Well, good morning, everybody. I hope everybody's doing great on this beautiful Thursday. Man, we've had some, with the exception of the beginning of the week, it is turning out to be a great weather week, and it looks like it's going to be great for about the next seven or eight days. So thanks for being here this morning. We'll call our Thursday, November 13, 2025 work session to order, and we have a very full agenda today, so we'll dig right into it with our Tampa Bay water update. And I believe we have Chuck and the guys from Tampa Bay water, so welcome. Come on up, guys. Well, good morning. I am Chuck Cardin, the general manager for Tampa Bay water. I've been with the organization since 1993, and I've been the general manager for the last five years. I want to thank you all for having me here today to provide an update on Tampa Bay water. We were formed in 1998 by the member governments we serve, and they include Hillsborough, Pasco, and Pinellas counties, the cities of Newport-Ritchie, St. Petersburg, and Tampa. And Commissioner Eggers and Commissioner Peters sit on our board on behalf of Pinellas County. Our mission is simple, to reliably provide clean, safe water to the Tampa Bay region now and for future generations. We do that by supplying our members with an average of about 209 million gallons a day of water. Pinellas purchases about 50 million gallons a day from us, and that provides essentially all of the water for the customers that you all serve. Our distribution system is shown in this graphic, and it includes 13 wellfields, two surface water intakes, a seawater desal plant, and a 15.5 billion gallon reservoir. And we also have 21 points of connection to all of our six members. We maintain this network and supply water to all of the members for about $2.64 per thousand. And we budget every year, and that rate is recalculated, and we've kept it pretty steady over the last several years. As we're going to show you here in a few slides, we're in a growth pattern here, and we're going to be spending some money. But the board did something very, very wise a few years ago. Their plan was to stock up on our reserves. So we've saved up on our reserves. We have a rate stabilization account that we are now being able to utilize to keep the rates at an affordable measure. Instead of an upward slope with the new growth, we are keeping it at a level playing field going forward. Hey, Chuck. Yes, sir. Can I ask you to just pause for one quick second? And I neglected to do one thing on the front end. Can I have a motion to allow Commissioner Latvallum? Okay. All right. All in favor? All right. Thank you. Chris, if you need to take a break or can't stay for the whole thing, we understand completely. But we're just glad to have you with us today for as long as you can participate. All right. Thanks, Chuck. Appreciate it. All righty. Well, our system is very complex. And every day we deliver a blend of treated water. We are the only water supply system in the country that blends seawater, river water, and groundwater together. These sources all vary in cost. So blending them keeps the wholesale... Yes, you're at our missus. Our blending keeps the wholesale water rate affordable. And it also allows us for more dependability, especially in drought and in emergency conditions. Because of where the Pinellas County interconnects with us, you predominantly get groundwater here in the county. And you can see on the pie chart the distribution for the 2026 fiscal year. It's not quite 50-50 with groundwater in the river and desal, but it's getting closer and closer. Once upon a time, it was 100% groundwater. And that was part of the creation of Tampa Bay Water to move that pie chart. Over the years, we have gone through cycles of growth and cycles of maintenance. We are currently back in the growth phase. And this chart shows the story about growing, comparing our 2025 actual demands by our members and the projected demands over the next 20 years. We have enough water right now to meet the region's needs. But over the next few years, we've got to work hard to expand our regional system to meet the demands in the year 2028 and the year 2033 and beyond. The fastest-growing areas are southern Hillsborough County and central to eastern Pasco counties. Right now, a majority of our CIP budget will be spent on expanding our surface water treatment plant, starting the South Hillsborough Wellfield Project, and expanding our distribution pipeline system in the southern Hillsborough area. The surface water treatment plant expansion will expand the plant to 140 million gallons per day. And once that expansion is complete, it will provide an additional 12.5 million gallons of water to the region than what it is doing today. The plant is considered the workhorse of our system. It is located near the fairgrounds in Brandon. We have finished the design and permitting, and construction is starting later this month. Just recently, the board approved another new supply, the South Hillsborough Wellfield. The facility could bring between 6 and 12 million gallons of new water to the region as early as the year 2030. About half the water for this wellfield comes from permits that we have acquired from private landowners in the area who no longer needed them. The remaining 6 million gallons a day will come from an agreement, if we can reach it with the Hillsborough County staff, to purchase aquifer recharge credits. We are continuing to negotiate with the county on this issue, and the wellfield will be built in phases, and the design is scheduled to start next year. We are currently trying to get some property, so we are in the process of acquisition of land. We are close to starting, and actually on Monday we will be starting construction on the new South Hillsborough pipeline. And the pipeline is 26 miles long, and it ranges in size between 3 and 5 feet in diameter. It will connect our system to two Hillsborough County water treatment plants. The pipeline is being funded by not only Tampa Bay Water, but Hillsborough County and the Southwest Florida Water Management District. The plans are to have the pipeline completed by the end of the year 2028. We also continue to look at projects for implementation beyond the 2033 timeline. We are currently conducting feasibility studies for these projects shown on this map, and the plan is to be recommending to our board new water supply projects in year 2027. And as you can see, I think Project C on this list is a project near Lake Tarpon, and we have been coordinating with your staff on this project. Regardless of the source of your drinking water, all the water provided by Tampa Bay Water meets or surpasses all the local, state, and federal standards. And as those standards change, we are always taking proactive steps to ensure that we always meet these regulations. The last time I presented to you, we were studying PFAS, or what they call forever chemicals. They make their way into the raw water sources. The EPA issued new PFAS regulations that will take effect in the year 2031. The new limits have been challenged by others, and we are closely watching that, but we are proceeding as though the regulations will not change. We continue to sample the system alongside of with our members, and we meet the new standards except for three connection points that we have in Hillsborough County that are slightly above these new regulations. You can see them on the graph of the three stars in orange. We have a plan to address these locations based on a water quality study that we started a few years back. The study also included looking at reducing the total organic carbon in our system at various locations. When the EPA issued its new regulations, we updated the study in coordination with your staff, and we also will be using this basis for a recommendation to our board early next year. The final recommendations will address both PFAS and the total organic carbon reductions in the system. And with that, I would like to thank you for allowing me to give you a brief overview, and I'm happy to answer any questions. Questions for Chuck? Let's. Sure. Yes. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. I appreciate it. You know, Tampa Bay Water's, the regional effort is quite, it's impressive when I visited your plant. But I had a couple questions for you on water quality and conservation programs. Yes, sir. Because I would assume that's very important, too. Do you have a public water conservation outreach program, educational program, teach people how to conserve water? Yes, sir. We have a program called WaterWise. We actually have a staff person at Tampa Bay Water that coordinates it, but also coordinates it with all the members. There's a sitting team from each of the member governments that meet once a month. But it's a, the WaterWise program is primarily a rebate program. It has 13 rebates that vary, toilet change-outs and showerhead change-outs, even some larger industrial ones with the cooling water. And so that program has an ambitious goal of saving 3.8 million gallons a day by the year 2030. And on Monday, our board meeting, we'll announce that we went over the 1 million gallons saved to date. So we have a little ways to go, but we are very active in the conservation efforts. Great. Would that also include maybe education on plants and the type of low-water plantings that would be good for the community of Florida? Yes, we also support every year. We give the three counties about $250,000 is what we give to all three of the counties. They work with IFAS, and we let the folks at University of Florida and the agri-folks in each of the counties address that. They have workshops. They do quite a thing. I have an annual report that they put out for us, and I would be happy to provide that with you, give you the highlights of that program. And the use of fertilizers and pesticides, you've got information that you provide on when it's good to use those and when it's not and when it affects our water quality? Yes, sir. That's a part of that program. They have various workshops to educate folks on what to use and what not to use. They also have workshops on how to make your yard smart with their sprinkler systems, and also the Florida-Friendly Landscaping Program is involved in that as well. Thank you. I'm sure J.P. will be covering that at the presentation here in a bit. I just didn't know if they work together. That's what I'm trying to figure out. Well, it is because it's on the agenda later. I didn't realize that. Any other questions? Just a comment. Yeah, Chuck and team, thank you for being here today and the work that you do. I think it's important that we continue to emphasize to folks that we're working on that next water supply source and hopefully one that's less expensive than we've had to do in the last couple. We continue about every five years to look at that. It used to be every 10 years, but with the growth in the area and the demand on water, we've now upped it. So we're now in the throes of almost starting construction on the, I call it, the 2028 water supply project and starting to narrow down the possibilities for that 2033 water supply project. So it's always kind of looking forward and trying to at least make things happen in as cost effective way as we can and maintaining the less pressures on that rate that each of the counties get. So a lot of the growth obviously is in Pasco and Hillsboro, but we certainly are enjoying the efforts, the combined efforts of those three entities and three major cities that are involved. And, and, and I obviously our work here. So just want to commend your staff for the work that they do and supplying a, a, a very secure source and now diversified source of water for this area. So aside from all of that, we need some rain. I get it. So, uh, yes, that's, thank you. You're very welcome. Thank you, Paul. Thank you. I wanted to just, you know, to finish up, uh, you, you alluded to it, commissioner, uh, regional cooperation, uh, back in 1998, when we turned in Tampa Bay water, we use just coming off of water wars where everyone was fighting over the battle for water. And, um, we've proven this, this entity, uh, this agency that you're a part of put together a regional plan with, uh, with the other five members. And it's worked in a huge success. And I'd like, you know, to, to consider that a model for, for other things in the area that could be worked with in conjunction with others. Well, it, it certainly has been a, a big plus and I, you know, it doesn't mean we don't have some battles along the way, but they're nothing like the battles back in the nineties with water wars. And then all of the issues trying to get the organization set up, uh, minuscule, uh, but we do have those differences sometimes because some of us are in growth areas and others are not. And, uh, but we, we're at the table and we're talking and we're working together on it. So anyway, thank you. Thank you very much. Chuck. Thank you very much. Always nice to see you. Thank you. All right. Take care. Okay. Uh, before we move on to, um, the next item, uh, commissioner, that valid, did you have any questions or, or comments before we, uh, move on to our new campus? Uh, no, sir. Just that, uh, I love each, each one of y'all and I miss you. And I hope to be back soon. We miss you too. Yep. We love to miss you as well, Chris. Yeah. We have to raz Dave Eggers for you. Yeah. It's not the same around here without you giving him a hard time. Yeah. Brian and I are carrying on the legacy. Good to see you brother. Yeah. All right. Uh, well then we'll move on to a new campus headquarters. Okay. So, um, Blaine is going to be on his way up and, um, Leanne, uh, they'll introduce, uh, the team, but Blaine will kind of kick it off. So they've been, you know, hard at work, uh, looking at the new campus, but now we're really starting to get into the design. So they're going to kind of go through some of the, the bigger kind of ideas stuff, but this is where we're going to kind of get, start getting into the meat and potatoes where we want your feedback and your ideas and thoughts, things that they can look at. Um, coming up later this month, um, Blaine, the chief judge and I and Ken Burke are going to go down to Miami and look at a couple of courthouses down there that are similar in nature, um, and look at their ideas and what they've done. So, so we're just now starting to get into where we're, we're going to have serious discussions and be reacting to something. So that's, today's the kickoff of an ongoing process for the next year to do that. Thank you, Barry. Good morning, commissioner. Delighted to be here today to update you on our progress on this exciting project. Got several folks with me today. Some that, you know, some that you have seen before. We have Leanne Korsch, senior VP and Southeast Regional Manager for Public Institutions and Education Solutions with CBRE and has been with us since the ground floor. Uh, Christine Bishop-Johnson, a senior principal and director of civic and justice at HOK, our architects, and beside her, Jonathan Ray, senior principal and senior regional practice leader at HOK as well. And we had a surprise, uh, guest supporting the team today, Lori Rice-Turner with Ajax, a project development manager, and, uh, appreciate you being here today, Lori. And, uh, if you didn't know, Ajax is constructing the new Clearwater City Hall. Uh, so that's some of their work you can admire close to home. So with a little bit of background, I'm going to turn it over to Leanne since she was here since the inception. Thank you, Blaine. Um, I've, I've been here and before you several times before. Um, and this slide, we're not going to spend a lot of time on, but just want to, uh, brief, briefly recap where we've been and then get into the meat and potatoes of, HOK's fine work. Um, the challenge, as you all well know, is that, uh, the, the county is currently occupying 14 different inefficient facilities in downtown Clearwater, and, uh, it's not centrally located for citizen, uh, access. So this, uh, project really offers you a great opportunity to right-size county operations from over 560,000 square foot down to, you know, around the 317,000 square foot mark. Um, so where we have been is planning to get to the design work. Uh, we centrally, or we mapped the weighted population center of the county, uh, to help with, to help inform the site selection of the ICOP property. And, uh, we're now moving on toward the planning. You all approved last summer, the design firm, HOK, and as Bear, or Blaine just mentioned, Ajax, the, the construction manager at risk. So with that, I will turn it back over to Blaine to talk about some of those recent activities I just mentioned. Uh, so we're moving forward on several fronts. Um, first off, the site plan development, which we're going to share with you today. Uh, and that's allowed us to begin having some of our permitting, uh, meetings with some of the approving authorities, uh, such as the development review committee with the city of Largo. And we've got that DRC application in process. We've also met with, uh, FDOT and PSTA. Uh, we've got a pre-application meeting with them. And later today, we're meeting with SWIFMUD, uh, to talk to them about the project. As well, uh, we do have a traffic study in progress. Uh, some of the first, uh, signals we got from FDOT was that we may not be able to have a traffic light right there at our entrance, but we are still, we're still pursuing that. Uh, we've also met with all the stakeholders. And when I say stakeholders, I mean the tenants that are actually moving into, um, uh, the new building, the new campus, uh, to confirm, uh, Gensler, if you remember, that was the architect that was hired to do that, that test space program. And so one of the first things HOK has to do is confirm that and make sure that all the right questions have been asked. And so we've, we've completed that. And we've also met with our governance structure. And if you'll remember, uh, we've got an executive committee of, uh, uh, several different, uh, disciplines and, and, and expertise within our staff that helped to be close to the architects and give some of that feedback. And then at Barry's direction, we do meet with the appointing authorities and review everything with them. So what you're seeing today and hearing today has been vetted by those two groups coming forth to you. Um, we, uh, what we're hearing from the stakeholders, and you can see the stakeholder feedback here, you know, that campus setting and that, that site, uh, as, as, uh, uh, view with you, you know, lends itself to an interior courtyard, uh, something that, uh, our stakeholders felt like was important, a common secured entrance. Uh, Barry has been adamant about that from day one, that we are able to afford security and secure screening to, uh, both our, the tenants and the folks that come to visit us. Exterior public plaza, uh, on Olmerton. And, uh, that, that can be, uh, if there has to be any type of public protest, that's an appropriate area to have that type of thing. Um, development services should be a standalone operation is what we didn't want it where people are coming for transactions and permitting and things of that nature, not to have to wind their way through the, uh, judicial or administration building. So we've got those separate and you'll see that. Um, what you'll see today too, is that not just laying out the site in terms of what we need to build in the next, um, two or three years, but the site for future, you know, growth so that we can maximize it. We're not assuming growth will happen, but you want to lay out a site so that it's, it's, uh, done well. And so, and we also have a central energy plant with scalable, scalable options. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Jonathan to walk you through the, uh, site design. All right. As, as everybody's familiar, the, uh, site is located at the corner of, uh, Olmerton and Icon. Uh, I was, as was mentioned by Blaine, uh, we are centralizing, uh, the buildings around a, uh, uh, protected courtyard. The, uh, two main buildings, the justice building and the admin building, uh, each face the major roads with the justice building have a prep or having a presence on Olmerton, the admin building facing Icot, uh, that, uh, common secured, uh, lobby, uh, connection point is the connection point between the two buildings forming roughly an L type shape. Uh, the site, uh, it will be served by an 1100 car parking garage and the development services building, uh, as mentioned is standalone and serviced by its own parking lot, uh, to make sure, uh, as part of our master plan effort, we, uh, plan for additional expansion, uh, uh, of the site, uh, identifying a couple of locations where potential future buildings could be, uh, and also, uh, allowing for future expansion of the parking garage. The, uh, central energy plant will serve the campus as a whole and will also be expandable for any, uh, future, um, uh, additions to the, uh, overall campus. So as Wayne mentioned earlier, we've been doing a lot of work, not just with the site, but also meeting with all the stakeholders to validate the program that was initially, uh, put together. So the culmination of that, we are very close in square footage to what we were looking at previously. Um, and what we've been doing is adding layers of detail to how the different departments will operate together in this new consolidated campus. Uh, so some of what you're seeing on the screen is this is how the buildings would, would stack up. So as Jonathan just mentioned, um, we have that shared lobby. That's that purple, uh, block that you see on this, uh, diagram right now. That would be where everyone would be coming through the building, that one secure point. And then you're able to venture off into the justice wing of the building. If you are going to a consolidated service, uh, center for dealings with the property appraiser or the clerk of court. Um, if you're coming to a meeting such as this in the county commission space, you would be going through that security and venturing off into the left hand or the, uh, yellow portion of the building, the admin portion of the building. Um, and on the ground floor have access to rooms such as this, that you would have, um, a formal, uh, commission chambers, what, what we would call it. That would also provide some access in that, that space for multifunction training rooms that could be used by any of the stakeholders that are on the campus or really anyone within the county. Um, as we're looking at other, uh, portions of the site, we've got the development services building. As Jonathan mentioned, that is a separate standalone building that would not have the same security provision, um, with the screen security. And that again would have a, a one-stop, uh, service desk that would be the interaction points for members of the public coming in to do their business with, um, you know, building review, that type of thing. Um, we've got the standalone parking garage that's shown here as well. And Jonathan talked a little bit about it. Um, there's a central energy plant that's intended to be able to service the entirety of the campus. Can I, can we ask questions as we go or you want us to wait? So my question is for administration and for the justice building for the judges and whatnot, do you have separate parking other than the garage? Because for obvious reasons, the judges entrance and then, you know, I'm sorry, personal privilege. I'm not walking from that garage all the way over to the building. That's a great question. So as we look at this slide, uh, the blue that you see on the bottom left-hand side of the screen, that would be, uh, a fenced in enclosed secure parking for judicial staff. And then the purple that's, uh, at the tip of the admin building, that would be for, um, members such as yourselves, uh, secure parking access there. The majority of the staff will be entering coming from the parking garage and walking along, uh, the public or the, uh, protected courtyard there to be able to get to that point of, uh, entry. But we have had meetings with the sheriff's department. They are willing to entertain separate entries for, uh, staff to come in at the point of the justice building and the other point of the admin building. So as we start to get into floor plans, we'll refine that even more, but the intent is to have secure parking for those locations. Will those walkways be covered? I know we kind of talked about that before. That's something that we're looking at as well. And we're just, I would hate for staff to get soaking wet coming from the garage over to their workspace. And commissioner, some of those conversations are ongoing, right? I'm actually meeting with them today because, you know, they're asking about adjacencies to where people are in different departments and who they should be next to and stuff. Part of that goes to the flow of the building. When you come in, how do our judges enter? How do they get to their courtrooms? Obviously not through the main corridor, right? And so the same thing for commissioners of where your offices are, where you park, how do you flow, um, you know, in, um, and those are, could be separate entrances secure. Those are security issues we're working through with the sheriff's office, but, um, we, there's a lot of detail like that, that we're, we're beginning to have those conversations. And I, and I want to understand that, you know, when you come into your meeting and you can exit, you don't have to go out through the main, go across the street and get accosted by a guy on a bike, right? You know, and, and those types of things. So those are important. And, and we're, we're just now having those types of conversations. Okay. Just thought I'd ask. Thank you, sir. So just to, um, go through the circulation on the site, the, uh, the yellow is the vehicle access. Uh, there's two main entrances coming into the site. One is an existing, uh, entrance on the Northern side of the site, which is the top of the page. Uh, we'd have a second entrance off of I caught, uh, enters at the middle. You'd be able to pull straight into the parking garage, or, uh, as most employees may do, they may come from the North side and circulate on the backside to get to the parking garage. Uh, there'd also be vehicle, um, uh, um, service access in that bottom left hand corner, um, for deliveries, um, and service access to the central energy plant. Uh, once you're in the parking garage, you would circulate across through the courtyard into the secure entry point. When I saw the original, when it just popped and it was like, it just seemed constrained as far as access goes. So, um, just, I'm, are these all going to be two lane roads in and out? Um, and I, I guess that we'll just start with that first. Yeah. Yeah. Um, we're doing traffic analysis, uh, of this, the, those studies are, um, ongoing right now, uh, of making sure that we have proper access coming into the site, the proper number of turn lanes coming in, proper number of turn lanes turning out. Uh, and that will help us size these roads. But our general plan right now is allowing for, um, you know, a widening of these roads if they need to. Um, but we think we have it pretty close right now. Well, that, and you answered one of my questions, which was, are we doing internal traffic studies as well based on what we've got here? Yeah. What we, you know, because it's just, again, this whole light issue on Ulmerton, which is FDOT have control of Ulmerton road. Yes. They do. They do. They do. I mean, that's a, that's a big deal. Um, again, we have certain times of the day that we're pretty crowding