Dabo Swinney Opens Up Like Never Before — Full Interview

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: I was a walk-on player, I was a walk-on coach who got the job. We've done the common things in an uncommon way, and that's how we've commanded the attention of the world. If I was a fly on the wall, what would I have seen first time you addressed the team as a head coach? None of y'all signed up for me to be your head coach. If you want to clean your locker out, you can do that. But if you come to practice tonight at 6 o'clock, you better be all in. [00:00:18] Speaker 2: When you're younger and you're coming up, it wasn't always easy. There was adversity. [00:00:21] Speaker 1: Life goes a lot at all of us. At the end of the day, it comes down to the decisions you make. Greatness isn't anybody's destiny, it's your decision. Coach Collins is like, you need to get a master's degree. The last thing I wanted to do, he's like, I need a GA. You start in July. A week into coaching, it was like clarity of life. What's your why? What's the reason you do what you do every day? Yeah, and I think that's a great question. [00:00:41] Speaker 2: Davos Sweeney went from being homeless as a kid to getting fired at Alabama to building one of the greatest dynasties here at Clemson in the history of college football. In this episode, I sit down with Coach to talk about everything in his journey in building this program, but this conversation is not about championships. It's about pressure, leadership, failure, faith, and what it really takes to build a life that lasts and means more than just football. This is Davos Sweeney. Let's go talk to Coach. There's a lot of equipment in here. You know, it's a big job. Yeah. Yeah. [00:01:15] Speaker 1: A talent, A attitude, that's what we're looking for. [00:01:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, you know A talent wants to get paid. They want... [00:01:21] Speaker 1: A talent, you can find those guys, you got superstars. But if you got A talent and a B attitude, those guys get you fired. Yeah. You'd much rather have B talent, A attitude. That's what that was... That's breaking that down for you right there. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. Then B talent, A attitude guys going to beat them A talent, B attitude dudes. Yeah. Somewhere along the way. Get you fired. [00:01:44] Speaker 2: Coach killers. You take too many of those guys. You're in trouble. So yeah, we just pretend the cameras aren't even here. Okay. Just look directly at me. Just me and you. Just me and you. Yeah. So whatever you want to say, it can be great. Is this... You want to get his mic a little closer, Ethan? Yeah. This is... There's two microphones. Oh, this one. In case one goes out. Yeah. [00:02:03] Speaker 1: Okay. This is like fancy stuff. [00:02:07] Speaker 2: It's the real deal. Yeah. Yeah. The suit matches. Yeah. All right. Yeah. You got to water though too. Cool. Cool, Ethan. Coach, appreciate you having me to Clemson. I had a great time last night with you, seeing the facility. Yeah. And I appreciate the hospitality. It's been great to meet you. And I love what you built here. So much I want to talk to you about. I told you last night. And I've listened to you on podcasts. I've followed your career. And I think one of the cool parts of your journey is when you're younger and you're coming up, it wasn't always easy. I mean, there was adversity in your life and you weren't handed a single thing to get to this point. So I'm curious if that young version of Dabo Sweeney when you were in high school and you went through those struggles and trying to find a place to sleep with your mom and going through that. What would that version... What would Dabo Sweeney back then think of the version of Dabo right now? [00:02:58] Speaker 1: Man, he'd be really proud of him, you know, that he, that he, you know, stayed committed to the things that he believed in, that he, that he did the work. You know, that's one thing that I can always say, man, nobody's ever given me anything. That's for sure. I mean, we have, I mean, life throws a lot at you, all of us, you know, we all have different challenges through life. And, you know, we all face adversity. We all have our own story. We all have our own challenges. It doesn't matter, you know, what type of situation you grow up in and whether it's like mine or, or something different, you know, at the end of the day, it comes down to the decisions you make. You know, I always tell our players that, you know, greatness isn't, isn't anybody's destiny. It's, it's, it's your decision. And, you know, I think he would be proud of the decisions, the cumulative, the accumulation of the decisions that I made along the way. You know, there, there, I made some bad ones too, but made a lot, made a lot more good decisions as far as, you know, what I chose to pursue. The commitment, dedication, sacrifice, you know, I mean, you know, I always stayed focused on what I wanted most in life. And that helped me, that helped me make decisions in the moments that came along the way. And, you know, just, so I think he'd be really proud of them. But again, I look back on that version of me and, man, I just, all I did was do the work. And when I failed, kept going, uh, when I had success, kept going and just, just have enjoyed the journey all along the way. But, um, yeah, I mean, nobody, nobody's ever given me anything. That's, that, that's for sure. I mean, I've had to, I've had to earn my way. Um, I've always worked. I mean, I can't ever remember a time in my life where I didn't work ever. I mean, I, I was cutting grass in the third grade. [00:05:00] Speaker 2: Yeah. [00:05:01] Speaker 1: Literally. [00:05:01] Speaker 2: I mean, where do you think that came from that work ethic? [00:05:04] Speaker 1: Uh, just, just, I mean, my mom and dad were just hardworking people. I mean, my parents married at 18 and my dad was an appliance man and I thought it was the greatest job ever, you know? And I mean, I can't tell you how many times I'd go on service calls and, you know, I've, I've spent a lot of my teens and, you know, hauling washers and dryers and installing them and refrigerators and you name it. And, um, uh, you know, just, but I, I was either cutting grass, um, you know, working with my dad, uh, cleaning gutters. I started a gutter cleaning business at, at, at 14, me and me and my buddy, Les, we got this idea of, you know, nobody wants to climb up there, but man, we'll do it. And we just, we grabbed the ladder and we just started walking around, knocking on people's doors and man, I cleaned gutters till I was 26 years old, literally all through being a GA. [00:05:59] Speaker 2: Really? [00:05:59] Speaker 1: And then I started umpiring when I was about 13 and I umpired, so I was, I was, I always worked, but it was also how I survived. I mean, I mean, I had to, I had to make it happen. I mean, it, it was just, I mean, I had to go to work and so, uh, I was playing three sports and, uh, so if I wasn't on the ball field or in the gym, I was, I was doing something. And so that, that work ethic was just instilled in me at a really, really young age. And that served me well as I went to Tuscaloosa chasing my dream there. And, you know, same thing, you know, they didn't, they didn't come to Pelham and recruit me. You know, they signed two receivers that year. I still don't understand why they didn't come sign me. Uh, but you know, I went anyway and I go down to Tuscalo. Once I found out I could get a Pell grant and a student loan and I learned what that was all about. And I realized I could go to Alabama, um, I'm like, well, that's what I'm going to do. I went down there, rented a little apartment with a buddy and, and, you know, next thing you know, I'm, um, I had to earn my way on the team. And then I earned a scholarship and through my five years of work as a player, Coach Stalins wanted me to be a grad assistant and hired me to be a GA, earned my MBA. And through my three years as a GA, Coach Stalins calls me in his office on Groundhog Day, February 2nd, 1996, and says, hey, I want, I want you to, I want you to coach my, my ends is what he called me. And so he wanted me to coach, I coached the receivers and the tight ends. [00:07:33] Speaker 2: Combined. This episode is brought to you by our partner, USAT. Look, I spent my career around high level football programs, recruiting battles and building businesses. And if I learned one thing is that the people who win usually have two advantages, access to better resources and the ability to move faster. And honestly, the same thing is true when it comes to money, which is why I wanted to partner with USAT for this tour. USAT is a stable coin built for Americans who want their money to actually work for them. 