FULL TESTIMONY: Mother, Sister, Coworker, Forensics Expert & ER Doctor — Lindsay Clancy Trial — AB1E

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: good morning sir good morning all right [00:00:24] Speaker 2: trees break please thank you good [00:00:27] Speaker 3: morning can you please state and spell your name for the record yes it's Ian [00:00:30] Speaker 2: within I a n w h i f i n where do you [00:00:35] Speaker 3: work so bright what is celebrate [00:00:38] Speaker 2: so bright is a digital intelligence company working in the digital [00:00:42] Speaker 3: forensics field and how long have you [00:00:45] Speaker 2: worked there since 2020 what is your [00:00:49] Speaker 3: role at celebrate I'm currently a [00:00:52] Speaker 2: customer engagement manager what does that mean I work with customers helping users of our tools to understand the digital evidence that they're finding [00:01:02] Speaker 3: and presenting what is digital evidence [00:01:06] Speaker 2: consist of any information which is extracted from a cell phone primarily or from a computer which can be interpreted by the examiner and presented as evidence it could be called history messages location data media anything that you can find from a digital device you could you [00:01:26] Speaker 3: just briefly describe your education on training background that qualifies you to do this work [00:01:31] Speaker 2: yeah I've worked in IT for many years in 2013 I began my career within Calgary police service in Canada as a digital forensics examiner that was after spending approximately nine or ten years working as a patrol officer in the UK and in Canada as part of my role as a digital forensics examiner within the Calgary police I went on numerous training courses courses the Canadian police college they did a introductory course into digital forensics and then further courses focusing on mobile data provided by some vendors such as blacklight or celebrate at the time as well as further courses presented by the Canadian police college specifically about cell phones [00:02:20] Speaker 3: and celebrate the the software produced by celebrate is that software used to extract and [00:02:29] Speaker 2: analyze data from cell phones and computers yes there are several tools within our catalog one of them is designed to extract as much data as possible from a cell phone and then one of the other tools is designed to take that extracted data decoded decrypt it make sense of it and provide it to the user in a way which can be searched filtered organized reported and [00:02:55] Speaker 3: presented does celebrates ability to access cell phone data continually changed based on improvements that are done to the the phones themselves yes there's [00:03:11] Speaker 2: constantly changes being made to devices which make it difficult to extract the data there are changes being made to the software that means that the data that we extract is now different to the data that we extracted previously a new feature for example or a change that's made by the software developer so we're constantly changing our software to be able to extract that data and to decode more data [00:03:35] Speaker 3: were you asked to um locate apple health data and other information that could be relevant to the investigation of an incident that occurred at 47 summer street in docksbury on january 24th 2023 [00:03:50] Speaker 2: i was yes and what is apple health data apple health is a component of the ios operating system which logs sensor data from multiple locations so the sensors built within an iphone the monitor steps taken flights climbed for example as well as third-party devices apple watches features uh fitbits any other device like that all the information uh is brought into the apple health application aggregated and made available for the user to see roughly how many phone extractions have you done [00:04:29] Speaker 3: uh since around 2013 well over a thousand phones and how many and how many times have you done analysis [00:04:37] Speaker 2: on phone extractions uh the analysis is part and parcel so of those thousand funds or so which i've extracted [00:04:45] Speaker 3: i've done analysis on all those phones as well and then you've also done analysis on extractions like in this case where someone else did the extraction and provided the information to you [00:04:55] Speaker 2: and you did the analysis correct yeah um whenever i'm helping customers uh or users of our tools they may provide me with the extracted data uh so the the data which i'm analyzing is more than the devices i've [00:05:09] Speaker 3: extracted and have you testified previously in courts about what you've done in terms of extracting [00:05:15] Speaker 2: and analyzing information uh yes i've testified in multiple courts around the world uh approximately [00:05:20] Speaker 3: 28 times now you received a copy of the extraction for lindsey clancy's iphone 13 correct correct and when you receive that extraction did you also want to know all the specific information about the [00:05:36] Speaker 2: case in the investigation uh typically when i'm working a case i don't want to know a lot of detail i'd rather come to my own conclusions based on the data that i'm viewing rather than you know note the intricacies of the case all are required is an outline the uh the date that something happened the the time who's involved [00:05:57] Speaker 3: basic information and in terms of the extraction that was done on lindsey clancy's iphone [00:06:06] Speaker 2: that extraction what type of extraction was it that's what's called a full file system extraction it's essentially all of the data which has been extracted from the device [00:06:14] Speaker 3: that is uh still live and did you use specific tools to conduct your analysis uh yes there's the cellbrite [00:06:23] Speaker 2: physical analyzer tool uh created by cellbrite and also my own tooling uh applications i've been working [00:06:29] Speaker 3: on for for several years so you've actually made your own tools that allow you to examine phone extractions [00:06:37] Speaker 2: correct there's some tools that i've been working on since prior to joining cellbrite tools that as an examiner i decided that i needed to to create for myself and make available to others [00:06:49] Speaker 3: and i still use those tools to this day and these tools that you used are those the tools that allow you to um examine and categorize uh the information the data that you find in the extraction [00:07:03] Speaker 2: yes the primary point of the tool is to go into the data decode it uh provide it in a way which is easy to filter and search but also additional tools there that allow you to dig into the data and look at the uh the raw information the databases the files uh all of the raw information which is what our tools [00:07:26] Speaker 3: initially decode and did you focus in on a particular time frame when looking at the data on [00:07:32] Speaker 2: the defendant's um iphone uh primarily i knew that the the date of the incident was 24th of january 2023 so that was the main focus uh of my analysis uh but some of the data i was aware could be from further afield than that so i took a look of uh i think it was around three weeks uh before that so early january to [00:07:56] Speaker 3: to late january were you able to look at the health data on january 24 2023 that was in the defendant's phone extraction i was yes and what is health data and and how is it how does it show up on a phone [00:08:14] Speaker 2: the user of the phone would be able to access the health data they via the health application where the information is broken down to explain how many steps have been taken over a particular period of time the approximate distance that was traveled the number of stair flights that were climbed that data is stored on the device itself in a database so as a forensic examiner i can take a look at that database in its raw form and understand exactly where that information is coming from and present it to the user of our forensic tools in a slightly more forensic friendly method than the user of the application on the phone would see [00:09:00] Speaker 3: showing you on the screen here page four of your report looking here we have a section here heart rate data is that correct correct and you're able to see here what can you tell them about the heart rate data from the extraction [00:09:27] Speaker 2: so heart rate data comes from wearing an apple watch or a similar device not from the phone itself in the case of this phone there was an apple watch paired to the device and all of the heart rate data which is recorded periodically throughout the day is stored within the the health database [00:09:48] Speaker 3: and what was the name associated with the apple watch uh so as it says in the third paragraph down the apple watch itself was called lindsay's apple watch and here in the the report you're able to show the recorded heart rates throughout the day how how is the heart rate reported and sent to the phone [00:10:14] Speaker 2: there are sensors on the apple watch itself on on the rear which periodically check the heart rate at any given time and that information is sent to the phone via bluetooth [00:10:26] Speaker 3: and are you aware of how often and i watch will record the data and report it to an iphone [00:10:40] Speaker 2: the actual uh cadence at which the the watch is is checking would depend on what the user is doing so if you are in the middle of a workout it would be a lot more consistent than just periodically throughout the day and i actually don't know how often it is throughout the day if you're not doing any particular workout that doesn't seem to be a set cadence every device i've looked at [00:11:02] Speaker 3: it's slightly different i'm showing you page five of your report this this database of um the heart rates for example in several locations there will be a heart rate report maybe a few seconds in between them and others there's seven or eight minutes in between the heart rate report is that what you're talking about how it varies depending on what you're doing at [00:11:28] Speaker 2: that point in time uh yes this is is typical from what you see when you look at the database uh the timestamps are never consistently at a recognizable cadence and the the highlights in three what do those represent so i actually tried to just highlight some of the high points for the day uh i realized a few days ago while reviewing this there was uh records uh there that show a a high of 123 and 122 which i've not highlighted [00:11:57] Speaker 3: that's right there below correct yes and what was the uh the last time a heart rate was reported [00:12:06] Speaker 2: from the watch to the defendant's phone uh so the last heart rate recorded was at 17 23 52 so 23 minutes past five uh in the afternoon with a heart rate of 57 beats per minute what was the average heart rate for for the day for the defendant's um there was a range of heart rates uh going between uh as low as uh i believe around 50 and as high as around 122. on average it was around uh high 80s early 90s and so at 5 23 pm the last [00:12:42] Speaker 3: recording of our heart rate was 57. correct and there aren't any further heart rates reported to the phone after that point correct that's correct and what are some of the reasons why a watch would no longer be reporting a heart rate to the phone [00:13:02] Speaker 2: uh if the watch was taken off if the watch was turned off uh if the battery died the battery was was dead yes you also mentioned flight climb data what is that uh flight climb uh is information which the apple health application uh stores every time it detects that you walk up a flight of stairs so a flight of stairs would be considered either a three meter or 10 foot incline over 16 steps uh so the the device is detected that both the altitude has changed by 10 feet and there were steps being walked at the same [00:13:51] Speaker 3: time so there's two factors being considered there the steps that your watch monitors as you walk and then the altitude is that correct that's correct and what what is it is it gps or something that's [00:14:03] Speaker 2: keeping track of your altitude uh the altitude has been monitored by a barometer or an altimeter which is inside the device just measuring for differences in air pressure and this information the the flight [00:14:15] Speaker 3: climb data can that be monitored by both a watch and your phone if you have it on you it is both devices [00:14:22] Speaker 2: have got the barometers built in both devices can monitor flight climb events [00:14:29] Speaker 3: can anything simulate or kind of fake out the watch or or the the phone into thinking that a flight of stairs is being climbed when it's not [00:14:42] Speaker 2: there are some circumstances where that can happen they're typically quite quite rare but it can happen [00:14:51] Speaker 3: is an example of that being in a car and going up a hill correct yes if there is [00:14:57] Speaker 2: movement which the device can mistake for steps at the same time as the incline is being driven then that could could accidentally record a flight climb but if a person's not in a car and then is in in [00:15:11] Speaker 3: is in their home then it would be flights climbed not hills being driven correct correct if if the [00:15:18] Speaker 2: person is in a house and their flight climbs being recorded then the only rational explanation is that the person was climbing stairs [00:15:32] Speaker 3: how is the data in terms of flight climb data how is that data displayed or in the health data itself [00:15:42] Speaker 2: uh within the application or within the [00:15:45] Speaker 3: forensic tool within the forensic tool okay [00:15:48] Speaker 2: so within the forensic tool we break down or within physical analyzer we break down the health data into our uh segments so for an hour we may say that there are three flight climbs and then it's up to the user to dig in a little further they can select that one hour and then see how that uh activity breaks down over the hour so you would see that there were two flight climbs that occurred uh 10 minutes after the hour and then you know another flight climb occurred uh later on [00:16:18] Speaker 3: so showing you page six of your report here the pop-ups here is actually the general hour data where three flights have been climbed [00:16:36] Speaker 2: correct so in this case um the user's looking at a time period between 10 a.m and 11 a.m and the health data that's been pulled from the database has been aggregated uh it tells you that there's 98 samples being considered the maximum heart rate during that hour-long period was 108. uh the distance traveled was approximately 759 meters and there were five [00:17:01] Speaker 4: flights climbed within that hour and then below that you break that down a little further correct correct [00:17:08] Speaker 2: so this is further down the screen in the uh interface where we can see actual time of 10 17 27 where there's two flights climbed uh and again another record at 10 17 28 where there are two flights climbed and then a further flight climb at 10 49. and then going down to the bottom here this table what are we seeing here in this table uh so you may have realized in the in the slide above where there was uh two flight climbs at 17 seconds past and two flight climbs 18 seconds past that's an unrealistic measurement it's because one of those measurements comes from the phone and one comes from the watch this table breaks it down to say uh which of these records came from the watch and which came from the [00:17:59] Speaker 3: phone because there are some which overlap so what you're saying is the prior table it showed the four flights of stairs being climbed at the same time within seconds which isn't rational but this breaks it down to show some of that data is coming from the watch and some of it's coming from the phone correct [00:18:17] Speaker 2: correct so if we look at