Downed F-15E airman hid in Iran’s mountains as massive rescue unfolded

[0:00] I want to start with you, Jim. First of all, what are you learning about this rather daring U.S. operation to rescue the service member? [0:08] Yeah. Well, Wolf, it was daring and dangerous and highly intricate, involving dozens of warplanes, [0:16] hundreds of U.S. military personnel and intelligence personnel, [0:20] but also the remarkable actions of this missing pilot over the course of more than 24 hours as the military sought to bring him to safety. [0:30] It began on Friday, of course, when the F-15 was shot down. [0:35] The U.S. got their first communication from the missing weapons service officer later that evening, indicating that he was injured. [0:42] And then over the next more than 24-hour period, on multiple fronts, the U.S. military sprung into action, [0:50] organizing a search and rescue operation involving both aircraft but also boots on the ground, [0:56] as well as generating a misinformation campaign. [1:00] The U.S. government was trying to get inside Iran to, in effect, throw Iranian authorities or attempt to throw them off the scent, [1:06] saying that both U.S. pilots had by that point already been rescued. [1:10] Wasn't true. The Iranian government was doing its best to try to find the pilot first, [1:17] going so far as to encourage residents in the area to look for the pilot, report his location, even offering a reward. [1:24] And then that pilot, in the midst of this, found his way 7,000 feet up a ridgeline. [1:30] Hid there as his location was pinpointed, and then those forces went in. [1:35] Again, difficult operation, a lot of low-flying aircraft, including helicopters and fixed wing. [1:42] So dangerous that in the end, the U.S. lost two aircraft. [1:46] They weren't able to take off. They were later destroyed so that they wouldn't fall into Iranian hands. [1:51] But that pilot, taken to safety, time to treat those injuries, serious injuries, [1:58] though we are told he will recover. [2:00] Just a remarkable more than 24 hours with a tremendous outcome for the military, for the pilot, [2:07] and certainly for his family and loved ones. [2:09] So, Colonel, you know so much about the military. [2:12] One, I guess it's news here that this is seriously wounded. [2:15] It seemed different than the message from the president last night. [2:17] So hopefully he will recover here. [2:21] Secondly, what does this tell you about how complex this mission was [2:25] and what goes into the planning and the tactics in pulling something like this? [2:30] I'm going to let this off. [2:31] Yeah, Manu, so happy Easter. [2:33] There are a lot of different aspects to this that are, I think, critical to understand [2:37] because when you have a mission of this type, you have to bring a lot of different elements together. [2:43] So you have different aircraft that are being used in order to extract and extricate somebody who is in a position like this. [2:50] The added complication now appears to be the fact that the colonel was wounded [2:54] and apparently seriously wounded, according to the president. [2:57] And that is, of course, significant, [3:00] because that means probably that he had limited mobility [3:03] and that would also necessitate extra personnel coming in [3:07] to not only stabilize him potentially, but also to bring him out. [3:12] And that would have been a key element here [3:15] because with that extra personnel, there's extra danger. [3:18] And as President Trump mentioned in the statement that you just read, [3:22] the Iranians were getting close. [3:25] So that meant that they may have been thrown off the scent at first, [3:30] by the CIA disinformation and other things that were going on, [3:34] other deception campaigns that were probably being mounted in this case. [3:37] But the aspect of, you know, they were not, you know, [3:42] they were clearly paying attention to what was going on in their airspace. [3:46] And to some extent, they were able to follow what was actually happening. [3:49] And they may have picked up the scent, basically, that this operation was happening at a specific location. [3:54] But all of the different pieces and parts that come together really mean that every level of command, [3:59] from the squadron that actually affects the rescue, [4:02] all the way to the commander-in-chief, were heavily involved in this operation. [4:07] And that meant that there was intricate planning. [4:09] They had to have all the right resources in place. [4:12] And they also had to be prepared to abort the mission should personnel be in greater danger. [4:18] But they didn't have to do that in this situation. [4:20] I want you to weigh in on this video from overnight [4:22] because the Iranian statement has shared these images of this apparent aircraft wreckage [4:26] after the U.S. rescue operation. [4:28] You