Abdul El-Sayed says Democrats need to earn their mandate and take ‘righteous risks’ — Newsmakers

[0:00] We haven't earned our mandate yet. [0:03] Getting a seat is not itself the victory. [0:06] Using the seat well, that's what people elect you to do. [0:10] I remember every day that, you know, that seat I sit in is not mine. [0:14] It belongs to the people of the state of Michigan. [0:16] Senator-elect Abdul El-Sayed is one of the breakout figures of the newly elected Democratic Congress. [0:23] Winning that election in Michigan, though, was far from easy. [0:26] Republicans, including President Trump, engaged in bigoted attacks against him over his Muslim faith and his Arab heritage. [0:34] Now that the race is over, though, it's on to the business of governing. [0:37] So I sat down with Abdul El-Sayed here at NPR in Washington, D.C. to ask what he can realistically accomplish in a divided government. [0:44] And if he and his party can meet the moment. [0:50] Senator-elect Abdul El-Sayed, welcome to Newsmakers. Thank you for being here. [0:53] Well, Leila Fadil, it's very good to be with you. [0:56] I mean, I guess I could start right there. [0:58] You know, you walked out during your victory speech, and everybody knew you as Abdul El-Sayed. [1:03] And you said, my name is Abdul El-Rahman Mohamed El-Sayed, and I'm the next senator. [1:09] Why did you make that choice? [1:11] You know, I've been Abdul since kindergarten. [1:14] Yeah. [1:14] And that's because, you know, when I started school in 1989, my name is 11 letters long. [1:22] It's got sounds that come out of parts of people's throats most people don't even know they have. [1:26] And, you know, my parents had me and got divorced and both remarried. [1:31] So I was raised by my dad and my stepmom, Jackie, since I was three. [1:36] And, you know, I can imagine the conversation that Jackie and Mohamed share about what I'm going to be called in kindergarten. [1:43] Yeah. [1:43] And as it was recounted to me, it's like, you know, honey, we should talk about his name. [1:48] And I can imagine my dad being completely aloof, like, what's wrong with his name? [1:51] And it was just a very difficult name to pronounce. [1:54] And so at the time, Paula Abdul was topping the charts, was straight up. [1:58] And Kareem Abdul-Jabbar had just retired. [2:01] And so Abdul was a name that was known. [2:03] So I started kindergarten as Abdul. [2:05] And, you know, I've been Abdul my whole life. [2:08] Most people who know me professionally know me by Abdul. [2:12] Much of my family still calls me Abdul-Rahman. [2:14] But the opposition decided to make my name such an issue and my faith such an issue. [2:23] And so, you know, Abdul-Rahman Mohamed Sayyid is as American as Mike Rogers. [2:28] It's as American as Donald Trump. [2:31] It's as American as whatever JD stands for. [2:34] It is an American name. [2:36] I am 100% American. [2:38] And Abdul-Rahman Mohamed Sayyid is my name. [2:41] And so for all of those folks who have had to try to hide their name or hide their identity [2:47] or, you know, been told or made fun of why their name is otherizing, I wanted to fully claim it. [2:56] My name is Abdul-Rahman Mohamed Sayyid, and I was just elected U.S. senator from Michigan. [3:00] And so your name is as American as you are. [3:05] And, you know, there is this, it's funny because the reaction was like, well, he walked up there [3:10] and spoke Arabic. [3:11] And you're like, yeah, do you know how many families speak Arabic who are just as American [3:16] as you are, right? [3:18] There is this consistent attempt to try to make America small. [3:22] And what I wanted to show was just how big America is and that Michigan chose that big [3:28] America. [3:29] I don't need people to know how to say my name, but I need folks to understand that whatever [3:34] my name is, I'm going to show up and I'm going to work for you. [3:37] I'm going to make sure that you can afford your gas and your groceries. [3:40] And that is about as American a concept as it gets. [3:43] I want to get into more of the vitriolic campaign that was ran against you later on. [3:49] But I want to start with it right now. [3:51] You're here in D.C. for Senate orientation. [3:54] And Americans clearly, with the choices they made, said they wanted a change. [3:59] And in speaking to voters, they're angry at both political parties and a system they see [4:03] as broken. [4:04] And I know you're not in the House and you're not yet in the Senate. [4:08] But can the American people trust your party to follow through on promises of accountability [4:14] and change when 11 Democrats didn't show up to a House vote on impeachment articles against [4:20] Pete Hexeth, the defense secretary? [4:22] We haven't earned our mandate yet. [4:26] And I remind people all the time, I don't even have the job yet, but getting a seat is [4:32] not itself the victory. [4:34] Using the seat well, that's what people elect you to do. [4:38] I remember every day that, you know, that seat I sit in is not mine. [4:42] It belongs to the people of the state of Michigan. [4:44] They have had it before I ever sat in it. [4:46] They will have it after I sit in it. [4:48] My job is to use it to serve them in the best way I know how. [4:52] And to all of us Democrats, we've been given an opportunity that is not the same as success. [4:58] And so we have to go and earn it every single day. [5:02] If every action we take isn't clearly mapped to enabling a family in Detroit or Grand Rapids [5:09] or Escanaba to be able to afford the gas to get the grocery store and then buy the stuff [5:15] at the grocery store that they need to bring home, then we have failed that responsibility. [5:20] And so I want us all dead set on that responsibility and the need to earn that mandate every day. [5:26] And that's just true of politics. [5:27] You can have served for 30 years. [5:30] You can be in the office for three months. [5:32] You are still in a constant conversation