records four and five here for example we can see uh a start time of 10 17 27 and an end time of 10.706 where the watch recorded two flight climbs and then one second later a start time and two seconds later for the end time we see the watch also detected two flight climbs this is just the same two flight climb events that happened but both devices recorded those flight climbs with slightly [00:18:46] Speaker 3: different time stamps and that will happen if i'm wearing my watch and i have my phone in my pocket and they go upstairs that's correct did you do something um to compare these times and um make a table where the um where you ignored or [00:19:11] Speaker 2: disregarded the uh double entries i did i tried to correlate and discard all of the duplicate information so where there was an event of uh a flight climb that was recorded on the watch and the phone rather than provide information that said there was two flight climbs i would ignore one of them and limit it to just the ones which we could prove happened and that's displayed here in this [00:19:36] Speaker 3: chart at the bottom of page seven of your report correct going to page eight of your report we have here um at the top of page eight does that show um the last flight client recorded on either the defendant's phone or watch [00:20:05] Speaker 2: it does it shows that there was additional flight climb events logged by the phone which were not [00:20:10] Speaker 3: logged by the watch uh at 1703 and 1733. so these records indicate that at 5:03 pm the defendant's iPhone was with the person as it went up the stairs and then at 5:33 pm the iPhone was with the person as it went up two flights of stairs correct and there's a time difference there the start time is 5:33 pm and the end time is 5:38 pm for two flights of stairs so that's roughly five minutes in between the two flights is there a way to explain that that length of time uh the way the apple health data records this [00:20:54] Speaker 2: information aggregates it it tries to group uh events together so in this case it would have recognized that there was a flight climb on the phone at around 17 33 34 and a second one at around 17 38 33 and it just grouped them both into one event it doesn't mean that it took five minutes to walk up two flights of stairs it's just within that five minute period there were two flight climbs so if i have my phone in [00:21:22] Speaker 3: my pocket and i climb up a flight of stairs and then i spend a few minutes on that floor and then still with my phone in my pocket go up another flight of stairs that's representative of what we're seeing [00:21:33] Speaker 2: here at 5 33. correct there tends to be around a 10 minute uh window where it tries to to check every 10 minutes uh but it can reduce that window uh in a case like this where it sees that there's group data within a [00:21:48] Speaker 4: smaller time period and then further down on page eight um we have another table here um which seems to have [00:21:55] Speaker 3: uh combined data of heart rate and fight flight climb data is that correct correct did you also look at web usage on the extraction of the defendant's phone i did yes and what did you do to look at the web usage on the phone and what time frame did you look at uh the web usage expanded [00:22:41] Speaker 2: the the time of interest uh to early january to uh the 24th of january and just took a look at any web history over that time uh there was over 1300 records uh recovered uh i took a a cursory look down that list and highlighted some which potentially were relevant to the case and then provided the 1300 uh actual records as a appendix report and [00:23:15] Speaker 3: going to page 12 of your report looks like you started here on january 10 2023 is that correct that's correct and basically here you list um various searches that occurred um on each day between january 10th and [00:23:39] Speaker 2: january 24th from the extraction is that correct that's correct broken down by day uh with the time of the search the website that was visited the title of the webpage and then the identifier in the database [00:24:01] Speaker 3: and looking at these searches on january 12th 2023 at 1948 so that would be 7 48 pm is that correct correct correct there was a search in the title it says how quickly does welbutrin work for depression is that the title is that what the user is putting [00:24:27] Speaker 2: into the search uh if i could see the uh the search please [00:24:34] Speaker 4: i'll zoom in [00:24:50] Speaker 2: oh yeah so uh the the top entry here we can see starts with https www google.com slash search uh question mark q uh the text after the q uh the text after the q how quickly does well with trim work uh is what the user uh searched uh typically that is exactly as the the user typed it assuming that there are no um auto completions in place in this particular case uh appears it was searched using safari uh so there's no auto completion that is essentially what the user typed in and then the title how quickly does well the truth uh well bruce i can't say that word i'm afraid well buterin thank you uh work for depression google search is the title uh of the page which google assigns [00:25:42] Speaker 3: so where it says after the queue how plus quickly plus does plus the user's not putting in those pluses [00:25:48] Speaker 2: correct is that what were you calling those uh so that that's part of the attribute it it's how you uh the data is encoded in in a url or in a web search you can't have spaces within this uh address string so they replace the spaces with the plus some plus symbol so i type in how quickly does in the computer as the pluses in the space box yes it's url encoding to make it safe uh for the browser [00:26:17] Speaker 3: and then at 7 49 there's a search for um lamictal for depression uh for yes and depression spelled [00:26:27] Speaker 2: with a b at the end instead of an n uh which demonstrates uh this is what the user typed in rather than a page that was being visited and then a few minutes later at 7 55 pm [00:26:39] Speaker 3: user typed in elavil for depression correct correct correct and then on page 16 on january 18th 2023 at 10 25 we had a search there um ketamine for suicidal ideation is that correct correct and again that's [00:27:27] Speaker 2: the user typing that in uh yeah again those words were typed in by the user [00:27:41] Speaker 3: and then on january 19 2023 on page 17 of your report we have symptoms of postpartum psychosis searched on january 19th correct and again uh so we're looking at this is am correct 9 24 am that was searched yes the morning and then 9 30 am the morning and then there's another search for psychosis symptoms yes [00:28:20] Speaker ?: going back to that same page page 17 at the bottom of january 24 [00:28:33] Speaker 3: going back to that same page page 17 at the bottom of january 24 we have here searches for kids miralax at 402 pm and um take out 3b at 413 pm is that correct that's correct [00:29:02] Speaker 4: and then cds pharmacy at 4 47 pm correct correct [00:29:15] Speaker 3: there was also um an apple note that you found in the records correct that was um the apple note and you report it says it was created on december 22nd 2022 at 10 23 am at 10 23 am at the strike that and then modified at 10 23 am on january 23rd 2023 correct correct and are you able to tell what in the note was modified [00:29:40] Speaker 2: um no there's no real auditable log to to look back and see how many times it's been modified over the course of its life i was able to do some amount of recovery to see that on the day it was created it started in a very similar way to as it's written uh on the 24th or 23rd of january but the exact changes between uh when it first was created and the last time it was [00:30:08] Speaker 3: modified we don't know and then you also looked at messages correct correct and were you able to compile the messages that were sent and received between the defendant and her mother and the defendant and her husband on january 24th 2023 i did yes and were you able to arrange it using the tools that you use in a way that looks like you might see it on your phone uh yeah i tried to prepare [00:30:36] Speaker 2: it in a report which would be uh easy for any viewer to understand uh based on their own usage of uh of [00:30:44] Speaker 3: text messaging so showing you page 19 of your report what we have here is an enlarged version of what you might see on your phone correct correct and so [00:30:58] Speaker 2: someone's is this uh in blue is this lindsay's phone it is the messages in blue on the right would be outgoing [00:31:05] Speaker 3: uh the messages in gray on the left would be incoming and so we have a photo being sent out to from lindsay's phone to her mother and then a reply coming back and that pattern goes on and on correct correct [00:31:18] Speaker 2: correct [00:31:27] Speaker 3: and then looking at page 22 you were able to do the same um in terms of her contact with patrick clancy that day correct i did yes and so in gray we have patrick clancy sending a message to lindsay clancy and then blue is the response correct correct [00:31:48] Speaker ?: so [00:32:18] Speaker 3: we are excuse me were you also able to look at the phone calls that occurred either incoming or outgoing to the defendant's phone on january 24 2023 i did yes and looking at page 27 and 28 of your report first on page 27 just looking closely at the phone here in the report it says 2024 is that a typo that's meant to be 2023 yes i apologize okay um and so what we see here um can you just tell us what these columns [00:32:59] Speaker 2: are yeah the start time uh of the call typically when it is answered by the recipient the end time when the calls ended uh the metadata is information including uh who the call was to or from uh how long the call lasted and then the reason that the call disconnected uh and then a record id so if uh if you had the database you could go in and find this record based on the id number [00:33:29] Speaker 3: and looking at page 28 so this is the continuation of that table regarding the phone calls is that correct correct and so what we're seeing here is at 17 33 which would be 5 33 pm there's an incoming call from patrick to lindsay's phone is that correct correct and it says duration eight seconds is that i'm sorry zero seconds does that mean it was not answered in this case it was an unanswered call and then at 5 34 pm roughly a minute later there's an outgoing call from lindsay's phone to patrick's correct correct and that call was approximately 14 seconds correct and then at 6 0 9 pm another incoming call from patrick to lindsay that went unanswered that's correct [00:34:16] Speaker ?: so so [00:34:26] Speaker 3: now you also um in a section you called media you have some photographs uh that were taken from the phone with some metadata included correct correct what is metadata metadata is information about that photograph [00:34:45] Speaker 2: it could be uh the device that captured it the time that it was captured the location [00:34:51] Speaker 3: uh information about the lens the lighting etc and so looking at page 29 of your report just for an example what we have here are three photographs correct correct and the metadata for the first one uh shows captured at south shore medical center is that correct correct how were you able to determine that's [00:35:13] Speaker 2: where that photograph was taken uh the metadata of the photo included the latitude and longitude where the image was captured uh i took that latitude and longitude and looked on google maps to see uh a physical address um in this case it came down to the south shore medical center [00:35:34] Speaker 3: and then the third photo here that shows um captured at the home address on summer street is that correct [00:35:42] Speaker 2: correct [00:35:55] Speaker 3: and then you looked at device usage what is device usage [00:35:59] Speaker 2: uh device usage would relate to how the user is operating the device so when they have it unlocked locked uh what applications being used any particular time essentially anything which is not a message or a phone call or results in additional data like that [00:36:17] Speaker 3: i'm looking at page 32 of your report in that device usage log it shows that the last time the device usage was logged was at 5 13 pm correct uh so this table relates [00:36:32] Speaker 2: just to the locking and the unlocking of the device so the last time the device was unlocked was at 17 13 16. the device was locked again around two minutes later at 17 15 12 and the device was not unlocked again [00:36:49] Speaker 3: and so where the device was not unlocked again after 5 16 pm but we have a phone call being made at 5 34 pm how does that happen uh there is a setting within iphones that allow you to [00:37:04] Speaker 2: use a locked device to use a locked device to call back numbers for missed calls so in this case lindsay had the missed phone call that would have shown on screen as a notification as a missed call and without unlocking the device you're able to call that person back so you just press on the icon that shows up you [00:37:24] Speaker 3: have a missed call you press on that and you can call the person back without unlocking the phone correct [00:37:31] Speaker 2: and then what is application focus application focus is literally the application which is [00:37:38] Speaker 3: visible on screen at any given time and at 4 13 pm 16 13 um on january 24th you've highlighted it in green here [00:37:53] Speaker 2: what are we seeing there at uh 16 16 13 23 until 16 14 50 uh the apple maps application was being used visible on screen [00:38:13] Speaker 3: is it then used again at 5 13 and 5 14 pm [00:38:19] Speaker 2: or is that a different application uh so 5 13 until 5 14 it was mobile safari so the mobile version of safari the internet browser was on screen and at 17 14 47 until 17 15 08 it was the mobile sms [00:38:39] Speaker 3: or messaging application which was on screen so do you just look at the part that's in parentheses to see where what application or was open or being used at the time correct what application was on screen at the time so for example where it says 17 34 which would be 5 34 pm and in parentheses is in call [00:38:59] Speaker 2: service does that represent a phone call it does that's the the screen that indicates you are in a phone call [00:39:06] Speaker 3: and staying with the same page page 34 you've made some notes here just go ahead a little bit regarding apple maps safari and messaging so can you just explain what you pulled from the data for [00:39:23] Speaker 2: apple maps yeah apple maps was used uh to plan a route from the user's current location the home address to a restaurant called 3v and that was at 4 13 pm it was and then in terms of safari you have the last unlock at 5 13 pm uh yes so the the last unlock of the device was used for the purposes of viewing safari uh where pdlax was searched using uh google and then in terms of messaging what did you what did you pull from the data there at the same time uh or in that same device usage so the device was unlocked safari was used to search pdlax and then the messaging application was opened to send a message to uh to patrick saying pdlax liquid stool softener and that was at 5 15 pm it was [00:40:22] Speaker 3: and then did you create a timeline combining all the data that we've talked about into one timeline i did yes i'm going to the last page of your report page 43 is this the last page of the timeline [00:40:54] Speaker 2: uh it is yes and in that page um can you explain what we're seeing here uh yes so the the very first column is the timestamp uh the next few columns which show uh typically colored is related to the activity which will become a little bit clearer in a moment uh the the rowing or the column in the center explains what the record is uh so if for example we look at the uh 17 13 16 record uh we can see a u which means the