pay for this war? [18:51] Diego Garcia. [18:51] Right now, do you want it a billion dollars a day? [18:53] Do you want it two billion dollars a day? [18:55] You're asking for $200 billion more to fund this war and to make sure we have what we. [18:59] We didn't ask for $200 billion. [19:00] I don't know where you got that number from, Senator. [19:02] I think you got it from the news, which you should be careful what you read in the news. [19:05] Okay, Mr. Hegseth, Secretary Hegseth, here's a few more. [19:09] Let's talk about how you're prosecuting the war. [19:12] What is your response to targeting that has resulted in the destruction of schools, hospitals, civilian places? [19:21] Why did you cut by 90% the division that's supposed to help you not target civilians? [19:26] And do you know the impact of a strategic failure at a war when you have so many civilian casualties? [19:33] You may have tactically completed a mission well, but strategically is not meeting your goals because of the harms to civilians. [19:40] What is the cost of that? [19:41] Let's leave time for an answer. [19:44] No military, no country works harder at every echelon to ensure they protect civilian lives than the United States military. [19:51] And that is an ironclad commitment that we make, no matter how, no matter what systems we use. [19:56] Then why did you cut the department by 90%? [19:58] Thank you, Senator Gillibrand. [20:00] There will be other rounds of questions. [20:02] Thank you for being here today. [20:05] I want to talk about the costs of war. [20:09] The costs of war include caring for our veterans. [20:13] We've had an estimate from Mr. Hurst yesterday that the costs to date in dollars for this war has been $25 billion, which I believe is well below the actual cost based on everything that I've heard, everything available to us in various kinds of settings. [20:35] And I'm going to ask for a more accurate assessment. [20:39] But we also know that about 400 service members have been wounded as a result of this war. [20:45] When they retire, when they come home, their retirement pay will be docked dollar for dollar for every disability benefit dollar they receive. [21:02] Secretary Hegseth, I'd like your commitment that you will support the Major Richard Starr Act that will eliminate this wounded warrior tax. [21:13] I'm sure you're familiar with it. [21:15] Tens of thousands of servicemen and women now are reduced in their retirement pay literally for every dollar of disability benefits they receive. [21:29] Well, I appreciate your focus on this issue. [21:31] And I will tell you of the you mentioned roughly 400 that have been injured, thankfully over 90% are returned to duty. [21:37] But that doesn't mean they wouldn't have a residual challenge. [21:40] And we're tracking that at point of injury to ensure that that is noted, even though they're returned to duty. [21:46] But what I'd like is your commitment that you will support the Major Richard Starr Act. [21:50] As I have said in the past to other organizations, we support the Richard Starr Act. [21:55] Thank you. [21:55] On the issue of cost, Mr. Hurst, does that $25 billion estimate include all of the costs in terms of damage to our bases, the need to replace planes and munitions, and the costs of injuries to our servicemen and women? [22:23] Mr. Senator, so for the Milcon facilities replacement costs, that's probably the hardest thing to estimate right now because we don't know what our future posture is going to be or the future construction of those bases. [22:34] Well, you owe it to us. [22:36] You're here to ask for appropriations. [22:40] Of course. [22:40] And I would like a more accurate estimate of what has been done that will require replacement and renovation as well as the other costs. [22:54] And I think $25 billion is probably less than half, maybe less than a quarter of the total cost of war, which is the reason why the supplemental request is much higher. [23:06] So I think you owe it to the American people to give us the straight talk about what the costs have been. [23:13] Mr. Secretary, I know you have characterized this war as an astonishing military success, to use your words yesterday, but the American people aren't buying it. [23:31] And I know you feel the American people are seeing through the abstruse stuff that is thrown at them. [23:41] But one point is irrefutable, which is America never succeeds in war unless the American people are behind it. [23:50] And if what you're seeing as success now is winning, I would hate to see what losing looks like, because none of the shifting and contradictory objectives of the war so far have been achieved. [24:06] Likewise, let me ask you, yesterday the president said that Ukraine has been, quote, militarily defeated. [24:16] I assume you don't agree with that assessment. [24:18] The negative nature in which you characterize the incredible and historic effort in Iran is part of the reason, Senator, why the American people view it the way they do. [24:30] It's why I looked out at our press corps at the Pentagon and called them the Pharisees