with the people you serve about what they need you to do tomorrow. [5:40] It's not about what happened yesterday. [5:41] But what does it say to the American people, especially so soon after such a win, [5:49] that 11 people didn't show up to work? [5:51] That could have changed an outcome. [5:53] Yeah. [5:53] It's frustrating. [5:55] People should show up and do their job. [5:56] You've spoken a lot about the things you want to change. [6:02] And among those things is, it seems like, leadership. [6:05] Why do you want Senator Chris Van Hollen over Senator Chuck Schumer to be a leader? [6:12] So I've gotten to know Senator Van Hollen over the course of my campaign. [6:16] And even before he had supported me openly in the campaign, I've just always admired his [6:21] approach to leadership. [6:22] He's willing to take risks when it matters. [6:25] Flying down to meet Kilmar Abrego Garcia was a real risk. [6:30] And that is the Maryland man who was deported to an El Salvadoran prison. [6:34] Exactly. [6:35] And he went to check up on his constituent. [6:39] That's what leadership is about. [6:40] And, you know, I want folks to sort of think about what it means to earn that mandate that [6:47] we just got. [6:48] To me, it means taking righteous risks and righteous fights on behalf of a public that [6:55] deeply needs their government to work for them. [6:58] They need to be able to afford very basic things. [7:01] And they need very clear actions taken immediately. [7:03] We need to stop these Medicaid tax cuts. [7:05] People don't understand. [7:06] There's about to be a nuclear bomb that goes off in the middle of our health care system. [7:10] And it's not just people who are going to lose their Medicaid. [7:12] I mean, that would be enough. [7:14] It's that the costs of their care are going to be pushed back into rural hospitals, which [7:19] could shut them down, and then back into insurance premiums for everybody else. [7:22] We're about to see large double-digit increases for the second year in a row in premiums. [7:26] It's going to price a lot of people out. [7:28] And when they get priced out, you now are in a downward spiral in terms of cost of insurance. [7:32] We are on the verge of a very, very serious health care crisis. [7:36] We're already living in one. [7:38] But it's about to get a lot worse because of these Medicaid cuts. [7:40] This war in Iran makes no sense. [7:43] You know, and there's a big debate now about what do we do in terms of funding for that [7:48] war? [7:48] Well, I think the American public elected us because they're sick and tired of a stupid [7:53] war that we have no business fighting that's raising the price of gas and groceries. [7:56] What are we going to do about it? [7:57] And then you think about these tariffs. [7:59] And, you know, I live in Michigan where it's the only place in the country where you can [8:02] go south to get to Canada. [8:03] And this tariff policy makes no coherent sense at all. [8:09] It is about the vanity of one man, and we need to end it. [8:12] And we need to do this quick, not to mention all of the other stuff that people elected us [8:16] for. [8:17] We need and deserve health care in this country. [8:19] We need and deserve Medicare for all. [8:21] We need to fight for union rights. [8:22] We need to pass the Voting Rights Act. [8:24] We need action when it comes to standing up to monopolies and oligopolies. [8:28] We need action on AI. [8:30] So, you know, I deeply appreciate Senator Schumer. [8:34] He and I built a partnership over the course of, you know, my campaign. [8:37] He was very, very supportive of that campaign. [8:40] I'm grateful for that. [8:41] But this is about leadership for the American public. [8:43] And if all we do is kind of go back to what we've been doing, in a moment where we've [8:47] been given a mandate, I worry that we may not earn our mandate. [8:49] So you see Senator Schumer as a leader of the past, not the future? [8:54] I think the American public has been very clear about that. [8:56] And I think we need to move forward into a future where we're taking the reins and fighting [9:01] to win. [9:02] And has Senator Van Hollen indicated that he's, I know he's saying he's on a listening [9:06] tour now, and you've spoken to him. [9:08] Has he indicated that he will run? [9:10] I think we would all be well-served if he jumped in and we move forward in that direction. [9:19] So I really hope he will. [9:20] And I'm excited about the prospect of his leadership. [9:24] Support for Newsmakers and the following message come from NPR sponsor LexisNexis. [9:29] Meet LexisNexis Protege, legal AI grounded in authority and built on your own work product. [9:35] Research, analyze, draft, and verify. [9:39] Protege, AI held to the standard of law. [9:41] Do you think there's a danger? [9:44] I mean, you talked about the temporary nature, that you have a mandate that the American people [9:47] have trusted you. [9:48] I know you're not even in your seat yet, right? [9:50] You're just at orientation. [9:51] I'm just here in a seat at NPR studios. [9:54] Right, exactly. [9:55] But in January, you will be in a very powerful seat. [9:59] Do you have concerns that this moment that your party has could be squandered? [10:06] Absolutely. [10:06] Look, you know, if we've learned anything, it's that people are fed up with politics generally. [10:14] They are looking for an alternative. [10:17] And they have very temporarily put their trust in us. [10:20] What we do next dictates whether or not they want to continue to trust us. [10:25] But the bigger picture is this. [10:27] What is the point of power if you're not using it to make people's lives better? [10:31] Like winning and losing elections is not the outcome. [10:34] Making people's lives better is the outcome. [10:37] And so to me, the question is less political strategy. [10:41] How do we make sure we use this moment so we can win more elections? [10:44] The question is, hey, Americans