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But, you know, so I just look back at my journey and I just always stayed focused on the work. I've always enjoyed the work. But probably most of all, I would say to that young guy, man, you know, hey, I kept my eyes on the good Lord. I mean, I got saved when I was 16. So February 3rd, 1986, I got saved. And that was the game changer for me. That really is what kind of helped me think differently because I had a lot of dysfunction. I had a lot of problems. I had a lot of challenges. Looking back on my life now, I would be an at-risk kid big time. No education in the home, addiction in the home, divorce, you know, living all over the place. I think I lived in five different places my senior year of high school alone and ended up with my grandmother. But I look back and, man, I got I'm so thankful that I met Christ when I was 16 because that that changed the way I process things that bad stuff still happened. My circumstances were terrible, you know, all those things. But how I looked at it was different. All of a sudden, I just I saw opportunity instead of problems. I just saw it as, hey, God's plan for my life. And if I continue to follow that, hey, he he he's going to see me through. And that gave me power to deal with whatever I had to deal with in the moment along my journey. So it's it's been it's been good. I, you know, I'd say, hey, job well done. You know, there's a few things I probably should have done a little different. But, you know, job well done. I've been married for 32 years. My wife and I met in the first grade. We started going together in the sixth grade at 12 and I broke up with her for a little bit. Then we started dating again in high school. We date all through high school, college, been married 32 years. We've raised three sons. I mean, life has been such a blessing. I'm so thankful, so grateful for my for my family. I'm grateful. My dad became, you know, we had had a lot of challenges with my dad. And but the last probably 15 years of his life, he was my best friend. And, you know, God created a lot of transformation in my family's life, I think, through my journey. And I'm very grateful for that. I'm very thankful for that. And just, you know, so, yeah, that young guy, you know, didn't know what was coming. And I'm still a young guy and I still don't know what's coming. And the same things that drove me then, that work ethic, the faith, I'm just wiser now. And I have more confidence now than I did then because I have more experience. I have more wisdom. I have more knowledge than than that than that person. And I have so many great people in my life to to be along with me. [00:11:54] Speaker 2: I wonder how much the lessons you learned during that those young years are now that you can now see in the program today. Yeah. How much has that that journey impacted what Clemson football has become in 2026? [00:12:08] Speaker 1: I mean, they're intertwined. Yeah. You know, I tell people sometimes people have asked me if I if I ever wanted to get in coaching. I never once in my life thought about coaching ever. You know, some people, they like they're like, hey, they know what they want to do. Like my kids, like, you know, my oldest, he wasn't sure. He went out and he did real estate for a couple of years. And then he's like, I know I want to coach my middle son, Drew. He either wanted to be a pastor. He wanted to go in the ministry or he wanted to coach. And he kind of prayed on it. And he's like, you know what, I think he I can do both as a coach. And and he's now coaching at Sanford University, his first job running his own room, which is a Christian university in Birmingham, which is which is awesome. So I think I think that's that's, you know, been a been a great thing for him. [00:13:04] Speaker 2: This episode is brought to you by my favorite clothing brand, Travis Matthew. And of course, I'm rocking it head to toe right now. 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And guys, supporting Travis Matthew, our partner, helps me out a ton, allows me to do this show, go around the country, bring you guys this content. So go get some new elevated everyday apparel and footwear at TravisMatthew.com. [00:14:08] Speaker 1: You know, everything in this program is, is, goes back to how it was shaped, but I never wanted to coach, you know, and I just wanted to play ball. That's all I wanted to do, just play ball three, you know, play three sports all the way through senior year. I go to Alabama and decide football is my best path to get a scholarship. Baseball didn't give full scholarships. Basketball was 15. Robert and Orr and I were in the same freshman class. I'm like, yeah, I'm probably going to work. There were like 90 scholarships in football at the time. I'm like, all right, I'm going to go do that. So I go to, uh, uh, walk on and do all that process. But, um, I just going about my business, but I was a pre-med major, biology major for three years. Yeah. I, my entire life, if you were to ask anybody, my whole life, somebody say, what do you want to do when you grow up? I was like, I want to be a pediatrician. That's all I ever wanted to do. And, and it's, it's an interesting thing, uh, from a faith standpoint too, because, um, it's kind of part of my testimony. I just, I, I, we had this guy named Dr. Goldblatt. He was the pediatrician. And I, and I think I went to see him until I was like 25 years old, by the way, uh, but Dr. Goldblatt, you know, I know he made good money and he always made you feel better. And I'm like, and, and for me and my situation as a kid and baby of three boys and seeing all the struggle in my family, uh, I was like, I'm going to be a pediatrician. And I was a really good student. Um, and, and I was like, I'm going to, I'm going to be a pediatrician. That's what I'm going to do. And I'm going to be able to take care of my mom. I'm going to make a bunch of money. And so that was kind of my, my thoughts. And so I go to Alabama, I'm pre-med major and, and life is good and I'm doing fine. And, and I'm kind of three years into it. And I just, I didn't love it. And I mean, I'm grinding all the time on the weekend. Now I'm playing ball. I'd kind of, I, you know, my red shirts, my third year I'm playing, uh, made the, made the moved up into the rotation. And, uh, and it's like, man, this is, it just, how am I going to play for 10 years of med school? Like reality started setting in and I just, I kind of, I kind of had this moment of clarity in life. Like, like, man, I just, I just, I just, I just don't think this is God started changing my heart. And I think I tell people, if you really are seeking God's guidance for your life, you know, sometimes we have these things in our heart that