Debate roundup: Trump vs. Kimmel in free speech clash

[0:00] Do you think that this time is different? [0:03] Well, I think certainly Donald Trump hopes it's different [0:05] because this is his opportunity to actually try to win this fight. [0:09] I mean, there's nothing that enrages him more than being beaten. [0:14] And that's exactly what happened last fall, which you're referring to, [0:17] which is that after attempting, after the FCC sort of jawboned ABC [0:24] into trying to get Kimmel off the air, they did so for a week. [0:28] And then he was, after a massive backlash, he was brought back on. [0:33] And that was the first really, I don't know if it was the first, [0:36] but it was one of the most important moments when Donald Trump was trying to go after [0:41] not only the media, but law firms and higher education [0:45] when there was a real backlash and he was unsuccessful. [0:49] And I think that that, I don't think, I mean, I talk to people around him [0:52] that he is very eager to undo that defeat. [0:57] And he wants another, he wants another shot at Kimmel. [1:00] And he, you know, he was obviously upset about what he said, [1:06] but that was such, I mean, I don't think that it was an actual fear of, [1:10] that he was, he was calling for violence. [1:14] Yeah, I mean, look, I... [1:17] It's amazing that we sit at this table and everything is Donald Trump's fault. [1:22] And when you call and put up a picture of the first lady [1:26] and you laugh about her being a widow and her husband being killed, [1:29] who's already been shot, that somehow that is Donald Trump's fault [1:33] and he's mean to Jimmy Kimmel. [1:35] And once Jimmy Kimmel's gone, I don't know who you've talked to the White House. [1:37] I'm around the White House. [1:38] I promise you a lot more than you are. [1:40] The president has not talked about this at all. [1:43] Well, I also... [1:43] At all. [1:44] Like, it's on the list of things he gives you know what about, [1:47] it's down here. [1:48] But when you go on TV... [1:49] The thing that he sent a true social post about this guy? [1:51] After it was said, you can respond. [1:54] And by the way, if this was a joke, [1:55] Jimmy Kimmel could have immediately been a comedian and said, [1:58] hey, in light of what happened tonight, [2:01] that was a joke I apologize for and I'm sorry. [2:03] Because a rogue comedian would say... [2:04] But he didn't. [2:05] And you want to... [2:06] No, you would do it immediately. [2:07] At Twitter, I can tweet right now on your show. [2:09] But hold on. [2:09] I think the question I have... [2:10] He knows he's not going to get fired. [2:12] But he wanted her to be a way to respond. [2:14] Do you think he was referring to Donald Trump [2:16] being murdered? [2:18] Or do you think that he was referring to a 56-year-old woman [2:20] who was married to an 80-something-year-old man? [2:22] I think when you've been shot at three times [2:24] and now this being the third and four different times [2:26] he would try to kill you, yeah. [2:27] I'm going to go out there and say Jimmy Kimmel's a smart guy [2:29] and I think he's saying a widow [2:31] and I think the audience laughed that way. [2:32] They weren't laughing at an age joke. [2:34] I'm not going to try to be clairvoyant about what Jimmy Kimmel meant. [2:36] It's a weak stretch. [2:38] But I will say that we played the lead up to the joke [2:42] so that you could hear the rest of the context. [2:45] Look, I'm not saying you need to like the joke, [2:48] but the rest of the joke was the president... [2:51] What if something were to happen to the president tonight? [2:53] Is there a doctor in the house or Jesus? [2:54] We've been here before several times, though, Jimmy Kimmel. [2:57] I mean, I think the first lady... [2:59] He's a comedian. [2:59] He's a comedian. [3:00] He's a comedian. [3:01] No, he's not a lot. [3:02] He's crossing the line. [3:03] You guys are totally crossing the line on what he's not like. [3:06] It doesn't matter. [3:07] It's a First Amendment issue. [3:09] I'm not arcing First Amendment. [3:11] He can say what he once said, but it's a public airway. [3:13] Hold on a second. [3:14] ABC should fire him. [3:16] ABC should fire him. [3:17] The first lady is right. [3:18] If I made that joke... [3:19] That's not an FEC interaction. [3:20] That is what ABC should be doing. [3:22] If I made that joke on my show joking, [3:24] I would be fired as I should be, [3:26] especially if someone tried to kill that person. [3:28] I didn't apologize immediately. [3:30] Charles. [3:30] Donald Trump posts mock violence on his true social before that Twitter. [3:36] So therefore, got it. [3:38] So can you stop talking for just half a second? [3:41] That would be great. [3:42] All the time. [3:45] And we take it as a joke. [3:46] He posted a video of him beating up CNN in 2017. [3:53] You retweeted that and said, isn't this funny? [3:57] So it's a joke then when he is doing the violence, [4:00] but not... [4:02] If we're going to go back to that, let's go back to it. [4:04] Was he doing it in response to something that