Debate: What explains the generational divide over Trump’s Iran war?

[0:00] This war is the most just war since World War II. [0:02] You are telling young people they shouldn't be asking questions. [0:05] I think, honestly, Adam, that's immensely ungrateful [0:07] to American service personnel and the people who keep us safe every day. [0:10] I do not need nuclear weapons to control the Straits of Hormuz. [0:14] The Straits of Hormuz are right there. [0:15] You can't change geography. [0:17] They need small speedboats. [0:19] I'm not in the classified briefings in either of you, [0:21] so just be quiet for a minute and let me finish. [0:23] At the start of the war, Americans were pretty evenly divided [0:25] in their support for the conflict. [0:27] But now, 61% say that the campaign in Iran was a mistake, [0:31] and there is a clear generational gap, too. [0:34] While older Americans are split, 61% under the age of 35 oppose the war, [0:39] and 80% of those under 30 say there were no sufficient reasons [0:44] to attack Iran in the first place. [0:46] This generational divide, I think, when it comes to war [0:49] has always been a thing in America, [0:52] but it seems particularly acute right now, Adam. [0:55] Yeah, for my entire life, the United States has been at war [0:58] with some country in the Middle East, [1:00] and young people have constantly been told [1:02] that this will make us safer and make us better off. [1:04] When we look around at the world today, [1:05] we are less safe and we are worse off. [1:08] Millennials grew up watching all these headlines [1:10] saying that Iraq had been, you know, defeated, [1:13] that we had taken out Saddam Hussein [1:15] and we had killed all the bad guys. [1:17] Well, that turned into a grinding counterinsurgency [1:19] that cost us a trillion, a trillion dollars, [1:21] and it was a catastrophe. [1:22] The same thing happened with Afghanistan, [1:25] and now Gen Zers are going through the same thing with Iran. [1:28] We are watching the same people [1:29] who defended these first two failed wars [1:31] go on television and defend another failed war. [1:35] This war is failing. [1:36] We have not gotten any political concessions, [1:38] and I'm sorry, I'm not buying this trust the process line. [1:41] I don't trust the same people who got us into the prior wars, [1:44] amassed trillions of dollars in debts, [1:46] and are not putting America first on the global stage. [1:49] So putting aside, perhaps just for a moment, [1:53] even the politics of this current moment, [1:56] I mean, is it fair for young people [1:58] to have that level of distrust of the people, [2:02] to Adam's point, who maybe defended the last war [2:05] and were wrong and are defending this war too? [2:07] Yeah, I don't think so. [2:08] I think, honestly, Adam, that's immensely ungrateful [2:10] to American service personnel [2:12] and the people who keep us safe every day. [2:13] After 9-11, it was by no means guaranteed [2:15] that there would be no mass casualty terrorist attack [2:17] on American soil in the immediate aftermath of that attack, [2:20] especially since we had events in Madrid, [2:22] in London, et cetera. [2:23] And after the attack on Iraq [2:25] and the elimination of Saddam Hussein's regime, [2:27] we took a terrorist-supporting enterprise off the map. [2:30] We don't talk about Iraq anymore [2:32] as a threat to a national security because it isn't. [2:34] And those who would pretend [2:35] as though Iran is not a national security threat [2:38] and are, frankly, dismissive of the extent [2:41] to which American service personnel get up every day [2:43] to stop these people from executing the attacks [2:46] on American and their allies [2:47] that they plan every single day. [2:49] This is a thorn in our side. [2:50] It absorbs a lot of American taxpayer dollars [2:52] to say nothing of the energy of our service personnel. [2:54] And I just think it's just ungrateful [2:56] to say that the service personnel [2:58] are not keeping you safe when they are. [3:00] No, I feel less safe due to the actions of our leaders. [3:03] I am incredibly grateful for our servicemen. [3:05] Your feelings don't make an effect. [3:06] Your feelings, the way you feel, doesn't make an effect. [3:08] Hold up, hold up, hold up. [3:08] You are doing... [3:09] Let me finish. [3:10] He was talking to me. [3:11] He was talking to me. [3:12] Hold on a second, Hal. [3:12] I'll let you respond. [3:13] The feeling thing is a problem. [3:15] You are doing the exact same thing [3:16] that I just laid out in the opening. [3:18] You are telling young people [3:19] they shouldn't be asking questions. [3:20] They shouldn't be questioning the people in power [3:22] because it's ungrateful. [3:23] I love you to ask the questions [3:23] about the nature of the Iranian threat. [3:24] Okay, then what was