Adm. William McRaven reflects on American spirit and the nation’s future in new book

[0:00] U.S. Navy Admiral William McRaven served for nearly four decades in a highly decorated career, [0:05] from Navy SEAL to commander of the Joint Special Operations Command. [0:09] Since then, he's been a chancellor of a major university system at the University of Texas, [0:14] a professor at their LBJ school, and a best-selling author. [0:18] And while history holds a place for him as the man behind the high-stakes raid that brought [0:23] Osama bin Laden to justice, McRaven is also widely known for his 2014 speech, [0:29] Make Your Bed, which went viral. Many of his speeches are collected in his new book called [0:34] Duty, Honor, Country, and Life. And he joins us now. Admiral, welcome to the news. [0:39] It's great to be with you. Thanks. [0:39] Thanks for being here. I do want to lean into your expertise while we have you and ask you [0:44] about this ongoing war in Iran, because we've heard President Trump predict the war would be over soon, [0:49] a matter of days, a matter of weeks. Just yesterday, he said, don't rush me, [0:53] when he was asked about a timeline. How long do you think this war is going to continue? [0:57] You know, right now, I think it depends on how long we want to continue to enforce the blockade. [1:04] The problem we have right now is the Iranians don't really want to come to the negotiating table [1:08] until we lift the blockade. Conversely, President Trump doesn't want to lift the blockade because [1:13] that's really his leverage. So somebody's going to have to blink. Now, they are talking about the [1:17] foreign minister coming to Pakistan to meet with Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner. And so maybe there [1:23] will be some progress there. But at the end of the day, the president has to get to a point, [1:28] what I think is a strategic point, where the straits are open back in, and he somehow gets [1:33] the Iranians to agree not to enrich the Iranians beyond a certain point. That's only going to happen, [1:39] I think, if at some point in time we lift the blockade. Now, you can lift the blockade for the [1:43] ceasefire and then flip a switch and turn it right back on if the Iranians don't comply. [1:47] I mean, this does have some hallmarks of what I'd call cautionary tales of the past, [1:53] right? We have no really clear goal-shifting timelines. Do you worry this is going to just [1:57] turn into another prolonged conflict? Yeah, I don't think it'll be terribly [2:01] prolonged. But it's certainly going to go on for another couple of weeks and maybe a month or so. [2:06] Again, this is because we are at this impasse. And I know what will happen at the negotiations, [2:11] we will say, these are the things we want done. And the Iranians will say, [2:14] no, we don't agree to that. If you look at the JCPOA, it took 18 months to negotiate the JCPOA, [2:21] the nuclear plan under the Obama administration. And that was people that were professional [2:26] negotiators. So this idea that somehow with a couple of meetings between a representative from [2:32] Iran and a couple of representatives from the U.S., that somehow we're going to magically kind [2:36] of come to an agreement. I hope so. I mean, I hope that plays out. I hope they open the straits back up. [2:41] I hope the Iranians kind of settle down a little bit. But hope is not a strategy. So again, [2:48] I think the president can use the blockade as a little bit of leverage to get what he needs. [2:52] I want to ask you about this book and the title specifically, because it comes from a quote from [2:56] General MacArthur, the duty, honor, and country part. You added the word life, though. Tell me about [3:01] that. Why? Well, in MacArthur's 1962 speech to West Point, he talks about duty, honor, country. [3:08] And it's a, if you haven't heard it, it's a fabulous speech. And he's 82 years old. So this [3:14] is, you know, he is an old man reflecting on his time really as a soldier. But he says duty, honor, [3:19] country. He says these three hallowed words are what you ought to be, what you can be, and what you [3:24] will be. And he says they are, they're rallying points to build courage when courage seems to fail, [3:30] to regain faith when you lose faith, and to give you hope when hope is forlorn. And so when I thought [3:37] about, hey, how do you build courage, or how do you inspire people with courage and faith and hope? [3:42] But I realized there's a little bit of life as well. We not only want to talk about duty, [3:47] honor, and country, but we all have lives to lead that kind of go beyond some of that. And it was [3:52] important, I think, to add life because we ought to reflect duty on our country within our lives. [3:57] You do write in the book this one line, you write, we're far from perfect as a nation, [4:01] but our values are as close to perfect as any nation is going to come. It also seems like we're [4:08] in a moment where some of those values are sort of up for debate, right? At least up for discussion. [4:12] Who gets to be an American? What should be America's place in the world? Do we still have [4:17] shared values in this country right