CNN had said [4:07] and it turned into a back and forth? [4:09] It literally doesn't matter. [4:09] That's different than talking about someone who's been shot. [4:12] It literally doesn't matter. [4:13] If I made a joke about someone, you being a widower tonight, [4:16] and then someone took a shot at you, [4:18] would you think that was a joke? [4:19] No. [4:19] It's about protecting speech, not popular speech. [4:22] I'm not saying that you don't have the right to say something stupid. [4:25] That is not popular. [4:25] You get to say dumb things. [4:27] It doesn't mean that a corporation has to employ you. [4:29] Exactly. [4:30] And they can choose to employ him or not. [4:32] And they can choose to keep him. [4:34] And Melania Trump and Donald Trump have the right to object to what he has said. [4:39] All of that is free speech. [4:40] That is how it works. [4:42] The idea that he wants to put pressure on the network to get rid of him [4:46] because he doesn't like the speech, [4:48] that steps out of his space. [4:49] He doesn't like people making jokes about his wife being a widow [4:51] after people are trying to kill him. [4:53] He's been enormously successful going after the media in a variety of different ways. [4:56] Who's gotten fired because of him? [4:57] Give me a list. [5:00] Are you familiar? [5:00] No one. [5:01] Who big has he talked about that's been fired? [5:04] Stephen Colbert. [5:05] Stephen Colbert hasn't been fired. [5:06] We saw on the show and y'all said it was because of the economics of TV. [5:09] That was the entire discussion. [5:10] You said that. [5:11] I said he was, no, I did not say that. [5:14] I said that no one was watching in England in half the country. [5:18] Do you think that Donald Trump has not put an enormous amount of pressure on media organizations? [5:24] Was he being feted by David Ellison at a private dinner just a few days before the- [5:29] Barack Obama, when he was president, met with all those guys, too. [5:31] I mean, how many presidents meet with CEOs of almost every company out there? [5:36] Which deal? [5:37] Which deal? [5:38] In a way that presidents don't do and should not do. [5:40] And also, was there a massive corporate deal? [5:42] Wow. [5:43] Okay, this is a new standard. [5:44] We'll go back and look at the Obama books. [5:45] I think it was appropriate for him to be meeting with the CEO of a company that has an active [5:51] merger that's going to go before his administration, where he's the CEO-in-chief. [5:55] All administrations meet with the leaders of companies when there's, especially- [5:58] You have no idea what you're talking about. [5:59] I'm sorry. [6:00] That's not true. [6:01] Go back and look at the Obama years of how many CEOs were at the residence on a continual [6:07] basis. [6:08] Go look at Hunter Biden. [6:09] He was one of his dad. [6:10] We were talking before the break about Trump's tone on Saturday night, and I think he actually [6:15] attempted to strike a measured tone in those moments after the shooting. [6:23] But he came out of a First Amendment dinner where he was excited to roast the press, which [6:28] is totally what he, you know, should have been doing. [6:32] And then Monday morning, here we are, and it's a question of whether the First Amendment [6:37] extends to Jimmy Kimmel, or does it not? [6:42] I don't think we're saying. [6:43] That's not it. [6:44] I think we're saying that ABC should remove him. [6:47] That's not a government-enforced action. [6:49] That is ABC. [6:50] That's their choice. [6:51] Of course it is. [6:52] I'm not arguing that. [6:53] That's their choice. [6:54] ABC has the choice to do it, but I'm suggesting they should. [6:56] And I think advertisers should take note of it, too. [6:59] Well, and he also said he's going to address this tonight. [7:01] I understand what you're saying, that he could have tweeted something quickly, but he said he's [7:03] going to address it tonight on his show. [7:06] But look, I think that we are, it is not right or fair to say that the left, Jimmy Kimmel, [7:12] Democrats are the only ones who are attacking Donald Trump. [7:14] That is simply, he also has a divisive rhetoric, which is why it would be lovely to see the tone [7:20] that we saw from Donald Trump after the White House Correspondent Center. [7:24] He could set the tone for the country as the leader of this country, set the tone. [7:29] I understand things have happened in the past, but there is the future that we have to look [7:32] forward to. [7:33] And he has the power as the president of the United States to actually do a reset, set [7:36] the tone in the right direction. [7:37] Is there a responsibility that lies on anyone else but Donald Trump, that after Donald Trump [7:43] and the multiple assassination attempts, is there a reason, because everything's been [7:46] about Trump responsibility all night. [7:48] Is there any responsibility for Jimmy Kimmel to read the room and realize that, hey, this [7:53] guy's been shot at a couple of times. [7:55] Maybe I shouldn't make a joke about the first lady being a