Face the Nation: Scalise, King, Hillman

[0:00] And we turn now to House Majority Leader Steve Scalise, who joins us from New Orleans. [0:04] Good morning to you. Good morning, Margaret. [0:09] I know in addition to being a leader in Congress, you have this unique experience of having been [0:14] the victim of political violence yourself. You know how dangerous rhetoric can be. [0:20] We've heard a lot of anger in the past 24 hours, and your fellow Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy [0:26] said the events in Minneapolis are not only incredibly disturbing, but the credibility of ICE and DHS [0:33] are at stake. He called for a joint federal and state investigation. Would you join his call? [0:40] Well, I don't question the credibility of ICE. They're doing an incredibly hard job. [0:46] They're, look, we are all just feel sorry about what happened in Minneapolis. And this has happened [0:53] over and over again. I mean, I'm not just talking about regarding ICE. I mean, they've got some [0:59] failed local leadership. They let their city burn down years ago. They have chaos, it seems like, [1:04] all the time in places where other cities don't. ICE is operating in a lot of cities, Margaret, [1:09] and you don't have these kinds of incidents in any other city but Minneapolis. And so... [1:12] You don't see these numbers either, though. [1:14] Yesterday didn't happen. What's that? [1:16] You don't see these numbers either, though. When we looked at, for example, [1:19] the federal response in New Orleans, I mean, it's just a fraction of the number of federal agents. [1:23] Nearly 3,000 is quite a lot for a city the size of Minneapolis. [1:28] Well, that's because they didn't get resistance in cities like New Orleans, where, [1:32] you know, when you look in Minneapolis and I just listened to the chief and you could hear him [1:37] lamenting four times, I think he said, that they're strapped so thin. And let's keep in mind, [1:44] Minneapolis is a city that defunded their police. That's not the chief's fault. That's the [1:49] failed Democrat leader's fault. But at the same time, when they defund the police, that leaves [1:53] the chief stretched thin. And so they've made a decision not to assist ICE. [1:58] He was talking about dealing with the federal issues, because when you look at the [2:02] Minnesota database, shooting victims down 76 percent, homicides down 67 percent, [2:08] burglary down 39 percent year to date, sex offenses down, robberies down, motor vehicle theft is up. [2:14] So he was talking about the response, the deal that they have now, that the stretch they have [2:20] now dealing with the federal agents who are there. Well, but remember, these agents have also arrested [2:27] thousands of violent criminals in Minneapolis. That's one of the reasons that crime is down. [2:32] And we're seeing that across the country. I look again, anytime something bad happens, [2:39] we all lament that. I wish it didn't happen. But the rhetoric does need to be toned down. But we also [2:44] need to remember, why is ICE doing this in cities? They're enforcing federal law, Margaret. The law [2:49] says you can't be here illegally. And if you're committing violent crimes, the president made it [2:53] clear. In fact, he was elected, President Trump was elected to get rid of criminals in our communities. [2:59] 416,000 criminals have been arrested by ICE just in the last year. That has helped make our communities safer. [3:07] Well, it's interesting you bring up the politics of this, because undoubtedly, the president was elected [3:11] on a platform of immigration enforcement. There was a lot of support for it. But our latest poll shows [3:16] more than half of Americans say ICE is making communities less safe. Almost two-thirds of [3:21] Americans say they dislike the president's approach to his deportation program. There is not public [3:27] support for the way this policy is being implemented. Do you think there needs to be a reassessment? [3:34] Well, if you asked people in a poll, do you want violent criminals that are here illegally in your [3:40] community, yes or no? What do you think the answer is going to be? I will tell you overwhelmingly, [3:44] they will say, please get the violent criminals out. In fact, you're seeing that on the ground in many, [3:49] many cities where they are cooperating with ICE, where they don't have sanctuary city policies [3:55] and where you don't see, by the way, people going in the streets, breaking the law to interfere with law [4:01] enforcement, which is a felony. You have been a supporter of the Second Amendment. When Secretary [4:08] Noem says, I don't know of any peaceful protester that shows up with a gun and ammo rather than a [4:13] sign. Do you believe