Debate: Is the White House right to blame Democratic rhetoric for violence?

[0:00] It is sort of this uniquely American moment that we have a violent act with a gun, with a person [0:09] who's clearly deranged. Then there's the partisan finger pointing. And now we're kind of back where [0:16] we always are. I mean, is it fair to take this incident, say that it's the Democrats' fault, [0:22] and if you're a Republican, never question or criticize President Trump for his rhetoric? [0:28] Abby, I think that political rhetoric has gotten too coarse across the board. I think that today in [0:37] America, I think there's just simply too much vitriol that's exchanged. But I do think it's [0:42] reality that there's been three assassination attempts on this president's life in the last [0:46] two years. And I think that there has been a heightened amount of rhetoric that's been coming [0:51] out of the left in recent days. And so I think it is appropriate for us to ask everybody to begin [0:57] to bring the coarseness down. Look, I certainly agree with Mark on this. But we also have to keep [1:05] in mind that the president of the United States has been using very divisive rhetoric for a long [1:10] time. But I am hoping that we can have a reset here. I mean, it is bad on both sides. Everyone [1:16] needs to chill and realize that there is more that unites us in this country than divides us. I was very [1:21] happy to see President Trump on Saturday evening when he gave a press conference strike a very [1:26] conciliatory tone. I'm hoping that that will continue. It feels like some of his surrogates [1:31] today have been on TV, very on message in a way that is not helpful. But both sides just need to [1:37] come together and realize the more divisive rhetoric that comes out of the left and the right, the more [1:43] people are going to be in danger. But it's not just rhetoric. It's actually policies. We have a [1:49] president who likes conspicuous cruelty. We saw it in how ICE was operating on the streets. It is why he [1:55] wants to bring back Alcatraz. It is why he wants to bring back firing squads. It is why he was [2:02] delighted with his visit to alligator Alcatraz. And in fact, when a reporter asked him before he [2:08] traveled to Florida, what was the point to make sure that if they tried to get away that they would [2:13] be eaten by alligators. He says, we're going to teach them how to run. And they better not run in a [2:19] straight line. They better run like this. That conspicuous cruelty and wanting to see that. And [2:26] in his first administration saying that he wanted police officers to rough up people that they arrested [2:32] before they even got into jail, got a trial. That lust for that is a whole other thing. We can't keep [2:39] saying like, oh, it's just because people are talking. There are things that are happening that [2:43] we are seeing. And that is a real thing. And that is contributing to a negative environment in this [2:49] country. Is it a both and? I mean, I think they're making the point. There is a lot of violence right [2:56] now. But it is also true that President Trump is the most powerful megaphone, not to mention person, [3:04] in this country. And he himself has a very long history of violent rhetoric. Maximum warfare everywhere, [3:11] all the time. That was said before and after the last person that just tried to kill Donald Trump. [3:18] We're going to have more people try to kill Donald Trump if we don't stop. I just started talking [3:23] about this. I'm quoting Hakeem Jeffries. Let me actually play Hakeem Jeffries in context. Just [3:29] listen to this. Hakeem Jeffries just this April, this month, said we are in an era of maximum warfare [3:38] everywhere, all the time. Donald Trump and Republicans launched this gerrymandering [3:44] war. We are in an era of maximum warfare everywhere, all the time. And we're going to keep the [3:56] pressure on Republicans in every single state in the union to ensure at the end of the day [4:04] that there is a fair national map. Governor Josh Shapiro said heads need to roll within the [4:13] administration. People have been disappeared in the community. American civil rights have been [4:18] violated. None of this is acceptable. Heads do need to roll, certainly within the administration. [4:27] So the reason I stopped you is because there is a difference between using an idiom and a figure of [4:34] speech and calling for violence. Any person who understands the English language knows that. [4:40] And I think that is true of that quote that you just wrote, read of Hakeem Jeffries and the one that [4:46] you've heard from Josh Shapiro. There will be more attacks and there'll be more conservatives that [4:50] would be killed if the Democratic Party doesn't wake up and realize that words have meaning and they [4:55] light the fuse. It has happened to too many people, including Charlie Kirk, a friend of mine. [5:01] You can't sit here and have Joe Biden say that Donald Trump quote is a clear and present danger to [5:06] democracy and then have Syracuse. Is that not true? But he is. The American people don't believe that. [5:12] They elected him again. Do you believe it? I don't believe he's a clear and present danger to this [5:15] country. I think he's a savior for this country. I absolutely do. I absolutely do. I believe that you do. [5:19] And I believe that a lot of Americans do, too. But I think. And calling something what it is, [5:23] it's not an incitement to violence. It is for the people trying to kill Donald Trump. No, no. [5:26] In the manifesto, it said that