widow? [7:58] Well, Abby, I think this is not what I think he was trying to say. [8:01] Hold on. [8:02] I do think that's a fair question. [8:03] I think this is a fair question for a Jimmy Kimmel, not about what can he do, but about [8:10] taste. [8:11] Right. [8:12] The taste question is the question. [8:13] So to answer his question, I mean, is there a conversation to have that's like, this joke, [8:20] you have a right to say it, but it's in poor taste? [8:22] Yes. [8:23] And also, but here's the thing, you can't, Donald Trump can't give that lesson. [8:28] This is the same person who said, who pushed the conspiracy, first of all, made fun of [8:32] Paul Pelosi for being attacked, who was almost killed, made fun of him for being attacked, [8:36] and then pushed the conspiracy theory that the glass was broken from the outside, from [8:40] the inside out and not from the outside in. [8:43] And the basis of that conspiracy theory was that that was Paul Pelosi's gay lover. [8:48] This is the same person who, when Melissa Hortman was actually assassinated in Minnesota, pushed [8:54] the conspiracy theory by reposting a video on his true social that Governor Tim Walz was [9:00] involved, and the question mark was whether or not he had had her assassinated. [9:04] I understand you don't like Trump, is there any accountability for anybody else in the world [9:07] besides Donald Trump? [9:08] He cannot, and no one defending him cannot tell me anything about civility. [9:12] No, ever. [9:13] Hold on, Ben. [9:14] Hold on a second, Ben. [9:15] I asked Charles to respond to your question. [9:17] He didn't. [9:18] Let me ask you to respond to his. [9:21] When President Trump does the things that he describes, he's shared a video of supporters [9:24] saying the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat. [9:27] He's posted a video showing President Biden hogtied, et cetera, et cetera. [9:31] You could go on and on. [9:33] Is there accountability, responsibility for him to not do those things? [9:38] I go back to what I said at the beginning of the show. [9:40] If I had just been shot at again, had someone trying to kill me again, I think the president's [9:44] rhetoric from the White House in saying we're going to do this dinner, it is important [9:48] to have this dinner, we're going to do this quickly, we're going to come together. [9:52] I saw people coming together. [9:54] That was an incredible moment of unity, but he gets no credit for it. [9:58] I understand that. [9:59] But I go back to the point. [10:00] Well, I mean, my question was... [10:01] So you also didn't answer the question. [10:02] Sure he did. [10:03] I said, he's clearly drunk, unlike you guys who are like, it's all Donald Trump's fault. [10:08] My question was, is there a responsibility for President Trump to not behave the way that [10:14] he has behaved in the past? [10:15] And can you just say, it was wrong, he shouldn't have done it? [10:20] I go back to what I said. [10:21] I think... [10:22] ...for networks to police themselves. [10:23] ABC station owners and advertisers are not clamoring to fire Jimmy Kimmel this time. [10:28] And it seems to suggest that they feel like they've seen this movie before and they think [10:33] these threats are empty or likely to fail. [10:36] Yeah. [10:37] Well, the initial inquiries were sent in March, they were just reported today. [10:39] And it is the FCC's job to see what's happening on the airwaves. [10:43] I just think from ABC's vantage point, it's extremely inconsistent. [10:46] They've had no issue firing Roseanne Barr in two seconds. [10:49] She tried to apologize. [10:50] They said, no way. [10:51] They fired Chris Harrison from The Bachelor because he said, should we fire somebody and [10:55] get rid of her for going to a party when she was a teen? [10:58] And I'd like to remind people too, I mean, when Obama was president, there was literally [11:02] a clown at a rodeo in Missouri who made a joke about Obama getting gored by a bull. [11:09] He got fired. [11:10] So, unless it's Trump, we have a very high standard for what we expect of entertainment employees, [11:15] what we expect in terms of being respectful to the president. [11:19] And I would remind people as well, you know, there was another assassination attempt at [11:23] the Hilton, obviously against Ronald Reagan the last time. [11:27] And after that incident, the country was so shaken. [11:29] Johnny Carson, who was a Democrat, decided to postpone the Oscars because he thought it [11:34] would be inappropriate to be celebrating and cheering when there was such an act of political [11:39] violence. [11:39] And you juxtapose that with Jimmy Kimmel, who continues to double down and ridicule and [11:46] make fun of Melania. [11:48] It would have been so easy for him to say, I screwed up. [11:50] I apologize and take some responsibility. [11:53] And instead, he just wants to continue to victim blame Donald Trump for getting shot at. [11:58] Seriously? [11:59] Although in this particular case, Kimmel would have had to have some prior knowledge of what [12:03] was going to happen in