Debate: Has Trump's redistricting push backfired?

[0:00] Another legal hurdle tonight after Virginia voters approved a congressional map that gives [0:04] Democrats the edge in the upcoming midterm elections. A judge just blocked the state [0:09] from certifying last night's redistricting results. He cited multiple reasons, including [0:13] what he calls misleading language on the ballot and that the legislature did not follow its own [0:18] rules for passing the referendum. The Virginia Supreme Court, though, will ultimately decide [0:23] the issue in the coming weeks. In the meantime, President Trump and MAGA are melting down. [0:28] Trump baselessly claimed that the election was rigged and blamed mail-in ballots, while Ari Fleischer, [0:35] who's usually pretty friendly to Trump and very friendly to Republicans, says, [0:39] I should also point out that the GOP will now lose net seats across the country. [0:44] If you're going to pick a fight, at least win it. The other side will always fight back. [0:48] All of this was foreseeable and avoidable. We should not have started the fight. [0:52] Cher, Michael, you're a Virginian. Yeah. I mean, look, it's kind of unfortunate. I mean, [0:57] history is on the side of Democrats. We already know that the party of the president typically loses [1:02] seats in the House. You look at the president's approval ratings mathematically. That also has [1:07] implications in terms of what that net loss could be. So the question, if you're a strategist on the [1:12] Republican side, is how do you diminish what those losses potentially are? And the gerrymandering, [1:17] which is pretty unprecedented, makes it really, really difficult to factor in multiple variables [1:21] to see, well, will Dems have a 25-seat, 30-seat loss, or will it be slightly less? I think it [1:27] may be slightly less. You still have the Supreme Court and their ruling coming soon on Section 2 of [1:32] the voting rights. That could have serious implications, particularly in a lot of Southern [1:35] states. So I don't really know how this is going to play out, Abby. But should they have done it is the [1:39] question. No, I don't think so. I think reducing the incentive to compromise is just not good for the [1:44] country. No one wins here in the long run, neither side. [1:47] Yes. Go ahead. No, I just feel like they took one of the most balanced places in the country, [1:52] and they just totally disenfranchised Republicans. So, you know, I personally, what? Do you disagree? [1:58] Are you talking about Virginia? Yes, it's a perfect state. What about Texas? [2:01] I don't agree. I don't agree with that either. Michael and I were discussing the agreement. [2:05] Illinois, New York. Gerrymandering is a problem. A bipartisan problem. [2:08] Can I ask a question? When Texas was happening, you were not hearing Republicans say that this was a [2:15] problem for our democracy. I agree with you. And I think that Republicans didn't stand up to Donald [2:20] Trump either. And Republicans in Texas and across the country had the opportunity to say no to Donald [2:26] Trump. But for some reason, they do not have a spine to stick up to him. And nobody wanted to tell him [2:32] no. And now we're in the situation where I agree with you. We shouldn't be doing this anywhere. But [2:37] Donald Trump put us in this position. And it, frankly, is because no one would tell him no. [2:42] And now Republicans are saying, oh, but our democracy, where are we then? [2:46] But Sochi, I think the issue with Virginia, though, after Texas, California passed their [2:51] referendum and it pretty much equaled everything out. I think the issue here with Virginia is [2:55] that they're only leaving one Republican congressional district. Now, of the five districts that [2:59] Texas will get, they're not Republicans, that is. Went all five of them. Hell, we'll be lucky [3:03] if we went two out of the five. More than likely, Democrats will win three because they're [3:07] mostly in Hispanic areas. So this is backfiring in terms of expectations. [3:11] Two parts of that are important. One, it's not just California and Texas evening themselves out. [3:17] Other states, sure, but many have declined. [3:18] There are, yeah, many have declined. Thank God, yeah. [3:20] But other states are actively in moving to give Republicans an advantage. So now with Virginia, [3:28] we're actually in a more even place where the advantage is probably neutralized. [3:32] Well, Dems will have about a nine-seat advantage, though, Abby. [3:34] No, no, no, no. According to a lot of the people who look very closely at all these different [3:41] districts, when you add up all the Republican changes and all the Democratic changes, now [3:46] we're virtually at net zero in terms of partisan advantage at the district level. [3:51] But that's not including your other point, which is that some of these districts are not [3:57] as competitive or as non-competitive as Republicans would like. And Hakeem Jeffries, [4:03] the