where we have it now. Everybody just kind of goes in 10 different directions because we have so many access points. Um, so without having that light there, you obviously we're going to have some, some issues. Yeah. And that's what the traffic study is going to tell us, is what, what sort of, uh, accommodations are going to need to be made for, um, the number of visitors visiting this site. And then you can see on the parking garage, it has three entrances to come in and out of it. Uh, and that's based on some studies that we've already, uh, worked through so that, uh, people can get in and out of the parking garage relatively quickly. We're all, we're all pretty creative in trying to find our quickest way in and out. Um, so there's a light over on, I guess, uh, on the other side of ICOT center that accesses. And then there's 58th Avenue, I guess it goes up towards, um, is it East Bay or East Bay, West Bay, I guess it connects up there. So, I mean, we're, if we don't answer it, if we don't solve the problem there, it's going to, you know, I don't know what it's going to do. So that's the interesting part to hear about from the, from the trap, from the traffic study. Um, commissioner, you know, you mentioned, you know, the entrance to the site, if, if, and the, the light's kind of a big deal because, you know, obviously people will flow differently if, if we don't have a light because it'll go down to the other light, but we're not all, we're also not opposed to making internal circulation enhancements within the park. So if people are coming that way, they can easily find through wayfinding or even, you know, changes in the road design or whatever, how to get over to the site. So depending upon the outcome of that, we'll look broader to make sure that, that we do this right to where people can easily find and make their way over to our location. Um, and again, on the development, just moving to development review, I'm, I'm assuming we're taking into account as far as parking for folks on the North side of that development review services building. And we're talking to our folks about technology improvements and, and how that hopefully brings, requires less people coming to the site, um, and how that would fluctuate as well. That's correct. We've had extensive conversations about, um, how improvements are being made to delivery of service and, and what that may do in the future for numbers of, uh, patrons coming to the site. And that, that will continue to be an ongoing discussion. Um, but we have a pretty good baseline that we're starting with and what we're planning for, for the future there. Yeah. I think that's people are going to, I mean, I think contractors, et cetera, will love coming to this location versus the other one, but they'd even love it more if they didn't have to come to a location and they could do it all virtually. And I'm sure, I know we're working on some of that as well. Um, okay. So technology, um, that's it for now. I'll have some others along the way, but thank you. You have questions. Yes, sir. Um, thank you very much. So I used to work at ICOT with Gulf Coast. So I took this turn in every day for 13 years. So when you're turning off of Olmerton Road on the ICOT Boulevard, there is, it's just one lane coming in and then the one lane going out. You have, um, like the whole little business complex immediately on the right. Then you have smaller office buildings, the hotel, huge swath of vacant land, and then Gulf Coast back there. And then on the other side where the, um, lightning was practicing, which I enjoyed that. Um, so, um, I'm just sharing if there's any widening of the road, um, for the entryway that could potentially eat up some of the entryway for those businesses on that side. We want to be good neighbors. Um, so just sharing that part. The, um, public plaza down here in the corner, I think it's wonderful to have places where people can go grab a bite to eat or something or just get some fresh air. But I guess my question would be, since you have potentially, I'm going to say protected entrance. If you have the protected entrances there, then would that not cause an issue for a protected entrance where you have a public plaza where just individuals can go? Just asking a question. Um, and then you have protected courtyard. So does that mean, well, what does that mean? So the protected courtyard is in a sense that it's protected from the other buildings. So it's, it's insular looking, um, that public plaza, the intent would be, um, that that is an area that's more, um, you recognize that this is your new government and justice campus. Um, as you're driving by, that's an area that can be designated for, um, protest events that takes you out of where the majority of the people coming to service, um, to get services in the building are, are circulating within the site. Uh, the intent would be that there is not an entry to the building on that side. Um, we want one point of entry for the public coming in, and that would be coming from the protected courtyard side into the building. And that's from a standpoint of best practice on how you flow through the security queuing, um, and how, you know, the sheriff's office is able to maintain the security of that lobby. Um, so views out, but not an entrance in from the public plaza. And the dark green that goes from the corner up here all around the back, is that just representative of the barrier or separation from, um, the property that's on the backside? Yeah, that's part of the storm, the existing storm water management, um, uh, for the site. Uh, right now it's fairly heavily treed and our intent is to keep, uh, all the trees that we're able to along that border. It's nice and shady. It is. There's actually a number of nice trees on the site. We've completed a tree survey identifying the health and size of each of the trees. And then my last thing, Mr. Chair, I agree with needing a light there because when the light turns on 58th, which takes traffic to the epicenter and all of those businesses along there, it can get kind of bottlenecked, but then that's less than a block. The, one of the issues may be is less than a block. If you have from light to light, because you have the, um, traffic that merges from 34th street, you know, that's coming on, that will be a light. And then less than a block, you would have the light for 58th. And then there's a nice little stretch until you get to 49th for the next light. So I'm hopeful that they would see some type of mechanism there to control traffic because it can delay you if you don't catch it. If you don't catch it at the right time for the light turning on 58th, that does have a turn lane light and then three lanes for through traffic. Yeah. Um, on the, uh, judicial building, um, what's the square footage that they have now? I mean, we have the judicial center over on 49th street, clearly around the corner. Um, we have square footage now, which is really the fourth floor and the library, I guess. So really, I guess the question is like, how big are these floors and why four stories? I mean, that's just a thought. Remember the, this was also like the clerk of courts and he's throughout, you know, uh, 315. Uh, so it's all his staff and all the functions that they perform over in that justice. Fourth floor. Our current fourth floor. Well, not, but it's not just the fourth floor as would go in the justice center, the clerk of courts offices, which are throughout 315 down on the first floor and, um, in all the marriage license and here and there, all that would be consolidated over in the justice center. Okay. Okay. So it's far more than just the fourth floor. Yeah. I gotcha. So, so the intent for the justice wing of the building on the lower level, the ground floor of that building, we would have jury assembly space, which is a relatively large space. We would have the marriage ceremony spaces, and then we would have a consolidated counter area for all of those clerk functions. So when you walk over to 315 now and you see the different pockets of space that would all be consolidated into one service zone so that your, um, constituents know where to go. And unless they're going to court, they don't really have a need to circulate up in the building. The second floor of that building would be intended for the staff that supports, uh, the clerk's office and the functions of the court. And then the third and the fourth floor would be dedicated to, uh, courtroom and hearing room space, as well as judicial chambers and other court support functions from a technology standpoint that support either the clerk or the, uh, judges. And then the access issue that Commissioner Flowers was talking about, we, I like the idea of the, having the center at one point of entry. So it kind of cuts down on, on having two different places. That other area, is it going to be like the system at the courthouse now where employees can swipe their, swipe themselves through? There's a, there's also a guard at the back entrance. That's correct. Courthouse. So that's still in discussion with the sheriff's office, but right now we're planning for space that it could be, uh, um, I'll call it a manned position where someone from the sheriff's office is sitting there and watching as employees swipe in to make sure you don't have tailgating. Um, but we also have planned enough space that if, uh, from a security perspective, you choose to have staff screened with x-ray and magnetometer, that that could be fitted there in the future. Um, just want to make sure that we provide you that flexibility, that you have the entry point and you have the infrastructure there so that you can operate in, in whatever, uh, capacity you would like. Thank you. I also want to remember this is a little bit different style of building. It's not a criminal court building. Um, you know, and, and so, um, just the, the uses of the building. Those are some of the discussions we're going to have when we go down to Miami, um, you know, and look at some of the ways because it's similar type operations, non-criminal court type activities. It's not your main courthouse, a lot of your probate, a lot of your other types of activities. Thank you, chair. Um, just a quick, um, going back to the maps, I guess. Um, is there, I guess to me, it looks, I mean, pretty like bottled necked and I mean, I don't know if we've gotten into the detail of like how many exits of the parking garage, cause like if there isn't 1100 people, you know, and you get, you know, 500 people for, you know, they want to come and, you know, lobby their government. I mean, exiting a parking garage, I mean, can be time consuming and very bottled necked if you only have like one exit out of the parking garage, but then I have a concern and maybe it hasn't been addressed yet, or maybe you guys thought about it. I mean, what if there's like a medical emergency or a fire? I mean, it seems like a a fire truck or something would have like a hard time like navigating and like getting through like up next to a building. Um, if you got these like secured lots and things like that, you know, can you maybe touch on some of the emergency? Like if someone needs 911, like medical services or a fire? Yes. That's part of the conversations we still need to have with the fire marshal on, um, on how they would access this site and what accommodations we need to make for them. Um, we believe we have, uh, what they would need to be able to access the site right now and we'll confirm that with them. The parking garage itself, we have a parking garage consultant, um, who will run, um, uh, some trip calculations, uh, exiting calculations to make sure that the three entrance, three entrance slash exits that we're showing right now, uh, will work. Some, some of those may be, um, switch lanes where it's three lanes coming in the middle lane in the morning is an entrance and in the afternoon it's an exit. So that way you have potentially as many as six lanes exiting the building or six lanes entering the building in the morning. Perfect. Thank you. Okay. Well, according to our timeline, if you can believe this, uh, since you bought the property at the end of 23, we are halfway done to occupying this building. And, you know, the process is just a series of progression. Um, and, you know, as we talked about, uh, Gensler was hired to kind of do that, uh, initial space program. HOK has validated that, uh, right now we're in the throes of circulating what's called a blocking and stacking diagram, uh, wanting to understand, like we've talked about today, what floor things go on and which departments need to be adjacent to each other. And, and once they have that information, coupled with this site layout, which we brought to you today, they can begin drawing. And we're within probably a month and a half of beginning to generate drawings, uh, which will take the form of schematic design. And we'll come back and check in with you again. Uh, design development will be after that and then construction drawings. Uh, so we are, we are progressing pretty rapidly. I do want to add to, if I had to pick one word for, for this project thus far, at least the direction from Barry, it's efficiency. And I want to remind you all that, uh, this is going to be a big change, uh, for our employees. Um, this is based on sharing workstations and offices and the space program that HOK has completed takes every single person into account in each of the departments, whether they have a workstation or a small office, how big those are, that's all been baked into it right now. Um, so we are, um, we are, we are confirming, uh, Gensler's, you know, that 317,000 square foot number, we are within that. And so things are progressing along nicely. Um, as far as next steps, we're really running two concurrent, uh, paths right now. One is the government campus center. And so we are, uh, we've, we've submitted our development review committee. Um, we're doing this blocking and stacking I talked about, and that's going to lead into the schematic design, but also some test fits for how this is working. And some, and Robert Shaw, if you'll remember familiar face to you, uh, he's on vacation right now. Uh, but he, uh, uh, love that, that term kit of parts. And so we're making sure that these modules work within, uh, the building. Uh, and we will come back to you and talk to you about, uh, that exterior building concept in the future. Now, at the same time, being very mindful of time, uh, it's necessary. And you've directed that we're going to dispose of these 14 buildings, uh, in downtown Clearwater. That is not something that happens very quickly. Uh, so we need to start with an RFP and we put it out on the street and what we've been doing, uh, because very directed and you've supported letting the city of Clearwater really speak into what their vision is for, uh, downtown Clearwater. And they've been very engaged with that. Uh, we just had a meeting yesterday, uh, CBRE is preparing that draft of a RFP. Uh, and we will be coming to you at the appropriate point in the future to declare those property surplus in advance of having this, um, uh, solicitation. So all of this y'all is going on concurrently right now. Um, so with that, that's our presentation. I know we've asked some questions along the way, but do y'all have any remaining questions? Any other questions? Um, well, first of all, I think, you know, I'm glad to hear that we, um, your group, you know, we're, we're comfortable with the previous work determining where we are. Um, and really, really, I mean, we continue hearing from, you know, from different folks about the importance of that building department being super, super user-friendly. I mean, the world today is very different than it was 10 years ago, but I expect with technology changes it's going to next 10 years are going to be even, you know, completely different on how we do that work. And clearly being able to be responsive is critically important. So I'm hoping that that whole overlay of technology and, and, and when you go down to South state to kind of look at what they're doing, you know, see how those changes are, are, are, are coming along as well. And then the only other thing is that, that experience that our residents have coming here. I mean, I, I'm all about taking care of our employees as well, but at the same time, when they come for, you know, a 15 minute drop in, I want to, I have to climb all the way up to the fourth floor of a garage and there should be some, you know, again, I'm not trying to get into those little details, but I just want that general experience to be a good one and not be, I mean, if they're going to be there for an hour or two, that may be different than just a 15 minute drop in for whatever thing that they're doing. So, so as we think about that garage and how that's managed and how that's all done, I think that's going to be important as well, but I'm looking forward to that design work because that's really where it starts to happen. And, and back to your cost comparisons and where we are now, that's going to be where we're starting to rubber in the road meeting. So I'm looking forward to that piece as well, but you say we're on schedule to 26, 26 is going to be about what, what would you say in general, we're going to be doing in 26, finishing the design, permitting, and actually starting maybe some construction? Yes, sir. We are considering whether or not to go ahead and demolish the old car dealership. Although we've talked internally, it's going to, again, we're going to be sharing workstations. You know, this is an efficient, modern workplace and it's, it's not unique. It's, it's being done in other places. And so, you know, you know, work state, you won't have, an employee may not have an assigned workstation. They'll come in because maybe somebody's working remote that day and they'll occupy that. And I say that to say that we really, and Barry has directed that, we want to make sure that we make this as easy and understandable for our employees as possible. So we've talked about doing mock-ups within that building before tearing it down so that we can take people over there and say, here's the layout. Here's a sample layout, a part of that kit of parts to say, this is what that place would look like. So the first time they're seeing it, it's not the first day that we walk into the new building. So that is, so there may be some site demolition you might see, Commissioner Eggers. But what we hope to do is bring you the guaranteed maximum price for you to vote on the very beginning of 27. And on that site plan that you have, where is that building sitting? Is it sitting on top of the development review? It's right in the middle of the site. Oh, really? It's an old car lot. So you had the sea of parking around it and the building right in the middle. Right in that circular driveway area? If you go to the circulation. So if you go here, that traffic circle in the middle, it's probably just behind that, would you say, Christine? Yeah. Right there. Yeah. And Commissioner Eggers, if I could, you bring up a great, a great point. And I want you to say, tell you that it wasn't lost on us. And in fact, you can see it in the title, resident experience. And when we first got into this and stakeholders, we talked about laying the site out and this isn't, it's not a huge deviation. There's, there's, there's been more added to it from what Gensler had originally envisioned. But this courtyard, you know, when I first, I started thinking about employees, you know, and what their experience would be taking a break or coming across there. But that evolved into, you know, when we started laying out the drives and everything, it's going to be important for a lot of folks don't come see us very often. They may come in to do something once a year or maybe only once. And so that's why this layout of traffic circulation was laid out so that when somebody is driving in, they can get oriented pretty quickly as to what buildings are where. And we're going to have very good wayfinding to help assist with that. So we were thinking about employees to begin with, but that quickly transitioned to resident experience and navigating the site. And you'll see in the consolidation, it's all about resident experience. When they enter the building and think about that, just from Ken Burke's spot, you know, right now you've got it all over the place. You've got one spot to go for those types of operations. Over here's development services. Over here, you know, here's your public meeting rooms. It's easy to come in and, and know where you're going. Very different than where we are now, obviously. So it'll be, it'll be a while to think about. You know, and even when we're talking and, and I'm waiting, you know, when Commissioner Latvall feels a little better, we're going to be talking about kind of our downtown process here and stuff like that. But, you know, we don't have to get rid of all the property all at once. Like there's things like, you know, we have storage facilities, you know, out of the switcher building for all of our court records and things like that. You know, we may want to wait, you know, so it may be doing that in phases or saying that's available, but not for X time to, you know, so there'll be a lot that we'll learn over this next year and begin to kind of put the plan together of how this is going to roll out. Just my last question would be along those lines, Barry, on the disposition of property and the vision that the city of Clearwater has for their downtown as it relates to, you know, businesses, buildings for businesses, because clearly downtown has a, has a decent start on that, but we want to make, I mean, presumably that's coming from the city of Clearwater that, that they share that same concept that they want that expanded area of possibilities for the business community. So this team has met with the mayor and all city council members. They've, we've met with the city manager. We're, we know what their vision is of downtown. They know, we know that this is a good mixed use facility, you know, and, you know, all you have to do is go to, you know, our end of the, of, of, of the building and look at the views and know that that should be a million dollar condo, you know, but other ancillary type uses. One of the things I think was important that we learned in this process is we have some general ideas and we know how to make sure that we, we set it up to where we get the use that we want, you know, at the end of the day. And so we're taking that to account. However, also making sure that we get private sector to come in and tell us what their vision would be. It may be a bigger, broader vision. And so we can kind of learn from that and make decisions. And so that process will be interrupative to where we can account for both. And then my last question, probably you've already answered it, but I've forgotten from the last meeting, but that's the, the old courthouse building. And that obviously will be bifurcated from the rest of the property as we sell it. I'm assuming that's going to be maintained and we're going to have to, we're, we're looking for use and we're working with the, with the, the courts on that obviously for a reuse and repurposing. And so that'll be an interesting piece that we'll have to kind of account for that. We're not sure what that ends up looking like community center, um, you know, something different. I don't know. Um, but, but there are other places that have, that have went through something like that and integrated it into a larger development. So it'll be, it'll be interesting. And I even asked a question, what is the original courthouse structure? We have additions to that. So is it, is it everything or is it just piece of it? You know, I don't know the answer to that. That will be a challenging piece to me. It clearly is can't pick that one up and move it. So, um, all right. Well, thank you all. Appreciate your, and if I could, the council was very engaged and they are very excited and they are very grateful to you to allow them to speak into this about their vision. And quite simply, they just want to activate downtown. They want more activity, residents, businesses. Um, so we were, we were pleased and they've given us, I think, enough to be able to, uh, inform this RFP that we'll put out. And then like Barry said, and I think, Leanne, you've said this before, when those responses come back, if you leave enough flexibility in there, it's like Christmas. I mean, there are different concepts, you know, and so we're excited about that coming forward. Yes. Thank you, chair. Um, just a couple observations. I, I do have some concerns with the, with the word, the location of the parking lot for access and for, for egress. It just, we're running everybody across the site to get into a loaded structure. So, uh, I think that concern is valid. Uh, I haven't seen any architectural. I don't know if I missed that, but I'd kind of like to see, uh, like commissioner Wicke, uh, maybe some kind of Greek Roman architecture represents Western civilization. I think that would be a nice touch. It doesn't, we don't have to buy marble, but it could look that way. Um, we'll bring you, how about we bring your choices in the budget that goes along with it? I like that. I want it. Yeah. You know, I think it would just, it's our government center. Um, number three would be the downtown. And I've spoken to many people about this, uh, on the downtown properties. I think this is our chance to help the city maintain its vision for downtown. And I just want to, for those of you haven't heard this from me, I really believe that we should look at rather than selling pieces of parcels. We should sell long-term leases for the properties that we own downtown 99 year leases, 75 year leases. If you have a lease on a piece of property, you can continue to control the use that's operating on the property. Just like a, just like a, a mall. If you lease a cookie shop in a mall and you're not open on time, if you're not open at certain times when you're required to be open and closed, when you're required to be closed, you lose your lease. And we can raise a lot of money for our new center with long-term leases, but we can also maintain control of the uses, uh, of the properties that we have downtown. And I think that would be a great assist for the camp, the city and it's master planning. So I think that should be considered. Anyway, I just wanted to bring it up because it's a, it's a different option. Once you sell the property, you've lost control of the downtown, at least the County has, but maybe the city buys it and they do their own thing. I'm just, I'm just putting it out there and certainly when it comes to the financing on the building and what we're going to be bonding and what we're going to be using from a capital standpoint. Again, I'm, I'm a firm believer that this facility is an intergenerational facility and that nobody in today's world should be paying over a bigger share of that project than the next generation of folks. Cause this is going to be a 50, 60, 70 year old building. Um, um, and so, you know, so to your point though, about renting out versus, you know, renting it controls the use of the property. Number one, number two, you don't get as much money as you, as if you sell it, but if we're bonding it over time, do we want a lot of money down payment? I just, a lot of different things on that financing side will be interesting to take a look at financing versus control of the property to make sure that Clearwater's vision is maybe, and maybe we step it, you know, we control it till we sell it or we control it till you get a tenant that ends up wanting to buy