Rules Committee - May 04, 2026

I got him. Good afternoon and welcome to our rules, City of Jacksonville Rules Committee. Today is Monday, May 4th. Let the time reflect that it is 2 p.m. and we will start with introductions to our left. Good afternoon, Garrett Dennis, Administration. Colleen Hampsey, Council Research. Carla Schell, Office of General Counsel. Krista Carraher, Council Auditor's Office. Ken Amar, City Council District 1. Terrence Freeman, At-Large Group 1. Ron Salem, Group 2 At-Large. Mike Gay, District 2. Michael Boylan, District 6. Good afternoon, Rory Diamond, District 13. The Beach is just visiting. Thank you. Mr. Diamond, which bill are you here visiting for? Would that be 268? Okay, thank you. All right, we'll go through kind of the lay of the land and then we'll get everything going. We'll get our appointees out of here. First items that we'll take up will be page 4, item 7, be the appointment of Kim Black. The next item will be page 4, item 8, 2026-0244. That is the appointment of Ms. Martha Moore. And the first one is 2026-0241. The next one is on page 9, item 15, 2026-0277, appointment of, this looks like, is it Philippe Peterson for the position of Council Auditor. We're going to have, we're going to, I'm sorry, Phillip. We're going to have a little curveball thrown here. We're going to, I'm moving item 7 up, page 7, item 21. That is 2026-0265. That'll be taken up after Mr. Peterson's appointment. Then we'll have page 6, item 10, 2026-0265. That's Councilman Johnson's bill. That was heard in neighborhoods. He won't be here, but I'm the only new one. And I was at neighborhoods today for the discussion. And then the next item will be page 9, item 13, 2026-0268, Councilman Salem's bill. And then the rest of the agenda will go as, as planned. Item 1, 2024-26627 will be deferred. I do have some questions about the deferrals. I think it's a, it's a 24 month rule. And then they roll off. Is that, is that still correct? Okay. I'm very curious. I know that bill might need two thirds votes, Councilman Diamond, but I'm very curious in a bill like this moving forward. I do believe that if we're going to live in a political climate where the administration is going to pick and choose when they want to execute, then whatever powers we have as a body, we must, and we may have to start leveraging them. And I know that's going to take 13 votes, but we're going to continue to see how they respond to bills that we pass and if they're willing to execute. Item 2, 2024-0966 will be deferred. Item 3, 2025-0775 will be deferred. They can request a Councilman Carlucci. Item 4, 2026-192 is deferred. 2026-023-203 is deferred. 2026-0227 is deferred. Request a Diamond. Action item will be item 7. Item 8 will be an action item. We've already said that. Item 9 is going to be an action item. Item 10, 2022-0267 is an action item. 11 is an action item. 12 is an action item. 13 is amend move. 14 is an action item. 15 is action item. 16 is an amend move. And then the following bills will be seconded. 2026-0317, 2026-0318, 2026-0319, 0-320, 0-327, 0-335, 0-336, 0-337, 0-338, 0-339, 0-340, 0-341, 0-342. I'm on item 30. 0-343, 21-31 is 0-344, 0-346, 0-347, 0-348. Item 35 will be an action item. That's 2026-0349. The following again will be seconded. 2026-0350, 0-351, 0-352, 0-355, 0-356, 0-357, 0-358, 0-359, 0-360. Item 45 will be an action item up. That's 2026-0361. And then the last three are all seconded. 0-362, 0-363, and 0-364. With that being said, are there any public comments? We have two. We'll have, I can't read this. Mr. It looks like Francis is there. There it is. Thank you. Ms. Francis, you don't mind giving us your name your address. Of course. My name is Maya Francis. Thank you. My address is on file. I just wanted to share my support for the nomination of Ms. Kim Black. I have the pleasure of serving alongside of her for a volunteer role, I would add. Within the community, we are residents of the Eastside. The organization is Historic Eastside Resident Alliance, where we both engage in our civic duty of just supporting our neighbors, ensuring that all the resources are available for them to thrive. We work in collaboration with our neighbors. So I just wanted to speak to her being a new resident, myself as well, but already having that heart to ensure that the community has everything that they need to be able to thrive. So I wanted to just share that here with you all today, and again, really hoping for nothing but the best with this nomination for her. I support her completely as a resident and a neighbor. Thank you. Thank you so much. Next, we have Ms. Suzanne Pickett. Good morning, everyone. My name is Suzanne Pickett. My address is on file. I am the president and CEO of Historic Eastside Community Development Corporation. I have served the Eastside since 2013, and I've answered the call to build the organization capable of preserving, protecting, and enduring the growth of the beginning of the Eastside neighborhood. I am here in support of Kim Black for the Eastside Grants Committee. I ask that as you stand before us, I thank you for your commitment to this work. We have a group of members that have worked tirelessly for years to get to this place. I ask this committee and all the city