we want to do. Uh, but if you're seeking God's guidance, eventually he will put the people in your place. He will align the desires of your heart for what his calling on your life is. And that can change. Same thing happened to you. I don't know what your faith is, but I know you were a football coach and all of a sudden now you're a big time media guy here. Um, and so you, you had a change, uh, but you, you were following your instincts and your path. And for me, you know, God just kind of changed what, what his path for me was. So I, I flip over to the business school. I'm going to get my degree in business hospital administration, healthcare management, and, and I, I, I flip over. And the crazy thing about that is because I made this change, you can only, you know, you can only transfer so many like sciences over. And I made that change and it, it made me have to go to college a fifth year. And that fifth year was 1992 and we win the national championship, uh, that year. So I w I wouldn't, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have been there. [00:17:36] Speaker 2: Yeah. [00:17:36] Speaker 1: Um, and so we win the national championship. I'm getting my degree. Uh, so spring of 93, I'm working at DCH hospital doing my internship. I'm going to graduate in May. I'm, I've got a job lined up my first job back in Birmingham. I'm going to get married to Kath. Uh, I'm going to start in June and life is good. And I go out to spring practice and, uh, and it's, you know, coach Stalin's and, and, you know, coach Stalin's is like, Hey, you need to get a master's degree. And I'm like, I don't need a master's degree. I'm, I'm, I've got to, you know, I, I was like the last thing I wanted to do. Uh, and he's like, and I need a GA and you start in July, you know, what, what do you not understand about that? You know, that's kind of, and I just kind of rationalized it in my mind. And I'm like, well, you know what? I probably do need to get my MBA. If I'm going to run the hospital one day and doctors are going to work for me, then it probably would be good. So that's how I got into, I never thought about coaching, but I tell you this because a week into coaching and to just getting, you know, in those days you had nine coaches and two GA. So, I mean, it's like you're rolling into your career, but a week into coaching, it was like clarity of life for me. And what I realized was like, this is, this is what God had equipped me to do. This is what God called me to do. Like I, I didn't choose coaching, like coaching truly chose me. My story is unique. My, my journey is unique, but what, what happened in that moment was all of a sudden my life made sense to me. Like all the things that I saw as a kid that no kid should see, things that I went through, good and bad, I, I, all of a sudden realized, man, I, I like, these are assets for me. It all made sense. Like, yeah, like all the things that were my greatest liabilities in life, the things that I hated the most when I was in the midst of it, now all of a sudden are great assets for me. They, they, you know, God takes a mess and creates a message. Only God can do that. And, and I still love to compete. I loved, I'd never, I'd been on a team since I was four years old. I love team. I love to compete. I love getting a result every week. I love, uh, you know, competition and, and just, just everything that comes with this game. But I just, I also realized, man, I got, I've got a lot of knowledge. Like I, I knew a lot more than I even knew that I knew. And, and it was, so it was this eyeopening thing. And, and I was like, wow, this is, this is what I'm going to do. So I go on and I'm a GA for three years and I get my MBA, uh, and, and then coach hires me full time. But I knew coaching is what God called me to do. It's what God equipped me to do. And I just, I had total peace with that. So everything, everything that I do as a coach, how I run this program, the decisions I make in life, uh, who I hire, you know, this, everything is shaped by my experiences in life. Everything, you know, the, the way I lead when, you know, I said, okay, one day, if I ever get to be a head coach, I want to do this, this, this, this, this. All of that came from my journey, from my experiences. A lot of it was things I learned, you know, as a kid, you know, it's like, I tell, sometimes guys will come in my office and they'll say, you know what, coach, you don't, you don't understand, man, my dad, this, my dad. I'm like, no, no, I do understand. Here's what I understand. We need to quit letting those be reasons for failure and let's start making them be, or excuses for failure and let's make them be reasons for success. Those should be reasons to not do this instead of excuses for this. It's a mindset shift. And so there, there's really, and then just, just an attitude of belief. Like I, if there's one thing and people who know me, like I've always believed, I've always, you know, just had this, this confidence that God had a great plan for my life, you know? And then, and you can't just believe you got to put the work in. You got to, you got to go follow that up with effort and action and decision-making and sacrifice and toughness and all those things. So, I mean, everything I do is based on the journey that I've been upon, the lessons that I've learned along the way, because I've learned so much. And also the people that I've learned from, I've been around some great, great, great leaders and great mentors along my journey. And all of those things have impacted the way we, the way we run this program. [00:22:28] Speaker 2: Even then, after you, you get the, the job at Alabama, I mean, there was more adversity coming in, in your career when you, when you left Alabama, then you had to figure out how do I stay in coaching? Do I stay in coaching? Yeah. What was that time frame like? Because there's a very real, you know, I think about how sometimes life is a combination of some of these big decisions you have to make. And there's a world where I was when he doesn't become the Clemson head coach. If something goes a little bit different after you leave Alabama, what was that time frame like? [00:22:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly, I didn't leave Alabama, man. They, they, they left me. I was trying to frame it in a different way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I, I'd probably still be there. Honestly, I'm, I'm a bloom where you're playing at guy, man. I mean, listen, I was, I was, I went to Alabama when I was 18. I left when I was 31 and I left because I didn't have, I had to have a job, you know? So they made a coaching change and let coach Dubose go after the 2000 season. And so when coach Stallings retired, coach Dubose took over, he retained me. And then he got let go and Dennis Franchoni came in and he didn't keep anybody. And I thought I might've had a chance, you know, coach Malmore was a great, great friend of mine and, and he was trying to maybe get him to maybe keep me in coach Franchoni. I stayed around for a little while and kind of helped him transition recruiting. And then he called me in and, you know, like, like any great coach, I mean, he was loyal to his guys and he had his guys kind of coming and he didn't have a spot for me. And, uh, so yeah, that was, uh, you pack up, you know, 13 years of, of, of stuff. And it's like, well, man, God, what, what do you have for me now? And, and it was an interesting time in my life because, you know, I had so many people calling me, um, I was 30, 31, two little kids and, you know, people were like, man, this is not right. And this and that, and you may, you know, like, but I just, I just had peace. I didn't know what God's plan for me was, but I know I just like when I was a kid with