Accused killer Caylen Deller takes stand, says killed in self-defense — Full Testimony

[00:00:00] Speaker ?: Can I ask the money you shot in this? I'll give you the truth. [00:00:02] Speaker 1: I'll give you that. Yes. [00:00:10] Speaker 2: Please introduce-- sorry. Please introduce yourself to the jury. [00:00:13] Speaker 1: Katelyn Deller. [00:00:15] Speaker 2: How old are you? [00:00:15] Speaker 1: 32. [00:00:19] Speaker 2: What kind of work do you do? [00:00:21] Speaker 1: A ride and lesson instructor. [00:00:23] Speaker 2: How long have you been doing that? [00:00:25] Speaker 1: On and off for 18 years. [00:00:28] Speaker 2: Where did you live in September of 2024? [00:00:30] Speaker 1: On Smith Lane in San Mateo. [00:00:35] Speaker 2: I'm going to ask you about a couple people that were involved in this case. Do you know Ken Waddell? [00:00:39] Speaker 1: Yes, I do. [00:00:41] Speaker 2: How long have you known Ken? [00:00:42] Speaker 1: About seven years. [00:00:45] Speaker 2: How did you meet Ken? [00:00:46] Speaker 1: My boyfriend and I, at the time, was renting a room from him. [00:00:50] Speaker 2: And where was that? [00:00:51] Speaker 1: River Road in Itzapalaca. [00:00:54] Speaker 2: What kind of relationship did you have with Ken at that time? [00:00:57] Speaker 1: Landlord tenant. [00:01:01] Speaker 2: How often did you see Ken at that time when you were renting the room? [00:01:05] Speaker 1: Pretty much daily. [00:01:08] Speaker 2: Did you all live under the same roof? [00:01:10] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:01:14] Speaker 2: How long did you have that living arrangement? [00:01:16] Speaker 1: A few months. [00:01:18] Speaker 2: What changed? [00:01:19] Speaker 1: My boyfriend and I broke up and Ken was going to move and offered that I move with him and continue to rent a room. [00:01:24] Speaker 3: She was having a hard time here in her community. [00:01:27] Speaker 1: Can you get a phone call? Yes, ma'am. [00:01:33] Speaker 2: Did you have OSTARA at that time? [00:01:35] Speaker 1: No, I was pregnant with her. [00:01:37] Speaker 2: Did your relationship with Ken change after moving? [00:01:42] Speaker 1: Yes, we became closer and started to date. [00:01:45] Speaker 2: How long were you in a relationship with Ken? [00:01:48] Speaker 1: About two years. [00:01:50] Speaker 2: Why did it end? [00:01:52] Speaker 1: Disagreements about how we should run our business. [00:01:54] Speaker 2: And what business was that? [00:01:56] Speaker 1: A Riding lesson, horse training business. [00:02:01] Speaker 2: How was your relationship with Ken after you broke up? [00:02:04] Speaker 1: Strained. We didn't talk a whole lot while he lived in Bradenton. But then he moved back up towards Elkton and had a job with housing and offered me the same opportunity. [00:02:13] Speaker 2: Did you move in with him? [00:02:14] Speaker 1: I did. [00:02:15] Speaker 2: Did you get back in a relationship with him? [00:02:18] Speaker 1: No, sir. [00:02:22] Speaker 2: Do you know Tina Marie Lee Ellis? [00:02:23] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:02:24] Speaker 2: And how do you know her? [00:02:26] Speaker 1: Through giving her niece riding lessons. [00:02:28] Speaker 2: How long have you known Tina? [00:02:31] Speaker 1: About three years. [00:02:33] Speaker 2: What kind of relationship did you have with Tina? [00:02:37] Speaker 1: At first, she just kind of came by the barn, but eventually we became close and we were friends and she would watch her star for me sometimes. [00:02:44] Speaker 2: Now, do you know Michelle Roberts? [00:02:47] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:02:48] Speaker 2: And how did you know Michelle? [00:02:49] Speaker 1: Through giving her granddaughter riding lessons. Did she have a nickname? [00:02:52] Speaker 2: It was Mickey. [00:02:53] Speaker 1: It was Mickey. [00:02:56] Speaker 2: How long did you know Mickey? [00:02:58] Speaker 1: About three years. [00:03:04] Speaker 2: Did you call Mickey on September 9th? [00:03:06] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:03:07] Speaker 2: About what time did you call her? [00:03:09] Speaker 1: Around noon. [00:03:10] Speaker 2: Why did you call her? [00:03:11] Speaker 1: Because I had a horse that was choking and I was trying to take care of feeding the horses, take care of him and watch her star at the same time and I needed help. [00:03:19] Speaker 2: Have that ever happened before? [00:03:22] Speaker 1: Yes, but when it happened before either Caitlin or Chad was there. [00:03:26] Speaker 2: Now Mickey said you were upset when you called. Why were you upset? [00:03:32] Speaker 1: Because my horse was choking and I loved him. I didn't want something to happen to him. [00:03:37] Speaker 2: Why didn't you ask Ken to come and get her? [00:03:40] Speaker 1: He was in Illinois. [00:03:42] Speaker 2: Was he living there? [00:03:43] Speaker 1: As far as I knew, yes, sir. [00:03:45] Speaker 2: Why didn't you ask Chad? [00:03:47] Speaker 1: His truck had broke down. [00:03:49] Speaker 2: What about your assistant? [00:03:51] Speaker 1: I didn't have one at the time. [00:03:56] Speaker 2: Did Mickey come to get Ostara? [00:03:58] Speaker 1: No, sir. She was on a cruise out of the country and I couldn't hardly hear her on the phone. [00:04:04] Speaker 2: What did you do about the horse? [00:04:06] Speaker 1: I was tending to him and trying to, I put off feeding and was watching Ostara as best I could, but then Tina showed up at the bar and I guess Mickey called her. [00:04:14] Speaker 2: What did Tina do once she showed up? [00:04:18] Speaker 1: Took her star at her house to watch her. [00:04:21] Speaker 2: Was that the only time that you called Michelle that day? [00:04:26] Speaker 1: No, I'd called her later that day too. [00:04:29] Speaker 2: Why did you call her later that evening? [00:04:31] Speaker 1: Because I couldn't find Tina's house. [00:04:42] Speaker 2: Did you know Rebecca Davis? [00:04:44] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:04:45] Speaker 2: How did you know Rebecca? [00:04:47] Speaker 1: I met her, I was riding a horse to a Dollar General parking lot. She asked if her girls could pet my horse and then I eventually began giving them lessons. [00:04:56] Speaker 2: How long have you known Rebecca? [00:04:58] Speaker 1: About six years. [00:05:01] Speaker 2: What kind of relationship did you have with Rebecca? [00:05:03] Speaker 1: We were friends. [00:05:05] Speaker 2: Did you allow her to watch Ostara? [00:05:07] Speaker 1: She's watched her before. [00:05:11] Speaker 2: Did you know Chad Mullen? [00:05:12] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:05:13] Speaker 2: When did you meet Chad? July 2023. How long did you know him? About a year. How did you meet him? [00:05:25] Speaker 1: Through a friend and we