Extended Interview: How an Influencer Took Down Swalwell

[0:00] Somebody was saying, you know, he sleeps with his staff and his interns, right? [0:03] I did not know that. And I got somebody saying, don't give him your phone number. [0:08] He will sext you in the middle of the night. And I was like, OK, I will not. [0:16] Hey, everybody, and welcome to Here's the Scoop from NBC News. I'm Yasmin Vesugian. [0:21] Today on the show, rumors of sexual misconduct about former California Congressman Eric Swalwell [0:25] had allegedly been circling Capitol Hill for years, but those were never verified. [0:31] We talked to the former elementary school teacher turned social media influencer who helped bring them to light. [0:37] You may not know her name, but you may have seen her in your social media feeds. [0:42] Uh-oh, SpaghettiOs, one voice, please. Oh, she just said that. Go ahead. Catch a bubble. [0:49] So that's Ariel Fodor, better known as Mrs. Frazzled. [0:53] A few years ago, the former elementary school teacher started using her teacher voice and gentle approach to do political satire. [1:00] Thumbs up or thumbs down? [1:01] Is Signal a secure, encrypted military communication system? Yes or no? No. [1:09] Her commentary gained her 1.4 million followers on TikTok and got the attention of political candidates, [1:15] including former Congressman Eric Swalwell. [1:17] When he jumped into the California governor's race, Ariel posted that he, quote, [1:21] acts like a normal human and not a robot. [1:24] And that is when her DMs blew up. [1:28] What came next ultimately led to Swalwell's withdrawal from the race and resignation. [1:32] An attorney for Eric Swalwell says he, quote, [1:35] categorically and unequivocally denies each and every allegation of sexual misconduct and assault that has been leveled against him. [1:42] So, how did Mrs. Frazzled bring about this political reckoning? [1:48] For that, I have Mrs. Frazzled with us, also known as Ariel Fodor. [1:53] Hi, Ariel. [1:55] Hi. Thank you so much for having me. Oh, my gosh. [1:58] It is so good to have you on. I've been watching your videos back to back in preparation for this interview. [2:06] So, I'm all read in and watched in on the awesome offering that you give to the world on a daily basis, it seems, on your socials. [2:16] Thank you. [2:17] I want to talk about how you got there first before we get into why it is we're talking today. [2:21] You were a kindergarten teacher, which comes across in every video that I've seen. [2:28] And now, now you're a political influencer. [2:32] How did you make that transition? Like, what happened there? [2:37] Oh, my goodness. And just to say, I also love everything you do. [2:40] So, like, this is, I'm so honored to be here. [2:43] Thank you. [2:43] And I really just started out because I was at a school that really talked about social justice a lot. [2:50] And we were learning all kinds of things about the intersection of education and with social justice and, by extension of that, politics. [2:57] Because everything that happens in a school is imposed on the school by a school board or a board of directors, if it's a private school or a charter school, even. [3:07] So, or the state or the federal government. [3:09] So, teaching in and of itself is political. [3:12] So, in 2019, 2020, I started posting to social media about things that I was learning and about things that were connections. [3:21] And, of course, we saw the murder of George Floyd that summer. [3:24] And that was really when I got my start on social media. [3:27] So, it was really a pretty seamless transition to talk about these types of things. [3:33] And then another seamless transition was Donald Trump existing. [3:40] One evening, we got finished with our teaching kindergartners on Zoom. [3:44] And we started saying, wouldn't it be funny if we talked to different people like our kindergarten students? [3:50] And we started, like, riffing and doing it. [3:52] And I was like, oh, my gosh. [3:53] I know just who needs to hear this. [3:56] And I started doing that shtick with Donald Trump and other politicians and public figures. [4:02] And it was kind of like a little lighter reprieve in between talking about heavier topics. [4:09] So, I mean, it was really kind of an easy transition from teaching into politics. [4:16] And I specifically cover education news and policy updates when I'm not doing this. [4:22] So, yeah, that's, I mean, it's been a long journey. [4:24] This is how I got here. [4:25] I want to talk about why we have you on the show today, which is what is going on with Eric Swalwell. [4:31] Because you have supported other Democratic politicians in the past, right? [4:35] You supported Gavin Newsom, Kamala Harris as well. [4:37] But then you decide to post about Congressman Eric Swalwell and his campaign in running for governor of the state of California. [4:46] And immediately when you started posting about this, you started getting messages about your support for him. [4:55] What were you being told? [4:57] Right off the bat, I got really out not normal messages. [5:03] I got