Donald Trump Full Interview Live on Bloomberg

[0:01] thank you thank you thank you claire thank you the economic club of chicago thank you [0:07] david particularly i want to say two things at the beginning the first is just for the record [0:13] and for those people watching on television the economic club of chicago and bloomberg both [0:19] invited vice president harris to a similar interview about her economic plans that she [0:25] has declined so far and second just to set some parameters about this interview which i was just [0:31] discussing with president trump we're going to focus on business and the economy and that's partly [0:37] because this is a business audience but it's also because voters insist that the economy is the main [0:43] issue that matters when they vote so on that note let me invite on onto the stage president trump i [1:17] like that crowd that's a nice group of people thank you very much standing ovation thank you um president [1:29] trump thank you for doing this as we said and you had the reception there the business people of [1:34] chicago like everywhere else they like a lot of the things you want to do in terms of tax cuts [1:40] and some of the spending proposals but like many business people what they're often worried about [1:45] is the cost and the committee for responsible federal budget which is a bipartisan outfit [1:51] put out some predictions the other day if you add up all the promises you've made [1:55] and your plans would add 7.5 trillion dollars to the debt that's more than the twice the total [2:03] for vice president harris you're on course to push up debt up to 150 of gdp you know this is a very [2:11] business-like audience yeah why should they trust you with that because we're about growth she's got [2:15] no growth whatsoever and we're all about growth we're going to bring companies back to our country [2:21] you look at even today as i was driving over i see these empty old beautiful like steel mills and [2:28] factories that are empty and falling down some have been converted to senior citizens homes but that's [2:34] not going to do the trick and we're going to bring the companies back we're going to lower taxes still [2:39] further for companies that are going to make their product in the usa we're going to protect those [2:45] companies with strong tariffs because i'm a believer in tariffs i'm not sure that you are i don't think you [2:50] are but i congratulate you on your career but to me the most beautiful word in the dictionary is [2:58] tariff and it's my favorite word it needs a public relations uh firm to help but to me it's the most [3:07] beautiful word in the tariffs tariffs do you think that will bring in the revenues to use another [3:12] bipartisan group yeah peace and institute they say they only bring in 200 billion dollars that is [3:17] yeah only that's barely the cost of two of your promises yeah but that's like for for what company [3:22] are you talking about okay look i've i brought in with tariffs and i was just getting started then [3:28] covet came and we had a watch you know because i tell you what i did a very good job in covet nobody [3:33] knew what the hell it was i call it the china virus because i like being a little more accurate [3:37] but uh when that came but we we got hundreds of billions of dollars just from china alone and i [3:44] hadn't even started yet but tariffs are two uh two things if you look at it number one is for [3:50] protection of the companies that we have here and the new companies that will move in because we're [3:55] going to have thousands of companies coming into this country we're going to grow it like it's never [4:00] grown before and we're going to protect them when they come in because we're not going to have somebody [4:05] undercut them and i could give you an example of this if you want would you like me because it just [4:10] give me a quick example then i will come back just found out about it so i've been talking about for the [4:16] last year uh about detroit and how horribly it has been you know it's just horrible because we've [4:22] been talking about detroit's coming back for 40 years and it's never come back and it's very dependent [4:28] on the car industry well they've lost uh 60 of the business over a long period of time and what happened [4:35] is uh i found out a friend of mine builds auto plants that's all he does he builds auto plants that's [4:40] what he's good at he doesn't want to build an apartment all he wants to build is and he builds the biggest [4:45] in the world and for the last year and a half if anybody's heard me speak i would talk i was talking [4:51] about mexico is a tremendous challenge for us right now tremendous china is building massive auto plants [4:58] in mexico and they're going to build them and they're going to take those cars and sell them [5:02] into the united states they're very near the border and they're going to have all the advantages and [5:06] none of the disadvantages and that's going to be the end of michigan it's going to be the end of [5:10] frankly south carolina going to be the end of everything so i've been talking about this and [5:15] i said to him about nine months ago i said you know what i want you to do me a favor john his name is [5:20] john i don't want to give his last name because he might not like it but i said i want to see an auto [5:26] plant i want to go and see one of these you know you press a button and everything works right [5:30] i want to see one of the big ones he said all right good i said where do we go i'd like to go to [5:35] michigan i'd like to go to someplace in the united states he said no we can't do that why [5:39] we're not building anything big in the united states that's not we don't build the big ones here [5:44] i said where are you building the biggest ones he said in mexico we're building giant plants the [5:49] biggest plants anywhere in the world in mexico i said so you mean they're going to make cars [5:55] cheaply they have advantages over labor and other things and they're going to sell them into the [6:00] united states and they're going to put michigan out of business is that what i don't know anything [6:05] about that all i do is build the plants if you want to see a plant we'll go to mexico i'll show [6:09] you the biggest plant in the world that was nine months ago i saw him and i talked about it all [6:15] the time because i think it's a serious threat to our country because not only autos but other things [6:20] so then i see him two days ago i was talking at another club very nice club and like this except [6:27] i don't know i think you people are probably even wealthier okay this was this was in detroit okay which [6:33] was appropriate and i was talking i was showing you all sorts of charts about how their car you know it's [6:38] just gone down it's like terrible and i saw him and i said oh how are you doing how have you been i [6:45] said could i ask you how are those plants that you mentioned those giant plants that you're building in [6:51] mexico how is that coming along have you finished them no sir they abandoned the project when they [6:58] heard you're running they abandoned the project when they saw that you were winning and doing well [7:04] well i said well all the same i told them i told them and i said it publicly they're not going to sell [7:15] one car into the united states i said if i run this country if i'm going to be president of this country [7:21] i'm going to put a 100 200 2 000 percent tariff they're not going to sell one car into the united [7:28] states because we're not going to destroy our country by so when because i know you're an anti-tariff [7:34] guy but i'm i'm the exact opposite if if i had there was no other way i could have stopped them [7:41] other than what am i going to do negotiate with mexico or china you're not going to get anything from [7:45] that i said i'm going to put a 100 200 or 300 i'm going to put the highest tariff in history meaning [7:51] i'm going to stop them from ever selling a car into the united states so i just see the guy by accident i [7:56] see him he says sir they've abandoned and by the way they built foundations they were really rocking [8:02] they were going to do it they thought that i was going to win or maybe they're just holding off i [8:07] tell you this if i don't win those factories are going to wipe out this country they're the biggest [8:13] factories ever built for cars they're going to wipe out our country if she wins and she won't even [8:18] she doesn't know what the hell she's doing if she wins she's and she's not going to be thinking about [8:23] i i couldn't every speech i made having to do with cars but every speech i made having to do [8:28] with tariffs i'd mentioned that our country is being threatened by mexico now all of those things [8:35] beyond even the car companies all of those things are now dead they're dead i asked him will they [8:40] start probably not they're dead as a doornail if she gets in it'll start up again president trump i let [8:47] you give your example you talk you talked a lot about tariffs you look at the american economy 40 million [8:52] jobs rely on trade it accounts for 27 of gdp okay if you cut that off that's also going to affect on [8:59] many many business people here yeah tariffs also have another side isn't that something that you [9:05] have to acknowledge you could be plunging america into the biggest trade war since smootholy but there [9:10] are no you're going to you're going to stop you're going to there are tariffs already there are no [9:13] tariffs all you have to do is build your plant in the united states and you don't have any tariffs [9:18] people there's a lot of places a lot of places like this they rely there are a lot of jobs that [9:23] rely on foreigners coming here you're going to basically stop trade with china you're talking [9:28] about 60 60 percent tariffs on that you're talking as you said 100 200 percent on things you don't [9:34] really like you're also talking about 10 20 tariffs on the rest of the world that is going to have a [9:40] serious effect on the overall economy and yes you're going to find some people who would gain from [9:44] individual tariffs the overall effect could be massive i agree i agree it's going to have a [9:50] massive effect positive effect it's going to be a positive not a negative let me just let me just [9:56] no no let me give me i know how committed you are to this and it must be hard for you to you know [10:00] spend 25 years talking about tariffs as being negative and then have somebody explain to you that [10:05] you're totally wrong it'll have a negative it will have i'll go a step further if you don't do this [10:12] this country has no chance 40 million jobs is a lot of jobs to rely on they're all coming back [10:17] those are 40 million jobs those are 40 million jobs in america that rely on are you ready john [10:23] deer great company they announced about a year ago they're going to build big plants outside of the [10:29] united states right they're going to build them in mexico and you threaten they're also going to build [10:33] they stop that's right i said if john deer builds those plants and not selling anything into the united [10:38] states they just announced yesterday they're probably not going to build the plants okay [10:43] i kept the jobs jobs here and i'll keep the john deer will stay here and i'll tell john deer if you [10:48] do build outside of the united states you can if you want for instance india is a very tough country it's [10:54] not only china you know china is is the i would say probably the toughest but there are a lot of tough [11:01] you know what's very tough european union our beautiful european countries wonderful wonderful [11:07] if you add them up they're almost the size of us they treat us so badly we have a deficit i said [11:14] to angela merkel when she was there she's not there anymore