exchanged phone numbers. [00:05:28] Speaker 2: What kind of relationship did you have with Chad? [00:05:32] Speaker 1: Good, we were good friends at first and then we began dating. When did you begin dating? [00:05:37] Speaker 2: November 2023. [00:05:39] Speaker 1: At any point did you live together? [00:05:43] Speaker 2: Yes, sir. When did you live together? [00:05:46] Speaker 1: I moved in about that time in November. [00:05:49] Speaker 2: Moved in to the place on Barden? [00:05:52] Speaker 1: Yes, sir, 128 Keystone. [00:05:54] Speaker 2: How was your relationship at that time? [00:05:57] Speaker 1: At first it was still good and then later on we started to have problems. [00:06:04] Speaker 2: How long were you dating? [00:06:06] Speaker 1: The first time we broke up was in February 2024, but I didn't really move out. [00:06:11] Speaker 2: What do you mean you didn't really move out? [00:06:13] Speaker 1: I packed my stuff and took it to the barn, but he offered that I stay in the house on the property. [00:06:18] Speaker 2: So was there a house on the property where he had his fifth wheel or RV? [00:06:24] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. It was next to it. [00:06:26] Speaker 2: Okay. And you stayed in the house? Yes, sir. He wasn't living in the house? [00:06:32] Speaker 1: No, sir. He was trying to renovate the house, but he lived in the RV. [00:06:36] Speaker 2: Did you eventually move back into the RV? [00:06:39] Speaker ?: I did. [00:06:43] Speaker 2: How long did you stay in the RV this time? [00:06:46] Speaker 1: Until April when I moved out and got an apartment. [00:06:49] Speaker 2: What happened this time? Why did you move out? [00:06:52] Speaker 1: We were having disagreements about him talking to his ex-girlfriend April. [00:07:03] Speaker 2: Sounds like you guys had kind of an on-again, off-again relationship. [00:07:07] Speaker 1: Yes, sir, we did. [00:07:09] Speaker 2: Why is that? [00:07:11] Speaker 1: He kept talking to April even when I'd ask him not to. And he said that I worked too much and that would cause disagreements. [00:07:18] Speaker 2: Why didn't you just break up and go your separate ways? [00:07:21] Speaker 1: We needed to, but there was still an attachment there. [00:07:27] Speaker 2: After you moved out, did you ever move back into the RV with him? [00:07:31] Speaker 1: No, sir. I stayed there a lot, but I never fully moved back in. [00:07:35] Speaker 2: Did you remain broken up? [00:07:36] Speaker 1: No, sir. We were on again, off again. [00:07:41] Speaker 2: You said there was still an attachment. What do you mean by that? [00:07:45] Speaker 1: We probably needed to go our separate ways, but we still tried to make it work. [00:07:51] Speaker 2: How did your relationship change after you broke up? [00:07:54] Speaker 1: He became verbally abusive and violent. [00:07:56] Speaker 2: What do you mean by verbally abusive? [00:07:59] Speaker 1: Cussing at me, calling me names, screaming, threatening me. [00:08:03] Speaker 2: What do you mean by violent? [00:08:05] Speaker 1: Pushing me, spitting in my face, threatening me and stopping by my property. [00:08:10] Speaker ?: Which property? [00:08:11] Speaker 1: Stormy Stables. [00:08:14] Speaker 2: So when you moved out, where did you move after you left the RV? [00:08:18] Speaker 1: Smith Lane in San Mateo. [00:08:21] Speaker 2: Did he find out where you were living? [00:08:26] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:08:27] Speaker 2: How did you find out where you were living? [00:08:30] Speaker 1: He picked me up on a boat one day. [00:08:33] Speaker 2: Was your place on the river? [00:08:35] Speaker 1: Yes, sir, it was. [00:08:36] Speaker 2: Was that on Duns Creek? [00:08:37] Speaker 1: Yes. [00:08:39] Speaker 2: Was that the one that Michelle rented to you? [00:08:41] Speaker 1: It was. [00:08:46] Speaker 2: Did Chad ever come over to your house? [00:08:49] Speaker ?: Yes, sir. [00:08:49] Speaker 1: I had invited him over before. There was a time where he came over at 4:30. [00:09:03] Speaker 3: Jack, this sounds awesome. [00:09:11] Speaker 2: Would Chad still call you after you've broken up? [00:09:15] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:09:17] Speaker 2: How often would he call you? [00:09:19] Speaker 1: Almost every day. [00:09:21] Speaker 2: Would you call him? [00:09:22] Speaker 1: Sometimes. A lot of times I would ask him to quit blowing up my phone. [00:09:28] Speaker 2: When you asked him to stop, what would he do? [00:09:30] Speaker 1: Scream at me, cuss at me. [00:09:34] Speaker 2: How would you deal with him calling and texting you all the time? [00:09:37] Speaker 1: I would block his number. [00:09:39] Speaker 2: Would you keep the number blocked? [00:09:42] Speaker 1: No, sir. I often unblock it. [00:09:45] Speaker 2: Why? [00:09:46] Speaker 1: Because after he calmed down, I wanted to be able to talk to him again. Because after he calmed down, I wanted to be able to talk to him again. [00:10:00] Speaker 2: Would he block your number? [00:10:01] Speaker 1: Not that I know of. Every time I called, it would go through. [00:10:05] Speaker 2: Did you ever find out if he got a new number? I figured out that he had. How did you figure that out? [00:10:13] Speaker 1: The consistency in which he was using this new number versus the other ones being sporadic. [00:10:18] Speaker 2: Did he ever tell you this is my new number? [00:10:21] Speaker 1: Not directly, no, sir. [00:10:23] Speaker 2: Did you ever block that new number? [00:10:25] Speaker 1: I may have and unblocked it. [00:10:32] Speaker 2: So it was not uncommon for you to block his number and then unblock it? [00:10:35] Speaker 1: Not at all. [00:10:38] Speaker 2: Why would you block and unblock his number? [00:10:41] Speaker 1: Because sometimes it would be too much for them threatening me and calling me names. But then after he would calm down, I would unblock him and we could resume talking. [00:10:49] Speaker 2: All right, so I want to talk to you about September 9th. Were you and Chad broken up at that time? Yes, sir. Did you have his number blocked? [00:11:00] Speaker 1: No, sir. [00:11:02] Speaker 2: Had you been talking? [00:11:04] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:11:07] Speaker 2: Did you communicate with him at all that day? [00:11:10] Speaker 1: I believe on and off since noon. [00:11:14] Speaker 2: Do you remember if you reached out to him or did he reach out to you? [00:11:17] Speaker 1: I don't remember who reached out to who first. [00:11:22] Speaker 2: This communication on the 9th, was it antagonistic? Were you not getting along? [00:11:28] Speaker 1: No, we were getting along. He was trying to borrow my truck. [00:11:31] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:11:32] Speaker 2: Did he tell you why? [00:11:34] Speaker 1: His head broke down. [00:11:40] Speaker 2: Was there a plan for you to come and get him? [00:11:43] Speaker ?: Yes, sir. [00:11:43] Speaker 1: I planned to go pick him up and let him borrow my truck. Originally, we were going to ride Fuller's, but it got late in the day, so we weren't going to do that. [00:11:52] Speaker 2: What time did you eventually meet up? [00:12:03] Speaker 1: Around 8:30 p.m. [00:12:05] Speaker 2: Did you pick him up at his house? [00:12:08] Speaker 1: Yes, sir, I did. [00:12:10] Speaker 2: Was Ostara with you? [00:12:11] Speaker 1: No, she was still at Tina's. [00:12:13] Speaker ?: Where did you go? [00:12:16] Speaker 1: To Stormy Stables. [00:12:18] Speaker 2: Why didn't you just go back to your place or stay at his? [00:12:22] Speaker 1: Because my truck was at my stables. [00:12:24] Speaker 2: Was there anything wrong with your truck? [00:12:34] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. The headlight was messed up and he was supposed to change it for me. [00:12:38] Speaker 2: Did he end up changing the headlight? [00:12:40] Speaker 1: He did. [00:12:42] Speaker 2: What happened after you, after he finished changing the headlight? [00:12:58] Speaker 1: He came around to the cab of truck to see if the headlights were working and that's when I told him I needed to ask him a question. [00:13:04] Speaker 2: What did you want to ask him? [00:13:05] Speaker 1: Since Ostara had been exhibiting some strange behavior, I asked him if he had messed with her. [00:13:12] Speaker 2: What do you mean by messed with her? [00:13:14] Speaker 1: Inappropriately touched her. [00:13:16] Speaker 2: Did he answer you? [00:13:17] Speaker 1: No, sir, he just became very angry. [00:13:20] Speaker ?: And then what happened? [00:13:22] Speaker 1: He had me pinned up against a truck, screaming in my face. What did you do? I tried to push him away and get past him, but when I did that he grabbed me by my throat and was choking me. [00:13:36] Speaker 2: Now, I want to show you a picture that's been entered into evidence. [00:13:42] Speaker ?: I'm going to show you a picture. [00:13:43] Speaker 2: I'm going to show you. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:13:48] Speaker ?: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:13:50] Speaker 2: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:13:52] Speaker ?: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:14:13] Speaker 2: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:14:15] Speaker 1: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:14:17] Speaker 2: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:14:20] Speaker ?: I'm going to show you a picture. [00:14:21] Speaker 2: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:14:37] Speaker 1: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:14:42] Speaker 2: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:14:44] Speaker 1: I'm going to show you a picture. [00:14:45] Speaker ?: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:15:07] Speaker 1: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:15:09] Speaker 2: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:15:12] Speaker ?: I'm going to show you a picture. [00:15:13] Speaker 1: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:15:16] Speaker 2: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:15:26] Speaker ?: I'm going to show you a picture. [00:15:37] Speaker 2: I'm going to show you a picture. [00:15:38] Speaker 1: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:15:40] Speaker ?: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:15:42] Speaker 2: I'm going to show you a picture. [00:15:43] Speaker 1: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:15:46] Speaker 2: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:15:48] Speaker 1: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:15:52] Speaker ?: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:15:54] Speaker 2: I'm going to show you a picture. I'm going to show you a picture. [00:15:56] Speaker 1: I'm going to show you a picture. [00:16:07] Speaker 2: You said the truck was along here? [00:16:09] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:16:10] Speaker 2: And where was the rail? [00:16:12] Speaker 1: Where that yellow sign is in that blue barrel. [00:16:15] Speaker 2: So right here? [00:16:16] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:16:18] Speaker 2: So you're saying he backed up to there and then he grabbed a hammer. And what did you do with that hammer? [00:16:24] Speaker 1: He was swinging it, coming towards me. [00:16:26] Speaker 2: What did you do? [00:16:28] Speaker 1: I pulled the trigger of the gun and shot him twice. I pulled the trigger, the gun went off twice. [00:16:34] Speaker 2: What did he do? [00:16:36] Speaker 1: He fell to the ground. [00:16:37] Speaker 2: What did you do next? [00:16:39] Speaker 1: I jumped in my truck and ran to Tina's. [00:16:45] Speaker 2: Why did you go to Tina's? [00:16:47] Speaker 1: Because it's where Astara was. [00:16:53] Speaker 2: Once you got to Tina's, did you tell her anything? [00:16:56] Speaker 1: I was just hysterical and told her that something happened at the barn and I needed her. [00:17:06] Speaker 2: What did you guys decide to do next? [00:17:10] Speaker 1: We went to the barn but part of me thought he would be gone when I got back. [00:17:15] Speaker 2: Was he? [00:17:16] Speaker 1: No, sir. [00:17:17] Speaker 2: Why did you think he'd be gone? [00:17:19] Speaker 1: I didn't know that I had shot him. I just knew he'd stop coming towards me and I was able to get away. [00:17:24] Speaker 2: Why did you shoot him? [00:17:26] Speaker 1: Because he was choking me and he came at me with a hammer. [00:17:29] Speaker 2: Were you afraid? [00:17:32] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. Extremely afraid. [00:17:34] Speaker 2: Why didn't you just run? [00:17:37] Speaker 1: Because I couldn't get past him the way he had me pinned against the truck. And while his hand was on my throat, I couldn't get away from him. [00:17:51] Speaker 2: So once you get back to the farm and you see that Chad hasn't left, what do you do? Check to see if he's breathing. Was he? [00:17:59] Speaker 1: No, sir. [00:18:01] Speaker 2: What did you do then? [00:18:03] Speaker 1: I told Tina we need to call 911. Did you? [00:18:06] Speaker 2: No, sir. [00:18:07] Speaker 1: No, sir. She convinced me not to, saying... [00:18:09] Speaker 3: I'm an object judge. This is all hearsay. I'm sustained. [00:18:14] Speaker 2: Why didn't you call 911? What happened to the gun? [00:18:27] Speaker 1: Tina took it. [00:18:29] Speaker 2: Were there any bullet casings? [00:18:31] Speaker 1: Yes, but she took those too. [00:18:34] Speaker 2: What decision was made to do with the body? [00:18:39] Speaker 1: She told me the