are struggling. [10:47] They just asked you, tapped you in to go and help. [10:50] Go help. [10:50] Because that's the whole point of having the job. [10:52] There is no point to these jobs aside from doing the things that the public needs you to do. [10:57] And right now, people are struggling under the weight of an affordability crisis that is crushing them [11:00] at every single turn. [11:03] They are worried about whether or not their hospital or clinic will collapse tomorrow, [11:08] let alone their ability to even walk in and get care without getting hit with a bill they can't pay. [11:12] They look at their kids' schools and say, [11:13] why does this place look like it did 30 years ago when I went here? [11:17] Why are the teachers here underpaid? [11:19] Why do we not have the paraprofessionals to make sure that my kid can be their best student every single day? [11:24] They look at their infrastructure and say, why is that bridge crumbling? [11:26] Like, why are these roads failing? [11:28] They turn on their tap and say, is this water safe to drink? [11:32] They go outside and take a big, deep breath of air and wonder whether or not this has been poisoned by a smokestack across the road. [11:38] Like, these are the issues that the American public elected us to deal with. [11:41] The only point of having the job is to do it, right? [11:44] So I think we put the political strategy secondary and say, what are the things we need to do to solve those problems there that sit in the lives of everyday people that are out there just trying to make ends meet in an economy that is not built for them? [11:58] And if we've done that, the politics will solve themselves. [12:00] Okay, so let's talk about what's possible because you are going into a divided government, which historically a lot doesn't get done when the House and Senate are controlled by one party and the executive is another party. [12:13] So I just want to tick through a lot of the top issues that drove so many voters to understand what you think you can really get done with the Trump administration. [12:21] Can you make things more affordable in the months ahead? [12:24] Yes. [12:25] How? [12:25] And the war stopped the tariffs. [12:27] Can you expand health care? [12:29] Yes. [12:30] How? [12:30] Make sure Medicaid tax cuts don't take hold, bring back the ACA subsidies, and then start toward the path of Medicare for All. [12:38] I mean, one easy way to do this is Medicare, which is a program for seniors, doesn't cover vision, dental, and hearing. [12:46] Like I went to med school. [12:47] I've never met a senior who doesn't need vision, dental, or hearing. [12:49] Sometimes they don't need dental, but they almost always need vision and hearing. [12:53] Why can't we make that whole? [12:54] Why can't we expand it down to people 55 and up? [12:58] Why can't we give it to all the kids so that they're guaranteed health care? [13:02] The only reason that we don't do this—I mean, look, there's a public consensus that we should be guaranteeing health care here. [13:09] Then there's a political consensus that says we can't. [13:11] Now, the only reason that there's a difference between the public consensus and the political consensus, meaning both parties, is somebody's money. [13:17] It is pharma money, it's insurance money, it is hospital money that has created this manufactured consensus that we can't do it. [13:26] I stood up against that money, so I'm here with the public. [13:30] I'm like, yes, we can. [13:31] We absolutely can, and we should. [13:33] But what is possible, given that you have to work with Republicans in order to get legislation passed, and also within your own party, there's divisions over whether Medicare for All is the answer. [13:42] If we put down a bill tomorrow that said we were going to make vision, dental, and hearing whole, we were going to eliminate all the gaps in Medicare, so instead of part A, B, and D, you have one part, we were to eliminate the spend down or the deductible, and we were going to extend it to children and people under 55, that thing would have 95% support in the public. [14:02] Let's go do it. [14:03] But it has to have that support in the Congress. [14:05] And then I dare Donald Trump to veto. [14:09] I dare him. [14:09] Because if you want to make the argument that Democrats want to deliver for you, do that. [14:14] Make him veto it. [14:16] Make him. [14:17] I bet you, put his name on it, he'll probably pass it. [14:21] I'm not above doing that. [14:22] I don't care what it's called. [14:23] I just want people out there to be able to have health care. [14:25] That's the whole point. [14:26] The point of these jobs is not just to sit in the seat. [14:29] The point of the job is to use the seat to serve the public. [14:32] Can you put a stop to these violent, sometimes fatal, ice crackdowns? [14:37] Yes, and we must. [14:38] How? [14:38] I think you've got to go after ice funding at the end of the day. [14:41] They should not have hundreds of billions of dollars to enable masked men to run around [14:48] without fully identifying themselves, in effect, engaging in government kidnapping. [14:52] They don't like, you know, my family comes from a place where there is no rule of law. [14:57] So the government can just kidnap you. [14:58] What's the difference between an arrest and a kidnapping? [15:00] An arrest means they have to tell you who they are, why they're arresting you, [15:05] and tell you what your rights to challenge your arrest are. [15:08] That's an arrest. [15:10] What is a kidnapping? [15:11] Just pick you up. [15:11] Don't have to tell you who they are, what you can do to get out of it. [15:14] Ice detentions are government kidnappings. [15:18] How many people have been swept up in an ice detention that had no business being detained? [15:22] Like literally whole American citizens that just looked like you or me [15:26] and were in the wrong place at the wrong time. [15:28] There should not be