it. And there may be phases like that. So yeah, I think it's a good idea to take a look at just for, for a number of reasons. Well, I think the, the rare opportunity that's presenting itself as having this much acreage come on the market all at the same time in a, in a structured process like this. So there's any number of ways to do it. And we've got some more time to, to discuss that for sure. All right. A quick question. If I heard you right, did you say that, um, you're going to bring, be bringing us the guaranteed cost by 27? Yes. The beginning of 27 is the current projection on that. And we do have Ajax is at the table with us. So we expect there to be a very good coordination on the backend. Looking at the timeline, it looked, unless I'm reading it wrong, it looks like construction starting in Q3 of 26. And then that, that goes back to what, uh, commissioner Eggers was talking that, that covers maybe some site, uh, demolition, some infrastructure going in early, uh, but it won't. Um, and that, so we may have two different packages and we can talk about that more, but the, the building will occur in earnest in 27 construction. Thank you very much. Just a comment. Um, commissioner share. I thank you for thinking outside the box, looking at longevity, um, potentially something that could bring revenue into the County beyond, you know, the time. Um, I just, and you're a, you know, you're in the business, so I don't know. Um, but I was just thinking for, we would potentially be required to handle the maintenance and upkeep because we are quote unquote, the landlords. It could possibly be written into a contract that certain, you know, things be handled by whomever we would lease the property to, but usually it's the landlord owner. Um, the other thing I would have to think a lot about is when County governments are seeking funds for construction, development, expansion, or whatever, those lending institutions want to make sure that you own the property, there were issues with the city of not issues, but the city of St. Pete and, um, an entity, the, um, that wanted to do some upgrades and renovations to a building that the city owns, but they weren't able to get the funding because they didn't own the building. Um, I'm talking about the Florida orchestra that wanted to do some upgrades and whatnot with the Mahaffey, but because they don't own the building, they weren't able to secure the finances by which to do that. So I'm not sure if let's say the city of Clearwater would be able to, if it were them that got the property, if they would be able to work out the financing piece to do whatever they needed or wanted to do because they don't technically own the building. So then the question would be, would we be willing to, you know, go out for that? Um, so I'm just thinking out loud. I'm just, you know, thinking about how it could possibly work. It is a, uh, something to think about, but, and then I guess the other thing is, um, I think our conversations, not that they can't change, have been utilizing the financial remuneration to kind of offset the costs for this building, for this building, um, so that we would be potentially borrowing far less money, um, for our end. Um, so anyway, just, I'm just talking out loud. Yeah. We can put, we can put those in. You'll see in the, when we get to. But I appreciate commissioner. I appreciate, you know, because I had not even thought about that. That would be a way to have long-term financial remuneration coming in for whatever, going to the general fund or something like that or whatever. I don't know, but those are the things that I will be thinking about if that were to, to materialize into a more structured conversation. Well, I will say this, that I do think that, um, the type of lease you do and, and when that becomes a purchase, it becomes a purchase, but you can do triple net leases so that the tenants just does all the expenses on the building. You can set it up that way. You can set it up over time where there's a, you know, a necessary takedown of the purchase of the property. Um, so there's a number of ways to structure it. Um, I'm not, you know, we've always said that we try to be low debt here in the County and, you know, to the extent that you can get borrow money reasonably and spread it out over generations to pay for this building, I think is something that we have to keep in mind because, um, I do not want to overtax our folks today. I don't want to overtax our people, you know, the next five to 10 years. This building is a, it's going to be an institutional building for decades. Um, and it should be shared, um, and not overburdened on folks today. So I'm, I'll be looking for that forward to that conversation. And you'll, you'll see that when we get to fall studies and one of those is to come up with financing alternatives for this project, right? And so we can look at that and present those ideas and thoughts and pro formas for your consideration that can be part of it. When we get to our, um, floor, I guess, then we would have the opportunity to have some input into how it'll look. Yeah, you'll get, when we get into more detailed design, you'll see that. Um, we're just, you know, kind of doing that high level. Um, but you'll, you'll see designs and you'll have them put into that same way. We're going to have all the departments and constitutionals and everybody else pointing authorities, given, you know, their input. They're trying to, right now, they're trying to say, all right, who, who kind of belongs together? So, you know, the commissioners, administration, office of management and budget and communication. Okay, great. Well then down here, it should be X and Y and, you know, what are the adjacencies? And then they can kind of stack and see what the, the floor, you know, the footprints are for the various ones to see how does that work within an efficient building? Yeah. I'm just, I'm hopeful that we'll be able to, and this is just me, we, you know, we have several other opinions around the table, but we will be able to kind of keep the construct the way that we have it. Our assistant or our aid or whatever is within our office. Oh yeah. So that, you know, so anyway, that would be my main request. Yeah. The office sharing, don't put me down with Latvala. No, I'm kidding. Chris, I'm putting him right next to you. We're going to, we're going to have to have a mock-up with that just, uh, for, for discussion. I'm teasing, Chris. All right. Thank you. I want our office right next to Eggers. You got it. I appreciate the team traveling to be here today and thank you for your time. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks everybody. Yeah. Good, good discussion. Good discussion, guys. All right. Uh, so now we're moving on to fireworks. Let's blow some stuff up. So, um, real fireworks. So, so commissioner, so commissioner Nowicki brought this up earlier this year, um, about looking at our firework regulations and, and why it's different than some of our, our peers. Well, we really don't know, um, cause none of us were here at the time when they made those changes. So we asked staff to go back and kind of look at that. And so we're introducing the topic today, no decision. We don't have a recommendation necessarily. Um, but it was new and it was different. And so we've asked you to come in and, and look at this. We also have chief here, um, because there's a fire component side to this where, you know, it's, it's kind of protecting that side. So, um, I asked if he would join us and we'll let Jude get into his presentation. Morning, Jude. Fantastic. Good morning, commissioners, chairman. Thank you for having me. Um, most of you guys know me. I'm Jude Reason, Pinellas County housing official. I oversee the code enforcement division. And as Barry said, a little while back, we were tasked with taking a look at Pinellas County's fireworks ordinance versus some of our neighboring counties. We'll go ahead and dive right in. Uh, first and foremost, uh, these, sorry, jumped there for a second. I apologize. Uh, state regulation chapter 791, Florida state statute is what governs fireworks for the entire state. They have some general expectations and a few exemptions. Uh, the exemptions are mostly sparkle, sparklers, novelties, little fireworks. They don't really care about those. And when we're igniting them agricultural use, um, as well as three designated holidays, new year's day, independence day, new year's eve. Local authorities, specifically here also in Pinellas County allows local governments to adopt and enforce stricter rules and local governments cannot weaken the state exemptions. For example, the pro prohibiting on the three designated holidays here in Pinellas County, chapter 62, article four is our governing authority. Uh, Pinellas County fire authority and the fire control districts are who manage that, that chapter. Um, we have more restrictive rules than the state. We're actually of the three counties and we'll get into that in a bit. We have the most, uh, the most amount of restrictions versus our, our neighboring counties, Pasco and Hillsborough. Um, we require permits, uh, to display fireworks at any time pursuant to our ordinance. So again, we're more restrictive than the three state holidays, um, and the holiday exemptions. And we'll, we'll talk about how that, that gets managed here in a minute. Uh, we also, uh, permit the temporary sales and storage of structures requiring building permits. So our building department requires permits tents. So you've seen the tents around the County that sell fireworks around the holiday season. Our building department permits those, and they also work with the local fire district regarding the sales and distribution. Um, so fire districts also permit included, and they have to have proof of, uh, storage controls, record keeping, um, and general safety guidelines. This applies countywide unless other municipalities have adopted their own rules. And here in Pinellas County, all but three that we are aware of, um, have adopted their own rules. So Florida state law versus Pinellas County, uh, a couple of, a couple of different variants here. Um, for the most part, the state allows exemptions, July 4th, New Year's Eve and New Year's day. Uh, Pinellas County requires a permit for anyone to ignite a firework on any of those days, uh, which is, is not something that's currently happening in the County. There are no permits that are issued to the general public for igniting fireworks on these holidays. So that's one of the biggest differences between Pinellas County and the state law. Um, there's, uh, no blanket exemptions here in Pinellas County for permit requirements. Um, and we're also bound to the state based on retail fireworks facilities. So again, we don't have any, so here in Pinellas County, we don't have any brick and mortar, uh, retail Hillsborough does. We don't, we do have, uh, tents permitted by building and over seeing by the fire to fire departments. Uh, also HOAs are not allowed to be any more restrictive than the state. And, uh, our ordinances don't affect basically the HOAs in any way. So the HOAs can't say that you can't light a firework when in fact that you can. Um, so again, state says you can, HOAs can't exempt those. Jude, quick question. This is for unincorporated Pinellas County. And you said, so 21 municipalities have enacted their own. Correct. Yep. They have their, have their own ordinances, which are generally very similar to ours. Um, one of the things that we're seeing kind of across the board is that none of them are really enforcing the permitting requirements if they have them and, or detonating fireworks on the holidays. So we're not really, we're not really seeing that also about 50% of them have the holiday exemption and the other 50% don't roughly give or take about 50%, uh, which in the state says you can have them on the three holidays, about 50% of our own municipalities say you can't, we say you can't, and that does contradict state law. So it's going to be further in further into the presentation here. We're going to talk about some of the recommendations, uh, which would again, to bring us in alignment with state law. So if somebody, I don't know, wanted to do a fireworks display on November 1st, for whatever reason, we would say no, because it's not one of those three holidays. Correct. Correct. We would say no. There is some permitting that is allowed through, you know, like the ball fields and stuff that have fireworks presentations outside of, outside of the regular holidays that can be permitted. Um, it's not done through, through co-enforcement, but the fire districts do have, uh, the ability to, to permit and regulate those. So, and I don't know if they still do it, but it used to be, um, and I could see Clearwater Beach doing this too, but the hotels used to offer for weddings, fireworks. So it was not uncommon for the trade winds every weekend to have fireworks every weekend when they had a wedding. Um, and so as the County has grown and we have hotels everywhere, um, and wedding venues, would that be, that then is excluded. So if they're having a wedding, um, at let's say Fort DeSoto Park, and they wanted to light off fireworks at the end of the ceremony or evening, we would not allow that unless it was a holiday. Only during the holidays by, by state standards, um, that there is a permitting process for special events here locally in the County. And so they could be permitted to do that. Um, but again, that's going to be something that they're going to work out with fire control districts. Um, but the state generally prohibits fireworks outside of anything other than a designated three holidays. So when there are fireworks at a stadium in Dunedin stadium, they go to the city there to get a permit to have fireworks that contradicts state law. So the, the state law exempts with the exception of permitting through, through the local, local jurisdiction. So yes, they, they can get permits to do it, but your general population are not supposed to be igniting fireworks other than the three, three holidays. So there are, there are exceptions where you can have permits for large events, um, you know, that are, that are sponsored government sponsored, or, you know, whether it be private vendor sponsored, but they do have to have a permit through fire control for that. Any other questions before we move on? Okay. All right. So use of fireworks in Pinellas County, uh, Pinellas County is section 6299. Again, requires a permit for any person to explode, uh, fireworks. And this does contradict chapter 791 of Florida state statute, which exempts permits on the three designated holidays. So you can have permits outside of those holidays, but on the three holidays, anybody can light a firework statewide. Um, there is another contradiction with Pinellas County noise ordinance. Um, so in section 58, 445, which you're pretty familiar with, we just recently did, uh, some noise ordinance updates. Uh, the use of fireworks is not, uh, presumed unreasonably loud and ruckus as long as it occurs on July 4th or December 31st or within 24 hours of those dates. Uh, this is constrained by, uh, 6299, which requires a permit for those specific dates. So there's some of the contradiction. We have two ordinances, both internal ordinances that do contradict each other that require a little bit of cleaning up. Um, and again, we'll get into the recommendations, um, as we near the slides here. So we have, we've asked for a tri-county comparison. Generally, Pinellas County is more restrictive than both Pasco and Hillsborough. Uh, Hillsborough does have some brick and mortar, so they do authorize year round sales and they have some different types of oversight because of that. But in terms of, of igniting fireworks, Pinellas County again requires a permit for everyone. We know that that's not being, being issued and or enforced. Pasco County allows the use of fireworks, uh, from June 28th to July 5th. Uh, so there is, um, some contradictions there, uh, on state law. They're basically saying you can do it before, um, and you can do it after the 4th of July. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with weather events or anything like that where you're restricted from doing it specifically on the 4th. You may have seen this year we had a total washout on 4th of July. I know I personally observed a lot of fireworks being ignited after the 4th of July, um, kind of countywide. In fact, I think there was even some large displays that were done on the 5th in lieu of the 4th. So Pasco does have some wiggle room for that, but it does contradict state law. Um, and again, public displays, but Pasco only requires a permit for Newport Ritchie and, uh, and, and Port Ritchie. Um, other than that, they, they don't have any, they don't authorize any other public displays around Pasco County. Um, and again, they all have the same formal, um, insurance requirements for sales and distribution, just like Pinellas and our, our restrictions are more so, uh, to the, to the actual permitting of, of specific people. I mean, sorry, of, uh, of your private citizens. So some of the considerations, first and foremost, if we are going to go any further or if you guys would like to make any changes, there, there's a, there's quite a bit that went into our original ordinance. I have been working with the county attorney's office, uh, which provided me with lots of files on how we got to where we are, uh, lots of, uh, lots of cases and lawsuits and so forth that got us to where we currently are today. So there's going to be a considerable amount of research that would go into that based on your direction. Uh, we also would recommend getting to, uh, together with our local fire officials to make sure that we're all in alignment, um, who have already offered a little bit of feedback on some of the things they would like to see if we are going to move forward with any potential changes. One of them would be, uh, an educational campaign at the point of sales for safety. Um, and something to bear in mind too, if there is any direction to make any changes, we are unable to change, uh, for example, Florida building code, which requires, is requires permits for the tents to be erected and for the sales. Uh, and then the national fire protection, um, act, which doesn't, which has a lot of limitations as well in regards to, uh, sales and storage. Um, so our, our immediate recommendations would be to, to update some of our definitions, make sure that, and make sure that we align with the state holidays. We also would recommend that we, uh, remove the contradictions between 6299 and 58445, which is that noise ordinance, which would line up exactly with the state statute of allowing folks to detonate fireworks without permits on the designated holidays as the state requires and doesn't really allow us to make those modifications anyhow. So generally the, the recommendation is to bring our ordinance in line with state statute and to, uh, also to remove, um, any permit requirements for private residents during those, during those designated holidays. Any questions? So, uh, so if, um, somebody goes down to the, you know, the tent there and buys a whole bunch of fireworks, technically they need to get a permit to shoot those off? Um, technically in Pinellas County. Yes. And how many permits do, how many permits do we issue on those a year? We don't, we don't currently issue permits for that. Um, and it's also important to remember too, that the sheriff's department is the other designated authority by its, by state statute, um, and by ordinance on enforcing some of these rules coupled with the local fire districts. Um, and in my consultation with the sheriff's department, they are not enforcing, um, enforcing those permitting requirements and anything outside of the holidays. They will respond to calls, but generally on 4th of July, unless there's a safety issue, they're not generally responding to people lighting off fireworks in Pinellas County. Do we have any, uh, any time restrictions or time limits for the, for the sale of fireworks in Pinellas County, or could somebody set up a tent and just leave it up there all year long and sell fireworks or? That's a fantastic question. I believe we do have a, uh, we do have a time period and I, I apologize. I think it's in my white paper draft, but I don't know it off the top of my head. So I can get back to you on that one. And is that consistent? Whatever we do, do you know if it's consistent with state or not? I'm not sure if it's totally consistent with the state right now. I, I, again, I apologize. I should have that answer, but I don't, um, fire chief may know chief Graham, are you aware of the dates on those? I will get that to you. Yeah. Just about simplifying, I think, and being in line with the state makes sense. I mean, we don't enforce those three, or is it two or three dates anyway? People are doing them all over the place. Uh, poor animals. That's the only one I feel bad for, but you know, at the end of the day, it's those three days that we, is it three, right? Yes. The three holidays, New Year's Eve, 4th of July and New Year's day. So I think more, the more we're in line with the state on that, I think the better, uh, less confusing, less worry from permitting or be doing things legally or ill, and it's not, but technically they are. So I'd like to clean that up, make it simpler and easier, but I totally agree with whatever we do. I think an educational campaign doesn't hurt kind of, probably a good refresher, whatever we decide to do on the educational front, but, uh, whether it's on the new rules or regs, but also how, maybe a how-to, because I, I'd probably blow my hand off of doing it, but yeah, I wouldn't be doing it, but anyway. Um, so yeah, I would lean in that direction, simplify and, and be in line with the state. Certainly. Any other question? Thank you, Chair. Yeah. Um, also the sales and storage. I mean, I think we're like the most restrictive, I think in the state, really, um, not just the Tampa Bay area, but I think in the state, we're like the most restrictive for the sales of fireworks, like four year record retention. I mean, just, um, really limiting the free market to come in and, and sell a good. Um, and so then people have to drive across the bridge to go and buy fireworks. So if we can really, you know, make it easier for businesses to do business in Pinellas County, I mean, I've heard that talked about, you know, at the dais a lot that, you know, we want to encourage businesses to open here in Pinellas County. And I think the sale requirements are very restrictive in the, and the most restrictive in the state. And so if we could look at that more and opening it up like Pasco and Hillsborough, I think Hillsborough has no structured retail oversight whatsoever. Um, so, you know, I'd be in favor for that. So there, there are a couple of limitations on how many people can sell them within Pinellas County. There was a, there was some dates back in 2006, I said, a limited amount of folks can actually get the permits here in the County. Um, so we would have to take a deeper dive into that. You know, again, the County Attorney's Office offered me an entire box of files on how we got to where we are today. So that would take, um, some research, which we can absolutely look into. This was really kind of an overarching, um, you know, administrative dive into how we compare. Um, and now that's exactly what we're seeking is, is some direction on, on where you want to pinpoint that and what kind of changes you, you would like for us to look into and possibly make. Um, and then we do have, the state does, um, does not allow for us to have any brick and mortar here in the County. Um, so that's one, that's one area based on my research. Sorry. Does not allow brick and mortar? Does, does not allow. Hillsborough has them, but we, we, from my, my research, we wouldn't be allowed to have any more brick and mortar. I believe they're limited on the whole state on where everything, basically if they already exist, they exist and no more, no more. They were grandfathered in. Correct. Correct. That's based on my research. Again, if you know, we can take a real deep dive into that and, and determine whether or not there are any exemptions there. Anything else? All right. You're off the hook, dude. Okay. Thank you very much for your time. All right. All right. Now we're going to move on to fall studies. I'm passing out. Michelle's helping me pass out what we, what I sent out to you. Michelle's supposed to be passing those out to them, not to staff. Yeah. I, I, I gave this side of the room. I was asking her to do the other side. We had a miscommunication. Um, so the idea was that we, um, let's, let's zero in on the things that you want us to look at. Um, and, and then have those discussions early in the budget process rather than in June, July, you know, or August. Um, and these are the things that were brought up, uh, during, during the meetings I want to go through, but I also asked for a list from commissioners. And so we've kind of outlined those. We can discuss any of them you want. We can get, you can give us better direction of what you're looking for. Some of those have cost implications. Do you all agree with that? You know, or are there things you say, no, I really don't want to go down a path where, you know, we're opening up, you know, and, and talking about that. That's where I need to get your feedback as a collective body, um, on any of the particular things that we're talking about. Um, so commissioner Eggers, you know, brought up the idea of AmSkills and whether there's a role, uh, for us in funding that could be a, that would be a decision package, um, obviously because it'd be a new funding source. We have two current funding sources for job training, separate out AmSkills from that. We have CareerSource, you have all your federal funds and those competitive funds and people apply for those. Um, and so AmSkills to my knowledge has not, um, taken advantage of applying for those funds from my discount, my conversations with CareerSource. Um, but they would be eligible to apply for that? They would be eligible. Um, but again, they're federal funds, so you have limitations and requirements for accessing those funds. But I did discuss with the previous executive director, um, of CareerSource and he said they had, they had not applied for funding. Okay. Um, we also have the science center, the sale of the science center, and we created that job training program. And so that's a current competitive, um, job training program. So those are the only two funding sources we have. So if you're, if the, so the question is, are you looking for us to use general fund dollars to create a job training program? And that's something we could do. It obviously would have a budgetary impact. And I certainly, I certainly don't want to, you know, utilize taxpayer dollars on this if we can help it, because if there are other sources of funding, again, Barry, this is something that we should be talking to them about. And if we're not talking to them about it, and they're not doing it, then we don't need to hear from them again. Um, but they provide distinct training for areas that we need help in. And if CareerSource does it, or this, uh, if they're doing it again, I think that discussion needs to be had here so that we know what's being covered, what's being done in our, in our training areas and each of these opportunities. So to me, I was basically educated in the idea that they have unique skill sets that they develop that aren't available in other areas. If that's not the case, okay. If they have funding sources there that are available to them and they're not taking advantage, okay. Um, but I just want to make sure that, I mean, they have been extremely successful in Pasco County, uh, and Pasco County went all in on it. And at Lowellman. What's that? And at Lowellman. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, they're also at the Lowellman exchange. So again, I'd like to make sure that we explore those opportunities. So, so you're, you're looking for a connection, making sure that they understand the CareerSource opportunities and the Science Center funding. Yeah, exactly. And if you don't mind on the CareerSource side, um, sadly enough, um, the funds that we receive in this particular area are split 70-30. 70% of our funding goes to Hillsborough County. Only 30% comes to us. So we, unfortunately, on this side of the bay, depend on groups like AmSkills because we don't receive currently adequate funding to be able to provide the services. Um, I have my one-on-ones with the executive director over there. We just talked about this this week. Um, and so I'll be presenting an item, um, for consideration for us to, uh, try to address this funding split to make it 50-50. The split is based on population. So yes, Hillsborough County has a greater population than we do. But if you look at economic opportunities and service provisions, it's not a 70-30. It should be, in my opinion, a 50-50 or at least a 60-40. So, um, we, we provide services, but nowhere to the level that we should or would be able to, because we don't have the money, but we depend on AmSkills. Yeah. Um, to do it. So I'm just sharing this information. I mean, that's a great, for, for additional. And I do agree with the 60% seems to be more in line with population. Yeah. So, um, I, I have had this discussion, like I said, just this week with the executive director there. And, um, we'll, we'll, you know, we can't say it'll get changed. The funding allocation will get changed, but we're asking for it to be changed. So CareerSource does not have additional funding available for the AmSkills. We only get the 30%, and that has to spread out across all programs. Right. So it doesn't, it doesn't flow right into what AmSkills does. Okay. And then AmSkills is another venue that Pinellas Technical College utilizes for those individuals who are going through the technical trade component pieces. So it does have its value, extreme value. But I just wanted to share, um, with CareerSource where we, that's why we can't, but we don't have it right now. Yeah. And, and, and again, I think it's also important that we see what the model that Pasco is doing, and with respect to CareerSource, and I, and I'm trying, not trying to reinvent the wheel here. I, I'm trying to make sure that we're maximizing the use of these skills development groups that we have for some of our, you know, it's called underemployment, right? We're trying to get people employed up and make more money in their, in their ventures in life. And these are the places they can get the skill sets. They can. In Pasco, they do spend general fund dollars, uh, to help support that. Okay. And that's, and, but I, and I only put that out because that's the type of direction I need, you know, from this body. Do you want, do you want us to create a program like that to bring DAC to you as part of the budget? But then that competes for, you know, everything else that we're going to go for. They, they, they do that there. We have CareerSource. They have job training. They're part of a larger job training. Uh, uh, the CareerSource there is a multi-county, uh, northern, uh, center. I don't know whether they've competed for those funds or not. Um, we, the other one that we do have is the Science Center, um, funding. And that's through, um, Dr. Johnson and, uh, our ED. And they're creating that program. They briefed you on that a while back. That is another local job training. And we can make, so if it's a connection we're looking for with them on existing funds, we can certainly make that connection. If it's an expansion, well then that's something we have to build into the budget. Well, again, are we providing what our residents need? To me, that's the question. And if we are, then it's just about connection. Well, I don't know that I, I know that. I mean, I, you know, there's obviously a need for what they're doing. Well, we're having the one Pinellas group that gets our schools and our technical colleges and our businesses together. Yes. There seems to be a shortfall of skill sets that are being developed at the local level for our businesses. So, and that's, and you're, you're correct. And that's, we, and we got the, our businesses gave us the guidelines for the science, for the economic development program. And so they're, they're massaging that program to roll that out, you know, as we speak. And that is one opportunity. There's always probably going to be an unmet need. There's a lot of, I agree with you. I mean, that type of skill set, um, is, there's a huge need for that. And there's probably, regardless of what you put into it, there's still probably going to be a gap. Um, but I don't know what that gap is versus the amount of training dollars are available because like for a career source, they haven't applied for them. So I'm not saying it's a bad or good, they may not have. Well, maybe they've heard the same thing that she just shared that we don't have any money right to give. So we, and so we, we didn't, we didn't bother. I don't know the answer to that, but we can, we can reach out. I just like to explore to make sure that we're doing what we can to provide opportunities for our employees, our residents to upgrade their skill sets for job opportunities that are out there. Okay. Yeah. I keep hearing that folks are having, companies are having talent issues. They're trying to find people that are skilled up. We had that one example over that said that we had, what, a hundred applications. They narrowed it down to 30 because they just didn't have the skill sets. And then none of those 30 even showed up for interviews. So that's a different issue, but I just want to make sure that we're providing. So the, so the study would be, I'm trying to get back to that. The study is what's the gap? Let's identify that, what type of opportunities are available? And so we'll, I'll ask Dr. Johnson to kind of lead that and we can have that ready for the spring. And then you can decide what you, you know, what you do with that. Yeah. What, what funds, how does CareerSource get funded? How to, you know, our science center, or I say it's a science center, it's an economic, it's an ED job training program, what that looks like. And then what's the connection between those availability of services to our residents? Yeah. Okay. Like, hello, just everybody out there. We need, there's a lot of noise that goes across people's, you know. This gives me an idea of where you're, where you're going. Not necessarily a funding piece, but trying to identify and identify the gap and the avail and what opportunities are currently available to fill that gap. Absolutely. That's exactly where it is. And if it means funding, if for some reason we'll get to that point later, but I just, I, I just think there is a big gap there. And that was really the kind of the impetus behind that one. We put commissioners Eggers first on all these. So we'll knock his out first. It was just, that's how they came out on the list. The second one is he asked us to look at the Palm Harbor community service agencies, whether they're, they could fall under the county's health benefits, and then separately, whether the four independent fire districts could fall under our county health benefits. They would have to pay for that. They would have to be county employees. They are not currently county employees, and there would have to be a completely different structure. We've done some initial work into this, but again, I want to, is there a consensus to look at that? It would be very involved because they're, they're currently, the way they're structured as, is as a independent nonprofit, you know, agency. So there'd have to be structural changes to that. And there would be a cost associated. They'd have to pay the full cost associated with that. And I think, I think there was some discussion about if it deviates too far in the cost, they may have to go back to the folks that voted on their, their millage, because they voted on their millage to provide services. I don't know all of that. And that may, I may or may not come from that. Clearly, the residents of Palm Harbor and East Lake have said they want, they want this additional millage for those services. Now, I mean, what we're, what we're talking about, what I'm talking about is making sure that the services that they're asking for are being delivered and, and that's all. So I just want to make sure that, again, I'm not, this isn't something that we're talking about. We're just talking about them having an outlet to have more stable workforce to provide the services that our residents want, the residents in Palm Harbor and the residents in East Lake. We'd be happy to do the study if there's consensus to do that. Yeah. Yeah. And, and just to kind of frame it up a little bit more, I want to be very clear, the, the fix this situation and the independent special fire districts are wildly different situations that both entail very different allocations of risk and management of risk as far and, and as far as how the benefits apply to them, the fire, the fire particularly have completely different risk profiles as you can imagine. Yeah. Um, and the costs are very different and you, you hit the nail on the head. The millages that are set up for the independent special fire districts, they're inclusive. It is included in the package of providing fire service, all the providing firefighters, providing their benefits, providing their salaries, all of those that's rolled into that millage. And that's what that millage is dedicated for. So it is very complicated. As far as fixa, that's a structure that you guys have set up through basically MSTUs that have been structured. And then you've set up, these are not for profits that are intentionally were created separate from the county to create a barrier of liability and all kinds of other practical issues that are set up for that reason. And, and to Barry's point, that structurally would be, have to be completely re-looked at. Can it be? Yes. But be very careful about thinking through all the pieces. I'm assuming on that, that part that you're talking about, the barrier to protect liability comes from the recreation services, uh, because certainly libraries, people trip and fall in libraries. Well, they trip and fall in any of our buildings. So we're just talking about additional buildings and additional. Well, or someone leaving a book, you know, a rack of books where they shouldn't or, or, or, or. All right. Well, I'm not, I'm not going to get into those kinds of liabilities because we have that all over the place. So we have people that walk in here, you know, in our building. So yeah, books on the floor that somebody trips over. I get it. And it's, it's a policy matter. All of it's a policy matter, commissioner. It's just a function of understanding all the, the strings that get pulled is all I was bringing up. Yeah. Well, I know we've not ever wanted to be in recreation, but that's for a different reasons. Uh, but certainly needs to be looked at for sure. So part of the reason for doing this like this is commissioner Eggers, you say you want us to look at it. We're fine. We'll do that report. We'll bring that back to the commission. I want to make sure there's consensus because we've got more things to look at than we have time for. Right. Well, what we're doing here though, is going through each one and it's at some point, we'll have to kind of take a look at which ones we want to focus on. Right. Well, that's what I'm trying to get direction. If you're in agreement, we'll do these. And I just want you, you've said you want to do that. I'm a hundred percent. Okay. With doing that. I'm asking, is there consensus from the commission to move forward? How do you want us to rate it one through five so that we can come back at the end of it and say that was a three? No, seriously. I'm not, I don't know the answer. I'm kind of going through them one by one. We could come back at the end and do that. That's kind of what I think it'd be a little better. Otherwise, otherwise I want to start with county administrations first, you know? Well, these are, I'm teasing. Yeah. You can cut mine out. Yeah. Okay. I'm kidding. But you know, I think the point is where at some point it's going to be relative. Yeah. I, I understand. So that's all. So I, I was reading through this list yesterday and trying to figure out how do we rank these or qualify these or whatever. And I was kind of going through in, in thinking about a difficulty factor and then a, like a cost benefit factor. Yeah. Right. If it's really difficult, then we rate that, we score that, you know, 10 is most difficult, right? And one is easy. You know, maybe we rank it that way. And then if it's cost benefit analysis, if this could really save us some money, well, then maybe that's even the most difficult might be worth it. Right. So to me, that's like, if I agree with you, if these are difficult to do, then tell us this is going to be really, really hard to do. And then, or any of these, when the cost benefits, not that great, then let's forget, let's drop that one down. Right. Right. But if it's high. Right. So yeah. And, and, and you as individual commissioners may rank those differently, right? So Commissioner Eggers may say, this is really important for this agency. From our perspective, it's very difficult and we get no cost benefit. Right. You know, but he may say, from an agency standpoint, it's real important. Right. So you may look at it differently. And that's the reason, the importance of this dialogue. You mean, Commissioner Scheer might not agree exactly with my priority? Probably not. Probably not. Probably Commissioner Latvala wouldn't agree, but, you know, I would say that of all your priorities, number three would be my number one. So if you need help with that. Yeah. So on the MSTU, the county said, review the MSTU unincorporated budget and present it to the commissioner. And then Commissioner Latvala has two very specific ones on MSTU. So, um, I, I think that's worthy of looking at. I think he's got a valid, valid point. Um, you guys under county administration, you, you have it listed on the last page, a third from the bottom. Um, I don't think on the last, but you were going to review it, the unincorporated budget presented to commissioners. So I don't know if it's the same thing, but I think you get out of what Commissioner Latvala was looking for. If you do that comprehensively, we can probably combine what, what Commissioner Latvala was looking at and what, and, and that item that I put on was really what you brought up commissioner about looking at our MSTU for unincorporated. Yes. Cause I, I, I do believe that I, you know, it was a great exercise with Tara Verde and Audrey did an outstanding job on that presentation. Um, and amazingly the questions never really strayed from the landscaping on, on the main boulevard, but, um, I, I learned a lot in that process and she did a really thorough, great job to help me understand that. But, um, the reason I wanted the MSTUs looked at just in general is because we've looked at the general fund every year and we've reduced the general fund, but the MSTU that we charge the unincorporated is no different than what the cities charge to be a city, an unincorporated city. And we've never looked at that. We've never looked at that. And, and you know, that MSTU has generated significantly more money as property values increased and we never looked at reining that in like we did the general fund. And so it's no different than a city not reining in theirs. And so that's why I wanted to look at that. But I think when you, when you look at that total MSTU process, you also narrow in on what Commissioner Latvell is looking at in the process, I think it naturally lends itself to address those. So I, I, I would put that pretty high because I can tell you right now, that's where I think we find more, um, reductions. Maybe, maybe we have tapped out what we could do in the general fund. I don't know. It depends on what property values do. We took a, a loss in property value this year. I don't know what next year is going to bring. Um, thankfully we haven't had any storms to, you know, make a big hit on that. Um, but that's one area where I've criticized the cities for not reducing the millage rate. And we've done the same thing to the unincorporated. And it, I, you know, it didn't, I hadn't, it didn't occur to me until this last year. So I think that's an important. So you got, you got two things that you're talking about here. One is the, the county's MSTU for unincorporated area. Separately, I think Commissioner Latvell, and I won't speak for him, he's on, but, um, is looking at all the MSTUs. So we have MSTUs, you know, for, and then the $20,000 that we give out and whether that's inside, I think his was a broader one on all the different MSTUs. I think you do them all. Yeah. So we look at them all unincorporated, just one of them. Right. Because I think, don't the other MSTUs bring us budgets annually? And we, they do, they do, but we don't really do a deep dive. I don't go out and look at efficiency of what they're doing, spending the money on. Yeah. I mean, when you look at Feather Sound, it's high, it's really high. And those property values have gone up really. And it's really high. I don't know what they do with that money, but it's high. So, and that's a question. I mean, and I can show up to Feather Sound and you're going to get the call. So do you want me to show up Feather Sound or not? Like, you know, that's part of the guidance I'd like from you on what, what do you want us to do with these things? Yeah. Get more information or, or look at whether they're being efficient. There's a different level of study. Can I ask a question on that front? The, the, do the MSTUs that we're talking about, like, because there's a piece that's spread out over all of the unincorporated area. So MSTUs and every area is the same, except there's some add-ons that are specific. Are those, does that, and like in the fixed area, does that include the mills that they have for a library? And is there MSTU, standard MSTU plus a separate? Chris, it's a separate MSTU. So they, so you have unincorporated for all of Palm Harbor, let's just say. Okay. You'll have unincorporated MSTU. That's what we charge for the unincorporated areas that we provide municipal services. On top of that, then they have the library, right? And they have recreation, right? Yes. Okay. So each one has their piece that goes across everyone. That's correct. And then each one has additional stuff that they add on. And I think that to, that was what Commissioner Latvala was asking that we look at is those in addition to are unincorporated. I think we look at all the, everything MSTU, everything. And we ought to take a deep dive into everything MSTU, um, and look for the efficiencies. Cause I, you know, we never hear from Feather Sound. I never get a complaint from Feather Sound, never hear anything from Feather Sound. But if you look at how much money they're collecting, they have the highest, I think one of the highest mills for their MSTU. So no wonder we never hear from them because they're collecting a lot of money. Um, the only thing I got from them was a pickleball court. Right. I didn't even hear about that. And I, you know, I don't know how many residents they have in there, so I don't know how much money they're collecting. Is what they're collecting that mill an appropriate amount for them. Clearly they think it is. They've not come to us for more and they certainly haven't reduced it. Yeah. And Barry, when you do that, could you try, could you let us know how those additional above the base level MSTU, how they were created? Because again, I'm not, I'm, let us take a kind of a first dive into this. I don't think you want us going out and trying to audit, you know, everything that they do and, and whether they are efficient and how they provide front desk counter services at the library or what, you know, whatever. I mean, there's, there's a, so we'll, we'll get some basic information and maybe we'll bring that to you earlier to where then you can ask more questions rather than during the budget process. And then if you want more, then we can get more about that. The deeper dive is into the MSTU front incorporated. Right. And it gets really complicated. And I'll just put that on the table because when you're talking about services, the, the big kahuna in the rooms, the sheriff, right? Okay. And so you got the sheriff providing unincorporated services, you have countywide, you have jail, but then when you get into investigations and specialty units and all those various things, it's kind of how you divide up the pie, you know, because even though, you know, you, you have, uh, and there was a study that was done, I think the last time we did it was in 2009 or 10 around there, you know, and, and, and it really goes to cost of service. It's, it's a big deal and it's really complicated. Um, you know, and so we'll, you know, I think right now we'll, we'll, we'll look at the MSTU. I'll try, we'll try to account for them. We know where the sheriff's costs are, but we haven't done a deep dive because frankly, it's shared services. They work together incredibly well. You know, have, if you've ever seen an incident, even if it's in a municipality, you see the sheriff there, you know, with his command ban and, and other resources because the, and that's the way it should be. They work incredibly well together, but then when you kind of divide up the cost, how do you account for that? Is it countywide? Is it, you know, and, and, and so it, those are the types of details that are harder to get into. Interesting. Yeah. There's definitely, I think a lot of interest in doing that. And just briefly to answer one of your questions with the, with the exception of the fire districts where the unincorporated county is levying a mill to pay the cost of fire service within the unincorporated portions of the fire district associated with a city. I think you're all familiar with those. Those are essentially an MSTU. Other than those, I think every MSTU in the county, other than the unincorporated countywide has been a citizen driven kind of initiative like the, the Seminole rec one was just recently. So just to kind of give you that as a framework, I believe every single one of them. Yeah. That's what I was wanting to make sure we understand that these are, these are resident driven requests. Well, and to your point about looking at them, you know, that's certainly a policy call. And some of these have been in place for a long time. So it might have been residents a long time who asked for this. So, right there is mud. Yes. Well, and I think it covers several of those. We'll lump all the MSTUs together. We'll do a kind of a draft. We'll bring it back to you, get your feedback. If you want additional detail, then we can go back and do more in the spring, not waiting until June when it's, you know, because it becomes too late, to your point. Okay. Um, so the next one is, um, Commissioner Eggers likes us to look at this Estancia Boulevard. Um, so this really gets complicated. Okay. Um, because this is, it's not our road. It's, it's, it's not even really a road. Um, but it's what people have driven on for, you know, decades. Um, but, but it goes to, it goes to the same point where, you know, obviously it falls to us because people have to get home, right? But if we, if we go out and we try to fix it, then it's our, it's ours. And, and, and if we want to take that on, you know, we can take that on. My concern obviously is when we take home private roads, you have a lot of private roads that are currently out there. You've got roads that were platted. They have, they, the, the association has since devolved, dissolved. So you don't have an active homeowners association that fixes the road. We, and people say, well, who's going to fix my road? Well, if we take those on, then we take on that liability. Um, and the, the example that I use is Pasco County put on a special property taxes last year to take on private roads. They recognize if you're going to take it on, you got to have a funding source to maintain it. And, and so that's the only, it's not this road that I'm concerned about. It's, it's that this is, it's different because it's not really even a platter road, but it's the same in that it is taking over something that was a homeowner developer, um, function that then we would, we would own. And that, so I bring it up for the group because it's, it's a big deal. So here's the deal. We've got a responsibility to provide safety to all of our residents in this county. Number one, number two, historically, we have done some things, uh, in partnership with some of these entities that we don't do anymore because it wasn't, it wasn't, I don't even want to second guess people from decades ago, but it's not something we would do now, right? You can go to the bowl on County Road 95 in Palm Harbor, where we let, allowed a commercial developer to be responsible for maintaining the pumps to make sure that they don't flood in that area. Well, they separated the piece of property out. Now nobody knows who owns the pumps or I'm trying to, same with Estancia Boulevard. The people that live there now, they know they have no responsibility for it. The folks that were there that originally did the deal are long gone. We provide, we approved a process that clearly was not enforceable. We can't, I mean, so we just let it go. No, it's not their responsibility. It's not our responsibility. We don't have a road for people to get back and forth to get our ambulances and fire trucks and all of that to the properties. Um, so there's an issue. And so I guess if nothing else, I would like to know what that scope of work that you're talking about is. There are a lot of unincorporated or a lot of places where they have private roads inside a gated community. That's different. That's different. Oh, Hunter, absolutely it's different, but we have a lot of roads. I mean, I got real examples of roads that are falling apart or holes in the road on private roads that are attached to a county owned road that they, the residents have threatened to come in here and say, fix my road. And we've said, okay, but we're not going to take it over because if we take it over, we take over that liability. And then, and then the money that they, the increments that we've provided to finally get our roads up to par would be insufficient. Um, and so I'm not saying it's not the right thing to do. I'm saying there, we've got to tie it with the revenue available. And so I would like to, I just want, I want us all to be in agreement. I have these two examples in, in North County that I've heard about. Okay. So I'm just saying, tell us what the scope of this challenge is. I have no idea what it is. Um, those are the only, that's the only road that I hear about that's under, under duress right now that doesn't have an actual owner of the property anymore. Oh, the, there's no question that this is different. Um, so the, it, this one is different, but it, but it's, it's precedent setting to the, the overall issue of private roads. That's why what, if we can separate out what differences