best thing to do would be... I'm an object judge. [00:18:42] Speaker 2: Here, second. Staying. What was done with the body? [00:18:49] Speaker 1: Put him in the pond. [00:18:51] Speaker 2: What did you do after that? [00:18:54] Speaker 1: I was hysterical and upset and Tina told me to come take a shower at her house. [00:18:59] Speaker 2: Did you stay at Tina's the rest of the night? [00:19:02] Speaker 1: No, sir. She had somewhere to go. She had to go buy her job in her boyfriend's house and I was too scared to stay by myself so I rode with her. [00:19:10] Speaker 2: Where's her boyfriend live? [00:19:12] Speaker 1: In St. Augustine. [00:19:17] Speaker 2: Did you stop anywhere before you got to St. Augustine? [00:19:21] Speaker 1: Burns Farm. [00:19:22] Speaker 2: Why did you go there? [00:19:23] Speaker 1: She said that she had to collect money from there from working that day. Okay. [00:19:28] Speaker 2: Did you stop anywhere else between Burns Farm and the boyfriend's house? [00:19:33] Speaker 1: A Circle K to use the restroom. [00:19:38] Speaker 2: After you go to Tina's boyfriend's house, what do you do? [00:19:43] Speaker 1: I go back to her house. [00:19:45] Speaker 2: Did you have Chad's phone this whole time? Yes, sir. [00:19:51] Speaker 1: It had been left in my truck. [00:19:54] Speaker 2: When did you end up leaving Tina's house? The following day. Where did you go from there? My apartment. Why didn't you call 911 once you got away from Tina? [00:20:11] Speaker 1: Because I had believed her when she said that law enforcement wasn't going to listen to me about it being self-defense. [00:20:17] Speaker 2: When did you go back to the stable again? [00:20:21] Speaker 1: That following day. [00:20:23] Speaker 2: On the 10th? [00:20:24] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:20:25] Speaker 2: Did you still have Chad's phone at that point? [00:20:29] Speaker 1: Yes, I did. [00:20:31] Speaker 2: What did you do with it? [00:20:33] Speaker 1: I threw it in a fire. [00:20:34] Speaker 2: Why? [00:20:35] Speaker 1: Because I panicked. [00:20:40] Speaker 2: Now, after all this happened, did you just carry on with life as normal? [00:20:43] Speaker 1: No, sir. It was tormenting me and I was having nightmares and I couldn't sleep and I canceled all the lessons at my barn. [00:20:58] Speaker 2: Did anyone from Chad's family reach out to you? Yes, sir. [00:21:01] Speaker 1: Who? Kelly. What did you tell her? That I would let her know if I knew something. [00:21:08] Speaker 2: You didn't let her know? [00:21:10] Speaker 1: No, sir. [00:21:11] Speaker 2: Why not? [00:21:12] Speaker 1: Same reason. I didn't think she would believe me that it was self-defense. [00:21:19] Speaker 2: So you said you weren't giving lessons. Were you still going back and forth to the stable? Yes, sir. [00:21:24] Speaker 1: I still had animals to feed. [00:21:29] Speaker 2: Were you going there daily? [00:21:31] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. And that's when I noticed that his body had floated up. [00:21:36] Speaker 2: Was that on September 11th? [00:21:38] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:21:39] Speaker 2: What did you do? I called Tina. And what was the decision to do with the body at that point? To take him to Burns Farm. Had you ever been to Burns Farm other than the night of the 10th with Tina? No, sir. Were you familiar with that area? No, sir. Did you know how to drive a skid steer? No, sir. How did you get him out of the water? [00:22:09] Speaker 1: My full-wheeler. [00:22:12] Speaker 2: And what did you do with him once you got him out of the water? [00:22:15] Speaker 1: Use the horse trailer to transport him. [00:22:21] Speaker 2: Once you get to the farm, what do you do? Burns Farm. [00:22:25] Speaker 1: Pull up next to the house in the parking lot. [00:22:28] Speaker 2: Who decided where to put the body? [00:22:30] Speaker 1: Tina. [00:22:33] Speaker 2: Who dug the hole? [00:22:35] Speaker 1: Tina did. [00:22:36] Speaker 2: Who moved the dirt? [00:22:38] Speaker 1: Tina also did that. [00:22:39] Speaker 2: With a skid steer? Yes, sir. Or some type of equipment? [00:22:42] Speaker 1: I believe a skid steer. [00:22:47] Speaker 2: What did you do after burying the body at Burns Farm? [00:22:51] Speaker 1: I took the horse trailer back to the stables. [00:22:55] Speaker 2: Were people still reaching out to you trying to locate Chad? [00:22:58] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:23:00] Speaker 2: Why didn't you ever call 911? [00:23:03] Speaker 1: Because I believed her about law enforcement not listening to me. And at that point we'd hidden the body. [00:23:14] Speaker 2: Where did you get the gun? [00:23:15] Speaker 1: Rebecca Davis. [00:23:17] Speaker 2: Why did you get it? [00:23:19] Speaker 1: Because after Chad had broken my apartment, I felt vulnerable. [00:23:23] Speaker 2: When did that happen? [00:23:24] Speaker 1: August 1st, 2024. [00:23:25] Speaker 2: If Chad had scared you to the point where you needed to get a gun, why are you even talking to him? [00:23:36] Speaker 1: It's not so much that he scared me to the point of getting a gun as much as just him breaking in and made me feel vulnerable. [00:23:41] Speaker 2: Did you carry that gun on you all the time? [00:23:56] Speaker 1: I tried to, but not always. [00:24:00] Speaker 2: When you were going to loan that truck to Chad on the 9th, did you plan on leaving that gun in there? [00:24:05] Speaker 1: No, sir. I hadn't taken my possessions out yet. [00:24:11] Speaker 2: Did you go pick him up in the truck? [00:24:13] Speaker 1: No, sir. I used my car. [00:24:15] Speaker 2: So you had two vehicles? [00:24:16] Speaker 1: I did. [00:24:22] Speaker 2: Did you talk to Sean Russo after September 9th, I guess on the 13th? [00:24:27] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:24:29] Speaker 2: Did you tell him you suspected Chad of molesting Ostara? [00:24:32] Speaker 1: I may have. [00:24:35] Speaker 2: Did you say that you believed Chad was a demon? [00:24:38] Speaker 1: No, I mentioned spiritual warfare and demons, but not that I believed Chad was a demon. [00:24:46] Speaker 2: Did you say anything about punishing Chad for what he did? [00:24:49] Speaker 1: I don't believe I used that phrase, no sir. [00:24:52] Speaker 2: Did you end up talking to Ken? [00:25:03] Speaker ?: Yes, sir. [00:25:05] Speaker 2: And that would have been over the weekend of September 21st? [00:25:10] Speaker ?: Yes, sir. [00:25:11] Speaker 2: Did you tell Ken that you shot the gun and then it jammed? [00:25:17] Speaker 1: I told him that the gun had jammed, not the way that he described it. [00:25:25] Speaker 2: So you didn't tell him that the gun jammed and then you cleared it and then shot him again? [00:25:31] Speaker 1: I don't know how to unclear a jam. [00:25:35] Speaker 