a wrong place to be an American citizen in the United States of America. [15:32] Ice has created that situation. [15:33] I think they have more than justified the pulling of funding for them. [15:38] I believe that ice needs to be abolished. [15:40] I believe we need to go back to an era more like the INS, right, where we weren't shooting people in the face or the back of the head [15:45] at the edge of immigration detention or, you know, immigration kidnapping because Stephen Miller decided to put a quota on how many people they had to sweep up. [15:53] That's an insane way to run government, by the way. [15:55] Do you think you could work with the president on this? [15:57] I mean, he indicated that he'd be open to scaling back in a 60 Minutes interview recently. [16:03] I will work with anyone. [16:05] I am a professional. [16:06] I don't really quite care about the identity of the person I'm working with. [16:08] I care about the identity of the people that I'm trying to work for. [16:11] So if he's game to work on something, absolutely, let's do it. [16:14] And Donald, if you're listening, there's a lot we could work on. [16:17] Happy to have a meeting. [16:18] Let's figure out what we can work on and get done. [16:20] Because at the end of the day, people in the state of Michigan are struggling. [16:22] They're struggling under policies that we're getting wrong. [16:25] And let's see if we can't get it right. [16:28] To get anything done, you have to have not only all of your party with you, but some of your Republican colleagues or the president. [16:36] Again, how do you do that? [16:38] So most politicians are thinking a bit about ideally what's good for people. [16:44] But if not, they're not thinking about that. [16:45] They're thinking about political strategy. [16:47] The American public just very clearly indicated that they are not happy with the current direction of the country. [16:52] So I don't care where you are in this country. [16:55] If you're reading the political tea leaves and have any interest in a political future, you probably want to figure out how to address some problems. [17:02] You know who these Medicaid tax cuts are going to hurt the most? [17:05] They're going to hurt rural hospitals the most. [17:09] And by the virtue of the structure of the U.S. Senate, right, a disproportionate number of U.S. senators come from rural states. [17:16] Wyoming, Idaho. [17:20] Let's sit down and think about how we save your health care system by addressing these Medicaid tax cuts. [17:24] I bet you we could probably get to like a, if we really put it down, you could get easily a filibuster-proof majority, potentially a veto-proof majority in the Senate. [17:37] People are realizing that this is hurting a lot of folks across the country, not just in the states that had contested elections. [17:45] So I think there's the conversation that needs to be had. [17:48] Who are we? [17:49] Who do we want to be? [17:50] Where do we want to go in our politics? [17:51] Is this working for you? [17:52] And I bet you if you go to Boise, Idaho and be like, is the health care system working for you? [17:56] I don't think most people in Boise are like, well, I really care about the pharmaceutical CEO and their salary. [18:02] I think most of them are saying, I don't want to get priced out of my health care. [18:04] And I don't want the clinic next door to get shut down. [18:06] And I really think somebody should do something about it. [18:09] Let's do something about it. [18:09] You faced a really ugly campaign against you that really leaned on bigoted tropes about your ethnicity, your religion. [18:23] And that started at the top. [18:24] You know, you had the president of the United States saying you're a jihadist lunatic. [18:29] And Republican now colleagues in the Senate saying things about you as well. [18:34] Can you work with people who were spewing such vitriol against you? [18:38] You know, I've been me my whole life. [18:41] You've been you your whole life. [18:43] This is not the first time I heard any of that. [18:46] And normally, you know, you get to see the full swath of people. [18:50] There's always a small minority of people who speak very loudly who claim to speak for everybody else. [18:55] I didn't get into this to defend myself. [18:57] I got into this to defend a public who are struggling at the edge of a set of policies. [19:03] I don't really care what you've said about me in the past. [19:06] I don't really care what you think about me. [19:08] I care that people in Michigan have health care, that they can afford their gas and groceries, and that we're building an America that is befitting of the American dream. [19:20] One that my family, you know, I got to live that dream. [19:23] A lot of people don't, whose families have been here far longer than mine. [19:26] So, I'm a professional, you know, let bygones be bygones. [19:30] You said some things. [19:31] What can we do to actually get stuff done? [19:33] That's what I'm interested in. [19:33] In fact, I've had a number of conversations with U.S. senators who said some really, really terrible things about me. [19:39] Really? [19:40] And you know what we talked about? [19:41] Auto policy. [19:42] Because we make cars in Michigan, and I want to keep making cars in Michigan. [19:45] I want to make the best cars in Michigan. [19:47] So, how do we fix that? [19:48] So, you would sit down with, like, say, Senator Ted Cruz, who called you a jihadist leprechaun, and said- [19:54] If he wants to help us get money out of politics, put money in pockets, pass Medicare for all, sure. [19:59] My job is not to come out here and hold personal grudges. [20:01] Yeah. [20:02] My job is to deliver for Michiganders, and nothing will get in my way to do that. [20:07] The way a lot of people have dealt with the president is through flattery. [20:12] Appealing to him, maybe to his ego, to his transactional approach. [20:18] I mean, no, that's not what I'm saying, but