device was unlocked in pink that unlock event lasted uh until 17 15 12. so hence that entire column uh is in pink and shows uh the uh the relevant lock event so here we have 5 13 device [00:41:55] Speaker 4: unlock yes 5 15 device lock and there's this column connecting them correct correct uh and then any [00:42:03] Speaker 2: activity that happened during that unlock time is then shown uh within the rows between uh so again we see safari open at 17 13 16 safari was closed at 17 14 47 messaging was opened at 17 14 47. while messages were open there was an outgoing message sent for pdlx uh then messaging was closed messaging was opened again and messaging was closed prior to the device locking so everything in the in the colored columns tries to show uh all of the the events that happened at the same time or during that parent event and what we have [00:42:47] Speaker 4: here at 5 33 pm we have the flight climb started is that correct correct and flight climb ended at 5 38 so [00:42:55] Speaker 2: yes that line again connecting them correct so two flight climbs occurred during that time period [00:43:01] Speaker 4: and in between when the flight climb started and the flight climb ended you had the two calls the incoming [00:43:08] Speaker 3: call that was missed from patrick and then the outgoing call to patrick correct correct so the first flight climbed had already been started someone had already started climbing up a flight of stairs when that first [00:43:22] Speaker 2: unanswered call happened uh so flight climb started uh is how it's listed within the database and within the software uh but it actually the flight climb time is when the flight climb has been recognized by the device as the device has already uh climbed up those stairs so even though it says flight climb started that's that's technically the time that the flight climb or the first flight climb had ended so works as 5 33 i'm [00:43:54] Speaker 3: sorry 5 33 34 flight climb started that actually indicates the person has gone up that first flight of [00:44:00] Speaker 2: stairs already yes that indicates the phone has now realized i'm three meters higher than i was the last time i checked uh therefore a flight climb has already been completed at that point and then the calls happen [00:44:13] Speaker 3: and then the phone realizes at 5 38 that another flight has been climbed correct i would move to submit the report as the next exhibit no objection like that report may be admitted i have nothing further all right [00:44:43] Speaker 1: all right so members of the jury remember i said it might be a little stop and start here today this is one of those stops all right so we're going to take a short break uh and then we'll come right back uh in return for uh the cross-examination of this witness okay all rise please [00:45:09] Speaker ?: all right [00:45:38] Speaker 2: all right [00:46:07] Speaker 5: i thank you madam clerk mr readyton thank you running good morning um mr whippen just a couple of [00:46:26] Speaker 6: things one of the takeaways or question that i had is that you were talking about in reference to the apple health data um if you had to say that there's an issue as to the accuracy of the accuracy or reliability of the act of the apple health data you've actually done research on that i've done research on it yes okay and one of the things that you did is uh about about a year ago june 28th of 2025 you did a um a blog article on apple health accuracy and reliability and it talked about using a a pitch which i think is you guys refer to like a [00:47:03] Speaker 2: football field it was the brookby field yes and then you had somebody put the [00:47:07] Speaker 6: watch in their right pocket somebody with the right pocket somebody with the left pocket and then someone else held it in their hand you measured it and things of that nature right correct it was three problems some of the things were off a little bit but basically you put that in your report and you were able to draw your conclusion as to the accuracy and reliability as you say of the apple health data right correct now if someone is wearing an apple watch is that what records heart rate as the heart rate is on the watch yes it is on the watch okay um and the steps that the person takes things of that nature the movement is that on the phone or would that be on the watch that's on both the watch and the phone okay now if you have an apple watch and you and you test it or you examine it that would you be able to determine what information was actually recorded by the watch while the person was wearing it [00:48:03] Speaker 2: yes the information that's recorded within the apple health database does specify whether it whether the information comes from the watch uh the phone or from a different device okay [00:48:14] Speaker 6: okay and in this case if if i understand correctly um the apple watch stopped recording data at is it 5 23. it was around that time okay you know what i'm going to give you your report feel free to just refresh your memory or look at it or whatever helps you out thank you i just want to get the times down i think you indicated that the watch stopped recording information at 5 23 pm yes the the last heart rate was uh 5 23 52 52 52 okay 5 23 and 52 seconds and then um i believe the phone and watch stopped recording [00:49:05] Speaker 2: at 5 38 was it uh the last usage of the uh the last usage of the phone uh to record flight climb data was a 5 38 [00:49:21] Speaker 6: yes all right and after 5 38 it's pretty much blackout there's no further information or recording right [00:49:31] Speaker 2: uh yes not until um like the phone was seized by police i believe there's other activity but appeared [00:49:39] Speaker 6: to be after the instant so the further activity would have been the following morning on the 25th of [00:49:47] Speaker 2: january say around 5 30 6 o'clock in the morning i ended my analysis on the 24th okay [00:49:57] Speaker 6: well um so 5 23 pm the watch stops recording information 5 38 pm both the watch and the phone stopped recording any information until the police picked up the phone apparently the following day [00:50:12] Speaker 2: right uh again there would have been activity uh later on but it wasn't usage it wasn't health data uh it would have been in things like incoming calls okay so when you went through the stair climbing [00:50:26] Speaker 6: and talked about the uh steps that were taken the distance that was was taken um that stopped at 5 38 pm right correct now you don't know when i say you i mean there's a witness but also uh the police what whoever was was wearing the watch for example if lindsey's wearing the watch or carrying the phone after 5 38 you don't know what was happening at 5 39. correct you don't know what was happening at 5 40 5 45 right correct right up till 5 58 6 o'clock pm right purely the data on the device so it could have been the phone could have been put down the watch could have been put down battery died whatever those issues could be and the person would still be going down the stairs going up the stairs going in the backyard doing push-ups whatever you just don't know right yes okay um one of the things you're familiar with the concept of location data right correct and and location data one of the things you looked at are you aware of would be from lindsey's phone on august 23rd of 2022 is [00:51:40] Speaker 2: that correct uh apologies august 23rd 2022 yeah i didn't go back okay anywhere near that date you [00:51:50] Speaker 6: you have tested and written blogs though on location information right correct you actually testify in the case of common law versus victor arrington in suffolk superior court in boston in support of the accuracy of um this particular artifact or information right correct so you're a you're a true believer that the uh phone does in fact record accurately significant locations on the iphone right it certainly can yes all right um and are you aware or if i was to approach you in your expertise you were talking earlier about latitude longitude things of that nature yes so just to uh get familiar with for example uh significant location visits uh on lindsey's phone august 23rd 2022 at 9 34. do you know what you know what that says or what that [00:53:03] Speaker 2: means uh the creative time yeah of 9 34 uh the when the device decided that the uh device had visited this location enough to consider a visit okay do you know what that location is if i suggest to you it's a doctor's office would you be aware of that uh i don't recognize it from the coordinates okay okay [00:53:40] Speaker 6: this here you're familiar with two as well right the uh geodata with the latitude and the longitude yes and you're familiar with the fact that you can take the metadata off of the information on the cell phone one of which would be latitude and longitude you'd be able to determine for example that this would be uh the lindsey clancy hall correct yes correct you've seen this before right uh it rings about yes okay uh if you have your report in front of you right yes and um that's captioned digital forensic report and and it's in evidence so the jurors are going to be able to review it in its entirety right yes um if i could direct your attention to page page 11 11 11. okay yes just so the jurors are able to acclimate themselves to it that would be this item here that you went through with the district attorney right as far as the uh searches google searches [00:55:08] Speaker 2: i have a different page 11. different page uh that looks like this page 12. oh okay well let me approach you with uh what is your digital forensic [00:55:19] Speaker 7: report report number one yes yeah okay is this the same so this is a revision a revision uh the revision [00:55:29] Speaker 2: submitted in february that just had uh a different record highlighted yeah okay so basically there's no [00:55:37] Speaker 6: big deal difference right correct okay so we can go by you have the revised and i have the old um can you look at january 10th on the google search for example i can you have it yes um so looking at january 10th of 2023 um just read along with me and the jurors again will be able to look at this in in the jury room uh prescription information at uh it says 14 55 what does that mean 12 14 in the morning 14 a.m yes all right and then 1911 which would be at 7 11 in the morning uh 7 11 p.m oh p.m okay trazodone and benadryl goes on about uh an hour later trazodone headache google search goes on trazodone and ibuprofen goes on trazodone and tylenol goes on to 2032 which would be 8 32 p.m trazodone and tylenol interactions right correct fair to say that these are things that lindsay googled uh on her cell phone that's what this document refers to right somebody used the cell phone to google it yes oh you don't know who was actually using it but this is lindsay's cell phone yes you're aware then um just uh if we jump ahead uh looking at all of these various google searches follow with me on let's say randomly let's say um page 13 1948 which would be 17 48 pm i guess you with me on that uh yes 1948 yeah yes how quickly does welbutrin work for depression that's what was googled right correct followed by lamictal for depression elaval for depression how to tell if you're sleep deprived ketamine for suicidal ideation right correct these are all searches that were done on lindsay's cell phone on that particular date chronologically would have been the 12th of january right correct now without boring everybody it goes on and on and on with with searches along those lines suicidal ideation drugs trazodone mixtures things of that nature right it does um page 17 if you have it would be the apple note council asked you about uh yes okay now if i suggest you sir that uh this is the apple note i believe a previous witness may have read this to the jury so they will have this in the room to read but basically this is the note that says i was the healthiest happiest mom i worked out every morning meditated to care of myself and basically my life is turning to crap right correct so what was modified in this if you know because council asked you if there was modifications and things of that nature and i'm [00:58:31] Speaker 2: just asking if you know what was modified in it um exactly at the moment i don't have all of that in front of me it's possible to see snippets uh going back over time uh i do recall okay on the 22nd of december when this was created it started with the same sentence yeah and there was a few uh essentially spell check spelling differences okay as time went on uh but as much as you can recover from the earlier versions of the note it's a snippet it's essentially two sentences and the rest of it is it's essentially [00:59:07] Speaker 6: the same note okay thank you sir um going forward on to page 18 page 19 uh and 20 would you agree with me that well actually in 21 they basically contain photographs that were sent from lindsay's phone [00:59:26] Speaker 2: to it looks like patrick's phone would you agree with that i believe the first few pages are sent to [00:59:36] Speaker 6: mommy okay and this basically is there we go this is the snowman uh in the backyard being made right [00:59:46] Speaker 2: correct and then lindsay's phone is sending the blue yes the blue message is outgoing the response yes and can you tell me what the response is uh the one on screen at the moment is the response sent from mommy to lindsay's phone saying that's a big roll of snow i was wondering if you got enough for the kids to play in and it's pretty nice day two gives them something to do on a day without school okay [01:00:15] Speaker 6: okay and then your report then goes on with additional photographs of the snowmen uh there's a box of cheerios apparently and then there's a um photograph of a young boy appearing to be very exuberant with his arms up in the air um and then there's the lindsay phone responds with a picture of a little girl [01:00:43] Speaker 2: with a mask on right correct and this is a conversation with patrick patrick okay so are [01:00:49] Speaker 6: you able to tell what patrick said if anything when he sent the picture of the little boy with his [01:00:53] Speaker 2: arms up in the air uh so at the very top of that uh message above the photograph it says uh got himself dressed and that would be the message that was sent alongside the photograph okay and then what was her response uh initially it was just the photograph did she respond any further in your report your research [01:01:14] Speaker 6: sorry did you see any response in your research of the phone i don't remember seeing any response all right can you look at page 22 yes okay and this would be on january 24th 2023 and it looks uh what time is that 8 19 in the morning uh yes okay so if i suggest to you sir you can even look in your report this is in the same thread with the little girl making the snowman um and the text about it looks like a nice day you're hoping you got snow things of that nature um and there was a reference by the mother or mommy to get [01:01:57] Speaker 2: the hot chocolate ready things of that nature right um the message at 8 19 a.m that says cutie was sent by patrick okay different thread to the snowman photographs okay but i'm asking you about [01:02:11] Speaker 6: the one that's underneath the snowman and the mummy text the last commentary is get the hot chocolate ready oh yes that's the one okay and that's from the mother apparently right correct but someone that is in the phone as mummy right and that was at 11 33 a.m now if you look on page 22 we can get to what you were talking about um it looks like january 24th at 8 19 in the morning cell phone number 781-375-8564 and what does that say uh cutie and that so just tell us so is that patrick's phone [01:02:49] Speaker 2: yes that would be the phone stored as patrick uh sending a message to lindsay's phone and how did lindsay respond or how did her phone respond uh it appears that lindsay uh