nothing, literally nothing, but I had that same faith and hope and belief and trust. But now I'm, I'm a 31 year old man with two degrees with a lot of knowledge, a lot of experience. I've had accomplished so much in life. And yeah, it was frustrating, uh, because I didn't, I apply, I can't tell you how many jobs I applied for that. I didn't even get a call, but I coached, I coached eight years. I've played five coached eight at Alabama and, and I mean, there was like, I didn't even get a letter back from some, I already like an acknowledgement. And, and, uh, so I didn't get in, in those days too, you didn't have analysts and all that. You had nine coaches and a couple of GA. So if you didn't get hired by February, you were out. Well, I didn't get hired by February. Uh, ironically, I tried hard to get the receiver job at Notre Dame because urban Meyer was the receiver coach at Notre Dame and left to go to Bowling Green. And, but I, I didn't get, I didn't even get an opportunity. I didn't get an opportunity anywhere. [00:25:14] Speaker 2: And so not even a call, I mean, I had a couple of people call me, but I was the wrong [00:25:19] Speaker 1: fit or whatever, whatever it was. Um, and so now here it is, and we're, we've been to the convention, nothing works out. Thankfully, my contract was to like July one. So I had a little bit of time and I'm sitting there and it's like, yeah, what, what am I going to do with my life here? I got to figure this thing out. It looks like, and, and I, and it's crazy. And this is how things work and you never know. So my very first strength coach was a guy named Rich Wingo, legendary player at Alabama legend. I mean, he's, he's on the goal line stand and 79, he's a long time green Bay Packers guys as tough as they come. Oh my gosh. Uh, he was my first strength coach. We were all scared to death, rich Wingo. And, but he didn't get retained when coach Stalin's came in. So I was only with him a year or so. And then he was gone and I hadn't been around him in years. Well, all of a sudden I'm, I'll never forget it. It's February and I get a call or, or Kath walks up in my little TV room. This, you know, we had the phone with the antenna, you know, the, you could actually walk around the house with a real phone, a portable phone. And that was when caller ID was like, she had answered the phone and she was like, it's Rich Wingo. And I'm like, I jumped up. I'm like, coach Wingo. Like, you know, like I'm in trouble. I'm 31 years old. And, uh, and he's like, Dabo, what are you doing? And I'm like, well, I'm not doing anything. And he, he offers me an opportunity. He said, well, look, um, I was, I was, I was making $80,000 at Alabama and, um, you know, that's coaches didn't make a ton of money in those days. And, and I got it. And that's the other thing. I didn't get into coaching to make money. I made a decision. I went from, I'm going to be a pediatrician because I want to make money to, no, I'm going to coach because this is what I love to do. And my wife's a teacher and we're going to chase our passion. And, and, and that's another lesson in that. Like, like, just do what you love to do. Just do what you'd love to do, man. And you, and you'll live a life, you know, like money's important and everybody's got it. But, but if I just think all those things work out, if you truly chase your passion, because when you're passionate about doing stuff, you go above and beyond, you know, and, and you don't really even look at it as a job, you look at it as, you know, you love it. And Colossians 3:23, whatever you do, do it with all your heart is if you're working for the Lord. So, and then God will work it out. And so anyway, um, he offers me this opportunity. He said, well, I'll tell you what, I'll pay you 80 grand. He said, but you're going to make more than that with, with bonuses and stuff. If you're what I think you are. And I'm like, I'm like, Rich, I don't know anything about shopping centers. We were, it was a, we built shopping centers all over the country, a real estate development company. And I'm like, I don't know. He goes, I'm not hiring you. Cause you know that he said, I'm hiring you because of who you are. I'm hiring, hiring you because of your work ethic, your toughness, your character. And these are things that he saw in me as a freshman. And this is, this is 12 years later. And, and he's telling me these things. And I remember driving back to Tuscaloosa, like, I'm going to have to take this job. First of all, I'm going to be able to, Alabama had to pay me to July. This is like, like an opportunity in life. I can get out of debt. I owed a bunch of student loans. I had all kinds of stuff and we had two kids. And, and so God took me out of coaching for 18 months. So for the next 18 months and, and, and I wasn't miserable, I was blooming where I was planted and I'm right. But, but I did, I prayed every day for 18 months, literally for 18 months, I prayed the same prayer driving, uh, to work. I just pray. I just would, I just talked to God. I would just say like, God, I, I want to go. I feel like there's this void in my life because I think when you, when you really have experienced impact in people's lives and transformation in people's lives and the joy that comes from that, and, and it's hard to kind of fill that void and being out of coaching made me a better coach. And I, and that's something I experienced as a young coach. I saw a lot of maybe older coaches in life along my journey that I think they had a lot of fear because they had never done anything else. And I, I think, and I, and I think they had a lot of fear of, and I, and I think some of them compromised along the way because, because they had fear of like, what would they do if they couldn't coach? And, and I really, man, I'm going to tell you, God gave me a completely different perspective. I meant, first of all, I learned a whole different industry and I was very successful. I was very good at it. I didn't even know what the heck I was doing. And I, and I, but I figured it out and I, and by the time I left there, I mean, I was rolling and I was really on, I was, I was really on my way and, and could have had an amazing career in that. And I loved it. I had great people I was working with and man, I just, I loved it. Um, I was traveling all over the country. I had a project in Las Vegas and Olathe, Kansas and Denver or, uh, Grand Johnson, Colorado and, and Hoover, Alabama. I was doing a new project in my hometown in Pell. I had a lot going on, um, and met some amazing people, but, but I, there was this void and I literally prayed every single day. My prayer was God. I just, I just, I, I just, I want to coach, but I only want to coach if that's your will for me. I don't want it to be my will. I want that to be your will for me. And if it is, if it is your will, and then, you know, I pray that you will take me to a place where I can raise my kids. I was very specific. Lord, I pray that you will, that you will take me, uh, to be a part of a, a staff that has a head coach who loves you, who will allow me to, uh, be a good father and a good husband. And I was very specific on what I prayed for and, and I prayed, I literally prayed that for 18 months, but, and then I would wrap it up and I'd say, but if that's not your will, father God, if that's not your will, I pray you will just help me fill that void with some other way and just help me to be great today. And man, then I'd go about my day and move on. And next thing, you know, um, I mean, 18 months, I'm just rolling. In fact, my wife and I, we had just said, well, it doesn't look like we're going to get back into coaching that I just trusted that probably wasn't God's plan. And we had built a house in, in Birmingham, kind of, it was going to be our dream