Face the Nation: Correspondents' panel

[0:00] Chris Krabs was director of the Cybersecurity [0:02] and Infrastructure Security Agency [0:04] during the first Trump administration. [0:06] And Sam Vinaigrad, a former counterterrorism official [0:09] at the Department of Homeland Security [0:11] during the Biden administration. [0:12] It's good to have you both here. [0:14] Good to be here. [0:15] We've heard so much in the past year [0:17] about AI, artificial intelligence, [0:19] in virtually every sector of the business world, [0:23] in national security. [0:25] You said AI, it's not just an app on your phone. [0:28] It's not just a computer chip. [0:29] It's energy. [0:30] It's data centers. [0:31] There are some really complex challenges here. [0:34] What are you looking at in the year ahead? [0:36] Well, starting exactly there, [0:39] just the diversity of sectors that are impacted by AI. [0:42] It is a incredibly complex global value chain. [0:46] It's chips. [0:47] We've heard a lot about the NVIDIA H200 chips [0:50] and then competing against Huawei and China. [0:53] It is software. [0:54] So China in the debate. [0:56] Right, and there's a significant tension [0:57] in the national security space on should we give China chips [1:02] or should we deprive them of chips? [1:04] And it seems for now that the side that wants to give China chips [1:09] and then extract value and revenue from it, [1:12] that team has won for now. [1:14] But broader than that, there's software, [1:16] there's infrastructure, there's data centers, [1:18] there's water, there's thermal management, [1:20] there is training, there's workforce. [1:23] So it is not just about the app that manifests on your phone. [1:28] It's the entirety of the economy. [1:30] Because it's reshaping so many sectors. [1:32] It's reshaping the way virtually every business operates. [1:37] If you go talk to CEOs, they're talking about how they can be [1:39] an AI-first company. [1:41] Are they happy with the results that they're seeing right now? [1:43] Absolutely not. [1:45] But they know two years, we're going to face this equivalent [1:48] of a Cambrian explosion of AI capabilities across the economy. [1:53] And Margaret, if I can just add, [1:54] it's not just reshaping how businesses operate. [1:57] It's also reshaping how governments operate. [1:59] If you look at AI, nothing is zero sum in national security. [2:02] It's not a net positive or a net negative. [2:04] AI, and I've seen this firsthand, [2:06] is changing the way that investigations are performed. [2:09] It allows law enforcement officials to comb through so much data [2:14] and to do investigations more efficiently. [2:16] It is allowing the US military to use certain autonomous vehicles [2:21] and weapons that can reduce civilian risk if managed appropriately [2:25] and more effectively engage in war fighting. [2:28] It's changing the way the intelligence community [2:30] is able to both collect and review data. [2:33] At the same time, it is opening up a whole new host of threats. [2:38] AI doesn't just level the playing field for certain actors. [2:42] It actually brings new players onto the pitch. [2:44] Because individuals, non-state actors, [2:47] have access to relatively low-cost technology that makes different kinds [2:52] of threats more credible and more effective. [2:54] You said something that was a little frightening to me. [2:57] You said, as technology gets more advanced, [2:59] the ability to anonymously hurt people exponentially increases. [3:04] What does that mean on the Homeland Security front? [3:07] AI gives actors, not just in the Homeland, but literally all around the world, [3:12] to very credibly pretend to be somebody else. [3:15] It is upending the whole notion of what identity is in today's day and age. [3:21] AI is allowing bad actors to very authentically and credibly pretend to be someone else, [3:27] both with their voices, with their faces, and then to deliver threats in a way that actually resonates. [3:33] So it's impersonating someone, but then also using AI to figure out where vulnerabilities are in a system, [3:40] and what a target audience or a target entity is going to respond to. [3:45] So I want both of you to weigh in on this, but Chris, we heard just last month the first documented case of a fully automated cyber attack by a foreign government. [3:54] This was the AI chatbot Claude. [3:56] They said the suspected Chinese hackers had used their AI to breach about 30 global organizations, [4:04] just to do it really quickly and efficiently as I understand it. [4:07] So whose job is it to protect against it? Is it the government's job or is it a private corporation to figure out how to protect against all these risks you laid out? [4:17] Well, I think there are two things in play right now. [4:19] One is what's the regulatory environment look like that requires the safe use of these platforms? [4:25] And we've seen a pullback on the regulatory front from this administration. [4:29] The Biden administration had an AI executive order that required certain notifications and safety testings. [4:35] That's been pulled back. Instead, we're in this innovation first model. [4:38] That was a light touch. This is no