are that we can address so that the precedent is minimized. So why, so I'll bring back the scope of the issue of the private roads, the things that, you know, and Kelly's listening. So, I mean, we, we can probably put this together pretty easy about what, what we have, what, what really the magnitude of the issue is, um, where we have challenges. Okay. And then specifically to this issue is, which is, and again, I think your concern about precedent is valid. So we just, where do we split them up so that you don't have precedents across the board, right? I'd love to take them all on, but I don't think you want the bill that goes along with it, you know? I mean, and, and that's the problem that, you know, Pasco County's dealt with for years is again, you know, you, you buy a home, you don't, you don't check to see if the homeowners association is funding themselves well enough to fix the roads. And all of a sudden they just banned and you bought a home and nobody, you know, you didn't know. And, and so now your road falls apart. And, and that's, you know, that's unfortunately, you know, the issue because it, like you said, it occurred, it was what happened 30 or 40 years ago. Yeah. And this particular world is Stancy Boulevard isn't even within a development. Yeah. It's, it goes by the development and connects communities. And just to, and just to help commissioners understand to, to even bring it up to a minimum standard, you would be encroaching on structures. There's a, there's a lot of risk. Yeah. A lot of risk. Yeah. Well, there's risk on the other side too, if our fire trucks can't get to them. So just, so just keep that in mind. So we'll do a wipe. So we'll first focus, rather than focusing on roads, we'll focus on magnitude of the issues and kind of break them down between this particular issue, private roads, and, and, and we'll start there. And making sure that we differentiate the types that we're talking about, if we can. I mean, I don't want to, you know, say that they're, that they're all the same or they're all different, but if, if the commissioners are in agreement, I'm, I mean, it sounds like a conversation between me and commissioner Eggers. Is this a high priority? Is this, I want you guys, what's the ranking of priorities? Tell me you want us to do this. Well, again, I think, I think commissioner Scott brought it, you know, up. The issue is how difficult is the job to get the information together? Certainly there's no cost. Is this a high difficulty factor, I guess? Yeah. To, to, to do the, to just do the initial report, not to take over the roads. That's easy. All right. Well then let's do the initial. We can do the report. Yeah. Take, see what the scope of. Taking over roads is a bigger deal. That's a high difficulty factor. That's high difficulty and high cost. Okay. Isn't that how the divers learn? Okay. We'll try, we'll try. Oh, I'm sorry. Mike. I've heard you talk about this a lot. Maybe this is something we could refer to for Pinellas to look at. They're NPO traffic people. I don't know. Kelly's got the information on the private roads. Yeah. I mean, it's not, a local road isn't really there, isn't really there. All right. They've got plenty of funding. Jill just texted me. Jill's texting me. It says it's a ton of time. We can get the initial report together. And Jill's at home recovering from a surgery. So, um, but she's obviously engaged. Um, and we'll probably use a contractor to be able to get that type of information together. I didn't even think we may not have all the information on all the private roads, but we can, we can get that information together and then bring it back to you for, you know, a further discussion. Maybe focus just on the problem child's first. Well, I don't, I think, I think the issue is outlining the, outlining the scope of the issue. I'm, I'm, I'm deadly concerned. Remember just seven years ago, you had over a thousand miles of road that were, um, in failed condition. Now we're in down under 300 miles. Okay. We've been working, they've worked hard to try to take, especially these side streets. We were, we took over years ago. We took over side streets that were not County brought up to County standards. The one that we did up on Palm Harbor, they pulled trees that were used as a road base. That's the reason you were getting potholes and you didn't have drainage. And we took them over and we just did it. Well, you know, now it's costing our taxpayers a lot of money. That's where, that's where we're finally getting caught up on some of these side streets that we weren't putting money into those before you started giving us these increments. Well, I mean, they were, I, I can't, I get, I don't have a report on that. I know that like the one that, you know, you and I are very familiar with that has the deep ditches and stuff. I mean, that was a private, that was private road that was built when it was originally built and we just took it over. And so we didn't make them bring it up to the County standards or anything like that. Um, and so then we own it. And then when it comes to, we can't just repave it because it has no road base. And so now we have to completely rebuild it. And, and, and that's the, that's what, that's the concern, obviously, anytime you're taking over private roads is the cost to bring it up. And we have new standards now, right? Yeah. Any new developer wouldn't be able to do that, but they were able to back then. I understand. So as long as that's been stopped. Right. Right. But I can get you a, I can tell you how big of a scope that issue is outside of private gates. Yeah. Outside of private gates. Yeah. One other piece of hopefully good news is the County road 95 pump station. We went, sought an injunction and the owner of the commercial entity is applied for a permit to fix that pump station. It's currently ongoing. Oh, good. FYI. All right. Nice. Hopefully that'll be a big enough pump to do the job, Kelly. We ended up having to go out there too. Um, we did. She spent a lot of time out there. Um, okay. On, on down to commissioner, uh, Lavala's issues. So the first two, I think are, are caught up with the MSTUs. If we can kind of roll those together and commissioner Lavala, feel free to, to chime in. Um, the other, the other two that commissioner Lavala brought up was, um, looking at, um, library cooperative. Support that. Second. Um, save millions of dollars. We can get you a report on what they do. Um, just a basic function of what they do, how they get their funding and what they spend their money on. Um, difficulty factor. Well, I mean, I'm not even looking over at staff. I wouldn't think so. Um, but these are the, the, I've housed these over in office management budget under Chris, but it'll, but there'll be different people conducting these studies. So, and for the library cooperative, you know, I think it'd be important to look at, which you could easily break down, which I've already done and can forward off, you know, the cost per an unincorporated user in some cities, I mean, is upwards of $200 where they could go directly to the library cooperative. If they were a Hillsborough County resident and get the same card for a hundred dollars. So you have unincorporated residents that are paying $170, $200. But yet if you're outside of our jurisdiction, you could get that same card with access to the same stuff for $100. And then the burden that, um, the cities pay is less than even the $100. Um, so I think to make it fair, you know, that should really be, be looked at, um, the cost per user, an unincorporated user. Okay. Chris, take notes. Mr. Chair. Yes. Um, I can't remember if, uh, Commissioner Scott, if you were with us yet or not, perhaps Commissioner Eggers and Commissioner Peters will remember when, um, we had representatives coming up, talking to us about the cooperative and, um, what they felt at the time was the unfairness of the cooperative because, um, they felt like they were losing some of their autonomy to be, to be able to provide certain services. Um, and because you had larger, uh, cities that were a part of the co-op, um, excuse me, their voice was kind of diminished in requesting services or even talking about the fee structure on Commissioner Eggers. I don't know if you remember that. Right. Penalized. Right. Materials back because they were holding on to them. Yeah. And the rental of even the, the, like, um, the digital books and things like that for people. So I just remember we had a long, which was, we agreed. Yeah. To that. Okay. Um, so yeah, so they just, um, so that was a big problem. I mean, and so they said nationwide, they don't have late fees anymore. So PPLC said, nobody has late fees anymore. I was like, okay, I guess that's the new wave. Nobody gets penalized for not breaking rules and other people can't. And that was also a, um, a financial line, if you will, for some of the things that they wanted to do that they had no other funding source to do. So not trying to milk people, you know, for a late book, but, um, it, it was a way to having that fine, if you will, was a way to get the material. They really wanted the material back, not necessarily the fine collection. So I just wasn't sure if you guys remembered that all as a part of it, but I look forward to the, I look forward to the discussion. Okay. Okay. So, um, then the next item is, uh, Commissioner Lavallis asked us to look at officer resilient and asset management. It is now titled deep, the, um, uh, office of fleet and asset management. So we've, um, combined those down again, and, but we can get a report on what they do. Um, again, they're, we centralized that to manage all of our County assets and they use city works, uh, to be able to look at data to target where we put and invest our capital programs to where it's not everybody throwing in what they need in their capital assets. It's data driven as to where we make improvements in our capital asset system. Um, but we also added fleet under Robert Mills. Who's the, um, the director over that area, but we can get a report on that. That's pretty straightforward. Okay. Adding fleet to it is just a month old, you know, and then this is with Joe Laura retiring. Yeah. We come divided it out. We took per purchasing and risk, put those under crisp. And then we took fleet and we put that under Robert Mills. I thought that was recent. Um, you had a commissioner, you had asked for a, um, um, a list of all the homeless services we provide, um, in the County. And so again, we can, we can prepare a report on that. Um, that's not high intensity, right? No, it's, it's not. And you know, you've, you've asked for this and I actually, we'd met with Matt and I met with Karen yesterday and you know, there, there's a lot that they do. Um, you know, and, and we should probably kind of outline some of that and have some of those discussions early because a lot of the things that they do, you know, it's so interdependent. If you don't do this, then it's like squeezing a balloon. Something else happens over here. Right. Right. You know, and so we can, we can put, we, we had really intended from the budget process and your questions about putting more of that information together and having discussions early, um, about that. You're doing the medical stuff or something that they're doing, right? You're already analyzing that. We're going to do the medical. Okay. So we're going to look at all of our, um, it's actually on, on my list somewhere here. Um, on the back page, you had study the human services, Pinellas County health program, care for the homeless. So they're kind of, we're kind of the same. Second to last. There it is. Yeah. So we're gonna look at all of our health care for our health care and health care for the homeless. So that's, that's, um, what we've, what we provide through the, um, health department and what we provide at our clinic overall on 49th. Okay. Well, do we also, um, um, the homeless coalition, right? The, the COC, we, do we give them money? I'm, I think there's more to it than just. There is. And that's where I think we can, uh, to, to address the, the issues, the, the homeless services we provide, you also asked for the, um, I don't know why I'm, I'm, I'm blanking all social action funding. Okay. So we, we provide, we provide funding, but they're all interrelated. We provide funding to social action funding. We provide funding, uh, health care for the homeless. We provide, um, different types of services. We'll outline all of those because all of them are also, they, a lot of them were one funding piece, especially for some of these grants. And they were, they, they get state or federal money. A lot of those are being cut. So the impacts, you know, are, are going to be across the board if they lose, you know, and we're going to actually be bringing a program to you. The, some of these, some of these federal cuts are going to impact people that were on in turn, it's going to have impact. They're going to end up somewhere. And, and so we'll, we'll have those discussions when we bring those to you, but, um, that's, it's why, why does the sheriff run safe harbor? Because nobody else was providing it. And, and otherwise they're in the jail, they're in the ER. Um, Yeah, it's real. It's, it's, it impacts, it impacts them as individuals and humans, but it impacts all of our residents and our budget. Yeah. We're going to pay for it one way. Yeah. And so if we can outline all the different things that they do in the health at, at, in our human services department and Karen's department, I think that addresses a lot of these and, and then we can have discussions about how it impacts. I mean, the stuff you're doing with the opioids, uh, uh, settlement funds, I mean, a lot of them are behavioral health. They have a tie into behavioral health and social services. Well, so that then ties into, you know, the, it does tie into the one that you were looking at doing anyways. Um, so it sounds like when you look at the healthcare, that's the homeless is going to get pulled into it. I don't know if that's going to cost you more resources to do that, but I think it's going to all fold in together anyways. So. Well, I don't, I guess the idea, and this is, I put under county administration, but these are things that you brought up as commissioners during the budget process. We have a whole list of, you know, 50 other items that Chris has in terms of efficiency for how things are procured or this or that or whatever. So there's a lot of other stuff that they're working on right now. These are the things that were really commissioner directives. Well, I like that Chris, you know, and so we're even internally going to have to pare down. We only do have so many, so many people to, to do various pieces, but we're going to be looking at that, but, but we can, you know, again, I think we, I can check off and we don't have really an issue. Karen's already working on it. The, the social action funding, the healthcare for the homeless and the, um, uh, homeless services. Um, and so, you know, absent, you know, anything else, we'll take those on and try to provide more information early spring. And then commissioner Scott, you, you brought up a list of any direct non-competitive, procured, or appropriated to any nonprofit vendor, um, that it hasn't been reviewed. So any, any additional guidance on that? And just, I just want to make sure that we're, that, you know, we don't have things that have just been on autopilot, you know, that have just been being funded and we haven't looked at in a long time. I, and I think anything we do in that world should be competitively bid to the maximum extent that it possibly can be. I just think creative panels was just, uh, what kind of bubbled that up, but I just want to make sure there aren't other things like that out there that are just, that we haven't seen, haven't reviewed in a long time. And that kind of, in my mind, kind of goes a little bit with, uh, reviewing the efficiency of, um, of our social action funding as well. It's just making sure do we have good processes in place to make sure that we're being transparent and that we're competitively bidding everything that we should be bidding. All right. And just for the purposes of kind of clarifying that, I also want to tie it back to your previous, like the MSTU pieces. So for instance, FIXA is a not-for-profit, the Feather Sound agency is a not-for-profit, the, the Seminole group. These are not-for-profits that we have agreements with to manage the properties in accordance with the MSTU funding. Is that what you're talking about as well? Or is that just part of the MSTU piece? I really wasn't talking about MSTUs really at all in that world. I was just trying to narrow. I think we're talking about like the health department. We automatically fund the health department each year, you know? Right. Yeah. Um, and, and, and, and... Do we fund the opportunity council? Um, Chris? I don't, I have no idea. Pardon me? Yeah. I don't know the answer to that. Right. So I, somebody called me and asked me about the opportunity council the other day and I was like, you know, and I looked it up today and we have somebody representing the county. I don't know if it's staff or an, I don't know. I know nothing about it. I really just don't know that much about it. Chris is taking notes. Yeah. They, they apply for funds through our social action funding, but they received the bulk of their funding from the LIHEAP program, which is out of, um, um, the federal government for the low income, um, energy efficiency program. Right. So I just didn't know if that's what Brian was talking about. Oh, okay. Stuff like that. Right. That's what Brian's talking about is stuff like that. Right. Okay. We'll look at those. We'll try to identify areas that are, like you said, automatic, you know, and, and we'll address the social action funding. It is competitive and we bring those to you, but, but we'll look and see if there's any other areas like that and, and then bring those up for discussion. Yeah. I just want to make sure there's some stuff out there that's just on autopilot. They spend year after year after year. Right. We'll do our best to do that. I will tell you, every time I asked staff to do a fee somewhere through mid year, they go, well, we forgot to raise this fee and you know, somebody found it. And so I'm sure we'll, we'll, if we can get a 90% solution, we'll, we'll clean them up over the following years. Okay. So I assume this is like the extension and all that that we're going to talk about next. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to talk about extension. Cause I, um, yeah, go ahead. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Go ahead. Trying to kind of move through. Um, the next item, I didn't know commissioner, if the OPAGA study that we put on our legislative, does that address that? I think it does. At least I think for now, anyways, um, I just want to make sure that, you know, that's one of those things that could just pop up one day and suddenly we have to deal with it. It could be a big impact on our, on our fire district budget. But, but I think that's probably a higher difficulty factor. I'm guessing. And especially, you know, we had a discussion with city managers, you know, and, um, you know, regarding all the property tax bills that are floating around at the state, you know, and how would you fund, you know, fire, police and things like that. Right. So I think the OPAGA study probably checks that box for right now. Okay. Um, go back. Um, I think we kind of addressed that before, but, um, oh no, this is long-term budget sustainability. So I kind of our internal, um, and, and looking at, you know, the age of our workforce and, and, and trying to, you know, plan out. And so we kind of do that, you know, already we know we always have that turnover. Um, so we can try to do kind of a multi-year based upon those types of things. Um, but any additional guidance on that? Well, I think, I think there seems to be interest generally in slowing down again, not trying to let people justify their existence. That's not what I'm talking about, but slowing down the growth of government that's been built up over the years. And some of that is in, um, you know, the decision years ago, and I, I think it turned out to be a good one, uh, establishing CRAs around the county that ended up trying to target areas of the cities for investment so that the returns of those properties values would go up. And at some point that would stop. And those funds would start being redirected to the county budget. I mean, those TIF dollars are huge there. And when they start coming in play back into the county budget is important to know as we, again, it, we, we probably not going to affect next year's budget. Perhaps it might, I don't know what's coming up 2030, like 2032, big ones, but yeah, we have some look in. We have, we have one small one in between now and there. Um, and I think the rest of them are in the again, we're trying to plan for the stopping the growth of government. I'm not talking about CPI increases for, for salaries and that kind of thing. I'm talking about just that, that effort in itself, um, I think is, is important. I also, I just wanted to make sure we're also taking a look, you know, I keep, I say this, I don't know how we compare, uh, in terms of average age of our employees here at the county. I have no idea. Um, it says we're 53, 54 years old. Is that normal around? I mean, is that just because of the age of the overall population, um, skews towards, I don't know, but I, I would suspect we're going to be getting younger in, in years to come. You're getting younger. I'm yeah, no, not me, but they'll be, they'll be moving me out. So they'll be moving other folks into that. I'm just talking about how that looks as, as we're looking forward in the next five to 10 years. Okay. I get an idea now. And that kind of goes down with your next item with the pay grades and stuff, you know, and I, I, we can kind of show you how we do that budgeting because we, we do look at when are people retiring and, and we constantly have people retire. So we have a payout there for their, you know, vacation leave. And then you, we budget them at a lower. So when we budget them the next year that we, we budget for that position to come in at a lower starting salary, and then someone that's been here for, you know, a decade or more. Um, so that, that is how we build the budget, you know, currently. Right. Um, so, but we know that at some point they're, they're at the top of their pay grade, right? They, it's really hard to reach the top of your pay grade because the, you know, you, what happened that, that's a, that's another, that's a longstanding pay issue, but we've been doing, let's just say the 3%, right? Okay. And if we do 3%, your pay, you, you, you adjust your ranges by 1%, you know, a year. So you got 2%, and so you got to be here a long time to hit the max. But those are different. When we do those pay grade adjustments is to see what the market's doing. So we make those pay grade adjustments, right? We, but we also, we also factor that yearly based upon, um, you know, market analysis. And so they, they do, they move both the range, they move the, your pay, but the range goes slower than your pay, but it takes a very, very long time to hit the top of your market. That's a challenge for employees, which is not the piece that you would want to hear. It's if I, if I work at a job six years, I should be at the midpoint and they're not at the midpoint. And that's supposed to be when you're fully, uh, you know, um, doing your job, but I would have, we would have to give adjustments on top of the 3% in order to be able to do that. And we can't afford to do that. We're not, we're not connecting on this one because, um, for me, the range is, is very different for somebody that comes in for a job that is coming in at a starting job and versus somebody who's been on that particular job for 20 years or 25 years. And the rates are going to be different. That's what I'm trying to capture and understanding as we move from an average age 54 to an average age 45, what does that look like? I have no idea. Over time. Or try to, I'd say what you're on. I'm just trying to get, I'll try to get a better idea. These are, these are things that are kind of inherently in the structure of, of government. So just trying to understand what that looks like. You got that, Chris. Okay. We'll try it. We'll try to look at something like that. Um, next year. Thank you, Chair. Oh, sorry. Thank you, Chair. And I think with that, I know we talked a little bit about during, um, you know, the budget about looking at like the PTO that employees earn and then them not having to take it, um, and then capture, um, if they do retire, they have hundreds of hours banked that they now get paid out at the top of that they're earning now versus of when they earned those hours. Where they earned it out. Correct. So, I think there was discussion in our BIS sessions about looking at that policy. So perhaps we can include that, um, in there as well. Chris, did you have anything for sure? Nope. Okay. The next item is we have to prepare a financing plan, kind of going to Commissioner Scheer's, you know, discussion earlier, uh, for the new campus. So we can throw that in as one of the options and ideas. Yeah. So, you know, value of the land down here, whatever it's worth, 60, 80 million. Um, you know, do you get 30 million because you do a lease and then you can decide how you want to do that and what that looks like and things like that. You know, for that, for that discussion, it might be a good idea to have a, some kind of a professional appraiser or somebody let us know what they think the, uh, present value of the properties are and what the present value of the long-term land leases might be. So we would know what kind of difference it would be between selling and the long-term leasing. Because when you lease a property for long-term, you usually get a big cash down. I'm not looking for residual payments over 20 years. I'll give you a long-term lease for 99 years. What can we sell that lease for? And CBRE can do that for us. They have all the expertise to do that. They manage all types of land leases and things like that in their portfolio. That would be great for that discussion if they could think about it. And so you were talking right to the person that can make that happen for us. Okay. I think that's a good one. Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah. We can prepare different options and ideas and move, you know, and so we'll, we'll prepare that for the spring. But Barry, we, again, this is a, you know, an issue on, you know, we, we, the bonding that we do have is in the, our sewer bonds, right? I mean, that's, that's most of the, Say again? It's all our, yeah. It's all our bonds. Sewer bonds. It's all sewer bonds. It's all we have. Correct. So again, They're not even bonds. It's private bank debt. It's private bank debt. It's not even bonds. I haven't looked at it. I thought they were bonds. Don, Don, it is? Yeah. Okay. They're bonds. Some of them are direct placement with banks, but they're bonds. Maybe, but the idea is, is that again, those are assets that last a while, right? I mean, these aren't, these aren't assets that are, we're expensing in one year. Yeah. So when I, when I think about that, as it relates to our water and our sewer lines, both distribution lines that have lots of value or lots of life, and all we do is pay for it with penny, not the sewer part, the water part. Remember, and what I'm concerned about, what I'm concerned about is our, our, our utility rates that we have that are based on water and sewer, right? Correct. Correct. And the capital that goes into that. Most of the water though, I'd have to look at that, but most of the water is, they, it's, it's still captured from the water users. So it's still treated as a utility and a user charge. No, I understand. What I'm saying is because of that capital that we're, we're putting on, and usually it's a, we're doing it through the, you know, through the, as you say, the rates, the rate structures from our residents, instead of bonding it out over a few years and not putting it all on the residents today, because it's not just for the residents today. Yeah. We can, we can definitely have that discussion with Jeremy in terms of our capital improvement program and on, on the utility side. Yeah. Um, I mean, I, you know, road paving is a little different because it's what 10 years, 15 years. Sometimes if you're lucky 20, some of our roads got really bad, 25 years probably. But I mean, those are, again, those are shorter, shorter term, but the water, the water pipe, that's what, you know, is that, that system and we get a water break every other, you know, I send those out to you. So you see, see, see how much work our staff goes through. Um, there's always a, there's a water break, I think every weekend. Well, I do remember when I first came on here, the outgoing utility director said his biggest concerns are the conditions of the pipes of water and sewer underground. And, um, to that extent, you guys have a good record of how we're improving our roadway over the last few years with those three additional millage rates. That's been great. All I'm saying is, is that there's, there's another story to be told about underground. And, and they, the, the story is what Jeremy's working very hard on. And then they have been, they remember the concrete pipe that failed, right? Okay. You know, I mean, now you've got to design it, you've got, I mean, there's a lot that goes into, and you're going to, and you're starting to see these conversations that we had four years ago being put in the ground now, right? And, and so they're finally coming due. The office asset management that we were just talking about, they're the ones that look at where those breaks are occurring and, and help use data to direct our capital improvement program versus being people's knowledge and things like that. They actually do the condition index to look at those assets underground or above ground to make, make those decisions. Well, again, trying to figure out ways to minimize the impact of these costs on our utility rate increases. Okay. That's all I'm saying. I got it. We're getting hammered. We're getting hammered by Duke energies. I've gotten a couple of residents that have sent bills that have just changed, and it's about a 20% increase in their rates. That's huge. I mean, and the same thing, you know, you gotta be careful about our own utility. So, so the, the next one is a big one. You know, you brought it up this year. We had a good discussion about it, and this is the office of human rights. Okay. So, um, you know, I'm, and I'm going to meet with Bettina, um, I think next week, you know, just kind of talk about how, how, how do you want to do this study? I mean, um, this is, this is pretty detailed because she can really tell you what she does. Right. Um, and, and I, and I'm sure she has a lot of data and stuff around, but I, but, but what I, what I can't tell you is, you know, if you don't do that, what is in another place where they don't have an Office of Human Rights, what happens? What happens? That resident that has an issue, what do they go through? Is it, they don't get a hearing? It's delayed a year. You don't get, I mean, I don't, I don't know those. So how, you know, I'm just trying to get your guidance on how do you want us to conduct this study? Certainly I can put a staff person on it. They're going to have limit, limited knowledge to be able to collect that data. And we'll be calling around to places and things like that. I can hire a consultant to do that type of study. So I'm really looking for your guidance on how do you want to go about this? I think the history of that was, well, how it started, there was a, I, uh, Department of Justice, uh, settlement that kind of created it, but I guess St. St. Pete used to have their own similar office and then that went away. And because, and they just sort of started sending everything over to the county. My understanding is they've kind of got some other office now that does something similar. Actually, um, it wasn't the city's desire to do away with the EEOC office that was located in the basement at city hall. Clarence Scott was over that department. It was EEOC that decided to move all of its services to a centralized location in Tampa. So that happened. And then Clarence became the person over our, the stormwater sewer department and all of that good stuff. Um, and of course, any cases that could have been referred up here were referred up here, but that's where the office went. It was a four or five staff, Teresa Jones worked there, Ken Jones, Clarence, and a couple other people because there were, you know, a lot of cases that were coming through at the time. Um, um, so the, you know, what happened here with the office for human rights, it doesn't just take up, um, issues relative to housing. It was expanded and took on the wage theft ordinance piece. So persons would have a place to come. It takes on any ADA issues. So that piece, uh, came over here, of course, affordable housing, any type of housing concerns. Yeah. Housing discrimination issues we take up over here. Um, and then the funding, it doesn't pay for everything, but, you know, being funded through HUD and other sources, um, in order to, um, do those investigations. So that I just wanted to kind of give the history on how it kind of moked around what would, what would be the, uh, you know, if this office didn't exist anymore, um, there's not necessarily a wage theft ordinance office in Tampa, but if it were any housing discrimination or ADA or things like that, residents would then have to go over to Tampa. So how long it would take for their cases to be heard or for them to work through the machination of that, you know, that would be an additional time, I'm sure, because now you're covering two large swaths of, of, um, our region rather than just one. But I think those are some of the things that could be a part of the, um, the request is if this office didn't exist over here, where would our residents, um, have an opportunity to seek support or assistance? So I guess that could be a part of the, the background report. Um, and then maybe additional information about the funding, just how that comes into the county, you know, um, is it based on a flat amount? Is it based on the number of cases received and settled? You know, um, maybe that, um, I, I don't know, you know, what you all were thinking, but just based on some of the questions and or concerns. And then certainly, uh, if, because there may be other questions like commissioner share was saying, he thought perhaps some other entities could, um, be the focal point for like a housing discrimination. So what other entities or organizations within Pinellas County would be able to take up, because those are legal matters. They're not you know, you're calling a landlord saying you messed with this person on their rent or whatever. Those are legal cases that are being taken up. Um, if, you know, if they can't be settled right away, then they move on to the next step, which is a legal proceeding. So, you know, maybe what other organizations within the county would be able to, um, take, yeah. Um, if they receive funding, and then what are the requirements from HUD? Because HUD does provide the funding, not all of it, but a large part. So what, what are the necessary steps they would need to, to take in order to become certified, if you will, in order to, uh, conduct those cases. So I, I'm just throwing some stuff out. I don't, I guess my question, how do you want us to do about that? You want me to hire a consultant? You want us to do an internal and get as much information as we can? I'm really looking for guidance from you. You guys brought it up. Thank you, Chair. Um, just first of all, I, I, I don't know, think I'm not really crazy about the idea of a study. Uh, we can, we all know what the different department, that department's doing, uh, pretty much. I mean, I've got the list of their, their, what they do for the citizens. Uh, but I just want to remind you that this department was created by court order. The court with jurisdiction that created it, or had us create it, has determined that we no longer have to have it. We no longer need it. Um, the, the services that are provided by this department are duplicated by numerous state, federal, local, city, or, uh, agencies and private organizations. The department, uh, currently runs us a million five a year to operate. Of, of the services that are not duplicated that I can find, uh, the labor wage theft. That's very important to many people. I believe that could be handled by the department of consumer protection. We have one of those. Um, and, uh, the employee harassments, I think could be handled by our unified personnel services. So, you know, I'm, I'm not crazy about the idea of having a study. I think I, I know what I'd like to do is, is, is would be to, uh, stop funding this, uh, program in any, uh, functions or services that they provide that we need to keep. We can place under the county administrator where it should be, because right now they're kind of operating semi autonomously. And then if y'all do want to have a study of the things that I'd like to know, I would like to study to just quantify the number of agencies that are duplicating these efforts. So we can actually see it. Here's this effort. This is who's else doing it. Um, as far as, um, the study, if you all do want to do a study, I would like to know how many, uh, wage theft cases there's been over the last five years and how much, uh, this department was able to, uh, get returned and provide back to the victims. Yeah. How effective is it in providing? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. No, I just want to how much, no, that's okay. I just, I don't know over the last five years what they've done, but anyway, that could be duplicated by the consumer protection. Uh, and I'd like to know about the harassment cases, how many there have been and whether or not we think that the unified, uh, personnel could handle it. But my thinking is we take the services that we need to keep that aren't dedicated. We put them under, uh, the direction of our County administrator where they belong. And, uh, we no longer have to fund that independent department. I'm hearing from you internal, like just do an internal. Yes. Understand what happens if it goes away. Yes. Right. What the, what other agencies provide those services already and a, um, an accounting of what they've done over the last five years? I just want to say, and, and again, commissioner share, I'm not being negative towards ever looking at any department. Um, but there is a difference between what you want to have and what you need to have. Um, any services that local government provides, they are being provided so that our residents benefit. So it could very well be that someone else could do the services in another County, but is it beneficial to our residents to have to go to another County to get those types of services? And I don't think it is. Um, this is probably an analogy that's way off, but you know, when we're taking care of our, our tax services, we, we don't go all the way to Washington DC for the internal revenue service. There is an office here at the Kroger center, um, where persons can go if they have questions and or issues or concerns regarding their their taxes. So that may not be the best analogy, but right now that's kind of the one that's coming to my mind. I fully support what you just asked for, you know, looking at, um, an internal, um, review of the department to see just what they do and what they don't do. But I will also say this at any point in time. And I know that, um, uh, Bettina has reached out to a few, um, individuals. Some have, you know, communicated with her and whatnot so that she can discuss, uh, what it is that they do. And I have no issue with looking further, but between now and whenever this internal is done, I would encourage you to even go over and visit the department. It's just in the other building, right across the street, go over, visit the department, have a conversation with her. Um, she will be more than happy. I'm sure to provide you with the handouts that we've had that shared, um, what it is that they do, the different departments, what revenue they get from what sources, how many, um, people have been assisted through housing issues, ADA issues, wage theft issues, how much money has been recouped and whether it was from overtime or whether it was from a company closing down and just not paying employees, you know, whatever it is, she does have that, um, for you. So I would encourage you to go over and, you know, much like we visit other departments cause I go visit other departments. I spend time with them like a half a day. Um, you told me about yours. Um, but you know, take this opportunity to go over and to meet the investigators because it's not as simple as just give it to Barry and have Barry do it. But persons have to go through programs to become certified to do those jobs. So you still, what's funny? Oh, sorry, separate, separate conversation. Oh, no, I just thought maybe, but you have to become certified. So it's not like that person can just go over to, uh, uh, uh, a department, those staff then have to go through the appropriate processes to become certified in order to do those jobs. Um, so I'm just, I'm just putting it out there. I don't care about, you know, please, by all means, go in and look it up and, and see what comes of it. But I just, and that's the reason I'm asking the question is what the preference because the legal department says we can do a certain amount internal based upon internal resources. I can, I can have somebody really dig and look and it's, it's, it's really, um, look, you guys raised this issue. So I'm looking for guidance. Oh yeah. And like, you know, the lawsuit is over and that's a good thing because that means people fell into compliance. It's sad that you even had to have a lawsuit to be able to provide people with the support. So yes, the lawsuit is over. So now it becomes, do you need to have it? And I think that it's proven itself beyond measure that there is still a need because unfortunately we still have people out there in the community who don't treat others right. You know, unfortunately, and they should be held accountable. So anyway, I'm good with the internal, but I would encourage. When you do the internal, you've got to make sure that consumer protection can manage it and they have the appropriate training or, so if it were to go to another department, if you do internal, you'd have to say, okay, well, if the recommendations were consumer protection takeover, can they? If you're talking about consumer protection taking over the wage theft ordinance, yes. That is, that's a small piece of their overall caseload. Right. Okay. If you're talking about consumer protection taking over, well, then you wouldn't save money because I would need the people to take it over. Right. Okay. So I'm not, we're only talking about two pieces. The other pieces would go away under the proposal Commissioner Shear raised. Okay. And, and that's the reason I'm asking where, how do you want to do this study? Because I mean, I can do it. I'll, we'll do the best we can, staff resources, call it around, finding how other places do that. But Tina's been incredibly helpful in shedding light on the things that they deal with day-to-day. We can certainly collect that and provide that back to you, or I can hire a consultant to help, you know, kind of do a more thorough study and look at trends and, you know, all around the nation. But each, each, depending on the level, is the amount of time we have staff resources to put into that. What I'm hearing is internal for right now. Okay. All right. That's, that's what I needed on that. We're good. Yeah. I'll just say, um, I thank you, Commissioner Shear. I mean, you know, you have the U S you know, equal employment opportunity commission, which I think would cover a lot of like wage theft, um, to your point. Um, and additionally, the Florida commission on human relations, um, which also covers, um, human relations, um, equal, uh, compensation disagreements and they, you know, do millions of cases, um, here in Tallahassee. So maybe, um, and the federal, um, equal opportunity commission has an office in Tampa. So maybe staff reaches out to Tallahassee and, and the U S, uh, upper employment commission say, maybe offer up a little sliver of space and we can have an office for them here with some pamphlets. So maybe that's looked at as well. We'll collect some information. We'll bring it back to you. And you may want to dig deeper or whatever. We'll try to bring that to you sooner rather than later. Um, the next one's more informational medical examiner has said someday he's going to retire. Um, and there's actually a process that you have to go through for appointing a medical examiner. He was explaining it to us. We didn't know. We're going to outline that for you. He really wants to kind of focus on simplifying his fee process to where the next person, um, doesn't have to deal with what he considers kind of a complicated area for doctors that don't want to deal with. Well, his comment was doctors don't want to deal with complicated fee structures. So, uh, let's simplify this. So it just kind of FYI, we'll work with him on that. And I don't, he doesn't give us a date or anything, but he's putting it on our radar. Um, we've talked about this, but you know, really the review of the finance in the airport. Okay. So we're, we're really looking and we pulled off the, um, uh, the, the, the fee ordinance because a legion had concerns. Um, but they also had concerns about the prioritization of the capital projects. So Mark's working really hard at working with them, uh, to make sure it's a partnership and, you know, and, and we have a prioritization of our capital stuff. So we've got to do that. We'll bring that back to you, but it's, it's a pretty involved thing. It's really isolated out in his area. And, uh, so that's a big piece that we're going to be working on. Um, kind of the ongoing issue is, is making sure all of our fees are up to date, as you guys have directed, not, not to have large spikes, but, you know, CPI type stuff based upon cost of service in those various areas. So we're going to try to keep those up to date. Um, and then the next are a couple that, you know, I've put on one is a review of, of our fleet operations. Our fleet management department does a great job, you know, and they, but they serve us a lot of vehicles all around the County. Um, is there, is there better, more efficient models? Um, because I'm concerned about the downtime we have people running vehicles back and forth to fleet and things like that. And so I've asked for an internal look at, you know, if you were a business, you'd count the downtime of your vehicle, because it's making you money, you know, and I don't think we count the downtime and the staff time on the efficiency of how we do our fleet operations. So I put it on here because it's pretty involved, but I think it's a, it's a ripe area where we could find efficiencies in the way we do our operations. We've outsourced a lot over the years, things that we used to do internal, we've outsourced pieces, you know, now they're doing mobile oil changes where you don't have to bring them into their, they have been creative. So I'm not saying they're not doing all of it, but I'd really like to do a deep dive into that. I'd like to see that too. And I'd like to kind of understand what we have, what components we have outsourced. I mean, because obviously, that's something I deal with. So we might just sign this to the, you know, former chairman and, you know. Yeah, what's he going to be doing? Yeah, it's kind of like a lot of time on my hands. So if I'm not here, you'll find me at the fleet department. Well, and the next item you're into too, which is, you know, risk. Right. So you've got some experience in that. But those are, those are two areas. We may really look at our risk and our purchasing when we, when we upgrade and do the ERP system. You're going to find a lot of efficiencies through the redesign of that process. But I want to look and see if there's, there's simple wins that we can get while we're doing that implementation, which is three years off, you know, before we get it fully implemented. So those are two areas that, you know, again, I have nothing but, you know, kudos for the groups performing that work. I think, you know, in today's technology though, are there better ways of doing that? You know, some simple things we've talked about AI, you guys have talked about AI, you know, and I learned that, you know, we, there's some things, the way we do password protections and things like some, our internal processes keep us from implementing some of the types of technologies that others, you know, might use, bots and things like that. So, you know, we, are there things that we can do in the interim while we're looking for long-term solutions? These are these internal practices that we spend a lot of resources in. So, you know, we, I, I put those on. We talked about the MSTU, we talked about human services and social action funding. So on the, on the social action funding piece, I, I've gotten some feedback from, you know, not-for-profits that didn't get the funding and felt that the process wasn't as transparent as it, as it could have been. And I think when we did the ARPA funding, the Penelope Community Foundation did a really nice job of, of being very transparent about how they came to their decisions. I'd like to see us move to more something like that, where people understand how they ranked and if they were funded, why they were funded, if they weren't funded, why they weren't funded. So as we're looking at that, that's one of the things we can ask Karen to explain the process and, um, and I'll ask her to look at, you know, the ARPA funding and I'm sure she's watching. You know, so, um, so I'll ask her to look at that and, you know, again, it's part of that process. Um, I think these are, there's some really great things in here and I think we'll continue as we go through the year to identify some of that stuff. We might find other things that we want to take a look at. Um, I do think that we need to remember that number one, these services that we're providing, the justification from them are resident driven, right? So, uh, sometimes it's court driven. Um, and when the courts changes and they, they say you don't need to have that anymore, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's not good to have it because we don't want it to swing back the other way. So having a group that's in place, however, that's structured. And that gets to my last point, which is really if we're going to get rid of a service or a department, I want to know full details on what the other side is going to look like when it's done. One of the things I'm tired of hearing about sometimes from the state is about getting rid of property taxes. And yet I haven't heard one idea yet on how the substitute is going to look like what, what's going to happen when they change that. I mean, I, I have no idea. And now we're starting to hear different versions of it, where it might be exemption related and all that stuff. I just think it's important for us to remember why we have it. We have it in place for our residents. It's there's a historic perspective on that, that may or may not be as valid. Um, but to the extent that I don't want to see the pendulum swing a whole nother way where we're having a lot of problems because the service that are being provided by folks that we have now are now being relegated to another organization or another level that puts them way down the line in terms of getting things taken care of. So, uh, efficiency, effectiveness is all important to me, but also what that other side is going to look like. And, and if we're not going to have it, what, what are our residents going to miss out on? Uh, that protection is extremely important, um, on so many levels. And, um, so I'm not going to be quite as, you know, excited about getting rid of things unless we have good solutions for needed services or, or ones that we think as a collective body are important for our residents to have. So just, I mean, just make sure that we are addressing that. Cause it's one thing to poke holes in what's being done in any of our departments, but what's the alternative? And then what's that going to look like in about a year or two? Cause you can, you'll be able to poke holes in that too, because everybody that does work, it evolves. And so I just want to keep that in mind as we do this. It's not, it's, it's one thing about efficiencies and I'm for that big time, but it's also about effectiveness. And it's also about providing a sense of comfort for our residents that they have a place to go specifically regarding the issue that we've been talking about. Um, big deal. It's a big deal. It's not just, you know, cavalierly get rid of something. So, and that's, that's the way I, you know, I just want to make sure we have that scrutiny. Thank you. Yes, chair. Thank you. Um, just real quickly on the risk management. Um, he, the changes that, uh, the legislature made in tort reform and, uh, the insurance, the, the, the, the new laws that we have that are having a big effect. And I don't wait since we're self-insured. I don't know if risk has thought about this, but, uh, just lately my, my insurance policies on my properties, my cars down like 37%. I mean, they're really dropping fast. So maybe look at the tour. What's that? Yeah. I'm telling my property insurance. I just got the policy. The state's actually trying to increase it for us and, uh, our liability and to where people can sue us for more amounts. Well, I'm switching from citizens to another, uh, we do use, we use a broker. We do look at those every year. I just want to make sure. Cause it could be a big number on our results next year. We absolutely look at those each and every year. I'm sorry. I'm not playing our microphone, please. Another provider. Um, so mine went down as well. So mine went up property insurance. Yeah. Citizens are doing their, um, they're dumping. They're dumping. Yeah. They're dumping and they assigned me to this company. That's more. Yeah. And mine's more. It's more. I thought they couldn't do that. Somebody need to talk to somebody. When I got that, I'm like, what, like there's a certain percentage of decrease and then you have to get off citizens. That's what I, if it's, if it's within 20% of your current rate. Okay. Either way. Then, then you have, then, then you need to go to the new company. But what companies will do is they'll write it at 20% when your renewal actually comes up, that it'll be greater than that. And then you can make the choice not to change. If you, if you choose, you can appeal that and it'll be approved. Does that happen to me? Oh, well, citizens sent me that little redistribution of whatever they called it. And then they said, if there's a company listed in this letter, that is the company you've been assigned. Correct. And it was only one listed. So I only had an option of one. Um, but no, they, it was more. So I need to name your company. Maybe. Um, okay. So those, if you have any other ideas, uh, bring those to us. Uh, Commissioner Nowicki brought up another one, which is, uh, involving, um, the, uh, billboards. Okay. And so we are looking at that. Um, I've got internal meeting with the county attorney's office. It's much more involved in that. Um, and so we'll be meeting with, uh, so the cycle time, the cycle times for, uh, digital billboards. Um, so we, so sooner for how long they can flash the digital billboard and unincorporated Pinellas County has to be 60 seconds. Everywhere else around Tampa Bay is like seven to 15 seconds. How many seven to 15? Oh, so we're very involved. Okay. It's a settlement with two major carriers. Um, and there's reasons for that. They were trying to consolidate down signs. So you had to be able to buy down to improve the cycle times. But again, we're going to be meeting with it's more involved. We are working on it. It was something that was brought up. Um, it's been brought up, I think every year since I've been here. Um, and so we're doing a deeper dive and we'll bring back to you, um, ideas, but, um, just so you know, that's also kind of, uh, another thing that we kind of overworked. I think it was. Sorry. I really like the idea of the cycle times be increasing and we can eliminate a lot of boards, static boards, but with that cycle time, then we can get more public service messages out with digital boards that became a static board, you know, very important. Well, that was one of the, again, I don't know all, all the numbers exactly, but there was a, there was a, you know, you gave up making numbers up 10 boards for one. And, and so there was a, you know, a removal of a lot of our boards around the county in that negotiated there was settlement. Correct. Um, and I guess I don't, gosh, 60 seconds is what it is now. That doesn't seem right. Cause I remember seeing some, we'll bring, we'll outline the issue for you then. How about that? Let's do it once because it is involved. And it, and again, you can't just arbitrarily change it. It was part of a settlement. And so we're meeting with the county attorney's office on it. Um, and you know, because my question is, was it effective? How many, how many static boards are still out there? Right? So we're gathering all that information. Again, it's another study we'll be bringing, bringing it back. It's just so under more frequency, the, the, the companies would like that. Oh yeah. And we don't like it for public safety standpoint. No, that's, that's not necessarily it. It's, it was, it's rather it's a carrot and a stick. I, I, I don't even want to, I, I don't really want to get into it here because I want to get advice of the county attorney. Joel is screaming at me right now before okay. Say a Barry don't speak. Um, so I, but we, I just want you to know we are working on that. Um, so that concludes the fall studies. Um, we've got two other items. Um, I have to leave at one. Um, I've got a pain and tooth and I was able to get into one 30 and I'm keeping that. So, um, my three amigos back there, somebody is going to volunteer to go through the agenda with you. Okay. And then the, um, you have the university of Florida issue. So, okay. Well, how do y'all feel about breaking for lunch? And then we can come back and, uh, well, you will, well, his, uh, I don't know. Was his, Barry, you're going to do agenda review. Is that long? No, it's something. One of my staff is, I've got to make a dentist. No, I just was, I was just asking a question, trying to say, did you want to do that now? Um, because of the time, but he, he said, I just have to leave at one. Well, we can write appointments at one. You said appointments at one 30. So you need to leave at one 20. I had to keep it in North County for you. So I got to go up 19. I'm good with whatever majority. However you want to do it. Would you guys want to do agenda review? Do you want to break? 