Deaths of Americans raise questions about U.S. operations against cartels in Mexico

[0:00] An investigation is underway after four officials, including two Americans, were killed in a car [0:05] crash in Mexico. It happened in the state of Chihuahua, just south of the U.S.-Mexico border. [0:11] It's being called an accident by the local government, but happened after a special [0:15] operation to destroy drug labs in a mountainous part of the state. It's been widely reported that [0:20] the two Americans were CIA officers. Now the search for answers, including from Mexico's [0:26] president, Claudia Scheinbaum, who says the Mexico federal government was not aware that U.S. [0:31] officials would be involved in the operation. This has to be clarified. The foreign ministry [0:38] sent a letter to the U.S. ambassador requesting that all information be provided, saying that [0:43] this is not a part of the security protocol we have agreed upon, nor the understanding we have [0:49] with them, and asking that all information be provided. It is an issue of national security [0:54] and sovereignty, so what is happening is not a minor matter. For a perspective on this, [1:00] we're joined now by John Feely. He's a former U.S. ambassador to Panama with a lengthy diplomatic [1:04] career in Latin America. He's now chief executive of the Center for Media Integrity of the Americas. [1:10] Good to see you. Thanks for being here. It's a real pleasure. So before we get to what [1:13] President Scheinbaum said there, the circumstances of the deaths here remain a little bit unclear, [1:17] but why would U.S. officials, and in particular CIA officials, be involved in an operation like [1:23] this? Is that unusual? First of all, I can't confirm they were CIA officials, but I was the [1:29] chief, the deputy chief of mission in Mexico as far back as 2009. The United States and Mexico have [1:36] always collaborated. That collaboration goes up and down, and there are peaks and valleys, [1:41] usually driven by politics. But you have to understand, Amna, that the training and expertise [1:47] that United States agencies, whether it's in the CIA, the DEA, HSI, DHS, it is not all stuff that can [1:56] be transmitted in a classroom. There's a lot of in-the-field work that's done. But the important [2:02] point, and I believe it's the point here, is that it's always done in coordination with the Mexicans. [2:07] It is never done unilaterally. I want to point out, President Scheinbaum has consistently resisted [2:13] pressure from the Trump administration to deploy U.S. forces to try to counter some of these drug [2:18] cartels. She's saying American boots on the ground would violate Mexico's sovereignty. What do you [2:23] make of the way she is reacting to this news, to these deaths? And also, what did you see on the [2:28] ground? You've just come from Mexico yourself. Exactly. And I think there's a really clear [2:33] dichotomy between what you're seeing. What President Scheinbaum is undeniably reacting to [2:38] is the Mexican political class's long-held suspicion that the United States is always [2:44] going to violate Mexico's sovereignty, that they're going to do something behind their back. I used to [2:48] call it the syndrome of the ambush. They always thought, you know, yeah, the Americans are here, [2:54] but they're going to do something unilateral. And on the other side, the Americans always show up and [2:58] say, which one of these guys is corrupt? In this case, she feels that she has to respond to those [3:05] prickly concerns about sovereignty. But I got to tell you, I was just there. I don't see it reflected [3:10] in the population, which wants the Mexicans and the Americans to collaborate on the organized crime [3:17] problem. You don't worry that this could lead to further mistrust, this news of CIA potentially [3:22] officials being involved in this. This could somehow hamper joint operations in the future? [3:27] Well, let's be honest. I think President Trump's intemperate rhetoric, to put it very diplomatically, [3:32] has done more to hurt the cause. I think one of the things you see going on here is that there [3:39] is excellent cooperation at the operational level. There is dysfunctional political rhetoric at times, [3:47] and it clouds it. So my hope is that there will be an understanding by both sides at a political [3:52] level that the American people and the Mexican people want this kind of collaboration to go on. [3:58] What about from the cartels? I mean, when the drug lord Al Mencho was killed earlier this year, [4:02] that set off a firestorm of violence. Do you worry we could see a similar wave of violence as a [4:07] result of this operation? [4:08] Amna, violence in Mexico related to cartels is always episodic. It goes up, it goes down, [4:14] it moves from plaza to plaza, meaning region to region, wherever the cartels are fighting one [4:19] another or the government comes in to fight the cartels. I think that until Mexico and the United [4:25] States are able to genuinely collaborate to manage, nobody solves the drug problem, [4:30] but to manage the organized crime, the guns flowing from north to south, you're going to [4:36] see continuing violence. [4:37] We have about a minute or so left, but I want to ask you to step back and tell me how you look [4:41] at Claudia Scheinbaum and her leadership, the way that she has navigated the relationship with [4:46] President Trump between two nations in which tensions can sometimes flare. How do you look at it? [4:51] Well, the first thing you have to keep in mind is that she's significantly popular in her own [4:55] country. That's something every president looks for. I think she's very cagey. I think she's very [5:01] astute. I think that being somebody who is trained as a scientist, who speaks very good English, [5:07] I think she kind of took the measure of Donald Trump early, realized that this was somebody who [5:13] was asymmetrically far more powerful than she is or her government is, and figured, [5:17] I'm going to just do what I need to do to keep both my domestic concerns on side and him on side. [5:25] And she's been clear, unilateral attacks into Mexico are a red line and would shut down the [5:31] communication. [5:32] Former U.S. Ambassador to Panama, John Feeley, always great to have you here. Thank you so much. [5:36] Great to be with you. [5:38] Support journalism you trust. Support PBS News. Donate now, or even better, start a monthly contribution today.