touch, you're saying. [4:42] This is, yes. Again, this is really putting the full weight of the government behind the U.S. technology industry, winning the global AI race. [4:55] That is the top priority. [4:57] And so what's happening in the meantime is you'd normally say, OK, the states are going to regulate. [5:02] But now you have the White House weighing in saying states cannot regulate in the AI space. [5:07] And again, CEOs want some guidance. They want governance. So they have to do it themselves. [5:12] So switching gears for a moment here, we're looking at 2026, a huge number of mass gatherings in the United States. [5:20] You've got FIFA World Cup, the Super Bowl, the nation's 250th anniversary. [5:25] Are you concerned about Homeland Security in the new year? [5:28] There are always a lot of threats facing the homeland. [5:30] What is materially different in the coming year, in 2026, is that there are structural issues that I fear make us more vulnerable to successful attack. [5:40] That includes the fact that the United States, probably for the first time in our history, is no longer viewed globally as the leader and poster child for rules-based international order. [5:51] Other actors feel like they don't have to follow the rules if we're not going to. That could introduce new threats. [5:57] At the same time, there has been a degradation in the systems of government that do identify threats and then work to prevent them, not just today, but over the medium and longer term. [6:09] We're going to take a quick break here, come back on the other side of it. More things to worry about in the new year in just a minute. Stay with us. [6:18] And we're back with Samantha Vinograd and Chris Krebs, both our CBS contributors. [6:23] Sam, you worked in Homeland Security under the Biden administration, and we heard at that time that the administration was just hamstrung unless Congress did something on the immigration front. [6:36] This administration is taking a completely different approach. [6:39] I mean, let's just look at what they did this year. Mass deportation campaigns, significant changes to legal immigration, border crossings are now at the lowest level in decades, secured major funding for ICE and CBP, half a million arrests conducted. [6:52] They repealed protected status for many immigrants, and now there's a travel ban or restrictions on about 39 countries total. [7:00] What is the longer term impact of these kind of really massive changes? [7:04] Well, to be clear, the Biden administration did take action in July of 2024 to try to curtail unlawful immigration. [7:13] December 2023, we saw almost 250,000 individuals unlawfully crossing our border. [7:19] By January 2025, that was down about 85 percent before Biden left office as a result of his executive order. [7:26] We are seeing and will likely continue to see a systemic dismemberment of lawful immigration pathways to the United States, and the administration has shared a variety of reasons for that. [7:38] Failure for refugees, for example, to assimilate into the United States, security concerns, and other matters. [7:44] But if you just look at the numbers, immigrants today account for over 15 percent of the U.S. labor force. [7:53] Millions of people in this country are immigrants. [7:56] And if we look at the economic impact of removing that talent, removing those people from this country, there will certainly be an economic impact, as well as, I do believe, a technological and innovative impact. [8:09] As we look at the individuals coming here on student visas, on H-1B visas and more, they are direct contributors to innovation in this country. [8:18] And I fear that we risk losing out on that and getting the balance wrong between security, economic growth, and innovation. [8:25] But on that point, Chris, the administration says you can financially sort of arrange for more H-1B visas. [8:32] These are the highly skilled workers. [8:34] Are we losing a competitive edge because of these restrictions? [8:37] I think this has been in play for several years, in fact, and going back even several administrations. [8:43] What the Chinese, for instance, have figured out is that if they put their own capital into their Silicon Valley equivalent, they can retain high Chinese talent that has typically gone to the U.S., gone to university in the U.S., and then stayed here because our venture capital space is booming. [9:01] The Chinese have figured it out. [9:02] And what we're seeing now, back to the risks piece, is that the Chinese are using their financial resources to pull highly advanced, highly capable engineers out of the U.S. and European workforce, bring them back, and then copy much of the technology that's giving us the edge. [9:23] So there is a connection here back to immigration policy changes, too. [9:27] Absolutely. [9:27] Sam, I want to ask you about another big event that's coming, the midterm races. [9:34] We have seen a lot of political violence or concern about political violence in months past. [9:41] The assassination of Charlie Kirk, the murder of a Minnesota lawmaker and her husband. [9:46] We saw Governor Shapiro's Pennsylvania residence burnt. [9:49] These are just some of the high-profile