Full Testimony: Hannah Payne Takes the Stand in Citizen's Arrest Turned Deadly Trial

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: I can. Ms. Payne, please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm any testimony you shall give in this case today shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? I do. Yes, you may. Lower your right hand. Have a seat if you just put yourself up to the mic so that we can all clear that the court reporter can record what is being said. [00:00:31] Speaker 2: You need Christine, attorney Tucker. [00:00:33] Speaker 3: You could just say your full name for the record and spell it out for the course of the night. [00:00:37] Hannah Payne: It's Hannah, H-A-N-N-A-H, Payne, P-A-Y-N-E. [00:00:43] Speaker 3: Okay, and Ms. Payne, where do you, have you lived in a county or Clayton County in close proximity? I don't want to get out of addresses, but have you lived in the majority of your life? [00:00:57] Hannah Payne: I have. I was born and raised in Clayton County and then moved to Fayette when I was eight. [00:01:04] Speaker 3: Do you have any FAMO members that are law enforcement? I do not. Do you recall? What do you do for them? [00:01:14] Hannah Payne: I'm in property management for apartment communities, and I've been in that industry now for going on 10 years. [00:01:24] Speaker 3: Okay, so you came straight out of high school into that. [00:01:27] Hannah Payne: I did. [00:01:28] Speaker 3: And that kind of industry, what do you do for your job? [00:01:35] Hannah Payne: Typically, I'm in the field. I go from property to property, either collecting rent, sometimes walking vacant and or abandoned apartments that could potentially be under construction, and I would show vacant apartments to potential renters. [00:01:56] Speaker 3: So, at times, you were carrying basically tills for your company of a large amount of money? [00:02:02] Hannah Payne: Correct, yes. [00:02:03] Speaker 3: Okay, and you testified that on some occasions or more occasions, you have to show empty properties or empty locations to people that you don't know or that you're told to value coming in? [00:02:19] Hannah Payne: Correct, whether it be vacant apartments or vendors, either or. [00:02:24] Speaker 3: And how do you feel about that? [00:02:28] Hannah Payne: I mean, it's a part of my job. In the beginning, we had smaller properties where I was the only person who was going from property to property. There were occasions that were unsettling, but it was still a part of my job, and the longer that I was with the company, the larger we got, the more properties we received. And the more, I guess, it put me more out alone, by myself, without additional site staff, without anybody with me. [00:03:07] Speaker 3: And they would know that you were going to these sites, correct? [00:03:12] Hannah Payne: Correct. Not exactly which ones. I would be kind of all over the place, depending on which ones I was going to. [00:03:18] Speaker 3: And because you were going to all these different places to meet people you don't know, did you do anything for your safety? [00:03:24] Hannah Payne: I did. [00:03:26] Speaker 3: And what was that? [00:03:27] Hannah Payne: I registered for a concealed carry permit, and when I received it, I purchased a firearm. [00:03:35] Speaker 3: Did your company know about this? [00:03:38] Hannah Payne: They did, yes. [00:03:39] Speaker 3: And were they in support of this? [00:03:42] Hannah Payne: Yes, they were. [00:03:43] Speaker 3: And it was not unusual for other individuals with the same type of work to wear a gun or have a gun? [00:03:51] Hannah Payne: No, not at all. [00:03:54] Speaker 3: And you said you purchased a gun. What kind of gun did you purchase? [00:03:58] Hannah Payne: It was a Springfield, and it was a XD, because it was smaller, so I was able to keep it concealed. [00:04:08] Speaker 3: Okay. And you got a valid permit, correct? [00:04:11] Hannah Payne: Correct. [00:04:12] Speaker 3: What else did you do to help make sure that carrying a permit or carrying a gun on your side would be safe? [00:04:21] Hannah Payne: I would go to the shooting range, and at different shooting ranges they offer kind of like a variety of options, including self-defense kind of classes or tutorials, rather. [00:04:38] Speaker 3: And did you ever take one of those classes or tutorials? I did. And which one did you take? [00:04:45] Hannah Payne: It was a while ago, so I wouldn't be able to tell you exactly, but it was a self-defense training course. [00:04:54] Speaker 3: And in this training, what did you learn from what they were teaching? [00:04:59] Hannah Payne: Just how to properly store your weapon, how to properly remove your weapon, how to make sure that your safety, when doing so, doesn't cause accidental discharge. And they would explain how, when you pull your weapon out, that the way you hold it is determined based on what you're ready to do. In other words, you keep your index finger on the slide until you're ready to pull the trigger. When you're ready to pull the trigger is when you put your finger into the trigger guard. [00:05:43] Speaker 3: All right, now when you say the slide, is that the top portion, the side portion, or is it a combination of both? [00:05:51] Hannah Payne: Like the side. [00:05:52] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:05:53] Hannah Payne: How your hand would normally just rest. [00:05:56] Speaker 3: And is that all that they were training for at that time? [00:06:03] Hannah Payne: For the most part, yes. I mean, they taught us, you know, how to load or unload and smaller things like that, but. [00:06:11] Speaker 3: Have you ever had an accidental discharge of the firearm while loading or unloading? [00:06:17] Hannah Payne: No. [00:06:18] Speaker 3: Okay. And did you commonly wear this weapon? [00:06:22] Hannah Payne: Every day. [00:06:23] Speaker 3: Where'd you wear it? [00:06:25] Hannah Payne: On my person, you mean? Mm-hmm. I had a holster that went inside of my pants, and I wore it on my front right hip. [00:06:33] Speaker 3: Was that visible to individuals? [00:06:36] Hannah Payne: No. [00:06:37] Speaker 3: Okay. And did you do that purposely? [00:06:39] Hannah Payne: I did. [00:06:40] Speaker 3: Okay. And do you recall May 7th of 2019? [00:06:47] Hannah Payne: I do. [00:06:48] Speaker 3: Prior to that day, have you ever had to draw your weapon or find yourself in a position where you would need to? [00:06:57] Hannah Payne: No. [00:06:58] Speaker 3: Okay. So, on this May 7th, of course, you've been hearing these stories. Could you tell us what happened on that day? [00:07:09] Hannah Payne: I can. I was on my way home from work, and I was coming up to an intersection where the light had just turned green. As I was getting ready to turn left, there was a semi that was turning right. Someone ran the red light, and I watched him run right into the tractor trailer. I pulled off to the side, and I got on the phone with 911, just to give an account of what I had noticed. So, I had assumed that the truck driver or someone else that was involved had already called, and they hadn't. [00:07:53] Speaker 3: And if I could stop you right there, you said that you pulled off to the side. Whereabouts? [00:07:59] Hannah Payne: I pulled up onto the curb. [00:08:02] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:08:02] Hannah Payne: Right through the intersection. [00:08:04] Speaker 3: And why did you do that? [00:08:05] Hannah Payne: I wanted to get out of the lane of travel. [00:08:09] Speaker 3: So, there was heavy traffic that day? [00:08:11] Hannah Payne: It was pretty steady. [00:08:13] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:08:14] Speaker 3: And is that where you called the 911? [00:08:17] Hannah Payne: It is, yes. [00:08:18] Speaker 3: Okay, and then what did you do? [00:08:20] Hannah Payne: After I got on the phone with 911, I was kind of explaining everything that I saw, and I started to walk over to the truck driver, because I noticed that there was someone else who had witnessed it, who pulled off to the side. [00:08:34] Speaker 3: And if, I'm sorry, I noticed, you said you walked up to the truck driver. What was that driver's name? [00:08:40] Hannah Payne: I believe Mr. Kimball. [00:08:41] Speaker 3: Okay. All right, go ahead. [00:08:45] Hannah Payne: So, I walked over to the truck driver, and we kind of just were conversing, asking, I don't even know what happened, and he just was confirming that we did have a green light. So, I noticed that someone else had walked over to the other vehicle that was involved and was checking on them. I, after talking to Mr. Kimball for a while, he was on the phone with his dispatch the entire time, and so I was kind of relaying everything that happened so that they were able to hear it from me and not just from him. [00:09:19] Speaker 3: Relaying it to whom? [00:09:21] Hannah Payne: To his job. To his job. [00:09:23] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:09:24] Hannah Payne: So, his supervisor, I would assume. [00:09:26] Speaker 3: All right. So, you're speaking with him, relating to the dispatch about what was going, confirming the light was green for him. [00:09:33] Hannah Payne: Correct. [00:09:33] Speaker 3: And then what else happened? [00:09:34] Hannah Payne: After that, we were kind of just standing there waiting for the police to arrive, and the other gentleman who had witnessed it walked over to us and he introduced himself and said that he was a state officer and he flashed his badge and said that he had checked on the other gentleman and that was asking us, are we okay? Is everybody all right? And actually told me that he had saw where he ran the red light and confirmed it to Mr. Kimball as well. [00:10:09] Speaker 3: Okay. Now, Clara, he came and identified himself as a state officer? [00:10:17] Hannah Payne: Correct. [00:10:18] Speaker 3: Okay. And you've heard a couple of times it being called a correctional officer or another name. Are you sure he identified himself as a state officer to you and to Mr. Kimball? [00:10:33] Hannah Payne: Correct. He told me that he was a state officer. I didn't find out that it was a correctional officer until months later when I found out from you. [00:10:44] Speaker 3: But he did show a badge? [00:10:46] Hannah Payne: He did. Okay. I mean, he didn't pull it off. He just lifted his shirt and we saw the badge and then he continued. [00:10:53] Speaker 3: And how was he speaking to you or how was it to be in there to you and Mr. Kimball? [00:10:57] Hannah Payne: He was trying to make sure everyone was okay. Making sure that we kind of stayed over here and that anything that we could remember that happened, we were kind of going over it with him. But he seemed to be comfortable with the situation. And making sure that all of us felt comfortable, I guess, is the best way to explain it. [00:11:22] Speaker 3: Okay. So, your voice on the 911 appeared to be kind of calm. And so, that was the tone or how you perceived everybody's tone as this was continuing