CNN anchor breaks down transcript from second day of testimony in Trump hush money trial

[0:00] We have the full transcript from the trial today, and even though virtually nothing happens in court [0:05] without a team of reporters posting it online, almost in real time, even the fastest reporter [0:09] can't capture the scope and the sweep and the full context that the complete record does. [0:13] CNN's John Berman has been going through it, including more of David Pecker's testimony [0:17] in the catch and kill scheme at the heart of the case. [0:19] Some of it deals with former playboy model Karen McDougal, whose story of her alleged [0:23] relationship with Trump was caught and killed by David Pecker. [0:27] Before we bring you details of the transcript, I just want to play for you what Karen McDougal [0:31] told me in her only television interview about why she decided to tell her story. [0:36] I feel like the contract is illegal. [0:38] I feel like I wasn't presented correctly. [0:40] I was lied to and everybody involved in this deal. [0:44] I want the rights back, and I want to share my truth because everyone else is talking about [0:48] my truth, which I need to share my story. [0:52] Do you have any regrets about the relationship that you said you had with him? [0:56] Back then? [0:57] Yeah. [0:57] The only regret I have about the relationship that I had with Donald was the fact that he [1:04] was married. [1:06] And John Berman joining me now. [1:07] So, John, you've been digging deeper into the transcript. [1:09] What stands out? [1:10] First of all, this is the transcript of just today, so you can see how much paper comes out [1:14] here. [1:14] And the part where they talk about Karen McDougal was at the very end of today's hearing. [1:18] The prosecution saved the Karen McDougal part. [1:20] And in here, David Pecker recounts being pulled out of a meeting from a phone call by Donald [1:27] Trump to ask about the various whispers that have been going on about Karen McDougal. [1:31] We don't have graphics to this, but let me read this to you. [1:34] Pecker says in the testimony, he mentioned to me, he said, I spoke to Michael, Michael [1:38] Cohen. [1:38] He said, he told me about, uh, uh, that time. [1:41] He told me about that. [1:42] He said, he told me about Karen. [1:45] He said to me, what do you think? [1:47] This is Pecker saying that Trump asked him, what do you think about Karen McDougal? [1:51] Pecker goes on to say, I believe you should buy it. [1:53] I believe you, Trump, should buy the Karen McDougal story. [1:56] Trump said to me, look, everything he says, I don't buy stories. [2:00] And he said that anytime you do anything like this, it always gets out. [2:04] Pecker says, I still believe we should take the story off the market. [2:07] Trump says, let me think about it and I'll have Michael Cohen call you in a few days. [2:11] And this we do have a graphic of later in the testimony, Pecker talks about how he was [2:16] speaking to Michael Cohen. [2:17] This is Josh Steinglass, the prosecutor. [2:19] How would you describe Michael Cohen's tone during those calls about Karen McDougal? [2:23] Pecker says, Michael was very agitated. [2:26] It looked like he was getting a lot of pressure to get the answer, like right away. [2:30] Steinglass asks, what makes you say that? [2:32] Pecker says, he kept on calling and each time he called, he seemed more anxious. [2:37] Steinglass says, did you understand? [2:38] Did you understand as to where that pressure to find out more was coming from? [2:42] Pecker says, well, you know, I assumed he had a conversation with Mr. Trump. [2:45] And Mr. Trump was asking Michael Cohen, did we hear anything yet? [2:50] You would have, objection, you can't assume. [2:52] As soon as you hear the word assume, objection. [2:54] Look, he was jumping up before I was. [2:56] I mean, a witness can't testify, I assume this or I assume that. [3:00] That's not, those aren't facts or objection, right? [3:02] I apologize for just my instinct. [3:06] I do find the transcript fascinating. [3:09] I'm dying to read it. [3:10] And actually, a friend of mine, Jim Walden, who's a brilliant attorney, he's the one who filed the motion asking for the daily transcript to be released. [3:18] The people who aren't too happy about it are the court reporters who get paid daily copy to do this. [3:23] But, you know, again, these aren't crimes. [3:26] Like, nothing that you just spoke about is a crime. [3:29] Michael Cohen being anxious is not a crime. [3:32] It just means it's something that they're interested in. [3:34] And Abby, when, you know, you talk about their relationship changing in 2015, we now know that when you declare yourself a public office, [3:42] whether it's city council person or president of the United States, they come out. [3:47] They're coming to get you, which is now why we don't get good people running for office anymore, because they go back to high school and see what you did back then. [3:53] So I'm not surprised that once Trump goes from being a TV star and a real estate magnet to being president of the United States, all these people come out. [4:01] And, yeah, it's a mutually beneficial society, and they're there to help each other. [4:05] To me, the anxiety of Michael Cohen spoke to the pressure assumed from Trump. [4:13] So, I mean, that's the only reason that that matters. [4:15] But the other thing I would just note, I mean, the Karen McDougal story is not over. [4:19] This is just the beginning of what we will learn about this Karen McDougal story. [4:24] And when you look at the charging documents here for Trump, there are some hints about where this goes next. [4:31] David Pecker ends up paying her, but at some point, he decides to not get reimbursed from Trump world. [4:37] And I'm curious as to why that happened. [4:39] So this is the opening salvo, but there's more to come. [4:41] So, again, you're not going to find the crime A to Z found in any one paragraph of testimony. [4:48] Prosecutors have to build a case here. [4:49] And I think two things jump out at me from that transcript. [4:52] One, this is a full nine alarm fire in Trump world and in the National Enquirer in Pecker's environment. [4:58] They