this case, to have something to apologize for. [12:06] Right, but at the time he was unfortunate enough that he might as well have said, you [12:09] know what? [12:09] I'm not sure. [12:10] That was an unfortunate timing. [12:12] I wish that hadn't been said. [12:13] I suppose one could say that, but he also made a joke on Thursday. [12:18] The bad thing that we are all alluding to here happened on Saturday. [12:21] The two are not connected in any meaningful sense. [12:24] And again, what you said earlier is worth repeating. [12:28] The several attacks that have happened directed at Donald Trump are egregious. [12:32] It's shaken me quite a bit, honestly, to think that in the United States, in the year of [12:37] our Lord, 2026, people are taking shots at the president. [12:41] And this is disconcerting. [12:43] At the same time, it doesn't seem appropriate to me that the response from the administration [12:47] is, well, let's start cracking down on everyone who is saying anything directed at the president, [12:52] even if it has no connection whatsoever to an assassination plot. [12:56] That, to me, again, slacks of pettiness. [12:59] It seems vindictive. [13:01] And again, it runs afoul of our laws. [13:03] If there is a legitimate concern about systematic discrimination on the part of broadcasters [13:07] here, the FCC would pretty much have grounds to go after every broadcaster in America related [13:13] to DEI policies. [13:13] Including, by the way, Fox, which has DEI policies. [13:18] Absolutely. [13:18] Just like all the other networks. [13:20] Yeah. [13:20] But anyway, Ellie. [13:21] Private entities have the right to fire people if they want, if they don't like that person's [13:26] speech. [13:26] But the real fundamental question here has to do with governmental power. [13:30] Do we want the FCC policing the content of speech? [13:35] Because that's a totally different thing. [13:36] The First Amendment applies to governmental action. [13:39] It doesn't apply directly to ABC. [13:41] And so if the FCC is throwing its governmental weight around to try to influence speech, to [13:46] try to punish certain speech, that is where the First Amendment is violated. [13:50] Punish, throw your weight around, going back to the first segment. [13:54] When you talk about regulation, the biggest thing that's changed since Ronald Reagan's [13:57] horrible assassination attempt at that same hotel, and we were talking about it in the [14:01] break, is the internet. [14:03] Things now on the internet make us want to hate each other because we're Team Red or Team [14:08] Blue because it makes people literally rich. [14:11] And the government, whether we should or shouldn't regulate, people scream at me from the right [14:15] and from the left. [14:15] We've got to be able to go on the internet and say whatever we want to say. [14:18] That's all right. [14:18] It's the new town square, a la what Tesla guy said. [14:23] What's his name? [14:24] Elon Musk? [14:25] That's right. [14:25] It's the new town square. [14:26] But when you put it in this context, it starts a pattern of what we're talking about, Abby, [14:31] which is, is it overreach? [14:33] Is it regulation? [14:34] Is it folks? [14:35] While, again, and I'll stop, people at home are trying to figure out how to make ends meet. [14:39] They see their government trying to regulate whatever news is. [14:41] Well, I mean, you're making a good point that for a while, it seemed that the free speech [14:47] argument was the argument being made on the right by people like Elon Musk, by people like [14:51] J.D. Vance, who last year went to Europe and lectured them about protecting free speech. [14:57] Listen. [14:58] In Britain and across Europe, free speech, I fear, is in retreat. [15:07] So I come here today not just with an observation, but with an offer. [15:11] And just as the Biden administration seemed desperate to silence people for speaking their [15:15] minds, so the Trump administration will do precisely the opposite. [15:21] And I hope that we can work together on that. [15:24] In Washington, there is a new sheriff in town. [15:26] And under Donald Trump's leadership, we may disagree with your views, but we will fight [15:32] to defend your right to offer it in the public square. [15:37] Unless you are a late night comedian, Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert, or frankly, anybody [15:43] who criticizes President Trump, they won't defend your right to say things they disagree [15:47] with then. [15:48] The president is not prosecuting Jimmy Kimmel. [15:51] He's saying he should be fired. [15:52] And that could be his opinion. [15:53] If you if you joked about someone's death, which he believed he did, go ahead, you know, [15:57] criticizing the government doesn't necessarily be in prosecution. [16:00] So he's using the government to bring something that they brought in March of 2025. [16:03] They started this in March of 2025. [16:04] You can use the government's regulatory power. [16:07] I'm not talking just about this, because don't forget, that was the lead. [16:11] Brandon