Americans have the right to bear arms while they're protesting? [4:18] Well, first of all, I'm a co-sponsor of Louisiana's law that allows you to have a concealed carry permit. [4:24] It's worked very well there. I don't know the state law in Minnesota. I know in a state like Louisiana, [4:29] and frankly, most states, you are not allowed to carry a gun while you're committing another crime. [4:35] And interfering with law enforcement is a felony. It's something that, unfortunately, [4:41] we're seeing in a lot of cities. You even had the police chief yesterday, Chief O'Hara, [4:45] that you just had on yesterday said, of the protests going on after the shooting, [4:50] that they were unlawful. He actually said it was an unlawful assembly, what a lot of people are doing. [4:56] And they were throwing things at ICE agents, throwing projectiles that could harm ICE agents. [5:00] So let's tone this down. And leaders in Minnesota, by the way, have been ratcheting up the rhetoric. [5:07] I mean, you saw the governor. Governor Walz said they're Gestapo. He said they're violently hurting [5:13] people. I'm going to have to take this commercial break and let you finish the thought on the other [5:17] side of it. If you could stay with us later, we have more questions. We'll be right back. [5:21] Welcome back to Base the Nation and House Majority Leader Steve Scalise. [5:32] Leader, we have seen a letter that Attorney General Pam Bondi sent to Governor Walz out in Minnesota [5:39] offering to end the federal surge if the state does a number of things, among them giving access to the [5:46] food assistance programs and voter registration logs. What's the purpose of that? What's the intent? [5:53] Well, I haven't read that letter between Pam Bondi and the governor, but I know that we are investigating [6:01] tens of billions of dollars of potential fraud coming out of Minnesota. There have been hearings [6:06] that have already been held. We have a lot of whistleblowers talking to us about major theft of [6:12] taxpayer money coming out of Minnesota. And these are stealing programs from learning centers, from [6:18] disabled students programs that are being stolen. And the governor did nothing about it. [6:22] But voter registration logs, as a conservative, doesn't that make you a little uncomfortable that [6:28] they're demanding the state hand over voter registration logs? What's the purpose of that? [6:33] To end ICE enforcement? Well, I haven't seen the letter. I know we're trying in Congress to deal with [6:39] putting laws on the books that will make sure that we protect the integrity of the vote nationwide. [6:44] States like Minnesota have had problems with voter integrity. We want a national standard, [6:50] the SAVE Act, which makes sure illegals can't vote, but also making sure you show picture ID. [6:54] Those are things we're pushing for. That's across the board federally. [6:58] But non-citizens cannot vote. But I want to ask you, ICE, about all the things that have happened [7:06] this week, even before that shooting in Minnesota. ICE has said his officers can go into homes without [7:12] judicial warrants. ICE shot unarmed Renee Goode, as you know, claimed that she was a domestic terrorist. [7:20] An FBI agent resigned after she was ordered not to investigate the officer who shot her. ICE detained [7:28] at least five kids, including five-year-old Liam Ramos, who was taken into custody by men in masks. Does [7:39] this picture sound right to you? Are you comfortable with how this is being implemented? [7:47] Yeah. Let's keep in mind that the five-year-old's father was here illegally and was evading law [7:53] enforcement and abandoned his child. ICE actually protected the child. [7:57] The family disputes that the administration has a problem with the previous administration's [8:03] legal system for asylum. They don't like the app he used to file for asylum. [8:09] Well, Joe Biden allowed millions of people to come into our country illegal, including very violent [8:15] people. But they're retroactively trying to change the legality of his status. [8:18] President Trump was elected. The number one issue last year was President Trump saying, [8:23] I'm going to secure the border, and he's doing it, but also he's removing violent people. [8:27] 416,000 criminals have been arrested by ICE. 416,000 have been arrested by ICE. [8:38] These are very bad people. By the way, ICE just put up a website. [8:41] 47% of ICE detainees have criminal charges or convictions. [8:43] 47% of ICE detainees have criminal charges or convictions. [8:43] 47%. [8:44] Go Google worst of the worst DHS. State by state, [8:48] they show you all the people that have been picked up in each state, your state, [8:52] you can find out horrible