reacted to an image [01:03:01] Speaker 6: uh with the love emoji like a little hat thing yes and then what did patrick say uh patrick asked [01:03:07] Speaker 2: how's it going what did she say good and then did she say anything further uh yes she also responded okay her urine looked good so nothing going wrong with her kidneys a few so that she indicates that her [01:03:19] Speaker 6: urine looked good nothing going on with her kidneys and then phew like you know something like that right that's how i dhew yeah yes and then he said good right yes and then as you go forward there's more pictures of the kids with the snowman making the snowman patrick then says to her uh at 11 looks like 11 29 am i reading that right in the morning 11 29 what does he say to her you're a good mama [01:03:47] Speaker 2: and does she respond uh she responds with an emoji uh which is the face covered in hearts [01:03:52] Speaker 6: that the face with the hearts and then there's they go back and forth with each other up until uh getting uh getting the menu and asking what you want to take out and things of that nature right correct page 25 just in case you were looking all right um can you look at page 28 for me um and page 29 i can hold them up basically they basically are just a continuation of photographs little from thumbnails of of the kids doing snowman and sitting in the doctor's office right correct okay um one of the things that you did is that you actually performed a comprehensive search is that a full focus extraction is that what you call a full file system extraction okay and you did that for the phone belonging to lindsay clancy right correct that would be what you referred to as your [01:04:59] Speaker 2: appendix um the appendix one of the lindsay clancy phone is 1300 and some uh web search visits okay [01:05:12] Speaker 6: so i'm going to hand you what says report number one iphone belonging to lindsay clancy and ask if you can [01:05:18] Speaker 2: recognize that uh yes this appears to be the uh just the web history from lindsay's phone okay [01:05:28] Speaker 6: so that's pretty much the if anybody cares to look at it that's the entire web history right correct all right [01:05:32] Speaker 1: that off of this your honor any objection all right that may be admitted [01:05:41] Speaker 6: 268 then um you also have report number four which would be the digital report for patrick clancy's i did computer [01:05:53] Speaker 1: that after that your honor any objection no objection that may be admitted as well [01:06:01] Speaker 6: all right all right thank you finally report number five says surface pro lap laptop belonging to patrick clancy yes so this would be your search of his laptop as well correct correct [01:06:14] Speaker 8: all right that may be admitted [01:06:27] Speaker 6: approaching you with an item sir i'm just gonna this says extraction report apple iphones recognize that the report okay so that is a celebrate report of the extraction of lindsay's phone correct um [01:07:14] Speaker 2: yes this is a report generated by uh physical analyzer self-right tool of the device okay now if you look at [01:07:26] Speaker 6: the report for the report for example just randomly on page let's say name bottom line it says web history i just grab that random january 24th 23 correct yes and then you go to the right and it says lindsay's iphone mobile library yes okay and then it has the time that it was [01:07:49] Speaker 7: recorded right yes and what time would that be on that date which is january 24th the 9th of the five uh local time uh local time morning so if you jump ahead [01:08:03] Speaker 6: to january 25 2023 let's see is that seven o'clock in the morning yes okay and that says what what is it measuring at seven o'clock in the morning of january 25. so this is for the hour of health data [01:08:21] Speaker 2: it's being aggregated but it's being aggregated and it shows uh between 7 a.m and um 8 a.m uh [01:08:30] Speaker 6: uh 47 meters traveled okay and then it goes on and it talks about again at seven o'clock in some seconds it talks about 134 distance traveled uh yes okay and for example january 25 at eight o'clock in the morning uh it talks about it talks about distance travel steps counted and distance would be 47 meters or feet uh okay so is that information that is coming off uh cell phone the apple watch or watch uh that's coming [01:09:06] Speaker 2: coming from the watch and the the phone and being displayed as one amount of information it's coming [01:09:12] Speaker 6: from the watch right [01:09:16] Speaker 2: the way that the data is presented there it's coming from the watch or the phone okay and the data is [01:09:20] Speaker 6: coming from celebrate right correct and celebrate is god's gift and cell phone searches right i think so i mean you work for them and you're also a guy that created all of this stuff pretty much right i've created some other tools yes okay if i tell you sir that january 25 at eight o'clock in the morning lindsay classy was in a coma laying in a bed with tubes coming out of her body and certainly not wearing her apple watch [01:09:49] Speaker 2: how did that happen based purely on the the report there i'd suggest the data came from the phone rather [01:09:57] Speaker 6: than the watch ah i just told you about the watch did you have a look at this watch no we can't actually [01:10:04] Speaker 2: pull data directly from the watch we pull it from the phone how do you look at the watch we extract the data from the phone which is synchronized to the what from the watch to the phone okay [01:10:14] Speaker 6: so i'm handing you is that an apple watch it appears to be yes okay um and if i suggest to you that this was found a number of days later in lindsay's bedroom in a drawer that the police never seized have you ever seen this before i've never seen this before no how long have you been working [01:10:35] Speaker 2: on this case for the government uh i started looking at this case uh in november last year okay thank you [01:10:44] Speaker 6: that's all we have judge [01:10:51] Speaker 3: all right redirect thank you sir from the documents that defense counsel just showed you um the activity on january 25th was it your testimony that it could have been from the watch or the phone it could have been either device but what he showed you did that have enough data on it to tell you specifically whether [01:11:11] Speaker 2: it was from the watch or the phone no i need to take a look at the database itself and see where that [01:11:16] Speaker 3: information came from and um you were saying that you cannot pull data from the watch itself is that [01:11:24] Speaker 2: correct correct we we don't extract the uh the memory from the watch itself we extract data from the phone which is synchronized to the watch so we ultimately get the watch data from the phone and why is it [01:11:37] Speaker 3: that you don't pull it from the watch itself um apple's proprietary connections uh the encryption that [01:11:46] Speaker 2: they use on the device uh complicates extraction uh and essentially considering we get everything from the watch via the phone uh it's just additional um work required to pull data from the watch which would just be a [01:12:04] Speaker 3: duplicate of what we already have and you said that the the watch syncs itself to the phone relaying all data that it's collecting to the phone correct correct and lindsay's watch was synced to lindsay's phone correct it was and if you had if you were able to look at the data from the dates defense council mentioned from the extraction itself you would be able to tell whether the january 25th data was coming from the watch or the phone correct i would yes but you can't from what he showed you correct from the printout no i'd need the the actual data and if on january 25th the police have the watch excuse me the phone and they're bringing it to an evidence room and then they're bringing it uh to storage room is that going to show steps and and distance traveled yeah while ever the device is [01:12:51] Speaker 2: turned on while the phone is turned on it will consistently record steps walked regardless of who's carrying it it will consistently record flights climbed regardless of who's carrying it and so if the watch [01:13:03] Speaker 3: is is turned off in a drawer somewhere the phone would be what's relaying or or not relaying but the phone would be what's recording the distance traveled and the steps taken not the watch correct that's the [01:13:18] Speaker 2: presumption yeah if the watch is turned off uh it's not doing anything any data would be from the phone [01:13:25] Speaker 3: and earlier um defense council just put in some exhibits of your indexes for all the data that you looked at for the phone and the the computers correct correct correct and those indexes do they contain everything that was on the phone and everything that was on each computer that that could be pulled from the phone [01:13:49] Speaker 2: or the computer uh no they were focused reports or focus searches uh so for my reports they were focused to essentially the internet history on those devices um the the large cell bright report again i don't know who created that i don't know what um options were selected by that user but there will be data on the device which is not covered in that report by virtue of that's how decoding works and on the defense [01:14:18] Speaker 3: council asked you about the flights climbed and how the last reading was at 5 38 pm correct correct the last incoming phone call that you registered on your charts was the 609 pm phone call from patrick to lindsay that she did not answer correct correct from 5 38 pm to 609 pm were there any other flights climbed showing from either the watch or the phone don't believe that was no and your honor we'd move to submit the full extraction as the next exhibit it's being copied now so we just put a disc envelope [01:14:53] Speaker 6: in its place all right that may be admitted if i may your honor so you make reference to 5 38 for her question that there's no flights climbed recorded or anything up until six o'clock right you just answered that question correct that's because the phone was either dead off we already went through that she could have been walking all over the house the ad anywhere right yeah the phone did not detect any [01:15:17] Speaker 2: anything regard or i don't know why the phone didn't detect anything whether it was uh so your answer [01:15:23] Speaker 6: is i don't mean to be rude your answer is you don't know why right exactly i don't know why it wouldn't record and and you did not report at all on the steps and distances did you i didn't know okay thank you [01:15:35] Speaker 1: anything on that coma no all right thank you sir you may sit down thank you [01:15:49] Speaker 3: call one for us all right oh i'm sorry your honor there are some exhibits i'm sick um i believe they're by agreement yeah they're all right and then we would rest all right uh we have the two very hospital records two discs [01:16:12] Speaker 8: last general institute health professions transcripts [01:16:29] Speaker 4: who's that wouldn't be out transfer 74. and then employment records from master office [01:16:44] Speaker 1: okay 75. all right with that the commonwealth rest all right all right so uh members of the jury as you heard uh from truce bagel commonwealth has rested all right so at this point uh i've got to address some matters with the attorneys uh so i'm gonna another one of those stocks we're gonna take a stop at this point have you go back to the jury room to address a few things with the with the attorneys and then we'll bring you right back in okay all rise please [01:17:37] Speaker ?: uh so [01:17:51] Speaker 6: um before we do the uh motion for require finding you on it is this a good time to take a good morning break why do you want to take a short break looking something up that's all right so the court will be [01:18:16] Speaker 1: in a short recess so we'll come back um without the jury we'll address the motion and then we'll kind [01:18:22] Speaker 6: of go from there okay a motion yes your honor i passed it up to um the uh the court i don't know if you have in front of you it's basically a rule 25 um it doesn't have any memoranda with it but i would argue um and i and i would say to the uh the court uh the case that was decided of uh carmel versus brunette silvera it's uh b-r-u-n-e-t-t-e hyphen s-e-l-v-e-i-r-a it was decided towards the end of may of 26 by the appeals court in massachusetts it was a case out of the boston municipal court where defendant was charged with assault and battery on a police officer the evidence was presented that the defendant was acting erratically and that there was an awful lot of evidence that indicated that um brought out on cross-examination from witnesses that the defendant was suffering from some type of a mental illness based on that evidence being presented the government rested their case just as they've done here my suggestion to the court is that the evidence that's been presented on this case against miss clancy um does i would suggest does not rise to the level under rule 25 of with even if you take the latimore standard and determine that the evidence would be decided in the light most favorable to the government at this stage of the case i think the brunette silvera case places as they describe it a negative obligation to prove a negative as part of their case in chief on the government i suggest your honor that the evidence that has been presented in this case is overwhelming that this young woman was clearly and unequivocally suffering from a mental disease or defect that it was occupying her waking hours her life that she considered all of her avenues she attempted to go to these health care providers using the term loosely that she she went to these people she had medication after medication after medication she was obviously acting i suggest to the court in a in a in a state that was observed by witnesses that in fact that she was suffering from mental disease a defect and then ultimately this horrific uh incident so under that brunette silvera case there's no evidence i suggest from the government that would rebut uh the fact that there is evidence of lack of criminal responsibility so under brunette silvera and the cases that were cited in that opinion uh respectfully i would suggest that a required finding of not guilty should be entered on the case um i also would argue to the court that i think that under the brunette silvera standard and the evidence that your honor has before you that the matter should be reduced down if you will from premeditated malice of forethought cruelty and atrocity to second degree i'm not arguing at this stage commonwealth versus gray or any of its progeny as to manslaughter but i think the court certainly in its wise exercise of discretion has the ability and the right to reduce the charge to uh second degree murder or enter a required finding all right council thank [01:21:26] Speaker 3: you come off thank you your honor uh the case that defense counsel cited there was a presentation of the commonwealth's evidence commonwealth rested defense called an expert who said that the defendant was not criminally responsible and the commonwealth relied on a cross-examination of that witness and did not call any further witnesses so the motion was filed for a required finding at the close of all of the evidence which is what's required under commonwealth versus lawson which brunette silva sites and is still good law an sjc case 475 mass 806 from 2016 in which the court says that a motion for required finding of not guilty by reason of lack of criminal responsibility may only be brought at the close of all of the evidence not at the close of the commonwealth's case in this case as you're aware defense plans on presenting experts to testify that the defendant was not criminally responsible and then the commonwealth will have a rebuttal case