Board of County Commissioners on 2026-11-10 9:00 AM - Nov 10, 2026

Thank you for joining us. This is our November 10th, 2026 Board of County Commission meetings. We are delighted that you've joined us this morning. Please join us for an invocation by Pastor Jim Harp, followed by the Pledge of Allegiance, which will be led by Michael Rykowski. Good morning. Thank you for the privilege of being able to pray this morning. Our Father, we come before you today and we thank you, God, for your goodness and your grace and your mercy. Thank you for this beautiful day. Lord, the sun is shining and Lord, we just thank you so much for your care for us, how you love us. Lord, as I pray to open these services, to bring an invocation, Lord, it's not to ask you to be here, it's to acknowledge your presence. And Lord, I just always want to magnify who you are. And David, King David, wrote all the Psalms, Lord, based about his relationship with you. And this morning, I just want to share from Psalm 93, read back to you, your word. The Lord reigns. He is robed in majesty. The Lord is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world is firmly established. It cannot be moved. Your throne, O God, was established long ago. You are from all eternity. The seas have lifted up, O Lord. The seas have lifted up their voice. The seas have lifted up their pounding waves, mightier than the thunder of the great waves, mightier than the breakers of the sea. The Lord on high is mighty. Your statutes stand firm. Holiness adorns your throne for endless days, O Lord. You are holy and you're here. And God, as I usually do, I ask you to be with every aspect of this meeting, the decisions that are made. Thank you for the proclamations and presentations that are being made today. Lord, may you be lifted up in all of those. And I pray also for these that you have placed in leadership over our county, Lord, to rule and make decisions and to work to make our lives better here in Martin County. So I thank you for all these things. And I just pray this in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Is Mr. Rykowski here? Good morning. You're going to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. Thank you. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Would you like to tell us a bit about your service, sir? Well, thank you. I've lived here in Martin County for 15 years. I retired early. I joined the Navy at age 17. I didn't have a lot of interest in going to college at the time. And I did my time in the service. I was a submariner and a special operations individual and did two tours in Vietnam with support for UDT and SEAL team. I got out of the service and I went to school at night on the GI Bill. I worked for a major utility in the Northeast. I retired after 40 years. I was a senior research and testing engineer. I had a consulting company for 20 years. And after that, I put my three children through universities. And that was it. I was done. And it was time to come to Florida. Now, I don't know if that's good or bad these days, but it seems to be paying off quite well. It's a great county. And I am accepting this award. I'm the vice president of the Chapter 1041 of Vietnam Veterans of America here. And this proclamation I'm accepting, not for myself, but for my fellows that are here today and past. And I appreciate it very much for our recognition. Thank you. We'll bring you up again, sir. Thank you. Our agenda today consists of a number of presets. At 9.05, we'll hear from the public at 10.30. We will have a quiet zone update. At 1.30, we're going to have an update on flooding. At 5.05, or at the conclusion of our meeting, we're going to have public comment again. There are no additional items today. There's one request to withdraw. That's Department 6, which is a request to accept the donation of a 129.75-acre environmental parcel and amend the deed of a conservation easement for new field open space. And there are no agenda items removed from the consent agenda. Is there a motion to approve the agenda? I'll move approval of the agenda with a request to withdraw Departmental No. 6. Second. There's a motion and a second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? That motion passes unanimously. We'll now take up proclamations. The first proclamation is a proclamation declaring Veterans Day in Martin County, Florida. Good morning, commissioners. For more than 200 years, individuals from all walks of life have taken up arms and sworn an oath to support and defend the principles upon which our country was founded. The contributions and sacrifices of the men and women who served in the Armed Forces have been vital in maintaining the freedom and way of life enjoyed by the people of the United States. In recognition of Veterans Day, which is observed November 11th, the Board calls upon all citizens to honor the contributions of current and former members of the U.S. Armed Forces. And here to accept, once again, we have Michael Rykowski, Navy veteran. Michael Rykowski, Army veteran. Again, thank you on behalf of the Chapter 1041 Vietnam Veterans of America. I gladly accept this, again, not for myself but for my fellow veterans. We still organize things and do a lot of charitable things within the county, as you'll see us around sometimes at events seeking donations but it all goes into veterans that's what we do that's our that's our game as they say so again we appreciate this very much we'll hang it on our wall and uh again thank you very much our next proclamation is a proclamation recognizing mrs universe's women in leadership and service month in martin county florida women throughout martin county serve in leadership roles across public service business education non-profit organizations advocacy and civic life making contributions that strengthen families and enhance the quality of life for residents the mrs universe organization maintains a strong presence in the county contributing to charitable initiatives and service-oriented efforts and inclusive community programs that foster meaningful participation in community life the board recognizes the mrs universe organization in its commitment to promoting women's leadership mentorship civic engagement humanitarian service and community involvement and here we have to accept mrs universe kelly lightbourne esquire i don't know how to top that because i think you completely summed it up um but i do want to um thank you for acknowledging all of martin county and the people that make it special you know you don't have to have a title to lead i may stand here as mrs universe um but i'm in a county where my husband sean in the back and i have come home to raise our children and i think that says it all because i can tell you leadership isn't about a crown or a title or a seat it's about showing up and keeping your word and and a promise because in martin county our word is our bond right um and so my son has special needs um and he has taught me so much about what it means to give unconditionally um and i think one of the biggest lessons that he taught me was actually about advocacy and i think people don't realize but advocacy is really just love with your sleeves rolled up can you guys agree with that it really is um and so it's about showing up it's about giving when you expect nothing in return and it's about not quitting when it gets tough um and i know there are people in martin county that i know that do this quietly without any recognition every day and i'm sure there are people that you know that give back and they expect nothing in return not even a thank you and that's to me the real power of giving and i think that's why i'm really excited um to receive this proclamation because it's not just about a month of giving back so i get to announce today that we are actually launching a year-long program with the mrs universe organization and it's going to be called the mrs universe leadership and community service awards and it's going to honor women men um organizations that really make a difference right here in martin county and what i love about it is it's like i said it's not a one-time thing it is going to be monthly you can nominate people um and we're going to give a lot of money back to martin county thanks to our incredible sponsor floridapool.com and that's what's really exciting about this is this is a gift this is a proclamation that is going to continue to give um so it's not just about honoring service it's about investing in the people and the causes that make martin county stronger um and it's really about keeping the spirit of giving alive all year round so i'm excited to announce that on december 1st you can go to the mrs universe awards.com and you can nominate somebody and when i say nominate somebody it doesn't have to be huge it can be just somebody that really inspires you that makes a difference the neighbor that you know when your husband broke his leg came and brought you food those are the stories that we want to honor in our community because these acts don't have to be huge they can be huge don't get me wrong we like huge acts but they can be small too they can be the simple things they can be a compliment and so i kind of want to leave with just kind of an ask of everybody today can you do one thing call one person tell them you appreciate them that's what giving back is about it's about these single acts these ripple effects they don't have to be huge they can be small and so that's what this proclamation means to me so thank you so much because service starts small but it grows big our next proclamation is a proclamation declaring alzheimer's disease awareness month in martin county florida in the united states there are over 7.4 million reported cases of alzheimer's disease and in florida approximately 580 000 people aged 65 and older are living with alzheimer's disease it is critical that alzheimer's families coping with the disease are safe with well-being dignity and quality of life preserved through services and resources accessible to all the board urges the citizens of martin county to learn more about alzheimer's disease attend educational events and seek out help and local drug trials during alzheimer's disease awareness month and here to accept we have david dangerfield with alzheimer's community care my name is david dangerfield and i'm a board member of alzheimer's community care thank you the chair as well all to all the board members uh today for declaring november the alzheimer's public awareness month and valuing our work and our mission there are approximately in martin county 6 500 persons in all probability have alzheimer's alzheimer's community care celebrates 30 years this year as we continue to offer help and hope in south florida in palm beach martin and st lucie counties with and martin county with a specialized adult day center and a family navigation services we pledge that our families coping with the disease are safe with well-being dignity and quality of life preserved through a combination of services accessible to all your recognition of our cause through this november 26 public awareness proclamation demonstrates your concern for the most vulnerable and the fragile persons in our in our community here today those that are dealing with alzheimer's i've left a brochure for each of you about our uh about our uh services that we offer we have a day center right on us one uh just north of the roosevelt bridge and we also have uh navigation services as well as uh the uh i don't want to say ankle bracelets but uh uh also watches and so forth to be able to track people who who walk and oftentimes alzheimer's patients will walk from their house so their spouse can't go to the store without them those kinds of things can't go to lunch with somebody and that's what our services are all about it's not only for the patient but also for their family so thank you very much for this proclamation we appreciate it senior day he used to go to the gym with me pastor dave nice guy and our next proclamation is a proclamation celebrating florida history and heritage month through land remembered in martin county florida a land remembered has become an enduring part of florida's cultural heritage inviting readers to consider the people landscapes traditions challenges and changes that shaped florida and reminding us that understanding where we came from helps us appreciate the place we call home in celebrating florida history and heritage month martin county recognizes the importance of preserving and sharing the stories of its past providing cultural and educational experiences for its residents and encouraging each generation to remember and appreciate the heritage that gives a community its sense of place and here to accept from the historical society of martin county is rob steel rob steel and linda prant so good morning everyone and i want to start with a question how many people in this room have read the book a land remembered show of hands that is impressive that's amazing we love to do exhibits with a pre-built in audience so when i see that that many hands in a room i believe that it'll be a great success we're working as hard as we possibly can to do true honor to this book that is a part of so many lives and hearts in the state of florida it really is a piece of history it helps ratify our role as the historical society of martin county and we can do no better than to honor what we've been charged with doing we're very excited to know that this book is still actively taught in the schools throughout florida so hopefully we'll have the pitter patter of little feet coming through as we bring the kids from the schools to enjoy the exhibits we're dedicating 4 000 square feet of the elliott museum to this exhibit there will be a hurricane simulator so you can go inside 78 mile an hour winds better to do it at the museum than at home so stop in and enjoy it there you can ride the horse ishmael there will be so many things to do over 80 pieces of art honoring the cracker heritage over 100 artifacts and there are so many people involved it's just incredible on december 2nd the exhibit opens to the public and on that night rick smith the son of patrick d smith will be giving a lecture that night so lots of exciting things going on and it's it's good for us to get back to the heart and soul of what a historical society is thank you so much for this proclamation and for your support throughout the years thanks everyone nice job and today is a special day it's commissioner heatherington's last meeting so the county would like to present her with a plaque and maybe a gift good morning thank you commissioners and you know a day of celebration you know we don't always get to pick pick the days you know obviously there's a lot on the agenda but we do have the time to take to celebrate uh one of our own and that's uh commissioner stacy heatherton of uh district two you know a lifelong uh martin county uh resident uh generational and we're certainly happy to have uh connie and ed her parents are here and her now adult children uh zane and van you know who who off had the opportunity to grow up with us here which is a really cool to see um anyway celebrating eight years of service to martin county uh she's dedicated years to strengthening martin county's economic viability and protecting our local governments and occasion occasionally prodding the county administrator to improve our contracts and other things related to our our uh our industries uh professional organizations that she's helped us out greatly with florida shore and beach preservation association associated general contractors florida marine contractors association florida transportation builders association and local chambers of commerce a strong advocate for our community and uh and our business to strengthen our economy commissioner heatherton leads lends her expertise to local non-profit agencies and associations to bring resources to those in need and build a stronger community and um it's with great pleasure for us to end sadness to see you uh go back into the private sector and do the things you're so good at but we really appreciate all that you've done for martin county uh we're better off for having you it's a sad day for us to see you go it's just part of the political process but again thank you for your service we have a plaque here and then we have a couple of gifts for you if you could bring them up as as commissioner heatherton comes up so we we thought we'd grab a couple of images so we have a state of the county address and one of my favorite state of the county addresses is a commissioner heatherton riding up on a horse to deliver us the the good news of what we have accomplished so i thought in remembrance of that uh your experience and you're uh leading us uh through so many years um thank you and uh something to remember us by maybe more than just a plaque that gets dusty in the corner so thank you talk before stacy i don't know i have to go back there because my notes are back there okay well let's get a picture of you real quick with a plaque and then you get to have patty have patty hold one yeah that's okay patty come on patty you're all dressed up let's go you look beautiful stacy you want a picture with your family thank you all right you all know me to be very brief but i i did write a couple um people to thank because i didn't want to miss anybody and before i say anything about my time as commission here i want to take a moment to recognize um some of the martin county residents who i know have been impacted recently by the flooding i know there are many of you in this room today whose lives have been affected and turned upside down and there's worry and frustration and uncertainty and i want to say that my heart is with you my prayers have been with you every day i also recognize you're not here today to hear farewell speeches you're here because you're hurting and you need answers and you need help and you deserve to be heard well today happens to be my last commission meeting with eight years of service i don't want it to be about me i want it to be about the people in our community which is the reason that i embarked on this public service to begin with the people of our community are often facing hardships quality of life issues homelessness and i know that that um the county and the public servants that you have are here to assist you i hope that our county will continue to work towards solutions communicating openly and working with those of you in the community to address those concerns for me public service has always been about um serving you in the community and today i remember that's why it matters so with that i'll just thank a couple people and i'll keep it brief and serving has been truly one of the greatest honors of my life the last eight years uh never thought and i'm sure that my parents never thought their daughter would be uh from indiantown would be sitting up here on the board of county commissioners as a fourth generation martin county native i ran for office eight years ago because i love this community i love martin county i grew up here i went through all public schools here and i did say that i would never come back when i when went away went away to college but look where i am so um i knew martin county's history i understood the character and i wanted to play a part in protecting and improving the place that i call home these eight years have been an incredible experience both professionally and personally as dawn mentioned when i first took office those two young men um sitting in the front row they were little little tykes as a matter of fact i tried to recreate earlier the picture of zane and van and zane could barely see over the computer screen when i first took office now they're grown men and it reminds me just how quickly that the time goes i'm proud of what we have accomplished in district two and across martin county from district two addressing safety concerns along south river and st lucie boulevard to neighborhood improvements in golden gate to safety drainage and sewer enhancements in coral gardens these are the types of improvements that matter to people every day who live in these communities and i'm grateful to have had the opportunity to be part of that work i want to thank a couple more people um that have been there alongside of me so in golden gate cedilla safarides you've not only been there for my tenure but commissioners well before me you have a lifelong history of dedicating your time in golden gate and the community and i wanted to thank you for everything you will do and have done and i'll be continuing to work alongside you just from the other side of the dais to make sure that golden gate is represented and for all of your years of service we are we are honoring you with a sensory garden in golden gate and it's my goal and with my colleague's support to name that sensory garden the cedilla safarides sensory garden in um in gratitude for everything you've done so i appreciate you and i'll still be here working alongside you i want to also thank rob ranieri from house of hope he's done so much in the golden gate community to assist our residents and noel devalier from martin county powell when i first arrived in this district two seat they took me to port st lucie to look at a powell facility and that was good almost eight years ago now and they started these programs they had a small little boxing ring which sheriff snyder helped out with we're near west of old england and you've grown immensely i'm really proud that you're taking roots in the golden gate community and invested a lot of time and energy and look forward to seeing your projects move forward as well and i have to recognize she hates recognition and she likes to be behind the phones and behind the scenes but patricia higginbotham district 2 our district 2 commissioner aide she's hiding behind the wall but if any of you have ever called the office and we've had to address issues patricia is diligent she is humble she is compassionate and she is very thorough and i think the people of district 2 are very grateful to have patricia and i am grateful to have worked with you the last five years and i'll miss working with you so i want to thank my family my sons van and zane for tolerating me being in public service and supporting me along the way my parents ed and connie whitaker um although dad doesn't have social media mom does so they get they get to uh live this um public service all the good bad and indifference so thank you for your love your patience your support and public service is a commitment that affects the entire family and i couldn't have done it without the four of you so thank you and i love you to my friends i see some of them in the room thank you for standing by me especially when decisions are not popular i know some of you have taken your fair share of criticism just for supporting me and i appreciate your loyalty more than you know and i appreciate you being here and um yes i might have a little more free time um after next week to our county staff i've developed so many tremendous relationships and that's one of the things i will miss the most about um not serving district 2 is the the most about um of your relationships with our staff um i respect so many of our staff and appreciate your dedication your professionalism and the work that you do every day many people in the community don't get to see how much uh professionalism and how much hard work goes into this county and i'll never forget the many people that dedicate their life working with this county and i will always value those relationships, being here with you all, and hopefully I'll continue to work with some of you. And my fellow commissioners, thank you very much. Sometimes we agree and sometimes we disagree, but we've always maintained a very cordial, collegial relationship. I've learned something from each and every one of you, and I've changed perspectives even over the last eight years by learning and growing with my colleagues. So thank you very much. It's been an honor to serve with you. I believe public service requires you to listen, and you have to make difficult decisions. And at the end of the day, you have to do genuinely what you feel is best and the best interest of your community, even when those decisions are not popular some days. As I move into the next chapter of my life, I do so with such a grateful heart and a sense of pride in my community and pride in the service that I've given. But more than anything today, I thought the work of this county is bigger than one commissioner. It's bigger than any election or any person's time in office. It's about the people of Martin County. It's about all of us that call Martin County home. So right now, people of this community need us. So I'm going to wrap up. I'll never lose sight of what this community needs. It was my home long before I ever held public office, and it will remain my home long after. So thank you to the community for allowing me to serve. It's been a true honor, pleasure for the last past eight years, and I look forward to serving alongside with you sitting on the other side of the dais. Thank you, and God bless. Mr. Campy. I'm a man of very few words. So let me just say that it's been an honor to serve next to Commissioner Hetherington these eight years. She has brought a remarkable talents and perspective to the job. As she mentioned, we don't necessarily agree on every single topic, but when we disagreed, we were still friends. So I will miss you. I think you've done a remarkable job, and I'd also like you did to thank your mom and dad and your sons, because any of us that know, the whole family's involved, and even if you can take the slings and arrows more so, it's always most difficult for the people that love you. So you're getting her back, reluctantly. She's done a remarkable job for not just her district, but for the county, and I personally will certainly miss you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Stacy. Commissioner Hetherington, I would also like to thank you for your service on this board. I've learned a lot from you in my two years of service on the board, and when I was also preparing before I became elected. And what I appreciate most about you is your spirit of civility and decorum and your mutual respect for your colleagues and for the staff. We'll miss you, and we wish you and your family the very best. I know you'll do great things going forward. Thank you. Commissioner Vargas. Commissioner Hetherington, I've learned a lot from you being on this board, but also I appreciate your kindness to sit down with me as I was running for office and impart some information. I know this has enriched your life, this experience, as it's doing for me now in a very brief time. However, I would like to see you travel the world, as you said you wanted to do that, and even go further than where you are. And if you need any help on that, I'm the person for you to point you in the right direction. Okay? All right. Thank you. Now we're going to take a public comment. You will have three minutes to address us. The first request to speak form I have is from Noel Delala, followed by Mary Berner. Good morning, everybody. My name is Noel Delval, the executive director of the Martin County Police Athletic League, and I just really wanted to come up here to acknowledge Stacey Hetherington for all of her service and dedication to Martin County. Like Stacey said, we met almost nine years ago, and she actually ended up putting Stacey and Van into our leadership program. And since then, that leadership program has grown immensely from just a few kids to hundreds of kids per year, serving Martin County and, you know, impacting so many youth, creating a ripple effect through the county, through youth, through families, through communities. And I just really wanted to thank you for everything you've done, for your guidance and support. And I really want to thank the County commissioners as well for their support for Martin County Police Athletic League. Thank you. Thank you. Mary Berner is next, followed by Nicholas Berkley. My name is Mary Berner, and I have lived at 4236 Northeast High Line Drive for 40 years. 40 years. I've raised my family here, built my life here, and in the hours watched everything we work for become submerged in flood water and sewage. I couldn't sleep that night, watching water being pumped onto our street, fearing something terrible was coming. But my neighbors were sleeping unaware, including families with special needs children and nowhere else to go. And what makes this even more devastating is we warned you. In 2011, our neighborhood flooded. We raised concerns about drainage and water management. A former county commissioner even told us, and I quote, this would happen again. So why wasn't more done? Where were the safeguards? The warnings? Why wasn't our flood zone designation reassigned? Why continue approving development in wetlands? And when the water came, where was the county? I called 911 to get evacuated. No one came. I was told that rescuing me would mean rescuing everyone else. Everyone's flooding. Well, my daughter, calling from an Orlando highway, contacted Martin County firefighters, and they came with their high water trucks. Why didn't 911 connect me to that? Where is that communication breakdown? It's just, there was no warning, no communication. Had we known that the water was being pumped, directed towards our street, and we could have at least moved our cars to higher ground. We have literally lost everything in our home, our cars, every single thing. You had information, we didn't. You save home, you have homes, we do not. Now our homes face sewage contamination, and we still have no clear guidance. So please write these questions down. Are our homes safe? Who is assessing the contamination, and what happens next? Surely the answer cannot simply be to put lime on it, as we heard at the community meeting. I am not asking for sympathy. A little empathy would go a long way. I'm demanding accountability. We deserve an independent investigation into the drainage decisions made. We deserve that. We deserve immediate health guidance and meaningful assistance. We deserve that. We deserve communication timelines and continued advocacy for recovery sources beyond FEMA. We deserve that. Wouldn't your family deserve that? For 40 years, this community has been home. Today, I barely recognize it. Not because of the neighbors. We've all rallied around each other. We've had to create our own group chat to get any information from anyone. I barely recognize it because of the response of those entrusted to protect us. We are your constituents, too. And the only two words I have for this committee and the response we received are liars and deniers. We should not have to beg for answers or fight to be heard. High Line Drive matters. Tick Ridge matters. Savannah Road matters. We matter. We warned you. We needed you. And now you must answer for what happened. Shame. Shame on you. Nicholas Berkley is next, followed by Lisa French and Jeremy French. Okay. Good morning. My name is Nicholas Berkley. I live at 4180 Northeast Savannah Road. I've been here in Jensen Beach for 15 years. And to be honest, that's nothing compared to many of these people that are here today. But what I can say is I've never seen anything like this happen ever in the past in this time that I've lived here. In fact, I've never seen standing water in my property until 2021, which was after there was a weir installed along Jensen Beach Boulevard. So I just want to bring up a few points here that are extremely important. First and foremost, we know that this was an extraordinary storm. We had 12 inches of rain that came in about a day. The water became trapped and our pumping system was shut down. We've dealt with this water now for eight days. And it has been sitting there for this time, rotting, allowing mold to build in people's homes, allowing feces to collect from septic tanks that are overflowing. And nothing is being done until pretty much today. So the things here that I have to say is first off, we need answers about the downstream flow. Like we need to figure that out. That is a huge problem. There is development that has been installed along the Warner Creek, which has allowed for water to back up essentially into the savannahs. And then as I mentioned before, this weir that blocks the flow of water that's coming south from the savannahs, whether or not water was pumped out of Port St. Lucy, I'm not sure yet. Apparently it was. And that is something that we should also be addressing. But the concern that I have is that there are structures that were installed that essentially allow us to be able to flood in Jensen Beach in the northern savannah area, whether it's Tick Ridge or savannah heights or any of those neighborhoods along savannah road. So what I am concerned about here is this weir that has allowed this water to back up. And it has backed it up over 15 feet in elevation right into our homes, into their homes that have not seen water in them. The water has been in the streets, never inside of the homes. This weir allows the water to back up and essentially end up in the houses. The good thing is, is that we have a pump that is down at the bottom at the lowest point. That pump is supposed to bring water up to a pond that is off of Jensen Beach Boulevard behind the CVS. That pond was backed up and they had to turn off the pump as a result at about 530 on Monday night. That's when water began to rise. Water rose, it went into people's homes, destroyed everything for them. And that is a problem. That is a huge problem and we need answers about that. As far as I was mentioning before about the weir, I'm sorry I had my notes here and I wasn't quite ready to come up, but there were models that were put out that were passed through engineering that said that this weir was going to cause this in rain events and the county allowed this to be installed still. We need answers and we need solutions and we need them now. Not yesterday, not tomorrow, now. Thank you. Lisa French and Jeremy French followed by Alicia Dixon. Good morning. My name is Lisa French. I live in Skyline Heights with my husband and our two little boys, ages one and four. I'm here alongside my neighbors from Skyline Heights and Tick Ridge. On Monday, November 2nd, our family went for our daily walk in our rain jackets to see where Martin County was pumping. Our house was dry. It rained Monday night and then stopped. Tuesday, no rain. Highline was flooded on Monday. Highline was flooded. We took our kayaks out to photograph the flooding for our neighbors. My husband came home from the fire station worried about the rising water. Sewage became backing up in our bathtubs and our toilets. We evacuated. Our home still hadn't flooded. That night, I couldn't sleep. I emailed all five county commissioners, county and state officials, the governor in six news stations. Someone to help our neighbors for us to be heard. My home was still dry. Wednesdays, still no rain. Yet water began entering our home. My parents called Public Works and Commissioner Vargas while we tried to save our belongings. We went on the news. I spoke with the Deputy Director of Public Works. Multiple workers told us that St. Lucie pumping in the savannahs, that we weren't ready for it and to ask questions. Thursday and Friday, I watched helplessly as the water destroyed my home while the neighbor's house is filled with feet of water now. Public Works told us that Fort Pierce and Port St. Lucie had dumped into the savannahs. Who authorized this? Did the pumping contribute to our flooding? Where was your communication? We deserve an independent investigation. Our homes have sat in contaminated water for nearly a week. Are they even safe to enter? Who's going to test? What's next? Who's inspecting our homes for a demo? Many of us have no flood insurance. Our home sits approximately 20 feet above sea level. We never imagined flooding like this. How are we supposed to rebuild? We were told FEMA maybe give us 30 to 50,000. Is that true? If so, who will cover the remainder? Will it be St. Lucie County? Will it be Martin County? How are we going to go home? Today, we're homeless. We have nowhere to host Thanksgiving. We have nowhere for our boys to have Christmas. We don't have pets to come home to. Even our one and four-year-old boys feel that loss. We need immediate financial assistance, safe housing accountability, and a real recovery plan, not waiting weeks for you guys to help us. Please step up for our community, your community. Thank you. Thank you. Alicia Dixon is next, followed by, she's not here, John Gahan. Okay, I'll, yep. Yamila Roland Escalona, followed by Maureen Killian. My name is Yamila Rojan Escalona. I direct Yaya Por Vida. I'm here as a neighbor in solidarity for the community that we serve, and I am angry. When you don't see some of us in these seats, we're not absent. We're in your inboxes. We are out doing crisis response outside of these walls, doing the most with the least. Moving the way that elected officials should move, and then some. Some of my colleagues have worked with this board for over a decade, and some of you haven't even answered my emails in over a year. Last week, one in 1,000 year flood hit. Families who were safely housed woke up homeless. Some lost of what they had. Some lost everything. This disaster forced everyone to confront one of the many ways people become unhoused. Not drugs. Not laziness. Water. Rain. One storm. Not everyone has savings. Not everyone has insurance or family to turn to. And some neighbors are treated differently. Tick Ridge. A historic black American and Bahamian neighborhood inhabited and preserved for generations by majority black Americans. With a capital B. They still have not been properly mitigated. Standing water. No pumps. No headlines. Not a peep on social media and just one article in the news today. Katrina much? The water comes for everyone, but the rescue comes for some. If Tick Ridge were a golf course mitigation, what have already happened? What did this county do? Not one shelter open. Not a school. Not a church. Not a public building. FEMA still has not declared Martin County a disaster zone while neighboring counties responded immediately. Because I live in St. Lucie County. I know because we are a disaster hub. We are out there. We see who shows up. And the response that never stopped? ICE. In a declared state of emergency, the fastest emergency response to our unhoused neighbors experience was in immigration enforcement. Pensacola. Last month. Now Martin to Brevard. So here's the pattern. A black neighborhood gets no mitigation and no coverage. Unhoused families get no shelter. Enforcement moves faster than release. Whose emergencies count in Martin County? As a brown person, y'all show me exactly how y'all feel. Meanwhile, our already unhoused neighbors, which includes our veterans, lost a little they had left. Standing water is now a health threat. Exposure in a flood zone is not survival. It is slow harm. And now Amendment 3 shrinks county revenue. I know that you're about to stop me, but y'all gotta listen. Because if you haven't listened to me in the past year, you gotta listen to me now. Your people are out there about to die or dying. We need this shelter now. Now. Maureen Killian is next, followed by Kyle Pond. Good morning, chair and commissioners. My name is Maureen Killian. I've been here before. President of Southeast Florida Recovery Advocates. I'm a District 1 resident, constituent of Holly Creek, which was also flooded, and a mother whose son continues to fight for his long-term recovery every day. We experienced record rainfall. Yes, we did. The governor declared a state of emergency. Yes, he did. Days later, after the rain, homes in Jensen Beach were still filling with water. One week later, Martin County starts to show up. We have now learned this flooding was man-made. Five permitted sites north of Jensen Beach pumped storm waters into the savannas, overwhelming our county pump, which once became compromised and was not working as of Sunday. When Martin County became aware of this, why wasn't there an emergency alert system to alert all residents as we hear all the time for everything else? We could have left our homes and saved our cars. If house families are losing their homes, think about our neighbors who sleep outside with no door to lock and nowhere to go. Martin County still has no year-round emergency shelter. We've been asking since January of 2025. During this event, a veteran was actually discovered sleeping in six inches of water. He accepted support and has since been transitioned into a dry, secure bed. Every resident is your constituent, not just the housed. We measured this rain to the hundredth of an inch, but has anyone asked about our unhoused neighbors? Did they find dry ground or did they end up in jail, the one place in this county that always has a bed? If we can count rain, we can count our people. If no one here can answer that question, the people with the least are being represented the least. This is not a new request. Ten city helpers, Yaya, Purvita, Sefra, and our community members have asked at least eight times since January 2025 for a shelter and for housing in the budget. The answer has been no or not yet. This year, public safety and the sheriff together get $256 million. The housing division gets $146,000. Leaving one person on the street costs $31,000 a year in jail, emergency room, and hospital bills while housing that same person costs $10,000. Criminalizing addition has not worked and will not work. Housing is cheaper than jailing. We asked this board to set aside funds now for an emergency and year-round shelter. Put a shelter plan that meets House Bill 1365 on an agenda item. Adopt a severe weather plan that includes flood alerts. Ask the water management district to take control of per minute pumping into the savannas. Report how many unhoused people were reached during the storm and how many were arrested or trespassed. I was a stranger and you invited me in. Give our neighbors a front door, not a jail door. Thank you. Kyle Pond is next, followed by Jerry Aderman. Good morning. Good morning, Commissioners. My name is Kyle Pond and I live at 4195 Northeast Carroll Court. Like many of the residents here, I'm concerned about the flooding affecting the High Line and Drive area, Savannah Road, and Tick Ridge. We have been managing the effects of severe rain and flooding that has affected not just our neighborhood, but so many in Martin County and the Treasure Coast. I would like to thank Commissioner Vargas and Public Works Director Jim Gordon for attending a town hall meeting with us on Sunday. Jim did his best to field an overwhelming number of questions that Commissioner Vargas was unprepared to answer with facts and sound information. Many of these questions were outside his field of expertise and he remained calm and professional throughout. Commissioner Vargas, thank you for being there and as you pointed out multiple times taking time out of your Sunday to address our concerns. Concerns that we are dealing with 24-7 for the last week, not just during business hours. This emergency is severely impacting the way we live our life. It is an immediate health risk not just because of the contaminated water we expose to daily. Many do not have shelter. None of us can maintain personal hygiene. We cannot shower. We cannot do laundry. We cannot poop. My primary concern today is public safety and security. We currently have no less than 30 structures that are uninhabitable or safely accessible. We have had daily visitors and trespassers to our neighborhood. While most are benign media representatives, amateur photographers, or curious people, we cannot tell who may have nefarious intentions. More importantly, it is not our responsibility nor do we have the training and authority to approach strangers perusing our properties. I personally attempted to ask Commissioner Vargas about what communication she has had with the sheriff concerning safety and security and she was unable to take the question. Director Gordon did his best to field the question even though it does not fall within his area of expertise. He assured me that there was an increase in sheriff presence on nearby Skyline Drive but could not speak to the specifics of our affected streets. I followed up with the sheriff's department yesterday. Martin County Sheriff had no record of any directed patrols for the area of Highline Drive, Savannah Road, or Tick Ridge. Most of these homes are unoccupied and vulnerable. We have an expectation that you will direct the sheriff to ensure our properties are secure and our neighborhood is safe. We expect to see deputies patrolling our area regularly. Commissioners, we have been supporting each other for a full week and we will continue to do so for the coming months. We are here looking for you. We want to see our representatives. We expect collaboration between all departments. You deactivated your emergency operation center on Tuesday, November 3rd at 19.30 hours. We still had water rising at 19.30 hours on November 3rd. This emergency is not over and in fact it has barely begun. I do not expect you as commissioners to have all the answers. I do expect you to lead and direct coordination between departments. I do expect to hear from, I do expect you to hear from and respond to residents. I do expect you to make additional funds available to your staff today to mitigate this emergency as efficiently as possible. Thank you all for your time and expect to continue to hear from us. Thank you. Jeffrey Aderman is next, followed by David Cameron. Okay, thank you. David Cameron, followed by Doug Roberts. My name is David Cameron. I reside at 7004 Southwest Cinnamon Court in Stewart, Florida adjacent to the Stewart Yacht where you are proposing a land change regulation from residential to commercial. The boatyard that's there now has existed since 1967 or 68. It's now grandfathered in and can never be built again today. In 1968, Martin County had 27,000 people in it. Today we're pushing 170,000 people. That boatyard has existed because it was grandfathered in back at that time when the population out that way was nil compared to what it is today. Now they want to expand by purchasing homes on residential property, tearing these homes down and building a bigger boatyard, which should never happen. Our piece of life is guaranteed to us. The boatyard has increased already. Traffic on Salerno Road. Salerno Road is deteriorating and the noise coming from the boatyard now in existence is well excessive of what it was before these people bought it. To increase in the structure and the size of the boatyard would only continue to cause aggravation to the neighborhood and devalue property. As you well know, this is the quiet little corner of the world out there and the people that live there have spent a lot of money to buy the property and stay there. We don't want to see our area going shambles because of a boatyard that shouldn't be there to begin with. As you all know, as I said, if somebody wanted to build that boatyard in that area today, it would never happen. Never get a permit for it. So I don't see how you can possibly change the residential area to commercial knowing that fact. Thank you very kindly for your time, folks. Have a nice day. Thank you. Doug Roberts is next, followed by Julie Priest. Okay. I will call you up then. Julie Priest, followed by Sadia Sepharides. I'm a 48-year resident of District 1. I did have a prepared statement, but I would like to shorten it up based on all the folks that are here that have a much more important item to discuss. Commissioner Hetherington, we thank you for your support. As a former property owner in Golden Gate, many years ago, I have seen the transition your support has made to improve especially the Golden Gate area. And I thank all the board for supporting the CRA work. We have been working on stormwater too, as you know. Thank you. Thank you. Sadia Sepharides is next, followed by Mr. Endris. Do you want to speak now or on public hearing, public hearing quasi-judicial number two? Okay. Hi. I'm Sadia Sepharides. I want to first thank you, all of you, for agreeing to name a park after me. I'm so grateful. I have never had it in my mind that I'm going to be thanked for doing something for my community. I was just trying to improve the area, and you've been there for me. But the big door prize I got is Stacy. Thank you. You did such a wonderful, wonderful job for Golden Gate. On their behalf, I'm thanking you for my heart. You've been such a great supporter. And one thing I hope I don't miss is your chicken and dumplings. Thank you. You are a really good listener. You call on time, and you've been there for us. And I appreciate the park. I will make you guys proud, and I hope and pray to God that you are, every one of you. Just God bless you. I know there are ups and downs, but you're keeping up with it. And thank you. But Stacy, you're my heart, and I love you. Eugene Swan is next, followed by Doug Farley. Okay. Good morning. My name is Eugene Swan. I'm here with my wife, Sandy Swan. We are snowbirds. My family has been coming to Jensen Beach for six generations. My father drove a Martin County school bus for many years. Our children and grandchildren love to come to the house on High Line Drive that we inherited. Last Tuesday, after we voted in Pennsylvania, we are on the road to come here for a short vacation. When we got the call, water is in the house. We did not realize the devastation. We have not been near our house. Everything seems so normal all around here. People buying bait, people mowing lawns, people driving around until we get to our community and the communities around us. It has been a week of sadness for all the people affected and has been a very real struggle for them. Our future does not look bright. Many do not have flood insurance. In the short term, get the water out. In the long term, do something concrete to keep this from happening again. I repeat, get the water out now. Thank you. Thank you. Frank McChrystal is next, followed by Terry Kogel. Morning. Good morning, commissioners. I have some comments that seem inappropriate at this time. You could guess my favorite topic, what it was going to be. So I'll just make it short. Stacy, beauty, kindness, grace at all times. You will be missed. Thank you so much for your service to our community. Terry Kogel is next, followed by Dan Romans. Mr. Romans, do you want to speak now or on the item? Okay. Dan Romans is next, followed by Doug Hess. Okay. Good morning and thank you. Dan Romans. I'm the president of the Marine Industry Association of the Treasure Coast. Looks like there's a few things I could speak on this morning, but I'd like to support the Port Salerno Commercial Fishing Dock Authority and request that the commissioners approve the lease modifications and amendment and increase the overall slip count. Since 1974, the MITC has been dedicated to promoting protecting and growing marine related businesses and boating interests in Martin County and advocating for ocean access and working waterfronts has become a major priority for the local and state associations over the last couple of years. A working waterfront is a real property providing direct access to coastal or navigable waters for commercial and recreational fishing, aquaculture, boat building, marinas, boat ramps, repair facilities, and other water-dependent industries. Florida's waterfront economy is measured into billions of dollars today, but even more important than that is the historical significance of that way of life. Once a working waterfront is gone, it is rarely recovered. First receiving its Waterfront Florida designation in 2001, the Port Salerno commercial fishing industry has a deep historical legacy here in Martin County, but still serves as one of the region's key commercial seafood hubs. And kind of a personal note, I kind of had an opportunity to have that good experience when you go downtown Stewart and you're able to order something on one of the restaurants down there, and it really enhances the quality of life that we here in Martin County are able to enjoy. So I urge you to order the Pompano at the Black Marlin, and I urge you to support the Commercial Fishing Dock Authority lease modification and amendment. Thank you. Patricia Moore, would you like to speak now or on the agenda item? Okay. Same question for Terry Moore. Tiffany Kincaid and Tabitha Cook. Good morning, Commissioners. My name is Tiffany Kincaid. I am a resident of Jensen Beach, and I've been born and raised in Mountain County alongside my husband, Josh Kincaid. On November 2nd, just before midnight at our home on 4235 Northeast Highline Drive, water began coming into my house. We quickly grabbed whatever we could, and within about a half hour, our home was filled with water. We walked into our children's rooms and grabbed them from their beds, took them into our car, and headed for a safe place, not knowing when we would come back to our homes and what that might look like. The next morning, my neighbor kayaked over to my house to get a picture, and over three feet of water had been touching the home. We weren't able to get in until the next day, thanks to some friends and family with kayaks, and we were able to retrieve as much of our belongings as we could. Our home still sits in water nearly eight days later, almost as much as it did when it began eight days ago. And this is just one of so many devastating stories in my neighborhood. Some of my neighbors were trapped inside of their home. Every family has a story, and many are facing devastating losses. We need your continued advocacy and support at the state and federal level. We need collaboration with all the departments and any other organizations that can help. If FEMA funding doesn't come through, what else can the county do to help? I know a lot of people have spoke about what happened and how it happened, and I don't know those things. I can't speak on the technical that side, but I want to focus on what we're doing now and moving forward, and what can the county do to help me and my neighbors? What emergency funding budgets might be available to help us rebuild our community? I am asking you to please not forget about Highline Drive. Our recovery hasn't even begun. We need your continued support and advocacy. The community is only as strong as the support it gives to those who need it most. Please don't forget about us. Thank you. Tabitha Cook is next, followed by Kimberly Orem. Good morning. Good morning, Commissioners. We also live on Highline. My name is Tabitha Cook. I live at 4256 Northeast Highline. We were also extremely and greatly affected. My son has lived there his entire life. My son is a staple in the community. Everyone knows his swing. Everyone knows his backyard, sensory materials, his needs. Everyone on our block knows his noises, knows his sounds. Commissioners, last Monday night, my husband stayed up watching football. That's when he saw the water coming from the street coming up our driveway. By the time he got to the garage, the water was already too deep to move my minivan. At midnight, he woke me up and said we had to leave. We threw as many laundry baskets and as many clothes as we could in laundry baskets. We thankfully have a gate in the backyard so that we could make it to Savannah Road, which is much higher than our house. At one in the morning, we woke up our boys. My husband took Colton first, threw him over his shoulder, carried him out with a blanket over his head so he couldn't see what was going on. He put him in the truck and came back in for my other son. Picked him up, carried him through the water, and we sat in the truck praying, hoping that everything would just be okay. Many of our neighbors woke up to this scene. We thankfully got out. We thankfully got our kids to safety, but they did not. They had to have high water rescue trucks come in the very next morning, which they woke up to water in their homes. We have 16 inches of water still in our home. My son is unable to get any of his sensory materials, any of his essentials, diapers. We had to leave everything behind. We just ask, first, if the biggest thing that we're upset about is the lack of warning. We could have had some type of warning would have helped us immensely. We could have gotten more things. We could have prepped our children better. We could have made the decision ourselves. We felt like it was taken away from us. We also ask that you help with the aftermath. We need to get him back to his schedule and everyone else back to their schedules as soon as possible. The faster the better. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you. Thank you. Kimberly Orem is next, followed by Janet Zimmerman. Good morning. Good morning. Like Tabitha who spoke before me, the thing that's been the most upsetting is the lack of warning. I also live on Highline Drive, just a few houses from Tabitha, a couple, three or four. So my house is entirely flooded. I have two children, one with special needs. One of the things that's been most upsetting is that she's a senior in high school, my daughter, and I was working on some memorabilia things for her as she graduates this year and I've lost all of that. So things that I've been saving from early childhood, things that she's made are completely gone. Things that I can't replace. The same thing for my son. He's a freshman in high school. So he is not as interested in those kinds of things yet that I've been saving for him. But I was planning to make him something also and those are gone. I wasn't able to save that kind of thing. Things that are, you know, irreplaceable. Other things that are special that are irreplaceable, Christmas ornaments. Every year I bought special ornaments for us that are special for that particular year based on things that we've done that year, like camping out, for example. Those are gone. Those are irreplaceable for us. The lack of warning, just like Tabitha said, you know, if we'd had more warning, my vehicle could have been saved. I was unable to get a rental car to get my child to therapy that she has every week. I'm able to get a car to get her there. So she missed therapy sessions last week because I couldn't get her there. I don't drive an expensive car. I did not have any car payments left on my car because I was planning on driving an old car until my kids hopefully were out of college because I need to buy them cars. And my husband put a motor in this car this past summer. We went to Miami, bought three motors later because the first two didn't work, trying to save, you know, an old car for me so that we could buy them vehicles that they will need. And now that car's ruined because we didn't get any warning and couldn't get it out of the driveway. It's still sitting there in water too deep to even try to do anything with. Still sitting there. And now we're kind of at a loss of what to do with that. They're not going to give us the money to replace that car. It's not worth that much. So now we're down to one vehicle. I was finally able to get a rental car. So that's money, money lost. My child is trying to apply to colleges. She was unable to meet the deadline for a scholarship. I'd like to see a scholarship fund out of this for flood victims because she lost that opportunity. She is gifted as well as special needs. Her anxiety level is out the roof. She won't end up being able to apply for some of the colleges. She probably, she has a deadline this weekend. She also has an ACT coming up that she's scheduled to take. I'm not sure she's going to do as well as she hopefully could do because of this. There are things impacted that, I mean, obviously that's an unknown. How do you know how she would do on that? But her anxiety levels, obviously. We are not living in our home. We're living in a temporary home right now. Someone who is planning to come down for the season, snowbirds that aren't here yet, we're using their home. So it's a temporary place until we can figure out something else. I could say everything everybody else has already said as far as what needs to happen. You all already know that. Things have been stolen from neighbors. One thing has been stolen from us already. I see no police presence around. People are moving the barriers on the back street. We've seen multiple people get out of their cars, move those barriers and drive right on through, pushing water all over the place as they go. One person back there even cussed people out saying they're going to do it anyway. No police around to stop people from doing that. So these are real people that are being affected. Thank you. Janet Zimmerman is next. Ms. Zimmerman, do you want to speak at public comment or later? Okay. Good morning, commissioners. Good morning. I'd like to speak on the Port Salerno commercial fishing dock. For the record, my name is Janet Zimmerman. I'm the executive director for the Florida Inland Navigation District. And I'm here to express, find strong support for the proposed sovereign submerged lands lease modification for the Port Salerno commercial fishing dock. Port Salerno's one of the few remaining historic working waterfronts along Florida's east coast. It's a commercial fishing heritage and an important part of Martin County's identity, economy, and maritime culture. Unfortunately, these working waterfronts are becoming increasingly scarce. Facilities like these docks provide essential infrastructure for commercial fishermen and support the businesses, jobs, and families that depend on the industry. Find recognizes the importance of protecting these valuable maritime resources. In 2024, our board awarded Martin County a $60,000 waterway assistance program grant to support the construction of the commercial fishing docks. This investment reflects our commitment to preserving waterfront access and supporting the commercial fishing industry. Find's next waterway assistance program grant cycle opens January 2027, providing another opportunity for the county to seek additional funding if needed to continue those commercial fishing industry improvements. Find commends Martin County and the Port Salerno commercial fishing dock authority for their commitment to this project. We appreciate our continued partnership and look forward to helping preserve the important maritime resources for future generations. We cannot create more waterfront, but we can work together to preserve these working waterfronts together. Thank you. Thank you. Linda Wishbecker is next, followed by Andrew, followed by Andrea Dixon. Good morning. My name is Linda Weisbecker. I live at 4306 Northeast High Line Drive in Jensen Beach. We have over three and a half foot of water in our house. It's a five-generation home. My father-in-law was the first one on the street to build the home there. So we've raised our children, our grandchildren, and our great-grandchildren. We originally in 2011 had FEMA at our home with Tim Mahoney and a lot of our commissioners that are not here, but a lot of them that were still here, came to our home at that time. We had a pumping station put on the back so that we could continue keeping the area free so nobody's houses would flood. Everything has been great pretty much for that, except for all the excess building. We have been fighting for years for this. So anyway, when the water started on Monday, down at the other end, we talked to them. Where are they pumping it? What are they doing? The pond's holding us on. Keep it pumping. We're good. We keep an eye on it. Watch it. At three o'clock that afternoon, we were still great. By nine o'clock, the water started coming up. It surrounded our house first. Bill Schneider came by. We talked to him. We said, hey, what are you going to do? They're like, we're bringing a pump to put at the other end. I said, that just pumps right back into us. They're like, we don't know what we're going to do. At that time, we said, what do we need to do? They could have notified us at that time and said, hey, let's get cars out of here. Let's get people with kids. Let's get animals, whatever it takes. Let's get people out. None of that was said and done. I did not go to sleep. I stayed up. My dog alerted me. Now, mind you, I have a 200-pound puppy, an old English Mastiff, okay, and he has not a lot to handle. He's just a pup. But anyway, he alerted me. Something was wrong. I got up. The house was two inches of water. Within an hour, we had two and a half feet. We were trapped there till the next morning. No place to go. No way to get out. Unfortunately, my husband has been diagnosed with dementia. So one of our neighbors wound up taking us in with the dog, of course. So we're now at her house, but there's no sewage or septics or whatever. But anyway, he went over to get stuff out the next day, get stuff out on Wednesday. I looked out the window because I was going to go with him, and he had actually tipped the kayak and almost drowned. I had to go rescue him. He could not get his footing and get back up. That was very, very scary. So we're just asking for help. Just get us something. Do whatever you can to help us get back to our homes and our life. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Andrea Dixon is next, followed by Susan DeStaffney. Good morning. I am the representative of the Tick Ridge neighborhood that everyone keeps mentioning in Jensen Beach. Give you a little history lesson. I'm 61 years old. I lived in Jensen before Sugar Hill was built on top of a cemetery on some of those graves. There are homes. I was here when Jensen Beach Boulevard was commercial street, and it was a two-lane road before they built Savannah Oaks next to the cemetery. The cemetery now floods because of Savannah Oaks and all the overdevelopment in the back of Jensen Beach and the Tick Ridge area. Ms. Vargas came over Sunday. Appreciate you giving up your Sunday for us and missing your football game. You kept mentioning it. You're shaking your head, but that's what you said. You gave up a Sunday. We lived there 24-7. You don't live over there. The hole, and I am the witness that can tell you I know that they were pumping water into the Savannahs because it came into the hole. Ms. Mary Mack's house has about two feet of water in it. Mr. Groton told Gregory, Scott, keep building up the berm. You need to reimburse Gregory his money for the sand that he's bringing in over there to keep protecting the rest of his property in the hole. The other commissioners, you should come over and check it out. Check out that Tick Ridge area because Port St. Lucie and Port Pitch should have not been allowed to pump into the Savannahs. I live at 811 Dixon Way. Yes, the street bears my family's name because before 9-1-1, everything over there was Savannah Road. And when they put in 9-1-1, the streets had to have a name. My mom's house, our house is the only house on that street. Bus stop was there, the Dixon kids. Oh, well, it's Dixon Way. I'm fortunate our house sits high above the Savannahs. We don't flood, but I'm the advocate for everybody else over there that did flood because they're in their 80s. They don't have computers. They don't have emails. You've got Savannah Road flooding and those people on High Line, we have all become a family now because now they saw what we had to go through. When you did those aerial shots of Jensen Beach, you left out the Tick Ridge area. You would have seen all that water down in the hole. All those people that are driving through there do not live there. They move those barricades so that they can get through to cut through to Indian River Drive to get to Fort Pierce and Port St. Lucie or to get back to Sugar Hill. They've done it for years. Even with you building Green River Parkway, it does not alleviate the traffic through Savannah Road to Colleenine Road to make that shortcut even if they reduce the speed to 25 miles an hour on Indian River Drive. You still have accidents down there. We all need help over there. We know you have a discretionary fund so Gregory could get his money back for all that sand they're hauling in there to build it up. Tap into your discretionary fund. Doug Smith had to do it when we fought for that part to keep that church from being built. Ms. Heard, you were on the commission at that time. You know what we went through. So we are very vocal. Tick Ridge is a part of Jensen Beach. It's the black community. We shouldn't be left out of any of the conversation. We are a part of the conversation. So you need to do your jobs because just like they voted Doug Smith out of that seat, they can vote you out of it too. Susan DeStaffney is next, followed by Althea Wiley. Good morning. Good morning, Commissioners. My name is Susan DeStaffney. First, I'd just like to say that I am so sorry to my neighbors on High Line Drive and all the other areas affected by the flooding and for all that we've endured and our losses. We've got to be there for each other. My husband and I have lived in our home at 4276 High Line Drive, which is directly on the pond. We have been there for 40 years, raising three amazing daughters. My husband and I are in our 60s, planning for retirement. I'm a registered nurse and I worked with children with disabilities and I still continue to work and it doesn't look like there's an end in sight for me now. We're blessed to have our daughter and son-in-law and three-year-old grandson who were living across the street in a rental home. We lost everything, they've lost everything. So you have two families that have been affected by all of this. My grandson would watch out the window for me to come home from work every day to come over and play and swim in the pool. Life was good. Now he's crying every day that he wants to go home. How do you explain to a four-year-old that we are homeless? We don't have homes. He doesn't have his toys. He doesn't have his bike. He doesn't have the swimming pool. He has nothing. A four-year-old. As the water continued to rise at 3 a.m., two feet of water flowing into their home, they called 911 to assist with evacuation and to notify the dispatcher what was going on. The dispatcher told them to call their insurance company. We have reported this to Brian Mast and they have looked back at the video recording and that in fact did happen. That might be another point that you need to talk to. A personal friend of our family contacted a friend of his with the fire department to initiate help. That's how we got the high water rescue trucks in our neighborhood to help us. If people would have had notice, we could have saved more of our belongings. Instead, we were relying on kayaks wading through water three foot deep in the road, four foot deep in the road. That's how we got out close what little bit that we could at that point in time. We've lost everything including our cars. The only reason that I have a car is because it happened to be up at my daughter's house because I was out of town. My daughter lives in Melbourne. So out of four cars, we have one. You have done this to us. Your stormwater plan has failed. We have contacted public works throughout the years and that the plan to drain the savannah's overflow into the Highline Pond is not a solution and something better needs to be in place. Always falling on deaf ears. Now here we are. Our lives are shattered. I want to know what you are going to do. I would personally like to invite Ms. Vargas, Jim Gordon, and Bill Schneider and the associates to don a hazmat suit and a respirator and help us get what's left out of our homes because this is what our future looks like. Is this the tip of the iceberg? Is this man-made flooding our future? I want to say thank you to the United Way. We have been given a hotel. We're living out of oversized trash bags with our clothes. The Salvation Army has been amazing and our local Jensen Beach restaurants for what they're doing for us. Commissioners, sleep well tonight. I know I won't. Althea Wiley is next, followed by Mario Marino. Morning. First, I just want to congratulations, Stephanie, and blessings on your new endeavor. I was sitting here. I only came for support, not to do any type of podcast or anything because there's a time and place for everything, and I really came to support the community that I actually grew up in. And what really struck a nerve because the last time I was here, I spoke about the tent city helpers because you don't know. I also said that any given situation, any one of us can end up in a homeless situation. And to hear a community, skyline drive, and they're talking about homelessness, it really hurts. It really hurts. I want you to understand what you ignore, I don't care how small it may be to you, it becomes, it grows bigger and bigger. So when you want to ignore the homelessness situation here in Martin County, you're waiting for another creation. It's growing bigger now. And to hear skyline, highline, because I grew up in Tickridge, Wiley, Dixon's, Delancey's, if you're from here, you know. To hear them talk about what they're going through, and you know the homes and the residents that you knew all your life is hurtful. And while we're sitting here, all nice and comfortable, and when I left here that last time, I ran. Because you have to understand the people and what they go through. So if you don't take care of the small situations, it's going to get worse. I don't care how much money you have and who you are, you will be affected. So don't ignore what you need to bring highlight to now. Because it's heart-wrenching. It hurts. It hurts. And you won't know until you experience. And to see skyline, highline, go through what they're going through. And that young man up here, you know the house is heart-wrenching. Do what you need to do to assist not only tent city helpers, but these folks now. Please. Mario Marino is next. And Mr. Marino is the last request to speak for him. I have for public comments. Pardon me. He's going to speak on train zones? Okay. All right. Jensen Beach residents, we've heard you loud and clear. You are our top priority. You are our focus today. But we need to have thorough and thoughtful review of everything that we know about the flooding in Jensen Beach. We're not going to take it up on the fly right now. We have a preset for 1.30. And in order to serve you best, we're going to preserve that time at 1.30 so that it doesn't just become emotional. We want to provide you with real solutions. So we're going to not take up commissioner comments on the fly. We're going to take up your very, very important preset at 1.30. Now we're going to take a five-minute break, and then we're going to take up our 10.30 preset. I don't think so. Maybe I have. I don't know. I don't feel like I have. We are now going to take up Department 7, which is a discussion on quiet zones. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Eric. No. No power. Good morning. Can you hear me? I don't think so. Yeah. Good morning. Eric Ferguson, Traffic Engineering Administrator. With me is Rory Newton from the Federal Railroad Administration. And this morning we're going to talk about providing an update on the Railroad Safety Capital Improvement Program and the Florida East Coast Railway Quiet Zones. His background, trains have been operating in Martin County since 1894 when Henry Flagler extended the Florida East Coast Railway Railroad. The railroad was primarily freight traffic until 2023 when Brightline began commercial service. The county chose not to pursue a quiet zone for one year after Brightline started. And then in March 11, 2025, the Board direction was to not pursue quiet zones. In March – at the March 11th meeting, the Board added a Railroad Safety Capital Improvement Program for the fiscal FY25-26 budget. And in May 19, 2026, the Board directed us to revisit quiet zones. This is an agenda of what we're going to cover. We're going to talk about crash data before and after Brightline. We're going to give an update on the rail safety CIP program. We're going to give an overview of what a quiet zone is. And we're going to talk a little bit about the FRA methodology for quiet zones and how it doesn't totally address adjacent highway intersections. And finally, we're going to provide some options for quiet zones. This is crash data. This is a 10-year crash data. On your left is – these were incidents that would actually happen at a crossing. On your right are injury or casualties. Injury or casualties could be anywhere along the rail line. I think what I'd like to direct your attention to in both graphs is orange is Brightline. So before 2023, we really didn't have – you know, when we do our crash monitoring surveillance report, the railroads weren't really much of an issue. We went several years without a crash. As you can see, there's nothing on there. Then in 2023, you start seeing the orange increase in both at grade crossing incidents and injury or casualties. And then the other thing I'll add is in 2026, I checked the numbers last night, and we have three FV – three grade crossing incidents this year without the year complete. So it'll actually be the highest year so far. This is a map of the grade crossing incidents for the whole county. Although the presentations on FEC – we actually have three rail lines in the county. Besides the FEC, we have the CSX and the South Central Florida Express in Indiantown. So – and what I'd like to direct your attention to is the worst crossing for number of incidents was actually Amaryllis in Indiantown. It had five in five years. And the other ones to note are Colorado had – actually, I had one, but Jensen Beach Boulevard had three, and the other crossings had one. And then the other thing as we look at the next slides, incidents don't always equal accidents, as we'll see. This is a map of FEC injuries. The county north is to your right. We – you know, turn the map first, how you normally show data. The injuries – injuries are reported anywhere along the rail line. You can see they're fairly spread out, although Indian Street and Jensen Beach Boulevard each had two injuries in five years. This is a five-year map of Indiantown of the CSX and South Central Florida Express injuries. There was only one injury at that time. And the other thing to note is Amaryllis, although it had five incidents where, you know, a car – a vehicle actually got hit on the tracks, there were no injuries. But in the previous five years, there were injuries. So now I'm going to move to an update on the Rail Safety Capital Improvement Project, what we've done since we received funding, and talk about some of – some of what we'd like to do in the future. The first project we completed is we have nine traffic signals that are connected to railroad crossings, and we added unindulteral power supplies to each of those. This is new technology. It's actually a capacitor. It's not a battery. So previously it was not very cost-effective. We'd have – we would use the same batteries as you have in your car in Florida. A battery last three to four years. So this is new technology. This was installed with in-house with the traffic signal operations installed this. We saved a lot of money. And we were also able to get DOT to fund Monterey and Dixie to purchase the equipment. The next – the major project of the Railroad CIP program is to add gates to the Amaryllis Crossing. As you can see, currently there's no gates in Amtrak, I believe, 79 miles per hour, the trains. It's – in the lower right, you'll notice it's the ninth worst crossing in the state. So most of the funding in the CIP is we're currently designing the crossing to add gates. The next project is we're adding a traffic signal at Dixie and Cross Rip and Hope Sound. This, like many crossings along Dixie, has a very short distance between the tracks and the parallel road. This traffic signal is warranted from both a traffic crash perspective and from the proximity of the railroad grade crossing. The design is complete and we are in the process of permitting with FEC. The next project we completed was lighting upgrades at Jensen Beach Boulevard crossing. This crossing had 66 percent of crashes at night, which is a high rate. On your left is before. You'll notice the red. Red is below standards. On the right is what the lighting will be – the lighting will be with the upgrades and it's – you'll notice the yellow is standards. We were able to actually replace the fixtures in the lower left with the sag lens and not have to change the poles. And this – we installed this at – with the traffic street light crew, which was a good cost savings. There's still some FPL lights that have to be added to their power poles. The next safety project you may have observed is Brightline has added tubular delineators. You can see the white ones on the outside. These prevent cars from turning onto the tracks. And also at some of the crossings they've run delineators down the center of the road to keep people from going around gates. This was funded by – or was maintained by Brightline. They received a safety grant and they are going to maintain these delineators. We're really hopeful that these are going to provide a benefit. This is a roadmap of some of the future safety projects staff has identified from the left to right. They increase in complexity. It says – just I'm going to touch briefly on a few of them. We have a number of crossings that are – the intersection is very close to the – the highway intersection is very close to the tracks. We want to study those further. There are some low-cost pavement markings we want to add where we have traffic signals. We want to upgrade lighting. One of these we're looking at a more expensive long-term change is that the traffic signals that are connected to the grade crossings. We want to get a notice from the railroad sooner to have the lights change faster. We have a number of crossings where – with a single lane where every time a train comes the traffic signal goes green, but you – today you don't have an arrow to let you know you have the right-of-way to get off the track. But unfortunately, a lot of our signals structurally, that's a major change. We're also looking at pre-signals. That's what you see at Monterey and Dixie, for example, where you stop before the tracks. And we're going to add – and also signs that light up to tell you not to turn when a train is coming on Dixie. So we also applied for a safety grant that incorporates a lot of the safety enhancements I previously mentioned. Construction's scheduled for fiscal year 2033. The grant is – we've requested $5 million. And it's going to be in Hobestown. It's going to be the crossings at Gleason, Bridge Road, Pettway, Cross Rip, and Osprey. And most of the – most of the improvements consist of traffic signal improvements, a traffic signal at Gleason. And these improvements are due to the proximity of Dixie Highway with the tracks. There's really a lot of these crossings, not enough room for a car to sit – or not a car, but if you have a trailer to not be on the tracks. The other thing that – in this project is emergency pedestrian exit gates, and I have a photo of that later in the presentation. Now I'm going to give an overview of what a quiet zone is. We'll start with – we have 27 grade crossings in – on the FEC. And these include six – six different entities. Martin County is the majority of the crossing. It's also City of Stewart, State of Florida. We have two shared at the North and South County lines with St. Lucie, Palm Beach County. And we have one private crossing in Jensen Beach. So the train sounder horn, what is known as a federal train horn rule, was passed in 2005. The decibel levels – 96 decibels – that's equivalent to a loud motorcycle. And 110, that'd be similar to a front row at a rock concert. And there's distance requirements. There's how the horn is sounded. It's prescribed by federal rules. This was an analysis of the number of properties that potentially could be impacted by the train horns. There was a half-mile and one-mile contour buffers. These are planning guidelines. They don't really take into account the topography. But typically the half-mile is what you'd see during the day that could potentially have some impact. And the mile would be at night, where you have a lower threshold for the level of sound that would impact you. So it's 12 – we had identified 12,000 residential properties in the half-mile and 27,000 within one mile. So what is a quiet zone? It's – first, it's a partnership between FRA and the public authority, which should be Martin County. I think I'd like to really mention it's not a quiet zone. It's a quieter zone. Horns are not routinely sounded, but emergency safety reasons. If there's maintenance going on on the tracks, that's another reason that the horns could be sounded. You have two options. It could be a 24-hour quiet zone, or from 10 p.m. to 7 a.m. And as we're going to show later in the slides, the quiet zone must be a half-mile long, and no other crossings within a quarter-mile beginning and end. So that – that basically that works out to you. You need a half – any crossing within a half a mile that touches another one would have to be in the same zone. So how do you qualify for a quiet zone? To qualify, you have to demonstrate that your risk has been reduced from the elimination of the train horn. There's two primary – there's two primary ways to reduce the risk. Basically what they found – when train horns were eliminated, there was an increase in vehicles going around gates. So the primary ways to reduce that are you either need long medians, which is shown in the photo on the left, or you would add an exit gate, which is shown on the right. In this case, the exit gate was used because the median couldn't be long enough. And we have a similar situation today at Monterey and Dixie. It actually has both treatments. The other thing I'd like to point out in this photo is at the bottom you can see the pedestrian exit gates, the one-way escape routes, and that's something we hope to add to the Hope Sound crossings with the grant. So with a quiet zone, interlocal coordination is required. So all public authorities that are in the quiet zone would have to enter into an agreement. For example, if we were to – if a countywide option was chosen, it would require agreements with the City of Stewart, St. Lucie County, Palm Beach County, FDOT, and Florida DEP. A quiet zone has ongoing requirements. There would be an increase in cost to maintain additional signage. We'd have to adhere to the federal regulations. You have a potential that if we had a high crash rate, our risk could go up and that, you know, you could lose the quiet zone potentially. And every two and a half to three years, there's paperwork we have to file and reporting. And the other thing is if there's extra gates added, there could be some increase in maintenance costs of a couple thousand dollars per year per gate. The legal impacts, establishing a quiet zone itself is not really the issue. It's more if we did not maintain the signs, the reporting. There was actually a case – a current case now in Boca Raton where a pedestrian was hit but the actual – the quiet zone sign itself was faded. So that's – yeah, it'd be the negligence or liability if we didn't maintain it. This is a – I'm going to provide a status on our neighboring communities. Indian River County is not pursuing a quiet zone. St. Lucie County, directly to our north, has three crossings. The City of Stewart is exploring quiet zones and they just received a $1.86 million grant from FRA to study Confusion Corner and Sailfish Circle. The village of Tequesta is pursuing one crossing. Jupiter and Palm Beach Gardens both have quiet zones. So Indian River County is the most comparable size-wise. They have 32 crossings with City of Vero Beach and Sebastian. Although I'd say Jupiter and Palm Beach Gardens with alternate A1A, it's a similar situation to Dixie, but almost all their crossings currently have traffic signals. And like once the Cuesta has their quiet zone, we will have quiet zones abutting the county – both county lines north and south of us. And I think the one difference, too, is we do have some of the most unique crossings. We have a number of circular intersections very close to the grade crossings, which none of the other agencies have. So I got a couple slides on the FRA methodology limitations. So one of the criticisms is that the way the FRA methodology works now is it's an average. So that can lead you to some crossings. Depending on what crossings you include to bring down the risk, you may not put in improvements that would be recommended. For example, in our case, like if we include Jonathan Dickinson State Park, that's a very low volume, low risk. That would bring down the average for the whole county, which means we may not have to add a gate or an exit gate somewhere else in a county. And that's something the FRA is exploring in future regulations. Is that? It's not official. Not official. But the average out is a common criticism that it allows for quiet zones being south without improvements in certain areas. The other issue is that the quiet zone calculator, the risk model, only – it's only crossing centric. It does – it looks at the number of trains at the crossing, the speed of trains, the number of cars that go over, the number of lanes. It does not consider if you have an adjacent intersection 50 feet away. That's the – that's more of a highway authority issue, and that's not into the – in the regulations. So for example, on your left, we have Cove Road. You can see we superimpose in red a tractor trailer. So when a tractor trailer were to wait there at the yield sign, its trailer is on the tracks. So the FRA model doesn't account for that. On the right, we have an example in Hope Sound, at Dixie, at Gleason, where we're proposing a traffic signal with a grant. Again, if you have a long vehicle with a trailer, you – it's hard to wait there. We talked to one resident who has a boat trailer. He said, you know, if I wait before the tracks, I don't have good sight distance. If I pull up to Dixie, my trailer is on the tracks. So we – there's eight crossings in the county that we would think about further studies – County Line Dixie. Well, Dixie-Gleason we've studied, Dixie-Broward, Cove Road, Sailfish Circle, Confusion Corner, Fern, Dixie-Allis, and Jensen Beach Boulevard also with the tracks through it. So staff, we analyzed Dixie and Broward. We found a traffic signal would be warranted. However, we're proposing a one-way truck route restriction for that location. We hope to bring that back. South County Line – we have a study we started. We anticipate a traffic signal would be a better intersection treatment than the four-way stop. There's potential now that at the all-way stop, cars can back up over the tracks there. And also, the City of Stewart will be studying Sailfish Circle and Confusion Corner with their grant. The other limitation of the quiet zone is it – the model – the risk model does not address trespassers with the elimination of the Horn. Their – FRA actually had one study, and it was – basically it was two years increase in trespass crashes, one year decrease. Although there was – overall, there was a slight increase. It was not statistically significant. What I'd say my – reading the study, it's very – the trespass issue is very local context-dependent, and it's hard to draw any general conclusions on that. MR. Well, I would say a quiet zone is not a trespass mitigation program. It would – won't change the behavior of a trespasser, likely. It's more – their awareness of trains is the issue. MR. Yeah. And fence – you know, fencing is a solution for that. So finally, I'm going to – at the end of the presentation, I'm going to bring up some options for quiet zones. So I'm going to start with – this is a map of our current crossing configurations and the type of treatments we have today, the spacing of the crossings, that all feeds into the cost and the feasibility of different options. So the county crossings are – they're in circles. Any crossing that has four gates is filled with blue. Any cross – any crossing that doesn't have four gates is in yellow. Some of those do – some of those crossings in yellow may have one gate – or, sorry, an exit gate that doesn't – they may have some of the additional safety treatments. There's three areas we identified that if we were to do partial quiet zones, they need to be included due to the half-mile spacing. The first is in Port Salerno from Cove Road to Seaward. Those have to be done as a group due to their proximity. The City of Stewart, this inset from Southeast Dixie Highway to St. Lucie Ave, those are required to be done as one group. And at the North County Line – County Line Road and Skyline Drive would have to be done as one group. So for quiet zones, we – at the bottom of your – we develop several options. At the bottom of your map is – north is to the right. At the top, there's five options presented. We also – for each option, we look at the cost, time, required coordination with other agencies such as Palm Beach County, FDOT. And depending on the option chosen, the FRA review process can be longer. If we use crossings that, for example, only have four gates, it's a – the review process is much faster. Whereas if we have crossings that some of them have four gates, some of them do not, it's a longer process. As far as time, we consider the city – the county-wide option of the City of Stewart would take longer because that would require – the agreement would be more complicated with – due to the number of their crossings, we would have – we'd have to either decide if they would maintain theirs or if we would maintain the safety devices, the extra signage. So we – so the options are there's a status quo, no action. The cost would be zero. We looked at a south county option that would – that would exclude the City of Stewart. That would be from southeast county line to Monterey Road. We looked at a north – a north county option. That'd be from Alice Ave to north county. And we also looked at a county-wide option. And finally, there are isolated crossings staff identified that do not have adjacent intersections near them that also have four gates. Those would be – that are lower – the lowest risk. Those would be Jonathan Dickinson, the – and Hope Sound, the reverse curve on Dixie by the VFW that's also called the Frutia crossing, Palm Meadow and Jensen Beach, and Skyline and north county line drive in Jensen Beach. So with with these options, that's the end of my presentation. Before we open questions, I do always – that these try to have a safety minute. The one thing is every crossing has this blue sign at the bottom. If there's a problem, like there's a car broke down on the tracks or something like that, you can call that number and you'll be immediately connected to FEC's dispatch and they can stop the train. So I think that's something a lot of people – we found a lot of people don't know about. MR. The other thing is the gates – Can I expand more on that? MR. Yeah, yeah, please do. MR. So the sign that's talking about is the emergency notification sign. It is a federally mandated sign at every railroad crossing in America and is maintained by the railroads and the federal government does police it very vigorously. The phone number on the crossing goes to the road that operates the crossing. So whether it be FEC or CSX or if you're out on the west coast and in Seattle, Washington and Union Pacific or BNSF would answer the phone. This is faster than calling anybody else to stop trains, particularly here for FEC. In Brightland, they have a joint dispatch center in Jacksonville. You call that tunnel and you're talking to the train dispatcher directly. They are literally controlling the train traffic. Other roads do – maybe do it differently, but this is the fast way to get a train stopped. We're talking – they can pick up the phone. Oh, I'm at Jensen Beach Boulevard. Okay, hold on a second. Hey, train 100, stop. And that's how fast it could be to stop a train for the railroad. So that number at the bottom of the sign, like that 272-189L in the picture there, that is the – every crossing has ID number and it's unique to the crossing. So no matter what you call that number, you give them that number. If you don't name the street or what town you're going to say, I'm at, this crossing number, they know exactly where you are and they can – they are in control of their trains. They can stop the trains or slow them down, do whatever is necessary to protect that crossing. And it doesn't have to be a dire emergency. It could be anything wrong with the crossing. The gate's broken. The lights are flashing. There's no train. They have – they malfunction. They break down. They're mechanical equipment. They do need maintenance. And sometimes things just go wrong. Don't hesitate to call the railroad and let them know there's a problem. It's okay to report a problem. We'd rather you call and it'd be a nothing deal and nothing happens or not calling and there'd actually be an incident. So don't hesitate to report incidents of any sort to the railroad and utilize that blue and white sign, please. MR. So that completes my presentation. Staff is seeking direction on quiet zones. Some potential options are no action, a county-wide option, a partial option. We've looked at north – we've looked at – MR. That's green. MR. Sure. Yep. And what I would add with all the options, there's the decision of 24 hours or 10 p.m. to 7. MR. We call it partial. So you can have nighttime hours which are set by regulation from 10 p.m. to 7 p.m. or 24 p.m. to 8 p.m. to 8 p.m. It's the same effort to establish – it's just a preference to local communities what they want. MR. And the other thing that came up with the nighttime option is the last Brightline train leaves I think around 10 p.m. or something around then. So you're not eliminating a lot of whistles. MR. Most of the freight trains are at night now. MR. Yeah. So – MR. Yeah. But the majority of horns are during the day. MR. Absolutely. MR. Yeah. So yeah, I think going back, these are the options we've – some options we considered. There's a lot of other permutations that – when you look at the different gates where you could slice it, so. MS. Questions for Mr. Ferguson or Mr. Newton. Mr. Capps. MR. I'd like to begin by thanking you, Mr. Ferguson, and your department. That was a great presentation. MR. Thank you. MR. Very thorough. MR. I'd like us to begin by turning back to page 819, 819. MR. It has to do with the public safety impacts FEC 10-year history to show basically the history of incidents in Martin County and how railroad crossings are very dangerous. Done in the bottom right-hand corner, it sums it all up there from 2016 to 2025. MR. And now this would be Brightline and FEC or – MR. Correct. MR. Or freight trains both? MR. If you look at the very bottom, we have a table that shows which one is FEC and which one is Brightline. MR. Yes. MR. Right. And if you add all those – MR. The graph's the combined number. MR. Right. Right. If you add those all up, I think it's 14, right? Am I adding right? MR. Three, four, five, six, seven, eight at the top and six at the bottom. MR. 14 impacts. Now, some of those would be collisions and some of those would be trespassers, but 14 in total. And then the five-year crossing incidents on page 820. And if you add up the little circles, that's seven. So we've had seven incidents in the last five years and 14 in the last 10. MR. So – MR. No, there's been more than five incidents in five years. MR. Well – MR. And we're at least if I had five incidents all by itself. MR. It's a five-year history, I think, though. Number five keeps coming up. It's a five-year history. MR. Right. Yeah, that's a five-year history. MR. And that's a total of seven. MR. One, three, one, and one – MR. Oh, six. I'm sorry. MR. Yeah, it's – MR. Only if you look – if you include only FEC. MR. Okay. Okay. MR. Yeah, this map depicts the whole county. The previous charts are only FEC for 10 years. Actually, the previous chart was 10 years. MR. Okay. MR. Just to clarify why he's using five years, that's what the quiet zone risk calculation uses a five-year history. MR. Okay. MR. So 10 years just to give you historical perspective versus what we're going to use to calculate risk. MR. Great. And then, Mr. Ferguson, you worked in Indian River County when they took this issue up. I thought maybe you could tell us a little bit about how that went down there. MR. Sure. Actually, I did a very similar presentation. In fact, both of us did. So, at the time, in Indian River County, three of the commissioners had a public safety background. MR. Yeah. MR. One was a retired firefighter, former sheriff. One was a former detective. And three of them and the sheriff – the retired sheriff at the time, he actually lived next to the tracks himself. They, from a public safety perspective, felt that the train horn provided a benefit. That was the reason they voted against quiet zones. MR. And they voted against quiet zones in the entire county? MR. Yes. MR. Okay. And then, Mr. Gorton, you and I have talked about what St. Lucie County has done in the past. Can you tell us how many quiet zones they have? MR. Yep. Jim Gorton, public works director. So, St. Lucie County has three quiet zones, and then they're in their southernmost three crossings, and they're more rural crossings. They go through the savannas. MR. Jim, if I could just correct you, it's one quiet zone, three crossings. MR. Three crossings, yeah. MR. Yep. One quiet zone, three crossings. MR. Yep. Okay. MR. And that is adjacent. One more thing is, it's adjacent to Martin County, so if we were to include any quiet zones in the northern section of Martin County, it would be adjacent to an existing quiet zone. MR. Okay. Mr. Newton, we appreciate you coming here today, and you work with the Federal Railroad Administration. MR. Correct. MR. And here's a question for you. If an accident happens at a quiet zone, can local governments incur more liability than if it were not a quiet zone? MR. Well, I really can't answer you if you're going to be sued or not at a great crossing. The quiet zone rule in itself, establishing a quiet zone, it's permitted by regulations. So a quiet zone is not something that is a liability. It's how you administer it, where if it's not being adhered to the regulation, you know, it is – there is possibilities of accountability for that. And other quiet zones are – have been incidents of communities being sued or the railroads being sued for accidents in quiet zones, and they're alleging problems with the quiet zone. But as far as I'm aware, the actual – having a quiet zone in itself is not a – not a direct liability. MR. Has there been an incident down – is it Boca or Boynton where a local government's being sued? MR. Well, there is a civil suit involving the Boca Raton quiet zone. The parties to the suit, I think, involves multiple parties. I'm not sure if the city is being sued. I know the railroads are being sued, but it's a case that's been going on for several years now, I believe. But it does tie directly to the quiet zone as one of the complaints. MR. Wasn't there – one of the allegations had to do with fading signs and maintenance issues associated with things that need to be at a quiet zone, railroad crossing? MR. Right. That would be something that I would – when I would give advice about is that the quiet zone – the no train horn sign is what it is. That in itself is a requirement of a quiet zone. The only person that installs and maintains that sign is the public authority in charge of the road. If you're not maintaining something that's required, I think an attorney – any attorney could probably counsel you that that's probably a liability if you fail to maintain something you're specifically required to have. We – therefore, it would certainly take action if we found your quiet zone noncompliant. You could lose your quiet zone over maintenance failures or noncompliance of safety devices like that. MR. Are there places in Florida where quiet zones have been taken away from local communities? MR. There are currently four quiet zones suspended in the state of Florida due to noncompliance. One quiet zone was self-terminated by the public authority more so they could kind of reset themselves and reestablish a later date as more of a construction project problem than a willingness to comply. The other four are working to resolve their compliance issues but are currently still suspended. MR. Mr. Gorton, you and I have talked in the past about a very interesting statistic that compares 10 years back in time with 10 years forward in time and what we might anticipate with regard to accidents at railroad crossings in the next 10 years of both fatalities and injuries. Do you recount that? MR. Yeah. Eric, can you go back to the previous slide? MR. So, and Eric touched on this a little bit, but on the table that's on the right-hand side, you can see from 2024 to 2025 the number of accidents that occurred there exceed the amount of accidents that occurred in the 10 years prior. So if you were to project that same volume of accidents that have occurred since Brightline came on, there would be a dramatic increase in both injuries and casualties going forward. It's a function of more trains. It's not necessarily Brightline. It just means there's more trains on the track, so there's more opportunity for something to happen. MR. I wish I had that right in front of me, but I, as I remember there were going to be, we should be anticipating like seven times as many fatalities and 10 times as many injuries or vice versa. One of the two, but both sound pretty foreboding. All right, back to Mr. Ferguson. The five crossings in Hope Sound are, have a uniquely dangerous condition. Can you tell us what that is? MR. So the five in Hope Sound, the condition is Dixie Highway is parallel to the FEC. We have a term that we refer to as the clear storage distance. That would be this, the distance between, for a vehicle to wait between Dixie Highway and the tracks. So at most, at those crossings, it's definitely too short for a tractor trailer, or in some cases, a vehicle, say, with a landscape trailer to wait at Dixie Highway, so that, without being on the tracks. MR. So the condition is that all five crossings are very close, in close proximity to Dixie Highway, and it doesn't, you can't stack cars. MR. Correct. MR. On both sides. And then we have applied for federal grants for additional safety measures, just for the five crossings in Hope Sound, and nowhere else, and Martin County. Is that true? MR. Well, there was also the other, was it the same, there's another grant we applied, Jim, you wanted to just. MR. Yeah, okay. MR. So that, that is the grant that we're, that we just received, where it is now in the draft tentative work plan. We are working on a grant for the Amaryllis, we, but we're not there yet. MR. Okay. But the ones that we've applied for, for additional safety measures, are just, really just for the five in Hope Sound? MR. Yes, yeah, that was the, when we received funding for rail safety in our CIP, that was the, the first projects that we identified that needed to be addressed. MR. Mm-hmm. And can you tell us what these additional safety measures would be, just in Hope Sound? MR. Yeah, actually, I'll go to the, the slide on that. MR. Mm-hmm . MR. So, um, the first additional safety measures, we'd like to add a traffic pre-signal. And with a traffic pre-signal, the example I like to give, I, everyone, uh, probably, most of us drive through Monterey at Dixie. And at that, at the, at that crossing, which is unique, is you have a traffic signal on the railroad truss where you are forced to stop before the, the tracks, because you have a very limited, limited distance between, uh, Dixie and the tracks there to wait. And then, on the far side of the intersection, the near and far traffic signals, they actually change differently. So you'll get a red, the one before the tracks will go red. And the, every time a train comes, we give a, a short green traffic signal, a track clearance if someone is on the tracks where they're not supposed to be to get them off the tracks. So the Hope Sound crossings lack, the current, current crossings lack that. So we want to go back and retrofit it. Like, for example, Osprey doesn't have a pre-signal. And we, there's a lot of research that that's very beneficial when you have adjacent traffic signals to a crossing with that short storage distance to have an additional traffic signal to stop you before the tracks. We're also, um, going to add emergency, um, pedestrian bypass gates, because what can happen now is, um, a pedestrian gate will come down. If you're on the tracks, you, you can't, you can lift the gate up, but it's really, if you're. It's a lift up crossing gates. Do not do that. Yeah. But if you're, if you're trapped. Mend over and get underneath it. Yeah. Right. But I, I was, I was in downtown West Palm once and I was, it happened to me. It was someone who was in a wheelchair next to me. And I did, I had to help them go around where there wasn't actually a hard surface. Just to help Eric for that. Yeah. There's actually pavement around the gate arm mechanism with a one way swinging gate. So if you're a disabled person and you're on a wheelchair or whatever, there's actually a pathway that's clear. You can get around the barrier, but it also prevents you from going the wrong way around that, that escape route. So, um, another thing we'd add that we're lacking at a lot of our traffic signals that are adjacent to the grade crossings is, um, an arrow that comes up to tell you not, for example, not to make a right turn. I think that would be helpful. We did have the one incident at bridge, uh, bridge road where the gate came down. I think these additional warning signs that are illuminated when the train's coming, not to turn onto the tracks would provide a benefit. Monterey and Dixie has those today. Um, another one that's a little bit in the weeds, but, um, what happens when we have single lanes, like I said, every time when you have a traffic signal next to a grade crossing, the people on the tracks get a green light. But the opposing people, if both of you are green, you would, you assume, right, when both people get yellow at the same time, that the other person's not going to go across. But what happens in this situation is the people across from you don't know that you have an extended green. So there's trap – there's different signal heads, things we can deal with. There's ways to fix the yellow trap, but that – it's not easy to explain without a visual. There's pavement marking enhancements. We've seen other parts of the country had things like wait here at the traffic signal that would help. Talked about – the other issue at the Hope Sound crossing is you have a single lane. If you're on the tracks, like I said, every time the train comes, we get a signal at the traffic signal, you get a green. But if you're making a left, you don't have a left arrow to let you know you have the right-of-way. So someone could incorrectly assume, even though they got the green, that the opposing car is not going to let them make the left to get off the track. So we have – we want to retrofit all those crossings. Seaward and Port Salerno has the same configuration that – that's when we want to go back and add a left arrow to tell you you can get off the tracks when the train comes. And the major – the other major capital improvement in the grant would be a traffic signal Gleason. MR. Now, these federal grants – there are five crossings in Hope Sound, and three of them currently have traffic lights – intersection traffic lights, and two do not. One is Gleason and one is cross-rep. MR. Correct. And so with the federal grants are for both, I do believe. So that's cross – go ahead. MR. We are current – sorry, Commissioner. Well, cross-rep is – we anticipate funding that partially the rail safety CIP sheet and the intersection improvement sheet now. MR. Okay. MR. Once it's – once, you know, permitting is finished with FEC. MR. Okay. So these new safety measures that would be going in in Hope Sound would be intersection lights at Gleason and cross-rep, pre-signals, and those are on like a pole on the right side of the road as you approach the tracks to let you know to stop on the east side of the track as you're going west. MR. Correct. MR. And there's a thing called a signal preemption. MR. Yes. MR. Can you – maybe you already hit that, but it just had a different name. If not, maybe explain what signal preemption is. MR. Okay. So – MR. A simultaneous preemption. MR. Yeah, any – or – MR. Yeah. MR. Yeah, anytime we have a traffic signal within 250 feet of a grade crossing, they're actually tied together with an interconnection. And when we get a signal – the same signal that has the train lights and gates activate, we also get that signal and it preempts our normal traffic signal operation. It's the highest priority and the traffic signal immediately stops what it's doing and it gives a green to make sure someone gets off the track. MR. So that one is largely for people who found themselves stuck on the tracks. MR. Correct. MR. When a train's coming. MR. Yeah. MR. The light turns green. MR. Yeah, we call it a clearance green. MR. Yeah, it's actually called a track – track clearance green is when we – on our programming sheet. MR. Right. And then there was one more, as I remember, and it – it was called – MR. MR. Blankout signs are not – yes. MR. Yeah, second train coming lights. MR. Mm-hmm. Tell us what that is. MR. So that – yeah, that didn't make the slide, but that – when I was at Indian River County, they had a