people, murderers, rapists that they picked up that would be on [8:56] the streets today if President Trump wasn't securing this country. [8:57] That doesn't apply to the father or five-year-old Liam or the two-year-old who was [9:01] separated from her mother. That father was illegally and abandoned his child. [9:06] Go look at the website. It shows you who they picked up. [9:09] Are they the worst of the worst, sir? [9:10] 416,000 people with violent criminal records. These are people. And by the way, [9:15] America today has the lowest murder rate that we've had since 1900, [9:21] in part because of President Trump's actions to get these violent people off our streets. [9:26] 416,000 have been removed. Do you want them still out on our streets? [9:30] No. [9:31] I don't think most people do. [9:32] No. This is a hard job ICE has. [9:34] They do, indeed. [9:35] In local law enforcement, local officials, the mayor, the governor, should not be encouraging people [9:40] to go out on the streets and break the law by interfering with law enforcement. [9:45] And American citizens are concerned about American citizens being shot, [9:49] and that's why we are asking the questions about the taxpayer-funded federal... [9:52] And we don't have that chaos in other cities. Minneapolis has its own problems, [9:57] failed leadership that has led to a lot of this, and it's unfortunate it happened. [10:01] I wish it didn't happen. [10:02] They're failed leaders need to look in the mirror and tone it down. [10:05] I have to go to our next guest, Leader Scalise. Thank you for your time today. [10:10] We go to Independent Senator Angus King, who joins us from Maine. Good morning to you, Senator. [10:15] And good morning, Margaret. Good to be with you. [10:19] Good to have you here. And I understand that. In your state, ICE just launched this operation, [10:25] Catch of the Day, which an official told CBS would target Somali immigrants, among others, [10:32] targeting 1,400 criminal aliens who have, quote-unquote, terrorized communities in Maine. [10:38] What's been the impact? Do you know how many arrests there have been? [10:40] There have been something like 100 that DHS has told us. And by the way, [10:47] to follow up on Leader Scalise's previous comment, that worst of the worst website that DHS has [10:53] established, they list 13 people in Maine. They concede that, or they state that they've arrested [10:59] 100. I want to know who the other 83 are. I'm sorry, 87. My math is off. But the point is, [11:08] this worst of the worst thing is a pretext. What they're really doing is going after people who [11:14] are here. They're asylum seekers. They're in the process. They have green cards. We've had numerous [11:21] cases in Maine of people being stopped and detained with zero criminal record, including a recruit for [11:28] the sheriff's office to be a guard at the county jail. So this idea that it's the worst of the worst is [11:35] just nonsense. Well, yesterday, your governor released a statement saying she's requested [11:40] a meeting with President Trump to withdraw agents from Maine. Powers of the state government seem [11:46] extremely limited here when you look at Minnesota. Does Maine have any ability to stop this? [11:53] Well, I think we can be talking with DHS and talking with the president. I'm trying to interact [11:58] with DHS just to get some questions answered. They tell me I have to submit my questions in writing, [12:03] and then they'll get back to me in writing maybe in a week or two. I mean, I represent the people of my [12:09] state. I shouldn't have to go through a lot of bureaucratic red tape to get some answers. But [12:16] here's the real problem, Margaret. The people that are being terrorized in Maine are being terrorized by [12:23] ICE. They're not being terrorized by criminals. And ICE says, we're not going to be terrorizing people [12:29] with criminals on our streets. Here's what's happening in Portland. People are afraid to [12:35] send their kids to school. People are afraid to go to work. Businesses are suffering because their [12:40] workers can't come in. Families are sending food to their friends who are afraid to come out. [12:46] That's the real impact of this. And it far outweighs any benefit that's being accrued by these [12:54] by these heavy-handed tactics. Well, in terms of getting to a place where, [13:01] you know, this can be settled peacefully, one of the things the administration argues again and again [13:06] is, oh, we were forced to do all this because the last administration, you know, didn't do adequate [13:12] jobs when a job at the border. But they also point to sanctuary laws. Maine is about to have a law in [13:19] place by this summer that will prohibit local law