Debate roundup: Unpacking Trump's growing MAGA pushback

[0:00] Trump has cratered. That is the word now from Megyn Kelly, once a huge defender of President Trump, [0:05] of course. She's reacting to the series of polls and such now that are not so good for Trump amid [0:11] the war with Iran. Today, consumer sentiment hit its lowest level on record going back to 1952. [0:19] 58 percent of Americans also now disapprove of the job that the president is doing, [0:23] according to The New York Times polling average, the highest disapproval numbers of his second term. [0:29] And the most recent Fox News poll shows a majority of voters think that Democrats will be better than [0:34] Republicans for the economy. And get this, that's the first time that has happened in that poll [0:40] since 2010 under President Obama. And then there's this take from Megyn Kelly. [0:47] Trump has cratered. I mean, cratered. It's like not even present tense anymore. It's [0:52] done. You're effed. You need to adjust something ASAP. [0:57] Max Rose, Gretchen Carlson are both out front here. Gretchen, do you see it as bad for the [1:04] president and the Republican Party as she's painting it? [1:07] I think it's bad with a capital B. He's underwater in absolutely every category except [1:13] border security, which is 53 to 47 percent. With independence, he's underwater 55 points. There's [1:20] been almost a 60 point swing since he was reelected just a year and a half ago. [1:24] And that's no matter what any campaign says, like we don't watch it. We look at trends. [1:29] That is like a five alarm fire. [1:30] Well, that is a five alarm because independents decide every election. We know that. [1:35] But I think if the election were held today with those numbers, Trump would have lost in a landslide, [1:41] not one. And really, he just needs to look in the mirror because a lot of his ideas, [1:47] a lot of Americans agreed with. That's why he was reelected. Immigration, the economy, his strong [1:52] points. But his implementation of the plans is what has suffered. It's not necessarily the ideas. [2:00] It's the way in which he goes about it, which has been a failure. [2:03] Yeah. Max, midterms are often or maybe I should say always seen as a referendum on the party in power. [2:09] Sure. The way that President Trump's top advisors are saying they're approaching the midterms, though, [2:15] is trying to portray it as a stark choice between two parties and just Democrats simply are worse at [2:22] it. Do you think they could be successful in this? Look, as a Democrat, I would say to my Republican [2:28] friends, these numbers are not that bad. They shouldn't change a thing. Keep the keep keep the course. [2:34] No one be concerned. Look away. Yeah, it's totally going to be fine for them. Look, [2:39] these numbers are god awful and we're getting to the point in the electoral cycle where certainly, [2:45] yes, independents matter, perhaps the most. But what's a close second as well is the enthusiasm [2:50] of your own party, particularly in a midterm election when there's not a presidential top ticket. [2:56] And you couldn't possibly have numbers this slow if your base also wasn't dramatically [3:04] changing their sentiments away from you. That's what Megyn Kelly is pointed to. Those are her [3:10] viewers. So this is a five alarm fire for the Republicans on the Democratic side. [3:16] What they principally have to be concerned about right now is discipline. No self-inflicted wounds. [3:23] Keep calm. Have you met either party before, Max? Because you've got plenty of time and plenty of [3:29] self-inflicted wounds. As much as I like Max, I will have to say that the Democrats also need to find [3:33] a leader. They need to coalesce around somebody. I don't think we know necessarily who that person might [3:39] be yet, but they also need to go back to the basics of what they used to be strong at, which is the [3:44] economy, the middle class, etc. So I think there is still work to do on the Democratic side. I don't [3:50] think they should run with these numbers and say, hey, it's going to be smooth sailing. [3:53] What's your general view, both of you, on if, okay, let's just, god awful is where numbers are at [3:59] right now. But the second question is always, is there enough time to turn it around? I mean, [4:07] unlike the broad sense, I wonder if that's possible if you look at the economy. But when you look at [4:12] how the president has talked about the war of the wrong, it's either over or almost over and has been [4:18] like that since the first attack, the way he talks about it. There's, even if it did end tomorrow, [4:26] there is a political question in, has lasting damage been done just in these 56 days politically [4:36] already? I don't know. What do you think? I think his base would come right back to him. [4:41] Remember, they reelected him because they were more isolationist. They didn't want to get America [4:46] involved in any wars. I think the biggest problem's going to be for him is the economy [4:50] at this point, because you can't just reverse the increase in gas prices. [4:54] You