Carr made this threat first last fall. [16:14] So the threat of using the government's regulatory power to police speech and police the actions [16:21] of private corporations, that has been unequivocally put on the table. [16:25] And I'm not the old. [16:26] Hold on. [16:26] Hold on a second. [16:27] As it mentioned, I am not the only letter is about the I'm not the only person saying [16:32] that here's Ted Cruz today. [16:34] He says it is not the government's job to censor. [16:38] I do not believe the FCC should operate as the speech police. [16:43] Ted Cruz. [16:44] He is no. [16:45] He is. [16:46] I would ask you and Ted Cruz. [16:47] Hater. [16:47] He's no rhino. [16:48] Where? [16:48] He believes that this action. [16:51] And he's he was consistent. [16:52] The last action, the last comments by Brandon Carr, he was very clear that he believed that [16:58] that was a clear evidence of jawboning, which is using the threat to coerce speech. [17:03] So it doesn't require that you throw somebody in jail. [17:06] Just the threat of using regulatory power to coerce their actions is what is happening. [17:11] To be clear, the FCC is not threatening to throw anybody in jail. [17:13] It's not that they do. [17:13] Are you denying that Brandon Carr did not issue a threat in the fall to ABC or to Disney that [17:19] they were in a letter in March 2025? [17:22] Joe, simple question. [17:23] Did Brandon Carr in the fall say that he would that he would take a look at Disney's FCC [17:31] licenses because of the comments that Jimmy Kimmel made? [17:34] I don't remember, but I can tell you what I can tell you. [17:37] I can tell you. [17:37] I can tell you. [17:38] Hold on a second. [17:38] I can tell you he did say that. [17:40] So given that he said that, do you acknowledge that that's him using his power as a government [17:46] entity to try to coerce the actions of a private company? [17:50] You are you are trying to stretch something that is on paper that you can read with your [17:54] own eyes and see the chairman's letter involves Disney's DEI policies, which the federal [18:00] and the FCC has been regulating equal employment practices since something like 1968 or 1969. [18:05] Every time a license gets renewed, they have to apply the same standards to everybody. [18:09] And one of those standards is employment practices. [18:12] If Disney has. [18:13] I mean, it's a good question. [18:15] Why are they applying this standard across the board? [18:18] Well, when they get their license renewed, they will. [18:20] Well, hold on. [18:20] If Disney has nothing to hide about their employment practices, why don't they go through you? [18:24] No, Disney's licenses are not up for renewal. [18:26] They're not. [18:26] They're up in 2028. [18:27] Yeah. [18:28] They've expedited the process. [18:29] They are not up for renewal. [18:30] The way we are talking about this at this table, all of us, exposes that this is a pretext [18:35] piled atop another pretext. [18:37] We all know this is not about DEI policies. [18:40] We're not even really talking about it this way. [18:42] We know it's about the content of speech. [18:45] We know it's about the jokes Jimmy Kimmel made. [18:47] We know it's about the kind of things that he says. [18:49] That's what's prompting all of this. [18:51] I would have made it about DEI got interrupted 20 times. [18:53] Which broadcaster hasn't made commitments to do this kind of DEI hiring? [18:57] Disney has a policy that's 50% of their characters. [18:59] Do you know of any broadcaster that hasn't done this? [19:02] Underrepresented groups. [19:03] Do you know of any broadcaster that hasn't made similar commitments since 2020? [19:07] No. [19:07] And when their licenses get renewed, I imagine the FCC isn't up for renewal. [19:10] What we know is that the process was actually expedited here. [19:14] In fact, it seems as though they've expedited the process in the last couple of days. [19:18] Why do you suspect that happened? [19:21] The process began in March of 2025. [19:24] It was done over the last year. [19:26] You pointed out something that happened in the fall. [19:28] So this has been ongoing for over a year. [19:29] I'm asking you why they're expediting now. [19:31] I'm just telling you that there is an ongoing inquiry by the FCC. [19:36] I understand. [19:36] And that Disney has nothing to hide about their DEI policies. [19:39] The answer is not convenient for you. [19:40] I don't think it's in good faith to suggest that things that happened in recent history [19:46] that were big stories at the time didn't happen. [19:49] They happened, right? [19:51] We know that Brendan Carr's threats to Disney were, that was the big story. [19:58] And he was crystal clear about it. [20:00] Even Republicans had to rebuke him. [20:01] And that's why they ultimately backed down and Disney, and they put Jimmy Kimmel back [20:06] on the air. [20:07] So we can't pretend like that didn't happen. [20:09] We can't pretend that that's not the context. [20:11] We also can't pretend that the context isn't that Trump has specifically asked and