home. And we were going to move in this home. And, um, we're two weeks from, from moving in it, literally two weeks from moving in it. And I get a call on a Friday from Tommy Bowden and, uh, I, I was gone at lunch and I come back and he had left a message with our assistant there. And she goes, you got a call from a Tommy Bowden and I, and I'm like, coach Bowden, you know, and he was my first year. He was my receiver coach my freshman year and then he left with Bill Curry. And so he's, I, I'll never forget it, you know, just classic Tommy Bowden, you know, he's, he's just, he's just kind of short and sweet. And, and I'm like, uh, I said, Hey coach, how you doing? He's like, Hey, uh, how you doing dab? I wanted to ask something. He said, look, um, I had a receiver job come open last night. Rick stock still had been the long time receiver here left to go to East Carolina. I had no idea. He said, Hey, would you, uh, would you be interested in getting back in coaching? I'm like, yeah, I'm like, absolutely. I would. I mean, I'm two weeks from moving in this new home. I got a million things going on. I ain't even talking to my wife. I'm like, yes, sir. I absolutely would be interested in getting back in coaching. And here's what he said. This is what he said. Tommy Bowden. I'll never forget. He goes, well, I'll tell you what we talked for a little bit. He said, how about you pray on it? He said, I'll pray about it and I'll call you back Sunday. And, uh, you still feel good about it. Then we'll, we'll get you up here for an interview the next week. And, um, and so, in fact, my wife and I were going to go buy furniture the next day. And I was like, you know what? Let's just wait. I'm probably not going to get the job. And, uh, but he called back on Sunday and he said, Hey, you still interested? I said, yes, sir. Yes, sir. Talked to Cath. We're, and so he said, I'll tell you what. So I went in and talked to Rich Wingo on Monday and said, Hey, look, I've got to go do this. And, uh, and he gave me his blessing. Ironically, they were on the same staff together. He was the strength coach. Yeah. Rich, uh, Tommy was the receiver coach under Curry. And, um, so I came up here on that Tuesday and when I got picked up at the Greenville airport by the ops guy here, I'd never been up here. I'd get picked up and, and exit 54 Pelham road was the first exit. And I'm from Pelham. I was like, okay, well, I'm off to a good start with this interview, but come up here and interview two days later, I'm standing in the driveway of that new house that we had built. And Tommy calls me and, um, offers me the job. And Cath and I already said, if he offers it and it's anywhere, I knew what I was going to take a pay cut, no matter what. And we took a big pay cut, a big one to come to Clemson, which is another, like, like, don't chase the money, chase your passion, chase your happiness. And, and, uh, we took a big pay cut to come to Clemson, but I loved it. And, and we packed up two little kids. She was pregnant with our third child. Now all of our family was mad at us. And, and, and it wasn't a great, like it was, and I probably, you know, everybody was kind of predicting he was going to get fired that year. And maybe that's why, maybe I was the only guy that'd take the job. I don't know, but, uh, I just knew this is what God called me to do. And so those 18 months out of coaching gave me a different perspective and it gave me a confidence and a freedom to be a better coach, to be a better leader. Uh, I mean, just, I mean, all of, I mean, the, the late nights, the grind, the, the heat, the, the two a days, the meetings. I mean, it, it just, I couldn't wait because I missed all of that. I mean, I had a great job. I was off on the weekends. I was off at four 30 every day. I mean, we, I had this great job making great money. Um, and I was happy, but man, I wasn't doing what I was called to do. And I knew this is what I was called to do. And not only did I know I knew I was being called to Clemson and I didn't understand it at the time I didn't, but in those 18 months, again, it just being away from it, it gave me such a deeper appreciation of the privilege to be able to coach, but also the responsibility that comes with being a coach. And I, and I just, I just grabbed onto that. Uh, and then I came in here and, and, you know, I knew I was called to be here, but you know, I can't say there wasn't a little bit of doubt. We started out five and four. And so we come up here and Kath and I started building a house here where I bought a lot. We're start building a house and, you know, it was not good times. And we're, we're, we, we lose to Wake Forest, destroyed at Wake Forest and we're five and four on a Thursday night. We get beat, uh, or no early in that year, but that was later on Thursday night, but we get beat blown out up there. We're five and four and it's not good. Uh, it's really not good. And we got, you know, Bobby Bowden, Bowden bowl, and I think number three, Tennessee coming in the next week and no way we're going to beat those guys. Right. Like it's saying, looking good. This is, I'm probably a lot of people told me don't take the job. They're like, look, you're going to, you're going to go there for six months and now you're going to be out again. And I'm like, no, this is what God's called me to do. And I didn't really understand it, but we're five and four and we, we upset Florida state for five and 14, just got blown out by Wake. And we went 27 to 10, I believe, and probably cost Florida state a national championship that year. And then we beat Duke, I think 40 to six, then we beat South Carolina, 63 to 17, worst defeat in that rivalry. And then we go beat a top 10, Tennessee in the peach bowl. We go from five and four to nine and four. He gets coach, coach Bowden gets coach of the year and they give him a new five-year contract. And I get to, I get to move in that house that I'd been building for two years, you know, in two different States. And so, um, you know, that, that was, that was how, you know, I got here and there was just a transition time, but, but it was, it was amazing, uh, experience for me, especially as I look back on it now, you know, cause there were some days I'm like, man, I just miss coaching. God, I miss out coaching. I miss all of it. Players calling me, those relationships were special. Um, but, but God had me right where he wanted me to be and that developed patience in my life too. And we're not very patient people by nature, but that gave me a lot of patience. And so, um, you know, here I am now going on year 24. Uh, so it's been a, it's been quite a journey, but those, those 18 months were powerful in my development. [00:37:58] Speaker 2: And then I think it was 2007, 2008, you get promoted to, uh, interim head coach. But they kind of, you know, they, they told you that, listen, you're the head coach for seven weeks, go prove it to us of why you should be the head coach. Yeah. You know, that I'm curious that first team meeting you have, you're a first time head coach, you're walking in here, you have all those life experiences. If I was a fly on the wall in that team meeting, what would I have seen first time you address the team as a head coach? [00:38:26] Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I told them the truth and I was very fortunate because I'd been the receiver coach here and assistant head coach a couple of those years, uh, for five and a half years. And I'd recruited a lot of guys in the room. Yeah. You know, I, you know, it was, you didn't position recruit in those days. You, you area, I, I'd recruit a bunch of the kids. So I had relationships all in the room, but you know, it was a, it was an interesting day. Ironically, we, we had lost to Wake Forest, uh, on