can't message your way out of it. Let's be honest. [4:55] No. And so I think, you know, look, at the bottom line, people vote with how they feel about the [4:59] economy and 100%. And so that would be the first reason of how they will vote. But I do think you [5:06] can turn this around. The other thing I'll just quickly add is if Republicans want to be reelected for [5:10] the midterms, they need to start distancing themselves from Trump. We saw that with Tom Tillis and what [5:16] happened with the Fed chair. He said he wasn't going to vote for the new one if they continued [5:20] to prosecute the old one. Guess what? They dropped that investigation. Republicans have power if they [5:25] want it. You know, my wife and I, we took our little kids to one of those indoor playground gyms the [5:31] other day. If you don't have little kids, I would recommend don't ever go to one of these things. But [5:36] a guy came up to me. Right. And this is on Staten Island. You know, plenty of Trump voters, majority [5:41] Trump supporters. And he said to me, we knew each other said, look, I'm MAGA through and through, [5:46] but I didn't vote for America first comma war with Iran. This has hit home amongst the Trump. [5:54] Do you think you think the damage has searing searing damage because it's so out in center [6:02] that he lied. He clearly ran on ending forever wars are never committing to another forever war to not [6:10] being a president that engages in reckless war overseas. And look at what he's done. It's so [6:15] obvious, so clear, such a flagrant lie to his base that they're very clearly angry and are leaning [6:22] towards staying at home. There is a rift that is widening among some Republicans over this war in Iran [6:27] with some of the president's once loyal followers pushing back now on this. Listen. [6:34] Literally, we're four months, four weeks into this war. And this is the first we've heard about. [6:38] We're going to go in and just get the uranium that we haven't. That's that is new. It changed from, [6:43] oh, no, it's about the missiles. We got to get rid of those missiles. [6:46] OK, Iran can't have a nuclear weapon. That was stated broadly. We got to do regime change because [6:51] the Ayatollah is bad. It just keeps moving. And then there's Senator Lindsey Graham. He's [6:57] one of the most hawkish figures in President Trump's orbit. And he called on Trump in a post [7:02] this morning to wind down. Yes, you read that right. Wind down the war and wind up efforts for [7:10] a peace deal. Graham added that he supports diplomatic efforts, but he said that an agreement [7:15] from both sides is needed to resolve this conflict. So, Lydia, I mean, what is going on here? I mean, [7:21] obviously, look, I always have to caveat this. MAGA is behind the president, but there are some [7:27] people who are worried about where this is heading. Megyn Kelly is one of them. But Lindsey Graham [7:32] saying wind down the war. He went to Disney World this weekend, [7:34] and I think he wants to bring some of that Disney magic back to Washington, D.C., clearly. Look, [7:40] I think one thing that's always been a hallmark of the right is ideological diversity. And I think [7:43] it's good for conservatives to push back and make sure that President Trump is not in an eco-chamber [7:48] and that he's hearing what many in his base think. And so I'm glad to hear that articulated. I think [7:54] what's more troubling to me than a podcaster saying, should we be pushing for regime change, [7:59] is the fact that you have Democratic candidates, a Democratic candidate in Michigan, who basically, [8:04] in a leaked tape today, said, I don't want to criticize the Ayatollah because too many constituents [8:09] in Michigan are devastated that he's dead. So that's something that I think is much more concerning [8:14] than Megyn Kelly. A Democratic candidate in Michigan. Yes, El Sayyad from Michigan said, [8:20] there are a lot of people in Dearborn who are sad about his death. I would much rather see a party [8:25] have a debate and stay silent about the Ayatollah. Until that candidate in Michigan is commander-in-chief [8:31] and actually can do something about the war, I'm going to give what Trump says and what the people [8:35] around him say more important. I would like to see Ayatollah roundly condemned. I think that's [8:39] something we should all agree on as Americans. Nobody's certainly not condemned the Ayatollah. [8:43] But on the question of what the president of the United States is going to do, [8:46] the problem is that Trump right now does live in an echo chamber surrounded by his cabinet members, [8:53] right? This would probably be a very different situation if it was the Trump cabinet from [9:00] the first administration that you were part of. If there was a Mike Pence there, if there was a Jim [9:04] Mattis there, if there was a John Kelly there. And I think that was pretty hawkish. That was part of the [9:10] reason why he put people like Pete Hegseth in there, why he put people like Pam Bondi and like [9:17] Marco Rubio in there, because the quality he was looking for was