I'm saying- [20:20] I mean, but that's actually exactly what you're saying, right? [20:22] Like, you're not using those words. [20:23] He's a narcissist, and the way you manipulate a narcissist is to flatter them, because in [20:28] his mind, the only thing that matters is how much praise he's getting at any given moment. [20:31] Now, you're doing the opposite. [20:32] You recently called President Trump the dumbest effing guy who ever was president- [20:36] True. [20:36] ...on a podcast. [20:38] You've also said Democrats should drop the decorum and treat the president as the unserious fool that [20:42] he is. [20:43] True. [20:43] Why are you taking that approach? [20:45] Because he's a bully alongside being a narcissist, and the only way you deal with bullies is [20:54] to stand up to them. [20:55] Because here's the thing about it. [20:57] Bullies don't bully you because they necessarily care for the thing you have. [21:01] They bully you because they like to bully you because it makes them feel strong. [21:06] And the way you take on a bully is to bully back, because then they learn that this does [21:11] not make them feel strong. [21:13] It makes them feel weak, and they don't like to feel weak, so they back off. [21:16] And the more you let a bully get away with bullying, the more they signal to everybody [21:21] else that this person cannot be stood up to. [21:24] And so I think it's important for us to stand up to him. [21:27] Now, if he wants to start being serious and doing things for the American public, great. [21:32] He is the president of the United States. [21:34] And in the interim, I am not going to play around and pretend that somehow this man is [21:38] intelligent. [21:39] I'm not going to play around and somehow pretend that this man has any strategy or that this [21:43] man is somehow brilliant. [21:44] I think if he has a neat trick, it's that he has fully succumbed to his narcissism and [21:51] is very good at getting attention. [21:53] So the good news about that, though, is that because he's very good at getting attention, [21:57] what he says gets attention, which means every day he tees off on me, he gives me more attention. [22:02] So you're saying what happened backfired? [22:07] For sure. [22:07] I mean, I won by seven. [22:08] I said I was going to win by seven. [22:10] I won by seven. [22:10] So, you know, if it was effective, go ask Mike Rogers in Florida if it was effective. [22:16] Now, you do, I mean, the president has talked about, he said two things, right? [22:20] He said he's going to be Mr. Vito, but he also has said, oh, I'll work with the Democrats. [22:24] I mean, do you think this could just push him away, this type of approach, calling him dumb [22:30] and unserious? [22:31] No, because he cannot stand, he cannot stand being disliked. [22:37] So his biggest incentive now, you know, I'm going to say this and it's probably going [22:43] to reach his desk and he won't be able to resist it. [22:45] He wants me to like him. [22:47] So Donald, call my office. [22:50] We can have a meeting. [22:52] Now, your party is balanced, is in a balancing moment. [22:56] You know, we've heard kind of two things coming from the party about the future. [22:59] There's the Hakeem Jeff, Congressman Hakeem Jeffries approach. [23:04] He said the American people are not interested in getting even, they're interested in action. [23:08] And then we've heard the Congressman Robert Garcia talk about lawyer up. [23:12] Which vein would you say you're in? [23:16] Every action that we take has to have one goal, improving the lives of people in our country. [23:24] Now, a lot of the policy that they've followed has made life a lot harder. [23:29] I'll just use one example. [23:31] Throughout the summer, everybody in my state was dodging lettuce. [23:33] Why? [23:34] Because it was infected with cyclosporiasis. [23:36] Right. [23:36] The only way lettuce gets infected with cyclosporiasis is because somebody who has cyclosporiasis [23:40] has, the lettuce has been infected. [23:47] And that was because they doged out the part of the FDA that was supposed to protect you [23:55] from eating infected lettuce. [23:58] So you had thousands of cases of people who were infected and spent days and days with [24:06] stomach upset. [24:07] And then you had thousands more who had to throw away the lettuce. [24:11] Like, that is a choice that government makes. [24:12] I want to investigate why that happened so that we can correct it and fix it. [24:17] So we can save people money and save people illness. [24:20] So rather than the goal of retribution, because politics is not about us versus them. [24:27] Politics is about us for the people of this country. [24:30] Rather than the goal of retribution, to me, the goal is repair and improvement. [24:34] But investigations are things that you need to do to understand what broke and how it broke [24:39] and why it broke. [24:40] Is the point of the investigation then accountability, an actual prosecution, or is it just to fix [24:47] the system? [24:48] It's going to be both. [24:49] If we find that people broke the law, I think it's important to follow that. [24:53] The rule of law has to mean something. [24:54] But the goal is not specifically around retribution. [24:57] The goal is about improving people's lives. [24:59] Do you feel a lot of pressure? [25:01] Yeah. [25:02] I mean, of course. [25:03] Right? [25:04] Like, Michigan only gets two U.S. senators. [25:06] I got the opportunity to serve in this seat. [25:08] And, you know, I take really seriously that, you know, people are counting on you to actually [25:13] do something meaningful. [25:15] So, yeah, absolutely. [25:17] And I don't want to let folks down. [25:20] You know, there's something about hope in our politics that I think folks are newly [25:25] feeling again. [25:26] And I remember what it meant to, like, have hope in politics. [25:29] And I've also lived, like everyone else, through the last decade