are, I mean, they're pulling each other out of meetings. [5:01] They're borderline panicking. [5:02] The other thing is it establishes a really important chain of communication, because this is one of the rare instances, there's a few, where David Pecker has direct contact with Donald Trump. [5:10] Most of it's with Michael Cohen. [5:12] And the weakness that Arthur just pointed out is, well, how do you know that Michael Cohen was truly acting on Donald Trump's behalf? [5:19] You can't assume. [5:20] You're right. [5:21] And maybe Michael Cohen was just a free agent. [5:23] I mean, Michael Cohen's not super reliable. [5:24] But the chain here is David Pecker makes contact with Donald Trump, who essentially hands him off to Michael Cohen, says, Cohen's going to handle this. [5:33] You two go and do your thing. [5:34] I'll have Michael Cohen call you back in a few days. [5:37] One of the things, though, that David Pecker said today, and correct me if I'm wrong on the stand, was that, according to him, Trump was very detail oriented and actually paid attention to a lot of the mundane details of this transaction. [5:54] He's not saying that he was aware that the line item was a legal fee, but he's indicating Trump was very much involved in this. [6:04] And what you just read, John, also backs that up, that, according to Cohen, and what Cohen will probably testify, is that Donald Trump is breathing down his neck very closely following the Karen McDougal situation. [6:14] And he talked about how he would sit with Trump in Trump Tower on the 26th floor, and Trump's assistant at the time would come in and bring him invoices and checks, which I thought was a really notable moment. [6:25] I have that. [6:26] I can read that. [6:26] And Donald Trump would sign it. [6:28] I can read that. [6:28] This is from page 1002 of the transcript, signing checks. [6:32] Steinglass, Joshua Steinglass, the prosecutor, asks, did you have occasion over the years to observe Mr. Trump's business practices? [6:39] Pecker responds, yes. [6:41] Josh Steinglass asks, in what context? [6:43] Pecker responds, I was, I had a meeting with Mr. Trump in his office, and when I was there, his assistant, Rona, brought in a batch of invoices and checks to sign, and I observed Mr. Trump, and I noticed that he reviewed the invoice and looked at the check, and then he would, he was signing them. [6:58] That tells you a couple of things. [7:00] First of all, it's very important that the prosecution established that Donald Trump signed, knew what the corporate records were. [7:10] That's what this whole case is about. [7:12] The other thing that tells you is that David Pecker is not on Team Trump. [7:17] He didn't have to give that kind of testimony. [7:20] That was, he was burying Donald Trump with that. [7:23] You know, when I interview. [7:23] Why, Jeffrey? [7:24] Why? [7:25] I agree with you, but why? [7:26] I'll tell you exactly, I'll tell you one good reason, because in 2000. [7:30] Because when the shark moves on, there were more fishes all alone. [7:33] Well, okay, I agree with you, but he could also be, they could have figured out a way to charge him. [7:38] But, but wait a second, you know, David Pecker. [7:42] I feel like we're putting the horse before the cart. [7:43] I mean, this is witness number one. [7:44] He hasn't even been cross-examined yet. [7:46] There is still a lot of road left to go here, and I think what they're establishing, though, is that Trump paid very close attention to what we all know, his finances. [7:53] He doesn't part easily with his money. [7:55] I was looking, Karen McDougal wrote a lot down about her relationship with Trump when they were having this alleged affair, which Trump denies. [8:02] But she wrote down that Trump was so careful with his money, and he was so worried about creating a paper trail of their relationship, that she would book her travel when they would meet places, and Trump would reimburse her. [8:11] Let's just step back for a second. [8:14] If a married guy is having an affair and having sex, allegedly, with a porn star, and it's starting to unravel, he's going to pay very close attention, I would imagine, to every detail of how this is being hushed up. [8:33] I mean, is this not just, this is not something you would, I don't care if he's the top executive of whatever, you would think, this is actually something I would actually want to know all the details of. [8:45] And that's why. [8:46] Is this, he wanted to know, he wanted, he, he says at one point to Michael Cohen, this has to be paid in cash, doesn't he? [8:53] I mean, at one point, he's talking about this needing to be done in cash. [8:56] That's on a tape that Michael, that we're going to hear soon in this trial. [8:59] Michael Cohen secretly recorded Donald Trump, a shady move, by the way. [9:03] I asked, I had four defense lawyers in the green room with me today, I said, have you ever even thought about doing this? [9:07] I'm just saying, if you've done something that threatens your marriage, are you going to leave it up to Michael Cohen to handle every detail without checking, like, being an overlord on him? [9:16] That's what a common sense, rational person would do, but the tape that we're talking about here, that Michael Cohen makes of Donald Trump, actually suggests Donald Trump is like, just get it done. [9:25] He's not in the weeds. [9:26] In fact, at one point, Michael Cohen says, no, no, no, no, no, I got it. [9:29] Alan and I are going to handle, you don't worry about it, we're going to pay him, you don't worry about the how. [9:33] And the how is the crime. [9:34] So when that tape comes up, that's going to be a problem for the prosecutors. [9:37] Well, I also think that, you know, part of the thing about Trump paying attention to details is more to what Caitlin was saying, which is the amount of money, even for a very rich person like Donald Trump, he didn't really want to part ways with $150,000 for Karen McDougal, $130,000 for Stormy. [9:52] He did not want to part ways with that money. [9:54] He still hesitates to pay his attorneys. [9:56] He tried to get out of it once the election was over. [9:58] So it's really about the dollars here that was concerning to him.