on? [00:11:36] Hannah Payne: For the most part, I think that me and the truck driver were kind of more calm. The officer, the way that he, it was kind of like he was, I don't know any other term other than kind of hyped up. Like he just, he wanted to make sure that he was in charge in a way. [00:12:02] Speaker 3: And what else did he state while you were sitting there waiting on the police to arrive? [00:12:09] Hannah Payne: Well, we were, me and the truck driver were curious because we didn't know what had just happened. It seemed obvious that he ran the red light. So, we were asking him if he was okay and if he was, if there was something going on. And he said, he's okay, but he said he's definitely inebriated. [00:12:27] Speaker 3: Are you sure that's the word he used? [00:12:29] Hannah Payne: I'm positive because it prompted both me and the truck driver to reply simultaneously saying, do you mean he's drunk? [00:12:40] Speaker 3: And did Mr. Kimball's dispatch hear or overhear that conversation or hear the conclusion? [00:12:47] Hannah Payne: I'm not sure, to be honest. [00:12:48] Speaker 3: Okay. So, the state officer said that and it kind of sparked yours and Mr. Kimball's attention. What happened next? [00:12:59] Hannah Payne: Afterwards, we're still standing around probably another maybe 10 or 15 minutes now, additional from the original 10 minutes or so. And me and Mr. Kimball are continuing to speak and the state officer had walked back over. Because at this time, the guy in the truck had got out of his vehicle. [00:13:23] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:13:24] Speaker 3: And when he got out of his vehicle, did the state officer address him? [00:13:29] Hannah Payne: He did. [00:13:30] Speaker 3: And what was it? [00:13:31] Hannah Payne: He was just asking him what was he doing. And what do you, where are you going, you know, just come out of traffic because his truck was still in the lane. So, there were still cars that were passing and he was just basically trying to make sure you need to just come out the way and stay out of traffic. [00:13:49] Speaker 3: So, from your perception, the state officer was remaining calm, trying to direct, at that time you didn't know, but now you do know, Mr. Herring, to be safe and get out of harm's way, correct? [00:14:02] Hannah Payne: Originally, yes. [00:14:04] Speaker 3: And then what continued from there? [00:14:07] Hannah Payne: I couldn't hear what they were saying, but he kind of started walking around and the officers started following him around the vehicle. And you could see him having conversations, but again, I couldn't hear what they were saying. [00:14:22] Speaker 3: And when you said walking around, walking around where? [00:14:25] Hannah Payne: His truck. [00:14:26] Speaker 3: And just in that proximity of just his truck? Yes. Okay, sorry, continue. [00:14:31] Hannah Payne: So, after he was walking around for a little bit, he kind of started, he being the state officer, started to walk back over to us. And he was kind of just giving us this look like, this guy is, there's something, there's something that's up. And before anybody could ask, or either of us could ask him what he meant, he walked back over to him. I was actually on the phone with my family when I was on my way home from work, which I hung up to call the police. So, during this time is when I took that opportunity and I kind of walked back to my vehicle and I was on the phone. I called my family back to let them know what was going on. [00:15:15] Speaker 3: And it was to let them know what's going on or let them know that you were safe? [00:15:19] Hannah Payne: Correct. [00:15:20] Speaker 3: Okay. And is that when you made this second call, the 911 call? [00:15:25] Hannah Payne: It is. I noticed from a distance that it was getting more tension, I guess. Couldn't hear the conversations, but I could see the hand movements and the gestures between the two of them. Again, I don't know what he was saying, but it was almost like he's trying to explain to him something, which is when I told them, I'm going to call you guys back. I'm going to call the police back because something else is going on. Because he started walking towards his vehicle again, like the driver's side at that time. [00:16:01] Speaker 3: And when you called 911 the second time, was it kind of the same manner you did the first time? [00:16:06] Hannah Payne: It was. I was just basically explaining to them what it looked like was about to take place, assuming and hoping that they would say, okay, well, we actually have an officer. He's literally right there. Given the time frame, I would have assumed that someone would have been there by then. [00:16:27] Speaker 3: Okay. How many accidents have you seen before this one? [00:16:32] Hannah Payne: Um, I mean, passed on the road, a few, witnessed firsthand, none. [00:16:42] Speaker 3: And have you ever been in an accident yourself? [00:16:45] Hannah Payne: No. [00:16:45] Speaker 3: Okay. So this is the first time you're encountering any kind of accident really firsthand or close by? [00:16:52] Hannah Payne: Yes. [00:16:52] Speaker 3: Okay. And you get back on the phone with 911, and what occurs then? [00:16:57] Hannah Payne: I'm explaining to them what I thought that we had learned was that the driver who had caused the original accident was potentially drunk. [00:17:09] Speaker 3: And that came from what the state officer said? [00:17:13] Hannah Payne: Yes. [00:17:13] Speaker 3: Okay. Go ahead. [00:17:14] Hannah Payne: And as I'm explaining it to her, I notice that's when he completely gets in his truck. He starts trying to turn it on, and you can hear him, like, revving it to get it to turn on. Um, which I think that all of us were shocked that it even turned on to begin with. And that's when he, he started to drive away. [00:17:36] Speaker 3: And you said you were shocked. Why were you shocked that it started back up? [00:17:40] Hannah Payne: There was fluids everywhere. It was smoking. There was, I mean, it was damaged. [00:17:47] Speaker 3: Was there a major impact? [00:17:49] Hannah Payne: There was, yeah. I mean, the entire tractor-trailer just shifted and rocked when he hit him. [00:17:58] Speaker 3: Okay. And you don't know what speed he was going at going through the red light? I don't. Okay. But you did see the effects it had on the 18-wheeler? [00:18:07] Speaker ?: Mm-hmm. [00:18:09] Speaker 3: And then you are on the phone with 911. You see him jump into his vehicle, revving it up. What happens then? [00:18:17] Hannah Payne: Um, I'm just, basically just telling dispatch that that's what's happening. I am explaining to her. He just got in his car, and she asked me if I was able to get the tag number as he's pulling away. [00:18:33] Speaker 3: Were you able to get the tag number? [00:18:35] Hannah Payne: At that point, I wasn't, no. [00:18:37] Speaker 3: Did it appear anybody had gotten the tag number? [00:18:40] Hannah Payne: No. [00:18:42] Speaker 3: And? [00:18:42] Hannah Payne: They were just trying to get out of the middle of the road. [00:18:45] Speaker 3: So people were trying to get out of the way. Was anybody screaming, get the tag number, or? [00:18:50] Hannah Payne: I mean, at the time, all I could see was the state officer and the truck driver kind of, the state officer was kind of grabbing the truck driver, kind of telling him, you know, to get out of the way. [00:19:02] Speaker 3: Where was this truck driver standing? [00:19:05] Hannah Payne: They were, so if this was the lane where they were turning, and the truck was kind of partially turned, they were standing at the, like, kind of the middle part of the intersection, which would have been the middle part of the tractor trailer, which is kind of in front of Mr. Herring's vehicle. [00:19:25] Speaker 3: Okay. Did it ever appear that any of them might have been in jeopardy of being hit when Mr. Herring was starting up his vehicle? [00:19:35] Hannah Payne: Initially, it's not the first thing that came to, I think, anybody's mind, but then once he started revving it and just kind of took off, then, yeah. [00:19:45] Speaker 3: Okay. And then what happened? [00:19:47] Hannah Payne: So I'm explaining to the dispatch what happened, and as he's pulling off, she's asking me, you know, was I able to get the tag number. Realizing I wasn't able to, I was already at my vehicle, and I got in my, I completely got in my vehicle and went to go pull off. [00:20:07] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:20:08] Hannah Payne: And at that time, the truck driver and the state officer was still standing over in the street, and he started waving me over, like, calling me towards him. [00:20:19] Speaker 3: Okay. And when you got close to him, what happened? [00:20:22] Hannah Payne: He, I asked him, did he go straight? And he said, yes. And he's telling me, he said, go. [00:20:31] Speaker 3: So at that time, you were under the impression that he's a state officer sending you to get the tag, and 911 knows that you're on the way to get the tag. [00:20:41] Hannah Payne: Correct. And he was, when I was in my vehicle, when he was waving me over, his motions were, it was almost like he was waving me on. So when he brought me up, when I got up to him is when he told me to go. [00:20:56] Speaker 3: Okay. And he said, go, or did he say something else? [00:21:00] Hannah Payne: No, he just said, good, go, go. [00:21:02] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:21:04] Speaker 3: All right, so then now you're going in the direction they pointed you, and you're on the phone with 911. Was 911 saying anything? [00:21:13] Hannah Payne: No, she was not. [00:21:15] Speaker 3: All right. [00:21:17] Hannah Payne: I was just, there was kind of silence from the time that she had initially asked me if I had got the tag. I was still kind of getting my bearings, and I just started repeating to her, telling her, okay, you know, he's going down Clark Howell, or Forest Parkway. [00:21:36] Speaker 3: So you never heard them give a warning of not to chase, or? [00:21:39] Hannah Payne: No. [00:21:41] Speaker 3: And having heard the tag, did you feel that you were talking over it, or you just didn't hear it, or? [00:21:50] Hannah Payne: No. I was explaining to her as we were, as we were going down the road, I'm explaining to her what's happening. And from how I remembered it, she asked me again, so were you able to get it? And I explained to her, not yet, but I am about to. And that's when she told me that she just wanted me to be safe. I told her that I understood, and that I wasn't chasing. I was just going to follow, to stay behind him, to stay with him until the police officer could get to us. So I was able to kind of accurately, basically just keep them in the loop, since they obviously weren't there yet. [00:22:36] Speaker 3: Okay. So your impression at that point is that you're just going to get the tag, and then hopefully that'll be it. You just report the tag? Correct. Okay. And did 911 ever come on and say, hey, we've already got the tag from