somebody was saying, you know, he sleeps with his staff and his interns, right? [5:07] I did not know that. [5:08] And I got somebody saying, don't give him your phone number. [5:12] He will sext you in the middle of the night. [5:14] And I was like, okay, I will not. [5:17] And then one of my personal friends just kind of said, he's not a good guy. [5:24] Like, you need to be, like, really wary of this. [5:27] And I was like, okay, noted. [5:31] But I had already scheduled an interview with this guy, so, in person. [5:35] So I was like, I will keep an arm's distance. [5:38] But, you know, you hear a lot of things. [5:42] I mean, my personal friend's story, of course, I took seriously. [5:45] But you hear a lot of things. [5:48] Even though I've not received a warning like that about any other politician ever, I still just, you know, was like, who's to say? [5:57] I don't know. [5:58] An attorney for Swalwell has said that he, quote, unquote, categorically and unequivocally denies each and every allegation of sexual misconduct and assault that has been leveled against him. [6:07] But what I think is interesting about this, Ariel, being someone who also has a presence online, as I do, you get a lot of comments, right? [6:14] You get a lot of conspiracy theories, you get a lot of folks saying, this is what's happening with this person, this is a bad person, and you can't take it all at face value, right? [6:22] So how did you know or come to understand that this actually was different? [6:27] As the campaign continued on, I just kept hearing more things. [6:31] And from people closer and closer to me, people who worked on the Hill, friends that had been staffers, or people that I had met through just being in this space who are staffers. [6:43] And at one point, a congressperson, I just, like, over and over and over, I just kept hearing things. [6:51] And they all matched the same kind of pattern. [6:54] And that's what really alarmed me. [6:58] I, for lack of a better word, I mean, I was freaked out. [7:01] I didn't want to do this anymore because I was, like, bringing this up to people. [7:04] And they would say, yeah, that's just how the Hill is. [7:08] Like, everybody's, you know, but the difference with Swalwell is he's sleeping with interns, junior staff, like, not, not, like, high schoolers, but, like, you know, newbies. [7:18] And, like, people who are just getting their careers started. [7:21] And that's gross because they rely on you. [7:24] They, their whole career and their whole future, it seems, when you're that age especially, is in the office that you're working your first, like, job post-college, right? [7:34] So, that was what was flawed, was, like, everybody's sleeping with everybody, but, you know, he's, like, it's worse with him, and that's gross, and everybody knows not to talk to him. [7:45] This is what people were telling you. [7:46] Yes, over and over. [7:47] And I was, like, oh, my God. [7:49] And this was all online? [7:51] No. [7:51] This was all online, or these were actually conversations that you were having now? [7:54] Conversations in person. [7:55] At this point, once things took off, people would be, like, oh, I see Swalwell's running in your state. [8:01] And they would start to talk to me, people that I knew, people I'm friends with. [8:05] And I was just, like, we have, this, this is crazy. [8:10] What do you mean this is just how it is? [8:11] It can't be how it is. [8:13] There was a member of Congress that spoke to you? [8:15] Mm-hmm. [8:16] Who is that member of Congress? [8:18] I can't say. [8:19] But, there, you know, as we've seen now in the media, people have been speaking out that have been former speakers of the House. [8:27] And other politicians saying, yeah, we knew. [8:30] So, it was, like, an open secret. [8:32] And it was just something that was just known, which is, they didn't know about the assault, of course. [8:38] But, or the assault allegations, of course. [8:40] But, they, he certainly had a reputation. [8:44] So, what did you do next? [8:45] I started trying to get other people to talk about it. [8:48] I had found some things, I got a little obsessed about it, but I had found some things that were, like, half-reported a while ago that I suspected was Swalwell, but didn't know until later that it was. [9:02] But I was just gathering all this information, and I was, like, will somebody else do something about it? [9:08] You know, everybody I've ever known who has any proximity to politics or journalism or the media was getting a message from me being, like, hey, have you heard this? [9:16] Is it going to come out? [9:18] Is anybody going to do anything about it? [9:20] You were asking these questions at this point. [9:22] Yeah. [9:22] And nobody wants to tell a content creator. [9:26] Like, nobody is, like, going to feed a content creator. [9:31] Information. [9:31] What I have come to find out is called opposition research. [9:34] I learned that word. [9:35] Nobody's doing that. [9:37] So, they were, like, what does this lady want? [9:40] But I was just hoping that somebody would do something, because