enforcement from working with federal authorities on [13:23] immigration enforcement. Is there a way forward here between states like Maine and the federal [13:34] government when it comes to peacefully extracting, peacefully, you know, carrying out interior enforcement? [13:43] Well, you put your finger on it, Margaret, in the last interview. The question is not, [13:47] should we enforce the law? Should we be trying to expel dangerous criminals? The question is, [13:52] how is it done? I did a little research this morning. Obama, during his administration, [13:57] there were something like 2.7 million removals. But you didn't have people roaming the streets [14:03] with masks on. By the way, I've never seen law enforcement with masks on in my life. Where I come [14:08] from, the people wearing masks are the bad guys. But you didn't have this heavy-handed, heavily armed, [14:15] you know, bulletproof vest kind of thing. And there were no incidents that I could find of the kind [14:20] that we've seen just in the last few weeks in Minnesota. During that 2.7 million removals during [14:26] Obama's administration, we've got about 600,000 and we're having these incidents all over the country. [14:32] So it's not necessary. You can enforce the laws against illegal immigration and people that are [14:39] criminals without ransacking our cities and terrorizing our residents. This is having reverberations [14:47] in Washington, as you well know. Leader Schumer said Democrats will not vote for the appropriations [14:52] bill if DHS funding is included. That means we could see a partial shutdown here. Do you know how [14:59] you're going to vote? Margaret, I hate shutdowns. I'm one of the people that helped negotiate the [15:05] solution to the last, the end of the last shutdown. But I can't vote for a bill that includes ACE funding [15:11] under these circumstances. What they're doing in my state, what we saw yesterday in Minneapolis, [15:17] there's an easy way out, by the way. Leader Thune could separate, which is what they did in the House, [15:24] separate the five other appropriation bills, put them on the floor. They would pass, I think, [15:29] overwhelmingly. Then let's take up DHS. And by the way, if those bills pass, 96% of the federal [15:35] government is funded. Take up DHS by itself. Let's have an honest negotiation, put some guardrails on [15:42] what's going on, some accountability, and that would solve this problem. We don't have to have a shutdown. [15:47] So that's your path to avoid a shutdown. But quickly, I want to ask you about rhetoric. In [15:51] Arizona, the state AG said, ICE is not real law enforcement. Minnesota's governor also said, [15:56] quit referring to these people as law enforcement. They're not law enforcement. [16:00] Do you consider ICE law enforcement? I guess I technically would, but I don't. Again, [16:10] well, let me put it in the words of the sheriff in Cumberland County, Maine, when they took one of his [16:15] recruits. He called it Bush League policing. And I think that sort of summarizes it. And there's no [16:22] need for this overwhelming show of force. I believe what we're seeing is an attempt to intimidate the [16:28] American people. Again, armed people with masks and telling people they can't photograph what they're [16:36] doing and intimidating protesters. That's not America. And then you mentioned in your previous [16:42] interview about going into houses without any warrant. That's a blatant violation of the Fourth [16:49] Amendment. These people are acting outside the Constitution. They're ignoring our laws. [16:53] And we just can't keep supporting that. All right. Senator King, thank you for joining us today. We'll be right back. [17:00] In a speech at Davos last week, Canada's Prime Minister Mark Carney never mentioned President Trump [17:10] by name, but he rebuked his trade wars as coercion. And he suggested the U.S. has created a rupture [17:17] in the world order. We spoke with the outgoing Canadian ambassador to the United States, Kirsten Hillman, [17:23] on Friday. Take a listen. We're not in the middle of a divorce, but we are in the middle of a change. [17:30] There's no question about it. I think that we are finding ourselves, quite frankly, in a situation where [17:38] some of the foundations that have governed our relationship for a long time, that, you know, [17:44] integrated supply chains are good, that working together on strategic issues are important, [17:50] that looking out for each other in important ways is a number one priority. I think in some quarters, [17:56] Canadians feel that those foundations are being tested. We will adapt. We will make it through. [18:03] I have no doubt about that, but it's, yeah, it's a complicated time. [18:07] You