Can King Charles change Trump's mind about the UK? — Global News Podcast

[0:00] Hello and welcome to the Global News Podcast from the BBC. I'm Nick Miles and I'm joined by our [0:05] diplomatic correspondent James Landale. James, the King, is in the United States. Many people [0:12] have said he's going to be walking a diplomatic tightrope. What's at stake? [0:17] Well, relations between the United States and the United Kingdom at the moment are not great. [0:21] There are disagreements over the war in Iran, over the future of the NATO military alliance, [0:26] how much support Ukraine should have in its defence against Russia's full-scale invasion. [0:32] There are disputes over trade and the Americans have even dragged up the old issue of Britain's [0:40] connections to its overseas territory of the Falkland Islands in the South Atlantic. So at the [0:47] moment, you know, the relationship is not great. So at stake in this state visit by the king is [0:54] essentially whether or not he can take some of the heat out of the relationship and out of some [1:00] of the tensions at the moment and just put things back on a straighter keel. [1:05] So, James, can the king's visit change Donald Trump's view of Keir Starmer and the UK as a whole? [1:14] No. Donald Trump's mind is made up by Donald Trump and it is a mind that, as we know, varies [1:21] from time to time. So even if this trip goes really well and Donald Trump has a warm, [1:27] fuzzy feeling about the British state and the monarch and the king, how long that sustains, [1:34] I think, will be an open question. What the king can do is change the tone, can change the feel, [1:42] the atmosphere. But he's not going to in any way change Donald Trump's view on the war in Iran, [1:48] support for Ukraine or anything specific like that, because that's not what the king is there to do. [1:54] The king is there just to pour some oil on some troubled waters by reminding the American system [2:01] and the White House and the president personally that this is a long relationship that's two and [2:07] a half centuries old. And it was forged in rebellion and war. It has had repeated rows and disputes, [2:15] whether that is the protectionism of the 1930s, the entry into the Second World War, [2:22] the Suez crisis. Even Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan, who were the closest of British [2:28] and American leaders, even they fell out over the American military operation on the island of [2:33] Grenada. The point the king will make is throughout all of that, the relationship has endured. And I [2:40] think if you can get that idea into the mind of the White House and into the mind of the president, [2:45] then that would have potentially some sustained diplomatic value. What the king will not do is [2:51] change the president's minds on specific issues. [2:53] To what extent have there been examples in the past of the king appearing to push back [2:58] against some of the views of Donald Trump? [3:01] Oh, the king is perfectly capable of expressing his opinion, but in a very implicit way rather than [3:07] explicit way. So I don't think we're going to see any clashes, certainly in public here. He's not, [3:12] you know, he's not here to argue the government's case. He is in Washington to be as a meeting of one [3:19] head of state to another. However, in recent months, for example, when Donald Trump has [3:25] expressed a desire for the United States to take over control of Canada, which remember is one of [3:33] the king's realms, the king has made very clear by inviting Canadian politicians to various events [3:40] and things like that of his opinion on that. And crucially, secondly, when Donald Trump recently [3:44] belittled the sacrifice of British servicemen and women in the Afghanistan war, the king, we understand, [3:52] made his views very, very clear in private that he considered this to be an unacceptable, you know, [3:59] sort of form of disrespect to British sacrifice. [4:03] What are the limits of royal diplomacy here? [4:06] The king is not a negotiator. He's not going to sit there and say, Mr. President, you need to change your [4:10] policy on this. That's not what it's going to be about. His job will simply be to say, without being [4:17] explicit, but by being implicit, look, when the UK and the US have done best together over the last [4:23] 250 years, it's when they've been on the same page. There are some shared values, rule of law, [4:31] democratic traditions, things like that. The first time he met a president in the Oval Office was in 1970, [4:36] when he met President Nixon. So he has an awful lot of experience of UK-US relations. And also, [4:43] of course, he is the direct descendant of the monarch, whose tyranny is condemned at length [4:49] in the US Declaration of Independence, which everyone is, which this whole visit is designed [4:54] to celebrate. [4:54] And it's important as well, you mentioned that there's a certain amount of stage management [4:58] to this. What we're not going to see is a joint press conference. We're not going to see any meeting [5:04] between the king and victims of Jeffrey Epstein. These are things that are going to be steered away [5:09] from. It is very stage managed in many ways, isn't it? [5:14] Oh, yeah. But all state visits are stage managed. This one, though, slightly more so, simply because [5:21] the palace, we believe, has succeeded in persuading the White House that there should be no live press [5:28] conferences. In other words, those famous moments when leaders are sat next door to the president [5:32] in the Oval Office and the cameras are there and the media and away they go. That is, as [5:38] far as we understand, is not going to happen. Who knows what will happen? There's always [5:43] the possibility for those plans to change. But the design is to minimise the political [5:48] risk. And the thing is, the president, I think we're led to believe, understands that, that [5:52] somehow the king is separate to politics. And