i wonder why but when when she was there [11:19] i said angela how many chevrolets do we have in berlin why donald you have none i said that's right how [11:26] many fords do we have in frankfurt uh i don't know none i said that's right you know how many cars we have [11:34] mercedes-benz bmw and all of the different volkswagen millions and millions of cars and then i said farm [11:42] products you know they don't want our farm they don't want anything from us we have deficits that [11:47] are are crazy and we're not going to have anymore we're going to put tariffs on them and they're going [11:52] to do and you know what they can do the mercedes-benz will start building in the united states and they [11:57] have a little bit but you know what they really are assembly like in south carolina but they build [12:03] everything in germany and then they assemble it here they get away with murder because they say [12:07] oh yes we're building cars they don't build cars they take them out of a box and they assemble them [12:12] we could have our child do it can we can we come back let's come let's come let's come let's come [12:15] back to the europeans in a second what what about consumers people out there they're going to be the [12:20] biggest yeah critics say your tariffs will end up being like a national sales tax no because if you add [12:26] if you have america at the moment has three trillion dollars worth of imports you're going to add tariffs to [12:32] every single one of them that is going to push up the cost for all those people who want to buy [12:36] foreign goods now what's going to happen that is just simple mathematics president trump it's not [12:40] yeah it is but not the way you figured i was always very good at mathematics let me tell you you're [12:45] saying three trillion that's coming trillion dollars worth of and they don't have to pay and if by the [12:50] the higher the tariff the more likely it is to have them come into the higher the tariff the more you're [12:56] going to put on the value of that piece those goods the higher people are going to pay in shops [13:01] that ready the higher the tariff the more likely it is that the company will come into the united [13:08] states and build a factory in the united states so it doesn't have to pay the tariff that will [13:12] that will take that will take many many as you know that will take many years in fact i'll tell you [13:18] you know there's another theory is that uh the tariff you make it so high so horrible so obnoxious [13:25] that they'll come right away when i do the 10 percent 10 is really first of all 10 percent when [13:32] you collect it is hundreds of billions of dollars the numbers that you're talking all reducing our [13:38] deficit but really so there's two ways of looking at a tariff you can do it as a money-making [13:44] instrument or you can do it as something to get the companies now if you want the companies to come in [13:51] the tariff has to be a lot higher than 10 percent because 10 is not enough guys they're not going [13:56] to do it for 10 but you make a 50 tariff they're going to come in let me tell you the other thing [14:01] about tariffs that's great our steel companies as you know three four years ago they were all when i was [14:06] in office i saw a man from a big steel company and he was devastated i knew him for a long time [14:13] and it's been a tough business it was a great business many years ago and i would not let us steel be [14:18] sold to japanese by the way just too it just psychologically i think that's the nip on steel [14:23] as you you know yeah i wouldn't let yeah i would have let it be so but i would if this i would stop [14:29] it if it hasn't been completed by the time i'm president because i think it sets a horrible tone [14:35] but i i had a lot to do with steel we were going to lose all our steel companies because china as you [14:39] remember was dumping steel at levels that nobody's ever seen before and i put a 50 tax on that and [14:48] tariff on that all dumped steel and it was also bad steel was dirt what they call dirty steel was a [14:53] good steel which is a bad thing for structural components of buildings and planes and things [14:59] like that they were dumping crap into our country and i put a 50 tariff i started at 25 i raised it to [15:06] 50 because the 25 didn't quite do it i raised it to 50 and that did it they stopped dumping steel [15:13] and i saved our steel most by having that we saved it we saved our steel now what was left because [15:20] we've lost so much but there are certain companies you have to have there are certain things you have [15:24] to have steel you have to have if you go to war you know there's a possibility you go to war i kept [15:30] this out of work i was the only president in 82 years that kept you out of a war except i defeated isis but [15:35] i inherited that one no wars and by the way by the way and i think it's very important you can go you [15:43] know i call it the weave you can call it it's got a you have the weave as long as you end up in the [15:48] right location at the end but uh while we're talking about it we have never been so close to world war [15:54] three as we have are right now uh with what's going on in ukraine and russia and the middle east well [15:59] let's let's i had no wars in the whole world think of it and i talked them out of wars i took plenty [16:05] of countries out of wars i had the whole world other than isis which i inherited and i knocked out [16:12] isis in a matter of weeks it was supposed to take four to five years i did it in a matter of weeks [16:17] we actually have a great military we don't know how to use it you have a president with great respect [16:21] you i was asking about tariffs you've gone off about that seeing you brought up tariffs and foreign [16:25] policy many people would say the biggest problem with your tariffs is actually geopolitics you in [16:31] your first term you got some credit for effectively saying that there was a cult there was a cold war [16:37] against china that's what america was in you look at the last cold war against the soviet union america [16:43] won it in part because it rallied allies to it you're talking about slamming allies with 30 20 tariffs [16:51] isn't this time you're going to end up trying to rally the west and you're dividing it instead [16:56] isn't that the real problem with tariffs even beyond all the problems due to the economy where [17:00] you you keep on bringing up these individual examples but the overall effect is going to be [17:05] dramatic answer first answer first about foreign policy yeah i'll do that how does it help you take [17:10] on china turning all your allies again tremendously because china thinks we're a stupid country a very [17:17] stupid country they can't believe that somebody finally got wise to them not one president bush uh obama [17:26] barack hussein obama have you heard of him not one president not think of it not one president charged [17:33] china anything they said oh they are a third world nation they are developing well we're a developing [17:39] nation too take a look at detroit take a look at our cities we're a developing nation we we have to [17:44] develop more than they do they're we're way behind them you take a look at what's happened to our cities [17:49] so what i'm saying my question was about your allies not about china you are going to annoy the [17:54] our allies you need to rally rally behind you but our allies have taken advantage of us more so than [18:01] our enemies our allies are the european union we have a trade deficit of 300 billion dollars with the [18:08] european union our allies are japan you know abby was a very good friend of mine he was a great guy great [18:15] and i said to him in japan he was assassinated and he was a great man he really was i didn't see [18:22] too many like him and he was he got very sick and he had to take off and then he was he was actually [18:27] making a comeback he was going to make a comeback and he would have won easily but he was a great [18:32] gentleman handsome wonderful man respected by everybody and uh he i went to him and i said shinzo [18:41] we have to talk what trade and he goes i'll never forget it i know i said what do you know i knew [18:51] you'd come to me why do you say that because i can't believe i wouldn't tell the story if he was alive [18:58] actually said i can't believe how many years it's been that nobody even negotiated with us in america [19:06] i said shinzo you have to pay for your cars you're sending millions of cars you don't accept a car from [19:11] us you don't have one car that you accept and yet we're selling three million four million of your [19:16] cars i said shinzo on agriculture you won't even accept our agriculture and i renegotiated the whole [19:24] trade deal from a little disadvantage because i was stuck with a bad deal i mean i got we have trade [19:30] deals that were so bad that i said who are the people that are doing it they're either very stupid [19:35] or they're getting paid off okay it's one or the other it's very simple we have the worst trade deals [19:41] all over the world uh south korea i love south korea they're wonderful people extremely ambitious [19:47] they have a money machine we protect them from north korea and other people north korea is very [19:53] nuclear i got along with him very well kim jong-un but wait they don't pass anything and i said [20:00] this is crazy if i didn't put tariffs on you know the uh the motor companies the car companies they [20:09] make most of their money at small trucks i put tariffs on china but i put 27.5 percent otherwise [20:17] we'd be flooded with chinese cars and and all of our factories would close would have no jobs at all in [20:23] the auto industry that goes for electric by the way which is a killer yeah which i've explained and i [20:28] don't think i have to bore anybody by talking about it but i put tariffs on south korea because [20:34] they were sending in trucks and i put tariffs on fairly substantial tariffs do you know that our [20:40] car companies make almost all of their money with the small trucks suvs and small trucks if i if i took [20:46] those tariffs on you would be inundated every car company would be out of business and i got calls [20:52] from ford i got calls from everybody saying sir i can't believe you're doing this for us [20:59] you saved our company we were going they make all their money with us they make most of their money [21:04] with a small truck and you know the suvs many consumers ended up with more expensive cars but [21:09] let me just let me just come at you on foreign policy you wouldn't have a car company you have said [21:14] that taiwan should pay for u.s protection yeah i asked because this morning you just mentioned north [21:20] korea the chinese army literally as we speak are engaged in rehearsals for a full naval blockade of taiwan so [21:26] i suppose my question to you if china invades taiwan would you send american troops to defend it [21:32] well the reason they're doing it now is they're not going to do it afterwards okay so it's you know [21:36] so they're doing it now they want to do china look i had a i had a very i had a very good relationship [21:44] with president xi and a very good relationship with putin and a very good relationship with kim [21:49] jong-un who is a nuclear force that you won't even believe and by the way today it was announced for [21:54] those that he just blew up the railroad going into south korea that means south korea is now cut off [22:01] from russia and china and various other places i mean cut off by rail you just mentioned oh but [22:06] these are big things i have to mention yeah you just mentioned you just mentioned putin though and [22:10] this has been this controversy the past week can you say yes or no whether you have talked to vladimir [22:16] putin since you stopped being president well