told [20:18] ABC that they should take Kimmel off the air. [20:21] So all of that, Joe, I mean, if you're being honest. [20:25] You're forgetting that Disney has been in the bulls' lives of the Republican Party since [20:28] Ron DeSantis five years ago. [20:30] I mean, this is not a company that Republicans have shied away from attacking. [20:33] If you're being honest, I think my final question to you, it's just sort of like in [20:37] the last segment when we were talking about this. [20:40] Do you really believe that this is the proper use of the federal government? [20:46] You are a conservative. [20:47] The FCC. [20:49] J.D. Vance said, we will protect your right to say things we don't like. [20:52] Is it the right use of the government for the FCC chairman to threaten a private company [20:58] over speech that the president doesn't like? [21:00] The FCC chairman put in writing a question about the DEI policies, which they have jurisdiction [21:04] to oversee. [21:05] If Disney does not have anything to hide about the DEI policies, go through the review and [21:10] complain. [21:11] Disney, by the way, Disney has said, we're going to comply. [21:13] Disney has said, we're going to comply. [21:14] You're right, chairman. [21:15] We're going to comply. [21:15] If you just divorce this moment from all the other moments in the last eight months, maybe [21:22] you might believe him. [21:23] But there's a lot of history here that points to targeting of ABC over viewpoints that they [21:29] disagree with on their broadcast. [21:30] Yeah, and there's real issues about, you know, the equal time rule, other elements like [21:36] that. [21:38] I don't like the president jawboning. [21:40] I especially don't like the president jawboning when it is keeping Jimmy Kimmel. [21:43] It's the same dynamic that we see with interest rates. [21:46] The more he says we should lower interest rates, you know, the independence of the Fed [21:49] keeps them the same, even when they would probably would have lowered them absent that. [21:54] Jimmy Kimmel would probably be fired if Donald Trump, you know, stopped talking about [21:57] him because I swear to God, this is the only time I ever hear about Jimmy Kimmel. [22:00] I've never heard somebody say, hey, you know what? [22:02] Jimmy Kimmel had a funny joke the other day. [22:04] I've never, ever, ever heard anyone say that. [22:07] I'm tired. [22:08] I'm tired of Jimmy Kimmel. [22:10] Let him fade off into obscurity. [22:11] Let him let his memory be the man show, which somehow has not resulted in his cancellation [22:16] 20 years later. [22:18] Just let him go. [22:19] So, I mean, do you think you think that this is the FCC trying to execute on Trump's [22:26] desire to have Jimmy Kimmel punished? [22:30] I mean, I honestly don't know. [22:31] I mean, there are normal things that occur in the course of reviewing the license. [22:35] Obviously, the rhetoric around this goes above and beyond that. [22:39] If there's any actual action taken, it goes above and beyond that. [22:43] I just, as somebody who actually appreciates the First Amendment, I think the idea of, like, [22:47] allowing Jimmy Kimmel to be a martyr for the First Amendment is something that sickens me. [22:50] Scott? [22:50] Yeah, I did speak to Brendan Carr, too, the other day about this issue, and, you know, [22:55] he had explained that they were already in this early review process, that there is some [22:59] sort of DEI review going on with the licenses. [23:02] It's been going on over time. [23:04] They do have the ability to call them in for an early review. [23:06] I'm not totally steeped in all the bureaucratic processes there. [23:10] But, you know, there's a legitimate thing that the FCC does. [23:13] On the Kimmel piece, I've got to say, I still don't know what the joke is. [23:19] He's not funny. [23:21] Expectant widow. [23:22] I mean, they keep trying to explain that this was a joke, and how can we go after people [23:27] who are just telling jokes? [23:28] I've yet to hear anybody explain to me what's the joke. [23:31] It's not common and illegal again. [23:32] Does it matter whether it was a joke or not? [23:35] Well, they're saying it's a joke. [23:36] Because I don't know that speech has a joke clause. [23:39] And maybe it doesn't, but for them to then, and he's been pretty defensive about it the [23:43] last couple of nights, but for them to say, oh, we're just out here telling jokes, I wish [23:47] somebody could explain to me what is the joke about wish casting the death of the president [23:52] of the United States or anybody else? [23:54] Well, I have two questions for you. [23:56] I mean, one would be, again, it doesn't really matter whether it was a joke or not. [24:02] But secondly, I'm just going to play this, because this is Trump talking at the White House [24:08] on Tuesday about his marriage to Melania. [24:11] Listen. [24:12] And they were married for 63 years. [24:19] And, excuse me, if you don't mind, that's a record we won't be able to match, darling. [24:25] I'm sorry. [24:26] Just not going to work out that