with their own experts so i think the time and place for this for the motion would be at the close of all of the evidence and not now all right well i end up to you to take a look at [01:22:31] Speaker 1: brunette silvera uh so uh based on that and based on the uh standard uh as described uh that i have to apply at this point i'm going to deny uh the defendant's motion um i don't think i have to object but i will [01:22:48] Speaker 6: as we say as we say duly noted yes thank you judge your honor could we in court could i inquire um emily thorndyke is here and has been here i'm just wondering is the government ready for us to do the the voir dire to see if she can testify because she is it's also employed she has patience and has canceled them day after day i'm just inquiring if we're ready to go on that all right so the question [01:23:09] Speaker 1: i think that we have put this over was uh in large part because of the records uh from mclean's we know [01:23:16] Speaker 9: if those are in i've been inquiring of madam clerk if there's been any status from the clerk's office and they haven't received anything we have a call over to mclean they've acknowledged the receipt um they were waiting for a call back from somebody at the office they thought that the records were produced on friday but clearly that wasn't the case so we have a call um we're waiting for a return call i've provided um people in my office the madam clerk's email address to get it expedited as quick as possible so they are working um to try to resolve the issue and the hospital has acknowledged they received the subpoena we just don't have a response yet and i would just also remind that we discussed this last week and talked about doing this tomorrow on tuesday in order to get those records and have time for everybody to get them and review them so that a proper examination of the witness can be done in a [01:24:09] Speaker 1: more day so all right let's let's do this let's do this before we start going at each other um we'll see if the record we'll see if the records come in all right the records come in then we get to determine how long it takes for people to review it and get ready so if we can do that this afternoon great all right if we can't i'll hear from the the parties as to why we can't we may have to do it tomorrow but if we can do that today i do understand um that that witness has been here a number of days um but it's a at this point it's a question of the records coming in um which really is out of both parties hands so if the records are in the parties can get ready uh we'll do that voir dire [01:24:51] Speaker 5: uh if not we may have to do that tomorrow thank you okay all right uh mr reddington ready ready for the jury's uh yeah [01:25:09] Speaker ?: uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh [01:26:37] Speaker 10: uh [01:26:39] Speaker ?: uh uh uh uh uh [01:27:05] Speaker 2: uh you may be seated [01:27:09] Speaker 1: to members of the jury as i indicated before the comment is rested all right so at this time i'm going to inquire of the defendant uh if uh she intends or wishes to uh call any witnesses at this time mr [01:27:30] Speaker 6: reddington yes your honor thank you um please i believe she's right outside [01:27:42] Speaker ?: uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh [01:28:40] Speaker 1: uh [01:28:54] Speaker 6: uh [01:29:09] Speaker ?: uh [01:29:09] Speaker 6: what what town do you live in stoneham and what do you do for work i'm a labor and delivery nurse where at mass general and how long have you been working as a labor and delivery nurse [01:29:21] Speaker 11: um i started on our labor and delivery unit in 2012 [01:29:27] Speaker 6: okay so uh [01:29:28] Speaker 11: about what 24 years no i started for the obstetrics department in 2006 [01:29:34] Speaker 6: okay so 20 years you've been working for mass general between obstetrics and labor and delivery right [01:29:40] Speaker 11: correct [01:29:41] Speaker 6: um do you know lindsay i do how do you know her [01:29:44] Speaker 11: do you know her i was working on the labor and delivery floor when lindsay first started with us [01:29:49] Speaker 6: so this would be the labor and delivery floor and she started as a nurse correct correct who had already been working there correct and she was about what 24 years old roughly and uh came in as a young woman as a nurse correct correct can you tell us um to your odds let me ask you this how many years did you work with her [01:30:11] Speaker 11: she started i believe in 2015 and i worked until 2002 when she went out with callen about seven years [01:30:21] Speaker 6: or thereabouts um did you know that she had a child uh cora yes and did you know that she had a child a baby that was born very very recently um in the years that you were working with her were you able to observe i mean did she like being a nurse did she want to work or was she a good nurse [01:30:50] Speaker 11: what's your opinion lindsay loved being a nurse um she was really good at being a nurse she was compassionate she was kind she was a patient advocate she was the type of nurse that you wanted taking care of you or your loved one when you walked onto our unit [01:31:12] Speaker 6: did you observe for example that on occasion when she would be involved with the delivery of a baby that she would become emotional lindsay was often emotional during [01:31:25] Speaker 11: birth um of complete strangers she would she would cry and she would just say that was so beautiful um you could just tell that she really loved being in that setting [01:31:39] Speaker 6: over those years right up until the time of callen being born fair to say that you stayed friendly with her yes and you're still friendly with her yes can you tell us did you observe during the time you work with her how she emoted or felt about her children all three of them yes tell us anything that you recall [01:32:06] Speaker 11: so lindsay and i worked the night shift together and often on the night shift you get to have an opportunity to really get to know your co-workers and celebrate things that are happening in their lives or support them with things that are not going so well lindsay asked a lot of questions of her co-workers about parenting simple things is she would pull the nursing staff about monogram lunch boxes right down to sleeping habits what questions do you ask a daycare provider to make sure that you're in the right place she was often asking her co-workers child care parenting tips when she had callen after [01:32:53] Speaker 6: callen was born in the spring late spring of 22 did you see her after the birth of kellen i did not see her after the birth of kellen were you aware that she had taken a leave of absence from mass general [01:33:09] Speaker 11: yes did you stay in touch with her by phone or text i briefly kept in touch through text after kellen was born i reached out to her and i asked her for her address and how she was doing so i could send her a gift and then a few months later she circled back to me to thank me for [01:33:29] Speaker 6: for the gift that i had sent her do you recall an incident on one occasion where she was looking or monitoring one of the children and the child was crying and you observed what happened after that [01:33:44] Speaker 11: yes tell us about that um lindsay often checked in on her kids while they were sleeping at night again we worked the night shift and she had the ability to look at her phone and see what core or callen were doing in their cribs and she shared that with a lot of us there was one particular night that cora was crying she was probably about six months old and lindsay never let cora cry she wasn't at that point in parenting and she was very communicative about that and cora was crying on the monitor it was the middle of the night and i maybe after 10 minutes she started to call pat and he wasn't answering and she got really worried that one cora was crying but now pat wasn't answering his phone so in the middle of the night she she called the police to do a wellness check um on her family [01:34:45] Speaker 6: okay um and while you were working the night shift is that pretty much what you both worked together all those years yes would that be through the pandemic as well yes would you say that that was quite a bonding experience being in labor delivery up close and personal with patients during the pandemic [01:35:03] Speaker 11: good night of course it was a very challenging time as a health care provider thank you very much you can [01:35:10] Speaker 5: inquire thank you [01:35:20] Speaker 9: good morning morning so the incident that you just told us about where um miss clancy was watching the monitor overnight um you are aware that the police responded and everything was fine right yes and um you worked with um with her through 2022 when she went out with leave on callen correct and you never visited their house um after count was born did you no you don't know what was going on in her life did did you no and she didn't share any of her struggles with you via text or in any other capacity did she no and as a labor and delivery nurse um and having been trained in labor and delivery and you said you worked obstetrics before correct correct um is it fair to say that you often have patients that come to you in both those areas that have um some mental illness or are on psychiatric medications right sometimes and working labor and delivery um you have some training on how to handle patients that are on certain types of medications right limited training yes well it affects how you're going to birth uh go through a birth plan or or do a delivery if a person is on some sort of long-term medication right right and so you're aware that zoloft is something that's deemed safe for pregnant moms and breastfeeding moms yes and you've had patients that have dealt with um bipolar issues before yes and that they have to remain medication compliant in order to manage those [01:36:54] Speaker 6: things right yes thank you nothing for all right miss brenton your experience dealing with patients that have birth to child as the district attorney asked and are on zoloft and expressing issues of being a parent were you aware of any incidents where lindsay was with you and a woman did in fact express concern that she wanted to hurt herself or her child there there was um a particular patient that [01:37:27] Speaker 11: lindsay was um on staff when this patient arrived it was a a patient that arrived to the unit that had plans to harm herself while she was pregnant and we had a conversation lindsay was brand new um it was the summer that she had just started um and we had a conversation about mental health in pregnancy and postpartum um and and i asked her if she had ever heard of the andrea yates case and she hadn't and i explained that to her and she cried and she said how could a mother hurt her children [01:38:11] Speaker 6: thank you [01:38:14] Speaker 1: i'll say thank you thank you [01:38:31] Speaker 6: council yes your honor um this was good please forward as we go ahead and forward as we do make [01:38:47] Speaker ?: so um [01:39:06] Speaker 8: thank you good afternoon [01:39:20] Speaker 7: good afternoon [01:39:32] Speaker 1: hi good afternoon i'm gonna ask you speak into that microphone keep your voice up okay okay great [01:39:37] Speaker 12: thank you council thank you good afternoon tell us your name please and spell it it's allison osga a-l-l-i-s-o-n last name is o-z-g-a um you know lindsay i do lindsay's my sister and um can you tell us [01:40:00] Speaker 6: are you close to lindsay are you do you live near each other do you socialize what type of relationship [01:40:06] Speaker 12: have you had uh we're very close we have not lived in the same state for about 10 years now um but we do communicate and i do think we're very close and do you text with her on a regular [01:40:18] Speaker 6: basis yes and you talk on the phone do you occasionally um directing your attention to the fall of well yes and let's direct our attention to let's say thanksgiving 2022. had you noticed any change in lindsay's personality or any observation of how she appeared to you [01:40:55] Speaker 12: i will say on thanksgiving in particular is when the first time i saw her in person after quite some time um i had known she had not been doing well via text message communication that we had um i think on thanksgiving she um you know her her mood did not look good her energy you know she didn't seem very energized um it definitely seemed off from how i've seen her in [01:41:19] Speaker 6: the past and were you aware that uh that carried through from november into uh december around the holiday season if you had stayed in touch with her yes and can you tell us what you observed about her around the holiday season as it related to her from your observations and your texting and your communications with lindsay how did she appear to you at that point um the beginning of december it seemed [01:41:48] Speaker 12: like she very much decompensated um i do remember her saying at one point at the beginning of december um something along the lines of i'm in a really tough spot um and knowing what she had shared with me previously about um how her mental health had been struggling um i had this gut feeling that something was off and that she was really struggling and i asked her if she was safe what did she say she said [01:42:13] Speaker 6: yes at that point and you knew her husband pat yes and you knew the kids yes obviously um do you recall around christmas itself and perhaps a little bit thereafter that you spoke with her and that she indicated basically i'm not doing okay yes can you tell the jury what you observed about her demeanor or her symptomology when you said she was decompensating around that time um what were they symptoms in your [01:42:40] Speaker 12: mind of um based on communication with lindsay and i started communicating with pat directly at that time she was reporting her mood was worsening um as she described as depression um her she was having more suicidal thoughts um she was insomnia continued to be an issue um she was really not feeling like [01:43:06] Speaker 6: herself and did you know that during that period of time where she was telling you about the suicidal thoughts and the issue of depression that she was seeing doctors yes and what did she tell you about seeing the doctors and if she was on any medication and if so what effect did they have on it so the first thing [01:43:24] Speaker 12: she said about the doctors was back in october when she said that she saw a doctor for zoloft and had a very awful uh reaction to that zoloft would that be dr tufts um i don't believe she shared that specific with me the name no um and then i think throughout our communication over the couple months of october to december she did share with me that she was going to doctors she was getting different prescriptions kind of all the things that they were trying and different treatments they were looking at and do [01:43:53] Speaker 6: you recall when you were talking with her about her symptoms um towards the end of december that she had in your words decompensated significantly and stated to you that she felt nothing and that she was scared things of that nature yes what else did she tell you if you recall um at the end of december so [01:44:16] Speaker 12: i think it was more along the same of you know that she is really not feeling well her mood is down um she's feeling numb she's feeling hopeless um i believe the very end of the month she told me she had had suicidal ideation every day for a month do you recall towards the end of the month around new [01:44:33] Speaker 6: years that she voluntarily admitted herself somewhere yes you know where she admitted herself uh mclean mclean hospital and while she was at mclean hospital ultimately do you know how she got out of mclean [01:44:48] Speaker 12: hospital uh it was my understanding that she was weaning