i don't comment on that but i will tell you that if i did [22:21] it's a smart thing if i'm friendly with people if i have a relationship with people that's a good [22:27] thing not a bad thing in terms of a country he's got two thousand nuclear weapons and so do we china [22:34] has a lot less but they'll catch us within five years that sounds very much that sounds very much [22:38] like i don't talk about you did talk to him i don't talk about no i don't talk about that you [22:42] don't talk about talking to netanyahu you talk about these people russia has never had [22:48] a president that they respect so much but more importantly or less importantly i guess [22:54] i went into russia and people said oh he likes putin and putin likes him let me tell you the first [23:00] thing i did was terminated nordstrom 2. nobody ever heard of nordstrom 2. it's a pipeline from russia [23:07] to germany and all over europe i said wait a minute to nato i said so let's get this straight my first [23:14] meeting i said so putin's building the biggest pipeline in the world he's going to germany but [23:20] all over europe and you're paying him billions of dollars a year billions of dollars a month you're [23:28] paying germany's paying billions of dollars a month and we're supposed to protect you against the guy [23:33] that you're paying all this money to so is there something wrong with my thinking so he's building a [23:40] pipeline to germany and we're spending and by the way until i got there we were spending almost a [23:46] hundred percent for nato because we had all these delinquent countries they weren't paying when i got [23:52] there i said you know what and and by the way my biggest fan is stoltenberg just leaving secretary [23:59] general of nato he said when bush came in he made a speech and left when obama came in he made a speech [24:04] and he said let me see your books and i found out in the books that nobody was paying there were only [24:12] seven countries that were paying we were supporting nato they screw us on trade so bad the european [24:20] nations and then on top of that they were screwing us on the military so they're taking a tremendous [24:26] advantage of us 350 billion dollars on trade and we're then supporting them in other words it's not [24:34] sustainable you can't keep doing this you can't have that china all of these countries and stupid [24:41] people made these deals i i saw trade deals that were so stupid that you have to be excuse me that [24:48] was so bad that you'd have to be an idiot to sign them and we signed them for years we had we had [24:56] i could tell you trade deals that i have never seen anything i said who would agree to this they had to [25:02] be corrupt they had to be corrupt to make those deals they had to be corrupt because there's no [25:08] way a rational human being i always say either corrupt or extremely stupid because there's no way [25:14] a rational human being would ever sign the trade deals that this country signed and i got out of many [25:21] of those deals i told south korea i'm sorry you're going to have to pay for your military we have 40 000 [25:26] troops over there you're going to have to pay you become a very wealthy country just to finish [25:32] you become a very well they said no no no we will not pay we will not we haven't paid since the korean [25:38] war i said no you got to pay i said would five billion dollars a year to start off with no no [25:45] they went crazy they agreed to two i got two billion dollars for nothing and i said here's what we're [25:53] going to do they said we can't agree to this because we have to go through parliament they have the [25:58] parliament or whatever their legislature is i said that's okay i fully understand that make it two [26:03] billion dollars but next year i'm going to talk to you again and i was going to make it five billion [26:08] and they knew it was coming the happiest people to see that it was biden instead of trump with them [26:15] south korea you know what they did they cut off the deal that i made where they were paying us [26:20] they're back to nothing because they went back to biden and they gave it to him for nothing they were [26:25] willing to pay we have 40 000 troops in harm's way very serious because you have north korea's very [26:32] serious power they have tremendous nuclear power and i said to south korea you got to pay and they [26:38] agreed to do it and biden then cut it back and it's a shame and and i could tell you 50 deals and if i [26:46] were there now they'd be paying us 10 billion dollars a year and you know what they'd be happy to do it [26:51] it's a money machine south korea you're going to mention taiwan you wanted to mention that you mentioned [26:55] you mentioned taiwan you said you would defend them you also seem to imply that on putin you would [27:00] not you putin you seem to imply that you had talked to him without actually confirming that i [27:05] don't comment on those things what about can i can i ask you a particular thing about the dollar [27:09] you've actually you talked about wars the new york economic club you said that if you lost the dollar [27:14] as a reserve currency it would be like america losing a war yeah you look at what you're going [27:19] to do in terms of protectionism drive countries to use the other currencies and all that debt is also [27:25] going to lessen the dollar's status as of the world's reserve currency if you worry about the [27:30] dollar is so secure your reserve currency is the strongest it'll ever be and uh you said you said [27:37] president trump at the moment there is a thing called the trump trade in the markets do you know [27:41] what that is the trump trade is very simple people are betting that your policies they're going to drive [27:46] up debt they're going to drive up inflation so they're going to drive up inflation interest rates [27:52] are the investors wrong yeah i had four years no inflation i had four years no inflation but that [27:58] was that was when you had much i had four years it's better than that and biden who has no idea where [28:05] the hell he is okay biden went two years with no inflation because he inherited from me and then they [28:12] started spending money like drunken sailors they spent so much money it was so ridiculous the money they [28:17] were spending they were spending on the green new scam a green new scam the green new deal you know [28:24] it was conceived of by aoc plus three she never even studied the environment in college she went to a [28:31] nice college uh she came out she just said the green new scam she just named all these things president [28:37] trump the issue the issue the markets are looking at the facts you are making all these promises latest one was car loans [28:44] you're flooding the thing with i'd giving giveaways but i was actually quite i was actually quite kind [28:49] to you i used seven trillion the upper estimate is 15 trillion people like the wall street journal [28:55] who's hardly a communist organization but you don't they have criticized you on this as well you are [29:00] running out enormous debt what does the wall street journal now i'm meeting with them tomorrow what [29:04] does the wall street journal they've been wrong about everything so have you by the way you've been wrong [29:09] you're trying to turn this you're trying to turn this you've been wrong no you're trying to turn [29:13] you're trying to turn this into debate there's a there are business people there are but you're [29:17] wrong you've been wrong you've been wrong all your life on this stuff you've been no let me tell you [29:22] about currency you kind of you know you're going jump in a lot of a lot of different subjects well [29:27] sure the reserve currency that's where you started right the reserve currency is under threat [29:35] because you have iran you have russia you have china once china is the one that you have to worry about [29:40] because they want it yeah they want to have the wand be the the the the thing of power so here's [29:46] what i'm doing again i hate to go back to it if somebody says and i know countries want to get out [29:53] because they don't respect our leadership they look at this guy they say you got to be kidding and [29:56] she's worse than him by the way she's i never thought i'd say this she is not as smart as biden if [30:02] you can believe this is not what we had four years of this this this lunacy and we can't have it anymore [30:08] we're not going to have a country left okay currency very important yes and if you want to go to third [30:14] world if you want to go to third world status lose your reserve currency we have to have that we cannot [30:20] lose it if you go to you'll go to third world status in this country because you take a look at the way [30:25] things are running if a country tells me uh sir we like you very much but we're going to no longer adhere [30:32] to being in the reserve currency uh we're not going to uh salute the dollar anymore i'll say that's okay [30:40] and uh you're going to pay a 100 percent tariff on everything you sell into the united states [30:46] and we love your product i hope you sell a lot of it into the united states but you're going to pay 100 [30:51] percent uh he will then follow it up by saying sir it would be an honor to stay with the reserve currency [30:58] i will be that will be like just playing that's not even chess that's checkers but you don't have [31:04] other listen to this you don't you don't have other people that can talk that way you know a lot of [31:09] people say we love trump's policy but we would like to have another messenger because we don't like [31:15] him he's a little bit crass and then actually it was lindsey graham i must say he was a progressive [31:20] in all fairness but lindsey graham said but trump's policy doesn't work without trump and there's a lot of truth [31:26] that uh macron was going to nice guy emmanuel he's a wise guy but he's for france and we're for the usa [31:35] you know this story he was going to tax american companies doing business in france a very substantial [31:42] tax and i told my people i'm not i didn't even like the companies but i i i'm representing american [31:50] companies and this guy so i said call macron and call his people and say we're not going to stand for that [31:57] and i got a mnuchin and you know a lot of guys smart guys if i can finish yeah i'll go longer if you [32:03] want it i know you've got to be able to finish a thought because it's very important you know this [32:11] is big stuff we're talking about you can't go that you've gone from the dollar so let me just tell you [32:16] so i said no i'm just telling you basic uh it's it's called the weave it's all these different things [32:21] happening so let me just say so i said to mnuchin call him up and say no way he did and he came back [32:30] to see me said they won't do it search too late i said to somebody else you come then i said let me do [32:35] it and i called them and i said emmanuel you're taxing american companies very substantially you're not [32:44] doing it with other companies you must think we're stupid it's not going to happen but don't [32:49] don't i cannot do anything it's too late or it was approved by a legislature i said that's okay [32:54] here's the story every bottle of wine and champagne that you send into the united states effective [33:01] immediately and i'm signing it as i speak uh i'm charging you 100 on every bottle of wine and [33:10] champagne you know they like the wine and champagne right every bottle of wine and champagne that comes [33:16] into the united states of america has a tax on starting on monday morning this was a friday of [33:22] 100 and that's better than you're doing okay and he said no no no you cannot do that i said i've done [33:32] it it's already signed monday morning goes may i call you back yes he calls me back in about three [33:38] minutes uh we have decided to remove the tax from the conference this i did this all day long but you [33:45] don't have you think biden does that i don't think so let me let me let me change let me ask you a [33:51] very factual question the federal reserve yeah you say you don't want interest rates to go higher you've [33:57] gone backwards and forwards about it depends on whether you want to keep jerome powell as chair of [34:02] the federal reserve his term as chair runs on to may 2026 would you seek to remove remove or demote him [34:11] look i think it's the greatest job in government you show up to the office once a month and you say [34:18] let's see flip a coin and everybody talks about you like you're a god oh what will he do i mean before [34:25] the guy used to walk into my office he was like begging he was a he was fine but you did you did [34:32] talk about you talked about removing him once i did because he was keeping the ridge too high [34:37] yeah and i was right and you would do that again in fact he actually dropped them too much when i did [34:44] this because i said i was threatening to terminate him there was a question as to whether or not you [34:50] could and there was an article in the new york times two half pages one page that i can do it by [34:56] lawyers one half page that i couldn't and that was enough for him and he dropped the hell out of the [35:00] rates he dropped them too much he went so he dropped them actually too much okay uh here's the story [35:08] i think that if you're a very good president with good sense you should be able to at least [35:15] talk to him i don't say make the decision at all but i i mean i'm i've been a very successful businessman [35:20] i've done really good much better now people are understanding how good i've done because they're [35:25] seeing it real much better than the fake news wants to give me credit for a really good no way i think [35:31] i have the right to say as a very good businessman and somebody that's used a lot of uh sense [35:38] i think i have the right to say that you know i think i'm i think i'm better than he would be [35:44] i think i'm better than most people would be in that position i think i have the right to say i [35:48] think you should go up or down a little bit i don't think i should be allowed to order it but i think i [35:53] have the right to put in comments uh as to whether or not interest rates should go up or down when you [35:58] when you looked at the supreme court you came up with a list of people i did who you thought of [36:02] replacing bringing in as supreme court justices would you do that with the federal well i no longer [36:07] need it when i it was a great thing in fact a lot of people said i got elected because of that [36:12] i was an unknown quantity i was very known as a business guy but i wasn't known as a political [36:17] person or the leader of a country and people were very worried about you know actually they were [36:23] worried am i going to be liberal if you want to know the truth and somebody said would you come up [36:29] with a list of 20 or 25 justices in this case mostly judges that you'd put in in case it were necessary [36:40] now it's amazing because i got three in four years most people get none because you know you put them in [36:45] you know you put them in the young you tend to put them in young uh only stupid people put old you [36:52] know you don't put old in because they're there for two years or three years you're a 78 year old man [36:58] i got three most a lot of judges a lot of presidents get none i got three and uh i think they've been [37:06] three great choices too by the way but just on the federal reserve i think they have been really great [37:13] choices but i got three judges and and and you know what they want to do they want to put up they [37:20] want to now put up up to 25 justices into the supreme court the radical left and that can't happen so [37:28] i think i've done a great job on putting in justices and 300 judges and that made a tremendous [37:33] difference in the country you know i was a little lucky because barack hussein obama did not get his [37:40] judges approved a lot of them so i ended up with 125 judges before i got there so mo again most [37:48] presidents don't even get to put a supreme court judge in because there's nine and you know they're [37:53] there for a long time most of them are there for a very long time and i got three which is a very [37:58] unusual situation i got three in four years maybe maybe we can change the subject technology thing you [38:04] wouldn't answer about the federal reserve the u.s justice department is thinking about breaking up [38:10] alphabet as google likes to be known now should google be broken up i just haven't gotten over [38:19] something the justice department did yesterday where virginia cleaned up its voter rolls and got rid of [38:28] thousands and thousands of bad votes and the justice department sued them that they should be allowed to [38:34] put those bad votes and illegal votes back in and let the people vote so i haven't i haven't gotten i [38:41] haven't gotten over that a lot of people have seen that they can't even believe it the question is [38:45] about google present john yeah look google's got a lot of power they're very bad to me very very [38:50] bad to me i mean i i i can speak from that standpoint uh they only have bad stories in other [38:56] words if i have 20 good stories and 20 bad stories and everyone's entitled to that you'll only see [39:02] the 20 bad stories and i called the head of google the other day and i said i'm getting a lot of good stories [39:10] lately but you don't find them in google i think it's a whole rigged deal i think google's rigged [39:14] just like our government is rigged all over the place you would break them up in other words i do [39:19] something but you have to have look i give them a lot of credit they become such a power it's such a [39:24] power and you got to give them credit for that uh how they became a power is you know really the [39:30] discussion at the same time it's it's a very dangerous thing because we want to have great companies we [39:39] don't want china to have these companies right now china is afraid of google right now you know [39:44] china is a very powerful very smart group of people i will tell you that from very personal [39:50] there's an example of a chinese tech company at the moment yeah tick tock yeah you initially wanted [39:54] to ban tick tock now you like it apparently for some reason to do with facebook yeah there is a [40:00] decision coming up if you became president yeah it's chinese parent would have to sell it i think [40:05] by january the 19th would you force them to do that so i originally uh had it all done and then i said [40:13] to congress your decision i i said i'm not gonna you know pull any strings nothing your decision you make [40:21] it but i had it all done and i said you make it and they decided not to make it i didn't care if they [40:28] made it or not because to me it was a flip of a coin you know you have some real first amendment problems [40:33] you have a lot of problems you just talked about chinese technology yeah the need to defend against [40:38] it yeah tick tock and the threat people see to many kind of american children and things like that [40:44] why do you no longer see you know as a security threat i think it is a threat frankly i think [40:50] everything's a threat there's nothing that's not a threat but sometimes you have to fight through [40:55] these threats you know you can't just like google i'm not a fan of google they treat me badly but if you [41:03] are you going to destroy the company by doing that if you do that are you going to destroy the company [41:09] what you can do without breaking it up is make sure that it's more fair they do treat me very badly oh [41:15] and he told me no way you're the number one person on all of google first stories i mean which probably [41:22] makes sense to be honest with you i actually believe most of them are bad stories but these are minor details [41:28] right and it's only bad because of the fake news because the news is really fake we that's the one [41:34] we really have to straighten and we have to straighten out our press because we have a corrupt press and [41:38] that's the one we really can i can i can i ask you can i ask you about um silicon i was in silicon valley [41:45] recently you talk to the tech bosses and the tech people and there seems to be a real fear that what [41:51] you would do with tech is you would hand it over to elon musk and say you sort it out no no i have great [41:56] respect for elon uh look i saw that rocket ship come in yesterday and go right back to where it [42:03] took off to the gantry i guess they call it and i said what the hell it was i was on a phone talking [42:11] about probably politics and the television and the television's on and i'm seeing this big thing [42:19] where the white paint was burned off it from the you know thousands of miles an hour the heat [42:24] and i see this big massive tube that's 10 stories 20 stories tall come down i i told the person on [42:32] the phone wait a minute i'm seeing something that's i don't believe it neither does anybody else here [42:38] and i said wait a minute i put the i forgot the guy was on the phone he waited for a half hour [42:43] and i watched i watched that come down and i watched it come down and come right in between those big [42:50] levers and i said and it looked to me like i was going to crash it was coming in hot and all of a [42:55] sudden boom you see the motor the the the fire kick in and i called elon i said that's the most [43:02] incredible thing i said can russia do that nope i said can the united states do it nope he's the only [43:09] way they can do it and i said you know i want to put him in charge of deregulation not deregulation [43:14] uh cutting cutting cutting wasteful spending cutting everything which would include deregulation [43:21] every president comes in and talks about cutting wasteful spending oh there's tremendous [43:25] well give me an example of something you will do that will get rid of government spending let me [43:30] give you an example when i came into government i was the first thing an example going forward well [43:36] no this is this is going forward because it's the same thing when i first sat down a general came [43:42] into my office and he said sir it's nice to meet you would you please sign this i said what is it [43:47] it's a contract for a new air force one which is actually two planes not one two boeing 747 [43:55] and i said how much is it 5.7 billion dollars it's a hell of an expensive plan but there's reasons for [44:00] that he said nope i'm not signing it i said who negotiated barack hussein obama i said i'm not signing [44:08] it why because he because it's you there's a lot of fat i said i'm not sorry it's got to have a three [44:13] on it anyway long story short some of you have heard this i got it down to because first week they [44:21] cut off 400 million he said i'll cut i met with the head of boeing wait dennis i said dennis you got [44:28] to have a three 5.7 is too much 5.7 billion he said the most i'll take off is 400 million dollars i said [44:35] well that's not bad for one conversation so he got it down i said nope i'm not accepting then he took [44:41] off two more then he took off anyway two months went by three months went by i thought we blew the [44:46] deal and i was okay with me i didn't care but we should have a new air force one when we see these [44:51] planes from saudi arabia from different countries brand new and ours is like 32 years old and it's a [44:59] very different plane it's a much smaller plane near the whole thing the united states should have the [45:03] best plane i will tell you not for me but we should let me let me let me give you an example would you [45:08] would you so he said he calls up after like two three months i didn't call him which is the best way to [45:14] buy something don't call back and he goes in fact when he called me i said i wonder what the hell he wants [45:20] that's a good way to negotiate let me tell you so calls back said sir three billion nine hundred ninety [45:28] nine million nine nine nine nine nine and ninety nine cents one penny above below four billion so i [45:36] said you got yourself a deal then i said to him let me ask you a question so you had a deal at 5.7 [45:44] billion and in a period of two months i got 1.7 billion off that means you're going to make 1.7 [45:52] billion profit on an airplane did nobody ever negotiate with you well not really sir they just [46:01] this is the price and they said we'll take it and i said you know and then i learned that was my first [46:07] experience you know from that but then i learned everything is like that there is so much way so i'm [46:13] getting think of this the exact same plane for 1.7 billion less exact except i have a better paint job [46:22] okay much better paint job a different color red white and blue is beautiful uh and if you look at [46:29] every contract that's one contract and relatively small compared to most think of it you save 1.7 [46:38] billion because you negotiate every deal is like that we're building ships that are costing two three [46:44] times more you can give me an example there's tremendous waste fraud and abuse in our country and [46:50] if you could cut it you would have a surplus without even going into growth but growth we will [46:58] grow we're going to bring companies and jobs in at levels that you've never seen and you would never [47:06] be able to do it because you're not a believer in tariffs let me tell you the only way you can do it [47:12] is through the threat of tariffs it's the only way you can do it can we can we come back to one [47:17] thing on that deal making you look out across this room there are a lot of there's some big businesses [47:22] but a lot of small ones look at the way you've given us you've given us a lot of examples of [47:27] things where you've negotiated with the heads of big businesses right give you an example when you put [47:32] the tariffs on china much smaller than you're planning to do at the moment when you put them on apple came [47:38] you you negotiated a difference for them i did that's much harder for small business people isn't the [47:45] problem with the way that you do these kind of deals you're bound to deal with the big companies [47:50] it's the small companies who get hit by all these different things and can't find exceptions oh we [47:55] have exceptions no no we had an exception rule i gave apple an exception tim cook is a great apple is [48:01] not a small company and no no please please don't give a tim cook but here's what the question is about [48:05] small business yes but what will you do for them no but we have a very talented group of people bob [48:11] lighthizer did a very good job we had great people we had central casting these are great and a large [48:17] group of people we made exceptions uh in the case of apple they need an exception you know why because [48:24] of samsung he came to me he said samsung makes a product similar to ours very good product the phones [48:30] and other things and because they're in south korea they don't have the tariffs because we're in china we [48:35] have the tariffs i said you happen to be right you're not going to be able to compete i said look i'm going to [48:41] give you a one-year break but i want you to start building your factories in this country whether [48:46] it's texas or any other place anywhere in the country he said what does that mean i said you have [48:52] everything in china i want you to move it from china back to our country and he started doing that and [48:58] he built a factory a big one in texas he built another one and this was all a process it was all [49:04] happening but i did give him an exception and the reason was he said as soon as he said samsung i [49:11] said how is that product compared to yours he said it's a good product i said then you really can't [49:15] compete you can't have a 25 or 50 percent tariff and compete right yeah and i said i'm giving you an [49:21] exception and i did it for many companies but what happens if a small but the ultimate businesses come [49:26] and see you that was the question but we do it for small businesses too we do it for small businesses [49:31] i'll give you i didn't know but he came to me he was at a meeting and he built kitchen cabinets and [49:40] he was you know pretty big in the business that's all he did is build kitchen cabinets he said sir [49:46] china and south korea are building kitchen cabinets for one third of what i can make them i said what's [49:53] the quality they're not as good but they're good enough i can't complete i'm going out of business [49:59] i'm going out of business i put a 25 tariff still on on kitchen cabinets i saw the guy two days two [50:08] three days ago he said i'm the man that saw you about kitchen cabinets you saved my company when [50:16] you did the tariff and you saved thousands of jobs and my company is now doing very well [50:23] and he started to cry started to cry and this guy hasn't cried too much i will tell you [50:28] he said you saved my company there's nobody that could have done that maybe i can ask you then [50:32] about something else business people here in in this room business people capital markets they [50:38] all like the rule of law they like certainty the chinese who you mentioned other dictators right [50:43] they don't like it when things go wrong but they like it when things go wrong in america [50:47] if you look at the events of january the 6th 2021 and it showed to many people america's democracy [50:53] was unruly and violent only three weeks to go to the election will you commit now to respecting [50:59] and encouraging a peaceful transfer of power well you had a peaceful transfer of power you had a [51:04] peaceful transfer of power you had a peaceful come on president you had a piece you had a peaceful [51:10] you had a peaceful transfer of power compared with venezuela but it was by far the most the worst [51:15] transfer of power for a long time thank you i appreciate that because this is the you know what [51:22] they like to do this is what they like to do uh and you know it's very interesting question president [51:28] trump is would you respect yeah the decision when i found out about this interview i did a little check [51:34] he's a man that has not been a big trump fan over the years so i had a choice do i do this interview [51:39] or not i'm glad i did it but do i do this interview or do i disappoint a lot of people because [51:45] i know a lot of people in the audience but his view is very different than mine let me just tell you i'm [51:50] asking you a question we had a term peacefully and patriotically these were people if you think an [51:59] election is crooked and i do 100 if you think the day it comes when you can't protest you take a look [52:07] at the democrats they protested 2016 they're still protesting it nobody talks about them but if we [52:15] protest we want to have honest elections you think the last election was honest [52:19] all the times all the times it went to courts the court decided it didn't go they they went to court [52:26] and the courts all said you don't have standing nobody had standing and it's hard frankly after an [52:32] election for a judge but they all said you don't nobody ever had standing uh but the facts if you take [52:39] a look i'd show you hundreds of pages of facts people were angry people were there and i'll tell you [52:46] what uh they never show that the primary scene in washington was hundreds of thousands the largest [52:53] group of people i've ever spoken before and i've spoken before and it was love and peace and some [53:00] people went to the capitol and a lot of strange things happened there a lot of strange things with [53:06] people being waved into the capitol by police with people screaming go in with that never got into trouble [53:13] you know i don't want to mention names but you know who they are a lot of strange things happen [53:18] but you had a peaceful very peaceful i left i left the morning that i was supposed to leave [53:24] i went to florida and you had a very peaceful transfer this was not a uh and and i'll tell you [53:30] what those people that did go that which was a tiny fraction of the people that went to washington [53:37] i mean you're talking about a a very very small because hundreds of thousands of people and i [53:44] don't know what you had five six seven hundred people uh go down to the capitol but those people [53:50] that was not that was not one of those people had a gun nobody was killed except for ashley babbitt she [53:59] was killed she was killed she was shot in the head by a policeman that was had no what he did was [54:05] horrible so i think we should be allowed to disagree on that and obviously you see by the [54:11] reaction let's return let's return let's return to one other big subject you bring up repeatedly [54:17] immigration yeah i know it's a very emotive issue for you but just from the point of view of business [54:22] people here you look at the full effect of taking a lot of people out of the workforce removing a lot [54:28] of people the federal the the congressional budget office is banking on the fact that there'll be nine [54:34] trillion dollars added to the gdp of america over the next 10 years by immigrants you want to stop [54:41] that process for all the people who run businesses in the audience yeah i'm just focusing on the [54:46] economic thing are you prepared to say look it's fine to have a slightly smaller economy in exchange for [54:52] having the immigration control okay simple answer i want a lot of people to come into our country [54:58] but i want them to come in legally i don't want to have that means that means you will have that means [55:09] you will have to deport you know you are talking about deporting 11 million people that that is a lot [55:14] of people to take out it came out last week that 425 000 people are horrible criminals at the highest [55:23] level but it came out that 13 000 and 99 were let in during their administration they tried to say longer [55:32] wrong during the over the last three and a half years 13 000 plus people came in murderers they're in [55:40] jail for murder some were having the death penalty they were all released into our country 13 000 and 99 [55:48] people were released into our country we had drug dealers released we had street gangs released look at [55:56] what's happening in aurora but now i don't have to go with aurora anymore look at what happened yesterday last [56:02] night in time square where rough violence you know migrants from all over the place you know it's not [56:10] just south america we have people coming in from the congo large numbers from the congo and africa [56:17] they came in as of last night i was speaking to tom homan 180 countries people came in they came from [56:26] prisons and jails they came from mental institutions and insane assailments a step above they came from [56:34] the terrorists we had large numbers of terrorists come in when i was president we had the strongest [56:39] border in the history of a country i built hundreds of miles of wall and walls work by the way hundreds [56:45] of miles we had the best numbers we've ever had now we have the worst numbers and here's the problem [56:50] we have some of the worst criminals in the world coming in now venezuela their crime has gone down [56:58] at levels that nobody's ever seen before because they've taken their street gangs and their drug [57:04] dealers and and they've emptied their prisons not fully because they can't get enough buses [57:10] they've emptied their