somebody else? [00:22:55] Hannah Payne: No, she never did. [00:22:59] Speaker 3: Okay. So as you're getting up close to get the tag, what happens then? [00:23:06] Hannah Payne: As I'm getting closer, I explained to her that I had the tag, and she basically tells me that this is the way that I interpret it, was that she wanted both of us to go back to the original accident site because police should be there by now. [00:23:30] Speaker 3: All right. Was that, did she say something before that about you just returning, or the only thing you heard was that both of y'all needed to be? [00:23:40] Hannah Payne: Correct. She just told me she wanted me to be safe. I told her I felt like I was safe. And that's when I told her that I was going to stay with them until an officer could get to us. And she said that that's what she wanted me to do. [00:23:53] Speaker 3: At any time, did you identify you had a gun or was carrying a gun? [00:23:58] Hannah Payne: I didn't. [00:23:58] Speaker 3: So you're following the individual to get his tag, and you get it, and then your interpretation of what was said is that you wanted both of y'all to come back to the scene. Correct. So what did you do at that point? [00:24:15] Hannah Payne: At that point is when we had both come up to the intersection, and I saw him stopped in the turning lane. So I turned as well, and when I stopped, I was under the impression, with me having 911 on the phone, that I could just be kind of like a messenger. So I took my phone on speaker, and I took it to him to show him that I had the police on the phone, and I'm telling him they want us to go back to the original accident site. [00:24:57] Speaker 3: At this point, y'all have not made contact, correct? [00:25:03] Hannah Payne: No, we have not. [00:25:03] Speaker 3: So how far do you think you pulled over the distance between you and his truck? [00:25:11] Hannah Payne: Well, he was in the turning lane, and I was in what would be considered the right straight lane. And the distance between the vehicles were probably maybe the width of this table. [00:25:29] Speaker 3: But there was no contact, correct? [00:25:31] Hannah Payne: No, there was not. [00:25:32] Speaker 3: Okay. And did you have any fear that something was going to happen by walking up to him with the phone? [00:25:43] Hannah Payne: I didn't think I had anything to fear. I assumed that having authorities on the phone explaining that to him, that that would just mean, okay, we'll go back. [00:25:56] Speaker 3: Because you had not heard the interchange between him and the state officer, correct? [00:26:01] Hannah Payne: I had not, no. [00:26:02] Speaker 3: Okay. And as you approached him with the phone, how did you have it in your hand? [00:26:09] Hannah Payne: I had it on speaker, and I was kind of holding it like in my palm with it kind of resting in my hand, just like facing him, so that he could see it says 911. [00:26:20] Speaker 3: Now, you mentioned that he was in turning lane and was stopped, correct? [00:26:24] Hannah Payne: Correct. [00:26:25] Speaker 3: Did you cause him to stop? [00:26:27] Hannah Payne: I did not. [00:26:28] Speaker 3: And why would he have been stopped in that lane? [00:26:33] Hannah Payne: The only thing that I could think of was either he was merging and his vehicle finally gave up or that it, but it, okay. So, the way that the lanes merged, I was assuming that he was either waiting for traffic, but then getting up closer, you can see all of the liquid, like underneath the vehicle, you can see the truck is smoking. [00:27:06] Speaker 3: Okay, and you said earlier that it might have just finally exhausted? [00:27:13] Hannah Payne: Correct. I mean, and even when we were back at the original accident site, the state officer, and even the truck driver, but they were adamant that they don't understand how this truck has it just kind of blown, was how they were describing it. [00:27:28] Speaker 3: Okay. So, you're in terms of walking up with the phone, telling, hey, the police are on the phone. What happened then? [00:27:38] Hannah Payne: I was walking up to him, and I am explaining that I'm on the phone with the police, and that they wanted us to go back to the original accident site. It's loud. We're near an interstate. It's a busy road, and I can't hear what he's saying to me, but as I got closer, I heard him asking me, who the F are you? And I told him that I was nobody, but that I had the police on the phone, and that they wanted us to go back to the original accident site. [00:28:18] Speaker 3: Okay. So, you'd explain that to them. Did you have the phone close to you? Did you have it away from you? Where was the phone? [00:28:27] Hannah Payne: It was kind of, not extended, but partially of the way. Okay. [00:28:33] Speaker 3: And what happened then? [00:28:38] Hannah Payne: Apparently, I was close enough for him to reach out the car, and he knocked my phone out of my hand, and he grabbed me by my wrist, and he pulled me into the vehicle. [00:28:56] Speaker 3: Okay. Now, you said apparently you got too close to the vehicle. Did it appear to you you were too close to the vehicle, or? [00:29:04] Hannah Payne: I wasn't thinking that I needed, I had to quit space to stay away from him or anybody or anything. [00:29:15] Speaker 3: Okay. And then you said he knocked the phone out of your hand. [00:29:18] Hannah Payne: Yes. [00:29:18] Speaker 3: And then he grabbed you. You said one was on your wrist, and where was the other hand? [00:29:24] Hannah Payne: Um, and originally he had just grabbed my wrist. And he had pulled me in the car, and at some point, my shirt had gotten grabbed. Okay. Um, and he... [00:29:39] Speaker 3: Go ahead, I'm sorry. [00:29:45] Hannah Payne: He was pulling my wrist, and he was pulling me in the vehicle, and he kept yelling at me, telling me, I have something for you. Um, and he used... I have some... Pardon, but I have something for you, bitch. And he's leaning, and he's reaching, and he's pulling. Um, and at this point, I remember that... I'm, I'm sorry. [00:30:19] Speaker 3: Take your time. [00:30:20] Hannah Payne: I remember that he had let go of my wrist, and he grabbed me by the back of my neck. And it was as if he was trying to kind of keep a hold of me. Um, the entire time I'm telling him, I'm, I'm thinking... I'm still have to be on the phone with the police. They have to know. Um, I'm telling him to let me go. And that's when he hits the gas, and we go forward. Um, I'm still in the car at this point, and while it only may have been a few steps or a few feet, Um, when you are being held against your will, and you have no idea what's ahead of you, and you're looking down, it felt like it lasted forever. And I just remember, it was like I saw, like, my light flashed before my eyes, and I thought I was going to go down Riverdale Road. Um, out, hanging out the side of this car. [00:31:37] Speaker 3: And the whole time, are you trying to get away from this situation? [00:31:42] Hannah Payne: I'm trying to pull away from him, yes. [00:31:43] Speaker 3: And how did you do that? [00:31:45] Hannah Payne: Um, I, my entire body was up against the vehicle, and I'm just trying my hardest to push away with any part of me that I can, whether it was my arms or my knees, trying to just put distance between me and the vehicle, thinking I could get away from it, and, uh, it was unsuccessful. [00:32:05] Speaker 3: And at one part, you hear yourself screaming, get that out of the car. Um, what was going on then? [00:32:12] Hannah Payne: I'm thinking that I have a better chance of not being drugged if he's not in the vehicle. I'm thinking that I have a better chance of not being drugged if he's not in the vehicle. [00:32:22] Speaker ?: I'm thinking that I have a better chance of not being drugged if he's not in the vehicle. I'm thinking that I have a better chance of not being drugged if he's not in the vehicle. I'm thinking that I have a better chance of not being drugged if he's not in the vehicle. I'm thinking that I have a better chance of not being drugged if he's not in the vehicle. I'm thinking that I have a better chance of not being drugged if he's not in the vehicle. I'm thinking that I have a better chance of not being drugged if he's not in the vehicle. I'm thinking that I have a better chance of not being drugged if he's not in the vehicle. I'm thinking that I have a better chance of not being drugged if he's not in the vehicle. I'm thinking that I have a better chance of not being drugged if he's not in the vehicle. I'm thinking that I have a better chance of not being drugged if he's not in the vehicle. I'm thinking that I have a better chance of not being drugged if he's not in the vehicle. [00:33:07] Speaker 3: What I hold here is a bag that's been labeled with evidence that we're going to call it defense. Exhibit number 39, 38, 39. Okay, and as you can see, it is concealed and not open. At this time, Your Honor, I'm going to approach the witness, although I'm not sure until I open it. Do you see the writing on this right here? [00:33:43] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:33:44] Hannah Payne: Okay. [00:33:45] Speaker 3: Does that identify an article of clothing? [00:33:49] Hannah Payne: It does. [00:33:50] Speaker 3: Okay, and at this time, I'm going to open the evidence. Does this appear to be... [00:34:14] Speaker ?: Okay. Is there an objection? Okay. Is there an objection? Yeah, I mean, if that's in your... I'm going to tell you what she's saying. I'm going to tell you what she's saying. Okay. I'll show it to her. [00:34:22] Speaker 3: At this time, Your Honor, may I approach? [00:34:36] Speaker 5: May I approach. [00:34:37] Speaker 3: Do you see this shirt? [00:34:39] Speaker 5: Yes. [00:34:40] Speaker 3: Does that shirt look familiar to you? Yes. Is it an accurate representation of the shirt you were wearing that day of the... Yes. [00:34:47] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:34:48] Speaker 3: At this time, Your Honor, I would like to tender women's exhibit defense 39. [00:34:54] Speaker 2: Yes. Any objection from the state? No objection, Your Honor. Admitted without objection. [00:34:58] Speaker 3: And I would like to present it to or show to the jury the shirt she was wearing on the day of the incident. Was it torn when you were wearing it that day? No. When Mr. Herring grabbed you, did he tear it? Yes. And is this a fair representation of the ribs? The ribs and what it ended up being at the end? [00:35:26] Speaker 5: Yes. [00:35:30] Speaker 3: Along with the ribs and that shirt, was there any other part of your body that had any kind of marks from where he grabbed you? [00:35:39] Hannah Payne: Yes. [00:35:40] Speaker 3: Okay. Where were those? [00:35:42] Hannah Payne: I had marks on the back of my neck and kind of scratches along my arms, bruising, on my wrists and scratches along my chest. [00:35:58] Speaker 3: Okay. Anything in the facial area? [00:36:01] Hannah Payne: Yes. I had a kind of a black eye, but a bruised eye and a busted upper lip. And other, I guess, like sore spots