have had a long career here in the United States, deeply involved with [18:10] trade in particular. You helped to negotiate that free trade deal known as USMCA during the first [18:16] Trump administration. President Trump was asked about it January 13th. He said, [18:21] I really don't care in terms of renewing it. There's no real advantage. We don't need Canada [18:28] products here. Is that free trade deal doomed? No, it is not doomed. That is my view. [18:36] All three countries, Canada, the US and Mexico did broad consultations, national consultations [18:42] with their business communities in particular, on what, how that agreement works for them. [18:48] And really without exception, the American comments back were sure we'd like to maybe [18:55] update this or change this a little bit. But job number one is to do no harm to this agreement, [19:00] which is the economic foundation of our continental partnership and leads to very important US [19:07] competitiveness and Canadian and Mexican competitiveness vis-a-vis other parts of this world. [19:13] So I think there's, I think that we have to believe that our political leaders are going to be [19:18] listening to the people in the constituencies for whom that instrument was drawn up. And they're saying, [19:25] this is vital to us, do no harm. Because you heard the commerce secretary say at Davos, you know, [19:31] globalism isn't working. I mean, these free trade deals are part of that globalism. [19:35] And it was just a week ago, your prime minister was in Beijing and he described Canada's relationship [19:41] with China as more predictable than its relationship with the United States. He really meant more [19:47] predictable than the Trump administration's United States. Look, there's no question that the last [19:53] number of months have been unpredictable for us in our relationship with the United States. You know, [19:59] we have a trade agreement that had us virtually tariff-free between our two countries. And now [20:05] we have very serious tariffs on steel, aluminum, autos, lumber. And that's causing a lot of challenges [20:13] within our country. There are people that are losing their jobs or industries that are being reoriented [20:17] and it's very difficult. So that is seen as, yes, unpredictable. [20:22] But fortress North America had been an idea. I mean, the treasury secretary talked about it, [20:28] that the United States, Mexico, Canada, we could stand up together, you know, have shared values [20:33] and stand up to China. That seems dead if Canada is really describing a new alliance here with Beijing. [20:42] Well, I think we have to put this in perspective. The agreement that we did with China a few weeks ago [20:49] was a very focused and surgical agreement that was largely or almost exclusively designed to deescalate [20:56] some tariff escalation that had happened over the past year and a bit. So over the past year and a bit, [21:01] China had put very punitive tariffs on Canadian agricultural products and fish and seafood, [21:07] shutting Canadians out from one of their primary markets, if not for some of them their primary market. [21:13] And so we went to Beijing to re-establish market access for our farmers and our fishers. [21:20] It's exactly what the U.S. administration did in October when they re-established market access for U.S. [21:27] soy farmers and in exchange rolled back some tariffs and fees. So this is a very pragmatic, [21:32] very focused approach. I think it's important to put it in context. [21:35] I want to ask you what your prime minister said at Davos. He got a standing ovation for this speech. [21:42] He described a ruptured global order, the end of a nice story and the beginning of a new brutal reality, [21:50] which he described as a predatory one. Take a listen. [21:53] Stop invoking rules-based international order as though it still functions as advertised. [22:00] Call it what it is, a system of intensifying great power rivalry where the most powerful pursue [22:06] their interests using economic integration as coercion. He said, if you're not at the table, [22:11] then you're on the menu. What does this new world order look like? [22:14] Well, that's a good question. I mean, I think he laid out in his discussion, his speech, [22:20] his view of what is happening in our world. And it's a world in which rules that governed every [22:29] player in the globe, every country, were maybe not perfectly abided by, as he said, maybe not always [22:35] exactly exercised as one would hope, but still were sufficient to form the basis of the prosperity, [22:45] the stability, the predictability that we all used to maximize peace and stability and maximize [22:53] economic reality. So we're moving away