I was really concerned that he was about to get a new stomping ground. [9:47] I was worried that he was going to leave Washington, D.C., where he had done all this harm for so many years, and then show up in Sacramento and basically keep doing it or do it again. [9:57] And from what I had heard behind the scenes, it seemed to me like he was escalating his behavior. [10:01] So, I started to feel like it was an emergency. [10:05] And I said to one group chat, I said, if it doesn't come out by Friday, I am posting. [10:11] And every lawyer friend and every journalist friend I have was, like, as a person, I love that you're so committed to justice. [10:20] As a friend, I'm going to say, please don't do that. [10:24] And I said, don't tell, no. [10:27] And I literally stopped talking to people who were telling me not to for a while. [10:31] And I got an umbrella policy on my house. [10:33] And on March 22nd, I posted my tweet naming him. [10:37] You got an umbrella policy on your house because you were afraid you were going to be sued. [10:40] Yeah, because I knew that the story had been caught and killed before. [10:43] And I knew that 2016 and 2019, there were investigations that had basically hit dead ends because people didn't want to come forward. [10:50] They were scared. [10:52] And he is a very litigious man. [10:54] And a week before I posted, his chief of staff and now campaign manager texted me saying, hey, I heard you have some pretty serious concerns about our candidate. [11:03] And I had not named him yet. [11:04] So I was a little worried that I was going to get hit with something. [11:08] Because, as you know, you could be telling the truth. [11:11] But anybody can sue you for anything. [11:13] And you have to defend yourself in a court of law against allegations. [11:17] And that's how they get people. [11:18] Even with an anti-slap state, as I live in one, it's just you just never know if they're going to do something. [11:24] So I was like, okay, I'm going to make sure they can't take my house and then we're going to move on. [11:30] And I did. [11:31] I can only imagine what it feels like to go up against a congressperson who's running for the governor's office in the state of California in your home state. [11:43] Did you communicate with the women that had been reaching out to you about these allegations before you went public on that Friday? [11:49] Yeah, they knew that I was going to. [11:53] And, you know, nobody that had come forward to me had any concerns about it. [11:59] I mean, they know that I'm a really good fact checker. [12:02] I'm a really good researcher. [12:03] And they trusted me, even though it seemed like maybe I had lost my mind. [12:08] They were like, okay. [12:09] But nobody, I wasn't going to out anybody. [12:11] That's the thing. [12:12] I was very determined. [12:14] I was not going to post receipts. [12:15] I was not going to tell anybody's story. [12:17] I was just going to say what I knew because I wanted to be like a lightning rod. [12:23] I knew also the more people that attacked me, because I knew I would get attacked, I knew the more people would see it. [12:29] And the more people that had been victimized by Swalwell or had experiences with him would see it. [12:36] And I was like, that's what it's about. [12:37] Because at that point I had a lawyer for them because I had heard about NDAs and settlement agreements. [12:42] And I just wanted to make sure that women who basically had been told for years that they were the only one this had happened to would know that they weren't the only ones that this had happened to. [12:53] And that there was support for them if they chose to speak out about it more than like just going to a reporter or something. [13:04] Have you spoken to any of these women directly that have made these allegations about Swalwell? [13:10] Yeah. [13:10] I was actually in a group chat after Cheyenne Hunt posted. [13:14] Annika, Cheyenne and I were in a group chat from like April 1st until today. [13:19] And we just were pounding the pavement on it every day. [13:23] We were trying to, you know, we just were using everything in our disposal to make sure that we could get a critical mass of women [13:32] so that it could be investigated thoroughly and reported on and in a major publication, which was, as we know now, CNN. [13:39] It was so much of a whirlwind. [13:42] But Cheyenne and I never even crossed our sources. [13:45] I still call some of her sources nicknames because I didn't give her my contacts and she didn't give me her contacts [13:53] because we wanted to honor the people that were coming forward and make sure that they didn't feel like we were just like gossiping behind the scenes [14:01] because that was so not what this was about. [14:03] So, yeah, we were just like, we were in touch with our sources and then Annika every day. [14:09] Is there anything that you can share even anonymously, if you can, of what some of the women have told you [14:16] since you posted the video about the allegations made against Swalwell? [14:23] Yeah, I mean, it's been very touching and, you