like bruising and redness around the edges of my face. [00:36:21] Speaker 3: And all of this occurred while he was dragging you forward towards your vehicle? [00:36:26] Speaker 5: Correct. [00:36:27] Speaker 3: Okay. Okay. Okay. And you said he was making a statement to you of, I've got something for you. Was there any other statements made that you can remember this time? [00:36:39] Speaker ?: No. [00:36:40] Hannah Payne: He just kept telling me that kind of over and over again. And that I was nobody. Okay. [00:36:47] Speaker 3: Now, what was he doing in the vehicle while this was all going on? [00:36:54] Hannah Payne: Before, before he punched the gas is when he was kind of turning his body and he was reaching, like reaching behind him. [00:37:07] Speaker 3: Did you see what he was reaching for? [00:37:09] Hannah Payne: No, I did not. [00:37:10] Speaker 3: Did you see any of the contents of the inside of his vehicle? [00:37:14] Hannah Payne: During, no. Okay. I could see that there were things everywhere, but other than that, I didn't really. [00:37:21] Speaker 3: Have you ever experienced anything like that prior to this incident? No. Okay. And then what happened then? [00:37:30] Hannah Payne: Well, after the reaching is when he mashed the gas and when he mashed the gas, I, like I said, have no understanding of how far we went, how much further we can go. At that point, I didn't know that we had stopped because we hit my vehicle. And that's when I drew my weapon. [00:37:55] Speaker 3: Now, you said mashing the gas. What did that sound like? [00:37:59] Hannah Payne: Uh, you could hear the, the truck just revving and hissing from like the, um, liquids spewing and it was, I mean, it was loud. Okay. [00:38:14] Speaker 3: And you stated that then you said you have a gun? [00:38:19] Hannah Payne: I did. [00:38:20] Speaker 3: And what was your intent at that point? [00:38:23] Hannah Payne: Um, my intent was that pulling it out, he would let me go. And I'd pull away from the vehicle and that would be it. [00:38:32] Speaker 3: Did you ever stop trying to pull away from the vehicle? No. And explain to me how you, uh, pulled your gun out, uh, at that time. [00:38:45] Hannah Payne: Um, it was in my holster on my right hip. And he had a hold of me and I just, I, I pulled it out and immediately started trying to just continue to push against the door with it, like pushing away from him. Okay. [00:39:04] Speaker 3: And as you're pushing away from the door, what happens then? [00:39:08] Hannah Payne: Um, he grabbed my hand with a gun in it. Okay. [00:39:14] Speaker 3: Let me, let me, let me go. Which arm did you pull or which hand did you pull the gun with? [00:39:18] Hannah Payne: It was my right hand. My right hand. [00:39:20] Speaker 3: Okay. And you said he grabbed your wrist. Which wrist? [00:39:23] Hannah Payne: He grabbed my right wrist. All right. [00:39:25] Speaker 3: And how did he have that wrist? [00:39:27] Hannah Payne: Um, well with one of his hands, he actually grabbed my wrist to pull it towards him. [00:39:33] Speaker 3: Could you tell which hand or arm he had grabbed your wrist with? [00:39:38] Hannah Payne: Um, it was his left. Okay. Because he had a hold of him. He, he had released me with this hand from my neck to grab me with this hand. Okay. [00:39:49] Speaker 3: And the gun that was outside the door that you're pushing away from, he got a hold of that, correct? Correct. And what happened then? [00:39:57] Hannah Payne: Um, after he originally grabbed it and was kind of pulling at it. Back and forth is, um, when he put his other hand on top. And he started trying to actually yank it away from me. Um, and then he started to trying to turn it, to pry it almost. Like he was trying to pry it out of my, my hands so that he could take it away. And? [00:40:22] Speaker 3: Which angle was he trying to pry it out of your hand? [00:40:26] Hannah Payne: Um, like away from me. So it was this way. Okay. [00:40:31] Speaker 3: Okay. And that obviously is not the way your wrist is supposed to move, correct? Correct. Is that what caused the bruising or the? It is. Okay. And you said he's trying to push it this way and pry it out of your hands? [00:40:48] Hannah Payne: To me it's what it felt like. Like he was trying to pry it out of my hand. [00:40:51] Speaker 3: And you said another hand came over and grabbed it? Yes. [00:40:55] Hannah Payne: Okay. [00:40:56] Speaker 3: From the top. Your Honor, so that, uh, I can get a good understanding so the jury can see it. If I may approach, do a demonstration of what she's saying. You may. [00:41:08] Speaker ?: This is a toy gun. Toy gun. [00:41:09] Speaker 1: Um. [00:41:10] Speaker ?: And even though it's a toy gun, it does have a slide on it. [00:41:10] Speaker 3: As you can see that they can pull it back. There's nothing in this gun, it's a toy gun. [00:41:15] Speaker ?: So, this is the gun that you have. He was pointing it, say I am him, in his seat. [00:41:15] Speaker 3: How was he, how did he have your wrist? Like this? [00:41:17] Speaker ?: This hand was here, yes. [00:41:18] Speaker 3: Okay. And the gun was here, he was pulling you forward. Yes. And the gun was here, he was pulling you forward. Yes. And the gun was here, he was pulling you forward. And the gun was here, he was pulling you forward. Yes. And the gun was here, he was pulling you forward. Yes. And the gun was here, he was pulling you forward. Yes. And the gun was here, he was pulling you forward. Yes. And the gun was here, he was pulling you forward. [00:41:33] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:41:34] Speaker 3: And the gun was here, he was pulling you forward. Yes. And the gun was here, he was pulling you forward. And the gun was here, he was pulling you forward. And the gun was here, he was pulling you forward. How was he, how did he have your wrist? Like this? [00:41:42] Hannah Payne: This hand was here, yes. [00:41:43] Speaker 3: Okay. And the gun was here, he was pulling you forward. Yes. And you said he had you here or this? [00:41:49] Hannah Payne: He was closer. [00:41:50] Speaker 3: All right. So, and he had your shoulder with this hand or what was this hand? [00:41:54] Hannah Payne: That, he let go. [00:41:55] Speaker 3: He let go? [00:41:56] Hannah Payne: Once he got a hold of this wrist. [00:41:57] Speaker 3: So he came? And he grabbed the gun. All right, he tried to grab the gun like this? Correct. [00:42:02] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:42:03] Speaker 3: And where was your finger? [00:42:05] Hannah Payne: The same way that I have it now. [00:42:07] Speaker 3: And when he grabbed like this, that shows his fingers are right there over the trigger? Correct. Is that a correct? [00:42:14] Hannah Payne: I mean, yes. [00:42:16] Speaker 3: So it was possible any of the four digits got into that trigger? Correct. Yeah. Okay, thank you. So that occurred and he's gradually done like that. What happens next? [00:42:32] Hannah Payne: He's pulling at it, he's pulling at it and I'm just yelling at him to stop, thinking that if I could just get away, it'll just be over, I guess. [00:42:46] Speaker 3: Were you saying anything to him at this time? [00:42:49] Hannah Payne: To stop? [00:42:50] Speaker 3: Were you saying it loudly? [00:42:52] Hannah Payne: Yeah, over and over again. Yeah, I was screaming it. Okay. [00:42:56] Speaker ?: And then what happened? [00:42:57] Hannah Payne: As he's turning it towards, like that way, I'm being pulled and pulled and I can feel myself like pressing up against the car, like my face is up against the door. And as he's pulling it is when the hood went off. [00:43:22] Speaker 3: Okay. And you saw the pictures that showed your hand kind of pulled back. Why would your hand or arm been pulled back like that? [00:43:31] Hannah Payne: After it went off, my entire body kind of fell backwards, like I was almost like I was falling over and I was trying to catch my balance. And my arm was turned so far in that once it went off and I was released, it just kind of sprung back. [00:43:52] Speaker 3: What was going through your mind at that time? [00:43:56] Hannah Payne: A lot. I knew that I was still had to be on the phone with 911 and that I was just trying to get away from where I've been trying to get away from for the last however many minutes and that I needed to communicate back to 911 what happened. [00:44:21] Speaker 3: So you picked up the phone and? [00:44:24] Hannah Payne: I turned and I picked up my phone that was on the ground and I told her what happened. [00:44:32] Speaker 3: Okay. At any time, did you look around for a shell? No. To pick up a shell? No, I did not. Were you concerned about a shell? [00:44:42] Hannah Payne: I was not at all. Okay. [00:44:44] Speaker 3: And when you got on the phone with 911, you stated that he pulled the trigger? Yes. And what else did you say? [00:44:53] Hannah Payne: To her, I had told her that he had just pulled the trigger on my gun. And I remember kind of looking around and I noticed behind me that there was someone who was standing behind me and I asked them if they seen everything, if they would stay to, you know, be a witness. And he was asking like if we were okay and he's like, are you okay? Is everything okay? And I told him, I said, I mean, I am, but no, he's not. And I asked, I asked the dispatch for an ambulance. [00:45:35] Speaker 3: Okay. Okay. So your concern at that point was to try to get dispatch to send an ambulance out? [00:45:41] Hannah Payne: Correct. [00:45:42] Speaker 3: Did you look around to see if anyone were close? I did. [00:45:45] Hannah Payne: I did. And I, that's when I noticed that there were actually, I mean, there were police that were, to me, felt so close that all of this could have just been avoided. [00:46:00] Speaker 3: But you had no foresight or any kind of anticipation that it would conclude like this? [00:46:07] Hannah Payne: I had no idea. [00:46:10] Speaker 3: And it appears that a lot of witnesses did come up to confront you or to say what they thought they'd saw? [00:46:20] Hannah Payne: I mean, originally, everyone that was standing around, they weren't, they weren't like saying anything direct. Everyone was asking each other what happened. Everyone was trying to figure out like, well, where did this car come from? And how did this happen? [00:46:39] Speaker 3: Did any of them or one particular stick out to you? [00:46:45] Hannah Payne: Only the one that was right next to me because I, I was assuming that he saw the whole thing. [00:46:50] Speaker 3: Did you know his name at that time? [00:46:52] Hannah Payne: I did not. [00:46:53] Speaker 3: After seeing him get up and testify, do you know his name? I do. And what was his name? [00:46:57] Hannah Payne: Uh, Cameron. Cameron. [00:46:59] Speaker 3: Cameron. Williams. [00:47:01] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:47:02] Speaker 3: And he did stay around? [00:47:05] Hannah Payne: Um, he did. I don't know where he went exactly. He kind of started to walk around where everybody else was. Um, and it was like, I was still on