supplemental safety grant, and that was one – that was installed at all their crossings that have sidewalks. And what that is, that's a sign that illuminates – it actually has logic from the railroad to tell you if there's a second train coming. Because what's happened in some cases is a pedestrian at a grade crossing will see a train go one way, and then the gates are still down. And they assume the gates are malfunctioning, and they go under the gates when they shouldn't. And sometimes what will happen is that train that just left would block their line of sight for the opposing train. So this is an additional warning that there's another train coming. It can also provide some benefit to motorists, too, if they're waiting and they think they're going to go around a gate because the gates are malfunctioning. But it's primarily – it provides a benefit to pedestrians that there's a train coming in the other direction within a certain time frame. MR. Thank you. Thank you. And I have one more question for Mr. Gorton. Tell us about the Dixie Highway crossing by Mariner Sands, and what might be unique about that crossing? MR. So that crossing, there's a couple of crossings like that one, but it's the opposite of what we were just talking about in Hobes Sound. That crossing doesn't have an intersecting street. It's just a straight road that – well, it's actually a reverse curve – but it's a road that goes over the tracks with no intersecting street. The other crossings that are similar to that are Skyline and Jensen Beach, County Line Road and Jensen Beach, and Jonathan Dickinson Park. Those are all in the same group of crossings that we identified as potential isolated crossings because of their lower risk. And the reason they have a lower risk is because there's nothing to do with the crossing itself. It has to do with what's just outside of the crossing. There's no intersecting street. So the crossing at the VFW or the Fruta Crossing has no intersecting streets near it. MR. Right. So that one is characterized by no intersection. It's also – it borders a state park. Just a lot of vacant land there. And then also the other thing is pedestrian traffic is very low. You know, like there aren't many people that cross that crossing on foot. MR. And not as many. We built a multi-use trail through the state park. It's part of the East Coast Greenway. And it goes through the state park and then comes out to the north end of Gomez. So that's where we direct our cyclists and pedestrians rather – there's no sidewalk there for pedestrian crossing at the tracks. MR. Good. That's all the questions I'll ask now. I think I'll wait to talk more after we're here from the public. MS. Commissioner Vargas. MS. You know, those are very, very thoughtful questions. Commissioner Capps, you asked a number of questions that I was going to ask. I see here that trespass – that that is something to be concerned about. And also, we had talked about this – touched on this last time we had this on our agenda about the 24-hour versus nighttime, 10 p.m. to 7 a.m. that certain crossings could be candidates for. Not all – and certainly not Johnson Beach Boulevard. At this point, I see the options here. And we did discuss that. Thank you so much, Mr. Ferguson, Mr. Gorton, in our meeting. Isolated crossing, similar to what we just spoke about, maybe Mariner Sands or maybe something near the park, or maybe there's a few in Jensen Beach. Those possibly could be considered. Is that of your opinion, both of you? Or do you disagree? MR. Well, the math works for a county-wide quiet zone. So if you take all of our crossings and average the risk index for all of the crossings, we could qualify for a crossing zone in the county. The ones that you just identified – the ones that you just identified are the ones that are definitely lower risk. MS. And that's what we're looking for. I know that we are reconfiguring Judson Beach Boulevard. I know the lighting. And of course, you know, you have the delineated poles there for traffic. What else are you doing there to – of course, you have flashing signs. There'd be signage. MR. Yeah, that is – so we talked about other intersections we want to study. That's on the next group that we want to study. So it's coming after the one – the slide that's on the screen right now is the current study that we completed. This would be the next one would be – would include Judson Beach Boulevard. MS. I see. So we're only considering this particular area today or county-wide? MR. No, we're considering county-wide. Any crossing in the county is available for direction from the board. MS. Okay. That's all I have for right now. MS. I see the sheriff has joined us. Sheriff, would you like to address us? MR. I'm not sure if I want to address you. MR. Commissioners, thank you for asking me to come here to today. Commissioner Hetherington, it's my last time to tell you thank you for your service. So congratulations on retirement, and thank you for what you've done. There's two of me here today. There's John Budenseek, the civilian. I'm a Hope Sounder, for those of you that don't know me. I currently live 715 feet from the railroad tracks, right where the train hits the horn before it goes into the bridge road Hope Sound crossing. As a kid, I lived 151 feet from the railroad tracks. And you could throw a rock from my house and hit the train. In fact, some of us may or may not have tried that. But I know what it feels like to feel like a freight train at that time was coming through your house. I know what the horn feels like. It's unsettling. It's extremely difficult to sleep. I'm a light sleeper as it is. And I get both sides of the argument. The other side of me is John the sheriff. And I'm the guy and our deputies here, Deputy Fennell and Deputy Palmer. We've all been out there and picked up little pieces of people that have been obliterated by these trains. And we're getting it more now because of the Brightline train. Truthfully, you saw the numbers. The numbers do reflect with having two tracks and the speed of that train coming through. It's been a problem. And I wish this meeting was about elimination of the Brightline train. But I know we don't have the ability to do that. So let me move on. I would be cautious. It's my understanding that these are not going to be these these safety measures are not going to be implemented for a period of time. I would be cautious not to eliminate one safety measure before we put the other ones in place. That would be my position. Keeping in mind that these numbers don't reflect how many people, how many trains at the Mark County Sheriff's Office or Stewart Police Department stop prior to engagement with either a civilian on the tracks or a vehicle on the tracks. It's almost every month or more that a person, especially up in your district commissioner, where somebody at Jensen Beach Boulevard turns and drives down the track southbound. It's either old people or drunk people. Yes, they do. And it's been a problem in Jensen and Hope Sound in some of our areas. So I realized a group of people that we're all affected by the train horn. I get that. And we're sober and we're not older for the most part. The people that are being hit by these trains are either intoxicated or they're trespassers or they're elderly people. I get that they are more vulnerable. In a lot of cases it's their fault. But I still don't like picking up the pieces of deceased people and loved ones that got hit by a train. So I know I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. I would be very cautious to eliminate the horn until we have better safeguards in place, but then keep the statistics of what's actually happening. If we're getting a lot of fatalities, I think we need to come back and meet again and dial it back and have a community hearing and lay the numbers out on the table. So again, it's my opinion from both sides. Caution you. The the railroad company has used that horn for a long time to keep people safe. I don't like it any more than the next guy does. But as a sheriff, I would be a little bit cautious to to do anything without having safeguards in place. So you have any questions of me? Questions for the sheriff. Thanks, Sheriff. Thank you. Thank you. We'll hear from the public now. Michael DiTerlisi. Mario Marino, followed by Laura DeBerrard. Marino 215 Northwest Flagler. I'm just you guys are a sounding board for everything and you're going to hear a lot of people say the same thing I hear. You know, they put up statistics about how many people were involved in incidents. Well, what you don't have or what you didn't tell us was how many people of that were committed suicide. How many people were drunk? You know, so the data only shows who got hit, but not why they got hit. And you can't fix stupid. If you have a if you have a police officer standing in the road and he puts his hand up and tells you to stop, you stop. You have a crossing guard who has a big red stop sign. You stop. You guys have red lights, bells, arms that come down and people go around it. And yet we, the public, are being penalized because even with the horn and they went around it, they're not stopping. The train can't stop. It's just going to drive right over them. So, you know, I live right up on that train track. And so we're we're inundated all night long, all day long with these sounds. And it's like you've got to do something. I mean, they're giving you options, maybe cut them down at the nighttime. And and I just have one question because I didn't know some of the things you were talking about, which was when you guys originally put in all of these conditions for the for the arms and the lights, you know, statistically, what was going to happen at that intersection when you put them in, because you put them in all over the country. So why did you take the shortcut when you first did it and not do everything you're talking about doing it now? It almost seems like you knew what could what could happen. And you said, hey, you know what, we're going to do it on the cheap and we'll let the federal government try to get a grant to do this. If you would have done it right the first time, we wouldn't be all sitting here trying to get this stopped. So I want to thank you for your time. And hopefully we come to some kind of agreement here. Thank you. Laura DeBerard is next, followed by Lynn Soucy. Good morning. Morning. Good morning. I have listened to the statistics, but one of the ones that I've not heard is how many cars actually pass over the railroad intersections in our county. We've talked about the accidents. We've talked about different aspects of the intersections, but not once have they listed the number of cars, the hundreds of thousands of cars that pass over the intersections that make the statistics actually quite safe. Railroad crossings are extremely safe. They have put in many, many safeguards to keep people from accidentally or intentionally killing themselves at intersections. I think that because all of our intersections now, 27 of them qualify for quiet zones, there should be a discussion about each one individually, because they can be individually designated as quiet zones, the way I understand it. And they're not permanent. You're only committing to two and a half years. In two and a half years, you can review whether the quiet zone is working or not. It seems only reasonable when the town is flooded with 5,400 horn blowings every day. That's just on the average day. I did the statistic. I did the math. We have 48 trains that go through the city of Stewart every day on an average. 200 horns are blown on our 27 intersections. That makes 5,400 horns that we hear somewhere in the county of Martin. Other counties have approved these. I understand that you're concerned about the liability, but let me just encourage you that just because a suit has been charged, that doesn't mean that they're going to win. I'd like to know how many cases were actually won against the railroad over the years, people that have made mistakes and killed themselves on train tracks. Just because you file a suit doesn't mean you get a judgment. My understanding is that eight of the crossings need more study. Why don't you just hold those back and approve the rest of the county to have quiet zones while you're working on the eight that need more study? That was what Mr. Gordon said. So I just thank you for consideration that our train track goes directly through the most valuable real estate in our county. In Indian River County, it's not the same thing. You can't compare our logistics to Indian River County accurately. Their train track does not go through their city. So thank you for listening. And I hope that you will consider individually relief for us that live near the county, live near the train tracks. Thank you. Lynn Soucy is next, followed by Terry Moore. Thank you very much for your opportunity to speak. I'm I want to also thank Commissioner Capps for giving me a heads up on this process and having a chance to review it in some more detail. I like what the what the sheriff has said is using the empirical events as to what has happened rather than what may happen and base your facts on on your decisions on facts that are empirical. In reading the other other information here, I'm most impressed with I call an electronics interface between the traffic light at an intersection and how we can talk to the train information rather than having to having this disconnect now. That makes a lot of sense to me. And you'll gather a lot of detail and information going forward so that the county can be even more safe than it is now. You use the word UPS there. I'm not sure I've got the right vocabulary, but that's the concept I think is terrific. I'd also like to look more deeply into the nighttime 10 10 p.m. to 7 a.m. period to see if that period is fixed. Could it be 10 to 6 a.m., shall I say? Because that would help, I think, the Bible School and other people going to work at different times. And the third thing, which is a personal one, I look at the intersections and the the equipment that's there. It's very impressive and it's very intimidating. It's over-designed, it's noisy, it's flashing. And then in the middle of it, you say, well, that gate must be a breakaway gate. And in fact, it is. And having met with these gentlemen before, I've confirmed to myself that if you are in trouble by being in the wrong space at the wrong time, just hit the accelerator. And yes, you will damage your windshield, but that's a lesser problem than you might have if you didn't. So I think that specific technique deserves some attention and some publicity on your side to relieve some of the anxieties people have just by driving across the intersection. Thank you. Thank you. Terry Moore is next, followed by Patricia Moore. My name is Terry Moore. Afternoon. Yeah. I'm sorry. I've been here since morning. Have y'all? Yeah. I live at, excuse me, I live at 1226 Northeast Ocean View Circle. A lot of you know where that is. 704 times a day. When I bought my house five years ago, I didn't plan on that. We didn't have Brightline at the time. And now we have nastiness. We can't sleep. You can't talk when you're outside at your front porch. You all know what I'm talking about. This is ridiculous. And this commission is doing the right thing because we're listening. You're listening, maybe. But are you hearing? Can we get this thing fixed? We need quiet zones in Jensen Beach, especially at Skyline and the other one county line. We got it. I mean, it's ridiculous. I'll leave it at that. Thank you very much. Take care of those guys down on Highline. They need it bad. Patricia Moore is next, followed by John Gahan. Thank you, commissioners, for hearing us. You can pull it down. There you go. I'm a short stuff. My husband and I moved here five years ago. It was the earliest we could get here. However, I did grow up in another state. Growing up, I went to school. And we learned as kids, stop, look, listen. Hello. You know, that's all the railroad is asking us to do, which is why they have all those wonderful safety features. We can stop, look, and listen. We don't have to hear 24 hours a day that noise in our ears. We moved to Jensen Beach to retire in a quiet fishing community. It's no longer quiet. Please restore our community and restore our quality of life. Thank you. Thank you. John Gahan is next, followed by Jeffrey Aderman. Good afternoon. Afternoon. I'm here as a resident at and a member of Mariner Sands Country Club, where I serve on the Board of Governors. And I'm speaking today on behalf of my community in their hopes that you will today designate a quiet zone at Southeast Dixie Crossing, which abuts the back entrance to our gate. I'm sure that all of you, when you decided to be elected to a commission, were doing it for one overriding reason. You were looking to try and make a positive influence on those who live or work in your community. We thank you for doing that, for giving of your time and for giving of your talent. The issues respecting quiet zones are known to you. You've heard from everybody in Martin County. You've heard from a lot of people at Mariner Sands, some of whom are here today. You know what the issues focus on, a quality of life uninterrupted with the horns, whether they be during the day or whether they be in the evening. Property values, which have decreased greatly over the last several years as we've had the horns. We have people who might wish to move into our community who sit there, and the first question is not what the price of the house is. It's do you hear the horns? Are you too close to the horns? How late do you hear the horns? That's what devalues people's property. And as we get older in life, other than the money we might have in our retirement account, the thing we most have as an asset is our home. It's our safety net. And if it's devalued, then our existence is devalued. Our residents at Mariner Sands, like you, try to give back. And I point out to you that one of the things in my community when we just did a strategic plan was that we all have a responsibility to give back to the communities in which we live. We try to do that in our community of Martin County by having a charity week where last year we raised over a quarter of a million dollars, which goes directly to the residents and the workers in Martin County. I just want to read you some of the places that we try to do our job in helping. Advocates for the Rights of the Challenge, Family Promise, Helping People Succeed, House of Hope, La Jolla, Little Lights Dentistry, the Martin County Council on Aging, Project LIFT and Safe Space. Why do I raise those? We're trying to do our part. And we're here today to ask you to try and help us. It's a week after Election Day. I'm reminded of a story that I came from the Northeast, but there was a very famous politician who lost a local election for city councilor by a few votes. Sir, your time is up. But? Sounds like a good story. I'd love to hear that. Sure. Yes. So the gentleman who lost went out the next day and he was talking to his neighbor and he said, well, it doesn't look like I, I succeeded, but at least I got your vote. And the neighbor looked and said, well, I don't know why you would assume that. And he said, well, you know me, you know what I stand for. And so of course I assumed you'd vote for me. We're not going to make that assumption. We're asking for your vote. That's why we're here. We know you know the issues. Try and help us. Thank you. Thank you. Jeffrey Aderman is next, followed by Doug Roberts. Good afternoon. How are you doing? Great. I'd just like to let everybody know that our hearts and thoughts are with everybody with the flooding going on. This is kind of overshadowing what we've got going on here, but we've been doing this for almost two years now, trying to get quiet zones. Stacey, thanks for all you've done and all your awesomeness you've done for the county here over the years. And it'd be awesome to have your legacy as your vote yes on quiet zones and hopefully two or maybe three more of you guys to vote yes on that. Everybody said pretty much everything that I wanted to say, but the thing is engineers are more than welcome to blow their horns when they see something ahead of them on the tracks. They don't need to blow them because there's nothing going on in front of them. In an emergency, they're required to and they can blow all all they want. Coming in today, I also, Mr. Gordon, I learned that all of our crossings are pretty much ready to go. Palm Beach County has one and a half million people in their county, 114 crossings, all quiet zones pretty much. We have 165,000 people here in Martin County and about 27 crossings. Let's make this happen. Got thousands of signatures from people. We just want peace and quiet. We want our quality of life and we hope that our commissioners here feel the same way and vote yes today on at least getting it started for us. Thank you. Doug Roberts is next, followed by Doug Farley. Hi, good afternoon everybody. Thank you for letting me present today. I appreciate it. My name is Doug Roberts. On behalf of Friends of Mariner Sands Country Club, I was subjected to repeated Bright Line and Florida East Coast Railroad trains throughout the night. Let me start with one thing. So last night I got up at 953, 245, 423, and 527. Not because I'm a light sleeper, but it's because I had a front row at a rock concert. I don't represent the railroad, sir. 27,000 people. Well, it was quoted in your presentation, so nothing personal. Yeah, for it does not run quiet zone, so. Okay. But, you know, there's 27,000 people, as quoted by the prior speakers, that live within a half mile of these tracks. So you've heard this a couple of times. It's an amazing quality of life story and challenge. And that's just, you know, in the evening. It's all day. It's nonstop. So my question to the team out here, and I appreciate all the work you're doing and the challenges the county's facing right now. But I wanted to ask a personal question. Would you and your family be willing to tolerate train horns outside the home, you know, day and night, 2 a.m., 3 a.m., 4 a.m., 5 a.m., and 6 a.m., seven nights a week, 52 weeks a year? And how long would you be willing to tolerate that without understanding that relief is coming? Well, that's kind of where we are. We appreciate the efforts, the detail, the great question that the team has asked here. But we're really asking for this to be maybe fast-tracked, no pun intended. But it really is challenging to people out there today. And some questions came up before regarding risk and liability, and I get all that. But the bottom line is, we're not doing anything new in the country. There's 1,016 quiet zones in the country. So I assume there's some precedent set and others, as sharp as this group, have looked at the liability and weighed the pros and the cons and the challenges and things like that. So I think that should be taken into consideration. And also, it's been done locally. So we've got Jupiter established quiet zones at six crossings in 2025. We've got St. Lucie County establishing quiet zones in 2025. Delray, Boca Raton, Lake Worth, Boynton Beach, and more. So I don't think these are anything that's really crazy and experimental. But I think there are things that are proven, and they do balance safety with the quality of people's lives. So thank you so much for everything. I appreciate it. Stacy, congratulations on your retirement. And my thoughts and prayers go out to all those affected by the flood. Thank you. Doug Farley is next, followed by Doug Hess. Yeah, you have to be named Doug in order to walk. Good afternoon. The presentation was a lot to unpack. Thanks very much. You guys have a hard job. You make important decisions on a lot of important things. A lot of those decisions are hard to come to a proper decision. I think part of that reason is because things get overcomplicated. I think both the potential problem for danger at the intersection and its fix is overly complicated by the Federal Rail Commission. No offense. It's actually kind of simple. To me, it's important to understand that the intersection is not some kind of complicated puzzle of Rubik's Cube. It's a car being on the tracks. And the fix is to keep that car off the tracks. The fix for the Federal Railroad Commission's fix is 30 pages. 30 pages of diagrams and charts and data. I can see that being very confusing. I can see that being almost overwhelming. I can see that making it harder to make a decision that you're comfortable with. So in an attempt to make your decision for a quiet zone where you feel good about it, where you're more comfortable about it, let me explain how it's actually easy. It's not so complicated. So the first picture shows, the first picture shows the liability. Can you guys see this? This is simple. There's only one, there's only one. The person who's driving a car who wants to behave like a toddler, I mentioned this in one of the other meetings, simply drives around the gate. There's the problem. There's the liability. Even if the horn is blowing, and it is, he hears the horn, he's going to go anyway. How do we fix this? How do we fix this potential liability? Again, this makes it easy to make a decision. Of all this data, all these charts, all these graphs, this is what works. These four gates. From sidewalk to sidewalk, it blocks the intersection. It physically blocks the intersection. Now you're safe. I challenge anyone here, any of these experts, to explain to me how a horn is necessary here. How a horn can help you. Why would you blow a horn when you're already physically detained behind the street? That's the safety improvement example of one. Aha! Safety improvement. I don't know if I'm supposed to engage with the commentary. If it's positive, please. So with the safety zone upgrades, these four gates, you can comfortably make a decision to make it quiet for people that live in Martin County. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to give you three for three. Hi, my name is Doug Hess, and I live on the ocean view circle, and Stacy, I've known her since she's 12. I've been here barrel racing days with his mother and father, and good luck to you as well. I have this one little statement. I don't know of any place you can go that's in a quiet zone that wants horns. I mean, I've never heard anybody that lives in a quiet zone goes like, I miss the horns. Let's bring them back. Come on. So I know there's a lot of work involved, and you can't change stupidity from anybody. And I'd be willing to not know the facts, but how many accidents or crashes have been on the train tracks for gate malfunctions? I think, I don't know of any. I mean, I've never heard of a that fire truck down in Pointon Beach that went over the tracks. Three million dollar fire truck demolished on the railroad tracks. And what, you know, what was that all about? I mean, there's this it's stupid. What's that? Yeah. So I mean, that's all I got to say. But good luck. And I like to have the quiet zones myself. And I think it would increase the value of the life across the county. Thank you very much. Matt Malloy is next, followed by Robert Booth. Afternoon. Good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity to share today. My name is Matt Malloy. I'm the president of Hobe Sound Bible College in Hobe Sound. And it's good to see some familiar faces here on the commission. I just wanted to just kind of share a little bit about our perspective. A lot of our constituents, of course, cross specifically those Hobe Sound crossings multiple times a day, whether it would be parents of our students or our employees. Also, we have a number of students that are young drivers learning, you know, just kind of having their driver's license for just a few few years. Additionally, I like Sheriff Booth and Seek live very close to the railroad tracks right there in Hobe Sound. I hear the horns all throughout the day. I do appreciate the efforts that are being made for them to put have to get to acquire this grant to put extra safety measures in place. And I guess I would just caution us as well to just go specifically for the quiet zone in Hobe Sound, wait until we would have those safety, extra safety measures put in place before we would move to quiet zones at Hobe Sound locations. Just because of the amount of young drivers that we have, especially in that area, there's lots of schools in that area as well with the Early Learning Center, the Hobe Sound Elementary School, our Christian Academy. And so I would just really ask that we would just be cautious in eliminating the horns in those zones until this grant goes through and we can get extra safety measures in place. Thank you. Robert Booth is next, followed by Harold Martin. Good afternoon. Good afternoon, Commissioners. My name is Robert Booth, and I'm the principal of Hobe Sound Christian Academy on Southeast Gomez Avenue. I understand why our neighbors are concerned about train noise. I share their concern and frustration. As we discuss quiet zones today, as you discuss quiet zones today, I'd like to share what's on my mind as principal whose school is close to the railroad. When I think about the bridge road crossing, I think about morning drop-off and afternoon dismissal. Parents are watching traffic, looking for a quick turn. Some of our young people our new drivers' children are walking or riding their bikes across the tracks. In those busy moments, there's a lot for everyone to pay attention to. The train horn provides a warning that people can hear even when their eyes are somewhere else. I'm concerned about what happens for our children when that routine warning is gone. I understand that an engineer can still sound the horn in an emergency. What I keep coming back to is the moment before it becomes an emergency. A driver may be watching the car ahead and miss a signal. A student may hear a train before they can see it. In those moments, an audible warning can matter. As principal, I spend a lot of time thinking about how our students get to school and how they get home. For some of our families, that means going over the railroad tracks twice a day, at least twice a day. And that's why I changed to the warnings at those crossings during the daytime is something that I take seriously. Thank you for listening and for considering this perspective for our school community. Thank you. Harold Martin is next, followed by Robert S. Thank you, Commissioners, and good afternoon. Hope Sound resident for 45 years, lived within the earshot of the train the whole time. And Sheriff Rudensick and I may have thrown rocks at the train together at one point. And a lot of history in Hope Sound. I currently live on the west side of the tracks, but I've lived on the east side as well. I work on the east side. And my concerns are somewhat with my offices down near the schools. I don't work for any of the schools, but right down there at the south end of Gomez Avenue where it's a zoo every morning starting at about 6 45 and then again every afternoon. My family, my wife and I and my two sons, we cross the Hope Sound. And I'm mainly speaking about the town crossings. The other crossings I'm not over all that often, but conservatively we're crossing those 12 to 15 times a day. Personally, four to six times a day. And I am so excited. The light is coming at CrossRip. That's about 20 years past due. I hear the accidents from my house and that is going to be huge. And the signal preemption, I think, is the single most important part of this discussion. And where I'm headed is once these safety measures are in, I think the quiet zones make sense, but they don't before then. I personally, my wife has, and then one of my sons as well, I talked to him last night. We've all seen incidents, and I don't mean metal on metal, okay, but cars being stuck on the tracks at CrossRip. It's a terrible intersection, especially since they put in the turning lanes. That signal preemption is going to be huge. The car on the west side of the tracks pulls up. The gates go down. The car that's on the tracks can't back up. He can't go forward. And A1A is a zoo, especially for the rush hour in the morning and in the evening. So safety is layered, as we know. And so when we come to each of the crossings, we have the visible warning, the barrier. And then we have lights that flash. And we have reflective tape. And then we have an audible warning with the clanging of the bells and the audible horn. And it just, I don't see how it promotes safety to take away really the only warning that you can hear inside the car, unless you're considerably close to the gates. So I could subscribe to the nighttime. But I believe, if I'm not mistaken, that the, it's a hard, it's 10 a.m. to 7 a.m., or 10 p.m. to 7 a.m., and those are the only options. And that just won't cut it for the schools, because things are already well underway by 630, 645. And so that just wouldn't cut it. So my recommendation would be to wait until the additional safety measures are in place and then take this issue up again. God forbid one of the frequent incidents become a fatal accident because an important time-proven piece of safety system was removed prematurely. Thank you. Thank you. Robert E. Schill something? Schiller. Okay. The last request to speak form I have is from Frank McChrystal. If anyone else would like to address us, please fill out our request to speak form and get it to one of the bailiffs. Hello again. I've lived like four different places in Martin County. Heard the train horn in various degrees from each of my homes. We live in a world where the human is de-evolving. The de-evolution of the human race is right before our very eyes. Driving is no longer a single unity. I'm driving now. Driving has become just part of multitasking. When you come to a train intersection, you gotta have a horn. I mean, the horns in today's world, again, for reasons I just described, humans are not getting any smarter. All right? They're just not. And they need everything possible to show them there's a train coming. Okay? And that train horn, that does the job. So I'm reminded of like when I bought my latest house in the city of Stewart and I knew how close it was to Witham Field. I did my research. I knew the flight pass depending on the wind. And I only hear jets five to six days out of the year when the pilot has the option of using 1634 instead of 1230. But I knew that. I researched that. Okay? And so trains don't dump jet fuel on you. Trains don't fly over your house. Planes don't fall out of the, trains don't fall out of the sky. So, uh, you know, a little noise, keep the horns. Thank you. Susan O'Rourke is next. And Ms. O'Rourke is the last request to speak for him. It looks like Mr. Shoemaker wants to talk to us too. No. Good afternoon. Afternoon. I just very briefly, I'm Susan O'Rourke. I'm a traffic engineer. And, um, I had talked to a number of these people previously and offered my support for the quiet zones. And I just want to put a little perspective on what we're dealing with. We talked about a number of accidents associated with the rail crossings. We have a number of intersections and not to diminish any accident or harm to human life. Um, but in, in comparison to what we deal with on our roads, it's a smaller number. Um, and I, I just think that people, maybe there's some misunderstanding, but if you're, you're starting a process doesn't mean it all is going to happen at one time or the money's going to be there. It's just knowing that it's forthcoming, that there's a, a desire to solve this problem. And I think when you put it in perspective of the number of accidents, these solutions that are being proposed, and I think there might be a little misunderstanding, no one's proposing that these train horns stop before appropriate safety measures are in place. And in fact, without the safety measures in place, there can't be a quiet zone. So, you know, I know there are different elements that would be layered on that perhaps are not part of the quiet zone. But in order to get the quiet zone, there's a complete, and I think it was Doug Farley who showed those, those pictures with the gates and protecting the sidewalks so that people can't physically cross. So it's only when you get to that level of protection that the horn can be removed. So I, I would support the county within whatever financial means are available to us that, that this be added to the process and that where the safety measures are implemented in accordance with the quiet zone rules that we begin the prioritization of those quiet zones. Thank you very much. Larry Wright is next. And Mr. Wright is the last request to speak for him. I have. Thank you very much for allowing me to come up here at this late time. Just some things have occurred to me during this conversation this morning about what we hear and what we don't hear. We continue to talk about the elimination of the horns. Uh, and that would necessarily eliminate all noise that people might hear and afford them to stop at, at a signal inter, uh, uh, location. These trains that come through at night. I'm talking about the freight trains, not Brightline. Brightline is a daytime, uh, event into the evening. I understand that, but late at night, uh, when you're trying to sleep, these trains are every 20 minutes or, certainly every hour. Uh, and you're talking about thousands and thousands of pounds of metal on metal. So if you hear that, you understand that you, you can't possibly sleep during that event. And I think we're just for, uh, not focused on the issues we need to focus on here. There's still a lot of noise that tells you there is a train coming at night. So, uh, please take that into consideration. Frank Bowman is next. And Mr. Bowman is the last request to speak for him. I have. He changes mind. No. Okay. So I don't see. Okay. Sorry. Okay. Sorry. Uh, Commissioner Hetherington. Thank you very much. Uh, I would like to say too, I, I'm a proponent that we can do both by, we can balance quality of life and we can have safe crossings. I'm also a proponent that we could have countywide quiet zones. Um, I had a couple of questions that came up during the conversation and Rory, thank you. Uh, last year you spent a couple hours with me explaining some of these things. And based on the presentation today, I had a couple questions and I'll lay them out there because you might be able to answer them, um, in one shot. So, um, one, explain the difference between, um, I know Ms. DeBerard talked about each intersection versus a quiet zone. So I wanted you to be able to explain, um, how you would implement zones, but it doesn't go by each intersection if I'm not wrong. Secondarily, um, time frame on the slide. If Eric, you could put that slide with the options back up, it talks about 18 to 24 months. That seems like a long time based on the conversation Rory, you and I had last year on implementing quiet zones. So I wanted you to just touch on that. What's entailed in that? And, um, could we implement some of these quiet zones much quicker than 18 to 24 months? Uh, thirdly of the math, you mentioned that there's a formula that talks about how we, um, the average score and how we effectively can qualify for quiet zone. So I'd like to see the math for that. And, uh, is there anything that we can do to start the process of, uh, quiet zones while we implement the, uh, safety measures, which I think the safety measures that Commissioner Capps laid out in Hope Sound are, um, valuable and warranted. Could we start this quiet zone process while we're implementing those safety measures? Okay. Thank you. Uh, several questions. Uh, the first one was about establishment. And so the regulation has set criterias to prevent just, we don't want like a laissez-faire type establishment. It's very much regimented in how you do it. There's minimum distances to prevent, um, railroad crossings in quiet zones being immediately adjacent to crossings that are not in quiet zones. It would be very ineffective if you have a crossing in a zone and then 300 feet down the track, the next crossing is not in the quiet zone. So part of it is a very, it's a very technical problem where it's not a problem. It's how the regulation works. The railroad is given one quarter mile before the crossing to whistle for it. Do that, that cadence, that long, long, short, long, and they get, they have to do it for 15 to 20 seconds. That's the, we call the routine whistling. That's what everyone's hearing. They whistle for the crossing as a matter of routine, whether there's a car there or not, two o'clock in the morning, two o'clock in the afternoon, they blow the horn. So, and the quiet zone eliminates that. And so what we have is that quarter mile box before the crossing. If there's any other crossings whistle boundary that overlaps that box, that adjacent cross has to be incorporated into the zone. So that kind of prevents a checkerboard of crossings being in and out of quiet zones. And you kind of get blocks of crossings that way, just organically. And that makes it an effective quiet zone. And those quiet zones are calculated together with the calculation. That's what the calculation, it's a tabulation of trains, train speed, vehicle counts. Every crossing does have a traffic count and it is maintained as part of the process as getting it accurate. The five year action history, road type, a couple of data points. And we get that risk index with horns, as we call it. You take the train horn away, the risk goes up. The train horn has a measured value. And if I'm going off your questions, I'm sorry, you asked me some very complicated questions. Time frames. So I think you are starting to... I'm on the, like, how you get the individual crossings and then the calculation. They all kind of relate, actually. The train horn has a percentage value for our formula in the rule, which is part of the actual hard written language of the law. Else, everywhere but the Fort East Coast Railway, the risk goes up by 66.8%. Specifically on the Fort East Coast Railway, due to historic crossing safety issues, it goes up by 90.9%. And now you have your new score, your quiet zone risk index. This, to reduce that risk, back down to the qualifying limit, which is at the same or lower than the original horn score, you use supplemental safety measures, which is the gentleman that had the photograph there of the four quadrant gates. That's an example of a supplemental safety measure that has a hard risk reduction that's applied to that crossing, which affects the quiet zone average. So the more crossings you have in the zone, the more average you have to play with. The more risk reduction you have, the better, the more likely you are to be able to establish by the calculation. So to answer your question about what the calculation is, it depends on which crossings you're going to use and which supplemental safety measures they have or you're going to include by the time of establishment. And that's how it zones are calculated. And then with the minimum distance rule, it kind of sets your boundaries. There's a physical line on a map where quiet zone begins and ends with that minimum distance rule and the whistle boundary box. The answer, two of the questions, I think. The calculation of the qualification. Do we qualify currently? I have not seen the calculator results. And there is kind of like what scenario you're going to go with, then you can answer the question. The data is available and I have worked with staff. And we have an online tool. It's very easy to use. Eric, do you have the calculation of how we deem whether we qualify? I don't have the numbers on me, but I ran the calculator myself, ran some scenarios. Okay. The spreadsheet that we looked at together, can you put that up? Can I get to the T drive from this? Yeah, you can get to it. I think. Can we get to the T drive? Oh, the calculator. While he's doing that, then I could you talk about the time frame? Yes. Refresh me on the other questions. Time frame. So on the options, it says 18 to 24 months. Can we start the process of quiet zones while we implement safety? And then 18 to 24 months, that seems like a long time. What goes into that? For the FRA, we're more reacting to what the public authority is doing. We provide information and technical assistance. We do participate in the diagnostics, which is field inspections to make sure the crossings are physically compliant with the regulation. A lot of the timeline is dependent upon the speed of yourselves. With the exception, if you do an application to the FRA, which is a certain type of quiet zone, which I'm not sure you guys are going down that path because it's a separate process, that can add time that the FRA takes up. There is some comment period we have to provide 60-day comment periods for for those applications. And then if there's any questions or amendments to that application, it requires another comment period. But if you're doing the self – they're all self-established. If you're doing just the non-application establishment, as soon as you're qualified, you can establish. It's all self-driven. We call it self-establishment because the FRA doesn't actually establish the quiet zone. The public authority does. We just make sure you're not breaking the law before you do it. So if the math works, and then you've done all the paperwork, that's really where it is. And no, that's two easy things, but there's actually quite a bit of you know, getting other public authorities to agree to your quiet zone can be the challenge. State of Florida, you know, the counties, they're going to want – you're asking for a written agreement to something, and who's going to be in charge of the crossing, things like that. Maintenance. If you're going to upgrade crossings, that could be a challenge with the railroad. If you have to change the crossing warning devices, they are in control, and they maintain those, and then there's a cost with those. But off the crossing, the highway signs, things like that, that's more directly under your guys' direct purview. But the FRA doesn't try to slow you down with – you know, if you call and say, hey, I want an inspection, I'm going to come and schedule it as soon as possible. To do it sooner than 24 months. And then finally – It's not like it's a rule. Eric is giving you a worst-case scenario, I think, because some quiet zones have taken that long because of unforeseen problems that didn't appear until it happened, and some are administrative, some are bureaucratic, crossing-related. But there have been quiet zones established much quicker than that, for sure. So currently, based on this methodology, this math, do we qualify for quiet zones? Can you explain? Well, you see the – is it being displayed? Okay. So the north – let me just go through the third column, max allowable risk. That's the number we need to be below. The fifth column, that's what we get from the calculator. So the fifth – so that's when we run the calculator? That's with ASMs, correct? Yeah. Okay. And then this – this is the number we need to be below in a third. So the north and south county options would require gates to be added. And that's – you get the most benefit if you apply a gate or a median at a higher – a higher volume crossing, like Indian Street would – because Indian Street has Railroad Ave next to it. There's a potential that someone could go up and turn the wrong way. So those two would require construction, working with FEC. That's one of the reasons for the longer timeline that they would have to install the gate. It would have to – it has to be engineered, designed. The countywide option does meet with no construction. It would just be slightly below the 49,000 when I ran it, and we had 43,000. But one thing is we did look at the – you know, there's a – the calculator, from my understanding, is a living – it's somewhat living if there's another – the data changes if there's a crash. It's live data. It's live data. If there's another crash, say, Confusion Corner, that could change the numbers. When we ran it, we – a couple of the City of Stewart crossings, we don't have to be recounted. The number – their traffic volume seemed reasonable. So what we ran was – the next option was if we were to install the improvements we identified in the north and south county options. But the countywide would qualify. It's a little – the number's a little bit close, to answer your question. Could you – could you do south and north county together? So what's the difference between isolated on your proposal, an isolated crossing? So with – yeah, the quiet zones, they're all independently treated. One – one does not relate to the other mathematically – administratively, anything. They're completely isolated. So if you do one in the south, it has no bearing. If you gap crossings and you skip the City of Stewart, for example, and do a north county zone, they're completely separate. So there's no correlation. And I also like to point out just with what Erica is showing me here. These are with – we call alternative safety measures. Now these are proposed risk reductions. This is where that application, the FRA, would come into play. And that could – that can vary in timeline. Depends on how well your application is submitted and the content of it. Like, I can't give you an honest answer. I'm told it's no less than four months to process an application. But if there's complications or questions or disagreements, they can take more time. But the ASMs are not hard written to the rule, the proposals. And then the FRA engineers have to review it and agree or disagree with the risk proposal. And then once it's agreed upon, then it could be established. But what – the methodology here being used is what we call modified SSMs. You're taking basically pieces of already approved safety measures. You're saying, well, hey, if I got a three-quadrant gate versus a full four-quadrant gate, well, that's worth half the value of that. And so I want half of that. And then on your side, I got a median. I want half the value for the median SSM on this side. Combine it to make this total percentage. That's a proposal. And the FRA will assess it and determine that that's actually viable. And that's one method. That's Palm Beach Gardens did that, actually. They have the same configuration or crossings where one side has exit gates, the other side has a median. They made a proposal, and they're their zone had enough risk reduction to establish. And that did take them a long time, though. There was quite a delay with that. My final question for now. I'm not sure if you touched on it. I'm sorry if I'm going all over the place here. That's all right. No, you and I can talk for hours. So could you start implementing the quiet zone application process while you're doing the safety upgrades? No. You have to have it before you can submit for it. So proposals are nice, but if it's not physically present, it can't be assessed. But according to that, we meet the safety requirements. That's a proposal. That's his plan. And so if those safety measures are already there, those half measures that he's proposing, yeah, those are absolutely, yeah, you can put them on paper and submit it. But if they're not built, then you've still got to install them. Okay. I'm good for now. Thank you. Commissioner Campi. Okay. Let's get down to it. The accidents and the statistics that you showed on the chart were happening with the horns. So that's not like there were none, and now there could potentially be some. When we had the meeting, I had an opportunity to speak with our staff and then Mr. Newton and someone from FDOT, and I specifically asked the gentleman individually, do you have a personal or professional issue with us having quiet zones? You said no. I have no opinion is my answer to that. Okay. No opinion, which is not a no, like you shouldn't do it. I'm not for, I'm not for against you to have a quiet zone. I'm only here to help you establish one properly. Appreciate that. And I, you know, I think we announced you and we know that you're from the FRA, but how long you've been with them? What's your function at the FRA? Can you give us a little? Certainly. I'm a railroad safety inspector. That means I'm a sworn position. We do have authority over railroads, including, including the quiet zone rule for enforcement of the federal regulations related to that. I've been doing this about, I think it started my sixth year. Prior to that, I was a railroad police officer for almost 10 years. I served in the military for that. So I've been in with the railroad my whole life. My railroad was, my father was a railroader for 35 years. So I've been around trains and safety my whole life. Okay. I appreciate that. I like the fact that what my friend and colleague, Commissioner Capps, had said about the grant, what the frustration about the grant and all of those needed construction improvements is that's five years from now, anticipated to begin five years from now. I think that it would be very difficult for us with a straight face to tell the residents that that's going to be the answer. I like that they will be done. And as some of the historic members of the community had said, long overdue for some of those. And I appreciate that Commissioner Capps is pushing, you know, every commissioner shows up with a different kind of a mindset. And he's there, and he's going to get some of those things done. One of the suggestions was, is that we just focus specifically on the Mariner Sands one. Now, I don't have a crystal ball, but what I would tell you is that next meeting, all of the other communities will show up and wonder where was theirs. And then they would say, well, you gave it to the, you know, the fancier higher end neighborhoods or your friends, but you weren't worrying about all of us. So I would tell you right off the bat, I'm interested in all of them. Because there's people here from Dixie and down in Mariner Sands and Hobe Sound, but there's also folks here from Jensen Beach. I think the last, at the last meeting, they even invited us to come for dinner. Yeah. Some of my questions during our meeting said that quite a few of the crossings are already ready to go for quiet zones. They do meet the criteria. Well, they would have the safety measure that gives you risk reduction that helps your calculation. And they are done. So it's not like we got to start from scratch and start doing all 27. No, the Brightline project has lended itself to a lot of communities, the ability to establish a quiet zone with spending money on grade crossings themselves. Them installing four quadrant gates for their own needs is a benefit. You guys can take advantage of it. Right. Well, they're the ones that ran the train through our quiet community. Right. So with that in mind, then there are some that, as during our meeting, you discussed Confusion Corner, the Jensen Beach Boulevard intersection there, the Cove Road on your way towards Miles Grand. Those are a little more tricky. I get that. They would require additional time. I get that. But to Commissioner Heatherington's point, let's get started. You know, I think the residents would leave here today relatively happy knowing that they got a favorable vote that the commissioners heard and understood what their request was and that the process has begun versus potentially kicking the can down the road. Mr. Gordon said, you know, the next question, the big question, especially with the passage of Amendment 3, is how do you pay for it? How will you pay for it? But Mr. Gordon did say that if you could go back, Eric, to the one that showed north-south all, that the financing would not necessarily be a tremendous issue. The all-in version, the county-wide version full, is 650,000. Imagine being able to improve the quality of life for, what did we say, 27,000 people that were within earshot for $650,000 on a budget that's more than $800 million. That's one of the, and look, I get it. It's everyone's money. All of our five, all of you, all, majority of our staff live and work in the same community. That's a very reasonable ask in terms of money. If you had said, look, it's $18 million, I'd say, we're going to have a problem. 