can see it on your screen. [4:29] So what do you make of these images, Colonel? [4:32] I mean, because don't Americans have the capability to have the practice as part of their training [4:38] to blow up some of their aircrafts if it's in enemy territory? [4:43] Yeah, absolutely, Manu. [4:44] And what you see here kind of reminds me of what happened at Desert One in 1980, [4:49] where the failed Iranian hostage rescue mission was taking place. [4:54] That, you know, the pictures that you see here look kind of like what you see [4:59] or saw at that Desert One location in southern Iran during that period. [5:04] But the key thing is that, you know, if these pictures are genuine, [5:08] what you're seeing is, you know, the aftereffects because, yes, [5:13] the practice is if an aircraft is damaged, if it's not flyable, [5:17] the practice is to blow that aircraft up. [5:20] It's better to blow up the equipment as opposed to losing the people. [5:24] And that's exactly what they probably did in a case like this if this video is genuine. [5:29] Let's talk about the mission to rescue that soldier. [5:33] It's incredibly impressive that the U.S. military pulled this off. [5:37] It's also incredibly dangerous. [5:40] I'm old enough to remember the ill-fated rescue mission Eagle Claw in 1980 [5:47] where we lost some service members who were trying to rescue the American hostages in Iran. [5:51] How does a mission like this happen? [5:55] Jake, this is actually—Eagle Claw is important. [5:57] I was in contact with a lot of my former colleagues in the Special Forces community [6:00] that I've just been so honored and privileged to work with over so many years, [6:03] and this is really full circle for that community. [6:06] You know, the Joint Special Operations Command, JSOC, was formed after that ill-fated operation. [6:11] We lost eight soldiers in 1980 in that operation in Iran to try to rescue Americans, those hostages. [6:17] Here we just went into Iran, the most hostile territory you can imagine, to rescue two Americans. [6:23] The operation was successful. [6:25] Obviously, there was some material damage. [6:27] It is extraordinary, and it is because of what we have done [6:30] through our military forces, through our special operators, [6:33] all the jointness and the training and everything else over so many years. [6:36] Nobody else can do this. [6:38] You know, an anecdote, when Iran's president was lost in a helicopter crash [6:43] some years ago in the Biden administration, [6:45] Iran actually sent a message to us asking if we could help find the helicopter. [6:49] So nobody else has these capabilities. [6:52] Nobody else is more determined to make sure when we send our men and women overseas, [6:57] we have that search and rescue capability on call [7:00] at any moment, and here they just demonstrated to the world what they can do. [7:04] So after the president gave the two- to three-week deadline, [7:07] two military aircraft were shot down. [7:10] CNN learned that U.S. intelligence is privately contradicting the president's claim. [7:14] They say Iran's missile stockpile is not decimated. [7:18] About half of it still exists, also drones. [7:21] The president also previously claimed that the Iranians have no anti-aircraft equipment. [7:26] That's obviously not true. [7:28] What does it say to you that Iran has successfully [7:30] downed two U.S. aircraft in recent days? [7:32] Thankfully, all of the Americans are safe and alive. [7:36] It's after thousands of sorties. [7:38] I think you have to put this in perspective. [7:40] We lost 44 aircraft in the 1991 Gulf War, [7:42] but obviously it's concerning if Iran still has these capabilities [7:45] that they can pop out and have an effective shot like this. [7:49] I know our military folks in CENTCOM are studying very much what happened. [7:53] Is this a new capability? Is this something we didn't fully anticipate? [7:56] What does it mean going forward? [7:58] Does it mean the Chinese and Russians are helpful? [8:00] Well, I certainly hope not. [8:02] One thing, Jake, that could bring coherence to this military campaign [8:05] is connecting a little bit to Russia, which you just mentioned. [8:08] The Iranian missile and drone program is a huge, huge international problem. [8:11] It's under Chapter 7 sanctions. [8:13] They proliferate this stuff to terrorists around the Middle East and to Russia. [8:16] Russia prosecutes its war in Ukraine with Iranian technology. [8:20] And you can actually connect the two. [8:22] Unfortunately, over the last week we've actually been dividing NATO, [8:26] and I think that actually helps the Russian position. [8:28] But no, this is a serious problem, Jake. [8:30] I hope after this amazing rescue we bring some coherence to the operation, [8:35] very clear on the objectives and how we're going to get that straight open. [8:38] I hope there's a