things. [9:52] There's more that's happened. [9:54] What do you anticipate? [9:55] Should we be fearful of a political environment and elections? [10:01] Politically motivated violence is probably the threat that keeps me up the most at night, particularly as we look at the year ahead. [10:08] Undoubtedly, the United States is viewed as one of the largest sources of conflict and homes of conflict in the world today, which is a seismic change, if you think about it. [10:17] But heading into the midterms and, of course, looking ahead to the presidential, we have already seen terrorism becoming a tool of choice in the homeland to settle both personal grievances and political vendettas. [10:30] The reasons for that are, of course, enhanced rhetoric, but also, frankly, enhanced access to like-minded individuals, enhanced access to tactics and techniques online, the ability to find out where your target is going to be and when, [10:44] and more, the rhetoric needs to be calmed down, but there also needs to be the right investments in critical infrastructure protection and in appropriately identifying foreign influence to try to stoke up political violence and other threats. [11:02] And there have been actual cutbacks in the things you just laid out as necessary tools in terms of the FBI, their task force on foreign influence operations. [11:12] Chris, the agency you used to work for, CISA, it's seen not just budget cuts, but just open jobs here. [11:20] What is going on? [11:21] Why not build up protection going into an environment like this? [11:25] It's just not a priority right now for this administration. [11:28] I think they believe that there were missteps in the past on what the Biden administration, even the first Trump administration did, on identifying and countering information operations, particularly as they relate to elections. [11:39] But we know that these threats are real. [11:41] We know these risks are real. [11:43] And we also know that they're multiplying. [11:44] Sam talked earlier about the exponential explosion of capabilities in the hands of bad actors and the explosion of bad actors themselves because of tools like AI. [11:53] When I think about the 26 midterms, we are going to be two to three generations beyond what the current AI model capabilities are. [12:02] So they're only going to be more sophisticated, more advanced, more capabilities in the hands of those foreign and domestic that want to disrupt our ability to choose who represents us in Congress. [12:15] Thank you very much both for sharing your expertise with us. [12:18] Thank you. [12:18] Thank you. [12:19] We'll be right back. [12:20] What's ahead in 2026? [12:23] It's time to check in with some of our exhausted Washington Beat reporters, including Chief Washington Correspondent Major Garrett, who also hosts The Takeout on our 24-7 digital network, Chief Washington Analyst Robert Costa, Justice Correspondent Scott McFarlane, Chief Legal Correspondent Jan Crawford, and Senior White House Reporter Jennifer Jacobs. [12:44] It's great to have you all here. [12:45] Exhausted but also energized. [12:47] You know, we've got to keep the energy going. [12:48] No, keep the coffee coming, Major. [12:50] We're going to need it for the year ahead. [12:53] But we looked at the polling, Costa. [12:55] I want to get your take on this because a majority of Americans disapprove of the president's signature policy issue, immigration, came in at 54%. [13:02] His approval of his handling of the economy, which is his other signature issue he was elected on, is now at 37%, according to our latest CBS poll. [13:12] Is the president frustrated with the perception of his first year? [13:15] Margaret, the Democrats are looking at those numbers, and that's why they're making their whole argument to the country about affordability. [13:22] They see real vulnerability for this administration on the economy. [13:25] But inside the White House, I would say the phrase is not affordability, it's self-confidence. [13:30] This president, behind the scenes, is telling his advisers to stay steady, to not have alarm. [13:36] There is frustration about press coverage. [13:37] There's frustration about how Republicans in Congress seem to be so worried ahead of the midterm, some heading for the exits with retirement. [13:44] The president, again and again in private conversations with his top officials, is insistent that the trade policy is working. [13:51] He's not going to pull off, pull back on tariffs at all. [13:54] He believes he can have a new start with the new Fed chairman coming in in 2026. [13:58] And so it's President Trump at the center driving this conversation and staving off any concern. [14:04] Jennifer, what do your sources tell you about how the president's going to tackle specifically some of these economic issues? [14:11] Housing costs are really eating into wages, and the president has been shown polling that showed this is a really hot issue for both Democratic voters and Republican voters alike. [14:20] The president has about a dozen proposals before him that have all sorts of ideas for how to lower mortgage costs, decrease rental costs. [14:30] They're thinking about creating a new savings account that would be