a, on a Thursday night. Uh, and, um, you know, we came to work that Monday and I actually had the devotion. We'd do a devotion every morning. It was actually my day to do the devotion 7:00 AM staff meeting. And then about 10:30, Andy Johnson walks in and says, Hey, coach Bowden wants to see y'all in the, in the, in the, and he comes in and meets with us and tells us, Hey, there's going to be a change. Terry Don walks in and says, yeah, you're the head coach. And my initial reaction was like, this is going to be awful. This is like the worst thing to happen to me, you know, because this is going to be, we had six games left, seven weeks. And I'm like, this is going to be miserable. Everybody's trying to get a job. We're all fired. We got to go get jobs. And that was my mindset. But then I went into Terry Don Phillips office. And so this is what changed my mindset. Having that first team meeting, I go into his office and Terry Don Phillips says, listen, I know this is a tough spot. And he said, but you know, this is what Tommy, not Tommy and I felt like was the best. And we want to give you a chance to be the interim head coach. He goes, but here's what I want you to know. I don't want you to be the interim head coach. I want you to be the head coach for you. I'm going to give you seven weeks to be the head coach. And he said, and then he started to tell me, he said, Dabo and I want, I want you to know this. He said, and I mean this, he said, and I'm gonna hire the best coach for Clemson. He said, but I've watched you for five and a half years. I've watched your relationships with the players. I've watched your toughness on the field. I've watched how you've taught. I've watched how you are with your family. I see you in all these. He said, I'm just going to be honest with you. I believe you're what we need at Clemson. This is what he tells to me. I walk in with this mindset of, oh my God, this is going to be miserable. I wish I'd put somebody else in charge of this. He's telling me that he thinks I'm what Clemson needs. And then he tells me why. And the lesson in that is so powerful. And I learned and I teach people all the time. You never know who's watching. You never know who's paying attention. So be great where you are. Be great. I get a lot of people that are calling me in the middle of the season, wanting me to hire them. And I'm like, well, how about you just be great where you are? And again, maybe that's part of why I've been at two places in my life. I've just always been so focused on trying to be great where I am and with the relationships that I have. But you never know who's watching. So two things in that. Be great at whatever you're doing. Do it in a way that people notice and you create value for yourself. You make yourself like, we can't lose that guy. We can't lose that. That was my journey at Alabama. Walk on, scholarship, GA, hiring full time. We got to keep this guy. But then the other part of that message is make sure, whatever it is, make sure you're preparing along the way. You're learning and growing and preparing for the job you want one day. So he starts telling me all this stuff and he's like, no matter what happens, I'm going to give you an interview for this job when it's all said and done. I'm going to give you a chance. He said, that sure would help you win a few ballgames. And he said, but whatever you want to do and whatever you think you've got to do to fix us, you've got my support for seven weeks. And so I walk out of there like, holy cow. [00:42:13] Speaker 2: Yeah. [00:42:13] Speaker 1: Man, I get to be the head coach for seven weeks. And I was so empowered. I went and sat in a closet over an old jersey over there. And I just had all these things in my head. I'm just writing and writing and writing and writing and all these things. And well, now it's real. Okay. Now I'm the head coach. And now I've got to make some decisions. All right. How do I, so how do I, there's so much negativity. And I'm like, man, I got to make a few changes and tweaks. I got, it was just good people. But I had to, I had to try to bring us together. And so I kind of started there and I met with each coach and I was honest with them. And I told them what they said, because I wanted to empower them. Like, hey, look, not a good chance. I'm going to, if I were to get the job, I can't promise you, I'd keep you. But best thing for all of us is let's come together and let's go, let's go work. We don't have a great opportunity at this, but we got a chance. And so that was kind of where that was. And now it's four o'clock team meeting. And I met with the team by myself. I walked in and that meeting would have been very different without that meeting with Terry Don. So I walk in here and I come in here with, with, you know, just very transparent conversation with them. And again, thankful I had great relationships, but it was a tough day. It was, it was a bittersweet day because I love coach Bowden. But now we've got a, we got a job to do and we got practice in two hours. And so I just laid out my vision. I told them what the AD told me. I told them what the AD told me. And, and then I said, look, I'm the head coach for seven weeks and none of y'all signed up for me to be your head coach. So if you want to clean your locker out, you can do that. Your scholarship would be waiting on you in January, whoever the next guy is. All right. But if you come to practice tonight at six o'clock, you better be all in. And here's what that means. And here's, and you know, here's, we're going to do some things different. And I, and I kind of rolled those things out. And I said, listen, you see their seniors got seven weeks left. We're a three and three football team. It's I'm like, if you guys don't, Hey, nobody owes me anything. And, and then I said, we've got to, we, but, but we're going, we're going to finish and we're going to do this, this. And I kind of laid it out. And, and man, those kids bought in, they showed up and they didn't have to. That 08 group, those seven weeks, none of this happens without that group making a decision. Clemson has become great. That group made a decision. Greatness is your decision. And that group made a decision. You know what? We're going to get on board and we're, we're going to buy in. And they did. Um, and man, um, all the way to, I mean that, you know, and, and, and it just started like, you know, Terry Don, Hey, drop us off in the perimeter road. We're just going to walk through the parking lot. You know, you never, you know, just stuff like that. And, and, um, man, some of the greatest things that we have in place now, foundational things were created by that 08, 09 group. Uh, but those guys chose, uh, to believe and got on board and we went four and two and I, and I get the job. Uh, so, I mean, it was, uh, it was an amazing, uh, time and, you know, kind of like I was a walk on coach. I was a walk on our walk on player, walk on coach who got the job. And, and I'm just thankful for the journey and thankful for those players who, who believed. And then, uh, and then, you know, we, we get the job and get it done. And then I was able to kind of start fresh, you know, nine and, and, uh, go from there. [00:45:42] Speaker 2: This episode is brought to you by prize picks, the absolute best way to get action on sports. Listen, I tried all the different apps and prize picks is the best and easiest way to get action on sports all year long. And now they got something I've been loving lately, team picks. So on prize picks, you used to just be able to pick player stats. Now you can pick team picks, culture picks, anything in sports or culture. 