prisons they load up the buses and they drive them into the united states [57:16] and they're dropping their prisoners into our country their crime is down their numbers are are [57:22] crazy how low it's drops i heard 72 74 percent they've taken their they've taken their gangs [57:31] they've taken their criminals off the street they've taken their people out of mental institutions [57:37] which cost them a fortune and they've taken them and dropped them into the united states of america [57:43] those people have to be returned we can't live with thousands of murderers and not the issue the [57:49] issue the issue i the issue i asked you about was the idea that if you reduce immigration every [57:55] economist will tell you if you have fewer people there is a smaller economy i don't i like immigration [58:01] but it's they've got to come in legally okay okay well let's let's finish on two two i want to make sure [58:07] look i don't want i don't want to have people that have killed nine people and they're you know a sadistic [58:12] crazy nut job we have to have people that that can love our country that can you know that will obey [58:19] the laws everything else you have hundreds of thousands of criminals being dropped in and then [58:25] as well as one country look at what they have done though in aurora they've taken over apartment [58:31] complexes they've taken around they've gone into the real estate business see they're like us except [58:35] they've done it with mk whatever the hell they're called right i mean they have they have taken they [58:42] have weapons that are so sophisticated our military doesn't have them they've taken over parts of of [58:50] cities in colorado you have a place called beautiful aurora take a look at what's happened to [58:56] springfield ohio where they dropped 30 000 people into a community of 50 000 people and it's total [59:05] bedlam the hospitals can't be used anymore by the residents the schools can't be used by the children [59:12] that were there last year because other people that don't even speak the language the issue i asked you [59:16] about many companies here have a shortage of labor yeah that's that's good we're going to take care of that [59:21] we're going to get people in here rapidly and they're going to be people that want to be in here and [59:25] they're going to be people that can love our country and won't kill people because they have [59:31] because they don't like the way they look these these some of these killers are among the most evil [59:39] killers they will look at you down the beautiful woman there they'll look at you and they will [59:44] kill you these are seriously sick people and no i don't want them in our country and they are in our [59:51] country right now and they're in there because because kamala harris who's our borders are is an [59:57] incompetent president for the record as you know as you know the crime rate is is lower can i can i [1:00:02] finish with two questions the first you just said it you don't do old you own and run businesses would [1:00:09] you appoint a ceo who was 78 and you didn't give you a medical yeah i would depends on people like like [1:00:17] biden who's in bad shape i wouldn't appoint him he's 81 or 82 he's four years older but i'd appoint uh [1:00:25] i know some of the smartest people i know i know a man that made all of his money from the time he was [1:00:32] 80 to 90 and he was a failure all his life uh he was in the uh the drinks business the different [1:00:39] strangely you didn't bring this up when but you were running against joe biden no i never attacked him for [1:00:44] his age in fact i used to defend him on his age i think i attacked him for his lack of competence [1:00:49] i asked you i've asked you all these questions because i think it's important and i know you do [1:00:57] too i know so many people in their 80s that are among bernie marcus is 95 the founder of home depot you [1:01:05] have the conversation with him he's just as sharp as you mentally he's just as sharp as you have was [1:01:12] he's 95. i i could tell you that in their 90s i don't want to get into the 90s stuff but you know [1:01:18] what i know many people in their 80s i know guys in their 80s that won't leave the company like family [1:01:25] companies where they don't want the kids to take over because they're much more competent than their [1:01:29] kids i know them both right so no i would have no problem and you do have another factor you know we've [1:01:34] had some of some of our great on the supreme court you just said some of our great world leaders [1:01:39] are in the 80s and if you look throughout history some of our greatest world leaders were in their [1:01:45] 80s no that would bother me but you know i took two cognitive tests and i aced them both i think that [1:01:53] frankly people regardless should take if they're 50 or 40 or i think people should take cognitive tests [1:02:02] not because of the age but because of something else now here's the problem they say it's unconstitutional [1:02:08] okay but i would love to see cognitive tests i don't think she could pass a cognitive test [1:02:13] i mean i've watched i don't think she could pass a cognitive test president you've gone over many [1:02:19] issues on this i asked you many i asked you many questions about things one one thing i haven't asked [1:02:25] at all about is the state of the race yeah and i had a question for you on election night which state [1:02:31] would you look at first which state do you think this race is going to be decided by [1:02:35] so they say pennsylvania i would say most i think we're doing very well there [1:02:43] i think you look at michigan too and uh i'm doing very well there you know we don't have to look [1:02:50] necessarily the votes are starting to come in now so we you look at polls but you can also look at [1:02:56] the votes that are being cast right now people get a pretty good indication [1:03:00] and based as we discussed backstage you know based on the votes that are coming in so far we're doing [1:03:05] very well i mean we're way up in pennsylvania we're way up in michigan uh we're doing very well in [1:03:11] arizona i saw arizona in fact somebody said they're going to pull the plug in arizona they're going to [1:03:15] give it up because it looks like we're quite a quite a ways ahead i think we're doing well look this is [1:03:22] a party the republican party of common sense i forget about conservative liberal we're let's say [1:03:29] conservative but we're really a party of we need borders we need fair elections we don't want men [1:03:35] playing in women's sports we don't want transgender operations without parental consent you know it's [1:03:42] there's so many things but it's 99.9 is common sense it really is common sense and i like to say it i [1:03:51] don't know if anyone said it in the past but i i say we're really a party of common sense and we want to [1:03:58] have great people in our country i want to have a lot of people come in so that you have your choice and [1:04:03] so that they have just i want to you know i have a good heart i have a heart where i want people to [1:04:08] be taken care of but i don't want to take in people where they millions of people 21 million people at [1:04:15] least have come in in the last three and a half years unvetted unchecked we don't know anything about [1:04:22] them we don't how about this gavin newscom he's the governor of california newsom he signed newscom i call [1:04:30] him yeah but do you do you think oh he corrected he corrected me he corrected me that's the first [1:04:36] time i've been there there are ceos out here if they were said those sort of things about a rival ceo [1:04:41] they would be signed they'd be sacked do you think it's fine but they don't have to survive like me [1:04:44] they don't have to go through what i have to go through i there's never been a president that's been [1:04:49] treated like me so i have to fight my own way you made it you made it you made a very good you made a [1:04:56] a very good job he signed a bill in california two days ago that you don't even have the right [1:05:02] to ask a person for voter id and if you ask a person for voter id of course you have to show [1:05:10] voter id the only reason you wouldn't do because they want to cheat the bill says you cannot it's [1:05:16] against the law for you to ask a person may actually see your voter id when he votes what is [1:05:23] our country coming to well you've you've given us a tour de raison of where that country might be [1:05:28] going to thank you very much thank you very much appreciate it more than an hour-long conversation [1:05:42] between former president donald trump and bloomberg editor-in-chief john micklethwaite in partnership [1:05:47] with the economic club of chicago a conversation that reigns from tax and tariffs and technology to [1:05:53] immigration and the federal reserve welcome back to special coverage a special edition of balance of [1:05:58] power here on bloomberg tv and radio i'm kaylee lines alongside joe matthew we are about to break [1:06:04] down exactly what we heard there from donald trump in terms of his economic policy including the pushback [1:06:10] he gave on what a number of economists or majority of economists would suggest are potential inflationary [1:06:16] and detrimental impacts of the policy pushing back on the idea joe that tax cuts will add to the [1:06:22] deficit that tariffs will lead to higher costs for the american people even that it could influence [1:06:27] ultimately the dominance of the dollar as the world's reserve currency we should point out a [1:06:31] lot of those things were fact check in real time by john micklethwaite yeah we have a lot to unpack [1:06:36] here and that was quite an exchange sometimes interviews take different forms with donald trump [1:06:41] that was a real back and forth and i think we all learn a lot by listening to it uh john started by [1:06:47] citing his very first question research from the committee for a responsible federal budget that if [1:06:51] you walk out with us here on a daily basis on balance of power you're pretty familiar with [1:06:56] 7.8 to 15 i believe trillion dollars was the estimate that unless there's something we're not [1:07:02] understanding about how to pay for uh the tax cuts and exemptions that donald trump has put forth that [1:07:06] is what it would add to the deficit um donald trump wasn't having any of that kaylee and that's nothing new [1:07:13] in this case yeah continually pushing back on again what the majority of economists would agree would be the [1:07:18] economic impact of his policies so we want to turn now to an economist bloomberg economics is anna wong [1:07:25] who leads our u.s economic coverage is here with us in our washington dc studio so anna you of course [1:07:30] have done analysis on what the policies of not just donald trump but kamala harris could mean for the [1:07:35] u.s economy when he says things like we're all about growth that companies will only be protected [1:07:41] by stronger tariffs is that really how it's going to translate economically if these things become reality [1:07:47] yeah so i i think he simplified his own policy impact a little bit so if we looked at his tax [1:07:53] policies which is all about tax cuts uh lowering uh corporate tax cuts of course those would be [1:07:59] all economic models would say generally in the short term it would boost growth that would be where the [1:08:05] growth enhancing would would come from but there's a cost to be paid for that um and which is that over [1:08:12] the long term with higher fiscal debt to gdp ratio that would raise interest rates and uh in 10 years [1:08:18] those benefits which you see in the first two or three years would dissipate um also in terms of [1:08:25] tariff policy he mentioned a lot about how tariffs would bring back uh jobs to the country and that's [1:08:31] per growth so i think it's important to know that it's true economists were wrong in his first [1:08:38] administration that um all the inflationary impact most economists estimated were overblown but you [1:08:45] know um the economy adjusts to tariff in two ways either through higher prices if firms can pass [1:08:52] through those prices or through lower investment and lower growth and in his first administration [1:08:58] what happened was it didn't translate into higher prices however it did translate into lower growth [1:09:04] due to trade policy uncertainty we've had conversations on this program in fact quite recently [1:09:08] today joel lavornia was on before uh that interview scott besant was on a couple of days ago they [1:09:13] returned to the theme of looking at this as a whole that each proposal taken in a vacuum is not going [1:09:20] to add up to what the former president is seeing here when you actually do that when you combine the [1:09:25] tariffs with the tax proposals and drill baby drill his idea of lowering energy costs to lower inflation [1:09:34] across the board do you see it any differently yeah i think that um if you take it holistically and [1:09:39] joe lavornia is completely right you have growth enhancing trade i mean tax policy in the short term [1:09:46] but growth reducing trade policy in the short term i think in the first two or three years that will [1:09:52] about wash out the effect will be slightly negative over 10 years period anna thank you so much for [1:10:00] being with us bloomberg economics anna wong keeping us honest on some of the issues that we talked about [1:10:04] here we want to turn from the economy to politics of course it's pretty hard to remove the two so [1:10:08] we'll do both with our signature panel rick davis partner at stonecourt capital alongside genie shanzano [1:10:14] political science professor at iona university senior democracy fellow at the center for the study of [1:10:19] the presidency and congress rick you said this was going to be a spirited conversation that this might [1:10:24] be the most challenging interview that donald trump would have for the rest of the cycle i think you [1:10:29] might be right yeah and i think one of the more sober and serious conversations i thought uh john [1:10:34] mickelswaite did a fantastic job of keeping focus on the issues that he was asking about trying to do [1:10:40] the follow-up that he was requiring and and look i mean you know you got to give trump credit he hung in [1:10:46] there he told lots of stories that exemplified you know his policy points and i think as a communicator [1:10:53] we underestimate donald trump's ability to sort of package his arguments in these kinds of [1:10:59] storytelling that are easy for people to digest so his audience wasn't the chicago economic club sitting [1:11:06] in the room and dining on rubber chicken his audience were you know uh blue collar workers in [1:11:12] michigan and pennsylvania and wisconsin who when he hear they hear these stories they can actually [1:11:19] understand the economic points that he's making but if part of his audience here jeannie was in [1:11:23] michigan he again attacked detroit as we saw him do in detroit just a few days ago he's going to be [1:11:29] back there later on this week he called it horrible talking about how it hasn't recovered of [1:11:34] course it did declare bankruptcy back in 2013 but it has seen a recovery since then in fact the city [1:11:39] just announced earlier this year it grew in population between 2022 and 2023 for the first time since [1:11:45] 1957. how does that play in a state which ultimately could have a hand in deciding this election yeah [1:11:52] this is something we've heard trump do over and over again um attack cities um from milwaukee and detroit [1:11:59] and of course new york city um and of course factually there's no basis for it we know violent crime [1:12:05] for instance in detroit is down to levels we haven't seen since 1996. and i think you know as i watched this [1:12:11] entire interview which i agree was so important donald trump missed an opportunity here in my mind [1:12:19] he ended up talking about what defending january 6 talking about venezuela and maduro this strongman [1:12:27] this autocrat this dictator as well what a great job he has done cutting down on violence with the use of [1:12:32] a police state he is making certainly things that republican leaders at the state and local level have [1:12:39] pushed back against as it refers to aurora as it refers to springfield um the list goes on and on [1:12:45] and john mickelswaite was trying to have a sober serious conversation on his economic policies and i [1:12:52] can bet that is not where donald trump's campaign wanted him to go to sit there and say those kinds of [1:12:59] things the attacks were all over the place they were on everybody from the press to uh you know to [1:13:06] people who are running these cities and states to immigrants there was no fact checking that he was [1:13:12] going to abide by and it was off the rails in true donald trump style and that is a problem for donald [1:13:19] trump because i know he wants to double down in his base rick is right but he's got to reach sober [1:13:25] minded people in the middle who like his policies first term but are very concerned about this rhetoric [1:13:31] and i don't think he did himself any favors on that front and of course top of the list there is [1:13:36] tariffs he had absolutely no answer to the very serious economic questions about raising tariffs [1:13:42] he said sometimes 200 500 percent all right genie shanzano and rick davis with their clutch analysis [1:13:50] coming out of the interview they're going to be sticking with us for the rest of the hour we thank [1:13:53] you both our signature panel here on an important day as we go into overtime here on our special coverage [1:13:58] live from washington following bloomberg's interview with donald trump the former president talked [1:14:03] about tariffs quite a bit today in policies he'd like to pursue if elected in the conversation we [1:14:08] just brought to you in partnership with the economic club of chicago let's listen to me the [1:14:14] most beautiful word in the dictionary is tariff and it's my favorite word it needs a public relations [1:14:22] firm joining us now for more here on bloomberg tv and radio anna ashton founder of ashton analytics [1:14:30] former china analyst for the u.s department of defense and it's great to see you thanks for [1:14:35] joining us here following this conversation donald trump pushed back pretty hard on the issue of [1:14:40] tariffs he called tariffs his favorite word the most beautiful word in the dictionary did he change the [1:14:48] way you look at this in his conversation today with john micklefwaite well no and thank you for having [1:14:54] me on uh it was interesting to listen to his remarks i think we can all be pretty assured of where [1:15:02] he's he wants to go with tariff policy that he wants to raise the tariffs and and not just on [1:15:07] china he spent a lot of time talking about mexico for example and he said that you know our allies [1:15:13] have been more problematic than our enemies so the eu japan well anna as you mentioned mexico [1:15:20] according to factcheck.org there is only one small chinese car manufacturing plant in mexico [1:15:26] right now but something else we heard from donald trump was the suggestion if you make the tariffs [1:15:30] high enough and to quote him so high so horrible so obnoxious they'll come right away meaning they [1:15:36] will come and and make things in the u.s instead what is the realistic chance that manufacturers in [1:15:43] china are going to be able to suddenly up and move all that business to the united states and have supply [1:15:49] come out of there how does that actually translate in reality well you know i think it's going to be [1:15:55] really interesting to see if this is you know a sign of of trump kind of evolving his perspective on china [1:16:02] and what he wants from the relationship because he certainly wasn't really gung-ho about inviting [1:16:08] chinese investment into the united states in his first term um in a second term would he be it sort [1:16:16] of sounds like it it sort of sounds like he sees tariffs as a way to bring foreign investment into the [1:16:21] united states to create jobs and i think a lot of people can get on board with that from an economic [1:16:26] standpoint however there are many many people in washington in both parties who are not [1:16:31] particularly enthusiastic about chinese investment in the united states and not just [1:16:35] in washington there are governors all over the country who also are not keen on that so i'm not [1:16:40] sure that it's it's within trump's power to change hearts and minds domestically i want to ask you [1:16:48] about what the former president said about taiwan anna he was asked whether he would send american [1:16:52] troops to defend taiwan in the event of an invasion or a blockade by china he didn't really answer that [1:16:59] directly he said quote i have a very good relationship with president xi is his relationship good enough to [1:17:05] avoid that scenario if you were re-elected i think it's less about whether or not his relationship with [1:17:11] with president xi is good enough and more about the fact that you know he is [1:17:15] a confirmed he does not want to have american forces fighting foreign wars and he's indicated in [1:17:25] other interviews that he's not particularly interested in sending troops to taiwan unless taiwan [1:17:32] is going to pay more for u.s defense he wants more of a quib pro quo relationship than he believes we [1:17:38] have right now but again this is where trump diverges from the majority of minds that are shaping policy [1:17:46] in dc uh both republican and democrat i i don't think that his own party is particularly aligned [1:17:53] behind that idea well and perhaps the divergence that matters most at least with three weeks to go [1:17:59] until election day anna is how his policy diverges from the policy that kamala harris has suggested [1:18:05] she pursue keeping in mind she has been attached to this administration that has left intact and in [1:18:10] many ways actually in many instances expanded the tariffs put into place under the first trump [1:18:14] administration harris who has also talked about making sure the us is leading the technology war [1:18:19] against china how realistically are we going to see differences in approach here and is it just a [1:18:25] matter of scale if you will maybe not tariffs of the kind donald trump is talking about but tariffs all [1:18:31] the same i certainly think we're going to see tariffs all the same uh but you know the biden administration [1:18:38] has with its increase of select tariffs in the last month um make clear that that they're interested in [1:18:45] taking a more targeted approach and you know that is that is overall the impression i'm getting from [1:18:52] harris's talking points um so i think that you know yes we will see continued tariffs we will see a [1:18:58] continued emphasis on industrial policy as part of the effort to make the united states more competitive [1:19:04] with china and ensure u.s competitiveness going forward but i don't think that a harris administration [1:19:11] would be interested in the kind of across the board tariffs on on everything from china and and things [1:19:16] from everywhere else that trump seems to be enthusiastic about great to have you with us today anna thank [1:19:23] you anna ashton is founder of ashton analytics former china analyst for the u.s department of defense just [1:19:28] the voice we needed today we thank you again and joining us now is democratic congressman sean [1:19:33] caston of illinois he serves on the house financial services committee and brings the voice