in the press, because they look for every problem. [24:36] Well, I'm asking you about Ukraine. [24:37] You look for every problem that exists, and you miss. [24:39] Ukraine has been militarily defeated. [24:42] You missed the plank. [24:42] I would submit, based on my nine trips to Ukraine, that is a false narrative that the president is buying from Vladimir Putin. [24:50] We are two months into a historic military success in Iran, and you want to call it a defeat. [24:55] And it's defeatist Democrats like you that cloud the mind of the American people and would otherwise fully support preventing Iran from having a nuclear weapon. [25:03] administration, and they are bravely fighting our fight. [25:09] And that is the reason that I'm pursuing the Russian sanctions bill, which is bipartisan, along with Senator Graham, and why I hope we will recognize our obligation to release that $400 million, which we've appropriated. [25:20] Thank you, Senator Blumenthal. [25:22] God, Senator Kaine. [25:23] Thank you, Mr. Chair. [25:24] Mr. Hurst, I want you to just confirm something for me about the president's submitted budget. [25:29] And $1.5 trillion is about a 40-plus percent increase from FY26. [25:36] Am I right that not a penny of that is to go to a pay raise for the 800,000 civilians who work for the Department of Defense? [25:47] We have 4.2 percent of a civilian salary set aside for bonuses to make sure we can recognize high performers in the civilian workforce. [25:55] But you have guaranteed pay raises for the active duty in the Guard and Reserve component, but no guaranteed raises for civilians, is that correct? [26:01] There are guaranteed raises for the military, but, you know, in the last year, this department's given out more civilian bonuses. [26:07] Well, you know, if we're going to increase the defense budget by that much, I would hope the committee would take a look at this. [26:13] Chairman Kaine, and I like the sound of that, Chairman Kaine. [26:17] General Kaine, I want to ask you a question about Southern Spear. [26:22] It's an operational question. [26:23] I know from your background that you carefully act to keep military actions within the rules of war. [26:31] What legal justification could there possibly be that would allow the U.S. military to strike boats in international waters [26:41] and kill the occupants of those boats without a showing of evidence that there's narcotics on those boats? [26:47] Well, sir, as you know, our job is to show the range of options, the associated risks, and then take those execution orders, [26:58] transmit them down to the COCOMs on legally appropriate and legally backstopped actions. [27:05] Could you give me a legal justification that would authorize striking boats that do not have evidence that they're carrying narcotics? [27:15] I apologize. [27:16] I didn't mean to interrupt you. [27:17] I don't have a copy of the order issued to Southcom with me today. [27:22] It's classified in its own right, which clearly articulates, based on a variety of criteria, [27:28] what constitutes a valid military and legally valid target in that theater. [27:34] And I know, I just want to say I know and trust that our commanders at Echelon are rigorously following that legal opinion and those legal boundaries upon which we've been issued those orders. [27:48] And General Cain, I would encourage, again, my colleagues, I am at a disadvantage. [27:53] I've seen the legal opinion, but I can't talk about it because it's classified. [27:56] I've seen the targeting criteria, but I can't talk about them because they're classified. [28:01] I've seen the secret list of DTOs against whom we have declared war that even they haven't been informed of, but I can't talk about it because it's classified. [28:11] But I would urge all of my colleagues to go to the SCIF and read the targeting criteria and get briefed about it and then also look at all of the files of all the strikes that have taken place. [28:18] I've done that with the first 46 strikes or so, and I think there's a profound mismatch between what is occurring and the underlying assumptions in the legal opinion, and I would just encourage my colleagues to dig into this. [28:36] To Secretary Hegseth and General Cain, the War Powers Resolution specifies that a war initiated by a president without congressional approval must be concluded within 60 days. [28:48] It can be extended by an additional 30 days if, quote, the president determines and certifies to Congress in writing that unavoidable military necessity respecting the safety of the U.S. Armed Forces requires the continued use of such armed forces in the course of bringing about a prompt removal of such forces. [29:09] We're right at the 60-day deadline. [29:11] Is the president intending to either seek congressional authorization for the war in Iran or send us the legally required certification that he needs an additional 30 days to remove U.S. forces from the war? [29:26] Just briefly on the previous question, we do know that these are designated terrorist organizations, so we treat them like the al-Qaeda of our