deal, but I don't think there will be. [8:40] And then we're going to have some big decisions to make. [8:42] Brett McGurk, as always, thank you for your expertise. [8:45] Joining us now, Hal Kempfer is a retired U.S. Marine intelligence officer [8:49] and the CEO of a global risk intelligence and planning company. [8:53] Hal, thanks very much for being with us. [8:55] First off, what was your reaction when you learned the U.S. [8:58] had rescued this airman? [9:00] Well, Wolf, obviously I was very pleased to see we had a successful combat search [9:05] and rescue operation. [9:07] And then as the details started to unfold, it really says something about what we can do. [9:13] This is an operation that I think very few, if any, countries in the world could pull off. [9:18] It had a lot of moving parts. [9:20] There was the operational side. [9:22] There was the special operations side. [9:24] There was also this amazing intelligence effort, [9:26] and even a CIA discipline. [9:28] The CIA disinformation deception plan, if you will, [9:32] to mislead the Iranians during the rescue itself. [9:35] And it also says a lot about SIR training, survival, evasion, resistance, and escape. [9:40] The colonel did an amazing job, injured, was able to get to safe ground, [9:44] hunkered down, and was able to contact and basically make this whole thing happen. [9:49] We're also learning, Hal, that the CIA was the first to locate him [9:53] and was also running what was being described as a deception campaign inside Iran [9:58] while the rescue took place. [9:59] Can you take us through the CIA's role in this operation [10:02] and how the CIA officials might have been the first to locate him? [10:07] Well, obviously, a lot of that is classified, as you can well imagine, [10:12] so there's only so many details that we know. [10:14] But the CIA has tremendous assets. [10:16] They also have the ability to pull in all the assets of the rest of the intelligence community. [10:20] Obviously, they received contact from the colonel. [10:24] They knew where he was. [10:25] There's a variety of different means, [10:27] and I can only speculate [10:29] that these are signals intelligence and dealing with some overhead systems we have. [10:34] We're able to locate him. [10:36] And then they had to look around the area that's well within Iran. [10:39] It's near Isfahan. [10:41] It's near a populated area. [10:43] And they had to probably direct him, as my guess, [10:46] to where he could be safely hid until they could get to him [10:50] and then find the site where the C-130s had to land, [10:53] come up with this operation with the small birds, the special operators, [10:57] and they pulled it all off. [10:58] But the CIA was absolutely intricate, [11:00] even putting out the deception notice that he had been rescued [11:03] or was being rescued while they were mounting the rescue. [11:07] Yeah, to try to mislead the Iranians. [11:09] Even though the U.S. and Israel both say they have control of Iran's skies, [11:14] how dangerous was this mission for U.S. planes? [11:17] Well, we have air superiority. [11:20] We have air dominance. [11:21] But with that said, there is always inherent danger. [11:25] There's no way to take out every man, [11:28] every woman, every man in the world. [11:31] We've never declared air supremacy, [11:33] which means we completely own the skies. [11:35] And I think there's a reason for that, [11:37] is there is some latent capabilities. [11:39] And, of course, any time you get close to the ground, [11:42] as those Black Hawk helicopters did earlier in this operation, [11:45] they took ground fire. [11:46] So there is always some danger, inherent risk, [11:49] although we have apparently suppressed most of the air defense assets in Iran. [11:54] The president in today's social media, [11:57] he said, [11:58] in today's social media post threatened to target Iranian power plants [12:02] and Iranian bridges on Tuesday, [12:04] this coming Tuesday, [12:05] if the Strait of Hormuz isn't reopened. [12:08] What do you expect will happen in the coming days? [12:10] Well, I think that's a maximum pressure statement that he made. [12:14] But what I would expect is that there's targets, [12:17] if you will, [12:18] the critical infrastructure targets within Iran, [12:20] bridges, power plants. [12:22] And I can think of some other things that have dual use, [12:24] dual use purpose. [12:26] For example, [12:27] they support the military, [12:28] they support the military industrial complex. [12:30] At the same time, [12:31] they also have civilian applications. [12:33] Those will come under target. [12:34] I would also be looking very closely along the coastline, [12:37] and particularly those islands that are in the Strait of Hormuz [12:41] and even Kark Island further up the Persian Gulf. [12:44] All of these are target areas that might be considered.