similar to the 529 college savings account, but this would be for first-time homebuyers. [14:40] They're talking about federal lands, opening up federal lands for new housing construction. [14:45] He has scheduled meetings down in Florida while he's there for Christmas break to talk to his advisors about this. [14:51] I'm told that the president wants the housing cost issue to be the very first big policy decision that he launches in the new year sometime January or February. [15:01] Focusing in on that biggest contributor to inflation, shelter costs. [15:05] Jan, tariffs are at the very heart of the president's agenda, and we know the court is expected to decide soon on the legality on a certain set of the president's tariffs that he justified by citing fentanyl. [15:18] Should the White House be so confident that they're going to win? [15:22] I certainly didn't get that impression from the argument. [15:24] I mean, the chief justice, Justice Gorsuch, solid conservatives were asking questions really skeptical of the administration's arguments on tariffs. [15:33] It was kind of a tale of two arguments, though, because as that case kind of progressed, then they started asking questions skeptical of the other side. [15:41] So, I mean, I think that anyone that comes out and confidently predicts how the court's going to rule in this case is just wishful thinking. [15:48] I mean, it could be very close. I could see a 5-4 ruling, Trump losing. I could see a 6-3 decision. Perhaps Trump wins. [15:56] Scott, on the legal front, the president has gone after some perceived enemies in things like executive orders, announced, you know, stripping away of security clearances, even of people who don't even currently have one. [16:07] But he's made his point. But his attempt to prosecute opponents hasn't been quite as simple. What are you saying? [16:16] He campaigned a year ago, arguing he'd end the weaponization of the Department of Justice against political enemies. [16:21] And what do we see in 2025? An awful lot of investigations and criminal cases against his political critics. [16:27] We saw these flailing attempts to charge James Comey and Letitia James, the New York attorney general. [16:34] Those cases were dismissed. And twice in the past few weeks, grand juries have said no to efforts to try to resuscitate the case against Letitia James. [16:42] Grand juries rarely say no to prosecutors. That was a profound thing. [16:47] And I think more fundamentally, Margaret, it's not just the cases or the investigations or the calls. [16:52] It's the changes inside the Department of Justice. They have purged out prosecutors who handle cases Trump doesn't like, bringing in potentially new voices that critics would say are poised to weaponize against critics. [17:05] And a tacit admission from the White House chief of staff that there is a retribution campaign in the article written by Vanity Fair, Chris Whipple. [17:13] Susie Wiles said, yes, she was going to try to put a time limit on that unsuccessfully. [17:17] But acknowledging what Scott just said is a real thing. [17:21] Well, on this question, though, of limits to authority, Major, we've seen some limits to congressional power or at least willingness to exert its authority. [17:31] Do you think that's going to change this year? The political contours of the Congress going into 2026 are going to really flow through how anxious are Republicans about their own ability to obtain reelection? [17:43] And do they have to create some noticeable difference between themselves and the president and the Trump administration? [17:49] So all 2025, the answer that was no. We're good. We're staying in with Trump. [17:52] But if the atmosphere, which currently exists, leading to some retirements, continues to worsen, you will see more congressional pushback. [18:00] Does it manifold in a way that stops Trump and the administration cold? No, but it complicates things. [18:05] And if anyone leaves the cabinet, the idea of who the nominee is and what their Senate confirmation prospects are will be filtered through this. [18:13] Costa, on that point, do you see departures from the cabinet happening? [18:18] It's very possible, though. President Trump is not one to just make a move immediately because there's a flurry of news, negative news, about one of his cabinet members. [18:30] We see he often takes his time to make some of these decisions, and he doesn't like to be pressured to get rid of anybody. [18:37] But there are so many people in the so-called MAGA universe who want these slots, and they are able to get access to this president. [18:45] A lot of these cabinet officials I've spoken to privately and their top aides say they're going to try to make it through the midterm elections and then leave. [18:52] But if the president is feeling pressure to make some kind of significant change ahead of the midterms, I wouldn't rule anything out based on my reporting. [18:59] I can tell you, Margaret, this is not cabinet members, but this is in the West Wing. [19:03] That main pack of inner circle advisers is going to stay intact, and that includes Suzy Wiles and Stephen Miller and Caroline Levitt. [19:10] On the way down that core group of people, they're not