the phone with 911 and I'm trying to explain to her what's going on. But at this point, I just, I'm kind of in a bit of a daze. I didn't, it was all over the place, honestly. [00:47:29] Speaker 3: And what did you do with the gun? [00:47:30] Hannah Payne: Um, I reholstered it. I took the holster off my hip and I put it back in the holster. Okay. [00:47:38] Speaker 3: And did it stay in that condition until the police came? [00:47:41] Hannah Payne: It did. Um, I remember looking up and seeing that there was a police officer who was coming up from where he would have been at like the interstate area. Um, and as he was walking up, I was trying to get his attention because he was like walking towards all the bystanders, having no idea what was going on, having no idea who was involved with what or where or how. Um, and I was trying to get his attention so that he knew here's the weapon so that he could have it. [00:48:13] Speaker 3: All right. Now you said that a lot of crowds were saying stuff, trying to confirm what had happened. Uh, did you hear all that they were saying? [00:48:22] Hannah Payne: Um, it was more a bunch of kind of questions. Um, after the police officer had come up, one of the people that was standing there were basically, again, asking what had happened. And did you, and she, she asked me, she said, did you just shoot him? And I told her, I said, no. I said, he, he pulled me into the vehicle. He had a hold of me, but that I never had my finger on the trigger. [00:48:59] Speaker 3: And why is that? [00:49:02] Hannah Payne: Um, I mean, number one from training and number two, I never had any intention on pulling the trigger. [00:49:13] Speaker 3: And in fact, you never did pull that trigger, did you? [00:49:15] Hannah Payne: Correct. [00:49:17] Speaker 3: Now, the officers, of course, came up, took your gun. And was there another officer that you encountered at that time? [00:49:25] Hannah Payne: Um, there was, I was standing on the sidewalk. I was just trying to stay out of the way. And the original officer who I handed my, uh, my gun to, um, went into Mr. Herring's truck. And the other officer had come up, and everyone was kind of like, you know, pointing towards me, basically. And he walked up to me and just told me that until they could figure out what was going on, that I would be detained. [00:49:58] Speaker 3: So, as you said, kind of this fog's going on and you're in shock. Um, did you ever see that there was an opportunity to try to render assistance, or did that even cross your mind? [00:50:12] Hannah Payne: From the time that it happened to the time that the police officer got there, Um, the initial response for me was, I was away from this vehicle. And I wasn't trying to interject myself back into a situation that I had just got away from. [00:50:33] Speaker 3: Yeah. And when the other officer detained you, did you, did he put you somewhere? [00:50:40] Hannah Payne: Um, he did, in the back of the police car. [00:50:47] Speaker 3: Um, I'm going to take a recording or video of what occurred with you in the backseat. It may take you a second to use this technology. If you want to take a break or if you're ready to go. [00:51:11] Speaker 2: You may proceed, attorney. [00:51:13] Speaker 3: When we left off, I'd ask what happened once the officers came up. Officer Richie took your weapon, correct? Correct. And then another officer came and got you, was taking you to the car? [00:51:29] Hannah Payne: Um, correct. I mean, there was a little bit of time that went in between that. But from him taking my weapon to me walking, trying to stay out of the way. Um, and I just remembered kind of going back and forth with the witnesses, talking about, again, them asking what happened. Um, and I remember yelling for one of the officers, um, to come on, to come up. Um, and that we needed an ambulance. I was asking where the ambulance was. [00:52:01] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:52:03] Speaker 3: And you do recall being placed in the back of a car similar to this, correct? Um, yes. And there was a video that you've seen prior to today that shows what happens in this video, correct? Correct. And I will show you a small bit and then I'll stop it so you can confirm that that is the video that you recall of the interview with you after the, after being put in the vehicle. Okay? Okay. [00:52:33] Speaker 6: Okay. Oh yeah, you don't get there. I ran up there. I ain't no fool. Yeah, appreciate it. All right. How you doing, ma'am? [00:52:43] Speaker 3: So you said you recall that situation happening? That's fair, accurate representation? [00:52:48] Hannah Payne: Of him walking up to the car. [00:52:50] Speaker 3: And then, from what's going to occur here, I would like you to listen, please. [00:52:54] Speaker 6: I'm sorry to marry him because we had a police department. All right. Okay. Can you just, you can just, you can just, you can just, you can just, you can just talk to me and tell me what happened. Okay. Okay. Take your time. Okay. [00:53:09] Speaker ?: Take your time. Okay. Take your time. Okay. Take your time. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. He was turning left. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. [00:53:40] Speaker 6: He ran to the semi? Okay. Okay. Okay. [00:54:10] Speaker 5: Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. [00:55:09] Speaker 6: Okay. [00:55:16] Speaker ?: Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. [00:55:33] Speaker 5: Okay. I was grabbing me, but after I took my phone back, I said, I don't know what I said. You can pull your phone back, and it's that. It has to be started to come, and she started to change the question, which is when I had read, I told my head, and I told my head, and I told my head, and I said, I said, I have not had a decision. And that's what he said, and he's like, you were going to do it, and I said, I can go put it back. As I was trying to yell the way, you know, we started to come up here, and we're still going back in the corner, and we still have a holding hand. What did he have a holding hand? [00:56:11] Speaker 6: Okay. Your hand? [00:56:12] Speaker 5: My hand. [00:56:13] Speaker 6: Okay. How did you grab your wrist? Did you read some kind of digital, or what? [00:56:16] Speaker 5: Out of the moment. Like coin? [00:56:19] Speaker ?: Like coin? [00:56:19] Speaker 6: Yeah. [00:56:19] Speaker 5: I was telling people over. So, I mean, I was up at, I was at that table, and when he was driving, I was going to be, I was going to hold my shirt, and when I got closer to him, and I was going to be, I just want to. I don't know, but that's where I wanted to take the reception. [00:56:46] Speaker ?: Okay. Okay. That I, I mean, that he. Go ahead. [00:56:50] Speaker 6: All I need is a question. You don't got to know that, because they're going to, they're going to talk to you, but CID, I just need to know what came up between when the weapon was fired. [00:56:57] Speaker 5: Uh, I pulled, I pulled out, and I pulled it out, and I pulled it out, and I pulled it out, and I pulled it out, and I pulled it out, and I pulled it out, and I pulled it out. I didn't want to pull the trigger. He's not, he's not having anything in his hand, and I can feel it in Jesus, and he doesn't have anything on it. But, we grabbed my hand, and we got going back and forth in the car, and he pulled it in, and he turned it into our feet, and he grabbed it, and all that, and that's what I do, and it went on. [00:57:33] Speaker 6: Okay. Okay, actually. All right. I think she feels like her, we can talk to her. All right. [00:57:38] Speaker 5: I, I, I, I stood back. I told him to move around, I'm going to need to sit still. That's when I was young with the dispatcher, but I could come back around, and I put it back and forth, and I didn't stay in that way. [00:57:50] Speaker 6: Well, you're on the phone and get back at that time, oh, the whole time? Okay, all right. [00:57:54] Speaker 5: And I was, um, when you came around the corner, and I put my hand on the computer, and I put my hand on the computer, and I put my hand on the computer, and I put my hand on the computer, and I put my hand on the computer. [00:58:03] Speaker 6: Okay, all right. [00:58:05] Speaker ?: All right, thank you. Okay. [00:58:07] Speaker 3: having heard that um is that what your recollection of the count how it happened minus details generally well well how are you feeling at that time [00:58:37] Hannah Payne: it was overwhelmed i mean i didn't know what was really going on um is that why i'm scared [00:58:49] Speaker 3: is that why you wanted to call your parents okay and they had some pictures earlier that were presented if i may approach your honor you may did you show it yes i did i should okay what i have here is exhibit number 27 28 29 all the way through 30 35. we've all seen those when i entered them into that is correct yes let's go in chronological order okay does this look like a fair and accurate representation of where it appears you were scratched yes okay is that where when you said he was reaching for your head or trying to pull you in that's where the marks came from yes they didn't come from putting a sweatshirt on did it no it did not okay and this is defense exhibit number 28 do you recall this yes okay and this area here is that is that what is that it's my wrist is that where the swelling or what yes if that's your right hand um i believe so yes okay and that would be swelling for why what reason oh there was swelling [01:00:48] Hannah Payne: on both but on this side it was from where i was grabbed but then my right wrist is where it was being like twisted and pulled okay and grabbed is this another [01:01:10] Speaker 3: another photograph of how your shirt ended up yes that day yes okay and when they were taking pictures [01:01:23] Hannah Payne: they took a picture of here what was going on there um you can't really tell in this picture but um it was starting it was it was hurting like it was starting to swell and there's irritation around it i guess you could call it okay and do you recall them pulling out [01:01:51] Speaker 3: a ruler to measure the marks on the back of your neck yes okay and you recall taking pictures of your hand there yes okay and describe what was going on there [01:02:19] Hannah Payne: um there were like scratches and marks all along my hands and on my fingernails um there were a couple of them and to try and remember now i don't remember which ones but there were a couple of them that had were broken off when all of this was happening and there's some marks over here do you recall what those marks were um the one right on the top was where um detective moore basically was asking me if i was showing her where it was hurting and in that area she wanted him to document that it looked like a like a busted blood vessel okay [01:03:07] Speaker 3: and do you recall seeing this being presented into evidence i do did you ever see that in the vehicle not at the time no but was that the biggest nightmare you had if that was in the vehicle [01:03:25] Hannah Payne: yes [01:03:33] Speaker 3: is there anything else i want to tell you is there anything else you can remember about that incident that you might have missed from seeing the back of the truck or back of the police car and speak with them in those pictures [01:03:57] Hannah Payne: small details don't really resonate very well um i mean it's been the only thing that i've thought about for the last four and a half years but it's not um details no nothing that i can think of [01:04:17] Speaker 3: now did you get an opportunity to speak to other officers um yes i did all right and who was that [01:04:28] Hannah Payne: after i was taken to the police station um they put me in a interview room um and eventually a detective hayward um came in and introduced himself and said that he was waiting [01:04:45] Speaker 3: on his partner do you recall whose partner was i was detective moore okay and do you recall how that [01:04:54] Hannah Payne: interview went um i remember feeling like i was waiting for hours i didn't know what was going on um i hadn't talked to anybody since it happened other than the police officers and i just i just remember like feeling like i was waiting for forever and i had no sense of time or even or what was going on all right [01:05:28] Speaker 3: while you were waiting did you do anything while you're waiting and sitting there alone [01:05:34] Hannah Payne: um i remember pacing and that's when i i noticed that my nails were broken um so i started messing with my fingernails i started like taking them off one of them i remember was hurting which is what made me [01:05:51] Speaker 3: realize it was broken okay and do you recall any of the conversation between detective haywood and more [01:06:01] Hannah Payne: that interview not really i remember that to me it seemed like they they would kind of go back and forth between one being more interested than the other um and they kept asking me the same things over and over again um but every time they would ask me they would kind of insinuate like a a different narrative um which to me i'm i'm thinking that there's an obvious explanation that everybody that could have been that was standing around would have been able to see what i said happened um so to me i didn't feel [01:06:45] Speaker 3: like it was i guess logical so i was just confused okay and you said they were insinuating that there was a different answer or i don't can you give an example of that i mean if just trying to change like my wording [01:07:05] Hannah Payne: trying to instead of when i explained to them that i was at the side of his vehicle um when they went back to repeat what i had said they they said so you you reached in his vehicle to show him your phone or something like that and i just remembered no i that's not what i said i was trying to tell them exactly what happened they kept stopping me and then they would try and turn [01:07:29] Speaker 3: what i was saying um and then they'd pass it back to the other person at any time during this interview did they tell you what was going on with mr herring no they didn't know what said his status or never [01:07:45] Hannah Payne: no and i remember asking detective hayward um in the beginning kind of you know is what's going on is have you have you talked to anybody else like insinuating can you tell me anything and he just said i feel like he kind of brushed it off and just said that he would have to see um and that's when i asked about calling you know like my family so to your knowledge through this whole interview you didn't [01:08:15] Speaker 3: know the status i never knew no and you were getting questions as you said both sides correct how did that make you feel [01:08:30] Hannah Payne: um in the beginning when i was telling them what happened i thought it was more of a kind of like a witness account like here's here's what happened uh as it got further into it i could tell it to me it kind of started feeling like interrogation um but originally i wasn't thinking that it it could have i guess could have been an interrogation because i'm just thinking that it was just it was an incident that had a clear explanation as to what happened okay have you ever been in a situation like [01:09:03] Speaker 3: that before never and having gone through that situation and if you are in court is there anything you've learned from this situation that sticks in your mind uh from all this four years later four and a half years later [01:09:23] Hannah Payne: that not everybody is going to have a reaction that you think they're going to have and that clearly trying to do the right thing is not the right answer [01:09:38] Speaker 3: i think you're going to help anybody else try to help anybody ever again no [01:09:50] Speaker 1: does the state house examination okay take a minute to hear the issue [01:10:17] Speaker 7: how are we still going to need i.t right now do you plan to play anything else attorney tucker [01:10:25] Speaker 3: i think back to the floor not depending on what we're doing up there i'm not trying to understand about these vegetables but i think you can handle it and i don't anticipate [01:10:33] Speaker ?: okay if we need you we'll call thank you so much [01:10:39] Speaker 7: all right you just discussed you remember having an interview on may 7 2019 with detective morin and detective hayward correct and you recall during that interview when you were discussing the original incident that occurred on clark howell that your vehicle was almost struck by mr herring correct correct it was not struck no it was not and that you were able to stop your vehicle and that you were able to stop your vehicle before he came through the intersection correct and at that time you were able to go around and you pulled up on the sidewalk and waited to call the police correct and while you were on scene at clark howell you had no issues with mr herring correct no none you never spoke to him directly no you didn't see any weapons on him no you never got close to him to smell any odor of alcohol on him no i did not and he didn't threaten you in any way no i did not and you never told the detectives or the police that terry robinson told you you were struck i did yes [01:12:13] Hannah Payne: you told the police i told 9-1-1 dispatch [01:12:20] Speaker 7: now let's talk about 9-1-1 dispatch now you also stated that when mr herring took off from the incident location you were already at your vehicle correct and you had gotten into your vehicle correct i was sitting in my vehicle on the phone correct and terry robinson and mr kimball were still in the street correct and you stated that he waved you over yes and the only thing you heard terry robinson say was go go go correct that's your testimony today correct so he never told you to take a picture and tag not that i remember no and you also testified today that you never heard the 9-1-1 dispatch give you a warning not to chase [01:13:25] Hannah Payne: no i never said that i said that she told me that she wanted me to be safe and i said that from what i took it as was that she didn't want me to chase and when i explained to her i wasn't chasing i was just simply staying with him until a police officer could get to us [01:13:51] Speaker 7: and the 9-1-1 dispatch indicated to you approximately four times to either not chase mr herring and go [01:13:59] Hannah Payne: back to the scene correct incorrect i only heard it one time and she told me not to chase to be safe she never told me to go back to the scene until after i had told her that i was behind him and that she that she wanted me to be safe and in doing so she said that she wanted both of us to go back [01:14:37] Speaker ?: and that she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now [01:15:19] Speaker 7: she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now [01:15:23] Speaker ?: she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now [01:15:23] Speaker 7: she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now [01:15:32] Speaker ?: she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now [01:15:51] Hannah Payne: she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now [01:15:55] Speaker 7: she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now [01:15:57] Speaker ?: she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now [01:16:18] Speaker 7: she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now [01:16:20] Speaker ?: she said that she wanted me to go back to the scene right now [01:16:20] Speaker 7: yes all right you see on page one female caller dispatcher tells you okay can you get his tag number your response hold on he's driving away um it's a red red dodge dakota give me one second hold on okay so he is going west down clark howell no i'm sorry down forest parkway dispatcher okay so couldn't you couldn't get a tag number your response no but i'm catching up to him right now and the dispatcher tells you okay ma'am we actually do not want you to chase him we just want you to be safe the first time they tell you not to chase him correct [01:17:05] Hannah Payne: she didn't tell me not to she just said that they didn't want me to because of my safety at least it's the way that i [01:17:11] Speaker 7: interpreted okay i'll give you that so they told you that they do not want you to chase him correct correct and what did you say next you can read it i understand okay and the dispatcher tells you after that it's not safe to chase him [01:17:31] Hannah Payne: second time correct that's what the transcripts guys said when we're listening to it i don't remember [01:17:37] Speaker 7: hearing that but and can you read what your response was i understand 100 [01:17:42] Hannah Payne: i'm not going i'm sorry i'm just going to get the tag number um if nothing else but i am going west down forest parkway and i'm almost up to him so you told the dispatcher that you [01:17:55] Speaker 7: understood 100 correct that i needed to be safe correct and dispatcher states after that okay after you provide the tag number which you provide the tag number before you make contact with mr herring correct correct and once she gets the tag number from you she tells you okay so if you could go back to that location where the incident happened because someone is actually on the way to you guys now is that correct correct so there should be no confusion that she told both of you to go back to that location well if you if you keep it's not confusion it's just more to the conversation but you said your interpretation was that she advised you thought that she was advising you and mr herring to return to the incident location correct because that's what she says in the next line okay i'll let you read it read the entire response from dispatch [01:18:51] Hannah Payne: from what the transcript reads is you know from the beginning okay female caller dispatcher dispatcher okay so if you could go back to that location where the incident happened because someone is actually on the way to you guys now and terry robinson and mr kimball were still at that location correct