hemisphere, just as a note. [29:35] But that was not the question I asked. [29:37] I know there's more to that question. [29:38] I just think it's important for the public to understand that. [29:41] There's no willy-nilly targeting of drug boats. [29:43] We know exactly who these people are affiliated with. [29:45] I was asking about what's on the boats. [29:47] On Iran. [29:48] Ultimately, I would defer to the White House and White House counsel on that. [29:52] However, we are in a ceasefire right now, which our understanding means the 60-day clock pauses or stops in a ceasefire. [29:59] So they're not in. [30:00] Yeah. [30:01] It's our understanding, just so you know. [30:03] Okay. [30:04] Well, I do not believe the statute would support that. [30:06] I think the 60 days runs maybe tomorrow, and it's going to pose a really important legal question for the administration. [30:13] We have serious constitutional concerns, and we don't want to layer those with additional statutory concerns. [30:20] I yield back, Mr. Chair. [30:21] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [30:23] So Americans are paying a high price for Donald Trump's war with Iran. [30:27] We've got 14 service members who are dead, over 400 more who are wounded. [30:33] Prices are rising for nearly every American family. [30:37] But someone is profiting off Trump's war. [30:41] Insiders who know what's going on and who place bets on that inside information. [30:48] On March 23rd, just 14 minutes before Trump unexpectedly posted about, quote, very good conversations on ending the war, [30:59] traders suddenly bet $500 million on the price of oil, which, once Trump made his announcement, immediately dropped. [31:09] It happened again on April 7th, and then again on April 21st. [31:14] A surge in oil bets, then a Trump post, and then a huge shift in oil prices in just the space of minutes. [31:24] It looks like insiders have been making out like bandits, using secret information about the war. [31:31] Now, one U.S. soldier has been charged, but that was for betting on capturing Maduro months ago. [31:38] Not a single person has been charged in the many, many, many trades over the Middle East war. [31:46] So, Secretary Hegseth, do you have any explanation for these perfectly timed spikes in trading activity other than insider trading? [31:58] Senator, all I can tell you is that everything we've done in our department, everything we've done with information, [32:06] in working with the White House and across the interagency, has been completely above board. [32:10] Well, so what does it mean? Do you have any other explanation other than insider trading? [32:16] Do you have a story for why just minutes before there's an announcement there's a surge in trading activity? [32:25] Senator, I'm more than focused on doing my job and ensuring we execute properly, [32:30] which thankfully, under this administration, our troops have done incredible things in all these missions. [32:35] My job in all of those moments is to make sure we're prepared. [32:38] And that's part of the reason why we've been so successful in these raids, in these efforts, is that this joint force is prepared. [32:44] So you're saying you're not paying any attention to this insider trading. [32:47] Is that what you're telling me? That you've paid no attention to this? You haven't noticed it? You haven't done anything about it? [32:52] What I'm saying is we're focused on our mission of executing for the American people, [32:57] and what happens in betting markets is not something we're involved in. [33:02] What happens in betting markets doesn't matter to you, even if the information may be coming from insiders in your office? [33:10] Senator, it's not something we're involved in at all. And, of course, we take operational security at every level very seriously. [33:16] In fact, no one's taken operational security more seriously than us. [33:21] If you look at what it required to keep secret Midnight Hammer and Operation Maduro, the absolute resolve with Maduro, [33:29] and the steps we've taken, no one's been tighter about ensuring that operational security is insured. [33:35] Have you taken any steps to deal with insider trading out of your office? [33:40] We would ensure at every level that inside information is properly safeguarded. [33:45] I take that as a no. [33:46] All right. Well, obviously you're not. [33:48] I'm also concerned about recent reporting on your own financial dealings with regard to profiting from the war in Iran. [33:56] The Financial Times reported that your broker tried to buy hundreds of shares in a BlackRock fund invested in defense companies just before the war began. [34:05] The law clearly prohibits the secretary. [34:08] That entire story is false. [34:09] Has been from the beginning and was made up out of whole cloth. [34:12] And anybody that looks at it sees how it was worded from the beginning to make it look like I was involved in something I had nothing to do and never have. [34:19] So any insinuation that I've ever profited other than serving this nation, what I give, what you give, what