absolute loyalty and they're showing [9:22] it. Do you think that the president is hearing this concern? Conservatives and some of the people [9:30] that he used to cross over, right? So not just MAGA, but the people like the Joe Rogans who helped him [9:37] get to the sort of the MAGA bros and the people in the middle who are worried that he's breaking [9:42] promises, worried that he's slipping into a conflict that could necessitate American troops on the ground [9:50] in Iran. Sure, he's hearing it. I think he follows it pretty closely. I think he's always following, [9:55] I think he's beta testing messages constantly. But as I started, Abby, I think that the professor makes [10:01] a great point about October 7th, because for Israel, that has become an existential threat. [10:06] And for Israel, it's hard for them to find a better partner than President Trump in this campaign. [10:10] But I think that the administration has failed to do is to give clear messaging. The messaging has [10:15] continued to diverge on different reasons for why we're engaged here and what the ultimate objective [10:21] is. They would do well to explain that to the American people. I think that again, Iran has posed a [10:25] threat for 47 years. They've slaughtered many of Westerners. They create an existential threat for our [10:30] partner in Israel. And they are trying to develop nuclear weapons. There's a rationale for this, [10:34] but it has to be explained to the American people. I'm also offended when anyone projects themselves [10:40] as Christ or as Christ or God incarnate. And you shouldn't want that. We should not [10:49] have a president who gleefully blasphemes the faith of, by far, the vast majority of his supporters. [10:55] The cracks are widening in the MAGA Foundation tonight after President Trump [11:00] shared this AI image of himself depicted as Jesus. After severe backlash, Trump deleted the post. [11:07] And then he claimed that it was actually a picture of him as a doctor. It's just the latest in a [11:12] pattern of increasingly erratic behavior that we've seen from Trump. And that seems to be getting under [11:17] MAGA skin. Just last week, Trump also threatened to wipe out an entire civilization, the Iranian [11:23] civilization. And that has CNN political commentator Essie Cupp calling out former Trump diehards for [11:30] suddenly feeling buyer's remorse. You and your buyer's remorse. Who would listen to you now? [11:37] Who would listen to you? You got us here. You voted for him. You told everyone they have to vote for [11:43] him, right? It's going to be World War III if you don't vote for him. Give me a break. No one cares what [11:48] you have to say anymore. We told you so. Anna, I feel like maybe you might empathize with what [11:58] Essie is saying there. I mean, there are all these people, Megyn Kelly, Tucker Carlson, among them, [12:05] Marjorie Taylor Greene, who they are, I don't know, I guess they have amnesia. They don't remember seeing [12:13] Trump for the last decade. I'm not sure that Trump really has changed all that much. They have changed. [12:18] Agreed. Their tolerance has changed. But Trump hasn't. Well, look, I'm seeing it in my own [12:25] circles in Miami. Remember, I live in a community that overwhelmingly supported Trump. And I am seeing [12:31] some of the cracks in the dam. And I think part of the reason that he's picked this fight with the [12:36] Pope, other than the fact that the Pope gets under his skin and he's depicting himself as Jesus Christ [12:43] and then lying about it. So that's like two or three commandments that he violated in [12:48] one fell swoop is because he's having such such a bad time right now. Right. His wife is out there [12:56] giving some random press conference at Epstein, the subject he wants to forget. The approval numbers are [13:02] down, down, down in the basement. He is his Iran talks have fallen apart, all while he's in Miami [13:11] watching a UFC fight. Gas prices are through the roof. And his best friend in Hungary just lost [13:19] overwhelmingly after 16 years in power, despite J.D. Vance having been there just a few days ago, [13:25] helping him campaign. And instead of us talking about Victor Orban and the bells that that should be [13:31] ringing for Republicans, the wake up alarms that that should be ringing for Republicans, [13:37] we're talking about Trump's insanity and stupidity and blasphemy and lack of respect. [13:44] So, uh, is there a point, is there logic to his method and his madness? Yes. But it's, but people [13:50] are less and less tolerant of it because it's one after the other, after the other, after the other. [13:55] I want to interject on Anna's point. Um, I don't think Trump lied about the post and I'm not here to [14:02] defend that reaction that you think he thought he was, I want to tell you that Trump didn't AI that photo. [14:07] The original post, was it, was it Nick Adams who posted it originally? So he posted that many, [14:11] many months ago, calling Trump the healer of the nation. Now I'm not crazy. I have eyes. I could [14:16] see how people are like, oh, Trump is