speaker or the, excuse me, the Democratic leader, he issued a warning to Florida, [4:11] specifically to Ron DeSantis. And here's Jeffries and DeSantis responding. [4:15] Our message to Florida Republicans is F around and find out. The Republicans are [4:24] dummimandering their way into the minority before a single vote is cast because they started this war [4:31] and we're going to finish it. Please be my guest. I will pay for you to come down to Florida and [4:37] campaign. I'll put you up in the Florida governor's mansion. We'll take you fishing. We'll do all this [4:43] stuff. There's nothing that could be better for Republicans in Florida than to see Jeffries, [4:50] Hakeem Jeffries, everywhere around this state. This is not going to be everywhere, though, [4:57] because here's Jeffries is talking about Mario Diaz-Ballard, Maria Elvira Salazar, [5:02] Carlos Jimenez, Kat McCamek. These are these are Republicans who are some of them in Southern [5:07] Florida districts that are endangered now. It is going to be a tricky landscape in some parts of Florida. [5:13] It is in a few places. And Jeffries is smart. He knows he knows the districts. He's not going to [5:18] just go insert himself in places where he doesn't need to be. And frankly, this whole debate is really [5:22] stupid between Jeffries and DeSantis. But the true problem here is that we didn't get to this before [5:29] is that the Democrats in California and in Virginia put the question to the voters. Sure. And they didn't [5:35] do that in Texas. They're not planning on doing that in Florida. They didn't do that in Missouri or Ohio [5:39] either. Republicans decided, we want to change the rule. The net result is the same, though, Keith. [5:43] But Republicans decided that they didn't believe in the voters. They chose to make a decision to- [5:48] That's a process. You're making a process argument. It's a process argument. [5:51] Let's do what I have to say. Your party, people in your party, governors chose to ignore the will of [5:56] the voters because Donald Trump told them to do so. The Democrats at least trusted the voters [6:00] enough to go to them in California and in Virginia and say, please tell us, do you support this or not? [6:06] Keith, okay. It is about process. One, it is about process. Let's not be intellectually lazy here. [6:14] It is about process. And then number two, the net result is the same damn thing, Keith. [6:19] You just said a moment. You just said a moment. You're making an emotional argument over the same [6:23] thing, man. Don't accuse me of being emotional just because you disagree with everything I said. [6:26] It's not that I disagree with what you're saying. The net result is the same. [6:30] Did anyone notice how narrow the margin was? It's not good if it's coming from your side [6:35] or my side. The net result is the same. I'm not sure. [6:37] Go ahead with your point. Did anyone notice how Spanberger barely eked out this victory in [6:44] Virginia when everyone was, it should have been double digits. What was it, a 3%? [6:50] Should it have been double digits? It was close. [6:52] The way they were talking about it, it was going to be, it was going to be a nine to one. [6:56] I do think that this is the point that people like Ari Fleischer and Eric Erickson are making [7:02] is that the downside of a strategy like this that was started by Republicans and continued [7:09] by Democrats is that it doesn't matter how squeaky the win was. A win is a win and power [7:15] is power. And that's what's going to dominate in our politics now. And that's going to lead [7:19] us down potentially very dangerous. I agree, Abby. I think this is a bipartisan [7:24] issue. I think that's something we can't all agree on. What I just dislike is that the Democrats [7:28] are acting like they're so self-righteous when it comes to gerrymandering. When both sides [7:32] are doing it, both sides, we need to intervene because like you just said, this is going to [7:36] end up very, very ugly. This is a war that both sides are trying to win against one another [7:40] at the expense of the voters. We are the losers in the end. [7:43] Yeah. And I would, to add to, we're all talking about how the voters should decide, [7:47] et cetera. The only reason why we're in this in the first place is because Donald Trump [7:51] did not think that we were going to win the midterm elections. He did not want the voters [7:55] to have their say in the midterm elections. What he wanted was to add seats so that he could, [8:02] Bennett and Republicans could benefit from the midterm so he wouldn't have accountability. [8:06] And that is a problem. And that's a conversation that we should be having because presidents [8:10] moving forward are going to feel like they can do the exact same thing that Donald Trump did [8:15] and set us off into a war in the midterm, before a census. And I think you're going to, [8:21] he has set a terrible precedent for our country moving forward. [8:24] Wow. Hot take.