council committees that as you stand before us and you hear opposition to this work, that you ask the question of those opposing, what is your affiliation to the Eastside? Are you a community member? Are you a resident? Do you live there? Do you work there? This work is extremely important. We are moving forward in Eastside as you see development happening all around us. This CBA committee has done a great job of helping us so that we are not left behind, but as we are a complement to all the development that's happening with us. So again, I ask you, as you receive letters, as you stand there and hear people degrade, people that come before you, ask them those questions about their affiliation to this community. Thank you. Thank you so much. And so that takes us now to our agenda. We'll start off with the appointments. The first one can be found on page four. Item seven is 2026-0241 on entertainer motion. We got a motion and a second on the bill. Is Ms. Black here? Ms. Black, thank you so much for coming down. If you don't mind giving us your name, your address, and just sharing a little bit about why you're choosing to serve on the Eastside Grants Commission. I'm Kim Black. I live at 1206 Van Buren Street. I'm part of a multi-generational household, a fact that I'm very proud of because we believe that it takes a village. My family and I made the deliberate decision, an intentional choice to build and live on the Eastside of Jacksonville in Campbell's addition. My oldest daughter, Dr. Kirsten Pugh, was a part, was in the first cohort for Project Boots, and as a result of that, closed on our family home in June of 2024. My family's safety, wealth, future is tied directly to what happens out East for the next two to three decades. As a native of Jacksonville and a retired registered nurse for 26 years and counting, I'm still counting because I do maintain my Florida an active unencumbered Florida nursing license. Transitioning from bedside nursing to administrative nursing, ultimately to leadership, I bring to the table a systems perspective that would be grounded in accountability, resource management, and measured outcomes. I would see my purpose at the table to help ensure that the community, rather my community, sees tangible and sustainable results from the community benefits agreement. Thank you. Is there anyone in the queue with any questions for Ms. Black? Council Member Gay, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Through the chair to Ms. Black, and I appreciate your willingness to serve here and to be consistent with all the other ones that's come before us. My only question of charge to you is, will you commit to listening to the community, the voice of the people, and hearing what their desires and needs are? That's all I would ask, and just ask if you would be willing to commit to that. Yes, Council Member Gay, I strongly believe in a resident-centered approach. All right, thank you. Thank you. Let the record reflect that Council Member Joe Carlucci's joined us, as well as Council President Kevin Carrico, and he's up in the queue. Councilman Carrico, Mr. President, and Senior, Matt Carlucci, I'm so sorry, is here as well. Councilman Carrico, you recognize me. Sorry, you just have to turn it on. Through the chair, thank you for calling on me. No question, specifically. I support you on the CBA. Your resume was in my stack of people to consider to move forward to this board and the important work, and the mayor beat me to it. So I don't think you'll have any problems here with this committee, but I'll just add my support and wish you good luck in doing the right thing for the CBA. Thank you. Thank you. All right, thank you. Seeing no one else in the queue, thank you so much for putting yourself forward. You're welcome to have a seat. It's been moved and properly seconded. Seeing no one else in the queue, please open the ballot and record your vote. Seven yays, zero nays. By your actions, you've approved 2026-0241. And it's not in my notes here, but you all will be recognized on the council night at the conclusion of the vote. So if you can come next Tuesday, that would be great. Councilmember Joe Carlucci, Councilmember Matt Carlucci, you're both here. Is there a particular bill that either one of you are here for? We are, because I can't speak for my boy. I'm just here for the overall ambiance of this rule. We're glad to have you here. I don't get a chance to go anywhere else. Take it all in. We're glad you're here. Go Celtics, right? All right. Page four, item eight brings up our next action item, 2026-0244. I'll entertain a motion. We got a motion and a second on the bill is Ms. Martha Moore. Hey, you're already up. If you don't mind sharing your name, address, and it's a brief summary of who you are and what you do. All right. Martha Moore, 225 Water Street, Suite 1510, Jacksonville. I'm a longtime transportation and traffic engineer here in this city. I'm a native of Jacksonville. I live on the north side on Black Hammock Island. And I feel that my engineering expertise and years of experience, as well as my understanding of the city, are going to be very beneficial to the mobility working group. And I'll just take any questions you may have. Well, thank you so