that is why they were trying to kill Donald Trump. Read their words [5:33] and their manifesto. They will tell you. It is because of what you're saying. It is a very easy [5:36] thing for me to say that a violent person behaving violently is wrong. It is a very easy thing. [5:41] But I'll give him the, I'll light the fuse. I'm sorry, I'll finish. And it is a very easy thing for me to say that [5:46] political violence does not belong in our politics and it is a, it is a sign, it is a sign of an unhealthy [5:53] democracy. But I will never take lessons in civility from this president and this White House when [6:01] they have engaged in the very, in the very same thing. And conservatives did not want to connect [6:10] Donald Trump's rhetoric to Charlottesville. They did not. No, it was the Southern Party Law Center [6:15] that paid for that violence, by the way. We learned that last week. Yeah, I could agree with you. [6:19] They did not, they did not, they did not want to connect him to January 6th and his rhetoric and [6:25] all the things that he said around January 6th to that violence. They did not get upset with him [6:30] when he pardoned all of the January 6th rioters. They did not. I'm sorry. No, no, no. What I'm trying to say [6:38] to understand is that hypocrisy does not feel good to Americans and they reject it. Hold on. I go back to the court here. [6:44] Let me just say, let me just say, Ben, nobody here has justified the attempts against President Trump's [6:49] life or anybody's life. There's no polling data that's out that say that there's about 20% of [6:54] young Democrats in this country that think political violence is acceptable. Could that be because [6:58] we have normalized demonizing the sitting president of the United States of America and calling him [7:03] Adolf Hitler or saying he's a threat to democracy or saying that he's an evil man? [7:07] Or saying, again, I go back. Did he take it back? [7:11] Yes, yes. He's got something out of it. [7:13] He realized, oh wait, the guy's not Adolf Hitler and I absolutely like him. He works with it. [7:16] If I don't have a payoff out of it, I will take it back too. [7:19] This is why they will never stop trying to kill Donald Trump because there is no bullet that can be shot at him [7:24] that somehow is not justified by the left saying, well, somehow it's Donald Trump's fault. [7:28] Well, look, I'll say this until I'm blue in the face. [7:32] They are going to try to kill him forever if y'all keep this up. [7:35] I will say this until I'm blue in the face. No one at this table has justified any violence against President Trump. [7:42] And so I think that making those generalizations, no, with all due respect, [7:46] making those kinds of generalizations only coarsens the dialogue that we're trying to have. [7:51] And look, if your argument is that. [7:55] If your argument is that the totality of the circumstances are simply what is being said about Donald Trump, [8:04] that Donald Trump is a threat to democracy, whatever. [8:06] Let me just play this. This is Caroline Levitt. [8:08] She's accusing Democrats of what you're accusing them of. [8:10] And then listen to the rest of this. [8:13] Senator Elizabeth Warren, President Trump is making the country look like a, quote, fascist state. [8:21] Senator Adam Schiff saying President Trump using a dictator playbook. [8:25] Senator Ed Markey calling President Trump a dictator, saying that this administration's actions are authoritarianism on steroids. [8:33] We're living in a fascist state. It all comes out of the White House. [8:37] Crooked Joe Biden, the worst president in the history of our country. [8:40] There's a radical left, Marxist, communist, fascist. [8:44] She's a Marxist. She's a fascist. [8:47] Comrade Kamala Harris. [8:49] So, look, the point is that it's not that Donald Trump is responsible for violence against those people. [8:57] The point is, is that it's not enough to explain the moment that we are in. [9:02] It's just, did he call her a fascist? Did she call him a fascist? [9:06] Because that is happening on both sides of the debate. [9:09] There is more that is contributing to where we are as a country. [9:12] And it is bad. It is unquestionably bad. [9:16] And if we fail to actually address the root causes, we are going nowhere. [9:20] We're not resolving this. [9:21] I would say this, though. If we want to bring the country together, since Donald Trump was actually shot, has he toned down his rhetoric or has he raised the rhetoric? [9:30] It has been 72. [9:30] It has definitely toned down from 2016 to 2020. [9:34] It has been 48 hours. [9:35] No, no, I said the first time when he was shot in the air. [9:37] Has his rhetoric gone up or down? [9:39] I agree with you. [9:40] In 16, 17, 18, 19, and 20, he was way more in your face. [9:44] You look at a guy that was shot at again the other night. [9:46] His rhetoric in general? [9:46] And he went much calmer. [9:49] Much calmer. [9:50] And yet you still say, well, this is somehow Donald Trump's fault. [9:52] We have more on this topic because there's more on this topic. [9:57] But to answer your question, has Donald Trump's behavior changed? [10:01] What should you say the other night differently? [10:03] This is to Juliette's point, it's not any one particular moment, it is the totality of circumstances. [10:07] But I also think maybe if we could just sort of switch the conversation, just look going forward. [10:11] And I just, does anyone at this table believe that Trump can lead, because he is the leader of the United States, towards a less violent rhetoric?