10 minute break, get some food. Yeah. Okay. And then when you got to go, just go. Okay. We'll take a 10 minute break. Okay. Get going here. Do we, since Barry's still here, do we want to just move to agenda review now? What do you think? Good. All right. We'll do that. All right. Um, let's go to agenda review and then we'll come back to, uh, stay here. I might not get done. Uh, we, we, we had Blaine on deck, but, um, we'll try, we'll try to move through here. So going on down to item 19 is the first substantive item. This is a word of bid to advanced roofing for countywide roofing replacement repair services. So again, it's an as needed basis. I'm based on unit pricing. Um, item 21 is a word of bid, uh, Florida, uh, Florida draw bridges for, uh, preventative maintenance repair for our draw bridges, 36 month contract. We spend about $380,000 a year. That's on as needed as well. It's on as needed as well. Item 22, uh, ranking of firms, carousel industries. This is our best maintenance out of our 911. So again, it's a maintenance and support for all of our 911, um, public safety call handling solutions. Um, and you know, again, it covers, uh, all their stuff, 36 months, um, not to exceed $10 million, about $2 million per year. Next is ranking of firms and agreements with Zoll data systems for ambulance billing software. Um, so it's an upgrade to, uh, to the existing, uh, 20 year old technology, um, $5.3 million, uh, over 60 months. Uh, and it's also part of the 25 carryover that you're going to see later on. Item 24 is award a bid to TLC diversified for pump station, one 82 rehab and construction for utilities, $3.1 million over to item 28 Hubbard, uh, construction company, new air co taxiway. So at St. Pete, um, so we've been talking about that a long time, uh, $15.3 million item 29, uh, memorandum understanding. Okay. So we obviously all of the airport property covers our county properties. And so these are the leases we have to pay fair market rate for those. So there's our, our adjusted appropriately. So you can see the impact on that, um, when we have to do it every five years. And so that's item 29 and 30, um, item 31 is, um, uh, revisions to the honoring naming rights policy. Um, so, uh, Blaine has talked to you about that in the past as he makes those alterations. Item 32 is an MSTU for Tampa Bay watch for their boat lift replacement, $20,000. Chair, is it a proper time to ask a question about that MSTU? Uh, I had a question on that MSTU. Yeah, go ahead. Uh, it says at the bottom, there's $336,000 to go on that MSTU. Is that a yearly? Yeah. I don't know where the money comes from really. And so it's, um, it comes out of our unincorporated MSTU. Okay. And it's set aside for these types of projects that the commissioners want to approve. We roll that over year to year. So if the money's not spent, then it carries over. So you have up to $336,000 that you, you could spend if you found projects that you wanted to support. In the Tierra Verde area? No, anywhere in the unincorporated area. Okay. So, so this is the same pot of money that when the, um, Palm Harbor recreation comes in or Eastlake, you know, comes in and they want to do X, Y, or Z, they present those to you. Each of them can be a maximum of $20,000. It's how we paid for the lighting district in Palm Harbor. Uh, could be, you know, different services like that. So the, the 20,000 is the max on this fund. Correct. Per project. It can be used countywide on unincorporated, unincorporated countywide. Okay. It's got to be capital, right? It's got to be capital. Um, and it's funded at about 220 a year, I think. Yeah. And we have, um, we have, uh, a criteria that they have to apply against. Um, and we could, uh, Tom could, could brief you on the specific criteria and how they do that. I just didn't know where money's available. Yeah. Uh, two capital projects for city of Clearwater. Uh, that's, uh, the Marina and the Eddie Seymour complex. Um, you can see, uh, two significant investments, um, uh, with the, uh, TDC dollars, uh, for city of Clearwater, a little over, uh, 15 and a half million dollars. Chair. Yep. I know when we were talking about some of these, you know, we talked about like kind of not like negotiating, but saying like, Oh, you know, we could have like shelters or kind of like, you know, work something out with, um, TDC, you know, recipients like that. We'd have like access for like shelters or space. Is there anything like any agreements that like the County is getting for? Well, like it was really brought up with the Philly's, um, facility and commissioner Peters, you know, brought that up. So do you have space that could be used for an alternative use? Right. Um, these we don't. And so these are independent. We have discussed that at the Philly's. Um, we haven't come up with a solution on that, but, uh, but we haven't had those types of discussions. Can there be another use for that type of facility? Same way, like, uh, you know, the, at the Palm Harbor community center, we also are going to have that as a step down shelter. Um, okay. Uh, 34 is a third amendment to, uh, with the schools for retrofitting for hurricane shelters. So this adds, um, Campbell park elementary to the program 35 is affordable housing, um, state or 2025 for housing initiatives, partner print, um, incentives strategies report. So it's an annual report. They have to do for the ship funds 36. It's our contract with the health department. Uh, so it's broken down into the, um, core services for 5.9 million and two little over 2 million for the school nurse program. And this was as budgeted in this year's budget. 37 is a grant agreement state of Florida, uh, with, for, uh, Phillippe park wastewater collection system improvements. 38 is what you're going to hear about in just a few minutes, um, on the, uh, for the, um, extension service program. 39 is a word of bid to Hubbard construction for countywide pavement management, $18.9 million, which again, to your point earlier on some of the pricing was 10% under the engineer's estimate. So we're starting to see some improvement there. And we did raise the engineer's estimates over the last couple of years, but we're still, it's, it's, it's at least stabilized. It's a way to make sure it comes in under. Well, we had to increase them because we bids were coming in higher. I'm just giving it a hard time. Um, item 40 is a word of bid to, uh, Suncoast development. This is the same thing on our countywide, but this is for our ADA issues with sidewalks, drainage roadway improvements on the ADA side on those roads. Item 41 is our certificate of public needs and convenience for our advanced life supports providers. And there's a whole list listed within your packet 42s, uh, adding flowerwood club park association for an additional, uh, we have funds, uh, to be able to cover that manufactured community. So we're adding them to our list to the 13 we wanted to get to $3.3 million. Um, item 43 is the first responder agreements with the 16 municipalities and independent of fire districts. 30 or 44 is an agreement between Bel Air, Bel Air Blast, Pinellas County and Largo. You might have read that about that in the paper. Um, so that's been resolved and we have a funding agreement for the sharing of that cost. Uh, 45 is a third amendment to the, uh, lease with Melrose Holdings, uh, and Solomon, uh, Clearwater Holdings to extend the lease with the tax collector at North Square. This gets us into the, uh, new North County service center. Uh, this continues the lease until the North County service center is open. When is that supposed to be? Uh, in 27. Thank you. Well, I, seven, but. So under 46, 47 and 48, these are all cases, uh, that we're requesting authority to file. These arise out of code enforcement actions. 46 will be an injunction and 47 and 48 are foreclosure actions. Uh, item number 49 is a, is a confidential settlement. There is a memo working its way around the room, uh, for you all to read. Uh, it relates to, um, the opioid, uh, settlements. Um, so I encourage you to read that. And if you have any questions, let me know before Tuesday and I'm not anticipating any reports. Okay. I will have a report. 52 is, um, our appointments to the medical services advisory council. Um, and we've sent out a memo explaining the change to that process. This was one commissioner Scott approved to move forward and then we'll modify that process going forward for the district appointments. Yep. 53 is appointments to the Palm Harbor community services. Uh, there's an individual appointments, commissioner Eggers, Nookie, and Scott 54. It's a selection of the 2026 chair and vice chair and then commissioner new business. One item 56. Um, this is authorizing, um, the human resources to do fingerprints. So it's fingerprint ordinance. Um, 57 resolution amending the, uh, 25 budget of realigning reserves. There's a whole list of, of items within your packet. Chris can explain those in any details that you like. We can do that on Tuesday. Um, same thing for item 58 and this is for the 2026 budget. Um, just realigning, um, a couple of different things, moving the fleet management as we talked about over to a different division and stuff, um, and the hospital directed payment. Um, 59 is a rank and affirms with HDR engineering for the solid waste master plan. So the previous item moved the money around and then this authorizes the master plan completion. Item 60 is a, um, map amendment from residential, rural to institutional on Keystone. Um, this is for, um, a applicant to redevelop the property with a private school or or five people appearing in opposition or so you'll hear that case. Item 61 is the companion to item 60 for the zoning change. 62 is a, uh, future map amendment, residential urban to residential medium on 18 acres and unincorporated largo. Staff recommendation is for denial. A local planning agency recommended denial by a four to two vote. That would increase the density from 7.5 dwelling units to acre to 15 units per acre. Item 63 is petition for a 10 foot drainage easement. Um, so they can demolish the existing pool deck and replace it with a new deck and pool. Staff recommends approval with the condition that's granted the new utilities and drains that runs to the, through the rear of the property. Item 64 is our annual recertification of exempting, uh, the, or not including the 80 to 120 for live local. So keeping that the way it currently is, it's a renewal of that. Um, item 65 is an agreement to take over the wastewater collection system with the town of North Reddington. And we did the analysis. They're paying the amount that is necessary to upgrade the facilities. Okay. And, uh, so we would take over their system. When would that occur? When would that be? December 2nd. December 2nd. Somebody said that. Tristan. Where? Jeremy. Oh, he is there. I didn't see him way back there. All right. Jeremy says December 2nd. Um, and then item 66, we actually had a really good meeting with retail pet stores, um, on Friday. Commissioner Peters listened in on that and, you know, they offered a couple of clarifications. They wanted to make sure that we were clear on our intent on certain language changes that we were proposing. We said, well, you can propose, um, laying, you know, uh, clarifying language. Um, and so we're giving them the opportunity to do that. We would ask that this be delayed to the December meeting. It gives them an opportunity, us a chance to review that. I don't know that we'll agree. We may agree. Um, and, and then we'll come to you in December for, um, uh, for approval. So we're just going to just delay that to a date certain in December. Delay that to the December meeting. That's the agenda. All right. You good deal. Thanks. All right. You're free to go. We got that in. All right. I think I'd rather stay here, but yeah, if I were you, I would be too, but I do need to go. So I'll send you guys. All right. Thanks, Barry. All right. Uh, so now we're going to go on to the university of Florida presentation. Before I get started, I want to, uh, send a heartfelt, uh, get well, get well soon to commissioner Latvilla from the youth advisory committee. I know that they're all wishing them the very best and looking forward to seeing them back at the, at the committee meeting. Well, thank you. He appreciates that. Um, my name is JP Gellerman. I am the director of the county extension office and thank you for the opportunity to showcase the services that Pinellas County government provides our citizens through extension extension is a, is rooted in the Smith lever act, a federal law that's established a partnership between the national state and county government. And as a result, every one of our 67 counties in the state of Florida has a, an extension office providing a network of support and resources. This part. Yep. Oh, my bad. They just hit the big fingers and they went across the thing. Um, this partnership is formalized through a memorandum of understanding between the university of Florida and each county, which outlines the basic operating procedures and is reviewed every five years. Additionally, the annual salary reaffirmation letter serves as a, as serves as a review of extension faculty costs through the budget process. The goal of extension is take the knowledge from the university and put it to work for the citizens and the people of Pinellas County. When extension began, most of the knowledge centered on agriculture, as that was the primary industry here in Florida, as communities have changed. So has extension extension initiative services are strategic plan and they mirror Pinellas County's strategic priorities. We exist to be responsive to local needs. And we are, we are a department of both UF and Pinellas County. We are a true collaboration. Extension is not a, is not a subsidy. It's a cooperative effort. And we put UF to work for you. We also partner with the state and local organizations in this, we are not duplicating efforts, but cultivating and maintaining partnerships to extend the resources and reach of everyone involved. We leverage strengths and fill gaps to magnify our impacts. For instance, Southwest Florida water management district in the Florida department of agriculture are regulatory agencies that oversee license and certification. While extension provides the training to attain these credentials for free to county staff and at a low cost to local industry. Tampa Bay water works with us to meet their water conservation goals as well. Here in Pinellas County, oops, next one. Here in Pinellas County, the development programs are developed and implemented based on county needs and supported by scientific information, technical information. Further direction is provided by the agents, by local stakeholders and regular meetings with their advisory boards. Members are from industry, local citizens, and other stakeholders. 4-H youth development agent offers programs that prepare young people for future success by providing them to explore their interests, develop their skills, and gain leadership experience in 4-H clubs and after-school programs. I, as a community engagement agent, provide oversight and training and guidance to the broader extension program. I also provide support for special county initiatives. The commercial horticulture agent, I can't see anything. I gotta grab my glasses. The commercial horticulture agent offers training and educational programs that provide licensure, classes, and continuing education for those in the nursery, greenhouse, and landscape industries. The natural resource and sea grant agent lead innovative natural resource education and community engagement programs that improve water quality, create wildlife habitat, and build environmental stewardship across Pinellas County. The urban horticulture agent provides programs that empower residents and train volunteers to enhance urban landscapes, backyard food, and promote healthy gardening practices that serve, that save water and protect our environments. What we do, what we do directly relates to every priority in Pinellas County strategic plan. For instance, to support resilient infrastructure environment priority, our natural resource agent is working on the Tampa Bay Coastal Master Plan with the Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council. This is a regional effort identifying flood-vulnerable communities, prioritizing restoration and flood reduction projects, and guiding long-term adaptation strategies. And I, as a community engagement agent, lead the stormwater infrastructure program. This is an annual workshop that was requested and developed in collaboration with Public Works. It has reached over 700 floodplain managers, engineers, and urban planners to promote and the use of Pinellas County stormwater manual. To help create healthy and safe communities, our commercial horticulture agent works with Public Works to provide free training required by state for necessary certifications for their staff. We frequently work with mosquito control as well as stormwater and vegetation to provide pesticide arborist and state of Florida required green industry best management practices. This means that pesticides are applied safely, disease spreading insects are managed, and nutrients that contribute to algae blooms are reduced. Plus, these trainings have provided a savings to the county of $30,000. And additionally, there is over $1 million of increased wages to local professionals based on obtaining and maintaining these licenses. Moreover, increasing educational opportunities is the majority of what we do. Our urban horticulture agents programs contribute to the prosperity and opportunity of Pinellas County. These educational programs help keep our waterways clean by teaching citizens to use fewer fertilizers and pesticides in their landscapes. We want to highlight the Master Gardener program here because this greatly increases our reach and efforts. The Master Gardeners are highly and continuously trained trained volunteers who offer individual and group classes. In the past five years, Master Gardeners have taught over 650 events to over 13,000 participants on best lawn and garden management practices and contributed over 48,000 volunteer hours worth over $1.3 million in in-kind service. This includes over 9,000 hours in the Florida Botanical Gardens. Additionally, several Master Gardeners have gone on to horticulture careers. Four now work for Pinellas County Government. Furthermore, our 4-H Youth Development Agent works with the Youth Advisory Committee and other 4-H programs which offer hands-on educational and leadership opportunities to youth ages 5 to 18, empowering them to lead with confidence and serve their communities. Finally, all agents contribute to the smart service delivery by supporting several additional county departments including our home department parks and conservation resources, public works, utilities, human resources. These departments have all unique needs for our collaborations and trainings that we provide. Responding to public concerns surrounding glyphosate, the Parks Department requested Extension develop a vegetation management approach that would reduce the use of herbicides on public lands. We created a best management practice manual and conducted ongoing training for park rangers and other county and municipal staff. Plus, we use technology to make education accessible for all. Over the past five years, our Naturally Florida podcast has garnered over 9,000 listening hours and our YouTube channel has over 100,000 watch hours. Through these efforts, we proudly maintained a consistent customer satisfaction rate of 98%. Everything we do, everything we do supports the mission and priorities of Pinellas County's strategic plan. As boots on the ground, working with people in the field, we always put people first. We engage with a purpose and focus on results. We help you work smart and invest in your employees, and we want to continue doing this. We are an invaluable asset to Pinellas County government and the citizens we serve. Thank you. Thanks, JP. Questions? What was the amount that, you know, what's the leveraging that we're getting out of the University of Florida for this? How much the University of Florida is putting in? Yeah. It's somewhere in $500,000. And ours is about? $297,000. So if I did the math right and I saw somebody say it's about 33 cents per resident, our cost. What was the 297,000 divided by whatever number of residents that we have? One million. Cost of our participation is about 33 cents per resident. Over a five-year period. Over what? Five-year period. It's a five-year contract. These numbers that you're giving me are five years? Correct. Oh. So it's 297,000 over five years? Oh, no. It's 297 per year. That's the contract amount. Yes. Okay. That's not what our thing said. Excuse me, Commissioner. Your microphone. Yeah. It's 297 is the support per year plus office space. I read the other. Do you have any questions? No. Um, JP, I got a question. So I'm just reading through here the Youth Advisory Committee. Um, I'd love to, um, I don't think Commissioner Latval is, uh, on the call anymore, but I'd love to hear what he thinks about this. But it says here in this material that, um, the extension office is the liaison and coordinator of activities for, for, for, for YAC. Can you, can you talk about that a little bit? Sure. Um, we have, um, basically coordinate a lot of the, all the YAC meetings. We work in collaboration with one of the commissioners who is the, the lead, the commission in charge of it. Uh, but we put together all the meeting materials. We put together the, uh, organization of those meetings. We also work in their, uh, Robert's rules of order for the kids. So they have a better understanding and how to run a meeting and how to be professional and public speaking and all that good stuff. So we're integrating interweaving 4-H kind of, uh, curriculum into that, into that, um, program. And do you have any sense of how many, um, how many kids a year, YAC included in just, in general, that your, your program touches each year? I mean, how many, how many kids do you interact with that, that get exposed to, to this program? To the youth advisory committee? Well, to, to, to YAC, but also beyond that, just what the extension does in the community. Have programs for other kids. I mean, uh, this 4-H, okay. Yeah, we have 4-H clubs. Um, I believe we have 21 volunteers and about a hundred kids involved in 4-H currently. And those kids, they meet regularly. And I would like proudly say that we have an annual, I guess, uh, 4-H banquet where we have all these kids come in, they give presentations and they go to district and the state. Um, in the last couple of years, our kids are blue ribbon, have the most blue ribbons in the entire region. They're just outstanding. So. Is there a cost for these kids to participate in 4-H? No. So it's free. 4-H cost, uh, if club is $20 for them to participate. Annual cost? Annual cost, yes. In-school programs and other programs are free. Okay. Yeah. Any other thoughts, questions, Chris? No, I, I don't have any questions. I just, when you want to discuss it. Question? Yeah, cool. Okay. Thank you, Chair. Uh, when, when did the extent, maybe you said it, when did you start the UF extension program? Like, when did it start? Going back in the record books, um, in the UF IFAS archives, um, I found somebody back in 1925. I can't remember his name. I had it on the tip of my tongue a second ago, but it's, it's been a hundred years that we've had extension here in Pinellas County. I'm sure there was somebody before that, but I just spent in, uh, 40, 50 minutes in the UF IFAS archives. When it first