others give, I'm not looking for money. [34:28] I don't do it for money. [34:29] I don't do it for profit. [34:30] I don't do it for stocks. [34:31] And that's part of the reason why I'm able to be effective in this job. [34:33] Because no one owns me, no one owns this department, no one owns this president, and we can execute for the American people, and we do. [34:40] The law clearly prohibits the secretary of defense from owning stock in the ten biggest defense contractors. [34:48] Other senators and I sent you a letter with detailed questions about this, and you have not given us a response. [34:55] So I'd like to hear you say, did you, through your broker at Morgan Stanley or otherwise, seek to invest in any defense-related funds right before Trump started the Iran war? [35:10] I'll give it to you as a big, fat negative. [35:13] Then let me ask you a second question. [35:16] Is your broker getting your personal sign-off on any investment in individual stocks? [35:22] Bigger, fatter, negative. [35:25] He's not getting your sign-off before he makes investments in defense stocks? [35:29] Can I refer you to your ethics agreement? [35:31] Making investments, Senator. [35:32] I am asking, does he know that he has to get your sign-off before he does that? [35:37] Of course. [35:38] I don't know what you're looking for, but you ain't gonna find it. [35:40] The time of the senator has expired. [35:41] Thank you. [35:42] Thank you, Senator. [35:43] I would like to enter into the record the ethics agreement that the secretary of defense has signed, that he will sign off personally before his broker makes any attempt to buy defense stocks. [35:56] Is there objection? [35:57] Thank you. [35:58] Without objection, it will be admitted. [36:01] Gentlemen, welcome to the committee. [36:04] I appreciate this discussion. [36:06] I'll just start off. [36:07] The number one question I get when I'm back home from people is basically, very simply, when will this war end? [36:13] We know the costs that the American people are paying, both at higher fuel costs, our farmers are paying because of fertilizer costs. [36:21] We know that the whole world economy is paying a great deal for this war. [36:27] And basically, as I think that through, and this is what I want to talk to you about, is that we all know that it's a whole lot easier to go to war than it is to get out of war. [36:36] That's always the tough question. [36:38] And we've got to figure that out. [36:41] And there are some folks who have written quite a bit about this. [36:44] One text on war by Carl von Klauswitz. [36:48] Mr. Secretary, I'm sure you're familiar with the book. [36:51] I know all of the men and women in uniform are. [36:54] It's the most widely read, most influential military strategy book in Western history, which is pretty, pretty broad. [37:02] And it is the core curriculum that is read in all the war colleges. [37:07] I read it when I was at the Navy War College, taking courses. [37:11] It's part of what the U.S. military thinks about when to go to war and then how to get out of the war. [37:17] And one of those core principles it starts with is basically war is the continuation of politics by other means. [37:25] Everybody knows that quote who's worn the uniform and others, too. [37:29] It basically means there's two things about that. [37:33] It's politics to get in the war and it's politics to get out of the war. [37:36] And in between, we rely on the men and women in the military to carry out those policies. [37:41] So I want to be clear, and I think I speak for all of my colleagues, is that we know the military plays an important part. [37:47] They need to do the job. [37:48] And nobody, nobody questions the amazing work that our men and women in the U.S. military have done and continue to do. [37:56] They have performed absolutely brilliantly, and we applaud all that they have done. [38:01] However, what we do question is the politics part. [38:04] It's a continuation of politics. [38:06] So it's our political leaders that get us into war and our political leaders who have to get us out of that war, [38:12] which falls on you, Mr. Secretary Hexaf and others in the administration, including the president and his commander-in-chief. [38:19] So, Secretary, are you familiar with the concept in that book of Center of Gravity? [38:24] Sure. [38:25] So, Center of Gravity is basically, as you know, it's basically the hub of all the power and movement. [38:34] Everything depends on it. [38:35] And Clausewitz will say, if you don't take out the center of gravity, it's very difficult to win the war. [38:40] You can have tactical successes, you can have military successes, but if you're not focused on that, you're not going to be able to win. [38:48] Basically, he talks about military strikes are tactical, and tactical success doesn't necessarily create the political conditions necessary [38:56] to get the parties to the table to negotiate and get it done. [39:00] So we've got to focus on that. [39:02] So my question is for you, Mr. Secretary, what is the center of gravity for Iran? [39:07] Well, the