of our politics, where it [25:34] felt very, very hopeless. [25:36] And the notion that people are willing to give us, yes, their stories, yes, their votes, [25:40] yes, their time and energy and money, but their hope. [25:44] Like, we cannot dash that. [25:45] It is, I mean, it's too important. [25:47] Like, you know, American democracy is a beautiful thing. [25:50] And the minute people stop believing that it actually can solve their problems, that's [25:54] when I get worried. [25:55] And so people are, have invested in the democratic process. [25:59] And it is our job both to solve the problems for which they invested, and also to make sure [26:04] that that investment itself in the American democratic system, that that persists. [26:10] You mentioned the Iran war earlier, saying it has to end. [26:15] And a lot of American voters agree with you. [26:18] But again, how, given that the president is who he is and has not indicated that it's [26:27] something he'd support, can you get Republican colleagues on your side here? [26:32] I think we can. [26:33] But look, wars cost money. [26:36] And it is Congress that has the capacity to declare war. [26:40] It is Congress that controls the purse. [26:43] We have the ability to hold them accountable. [26:48] Now, a lot of people say, well, what do we do the next day? [26:50] Well, no, you don't have to go back that far in history to remember when President Obama, [26:55] who was actually a great president, had addressed the risk of a nuclear threat via diplomacy without [27:05] war. [27:05] And then this idiot president became president. [27:08] And you're referring to the deal with Iran. [27:09] Yep, the JCPOA. [27:12] This man takes office, doesn't like anything Obama did because he sees it as a personal [27:15] affront to himself because he didn't do it. [27:18] Tears up that agreement. [27:20] And then in the next term, goes on and makes war. [27:24] To what? [27:25] Like to teach the Iranian regime that they have a chokehold on the Strait of Hormuz, which [27:30] is why we're all paying more for gas and groceries. [27:32] I mean, every, every, there has been pressure for us to fight this war on behalf of a foreign [27:38] government for a very long time. [27:39] And every American president with a functional cognitive system in their head has realized [27:47] that this would be a bad idea because of exactly what's happened now. [27:51] And the president won't talk about the war. [27:53] He wants to, you know, brief us all on his progress with the drapes. [27:57] But we're struggling because of this war. [27:59] So I think Congress has to act and then force him to decide what he's going to do next. [28:06] Diplomacy works if you work it. [28:08] President Obama proved that. [28:09] Let's get back to that. [28:10] Let's talk about that. [28:11] Right now, the administration speaks of, quote, peace through strength and maximum lethality, [28:17] a term we've heard from Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth. [28:20] The U.S. is sinking ships in the Caribbean. [28:22] They took the sovereign leader of Venezuela, started a war with Iran, dismantled a source [28:27] of soft power with USAID, which funds healthcare efforts, battles, infectious diseases around [28:33] the world. [28:34] As a senator, what can you do about the role the U.S. plays abroad? [28:38] And what do you want that role to be? [28:41] You know, he says maximum lethality to who? [28:44] American public is suffering because of their maximum lethality. [28:49] You know, go back in our history. [28:51] After World War II, after the devastation of that, of the war, of the Holocaust, we were [29:01] the first among equals to lead the world, to build a system of international law that [29:08] included both the laws that were written and then the institutions to enforce them. [29:13] United Nations, World Health Organization, International Criminal Court, International Court [29:18] of Justice. [29:18] These were all intended to enforce the system of international laws that we had led to create. [29:27] And then since then, we have become one of the principal breakers of that whole system. [29:33] Here's the problem about it. [29:35] Law enforcement is in part about trust that people believe in that law. [29:40] And when the strongest, biggest player fails to enforce, let alone breaks that system, it [29:50] teaches the rest of the world that it's basically every man or woman for him or herself. [29:55] And we are living in that world. [29:58] And every day the Trump administration flouts that is a day where the world gets less safe [30:05] for all of us. [30:06] So what's the vision? [30:07] I want us to be first among equals to enforce international law. [30:11] That means obeying international law ourselves and then uplifting the institutions that protect [30:18] the world and then engaging and disciplining our engagement according to that international [30:24] law. [30:25] It would change the way that we engage a lot of the rest of the world, but we also could [30:31] rebuild the trust that we had about our commitment to the ideals that we say we're committed to. [30:38] Peace, dignity, self-determination, democracy. [30:41] I want to go back to your party leadership for a moment. [30:45] When you look back at the last two years as the party that was not in power in Congress, [30:51] not in power in the executive, do you think your party did enough to hold its ground for [30:56] the voters that did choose them? [30:57] On some issues, certainly. [31:03] You know, the last two years were the Trump show. [31:06] And, you know, as much as one would want them to hold their ground more, you know, [31:13] Donald Trump and his party, which is basically just Donald Trump and the cult of his personality, [31:18] have had power. [31:21] I think the American public has shown us that they are sick and tired of that. [31:25] So I really think the question is, what do we do next? [31:27] And where do we go from