our economic benefits and we're moving away from that. [22:59] And we have to countries like ours have to figure out what that means for us. I think that what it does [23:03] mean for us is that we can't walk away from our principles. We can't walk away from our belief in [23:11] rules that are to be abided by by everyone if they commit to them. But at the same time, we have to [23:18] be pragmatic and we have to look inward to control what we can within our own economies to be as resilient [23:25] as we possibly can within our own economies. And part of that means engaging pragmatically [23:31] with a broad array of countries around the world in trade agreements, in investment relationships, [23:39] and in partnerships. President Trump posted on social media that Canada is against the Golden Dome [23:46] over Greenland and has voted against it to choose to be closer to China. Yet, President Trump had [23:52] previously talked about Canada participating in this Golden Dome project, which isn't yet built, but it's [23:57] supposed to be missile layered missile defense, as I understand it. Do you know what he's talking [24:03] about that Canada has rejected? No, I'm afraid I don't. But what I can say about the Golden Dome is [24:08] this. Canada is investing over 80 billion dollars over the next five years in our defense systems. [24:18] And a big part of that is Arctic defense. And a big part of our Arctic defense investments [24:23] are something called over the horizon radar, which is a system that allows us to see the threats that [24:27] are coming into the Arctic before they arrive. So that is part. And when we have talked to the [24:33] president about protecting our hemisphere, we have talked about ways in which our different [24:38] capabilities can work together so that we have eyes on the region and we cooperate in a way that [24:44] protects both of our countries. So the president has described that as Canada wanting to plug in [24:49] to the system, as you understand it, that that's the better description, your own system that would [24:55] coordinate. Much as we do across all sorts of defense systems where we're interoperable, [25:00] we work together, we make our investments that make sense for Canada and defending our territory [25:06] and defending our sovereignty. But we work with the Americans and other allies to maximize the benefits [25:12] of those. So in short, you do think there needs to be more focus on Arctic defense, [25:17] but you're on board to help do that. We're deeply committed to our defense. Absolutely. [25:22] I need to ask you about NATO because you're also a partner at NATO. Yes. [25:25] The only time that NATO's Article 5 was ever invoked, and you know this, [25:29] was after the 9-11 attacks on this country. That collective defense clause, [25:34] an attack on one is an attack on all, meant that Europe and Canada, they sent troops right [25:40] alongside American troops on the battlefield in Afghanistan. Here's what President Trump said. [25:46] We've never needed them. We have never really asked anything of them. You know, [25:51] they'll say they sent some troops to Afghanistan or this or that. And they did. They stayed a little [25:56] back, a little off the front lines. He was speaking about all NATO troops, [26:00] but we did check. In about 40,000 Canadians deployed to Afghanistan between 2001 and 2014, [26:06] 158 were killed, 635 wounded in action. What is a remark like that do to people at home? [26:14] You know, I think what's most important is that we know what our Canadians have done. And I know that [26:22] your American armed forces are deeply respectful and deeply appreciative of having stood side by [26:31] side with Canadians in those very, very treacherous and difficult fights. We know that to be true. [26:36] They know that to be true. And that's what matters. [26:40] You can see the full interview with the ambassador on our website or on our YouTube channel. We'll be [26:45] right back. Before we go, we wanted to note the death of 30-year-old Abed Shat, a freelance cameraman [26:55] who has worked with CBS News throughout the Israel-Hamas war. Abed was killed in an Israeli airstrike on [27:02] Wednesday along with two other journalists. Shat was filming aid distribution with a group called the [27:07] Egyptian Humanitarian Committee, and the EHC says the vehicle he was in was marked with its logo. [27:14] The Israel Defense Forces say the strike targeted a Hamas-affiliated drone. The Committee to Protect [27:20] Journalists reports that more than 250 media workers have been killed in Gaza since the October 7th attacks. [27:27] That's it for us today. Thank you all for watching. Until next week. For Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brennan.