Debate: Can you question the war and still be a patriot?

[0:00] In the very first hearing on this war, where lawmakers can ask legitimate questions of the [0:05] Pentagon, instead of getting a sober and fact-finding scene, it became a circus of shouting, insults, [0:11] and deflections, mostly from Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. And in one instance, like he's [0:17] done with the press, he's questioning the patriotism of anyone who dares to ask questions [0:22] about the war or anyone who criticizes it. The biggest challenge, the biggest adversary we face [0:29] at this point are the reckless, feckless, and defeatist words of congressional Democrats [0:36] and some Republicans. The president has got himself in America stuck in the quagmire of [0:41] another war in the Middle East. He's desperately trying to extricate himself from his own mistakes. [0:47] My generation served in a quagmire in Iraq and Afghanistan. The way you stain the troops when [0:52] you tell them two months in, two months in, Congressman, you should know better. Shame on [0:57] you. Calling this a quagmire two months in. The effort, what they've undertaken, what they've [1:02] succeeded, the success on the battlefield that could create strategic opportunities, the courage [1:06] of a president to confront a nuclear Iran, and you call it a quagmire, handing propaganda to our [1:12] enemies? Shame on you for that statement. And statements like that are reckless to our troops. [1:16] Don't say, I support the troops on one hand, and then a two-month mission is a quagmire. Who are you [1:21] cheering for here? Who are you pulling for? Our troops are doing incredible work. [1:24] So that was the tone in a nutshell over on Capitol Hill. And Geraldo, I mean, I think one of the [1:31] problems with what Pete Hegseth is saying is that Americans very recently have been in a place [1:37] where they've been told, support this war effort because it's the patriotic thing to do, only to [1:43] find out that they were lied to about how they got into the war, only to find out that that war effort [1:47] was going to last decades. And some of those very troops were asking, why were they there? What was the [1:54] endgame? Isn't it the patriotic thing to ask questions? [1:57] Well, yes, unless you're in uniform in combat and it's a violation of the chain of command. [2:06] I think that with Pete's case, the frustration comes because people were saying that the War Powers [2:12] Act and the various congressional resolutions over the years indicated very strongly that the [2:20] president of the United States had the ability, the constitutional right to be commander in chief [2:25] of our armed forces and to wage a conflict like this if he felt it necessary for the, or he or she [2:32] feels it necessary for the national defense of the country. So I don't think that what Pete did, [2:39] aside from being maybe overwrought in his dramatic presentation, playing Othello there, just [2:45] kind of silly, maybe. But there's real tension, though, between the commander in chief of the [2:53] armed forces of the United States and the Congress, which has the constitutional right to declare war. [2:59] So you have this tension constantly. And Pete mentioned Afghanistan and Vietnam and Iraq. And yes, [3:06] it is quagmire in the modern day because we don't do total war anymore. But his frustration, I think, [3:13] is real over the fact that he feels in that setting, in the setting of Congress, that he's among [3:19] enemies, not friends. [3:20] But he's frustrated that people are questioning the war. But the polls show that it's pretty [3:27] widespread. It's not like a niche thing just among Democrats on Capitol Hill. Those conflicts you [3:34] mentioned, the Iran war is as unpopular as Vietnam, as Iraq. And on top of that, what I thought was [3:42] fascinating, when you ask Americans, when you consider all the costs and benefits of this [3:47] conflict, is it worth it? Overall, just 25% of Americans say that it's worth it. And among [3:54] Republicans, where generally you get a lot of support for what President Trump is doing, [3:59] only 58%. So fewer than 60% of Republicans say it's worth it. This is more widespread than just [4:05] Democrats on Capitol Hill. [4:07] It's definitely more widespread than just Democrats on Capitol Hill or across the country. It's also [4:12] independence that you're seeing move towards their discomfort with the war. And I think part of it is [4:19] not only that we don't have a defined mission, we don't know when we're going to actually leave and pull [4:25] ourselves out of this war, but it's also when our price is going to go down. And I'm sure we'll talk about [4:29] how high gas prices are for Americans around the country. But I think that is sitting very uncomfortably [4:34] with people as they go to the pump. I mean, that is something that you can see every single day [4:38] ticking upwards. And the fact that someone is driving by their gas station every single day and [4:42] seeing that number continue to rise and rise. And you're wondering from this administration, [4:46] when we're going to get clarity about when this ends and they still can't give it. I think that's [4:52] why you're seeing the polling sink for Republicans and particularly Donald Trump, because people are [4:57] placing blame on him for not laying out the case for why we went in in the first place to Iran, [5:03] but also understanding when we get out. So I don't know that, you know, you played the clip of [5:08] Congressman Garamendi questioning Pete Hegseth and saying it's a quagmire. I don't know if we're [5:13] there yet, but we're certainly at a place where when does this end? Even if the administration likes [5:18] to play a creative game with the law and interpretation, I don't think we have an [5:22] understanding of how this ends and when. I mean, Pete, is it smart for them to say that anybody who [5:27] criticizes what they're doing in Iran