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One of the cool things about what you built here is, is you've done it in a different way than a lot of programs around the country have. And you've won at a higher than anyone else in college football, doing what you've done here. That's, you know, with the culture and the way that you've recruited, it's been different than players. Even in the NIL and portal era, you've you've retained players at a level that no one else in college football has been able to. What's made you so convicted in how you do things in the process that you do things? Because despite what anyone else may say outside, you don't change the way you're going to do things here because because of the belief you have in the system. [00:47:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, we I mean, we it's we've changed a lot in 18 years. We've had to change many things, but rules have changed. Uh, so we've had to change a lot of things over the years, but, uh, our core values don't change. Our purpose doesn't change how we achieve the purpose. Uh, you know, we've had to do it differently because again, the games change rules change lots of things. There's a lot of things you can do now that you couldn't do 10 years ago or whatever, but our purpose has always stayed the same graduation, equipping them as men, making sure they have a college experience. And I want everybody who comes to Clemson to win a championship. That's our purpose. And how we go about achieving that has changed a million times. Uh, but, but I'm not, I don't just change to change, you know, very intentional, but it's all driven by conviction and it's all driven by, you know, what's best for the long-term health of this place. And what's best for the 30 year old version of this young person that God has put in front of me, period the end. And so, um, yeah, I mean, there's, there's all kinds of differences. I mean, dang, you can go back and, and look at all the rules that have changed since 09. I mean, it's a lot these last three years, probably four years, uh, or even this decade. I mean, we've had COVID we've had, uh, uh, uh, NIL we've had portal. We've had zero rules, zero enforcement on stuff. I mean, it's just been, it's been crazy, but yet we've still won. And, and we've, we've, we've won big and we have fulfilled the purpose of 17 years later, we have purpose driven results. Number one thing is graduation. Well, we lead the nation in graduation. Number one, 430 seniors, 424 graduates, the last three years, number one in America in the craziest time in college football, in my opinion. Um, equipping them as men. You and I talked a lot about Paul journey and what that's all about. It's a curriculum for freshmen, sophomores, juniors, seniors. You know, you, you come to Clemson, you're going to leave here way more than a guy who can run around or sack a quarterback or read a defense. You know, you're going to leave here equipped as a man. It's, it's a, it's a, it's just a holistic program. Uh, great college experience. Well, we lead the nation in retention in an era where they can leave any time up until this year, they can leave twice a year. And so we lead the nation. Fewest players that leave our program. So they're not staying here because they've had a terrible experience. [00:49:50] Speaker 2: Yeah. [00:49:51] Speaker 1: You know, we have 28 former players. We have, I don't know, 80 something people on staff here. 28 of them are former players. They love this place. We have former players in this building all the time. There'll be 20, 30 guys here this summer training. Guys come back. They had a great experience here. All right. But, but winnings matters too, but it's how you win. And so I want everybody to win a championship. Well, I've had 17 recruiting classes. Every signing class ever at Clemson has won a championship except for last year's freshman. We didn't win the league last year at the 25. So Braden Jacobs, Gideon Davidson, you know, that crew, they're all on the clock. They got three more years to get to keep a streak going that I don't think any other coach in America can say every signing class you've ever had has won a championship. Maybe there's one more there, but it's a, it'd be a very small list. A couple of guys, maybe in college football, 138 coaches, everybody that's come here. So, you know, the way we won, yeah, it's unique. Yeah. It's different, but I believe that's what's made us successful. You can do what everybody else does, or you can be unique and you can be different. And when I first got this job, that was one of the first things that I, that I, I told our team in one of those first meetings, you know, they, they said, okay, you get like one graphic, you know, I was like, man, I got, we're on a tight budget. And I was like, I got, I got one graphic. I better make this one count. And I, I went with, uh, the George, uh, Washington Carver quote of, you know, when you do the common things in life in an uncommon way, you will command the attention of the world. And my message in that was, and I met with the team, you know, once I got the job and I came in, I came in with those two signs right there that are still there believe, and it can't be done with the T crossed out. And I was like, look, then I went over all the things that everybody said we could never do at Clemson. We would never do. I could never do, you know, I was the worst hire of 2009. I was a D plus hire. I would never make it. I would never be able to do this. All the predictions, all these things that people like to say, all the hating is a, is a sport. We've made hating a sport today, but all these things hating on Clemson, Clemson can't do this. Clemson can't do that. Or all the things that Clemson hadn't done in a hundred years, whatever. When I, when, when I, before our tenure, we hadn't won the ACC in 20 years. And it wasn't a 17 team league. We hadn't won 10 games in 20 years. Now, if there's a, God forbid a year, we don't win the league or win 10 games. Like, you know, we should fire everybody and everything's terrible at Clemson. And it's like a sport to, to, to just make up stupid stuff. And it's not to ignore that. Hey, yeah, we had a bad season, but it's just a, it's a, it's a, a crazy thing that we have. But man, we have, we have won by fulfilling the purpose. You know, I mean, everybody who's come here, every coordinator has won a championship except Tom Allen had seven quarterbacks win a championship here. And so, you know, that's what I, I kind of go back to is yeah. We're unique. We're different. We've done the common things in an uncommon way. And that's how we've commanded the attention of the world. We've lived that quote out for a long time. And we are far from perfect, perfect. And we screw up and we make mistakes. But we're always growing. We're always learning, but we, we don't get away from our core values. We don't get away from the foundation of this program. And we, we, we build this thing from the inside out. And, you know, that's just, that's a lot of people don't understand Clemson. You know, you probably don't understand Clemson a whole lot, you know, but maybe, but maybe coming here, you know, there's a ton of people who, who, you know, when you sign up for a job like this, like immediately you put a logo on where you're hated by a lot of people just because they don't even know you, but you just wear a logo. I mean, man's got to have job, right? And I go, and we, and we, and we supposed to do a good job with whatever it is we're doing. So I get all that stuff, but then, you know, sometimes as you have success and especially if you're a person of faith, well, you open yourself up to, to more criticism. But, but the facts are the facts. People, people can have all kinds of opinions and narratives, but they can't have different facts. And the facts are we have won. We have won in every era when, when