Diplomacy not dead as as neither side wants to go back to war: Pakistan ex-UN ambassador

[0:00] Maliha Lodi is a diplomat and political scientist who previously served as Pakistan's ambassador to the U.S. [0:05] And she joins us now live from Islamabad. [0:08] Ambassador Lodi, thanks for being with us here on Al Jazeera. [0:10] Let me ask you first, Donald Trump says that this ceasefire extension came following a request from Field Marshal Asa Muneer and Prime Minister Shabash Sharif. [0:20] Could you walk us through the kind of intensive 11th hour diplomacy that they must have been involved in that led to this outcome? [0:27] Well, it was clear that the ceasefire expiry was looming. [0:35] The two sides had not given a go ahead for their delegations to arrive here and for the talks to go ahead. [0:44] So obviously that required some intervention, an intervention you did get, [0:50] because then Pakistan's top military and civilian leadership conveyed to Washington the need for Washington to extend the ceasefire [0:59] so that a window could be found and space could be created for the diplomatic path to be pursued. [1:06] So I think, you know, obviously there were messages back and forth. [1:10] Pakistan also conveyed to the White House the Iranian demand that the U.S. blockage should be lifted. [1:18] As you know, President Trump did not concede that demand. [1:21] And I think the back and forth then resulted in the ceasefire that was announced. [1:26] And I think that created expectations and certainly some hope in Pakistan amongst our officials [1:33] that perhaps the talks can and will go ahead at some point. [1:38] But clearly, I think the mixed messages from both sides, [1:42] plus Iran insisting that unless the blockage is lifted, they are unable to join the talks. [1:49] So, you know, here we have a situation where both sides want an off-ramp. [1:55] I think neither side would want to go back to war. [1:58] But at the same time, I think neither side wants to give the other any kind of a win [2:02] before the talks even get going. [2:04] Ambassador Lodi, we know that building trust is an essential component to trying to get these talks to continue. [2:11] That has been one of the great difficulties that Pakistan is facing in all this. [2:15] I want to ask you, from your perspective, what needs to happen in order for some type of gesture [2:21] to be made by either one side or both sides in order to get these negotiations going again? [2:28] You say that it seems that both sides want an off-ramp, but that neither wants to be the first one to move. [2:33] How do we go forward with this? [2:37] Well, I think, again, both sides will need to show some flexibility. [2:40] And I think putting an end to the mixed messages coming out from both capitals, [2:45] but particularly the way President Trump seems to say different things at different times [2:50] and sometimes in the same breath, clearly that does not build trust [2:55] and it does not build the kind of positive atmosphere that you need for the talks. [2:59] So, for now, Pakistan awaits a word from Tehran and, of course, some kind of gesture from the White House. [3:10] So, without that, I think it will be hard to see how talks can take place in the near term. [3:15] But I have to say that hopes are not exactly fading. [3:19] It's not as if diplomacy is dead. [3:21] It isn't. [3:22] But it's getting harder to get it going. [3:25] Ambassador Lodi, let me ask you about one particular component to all of this. [3:28] The U.S. has stated that the ceasefire remains until an Iranian proposal is submitted. [3:34] From your vantage point, do you think there's any kind of internal timeline [3:38] that's now in place for Tehran's response, some kind of a deadline? [3:42] And will the U.S. interpret any delayed response perhaps as a violation of this extended truce? [3:49] I ask this because you mentioned that you thought that perhaps the mixed messaging coming from the U.S. [3:53] has been really detrimental in all of this. [3:55] Well, I think the main issue is still the blockade and some kind of U.S. gesture to show that they're at least easing the blockade [4:07] because that seems to have become an Iranian precondition. [4:11] Now, what it will take for the Iranians to back down from that very public position that they've taken is very, very hard to say right now. [4:21] But I can tell you that Pakistan and its officials are not giving up their effort. [4:26] They're continuing to work 24-7. [4:29] They want to see the two sides step back from the brink. [4:33] They want to see the two sides dispatch their delegations. [4:36] And a lot of the other issues, you know, some of the issues that your correspondent in Tehran was mentioning, [4:41] of course, these are sticking points and are making the situation much more difficult. [4:46] But they have to be part of the negotiating process. [4:49] I mean, you can't negotiate before the negotiations. [4:52] And I think that's the point Pakistan is emphasizing, that come back to the negotiating table and, you know, [4:58] put whatever issue you want in that mix and then try to see if you can resolve these differences. [5:03] Ambassador Lodi, U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance's trip to Pakistan is currently on hold. [5:08] Do you think that this extension is a genuine window for diplomacy or could this perhaps be a tactical pause for U.S. forces to consolidate that naval blockade? [5:20] Well, it's hard to determine that. [5:24] I mean, the Iranians seem to think that it's a ploy. [5:28] It's just a ploy to buy time. [5:30] But, you know, any extension of a ceasefire does provide space, diplomatic space. [5:35] So it's really a question of what you want to do. [5:37] But clearly, I think for the Iranians, it's so hard for them to sort of have any faith in what President Trump says because he says one thing but does another. [5:49] So, you know, these are the difficulties we're all up against. [5:52] But as I said, Pakistan will continue to make efforts to see how we can prevent the situation spinning out of control [5:59] and then unintended escalation taking place by both sides, which can lead to a much more dangerous situation. [6:07] Malia Lodi is a diplomat and political scientist who previously served as Pakistan's ambassador to the U.S. [6:13] She joined us there live from Islamabad. [6:14] Ambassador Lodi, thank you so much for being with us here on Al Jazeera. [6:17] Great to get your perspective. [6:18] Thank you.