Full interview: GOP Rep. Thomas Massie on Israel, Trump and more ahead of Kentucky primary

[0:00] Congressman, thank you for taking a few minutes. [0:02] With precious hours to go, what is your sense of the state of the race? [0:07] Well, we've got the momentum on the ground. [0:09] If the ground game is worth anything, it's ours. [0:13] Our opponent canceled events on Saturday because he didn't have enough people to show up. [0:18] And we've had dozens of people at every stop, even in small towns like this, [0:23] that have only 1,000 people in them. [0:26] There have been more than $32 million spent on a primary in this congressional district, [0:34] which is now the most expensive house primary ever in the United States. [0:39] Is it worth it? [0:41] You'd have to ask Miriam Adelson on May 20th if it was worth it. [0:46] Because, you know, they tried to buy my vote for 14 years and it was never for sale. [0:51] Now they're trying to buy a seat here in Kentucky. [0:53] I think they underestimated the reserve price of my constituents. [0:58] They waded into this. [0:59] They thought they could buy this seat with a couple million. [1:02] That didn't work. [1:03] And now they're throwing good money after bad. [1:05] The thing that surprised me is how much money we've been able to raise. [1:09] I don't have three billionaires who want to just throw their money away. [1:14] I've got the grassroots, tens of thousands of donations. [1:17] Average donation for me is about $80. [1:20] And we've been able to go toe-to-toe. [1:22] A lot of that $32 million is coming from our side, but it's coming from regular working Americans. [1:27] When you say they, that they spent money to try to buy the seat, who are you talking about specifically? [1:31] I'm talking about the Israeli lobby, AIPAC, Republican Jewish Coalition, Miriam Adelson, Paul Singer, and John Paulson. [1:38] These are the groups that have given 95% of the money to my opponent because they're mad at me over foreign policy. [1:44] Now, what's interesting is my policy has always been no country is special and no country deserves my constituents' taxpayer dollars. [1:53] So I have never voted for foreign aid to Egypt, to Syria, to Israel, or to Ukraine. [1:58] But the ones in Israel, since they're the biggest recipients of it, that makes them a little bit mad. [2:03] What's so wrong about helping defend Israel from Iranian threats? [2:08] We've got debt. [2:10] I mean, at least with NATO, there's the promise of a reciprocal arrangement. [2:14] With Israel, it's completely one way. [2:16] And they've drug us into wars. [2:19] They've convinced us that Iran is just days away from a nuclear weapon, and they're perpetually that way. [2:26] This is not our war. [2:27] Israel, for instance, funds abortions publicly. [2:30] I think a lot of Republicans would be aghast to know that we're giving $3.8 billion a year every year to a country that funds public abortions. [2:39] The president earlier today called you an obstructionist and a fool. [2:45] What's your response? [2:46] Well, he knows I'm not a fool. [2:47] He calls me a sharp cookie when we talk privately. [2:49] He brags on his uncle, who taught at MIT 41 years, because he knows I went to MIT and got two degrees. [2:56] So he knows I'm not a fool. [2:57] He knows I'm tough, too. [2:59] He calls me a tough cookie when we talk on the phone, because he knows I don't crumble. [3:03] He knows when I take a position, I stand on that position. [3:06] And he knows I'm tough to beat. [3:08] He's tweeted probably, what, eight or ten times in the last 72 hours. [3:13] He's literally losing sleep over this race, because he's in with both feet. [3:17] And I think their polling shows what our polling shows, which is there's a better than half chance that we're going to win this race. [3:24] When was the last time you spoke with him by phone? [3:26] I talked to him last summer. [3:28] So it's been a while. [3:30] It's been a while. [3:30] Okay. [3:31] And since then, you've been a leading proponent of changes in how the Justice Department handles the Epstein files. [3:38] And then, of course, has become a pretty vocal critic of the war with Iran. [3:42] So the two things that really set him off or that he's most sensitive to, you've been one of his lead critics. [3:48] Well, you know, that's how you drain the swamp. [3:50] You bring transparency. [3:51] And I did lead the fight to get the Epstein Files Transparency Act passed. [3:55] It eventually passed 427 to 1 in the House and 100 to nothing in the Senate. [4:00] And then the president signed it. [4:02] He could have vetoed it. [4:03] But he decided to sign my signature legislation. [4:07] And it's since resulted in the prince losing his title, the British ambassador to the United States that's been arrested, former prime ministers, and the CEO of the World Economic Forum have all been taken out by the Epstein files. [4:18] They're trying to avoid any kind of accountability in the United States. [4:22] They know if I stick with this, eventually some of our miscreants, perverts, and co-conspirators are going to go to jail. [4:29] In 2026, given that this is a GOP primary, in 2026, what does it mean to be a Republican? [4:35] You know, that's what this race is about. [4:37] What does it mean to be a Republican? [4:39] I vote with the Republican 90% of the time with the Republican Party in D.C. [4:43] In the other 10% of the cases, I'm upholding the principles, whether it's Doge, whether it's Maha, whether it's transparency, whether it's warrants for spying on Americans. [4:53] That's the 10% where I disagree with our party. [4:56] And the problem there is the Republican Party in Washington, D.C. is voting against Republicans back here in Kentucky in that 10% of the cases. [5:03] Well, that's what I was going to ask you is, you know, a Republican in Washington or the national Republican reputation, does it align with the reputation of a Republican from the 4th Congress? [5:14] 