portraying himself as Jesus Christ. But A, he took it down. [14:21] B, this isn't really that surprising to anyone. And C, that's not the, if the person who created the [14:27] photo is denying that, I don't know who we are. Do you find it blasphemous? Yeah. If he was [14:33] intentionally portraying himself as Jesus Christ? He was. But he was. Do you think he was portraying [14:37] himself as a doctor? I don't think so. Oh, as a healer of the nation? That's how, that's what the guy [14:41] who created it is. But like what doctor like has glowing hands like that. Like if he can't identify [14:46] that that looked like Jesus Christ, then I'm concerned with his. But even, even the healer of the [14:50] nation thing, I'm not, that doesn't absolve him of anything. But I feel like he didn't need it. You know, [14:55] Jesus, the whole thing that the picture depicts is Jesus healing, okay? That's what the picture is [15:01] supposed to show. In the Bible, Jesus heals several people. And so the idea that Trump [15:07] thought of himself as a healer, but sees himself depicted as somebody dressed like Jesus, [15:14] with an aura around his hands and his head, it is, that does not absolve him at all. [15:20] Well, did he delete it? Do we have bigger things in the world to talk about? Sure, he deleted the [15:24] image and I am, I will applaud him for that. I mean, I think that like the line is like, [15:28] what if, like what if Barack Obama did it? Like that would be- I honestly, honestly- [15:31] It's not an honestly thing. It's like, I know how you would react. But, but the fact is that, [15:37] and I think that this is not a, this is not a Donald Trump problem. This is more of like a, [15:41] my good friends on the panel problem. Because we know who Donald Trump is. And the problem is that [15:46] his supporters cannot sit on TV or wherever it is and simply say, look, that's blasphemous. [15:52] But they did. So many of them did. Riley Gaines did. [15:54] But I mean, like it's sacrilegious. You're, you're, you're, you are absolving him of the issue that I [16:01] find to be very blasphemous, that I find to be very sacrilegious, that 90% of America finds him to be [16:06] very sacrilegious on. This is Mr. Two Corinthians. This is not somebody who actually has a full grasp of [16:12] theology, a full grasp of scripture. But yet, and still, this is a party of faith. [16:18] Well, Bakari, don't get me wrong. I would not have been like, hey, this is a phenomenal idea. [16:22] I'm not saying that. That's not what I'm saying. [16:23] That's not what I'm asking. That's not my charge to you at all. And the audacity of me to have a [16:27] charge to you on national TV. My charge to you, however, is to simply be able to say on camera, [16:32] Donald Trump was wrong. Oh, I've said it plenty of times. [16:35] I don't have a problem saying that. No, on this particular issue, [16:38] Donald Trump was wrong. He should not have done it. It's not about him taking it down. [16:42] Be able to have the audacity and courage to call him out and say it was wrong. [16:45] Okay, let me say this. It wasn't smart to post. [16:48] Oh, my God. He took it down. It was wrong to post. He took it down. [16:51] I won't get through this. He deleted it. We'll move on. [16:56] Is the Democratic Party not also a party of faith? [16:59] Well, very much so. I hate the fact that you won't do that. [17:01] I don't know. They made Trans Visibility Day on Easter. [17:03] First of all, first of all, just so we're extremely clear, [17:09] the most culturally conservative and religiously conservative group in the country [17:13] are black folk in the South, which happen to be the base of the Democratic Party. [17:16] So one thing we will not do is question the religiosity. We will not question the Christianity. [17:22] We will not question whether or not we have believers in the Democratic Party. [17:26] That's something we won't do. Because I know for a fact, like, my mama was in church on Wednesday, [17:31] Saturday, and Sunday. That's how we grew up. And that is the way that it is. And so we're not going to [17:37] have that. All right. All right. Hang on one second. Okay. Hello. Hi. [17:41] Hi. Hey, Addie. Welcome to the Addie Phillips Show. [17:44] J.D. Vance defended the president's... A converted Catholic. [17:48] Well, we'll get to that. He defended the post. And then tonight, [17:54] he actually had some strong words for the pope, criticizing the pope for talking about war. Listen. [18:04] On the one hand, again, I like that the pope is an advocate for peace. I think that's certainly one of [18:09] his roles. On the other hand, how can you say that God is never on the side of those who wield [18:15] the sword? Was God on the side of the Americans who liberated France from the Nazis? Was God on the [18:22] side of the Americans who liberated Holocaust camps and liberated those innocent people from, you know, [18:29] those who had survived the Holocaust? I certainly think the answer is yes. [18:37] Well, Abby, what do you not like about that? Well, here's what he was doing in those comments, [18:42] and he had many more, was he