650,000. Commissioner Heatherington said it. Let's get started in terms of maybe they won't take that long. And I appreciate that Mr. Ferguson said, look, I'm giving you the outside date so it doesn't look like in 18 months. You say, why aren't you done? I'm in Palm City, and on a quiet night, depending on the way the breeze is blowing, we can hear train whistles. I cannot imagine living near it. Now, let's talk about the value of your homes. Mariner Sands, look, there's a lot of gorgeous neighborhoods, but Mariner Sands is gorgeous. The new clubhouse, spectacular. But imagine you're a real estate agent, or you're a prospective home buyer, and you want to move to Mariner Sands. And while you're there, you hear that blast. I'm not going there. And that's got to be taken into consideration. It's beyond a quality of life. It's a financial decision that we have now. The sheriff was the first one to say it. He said, look, I wish we could stop the train. Well, we can't. But what the five of us can do is sort of make the adverse effects of that train that's coming through the community a little bit easier for you. I don't think you've asked for much. And I hope, you know, look, I'm probably, I, you know, many of you are just starting this process with us. We're not allowed to speak to each other. We cannot go into each other's offices. I can't text Commissioner Vargas. I can't call Commissioner Hurd on the phone and say, what do you think about this? We're legally not allowed to speak to each other. It's called the Sunshine Law. Many people have never heard of that. They're shocked that we don't know each other's opinions and that we're up here blind of what each other is thinking. And I hope I'm not frustrating my colleagues. But there's five of us for a reason. We come with different perspectives and opinions. And then you need three. Sometimes you'll get five. Sometimes you'll get one. I hope we come up with three. And it's not meant to disrespect my colleagues that might have a different perspective. The folks from the Hobestown Bible College, I love those people. I mean, it's a great asset in our community. I know they've stepped out. And I'm not saying let's just let, you know, throw the chips down and see what happens. Let's continue to do it. But hopefully a couple of my colleagues will agree that we should start it. I would tell you one thing, and I think everyone will agree, it's not going to get less expensive to do it in the future. It's only going to get more expensive. So let's do the whole county. Because one of the things that Mr. Newton did say is they don't like piecemeal. Today, he called it liese fair. They don't want to do piecemeal. They go, okay, we'll do this one. And then again, then we'll do another one. He wants it. He wants it. And so did FDOT said the same thing. So I would make a motion that we request staff to begin the process effectively and safely to create quiet zones as quickly as possible everywhere they can in a safe manner. And then on the ones that are more challenging, immediately begin the process of doing the engineering work to figure out what is necessary. The couple that are part of the city of Stewart, you asked about who should be responsible for the maintenance. I hear a lot of talk about faded signs. We don't allow faded signs in Martin County. Stop sign, traffic sign, speed limit sign. We don't do it. We're certainly not going to have faded signs on the railroad tracks. I'm pretty sure we can get over that one. What I would say, however, is to speak to our colleagues at the city of Stewart and tell them that we should take the lead in doing them for the entire county, you know, from an engineering point of view and a maintenance point of view. But they would be responsible for paying their fair share of the expense of the ones that are within the city of Stewart. And if they don't have the money, we push in quite a bit of CRA funding money that we raise for them. Maybe we can offset their expense of the safety zones with some kind of, I'll leave that to the finance people, but I don't think the county should pay for the city of Stewart's work. But I think the county, as we've done with other projects where the city's taken the lead on road projects, what's that called? LAP? LAP project. We should handle their safety zones similar to how we handle LAP projects on behalf of another municipality. And that would be my motion. MR. Substitute motion. MS. I'll second the motion. MR. I said substitute motion first. MR. Well, I didn't realize we're doing clockwork. MS. Commissioner Capps. MR. With regard to the notion of having countywide quiet zones, I'd like to have Mr. Gorton tell us a little bit more about the most dangerous crossings in Martin County, particularly Jensen Beach Boulevard and the city of Stewart, confusion corner, and other ones that are really dangerous. And I would certainly not be comfortable having quiet zones at those. But tell us about those. MR. So when we run the risk index for the crossings in Martin County, the crossings that have the highest risk index are – is Jensen Beach Boulevard has the highest, Indian Street, confusion corner, and – MR. Indian town. MR. Cove is – MR. Yeah, Cove Road. So all the ones that have roundabouts are in the higher risk. I know that the city of Stewart – I read the article as well about them getting the grant, the $1.6 million grant. And in that article, it said that in confusion corner and in sale for circle if you add the total number of car accidents – not car versus train, but car versus car – it's in the hundreds in the last five years. So they do want to redesign those. But those are the – the intersections that have roundabouts plus Indian Street are the ones that have the highest risk index. MR. Then one other question. In prior discussions, we identified three crossings in Martin County that do not have an intersection, and that those are lower risk, namely Dixie Highway behind Mariner Sands. And then there were two in Jensen Beach, north of Jensen Beach Boulevard, that are just kind of in the neighborhoods, and they don't have intersections. Tell us about those. MR. So those two are North County Line Road and Skyline Road. And then the other crossing is Palmetto, which is a crossing that only serves three houses. And then the last one would be the Dixie Highway crossing at the VFW. MR. Is there – can you differentiate a little bit about the ones in Jensen and any concerns we might have with those? Are there a couple of those that are less concerning than others? MR. The two northernmost ones in Jensen have no intersecting street, so they – and they also have fairly low risk index ratings. MR. Okay. I'm going to make a substitute motion that we approve quiet zones at the two northernmost crossings in Jensen. Those are the ones you just mentioned, right? MR. As well as pursuing a quiet zone at Dixie Highway behind Mariner Sands, and that those would be the only three that we pursue at this time. We can always add more zones at a later time. MR. Are they at 24 hours? MR. Okay. Is that a matter? MR. Well, with regard to nighttime versus 24-hour, from what I've understood is that there are no nighttime crossings that have been passed in the whole state of Florida at this point. Is that right, Mr. Newton? MR. Correct. There are no – well, the quiet zones in Florida, none of them are – we call partial quiet zones. They're all 24-hour. MR. Right, right. MR. And that's just a – that's honestly just a local decision. It doesn't change the calculation or anything else. It's just what you prefer. MR. Okay. Well, that – my motion would stand that those would be 24-hour quiet zones at the two in Jensen and the one on Dixie Highway by Mariner Sands. MS. I – are we ready to vote? MR. Well, Madam Chair – MR. I take a second for Commissioner Capps. MR. Prior to that, I made a motion and it was seconded. MR. No, no, no. MR. No, no. He countered. MR. Okay. Listen, then that's fine. MR. I made a substitute motion first. MR. That's fine. MR. Substitute. MR. We'll be having this meeting again next week with other residents. But let me just say this with all due respect to my colleagues. MS. So you can do the substitute after it's seconded. It's based on your rules of procedure. So – MS. Should we vote on the first? MR. No. Not if I – not if I did a substitute MR. No, no. MR. That's fine. MR. I don't want to get into the weeds with who votes and who doesn't. MS. So I'm saying that even if it was seconded, a substitute motion can be recognized. MR. Perfectly fine. That's all I'm letting you – MR. I don't think anyone's interested in watching this sausage making. MR. Nice to you. MR. However, what I would tell you is you're picking three when there's 27. And I understand what my colleague is saying about some of them are very challenging and engineering-wise difficult. But if there was three or four that he mentioned, so 23 people, 23 different crossings will suffer the consequences because four of them are difficult. And the second – the substitute motion is to pick three. You know, I hear my colleague Commissioner Hurd say many times she's not interested in picking winners and losers. Talk about picking winners and losers. Let me just tell you what the future is. Everyone that lives next to one of these quiet zone crossings that doesn't, that is not going to be on the list, will be here at our next meeting. Because if you heard – MR. Let's ramp up, please. MR. I'm entitled to speak. If you heard or read in the newspaper that a crossing up the county from you got a quiet zone, but 21 of them didn't and you live next to one of them, how do you feel? So I'll do whatever you want here and you can vote for three, but it's actually a big mistake that sadly I will be found correct in the meetings in the future. We should just do it. That's what – that's what FRA said we should do. MR. I agree with the county line. MR. So have your vote. MR. There's a substitute motion and a second. All those in favor? MR. Aye. MR. Opposed? MR. Opposed. MR. That motion passes with commissioners Campy and Hetherington dissenting. Thank you. I believe we're done here. We will – MR. We have to vote on that? Same thing. MR. Well, it just – we got – we have the – we have the three isolated quiet zones, 24-hour a day. They got what they wanted. MR. We will return at 1.30 for our preset. MR. They're completely separate processes. MR. Okay. MR. Good job. MR. It's also a Hobsang Lucy ditch, but it's an irrigation ditch. It's really not meant to convey storm water, but when Elise Jay – when the berm breached, our water went into their irrigation canal, and some water backflowed into the trailside community. The breach is still present. There's enough water there that we can't properly fix it until we – until that water level goes down. Otherwise, it's just going to blow out again. So – but no water from that is impacting this community. MR. And didn't after the initial breach. But – but some water did backflow into the community. And – and between the local basin runoff and all the water coming down to them, that's what that neighborhood looked like. So that's what it's supposed to look like. That's what it looked like. There are a lot of wetlands on each one of those properties. Each one was individually permitted with ERPs through the Water Management District. So there are wetlands, but definitely not a common site to see that community like that. If you look around the perimeter, there's a bridle path on top of a berm. So they're actually – they're bermed off, and they're contained within that bermed community. And in this, obviously, it's full water as well as the – that drainage canal is out of its banks. You can see it needs time to catch up. It has since caught up. There's still water in the pastures, but the roads are passable. And so this is a similar one. This is where I showed you in the Cypress Creek Natural Area. This is a road in Ranch Colony. A breach occurred through a berm and impacted the roadway as well as – it's not just water that came out of Cypress Creek, but it's also water that was in their community and in the upstream drainage area through there. Now we're getting up to Jensen Beach. So these are the impacts in Jensen Beach, just some representative photos. So this is Town Terrace, which is just to the north of Warner Creek. And this is Jensen's Beach Boulevard at Warner Creek. And you're looking at Warner Creek. This water is actually overtopped the road and went through this area and was actually getting back into the creek on the other side of the road. So this water – we had to close this road for, you know, four to five days until it became passable once the water levels dropped in the savannas. So that water was three feet deep. And what happens is folks don't see where the road is, and that's why you see a car that's kind of off into the swale. All the water is off the road now, but this is one of those examples of you find things after the water is gone. So now we have a depression forming in Jensen Beach Boulevard where it was overtopping right next to a manhole. So we've patched it with asphalt for now. But we need to continue an investigation to see what's really going on down there to see why we have a depression forming. Now this is the community that is the most impacted when I showed you the map of the homes that were flooded in Martin County. Almost half is in this area. So a couple of things I wanted to show you is this is Savannah Road. This is the Savannas. This is Henderson Pond. I'm pointing these things out because I'm going to point them out again. Um, this is, uh, the neighborhood that's sometimes called Tick Ridge or sometimes called the hole. Um, the, uh, so what happened is Savannas came through here, flowed through all of this community on this, the west side and breached a level pool. So the water levels in the High Line neighborhood are the same water levels as what you see in, in the Savannas. Um, that was true up until, um, this weekend was the first time that the water levels in the Savannas actually actually went down to where, um, water's not continuing to flow into that community. So they were seeing gradual increases in water levels until this weekend, even though the rain occurred early in the week. Um, so this is a zoom in of the same community. Uh, just the piece on the east side as well as this is the piece on the wet side, west side. There's water in this, um, this garage here and there's water in some of these homes on this side as well. There's water in homes up here in Tick Ridge. Um, and, and, uh, you know, better part of 30 homes in this section here. So High Line Drive in the Savannas. Um, I, this, uh, on the right hand side, this is what the Savannas are. Right here, if you can see my cursor, here, this is, uh, Jensen Beach Boulevard at Warner Creek. Um, this is the Savannas. I'm kind of tracing it. It goes all through here, all through here. This is Indian River Estates and it goes all the way up here to a road called Savannah Road. So, um, so this is what we call the Savannas. Most of it is a state park. Um, now zooming in just to our neighborhood here, we have, um, this is the community that I showed you in the previous slide. This neighborhood is here. This is a, um, what we call High Line Pond. There's a 10 inch pump, a permanent pump station that's right there. Um, that pumps down to this pond down here behind the CVS on the corner of Sun View and, uh, Jensen Beach Boulevard. Um, so the, the way that that pump system works, there's a water management district permit on it. Um, when the water level reaches 11 and a half in that pond, the pump kicks on, and, and it goes down to 10 and a half. The pump kicks off under normal circumstances. When the pond down here reaches 13, um, we can't pump from that pond down there anymore because it'll flood houses. During this storm, without pumping during this storm, this pond reached 16. So it was three feet higher than the max level where we're allowed to pump from that pond. And, um, and the Savannas were overtopping into this neighborhood. So you couldn't pump anyway, because you'd be pumping the Savannas. Um, the Savannas are, have 20,000 acres of drainage area that feed into the Savannas. Um, but, uh, so, so a pump, you know, we have a 10 inch pump, which is a fairly big pump, but, um, it just would have no, it would be like using a straw, um, to drain something like that. This area up here, uh, is the Tick Ridge area. And then down here where I have this arrow is where Warner Creek is. So all of this stuff needs to come down to Warner Creek. When we pump from here down to Highland Pond or to Pitchford, it goes through the drainage system on Jensen Beach Boulevard and ends up at the same exact spot. So it, it, Warner Creek is where all of this water ends up. Um, so, um, what we're doing, so we currently have our pumping at Highline Drive. We've got the water levels down in Lake Pitchford. Now that we're not getting water overtopping, uh, from the Savannas into the community, um, we were able to, uh, get this water level down in Lake Pitchford. We've got three pumps at Lake Pitchford right now. Um, and then we've got the, the pump pumping down from Highline to Lake Pitchford. All day today, um, they're close to equilibrium. We're trying to dial it in so the pumps, uh, stay at the same rate because you're trying to have the same rate coming in as the rate going out. Um, it's coming down a hill, so the pump on the top is, is working better than the ones on the bottom, which is why we need more, uh, down that end. Um, but we have, uh, so, so we're adjusting that to try to find that sweet spots where everything's working. Um, there's a huge surface area. This whole, normally we're pumping this little pond right now. We're pumping all of this. So it's going to take a long time for the initial, uh, pump down to go as that surface area gets smaller and smaller. The pump's going to drop the water level faster, but as it stands now, it's, it is going down. Um, but, um, it's not going down super fast. Um, so what we've done is add a, an additional pump. We got permission from the water management district to pump out of the west side of savannah road over the berm into the savannahs. So, um, that typically would never be approved, but because of the impacts in Martin County, um, they, they approved us to do that. So a pump is there now doing that as well. So now we have two pumps on the top, three pumps on the bottom. Um, and we're going to continue to add resources now that we have somewhere to put the water. Um, so there's, we may have to close a section of savannah road that the next idea, if we want to accelerate it, would be closing a section of savannah road and, and pumping back into the savannahs, um, to the south of where we currently currently see the flooding. Um, so we are, have people working 24 hours a day from our stormwater division monitoring those pumps. We can't just have them going without anyone, uh, watching them because the last thing we want to do is move water from someone's house into someone else's house. So, uh, that's what our staff is doing is, and that's why folks will see our, our trucks parked next to those pumps and next to gauges. Um, they're, they're monitoring that and we're, we're actually measuring how long it takes to go a 10th up or a 10th down so we can see what's working and, and, and what we need to be doing. Um, so, uh, the next thing is what, you know, we want to talk about recovery. So I'm going to bring some other, some of our, uh, uh, partners up to talk about resources that we have in the community. But before I get to that piece, I just want to say, um, our focus now is, uh, dealing with the water we currently have. Once we get that water out, there's a larger discussion that we need to have, which is what are we going to do to mitigate this in the future. So, um, as I've talked with many of the members in the community about this, but one, one such idea might be looking at treating the savannas as a, as a, um, a watershed that needs to be managed by one party. Um, maybe it would be the water management district. That would be my preference is if they, if, if one, one group, uh, treated it very similar to the way we do Lake Okeechobee, there's a whole bunch of inputs that come into the lake and go out of the lake, but water managers are in charge of all of those inputs. That's one thing. Another thing we can do is explore another way to get the water out. So obviously Warner Creek is a bottleneck. Um, we could permit a emergency pump station down on the lower pond and maybe that goes east and, and we don't have to deal with Warner Creek and have to sit and wait for Warner Creek to recover. So those are things that are going to happen later. Those things are definitely going to happen and we'll report that back to the board. But right now, I just wanted you guys to know what we're doing today and then what resources we have available to our, um, citizens. So before I bring in our, um, partners, are there any questions from the board? Mr. Gordon is, is, uh, is, are the savannahs, do they operate like Lake Okeechobee does, which is that there are no regulations about how much water can flow into the north part of, uh, Lake Okeechobee? There are only restrictions on how much can come out of the east, south, and west sides? So the, there's really only, um, three outfalls to the savannahs and, and Warner Creek is the largest by far. Um, there's also a Hogband Slough, which goes through Port St. Lucie. And then there's a 24 inch diameter pipe, a little tiny pipe on the savannah road and on the very north end. So those are the ways water can get out. Um, how about the ways that water can go in? Are there any limits to the infalls? No, there aren't limits to the, to the in flows currently. Um, so most of it works by gravity. The vast majority works by gravity. There are a couple of pump stations that are permitted and legal and, and allowed to be used. There's three in Indian River states way up in, in Fort Pierce. And then there's one in Martin County, but it's actually owned by the city of Port St. Lucie. So there's, there's pump stations through there. Um, and I've, I've heard a lot about pump stations from the community. One thing I, I just want to make clear is this flood event, the evolved, sheer volume of rain that we received in the savannahs and in the, in the community would have caused this flooding. The pumping may have added to the depth or the, or the timing of it. But, um, but this, this flooding would have occurred regardless of if people were pumping or not, or if it be just because of 20,000 acres of drainage area is feeding into this, this area and it has to go out through Warner Creek. It's just, it's too much volume. Uh, when you have 18 inches of rain in Fort Pierce and 14 inches of rain in Port St. Lucie and 11 inches of rain in Martin County, all of those are added up and, and they're coming down to us at different rates of time. And, and there were questions also this morning about notification. Is there, is there some point that, that our, uh, professional staff understood that there was a wall of water coming and we should have evacuated? So the, the, the timing of, I think, well, I know that the severity of that rainfall caught us unprepared. It caught St. Lucie County unprepared. It caught Indian River unprepared. It, we were not expecting to get that, that volume of water. We thought we were past the worst of it based on information we were getting from the National Weather Service. So we did not expect to get that much rain. Um, it was supposed to be one inch of rain that night and we got 11. I'll wait a minute. Mr. Campy. Commissioner Hurd mentioned some of my questions. Um, look, if it's God's rain coming down, that is what it is. But if our neighbors to the north were able to ease their burden by push pumping water into the savannas, I agree with what your suggestion was, is that it just can't be whoever pumps fastest and first wins. Uh, is that a natural pitch from north to south? It's a natural pitch from north to south. So they're just pumping the water into something they know is going to run downhill towards us. And you're saying there's no official rules or regulations in regards to that? They have permits that say when they can turn them on and off. But something that might be implemented in the future is they're just looking at the water levels that are in their watershed. They're not looking at their impacts to the downstream. So that is something that they already have a permit. And I don't know that we can modify their permit, but I would hope that we'd be able to look at that and say, um, you know, do no harm, which is really what we kind of, or shared adversity I think is a better way to say it is. Um, and, and I will say Port St. Lucie, when they were asked to turn the pumps off, they did. They haven't turned them back on. Their system's three and a half feet higher than it should be. So, so they stopped, um, pumping Tuesday morning into the savannas. They, they pumped Monday and they pumped Tuesday morning. They stopped Tuesday morning. We do have, um, so, and, and we confirmed that. So not only did we, we, we knew they turned them off, we've, we checked that they turned them off. And we continue to check that they, that they're off. So we are, um, monitoring that as well. Commissioners, uh, you're answering your question though regarding, similar to Lake Okeechobee, there is no regulation schedule for the entire, um, savannas. We've had discussions about this in the past after previous flooding events, uh, with the, the state. And prior to this, the water management district did not want to get involved, um, in a, in a, uh, uh, basin, uh, regulation schedule. I think that needs to be revisited. And, um, and I think, uh, uh, uh, Jim is correct that they're the only entity that can be responsibly, uh, manage all of those. When did those pumps come on? There's another situation at, uh, Walton Road. We know there's a couple of large pipes in that road and that, um, and largely they are mostly plugged. Um, if those ever got replaced and, um, put in the back what was there, uh, we've had an ongoing concern that they would bring the flood water even faster. So normally a Walton Road goes underwater and that flood wave comes down, um, uh, eventually to, to us at, and it overtops Jensen Beach Boulevard. And that's happened in the past as well. Not frequently, obviously, but it has. And, um, and that's why all of those independent inputs and you have other subdivisions that just have normal pipes draining into them that prevated, um, um, stormwater permitting and where our request, one time we were looking at, um, the Corps of Engineers to try to do a study and we tried to engage our federal partners in doing something like that with the, uh, with the Water Management District. Obviously that's something that has to be, um, revisited and and, and, and accomplished. Thank you. May I continue? Sure. Um, one of my notes that I was take, that I took from this morning, it says, I believe we need to create a system that can divert any water coming from the north that does not rely on pumps or electricity. Because I get that they can do that and what you said and what Mr. Donaldson said when you're talking about the state and different municipalities, our kids will be old by the time we work that out. So I think we have to have a much more of a, uh, of an offensive kind of an approach assuming that what's ever happening to the north never happens. Like they won't ever participate. Because I, we all saw the pictures. They had 400 flooded homes up there. If you were a Port St. Lucie, um, public works director or something, you're pumping water into the savannahs, not knowing necessarily that you're flooding your downstream neighbors. But you're pumping water out of your own neighborhoods because they had 400 houses that flooded. So that being said, we can't hope that we can work it out with them. I think we'll have to create what you said. A system of, uh, hopefully natural and pumps. But the first line of defense would have to be a natural system so that you don't have to rely or the residents don't have to rely on a big, um, convoy of Martin County vehicles with pumps and generators heading up in the middle of a storm. Because had it, you know, it's a weird storm because it was just constant rain, but it wasn't a hurricane. You know, uh, I thought one of the most compelling comments I heard this morning is some people are still cutting lawns, like a couple of neighborhoods away from where these people were and life is normal. So that being said, to your points, and we're more on the infrastructure portion of it. And then I have my like disaster relief comments. But I think what I would say, and we've had these same discussions, we've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars doing the connectivity in Palm City farms, because if it floods in western Martin County, it eventually works its way through Palm City Farms, Canopy Creek, the Turnpike, Martin Downs, Lighthouse Point, uh, Seagate, and then eventually gets into the river. If it happens out there, it happens here. And so if it happens in Savannahs, it's happening in Jensen, and then it's going to push its way down. So the same thing that we were able to accomplish with your leadership a couple of years ago in Martin County, excuse me, in Palm City, you need to do up there. You already know how to do it. It required hundreds of thousands of dollars, and it took a while. But the neighbors were saying that several years ago, this had happened, maybe on a much smaller scale. So we don't want to have seven years from now, it happened again. When you hear people live in homes for decades, some of them went through this already. And now they're going through it again, that at least now that the five of us, with your help, can make sure three, four, five. We don't know. This could happen six months from now. It could happen in a month. Who knows what's happening anymore? And in Palm City Farms, what we created was a stormwater model so that we could determine how, you know, where the restrictions were. We've already created that model for the Savannahs. We modeled it all the way up to Fort Pierce. So we're in position to, um, we're way much farther ahead than where we were in Palm City Farms. So I think that we can be much more responsive, um, to coming up with alternative solutions. Well, I think we just have to be careful to remember the sense of urgency. So that three, four, six, eight, nine, ten months from now, we just sort of like, yeah, money's tight. We don't have the money to do it. We got to move on to something else. I think it, it needs to, you know, from this catastrophe, we need to have at least the only silver lining would be that it, we've worked on it, that it wouldn't happen like this again. Agreed. Mr. Kapps. So you spoke about Warner Creek getting overwhelmed and that that's the main way that water comes out of the Savannahs at the south end. Yes. And, uh, yesterday afternoon I was touring things and I stopped by to look at Warner Creek right by Jensen Beach Elementary School on Savannah Road. And I was rather surprised at how small the creek is. It's, it's not a very wide pathway. Who owns the creek? Like, and who's responsible for maintaining it? Yeah. So in some sections of the, um, creek it's, it's county owned. In some sections it's privately owned. In some sections it's, so it's, it's a smattering of, of, uh, a bunch of different things. The school board owns the section through the school. We have a drainage easement through there that allows us to make sure it's clear. And, uh, um, but, but there's, it's largely government owned. Um, and, and like Pinecrest Lakes is a good example. Uh, Warner Creek didn't used to be in the location it is now. It used to go through the Holly Creek community. Um, when it was relocated, when Pinecrest was developed, they gave us a right away that allows us to, to, to maintain it and to, um, um, go through that, that section. Would it, would it help to widen it or what would be involved with that? Is that even possible? Yeah. So widening it is possible. It would just require, um, uh, you know, we'd have to look at the, the, there's more than just flood control. There's also water quality. And then each one of the structures that's in the, in the, um, basin would need to be improved to do that. So that is a solution for this, for this community. Um, I don't see a Warner Creek, um, widening being the most cost effective way to salute, solve that. I think, um, directional drilling, some, some outfalls to the east and working out a way to get that water out and just take Warner Creek right out of the equation, I think is a, uh, you know, without analyzing it and getting in depth, that would be my first strike. My first guess would be that would probably be the best way to provide improved flood protection. Um, which is the same, similar to what we did in Hope Heights, although we haven't been able to make the, um, connection yet. But that's what, um, when we had the, uh, flooding in Hope Heights and Hope Sound years ago, it was a combination of expanding the available flood area and also approving a permit to discharge, um, instead of it ultimately going into um, the South Fork, it would be going into the Indian River Lagoon. And it took, unfortunately, years to get the permit from that. And we are still waiting for federal approval to get the final approval for that. So these are technically feasible, but they can be complicated because you're taking water from one basin to another and then to, um, one estuary to a different estuary. And then another question about Warner Creek getting overwhelmed and how the water from Tick Ridge and Highline is being pumped down to Lake Pitchford. And the big challenge is keeping Lake Pitchford low enough to where you can receive water from, from Highline and Tick Ridge. And, and then the water from Lake Pitchford would flow by gravity, uh, to the west to Warner Creek. That's the normal way. But we, we have another thing potentially possible, which might be pumping water to the east. That's what we're doing today. So we actually, we've got one pump here at Highline. We've got two pumps in the CVS parking lot, pulling water out because, um, because it's coming down the hill, the water's coming faster from the top now that we're pumping. So we have two pumps pumping that water down to Warner Creek. And then we have a third pump in the center of, uh, Jensen Beach Boulevard. And we're pulling water out of the Jensen Beach Boulevard system, which is still surcharged. There's a lot of water in that system because Warner Creek so high and it just wasn't draining fast enough. And we weren't getting the recovery we needed in Pitchford. So we're pumping water over the hill through downtown Jensen and going out through a baffle box, treating the water in that baffle box and getting it out through that system. So we have, uh, four pumps doing what normally is done with just one, um, because of the, the surcharged, um, levels in the drainage system present today. So the, the pump sending water east, um, that, how long has that been happening? Uh, yesterday was the first day we got that one fired up and we only, we ran it for four hours or thereabouts. We, um, the problem is you have to pump it up a hill, right? You have to pump it up a hill and we, we blew a bunch of lines. So, um, but so far today, fingers crossed, it's run all day and not had any issues. Um, but that one is really, that one is not providing, you know, pulling down the water off Highland. What that's doing is taking the water out of the Jensen Beach Boulevard system so that we can recover faster. Yeah. So, um, if, if I, that would be the first one that I would move. If I needed to move a lot of water, that's our next biggest pump to the one that's at Highline. If I needed to move a lot of water, um, that is not as critical as the two pumps that are in the CVS parking lot, as well as the pump that's up here, as well as the pump that's now in, um, Tick Ridge. The, the water going east is, uh, and having to go uphill first is, uh, does that make it to where it's a very small volume of water going east? No, it's, it's a big pump. So we're, we're pumping up about 35 feet ahead. So, you know, Jensen Beach is one that you think of Florida as flat, but Jensen Beach is not flat. So, um, where the, um, we're in front of New England seafood and, and that goes up about 35 feet, um, to the top of the hill. And, um, so yeah, that 10 inch pump would be more efficient if I was pumping it flat or downhill, but it is, it's getting water out of the system and it's allowing us to recover faster. So it's time well spent. Um, but it would be far more efficient if I wasn't pumped up, pumping up a hill, but that hill is a lot of the reason why we have water trapped here. That skyline, which is this yellow road is kind of the ridge through, uh, Jensen Beach, and that's the high point. And that's exactly where we're pumping to the discharge of our pump goes into a mantle right at skyline because everything goes downhill from the top of that ridge. So, uh, the trick is going to be keeping Lake Pitchford low enough, uh, to receive more water. And it's kind of early in the process as far as knowing how you're going to get it drained fast enough to be able to receive more water. And we're just going to have to keep monitoring that on an hour by hour basis, I guess. Yeah, we are. So we gained about eight inches, uh, from from this morning till just before I walked into this meeting, we've gained eight inches down at Pitchford. So we are, uh, increasing the water levels down there. Um, if we need to move pumps around and get additional resources, we'll do that. So what's the maximum, uh, water height in Lake Pitchford's that you can contain? So the permit reads 13, uh, is the maximum. If you get up into the, like when I showed, when I said earlier, 16 got water in one house for an idea. Um, it's 13 because that's below the lowest drain field. That's why we're permitted at that. So, um, but yeah, the permit says 13. Commissioner Vargas. It is heartbreaking. I, I can sympathize, but I can't empathize because I've not been in that position. I'm a Florida native. The closest I've come to this is my mother. Uh, when I was tiny, tiny, tiny in Hialeah, Florida, trying to put towels against a front door to prevent water rushing in. Um, I was there. Uh, I came on a Sunday because I wanted to reach the maximum amount of people that may have to go to work or may have to go to school or other activities that would take them away from their neighborhood. And I know that a lot of people are struggling. Um, I feel that it's, it's cumbersome insofar as trying to find a solution immediately quickly because there are these different entities. Um, none of us are engineers up here that I know of, except Mr. Donaldson, none of us, none of these commissioners. I have brains on tap here. We all do at the county. I cannot say enough for what Jim Gorton was able to give an information on Sunday. If it was accepted, that is great. If not, I understand the emotions. It was, it was electric in the room. Um, but having said that, um, I know that he is trying with our county staff and our leadership to come up with a viable solution when, when we do have another natural disaster, we are Florida. This will happen again. However, I've been here a very short time in this seat and I have had to speak with all of them, Mr. Donaldson and Mr. Gorton, um, and try and catch up quickly as to how this works. Water flows down, it rises, it floods. And unfortunately we have the big savannas there. It's 20,000 acres, I believe. Is that correct, Mr. Gordon? Uh, would I remember? Um, and yes, we do need to have one entity supervising and to be the one who is going to be in charge of this great marsh area that's right in the middle of our town. And of course our neighbors to the north, we've had the conversations with them. And of course you called in the state and I think they were the ones that said you need to stop immediately, uh, which was done. So we are monitoring the situation. We are not oblivious to you at all. Um, Mr. Donaldson, is there anything else we can be doing at this moment today at this hour, uh, to mitigate, uh, the water flow? I did see the piping on Jensen Beach Boulevard. I understand how the system works dropped into the manhole cover was removed and it, it just fed down east on Jensen Beach Boulevard over the ridge, over the hill, and then into another manhole to be able to go through, I think you call it a baffle box to be cleansed before it goes into the estuary. Is there anything else that we can do right now? Well, I know part of what Jim is also not spoken about is what he is doing too, is staff are continuing to, to monitor downstream for debris that keeps plugging up the system so they can unplug it and, and keep it operational. Um, the, the pitcher's pond, uh, dropping is, uh, was a challenge in getting that down. They're still looking to see if there's any other impediments there. The drainage of the area is, um, you know, Tick Ridge, the, uh, uh, Pitchfords Pond High Line, um, uh, another area that, uh, you know, is, uh, uh, is a concern is the, the cemetery. They're looking at how we do that and each, the, each one has a, has a priority. I think what we're focusing on now too is, is how we assist the, the residents in the, uh, in the cleanup. So we're, we are, we're going to get the water out there, uh, as quickly as possible. Um, we've got the state we've asked resource for and, and unfortunately we had some pump parts break that we had, we were able to get, um, back online again today. So, um, that, those are the things that we continue to monitor and, and, and do is that, um, having a, a plan B should one of these things break while we're, while we're doing this. And that's, that's a real possibility and it's, and it's happened. So, um, and also continued, um, uh, insurance that there isn't any, um, debris that clogs things up and, and stops us from what we're doing. Um, but with the state and the feds, of course, one of the things that we're really, uh, finally, we got the, the state requesting a national declaration. Uh, and one of the things that, uh, I'm, you know, asking, uh, uh, our support, uh, as part of this, uh, is to put, um, pressure on, uh, uh, uh, request to President Trump to make the declaration. Um, so if we get a declaration that frees up additional resources to both the state and the county and most particularly to talk about individual assistance, which we have some staff coming to talk about as well. Um, but in terms of, um, you know, we're not going to see more damage. How quick, you know, the goal is to get the water out as quickly as possible to, to find ways to assist the residents to clean up and what we've done on any disaster, which is, um, handle all the debris that's removed out of there, get it cleaned up, the challenges of how do we assist in repairs, and how do you assist with housing and, and, uh, um, and, you know, things that we've done in the past that I'm sure we'll do tier is, you know, homeowners that want to rebuild and want to live in a, um, uh, a trailer on site, those kinds of things. We have that flexibility and, and your ability, and I'm, I'm at, I'll be asking you for the permission to do that as well as part of our declaration to waive code enforcement issues related to, you know, essentially living on your driveway and, uh, uh, uh, in a, in a home. So anyway, it's a lot there, but in terms of the actual flood mitigation, um, getting permission to put water out of, uh, the Savannah's Basin and into the Indian River Lagoon, um, uh, we're doing that and we'll do that as long as the state will allow us. So, uh, and that, those are in your support on, um, pressure on our state representatives to assure there isn't any change in that ability. Okay. One other thing I do want to say, I did speak with the sheriff, uh, this morning and he has offered, uh, to, he has three high water vehicles to help you transport whatever you need out of your homes. Um, Mr. Donaldson, is there a point person for that, uh, in, in case folks need that? Yeah, no, we, uh, we understand that we are actually assisting in the removal and disposal. And that's, and, and they're, and, and we've had some conversations with our nonprofits. Um, there's, uh, 25 United who helped us with, um, the Hope Heights incident. Um, and, uh, you know, with your permission, we'll, we'll, we'll engage them. And they, and they, now there is a process by which, um, the homeowners, um, will do as much as they allow these folks to do, which is to enter property and help clean and, and dispose of, of the, of the facility of their homes and their, and their goods, um, under their supervision. And that's, um, obviously when you're dealing with private property, um, uh, it, it needs to be a cooperative, um, um, of engagement. And so, you know, the point person is, um, at this point, it's Sally Waite and our emergency services group and our other nonprofits, but certainly, um, you know, we will have meetings with the, in the neighborhood when we get the nonprofits ready to go to actually, we have the dumpsters and, and to provide a way to help assist and clean up that is, um, that's safe for everybody. Thank you. Commissioner Hetherington. So, Jim, you touched on the, the short-term solutions are pumping into these lakes, but you touched on, uh, directional boring and sending that east. So that would go bored and go into the lagoon, essentially. Yes. And is that state or federal permitting or both? Both? It's both. And then, um, if, okay, so state and federal permitting. I think that's going to be, even if you could get a, a, a permit that it's emergency, it's emergency flood control use all, because if there's a, a flood in the future, I think that's going to be essential. I know that's going to be a heavy lift to get that permitting, but I, I think that, that directional boring is probably going to be essential. Um, and then do you, Mr. Donaldson, you said that you need our assistance, um, pressuring for a declaration of an emergency? Yes. So I would like to, uh, collaborate with the other counties, um, and asking our federal partners to, um, and direct correspondence to the president and have our congressmen and our other congressmen in the, in the affected area to, um, you know, request the, um, president to sign off on this as a, as a formal natural disaster. I know Congressman Mast was, um, was really advocating for that. And I'll say thirdly, someone just brought it up, the 25 United. I think that would be a, um, very, uh, useful nonprofit to assist with recovery. Mr. Campy. Thank you. Thank you. I had, uh, taken some notes from this morning and I just want to run through them pretty quickly. I appreciate, and I'm sure the residents do, but it's not their number one priority to figure out how are we going to solve this problem in the future. The immediate problem, um, based on the comments that we heard, I think that the sheriff was here. He heard most of what you said, but I think the first, I put them in categories. The first thing is you need a police presence, 24 hour police presence. I think you need to limit access to the affected areas. I remember after the tornado in Port Salerno, everyone, there was traffic jams down all of the affected side streets because everyone decided it was a great opportunity to just go and drive around and look what their neighbors were suffering through. I think we have to block the roads, not just for water, you know, potential flooding problems. You should have to show an ID to be able to go through those areas. If the streets are still flooded, you don't need people driving their cars and creating a wake, uh, zone through people's houses. So the first thing I would recommend is that we get with the sheriff's office and somehow secure that area. There are people that will take advantage of people's misfortune. There are people that will sneak into these houses at night. Uh, and it's not for the neighbors to have to police their own streets. It's our police deputies that have to police the streets. So that's first. And I appreciate it. I got several. So, and I'm not trying, please understand. The reason I mention these is, you heard Mr. Donaldson say about Hobe Heights. Um, I think Commissioner Hurd and I were the, were you on the board at the Hobe Heights? Yes. Commissioner Hetherington Hurd and I were on the board for Hobe Heights off of US 1 past that Publix. It's a bowl. So it was similar to what you were up against. It was an isolated kind of circumstance. But within the isolated area, it was catastrophic, just like you, uh, the water and we lived it. I have went down, you know, it's important that a lot of elected officials and stuff just don't roam around or because if we're creating more of a nuisance than an assistance. So I went down with boots, you needed waiters. It, the water was waist high, but the good, this is no good news. The silver lining of a bad situation was that the community completely rallied those folks. And I need, I think it's very important that we do that again for you. So number one on my list is while there is still water in these homes present, and I get that nearly everything is ruined nearly. If you have silverware, China, glassware, crystal, tchotchkes, things that have been elevated up in the attic, in the closet, it's important to give you the opportunity to get there. Commissioner Vargas said about high water vehicles. There's plenty of people beyond the sheriff's office that have jacked up pickup trucks. They just need, and they're the type of folks that will come in and help you. So there are things to be salvaged from your homes. Even if it's 1%, you want the 1%. So I think it's important before the mold comes, and before that, I get it, but I mean, it's going to grow like a sweater. I understand, but I mean, I completely agree with you. Try to get whatever you can. The second thing is, and then Mr. This is the more important one, is I think a couple hundred volunteers came to help, and we can do that again. But it has to be organized. It can't just be a lot of people that have a kind heart that want to come, and they're just roaming around in the streets, and they're causing you more grief than assistance. 