on the evidence of the two state visits by [5:58] Mr. Trump, to the United Kingdom, he has always attempted to sort of follow the rules and doesn't [6:05] want to be seen in any way to break those rules. Whether that survives on his home turf, we shall [6:11] see. It is not popular amongst some people in the United Kingdom for the king to go there [6:17] in the first place. Are there political risks for him? [6:20] Yeah, I mean, look, I think the palace is acutely aware that you're right, that too much flattery [6:26] for the president would be would be perhaps not a good thing. But on the other hand, it [6:32] is not the job of the British monarch to choose which heads of state from other countries he [6:37] engages with. That is something, you know, he is there and has been and the palace has made [6:42] this very explicit that the king is there at the request of the British government. So it's [6:46] not a decision that the king has made to go to the United States. And I think that that [6:52] distinction, I think, is one that they will try to maintain throughout this trip, that it's [6:58] one thing to maintain good relations with the United States, but it's the other to be seen [7:01] to get too close to a president who is unpopular amongst the, you know, in the minds of many [7:06] British voters. [7:07] Some people in Britain would like to think that there is a so-called special relationship [7:11] still existing between London and Washington. To what extent do people in America and in [7:19] the minds of Donald Trump, does there still exist this special relationship? [7:24] Well, when other heads of state come to the White House, there is always talk about the [7:29] unique relationship or the longstanding relationship or the powerful relationship. People find their [7:34] own adjectives. The special relationship is by and large something that has been put to bed. [7:38] And in American eyes, it sort of looks a bit needy. And America's, you know, the difference [7:46] in status of power between the United Kingdom and the United States has been apparent, you [7:51] know, for many, many years. [7:54] So I think what is different about the UK and the US is that obviously the UK is the former [7:59] colonial power. And there are many Americans, you know, who still look back to the UK as something [8:05] that they have an engagement with, a link to. But what's really interesting is that, you know, [8:10] there are different views within that. There are some within, you know, the American community [8:15] who look to the UK as a sort of, as a voice of the Anglosphere, sort of modern Protestant, [8:21] Northern European country with whom they can have a sort of link. Others in the MAGA camp [8:26] in the United States kind of look upon, you know, times the UK slightly as a sort of perhaps [8:33] a slight more old fashioned fantasy view, historical view from films and television shows of, you [8:40] know, Downton Abbey and things like that, that that is a little bit of a fantasy view of the [8:46] UK. And they have repeatedly made it clear that they think the UK is going to the dogs because [8:51] it's not been run properly. They oppose the multicultural nature of the UK. At the moment, [8:56] they say that there's too much immigration. There's lots of misinformation about the scale [9:01] of crime in London and things like that, that has been part of the tensions between the UK and the US, [9:06] particularly from the supporters of Donald Trump and the MAGA crowd, that has been based on a mistaken [9:12] view of the UK. And I think that's something that the question will be, you know, having a hereditary [9:18] monarch go to the United States, you know, will that counter that impression? I'm not sure. [9:23] But the man whose opinion matters most, Donald Trump's, he's very keen on meeting a monarch. He [9:29] sees it as a great example of his status being in a room with a monarch like the king. It's his opinion [9:38] that really matters. And having a conduit in the room with Donald Trump is incredibly important, [9:45] not just for Britain, but for perhaps other countries around the world, that they'd love [9:49] messages to be got through to Donald Trump that can't be got through in any other way. [9:55] Look, I think it's absolutely right that the UK has an extraordinary advantage here in having a [10:00] monarch and a head of state who is close to Donald Trump at a time when Donald Trump is losing friends [10:06] fast amongst his former Western allies. You see the Germans, you see the Italians, you see the French [10:13] and others all more willing to speak out. That era of trying to please Donald Trump that [10:19] characterised the diplomacy of the first few months of this second term of office for him [10:25] has now been replaced by a much more robust willing to counter and challenge and push back [10:30] against the views of the White House. We've seen that that has costs in terms of the state of the [10:36] relationship between the UK and the US, for example, at odds over Iran. But having a monarch who can go [10:42] back there and perhaps put a little bit of weight on the other side of the scale is no bad thing. [10:48] The test will be this. If this goes, this trip goes well. And if, you know, there are lots of warm [10:53] words and nice pictures and pictures of American politicians applauding him in Congress and things [10:58] like that. If everything goes well, the test will be can both governments leverage that soft power [11:04] into something more meaningful afterwards? Because if in a couple of weeks Donald Trump is once again [11:09] badmouthing the British Prime Minister about a policy disagreement, then questions will be asked. [11:14] What was the point of this state visit? Where where was the real impact of this soft power diplomacy? [11:21] Thanks, James. That was the BBC's diplomatic correspondent, James Landale. And if you want [11:26] to hear more from the Global News podcast, just click the link below. Thanks for joining us.