off of some medication that she was on um [01:44:58] Speaker 6: and then was eventually discharged five days later now did you see her or talk to her after she left mclean hospital trying to wean herself off of whatever medication it was because you don't know what the medication was right i believe it was sarah cool did she tell you anything to the effect that when she got out of the hospital that she felt as though this was a step in the right direction did she seem as though she was trying to be positive about her life yes and tell us about that because up until this point you had observed her decompensating and having these symptoms and suicidal ideation and depression and feeling nothing and scary would she get out of mclean what did she appear to you and what did she [01:45:42] Speaker 12: say to you she i believe she said she felt that that was a good plan and that she was starting to feel [01:45:50] Speaker 6: better so was your sister in your opinion granted she's your sister and you're biased obviously but was she a complainer no and and obviously she didn't share with you in detail her doctors and medicines and things of that nature is that fair no but you were aware of the struggles and the hurt that she was going through yes and then uh through the month of january did you have occasion to see her or were you because we and you still live in different states yes yes i did have an occasion to see her in january when we went to cora's birthday party and that was at the trampoline park yes how did she appear with [01:46:33] Speaker 12: that i think she looked like she was going through the motions of putting together a birthday party for her daughter um but she looked tired she looked like she was still struggling so there was a difference in [01:46:50] Speaker 6: your observation of of what you had known your sister to have as a personality yes and then of course the horrible day um were you aware did somebody call you and tell you that the children had been killed yes one of them still survived and ultimately passed yes and do you recall who told you that yes who was that my mother and as a result of getting the call from your mother what did you do i jumped in the car packed a bag and i sped up to south shore hospital which is where i was told she was did you see her in south shore hospital no um did you know that she was then transferred to another hospital after south shore yes and what hospital was that i believe it was brigham and women's and were you able to visit her in brigham and women's yes and did it take some time before they would allow you to visit with her yes how long if you know i think it was approximately two weeks okay and then you were able to see her pretty much on a regular basis yes and where does one where does your mother and father live in connecticut and you are you [01:48:01] Speaker 3: close to them yes can you tell the of the kids or the safety of your sister to file a report as a [01:48:07] Speaker 13: mandated reporter no thank you miss ray thank you okay thank you let me step down [01:48:20] Speaker 6: i would uh call paula musgrove please [01:48:41] Speaker ?: um um um [01:49:02] Speaker 1: all right good afternoon good afternoon okay i'm gonna ask remind you look i might everybody else just speak into the microphone if you can keep your voice up please okay thank you [01:49:34] Speaker 14: afternoon tell us your name and spell your name please my name is paula musgrove p-a-u-l-a-m-u-s-g-r-o-v-e [01:49:45] Speaker 6: and um this is musgrove fair to say that you are lindsay's mother yes i am lindsay's mother and your husband is here as well in the blue shirt correct yes you've been here for every day for the trial is that correct yes i just have a few questions for you um um obviously you you tell us about about lindsay when she was a kid was she a good kid good student that type of thing she was a very good kid [01:50:13] Speaker 14: and an excellent student very excellent student all through all through school through high school [01:50:18] Speaker 6: college yes excellent ever been in trouble you know law enforcement or schools or discipline or anything no um were you aware of her husband pat yes and obviously you knew when they got married when they were dating and things like that right went to the wedding obviously yes um fair to say that you were close to your daughter and pat yes and you knew obviously the the grandchildren yes um tell the jury how you interacted and felt about your grandchildren i loved my grandchildren with all my heart [01:51:00] Speaker 14: and you never know what it's like to love a grandchild until you become a grandmother and it was the most beautiful thing i love them with all my heart now did you have occasion to see [01:51:16] Speaker 6: um how lindsay reacted and treated her kids as a mother yes and granted that you're her mother so you're obviously biased tell the jury what observations you made of lindsay as a mother through the years [01:51:30] Speaker 14: after cora was born and then dawson and then of course baby calendar lindsay was a very loving mother she was dedicated to her children she was a fun mother she was always doing things for her kids she always wanted to be a mother have many children and it i felt it was the best thing that ever happened to her and she would do anything for her children she was just a loving mother [01:52:04] Speaker 6: now in 2022 uh calendar was born is that correct yes did you stay in touch with lindsay and pat during that period of time the spring into the summer of 2022 yes and how how often would you see them or talk to them or talk to them or what would you do you go to cookouts or you have parties how would you [01:52:26] Speaker 14: um myself and my husband would travel from connecticut to duxbury um at least two or three times a month as well as them coming to connecticut to visit us and did you would you agree that in the summer for [01:52:42] Speaker 6: example of 2022 that lindsay and pat were active with the kids and were pretty happy very happy yes did you observe in the summer of 22 any changes at that point in her personality and the way she was acting with her friends and in society in the summer no and they were having a fairly good good summer yes did you notice at some point a change in lindsay's demeanor yes tell the jury when that was [01:53:17] Speaker 14: um it was sometime probably around the second week of october what happened that you noticed i noticed that she was had become very anxious she was she told me she was anxious about going back to work because calen was having trouble taking a bottle and she didn't feel right about leaving him and as a result [01:53:42] Speaker 6: of that did she tell you that she was going to put off going back to work yes she told me she was applying for an extension now did you know at that point that she was going through any issues involving depression or anxiety or having any suicidal ideation or anything like that at that point no at what point if any did you become aware that your daughter was suffering from this symptomology in late october and how did that come [01:54:10] Speaker 14: about she sent me a text message and do you recall when that was yes that was on october 20th now your [01:54:19] Speaker 6: honor the government has introduced into evidence the entire um of the phone dumps if you will and i think they put it on a disk and it's probably thousands of pages but i do have the text thread that deals with that time frame in october i'd like to offer that so that it's apparent what i'm referring to rather than having to search through thousands of pages of a disk [01:54:51] Speaker 8: okay they may be admitted so approaching [01:55:09] Speaker 6: now the text message that you're referring to um would that be on october 20th of 2022 yes and do you have that on your phone right now i do can you just pull that up for us i can just give me a moment [01:55:30] Speaker 1: okay i have it because did you have a copy maybe that she could look at oh i have a copy yeah that might that might be easier for the witness [01:55:42] Speaker 6: so i'm going to approach you with this board and ask if this is a copy of the text that you're referring [01:55:54] Speaker 14: to yes it is would you read that for the jury mom will you please come up and stay with me for a bit i'm really sick something is wrong i had horrible insomnia all night and i just don't know how i'm going to get through the day i started taking the medicine my doctor prescribed for anxiety and i think it's made things worse it's just really scary and i don't want to be alone [01:56:25] Speaker 1: i don't want to be alone but i don't know if i don't know if i don't know if i don't know you would but we already have the no we're going to mark that for identification the text that is been referred and read to uh is within exhibit 276 which was just off i'm sorry which is what i think was it within exhibit 276 [01:57:02] Speaker 6: which was within that thread that you just offered okay so i will then that would be 276 so that will be over here uh as a result of receiving that text did you then come up hold on a second yeah exhibit w for identification yeah okay oh thank you all right thank you so as a result of that did you come up to duxbury yes same day and tell us about that what happened that day at the end of october [01:57:33] Speaker 14: lindsay lindsay had been i believe she went to the emergency room that day and she had come home she was feeling a bit better she told me that she couldn't sleep she was very anxious and she was afraid and how long did you stay with her at that point yes um i believe at that point i stayed for about a week and was your husband with you um he came later he didn't come direct me with me then because he was still working so he came later i never asked what did you do for work um i worked [01:58:12] Speaker 6: for weight watchers and you're retired yes how about your husband is he working now he recently retired [01:58:20] Speaker 14: and what was the nature of his work he was in photography what kind of photography school picture photography for yearbooks and things like that yeah and school pictures and you had your kids pictures [01:58:32] Speaker 6: taken and he just recently retired yes um is it fair to say that during the month of october into november into the holidays in december that you and your husband would stay with lindsay and the kids [01:58:44] Speaker 14: yes i stayed more than my husband because he needed to go back home to work sure while you were staying [01:58:51] Speaker 6: with lindsay can you tell us your opinion as to her condition was it decompensating was she getting better as time went on through november and december into the holidays through november into december it was [01:59:05] Speaker 14: not getting better into and in and into the holidays and you knew she was on medication at that point [01:59:11] Speaker 6: yes i knew she was seeing doctors at that point yes so tell us uh is there an incident that came to your mind that you recall that uh occurred on one evening that indicated to you how seriously she was [01:59:25] Speaker 14: suffering um there were many um one particular evening that was disturbing to me was that i mean she was afraid she was afraid to be alone and she actually asked if she could sleep with me when was that that was late november early december and did she indeed sleep with you on that occasion she did [01:59:53] Speaker 6: um continuing on through the holidays did you uh you guys get together for the holidays christmas or [02:00:00] Speaker 14: thanksgiving if you recall yes um i was down there probably most of december through um christmas eve and then i left on christmas eve to come home to see my other daughter and her family and then lindsay actually came to my house later the day on christmas day was she with pat yes okay and the kids yes um [02:00:29] Speaker 6: during that period of time did you make further observation as time went into january oh back it up at some point she voluntarily went into mclean hospital yes do you knew that yes how did you know [02:00:44] Speaker 14: that i was there what do you mean you were there i was at lindsay's house staying with them you take [02:00:50] Speaker 6: care of the kids yes and it's fair to say that pat's parents mom and dad also uh stepped up taking care [02:00:56] Speaker 14: of the kids helping out during this period of time they were there i guess when we weren't there i didn't [02:01:04] Speaker 6: really see them but right because you guys would be different time right but you you're all were pulling together as a family is that right january um leading up to january 24th um do you recall and can you tell the jurors what if any observations you made of lindsay and her condition lindsay had lost a lot of weight [02:01:29] Speaker 14: she had become during this whole time paranoid about different things that really she shouldn't have be you know really weren't logical to become paranoid about um she would mention that her this wasn't her mind she would say to me i've never this isn't me i've never been like this before and i would agree because she wasn't um she she was attempting to go through the motions of her day take care of the kids as best she could um she stopped she didn't want to drive so um at times when pat didn't go pick the kids up at school i would drive lindsay to pick the kids up just at school because she didn't she was afraid to drive did she express to you concern that uh in [02:02:22] Speaker 6: this time frame that people at the school teachers and other people would be able to know what she was thinking and would think that she wasn't a good mother because she was sick yes she said the school [02:02:34] Speaker 14: knows some something's going on because i'm not driving my car to you know they see that i'm not [02:02:40] Speaker 6: driving my car to pick the kids up do you recall the end of january that she made a statement to you about the medication in her opinion what it was doing to her mind yes what did she say she said that she [02:02:54] Speaker 14: couldn't remember anything the medication was pretty much just destroying her mind and it wasn't her she said that this isn't me i just want to feel better and enjoy my kids again now i know that this is [02:03:10] Speaker 6: difficult um in december of 2022 do you recall the time that you were in the kitchen with lindsay and patrick and she made a statement about her state of mind to her husband pat and you were there yes [02:03:28] Speaker 14: i know it's difficult just tell us what you remember i remember her being very nervous i remember her saying i just have to tell you guys something and then she told us what did she tell you she told us that she had thoughts of harming the children [02:03:50] Speaker 1: thank you very much why don't we take the afternoon recess at this time we'll come back uh for cross-examination all right so ma'am you can step down thank you all right thank you madam please break thank you your honor good afternoon afternoon afternoon [02:04:29] Speaker 3: now um you testified in direct examination about the statements that lindsay made in december about having thoughts about harming the children was when in december was that [02:04:43] Speaker 14: i don't exactly remember i would say early to mid from december probably early maybe earlier rather than mid-december but i don't exactly remember when okay and when she made [02:04:57] Speaker 3: the statement that she had thoughts of harming the children did either you or patrick ask her what she [02:05:03] Speaker 14: meant by that i believe i remember pat asking her if she felt like she couldn't be alone with the [02:05:09] Speaker 3: children and she said no and after she made those statements did uh did you have any thoughts about committing her no did you have any thoughts about having her come stay with you in connecticut away from the children no were you concerned for the children's safety at