2: What did you tell him? [00:25:41] Speaker 1: That I had shot Chad twice in self-defense. [00:25:47] Speaker 2: So you told him it was self-defense? [00:25:49] Speaker 1: Yes, sir, I had. I don't know why he's not reporting that. [00:25:58] Speaker 2: Did you reach out to Chad on September 9th with the intent to kill him? [00:26:01] Speaker ?: No, sir. [00:26:02] Speaker 2: Did you bring him back to Stormy Stables as part of some plan to kill him? [00:26:07] Speaker ?: No, sir. I have no further questions. Thank you, Judge. [00:26:39] Speaker 3: So your story as you sit here today, it was self-defense, correct? [00:26:44] Speaker ?: Yes, sir. [00:26:45] Speaker 3: Okay. Never told anybody else that, right? [00:26:48] Speaker 1: Yes, I did. [00:26:49] Speaker ?: You told that to Ken? Yes, sir. [00:26:51] Speaker 3: Okay, but when he came in here and said it wasn't self-defense, he was lying? Is that what you're saying? [00:26:55] Speaker 1: He lied about a few things. [00:26:57] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:26:58] Speaker 3: And I assume when you went to see Sean, you probably told him it was self-defense too, right? [00:27:03] Speaker ?: Yes, sir. [00:27:04] Speaker 3: Well, I don't understand why. You were there for five hours. You were really upset, you were talking about Chad being dead, and you didn't think it was important to tell him that it was self-defense that you killed him? [00:27:18] Speaker 1: I was talking all kinds of crazy stuff. There's a lot of things I said and didn't say that make and do not make sense. [00:27:24] Speaker 3: Well, why didn't you tell him the truth? [00:27:26] Speaker 1: What I did say was the truth. [00:27:29] Speaker 3: You did say the truth? The truth that you punished Chad for doing something to Astara? [00:27:36] Speaker ?: No, sir. [00:27:36] Speaker 3: That's the truth? [00:27:37] Speaker 1: No, sir. [00:27:38] Speaker 3: So when he testified to that, he's lying. Is that what you're saying? I didn't... You were in court. You listened to the whole thing. Yes, sir. Is he making that up? [00:27:48] Speaker 1: He's making up that part, yes, sir. [00:27:50] Speaker 3: Well, what about Angela Russo? She was there too, right? [00:27:53] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:27:55] Speaker 3: So you were friendly with her, you went to her house, they let you sleep over, correct? [00:28:00] Speaker 1: In the state of my panic, they let me. I'd never been to their house to stay the night before. [00:28:05] Speaker 3: So the question is, yes, they let you stay at the house, right? Yes, sir. Okay, just listen to the questions, okay? [00:28:12] Speaker 2: Objection argumentative. [00:28:14] Speaker 3: Judge, she's just extrapolating. When you went there, you had an opportunity to tell Angela that you had to kill Chad in self-defense, but you didn't, did you? Correct. Right. You didn't tell anyone right there when you were so upset for five hours, talking about what was going on, that Chad was like a demon, or you, I think you even said to them, you killed his body, but not his soul, right? Or is that another lie that they're just making up? [00:28:44] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:28:45] Speaker 3: You did say that, right? Yes, sir. When you just admitted that you killed his body, not his soul, basically murdering someone, you didn't think it was important to say it was self-defense? [00:28:56] Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking very clearly. [00:28:59] Speaker 3: Correct, okay. And let's talk about you, I'm a little, I don't understand your story. So, you contact Chad and go pick him up at 8:30, is that right? Yes, sir. Okay, what time do you get back to Stormy Stables? [00:29:14] Speaker 1: However long it takes to drive from Barden to San Mateo. [00:29:18] Speaker 3: About 9:15, 9:10, right? [00:29:22] Speaker 1: No, sir, it shouldn't take 45 minutes to travel that far. [00:29:25] Speaker 3: Okay, well let's say you arrive back at 9:05, does that sound about right? Yes, sir. And you're saying that Chad, you pull up to the barn, right? You pull the truck up to the barn, correct? [00:29:43] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:29:44] Speaker 3: Okay, and Chad fixes the headlight? [00:29:49] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:29:50] Speaker 3: How long does that take him? [00:29:54] Speaker 1: 15 minutes. [00:29:55] Speaker 3: Okay. And let's talk about the gun. Your attorney asked you a question and you kind of like sidestepped it. You said you got a gun because you were so fearful of Chad, right? That's why you got a gun, right? Because he kicked in your door, he came to your house, you needed a gun, right? [00:30:16] Speaker 1: Not for him specifically. [00:30:18] Speaker 3: Okay, so you don't want a gun to protect you from the person who you're fearful of? Yes, sir. So you did get the gun because you were fearful of Chad, right? If you want to put it that way. Well, it's not how I want to put it. I'm asking you, ma'am. Yes, sir. And then even if you're so fearful of Chad, between September 2nd to September 9th, you called him 28 times. And you reached out to him. Would you agree with me? [00:30:50] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:30:51] Speaker 3: Okay, so you're so afraid of Chad, you reached out to him multiple times over that eight-day window. And then you're afraid of Chad and you go and pick him up and bring him to a deserted farm in the middle of the night. Nine o'clock? It's not light out? Just the two of you? That's what you're telling this jury? [00:31:12] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:31:13] Speaker 3: And you're telling this jury that you just miraculously, after you fixed the headlight, you thought, hey, it's a great idea. Let me confront Chad about molesting a star right here. No one else is around. It's the dark. There's nothing going on. I think I'm going to ask him about that. Don't you're telling this jury? [00:31:32] Speaker ?: Yes, sir. [00:31:33] Speaker 3: And you think that was a good idea? [00:31:35] Speaker 1: It obviously was not a good idea. [00:31:38] Speaker 3: Let's talk about, you claim that you got a phone call. So, Michelle, you claim you call Michelle Roberts and you were upset because your horse was choking? [00:32:07] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:32:09] Speaker 3: And that's why you called her at 9:15 at night? [00:32:17] Speaker 1: No, sir. I had called her at noon that day. [00:32:19] Speaker 3: Okay? But the phone call she received from you, that she testified to, was a phone call that was received at... 9:35 in 21 seconds. Right? [00:33:09] Speaker 1: A separate phone call, yes, sir. Well, why did you call her at that time? [00:33:11] Speaker 3: Because I was looking for Tina's house. [00:33:14] Speaker 