was saying to the pope, don't get over your skis on theology. [18:50] This is someone who was converted to Catholicism. [18:56] J.D. Vance became a Catholic in 2019, after being an Episcopalian and an atheist. [19:02] Now he's a Catholic. Was that before or after he became a Trumper? [19:07] What is surprising to me is that he would suggest that the pope doesn't understand [19:14] the theology of the Catholic Church. I think friction between national [19:18] leaders and the papacy has been a hallmark throughout time. We can go back to Emperor [19:23] Henry IV who slammed Pope Gregory VII. King Henry VIII had so many problems with Pope Clement VII [19:31] that he started his own church, and King Philip IV, his agents assaulted Pope Boniface VIII, [19:37] who died shortly then. [19:38] I love that research. [19:39] So I'm just saying, I love that research. [19:41] Put in a historic person. [19:42] Let me tell you a difference. [19:44] Those were kings. This is the United States of America, and there's over 50 million Catholics, [19:51] a lot of them who supported Donald Trump. So what he's doing is not only wrong from, you know, [19:57] every perspective. It's also politically stupid. Picking a fight with the Pope. When we Catholics go [20:03] to Mass, and I will admit, I don't go to Mass that often. I should go more. But when we go to Mass, [20:08] one of the things we do at Mass every Sunday is we pray for the Pope. We pray for the Archbishop. [20:14] We pray for the priest. We pray for the Pope every single Sunday. You don't pick a fight with the Pope. [20:19] So does that mean Trump has to agree with every Pope or imam? [20:22] Nobody's saying that he has to agree. [20:24] I've never seen a Pope get so political than not only this Pope, but the one prior. [20:29] I'm like Pope Francis. [20:29] They're like interjecting. [20:30] Let me introduce you to John Paul II, who was very much part of the politics with Margaret Thatcher [20:36] and Ronald Reagan. [20:37] So that's fair game. [20:38] We need to put it in context. [20:39] If you want to get political, then it's fair game if they disagree. [20:42] Politically. [20:42] We need to put it in context that a lot of the Pope's criticisms of the war came after Trump [20:47] threatened to annihilate the entire Iranian civilian population. [20:50] Can we do a quick poll? Do you think he would have done it? [20:51] Do you think he meant it? [20:52] It's yes or no? [20:53] I think that he was... [20:54] It doesn't matter. [20:54] It should do. [20:55] He was threatened. [20:55] It does. [20:55] But do you think that's because he's trying to follow that? [20:58] Emily, does it matter whether he meant it? [21:00] Is that a good negotiating tactic for the president of the United States to use that rhetoric? [21:02] Yeah. I mean, does it matter whether he meant it? [21:05] Does it matter to you that an American president puts annihilating a civilization on the table? [21:11] This is something I actually said on your show previously. [21:13] With Trump, I follow his actions, less his words. [21:16] We all know he runs his mouth. [21:18] So, hold on, hold on. [21:19] This is not news. [21:19] By that same logic, when a terrorist regime like Iran says that they want to annihilate Israel... [21:27] But they mean it. [21:28] Yeah, but yeah. [21:28] They actually, they've shown that they will do that. [21:31] One of the big differences between us and terrorist regimes is that we don't threaten it and we don't mean it. [21:39] I'm okay with threatening terrorist regimes. [21:39] I'm not okay with threatening the civilian population of innocent people. [21:42] We don't threaten it and we don't mean it. [21:43] And I think we all know that he would not have even thought about doing that and that clearly he was putting pressure... [21:48] But I don't think that's the right position for an American president to take to put that on the negotiating table. [21:51] Respectfully, I think that's terrible politics and I think Peter may agree with me on this because I think what you should do is actually bring the Pope in, bring Catholics in. [21:58] You don't necessarily antagonize the Pope, right? [22:02] Because you have somebody who is, in terms of being a religious conservative, in terms of all of the leaders that we have in the Republican Party, he's probably near the bottom 1%, right? [22:15] And so what you do is you bring in other Catholic leaders. [22:17] What you do is you bring in the Pope. [22:19] What you do is you try to mend that fence. [22:21] You don't antagonize him from Air Force One. [22:23] You don't antagonize him from the Rose Garden. [22:25] What you do is you try to heal. [22:27] That's the problem that people have. [22:29] If Donald Trump would have taken a different tact, if the Pope says this is an unjust war and you say, look, I believe it's just because of X, Y, and Z. [22:38] Not necessarily personal attacks, but X, Y, and Z. [22:41] Bring in the Catholic members of the Senate and the House. [22:45] What I'm asking this old man to do is be normal and not demented. [22:52] And unfortunately, that is not a bar that he can cross.