here? [31:29] But I've been clear, like, I want to change in leadership in the space where I'll be operating [31:37] in the United States Senate for a reason. [31:39] I think we need to go and affirmatively lead, right? [31:43] Take big bets on fighting for the American public. [31:46] Get caught trying. [31:47] Pass the law and force Donald Trump to veto it. [31:50] And then go out there and be like, look, Donald Trump does not want you to have health care. [31:54] Donald Trump does not want to stop a war that you're paying for in your tax dollars, gas, [31:58] groceries. [31:59] Donald Trump is the reason why you're paying $5,600 in my state alone because of a tariff [32:03] policy that makes no coherent sense. [32:06] Let's go fight on behalf of the public and see what happens. [32:08] There were naysayers within your own party about your run for office saying that you were too left, [32:16] you were too, quote, radical because of your policies around abolishing ICE, Medicare for [32:22] all, cutting off aid to Israel and weapons sales to Israel, and you won your race. [32:28] What do you think that says about what voters want from your party, what they want next? [32:33] I ran on three things, money out of politics, money in your pocket, Medicare for all. [32:41] Even when I spoke to two and three time Trump voters, when you'd ask them, so why are you [32:47] here? [32:48] They tell you, you don't want money out of politics, money in your pocket, Medicare for [32:51] all. [32:52] I think we assume that our politics are oriented around this left, right spectrum that hasn't [32:57] existed for years and years. [32:59] I think the real frame of debate in our politics is really about people who are locked out versus [33:06] the people doing the locking out, big corporations, billionaires, special interests. [33:11] They hold the keys. [33:13] We ran a campaign to take those keys back and open it up for people. [33:17] And look, I mean, I got outspent 11 to 1 in my primary alone, $70 million of primary. [33:23] That's a record for the amount of money spent in a primary in my own party. [33:26] And then in the general, we got outspent, what, $110 million? [33:29] It turns out that if you are consistent in what you believe and you have done the work of [33:37] listening to people, to understand what they want, that you can take on the power of big [33:41] money with the power of the many. [33:43] That's what democracy was supposed to be able to do. [33:45] So I think what this says is we need to reorient our politics around the people rather than [33:52] around the politics. [33:53] And that's what I'm trying to do. [33:56] We talked about your name. [33:58] And I know, I understand that. [34:00] You know, when I first did my first sign off on NPR, I did think about how to say my name [34:04] because we've anglicized it for so many decades, right? [34:06] And I said my name properly and people called the house saying, have we been calling you the [34:10] wrong name for years? [34:12] Because my mom had shifted it to Fidel. [34:15] And I know that a lot of Americans felt very seen in that moment. [34:21] But the campaign against you was so ugly for so many months. [34:27] And there were many Americans who themselves were reacting. [34:30] I talked to voters who were having panic attacks, who were wondering if this was going to work. [34:37] And then you won. [34:40] And I just wonder what it was like to actually live through that day in, day out, having people [34:46] call you names, but also call the entire civilization that is your ethnicity names, right? [34:53] Arabs, Muslims. [34:54] It wasn't just Abdul. [34:56] You know, I've never had the ability to assume myself to be normal, quote unquote, in any room [35:12] that I walked into. [35:13] I was raised by my dad and my stepmom, Jackie, who's the daughter of the American Revolution. [35:16] So even in my own house, we talk about code switching. [35:18] Like I was code translating the whole time. [35:22] You know, I'd visit my family in Egypt and I was the American. [35:26] I would come home to, you know, cottages on a lake in the middle of Michigan that my family's [35:31] had in the family for generations. [35:34] And, you know, obviously I had a different name and pray a different way. [35:39] You know, at school, I always carried the burden, but also the gift of my name. [35:45] So you get really good at identifying the least common denominator of what can connect you to [35:55] somebody because, you know, it becomes like a matter of survival. [35:58] Like, how do I explain myself in this place? [36:00] And so you're always trying to figure out, like, who are you and what are the common themes of humanity [36:06] that I, you know, I can engage you on? [36:10] A lot of folks don't have that set of experiences. [36:15] And so when I jumped into this race, I know what my name is. [36:18] I knew what was coming. [36:19] Like, I saw it a mile away. [36:21] But I also knew that people are good. [36:26] Michiganders are particularly good. [36:27] There was another moment in your victory speech where you referred to the vice president as [36:32] J.D. Habiby. [36:33] And it's really become kind of a touchstone, right? [36:37] There are hats being made. [36:38] There are T-shirts being made. [36:39] There are explainers being written by the Associated Press. [36:43] Like, it means beloved, but it can be bro or pal. [36:46] Did you know when you were, when you said that, that it was going to become this thing? [36:52] You know, it's funny. [36:54] Normally when I speak, I speak off the cuff. [36:57] I knew there was a lot I needed to get through in that speech. [36:59] So I actually wrote the speech. [37:01] Habiby wasn't in the speech. [37:03] But it was one of those moments where, you know, it was just, it was, you know, J.D. [37:10] Vance is a very particular kind of politician who represents the worst of the instincts of [37:16] our politics because he is so focused on his