much. Bringing us back to the body. Are there any questions for Ms. Moore? Seeing none. Ms. Moore, thank you so much for putting yourself forward. It's been moved and properly seconded. Please open the ballot and record your vote. Seven yays, zero nays. All your actions you've approved, 2026-0244. That takes us to item page nine, item 15, 2026-0277. This is the appointment of Philip Peterson, position of city auditor. We got a motion and a second on it. Mr. Peterson, thank you. Glad to see you up there. Please, you got three minutes. Just tell us whatever you'd like to tell us. It's surely a different view down here. Philip Peterson, I've been working for the city for 21 years now, all within the council auditor's office. And just look forward to serving you in this new role. Thank you so much for that. With the queues lighting up, I'm going to start off with the committee members first. Council Member Gate, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to be added as a co-sponsor. Council Member Boylan, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Same for me, please. Add me as a co-sponsor. Council Member Amaro, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to be added as well. Through the chair to Mr. Peterson. Mr. Peterson, what do you think is going to be the biggest challenge facing you should you go through this process and be approved? Through the chair to Council Member Amaro. I've worked for Ms. Taylor for six years directly underneath her. And then for the 15 years prior, she has been a phenomenal leader in our office. So if I can fill the shoes that she has held, I think I will be very successful. We have always had a slightly difficult time in filling positions in our office. More success in that since we've raised the starting salary in recent years. But I think just competing with the private sector has proven to be very difficult in getting people to want to interview with our office. Once they interview, I think they realize the value that we provide to the city. So that's probably the area. But it's nothing that we haven't experienced in my 21 years here with the city. Thank you. Council Member White, you recognize. Yes, sir. Please add me as a co-sponsor also, please. Thank you. Council Member Salem, past president, you recognize. Thank you, Chair. I want to be a co-sponsor as well. But when you face issues like this, sometimes it's good to go outside and look for the best person regionally, nationally. But sometimes you've got the best person that I think we all agree right there in house. And I think this is a situation where it's very clear to promote within with the experience that Phillip has. And I'm excited for his opportunity. Thank you. All right. Thank you. And now we move to our non-committee members. Council Member Diamond, you recognize. Thank you. I was just lucky I got to be here. This doesn't go to any committee I'm on. So I want to be as a co-sponsor. And I would just like to make sure everybody has heard that when we had Kim, and now we have Lil' Kim. And so I just I just want this nickname to continue on the record in posterity forever. Council Member Matt Carlucci, you're recognized. The council auditor has been to me over my many years a the most important office, actually, in my opinion, the whole city of Jacksonville. And to get a little humor out of the way, I guess, you got a big pair of high heels to fill, Phil. But I have known Bob Johnson since I was probably 12, 13 years old. And I have known so many council auditors and worked with so many council auditors. And this is the first break from the Bob Johnson brainstem. In other words, he's the last of those that are succeeded from being hired by Bob. Now, there's another council auditor, maybe behind Phil, that was hired by Bob. Bob Johnson's legacy of excellence, of fairness, of thoroughness, of being able to explain and to command respect has gone from every council auditor that has succeeded him after his retirement. And I've known every one of them in a very close, personal way. And when I had lunch with Bob a couple of weeks ago, I mentioned to him Phil Peterson. And he said that he's had interaction with Phil. He has all the 100 percent confidence in Phil to do the job. And I had told Bob I called Phil a couple of days before he and I went to lunch. And I told Phil congratulations. And that he was definitely Bob Johnson worthy. And that is a hell of a good compliment. So we're not going to skip a beat with you. But it's because that Bob Johnson legacy of excellence, of confidence, of credibility has just gone from one auditor to the next, to the next, to the next, to the next, and else with you. And so you got a big job to fill and to pass on to whoever succeeds you. And I have no doubt in my mind that you will do that. You think you will do that? Yes, sir. I know you will too. And I congratulate you. And thank you for the years that you have worked with me on difficult subjects, even when I went down in flames. But I always knew if I went down in flames, if I was on my auditor's side, I was right. And it wasn't a side that y'all were taking policy on. It was a side of the right numbers. Numbers don't lie. And I thank you for everything you've done up to this point. And I look