it was the BCS, little old Clemson, we got to the orange bowl, the BCS orange bowl, and we, we beat Ohio state. Coach Meyer was a big moment for little Clemson. When it went to the final four or we went to six of those and to four national championships. And we played in three national championships and went two and one against Alabama and coach Saban. All right. And then when it went to 12, we made the first 12, we didn't make it last year, but we made the first 12. So it, whatever era has happened in Iowa, we've won. And even with seven wins last year, our, our worst season in, in 15 years around here. I mean, you know, people want to talk about, it's all about winning. It's all about championships. Well, nobody's got more championships. In totality. And even this decade, you know, we're, we've got three ACC titles in the first six years of this decade. Nobody else has more than one. We've been in the playoff twice the first six years. Nobody else has been more than one. You know, I mean, so if it's about winning, it's about championships. How about draft picks? Ain't nobody got more draft picks since me as a head coach. Kirby and I got the most first rounder. So we're developing guys. Those are facts, you know, but we also lead the nation in graduation. We lead the nation in retention. And so we're unique in our approach and we're not for everybody. And we know that, and that's fine. But, you know, we had a frustrating season last year, but we're in the midst of the greatest era in the history of Clemson football. And that's one season. And, you know, I'm not saying we're going to win the national championship this year, but we're going to be better and we're going to be bad. And we're going to take Clemson back to the top. You best believe that. All right. But how we're going to do it is still driven by the purpose, our North Star. Yeah. [00:56:08] Speaker 2: Last question I got for you, coach. I appreciate all your time. What's your why? What's the reason you do what you do every day? [00:56:13] Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that's a great question. It's something I challenge everybody to know. And if you walk around our building and you look at everybody's why, you know, for me, my why is to my purpose, you know, as a man is to glorify God in all that I do. That's number one. And again, it goes back to Colossians 3:23. Whatever you do, you do it with all your heart as if you're working for the Lord. Whatever you do. It doesn't mean, hey, whatever you do, except you're a football coach. You can't do that for the Lord. Except for if you're a big time media podcaster, you know, know whatever you do. Clean your room. You do it with all your heart as if you're working for the Lord. And if you do something with all your heart, then you're passionate about it. And man, that's where the magic happens. Passion and enthusiasm. Passion is love and enthusiasm. It really, it truly means God within. And so, so my purpose is to whatever I do, do it with all my heart, like glorify God. Glorify God. All right. And whatever I do to be a great husband and father. All right. And then to use this platform of education and football to build great men, to build transformational leaders. You know, that's, that's my, that's my why. And hopefully we can win a few ball games along the way. [00:57:37] Speaker 2: Yeah. [00:57:38] Speaker 1: But that's what drives me there. That's what never gets old to me ever is the relationships. Like I just called Grady Jarrett and Dalton Freeman a couple of weeks ago. I FaceTimed him and Grady's in a sauna and he comes out of a sauna. He's on year 12 in the NFL and he comes out of the sauna. He's all sweating. I'm like, put some clothes on. He got no shirt on and he's like, what's up? What's up coach? You know, I mean, he's been gone here since 2014. I said, man, I'm calling to tell you you're in the hall of fame at Clemson. And he just started crying in tears. I called Dalton Freeman. He was coming out of a funeral and, you know, and he didn't have no idea. And then I just seeing him cry and the joy, you know, but knowing that you had a part of that transformation in their life, knowing that, you know, you see these young men come in and out of this program and know that they're equipped as men, they're ready. All right. They're ready. They're ready. They're way more than like the transformation that happens here. These guys come here and they, we try and do everything in this program to teach them. Hey, you're, you're not, you're a great man with a great future. You just happen to be a good football player. Yeah. As opposed to, I'm just a great football player. And when you ain't playing ball, you got no identity, man, that that's letting the game use you. [00:58:58] Speaker ?: Yeah. [00:58:59] Speaker 1: And so, man, that's, that's my why, you know, to truly use this platform of education and football, this great game to, to, to grow men, to, to grow leaders, to equip them to, to, to be great husbands and fathers, to be great citizens in society. Man, let me tell you something. I can't wait to read the stories of the, all these young men that have come through this program and what they're going to go do in life. Again, I've had 430 seniors and 424 graduates. I can't wait to see them, man. I mean, J Ron curse, whose last year was 2015, went on to have a great year. He's back finishing school, working on my staff as a student assistant to finish his degree. Like that never gets old to me to, to see them. He's 31. Now I knew him at 17. They're two different people. [00:59:55] Speaker 2: Yeah. [00:59:55] Speaker 1: And so that's what drives everything and how I make decisions and how I run the program, whether it's, you know, helping them navigate. Cause you know, like there's a lot on these kids, there's money, there's pressure, there's expectations, there's performance, there's noise. There's all this stuff, there's comparison and man, we have a huge response. And I can't save the world, but man, we, we're going to do a great job here at Clemson. And we're going to help them navigate. And we're going to help them hopefully to not be a statistic. We want the statistics to be in our favor, not against us. You know, by how we do what we do here by our why, you know, we know what we do. We know how to do it, but why is what drives all of those things. And, uh, so everybody, everybody has a why, uh, as a coach, I challenge all these guys. And man, I know what you do. Okay. You play quarterback and you play football, but you know how to do it, but why? And, and, and, you know, we have a why as a, as a program, but I also have a purpose and a why as a man. And that's what, that's what drives me every day. That's what, that's what gives me the energy is at the end of the day, uh, whatever you do, you do it as if you're working for the Lord. And that's what I do. You know, I, I, I see this as a calling on my life and, uh, God's called me to be a football coach. He's called me to be the coach at Clemson. If he ever calls me not to be the coach at Clemson, Hey, I'll, I'll, I won't be the coach. Uh, but you know, uh, we're a long way from that. I'm just getting going. I got many, many more years ahead of me. You know, good Lord keeps me healthy, um, to do what I love to do. And I'm so thankful for it and grateful. [01:01:39] Speaker 2: Awesome coach. Well, I appreciate the conversation. This was fascinating and, uh, I appreciate having us out. I really do. I mean, you're one of the greatest coaches our sports had and, and the best part is you've done it the right way and you've been great people along the way. So I appreciate it. Yeah. [01:01:51] Speaker 1: I appreciate you, man. Great job. [01:01:53] Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Appreciate it.