own ascension in power that he doesn't realize [37:25] he's leaving so many, not crumbs anymore, but just like full-on loaves of hypocrisy. [37:32] And so you kind of have to wonder, like, what about the psychology of the man has, has, like, [37:44] forced him into this to, like, so want power? [37:48] And so when I said it, like, it was almost like a sort of like, I'm so sorry for you. [37:55] Like, Habiby, like, you know, when you, when you just like, you need to see some love because [37:59] you clearly haven't gotten enough in your life. [38:01] But also there's that sense of just like, you know, you have mercilessly attacked me [38:08] for this thing about me that I'm actually really quite proud of. [38:11] You know, I love my, my heritage. [38:14] I'm grateful for it. [38:17] And it makes me no less American than you. [38:20] So welcome, right, to this moment where you are forced to reckon with the fact that both [38:28] your politics lost and they're ugly on their own terms. [38:31] And I think, you know, that sort of sense of both, I empathize for you because somewhere, [38:38] somewhere along the line, somebody should have loved you harder. [38:40] And also I'm going to, I'm going to tag you with this. [38:46] So you'll never, ever be able to escape the fact that people are going to call you an [38:50] Arabic word in your politics. [38:52] Now, yes, he's attacked you. [38:54] You've attacked him back. [38:55] You just called him a hypocrite. [38:56] You called him a coward. [38:58] I mean, it's just true of him. [38:59] Like identifying the truth about somebody is not an attack. [39:02] It's just true of him. [39:03] What will it be like to be sworn in by him? [39:09] You know, I hope he doesn't make it awkward. [39:12] I won't. [39:12] But, you know, there is, as I said, a delicious irony in the fact that he is constitutionally [39:19] obligated to swear me in. [39:21] Have you decided what you're going to swear in on? [39:23] I will likely swear on the Quran, which Quran we're not sure. [39:29] I mean, Thomas Jefferson had a copy of the Quran. [39:31] So when Keith Ellison was sworn in to Congress, he swore in on that copy. [39:38] There's also the first, the University of Michigan holds the first Quran in the state [39:46] of Michigan. [39:47] It's very, very old. [39:49] And that might be the choice. [39:51] So I don't know, but I'll swear on the Quran. [39:53] What would that feel like? [39:54] I mean, you are becoming, you're about to become the first Muslim senator in U.S. [39:58] history. [40:00] And you're one of many firsts, actually, in this election. [40:02] And it's, you know, I've gotten to spend time with the class I'm coming into. [40:07] I'm just really grateful for them. [40:09] Like, really just some amazing people who've come up against a lot of odds and serve from [40:15] the same sense of trying to make America bigger. [40:19] But, you know, it's less about what it means to me and more about what it means for America. [40:25] I mean, everybody has the experience of being told they're less than or excluded or that [40:31] they don't belong. [40:32] And that can be for a lot of different reasons, you know, for me, for obvious reasons. [40:37] But I hope that when people see that, there is the sense that America really is big enough [40:42] for you, right? [40:43] It really doesn't matter what your name is. [40:44] It doesn't matter how you pray. [40:46] Like, America is big enough. [40:47] And that's the amazing thing about this place. [40:49] You know, I, at times on the campaign trail, if somebody was asking me, like, oh, you must [40:54] be grateful to be done with the campaign. [40:57] And on the one hand, yes, that was an extremely arduous campaign. [41:00] And on the other, what a gift to get to do this. [41:04] I mean, my family immigrated from a place where there is no democracy. [41:09] There is no running for office. [41:10] Like, the idea, like, trying to explain this to my grandmother, who never got to go to [41:16] school, who understood that I was so lucky to be born and raised in America, to explain [41:21] to her that, you know, I would be elected by my state to the United States Senate, you [41:27] know, I hope someday I get to do that. [41:29] But what a gift. [41:31] And I miss it. [41:32] I miss the ability to, like, go and just have those conversations and spend my days talking [41:37] about how glorious our democracy is and what an opportunity we have to use it to solve [41:42] problems. [41:42] Now, the job is to use it to solve problems. [41:45] But I miss that, like, every day I used to be able to talk to thousands of people about [41:50] who we are and who we want to be. [41:51] Like, what a gift. [41:52] And whatever my name is, however I pray, I'm going to swear an oath to the Constitution, [41:57] right? [41:57] It's not the book that you swear on. [41:59] It's the book you swear allegiance to. [42:02] Yesterday, I got to spend a little bit of time in the National Archives with the original [42:06] copy of the Constitution. [42:08] And the administrator who is there with us, he's like, I've heard you talk about this [42:14] before. [42:14] I said, yep. [42:16] He's like, what's it like to see it? [42:17] And, you know, it was one of those moments where I was like, this document is the reason [42:23] that no matter how I pray, that I could stand to or run for office and that the folks in [42:30] my state could elect me. [42:33] What an amazing thing. [42:34] Not every country has that. [42:36] And, like, we should not take it for granted. [42:39] Senator-elect Abdul El-Sayed or Abdul Rahman Mohamed El-Sayed, thank you for your time. [42:44] Thank you for the lovely interview. [42:46] Thank you. [42:48] New episodes of Newsmakers can publish anytime. [42:54] So to stay caught up, subscribe on YouTube or follow on Spotify or catch us on the NPR app. [42:59] I'm Laila Fadil. [43:00] Thanks for watching NPR's Newsmakers. [43:02] Newsmakers. [43:20] Thanks for watching.