now? Yeah, I think we do. I'm kind of the eternal optimist. [4:22] And sometimes I get accused of being too optimistic and too Pollyannish, but far from it. I mean, I have [4:29] traveled the world. I spend four days a week on the road meeting with young people all across the [4:36] country, and they still have these values. Their parents, their guardians, their teachers, [4:41] their coaches are still trying to instill in the young men and women, and some of us older folks, [4:46] these values of equality and justice and the rule of law and civility and perseverance. Things that I [4:53] think are important for all of us to have. At the end of the day, we as Americans, I think, [4:58] still believe we want to be the good guys. I know every soldier, sailor, airman, marine out there, [5:04] everybody in the government service wants to be the good guys in the world. So while you see it coming [5:10] from Washington, and if all you do is watch the 24-hour news cycle, or you listen to one of the right or [5:15] left side, you feel like we've lost our way. But when you speak with a lot of the other people in [5:21] the country, I think we're doing okay, actually. You also wrote in an op-ed, I should note, back in [5:26] 2019, it was a title, the op-ed was titled, Our Republic is Under Attack by the President. And you [5:33] talked about a lot of the things you talk about in the book now, about defending U.S. values abroad, [5:37] about the abandoning of allies, the attacks on democratic institutions. And you said in that back then [5:43] that if this president doesn't demonstrate the leadership America needs, it's time for a new [5:47] person in the Oval Office. That was back in Trump's first term. What do you make of his second? [5:52] Well, I'm certainly not a fan of the president. I don't think that comes as a surprise to anybody. [5:58] But at this point in time, and I've been very careful because we are at war, so I want to make [6:03] sure that any of the military officers enlisted that are out there that are listening, they have an [6:08] obligation to fill their oath. And they have an obligation to the president of the United States [6:12] as the commander in chief. And while I personally don't like the president, and I'm not thrilled [6:16] with Secretary Heggseth, we have a responsibility to follow lawful orders. Now, if it's not a lawful [6:23] order, then you also have a responsibility not to follow it. But I think at this point in time, [6:28] until we can get past this conflict, again, the military needs to be aligned, get the job done [6:34] for the American people. You include a lot of poetry in this book, which may surprise people. [6:39] And we talked a little bit about our shared love of poetry, but poetry your mother shared with you, [6:43] poetry you yourself write. There's a poem in there called Departing Afghanistan, which you know, [6:47] it was written before the Taliban had reclaimed power in 2021. But there's a line in there that [6:52] struck me. You said, the fight was a good one, noble and right. I wonder how you look at this [6:57] moment we're in now, when the U.S. is considering sending hundreds of Afghans, interpreters, [7:02] and others who helped us in the U.S. effort to Afghanistan or to the Democratic Republic of [7:07] Congo, not the U.S. Yeah, that's painful. I hope that doesn't happen. I mean, the Afghans that [7:14] supported the U.S. military, much like the Iraqis that supported the U.S. military, we need to take [7:19] care of them as well as we took care of our soldiers. The fact of the matter is, these young men and women [7:23] that were translators, that were with us on the battlefield, they deserve the exact same support [7:29] that our soldiers coming back home to. And it would be a tragedy, a tragedy. And again, [7:34] would not put America in a good light if we send these Afghan refugees to the DRC or back to [7:41] Afghanistan. You write in the book about some intensely personal poems, too, which strike me [7:47] because in contrast to a lot of the speeches that you have in there, which are about country and duty [7:52] and honor, these seem to be really personal to you. One in particular about your mother, in which you [7:57] write, she died too young to see me grow into the man who on bended knee she prayed and prayed for [8:03] me to be. I just wonder why you chose to share that with everyone. Yeah, you know, it's, of course, [8:08] as I told you, it's not good for my tough guy seal image to be writing poetry. But I've written poetry [8:14] my whole life. I just haven't put it in a bounded copy. And as you know, poetry can be pretty cathartic. [8:20] And of course, it can be very personal. And my mother died when I was 30. And at the time, I was a Navy [8:26] lieutenant. She probably didn't think I had much of a career. I was married with two young kids at [8:30] the time. And I was struggling. And she passed away from lung cancer. And I like to think since [8:36] that time, the trajectory of my life has gone in a very good direction. And so I think she's still [8:40] looking out after me. Admiral Bill McRaven, the book is Duty, Honor, Country, and Life. Thank you so [8:46] much for being here today. My pleasure. Great to be with you.