way. [24:28] We'll do well, but we're not going to do that well. [24:31] 63 years. [24:35] That was a joke. [24:36] I don't think he's lived to 120. [24:38] That was a joke. [24:38] He is 80. [24:39] He's much younger. [24:40] He's not going to be around forever. [24:42] Kimmel's problem is he's not very funny. [24:44] Kimmel says that that's the point that he was trying to make. [24:46] The morning of, well, the morning of Charlie Kirk's death or the night after, he revealed [24:55] his true, I think, gutter instinct when it comes to Trump. [25:00] He hates Trump so much, Kimmel, that he could, you know, use that platform. [25:04] And he hates, you know, Charlie Kirk's death, his murder on live television, that body was [25:14] still unburied when Kimmel was making jokes. [25:17] And it was so insensitive. [25:19] It doesn't matter if it's sensitive. [25:20] It's the First Amendment. [25:22] It doesn't matter if it's insensitive. [25:24] It doesn't matter if it's funny. [25:25] It's the First Amendment. [25:26] But Trump has said so many insensitive things. [25:27] Yes, but you also can't say profanity on FCC-regulated, you know, channels. [25:33] No, I'm saying there are limitations that are imposed because they're using public spectrum. [25:37] With fines. [25:37] You get fines for those things. [25:39] But you don't get attacked by the president. [25:40] Well, this really just shows is that... [25:42] He can go on a podcast and say all these things. [25:43] He can have a subtext and say all these things. [25:44] He can also say it on public broadcasting. [25:46] Over the past few years, if you even so much as hint that Donald Trump is a fascist, [25:51] Republicans lose their temper, as they so often do. [25:54] Or you put it into a manifesto after you try to assassinate him because you believe that [25:58] he's a fascist and you think that justifies his assassination. [26:01] No, you guys have said that we shouldn't even call Donald Trump a fascist. [26:03] Stochastic terrorism, that's the phrase that you say. [26:04] Then Donald Trump gets into office, he tries to remove comedians from the airwaves, and you [26:08] guys run defense for it. [26:09] Donald Trump tries to make a list of his political opponents that he wants to lock up, like, I [26:14] don't know, Comey, Letitia James. [26:15] He's talking about... [26:16] Dude, I impeached the guy and I'm sitting here talking about him. [26:18] Okay, then... [26:19] Like, you see me in the concentration camps right now. [26:22] No, I'm referring to other... [26:23] You're not in a fascist republic. [26:24] Wait, do you not think he has fascistic tendencies? [26:25] Do you not think that's trying to take... [26:26] I don't think using the term fascist is so fraught. [26:29] No, I don't. [26:30] Donald Trump is taking comedians off the air. [26:32] I don't think it's not a total fascist. [26:33] You're talking about a political, psychological conclusion. [26:35] Hang on, hang on, hang on. [26:36] Well, I'll only interject to say this because we've played it before on the show, but Trump has repeatedly [26:42] called his political opponents fascists, communists, et cetera, et cetera. [26:46] So if, again, if the word fascist in and of itself is so beyond the line, Trump has crossed that line. [26:53] Additionally... [26:53] He has crossed that line. [26:53] It's simplistic rather than beyond the line. [26:56] Listen, my point is that if you're going to use it as an argument to say that Democrats have gone too far, [27:02] the president has gone just as far. [27:05] But hold on, this isn't just... [27:06] I don't disagree with that. [27:07] ...in your rhetoric, it deserves some reflection and concern. [27:10] It's not just about Kimmel. [27:11] Last night, we saw in Texas courts that the case for Alex Jones and Sandy Hook families, [27:16] which has been going on for more than eight years, [27:18] these families have been tortured by this man for over a decade, [27:22] he somehow found a legal loophole made just for him. [27:26] Even lawyers don't totally understand what's happening here. [27:28] And if you're watching this and you're in Texas, you should call your representative [27:32] and ask what the hell is happening with that deal. [27:34] This goes to speech all across the spectrum, [27:38] except for the people that align with the most extreme parts of the right. [27:43] Do you have a vested interest in that case? [27:45] Sorry? [27:45] Do you have a vested interest in the outcome? [27:46] Yeah, my partner owns the onion, but also, do you not want the Sandy Hook families to get their fair share? [27:51] No, I do, I do. [27:52] Because right now, this is the only deal... [27:53] I'm just saying, like, there are other externalities there when it comes to that. [27:57] I like disclosure. [27:59] I like honesty. [27:59] Yes, that's fair. [28:00] And I think the Sandy Hook families deserve every honesty. [28:02] Absolutely. [28:03] All right. [28:03] Absolutely. [28:04] The other moment that a lot of people accused the president of having thin skin about [28:08] was how he reacted to Jimmy Kimmel's joke