forward to working with you. And I don't know if Kim is in here or not, but we sure are going to miss her. But we wish her the very best. Sorry if I took too much time. Uh, but, um, I just had to say what I have to say. I got such a long history with their office. Uh, thank you, Phil. Uh, thank you, Mr. Carlucci. That's what committee's for. There's no clock here. And we're not up against anything. And miss, miss Kim is right behind here. Uh, Mr. Till right down the front row to your right. As I say, you're looking for, um, no one else is in the queue. So I'll just finish with this one. Um, Philip, thank Mr. Peterson. Thank you so much, uh, for being willing to stick around after all the chaos and craziness you've seen over the years, um, still willing to serve. I think, and I view our auditors as the key examples of umpires. You call balls and strikes. I've never seen nor heard of any situation where the, even the optics leaned that you were trying to put your thumb on the scale one way or the other. Um, I wish I could say that about other areas, but I can't all the time. Maybe sometimes because of my nativity and understanding all of the rules, uh, but I always have this philosophy. If you run it through your attorneys, you run it through the auditors and you run it through ethics, you got a great chance of having a good bill come out. Um, and so thank you for continuing it. Um, Ms. Taylor, we're going to miss you. Um, we're going to miss that, that humble, quiet, calm spirit. Um, but it's being replaced now by another humble individual. And, and thank you so much for answering the calling in your life and serving our city. With that being said, let's please, it's been moved and properly seconded. Please open the ballot and record your vote. And, um, please add me as a co-sponsor. Seven yays, zero nays. By your actions, you've approved 2026-0277. Congratulations, Mr. Peterson. Um, next will be on page seven, uh, item, I can't be right. It's item 21. So let's see here. Now that's page seven, item 11, not 21, page seven, item 11 is, uh, Neighborhoods Amendment 2026-0265. We got a motion and a second on the Neighborhoods Amendment. Can we please have that amendment explained? Yes, through the chair to the committee, the Neighborhoods Amendment will extend the term of the contract to September 30th, 2028, and require reporting on the status of the enrollees one year after payment by the city. Uh, we'll add a provision that any enrollee who is not still in the program would result in a repayment to the city of $2,500, um, per enrollee. Uh, thank you. Seeing no one in a queue, all in favor of the amendment, say aye. Those opposed have the same right, the amendment carries. Got a motion and a second on the bill as amended. Any discussion? All right. Seeing none, I do have a few things that I want to make sure of. We have Mr. Dennis sitting, uh, here today. Um, this morning, I asked the, uh, liaison, Mr. Delaney, his initial response was he didn't know and he'd get back with us and then he followed back up. And then I believe Councilmember Gay asked that by rules, we were to hear something. Um, and so where is the administration, um, from your perspective, Mr. Dennis, we have a couple representatives in the stand out in the crowd today from the apprenticeship program on this bill. Uh, through the chair to the committee, uh, the administration is in support, uh, of this bill. Um, as you know, that is a policy decision and, uh, once you all approve it, uh, we will do our, uh, duty in making sure that, um, these agencies, uh, receive the appropriations that you all have appropriated. And thank, and thank you for that. And for those who don't know, the reason why I asked that question for those in the crowd is, is we had last session a $200,000 JSEV, Jacksonville Small Emerging Business Bill go through that the administration on record said that they did not approve of and it did not align with the mayor's. You can go pull the record archives. It did not align with the mayor's initiatives. However, if you look at the commercial or, or if you listen to WOKV this morning, that's what the mayor talked about. They touted JSEVs. Well, apprenticeship programs is something that's important to this council as well. And we want to ensure we make policy. We do not force the execution that is on the administration side. So I'm moving forward. Any bill that I file, I'm going to always ask on record, are they going to execute? And so this is the second committee that they've said it. So Mr. Fouts, you've heard it. I know I've talked to many small business owners, many of them from diverse backgrounds. Uh, and they're very upset about the JSEV piece. Uh, I think the JSEV advisory board has done a resolution as well. So that is why I asked that question on this one. I wanted you all to see that. Um, that being said, seeing no one else in the queue, please open the ballot and record your vote. Seven yays, zero nays. By your actions, you've approved 2026-0265 as amended. Uh, next item is page six, item 10. That doesn't seem right to me. Let's see here. I'm on page six. 2026-0260. Got a motion and a second on the bill. Any discussion? Seeing none, open the ballot and record your vote. Six yays, zero nays. By your actions, you