of a [1:19:39] democrat to the table here congressman it's good to see you welcome back to bloomberg tv and radio what [1:19:45] you just heard today from donald trump is the most complete explanation and most complete presentation [1:19:51] we have heard of his economic proposals making the trump tax cuts permanent a series of exemptions on [1:19:58] things like tips over time social security and others that we might not even have time to list [1:20:03] here today and an overall approach to inflation that starts with energy drill baby drill he says will [1:20:10] bring down prices across the board are you on board well look it's hard to follow a lot of that because [1:20:18] so much of his representations of the economy were just flat wrong we've seen surges in foreign direct [1:20:24] investment over the last four years we've seen almost a doubling in manufacturing investment in [1:20:28] the united states over the last four years yes there's been inflation but slower than all the [1:20:31] other countries in the oecd we've had record-setting job creation this is an economy to celebrate [1:20:37] and he seemed to be focused on bad mouthing it but i want to just talk about the energy piece [1:20:41] for a moment in april of 2020 under donald trump the price of oil collapsed because of covid trump responded by [1:20:50] calling the saudis and threatening to pull all military aid out of saudi arabia unless they curtailed [1:20:57] production to raise the price of oil to protect u.s oil producers he has always put the interest of [1:21:03] producers over the interest of consumers and you know when you're talking about drill baby drill we [1:21:09] are we are using a lot less coal than we used to in the united states we're using a lot we're using [1:21:14] we've had basically no growth in oil that's because we've invested in efficiency we've invested in [1:21:18] renewables the person with a solar panel on the roof is not paying for electricity anymore [1:21:23] what trump is pushing for is not lowering costs for consumers on energy but raising prices to energy [1:21:29] producers he's done that consistently and let's not pretend it's something else well congressman is [1:21:35] we consider this is a plan he says ultimately will lead to lower inflation let's talk about inflation [1:21:41] and who all has a role in combating that because obviously the federal reserve is part of that game too [1:21:47] donald trump was actually asked about the fed and the influence the president should have on it in [1:21:52] this conversation let's remind ourselves of what he said i think that if you're a very good president [1:21:59] with good sense you should be able to at least talk to him i don't say make the decision at all [1:22:05] congressman what's your response to that um i guess you have to really love the economy of the 1890s to [1:22:14] want a non-independent fed and a massive tariff policy uh jay powell you know i don't agree with jay [1:22:20] powell on everything but jay powell has done a masterful job as he should of staying above [1:22:26] politics you know the idea of an independent fed is they as your viewers know well right you sometimes [1:22:32] it's not politically wise to do the right thing for the economy um interfering with that is a really [1:22:39] really dangerous path to go down and we've been there in our past right you know there was a point [1:22:43] when we didn't have an independent fed um those weren't good times for the u.s economy well with that [1:22:51] said where is the economy going to be here in your view when the next president takes office congressman [1:22:57] this is something that we ask a lot of lawmakers and economists here knowing that we're seeing [1:23:01] or at least feeling some concerns uh tied to a slowdown here obviously interest rate cuts are [1:23:07] part of the picture which some could suggest uh benefit the incumbent in this case i guess we could [1:23:12] call that uh incumbent kamala harris but what's your view about where we're going to be in january when [1:23:18] you come back to washington um you know i suppose prognostication is a fool's game but i think you [1:23:24] know some of the metrics that we've been watching closely in the economy we've seen this surge of [1:23:29] investment for the last four years really for the first time in decades we've consistently seen [1:23:36] job creation outposting worker creation our workforce has not been growing as fast as the jobs have [1:23:44] that was creating some upward pressure on inflation was certainly contributing to it it's a good [1:23:49] problem to have right because there were so much investments going on in the united states we have [1:23:54] seen some of that pressure easing frankly thanks to inflation and one of the concerns that i have [1:23:59] personally is that it has become so bipartisan to demonize immigration and yeah i think we shouldn't [1:24:06] lose sight of the fact that immigration is substantially what's allowing our economy to create jobs so [1:24:11] quickly um and not have upward pressure on inflation inflation's come down um i do get concerned about [1:24:18] that xenophobia and where that might push us but but on balance i feel pretty good about where the [1:24:23] economy is right now we're still staying you know four or four point two percent unemployment which is [1:24:27] pretty good the the job revisions such as they are moving in the right direction and you know let's [1:24:32] keep a steady hand on the tiller congressman we just have a minute left here but it was brought up in [1:24:38] this interview and again in our conversations afterward the the deficit impact potentially [1:24:43] of donald trump's plans in the median estimate from the committee for responsible federal budget [1:24:47] it's seven and a half trillion dollars harris's is lower yes three and a half trillion dollars is their [1:24:53] uh base case but that still does add to the united states's burden how do you defend some of those [1:24:58] policy ideas knowing the fiscal impact they could have yeah look i think it's a real concern for [1:25:04] all of us that these that the deficits keep growing up um any serious conversation about the deficits [1:25:10] you know has to talk about you know we have social security medicare and the military that's that's [1:25:16] the overwhelming majority of what's there and if we decide politically we don't want to touch those [1:25:21] three then we have to talk about the revenue side of the equation what is the single most important [1:25:26] thing we can do that still gives people the dignity they deserve in retirement and kill still keeps the [1:25:31] united states as the leader of the free world is to fully fund the irs the head of the trump irs told [1:25:37] us that the the under collection of taxes taxes that are due but not collected reaches almost a [1:25:43] trillion dollars a year you can go a long way towards cleaning that up if we get there trump is not wild [1:25:49] about that he's a guy who's obviously been found guilty of tax fraud but we have to we have to fund the [1:25:55] police right we have to fund the irs's ability to go out and make sure that we collect and if we do that [1:26:01] we create a ton more headroom and i think then we can have a conversation around well if we tweak [1:26:06] this tax this way or this tax this way but it's a purely academic conversation if we're not actually [1:26:10] collecting the taxes anyway and remember these things are over 10 years when the cbo does these [1:26:14] forecasts a trillion dollars a year is 10 trillion dollars over a 10-year forecast let's get it done [1:26:21] all right congressman appreciate your time this afternoon that is democratic congressman sean caston of [1:26:26] illinois member of the house financial services committee we appreciate it we're continuing to [1:26:31] analyze trump's comments made just moments ago during an interview with bloomberg editor-in-chief [1:26:35] john micklethwaite we should note as john noted kamala harris has been invited to participate in a [1:26:41] similar conversation back with us now for final thoughts is our signature political panel rick [1:26:45] davis of stonecourt capital and jeannie shanzano of the center for the study of the presidency and congress [1:26:52] i don't know how many more interviews opportunities like this there will be in the next three weeks rick [1:26:58] because that's all the time that is left how many more conversations do you expect donald trump to [1:27:02] take part of through traditional media means like this when he's been going on podcasts as has kamala [1:27:07] harris other means of reaching out to voters yeah i think they've both been in the bubble right so [1:27:12] they'll do interviews with friendly outlets and donald trump has been more aggressive uh in spending time [1:27:19] on his friendly outlets than kamala harris has but um as we talked earlier in the show kamala harris has a [1:27:25] very big interview tomorrow with brett bear on fox taking herself out of the bubble putting herself [1:27:30] in an environment frankly probably the equivalent of what we just saw today uh at the chicago economic [1:27:37] club and so i don't think you're going to see much more of that i i would be surprised if donald trump [1:27:42] wants to re-up on another deal like he did today uh and uh and at the same time without these [1:27:48] presidential debates we don't really have any way of scoring where we think the president presidential [1:27:55] candidates are right now and this is the time when a lot of american voters are making up their minds [1:28:02] in the last instance in other words i'm ready to vote now who's it going to be and there are still [1:28:07] i know it's hard to believe after the long slog we've been through there are still voters trying [1:28:12] to figure out who they want and i think these kind of events help dictate that remembering of course and [1:28:17] you remind us of this a lot rick uh some people are already voting and have already voted with early [1:28:23] voting and absentee ballots in the mix here jeannie what do you think about what rick just said does [1:28:28] kamala harris need to respond to what donald trump said today um i think she should you know i think [1:28:35] these are exactly the kind of forums i agree with rick in which we need to hear from these candidates and [1:28:40] both of them and i give donald trump a lot of credit for sitting down with a one-on-one interview [1:28:46] and taking some tough questions and i think people should go back and listen carefully to what he said i mean [1:28:53] he talked about everything from not wanting to appoint judges who were too old and when john [1:28:58] asked him well you're 78 he said no no no no no that was justices right he talked at the end about [1:29:04] republicans himself being a party of common sense and yet common sense questions like if you in if you [1:29:12] decrease taxes and you don't cut spending how do you pay for that he sort of pooh-poohed a lot of that [1:29:19] to use a very formal word so you know i think people should go and listen to what he had to say [1:29:25] um you know he talked about how he weaves and he certainly weaved a lot today and the one that really [1:29:32] sticks with me is the one about the fed for anybody who wants donald trump to have some voice in the fed [1:29:39] then think about would you want that if it was a democrat because historically that is very problematic [1:29:46] for democratic economies that's genie shanzano alongside rick davis our signature panel today [1:29:52] thanks both of you for being with us as part of our special coverage here we're going to have a lot [1:29:57] more on this a little bit later on today the late edition of balance of power that starts at 5 p.m [1:30:02] eastern time with much more to unpack kaylee lines will get back together in a couple of hours [1:30:07] with a lot more here on bloomberg tv and radio