center of gravity, as the president has seen it and as I see it, and he's talked about for 30 years, [39:13] is their pursuit of a nuclear weapon and what they could do with it in pursuit as an extension of the radical ideology [39:20] they have professed since the beginning of their revolution. [39:23] So the prophetic ideology they profess alongside the most dangerous weapon in the world would be the center of gravity [39:31] of the rationality of this undertaking, which you understand. [39:33] I appreciate it. I'll actually elaborate more. I appreciate it. [39:35] General Cain, you know more about Clausewitz and strategy than I will ever know, including all the folks behind you. [39:42] What would you consider the center of gravity as defined by Clausewitz in this type of war? [39:47] Well, sir, you're not going to love this answer, but I hope you'll respect it. [39:53] War is politics by any other means, and the political side of that necessitates that our political leaders determine [40:01] what is the center of gravity associated with that. From a military-only perspective, there's a variety of things academically [40:08] that we could look at for center of gravity, from leadership to will to capabilities to intent. [40:13] But I'll defer to our political leaders to determine what that is. [40:16] Well, okay. That's fine. That's fair. I don't like it. You're right. [40:18] I know. I know, sir. [40:19] And I know you know the answer to that, and you're just not telling me. [40:21] Well, I get why you're doing that. [40:22] But I would say, you know, other observers say that basically it's not the leader. [40:27] Usually if you take out a leader, that doesn't necessarily make the changes. [40:32] In Iran's case, it's probably the Islamic Revolutionary Guard. [40:37] That's the center of gravity. They're the ones that control the country, and they're very diverse to do that. [40:42] The Americans' center of gravity is probably our economy and our ability to maintain public opinion support. [40:47] We already know the public isn't there. We know the impact to our economy. [40:50] And central to that is the leverage. And I'm running out of time here, but the central of leverage is the Strait of Hormuz. [40:56] That that is bottom line. We have to open that up. We have to take that away from Iran. [41:02] The fact that we haven't done that yet, and we're 60 days in, we're just now bringing minesweepers from the Pacific in there. [41:10] We have some unmanned opportunities, but we've got to have the capacity to do that. [41:17] It was clear even if there was a plan to keep the Straits open, it was not going to be implemented because the assets were not positioned in a place to actually open the Straits. [41:27] If they were, it would have been, we would have seen those happening right now. We're not. [41:32] So we're missing the point here. The center of gravity is going to be bringing down the government of Iran in a way that they will want to have a peace treaty so we can protect our country from having nuclear weapons pointed our way. [41:45] But the center of gravity is going to be, in a lot of ways, is going to be focused on what happens on the Straits. [41:50] And Mr. Secretary, we've got to see action a whole lot sooner than the Straits. The world community needs it. [41:55] We're not going to bring this war to an end until we seize control of the Straits in a way that opens them back. [42:00] Which in part is why we have a blockade that has been impenetrable for the Iranians because they don't have a conventional navy to contest it. [42:07] Which means we control the Straits. [42:09] The time of Senator Peters has expired. Let me observe that I very much appreciate the senator from Michigan, [42:19] suggesting ways in which our effort in Iran could be more successful. I do appreciate that. [42:28] And let me also observe, Senator Kaine, that civilian control goes back well beyond Marshall. [42:37] It goes back to George Washington, who was wise enough to resign his commission to the elected membership of the government at that time. [42:48] Gentlemen, thank you for being here. Secretary Hegseth. Safe to say that our weapons like SM-3s, Tomahawks, Patriot missiles have capabilities that are unmatched. [42:58] That's why they cost a lot, take a long time to produce. Your budget requests $31.8 billion to expand production capacity for critical missile stockpiles. Is that correct? 