ungrateful about what I said? [3:25] I said that the leaders are making us less safe, [3:27] and I can prove that. [3:28] Right now, Iran has control over the Strait of Hormuz, [3:31] and that is a weapon they didn't have control of [3:32] two months ago. [3:33] Of course they did. [3:34] They shut down the Strait of Hormuz in the 80s, [3:36] and they opened it up in the 80s. [3:37] By the way, Iran... [3:38] By the way, Iran with a nuclear weapon... [3:41] You think gas prices are high right now? [3:43] Iran with a nuclear weapon, [3:44] we'd have unlimitedly high gas prices. [3:46] They would take control of the Strait of Hormuz, [3:48] and they would blackmail the world. [3:50] And how much farther away are they [3:51] from having a nuclear weapon? [3:52] Where is the enriched uranium right now? [3:53] They're non-existent now. [3:54] How? Where is the enriched uranium right now? [3:55] We're going to get the enriched uranium. [3:56] Where is it? I want you to answer. [3:57] It's buried right now, but... [3:58] No, where is it buried? [3:59] You're asking me, I'm not in the classified briefings [4:01] and neither are you, so just be quiet for a minute [4:02] and let me finish. [4:03] Where is it buried? We know it's buried in Iran. [4:04] Let me finish. [4:04] Okay, Adam, let me finish. [4:05] We are more safe than we were [4:07] before we took out Iran's nuclear capabilities. [4:11] Absolutely more safe. [4:12] The Strait of Hormuz is going to be open, [4:14] and Iran's not going to control it. [4:15] That is absolutely going to happen. [4:17] It doesn't matter if it's two weeks or two months. [4:19] It does actually matter, because economists are saying [4:20] if it's closed for a few more months [4:22] then we're going to go into a recession, [4:23] so it does matter. [4:23] It absolutely does matter. [4:24] No one's predicting that, [4:25] because the markets that are all-time high... [4:26] No one's predicting that? [4:27] The markets that are at an all-time high, [4:28] the markets aren't predicting it. [4:29] With the oil markets? [4:30] The inflation rate has stayed where it is. [4:33] And by the way, unemployment has stayed low, [4:36] so when you're talking about everyone's predicting... [4:38] Can you look the average American in the eye? [4:39] Just to be clear, inflation has ticked up. [4:42] It has not stayed the same. [4:44] But Bobby, you were around for the politics [4:47] and the conflict of the last two Middle East wars. [4:52] I mean, what do you make of this generational debate [4:55] about whether it's wise to be going into another conflict in this region? [5:00] Well, I can't fault the logic that when you've seen this happen [5:03] through your lifetime and you're still living with the consequences of it [5:07] in one fashion or the other, [5:09] you're bound to be reluctant to get into the war. [5:11] Nobody's disputing for the fact that for a moment [5:14] that the Iranians are bad... [5:16] the Iranian regime are bad guys. [5:18] But when you hear the president and our leadership [5:22] constantly changing the explanation they're giving for why we're at war, [5:27] constantly changing the timetable of how long this is going to last, [5:31] and then forgetting how long it has been going on, [5:35] then you're right to push back and say, [5:38] kindly give us a clearer explanation for why we're there, [5:40] how long we're going to be there for. [5:42] It's not enough to sit at this table and say, [5:45] it'll be over and then the Straits of Hormuz will be open. [5:49] We've got no indication of that being the case. [5:53] Very clearly, the administration has determined, [5:56] because they've basically ended the kinetic conflict of it all, [6:01] they've determined that the only way to actually get the things that we want, [6:05] which is Iran abandoning its nuclear ambitions, [6:08] moving away from funding terrorism, [6:11] is to get to the negotiating table, [6:13] which is the same truth that existed a year ago [6:17] after they did the first set of strikes. [6:19] So, I mean, I think that's part of the problem, [6:21] is that war has not necessarily gotten us the outcome [6:25] that they say that we are trying to get here. [6:27] No, and that's because the rationale for the war has shifted multiple times. [6:32] No one here has ever said we want a nuclear-armed Iran. [6:37] That is a red herring at this point. [6:39] This is the only talking point that the pro-Trump folks have, [6:43] because they've gotten themselves into a situation that they were unprepared for. [6:47] And what's incredibly ungrateful, you know who's incredibly ungrateful? [6:51] Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth for the men and women who are serving in this war, [6:56] who are on deployments that are extra long, [6:58] who are not getting their ships resupplied, [7:01] who don't understand what