started, not here in Pinellas, but when it first. No, there was a, there was an agent in 1925 here in Pinellas. Yes, sir. All right. Well, thank you. Gomes. I think his name was Gomes. Just one last question, because I want to make sure I'm clear. And sometimes you have to say this several times for me. So on the, I just want to make sure I'm clear on the dollar flow from what we're paying, what our costs are a year. Right. And what we're getting in benefits or salaries from the University of Florida. What's their piece on all of this service? So tell me, just trying to understand that, that company. Um, I, it's a 60, 40 split. So the, the county's, um, portion of is $297,000. Um, so the 60, 60% side of it, the University of Florida would be putting in somewhere around the neighborhood of $500,000. Actually, hold on one second. More question. That's not including like regional agents and other support staff that is in there. I think that comes out around $700,000. Uh, Vince, and then we'll go to Kathleen. Yeah. Commissioner Peters can go. Sure. So when, um, oh, I guess I finally found where I found that text. Um, so when you did the mosquito, was it mosquito petroleum control research for us? Is that what you said you did for us? Integrative vegetation management. It was for glyphosate. Okay. Roundup. The roundup issue. Yes. So, um, so that kind of research, when we ask you to go to the university and do research for us, whether it's stormwater, whether it's flooding, whether it's that, there are an additional cost to us. That's just part of this co-op. Correct. So we get the expertise of a university at our fingertips whenever we need it for whatever issue we need it for. Is that correct? Correct. That's what I thought. Okay. And, um, the master gardener program, I, uh, I got an email, which had amazing numbers in it. And there's an article on today's news clips that were mailed out to you. There's thousands and thousands of volunteer hours that we get. And, um, and as a result of that program, how many people are using Florida friendly landscaping as a result, and then using the water wise, cause you're the ones that help promote the water rise water wise, um, program that Tampa Bay water promotes and swift mud program promotes. Um, I know after this storm, the only thing I planted is Florida friendly. I never did that before, but now it's all Florida friendly. It doesn't matter if it's drought doesn't matter. You know, we don't have to use our water and water conservation is a really important thing for us for the future, because we believe we have enough water, I think into 2035, 2040. But once we get past 2040, we, we, we could have some real issues with fresh water, potable water. And so, um, that's why the master gardener program and the water wise program is so critically important, but otherwise having a university at our fingertips whenever we need it for whatever research we need to do it for is a huge asset that's been available, provided to us for many, many years. So, you know, I know we're looking at dollars and cents, but, um, there's a lot of sense in this partnership. Um, and so I just feel pretty strongly about keeping this partnership. There's a lot of, you know, you can look at pieces of papers and stuff like that, and it just doesn't drive down the value we get when we need the research when we need it, um, and have access to that kind of research when we need it. So that's just my thought. But the master gardeners program, I think is just, we don't have agriculture here. I know that I get that, but that program is huge. And the volunteers that come out of that program are huge. Some of them get jobs, but what they're doing to help our residents, um, with landscaping and how to do their own yards and beautification and how to garden, not many people, you know, this, not my generation, but the generation after mine, they, they never learned how to garden. They never, you know, that's not something they've been exposed to gardening. Um, and here's an opportunity for them to learn and numerous technology and tools to learn from. So thanks, JP. And I was the, the youth and government person for many years. And, uh, I couldn't have done it without the extensions. I could not have done it without, um, JP. And then, uh, was it Jennifer before you? I don't recall what her name was. My brain is tired, but, um, I, I could not have managed it without you guys. So, um, and those kids get a real quality experience as a result of the combination. And there were some things that the kids, we had two years, I think in a row where the kids wanted to do something very specific. And the H, uh, the four H curriculum was perfect to integrate into that, to give them what they needed. So it was a whole nother resource that we're able to use with a curriculum that was scientifically based. Um, and you know, a blueprint model with four H. So it's, it's a resource until you use it. You don't realize how valuable it is. Thank you, commissioner. May I just add that water conservation is hugely important, but also the judicious use of fertilizers and application of pesticides that all of the agents provide that education to citizens as well as industry to make sure that our waterways stay clean and clear and our tourism industry stays robust. Question for JP. So I'm just reading through some of the material here. So you have a partnership with Pinellas County employee wellness program, and you provide five to six programs per year for county employees. Can you talk about that a little bit? And how many, how many employees do we go through that? That the human resources reached out to my um, urban horticulture agent to provide that for, uh, the county staff as a gardening exercise for folks? Um, I don't know. I don't have off hand how many folks have gone through that program, but I know we give it four or five, six times a year, and it's very popular. Um, everybody enjoys it. I can get you that information still going on to the, it's still going on today. And we do. Okay. Very popular. If you could get that, I'd be curious just to, will do. Thank you. Any questions? Yes. Uh, thank you, chair. Um, you know, I, I've been working on this and looking at it for a few weeks since I brought it up. Um, and I just like on, on the initiatives that I look at, I see one is, has to do with agricultural business competitiveness. I don't think we need that, uh, improving family health. You know, we have Pinellas health, we have Evra, we have schools, we have human services department, strengthening our, uh, economic development of the county. Um, you know, we have Pinellas County economic development people. We have, uh, 10 chambers of commerce, uh, and then, uh, creating urban suburban communities. I mean, we're, you know, we're, we're done, you know, we're built out. So I see four of these initiatives are not even applicable with Pinellas County. And then when I look at water quality, conservation, education, marine, coastal fisheries, and stormwater programs, I see FDEP. I see the U.S. Department of Environmental Protection. I see public county, uh, public Pinellas County and public works. We have our own resilience and asset management programs. Uh, we have a utility department, which, uh, you go into our utility department or the city of Largo utility department, wherever you go, utility department, all you see are pamphlets about how to save water, how, how, what kind of plants to grow in your backyard. We have Tampa Bay water, we have NOAA, we have the Army Corps Engineers, we have SWIFT MUD, Tampa Bay Watch, Tampa Bay Regional Planning. I mean, it just goes on and on. The number of the organizations that are involved in water quality conservation, marine and coastal stormwater issues. I think that that's enough. Um, and, but I do like the 4-H and I have gotten many, many, many emails concerning the Master Garden program and how important it is and how they take care of the botanical gardens. And I, I do like those programs. So, you know, my, my recommendation is we don't need all this and I'd like to see us to continue to provide space to the UF offices, but to cut our funding subsidy down to something reasonable that would keep 4-H and the Master Garden going. And I, I think $100,000 total would do that. And we could save $200,000 for our taxpayers. That's how I feel about it. Question. Have you looked at the line item budget of theirs that when you say you want to cut it down to $100,000, you know what you're cutting out? Because I haven't looked at their budget to take a random number and say $100,000. What is, what gets eliminated if you move it to $100,000? So I was specifically just looking to say to keep 4-H and to keep the garden programs. And I just looked at our contribution to, uh, the 4-H is $42,600. And our contribution to Master Garden agent is $50,000. But if we eliminate, if we do that, do we lose the partnership and the co-op with the university? So therefore we lose our ability to have immediate research at our fingertips if we need it for whatever it is that we need. We've used it before in the past that does, I'm sure we're going to use it again. So if we were to cut the funding and it's no longer that, that partnership, um, agreement. So I, we've already budgeted for this year. So, um, it's already in the budget for this year. So what I would like to see, and I, I have a problem when we do this at the last minute when it's coming up to vote, that this is stuff that should be decided way before when we do our budget. Like this should be done then. Um, we shouldn't be, in my opinion, be picking them at the time when they come up, um, especially since it's already been budgeted for. So, so what I would like to see is to really analyze the program and, and see what's going to happen. Cause if we cut it to, um, the price you say, do we lose the partnership with the university and what's the value of that partnership? Because you're not, you need to just look at programs. You're not looking at the whole, then you're not seeing the whole picture and what's the value. So I would want to talk to Kelly and I would want to talk to Paul Cozzi, um, to see the value and Tampa Bay water kind of manages, uh, water wise program, but, but they don't do it like they do it right. They count on the extension to expedite it and put it through. And Barry's not here, but I asked Barry that if we did any new development that we required a new development, Tom, and I don't know if we went anywhere with this, that any new development would implement water wise programs. So they would have landscaping would have the drip system, right? The, the internal plumbing stuff would be all in the water wise program. And I don't think we ever went anywhere with that and made it official. Um, you know, if we were doing stuff like that, I would say, no, you're right. The County's taking it on, but right now nobody's really doing it except them. And so, yeah, we have Tampa Bay water and they do some stuff on it, but they aren't doing the same thing. Right. And, and if, if, if we've instituted in our policy, like I had asked, I think two, it was two years ago, cause I wasn't on Tampa Bay water last year. So it was two years ago. I asked Barry, if we could initiate that in our plans for any new building and even redevelop stuff, anything new that they would have to then use the water wise framework for anything new. And that can give us long-term sustainability on our potable water, um, and save us on our reclaim water. So if we institute policies like that, then I completely understand this. The only thing I wouldn't want to risk is that accessibility to university of Florida and the research that comes from the university of Florida and what the value is of that. So, so if we put this on that list of things to look into, I think next year is the time to do this. Not, not just Jerry, just randomly picking something that's coming up and saying, oh, I don't like that. We're going to get rid of it when we've already budgeted for it. And you know, we, we did it with creative panels right at the end there. And I think it's just bad practice. I think you put it in the front, just like we're doing, we're preparing for what we want to study. He wants to know what programs automatically get renewed. This would fall into that. We can analyze those when we get that. And that to me is the time to, to do this not. And I get what you're saying and I understand it. And I love that you're looking into the stuff like you're looking into, but I wouldn't want to just cut something and not know the value of what we just cut. And so until we talk to Paul Kazi and until we talk to Kelly and we really find out what that access to research means to us, what the value of that means to us, it's not just programs. It's, it's, it's bigger than that. And so that's, I'm going to get off my soapbox, but thanks. Just, just a couple main, just a couple of things. First of all, this came up because this is not just in the budget. This is in the budget for the next five years. And we won't see this contract again for five more years because it'll go away and then we, it'll just be in the overall budget. And then I'm unaware of anything in the agreement that says, oh, we call them and ask them the research for us and they'll do it for free. I don't know of anything in there. I just asked that question. So anything? Yeah, we're a collaborative, we're a collaborative partnership. We're part of the county and we're part of the University of Florida. So when you ask us to bring somebody down to look at forest issues and, and fire or infrastructure, I'm bringing down two, uh, uh, specialists, one, um, engineer and another water specialist to do our green infrastructure program next week. So we're bringing down specialists and they're doing it all for free. I think we have a lot of specialists working on this kind of stuff. Yeah. But we can also amend the emotion to do a one-year contract and not a five-year contract. And that gives us time to really research it. So, so that's kind of where I'm going with it. I just think it's, it's, I don't want to do something that's short-sighted without knowing. And if we know the history or the value from Kelly and the value from Paul, um, and even, well, Paul's here. Great. Good afternoon, commissioners. Paul Cozzi, Parks and Conservation Research, Resources Director. Um, one of the things I wanted to point out is the MOU and the affirmation letter are two different things. There is a non-funding clause within the agreement. So, um, each year the affirmation letter is approved. So if you want to change the menu of services or things like that, um, you can do that as, as part of the budget. And then we, we adjust the affirmation letter. So yes, sir. Well, and that's good to know. And Paul, have you ever used UF for research through the extension? Yes. Um, quite a few times, uh, more recently when we've had issues out at the preserves where, uh, the department for example, has been accused of, uh, improper best management practices with the preserve. Um, we had the, um, forestry department, the head of the forestry department came out, did a tour with us. Um, this was about a year and a half ago that shared the report that he put together very extensive that clarified that what we're doing out in the preserve, our best management practices. We had a similar issue a few years ago, uh, when we started the fecon mulching in the parks, people were accusing us of killing the wildlife and destroying the environment and all of these things. And so we went to the experts in forest management, um, you know, and we learned some things that helped us, but also helped us educate the public. Um, you know, four years ago when the whole roundup glyphosate issue, um, you know, uh, county administrator and the county manager in Dunedin said, we have to get ahead of this. Um, the expertise we got for that to develop the integrated vegetation management program came from our collaboration with scientists, researchers at the University of Florida. So those are a few examples. Thank you, Paul. Vince, you have a question? Thank you, Chair. Um, JP, just, just real quick, uh, two things. You mentioned something about green infrastructure, um, with two consultants coming down. Was that green infrastructure for here? Correct. You have a, uh, Pinellas County stormwater manual that was created, um, to help initiate the revitalization of existing properties that don't necessarily or did not have stormwater meet storm. There was no stormwater regulations back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. So, uh, the stormwater manual provides developers to redevelop those properties, more flexibility. Um, a previous county assistant county administrator, um, Raheem, I can't remember his last name now. Uh, but he came to me and approached me and said, hey, how can you promote this, JP? Um, so we put together the green infrastructure workshop in collaboration with public works to help promote and educate the builders, developers, floodplain managers on different ways to actually meet floodplain, um, floodplain, uh, stormwater management regulations. Awesome. Thank you. Um, and then I don't know if it's been asked or maybe I missed it, but does the university have an unwillingness to continue this partnership if we only fund $100,000 of it? I can't answer that question. That would be administration and, and UF up at the, up in Gainesville. I who would, do you have a specific name or number? I mean, can you get us that information or I can, I can work with you on that one. Yes. Okay. Cause I think that's like the big point here today. Like we're talking about not continuing this partnership, but we don't even know UF standpoint, you know, cause I think it originally came up commissioner Shears that you mentioned, which caught my attention that UF has a bigger budget than we do. Uh, and so, I mean, maybe they'll say, yeah, sure. We'll pick up the slack. If you guys can only do a hundred thousand, maybe, maybe they'll say, yeah, sure. We'll, we'll cover the difference. So I guess I'd like to know that. Um, well, we can follow up on that question, uh, but we don't have a consensus yet of severing that relationship. So we need a consensus before we ask the university. No, we'll ask the question. Okay. But we won't send that intent. Yeah. Just to know before we make it. Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. We'll follow up on that. Maybe change some folks' minds or provide more color. Yes, sir. Thank you. All right. I'll go. I think I'm not sure who had the light on first. No, I'm not. I don't really want to get into a lot of details. Commissioner Peters, um, kind of reflected my thoughts. I'm, I'm, there's an awful lot of positive energy and how you put dollars and cents on that. I'm not sure that comes from this program, whether it's, you know, folks that are learning how to garden for the first time or kids that are doing their thing or HOAs throughout the county that need help. Um, I, I think that's a, you know, a pretty valuable service to have here. It kind of cuts through on the character and culture of our community that, I don't know, has become part of it. I mean, you know, the gardens have become part of it. The gardens are a physical asset. I get it, but it become part of our community heritage village, another part of our community, the dollars and cents involved in all of those things. I don't know if you can justify each dollar all the time, but I think these are critical parts of what make, um, our county, uh, unique in some ways and special in other ways, uh, that the cost that we're charging, uh, each resident, so to speak, for the use of this service and the access to University of Florida to me is invaluable. Uh, in some ways that maybe we don't even know yet. Um, so I'm not interested in, in cutting a program this year at all. Uh, I would like to see it in play and, and maybe I'll do a little bit more exploration on the, on the fly just to make sure the things that I perceive and feel and hear about consistently from a lot of people, um, is truly validated. So I'll try to make that a more of a priority of my own, but this is, this is, this has got a lot of good stuff in it and I hate to let, let it go. It's been here with us for a long time. Doesn't always make it right. In this case, I think it does. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, uh, UF IFAS also is a large partner with the Florida Association of Counting and we know we just went through some leadership changes through IFAS and I will tell you, and this is, this is going to go towards the whether or not UF would do something and not have a true collaborative partner. Partnership means that you're putting something in it, not that they're bringing something to the table and we're just kind of here, but I will tell you that it was, it took a lot of dialogue and conversations for us to be able with the new leadership at the college to be able to keep IFAS as a part of FAC, um, because they were providing a larger part of the financial remuneration for the IFAS services through FAC than we were, than FAC was. Um, and so we were able to kind of turn that around. Um, but it, it took almost a year to renegotiate that. So I'm just sharing that when you're talking about the dollar. So in the short answer to, will they just continue to provide the services? I can pretty much tell you, no, you're going to have to pay for it. Instead of it becoming a part of a package, you'll have to pay for it individually. And because they are a research known facility, we will be paying top dollar for any of that research. So I'm just sharing that based on my other life. Um, but in, in, I completely agree with everything that Commissioner Peters has said, but when you look at all the things that we get as a part of, um, our relationship, um, you can count Boyd Hill. You can count the biological controls, um, to pull back the Brazilian peppers that are an invasive species. They, um, assist us with the health of our waterways. Um, certainly our parks, um, our preserve areas, Gladys Dougman and, um, Gladys Douglas and others. Sorry it's getting late. Um, they also, uh, uh, uh, provided a lot of good information to safety Harbor for the title creeks, um, and what they do to our community, runoff, sewer overload, um, natural shorelines, which is what we're looking at to assist us with hurricanes and things coming up. What can we do rather than just keep putting sand on beaches that keeps eroding away? What can we do with the natural shorelines that will help, um, protect those properties, um, along our, our beaches, storm drain issues, um, retention pond issues, which every time we build a structure, it depending on where they are, there has to be a retention pond. And then what happens in the cleanup of those. And we know what happens when they are overgrown. And then the fight comes with the residents who's responsible for paying for, um, taking care of those. Um, not to mention all of the other, um, items that have already been discussed. Um, sometimes, and, and this may not come out right. So let me apologize if I say it to hurt anyone's feelings. That's not my intention. But sometimes just because you can do it doesn't mean that you do it. We receive out of this partnership, in my opinion, a lot more than what we pay into it. When you are looking at, um, experts in their area, we don't, we within the county, we don't hire that kind of expertise. We hire persons who may have, um, knowledge in stormwater, sewer parks, and things like that. But experts to this level, we don't. We also have issues with red tide. We get our support and assistance, not just from University of Florida and Eckerd College, but we also get it from IFAS. So, um, I support the relationship. I see the focus and value on the relationship. I see where it is that we're trying to go as a county and as a state. And while we don't have huge farm communities, we do have people that are getting back into the agricultural piece of it because of dietary restrictions, um, because they just want to be healthier. Um, and so we do have pockets within our own communities that have gardens. I know in St. Petersburg and Pinellas Park and Largo and other places, they have community gardens and persons actually get their produce and fruits and stuff from those community gardens. And I was kind of supports and works with them on that. Um, so those are all my reasons for, I support them staying. I do appreciate, I appreciate any time that we're looking at where can we save money. But I think if you divide the 297,000 into the 680, I'm sorry, the 987,000 residents that we have, it's not a, you know, any savings is a good savings, but it's not a huge savings. Um, so I, I support you guys. I support the relationship. I see the quality, um, and the quantity that you all bring. And again, just being a part of the leadership in FAC, and being able to communicate with the top leadership of University of Florida, um, since they changed presidents and all of that, um, they are really paring down what they do for, um, support at no charge. I guess that's what I want to say. So I would not want to lose that relationship. So that's me. And Mr. Chair, if I could offer up, just as to the decision that you all have, um, on the agenda for next week, the agreement does specifically state, it's got your standard fiscal non-funding language in it. Um, and it specifically provides that if funds are not approved for the agreement, that it will end on September 30th of the last fiscal year for which funds are allocated. So if you all decide not to fund this in fiscal year 27, it would end on September 30th of next year. And that, and that's standard language that you have in all your contracts, but it is very specific in here at section 5.9. Thank you very much, Joel. Anything else? Uh, thank you so much, JP. Just, uh, just reading through some more material here. Um, it looks like that, uh, we've had 133 of our park rangers that have gone through IFAS training programs as well. Probably more than that, but yes, a lot. Right. All right. Um, unless there's no other questions or comments. Well, this list is on our, uh, it's on our agenda for Tuesday. No, ma'am. I don't. Thank you for asking. We'll ask the question and we'll provide that answer to you in advance of the vote. Well, good discussion. I'm glad we have the discussion, uh, because I didn't really know much about this. So I, this is, I think it's been a good education for all of us. So I appreciate it being brought up, but I, I'm very supportive of comments from, from Renee, Dave, and Kathleen as well. I think, I think we're getting good value for it. So, all right, JP, thank you very much. Thank you, Paul. Well, I think that brings us to the end of our agenda. Mr. Chair, for my, uh, reminder tomorrow morning, 9 30 joint delegation meeting at the St. Pete Marriott. Thank you, sir. Appreciate that very much. I will be there, but I'm going to need to slide out for about 30 minutes because I have an executive call about the property tax movement for the various committees that have been meeting up there. I've sent you all an email that shows that breakdown. So we'll be meeting to try to strategize on that. And Commissioner Eggers, you are correct. There is no plan from the governor's office about how to replace those dollars. But those of us that are trying to provide a plan that, you know. Oh, and also, uh, before I forget, I want like to thank our deputies, uh, Deputy Clyde Thornton, Mike Winnick, and Kevin McSweeney. Thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate it very much. Thank you, everybody. And with that, we are adjourned. Everybody have a nice weekend.