1: Hmm. [00:33:15] Speaker 3: Okay. Was this after you killed Chad? Yes, sir. How much longer after you killed Chad did you call her? [00:33:23] Speaker ?: When I was in the truck trying to find Tina's house. [00:33:24] Speaker 1: When I was in the truck trying to find Tina's house. [00:33:28] Speaker 3: So, your testimony is you were, what truck, you took the truck that was just fixed by Chad? [00:33:36] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. It's the only truck I have. [00:33:38] Speaker 3: Well, you had your car. Right. [00:33:40] Speaker 1: But the keys were in the truck and it was right there. [00:33:42] Speaker 3: Okay. And your testimony is that Chad's phone was in the truck, right? [00:33:48] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:33:49] Speaker 3: So, the phone went with you to... [00:33:53] Speaker 1: To Tina's. [00:33:54] Speaker 3: Tina's house, right? [00:33:56] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:33:57] Speaker 3: And when you went to Tina's house, how long did you stay there for? [00:34:02] Speaker 1: I don't know. [00:34:03] Speaker 3: You don't remember? [00:34:04] Speaker 1: No, sir. [00:34:15] Speaker 3: You're absolutely certain you took Chad's phone with you to Tina's house? [00:34:19] Speaker 1: That's where I found it was in my truck. [00:34:21] Speaker ?: Right. [00:34:21] Speaker 3: At her house, right? When you went over there initially. Right? [00:34:27] Speaker 1: Yes. [00:34:28] Speaker 3: When you left there, his phone was in your truck. Why was his phone in your truck if he wasn't in the truck when you shot him? [00:34:34] Speaker 1: Because he had sat down in the driver's seat and turned the keys in the ignition. [00:34:38] Speaker 3: And he just laid his phone down in there? [00:34:39] Speaker 1: On the dashboard, yes, sir. [00:34:45] Speaker 3: And it's your testimony that Tina's the one who decided what we should do in this case to get rid of Chad, right? [00:34:56] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:34:57] Speaker 3: Right. You had no self control or self will to make your own decision, right? [00:35:01] Speaker 1: At that moment, I was pretty vulnerable. [00:35:03] Speaker 3: Right. But you're a grown woman, right? [00:35:05] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:35:06] Speaker 3: You had a child? [00:35:07] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:35:08] Speaker 3: Ran your own business? Yes, sir. And you didn't think it was a good idea to call the police? [00:35:12] Speaker 1: That's why I suggested to her that I should. [00:35:14] Speaker 3: Well, why didn't you do it before you went to her house? [00:35:17] Speaker 1: I was just getting away from him. [00:35:19] Speaker 3: Why didn't you call the police when you got in your truck? [00:35:23] Speaker 1: Like I said, I was just trying to get somewhere safe. [00:35:26] Speaker 3: That's not what you said. You said you were trying to go get your daughter. But if you were afraid of him and you were in your truck driving away from that location and you thought he may have walked off because he didn't have a vehicle, right? [00:35:38] Speaker 1: My car was there, but yes. [00:35:39] Speaker 3: But you said your keys were in the truck for your car, correct? [00:35:42] Speaker 1: No, sir. I said the truck keys were in the truck. [00:35:46] Speaker 3: So your keys are in your car. You just left them there, right? [00:35:49] Speaker 1: I always leave my keys in my car. Okay. [00:35:51] Speaker 3: So did you see him behind you? [00:35:53] Speaker 1: No, sir. [00:35:54] Speaker 3: Okay. So when you don't see him behind you and when you have the opportunity to call the police, you don't call the police? [00:36:00] Speaker 1: Correct. [00:36:01] Speaker 3: Right. And that wasn't Tina making that decision. That was Caitlin Deller, right? Yes, sir. You made that decision without any concern or worry about Chad, didn't you? [00:36:10] Speaker 1: No, sir. [00:36:12] Speaker 3: No? [00:36:13] Speaker 1: No, sir. [00:36:14] Speaker 3: I don't understand what that answer is. Were you concerned about Chad? [00:36:19] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:36:20] Speaker 3: Why didn't you call the police and ask for an ambulance if you possibly hit him? How? With the shooting. Why wouldn't you not do that if you're concerned for him? [00:36:30] Speaker 1: Because I was more concerned about getting in trouble, I guess. [00:36:34] Speaker 3: But you said you weren't concerned about getting in trouble until after you saw Tina. And this is before you saw Tina that you've made your own conscious decision not to call the police. [00:36:44] Speaker 1: Sir, you can split hairs but in that moment I don't know what I was thinking. [00:36:48] Speaker 3: I'm not splitting hairs. I'm asking you. This is the first time we've ever heard your story. You sat through an entire trial sitting at this table listening to everybody else's testimony and you've had an opportunity to formulate your story around it, right? Yes, sir. You weren't sitting there listening to everybody testify? [00:37:07] Speaker 1: I have been, yes. [00:37:08] Speaker 3: You never called the police to report this? You never told Sean? You never told Angela? You never told anybody else? [00:37:15] Speaker 1: Yes, I did. [00:37:16] Speaker 3: Oh, you told Ken, right? But he-- [00:37:18] Speaker 1: There's other people that I've told that I haven't come forward. [00:37:20] Speaker 3: Oh, okay. Really? [00:37:22] Speaker ?: Who? [00:37:23] Speaker 1: I'm not going to give you their names. [00:37:25] Speaker 3: Why? [00:37:26] Speaker 1: Because they're not part of this. [00:37:28] Speaker 3: But you told them. [00:37:29] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:37:30] Speaker 3: Are they going to get in trouble for keeping a secret for you? [00:37:34] Speaker 1: Failure to report a death to law enforcement or medical examiner, maybe. Okay. [00:37:38] Speaker 3: Well, what's their names? You don't want to tell us? Jamie Brooks, Wendy Steele. Okay. And none of them came forward. When did you tell all of them? [00:37:48] Speaker 1: After it happened. [00:37:50] Speaker 3: When? [00:37:51] Speaker 1: In September, 2024. [00:37:53] Speaker 3: How soon after the murder? [00:37:55] Speaker 1: I don't recall. You don't recall? [00:37:57] Speaker 3: Yes, sir. So you told other people, but the people who let you stay at their house and stay there for five hours and talked about what actually happened, you didn't tell them that? [00:38:08] Speaker 1: No, sir. [00:38:10] Speaker 3: But as you testified here today, you said you told Ken that it was self-defense. [00:38:16] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:38:17] Speaker 3: What did you tell him? [00:38:18] Speaker 1: That it was self-defense, that Chad had attacked me. [00:38:21] Speaker 