they're doing over there, [7:04] who are being taken for granted. [7:06] Our military is the greatest in the world, [7:08] and the men and women who serve are the greatest in the world, [7:11] and they are being taken for granted as props [7:13] in a political effort by Donald Trump [7:16] to make himself feel better [7:17] until he can distract from everything else that's going on domestically. [7:20] And now he's gotten himself into a situation [7:22] where he can't even explain cogently why we're there, [7:26] what's going on, [7:26] and why the American people should have to pay the price for it. [7:29] So that's what's going on here. [7:30] I mean, when I was a Republican for many years, [7:34] we absolutely looked at Iran as the threat that it is [7:37] and absolutely were trying to do things [7:39] to make sure that they did not continue [7:40] to be the world sponsor of terror. [7:42] But this isn't it. [7:43] This is not it. [7:44] So, Noah, you talked about Adam, [7:47] you accused Adam of being ungrateful. [7:49] I just want you to look at these charts. [7:50] Look at what happened to public opinion [7:52] when it came to the war in Afghanistan. [7:55] Was it a mistake for the U.S. [7:56] to send military forces to Afghanistan? [7:58] The war started out as incredibly popular [8:01] and then it became much less popular. [8:06] So about half of Americans said that it was a mistake [8:09] and about half said that it was not. [8:11] The same is true of Iraq. [8:15] Incredibly popular, right decision, 72% back at the beginning of it. [8:19] And by the end of the conflict in 2014, it was down to 38%. [8:24] I mean, are all of these Americans ungrateful? [8:27] I mean, I imagine many of them have, [8:30] they ended up tasting the consequences of the war, [8:34] including the impacts on their lives, [8:36] people that they knew, [8:37] people who may not have even lost their lives in theater [8:40] but came back forever scarred by it. [8:42] I mean, it's ungrateful. [8:43] To clarify what I had said previously [8:46] is that it is, in my view, [8:48] ungrateful to America's service personnel [8:50] to say that they have not kept us safe [8:52] when we do not measure the non-events. [8:54] Just allow me to say it. [8:56] But that's not what I said. [8:57] But he didn't say that. [9:00] So you have to acknowledge that he didn't say that. [9:01] No, no, no, he's saying that we can measure non-events, [9:04] which is to suggest that the attacks that have not happened, [9:07] which none of us are aware of, [9:08] were not avoidable. [9:10] Because of the nature of these conflicts. [9:12] And the conflicts themselves are what inspires the attacks. [9:15] It's almost inviting the notion [9:16] that America is responsible for the terrorist attacks. [9:18] That's not really the argument that he's making. [9:20] The argument that he's making is that [9:22] the people who made the arguments [9:26] to go into these conflicts in the first place misled, [9:30] which is a fact. [9:31] And secondly, that the conflicts ended up [9:34] lasting a very long time, [9:35] costing a lot of American treasure. [9:38] And those are also facts. [9:41] He didn't say it's because they didn't keep us safe. [9:45] That's not actually what he said. [9:46] Well, it is kind of what he said. [9:47] But let's just labor the point. [9:48] I have all the time in the world for criticisms [9:50] of the president's rhetoric. [9:52] All the time in the world. [9:52] In fact, I think a lot of the reasons [9:54] why the public has soured on this [9:55] is because the president never approached Americans [9:56] and said, solicited their support, [9:59] told them the burdens they were expected to bear, [10:00] and told them why they were going into this. [10:02] But as important as it is to criticize [10:03] the president's rhetoric, [10:04] it's also important to talk about [10:05] what's happening on the ground. [10:06] And we are closer today to opening up the strait [10:08] by virtue of what we heard from Admiral Brad Cooper today [10:11] and the operation that was engaged [10:12] over the course of the last 24 hours. [10:14] Very important. [10:14] I covered the war in Iraq. [10:17] I was there for all the arguments [10:18] going into that war in Iraq. [10:20] I remember people saying [10:21] this was the major sponsor of terror. [10:24] And you pointed to 9-11 Iraq. [10:26] Had nothing whatsoever to do with 9-11. [10:28] And going into Iraq and toppling that regime [10:30] as much as I hated the regime [10:33] as any right-thinking people, [10:35] spawned from the direct consequence of that [10:38] the Islamic State, also a terrorist group [10:40] that came directly out of our actions in Iraq. [10:43] So, you know, if we want to look [10:45] at historical precedents, [10:46] we should not cherry-pick little bits [10:49] out of a larger picture.