going anywhere. [19:14] I think we will see some senior advisers in the West Wing leave. [19:18] Just keep in mind that there are some advisers that have young children, so they might be leaving for family reasons. [19:23] Jen, there is a perception that the Supreme Court has shown limited resistance to the president's efforts to expand the powers of the executive. [19:32] Do you think that's fair? [19:33] And do you think on that big case that's coming with birthright citizenship that they will find in his favor? [19:40] I think there is a perception because of the way the court has handled some of these emergency requests from the Trump administration to step in to these cases and put lower court rulings on hold while the litigation plays out. [19:54] So that would let the policies take effect. [19:56] And the Trump administration has had tremendous success. [19:59] I mean, well over 20 such requests have been granted to let some of these policies go into effect, whether it's on deportations, on immigration stops, mass firings. [20:12] But those are temporary interim orders. [20:15] And the administration has been very strategic and only appealing these adverse rulings from courts below that it thinks it can win. [20:22] Again, these are just interim orders. [20:24] Once we do get to the merits, I don't think Trump's going to win all these cases. [20:27] And I certainly don't think he's going to win the birthright citizenship case. [20:31] You don't? [20:31] No, absolutely not. [20:32] He may not win the tariffs case. [20:34] Right now it's looking great for Trump in the Supreme Court, but it may look very different come June when we've kind of gotten through some of these big landmark rulings. [20:42] And Jan's beat is going to be at the center of the 2026 politics. [20:45] Tariffs, Voting Rights Act, and birthright citizenship all will have massive political consequences. [20:50] Oh, and so many social issue cases as well. [20:53] Transgender participation in girls' sports. [20:56] We've got two huge gun rights cases. [20:58] This is a highly consequential term for the court. [21:01] And, you know, it's going to be in conflict, I think, with President Trump by the end of the term because he's not going to like all these rulings. [21:07] And we'll be right back with more from our panel. [21:11] And we're back with our panel predictions for 2026. [21:16] Robert Costa. [21:16] My motto as a reporter is assume nothing. [21:20] And we're very early in the 2028 presidential cycle and discussion. [21:24] Governor Gavin Newsom of California, Governor Shapiro of Pennsylvania, Governor Pritzker of Illinois, the list goes on. [21:30] But my prediction is in 2026 we're going to see some names we're not discussing at all start to emerge as possible contenders for the Democrats in 2028. [21:39] Some celebrities might come into the mix. [21:41] And one name I would venture, based on some recent reporting, Stephen A. Smith, the sports personality, is talking to people in the Democratic Party about whether he has a future, whether he runs or not, TBD. [21:53] But something to watch, celebrity politics in the age of Trump on both sides. [21:57] Jan Crawford. [22:00] I'm going to revisit a prediction I made last year when I kind of confidently said that Justice Alito was probably going to retire and give President Trump his fourth nomination to the Supreme Court. [22:11] Sources close to Justice Alito say he has not made up his mind. [22:15] He, in many ways, is too young to retire. [22:18] He's 75 years old. [22:20] But then there's the concern that he's too old not to. [22:23] Because if he cares about his legacy, and he is that intellectual leader of the conservative wing, if he cares about his legacy with a Republican in the White House, a Republican-controlled Senate, this year would be the best time for him to retire. [22:38] Scott? [22:39] I think Americans will begin or increasingly feel the effects of doge. [22:43] There's an awful lot of people who lost their jobs in the last 12 months. [22:46] A lot of longtime career civil servants who were good at delivering products for the American citizens. [22:52] In my world, the Department of Justice got rid of 5,000 people. [22:57] That can't help but slow down prosecutions, investigations, and doing right by American people. [23:02] And that's true across the board in Washington. [23:04] Jennifer? [23:05] Fraud investigations. [23:06] I think you're going to see this administration really dig in deeper to try to find evidence that proves fraud in various government programs, people cheating the system, trying to fleece taxpayers. [23:18] Major? [23:18] So I'm going to be the glue for this process because we have predictions and underreported. [23:22] Mine merged together. [23:23] So the prediction is data centers and AI expansion will be an underappreciated but potent political issue in 2026. [23:32] Eight executive orders signed by President Trump related to artificial intelligence, just behind tariffs and immigration. [23:38] He has made himself the AI president. [23:41] Yet, let me give you some names of states. [23:43] Indiana, Arizona, Missouri, Texas, all in one way or another on the Republican side are up in arms about either AI