31.8? [43:12] I'm looking at $53 billion for munitions acceleration over 14 critical munitions, of which the ones you listed are a part. [43:21] So I believe more than that. Yes, sir. [43:23] More than $20 billion more. So we've been working together to grow the industrial base because we're all worried about how our stockpiles would hold up in a conflict against China. [43:35] Since the start of this war, you've made it a point to highlight the number of strikes the U.S. military is carrying out, citing that more than 13,000 targets had been struck as of April 8th. [43:48] On March 2nd, you said, and this is a quote, this was a massive, overwhelming attack across all domains of warfare, striking more than 1,000 targets in the first 24 hours. [43:59] On March 10th, you said, yet again, our most intense day of strikes inside of Iran. [44:05] On April 6th, you said, and this is another quote, the largest volume of strikes since day one of this operation. Your department has released video after video of things blowing up. None of us doubt the strength of the U.S. military and their ability to do hard things. I understand that better than anybody. [44:26] The questions we should be asking and answering are, what does this cost us and what does it achieve for the American people? Many of these strikes use our best weapons, and we're using a lot of them and a lot of interceptors. [44:43] Open source reporting has estimated that the military has used an outrageous number of Patriots. I'm not even going to say the numbers, but a lot of Patriots, a lot of Thad Rounds, Jasmine R, Tomahawks, very expensive, exquisite. We can't make these munitions overnight, and it's clear from your budget request that you know that. Can you tell us how many years specifically is it going to take to replace these systems? [45:13] Senator, thank you for the question. I would defer to the comptroller on the amount because I think it's a lot higher than 53. If you look at long-range fires, JASMs, L-RASMs, Tomahawks, we're looking at $238 billion. [45:26] Okay, a lot. We're looking at $40 billion for hypersonic, so I actually think it's closer to $330 billion in munitions. [45:31] Okay, how many years to replenish? That's the question. [45:34] I think that's exactly the right question, too, Senator, because the time frame we were existing under was unacceptable. [45:40] Okay, well, tell me. [45:41] And what this budget does, I mean, months and years, fast. [45:43] Years. [45:44] I mean, we're building new plants in real time. [45:46] So just to replace what we have expended. [45:48] 2X. [45:49] I said months. [45:50] And then you said years. [45:51] It depends on the weapons system. [45:53] But 2 to 3, 4X of what we have today. [45:55] Okay. [45:56] So yes, we're dealing with a reality under the previous administration of what they sent to Ukraine and what they allocated elsewhere. [46:00] Okay, I got it. [46:01] So we fired years worth of munitions. [46:07] And it is clear that these are being expended to try to achieve some objectives. [46:15] That was the plan. [46:16] But, Mr. Secretary, this war is stuck. [46:20] The Strait of Hormuz is closed. [46:23] The Iranian regime is in place. [46:26] The nuclear material is still in their hands. [46:31] Americans are being crushed by higher costs. [46:35] And it's not clear to them at all what the goal of this war is. [46:41] So, I've got about a minute. [46:45] And I want to go to another topic. [46:48] I saw your hearing yesterday. [46:51] And I'm going to give you one more chance to address a question here. [46:56] It's my understanding that the definition of no quarter is that legitimate offers of surrender will be refused or that detainees will be executed. [47:12] Is that your understanding of the definition? [47:17] The only entity that would kill detainees or target civilians is the Iranians. [47:22] And they're the ones being crushed. [47:23] It's the Iranian military and their military capabilities. [47:27] The question is, I disagree completely with your articulation. [47:30] No, do you understand the definition that I just read you? [47:33] Because that's the definition from your department's law of war manual. [47:38] Is that your understanding? [47:39] And I'm going to just get to the point here. [47:41] We fight to win and we follow the law, Senator. [47:43] Okay. [47:44] So, your quote was, we will keep pushing, keep advancing, no quarter, no mercy for our enemies. [47:51] And yesterday, you did not clarify whether you stand by this statement. [47:55] So, I'm going to give you another opportunity to clarify if that is what you meant. [48:02] Do you stand by that statement you made on March 13th? [48:06] We have untied the hands of our war fighters. [48:11] We fight to win and we follow the law. [48:13] Okay. [48:14] So, you're not clarifying. [48:15] So, you stand by that statement. [48:16] So, you're the Secretary of Defense. [48:19] The things you say matter. [48:21] And your response here, right now, makes it clear to the American people exactly why you are not right for this job. [48:29] It makes it clear to our enemies, Senator. [48:31] Gentlemen, you're here to ask for $1.5 trillion, 40% more than what we gave you last year, a trillion dollars. [48:43] And I agree with the chairman of this committee that the world has never been more dangerous and complicated. [48:50] And regardless of whether we disagree on the reasons for getting into this war, I think we can all agree that we want our military to come out of it safely and successfully and as soon as feasible. [49:03] The military has taken, you all, the administration has taken military action in 10 different places in the world in 15 months, more than any president in U.S. history. [49:17] I think President Trump has really become