know, it's been a lot of like thank yous and I feel free and I feel like I can move on with my life [14:36] and things that have just been like making all I kept saying, all I do is cry. [14:40] Like I just was, I've been, I've received very, very touching messages from the women who've come forward, [14:46] including some of the Swalwell Jane Doe's who they, they sometimes Cheyenne and I would put people in touch with each other anonymously. [14:55] So I still don't know who they are, but it's just crazy that I, you know, don't know people's names, but we've had such conversations. [15:01] But what I keep saying to them is like, this wouldn't have happened without you coming forward. [15:08] I keep telling them that because it's true. [15:10] Like the only reason we're, where we are today and we're seeing this like second reckoning of women standing up and saying, [15:19] men cannot rely on our silence anymore. [15:21] The only reason is because those women came forward and it's through and through has been like a true, [15:29] like women supporting women, like working together and people can say whatever they want about like a whisper network or gossip. [15:37] The whisper network is what kept people safe. [15:41] And now we're like blowing it up. [15:43] What's interesting to me though, too, is something that you said earlier, [15:45] which is something that I've thought of a lot about as well. [15:48] Whereas this was kind of this quote unquote open secret on Capitol Hill, right? [15:52] What do you make of the fact that so many people, it seemed new of his alleged behavior? [16:01] Yeah, it's very disappointing. [16:03] And, you know, it's a real shame the way that people put politics above just like justice or doing the right thing. [16:18] And I don't, I just am so disappointed by it, but not surprised, I guess, because this is the world that we live in. [16:26] You know, it's just such a disservice, but that's why I think it's valuable for like my part in the trio that was working on getting this to the media and getting all the survivors connected. [16:44] My role was really somebody who I knew once Swalwell's team started running OPPO research on me, they weren't going to find anything. [16:52] I knew that I'm never going to run for office. [16:55] So they can start a file and say whatever they want about me. [16:58] I don't live in D.C. [17:00] This isn't my social circle. [17:01] This isn't my professional circle. [17:02] I do not ever need to go to D.C. again. [17:04] So they, in a way, couldn't hurt me in the way that they could hurt these women who had had things happen to them with their career and life being dangled over them like a carrot, you know. [17:17] So, you know, it's so important to me. [17:20] And I really deeply believe that if you have the opportunity and the privilege to speak up about some things, we don't always. [17:26] And a lot of my friends don't. [17:29] But, like, I had the privilege of not being able to be hurt by the people that wanted to hurt people coming forward. [17:35] And I was like, you know, I'm going to do this. [17:41] And it's really important to me. [17:42] You took out, though, an umbrella policy on your house. [17:45] Has he come for you? [17:45] Has Swalwell come for you legally? [17:48] No. [17:48] And you know what? [17:48] I expected him to. [17:50] When CNN went to comment, went to Swalwell for comment, they gave him the portions that we now have seen. [17:58] In the public where he's being accused of sexual assault. [18:02] And instead of cease and desisting me or Cheyenne, he used context clues to figure out who the anonymous women were and had his lawyer text them cease and desist in the middle of the night, at midnight. [18:17] And that was his version of getting, giving comment. [18:20] And it just really was despicable. [18:24] Because I did expect him to come for me before he came for the women. [18:27] But he didn't. [18:28] And I think that says a lot. [18:31] What was your reaction when he decided to drop out of the governor's race and step down in Congress? [18:38] My reaction was, great. [18:41] That's what you should do. [18:42] Get out of here. [18:43] But you should have never done the things that you did. [18:47] And this never should have happened. [18:49] And you will not evade justice by stepping down from your positions and leaving that race. [18:56] Justice is still going to come for you. [18:58] And it just, it is. [19:01] It's interesting because, like, bringing it full circle, I started this interview asking you about how you went from being a kindergarten teacher to being Mrs. Frazzled with almost a million followers on Instagram and followers everywhere else as well. [19:14] Do you ever stop and think, oh, my God, I broke this story. [19:19] And now this guy who was known across the country has subsequently stepped down. [19:28] And all of these women have found a voice. [19:30] Like, what? [19:32] How did I do that? [19:33] No, I don't know. [19:35] And that's such, I know that sounds like such a fake answer, but, like, people have been so kind about it. [19:42] But it