25 United is run by a guy named Steve Layton. He's just a regular person that just organized people. He got waste management involved. As you were taking your disgusting soaked sofas and mattresses and pulling carpet and insulation out of the walls and the sheet rock down, a team of people would help you push it into the street, and a different group of people would waste management was bringing container after container, and as it was filled up, it was immediately removed. Because the next problem is putting all of this debris and construction debris, your personal belongings out on the street that creates another problem, because now it's all on the street. So there has to be a very organized removal process of that, so you're not sitting staring at this outside. Then a group of folks that can come in. The next thing I have on the list is, oh, there's a ton of landscaping that will all have to be pulled out. The bushes are all contaminated and dead. So between household items, construction debris and landscaping, it has to be removed from your homes and your properties, put into the street so that a different group of people, sometimes using lifters and loaders, will have to load it into shipping into waste management containers or any other debris company that's willing to participate. There's other companies beyond waste management, Freedom Waste and others, that would be more than happy to help. If they need to be paid, I know that the county can waive, and this is just a suggestion, Don, the county can waive all of the dumping fees that go to the county landfill that come from affected areas. None of that, that's the things that we can control. The next thing is to create an on-site spot, whether it's a storefront or something more temporary, spot right there in the affected area. You should not have to come to Stewart or go to Willoughby or go somewhere else and leave your area if you're working or supervising volunteers that can give you cleaning supplies, tools. Some people from our groups that are right here in the front row, whether it's our staff or the United United Way can come and help you fill out paperwork, help you get a new driver's license. Someone from the clerk's office can help you start to figure out if you need to have a permit or how you're going to get a new social security card. That can be set up right there where you are. So you can walk to the corner instead of most of you don't have cars anymore. So even just getting to downtown is a problem. So that can be handled there. That was number two. Number, that was three, four. Map and affected all of the homes that are affected. There should be like, and I get that you don't want to publicize that because not everyone needs to know your business, but the inside the government we need to know exactly the houses that are affected. And then within that map you need to see, okay well it's a two-story and the upstairs is not so bad. Or someone only had 18 inches of water in their home and someone had 36 inches of water in their home. We need to know so that we can start to create a list. What they did in Hobe Heights is, okay, some contractors can come in and estimate you're going to need 50 boards of sheetrock. You're going to, so that we can start getting those things together. Someone this morning was breaking my heart about no Thanksgiving in your home, no Christmas in your home. Well, I mean, the community can lift you up now and we can help. If they wanted, you could have Christmas in your home if we plan and maneuver this effectively, which I think we can. So the material list. Number five, the warning system. We have a warning system and I heard what our staff had said. We can't look backwards and figure out, hey, where did the system fail? But what we'll definitely need to know in the future is if something like this is fast moving, tornado, hurricanes are a little slower. There's a little more time for that. The things that you'd really have to worry about is fire, flood and crime. Like if something is an active shooter or someone's in your neighborhood or there's some kind of situation, we will need to review our active warning system. I get that a lot of folks, my parents are 90 years old. They're not all over the internet. They're not on social media necessarily. Once you have issues and you're not able to look at your computer, I would say a majority of people have cell phones, even older people. We have a system in place that maybe we'll have to internally review. Where did we miss? Because if there was a, the reoccurring theme this morning is if we could have just gotten our cars out. Imagine just being able to throw your photo albums into the trunk of your car and get your car out. So there's a bigger issue than that. Almost done. The pumping issue we discussed. The last thing I wanted to say is, yes, the county and the state and the federal government will be helpful, but the people that will really be boots on the ground and we're very fortunate, is the Treasure Coast Building Association, the county, the school district. I know that South Fork High School has probably hundreds of kids that are studying construction. We can organize to have those kids come over and assist churches, the not-for-profits, especially led by the United Way, House of Hope, Project Lift, the Boys and Girls Club, Elevate Hope, Habitat for Humanity, 25 United, Waste Management, Home Depot, Lowe's, Cleveland Clinic, because there was another question about going into these homes that are now contaminated. And the water has got fecal matter, gas, chemicals, and oil in it. It's not just flood, it's chemicals. And then the mold will come more than it has. And those sheetrock and those products need to be out of the house as fast as possible so that you can try to tamp down the contamination of your homes more so. So it's a catastrophe. The only thing that the five of us and our staff and your community can do is show you how quickly the rest of us can come in and assist. And that's the kind of help you need. We'll figure out how to pump the water differently next time, you know, after this. But in the meantime, we need to help. And I think that we have all of the resources and the spirit of the community that will help. Forty-four houses. You should have Christmas in your home. MS. Mr. Gordon, anything to add? MR. That's a good segue into the folks that we have here to talk about recovery. So if I could have Sally Waite, our Emergency Management Director, come up. MS. Good afternoon, Commissioners. Sally Waite, Emergency Management Director, for the record. As Jim stated, we are under a local state of emergency and a state declaration. And from what I understand, the governor has submitted and expedited federal declaration to the president of the United States. So we're hoping to hear from that soon. Currently, the Emergency Operations Center is activated to a level two partial activation, which means we're not using every county staff to run this event. We are using the ones that really mean something to the event, such as public works and emergency management, county communications, agencies like that. So we are working consistently on the incident. We have been working with the United Way and with human services on the damaged homeless. We do have a list of every homeowner that has had or been infected by this event. And we have been contacting them. And you'll hear more about that from the United Way. On Thursday and Friday, or actually last Tuesday, or actually last Wednesday, I'm sorry, we did request an individual assistance team from the state of Florida. They did send us down two people. We took them in our high water rescue trucks, and they were able to do damage assessments in the Holly Creek area and also on High Line. That information did go back, and that also helps with the federal declaration. The more damages they see, the more that really assists in that declaration. So they are coming back either by Friday or by Monday. We haven't had the exact date yet. They're coming down with joint preliminary damage assessment teams. So that means there's someone from the state and there's three teams. So they're state agencies. And for what I understand in other counties, they do have FEMA representation with these teams. So that's a good sign for us. So that will be happening this week and the beginning of next week. We will be taking that list of 77 homes. I want to say there's 77 homes that have been affected in some way. And we will be visiting each one of the each and every one of those homes and doing this assessment. Right now, we do have a comfort station at 3900 Northeast Skyline Drive in Jensen. It's at the Jensen Beach Community Church. We did place three 30-foot trailers there, one with restrooms, one with showers, and one with laundry facilities. And that is operational until we take it down because it's no longer in use. We do have a multi-agency resource center right now at the Hoke Library in Jensen Beach. That's 1150 Northwest Jack Williams Way at the Hoke Library. It just opened at one o'clock today. It's open until seven tonight. And then it's open every day from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. except for Sunday. So it is open tomorrow as well, even for the holiday. We do have state representation there. And we do have a lot, many nonprofit organizations there that each have a table and they're giving out information and they're doing assessments and they're finding ways to help everybody that comes through that center. So I am urging people to go to that center. If we do get a federal declaration, then FEMA would also be at that center too. So we don't know how long that's going to be open until it's no longer in use. And we've helped as many people as we can. Our fire rescue department has assisted in 35 high water assist in the Holly Creek and Highline Drive areas. And we have still been taking some of the residents to dry land to be able for them to get to appointments and to pick up their prescriptions and things like that. We have, I already talked about the joint preliminary damage assessment team. We're excited for that. The state is moving pretty quickly on all of our resource requests. We have just requested pallets and pallets of muck out kits, personal protective equipment. I know that's been a big problem. There's gloves, there's body suits, there are masks and things like that to help the residents clean out their homes. So anything that we get through a request, we're requesting either from our local contracts or from the state of Florida contracts. Questions for Sally. Commissioner Capps. So when you get a federal declaration, when you do, if you do, and when you do, what kind of assistance does that trigger? Commissioner Capps. That triggers housing assistance. And I have these packets in the back in the front table out there that will trigger housing assistance. Right now, currently on the FEMA website, it looks like each home is eligible for $44,800 of FEMA assistance, plus other assistance for other needs. And other needs talk about serious needs, displacement, personal property, medical, dental, funeral, child care. I mean, there's a list of information that I provided in the front. But the biggest thing is the housing assistance. So hopefully, if we get the federal declaration, we can try to solve some long term housing. I hate to see FEMA trailers, because it's really not what they're called anymore. But some temporary housing on their properties, like Don, Mr. Donaldson was talking about, would be very, you know, helpful, you know, for the residents to stay in their neighborhoods, their kids can still go to school and, you know, have that have that in their home. So say President Trump gave us the federal declaration today. Do you have any thoughts about how long it takes to get federal assistance? I think that we'll see that that happen pretty quick. What has to happen is FEMA has to come down and sit down at the Hoke Library and take everybody's information and see what they're eligible for, see what they've lost. I have seen and during the tornadoes, there was some temporary money issued out. But the long term, bigger numbers take some time with assessments of the, of the situation they're living in. Thank you. Any, anyone else? Yeah. No, I'm sorry, Michelle Miller. Good afternoon. Good afternoon, Commissioners. Michelle Miller, Human Services Director for the record. Would you pull your mic up? Sorry, yeah. I better? Yeah. Okay. So I'm here today to talk about some of the assistance that our office helps with. Every year we get housing funds from the state through a fund called the Sadowski Fund. And it's a program called the SHIP Program, which stands for State Housing Initiative Program. And when there is a declared emergency, even just from the state as in our case currently, it turns on our disaster strategy. And through that disaster strategy, we are able to help people with certain needs if they are income eligible. So I have created a flyer here that talks about what the income eligibility is. I'll have some in the back. And we also will be at the Resource Center with Sally's team throughout the duration that is open to sit with people to work that out. And if they are income eligible, to go over the application with them and try to do that right on site. But just briefly want to mention what it will cover. One of the main benefits that we think will help in this case is hotel stays. So I know Carol will talk a little bit about what they're offering now. And when the United Way is providing hotel assistance, when that ends, then these funds can take over for that. And it can provide assistance not only for hotel stays, but say you are a renter and you want to now go into a new unit. It can provide you move-in assistance, first month security, up to a grant amount of $20,000. So this money doesn't need to be paid back. The primary driver is just income eligibility. So also it can pay for homeowners who have an insurance deductible. It can pay for the deductibles. It can pay for debris removal. It can pay for the purchase of emergency supplies for households that need to weatherproof their home. So it can cover a lot of things. And then in the future, as we start with the assessments of the home, this program can also outside of the disaster strategy. So when I come before you each year and talk about how many homes that we've helped in the community, one of the strategies that we have is tear down rebuild. So for the homes that need to be teared down and rebuild, again, if you're income eligible, there will be some monies that are available to that. Also, this program provides for additional funds to the affected communities from the state keeps like a little pot of money for disasters. And then when they occur, they will provide us with additional funds. We don't yet know what that will be. We had to create a survey today, which we submitted, which said how many affected homes we think there are, and what we anticipate those costs to be. Obviously, we don't know exactly, but we can just estimate what those would be. Then I also wanted to mention, because somebody this morning mentioned veterans, and if you are a veteran in this community, outside of this program, we work with the Veterans Council of Martin County, and they have assured me that they will work with any veteran who needs assistance, whether that's home, I'm sorry, hotel stays, or any kind of assistance with repairs, that type of thing. For that, we would just need them to call our office, and then we can make an appointment for them to come in, or we can go to them. We can find a way to help. We don't necessarily, like you said, Commissioner Campy, we don't want people to think they have to come into our office. If they can't make it, we will come to you. We will do whatever we can to help remove any barriers. And then finally, if it isn't something that our office specifically can help with, whether it's housing assistance or any other types of grants, we are a resource for information. So I would just encourage people to call us, to look on the webpage to get our information. We can refer you. If we can't help you, we can set you up with somebody who can. There's a lot of resources in this community, and we are the point person to be able to connect people, to those resources. Can I share your phone number? Yes. So 772-288-5456 will get you directly to the housing coordinator. My personal line is 772-288-5735, and I can connect you to anybody on our team, or outside of our team, that can help people in the community. We're here to help. We will be at the resource center. Again, anything that people need, even if they don't think we can provide it, we can try to hook them up with someone that can. Commissioner Capps. So we've talked a lot about what the federal government can do, and what the state can do, and what charitable organizations can do, and some of what we can do. But I believe I've seen some things on social media about how various local governments are going beyond to help with financial assistance. Have you ever heard of things that might be offered by the local governments, monetary-wise? Regarding rental assistance and the like? I think I saw something recently about one of the cities or the counties offering a substantial amount of money to flood victims. Yes, I think I heard about that today. That's Port St. Lucie. They have a disaster fund that we don't necessarily have, but it's through those individual funds that they're able to provide that assistance. They already have something set up for that? They do not. They do. We do not. Right. I wonder if we could consider finding some money out of some source to help. I mean, could we create one? Could we find some money somewhere? So, Commissioners, I think, you know, the county has reserve funds that you can use to dispense. You know, we'll, obviously, we're, you know, looking into assisting in the cleanup. If you're going to provide grants to homeowners, I would need specifics on the scope and of the work that you're looking for. Is it just a handing of money for anything or does it have spur criteria to it and as a grant? And I would also need to review that with our clerk to make sure that if we're going to give money for private citizens, you know, under the law, how to, you know, do that. There are certain programs that the state provides, as was stated, and they have mechanisms to provide individuals with, whether it's rental assistance or others, and a lot of those have criteria by which you do them. Again, if you have an unrestricted criteria, just simply for flood victims, obviously, I just need to know the rules of the way you want to do it. We'll work with the legal department to determine, you know, the funding that would be eligible. We could only use, basically, ad valorem funds. You can't use utility funds, things like that. There are, we have a number of restricted funds we've talked about. So, and then I would just want to work with our clerk of court to make sure that, that how we spend the money is in accordance with state law. I have a thought. You know, we're, our next meeting is just in one week, right? Correct. So, I wonder if we could have an agenda item and maybe have staff study this in the next week and we could have an agenda item about what other local governments are doing and what kind of parameters they're putting on it, and maybe consider something like that in Martin County as well. Yes. Use the example of what they're doing in Port St. Lucie. So, yes, and then what we did in Hope Heights is we used our funds to match the dollars with the feds to assist in the, in those funds that went to, in that case, purchase some of the homes and do some other things through a federal program. And so, the county was able to provide some match money towards some, the overall strategic goal. But we will look at what Port St. Lucie is doing and, and bring you back examples of what we've done here in the past. Great. Okay. Now, Ms. Howard Dietz is going to come up from the United Way and talk about what our nonprofits are doing. Good afternoon. Good afternoon, everybody. Carol Howard Dietz for the record. So, United Way has been fielding a lot of phone calls from residents in the Jensen Beach area. And basically, our message is, is we want to help. And anything that we can do to help, we will. We can provide hotel stays. We are looking into long-term temporary housing. And that's a, that's an oxymoron right in itself. But, so I have called the container company to see if there are some containers out there that we can get into Martin County for temporary housing in some of the, for some of the residents. We're working with our nonprofits Molly's House, Family Promise, and asking if they have rooms available for long-term temporary housing. I've actually had calls into Indiantown to see if maybe any of the housing units there haven't been sold yet. Again, just trying to look at anything that we can do for our community to assist. I know that people need food. If they need things, we can replace that once they're ready. But until they're at that point, we can't help. But we are here. I have a staff member, Cher, that's at the mark. And she's also taking information on each resident that comes to see her, how we can help them for long-term recovery. And we'll kind of go from there. But we are working with all the nonprofits to ensure that our family members, regardless of income level, can get assistance during this time. We have some members of the public who would like to address us. The first one is Alicia Dixon, followed by Jeremy French. Good afternoon board members. My name is Alicia Dixon. I used to be a resident of Martin County, born and raised here. I currently live in St. Lucie County. I'm here to support my family, my community, Jensen Beach. I'm not going to bring up the flood. I'm going to bring up what if. What if this situation arise again? What are we going to do? We need to have a strategic plan of action in place. An emergency fund that will support what we're in need of. Housing assistance, food, clothing, places to help these families rebuild. We, as taxpayers, play a vital part of what's going on in our community. And the funds that we have, we don't tell you how to spend, but you should also look at how to spend it. Help them. Put some money aside for an emergency, such as this. Have a strategic plan of action, because when the contractors come to you for infrastructure to build, they have a plan of action. They want to build on infrastructure, such as the savannahs, that has crippled this community. The savannahs now is flowing over into communities that were well-built way before I was even born. Tick Ridge, Mars Hill, the bottom, the hole, Highland, Skyline Drive. These communities were established before any of you guys took office, and now they're being destroyed because you're not doing what you can do. I know there's governmental red tapes and stuff like that, but you can cut some of these tapes by coming together as a community for your community. For the Commissioner, Mrs. Vargas, you want to build a community cafe. I read the report, allocation of what, $5.2 million or $2.5 million? How about we take that cafe money and put it back in Jensen Beach? Take that money and help these people rebuild their homes, because guess what? You can build a cafe, but if these people don't have a home or money, they can't go to that cafe to support it. It's a waste of money. We can build a cafe later. We can put a park in later, but you can't. These people need their homes now. So let's reallocate money for certain projects to help these people get back in their homes. Jeremy French is next, followed by Josh Kincaid. I can't hear you. Sorry. Yes. Sure. I'm Lisa French. Pull the mic down a little bit, Lisa. I'm Lisa French. I'm the one that we have the boys and the no Christmas thing. With our house, I know we talked about the flooding and it was the rain coming down, but you've been out to my house a few times. You know where I am. I have four to six inches in my house. I was the one that's been kind of communicating with the neighborhood, but I flooded Wednesday and I know we were talking about that we can just dump in the savannas, but Martin, you can't dump unless you're at, is it 13, if I remember? 13, but St. Lucie, do they have any numbers? No. Does St. Lucie communicate with us when they're pumping right when they start? They're not required to. They're not required to, and they didn't. So I flooded Wednesday. They pumped all day Monday, all day Tuesday. Again, we have no flood insurance. We don't have funds to fix our house. We don't have anything. So there really should be some type of investigation because it doesn't take, you know, there's Highline here and across is mine. And I'm not saying this is, you know, maybe for everyone, but there's some of us that even just have our septic fields. So we can't just say, okay, well, all of you should have flooded because some of us are on two, two streets down and we shouldn't have flooded. We should communicate. Somebody should take over. What were we saying? Who should, um, South Florida water management, maybe they should take over, right? Because we got flooded out and we shouldn't have, and this shouldn't be, I mean, really, it shouldn't even be our insurance. Somebody needs to figure out what happened, but that pumping flooded me out and my family, and we won't have a home for, I don't know, eight months, maybe. So I, I mean, I, I think that's it. We just need some other help other than here's some volunteers, here's some hotels, here's some FEMA, which FEMA is only going to, like I said, 30 to 50,000 of not even the house. Like, what does that get me? So I, we need more, we need more answers and that's not, this isn't it. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you. Josh Kincaid is next and Cecilia Smith. Good afternoon, commissioners. My name is Josh Kincaid. I live at 4235 Northeast High Line Drive. First, I want to thank the county staff, commissioners, and local organizations who have stepped up to help our community. We appreciate the support. Two of my biggest concerns first would be the pumping of water from St. Lucie County into the savannas. I know Jim mentioned that they do have permits to be able to do so. However, it's still unclear to me whether they have certain guidelines that have to be followed as to how much they can pump and when they can pump. And if that contributed to the flooding days after the rain had finally let up, I feel as though we are able to pursue an investigation into that. Secondly is, now that I understand the layout of the pumping system from the slides, at the rate at which we are currently pumping, what is the expected timeline as to when we can see significant water levels go down and be able to get back onto our properties and start the process of sorting through things and beginning that recovery. I'm currently out of work due to this. I fix appliances for a living. My work truck is half submerged in water with all of my tools that I use to make my living. So that's pretty much it. I mean, I understand that recovery takes time, um, but we do need some more answers and urgent solutions. Thank you. Thank you. Ms. Smith is the last to request to speak form I have. Good afternoon, board members. Afternoon. I was born and raised in Jensen Beach, Florida. What they call the hole used to be, but that now we're going to reframe that. It's called the Jacob Estates because it's family property. Beautiful property. My mom is 85 years old. I'm representing her Mary Mac. The home that she lives in, I grew up in that house. My grandchildren were there in that house and great-grandchildren. That house has went through hurricanes. That house has went through storms. Do we get rain because it's low down there? But first of all, let me back up. I used to fish in the savannahs as a little girl. How do we get rain when, do we get water when it rains? Of course, it's low line. But what I saw on Monday morning, Sunday, I'll back up. I went up to my mom's house to take her goods and stuff for the week. There was water at the bottom of her driveway. That was it. I got a phone call at six o'clock in the morning. My cousin said, I wrote down on the property. You need to come get your mom out. Monday morning, on one side of her house, there was ankle-deep water. She said the water is coming from the back of the house. So as the investigation was done, we could see the water flowing from the back part of where the savannahs is. So as it flowed down through her property, moving on over on over to Highland, when I went back up on Monday afternoon, me and my daughter to put up some sandbags and everything would put them inside the house so that hopefully none would come through the doors, it was not almost to our knees on the porch. 85 years old. I've never seen anything like that type of rain. It was rain. That wasn't rain. Yes, it rained, but that wasn't rain. We know exactly where it comes from. So that part, I'm kind of hurt about that. It was a deja vu to me because I just lost my home in November 9th, 2024 to the tornado that hit Coley Street down in Portsmouth, Florida. And I'm still trying to rebuild. Thank you, Commissioner Campy. You are for everybody in this community. You show up to the CRA meetings. How I know? Because I go. I'm not wanting to just come and talk. I attend the meetings. Thank you very much for what you said earlier. So now it's deja vu. My mom has just a little bit of an impairment, so she's with me. Thank God she had somewhere to go. I am in a rental that I've been paying for. After one year, my insurance company started paying for it, plus I'm paying a mortgage. So she's confused. I don't know if they say how long this will take. But and what we go through, she has no insurance. So that's where I'm at. But that was not caused from rain. That was caused from the savannahs. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Dixon thought she was leaving, but she wanted me to share that if you, the containers, that she have two lots that you can put on her property. Excellent. Thank you. Would anyone else like to address us? Anyone else have any questions, comments? I think Commissioner Capp's idea of having an agenda item in our next meeting, which is a week from today. We don't normally meet two weeks in a row, but this time we are. And then I think that Operation 25 United, we've already, our staff has reached out to them. They're just, it's just a group of citizens, but they're very good at getting volunteers organized so that everyone's sort of traveling in the same direction instead of just having a ton of people just roaming around out there. And I think we can contact our sheriff's deputies are here. The first thing you have to do is protect your neighborhood. Thank you. We will now take up. So, Commissioners, as you're digging up for the next item, I will take the direction that I will work with 25 United, that you will draft a letter for the Chair to request a declaration from our President and our Congressman to support that and to prepare an agenda item for next week for an update and review of a potential grant program. And if you all nod your heads on that, we're in agreement. Thank you. Thank you. We're going to take up agenda item number PH-1. That's a public hearing to consider adoption of an ordinance amending Division 5, Hope Sound, Article 12 Community Redevelopment Code regarding maximum height for light fixtures for certain recreational facilities. Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm John Sennett, Principal Planner with Growth Management. This is a request by Architects Design Collaborative on behalf of Boys and Girls Club of Martin County for approval of an amendment to Division 5, Hope Sound, Article 12 Community Redevelopment Code, Land Development Regulations, Martin County Code, to allow a maximum height of 60 feet for light fixtures for recreational facilities that are owned and operated as part of an institutional use. The applicant's proposed amendment would only be applicable to the Hope Sound Community Redevelopment Area. Article 12 establishes redevelopment zoning districts, permitted uses, and development standards for Martin County's six community redevelopment areas. Section 3.14 B4 LDR contains a height exception for lighting structures for public park facilities. There is no similar exception for lighting structures for recreational facilities developed as part of an institutional use, such as a community center operated by a not-for-profit entity. Currently, the height for lighting at such facilities in the CRA would be limited by the maximum building height within the sub-district. The applicant is proposing this LDR amendment to Section 12.5.04 Development Standards, Division 5, Hope Sound. So again, this LDR amendment would be specific to the Hope Sound CRA. The applicant is proposing the addition of Section 12.5.04.7, which reads, light fixtures for recreational facilities that are owned and operated as part of an institutional use, as defined in Section 12.1.03, shall not exceed a maximum height of 60 feet, provided that all lighting complies with all other requirements of the Land Development Regulations and is designed and located to minimize stray light impacts on adjacent properties and surrounding areas. Light fixtures described in this section must cease operation by 10 p.m. Lighting structure height is an important part of achieving the illumination, uniformity, visibility, and glare control required for a safe and effective playing field. Appropriate illumination is necessary for players to track the ball, recognize other players, judge distances, and identify field boundaries as well as potential hazards. Lower light fixture heights are more likely to result in significant variations in illumination across the field. Lower fixtures can introduce more glare into both players and viewers' lines of sight. 60-foot fixtures more effectively meet or exceed the minimum foot candle target while requiring fewer poles and providing more uniform illumination. The proposed 60-foot height would allow the fixtures to be mounted at an acute angle to reduce light spillage. Photometric plans for 60-foot lighting fixtures would be reviewed by staff prior to construction to ensure all LDR requirements are met. This application was presented at the October 14th Hobe Sound Neighborhood Advisory Committee meeting. The Hobe Sound NAC recommended approval of the application subject to the inclusion of a limit on the hours of operation of the light fixtures. So as after that October 14th meeting, the applicant decided to include the 10 p.m. cutoff time in the proposed language. This application was presented at the October 26th Community Redevelopment Agency meeting. The CRA voted unanimously 6-0 recommending approval. This matter was heard before the LPA this past Thursday, November 5th. The LPA also unanimously recommended approval. Staff recommendation is to move that the Board adopt the proposed ordinance amending Article 12, Community Redevelopment Code, land development regulations, Martin County Code. That concludes my presentation. Mr. Capps. So is there precedent in other parts of the county for polls of this height? So based on my conversations with our parks and rec staff, if we're looking at, you know, county-owned parks, county-wide, 60 feet is actually on the lower end of the spectrum. You know, some fixtures, including those in Doc Myers Park in Hobestown are pushing 80 feet. So 60 feet is within a reasonable range of what's in other facilities elsewhere. So the current code is what, 30 feet? The current code would limit it to the building height within the sub-district. So for example, the general sub-district in the Hobestown CRA, yes, would limit it to 30 feet. And if we go with taller poles, we need less poles? Yes, yes. Fewer poles and the higher the poles allows the fixtures to be mounted at an acute angle so that there's actually less spillage and more uniform illumination across the field. So you're less likely to have the light beaming out beyond the borders of the property with these taller poles? Correct. Okay. I'll move approval. Second. Do you want to say anything else? Sure. Okay. I think I appreciate your presentation, but it got lost somewhere in the technicalities that it's the Boys and Girls Club of Martin County that has raised privately millions and millions of dollars to build a state-of-the-art gorgeous facility for the folks in Hobestown, similar to what they did in Stewart. And it's basically athletic sports lighting for an athletic field. At 30 feet, it cannot be accomplished. At 60 feet, it can. Privately funded, privately paid for. The kids that go to the Hobestown Club will get to go for free. And it'll be a jewel and a welcome addition to our parks and rec system that's being paid with generous donations. So I'm thrilled that the district commissioner was able to support to make the motion. And I'm very happy to second it. Any further discussion? There's a motion and a second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? That motion passes unanimously. Thank you. We'll now take up public hearing quasi-judicial number one, which is a public hearing to request approval of the major final site plan for Martin County Fair. This is quasi-judicial. Any ex parte disclosures? Commissioner Vargas. If I have any, that report has been filed. Commissioner Capps. If I have any, they have been filed. If I have any, they've been filed. Commissioner Campy. I haven't had any in a long time, but that's been filed. And Commissioner Hetherington. If I have any, they've been filed. And this is quasi-judicial. Mr. Sennett, have you had an opportunity to pass all your relevant materials to the clerk? Yes, I'm turning on a copy of the agenda item and my work history to be filed as Exhibit 1. Anyone who's going to be providing sworn testimony, please stand up, raise your right hand, and be sworn in. Do you swear or affirm the evidence you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? I do. Please proceed, Mr. Sennett. Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, Commissioners. I would also like to add that there are no interveners for this application. I'm John Sennett, Principal Planner with Growth Management. This is a request by Kim Lee Horn and Associates on behalf of Martin County Fair Association for major final site plan approval to develop fairgrounds consisting of outdoor attraction areas, an approximately 20,000-square-foot arena, two 12,472-square-foot welcome buildings, four 4,000-square-foot barns, and associated infrastructure on approximately 30.72-acre site. The subject site is a vacant area adjacent to Indiantown High School located at 19100 Southwest Citrus Boulevard, approximately 0.65 miles northeast of the intersection of Southwest Minute Maid Road and Southwest Citrus Boulevard in Indiantown, included as a request for a certificate of public facilities reservation. As you can see, this site is outlined here in red. It's a vacant area adjacent to the northwest of the existing Indiantown High School. Access to the site will be provided via an existing driveway connection at Southwest Citrus Boulevard. The site is within the PR, Public Recreation Zoning District. The adjacent areas to the north and west are within the A2 Agricultural District. The future land use designation of the site is Institutional Recreational. The future land use designation of the adjacent areas to the west and north is Agricultural. The Barton County Fair will consist of outdoor attraction areas and approximately 20,000-square-foot arena, two 12,472-square-foot welcome buildings, four 4,000-square-foot barns, associated infrastructure, including water and wastewater services from Village of Indiantown Utilities, and access will be provided via that existing connection at Citrus Boulevard. Here's the proposed final site plan. The site plan provides for parking in accordance with the lease agreement. They're providing a total of 1,587 parking spaces. And here's a closer look at the proposed buildings and the attraction area. The welcome buildings are located in the southern portion of the attraction area, with the barns and arenas located on the eastern side of the attraction area. And there is a landscape buffer around the whole site. This application was heard before the local planning agency on November 5th. The LPA voted unanimously 4-0, recommending approval of the application. Development review staff have found the Martin County Fair Association application to comply with all applicable regulations and the comprehensive growth management plan, as detailed in the staff report. Staff recommendation is to move that the board receive and file the agenda item and its attachments, including the staff report as Exhibit 1, and move that the board adopt the resolution, approving the final site plan for the Martin County Fair project. That concludes my presentation. Questions for Mr. Sennett? I'm on page 146, and it says, due to the functional requirements of the Martin County Fairgrounds, approximately 33 trees cannot be reasonably accommodated within areas. So this is a 30-acre site, and you can't accommodate enough trees to meet our minimum standards? I believe that was related to the vehicular use area landscaping, and I'll let the applicant address how they've compensated for that elsewhere on the site. Okay. Would the applicant like to make a presentation? Good afternoon. Can we hear me? Thank you. Good afternoon, Commissioner Hurd, Commissioner, Chair, Chair Hurd, Vice Chair Campy, and Commissioners. This is a momentous day for us at the Martin County Fair Association. For the record, my name is Susan Gibbs-Thomas. I am a resident of Martin County, living in Indiantown. I sit on the board of the Martin County Fair Association and currently serve as its president. The Martin County Fair Association is a 5013C non-profit association organization. We entered into a lease with Martin County for that 30.7 acres on Citrus Boulevard. We have been entrusted to be stewards of county assets. It is our responsibility and obligation to build out a facility to serve this county and its residents in good times and in bad, always cooperating and collaborating with the county to ensure the best outcome for our residents and community. We look forward to this opportunity and challenge in creating, building out, finding the full funding for this facility. It will take the support and effort of the community to make it happen. At our groundbreaking in September on Citrus Boulevard, we had the start of our community stepping up to contribute and support financially to the new fairgrounds with a capital campaign. We look forward to the future with optimism and grateful for the continued support of our residents, our businesses, and of this commission. And just before I pass the mic, Commissioner Hetherington, on your last meeting, we would like to thank you for your steadfast support and participation at the fair through these many years, and we look forward to your next chapter and to continue to work with you as we move forward. Okay, I will turn it over to Erica Beitler with Kimley Horn for our presentation. Thank you. Good afternoon, Commissioners. Thank you for your time today, and thank you, staff. Well, the time has come to hear this presentation, and for the record, my name is Erica Beitler with Kimley Horn & Associates, and we have provided the public notice affidavit at the LPA last Thursday, and we are requesting approval for a major final site plan application and the relocation of the fairgrounds, so that's exciting. The project is supported by a multidisciplinary team here who has worked closely with staff. Thank you again, and on the proposal for the relocation with the site plan, building program, and supporting infrastructure. As Ms. Susan said, the fairgrounds is a nonprofit organization that serves our community since 1935, and it's really an advocate on education, agriculture, and celebrating youth achievement. And we host the annual 10-day fair and provide community events throughout the year. As mentioned, this site is located on the outskirts of Indiantown, off Citrus Boulevard, and shared access with Indiantown High School. It is surrounded by agriculture lands, but is zoned for future land use of recreational and public recreation district zoning. Bless you. Bless you. So, this property is in a lease agreement for a public purpose lease between Martin County and the Martin County Fair Association, with the lease parcel shown on your right of 30.72 acres, and it is intended for the Martin County Fair and other qualifying exposition uses. This was effective December 2, 2025, and it's a 10-year term term terminating December 1, 2035, but it is allowed to have three additional 10-year periods. Renewal is not required, but automatic, and it's up to county approval. And this is an extractive from the lease agreement, Exhibit B, that is site plan parameters. And so, you can see here, we need to at least have 1,500 general parking spaces provided and 60 paved handicapped spaces. Public restroom facilities need to meet 20 restroom stalls, which incorporate six stalls and eight urinals for men and 14 stalls for women. The fair office, agriculture, and education space needs to be CVS, hurricane-related structure, no fewer than 75,000 square feet. But we want to note that this can be an opportunity for an evacuation center for community members and their animals, given, you know, unexpected emergencies such as flood and hurricane and such. The utility connections and stormwater infrastructure are required by applicable government facilities. And so, after, hopefully, site plan approval, this all has to be installed within three years of that. So, with the lease agreement in mind, the proposed site plan was designed to limit overall impact to the site. So, you can see the use of grass parking, stabilized access roads, and perimeter native landscape buffers. The site plan incorporates setbacks appropriate to the surrounding property. We have paved access off of Citrus Boulevard that's shared with the Indiantown High School. And 10 acres of grass parking area, which, in total, we have 1,587 spaces, which includes 65 handicapped, which is 5 over the required per lease agreement, and, in total, 22 over the required spaces. This layout does allow for good vehicular circulation and wayfinding, emergency access, and service operations, which you can see the three circles here show where you can access into the fair area for livestock and barn use, as well as, I don't want to say carnies, but... You just did. I know. I feel like we needed to lighten up for the day. Just say that out loud. I'm sorry. Yes. Fair professionals. Thank you. Ride. The people who make the fair happen. That's right. Oh, dear. So, the welcome building is, well, you can see I highlighted here, is a proposed caboose display. It would be on tracks. It's a nice way finding welcome to the fair. But the two welcome buildings are approximately 24,944 square feet mirroring each other in footprint. But within that is 10,000 square foot exhibit hall, 1,650 square feet administration area, and about 1,600 square feet of bathrooms, which the bathrooms do meet the required established in the lease agreement. And obviously, with events, we would bring in additional bathrooms. So, oh, I'm sorry. The 20,000 square foot arena to the east of the site, and we're looking at the dark brown area. So, we have two 10,000 square foot arenas and four barns totaling in 16,000 around the arena area. And to the west is the entertainment area, about 1.9 acres, which is pervious but covered temporarily by tents for events. And there is an event management traffic plan that is required with each event. I just wanted to note that. And as mentioned, water and wastewater services will be provided by the Village of Indiantown Utilities, and a capacity letter has been provided by the Village. Ms., before you – can you go back to the map? Yes, sir. Railroad Club, is there a spot for them? The Railroad Club? Yes. So, you can't really see on this graphic, but building two – you said the one – The Welcome Center is to the right. The train up is to the – Caboose, yes. There will be a museum in – I heard the caboose, but I didn't hear about the clubs, so I'm happy. Sorry. Because I know they've been as anxious to go there as you guys. And we're excited to have them. So, here is an elevation of the Welcome Building, which establishes a primary public entrance and identity for the fairgrounds. Its location is a clear wayfinding and connects you to the arenas and outdoor entertainments as you enter. And it includes the exhibit hall, the train modeling center, and administrative areas and restrooms. And it provides a permanent, accessible facility capable of supporting both annual fair and year-round programming. And as mentioned previously, can be used as an evacuation center for communities and their animals as needed. So, here's a conceptual rendering of a lively new location for the fair, which we have plenty of space. And we're very excited in closing. The proposed fairgrounds will provide a new home for the Martin County Fair and support continued agriculture, educational, and community activities. And based on this project's proposed site improvements, consistency with the development standards, we respectfully request your approval for the major final site plan application. Before I finish, though, I forgot to say I didn't address your landscape question. Well, there are, there was a request for that because the vehicular use, as you could see, I'm sorry, is the grass parking area. And we didn't want to interfere with the circulation of traffic because you know how it could get quite hectic. So, we didn't want to put trees in the grass parking. So, given that this is a lease agreement, I did the landscape plan. So, I planted as many trees as we could. On the west, we have an existing canal, an agriculture canal that we have to maintain, as well as hugs on the north property. And in that, I just wanted to try to make as many trees possible with the fair area as well. You don't know the logistics and you want to keep that as a flex space as possible because you don't know how operations will go. So, that's why no planting is proposed in that area. And where is it compensated? It's compensated all in the buffers on the north, the west, the south, and the east, and then alongside the livestock area and on the south of the detention area. Madam Chair, if I may, and if I recall correctly, I thought your DBH was also being upsized from the minimum. Yes, sir. That is correct. So, they're providing thicker trees to start with versus the minimum code required diameter or breast height? And one, the area, I don't know what the directions are on this site plan, but one of them is we're providing additional buffering on a canal? Well, a perimeter buffer is required. So, there is just, it's just not as many trees that are required in that data. So, I added more than what was needed. Because based on county standards, the east buffer only, it only needed 29 trees, 40 trees, 12 trees along the whole perimeter. And I'm exceeding that substantially to make up for the loss of vehicular use requirements, given that it is a pervious grass area as well. So, it's not your typical paved parking. Thank you. And our team is here for any questions you may have. Any questions? Commissioner Hetherington. I don't have any questions, but I just wanted to say this has been a long time coming. And the Byron County Fair, I'm excited for your new future and your new home. And I'm glad that we've finally gotten there. I will gladly motion for approval of this item, and I look forward to seeing it come to fruition. Second. Commissioner Vargas. Okay, I have some questions for you. Look, I'm all for the fair, being successful, but I do need to be concerned about Martin County tax dollars and assets. We've donated 30 acres. July 17th, utilities certification. What was reviewed at that time? I'm sorry. This might be for the staff. I don't know if you're not familiar with this. We have a lease agreement, so I don't know if it's donation. But my question is, the staff report, I believe, said Indiantown Utilities Certified Adequate Water and Wastewater Capacity. And is this an actual certification in our record, or have you, your team, reviewed its assumptions? Is this correct, the conditions and the project that will demand this? Hi, I'm Bridget Edwards with Kinley Horn. Um, so we submitted utility plans to the Village of Indiantown, and we received a Village of Indiantown Capacity Letter that was included in our submittal to Martin County. Was this verified with Martin County that this was correct? Now, in the original plans, I believe there was a water tower, but now it's removed. But what happened? The water tower is not a part of this application. We wanted to provide clarification that our project is submitted and the Village of Indiantown tower will be coming, if it comes, will come at a later date and be approved by the county at that time. Okay, but I thought I saw it on the original plan. Did I not see it on the original plan? Yes, I did. Okay. Yes, it was later removed, yes. And why was it removed? It's not proposed to be constructed at this time. I didn't think it was. Yeah, I was wondering, what was that going to be used for? For water? For whom? For water pressure? That was to enhance the water pressure for the area, because there's smaller lines running out to this site, and they're not sure of what capacity their needs are going to be in the future. That's why it was removed, because we don't like to show future development. Yeah, okay. And was it also something to do with the height? That's another reason. It hasn't been designed yet, so we've got to bring it back to the board for approval. Okay, because it's there, it's not there. It kind of vanishes, you know, and I'm wondering what happened there. The other thing is about the carnival, those that work and make the fair run, vendor camping, and I know we talked about this before way, way back. I believe it was last year. Was the demand included also? I know you mentioned a couple of porta-potties coming in as you need. Vendor camping will be handled on a temporary basis, so they'll have a pump station truck to take. Okay, so there are no utility hookups for the carnival operators? Not at this time. No, not at this time. Okay, because I didn't see that there also, because you have wastewater, you have electrical emergency access reviews. The other thing is, of course, let's go back to the water. So are you aware that other residential projects are also struggling to get water in the area? Are you ahead of this? Did you have a reservation? Yes, I work closely with Indiantown as well, and I am aware of that, and this is why we haven't proposed we removed the water tower from this at the time, because we're going to come back and closely work with them on the best solution for what the needs are. This is a temporary facility, and we will make sure the needs are met for when we do have the operation of the fair here. And we do have a utility letter provided from the village of Indiantown that say we do have capacity, so I don't know how else to address that at this time. Okay, but you don't have that definite yet because everything is temporary facilities that you're bringing in, correct? No, not correct. We have a definite capacity utility letter saying that the village will provide it. It's not going to be on Marin County utilities, so we shall figure out with the appropriate water, wastewater people out in Indiantown, what is the needs, and we'll get the needs met for this project. What did they say in the letter? The capacity was needed? I don't have it in front of me, but I'm sure... Can I get a copy of it? Yeah, we can certainly give you a copy of it. Appreciate that. Yeah, of course. Yeah, okay. The other thing is, you know, the thing is that there are some changes here, and I, you know, I want to be sure. What is... Have you been able to procure additional funding? This might be for your president. Yeah, and I'm not sure what changes you're talking about other than... I just want to clarify what changes you're talking about, Commissioner Vargas. It's just the elimination of the water tower. Is that what you're... Well, that also in the water. Or, you know, the certification letter that you say you have? Well, that was part of the approval that staff had thoroughly reviewed with staff reports and back and forth and addressing the needs to meet the standard of the LDRs. Okay. What do you have from Indiantown? That's what I'm asking for, that letter. Yes, ma'am. Here's Susan. So you can get that. You have it. Okay. Once again, Susan Gibbs-Thomas. Historically, I think on that piece of property, I know what you're speaking to, new incoming projects are having to wait because the water plant does not have capacity. And what this piece of property had, it was kind of, I don't want to say, grandfathered in. However, they have capacity that was already reserved for that plot of land out there. That's the reason that they were able to confidently provide a letter saying that we would have capacity because they had already future, had put that aside for that piece of property out there. So that's the reason that you're saying, well, new ones coming in are having to wait. They are because this was already proposed. And so they had reserved that in advance. Now, as far as money goes, we made the October 1st grant application. We have a new grant application into the state of Florida. I think that's horrible with figures, but I want to say it is a total of either $12 million or $13 million. Nine of it is actually the grant application. $4 million would be in matching, whether that be through our capital campaign that we are raising money. Also, in kind, as we go through that build-out process, that the people that will and the businesses that will be working with us, that will be able to provide services there in kind. So we're looking at at least another $12 million, $13 million, in addition to the grants that we currently have that we are working off of. We have just completed one $260,000 grant. We have completed that one. We are now working on a $600,000 grant, and we also have a $900,000 grant. So we have about $1.5 million that we are currently working on as we move forward in these first phases. Okay, so other than the promised grants, have you been able to, you know, make your chest go large? Absolutely. That's absolutely, as you were, you, so wonderfully and appreciate you and Commissioner Capps attending our wonderful groundbreaking. And you saw at that event, we have communities stepping up. And just, that was just, that's just, once again, early stages, the community stepping up, promising money in that capital campaign. So we're working on it. We are actively working on it, and we're getting response. What's your deadline for this money? Whenever you can get it to us. Well, I mean, this could go on for 10 years, isn't there some sort of. . . Oh, absolutely. If you look at our. . . We're talking about milestones here. Absolutely, and right now, we, today is a milestone for us. This is the first time that we have been this far, and I am thrilled to be able to be a part of it. The, we will be, we will be following our lease. Our lease gives us three years to, I guess, build out and to have it even, I'm not too sure of the wording here. I have it in front of me. Within, so within three years after site approval to have these performance measures completed, which is your part, all those things that were on there. So we have three years. We anticipate it being less than that. We hope to have it less than that. We are, confidence in our funding. We are moving forward with the funding. And quite honestly, right now, that's, we're kind of, that's one of our least worries. We know that we have the support. FDACS is wonderful to work with. They have been very supportive. Community has been very supportive as we have moved forward. So we're just moving forward. Okay. I just want us to be in the position that St. Lucie County found themselves in. They had to take over from a nonprofit that went defunct. And we're not in that position anymore. Things changed about a week ago. Yes, ma'am. I understand that. A lot. I understand that. Okay. The other thing is landlord, as a landlord, and this might be to you, Ms. Elder, also, aside from this land use decision, when will the county be receiving the itemized cost and the funding plan for the lease required improvements? And how will we be verifying the county, the construction performance security, and the monitor milestones? Because everything has to be measured. Absolutely. It's not just here you go and off you go, and we don't know what's going on. So I'm going to defer to Mr. Fox on that. I think that's something that the Real Property Division monitors our leases, so it's separate from the growth management approval. So usually it's our Real Property Division who will monitor the construction and the performance measures due under the lease. So when will we start to receive itemized cost and funding for this venture? I would have to check with Real Property and get back with you. I don't have that answer in front of me. I really would appreciate it. That's very important. This is our land for our constituents, and we have to safeguard this. I also want to request, since I haven't seen the certification yet that you said you'll provide. Okay. That's a big question. Bridget here with Kimley, who's done the civil, can attest to the capacity. I'm sorry, but I've got to see. We did a water use calculation based off of the existing fair's use and their peak uses, because the fair is a unique use. It's difficult to calculate it based off of any Florida statutes. So we looked at the existing use of the existing fair and provided that to the Village of Indiantown to obtain our capacity letter. I understand. I still would like to see the capacity letter, if you don't mind. I would like to also know, is it possible, since we're be seating a new commissioner next week, that that commissioner also have input on this? This is a long-range plan, and we are relying on this group to perform. So I would like to request that we have an additional agenda item coming up, if it's next week or the following week or three weeks from now, to be able to review this so that that commissioner has a chance to look at this. As you know, we can't speak to anybody, so I think it's critical. Who's staff dies? Mr. Walden? Sebastian Fox, senior assistant county attorney. Just to address some of your questions about improvements, as part of the post-approval process for this site plan, the applicant will be required to post a bond to cover the cost of all improvements, and the county will be monitoring the development as it progresses. You? You will be? I will not personally be, no. Who will be doing that? I suspect our growth management, engineering department, engineering services. And how often will that be? That was my question, but is it? We annually look at all of our bonds on an ongoing basis. Michael, you need to be on the microphone in the record. Remember, all of you all are sworn in. Yeah, if you're not sworn in, you have to raise your hand. Do you swear or affirm the evidence you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so I'll help you to add. I do. Good afternoon, commissioners. Michael Grzelka, the county engineer, for the record. The engineering services department handles all the construction bonds and monitors all the construction bonds. We are also the group that reviews the progress of the construction and authorizes the release of the construction bonds as the project becomes complete. And meeting the standards of the approved plans. Yeah, I understand what you're saying. Again, I'm requesting that we have another agenda item to discuss this as we move forward. Again, I haven't seen that particular piece of paperwork from Indiantown. And I think it's important that everybody, you know, have a look at this again, again, since we're seeding