3: It was self-defense and Chad had attacked you? And he just forgot that? [00:38:28] Speaker 1: No, sir. There's a lot of things that Ken tells differently or makes up. [00:38:32] Speaker 3: Well, you lied multiple times to people, didn't you? [00:38:37] Speaker 1: I may have told them bits and pieces of the truth. [00:38:40] Speaker 3: That's called a lie, right? [00:38:43] Speaker 1: If that's the case, then Ken's lying. Okay. [00:38:46] Speaker 3: Well, I'm asking you. So, when you talked to Chad's family, they asked, where's Chad? And you said, I don't know. That's a lie. [00:38:53] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:38:54] Speaker 3: When other people contacted you and said, do you know where Chad is? And you say, I don't know. That's a lie. [00:38:59] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:39:00] Speaker 3: So you lied multiple times, over and over again, about what happened to Chad. [00:39:04] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:39:05] Speaker 3: Okay. And now you want this jury, as they sit here today, to believe you. After you're sitting here telling this story for the first time. Is that what you're telling us? [00:39:16] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:39:19] Speaker 3: Let's walk through. So, you go to Tina's house. In your truck, with Chad's phone. You stay there for a little while. What happens right after that? You go back to the barn, right? To show Tina. That's what you said. I took Tina back to the barn and I showed her where Chad was. Or I just asked her to come look at it, right? Yes, sir. [00:39:42] Speaker 1: Okay. [00:39:43] Speaker 3: And then you get back to the barn. You guys decide to drag. How did you get Chad into the water? My four-wheeler. [00:39:51] Speaker 1: Your four-wheeler. [00:39:52] Speaker 3: Okay. And then where did you get the cinder block from? The barn. And then all the other stuff you accumulated from the barn, right? Yes, sir. Red hook from your barn? Yes, sir. Did you break that off the ceiling so you could drag them there? Remember, because it was on your ceiling in your barn. There was multiple hooks. So, you used multiple hooks to drag them? [00:40:16] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. I just had multiple ones around the barn. [00:40:18] Speaker 3: So, you drag them with the four-wheels through the water. And how do you actually get them in the water? [00:40:22] Speaker 1: Pulled them into the water. [00:40:25] Speaker 3: Yes, sir. Yourself? You just pulled them in yourself? [00:40:28] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:40:29] Speaker 3: You're a little bit bigger now than you were then. You were skinnier, right? Yes, sir. [00:40:35] Speaker 1: Yeah. [00:40:36] Speaker 3: How much did you weigh back then? [00:40:37] Speaker 1: 153 pounds. Okay. [00:40:39] Speaker 3: And you pulled Chad, how much did he weigh? About 200 pounds? [00:40:42] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:40:43] Speaker 3: So, you pulled him into the water? Yes, sir. With a cinder block? [00:40:48] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:40:49] Speaker 3: Tina didn't help you? [00:40:51] Speaker 1: She may have assisted. [00:40:54] Speaker 3: So, you go back, you do that, and then you decide to go take a shower and clean up, right? Yes, sir. [00:41:01] Speaker 1: Go back to her house? [00:41:02] Speaker 3: Yes, sir. And you're still driving your truck, correct? Yes, sir. And then you get to Tina's house? [00:41:08] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:41:09] Speaker 3: And then she has to do an errand, you say, right? [00:41:12] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. [00:41:13] Speaker 3: Is that a yes? Yep. Whose vehicle goes driving at that time on the errand? [00:41:18] Speaker 1: Tina's. [00:41:19] Speaker 3: Tina's vehicle, okay? And Chad's phone is still in your car, correct? [00:41:24] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:41:25] Speaker 3: Why not? [00:41:26] Speaker 1: Because I saw it and I got it. [00:41:28] Speaker 3: So, you saw Chad's phone in your car and then you took it out to drive with you around town? [00:41:34] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:41:35] Speaker 3: Why? Were you expecting an important call from someone for him? Yes, sir. Did you think maybe he had a better internet package than you did? [00:41:45] Speaker 1: No, sir. [00:41:46] Speaker 3: So, why would you drive around with his phone? [00:41:48] Speaker 1: I don't know why. [00:41:49] Speaker 3: And then you guys leave Tina's house somewhere around 3 a.m. and start heading to St. Augustine. Right? [00:42:10] Speaker 1: If that's what the record reflects. [00:42:13] Speaker 3: Would you like me to show you the record? Would that help you refresh your memory? No, sir. [00:42:17] Speaker 1: I wouldn't remember because I don't know. Okay. [00:42:19] Speaker 3: So, if the records reflect you all leave around 3 a.m. Your testimony to this jury is that Tina worked a job and at 3 a.m. in the dead of night, in the middle of nowhere, she went to a farm to go get paid? [00:42:35] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. She had the accommodation to the safe and went in the safe and got her money. [00:42:39] Speaker 3: Wait. She had the, she had the combination to a safe at the farm? [00:42:45] Speaker 1: She said she had to go in a safe and get money. [00:42:50] Speaker 3: So, Tina, just the person who is like a little security. [00:42:53] Speaker 1: Maybe she didn't have the combination. I misspoke. [00:42:56] Speaker 3: Well, you just said that's what she told you. [00:42:59] Speaker 1: She said she had to go in a safe and get money. [00:43:03] Speaker 3: So, Mr. Burns, who testified here, who said he really wasn't giving her but $50 or less at that time, he miraculously is going to let her go into the safe and take out money? [00:43:14] Speaker 1: I'm just telling you what she said. [00:43:16] Speaker 3: You didn't think that was odd that you were in the middle of nowhere at 3 a.m. in the morning to collect the paycheck? [00:43:21] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:43:24] Speaker 3: You didn't say anything? Like, what the heck's going on here? Isn't it true you guys went out there because you were scouting where you were going to move Chad's body to? [00:43:33] Speaker 1: No, sir. No? Okay. [00:43:36] Speaker 3: And then you went from there to St. Augustine, right? [00:43:39] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:43:40] Speaker 3: And then came back? Yes, sir. That night when Chad, before you picked him up though, you had a conversation with your daughter earlier in the day where you were trying to ask her about Chad molesting you or touching her, correct? [00:44:07] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:44:08] Speaker 