just, I think because, like, you know, maybe because I just make videos at my house, I don't really think about it in that way. [19:51] I'm just, like, Swalwell's just a guy to me. [19:55] Like, I don't know. [19:57] Like, he's just a guy. [19:59] He's not a god. [20:00] But he did have this, like, hubris about him. [20:03] He was so bold and brazen with the things he was doing. [20:06] And it grossed me out and enraged me. [20:09] And I was, like, I don't care who you are. [20:12] Like, it's wrong. [20:13] I was assaulted and harassed in a workplace setting by a superior. [20:17] And I did not handle it great. [20:21] I didn't advocate for myself as much as I should have. [20:26] I was also early 20s. [20:28] I was young. [20:29] And I just not only am doing it because I think it's the right thing to do, [20:36] but because myself and my friends have not always had the ability to do it. [20:41] So it's super nice that everybody's like, yeah, you did that. [20:44] But I'm like, no, I really feel like we did it. [20:47] I couldn't have done it without, like I said, the women coming forward or Cheyenne or Annika or anybody like I or Allison Gordon. [20:55] Like, anybody who talked to me and, like, believed that we could do this together. [20:59] Like, I just don't see it as, like, something super noble. [21:06] I just, it seems to me like what should be done, I guess. [21:10] Do you go back to being Mrs. Frazzled? [21:12] Can we do that? [21:13] Can you do that? [21:14] Yeah. [21:15] Heck yeah. [21:15] I'm, like, so behind on education news. [21:17] It's insane. [21:18] I, like, keep telling my followers. [21:20] I promise you we will do the headlines from the past three weeks. [21:26] Um, I will get back to it. [21:29] But I just can't wait to, like, you know, keep doing what I do. [21:33] And I'm certainly never going to stop speaking up about injustice every time it comes up because I don't think I'm capable of that. [21:43] Um, but it's so funny to hear, like, people calling me and saying, like, these, these, like, people in D.C. don't know what to do with you. [21:53] And I'm like, what? [21:54] What do you mean? [21:54] And they're like, well, they know how to handle the media. [21:56] They don't know how to handle a mom who makes videos on the Internet and is a dem and can't, like, you know, they can't say I'm MAGA. [22:04] They can't say I'm bot. [22:05] They can't say I'm this, that I'm that. [22:07] And they're like, they don't know what to do with you. [22:11] I'm like, that's so silly. [22:12] In 2024, I mean, that presidential campaign was run and won on podcasts, on social media influencers, right? [22:20] Um, your kind, your people have become a huge part of, of, you know, of politics in a way and of winning races. [22:30] So are you going to stay engaged in this way? [22:35] Like, how do you see your role evolving, especially in a pretty huge election year? [22:41] Midterms are in November and then a presidential in just, you know, two years' time. [22:46] And a lot of school board races, by the way. [22:49] Well, and you guys had some major news in the L.A. County school districts as well, which I know that you talked about. [22:54] I mean, I mean, I, I personally am like super happy in my little corner. [23:02] I really believe that I will continue to, you know, if, if I hear something crazy, I will always, like I said, talk about it. [23:11] I will always bring it up and bring it to light just because that's what I just think we should do as human beings. [23:18] But, um, I would really like to just keep talking to people about public education and like the things that I think are the foundation for progress in our country. [23:30] And, you know, I am not going to, I think my investigative research days are behind me. [23:38] Um, it was really a lot, but, um, you know, it's all interconnected. [23:42] I know. [23:43] Right. [23:43] But it's all connected. [23:45] It's like, you know, everything we do in this world to try to like strive to make a better future, it's all part of the same kind of work. [23:57] And I think what, one thing I hope that not only content creators, but just people take away from this is like, you can stand up for what's right and you can make a difference. [24:10] Like you can, you just have to always think like, am I telling the truth? [24:17] Can I prove that? [24:18] And how am I going to support anybody who's been harmed by whatever is going on? [24:25] You know, that's really all we can do is take care of each other. [24:28] And, you know, the best disinfectant is sunlight. [24:32] So I think. [24:33] I like that. [24:34] I forget where I heard that. [24:36] Somebody will tell me. [24:37] But, um, yeah, I just, I think going into the next election cycles, the fact that there are politicians who are afraid of that, they should probably be afraid of that because I think we're done keeping their secrets. [24:54] Mrs. Frazzled, a.k.a. Ariel Fodor. [24:57] Thank you. [24:58] We thank you for watching and remember, stay updated on breaking news and top stories on the NBC News app or watch live on our YouTube channel.