that point in time no because i was there and you were asked about some text messages in october and those are now an exhibit i believe exhibit 276 and so you talked about the the text on the 20th when she asked you to come and she was having a hard time right yes a day before on october 19th she had sent you a different text message stating hi mom would you ever consider coming to stay with us for a couple days at a time to help with child care so i can work and talking to a therapist and doing a lot of thinking i actually think going to work will help me but it's really hard with nurses hours to get child care that we need i'm thinking if you could come like sunday to mid-tuesday it would really it'd be really helpful just a thought do you remember that text the day before yes and did you agree in a text message that you you could um you could you said i can come and help out yes and then after that that next day is when she said she was having trouble and wanted you there then and you went that day correct but you you said you were there for about a week but there's a text on october 20th that's not included in this exhibit where on october 24th at 2 36 pm you send a text to her saying how are things today and she responds good remember that yes so were you already home at that point when you were asking her how she was doing on [02:07:17] Speaker 14: the 24th i must have been home at that point i honestly don't remember i was back and forth so many times so the time frames are really jumbled in my head as far as how long i stayed any particular [02:07:29] Speaker 3: time and so you would go and help out when they asked you to and then you would go home when things were calmed down a little bit with is that right um not exactly right no and she did say on the 24th [02:07:43] Speaker 14: that she was doing good that day correct i don't recall but if that's what the text says then [02:07:52] Speaker 3: okay so she told you at that point on the 24th she was doing good right correct [02:08:10] Speaker 1: you could have this page marked as the next piece of it any objection no that may be not [02:08:22] Speaker ?: she was afraid to be alone so she was afraid to be alone so that she didn't want to be alone [02:08:27] Speaker 3: now you talked about a time when you went to her home and you actually ended up sleeping with her because she didn't want to be alone was that that october 20th visit no when was that [02:08:39] Speaker 14: that was i can't exactly remember when i'm going to say probably sometime in november the latter part of november maybe the early part of december did she tell you why she was afraid to be alone she said she was she just said she was afraid to be alone she and one reason i believe she said she didn't know if she was going to be able to sleep but mainly she was afraid to be alone and at that [02:09:02] Speaker 3: point in time did you consider having her committed to a to a psychiatric facility no and did you feel the need to call 911 that day or get her immediate assistance no you mentioned that in january you you saw her and she she lost weight she seemed paranoid about things seemed to be going through the motions of of of each day how often did you see her in january of 2023 [02:09:33] Speaker 14: in january i can't exactly remember how many times i saw her we were again back and forth [02:09:40] Speaker 3: so we have exhibit 238 which have all of your text messages with lindsey in january of 2023 and i just want to go through some of them with you so on page 17 of the exhibit this is on january 4th 2023 so the day before she was discharged from a claim and she sent you a text stating think i'm coming home tomorrow evening exclamation point i talked to the doctor and i made up a follow-up appointment with my other psychiatrist besides rebecca for friday morning so she said she'd be okay with me leaving thursday around five do you remember getting those messages and were you staying at the home helping out with the kids [02:10:38] Speaker 14: at that point yes and did you go to core's birthday party on the 7th i did not it was a children's party i stayed home with callen okay [02:10:57] Speaker 3: and do you recall when you went home i don't recall i'm looking at page 28 and there's a text from lindsey on january 7 2023 at 702 pm to you where it says make it home okay and you said yep does that make sense that you would have gone home on the 7th after the birthday party yes if that's what the text says yes and then on the 20 on page 29 we have text messages between yourself and lindsey on january 8th where you ask how things are going today and she says good going to the science museum you say great that will be fun sleep good last night and she said i actually did with less ativan so that was good do you remember that i don't recall the exact text messages do you recall her uh texting you about going to the science museum not no i don't recall that do you think looking at them might help sure i'm going to show you page 29 and then page 30. [02:12:35] Speaker 14: that's what the text says yes [02:12:40] Speaker 3: and then on page 34 you asked how the museum was today and lindsey sent you some photographs and said it was fun the kids really liked it do you remember that i don't really recall the museum of science [02:13:11] Speaker 14: experience or text but if they're there in the text messages then they were sent yes okay [02:13:22] Speaker 3: then on page 39 this is uh january 10th you say at 9 48 a.m good morning how are you doing today and lindsey responded good at the gym with the kids you said nice still sleeping good and she responded pretty good yeah not perfect but enough and you said are you feeling any better during the day and she said so far a little bit they said a week off the saraquil should make more of a difference so a couple more days till that but i do think it's helping being off and you responded okay a little [02:13:57] Speaker 14: at a time do you remember that conversation so i don't recall the exact conversation i think i probably actually texted back and forth to lindsey almost daily during that time so i don't remember the specific text messages but i would say if they're there then that's what we sent back to each other okay [02:14:23] Speaker 3: and then there were further text messages that day um where you say how was your day later on in the day and she said it was good played with the kids a lot were able to go outside kingsbury club and gymnastics kept them busy and me too so do you remember her talking to during that time about going to gymnastics and going to the kingsbury club and things like that with the children [02:14:52] Speaker 14: i don't remember the specific text but i do remember her doing things with the children yes [02:15:06] Speaker 3: then on january 11th the following day you sent a text excuse me how are you feeling today and she responded with a photo of callan drinking out of a mary lou's cup saying we have another mary lou's fan and you said decaf looks like he's enjoying it and then later on you asked again how are you doing today and she said hi mom doing all right nothing new really just taking it day by day you said still feeling a little better and she said a little bit you said sleeping okay she said not great last night [02:15:39] Speaker 14: because core was up with a bellyache do you remember that so again we texted so many times daily twice daily maybe three times daily so i can't say that i remember the specific text i do i do remember the picture of carolyn with the mary lou cup because that stands out in my mind but the specific text going back and forth we just did it so often that i can't say i remember the specific text you're reading back to me but again if they were there then we shut them right and do you remember uh her lindsey [02:16:11] Speaker 3: talking to you about cora having stomach issues during the month of january yes the belly aches off and on yes and then january 13th again you're checking in with her hi lindsey how are you today she said hi mom pretty good today how about you you asked about the little ones and she said all good went to the gym this morning just hanging out and now they have no school today and then the following day again you're checking in hi lindsey how's your saturday going she said hi mom it's going well just hanging out it's yucky here so these are like daily check-ins that you're doing checking in on her seeing if she's okay seeing if she's feeling better seeing if she's sleeping well things like that right yes you also ask her that day on the 14th do you feel any different since being off the seroquel she says not as much as i was hoping going to talk to my psychiatrist about it on monday she's you say but some she says a little but i still don't feel like you but then she corrects it to me and um you ask her if she's going to be able to get outside with the kids today and she said she's going to try so similar conversations to that where you're talking about medication and how how she's doing on the medication yes then the following day on the 15th of january you say good morning is it a good morning for you today she says good morning it's pretty good going to an indoor water park and she tells you that it's at the cape cotter do you remember them going to the the cape cotter water park i do remember them going there yes and then on the following day on the 16th you actually texted her how was the water park yesterday she said it was fun core and dawson enjoyed calen didn't know what to think of it couldn't get any pics because it was too hectic keeping track of them in the water and stuff and it was busy but it was a good time so that sound familiar that they had a good time that day and you asked her that day if she had anything planned and she said pat took course skiing so she was hanging with the boys do you remember that not specifically i don't remember that text she that same day sent you some photographs of dawson doing a drawing of a firefighter and calen do you remember those receiving those i do remember the pictures yes then the following day again you're checking in every day you say you're feeling better she says a little bit you said still taking the same medication she said yes about to have an appointment with her psychiatrist you said let me know how it goes and she said okay and then she responds back after her appointment she recommended another antidepressant since my mood is still very low off the seroquel you asked her how she felt about it and she told you she just wants to feel like herself again but she's up for for trying it and she just wants to get back to who she was right okay and she told you it was amitriptyline is that right do you remember that i don't remember the medication then on the 18th january 18th again you're reaching out and she says hi mom i'm doing all right how about you and you say you're you're good you're thinking about visiting that weekend and she says that sounds good and um you ask her about being able to get out and exercise and she said she's been walking on the treadmill at the gym for exercise and you asked her if she started a new medication and if she's feeling better and she says feel okay just not great i did start it two nights ago you said is that the one that takes a while to feel the effects she said yup weeks and you said is the okay that you're feeling now better than what you were feeling a few weeks ago and she said yes do you remember that again [02:20:27] Speaker 14: i don't remember the specific text just remember texting back and forth daily about how she's feeling about you know any what's different medication wise but i can't say i remember that specific text that you're reading me but again if they're there then they were done by us right and so on the 19th [02:20:45] Speaker 3: of january again you're checking in and say how are you feeling today um can you tell if anything's different with the new medication she says i'm feeling all right nothing new really yet because it takes weeks to really work but i'm okay you asked if she's still sleeping well and she says decently and the kids get up a lot so again more of the same check-ins daily seeing how she's doing seeing how she's she's sleeping right and then on the 20th you reach out is it pizza movie night she says just pizza and playing and you tell her you're leaving at nine bringing dessert for the kids and she said says sounds great so you're talking about um your visit that weekend is that right yes and in these texts prior to the visit you say that um it's been a while since you've seen them so it sounds like from these texts you're checking in with her every day from january 7 2023 all the way up to your visit on january 21st 2023 you're checking in with her so you're at home in connecticut from the 7th until the 21st correct and then on the 22nd that sunday lindsey pat and the older kids they go to the carney's house for that bonfire and get together and you stayed home with calen right correct and then after after they get home you you and your husband left is that correct and on the way home you texted on january 22nd 2023 at 7 55 pm enjoyed seeing everyone this weekend nice to see you doing [02:22:55] Speaker 14: better is that correct if that's what that says yes that's correct i don't exactly remember the text but [02:23:02] Speaker 3: yes if that's what it says yes so from your text not saying she was doing great but she was doing [02:23:09] Speaker 14: better than she was according to your text or appeared to be the text from me was meant to encourage her because i didn't think it did any good to discourage her so the text was not necessarily what i actually observed that weekend but it was meant to encourage her because i was encouraging her to do things with the kids to kind of try to get back to normal so it's not necessarily a representation of exactly what [02:23:40] Speaker 3: i observed that weekend but that weekend she was able to go to friend a friend's house with the older kids and pat and spend a few hours there correct correct and she was able to do activities and hang out with you and your husband there's a photograph and evidence of the two of you sitting on the couch smiling and hanging out together so you were able to interact with her correct correct the photograph was taken [02:24:04] Speaker 14: by cora because cora wanted to use my phone and take her picture so lindsay and i were going to put a smile on our face and take and let cora take a picture yes but again there was other observations i made that weekend but it was not bet i didn't think it was in lindsay's best interest to discourage her or or point out those because she was making every attempt to feel better and to do things to make herself feel better so as a mother i was encouraging her well you didn't say i hope you feel better or you're gonna [02:24:37] Speaker 3: get there or you're doing it you you actually said nice to see you doing better correct that's what you wrote those were my encouraging words yes and from january 7th through up through january 22nd lindsay repeatedly told you she was doing okay she was feeling a little bit better not completely better not 100 but she kept telling you i feel a little bit better i feel a little bit better you even asked her is the better you're feeling now better than a few weeks ago and she said yes correct that's correct without my observation of her and what she was responding to you in text correct correct you also spoke to the police on january 25th 2023 do you remember that i do do you remember telling the police that lindsay seemed to be improving since leaving mclean [02:25:50] Speaker 14: i do not recall i remember speaking to the police i had just found out what had happened and i was pretty much in shock so anything i remember honestly i remember two things i told the police anything else that you have there i must have said but i'm don't recall them i can on i've been going through my mind i can honestly recall two