regulation, lack thereof, or data centers and their implications. [23:53] 60% in our most recent poll, nearly 60% of Americans believe artificial intelligence will not increase jobs but take jobs away. [24:01] And 44% in our most recent poll want more regulation of AI than less. [24:05] This is a wedge issue that Democrats have identified because it is not cohered on the MAGA side. [24:12] The president has already put down his chips on it. [24:14] Okay. [24:15] Underreported. [24:16] What did you want to report that you couldn't? [24:17] To Scott's point, I'm going to build on it. [24:19] Elon Musk and the Doge team, they promised to cut the federal workforce. [24:24] We're at the end of the year. [24:25] So what is the tally for the year? [24:27] It is 271,000 workers. [24:31] That's according to the latest jobs report that showed how many workers the federal government shed. [24:37] So just to put that into perspective, that's roughly the population of Madison, Wisconsin. [24:42] So imagine if every single person in Madison, Wisconsin were to lose their job, either ousted or they leave their job. [24:48] So the bottom line on Doge is that they did not succeed in cutting overall government spending, [24:56] but they did fulfill their mission to trim the federal headcount by roughly about 10%. [25:03] And I think it's going to be important to track those workers and to see where they end up, what their fates are, [25:08] because they are not being scooped up in the private sector, at least not yet. [25:11] There was some attention, but not the requisite attention, to the thermonuclear use of pardons in 2025. [25:19] Blanket pardons, family pardons, preemptive pardons. [25:22] Is the next person going to bring it back to what we've enjoyed over the past couple centuries, [25:28] the traditional controversies around pardons? [25:31] Jan, underreported? [25:32] You know, there is a narrative that the Supreme Court is corrupt. [25:36] I mean, we saw that emerge in the wake of the Dobbs decision that overturned Roe versus Wade. [25:41] And now we see it that they're in the tank for Trump. [25:46] Not only is that narrative overreported, it is patently false and it is dangerous for the institution [25:53] and the public's faith and confidence in the rule of law. [25:56] This is a conservative Supreme Court. [25:58] It has been a conservative Supreme Court for 20 years. [26:01] People can disagree and do disagree with their opinions, but it's profoundly wrong to call [26:06] it or say corruption where there, in fact, is none. [26:10] What's underreported is any understanding of what this court's been doing for the past 20 [26:15] years. [26:15] It's views of its role vis-a-vis the other branches, how it sees the law, how it's trying [26:21] in its focus to restore some kind of accountability in our constitutional structure. [26:27] Again, this is a court that is functional. [26:30] It is consistent. [26:31] They are nine justices. [26:33] They don't necessarily see the Constitution the same way by any means or how to interpret [26:37] federal law. [26:38] They're in a struggle over the proper way to interpret the Constitution. [26:41] But that is as it should be. [26:43] And I think as we approach our 250th anniversary of this country, it's important to think about [26:49] the court and the rule of law as the justices are doing, especially if we hope to keep democracy [26:54] intact. [26:55] That's a big statement, Jan. [26:57] If we hope to keep democracy intact. [27:00] If we lose, if the public lose confidence in the role, the rule of law, I don't know what [27:05] that means for democracy. [27:07] Yeah. [27:09] And that's why I think some of the rhetoric about corruption is so, so profoundly irresponsible. [27:15] And it causes threats. [27:17] Oh, yes. [27:18] Which, again, I mean, the justices are under tremendous and federal judges as well. [27:22] Well, it's all institutions, including the Fourth Estate. [27:26] Bob Costa, you're underreported. [27:28] Just briefly, one of the most striking stories of the year politically, Zoran Mamdani, young... [27:34] He's underreported? [27:35] No, no. [27:35] Let me make my point. [27:38] One of the most striking stories was Mamdani's victory. [27:41] The big question a lot of people have is, well, how does this happen? [27:44] How does this young Democratic Socialist win in New York City? [27:47] In my view, the most underreported story of the year is how someone laid the foundation [27:51] for Zoran Mamdani, someone nearly 50 years older, Senator Bernie Sanders, independent, [27:56] Democratic Socialist of Vermont, had what's called a fight oligarchy tour earlier in 2025, [28:02] drawing thousands of people in red states and blue states. [28:05] Sanders enabled Mamdani and others like him to start to gain traction for Democratic Socialism [28:12] inside of the Democratic construct in this country in 2025. [28:16] Interesting indeed. [28:17] Thanks to all of you. [28:18] Thank you. [28:18] And good luck to us all in 2026. [28:21] We'll be right back. [28:22] Thanks for watching. [28:26] We want to wish all our viewers a very happy new year. [28:29] For Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brannan. [28:32] We'll see you in 2026.