that was two out of the four people terry robinson and mr [01:19:14] Speaker 7: kimball were still at that location correct and that's the third time she's telling you to not continue to follow mr herring and go back to the [01:19:28] Hannah Payne: location no that's when she told me to go back to the location the first time she didn't say anything [01:19:34] Speaker 7: about not following all right and so what is your response to the dispatch at that time [01:19:39] Hannah Payne: you can read the next paragraph that there's a police officer okay well there is a police officer there but he is drunk i'm not i'm not i'm sorry but i'm here to tell you i'm not not going to follow him because he's going to cause another accident so i will stay behind him until an officer can get to us [01:20:04] Speaker 7: but until then i'm not moving right so you are aware that dispatcher did not want you to continue to follow mr herring correct sure is that yes yes all right and the dispatcher tells you after that you know that's what i want i want you guys to go back to the location where it happened and an officer will be out there momentarily so that's a fourth time she's telling you again don't follow and head back to the incident location correct incorrect okay so what am i missing she said [01:20:38] Hannah Payne: which in the transcript it reads differently than what you can hear on the call i'm talking about the transcript that's before you miss pain i'm i'm just speaking from facts of what i i've known i'm asking [01:20:49] Speaker 3: you to agree if she could allow the witness to finish answering the question instead of interrupting her the defendant isn't giving her question answered if she allowed her to finish her [01:20:59] Speaker 7: your response the defendant is not responsive to the question i'm only asking her about the transcript [01:21:04] Speaker 1: that's in front of her so i'm going to overrule the objection and miss bianney will answer the [01:21:10] Speaker 2: question that's been posed okay you can explain after you've indicated whether she's correct or not [01:21:19] Speaker 7: so can you repeat your question the dispatcher for a fourth time indicated to you that she wanted you to return to the incident [01:21:30] Hannah Payne: location correct correct and not for a fourth time that she wanted me to not follow [01:21:49] Speaker 7: okay you testified that you didn't cut mr herring off on riverdale road you saw him stopped in the turning line [01:22:19] Hannah Payne: is that correct is that your testimony i said i saw him stopped in the turning lane and i never used the terminology cut him off because in my eyes i was still in my lane of travel [01:22:45] Speaker 7: and do you remember telling the detectives on may 7th 2019 that you got in your jeep you followed mr herring you told the dispatch that you were following him and she told you that she didn't advise it she told you to get his tag number you got the tag number by the time you got to the end right when i [01:23:10] Speaker 3: got to riverdale road correct your honor this is a very long question she can break it up maybe the witness could understand and answer a little bit clearer your response and i'm asking her if [01:23:23] Speaker 7: that's what she said that's the statement that she would have made to the detectives i'm asking her was [01:23:29] Speaker 2: that a statement that she made to detectives okay so i i don't know the objection it's not a compound question she's just asking if that's actually what she said so i know it so if you're asking me [01:23:43] Hannah Payne: if i remember word for word what i said four and a half years ago i can not say that i do remember [01:23:48] Speaker 7: exactly what i said and do you recall that you told them that you came around that curve and you had an [01:23:54] Hannah Payne: opportunity to get in front of him if that's what i said then i don't remember like i said exactly it was four and a half years ago there was hours worth of interview so and do you recall telling the [01:24:08] Speaker 7: detectives that you got in front of him and i stopped in front of him and i got out okay you recall that [01:24:17] Hannah Payne: again i don't remember word for word what i said i would have assumed that i would have explained what happened which you were able to see in the pictures so it's your testimony today that you [01:24:30] Speaker 7: did not cause him to stop his vehicle correct [01:24:53] Speaker ?: i'm showing you what has been at the end of the thing that's identified so i'm showing you what has been at the end of the thing that's identified [01:25:10] Speaker 7: so i'm showing you what has been at the end of the thing that's identified is that your g it was and do you see how your vehicle is angled towards the red dodge decoding [01:25:35] Hannah Payne: no i see his vehicle is angled towards mine okay i can give you a better view [01:25:49] Speaker ?: i'm showing you what has been previously admitted so i'm showing you what has been previously admitted so i'm showing you what has been previously admitted [01:26:11] Speaker 7: now is your vehicle slightly ahead of mr harris vehicle slightly ahead yes and is your right passenger tire turned towards the right toward his vehicle the tires turn but the vehicle is not and so in order for you to get in that position you had to turn your steering wheel to the right towards mr harris vehicle correct towards the lane and his vehicle is in that lane correct at the time it was further back so no so if it was further back you had to turn your vehicle in front of his vehicle correct no so how did you end up in that position [01:27:09] Hannah Payne: and this meaning like with the cars connected or with me with you partially in his lane with my front tire partially in his lane my wheel was turned [01:27:23] Speaker 7: no now you testified that you walked up to him and you were and it sounds like you described it calmly telling him to that the 911 dispatch wanted him to go back to the scene correct and telling him calmly that you were on the phone with 911 [01:27:56] Hannah Payne: what come i mean when you say calmly do you mean like was i irate or was i was i louder [01:28:05] Speaker 7: that is your testimony today that you did not get out of your vehicle and run up to mr herring's vehicle telling him to get out of the car correct and you never once got out of your vehicle and go up to him and tell him to get out of the car well everyone heard i did and so at no point on the 911 tape did you ever tell him to stop go back to the scene i did and did you hear that on a 911 conveniently no and so i believe you testified that as you were at mr herring's window [01:28:47] Hannah Payne: his vehicle moved forward towards your jeep correct um i was in the vehicle but yes correct [01:28:56] Speaker 7: while that vehicle was moving forward correct so do you remember speaking with the detectives [01:29:21] Speaker ?: uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh [01:30:42] Speaker 7: May I approach your honor? Yes, you may. I'm handing you what it's been created to our mistakes in exhibit 41, which is a copy of the transcript of your interview with Detective Moore and Detective Hayward. Can you turn to page 11? The page number will be at the top of the page. It's at the bottom of the page where it says your name, and it starts with "And?" [01:31:47] Hannah Payne: Yes. [01:31:49] Speaker 7: And can you read that paragraph? [01:31:53] Hannah Payne: And he's just like, "Who are you? Who are you?" I said, "I'm no one, but I'm on the phone with dispatch. I'm on the phone with the police. You need to stop. You just caused that accident." He's like, "Yeah, okay. I got something for you." And that's when he pulled forward. [01:32:08] Speaker 7: And Detective Moore asked you, "So at this time, it was just words being exchanged. There was no." He stopped. And then what did you respond? She stopped. And I responded saying, "No contact." And she responded, "No contact at all yet." And what was your response? [01:32:30] Hannah Payne: Right. [01:32:31] Speaker 7: So at the time his car pulled forward, there was no contact between you and Mr. Herring, correct? There was between the vehicles. So when Detective Moore said there were just words being exchanged, there was no contact. Is your position that she was just talking about the vehicles? [01:32:52] Hannah Payne: That's what I would assume, yes. [01:32:55] Speaker 7: So words and vehicle? Yes. [01:33:00] Speaker 3: Where's the question tonight, Your Honor? [01:33:03] Speaker 2: Your response is the intent? [01:33:08] Speaker 7: I'll move on, Your Honor. [01:33:10] Speaker 2: Okay. I will sustain the objection. You can move on with your next question. [01:33:30] Speaker 7: Now, is your testimony today that you've never had your finger on the trigger? It is. Can you turn to page 49? Page 49? Page 49. [01:34:24] Speaker ?: Thank you. [01:34:54] Speaker 7: Okay. All right. Down at the bottom of the page where you see your name and it starts off, I mean, can you read that paragraph? [01:35:18] Hannah Payne: I mean, he's almost fully turned by pulling and I think that was more so just a matter of us kind of going back and forth with him like this. Hannah is showing the position he is in. And he's pulling and after he tried to pull the trigger when he came back around is when I had my hand on the trigger and he was, he still was squeezing, reaching, pulling, turning. But I'm pretty sure that in prior testimony, we were speaking of the trigger guard. [01:35:57] Speaker 7: And can you turn to page 41? [01:36:10] Hannah Payne: Okay. Okay. [01:36:11] Speaker 7: Can you start down where it says your name? I pulled it out. [01:36:45] Hannah Payne: I pulled it out and I had it up here. [01:36:48] Speaker 7: And Detective Hayward asked you where the muzzle was pointed. What was your response? [01:36:53] Hannah Payne: It's more so pointing sideways. [01:36:58] Speaker 7: And he also asked you that he stated so the, it was not pointed at Mr. Herring, just raised. Correct. And he stated ready if you had to pull it. [01:37:14] Hannah Payne: That's what he states. Yes. [01:37:18] Speaker 7: And on page 42. And on page 42. And Detective Hayward states and he reaches out with his right hand so you know there is nothing, no weapon or nothing in his right hand. Correct? And what is your response? [01:37:41] Hannah Payne: He correct. Well, yes. Yes. [01:37:44] Speaker 7: And Detective Hayward asked you because you didn't see no weapons or nothing in his right. And what is your response? [01:37:50] Hannah Payne: I didn't see anything in his, but he didn't have anything in his hands. [01:38:08] Speaker 7: And on page 40, turn to page 40. And at the top, I believe that's your response. And I had it, my gun in my hand. And Detective Hayward asked you, are you pointing it at him at this time? What was your response? [01:38:45] Hannah Payne: No, I am not pointing it at him, but I'm pointing it away. [01:38:52] Speaker 7: No, reread that. I don't believe that's what that says. [01:38:58] Hannah