things i told the police during that interview [02:26:16] Speaker 3: i was pretty much in shock okay so do you remember telling them that she seemed brighter lately i don't [02:26:22] Speaker 1: recall okay thank you all right mr rankton [02:26:52] Speaker 7: oh you mean the ones that you didn't laugh yes [02:27:22] Speaker 6: uh just uh looking here through the exhibits um district attorney stood up and said to you that um i had introduced into evidence and showed you exhibit 276 which would be a list of uh texts dated on october 19th do you remember that it was the black one it was the copies it wasn't green you know that this was introduced in 11th um recall her questioning you from this on october 19th yeah this is the one that i had introduced was in the 276 and the date would be october 19th your text read oh yes yes yes i'm sorry and then she said well there's something missing and went up and said to you this text this text which would be 277 you recall that i'm going to show it to you yes okay so what i had introduced was a text thread from october 19th up through and including october 20th october 20th is that fair to say right there yes okay and the reason i introduced this is because we had introduced earlier like a whole lot of pages text and i wanted to focus on the text thread where she said mommy can you stay sustained so when the district attorney suggested that there's something missing like i left it out or something is it fair to say that exhibit 277 is a totally different date look at the date what is the date that the da is talking about you see it on there 10 23 10 23. it has nothing to do with the text thread that i introduced right it's a day or two after that right right if you know yes [02:29:39] Speaker 1: an instruction oh sure at this point yeah uh so members i just want to give you an instruction one i probably should have given a little bit earlier in the trial as well it's going to apply to this witness it applies to a number of witnesses testified earlier and it's going to apply to a number of witnesses who testify after uh and it's in regards to expert witnesses all right um so generally in cases that are tried in our courts uh witnesses may testify only to facts that are within their own personal knowledge right that's things that they've personally seen heard or felt however in a variety of cases issues arise that are beyond the experiences of lay persons in those type of cases we allow a person with specialized training or experience called an expert witness to testify and to testify not only to facts but also to opinions and the reasons for their opinions on issues that are within that witnesses field of expertise and a relevant material to the case because a particular witness has specialized training and experience in their field does not put that witness on a higher level than any other witness and you are to treat the so-called expert witness just like you would treat any other witness in other words as with any other witness it's completely up to you to decide whether you accept the testimony of any expert witness including the opinions that they give it's also entirely up to you to decide whether you accept the facts that relied on by the expert and to decide what conclusions if any you draw from the witness's testimony you're free to reject the testimony in opinion of such a witness in whole or in part if you determine that the opinion is not based on sufficient education and experience that the testimony of the witness is motivated by some bias or interest in the case you must keep firmly in mind that you alone you alone decide what the facts are so if you conclude that an expert's opinion is not based on the facts as you find those facts to be then you may reject the testimony in the opinion of the expert in whole or in part you must remember that expert witnesses do not decide cases juries do so in the last analysis an expert witness is like any other witness in the sense that you alone make the judgment about how much credibility and weight you give to that expert's testimony and what conclusions you draw from the testimony all right and i'll go into that a little bit more at the end when i go into the more uh uh extensive instructions that i'll give you at the end of the trial all right all right mr [02:32:12] Speaker 6: afternoon afternoon can you tell us your name and spell your uh spell your name it's michael volfevich it's [02:32:21] Speaker 10: uh v as in victor ul f as in frank o v as in victor i ch and um what do you do for work sir i'm an emergency medicine doctor i work full-time at newton wellesley hospital newton wellesley yes and can you [02:32:35] Speaker 6: tell us you're uh are you board certified sir i am i'm board certified in emergency medicine and that would be by the american board of emergency medicine correct and how long have you been practicing [02:32:47] Speaker 10: emergency medicine i did three years of residency and this is my 13th year as a full-time attending [02:32:53] Speaker 6: and you're presently employed uh where is it newton wellesley hospital primarily and then i do some [02:32:58] Speaker 10: additional shifts at emerson hospital in concord how about uh medical school where'd you go to med school st louis university school of medicine and what year did you graduate uh 2011. uh obviously licensed [02:33:12] Speaker 6: in the congo love yes sir um in the course of your uh training and experience sir do you work full-time [02:33:19] Speaker 10: in a particular field of medicine uh just emergency medicine so basically we see any and all comers [02:33:26] Speaker 6: anything from ankle sprains to traumas okay um did i ask you to review some documents regarding this [02:33:36] Speaker 10: particular case involving lindsey clancy you did you asked me to review the uh very what you review oh sorry i asked me to review the photos um from the crime scene and then the emergency medical records from south shore hospital um brigham women's hospital and then the records from her hospital stay at [02:33:53] Speaker 6: brigham women's hospital so in reviewing all of those various hospital records sir you're aware that on january 24th of 2023 she initially was transported to south shore hospital is that correct yes sir and can you tell the jurors uh what what's treatment uh she received at the south shore hospital briefly uh so [02:34:12] Speaker 10: she arrived uh with a gcs of 10 meaning she was not um really very responsive let me let me interrupt you just because that what did you say g6 gcs glasgow coma scale okay slow down because i don't understand what is a gcs uh it's a glasgow coma scale it's a series of things that we look at to determine how responsive somebody is you know whether their eyes are opening spontaneously whether they're able to speak on their own and whether you're able to understand what they're saying and then how much if at all they're moving um whether they're moving spontaneously whether they can follow commands [02:34:45] Speaker 6: that kind of thing okay so the glasgow coma scale gcs of 10 what does that tell you as an emergency room [02:34:52] Speaker 10: doctor tells us that she was not very responsive on arrival um it sounds like she was not speaking intelligibly and the doctors at south shore hospital were concerned about her ability to maintain her own airway and made the decision to intubate her which means putting a breathing tube down her throat into her lungs and placing her on a ventilator and sedating her was she also uh what would be i guess referred to as hypothermic she was what does that mean uh means that her body temperature was below what's considered normal so in her case her core body temperature was i believe 82.1 degrees which would [02:35:28] Speaker 6: put her into severe hypothermia and did you note that she was uh tachycardic and hypotensive yes what did that [02:35:36] Speaker 10: mean uh so it means that her heart rate was above 100 and hypotensive means that her blood pressure was [02:35:42] Speaker 6: below what is considered normal and um social hospital were they able to stabilize her it sounds like [02:35:49] Speaker 10: like they were able to stabilize her um by placing a breathing tube um internet in her throat to help with her breathing and then they basically proceeded to obtain a bunch of imaging started on medications to sedate her and artificially raise her blood pressure they started working on rewarming her and then in conjunction with the trauma team there they made the decision that she would be better served at a [02:36:11] Speaker 6: hospital with a higher level of care okay and can you tell us what the injuries were that she presented [02:36:17] Speaker 10: herself with to the south shore hospital so there are multiple injuries she had lacerations to bilateral wrists when you say lateral what does that mean um bilateral both sides um so she had a laceration both to her left wrist and to her right wrist and then multiple superficial lacerations as well and then she also had multiple superficial lacerations to both sides of her neck the front of her neck and [02:36:40] Speaker 6: two deeper lacerations to the sides of her neck so when you say superficial lacerations and then deeper lacerations do you recall um what's the standard what do you look for in something like that um so [02:36:55] Speaker 10: stuff everybody will describe them a little bit differently in her case i would describe multiple superficial lacerations which would typically mean kind of scrapes on the surface of the skin nothing that actually gets through the full thickness of the skin and then she also had full thickness lacerations meaning that she made it all the way through the skin into the subcutaneous tissue the fatty tissue and then you would need to describe it further if any additional structures were injured which in her case [02:37:20] Speaker 6: they were not now in your experience uh for a number of years in the emergency uh room have you had occasion to treat people that have tried to commit suicide or successfully committed suicide by cutting their throat multiple times multiple times and can you tell us uh in your opinion to a reasonable degree of medical certainty sir as to whether or not this uh injury or these injuries that you observe were consistent with what you've seen in other suicide attempts sustained well uh can you tell us did that look like a an effort to pretend or fake a suicide sustained well when you looked at the injuries did you make a determination that they appeared to have some impact on the human body of uh miss clancy yes what was that uh they were consistent [02:38:09] Speaker 10: with self-injurious behavior um the intent um i can't gauge but um okay um yep thank you um how about the wrist what did you observe about the wrist injuries sir uh so she had two full thickness lacerations one on the left one on the right what does that mean uh means that she made it all the way through the epidermis and the dermis which is what makes up the skin and the wrist and into the fatty tissue which is the next layer [02:38:39] Speaker 6: okay um are you familiar in your experience sir uh with um hesitation wounds in a suicide attempt [02:38:48] Speaker 10: uh yes to some extent what does that mean uh means typically that they're more kind of subtle weaker attempts to hurt yourself not necessarily anything that's going to be deep to the structures of the [02:39:01] Speaker 6: skin but more just scrapes along the surface okay and you notice some of those on the neck area as well is [02:39:07] Speaker 10: that correct there are multiple of those on both the neck and the wrists um as it relates to the injuries [02:39:13] Speaker 6: to the risk the wrists uh did you observe um any uh vascular structures or penetration of the what's cervical strike that the fascia there was not okay um what other injuries did you recall from reviewing [02:39:29] Speaker 10: the medical records uh so she also had multiple fractures in her cervical spine which are the vertebrae that make up her neck including what's called the burst fracture of c1 and then other factors of c4 she also had fractures of multiple levels of the thoracic spine um i believe she had multiple transverse process fractures on both the right and left what does that mean transverse fractions transverse processes are lateral projections basically productions that go sideways off of the bone that allow the ribs to articulate um connect with the spine and they also allow muscles to connect and they help support the basically overall ring structure of the spinal canal and was she then transported by uh med flight or life [02:40:14] Speaker 6: flight to a boston hospital she was um what does that tell you as an emergency surgeon when someone's [02:40:20] Speaker 10: transported by med flight or life flight typically means that her injuries are thought are felt to be severe enough that she needs immediate intervention and further treatment that the hospital that is um basically necessitating the transport is saying that they cannot provide at their facility she was then [02:40:37] Speaker 6: transported to what hospital brigham women's hospital in boston she was admitted to what uh unit surgical icu and you had a chance to review all those medical records as well i did did she suffer a particular event that night that you recall from looking at the records she did uh shortly after [02:40:54] Speaker 10: arriving in the surgical icu it sounds like they were moving her and when they moved her they noticed that her blood pressure dropped her pulse um became faint and subsequently she actually suffered a complete cardiac arrest and required two rounds of cardiopulmonary resuscitation with compressions [02:41:12] Speaker 6: and medications before she was able to be revived and she also to your knowledge had suffered significant hemorrhage and had to have a fairly massive blood transfusion yes they placed chest tubes which are [02:41:25] Speaker 10: basically plastic tubes that go into the chest cavity on both sides and had about 300 cc's of blood come out from each side and there was also noted to be significant hemorrhage around the spine and into the mediastinum which is the portion of the chest that houses a lot of the organs like your esophagus your trachea blood vessels that kind of thing now if there's a fracture or a serious fracture to [02:41:51] Speaker 6: i believe it's c1 does that interfere possibly with a person's ability to breathe it does how does that work [02:41:58] Speaker 10: so if you have a fracture that affects the spinal cord above a certain level typically above the third cervical vertebrae it basically removes your ability to initiate breathing on your own your third fourth and fifth cervical vertebrae the nerves that lead from there are the ones that are responsible for telling your diaphragm to go up and down and help you breathe and so if you lose the ability to send that signal down to your diaphragm you lose the ability to breathe now um as it relates to your review of the [02:42:32] Speaker 6: medical records and review of the history are you aware of the mechanism of the injuries that she suffered that you just described for the jury i am tell us what that was to your knowledge that she went out of her second story window and going out of the window uh obviously did she strike the ground or she did and that caused the injuries the mechanism of injury yes it's consistent with all of her injuries now with your experience sir with as you indicated dealing with people in the emergency room and treating people that have been involved with uh sequential acts of self-harm do you have an opinion to a reasonable degree of medical certainty as an emergency board certified physician as to the effect of the combination of the multiple sequential uh injuries that you saw can i see council said i'm just okay i can withdraw it judge i'll [02:43:25] Speaker 13: withdraw it just thank you very much no questions all right thank you doctor thank you