a foreign policy president. [49:21] And many of those operations, you know, were on the news for a couple of days, but then the American public didn't feel them. [49:27] And I think the difference with this war with Iran is that the American public is feeling it in their pocketbooks. [49:34] Gas in Michigan is $4.99 today, the cost of fertilizer, of airline tickets, things that are real to people. [49:41] Secretary Haig said, the president said that you were most keen on this war. [49:48] He said that you were the most gung-ho about it. [49:51] And I think despite us all wanting to come out of this successfully, it is hard to miss that we are at the stalemate, [50:01] that we don't control the Strait of Hormuz because shipping is not getting through. [50:07] And we can block what they're trying to get through, but nothing is moving and it's costing the American public. [50:14] And I think that's a fundamentally different moment than the rest of the military action we've taken. [50:20] Even in, like, Middle East 101 class, we used to talk about and run war games on the Strait of Hormuz. [50:26] It's a strategic geography that the Iranians have. [50:30] And I think it's just concerning to me that we, you know, we can try and tell the American people that it's going great and we're killing it, [50:39] but until the Strait of Hormuz is open, I don't think we can credibly say that with any seriousness. [50:45] I think the question I have for you, though, is future-looking. [50:49] And it's our 2026 elections. [50:52] The President has been very clear. [50:55] He said in the State of the Union that essentially if his side doesn't win, then the election was rigged. [51:00] He said that before the 2020 election. [51:02] He's asked for voter rolls for 29 different states. [51:06] He just asked for Detroit's votes or ballots. [51:12] And we know that in 2020 he wrote an executive order that he didn't sign that said to the U.S. military, to the Secretary of Defense, [51:22] you should go and seize ballots and voting machines. [51:26] A few months ago he said that he regretted that he ever, that he didn't sign that executive order. [51:32] So the U.S. military has never been deployed. [51:35] You incorrectly said yesterday that they were deployed during different elections. [51:40] Governors deployed them under their authorities. [51:43] But the federal government has never put the uniformed military at our polls during World War II, right after 9-11. [51:52] We've never had to do that. [51:54] So, Secretary Hegseth, if the President, who regrets not signing that executive order to the then-Sec Def in 2020, [52:01] asks you to seize ballots or voting machines in states during the 2026 election, [52:09] will you stand up for the Constitution and say no, or will you salute and do his bidding? [52:14] Senator, I didn't get a chance to answer the front part of your question, [52:19] which, you know, there was a lot of deferred maintenance under the Biden administration [52:22] that needed to be addressed because the world was in chaos when President Trump was elected because of— [52:25] Just address the election issue, please. [52:27] Well, again, that's another— [52:29] It's the most important thing. [52:30] It's what's happening. [52:31] It's yet another gotcha hypothetical, which is your specialty. [52:35] It's not that we had an executive order from you that your predecessor had to hold— [52:40] It's not a hypothetical. [52:41] I refuse to accept. [52:42] You give that answer all the time. [52:43] You and I have done this dance before. [52:45] Get over it, okay? [52:46] In 2020, he—he's the president, your boss, the guy you're performing for right now, [52:52] told the journalists this year that he wished he signed that executive order to your predecessor. [52:58] And your predecessor said publicly, thank God, we didn't actually go forward with it. [53:02] What are you going to do? [53:03] You're the guy here in the seat. [53:05] It's not hypothetical. [53:06] Tell the American people, will you deploy the uniformed military to our polls to collect voter rolls or machines? [53:13] Are you accusing me of performing because you're performing for cable news right now? [53:17] Dude, dude. [53:18] Just answer the question. [53:19] It's a hypothetical. [53:21] By the way, in 2024, under the Biden administration, 15 states did deploy— [53:25] Under their governor's authority, when their governors asked for it— [53:28] What did Joe Biden say about that? [53:29] That's fundamentally—I don't think anything, because he needed them for cybersecurity and for COVID. [53:34] Trump did it, too, under Trump. [53:36] But it was not the federal decision. [53:38] It was those governors of the states under their authorities, okay? [53:42] It's never been done in our history. [53:44] Please stand up for the Constitution. [53:46] Do not send uniformed military to our polls. [53:49] Do you have a response to that portion of the question, Mr. Secretary? [53:54] I've never been ordered to do anything illegal, and I won't. [53:58] That goes without saying. [54:00] Thank you for the answers.