3: Right. And you, in fact, videotaped that, right? [00:44:10] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:44:11] Speaker 3: That's right. And you were mad that he had done that to your daughter or thought he had done that to the daughter. [00:44:16] Speaker 1: I don't know if I'd say mad. [00:44:18] Speaker 3: You weren't mad that someone was allegedly molesting your four and five-year-old child? [00:44:23] Speaker 1: I was hurt and confused. Hurt and confused. [00:44:26] Speaker 3: Hurt and confused. So, the person who's molesting your child allegedly, which was what you believed because you called Ken that day and you told him too. You told Ken on the 9th, I think Chad is molesting Ostara. Do you remember that? Yes, sir. Right. In fact, and then you texted him back like around 3:30, 4:00 o'clock. I got it under control. Don't worry. Remember texting him back that? Yes, sir. Okay. So, your daughter is being molested by a grown man who you think is a good idea that you're going to go bring that person back with you alone there? Does that make any sense? You know what I'm saying? It absolutely makes no sense that you would go, the person who's molesting your five-year-old daughter, you got to be pissed off. Any adult or parent would be pissed off if their kid's being molested by an adult male, right? [00:45:20] Speaker 1: There was no proof that he was doing that. [00:45:22] Speaker 3: You asked her. You were trying to ask her over again and you told Ken that you think that's what he's doing. [00:45:27] Speaker 2: You actually haven't asked him the answer. Oh. [00:45:31] Speaker 3: Right? So now you're saying there was no evidence of it, right? [00:45:36] Speaker 1: Right. [00:45:38] Speaker 3: But your daughter had discharge from her vagina and you thought that was directly related to him molesting her, correct? Yes, sir. No, you never told that to Angela Russo? Is that what you're testifying here today? [00:45:51] Speaker 1: Not about Chad molesting her, no sir. [00:45:53] Speaker 3: Did you tell her that your daughter had green stuff coming from her vagina? [00:45:58] Speaker 1: In the past, from having pinworms she did. [00:46:01] Speaker 3: So, you believe Chad molested your daughter or you think he might have. And you're telling this jury that you didn't lower him back to your house because you were pissed off and shoot him? [00:46:15] Speaker 1: No, sir. [00:46:16] Speaker 3: No, and miraculously while he's choking you, there's that gun that's right there you can reach, correct? Yes, sir. It's like a miracle, right? [00:46:25] Speaker 1: I wouldn't say so. [00:46:27] Speaker 3: Okay. Well, why didn't you call the police as soon as you thought someone was molesting your child? [00:46:36] Speaker 1: I don't call the police for every little thing and I called them about other things and they never helped me. [00:46:43] Speaker 3: So, you would never call the police on someone molesting your child? [00:46:46] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:46:47] Speaker 3: You would or wouldn't? [00:46:48] Speaker 1: I would but I wanted to ask the person first. [00:46:50] Speaker 3: So, you think it's a good idea to confront someone in the middle of the dark if they're molesting your child? [00:46:55] Speaker 1: I stated it was probably not a good idea. [00:47:16] Speaker 3: How well lit was it back there? [00:47:19] Speaker 1: I'm not sure how to answer that question. [00:47:22] Speaker 3: It was well lit enough for Chad to change the headlight, right? [00:47:25] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:47:26] Speaker 3: So, you could see what was going on in front of you, correct? [00:47:28] Speaker 1: Correct. [00:47:29] Speaker 3: You could see Chad had a hammer, according to you, correct? [00:47:31] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:47:32] Speaker 3: Okay, you could see him coming at you, right? [00:47:34] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. [00:47:35] Speaker 3: What was the distance between you guys? [00:47:38] Speaker 1: I don't recall. [00:47:39] Speaker 3: You don't recall? [00:47:40] Speaker 1: No, sir. [00:47:41] Speaker 3: I mean, this must have been a traumatic event, right? [00:47:43] Speaker 1: Right. So, I get tunnel vision in traumatic events. [00:47:46] Speaker 3: Okay. So, where the car was parked to where the railing is, what's the distance? [00:47:51] Speaker 1: From me to that rail, maybe? A little further? I don't know. [00:47:56] Speaker 3: So, between these two right here? Or that rail? [00:48:00] Speaker 1: A little further than that, because the truck door was open. Seeing it was beyond the door of the truck. [00:48:05] Speaker 3: Okay. And when you shot Chad, he didn't like, yell like, "Ow! Oh, my God! I've been shot!" [00:48:14] Speaker 1: Like I said, I had tunnel vision. I don't know all the little details of the instance. [00:48:19] Speaker 3: Sure. And Chad, who had molested your daughter, you contacted him at 6:00 to come to talk to him on the 9th. You contacted him at 7:13. You contacted him at 7:24. You contacted him at 7:58. You contacted him other times, and then at 8:33, when you get to his house, you contact him again, right? Yes, sir. The person who you had just found out was molesting your daughter, and you thought it was, you drove her to his house at 8:33 to pick him up to be alone in the car, correct? [00:48:54] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:49:14] Speaker 3: And you never told Chad that when you shot, I mean, you never told Ken when you shot Chad that the gun jammed, and then he gave you this stare for like a minute while you unjammed it, and it's something that will be burning your brain forever? Yes, sir. So you just made that up? [00:49:36] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:49:37] Speaker 3: Did you tell him you're not going to believe the role of Stormy Clayton in this? [00:49:46] Speaker 1: No, sir. Yes, sir. [00:50:07] Speaker 3: Did you guys take a starter with you when you were driving late that night? [00:50:33] Speaker 1: No, sir. [00:50:34] Speaker 3: Who did you lead her with? [00:50:37] Speaker 1: People at Tina's house. [00:50:39] Speaker 3: Just at Tina's house? Yes, sir. [00:50:41] Speaker 1: Was there anyone there? [00:50:42] Speaker 3: Yes, sir. [00:50:43] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:50:44] Speaker ?: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. [00:50:44] Speaker 3: Yes, sir. And as you sit here today, you never told Angela and Sean Russo that, and never asked them the question, did I have the right to punish someone who's molesting my daughter? Judge, and they asked an answer. That's what you're saying, you never said that to them? Correct. Thank you. [00:52:14] Speaker ?: Thank you. [00:52:44] Speaker 2: All rise as jurors exit boardroom.