is unpatriotic? Is that a smart political strategy? [5:33] Well, there is a line between asking questions and oversight on the part of Congress and the [5:39] legislative branch and these Democrat members of Congress calling it a quagmire, calling it a [5:45] destructive and disastrous war, saying that it is a forever war. Within hours, within days of this [5:52] conflict starting, they were already saying it was a forever war. So I understand Secretary Hegseth's [5:58] frustration at some of the rhetoric that is being used. Questions can be genuine. They can get to [6:04] the bottom of what's happening, but they're sitting there making it a partisan spectacle. And look, [6:10] he's not perfect either. The secretary of defense got defensive and personal in some of his responses [6:17] and lobbing barbs back across to the dais. But, you know, I look at this and the polling also, [6:24] the Washington Post had a poll that showed 79% of Republicans said it was the right decision. [6:29] So there's been all this talk about erosion among the Republican base, the MAGA base, but they still [6:35] stand with President Trump. They believe it was the right decision. I would also point out that the [6:41] very nature of conflict is opaque. That is just the way conflict goes. [6:47] And there's a balancing act between disclosure and concealment. And that is one that every [6:54] administration has to balance. And so in some respects, the public, unless there is a full [7:00] fledged PR campaign, which there could have been, maybe should have been, but you also throw away [7:05] the element of surprise. You also harm operational security. [7:10] And he asked, I mean, he laid out, even if you disagreed with the war in Iraq, and why we went [7:16] in for the mission set that we did, he still went and laid out the case to the American people. [7:21] And it didn't turn out that great. [7:21] Well, I mean, do you think it's turning out that great right now? [7:24] If you're giving the enemy all that lead-up time to prepare for an attack. [7:26] But I don't think that made it. That was not the thing. [7:28] That was not the reason. [7:29] In this case, I do believe that that was not the thing that made the difference. [7:32] The problem with those wars was that we weren't going to be able to rebuild. [7:36] The element of surprise is what we needed. And sometimes, well, the people are certainly [7:40] surprised by their gas prices. [7:41] I do think both conflicts, if there is any similarity between both conflicts, [7:48] it's in that the objective, which in the case of Iraq was nation building, which could not be [7:54] achieved. And the objective here, which in the case of Iran is sort of a rehabilitation of the [8:01] nation, perhaps. They have no nuclear weapons. They stop funding terrorism. It's unclear if that's [8:06] going to be achieved either. That's the only similarities between the two things. [8:09] No, the greatest similarity is that both of these conflicts were built on lies. [8:14] We had a functioning nuclear deal with Iran. Barack Obama is probably the first person to [8:19] ever earn his Nobel Peace Prize a few years after he got it. But many nations came together to form [8:25] this nuclear deal with Iran. And our military swore up and down for years that Iran was complying with [8:32] the deal up until the moment Donald Trump tore it up. So if you're going to come out here and say, [8:36] we have to do this war because we can't let them get a nuke after this is the same team that tore up [8:42] the deal, keeping them from getting a nuke, they're essentially saying, you have to believe our military [8:45] was lying for years when they maintained. You want to bet on that? You want to bet? What if you're wrong? [8:51] And what if Iran is really, as the president indicated, on the verge of creating a shortcut to [9:00] a nuclear weapon? Well, imagine the surprise of all the Republicans who believed him for years when he [9:04] said, no more wars, no more wars. He swore up and down. Kamala Harris would do this. He represents a lie. [9:10] And again, I would say the one thing that to answer Geraldo's question, I mean, we don't have a lot [9:22] of actual hard evidence about what of that, about this one way or another. We do have the sworn [9:27] congressional testimony of the director of national intelligence who said that after we bombed their [9:32] facilities last summer, they had made no efforts to reconstitute their nuclear program. Does the [9:37] president just get to say whatever he wants and we just have to say, we trust you? I think the [9:42] American, we live in a democracy. I think the American people deserve the right to ask questions, [9:48] to demand evidence, to demand proof. And the reason they deserve that right is because they have been [9:53] lied to before. And you can't just say, trust me, okay? You can't just say, trust me. [10:00] Do the American people have the right to tell the commander in chief how to wage what he perceives [10:06] to be a war against the military? They have to ask. Foreign policy should not be dictated on polling. [10:11] Wait, hold on. This is taxpayer dollars. This is our money being spent on munitions to go and bomb Iran. [10:19] Absolutely. I think the American people have a right to at least be explained why we're in this. [10:24] But we also have a right to free speech and to petition the government for address of grievances. [10:28] And there is no reason for anyone to believe anything these men say ever. [10:34] And it's also the government's right to withhold information in the interest of national security. [10:38] Trump has already come out and said he wants the oil. There is no reason to take them at face value. [10:43] And Abby, you're one of the best cable news hosts in the world. You're brilliant. You're so great at [10:48] this. But I would never hire you to a cabinet position overseeing the Pentagon. And you're a good cable news host. [10:53] Thank you. Thank you.