Payne: I'm not pointing it at him, but I'm not pointing it away. Where it goes on to show that I was resting it on the window of the car. As I explained, I was pushing away. [01:39:14] Speaker 7: And so your testimony today was all of this could have been avoided, correct? Correct. And you also stated that you had no intention, or you wasn't trying to interject yourself in a situation that you just got away from, correct? [01:39:32] Hannah Payne: Correct. [01:39:34] Speaker 7: But that's, in fact, what happened on May 7, 2019. [01:39:38] Hannah Payne: Interjecting myself twice or initially. [01:39:42] Speaker 7: So in the initial incident, your vehicle was not struck, correct? Correct. And so there was no reason for you to interject yourself in the final conclusion of what happened with Mr. Herring as far as that incident was concerned. [01:40:01] Hannah Payne: Well, there was a lot that led up to that. So for me to have interjected myself to begin with was me doing something that I would have wanted someone else to do for me, which was to be a witness for what I thought was an accident. [01:40:16] Speaker 7: And you're not post-certified? No, I'm not. You're not a police officer? [01:40:21] Hannah Payne: I'm not. [01:40:21] Speaker 7: Nobody deputized you on that day to apprehend anyone? [01:40:25] Hannah Payne: No, they did not. [01:40:35] Speaker 7: And you also stated that you never had any intention of pulling the trigger? Correct. So when you told Mr. Herring that you would shoot him, you were just bluffing? [01:40:49] Hannah Payne: It's not a, I wasn't bluffing. I was, as I explained, thinking it was a deterrent, like I wouldn't be able to get away. [01:41:00] Speaker 7: And you said you had training with this firearm? Yes. And in that training, you didn't learn that you don't pull a gun unless you're going to use it? [01:41:12] Hannah Payne: I learned that you don't put your finger on the trigger unless you're going to use it. [01:41:16] Speaker 7: And it was your testimony today, in that interview, that your finger was on the trigger, correct? [01:41:22] Hannah Payne: My finger was on the trigger guard, not in the trigger. [01:41:25] Speaker 2: Thank you. [01:41:55] Speaker 3: Okay, now, they talked about this 911 tape with you. During this 911 tape, as you heard it while you were sitting at the table, did it appear sometimes you were talking over the 911 operator and they were talking over you? [01:42:12] Hannah Payne: It appeared that way, yes. [01:42:14] Speaker 3: Did it appear that when they were saying one time, we don't want you to chase, we want you to be safe, that you were given directions at that time? Correct. Could that be the reason you did not hear the first or the second time? [01:42:28] Speaker 7: Correct. [01:42:29] Speaker 3: Now, the state kept saying that, they said, don't chase, don't chase. But you recall them saying, be safe and come back to a location, correct? [01:42:41] Hannah Payne: From my recollection, I remember them telling me not to chase. I told them I wasn't chasing. I was just following behind. She wanted me to be safe and I told her that I understood that. I had no reason to think that I wouldn't be safe. [01:42:59] Speaker 3: Okay. And the last time from you saying, I'm just trying to get his tag, how many seconds went by before 911 came even back on the line to talk to you? [01:43:15] Hannah Payne: There was a large gap between both times of her originally asking me, can I get the tag? And I said, no, hold on. There was a large gap. And then she asked me again if I was able to get the tag. And there was another large gap. [01:43:32] Speaker 3: And I recall hearing you walking at a fast pace to your car, to your Jeep, while they were asking about the tag. So did you get into your Jeep at that time? [01:43:44] Hannah Payne: Yes, because I was sitting on my passenger side, or standing at my passenger side. [01:43:50] Speaker 3: And you were on the phone concentrating to what 911 was saying, correct? [01:43:55] Hannah Payne: Correct, yes. [01:43:55] Speaker 3: Did you hear any outside noise of the state officer telling somebody to take a picture of the tag or to get the tag number? [01:44:03] Hannah Payne: No. [01:44:05] Speaker 3: So you were doing what you were told to or requested to by 911? [01:44:09] Hannah Payne: Yes. [01:44:10] Speaker 3: Okay. Now, State asked you a specific question, and I think you read the transcripts of you never had your finger on the trigger. But isn't it true that the portion you read said your hand was on the trigger? [01:44:29] Hannah Payne: That's the way that I interpreted it, which is why I tried to explain about the previous statements. [01:44:34] Speaker 3: Is your hand different than your finger? [01:44:37] Hannah Payne: It's a part of. [01:44:38] Speaker 3: Okay. But it's different when you're holding a gun to have a hand versus a finger on a trigger, correct? [01:44:44] Hannah Payne: Correct. [01:44:46] Speaker 3: And do you recall anybody ever coming in there to get fingerprints to check the trigger to see if there were any fingerprints on the trigger? [01:44:54] Hannah Payne: No. They never checked for fingerprints. They never checked my fingerprints. They never even checked the fact that I had the marks or the ripped shirt or anything like that until way after. [01:45:08] Speaker 3: And did you request them to take pictures or to check that or did someone else? [01:45:13] Hannah Payne: Well, Detective Moore is who actually asked the photographer to come in after it was brought to her attention. [01:45:20] Speaker 3: And you mentioned that they were going back and forth, Detective Moore and Detective Haywood, correct? [01:45:27] Hannah Payne: Correct. [01:45:27] Speaker 3: And was it kind of a good cop, bad cop situation? [01:45:32] Hannah Payne: In hindsight, yes. [01:45:33] Speaker 3: Okay. And did it appear they were looking for a certain answer or they were changing the words to get that answer? [01:45:40] Hannah Payne: That's how I explained it. That's how I felt. [01:45:43] Speaker 3: Okay. And now you stated that, you know, there was no contact and you stated you thought it was the vehicle, correct? [01:46:00] Hannah Payne: Correct. [01:46:01] Speaker 3: Was there any contact with the vehicle prior to the question they asked? [01:46:08] Hannah Payne: At that point, there was not. [01:46:11] Speaker 3: But was there kind of, had he grabbed you or done anything to you prior to that? [01:46:18] Hannah Payne: Prior, I'm sorry, prior to, what are you referencing? [01:46:20] Speaker 3: To the vehicle moving forward and hitting your vehicle. And that's the contact you thought they were talking about, correct? [01:46:27] Hannah Payne: Correct. Correct, yes. So when he had a hold, and then once he grabbed a hold of me, after that is when the vehicles hit, which I didn't figure out until after the fact, of course. [01:46:43] Speaker 3: Now, they said you pulled it out and possibly had pointed it sideways, but the gun would have been sideways and you stated pushing off of the car, correct? [01:46:58] Hannah Payne: Correct. [01:46:58] Speaker 3: So is that when he grabbed your wrist? [01:47:01] Hannah Payne: Yes. [01:47:01] Speaker 3: So the gun would have been pointing kind of upward or downward, not at him when he grabbed your wrist, correct? [01:47:08] Hannah Payne: Correct. [01:47:09] Speaker 3: Okay. And when he grabbed your wrist, he tried to pull the gun into it. [01:47:12] Hannah Payne: I'm checking it out, I'm leading. [01:47:14] Speaker 8: It's crossed, Your Honor. I'm sorry, I thought in cross you can ask leading questions or ask questions about what they had. [01:47:21] Speaker 2: Your redirect, at this point, you're not cross-examining, you're redirecting. So I will sustain the objection as to leading western. [01:47:31] Speaker 3: So what was the position of the gun as was asked by the state when it was resting on the blue? [01:47:40] Hannah Payne: It was in my hand and I was like this. So it was like towards the steering wheel, I guess, is where it would, the natural position would be until it was grabbed. And then once it was grabbed, it was back and forth, but inevitably in the end it ended up to where it was being pulled that way, like away. [01:48:03] Speaker 3: And you were asked about hearing your voice on the 911 tape, did you hear your voice saying stop on the 911 tape? [01:48:16] Hannah Payne: I couldn't hear any of my, what I consider cries for help on the 911 tape. [01:48:23] Speaker 3: Do you recall a Cameron Williams that came and testified that had a video? Yes. Okay. Do you recall after the state had taken him back to refresh his memory and then he came back to finish his testimony, do you recall hearing the video? I do. What did they say in the video? [01:48:43] Hannah Payne: You can hear me saying stop, stop over and over again. [01:48:49] Speaker 3: And the phone was right there close to you? [01:48:52] Hannah Payne: It was. [01:48:53] Speaker 3: So obviously it just wasn't loud enough to be on the 911 tape? [01:48:59] Hannah Payne: I mean, my voice projection didn't change for me yelling from get out of the car to stop. So I don't know how it picked up one and not the other. [01:49:12] Speaker 3: And it stated, the state requested that this could have been avoided and asked you that question. Do you recall that? I do. How could it have been avoided? [01:49:23] Hannah Payne: Initially, me not trying to do the right thing. And in the end, I don't know. I don't know. Just trying to stay away from the original scene. Put it that way. [01:49:44] Speaker 3: Okay. So you said at the beginning that at the end, it could have been avoided in a different way? [01:49:53] Hannah Payne: I believe if there wasn't, if he wasn't trying to take it from me, it would have never went off. [01:50:00] Speaker ?: Okay. Okay. [01:50:00] Speaker 3: And you would have never pulled it hat in a situation at this level? Correct. [01:50:05] Speaker ?: Correct. [01:50:05] Speaker 3: And you told the detectives, as well as the 911, as well as the people around there, you never had your finger on the trigger? [01:50:23] Hannah Payne: Correct. Correct. [01:50:24] Speaker 3: And if anything, your hand was on the trigger guard? [01:50:33] Hannah Payne: No. Well, that's where your hand's rest is alongside. [01:50:37] Speaker 2: You talked about the fact that it could have been avoided had you not attempted to, I guess, assist or help. [01:50:57] Speaker 7: But this actually could have been avoided if you not had introduced a gun into this incident. Correct? [01:51:06] Hannah Payne: I introduced the gun to try and save my life. Nothing further on. [01:51:18] Speaker 3: She asked the question to interject herself. And you're saying, I think if I could redirect again once you've done another question, ran a question? Okay. [01:51:35] Speaker 2: I'm going to sustain the objection, Attorney Tucker. Have you concluded with this witness, Attorney Tucker? [01:51:51] Speaker ?: I'll stay on the plate up. Yes, I am. I'm getting to the witness. Okay. You may step down.