from last week. [28:13] And here's Joe Rogan criticizing the president for just all that has transpired after that alleged joke. [28:23] Adam Kroll had a really good point. [28:25] He said that joke, he said that joke on a Thursday. [28:27] On Friday, nobody gave a s**t. [28:30] Who? [28:30] Who? [28:30] What? [28:30] Kimmel. [28:32] He said a joke about Melania. [28:33] He made his own mock White House press correspondence dinner. [28:36] Right. [28:36] And he said Melania has the glow of a woman who's recently widowed. [28:40] Okay. [28:41] Just does it. [28:42] It's an old guy joke. [28:43] Like he's going to die soon. [28:44] Yeah. [28:44] It could be. [28:45] Or an assassination joke if you want to take it that way. [28:47] But he is old. [28:48] Wait, after the attempt? [28:50] No, before. [28:50] Before. [28:51] So it's on Thursday. [28:52] And this is Carolla's point. [28:53] That's a really good point. [28:54] He said no one gave a s**t on Friday. [28:55] It came out on Thursday. [28:57] No one cared on Friday. [28:58] No one cared on Saturday until Saturday night when the assassination attempt. [29:02] And then all of a sudden everyone's blaming Kimmel. [29:06] And now it's just been added to this like very tiresome, frankly, longstanding tit for tat between Trump and Kimmel. [29:15] And it just won't, he won't let it go. [29:19] I mean, Kimmel doesn't like him. [29:20] But Trump is the president and he will not let this go. [29:23] Number one, the joke was in poor taste. [29:26] Number two, it's a shame that Jimmy Kimmel can't stand up and apologize for a joke that was in poor taste. [29:32] And third, Adam Carolla makes a decent point that was referenced by Joe Rogan there. [29:38] But no one cared on Thursday because the people who watch Jimmy Kimmel agree with his politics and they probably thought it was a hilarious joke. [29:47] The people who would call him out for being distasteful don't actually watch his program. [29:53] That's why no one said anything until after the fact. [29:57] You know, Pete, can you tell me one example of Trump ever apologizing for anything? [30:03] Can you tell me one example of Trump? [30:05] I don't know why it matters. [30:06] I mean, Jimmy Kimmel made a joke. [30:08] Are you serious? [30:09] Robert Mueller? [30:11] Robert Mueller? [30:12] Are we going to act like that didn't happen on Twitter? [30:13] Can you give me an example of someone's spouse being told you look like some guy or someone else's husband? [30:19] I mean, the point, the point is, is that... [30:23] Trump made jokes about Paul Pelosi implying all kinds of crazy conspiracies about why he was attacked with a hammer. [30:32] The president did that. [30:33] That actually didn't happen. [30:35] And I would also add, I mean, the president earlier this week made a joke to his wife that she's going to outlive him. [30:46] He made the joke in front of the king. [30:47] But every wife makes that joke. [30:49] I think the joke was unkind and unfunny. [30:52] But why make a federal case out of it? [30:54] This whole city lives in fear of Trump's petty angers. [30:59] The entire Senate, the entire Congress does. [31:02] Everyone in the administration, that's why they have to parrot his lies about the 2020 election or whatever he wants from him to say. [31:07] The entire city lives in fear of it because he makes a federal case out of everything. [31:13] And that's the point. [31:15] I mean, it's like, again, nobody... [31:17] You cannot show me an example of Trump ever apologizing for anything. [31:20] So I just think it's rich when any conservative tries to go and say that someone should apologize for anything. [31:26] The point is that the Republican Party ran on a platform... [31:30] I'm speaking. [31:31] The Republican Party ran on a platform... [31:32] I did it to me, so that's okay. [31:33] ...of having free speech. [31:35] That's what you guys campaigned on. [31:36] You went to all the college campuses all around talking about you stood for free speech. [31:42] Now you have the president of the United States being so much of a snowflake that he cannot handle a joke he doesn't like from Jimmy Kimmel. [31:49] That's ridiculous. [31:50] And Jimmy Kimmel can't be man enough to apologize. [31:53] Your president is not man enough because he never apologized for anything. [31:56] So you think you should just jump in it with him? [31:59] He's your president. [31:59] Rise up to it. [32:00] I know. [32:01] You do use the whole you thing a lot. [32:03] Like, let's be not personal and accusatory about everything. [32:06] Did you vote for him? [32:07] I didn't, actually. [32:08] Would you like to know that? [32:09] Oh, that's loose to me. [32:09] Breaking news on CNN. [32:10] I've never voted for Donald Trump. [32:12] How about that? [32:12] That's loose to me. [32:13] That's going to be hot to me. [32:15] That's going to be hot to me. [32:15] Yeah, good. [32:16] It'll make it on media-like or whatever. [32:18] You got me there. [32:18] He's your president, too. [32:19] That is just for the record. [32:21] He's the president. [32:22] And your president.