a new commission. Excuse me. Once again, this is Michael Grzelka, the county engineer. This project would not have gotten this far if they did not receive the service capacity letter from the village of Indiantown, and that falls under the engineering services review as well. So it would not have gone forward or gotten this way without having that letter submitted and in the file. Right. You know, the water capacity out there, the water plant doesn't have that yet. So, I mean, I was there for that event also. So there are other uses. There are other buildings. There are other residential developments that are waiting for water also. So I was kind of curious as to how this happened. We have to rely on the village of Indiantown's utilities, putting it in writing, that they have the capacity for this project. Yeah, I understand that. But it just doesn't jibe. I mean, I've spoken with other property owners out there, and they don't quite understand how this came there. Can I remind you, this is an event that happens annually, and it's not water capacity we are having daily. I just wanted that to be noted for the record. And also, the Fair Association had an agreement in the lease, plans a lot of these items out. So I'd recommend you review the lease as well for that agreement of what the association will pay for in terms of the maintenance and repair. I have read the lease. Okay, great. I've read the lease. Awesome. I have that, but you're the one that's promoting for this group. So that's why I'm asking you these questions. I have a copy of the lease as of months ago. Good. Mr. Canty. Thank you for a little bit of historic perspective. We started this process probably a decade ago, and it was originally 110 acres that we had negotiated. This lease is probably, in my experience, the most vetted lease, the most run-through. We've taken more votes on moving the Fair to Indiantown. It's an organization that, you know, sometimes we forget that the folks that run the Martin County Fair are Martin County residents. They put on and host this. They do 4-H events. It has been vetted. They shaved. I was part of it. We shaved lots of acreage off to add the Indiantown High School to it. We've shaved additional property off. We've asked them to jump through hoop after hoop after hoop. Many of the original negotiators to the lease have left the county, and some have long retired. That's how long this process has been. With all due respect to our new colleagues, this is the current commission. Not all decisions that are made today need to be redone. This has been something that's been going on. The Fair Association, we thought they'd be out there several years ago with the Fair. And so it is very well vetted by everyone. Our staff, our legal staff, our engineering staff, environmental staff, South Florida Water Management District. We've had lots of false starts and stops. Today is meant to be actually really a historic day in terms of moving the ball very much forward, although some people are newer to the process, which completely understand. But this is within my district. It was something that we've been working on. Many of the folks, their board has had many changes. They're on like their third fair director or fourth since this started. So it's definitely not something that we've just put together. It's been in the works for a long, long time, and today is the day that we allow them to get finally started, which I also think will go a long way to allowing them to fundraise. Because a lot of, I remember, a lot of institutional or large-scale donors did not want to put their money in yet until we had reached this milestone. So I think you'll see an opportunity for them to really start to fundraise. Because there's been, like I mentioned, a lot of false starts and stops. And if you're going to write a check for a half a million dollars or a million dollars as a donation, they need to see some, you know, really locked-in consistency, which is what today will bring us. Is there a motion? Yes, in a second. In a second. Any further discussion? I would advise you. Well, listen, I do have an opinion about this. You may have been here for 10 years. However, I stated at the beginning that I don't want us to be in the position that St. Lucie was put in with another nonprofit. And they weren't able to continue. So, again, these are assets, and it's all very, very good that you have the high school out there. Now you shaved off a lot in, you know, how you speak, and I understand all of that. But we're talking, and I can't read this, but you can get me a copy of it. You can get me a hard copy. I'm not here to read that right now. But I mean from Indian Town, okay? I can get what I need from here. So, I'm very, very careful because I still don't understand why this is not going to be in Timers Powers Parks. I really don't understand that. Instead, we're building this huge center over here, and it has been a rough ride for you. We have to admit that. Rough ride. So, I'm hesitant to go along with this right now. I'd really have to see how this starts to shape up. I mean, we're counting on grants in the future, and we may get this money, and, you know, private donors, and that type of thing. So, with all due respect to my colleague, he's a little annoyed because I don't agree with him, but I don't. And I love a fair. I'm not annoyed at all. Excuse me. Excuse me. Not annoyed at all. If you say so. I want to see this succeed, but it has to be done well. And I don't see that the funding is there in place to continue forward, is what I'm saying. I have a lot of questions, and everybody had an answer for it, but not really. Well, the answer to the question, and believe me, I understand your concern about the water issue. I am a former council member on the Village of Indiantown. I'm a former mayor. I understand that whole process. I also understand that your issue is not with us or it's with the Village of Indiantown and their ability to provide what they said that they're able to provide. They have given us their assurance that they have already allotted the allowable water that we are able to use. Other subdivisions, other people coming in are just now coming in. They do not have the capacity allotted for them. They had it because this has been an ongoing thing. They have allotted for that. So I would say that your concern is with them. We can do nothing except rely on what the Village of Indiantown has expressed to us in writing that we are able to proceed with confidence that they have the water for us. Okay. Well, and I understand what you're saying. Okay. I do. I really do. But I would ask for a continuance of this. It's not a denial, just a continuance. By waiting a week or two weeks or three weeks is not going to stop anything that you've already been doing at this point. I'm already speaking with people. I was at your event, and I know the pledges that you had there, and I hope they do come through for you. As I say, I love a fair. I know the Miami-Dade County Youth Fair. Fantastic. But they were strong financially also. And in these uncertain times, I definitely don't want there to be a hiccup for you. I understand. For you. Would anyone from the public like to address us? Yes, sir. This feels like speak now or fold your piece on the fair. And it has been a long time talking about moving the fair, and I've always wanted to come up and say, hey, wait a minute. And now I am. So I remember, you know, my kids were small. We'd go to the fair every year. What a great thing. A city folk getting to see rabbits and chickens and pigs and cows and horses and that whole other lifestyle that all of us in the eastern part of the county and the city don't even know existed. Okay? And the kids whose eyes light up and seeing all that, of course, they come for the rides. But then, as parents, you bring them over and show them everything. And it's always greatly appreciated. My only concern with this move out to Indiantown is you're basically going to be preaching to the choir out there. And the idea of bringing that lifestyle and the agricultural and the animals to kids that don't really know it even exists is something that's going to change. And I would guess the numbers of attendees is going to go down because there are a lot of people that are just not going to drive out to Indiantown to go to the fair. And, again, that idea of bringing that beautiful culture out west of the agriculture and the animals into the city kids, that's going away. All right. Thank you. Would you like to address us, sir? Ma'am. And then we are going to wrap things up. My name is Dennis Siaglo. I've taken on the... Dennis, speak into the mic. Dennis Siaglo. I've taken on this project as donating my time to be the construction manager for four years. And we have put budgets together. We've gotten... We know where we can get funding. And when we applied for this $13 million for the state, we had to show in-kind from different companies as well as... And then asking for the amount of money that we needed to get this thing started. And we have a million and a half now. And I am confident that we have the funds to build this. And it's like Susan made the comment, you can't get people like U.S. Sugar and other people, because they've been hearing this thing being kicked down the road for 20 years. So until it starts and gets off the ground, there'll be other people that will contribute to making this happen. So thank you for your time. Thank you. Thank you. There's a motion and a second. Any further comment, questions? All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Opposed. That motion passes for one with Commissioner Vargas dissenting. We're now going to take a 10-minute break. And when we return, we're going to take up immediately Stewart Yacht Corporation. And we're going to move quickly. Thank you, Commissioners. After that. We are back taking up agenda item public hearing quasi-judicial number two, which is a public hearing to consider adoption of an amendment to the Martin County Zoning Atlas. Let's change the zoning classification for Stewart Yacht Corporation. This is quasi-judicial. Any ex parte disclosures? Commissioner Vargas. If I have any, that report has been filed. Commissioner Capps. If I have any, they have been filed. If I have any, they've been filed. Commissioner Campy. If I have any, they've been filed. Commissioner Hetherington. If I have any, they've been filed. And Mr. Aguilar, have you provided all of your required materials to the clerk? A copy of my work history has been turned in as exceeded one. Okay. Anybody who's going to be providing sworn testimony, please stand up, raise your right hand, and be sworn in. Do you swear or affirm the evidence you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I hope you got it. I do. And we have an intervener, so are there special procedures that we need to adopt? So, no, the applicant will give a presentation, and then the board and the intervener can ask questions against the applicant, and then the intervener is given the opportunity to give a presentation, and then everybody can ask questions to the intervener. That's the only difference. Please proceed, Mr. Aguilar. Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, members of the board. My name is Luis Aguilar, Principal Planner for the Growth Management Department. As you mentioned before, there is an intervener. Proof of public notice was thrown in at the LPA meeting. Additionally, copies of public comments received by email have been printed for you today. Today, I'm presenting a resounding application for a property owned by the Stuart Yacht Corporation. The applicant is requesting a zoning change from the current R2 single-family residential district to the WGC, Waterfront General Commercial District. The subject site consists of three parcels located on southwest Chase Court, about 200 feet south of southwest Saberno Road, and west of South Canter Highway. This is an enlarged area of the site. The three parcels are developed. The proposed resounding area is approximately 0.98 acres. The applicant owns most of the nearby properties, except this one over here. The subject site has a future land use designation of commercial waterfront. The adjacent property to the south shares this designation, while the properties to the north are designated as low density. The zoning district is R2 single-family residential. The adjacent property to the south has a waterfront general commercial district. The properties to the north and east have a R3A liberal multifamily and R2 single-family residential. This 1980 aerial image shows the properties out of the subject site used for waterfront commercial purposes already. The existing R2 single-family residential district is a Category B zoning district, and is not compatible with the existing commercial waterfront land use designation under Section 310 of the LDRs. However, this recent request is not considered mandatory. There are two standard Category A zoning districts available to implement the commercial waterfront land use policies of the Comprehensive Growth Management Plan, which are WRC, Waterfront Resort Commercial, and WGC, Waterfront General Commercial. The applicant requests resonding the property to the waterfront commercial district. These are the development standards for the two districts. The main difference is for WRC, the 10 units per acre, and the 30 feet maximum height versus 40 for the WGC. And these are the corresponding setbacks, which are the same for both. This metric highlights the differences between the two districts across various uses. The two districts are similar, but the WGC is intended to accommodate more intensive, water-dependent, and water-related uses. The following conditions support the requested waterfront yard commercial district. First, Objective 4.4-A of the Comprehensive Plan calls for eliminating inconsistencies between the future land use map and the zoning maps and regulations. Additionally, Policy 4.4-A-1 on Resoning states that Martin County shall resound parcels to the most appropriate zoning district, consistent with the land development regulations by the following means. Item number two, property owners seeking master or final site plan approval shall be required to resound to the most appropriate zoning district in the most recently adopted land development regulations. Furthermore, the property and the surrounding areas are already designated as commercial waterfront in the future land use plan. And finally, the proposed waterfront general commercial zoning district is consistent with the existing commercial waterfront designation, and it fits the character of the uses and uses of the neighborhood, of the neighboring properties. This matter was heard before the LPA on July 16, 2026. The LPA voted to deny 221. I'm sorry, it was October, not July. This makes sense. All right. Development review staff have found the Stuart EAD Corporation resounding application to comply with all applicable regulations and the Comprehensive Growth Management Plan as detailed in the staff report. We recommend to move that the board receive and file the agenda item and its attachments, including the staff report as exceeding the one, and move that the board adopt a resolution amending the Martin County zoning atlas to change the zoning district destination on the subject side from R2, Single Family Residential District, to WGC, Waterfront General Commercial District. This concludes my presentation, and the applicant is here and has prepared a presentation as well, and is ready to answer any questions. Questions for Mr. Aguilar. Applicant. Good afternoon. Tyson Waters from the law firm of Fox McCluskey. I'm here on behalf of the applicant Stuart Yacht Corporation. I do want to note for the record that the notices were turned in at the LPA meeting for this hearing as well as the LPA hearing. We appreciate staff's work on this file, and we agree with staff's findings and also support their recommendation of approval, and we'd ask you to do the same this afternoon. So a lot of the staff's already gone over in their presentation, but I do want to reiterate some of it. And these are the four lots. It's lots 1, 2, 3, and 4 in the St. Lucie Settlement, which you see here, and the existing Stuart Yacht Corporation or Grand Bank Yachts operation is immediately to the south. As staff did note, this is a Category B zoning district, R2. It's not consistent with the future land use designation on the property of Waterfront Commercial. And although, as staff noted, it's not mandatory in your land development regulations, where we talk primarily about Category C, as staff did note, in your comprehensive plan, it is mandatory that we are required to bring our zoning up to a compatibility with our land use designation. And so with that, we are requesting today the Waterfront General Commercial Land Use. It's an existing Category A zoning district consistent with the property to the south, again, consistent with the land use designation. And of note, this land use has been on this property since your initial comprehensive plan was approved in 1982. And this is the example. This shows you these are the parcels, and this is taken from your 1982 comprehensive plan zoning or land use map, showing that these parcels were designated by that commission at that time as intended to be Waterfront Commercial. Again, this is the land use designation. You see the commercial waterfront of these four lots, as well as the property to the south, surrounded by low-density residential, again, consistent with what the plan has been since 1982. Zoning designation, kind of a hodgepodge of zoning districts right here. All of them are very old. You've got Waterfront General Commercial that was rezoned that way back in 2006. You've got R2, which is the subject property. And then of note 2, above that is the R3A zoning district. And this is really where we get to the nuts and bolts of this application. We've got a Waterfront Commercial Land Use designation, and the county's comprehensive plan appreciates the uniqueness of this, including the location of a lot of commercial waterfront, because it's such a key cornerstone of Martin County. So what this talks about for redevelopment of Waterfront Commercial, we have to – it acknowledges that you're going to be adjacent to and close to residential. So as part of our – any development or redevelopment, the stability of adjacent and nearby residential areas, through use restrictions, landscaping and screening, and newest abatement standards, are required. So should this property ever be redeveloped, it contemplates that you're going to be close to residential uses, so we have an extra standard put in there in your comprehensive plan. Perhaps even more important, your comprehensive plan contemplates a no-net-loss policy of Waterfront General Land Uses. That's important, and your comprehensive plan, in numerous places, talks about the policy of Martin County is, we don't want to lose Waterfront Commercial Lands. And it actually notes that we don't want to lose it to residential development because there's a push and a key to Martin County that makes us unique for that waterfront commercial, and it's too precious, and once you lose it, it's gone. So you've got this no-net-policy concept. And again, we've got here and a couple more provisions of your land development regulations. Any conflict between the provisions of this article, meaning that land development regulations, and the comprehensive plan, the comprehensive plan shall prevail. And again, Section 4.2 contemplates we're losing Waterfront Commercial Lands to residential development. We've got a no-net policy that if you're going to lose Waterfront Commercial, you've got to find it somewhere else so we don't lose all of our Waterfront Commercial. And as staff noted, we've got two zoning districts that are compatible with the Waterfront Commercial, Waterfront Resort Commercial, and Waterfront General Commercial. We believe Waterfront General Commercial is appropriate in this location, and again, it's consistent with the property to the south. Another unique characteristic of what Stewart Yacht Corporation has done. So what you see here in the red are the properties subject to this rezoning application. What you see in the blue are the other properties Stewart Yacht Corporation owns. Immediately to the south is their primary marina facility. All the other places are other lots that they've purchased, creating this buffer around their operations. And again, this shows that over a current aerial. And of note, there's one out parcel. There's one out parcel in this area that they don't own, and that's owned by St. Lucie Settlement, Inc., and they use it for boat storage. Again, consistent what we're looking for, what's happening in this area. Of note that I mentioned previously, too, to the north, another unique characteristic of this area is the R3A zoning district. This is a Category C zoning district that's not compatible with the land use. But of note, it's only compatible with Waterfront Commercial land use destinations. So this zoning district contemplates a similar waterfront commercial use. And to point that out, in this Category C zoning district, one of the uses allowed and permitted is boat docks and dry and wet storage facilities undercover and facilities for maintenance and repairs of boats and yachts. So, again, we contemplate that in this area there's going to be commercial waterfront uses tied to the waterways. And that's what we're asking you to allow today. And another concern that we've heard is the potential, well, we might like this property owner, but what happens tomorrow when they want to come back in for a site plan or somebody else wants to redevelop? Because of the uniqueness of this peninsula, redevelopment is highly unlikely. So what you see here is the length of the property, the width of the property, I apologize, is a little bit, is between 65 and 75 feet probably, and then at its wider area around 85 feet. Well, what I put here is your setbacks. And of really note is your shoreline protection zone. So if anyone ever wanted to redevelop this site, meaning knock down the structures and put something else back in there, you're going from 65 feet, you're taking away 50 feet of land for your waterfront setbacks, so you've got anywhere from 15 to 30 feet of land to build on. And you just can't really fit a large structure within that area. So I think the redevelopment potential is minimized because of just the natural characteristics of this parcel of land. And with that, I'd actually like to call Hank Compton up here, the managing partner for Stewart Yacht Corporation, to discuss who they are and what the company does in this area. Hello and good afternoon, commissioners, staff. I'll try to make this brief. I know you all have had a very long day. But my name is Hank Compton. I'm the managing director for Grand Banks Yachts. I've been with the company for just over 22 years, and I appreciate the opportunity today to tell you a little bit more about who we are. Grand Banks has a history going back to 1956. So we're celebrating our 70th anniversary this year, which is very exciting for us. We started building our traditional wooden yachts and have evolved into one of the world's leading builders of luxury motor yachts, one of the best in the world today. We manufacture two internationally recognized brands, Grand Banks and Palm Beach Motor Yachts. And we're a publicly listed company in Singapore on the Singapore Stock Exchange. Our primary market is here in the United States. Most of our boats will at some point visit Florida. It's our primary commissioning center for our boats there on Salerno. And we build roughly 30 boats a year. So it's not a high-volume business. You know, as the boats get a little bit bigger, the volume drops down. So we're, again, anywhere between 25 and 30 boats per year. So, again, not high-volume. Stuart has become a very important base for our business in North America, including yacht sales, deliveries, commissioning, service, and customer support. Now, we are not building boats in this facility. It's more of a facility. You know, when we ship a boat from our manufacturing facility in Malaysia, it comes here, spends about two weeks with us on average. We tidy it up, clean it up, test all the systems, do the training for our owners, and hand the boat over to them, and they go off on their way and, you know, do their thing. On a personal note, I was involved in the original purchase of the boatyard from the Burdick family and spent four years living in Stuart, overseeing his transformation into the facility we have today. So this property is particularly important to me and to our business. I'm proud of what we have accomplished here, and I'm more excited about what we have planned for the future. Now, our vision for the property is a little different than your traditional commercial marine facilities. We want to create something that feels more like a private owner's club, more than, you know, a traditional boatyard or service facility. We want an attractive, welcoming waterfront environment that has character, beautiful landscaping, and a real sense of community for our owners, a place where the owners can enjoy spending time rather than simply bringing their boat there for service, dropping it off. And we've built little villas all around the boatyard where people can come and stay. They drop the boat off, stay for a few days while they're waiting for us to do the work, and then they can get back on the boat and, again, leave for whatever their destination might be. Just as importantly, we recognize that we're part of an established neighborhood, and being a good neighbor is extremely important to us. We have made a huge effort to improve the appearance of our properties and create a facility that complements the surrounding area. We want our neighbors to see us as an asset to the neighborhood, not just another commercial operation. And I think we've done that. I'll be very curious to hear what other people have to say, but we've made a huge effort to try and do that. We also believe it's important, as Tyson said, to preserve working waterfront properties for businesses like ours. Because, you know, these marine facilities, once they disappear, they're extremely difficult to replicate. And for our business, it's a must. I mean, we have to have it. You know, it's hard to make everyone happy, but we feel like we've done a good job, so we hope we have this opportunity to do even better. We employ 60 people in that facility now. When we started, we started with 15. And I don't know. It's hard to know for sure. I don't anticipate, you know, a lot more growth. But, you know, if we had sort of 70 people, it's kind of where we think we need to be at to have a healthy business there and to do what we need to do. But we are a good employer, I think, for Stewart. In addition, there's vendors. You know, there's a whole lot of, you know, third parties that are involved, you know, in our business, whether they're anti-fowlers, boat suppliers. I mean, all of your, you know, it's so many, you know, different things. So we think we're a good neighbor, and I think we'd really like the opportunity to move forward with this new venture. So that's all I have. So thank you for your time and consideration. So just in conclusion, just a few points. One, we're not proposing any new development. The idea with this piece of property is there's a structure at the end of the peninsula that we will renovate and improve and rehab, and that's where these offices and uses will go. That's all. No new development, no redevelopment of the site. Of course, any time we want to redevelop or do anything else, it would be a site plan. But, again, there's natural constraints on that property, which would limit any potential redevelopment. Also, I know there's concerns about traffic on Salerno. As Mr. Compton noted, the boats that come here start in Jacksonville, and by water, they come down to this site. So it's very rare that any vessel traffic would be on Salerno Road. So because of this change would not increase traffic on Salerno or create any additional impacts on that road. Again, the only thing we're asking as part of this application is a rezoning of lots 1, 2, 3, and 4. And I can't reiterate enough what this rezoning does. It brings this property into compliance with your comprehensive plan. There's multiple provisions in your comprehensive plan that mandates that we do this rezoning because we are going to change the use from residential to commercial. This rezoning is mandatory by your comprehensive plan, and this assures that we also meet the requirement that there's no net loss of your commercial waterfront. And with that, we're certainly here for any questions that you may have. And thank you very much for your time. And, again, we'd ask that you agree with staff and approve this rezoning request. Questions for Mr. Waters? Thank you. Do you see any? Bless you. Next is the intervener. Thank you very much, commissioners. My name is Seth Bain. I'm a resident of Palm City. I'm an attorney with Lewis, Lawman, and Walker. I'm certified in city, county, local government. I'm here today on behalf of St. Lucie Settlement HOA. And I should have requested an intervener on their status. Thank you for everything you've done today, a lot of big, challenging issues that you've had to tackle. I represent several drainage districts throughout the state. And that weather event has put us all back on our heels. So I appreciate the work you're doing there. I bring a few different perspectives today because in my life I've actually been a professional boat builder. I worked at Rybovich Spencer in the 2000s and loved the boat industry. I also have a master's degree in urban and regional planning from Florida Atlantic University and worked as a professional land planner for many years before realizing that I was never getting raised unless I went to law school. So I did that. So Mr. Wattos today has said to you that you should trust your comprehensive plan and rely upon it. And I am in a complete agreement with this statement. And at the conclusion of my comments, I'm going to ask you to do exactly that. However, the premise that he wants to insist upon is the notion that if the requested zoning category is consistent with the underlying future land use, then your inquiry is complete, the zoning should be granted, and no further evidence is required, and everything will just proceed as is. If that were true, then you wouldn't need these seven standards in your zoning code for what makes requires a rezoning to be considered before it can be reviewed. The only requirement was, is it consistent with the underlying land use? You're done. That's not what this says. This says that before it can be met, that you have to protect your communities from incompatible development so that you can be certain that public infrastructure and utilities can handle the additional impacts. Your comprehensive plan states the code shall assist in maintaining the stability of adjacent and nearby residential areas through use restrictions, landscaping and screening, nuisance abatement standards. And today I'm going to discuss just how that can and should be accomplished. Because the central issue we have today is that the applicant, we just heard sort of two different things, right? We heard from Mr. Waters the notion that, look, we're not looking to do anything right now. We've got a building that exists, and we're just going to clean it up a little bit and use it. But we also heard from the managing director there at the Yacht Yard, like, yeah, we own a lot of land here, and we've got a vision for the future and what this site could be. My suggestion to you is we should be having a discussion about what that future should look like, because if you allow this rezoning today, we may never get that opportunity to have that discussion, and the community will not have that opportunity to have that discussion. And that's exactly what your comprehensive plan asks you to do, because as they pointed out themselves, this is the property that they own. The triangle at the bottom is the existing marina. They've done an amazing job with a very limited amount of space to grow that space and handle the yacht traffic they have there. They have this fit in the middle, which is, of course, what we're here today to talk about. And as they pointed out, the thing is only 60 to 80 feet wide. Then they also own all this other land around it, and the two larger lots to the front were just pointed out to us. And this was actually helpful news to me, because I couldn't find anything about that R3A. But that's one of those sites that absolutely should be, in fact, rezoned, and we should be looking at the opportunity of what those uses could be on there. So they talk about the notion that, well, they bought all this stuff around it, and it buffers it. What doesn't buffer it if part of their plans expand into what's there today? They have a vacant lot as one of those lots they've been using for overflow parking. There's this part of that R3A site had been the Lost River Marina. It had some commercial on it already previously. And so these are the things that we should be talking about. We've been discussing those things like buffers and communities and neighborhood impacts. They're correct that that center spit has that water general commercial land use. I'm not disputing that. It's been there for a long time. But also what's happened there is that same spit of land was made part of a residential community plat, and it was platted for four residential lots. The fact that they were 80 feet wide was less of a challenge for those homes. It was built as residential property. It was really in somewhat reflection of what could fit on that space. And so when we look at what that was, I'm not saying that these are – I'm a land use attorney. I understand property rights. That's not what we're here to talk about today. Nobody's stripping away that land use. We're saying we should be having a conversation about what's going on there, what those buffers are, and, quite frankly, what's happening on the rest of these properties. Because, as we pointed out, here is the subject site. It is surrounded by residential on most of its sides. Yes, they own some of it. But, as was pointed out, that R3A is part of that area that should be rezoned. So there was actually three zoning categories that are appropriate to this space. The WGC is compatible, the WRC. And, as the staff report points out, in your community, a planned unit development is also compatible with this underlying land use district. Why is a planned unit development important? Because that zoning category requires a site plan to travel with it. So you understand what those buffers are, what those setbacks are going to be, what's it going to look like, how are you going to protect the community, what's the traffic impact, what does 70 employees and the rest of the consultants, what's that impact look like on these roads and these communities? Yes, it's important to protect these lands. Yes, it's important to protect these neighborhoods in which they are found. So then they pointed out that they want, they've asked for the WGC, the General Commercial District, and not the WRC. They say that that one's the one that's more appropriate. So, you know, without any specific direction, we have to ask ourselves, well, why would they choose that one over the other? Well, here are the ones, here are the differences between the two. What does Waterfront General Commercial allow that the other one doesn't? Wholesale trades and services, sure. Industrial uses, extensive impact industries, extensive impact industries on a less than one acre lot surrounded by residential communities accessed by roads that are barely 20 feet wide. Targeted industry businesses, also important, permitted marine and marine related manufacturing on this site. These are the uses that the resort commercial district, which actually allows residential, but the WGC does not. I'm going to raise that point in a minute. But it sounds like that use is not, is less consistent with the surrounding commercial. Then why is that also important? At the land planning hearing, there was some discussion about, well, when we come back with a site plan, we'll have a chance to talk about that. And then they cleaned up that a little bit because a site plan doesn't necessarily come back to you, right? These are the thresholds for a site plan. For that targeted industry's business, as long as it's under 100,000 square feet, that's administrative approval. Industrial development, 100,000 square feet, that's administrative approval. It does not come back to you. And more importantly, it doesn't come back to the community for discussion about what those buffers could look like, what those use restrictions should be, what those hours of operations that make sense. How bright should those lights be? At the end of the day, this is an increase in intensity over the site. I know under your code, the standards for facilities is such that, well, as long as there's a rezoning or something that's consistent, then your facilities aren't, public facilities aren't an issue, or you can ask for that waiver. Nevertheless, increase max coverage, increase up to four stories on this site. So going back, these are the standards that you're required to look at. So when you're looking at the comprehensive plan, as they pointed out, they should be talking about use restrictions, landscaping and screening, nuisance abatement standards. None of that's before you today because they're saying they don't need to. But if they'd come forward with a plan unit development for all of their property and a site plan, you could be having the discussions about those exact things. Is it compatible with the character and the existing land use of the adjacent property? As I pointed out, extensive industrial use is permitted here. Manufacturing, I would argue that despite the fact that it's consistent with the underlying land use, that's not what the pattern of this small, older, developed residential community is like. Are there demands on public facilities? This picture is a week ago Saturday before all the rain started. This is the entrance to the property where that's the marina there straight ahead. Instead, you would have to go a little further and make a right to get to these properties that are being rezoned. This is just standard king flood tides to get to this facility. And then would it result in logically, timely, and ordered development pattern, which conserves the value of existing development, conserves the value of the existing development and its appropriate use of the county's resources? They own all of this. If there is an orderly development pattern for this site, for these properties, let's have that conversation. Bring that path forward. Where is that campus master plan? Some of it's permitted. We've heard there's clearly a creeping into the environment, into this neighborhood. The scale of this is significant. The access to it is nominal to get through these neighborhoods. The amount of traffic this would generate, surprising. None of this is to say they can't do it. It's to say that we should be having this conversation. I look forward to sitting down with their planning, with their master planner, and looking at how they're going to protect the neighborhood, how they're going to do these uses, how they're going to have, what is the amount of parking, what is the landscaping, what are the buffers, how are you going to access it? These things are critical to protect the neighborhood and you. Last thing I want to point out is I'm not sure how this rezoning is not creating a non-conforming use and probably a non-conforming condition. There are two residential single-family homes on this property. Residential uses are not permitted. We've heard that one of them, and Mr. Tyson said that they're going to convert one of them to some sort of office with some structural changes. That's still going to require, well, first of all, I'm not sure if it meets the current stamp setback. So it may be creating a non-conforming, a new commercial non-conformity. Your commercial standards sites still need parking. They still need to meet a threshold. They're saying, oh, we're going to use the rest of the site for parking. How much of it's for parking? Is this overflow parking? Is this parking that should be screened, landscaped, and closed? Outdoor storage of boats? Working on boats on this bit of land? These are all questions that we need to understand so that you can put the appropriate conditions in place to protect the neighborhood. That's all we're asking. It seems like we're creating a non-conformity. Even at the very least, there should be a site plan traveling with us to show how this commercial portion is going to work on here, and some promise that that is, in fact, all they're going to do on the site until they come back to you and ask for additional uses. So these are your rezoning requirements. You're not required to do the maximum intensity. I think that it makes all the sense in the world to require them to come back with a PUD for all the property involved in light of the uses that they're using, their intent, long-term intent, the need to protect the property, and need for the neighborhood to understand what's going to ultimately be done here. And I'd be happy to address any questions you might have. Questions? Thank you. Thank you. Ms. Elder, what's next? So next, you can let the applicant respond, or we can call for public comment. Would you like to respond? Yes, ma'am. Just two quick points. One, there was a discussion about a citation to Section 3.2E1 of the comp plan. That actually is part of the land development regulations. And, again, I think that's key here because those land development regulations implement your comprehensive plan. And when you go back to your comprehensive plan, that's your governing document. That's your constitution. And that constitution says you have to rezone this to something compatible with your land use designation. And you can't lose waterfront commercial property unless you find it somewhere else. And, again, I think those are overriding principles that date back to 1982 when these parcels were designated as commercial waterfronts. It's continuing that heritage within Martin County to make sure we preserve commercial waterfront. And, again, your comprehensive plan contemplates that commercial waterfront is going to be part of and close to residential development. So in the event it is ever redeveloped or developed, then you've got to meet additional standards. And that leads me to my second point is we're not looking to improve this piece of property. We admit that if we're going to redevelop this property, we've got to come back in for a site plan. And as I already mentioned, because this property is so narrow and your shoreline protection zones are so great, I can't imagine that we'd be able to redevelop this site straight zoning. So odds are we'd have to come back with a PUD. But even if not, even any site plan, if we ever want to redevelop this site, there's a notice requirement. There's public participation. So that's a future day. That's something different. But right now, right today, we're not looking to redevelop the property. We are just looking to use the property compatible with its future land use and use it as waterfront commercial. And, again, with that, I once again would ask you to agree with your staff and approve the requested rezoning. Thank you very much. Thank you. We'll now hear from the public. The first request to speak form I have is from Frank Bowman. You will each have three minutes to address us. Hello, I'm Frank Bowman. I live in the neighborhood that we're talking about here. I sent an email to all of you earlier. I'm going to read just a portion of it and then just say a couple words. My primary concern is a preservation of our established residential neighborhood. Residential and commercial zoning classifications exist for a reason, to ensure compatible land use, protect homeowners, homeowners, and prevent commercial activities from encroaching into areas intended for residential living. Approving the rezoning would undermine those protections and potentially open the door for further commercial expansion into our neighborhood. The properties in question are located within the St. Lucie Settlement Homeowners Association, which also owns portions of the affected areas, including the private road and adjoining common property. These are not simply vacant parcels isolated from residential development. They are part of an established community whose homeowners have legitimate expectations that the residential character of their neighborhood will remain respected. So, you guys all live here in Martin County. You live here probably because you love it, right? You probably enjoy your neighborhoods. I enjoy my neighborhood. I love my neighborhood. Well, I'm sure you can empathize with me and those of us that live in that neighborhood that what if suddenly somebody wants to come in and expand a small commercial operation that's been there for 30 years, mom and pop's thing, and grow it into something who knows what? Now, this attorney here has said, we have no plan. What billion-dollar company doesn't have a one-year, a three-year, a five-year plan? You're not just doing this for no reason at all. They've already started putting in seawalls. They've already started doing all kinds of work. They have a plan. So, my vision, since you all live in this area, you're coming south on 95 when you get off on Canter Highway. What do you see off to the right-hand side there on the South Fork? You see these Goliath five-story buildings and stuff like that where they store boats and dry dock and all this stuff. This is a mom and pop's thing. It was built for that, and it's great. I'm not a, what do they call it, Namby or whatever. We need money. We need, we need, I think it's a good thing, the waterfront. But this right here is not the place to do it. This is a little neighborhood. It's a really cute neighborhood with a narrow road. It's almost on like a little island. So, anyway, thank you. Thank you. Larry Bonadeo is next, followed by Karen Endress. I'm not Larry. Would you identify yourself for the record, please? Yeah. My name is Kim Erland. I do live in St. Lucie Settlement. And Larry had to leave this morning, so he gave me this piece of paper that he was hoping that I could read to you. He opposes, and he has here, and he would love to leave this with you. I don't know if there's room for that, but he has signatures from 25 people in the area opposing this rezoning. And they signed this petition, and the things that they signed are as follows. We are firmly opposed to changing the existing zoning from the R2 status to commercial of any kind, and it should be forever prohibited. Below are just a few of the reasons. One, preservation of our neighborhood character. A change from residential to any commercial in the area will forever change the character of our old Florida neighborhood. When the original Stewart Yacht was built, it was a mom-and-pop local business that was grandfathered in the area. It was never envisioned by our community or by Martin County that it would be sold to a multinational company that would then start acquiring other properties to join their original acquisition. Number two, infrastructure and traffic concerns. The entire neighborhood, especially Salerno Road, does not support the traffic that already exists due to the change of ownership of Stewart Yacht and the other properties acquired by the publicly traded multinational company that owns not only Stewart Yacht, but the assets of the old Lost River Marine, as well as many single-family homes in the area. Salerno Road, in and of itself, does not meet the minimum criteria for a two-lane road in the vicinity of the proposed changes. This does not just affect the areas within 500 feet of the proposed property, but everyone in the entire area. And this next one he was very firm on, overdevelopment. This is primarily a residential and agricultural neighborhood except for Stewart Yacht. The county should not allow under any circumstances any company to start changing the residential landscape of our area, let alone grant them an exception from having the proper infrastructure in place to support such development. For other mitigating issues, our county allows small home-operated businesses to work from their residences. It was never the intent to allow for these, such as Lost River Marine, to be sold and converted commercial properties. This business is not a property owner working a small business from his or her home, as our county intended. If you allow them these changes, what stops anyone who has a home business in the area from converting it to commercial property? Five, is that, oh, okay, opportunity for Martin County. This is both the opportunity for our county to protect the residential area for which this was intended and to make Stewart Yacht bring the infrastructure up to sizes at their sole expense. It's the roadway and other areas that their growth by acquiring, blah, blah, blah. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Would anybody like a copy of? Sure, you can hand it to the clerk. Thank you. Karen Endress is next, followed by Jeff Endress. Good afternoon. Hi. I'm a homeowner at 595 Southwest Salerno Road in Stewart. Speak into the mic a little bit. Sorry. I am strongly opposed to the proposed rezoning by Stewart Yacht Corporation scheduled for discussion today. I object to the proposed zoning change. The lots in question are part of the St. Lucie Settlement Homeowners Association. Additional commercial use negatively impacts our quiet neighborhood. If successful, the rezoning could result in very intense commercial use of this property. Our roads are very narrow and cannot support two cars passing, much less the increase in commercial vehicles. The increase in noise level has already increased in our neighborhood. This is very scary for a big company to come into our small-nitch neighborhood, buy six properties, tear one down already for a parking lot, and who knows what else they have planned. What else will they do? I live directly across from Stewart Yacht Corporation and am already being impacted by the daily noise and increased traffic. I highly encourage you to deny this application, and I thank you for your time. Thank you. Jeff Endres is next, followed by Kim Erland. Hello, Commissioners. Thank you for listening to us. I'm Jeff Endres. I live at 595 Salerno Road, and I'm adamantly against any changes. My wife and I bought into this neighborhood in 1997. We knew it was a small operating business there. We had no problem with Stewart Yacht. They were great. They were members of our community being in the HOA. What's happening is they're taking the residential homes that were part of our HOA neighborhood, they're taking those four lots, and they're making them commercial. If four residences lived there before, they were happy living there. That's what I bought into. Now they're going to change this into commercial. The roads, like you've heard, can't handle this. The traffic can't handle this. Fifty employees coming and going, vendors. We have semi-trucks backing up, going in, blocking roads. It's very unsafe right now. I hope you guys would do a traffic study, find out. Maybe we need a red light at the end of our neighborhood now. It's that bad. It's very dangerous. Neighbors can't walk. I'm riding our bikes through the neighborhood just on Salerno Road is just pathetic. It is really sad. If you guys lived on our street, you would be equally upset. I voted for most of you guys. I support you guys. And the reason is hoping that you would support people like myself, a resident of Martin County. Thank you for your time. Kim Erland is next, followed by Frank Bowman. Yeah, I'm sorry. You can't go twice. Sorry. Oh, but I was reading his letter. That was you reading it. Yeah. Sorry. Are you kidding? Nope. Because I've got, like, really good things to say. Find another person to read them for you. Frank Bowman is next, followed by Jackie Martin. Okay. Jackie Martin. And Jackie, you win the prize today for best baby. I haven't heard a peep. No. Or from the baby. Good afternoon. My name is Jackie Martin. Obviously, this is my son, Ethan Martin. I'm coming as a homeowner who lives directly across the street from one of the yacht companies villas, as I like to say. I came to speak today not only as a property owner, but also as a young mother who's raising a family in this community. One of the things that makes our coastal neighborhood special is the ability to enjoy the simple things in life. Taking a walk, getting outside with your family, enjoying the quiet streets, and feeling safe in the place you call home. These are the reasons many of us should still live here. Unfortunately, the sense of safety in communities already being compromised by the increased traffic associated with this operation. What may look like another business opportunity on paper has become a very real problem for the people who live here. Something that isn't being talked about enough on their side is the commercial traffic. We are experiencing constant traffic congestion. Their drivers and their workers do not follow the traffic signs, in addition to semi-trucks in our residential area. This isn't Canter Highway. This is a very little town and a very little neighborhood. To make matters worse, as Ben mentioned, we don't even have sidewalks in our area. Our streets are one lane with no sidewalks. So we're already sharing the road with these vehicles and the level of traffic congestion that they have brought. As a mother with a newborn baby, I should be able to put my baby in a stroller and take a walk without worrying whether the roads are safe and whether the drivers are going to put us in danger. Honestly, I would ask the people who work there to consider this. Would you want to drive and be in a neighborhood like this? This is a residential community, not an industrial park. We shouldn't have to sacrifice the safety and character of our neighborhood to accommodate a business operation that is increasingly disrupting the lives of the people who live here. One of the things that makes Martin County so special is its small-town feel, its sense of community, its beautiful coastal neighborhoods, and the quality of life that so many families have chosen to live here. Growth and business opportunities are important, but they should never come to the expense of the very things that make Martin County special. We need to remember we are trying to preserve, not what we are trying to develop. I respectfully ask that you consider the residents and families who call this neighborhood home before moving forward. Thank you. Thank you. David Commence is next. You spoke this morning, sir. Sorry, you can only speak once. I'm sorry, sir. Our policy is Edward Martin is next. Good afternoon. Good evening, Commissioners. My name is Edward Martin. I live at 6887 Southwest Garnet Drive, right across the street from the property in question for the rezoning. When I first bought this property in 2019, I was excited that there was a yacht builder there. I thought it was cool. I loved being around the marine industry, but it's been increasingly detrimental to my desire to want to stay there. I don't want to leave, but I also don't want to see this commercial property just keep expanding and expanding and taking away from that hometown feel that is there. Every day I hear from my wife about how a car almost ran or off the road or nobody slowed down, and I've experienced the same thing. I drive 17 miles an hour down our street whenever I go to work every day. Some of these guys don't slow down. They're driving through people's yards and everything else and just taking away that feel of everything looks nice, you know, just taking away the residential feeling of the area. And it's like, so now we're going to have 70 people doing that. Granted, not everybody drives, you know, inconsiderately, but some of us do. And we want our neighborhood to stay that way to where it's like, hey, I can wave at my neighbors and, you know, they wave back and, you know, we don't have to walk in fear of being run over from, you know, just all the various traffic that's going through there. You know, it's not what we're looking forward to. Thank you for your time. Thank you. That's the last request to speak form that I have. I will close out the public comment portion and return to the board for deliberations and a decision. Commissioner Hetherington. I had an opportunity to hear all of you and had some really good arguments. I empathize with the residents that live in the neighborhood. I also thought that the argument that the applicant made that the land use was there since 1982, the comp plan controls that. I think working waterfront is one of the gems of our community, and we cannot create any more working waterfront. I understand, too, the working waterfront because that's why it was the language of the comp plan was stated that there will be working waterfront near residential neighborhoods. That's the nature of our community. And it's incumbent upon these working waterfronts to be good neighbors. And I think if this property, I know the attorney for the intervener mentioned, we want to have those discussions. We want to have that. There will be – well, this will be a minor site plan. I have full confidence that our staff will vet anything should anything come forward. I simply am making a decision on a rezoning today. But I have full confidence that our staff will make sure that if any – at any time a site plan is submitted, that we follow all the rules, regulations, buffers, and that we make sure that this landowner is a good neighbor. So, again, this is one of the more difficult decisions because you hear both sides. But it was compelling to me that the land use has been there since 1982. It's working commercial waterfront. I believe our comp plan does control, and I feel very strongly about the no net loss policy. And I think that this particular landowner will have opportunities to have that dialogue in the future and be good neighbors. So, with that, I will move staff's recommendation of approval. Mr. Capps. You know, the zoning that was in place before the comp plan, correct, is – it's like a really old zoning. And then the comp plan came into play in 1982 and gave it a land use of commercial – commercial waterfront land use designation. So, the comp plan anticipated commercial uses. It appears to me that the piece of land is so thin and small that they really can't do hardly anything with it if we leave it the way it is. And I also heard that the number of workers currently is about 60, and perhaps that would increase one day to 70, so it doesn't seem to me like they're adding many human beings to the site. You know, and since the comp plan anticipated these commercial uses, it's a tough one, but I feel like we ought to go with it, because that's what the comp plan envisioned. So, I will second. I'm not going to support the motion. I live in Rocky Point. I purchased my first home several houses away from David Lau's Boat Yard, and David Lau's Boat Yard was an isolated boat yard in Rocky Point, nestled among nothing but residential uses. And he was a good neighbor, and he sold to Hinkley, and boy, you wouldn't want to have a Hinkley Boat Yard in your neighbor – in your neighborhood. And Hinkley sold to Teleria, and we were told that there could never be big buildings put on that property. And now there are two 150-foot buildings on that property, and it's no longer the same boat yard that it was when David Lau was the owner. So, I understand the importance of compatibility in the neighborhood, so I'm not going to support the motion. Commissioner Vargas. You know, as a Florida native, I appreciate Waterfront Boater also. But sometimes we have to look carefully and say, does this really fit in this area? And we've heard a lot of comment today from folks who take pride in their neighborhood and want to have a safe area. They're growing families also. So, I cannot support this request either for the reasons I've mentioned to you, and as Chairwoman Hurd has spoken about too. We see too much of this happening in our Florida communities, and it's not all about the dollar. It's about how we're growing the community and making it stronger. We heard that this morning also. So, I would make a motion to oppose this request for rezoning. To deny? Yes. To deny the request. Mr. Campy. Yay me. I've been up here a long time. He said you're killing me. You're killing me. I've been up here a long time. This is probably the worst vote I'd have to take, because I completely understand what the residents are saying. I read all your emails. I even researched who Edward Martin was, because I thought it was my friend's older brother. Some of the people involved in the project are friends of mine. I trust them. I don't know the manufacturer that well, but I trust the people involved. And I absolutely hate being the swing vote. I'd like to leave now, because I watched the LPA meeting, and then my wife and I drove down all the streets. And, you know, I see the points. I thought the intervener attorney was actually real sharp. I don't know you. I like that you live in Palm City, but I don't know you. This is one of those situations where a reasonable group of people could get together and perhaps work something out, which I liked. That's what you said, you know. I did have an opportunity to speak to Mr. Waters, and I said the same thing that everybody says. Commissioner Hurd just said, let's say we trust this guy. He's a superstar. He's a great guy. It's a great company. But we don't know what will be in the future. And I also always try to use the fact that who's there first and who's impacted by this. And all of those things are difficult. So then I try to rely on staff and see, you know, where does staff say? And staff is in this particular case saying, yeah, we agree that it should be done. It's not mandatory, but it's as close to mandatory as possible, which stinks because mandatory is helpful. I don't know that if we agree that, one, we don't know what will eventually become of the property. But if I was actually going to tell you and speak from my heart, I would say I have to agree with the residents. Unless there was an opportunity for us to work something out that could give me the comfort to know that what you were asking to do here could somehow be formulated into such a way that I wouldn't have to necessarily, you know, chop the baby in half. No disrespect. I just, I literally, for all my years, I have no idea what I'm supposed to do here. I see your point, and I could see that it's a skinny piece of property, and it's not much you could do there. I don't understand why, if you had the two alternatives for waterfront commercial versus water, what was the other one, W-R? Resort. Resort. Resort. The only upside, you know, the only change in all of those numbers was 30 feet versus 40 feet. Am I wrong? And, oh, no, there was the intensive uses and whatever. So when I looked, can you put that chart back up that showed that one with the red and the yellow? Oh, that was something else, right? Stacy gets to leave. Maybe she's the smartest person in the room. You can go to your presentation. Yeah. It was in the agenda. Yeah. Let Donna do it. Yep. Thank you, Donna. There you go. Skip down about four pages. A couple more. There you go. That one. No, the other one. That one. Okay. So marine research, neighborhood-assisted residences, post offices, wholesale trade and services, you're basically doing that on most of the property already. Extensive impact industries, limited impact industries. I mean, based on what you were telling us and what you presented in your presentation, you know, what's the goal here? Like, what's the ultimate goal? Can your vision of what you're looking to do with the company in the future, can it be accommodated in a WRC? Are those things that you're asking that would push you into the WGC, those are the things that would be most adverse to the neighbors that live there? The streets are tiny. What are you looking to do? Because I could either help you or I could finish it right now. So I'm trying as hard as I can to give my friends an opportunity here. But what's the goal? Mr. Waters, do you have anything to share? I think you've already pointed out the most notable one is the wholesale trades and services, which potentially could be something on there that's permitted in GWGC but not WRC. And again, we believe it's compatible with the property to the south. But that, I think, is the one that is allowed in one and not allowed the other. Ms. Elder, we don't have the ability, once we just say yes or no to one of these categories, to eliminate any of them, correct? No, you cannot. If you pick the category, they get everything in there. You can't put contingencies. Unless it's a PUD. Is that ever a consideration? I'm sorry, say that again? To work with the neighbors and create a PUD that could, something that could, everyone could benefit from this because it's like a win or a lose. Someone's going to win and someone's going to lose. It's not because we're not looking to... to do a site plan or improve the property at all. Certainly, I think, if we ever want to develop this site, we will be here with a PUD. But it won't come to us. A PUD would. Oh, a PUD. A PUD would. And again, because this property is so narrow, I don't think anyone's ever going to build a structure that's 15 feet wide. So the odds are to build anything on this site, we're going to need setback variances. And the only way we can do that is by a PUD. So I think... So why wouldn't you come forward and ask for that now? Because we're not looking to develop the site. We don't want to. All we're looking to do is use that peninsula at the end, but the only way we can do that is if we do this, do what your comp plan tells us to do, and rezone the property to something that's compatible with the land use. But you're looking for the most aggressive of the compatible of the land uses. It could have been WRC. Yes, but I think it could be WRC, but that's a very intense residential or residential type use where you can have a hotel, you can have apartments, you can have a very intense use that I think is less compatible than what these commercial uses are. And again, we appreciate the neighbors. We appreciate the struggles. They're here. They want to be good neighbors. They're going to work with them through the property. But this is just step one. This is what your comprehensive plan says we have to do. Again, you've cut these policies in your comprehensive plan that says we have to rezone if we want to use the property for commercial, and we can't lose the waterfront commercial because of your no-net policy. So we think your comprehensive plan says that this has to be done in order to use the property consistent with the land use. We certainly appreciate the residents. We've heard their concerns. How are you addressing them? Well, we've heard them, and Mr. Compton is here. I think a lot of them are speeding, so you can certainly talk to the employees. This isn't going to intensify the use of the property or the development of the property. This simply provides it an opportunity to be compatible with the land use designation. We hear we need to be good neighbors. Today, tomorrow, and always, we need to be good neighbors. That's not your job to make sure we're good neighbors. That's our job to make sure that public comment, your people aren't help here complaining about what bad neighbors we are. That's on us, but that's outside of what's in front of you. This is a rezoning. It's not supposed to look at future uses or future development. It's supposed to look at, is this zoning district compatible with the land use? If not, how do we make it compatible? Your comprehensive plan gives you guidance. I appreciate it's a hard decision. Yeah, but here's the thing. Yes, we're supposed to be doing the rezoning, but once we give you a rezoning, then the door is open. And again, that's why I stress the uniqueness of this piece of property, that the door is not open to redevelop it any way we want. We've got, and I've showed you on that one aerial, we've got a width of about 65 feet. 50 of that feet is going to be taken up by your setbacks. And again, this isn't showing your shoreline protection zone, but so we've got 15 feet of development opportunity on this site. That's not, nobody is going to invest a lot of money to develop a 15-foot wide building. So, I appreciate that. Let me ask my staff. You heard what he just said? Yes, I did. And there is validity to that because even a PUD does not allow the applicant to vary from the comp plan regulations, and the SPZ, the 25-foot setback, would apply no matter what. Now, there would be some existing encroachments into the SPZ that could be utilized, but it would be very difficult to do any sizable development on the property, obviously. What kind of fail-safes and safeguards do we have in place that I can, that you can offer our residents here, that they can use it to have like a small expansion of the business without disrupting in any major way the people that already live here? I don't get this. Well, I think that the fact that the property surrounding it is owned by the applicant for the most part and the fact that this is not a Hinkley-sized project by any means. So, the land area is the restriction. So, they were able to blanket the other parcel that they developed because of all the existing uses that went back before the comp plan. So, they were able to utilize that space better than they would be on this parcel. I have no idea what to do. Legal says it's acceptable. Growth management says it's acceptable on TV. Ms. Elder, can we have a postponement of this? So, if the applicant hasn't asked for a continuance, but the board can make a motion to continue? I just feel like one of them, and I appreciate that, Commissioner Vargas, I feel like this is one of the, I've sat through hundreds, if not thousands, of agenda items. I see the point. I see your point. This is, I said this morning, I don't like gray decisions. I like black and white decisions. I like I'm definitely a yes or I'm definitely a no. This is a weird, gray decision. I get that this is narrow, little skinny piece of property, that there can't be much to happen there. I get the working waterfront thing. I get trying to support the marine industry. But I also understand it's a narrow, I drove Salerno all the way to the end. I went all the way down every little side street there. It's not a lot here. I just wish that either the applicant would have worked a little closer with the affected neighbors so that there could have been a little more of a, hey, we understand, and we could work. We don't really have any fail safes in place necessarily other than I wish they would have come forward with the PUD, that we could have had a little more negotiating skills. Short of that, I mean, hearing from my staff that I try to rely on as much as possible, I would probably have to agree to do it, hoping that the system and our multiple departments would create some kind of a safety net for the folks that live here. Then I will agree with the motion. There's a motion and a second to approve the zoning change. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Opposed? That motion passes 3-2 with Commissioners Vargas and Hurd dissenting. Commissioners, I thought that we had adopted the consent agenda, but we have not. So is there a motion to approve the consent agenda? I'll move a motion to approve. There's a motion and a second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? That motion passes unanimously. Let's see if we can work our way. Please make your way. Let's move through this agenda so that we're still, we're not here on November 11th. We'll now consider public hearing quasi-judicial number 3, which is a request for a revised major final site plan approval for Mavis, Kanner, Highway. Quasi-judicial, any exparte disclosures? Commissioner Vargas. If I have any, that report's been filed. Commissioner Kapps. If I have any, they have been filed. I don't have any, they've been filed. Commissioner Campy. I don't have any, they've been filed. And Commissioner Hetherington. I don't have any, and that's been filed. Mr. Elam, have you provided all of your relevant materials to the clerk? Anyone who's going to be providing sworn testimony, please stand, raise your right hand, and be sworn in. Do you swear or affirm the evidence you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So I'll help you God. Thank you. Please proceed, Mr. Elam. Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioners, with the record, Brian Elam, Principal Planner with the Growth Management Department. Excuse me. Before I begin, I would like to set the record straight. It was brought to my attention from a couple of sources. There was an error in the executive summary for this agenda stating this is an 80-bay Mavis Tires and Brake store. That is an error. There are eight bays in this proposed development, not 80. I thought that was huge. I was disappointed in myself, so. Buckies. Buckies. This is a request by Bowler Engineering, FL LLC, on behalf of R&L Investments, BII LLC, for approval of a revised major final site plan to construct an approximate 7,152-square-foot, eight-bay Mavis Tires and Brake store and associated infrastructure on an approximate 1.28-acre property. Included with this application is a request for a certificate of public facilities reservation. Subject site is located west of South Canter Highway, approximately 0.14 miles north of Southwest Salerno Road at 6410 South Canter Highway in Stewart. The current zoning on the property is B-1 Business District, Category Z Zoning District, consistent with the existing commercial general feature land use. The applicant is seeking approval for a revised final site plan with the current B-1 Zoning District. The proposed used mechanical garages is a permitted use in this zoning district. Minimum open space, maximum building coverage, and maximum building height requirements are being met by this proposal as shown on the site plan and on the table on this slide. Here's an image of sheet one of the revised final site plan. Site development includes the Mavis Tire and Brake store. The eight roll-up service bay doors are facing south towards the private driveway of the Canter Crossing Shopping Plaza, which is the location of the primary access of this property. Clear. It's down here. Pedestrian access is provided to the site through a sidewalk connection to South Canter Highway sidewalk. Bike racks have also been provided at the end of the sidewalk here for pedestrians and people traveling on bikes. Cross access through the development to the northern commercial parcels is being provided along the western property line and will connect to the existing access provided from the north. You have cross access from the private drive through this property up to the waters car wash and another parcel, commercial parcel up there. Existing access to the property from South Canter Highway is being closed right here. And the sidewalk will be installed after removal of the existing road apron. Cross access to the existing mobile gas station is made available in the site plan. The following is an excerpt of the approved elevation drawings. The top elevation is the south elevation you would see traveling northbound on Canter Highway. The left side of the north elevation here is primarily what you would see if you were traveling southbound on Canter Highway. The east elevation fronts Canter Highway. The building uses the typical brand colors from Mavis with additional architectural features provided to meet the Martin County commercial design standards such as stone columns, changes in parapet height, and the cornice treatment along the top of the primary facade. Screening has been provided for the rooftop air conditioning unit up here per our code. And the approved alternative compliance is noted on the elevation drawings. This is sheet one of the landscape plan. There are some off-site trees at the entrance that are planned to be protected. The south property line is planted with south Florida live oaks. There are four crepe myrtle trees and cocoa plum shrubs on the eastern property line abutting Canter Highway and along the northern portion of the property. In this section up here, we have oak trees, daehoon holly trees, and the northernmost portion of the property surrounding the dry retention is planted with oaks, bald cypress, and slash pines. This application was heard before the local planning agency on November 5th. The LPA supported staff's recommendation of approval with a vote of 4-0. And development review staff have found the R&L Investments LLC revised major funnel site plan application to comply with all applicable regulations in the comprehensive growth management plan, as detailed in the staff report. And staff recommends approval of this request. We move that the board receive and file the agenda item and its attachments, including the staff report as Exhibit 1, and move that the board adopt the resolution approving the revised final site plan for Mavis-Canter Highway Project. That concludes my presentation. Questions for Mr. Elyon? I don't see any applicant. Is there an applicant? Would you like to make a presentation? I just want to say thank you. You guys have had a heck of a day. I can answer any questions if you'd like. Questions for the applicant? Madam Chair, if I may, if the applicant could just confirm the affidavit of notice was provided. It is. I have it. Sorry. And identify yourself for the record? I'm Stacey Bridenbach from Boulder Engineering. Okay. Would anyone from the public like to address us on this matter? I don't see any. Back to the board. I'll make a motion for staff's recommendation of approval. Second. There's a motion and a second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? That motion passes unanimously. Mr. Donaldson, can we move any of this stuff onto the November 17th meeting? So there's only two items. Let's see that we can move the population technical bulletin, number five. Is that Department five? Department five, yes, and Department eight. All right. Is there a motion to move Department five and Department eight to November? Let me see what Department eight is, please. It's approval of the lease agreement with the Treasure Coast Ruling Club. It's sitting here all day. It'll take a minute. Oh, but okay. So you want to move, you want to just move Department five? Just Department five. Well, the staff ones I get, they work for us. But the folks that have sat here all day long, I think, if you don't mind. Is there a motion to move Department five to November 17th? So moved. Second. There's a motion and a second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? That motion passes unanimously. We'll now take up Department quasi-judicial number one. So any exporte disclosures? Commissioner Vargas? I have none. The report's been filed. And Commissioner Kapps? If I have any, they have been filed. If I have any, they've been filed. Commissioner Campy? If I have any, they've been filed. And Commissioner Hetherington? If any, they've been filed. And Mr. Elam, have you provided a copy of all of your relevant materials to the clerk? I've turned in a copy of the agenda item, and my work history is Exhibit 1. Anyone who's going to be providing sworn testimony, please stand up, raise your right hands, and be sworn in. Do you swear or affirm the evidence you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I hope you got it. Please proceed, Mr. Elam. Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioners, this is a request by Lucido and Associates. On behalf of Atlantic Fields Club, LLC, for final site plan approval for Phase 2D, tracked M1 within the Discovery PUD, this final site plan includes a 16,000-square-foot operations building, 4,032-square-foot cart barn, and associated infrastructure to include gated access to Southeast Atlantic Preserve Drive. Included with this application is a request for a certificate of public facilities reservation. Discovery PUD Phase 2D is located approximately 1.6 miles east of Interstate 95 on the west side of Southeast Atlantic Preserve Drive, approximately 0.6 miles north of Southeast Bridge Road. Current zoning on the property is PUD by way of the Discovery Plan Unit Development Zoning Agreement approved in September of 2022. The future land use is rural lifestyle. This is an excerpt of the phasing plan approved with the Third Amendment that I'm using here just to provide a visual of the location of Phase 2D on the site plan. Bridge Road is to the south on the right side of this image, which shows the southern property line of the Discovery Project. Here's the Phase 2D final site plan located on tract M1 of the recorded Discovery Platte. This tract is approximately 5.2 acres. Development includes what I said previously, a 16,000-square-foot operations center and cart barn. A review of this application by the local planning agency is not required. And development review staff have found the Atlantic Fields Club LLC application to comply with all applicable regulations of the comp plan, as detailed in the staff report, and staff recommends approval of this application. We move that the board receive and file the agenda item and its attachments, including the staff report as Exhibit 1, and move that the board adopt the resolution approving the Phase 2D final site plan for the Discovery PUD project. That concludes my presentation. Questions for Mr. Elam. Applicant. Good evening, Chair Herd, Commissioners. For the record, Bob Rains. I'm a land use attorney with the Gunster Law Firm here this evening on behalf of the applicant. I'm pleased to say that we have received and reviewed the staff report, and we agree with the staff recommendation in that report. I know it's been a long day. We're going to try to be quick, Chair Herd, but if I could just ask Mr. Elam a couple of quick questions, and then Mr. Crady, and I'll get out of your way here. So, Mr. Elam, you prepared the staff report, is that correct? That's correct. And you prepared Section F, which is the Determination of Compliance with the Comprehensive Growth Management Plan requirements? Yes. And in that report, it states that the findings of compliance staff has reviewed this application and finds that it complies with the LDRs. As detailed within this report, staff recommends approval of the development application as consistent with the guidelines and standards of the applicable comprehensive plan, goals, objectives, and policies as implemented in the LDRs. Is that correct? That's correct. And you still agree with that? I agree with that, yes. And also, Sir, Section G, Determination of Compliance with the Land Use Site Design Standards, Zoning, and Procedural Requirements. Did you also prepare that section? Yes, I did. And the finding of compliance there says, and I'm reading, staff has reviewed this application and finds that it complies with the LDRs, as detailed with this report. Staff recommends approval of this development application as consistent with the guidelines and standards of the applicable comprehensive plan, goals, objectives, and policies as implemented in the LDRs. Do you agree with that, also? Yes. Yes, I do. And my last question, Sir, is this also is the site plan, final site plan proposed today, consistent with the PUD and the master site plan in the PUD? Yes, it is. Thank you, Sir. I'd like to just ask Mr. Crady to come up, and I'll ask him a few questions, and we'll move along. Mr. Crady, would you state your name for the record? Sure. Morris Crady, senior partner with the CEDO and Associates. I have. And can you just give us a very quick summary of your application work? Yes. I've been an expert planner now for over 35 years with the American Institute of Certified Planners, working with the CEDO and Associates for almost 40 years, and also worked with the county for about 10 years before becoming a private planner. And are you familiar with the site plan that was prepared? Yes. Yes. I coordinated the site plan application process and reviewed the site plan and the landscape plans for compliance with the comprehensive plan policies, also the land development regulations, and the PUD master plan and conditions of approval. And in your professional opinion, is the site plan that's being proposed today, is it consistent with the comprehensive plan for Martin County and the land development regulations? Yes. And is it also, sir, consistent with the PUD and the master site plan for this project? Yes, it is. Okay. Thank you. That's it for us, Commissioner. Thank you very much. We will be glad to answer. Questions for the applicant. Any questions? Barring any public comment. Would anyone from the public like to address us? I don't see any returning to the board. Mr. Campion. Thank you. This is another example of one of the premier projects that's being built in Martin County. Everything that they have done, I think most of us have had an opportunity to see the place. It's being handled, developed, and constructed at a super high level. They were very generous in their donations so that we'd have access, southern access, to the Atlantic Ridge Preserve. I think they're going to be a, they're already an excellent member of our community. I'm happy to make a motion to accept staff's recommendation. I'm happy to second it. And thank you for doing what you originally committed to. And you actually are very proud of the project that you've built. Mr. Capps. I will support it. I would like to mention something, which I've mentioned before, with regard to discovery. There's a road on the eastern, the borders of the eastern side of the property that goes north. And that's a public road. It doesn't look real public, but I just want everybody to know you're free to drive up that road. That is meant for the public to eventually be the southern access to the Atlantic Ridge. It's a beautiful little drive. There's a, there's like a security building there with a guy in it. And I rode in there one time in my old El Camino and on a Sunday, and I thought, well, maybe he'll turn me around. But he didn't. He said, you're free to go in. Check it out. So feel free to do that. And you can even, you know, explore in the woods there if you want. The accommodations are not, are quite primitive right now. There are no bathrooms or anything, but, and no trails. But one day, maybe we'll have all that. But you're free to take a ride if you want to. Thank you. There's a motion and a second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? That motion passes unanimously. Thank you. We'll now take up Department 1, which is Office of Management and Budget Items, which require board approval. Ms. Murley. Good afternoon, Commissioner. Stephanie Murley here to present four items on OMB. Our first item is a permission to accept a grant agreement from the Florida Inland Navigation District for the Boy Scout Island Stabilization Phase 1 project. Our Public Works Department is requesting $100,000 for the design and permitting of the Boy Scout Island Stabilization Project. This will facilitate the stabilization through design and permitting of a hybrid living shoreline, which will preserve recreational and educational use and preserve and enhance wildlife habitat within the Indian River Lagoon. There is a $100,000 match, which is currently budgeted within the Shoreline Management FY27 CIP. The second item is a permission to accept Amendment No. 1 to the State of Florida Department of Environmental Protection, or FDEP, grant agreement for the Old Palm City Subject to Sewer Project. This amendment is extending the agreement due to changes in the project's scope of work, budget reallocation, and modifications. What it's essentially doing is eliminating the need for a 20-year assessment and related state revolving fund costs and reduces the county's grant match of approximately $10 million to $4 million and is expected to accelerate the completion of the project by two years. Ms. Murley, before we move on, so reducing the total grant commitment from $10 million to $4 million, does that mean that the DEP grant is going from $10 million to $4 million? I have Leo Rappetti here on the specifics. Let it not be. Leo. Good afternoon. Leo Rappetti with Martin County Utilities. Yes, to answer your question, the grant funding is being reduced from $10 million to $4 million. Why? We – the grant was originally set to expire at the end of 2026. Earlier this year, back in April, we reached out to the grant agency, DEP, and requested an extension of the timeline. They wanted to spend the money. They rejected our request to extend the grant deadline beyond the end of this year. We went back with them – back to them with an alternative program to create a different delivery of septic to sewer using grinders, which would be more cost-effective for this area, and they agreed. And there are several things that this grant modification does. It does, as Stephanie said, reduces the amount. It extends our deadline by two years. It also allows for something new that DEP hasn't done before, and that's a match for the onsite connection costs. And that's important because we're using the grant money to buy down the cost to each of the residents, so that reduces their cost to connect. It also says the amendment eliminates the need for a 20-year assessment. It doesn't. It – so there is no assessment associated with this. The vacuum sewer project, because of the scope of the work in the right-of-way, the Old Palm City project was looking at a $34 million budget for doing vacuum sewer for Old Palm City. The total budget for grinders in Old Palm City would be $14 million. So we're saving $20 million on the program. More importantly, in order to make the $12,000 per home target for grinder connections, we would have to contribute – the county would have to contribute $9 million. And by going to vacuum, it reduces the county contributions from $9 million down to $3.5 million, so a savings for the county. And part of that right now in our budget, the $9 million we would have needed to do vacuum sewer, we don't have $4.5 million in that funding. So we have to try to find another $4.5 million to do vacuum to get to that $9 million match. But the item says that this eliminates the need for a 20-year assessment. No, it doesn't. They're still going to be assessed for around $12,000 per unit. Commissioner, it comes under the Connect to Protect, and we've been doing that through the payment of – through the utilities program. And so the grinder program allows for – if it's – when available to do – we can do special assessments on them, but it also allows, if we have the funding through our other partners, for them to finance it and pay for it over on their utility bill. So if that happens, then you don't need to do the non-advalorem assessment on your tax bill. It just becomes part of your utility bill. And so when that – when that happens, he's correct. It is not a special assessment. If we had so many coming on at once that we ran out of the partnership that provided the $8,000 to $10,000 loan that you pay on your – on your bill, then we would need to still do the special assessment. So I would say you're – both are correct. And Leo's anticipating to try to do these all without a special assessment. And if he's able to do that, then it – you still are assessed, but it comes on your utility bill. If you're – if we ran out of – out of the – the loan program, which is by a separate partner, then we would have to do a special assessment, and you are correct. And the other – the other important thing is that with a $12,000 cap for a vacuum sewer project, it's going to be much higher for the residents than our current rates. And what we're anticipating for the Old Palm City area is $7,000. So we're taking the cost to the residents from $12,000 over 20 years down to $7,000. We're saving grant funding. We're saving county funding. And we're saving money for the residents. So it's – we believe the fiscally responsible thing to do for the residents in Old Palm City. Mr. Campy. Can you speak to us about the timing then? So we have broken this up in phases so we can get going on it instead of trying to do one big, giant project. The first phase, about 300 homes, is 100% designed. We've got a request for additional information from DEP for the permitting. We expect that to be in the next week or two. Our bid documents are done. We expect that to go on the street, hopefully within the next week. Beyond that, the following three phases are already under design. We expect the next phase two and three we're going to bring together for about 500 homes. The plan is going to be done in January because of the scope of the construction contract. The board would see that contract for approval as it would with the first phase. We expect the first phase to be before the board for approval January, February. And then by May for the next phases, our plan is to have a backbone infrastructure for all 1,000-plus residents in Old Palm City complete by the end of 2027 and available for connection. Thank you. So you said the same thing you said to me a couple months ago, which I appreciate. You didn't stretch it out. I was telling people that this week. They were asking. I said, oh, no. It's Leo Ruppetti, R-E-P. Very excited about this. Mr. Kapps. Well done, Leo. Thank you. So when the decision was made to go from, is it vacuumed to grinder? That decision wasn't made. It was made by the utility department, not by us. Oh, okay. I was part of it. But whenever it got made by them. As I understand it, the plan previously was to resurface the roads as well as to do the septic to sewer at the same time. But that's not the case now, right? So the grinder program generally operates through directional drilling, and to date, the amount of asphalt that was repaved in our grinder program for about 3,600 homes so far would not be able to pave my office. So it's very unobtrusive. Public Works has this program to do the resurfacing of all the roads in Old Palm City. In addition to accelerating the septic to sewer project in Old Palm City by 18 to 24 months, we'll likely be able to accelerate the resurfacing of the roads as well. Good. Good. I would just like to mention one other thing. We may as well start getting used to some reality here. If you look at these two items, the first one is on page 438, and down at the bottom of the sheet, it says cost to Martin County $100,000. And then if you look at page 440, at the top of the page that has to do with the second item, it says cost to Martin County $4,000,000. Well, with Amendment 3 on the horizon, this is where it's going to get really hard to really do much around here to improve our infrastructure because the state and all of our funding partners, whether it's state or federal, they generally are looking for a sizable local donation or contribution before they'll give the rest of the money. And this is where it's going to get really hard to improve infrastructure. So it's a reality check. I was thinking perhaps we could make an effort to petition the state, and maybe the local governments around the state will do this for, you know, trying to get at least the state of Florida to quit requiring us to contribute so much locally toward projects because there's not going to be much money to work with. And this grant is a 50-50 match with a 50% local match and 50% grant. Right. But where will we find the money going forward? You know, next year we're cutting $42 million, the projection would be, unless we do something else. And then, you know, in the next year it's $75 million if we solve our problems with just cuts. So there will be other options perhaps. But anyway, something to start thinking about. You know, when Ms. Murley presents to us, continue to look at what the local government has to throw in to do these things. And that's where it's going to get tough. Any more questions for Leo? All right. Thanks, Leo. Item number three is our 2027 fiscal policy update. So each year we bring to you our fiscal policies. We're required to update them annually. There was no major changes to the fiscal policy this year other than updates to make terminology current with and align with recently adopted purchasing manual that was brought to the board in September. And as well as accounting guidelines as requested by the clerk for generally accepted accounting principles. There was no changes made to exist in minimum or maximum requirements, dollar amounts, or any percentage thresholds as part of this fiscal policy update. And item number four is adoption of the Lamar Howard Lighting and Sensory Garden Capital Improvement Plan sheets. Two capital improvement projects have been identified for Lamar Howard Park, and there is a request to adopt the CIPs for these projects. The Lamar Howard Park Lighting Project has an estimated cost of $400,000, which includes installing LED athletic field lighting. And as well as the Lamar Howard Sensory Garden Project will be developed on a county-owned property adjacent to Lamar Howard Park. The estimated construction cost is $552,000, and it will include accessible pathways, interactive features, native landscaping, seating, parking, and drainage improvements. And both of these projects are being requested to be used with District MS2U funding as requested by Commissioner Hetherington. And OMB is requesting the adoption of both of these sheets into the 2027 Capital Improvement Plan. Is that the last one? That's it. I will make a motion happily to support all of the entirety of the items. Second. Oh. There's a motion and a second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? That motion passes unanimously. Thank you. Thank you. We'll take up Department 2, contracts that meet the threshold for board approval of $1 million or greater. Ms. Brotherton. Good evening, Commissioners. This is Christy Brotherton, your Chief Procurement Officer, and I just have one item for your consideration, which is a continuing services agreement for parks, janitorial services. This provides for janitorial services for various county-owned park restroom facilities, community centers, special facilities, including campgrounds, water parks, golf courses, and other recreational facilities throughout Martin County. This contract has a maximum not-to-exceed value of $2 million and a maximum not-to-exceed term of five years. And staff is recommending that the board award the contract to the lowest responsive and responsible bidder, which is Green Facility Incorporated, and move that the board authorize the county administrator or designee to execute all documents related to this request. And that concludes this item. Move staff's recommendation of approval. Second. There's a motion and a second to all those in favor. Aye. Opposed. That motion passes unanimously. Thank you. We're going to skip to Department 8, which is a request for approval of an amended and restated public purpose lease agreement with the Treasure Coast Rowing Club in Palm City. I saw Ms. Segura outside. Or Mandy. Here she is. Ms. Segura, you're up. We're doing number 8 out of order so that I could send my friend home. She's been here since 9 a.m. Okay. Hi. Carla Segura, Real Property Manager. This request is for the board's consideration and approval of amended and restated lease agreement with the Treasure Coast Rowing Club. The amended agreement will add approximately 6,515 square feet to their existing lease and establish a new term of 20 years, which will run from October 1st through October 1st, 2026 through October 1st, 2046 with one year renewal option. And we forgot to put the, we inadvertently forgot the resolution in this, so we'll need a resolution approved also. Staff recommends approval of the amended and restated public purpose lease agreement with the Treasure Coast Rowing Club and a new resolution to be adopted accepting the terms and conditions of the lease. And authorize the board, and authorize the board, I mean, request that the board authorize the chair to execute all documents necessary to complete this transaction. If there's any questions. So we would ask you to adopt, approve a resolution subject to approval by the county attorney. He's already. Questions for staff. Commissioner Campy. Yes, thank you. When Ms. Segura says the 6,500 square, 6,500 square feet, it's not buildings, it's land. Oh, yeah. We, in Charlie Layton Park, we had a very underutilized soccer field. The rowing club, which runs as a volunteer organization, for the most part, has trained thousands of young students in rowing, granting them opportunities for scholarships. They also train hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands, of adults and seniors that can utilize. They use all of the high schools. It's not specifically a Palm City thing. We, when we were reconfiguring the park, they had long been looking for additional space, and Parks and Rec was very helpful, and we worked with their team to negotiate giving them a little more of the space. I drove by the other day. They've already made some significant improvements. They've painted the facility, they're updating, they moved their storage racks around to make it a lot more effective, and I think it's a great partnership. It's been around for a long, long time, and I'm happy that we can continue to do it. I'd make a motion to accept staff's recommendation, including a resolution that would be approved upon approval by our legal department. So, I got it. There is a request to speak form from Yvette Huerta. Hello, my name is Yvette Huerta, and I'm the vice president of Treasure Coast Rowing Club, and I just wanted to say that I really, we really do appreciate the partnership that the county has done with us for the past 25 years in our original lease, all the work that's been done by Edward Campy and other commissioners who have helped in public. It's made a huge difference in the lives of many young people and giving them a new direction, and also we look forward to another 20 years with hopeful renewal of us to be able to continue to use this facility to be able to introduce people to the water, to promote the waterways, and good stewardship for the beautiful lands and the waterways that we have here in Stewart. So, thank you so much for consideration. We love working with you guys, and we will not disappoint you. Thank you. Commissioners, on November 3rd, everything changed for us, including our ability to give free leases to entities that we admire and enjoy in our communities. This is one of those leases. It's $10 a year. This is for another. This lease doesn't expire until August 26th of 2032. It's a long time. So, I don't know why on earth we're considering renewing, giving another 20 years now. In another three years, we are going to be desperate for money, and we're going to look back at these sweetheart leases, and we're going to say, what were we thinking? So, I am not going to be supporting this. I think that we have a lot of time. We have six years to contemplate before the end of this lease in order to create a contract that's equitable for the rowing club and for Martin County, and I think it's premature to be extending this contract now. So, I will not support the motion. Commissioner Hetherington. I will be supporting the rowing club and this lease, and I had an opportunity to tour it on a number of occasions and look at the investment that the rowing club has actually put in the property and the lives of all the youth that it's changed. So, I will be supporting it. Commissioner Rodgers. I'll make a motion to deny. We do have time to talk with your organization, as we will with other organizations also. What Chairwoman Hurd said is absolutely correct. This giving away of taxpayer assets will be coming to an end. These are the assets. Proper rental lease amounts will be starting to be paid. Somebody started this tradition. It may be somebody who's been on this board a long time, and it's fine to be friends with folks but not give away what isn't yours. So, I will make a motion to deny. Madam Chair, we have a motion and a second. I call the question. There's a motion and a second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Opposed. That motion passes 3-2 with Commissioner Vargas and Hurd dissenting. Back to apartment 3. Is that where we are? Which is a request to approve the 2026 Witham Field Strategic Business Plan. Good evening, Commissioners. Good evening, Madam Chair. Andrew McVean, Airport Director. With me, I have Mr. Douglas DiCarlo, Project Manager, Senior Airport Planner from Environmental Science Associates. This item before you today, Commissioners, is a request to approve the 2026 Witham Field Strategic Business Plan. The Strategic Business Plan, in short, provides a framework for guiding the airport's near- and intermediate-term decisions while supporting long-term vision established through the adopted 2023 Airport Master Plan. So, think of this as an additional chapter to the Airport Master Plan. Witham Field enters the strategic planning period from a position of strength and operates without ad valorem taxes to support and maintain a diversified revenue base that supports its operations. Again, this plan was established using the published Florida Department of Transportation Aviation Business Planning Guidebook. The Florida Department of Transportation also funded a significant portion of the business planning process. While the Master Plan defines the long-term geometry of the airport, the business plan turns those into actionable business steps. The Strategic Business Plan identifies six goals to guide the county and the airport's decision-making for business purposes. Those six goals are, number one, to maintain the airport's financial sustainability and resilience. As you know, the airport is an enterprise fund. It operates without taxpayer dollars. To strategically accommodate future aviation demand and operational needs. To optimize revenue generation, we will be looking at ways that we can optimize the revenue that we currently generate at the airport, either through lease rates, fuel flow rates, leasing properties and so on, facilitating private investment and tenant development, preserving and enhancing the airport as a regional asset. As you know, the airport is the largest economic contributor in the county and amongst the largest economic contributor in the Treasure Coast. And to protect the long-term community compatibility, preserving the airport and moving the airport in a business way in such a way that's compatible with the community. And just to remind you, Commissioners, again, the airport is an enterprise fund. It operates without taxpayer dollars. We are entering the strategic planning position from a period of strength. The entire strategic planning document is attached to the agenda. Staff is looking for board to move approval and adopt the 2026 Witham Field Strategic Business Plan. Any questions, Commissioners? Questions. I'm on page 580, and it's talking about reactivating Stewart's foreign trade zone capabilities. I don't have any interest in that. And I'm on page 614, and it's about EMAS replacement timeline. And, Commissioners, how old is the EMAS, Mr. McBean, 20 years? It was, I believe, installed in 2011. Okay, so it's, yeah, it probably will need to be replaced within the next five years or so. That's the end of its useful life. And we voted unanimously, I believe, several years ago to, when that time came, replace EMAS. It's expensive, but it's the right thing to do. EMAS is the most protective measure that we can put there. So that was a wise decision that the board made several years ago. So here is a proposal for EMAS replacement on the runway 12 side, east side, southeast side, to instead, if we have to replace the EMAS, to instead gobble up seven or nine holes of golf course to use for our protection. And I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in ever extending the boundary. We've established the boundary of the airport. I was instrumental in it. I have absolutely no interest in expanding the boundary of the airport, particularly not on the golf course. And then there's also on the next page, page 615, there's talk about expanding the airport for non-aeronautical uses on the fairgrounds or on the Martin County School Board Bus Depot. I don't have any interest in either of those either. And can you tell us the purpose of the airport business plan, Mr. McBean? So the purpose of the airport business plan, as you know, Florida Department of Transportation is one of our largest funding partners. The Florida Department of Transportation is more lenient when it comes to funding measures. They are more lenient with funding revenue-generating projects. And they also share funding with every federal project. The Florida Department of Transportation likes to see airports with firm business plan to support their continued funding partnership with the airport. As demonstrated through the business planning document, it's clear that the airport relies heavily on both federal and state funding. So to continue receiving those state fundings from the Florida Department of Transportation, it is imperative that we have a strong business plan to show the Florida Department of Transportation. But the suggestions in here are not mandatory, and this document is not further approved by the FAA? No, Commissioner. And to further address your concerns, the items that you mentioned were outlined in the SWOT analysis. That's a strength, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats analysis. Those are just items for consideration when having business discussions. None of those are mandatory items. None of those are items that we would have to come back. You know, they're just a SWOT analysis matrix, a business matrix of things to consider when making decisions before we come before this Board of County Commissioners. Mr. Capps. So, Commissioner Hurd. If we took out foreign trade zone on page 580, can you – I know you can't make motions, but if you were to make this motion, what's the second item, and what page is it on? It is page 614, and that's EMAS replacement timeline. So what were you saying about the EMAS, that you're in favor of replacing it? Yeah, I'm in favor of replacing the EMAS. And not in favor of taking the Dixie parcel, fairgrounds, or the school bus depot? Correct. I agree with you. Say that one more time. Not in favor of – so this presents an opportunity for the airport to evaluate the potential acquisition of sufficient property beyond the end of runway 30 to remove the runway 30 EMAS bed. And it's talking about using nine holes that were just removed from the golf course and instead expanding there in order to create a safety zone. So it would remove the acquisition of golf – additional golf course property and also remove the Martin County fairgrounds and the school board bus depot for expansion of the airport. Okay. So that was the second thing you were concerned about? Was there another one? That's it? Okay. Are we – is it – we're not having anyone else present, right? No. No, Commissioner, this is it. Do you have big concerns with the matters that Commissioner Hurd has brought up? Commissioner, so as I mentioned before, the SWOT analysis are items for consideration. It is ultimately this body's business plan. If this body chooses not to go into that direction of acquiring golf course land for a standard runway safety area and chooses to fund an EMAS, that is the discretion of this body. I'm not saying that we're going to fund the replacement of the EMAS. I'm saying we look for grant opportunities to fund the replacement of the EMAS. Right. That's how we've paid for it in the past. No, we haven't. FAA gave money when we originally – It was a grant between the airport and the FAA. Yeah. Yeah. Like a ton. All right. So you go back to the FAA. Okay. That's the reason we did not pay for it. FAA paid for it. Yeah. Yeah. So the concept of getting a grant – excuse me, Commissioner Capps, I apologize. The concept of getting a grant from the FAA for EMAS, that's how we did it originally. Yes, Commissioner. And I think if it were to be the fairgrounds, if it was – once the fair moves off and that property becomes viable, if someone that was an airport-related business wanted to be close to the airport, across the street, if you will, it could still be on property that we will figure out what to do with in the future, yet it's not expansion of the airport. Because the headline can never be – I agree with Commissioner Hurd – it can never be, County Commission expanded the airport. Anyone that's got a long enough history realizes that's bad. No one wants to hear that here. You've done a remarkable job. Your predecessors have done a remarkable job of keeping the airport very viable when other community airports are struggling. These particular out-of-parcels, that I would call them, and Commissioner Hurd's concept of the EMAS is right. Is the right strategy going forward? Understood, Commissioner. As I said, this document is for this body. No protest there. Thank you. We're going to take those two items out. Yes. So I will make a motion to approve the Withamfield Strategic Business Plan minus the two items that Commissioner Hurd has identified for us. Is that clear enough? Ms. Elder, is that clear? Is that clear enough? I think that's clear, yes. Okay. There's a motion and a second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? That