90% of the time it does, and that's why I vote with the party 90% of the time. [5:20] But look, I've got to give Trump credit for forming a coalition that expanded the Republican tent. [5:26] It got moms who care about what their kids eat to vote Republican. [5:30] It got, you know, independents who don't want to be spied on by the government to vote Republican. [5:36] It got people who wanted to cut the budget, you know, the Doge contingency. [5:41] He built this tent. [5:42] He grew this tent, and now he's trying to shrink it constituency by constituency, and that could be expensive this November if we lose the majorities. [5:51] What's the debt up to here right now? [5:53] The debt is roughly $39 trillion. [5:57] And I'm glad you asked because we've added, when I say we, I mean Republicans in the House, the Senate, and the White House, [6:04] $2.7 trillion to this debt in the 16 months that we've been in control. [6:10] I said this would happen with the big, beautiful bill. [6:14] If you're going to increase the debt, there's no free ride. [6:17] And what I see here in Kentucky is retirees who are on a fixed income, not just a fixed income, but fixed savings. [6:23] They're watching their savings dwindle because the price of everything is getting so high, and they're losing to inflation. [6:29] I said this would happen, and that's why I don't take these votes that are going to cause more inflation and pain on our seniors and young families who are just trying to buy a house. [6:37] Based on results we've seen recently in Indiana with state senators, in Louisiana with Senator Cassidy, other races in the past, [6:43] it seems that being a Republican in this day and age requires loyalty to President Trump. [6:50] Well, I don't draw too much from those races. [6:52] First of all, Senator Cassidy also alienated some of the constituencies, whether it was for cutting spending or whether it was for Maha, but he voted to impeach Trump. [7:02] I have never done that. [7:03] I've never even said an unkind word about President Trump. [7:06] And then you have the state senators in Indiana. [7:09] They sure enough crossed Trump, but they made the mistake of crossing their constituents. [7:13] Their voters wanted them to redraw those lines, so they went against their voters. [7:17] The difference here is I'm going for my voters in the minor instances where it conflicts with Trump, and that's what's got Washington, D.C. mad. [7:26] But I'm going to win. [7:27] Look, I had three congressmen campaign with me on Saturday, and that's what you see in this race that you didn't see in Bob Good's race in Virginia. [7:37] You had members of Congress go to Virginia and campaign against him. [7:41] You can't find any members of Congress willing to do that in Kentucky. [7:44] What do you make of the defense secretary, a cabinet secretary that doesn't normally campaign for any member of either party, showing up today? [7:51] He says on his personal time to campaign against a sitting congressman. [7:55] How much personal time do you have when you're supposed to be monitoring a war in Iran? [7:59] I think it shows how serious this race is, but it also shows how in trouble the other side is. [8:07] You don't send the secretary of war to Kentucky during a war if you think your candidate is up 10 points. [8:14] That's what you do when you realize your whole campaign is imploding. [8:18] If you lose, is it because of the pressure from the president? [8:22] I normally win 80 to 20. [8:25] If the president had merely endorsed a warm body, that's his affectionate term for my opponent, is a warm body from central casting, I would have won 60-40. [8:35] The difference in this race, what people need to watch, is it's a referendum on whether the Israeli lobby can buy a seat in Congress [8:44] and how much they're willing to spend to try in order to intimidate the entire Republican Party into having zero dissension on foreign policy toward Israel. [8:53] You know that kind of criticism doesn't sit well with fellow Republicans, at least in the House Republican Conference, [9:00] that there are others who have accused you of all sorts of things regarding Israel, regarding the state of Israel, regarding the Israeli government, regarding Jewish Americans. [9:10] Are you anti-Semitic? [9:13] They're trying to tell you that it's anti-Semitic for me to expose the fact that the Republican-Jewish coalition has spent millions of dollars in this race, [9:23] that a dual citizen, Miriam Adelson, who even Trump says is more loyal to Israel than the United States, has spent millions of dollars in this race. [9:32] Those are mere facts. [9:34] And it's really... [9:35] Okay, but it's a yes or no. Are you anti-Semitic or not? [9:37] Oh, hell no. I'm a hell no anti-Semitic. [9:39] But here's the danger that AIPAC runs. [9:42] They've been too cute by a half. [9:43] They've tried to get Mike Johnson, and he's willingly done this, conflate in resolutions on the House floor [9:49] that anti-Zionism equals anti-Semitism, or even worse yet, that if you don't support Benjamin Netanyahu's war in Gaza, then you're anti-Semitic. [9:58] That's absolutely false, and it does Jewish Americans a big disfavor to equate the two. [10:03] So ultimately, you think it's money from pro-Israel or Israel-line groups or powerful, influential Israeli Americans [10:13] that's causing more disruption in terms of the spending and the messaging in this race than the president? [10:19] Yeah, I think what would have been a 60-40 race is now a 50-50 race because of the spending from AIPAC, RJC, and Miriam Adelson. [10:30] You can look at it. This part of it's not an opinion. [10:33] Ninety-five percent of my opponent's money comes from the Israeli lobby. [10:37] Congressman, thank you. [10:38] If you prevail, we'll talk again at some point, either out here or back in Washington. [10:43] Okay, sounds good. [10:44] Thanks again. [10:45] And if I don't, you don't need to talk to me ever again.