motion passes unanimously. Now we'll move on to Department 4, which is to request authorization to amend and implement the airport voluntary corrective action plan. Mr. McBean and Ms. Sloan. Again, Commissioners, Andrew McBean, airport director. And with me I have Ms. Sloan Isselhard, attorney with Kaplan-Kirsch. This item is to request authorization to amend and implement the voluntary corrective action plan. In summary, the Federal Aviation Administration, FAA has indicated that qualified aeronautical applicants may experience extended wait time for airport access under the current leasing process. Along with other concerns, along with other concerns, the county is in the process of resolving the FAA's guidance. As a part of a compliance process, the county is amending and resubmitting the voluntary corrective action plan to address concerns and resolve out signing grant compliance issues, including the implementation of a new leasing process for the airport property. And I do have Ms. Isselhard here from Kaplan-Kirsch that I could speak to in greater detail the concerns with compliance and the reason for the direction that we're heading in. Ms. Isselhard. Thanks, Andrew. I just want to make sure you can hear me before I start speaking. Okay. Well, it's great to be here. Thank you for having me. I'm Sloan Isselhard. As Andrew said, I'm a partner with Kaplan-Kirsch. I'm your Special Aviation Counsel. We've been representing the county for years, and I've been working with you all, and in particular with county staff, to resolve specific administrative and actions before the FAA that are currently pending. And the importance of these, I really want to emphasize, has to do with your funding for the airport and your grant funding availability generally. And as we've heard today, your funding is critical right now. And so maintaining your eligibility for FAA grant funds really is my job as your attorney to ensure that you protect. I believe the amendment that we're bringing, you know, that we're going to be bringing forth and that we're asking you to allow us to implement in the immediate future will, is the path forward to keeping that grant funding eligibility. I know I've spoken to you all about this before, and I know it's been a long day, but for the benefit of the public that might be listening or that have hung in there, I'd like to give a little bit of context for that. So I love that we started with discussing veterans because the airport has an important history to the United States Navy, and that really is where this begins, is with a lease to the federal government for the United States Navy to use the airport during World War II. When you got that property back, it was done through a deed that the federal government has taken the position, obligates you to follow very specific requirements in order to maintain your grant funding and, frankly, your control over that property. That property encompasses the airport, or a good chunk of it. As Commissioner Hurd mentioned, we've removed the golf course years ago from that property. There is nothing in this plan that proposes to expand the airport or to change the fundamental purpose that the original Voluntary Corrective Action Plan intended. The properties listed there are the same ones that we discussed making available before. The changes are really limited to the process by which we make those properties available. And specifically, FAA has taken issue with the county's RFP process. It doesn't like the ranking system. It's concerned about the way in which, you know, we've been selecting tenants. We have proposed a new process, which we have vetted with FAA, and they have approved in theory, but we have to continue through this process with the southern region to get it all the way through. And it's essentially a qualification process. We make sure anyone that wants to get a lease on the property is qualified to serve the purpose for which they're proposing the lease. If they're proposing to develop an undeveloped land, we make sure they can finance it because we're not using county general funding for those projects. We're using grant funding. And then any private funding that that developer can offer. We're not having to compete for lease prices. We're going to make sure the lease prices for the land are sufficient to meet federal requirements. But it's going to be a strict qualification process. And then once folks get through that qualification process, there'll be essentially a name draw out of a hat process for who gets to negotiate first. So not who gets a lease. It's not automatic. But who gets the first bite at the apple of negotiating with the county. And those leases will have very particular requirements. To Commissioner Vargas's points earlier, you know, can they develop within a certain time period? You know, we're going to need to make sure they make the correct amount of investment for the length of the lease. So that will be part of the lease conditions. And we'll be including strong subordination language. So if there is ever a question in the future about a tenant not complying or putting your federal grant funding at issue, you will be able to amend that lease in a much more streamlined fashion. We will continue working with the county attorney's office, with staff, to see this process forward. And keep in mind, this is not a lease. We're not bringing forth any tenants right now. But we strongly recommend that you bring this forward and allow us to continue the process with FAA. And then I just want to mention, because it just happened. Let me find it in here. In terms of the pending Part 16, we did attempt to negotiate a settlement with the complainant, which was not successful. Following the failure of negotiations, the complainant did file a motion to lift the abeyance. So basically, we've been on hold to allow the voluntary corrective action process to proceed. We opposed that motion. And we appealed for an extension of the abeyance, because as we've been discussing, we believe this new plan, this amendment, will resolve the county's issues with its regulatory issues on a global scale. And we submitted that motion, I think we submitted last week. And we received just yesterday the FAA's approval of our motion. So the abeyance is still in place, so that we can continue this process. And it is extended to March. Now, I want to mention some language in this order. It said that the Office of Airport Compliance will continue coordinating with the region for periodic updates on the county's process, progress. If at any time the director determines the county is not acting in good faith to timely execute the corrective actions or that the corrective actions are insufficient to warrant further consideration, the director may, upon notice, rescind the abeyance and proceed with adjudication of the complaint and issuance of the director's determination. And that, you know, I think that's really why we're here today, is this motion and your approval of it is exactly what the FAA is looking for as evidence of good faith. And I, you know, I know that you're acting in good faith, but we do need to keep presenting them with evidence of that to keep things on the right track. And I'm happy to take questions, but I just hope that gives a little more context. Questions for Ms. Isselhard. I have some concerns. I have concerns with the lottery. And I have concerns about the lottery because we completely lose control and it becomes randomized. And I don't want to lose that control. We have, we released, we've released a number of RFPs and we have a list of people who responded to those. We could get letters of intent from those people. We could figure out whether or not they have the financial wherewithal and, you know, whatever, whatever the criteria are for evaluating, whether that's a real lessee or not. And we have a list of people who have applied. We have a list of people who have a record of an active record in Martin County. If we open it up, we get all new applicants and so my preference would be that we go back to our list, we get letters of intent, we issue RFPs. Again, I don't think that the FAA objected to our RFPs. They objected to our awarding a lease for aeronautical use to a non-aeronautical user. That was the objection. So we can fix that. Well, I will, I just will add, they did, they did take issue with the RFP process. They did not like the ranking system. They prefer, they, what they wanted us to do was more of a direct negotiation. And my understanding was that deciding who to negotiate with first would be, could be problematic for you all. And so I think the purpose of this is not to open it up to anyone. It is not to allow, and again, this is for qualified applicants only. So it's to provide a fair... Who's a qualified applicant? So I'm glad you asked that. And essentially, we will be asking for letters of interest. A qualified applicant is, provides essentially a proposal, a detailed description of the proposed use, evidence they have financial capacity and experience to perform the use in accordance with the airport minimum standards, the airport layout plan, and all applicable laws and regulations. Examples that they have done similar projects, other places, a detailed operational and business plan, essentially a pro forma, audited financial records, a rough schematic of what the plans are, and you will decide what property they're leasing. So we've already mapped out how to parcel these. This will not be random. People don't get to pick and choose. They do have to show that they have these qualifications. But if they have them, then they get... That's when the lottery would take place. And as I said, if they're not successful in negotiating a lease, they don't get the lease. But they get to participate in the process, and they get to move forward if they can meet these standards. So we are going to advertise for new applicants, and we are going to then create a lottery. Man, that just doesn't seem like the honorable thing for us to do. We have a list of qualified and probably not qualified applicants for leases. Why not work with those? We have, you know, these are people who have a presence on Witham Field now, and the people you're talking about, we're opening it up to who knows. Well, we, if you, and this ultimately, it is up to you all to decide. If what you're telling me is you want to limit initially to the people that you know are interested in certain property, we could do something along those lines. We do have to have a process for deciding who gets to negotiate with you first. If you want to limit it to that list and do the lottery that way. What about the people that are already in the mix and having a lottery with just them? No new people. I don't, I, I'm not so sure that the list that we have is going to result in, let's say, I don't know how many people are on the list. Let's say 10. I'm not at all convinced that all 10 are going to qualify. Maybe, maybe six are going to qualify. I don't know how many are going to qualify. But at least there are people who. From our original group. Yeah. I don't disagree with that. If, if the county's decision is that it wants to limit the opportunity to propose to the known group of folks that have submitted some kind of interest already, that, that's a, you know, that's a justifiable position. I will say when new property becomes available, if that's the position you're going to take, then you'll have to maintain some sort of list as people continually submit interest so that you can then issue new properties to that same group or whoever gets added to it. Right. The other, so if that is the direction that you all give today, that is the direction we can go, I just, there just has to be a fair and open process that you're all comfortable with that we can get started on. I, I, I understand that. I understand that the EPA is requiring that we, that we be fair. But I also think that we need to be fair to our local businesses. Yeah. If that's the direction that you all want to take and go with the known list, it, let them give us proposals and decide who's qualified and then draw the names from that group. Cause that's the question. Once we get the qualifications, I think the question is who do you decide who to negotiate with first? And that's where we came with the lottery wasn't to let it be anyone. It was more just kind of who gets to talk to you first. I'm just, I'm just really nervous about a lottery because I think that that seeds control. Well, that seems, that seems way too random. Well, but remember, this would be the way it would work. It would be for specific property. So for example, if we're doing eight acres on one parcel or two acres on one parcel, folks would submit for that. If they're all, if there's just one that's qualified, that's who you negotiate with. If there's two, maybe we have, you know, that's where you were having a ranking system that the FA didn't like. So what I want to get you out of is the ranking business. If they're both, if they're both qualified, so remember, this is not, somebody's not going to be able to do it. That person's kicked out from the get-go. This is two qualified applicants. They're both interested in the same property. That's the point at which we think you could do, you know, however you want to do it. It could be a public drawing, you know, or however you want to do it. But if you rank it, I think you're going to run into the same problems. You could try to negotiate simultaneously. That's going to require a lot of staff support and I think could get you in another pickle. Well, let's go back to the, so we've got letters of intent and we have their qualifications. Yes. Then why can't we go back to an RFQ, RFP? Well, at that point, I think that's where the FA was saying the ranking system that you had was where you were getting into trouble. And there's a couple reasons for that. One is maybe the methodology. One was, the other is that, you know, to the extent they're getting to bid on things like rent amounts, it automatically sort of benefits the bigger businesses versus the smaller. And if, you know, an FA wants reasonable access for any aeronautical qualified user. So the goal is to make it as transparent and fair to all of those users as possible. They do have to be qualified. They do have to be able to do what they're going to say they're going to do. But the methodology for choosing who gets to negotiate first is, I think, where you're running into some problems. And if I just may add to what Sloan has said, we did go out to RFP for one of the properties at the airport just recently, and we're running into problems with that. We have a bid protest and we're having some inconsistency. So it has been problematic just in the one we just did, which is why we switched to the RFQ as well. But it would be a multi-phase process measure. So it would be, are they qualified? That is a formal process. You would do the typical, they make a submission, we can limit it to the group if you want to, have that list that we're working within, and that maybe it ends up with one, and maybe it ends up with five. And once you get to that group, the way that it's been done is through the RFP where you rank folks. That has not gone well, and FH has not, they have voiced concerns about that process. The proposal is it would be at that point. So you already, these are all people you'd be willing to do business with. They're all qualified. That's the point when, and they have a use that fits the property, again, too. So you're not, part of the qualification is, does it make sense for that parcel that you've identified within the qualifications they're proposing? So I think that and limiting it to the list of interested parties gets you through that pre-vetting. The drawing part, I know it sounds random, but it is within that small group that you've already qualified. And then even if, let's say you draw one name and you sit down with them, and we're going to have a list of terms that they're non-negotiable, if they can't accept those, they're not getting that lease. Then we move on to the next number that was drawn, essentially. Well, would you have to have, excuse me, would you have to have agreement from the participants whose names are going into the proverbial hat, that they would all agree that whoever gets picked out first? Yeah, it would have to be a clear enough, transparent process that everyone agrees it's random, we're going to go with whatever. You know, we all agree these are the folks that were selected as qualified, and we all agree this is the random process by which we will proceed to negotiation, and these are the basic parameters of that negotiating process. And if someone doesn't make it through that negotiating process, we move on to the next. Can I ask you a question? We're not the only airport in America. You're not. What are other community airports doing? They're not doing this randomized spin-the-wheel stuff. No. So why are we inventing a technique when we could just use the technique that someone's already done somewhere else? There's a couple different ways to do it. One we talked through was just going down the list of interested parties in the order in which they've submitted the interest, figuring out if they're qualified, negotiating from there. That does, you know, again, that limits you to that list, but it could be, it provides some structure for we're going to just go down an order of interest. And there's a separate piece to this that I'll get to, which has to do with the hangers that are going to be built in the old public work site. For that site, I recommend that you do exactly that, that you let people know you're going to create a list of those that are interested in, you let us know you want a shade hangar once you know what you're building. Shade hangar, tie down, hangar, and you literally just go in order. I think for that site, that makes the most sense. It's going to be a standard rent rate that you're applying to those hangers. That is what airports typically do for hangers. They rent them out. There's a waiting list. When somebody, when a hanger becomes available, you go to the next one that's interested. For property development, it's a little different for larger scale development. Some airports do formal RFPs. Some just sit down with whoever comes to the table and do a direct negotiation. And others do more of like what we're talking about, a kind of an RFQ process that then proceeds to negotiation. I think the challenge, commissioners, as I understand it, is that under the normal process, the interest kind of trickles in over time. And our lack of action, if you will, has created a demand that exceeds the typical amount that we are required to address. And that has kind of put us in, as I understand it, the situation of having to deal with more than one party at a time. And that's ultimately our challenge is that we have. We do have a list that staff has kept. It was just a list that has come in. It wasn't a list that anybody knew that we were counting, other than Andrew kept a list. People would make an inquiry, and because of the complaint, it has highlighted the fact that we have not operated the airport typically and we're under this gun to make a corrective action, which is why we're here. I think the suggestion that we narrow our focus to only those that have expressed an interest, I think, is a good one. It kind of keeps those who have been here as part of the mix. I think perhaps the real challenge, then, is if you have more than one party interested in a parcel, how do you pick that person? And in the past, in other airports, you might have an area that is of a certain size and a certain location that says, you know, this is the best type of user is X. A couple of people make inquiries, and that's, no, you don't fit that parcel, but we have one over here. And they go to that location, and you can be more prescriptive. Our challenge is trying to be both prescriptive and comply with the FAAs. And there are certain prescriptive things built in, right? So your minimum standards establish minimum square footage amounts for certain types of use. That's already in there. They're going to have to comply with that. They're going to have to comply with, you know, one of the requirements for any undeveloped land, and pure land developed will be they have to know about the Environmental Protection Act. They have to understand and assist you getting through the NEPA process, things like that. So there will be screens for people that are coming through. It won't be just anyone off the street that can get access to a negotiation. But the ranking process is one that the FAA does not want to see the county continue doing, given the high level of demand and the difficulty in getting through that without issue. Commissioner Hetherington. My fear is that by solving this one issue with this randomized process, that in the future you're going to create three more issues. Well, I guess what are the concerns with the randomized process specifically? You have a specific list. We're solving a problem at hand. I can't imagine that the FAA would not want you to go out for a competitive process. They just don't like the process that we've embarked on in the past. So I've got to think there's corrective action that doesn't put us – if we do this – I don't like the lottery at all. Well, that does not sound – it does not seem like prudent decision-making for your property. So I don't like the randomized process. I don't mind that there are valid property owners on the airport that have committed interests, and some of them may be very qualified and some of them may be not. But I still think that there's got to be some kind of criteria and some kind of RF – some process, not you're on this list, pick a ball out of the hat, and now we're going to negotiate with you directly. I think that solves maybe some of the VCAP issues at hand, but it creates more problems in the future. Commissioner Capps. Commissioner Hurd, I have a great level of respect of your role with the airport for 24 years, and you know the history. I would suggest you consider passing the gavel and making the motion. Good idea. Or we could take on the Middle East issues. Maybe that's easier. Well, my first priority is let's work with the list that we have and find who's qualified on that list, find out what kind of properties they're interested in and whether or not they're real buyers, and then see what properties we have available that might suit their needs, and then negotiate with them. That sounds like a motion. Hand me the gavel. So would you – here's a question, just so I can make sure that I'm putting the right thing in the correctional action plan. Is the proposal to make – to do those negotiations in the order in which we learned about it or just in the order we determined they're qualified? I'm for – I understand what you're saying, and I'm for it, but I guess the question is how do you start that process? I don't think – I think we're going to be able to satisfy all the list. Okay. Do you? So, Commissioner, I just want to make sure I understand your motion correctly. So we have a list of interested parties. I understand that you want us to issue some sort of letter of intent or an RFQ process to legitimize who on this list wants property to the airport, and based on the response of legitimate interest on the airport, we begin a negotiation process with those. Work with those people to get them something. I think I – okay. My order. Here's what I think we can do. That's not random then. What I just heard you say makes a lot more sense, Andrew, than picking someone out of a hat. It would not be random. I think the point is a good one. There is a limited universe of people, and we know the land that's available, and we can get – we can go reach out to those folks for a letter of intent. We can ask them to identify the specific property. Andrew has a list of the properties and the subparceling that's available. They can pick one of those, let us know which one they're interested in, provide the information we've outlined today to show that they're qualified and capable, and if they can get through that process, then those that can meet it, we look at what we've got, and we find a way to negotiate with those folks. That sounds good. That works for me. So moved. Sold. All right. All right. And I have one other problem. Yes. And that is on page 694. This is the old one. This is the old one. So this is not the newest plan. We'll be amending this one. Continue, Commissioner? But continue, yes. So this is on aeronautical use parcel C, which is Monterey Road. Yes. And Monterey Road everywhere is quoted as being 16 acres. It says it's 23 here. So to address that, Commissioner, this, as Ms. Hisslehart said, this was the old VCAP. That 23 acres was before we went out and actually surveyed the site. Yes. We've now surveyed the site. So make the correction. Yes. Yes. Correct. And also, we did include in that there is a buffer of tree line, so we took that into account when putting to preserve that. And that's 100 feet? Yes. Yes, Commissioner. Just to clarify, the motion is to, we are going to amend the VCAP to identify this new process. And we're also asking for permission on the old public worksite. So I don't know if that's included in your motion. And then staff is going to amend it based on this board's direction and submit it to FAA. So we just want to make sure the board understands that. Correct. Everybody agree? All right. So I passed the. Okay. So you're making it then. So there's a motion. Is there a second? I have a second. Well, no. Are you making that motion? You already made the motion. You passed the gavel to me. Yeah. Yes. So you get to make it then. I made it. We took out the lottery. Okay. Well, I made the motion. Yes. Okay. We'll make the motion. And just to be clear, we took out the lottery, right? Yes. The lottery's gone. Is there a second? Second. There you go. Public comment. Okay. Oh, would anybody from the public? No, that's me now. Sorry. Is there anyone from the public that would like to see us? Sir, you are recognized. It's going to be hard to wrench authority from me next week. Two years? How many years do you want? What the hell? I just hear you're going to preserve the trees along Monterey. There will be a 100-foot buffer along the Monterey Road corridor. Yes. Okay. Inside airport property. Yes. That's all trees. That whole 16 acres is trees. Well, so it's the 100 acres. I mean, we'll preserve the tree line, but there will be developable land inward of that, away from the road toward the airport, that will be made available. There isn't much space between that green area and the runway. We'll just let him make the comment. All right. Sorry. Sorry. So, yeah, there is an insatiable appetite for hangar space at the airport, number one. We all know that. And on the topic of EMAS, the EMAS would not even be needed if, without the illegal extension of runway 1230, which ran runway protection zones into existing neighborhoods, FAA finds out in 2011 and demands that we spend $11, $13 million on EMAS. So that's why we have EMAS, because the original illegal extension of runway 1230. I'm just here. I will do anything. I will beg. I will beg you every time I see you to look at a map and recognize what a great sound buffer where those trees are, the entire, as you see it right now, that entire parcel of trees. When I stand on the Stewart tennis courts and I hear a jet taking off 1230 out into the southeast, I hear the rumble for about the first 500 feet, and then it gets like 40 to 50, 60% quieter, and then the rumble once it gets up again. So the sound deadening of that piece of property to three-fifths of Stewart, the city of Stewart, okay, including all of 10th Street and all the, just take a look at a map at who lives north of that piece of property that is buffering the sound of that nasty, filthy pit stop, okay, that is ours. We own it because of that illegal extension of runway 1230 in 1998. So please throw me a bone and do what you can to at least postpone development of that, now it's 16 acres, not 23, of that piece, all right? If you can save one thing for the people and tell the FAA to take a flying hike and work for the people, it's that, it's just that. That's 16 acres of noise-deadening mature trees that is going to help out so many people that live to the north of there. And take a look at the map. It's at least three-fifths of the city of Stewart that will be affected if that property gets developed. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Anyone else looking to address us? We have a motion by Commissioner Hurd, seconded by Commissioner Vargas. All those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? That motion carries unanimously. Thank you, Commissioners. We will take up number, Department Number 9, which is approval of a sovereignty submerged land lease modification with the trustees of the Internal Improvement Trust Fund for the docking and loading facility adjacent to the county-owned property in Port Salerno. Good afternoon. Carlos Segura, Real Property Manager. This item is, as you mentioned, the approval of a modification to the sovereign submerged land lease. The sovereign submerged modification will accomplish three things. It will add the fishermen as co-lessees with the county. It will revise the sovereign submerged land lease area, and it will adjust the number of slips authorized to align with the number reflected in the ERP permit that was approved by the county and the state in the permitting process. It is important to clarify that the number of slips authorized by the state lease does not by itself establish the number of slips authorized by Martin County. The county's upland lease with the Port Salerno Commercial Fisherman is a separate agreement, and the number of slips authorized under that agreement will always supersede the number on any other document. Following approval of the sovereign submerged land lease, our next item will be the Fourth Amendment to the lease, which will establish that number of slips that will be approved. When the sovereign submerged land lease expires next year, we'll be able to make sure that all those numbers correlate with each other. Staff recommends approval of the sovereign submerged land lease modification between the trustees of the Internal Improvement Trust Fund with Martin County and the Port Salerno Commercial Fishing Dock Authorities as coalescees with the understanding that the number of slips authorized in the sovereign submerged land lease does not necessarily establish the number that will be in the county's lease agreement. Staff also recommends that the board authorize the chair to execute all documents necessary to complete this transaction. Questions for Ms. Segura. Commissioners, this lease does not expire until November 1, 2027, so it would be my recommendation that we not consider this lease today. We have no idea what Amendment 3 is going to do to us, but we do know that it's going to decrease our ability to raise property taxes. I have a question. How much is the lease right now? DEP charges per square foot, and I think right now it's right at $13,000, and they just paid their annual. Commissioner Campy. Thank you. I think, you know, first off, this tenant has been the cornerstone of that whole downtown dock area for decades, and I understand, I think we all do, that Amendment 3, the dust has yet to settle. However, I think it would be potentially unfair that every applicant that comes forward, especially our long-time tenants, have to bear the responsibility of what we will be having to do. They are not a $1 a year lease. It is a thriving portion of Port Salerno or Martin County. They sat and waited, not that that's a reason to approve something or not. Staff's recommendation is of approval. And when the Amendment 3 issues come home to roost, it will be for the five of us to look at more globally than start to, like, specifically pecking at one person or another. I would make a motion to accept staff's recommendation. I agree. I would second. Yeah. This is... Leaving them so vulnerable to indecision. This lease was struck in 2004? It was a response... Well, no, that's the lease between us and the fishermen. It was in 2004, yes. And it was in response to the net ban, and this was supposed to be a temporary. It was going to be a 30-year phased-out lease in order to get to transition the local fishermen through the net ban. And it was supposed to... There were 35 members, and as they retired, they would fall off, and that position in the membership would not be renewed. And the commission board changed that somewhere along the way and made it kind of, you know, there's no end to it. So now this is one of the county's most expensive assets, and it's for the singular use of one special interest group with seemingly no end in sight. And now the proposal is not only do we want to extend this lease 20 years, but we also want to add on. We want to make our membership permanent at 35, and we want to have 30 transient slips? There's... 65 slips? Total is what the permit says. There are 30 transient slips that the fishing authority can rent for profit to transients, to people who don't live here, who don't pay taxes here. Our people, except for the 35 slips that the fishermen get, they have exclusive right to that, but none of our residents have the right to any of those other 30 additional slips that they're asking for now. And that is just... Man, we are... Let me tell you, in three years, you're not going to... If this passes, you're not going to believe you approved this. We are going to be so, so hungry for fees that we're not going to be able to get because we gave those fees to a special interest group of people who don't even live here. By definition, it's due to transients, not to residents. So, you know, that's a little bit of history with this, and I think that it's a really, really dangerous precedent and one that's going to give people a whole lot of regrets in the future because we may lose our ability to raise property taxes altogether in the special session that's upcoming. Mr. Robertson. We have every right, and we should not shirk our responsibilities, to look at everybody who's coming to ask for a parcel of land and paying a negligible amount of money that is unheard of. This is not reality. Reality is you have to pay a market rent, but we don't have to have these huge, long, lengthy leases, either 20, 30 years. Somebody on our commission says 99 year. Why would you say that? That makes zero sense. No, these are our assets, and we have to protect that. Now, if they're earning money, why aren't they paying us then? Some portion of that I don't quite understand. Okay, this is the lease for the sovereign submerged lands. It has nothing to do with the upland portion. Okay. This portion is just for the lands, and DEP renews these leases every five years. The reason it was changed this time is because the dock authority wanted to do some modifications to their docks, and so they submitted a permit, which was approved through the county in 2024. So that's what this modification is about. It has nothing to do with the upland portion. It has to do with the sovereign submerged lands. So why don't you just make it for a shorter period of time? But again, I have to agree with, and I don't know why the others are just sitting stone cold here. I mean, we just had a cataclysmic change, which I've been talking about since I came on this board in early 2025. It is not for us, and I understand what you're saying, Ms. Segura, but it's not for us to give away the assets. I just said that. Was it an hour ago? Something like that. I keep saying the same thing. Why are some people here on this board, are they afraid? Do they have allegiance elsewhere? Your job is to protect what you've been entrusted to do, and that is your job. I had a businessman say, yeah, that is your job. So either you need to get with this program here as what's coming up, or it's not going to be a good day for you. Commissioner Campy. Thank you. I think we're blending the two agenda items together, which we shouldn't. The first thing, as Ms. Segura said, it's a five-year situation. I think the character of the manatee pocket, Port Salerno, if you were to poll the residents, the locals, the long-time locals, the people that run those businesses, work in these areas, they would have unanimous, if not nearly unanimous, support for the DOC authority and the folks that work there. This is not some decision that's made lightly. Yes, the people have spoken about Amendment 3, and that doesn't mean that we're going to look at different organizations to tear them limb from limb. Everyone up here is entitled to have their personal opinions. That's why their opinions. I'm not interested in belittling my colleagues' opinions or trying to figure out what her or his motivation might be. I make a motion to accept staff's recommendation. Second. And how many slips does that include? That's the next concept. No. It's part of this one. So how many slips does this one include? So the Sovereign Submerged Land Lease matches the permit that was already approved by the county in 2024. It just brings the number to the same amount as the permit, which is 65 total. 65. 65. Okay. And this is a process that was begun two years ago and that this organization has been working on for two years. And now all of a sudden we say, nah, because it took us a long time to negotiate it. Not your fault. So all of a sudden, if this was three months ago, look, Amendment 3, I didn't fight it for it, against it. I understood it was coming. The people have spoken. But I'll tell you, if we're guessing the mood of the general public, it wasn't to create new ways to squeeze not-for-profits or other organizations that have had decades of negotiations and business dealings with the county. It was for the county to tighten its belt and to spend less money, not to think about new ways to make money some other way. And we'll do that when the time comes. I appreciate what Mr. Donaldson put out recently. It's not like, hey, let's go after all of our not-for-profits. Let's charge Little League to use the fields. Let's charge soccer to put the lights on. Let's charge people to go to the beach or use the bathroom. It's to spend less money, not to figure out new ways to make extra money. I think this – I know that, Commissioner Hurd, for as much as you and I can agree, this has been an interesting topic for you, this whole dock authority. And on this particular one, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I think this is the heart and soul of the manatee pocket and the heart and soul of Port Salerno. I think the people in Port Salerno love this organization. And that's why I've seen it since the beginning. They're beloved in their community. And so why would we poke them in the eye? And we have no – it's not like we have someone else desperate to go there and push these guys out. And if we can do a 20-year lease and they're here 20 years from now, good for all of us, because it's a tough industry to be in these days. And maybe five years from now they don't exist. Why would we want to precipitate the demise of our history? Thank you. Commissioner Hetherington. I don't know if I could replicate all that. I agree with everything you just said. And we have been working on this for quite some time, so I'm not going to reverse course. So I would like a second in your motion. And I believe that Port Salerno, the dock authority, is part of the fabric of the community, and I will support that. Commissioner Vargas. You know, I don't know why my colleague says we're blending – it's very clear what's written here, but unfortunately he doesn't want to question nonprofits. I've seen this behavior continuously for almost the last two years. Why? Why? What are you afraid of? Oh, because you're involved with a nonprofit that probably doesn't pay the actual market rent. That's another day, another topic to the county for use of property. We have to question everything. Everything's on the table today. So, you know, I don't see why we're not stepping forward. I mean, this is the proper thing to do. I've said this already. There's a huge reluctance, and I can't quite understand. This is real life. This is what people do. If the county were going to lease a property from a private individual, we'll give you a dollar a month, we'll tell them. They'll say, are you kidding me? Are you kidding? And maybe more, they would say. So, you know, I have to really look at this very carefully. The world changed for everybody about a week ago. I knew it was coming, but everybody else with the blinders on, and I'm sorry my fellow commissioners don't agree with me, but that's the way it is. We all bring different world experiences, real world experiences. We've been business owners signing the front of a check, not the back of a check, only as an employee. Gary Erler, would you like to speak to us? Good evening, commissioners. Good evening. My name is Gary Erler. I'm a resident of Port Salerno. Seven years ago, I moved to this community. I've spoke on this topic for these people, the Dock Authority, for five years. I've embraced Port Salerno. We talked about the railroad earlier. Since 1894, they said Henry Flagler extended the railway. Well, guess what? Since 1894, and I've done the research, they've shipped fish on that same railway headed north. You want seafood? A lot of it comes out of Port Salerno. You heard the gentleman this morning order the Pompano at, I don't remember where, it doesn't matter. You want fresh seafood? Port Salerno needs to stay there. That working waterfront matters? There's no way. I've spoke on it five times in the last two years, and here we are again, and we're talking a 20-year lease. It hasn't been 20 years. I've had to do this five times in two years, so it hasn't been 20. So we keep bringing it up, and we keep bringing it up. They've been here longer than Martin County. Thank you. Okay, there is a motion to approve the submerged land lease and also to expand the number of slips from 35 to 65, with 35 of those being used for dock authority and 30 of those to be leased at whatever market fee is to transients, those people who don't live in Martin County. That's the proposal that's on the floor. So all those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Opposed? That motion passes 3-2 with Commissioners Vargas and Herd dissenting. Follow-up with Department 10. This item is for the approval of the Fourth Amendment to lease with the Port Salerno Commercial Fishing Dock Authority to establish the total number of slips approved by the board. The number of slips approved and placed on the Fourth Amendment supersedes any number authorized on the sovereign submerged land lease or the environmental resources permit. The Port Salerno Commercial Fishing Dock Authority has been a historic part of the community for some time and has had a lease with the county for over 20 years. Staff worked with the Port Salerno Commercial Fishing Dock Authority to negotiate the proposed Fourth Amendment to lease, which revises some of the provisions as follows. The rent is to clarify that the payment will be for the entire invoiced amount from Florida Department of Environmental Protection, which includes payment of the annual leases. The improvements also has a change in it where it specifies the total number of slips authorized for operation of the commercial docking facility, which includes the 35 slips for the members, a board-determined number for the commercial transient slips, and 10 recreational slips, which are currently already on the lease. It also clarifies the responsibilities and requires maintenance to be kept in an attractive manner and that all trash and debris be removed that is generated. Under miscellaneous conditions, we deleted a couple of the paragraphs and revised them, which are just the memberships, the guests, the alcohol, non-member qualifications, record-keeping for transient non-members, and boardwalk maintenance. Staff recommends that the board accept the Fourth Amendment to lease with the input of the total number of approved slips and authorize the chair to execute all documents. I wanted to bring up that in the Florida statutes, not-for-profit organizations are authorized under 125-38, and if the county commission determines that a piece of property is no longer useful or needed by the county for certain purposes, they can lease those properties to not-for-profits. At a private sale for selling a property or to an applicant for a price, whether nominal or otherwise, as fixed by the board, regardless of the actual value of such property. Market value is not determined on the not-for-profits, only if you go out for bid. If there's any questions. Questions? Commissioner Camp. Motion to accept staff's recommendation. Second. What's staff's recommendation? How many slips? We just need a number that y'all determined that is currently it's 35 for the members and 10 transient slips. That's what's currently on there. But they're also asking for, well, to match with the 65, it would be 20 transient commercial-type slips. So what's the motion? For 35 or for 45 or for 65? Well, when you were recapping the motion last time, you said 65. The sovereign submerged land lease does say 65, but we can determine on our lease with the fishermen, which is the upland portion, how many they can have in their sovereign submerged land lease. 65. Commissioner Vargas. I need you to clarify this, what you were requesting that we make a decision on right now. Would you please restate that again? Yes. So currently, the lease that we have with the Port Salerno fishermen is for the upland lease. The county has a lease with the fishermen. The upland lease determines how many slips they are allowed on their sovereign submerged land lease portion. So we've always given them, well, they had 35 members, so they had 35 slips for the members, and then 10 transient slips were available. So 45 is already approved. This new amendment would state that it's 20 additional slips, or whatever you determine, additional. Well, it can go up to 65, yes. Up to 65. So this is what we're deciding right now. Is that what I'm understanding? Yes. And for clarity, Commissioners, if I may just read from the language of the lease, the 65 total slips set by the sovereign submerged lease is broken down as follows. 35 slips to be used exclusively for the lessor's members for the mooring of commercial vessels, for loading and unloading seafood, goes on a little bit. 20 commercial transient slips and 10 slips, which went unoccupied by commercial vessels may be temporarily rented to the general public. So it's a total of 65 slips broken down the way I just explained. Am I allowed to add potential language that those 10 remaining 10 slips be only leased to Martin County residents? The document we have has been signed by the DOC authority, so we can certainly amend it, and they would have to initial that change. But, yes, it would be your decision whether you want to change that language. We have to have some benefit. Can I ask Mr. Uden or who's ever representing the – you'd have to what? I was only – I'm not sure that the land lease would really allow you to restrict it to Martin County residents. Similar to boat ramps and things like that? Yes. Then I – instead of complicating the issue, I would leave it as it stands. I tried to address your issue. No. A little bit. There's a motion and a second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? Opposed? Vigorously opposed. That's Vargas and Heard. So we've come to the end of our meeting. Let's take up Commissioner comments. Commissioner Vargas. It's been a long day. It's been a long week. And we're still working through the situation, as you know, in Jensen Beach. So I thought it was productive that we had folks here this morning to be able to voice and plead. And we certainly had those that can give aid. And it was explained to us very well by our Human Services Director. I'll leave it on a lighter note. Ryo Marine Village is going to have their groundbreaking this Thursday at 10.30 in the morning. This is a 16-plus acre major non-gated mixed-use waterfront redevelopment. And it's along the St. Lucie River and Northeast Dixie Highway in the historic community of Ryo. So they expect folks to start moving in within the next two to two-and-a-half years. And they're pretty bold in saying they want to finish within four years, this project. So that's coming up. It's quite attractive. It falls into the CRA. And, yeah, please come out or tell others about it. Thank you. Commissioner Capps. On a light note, tomorrow is our County Administrator's birthday. So happy birthday one day in advance. Happy birthday. Thank you. And I just wanted to bring up Amendment 3 again. This really is going to be a game changer, particularly in Martin County, because we're so dependent upon residential property taxes and especially upon homesteaded property taxes. So I understand now that the governor is indicating that he's going to be calling the legislature in for another special session of his old legislature before he's forced to retire and that they're contemplating even more cuts. And so I would respectfully ask our three existing state representatives, Representative Snyder and Oberdorf and Senator Harrell, to meet with county staff, with Stephanie Murley, and to look over our budget and to make – we forecast what our shortfalls are going to be. And I want them to make the cuts that we're going to be forced to make in the next three years, $42 million the first year, $75 million the next year, and $170 million in the next year. And, C, I want all three of our representatives to come in and find out how serious their actions are. They all three voted for this. They all three indicated that apparently they think that our budgets are bloated. So I want to know how they would propose to cut our budgets. And then I can't think of a more surefire way to ruin an economy than to destroy our water quality. So then I would also ask our three legislators to go to the Water Management District and take a look – sit down with their budget people and find out from our legislators how they would cut their budgets over the next three years. And then I want them to go to the Children's Services Council and do the same thing. They need to understand the seriousness of Amendment 3 and what it's going to do to our quality of life here. And if they're serious politicians, and I hope they all are, I hope they all take their responsibilities very seriously. This is – I feel that this is an obligation that they need to make to Martin County. Thank you. Yes. I'm waiting for you to say it's okay. Tomorrow is Veterans Day. I'd like to thank all those that have served and their families for that service. And with that in mind, the Palm City Chamber of Commerce is having their annual Veterans Memorial Bridge 5K. It's this Saturday, November 14th. It starts at 7 a.m. at Jock Layton Park, which is at the corner of Map Road and Martin Highway. It's diagonal from the Palm City Post Office. We're honoring all those who serve. The registration, you can contact to sign up. It's called runsignup.com, where you can reach out to the Palm City Chamber of Commerce. The good news is that the registration fee is $50, but with that registration fee, you get a free ticket to the air show, which will also be this coming weekend. So basically, you run in the morning for veterans over the Veterans Memorial Bridge, and then either Saturday or Sunday, you can use your free veterans-run air show ticket with your registration. So we'd love for you to come out. There's a beautiful commemorative medal that you will get for participating. It's a great way to show our appreciation to America's veterans. And with that, let me say to my colleague, it's been a pleasure serving with you. Although we will no longer be colleagues, we will always be friends. All the best to you. Thank you. And Commissioner Featherington. We can all actually be friends now. No sunshine. How about that? We can. I want to wish everybody a happy Veterans Day. Thank you so much for your recognition this morning and the beautiful framed photo. I will be here on the other side of this dais supporting, being vocal. And I look forward to the next chapter, and it's been a pleasure working with all of you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Mr. Donaldson. I'm late for dinner. Yes, I know you're late, so I'll be as quick as I can. I have one business item that I need direction from you all, if I can get your approval. We do have, and I'm not going to talk about Amendment 3. I will be dealing, you will be having many conversations with that over the next months and years. And so, but in regards to looking at how we pay for services, one area we're looking at is a fire fee. I'm not asking you to do anything that would commit to doing that, but in order to do our evaluation on it, I'd like to do an advertisement for the end of the year so that during the next year we can evaluate it. So I'm just simply asking for your permission to advertise a non-advalorem assessment for a fire fee. It would require several public hearings and workshops before we would either do something like that with a vote by the board either next year or the following year, but this would get us the ability to start the process of doing that examination and let the tax collector know that it's at least something going to be considered, and it would also let the taxpayers know that it's something that we may consider in the future. So if I can get your approval to do that, I would appreciate it. Yes. Commissioner Capps. Yeah. I think it's just real important where you make it real clear what this is and what it's not. We're not approving a fire free, a fire fee now. So this is just like a requirement that we have to do something to advertise it before the end of the year or it's not even an option next year. It only preserves the option for a fire fee. It's not an approval for a fire fee, is it? Yes, that's correct. Okay. Commissioner Vargas. What is the fire fee that is proposed? There isn't one being proposed. It is a fire fee is anywhere from $0 to a certain amount per year that a property owner would pay for the fire service they're receiving. It's a non-advalorem. In other words, it's not based upon. It requires analysis on how you compute the fee, how you give mitigation credits, so there's a lot involved into it. So think of it like a water utility fee. It's based upon your expected service that you're going to be delivered. But the actual amount that would be charged on any given year is annually approved. But in order to even consider one, we would need an advertisement before December 31st, at least four weeks in a row. And so that's why I had to bring it up today. And we would have normally not considered that. But with Amendment 3, it is an option to be able to lower property taxes on homestead and regular property taxes with the fire fee. So that's why we're asking for it. But it does not commit the board. It just simply lets the taxpayers know that there's an option for the board to consider it next year or the year after. Commissioner Campy. To Commissioner Kapp's point, we're not approving it or saying we would do it, purely leaving the door open to the prospect of a conversation so that we're leaving our options open to us. I'm not opposed. Are you looking for motions? I don't believe I need a motion. I can just get your approval that I'm going to make the advertisement. Okay. Thank you. Anything else? Other than thank you, Commissioner Hetherington, for your service once again. And, you know, the days that we decide to retire or leave, you can't pick them. You pick the doozy. Yeah, really. And our thoughts and prayers go for the folks in Highline and the other Fulet properties. It's a serious – we take that all seriously, and our staff have been working tirelessly, and we'll continue that conversation. Thank you, staff, for everything you're doing. Ms. Elder. One more thing, Commissioners, is that we are next week going to be establishing our calendar for meetings for 2027. And I know we've all tentatively looked at the tentative calendars. Because of Amendment 3, I don't want poor Stephanie Murley and poor Donald Donaldson to have to slug through budget cuts all alone. We need to be participating in all of it, so I'm going to suggest that we have workshop meetings, perhaps one a month, you know, before we establish our final budget, which is in June or July, just to help – because I don't want that burden to go on our staff to try to cut out $42 million. I think that that's – it's going to be a big part of our responsibility to take – to – I agree with that. I agree with that we should be a part of this. Absolutely. All right. Anything else? We are adjourned. Thank you.