approve 2026-0260. Uh, this now takes us to Council Member Salem's bill, page nine, item 13, 2026-0268 on the amendment. Got his first motion and a second on the amendment. Can someone please explain the amendment? Through the chair to the committee, the amendment will remove the emergency language and correct some scrivener's errors. Seeing no one in the queue, all in favor of the amendment, say aye. Aye. Those opposed have the same right. The amendment carries. Got a motion and second on the bill as amended. Council Member Salem, Vice President, you recognize. Thank you, uh, Vice Chair. I just wanted to take a few minutes and, uh, because there's been a lot of information that's gone out there and I'm, I'm really doing some of this for those council members that were not here in 2019. I'm looking at a few of us that were, but there's a few here that were not. Um, back in, in, in the fall of 2019, the JEA sale was moving forward. Um, in November of 2019 at a TEU committee meeting that I will never forget, uh, Kyle Billy, the council auditor at the time, the one prior to Ms. Taylor, um, presented the performance unit plan or bonus plan to that committee and demonstrated roughly the $600 million in bonuses that could go to the leadership of JEA if the, uh, if the sale occurred at a roughly would eventually would be $1.2 billion. The community was outraged throughout this process. Um, uh, Nikki's passing out some documents for her. One of which that I wanted to bring to your attention, particularly with what's happened this morning is a letter from the civic council dated December 12th, 2019, where they are calling on the city council to get involved in this process. And, uh, because it was moving forward and, and we were the legislative body as they reference here that could possibly, um, impact this process. So I encourage you to take a look at that particularly, uh, with what came out this morning. In addition to that, I've passed out, um, some charter language from section 5.09. And I do want to read this into the record, the council or any duly appointed committee of the council may make investigations into the affairs of the consolidated government and the conduct of any department office or agency of the consolidated government. And for this purpose may subpoena witnesses, administer oaths, take testimony, and require the production of evidence. Very important to us. And, uh, council president Carrico initiate a special committee and we are following those guidelines to the T I should say. And, uh, so I will continue with that. So we have the ability to investigate and we are conducting an investigation. And I, so, so with that, I wanted to go through the recent timeline on this particular issue. This is not a sale of JEA by any means, but, but, uh, let me go back recently to the February board meeting when, uh, uh, board member Morales made a motion for a survey of some sort. Um, there was no second to that survey. Uh, I raised my hand later in that meeting to advocate if I would have been recognized to survey myself on a limited scale. Um, I was not recognized. So the council president soon after that meeting initiated the special committee that, uh, that I am chairing prior to me, uh, initiating that role, I met with the inspector general, um, one on the capacity issue, which has been discussed at length recently, the capacity, he did not have the, the bandwidth to do the work for the capacity issue and ask for the council auditors to get engaged. And I have worked with, uh, Mr. Fackler to get the council auditors, the information that they need, uh, through Regina Ross over the last several weeks, spent considerable time with Mr. Fackler to ensure the council auditors, because, uh, council auditors are not talking to Ms. Ross directly. Their questions are being submitted to Mr. Fackler. He brings the information back. It's a bit cumbersome, but it is working and they are making substantial progress in identifying the, how far this capacity issue goes back and the dollars that are owed. Uh, I also asked him about the, uh, the cultural issues that are going on in JEA. From that February board meeting, the board members insisted at that time that if employees had issues, they could go to the human resources, they could call the hotline, or they could call the inspector general. Several employees did call the inspector general. The inspector general is, is, is not responsible for those type of issues. He's more financial, uh, issues within the city government. So, um, we took that upon ourselves to, to investigate that. Um, soon thereafter, within three weeks, JEA then initiated, uh, uh, uh, an outside law firm to talk to employees about cultural issues within, within JEA. And they are presently performing a survey, uh, of, of some sort that was previously scheduled. That survey is going to all 2,200 employees. And it's sort of a temperature check. I have not seen the survey, but I believe it's a typical survey that you would see in a business to assess how things are going, so to speak. The survey referenced in this legislation is a very specific survey. It will be administered to the managers and above that work within the JEA headquarters. We've identified approximately 144 employees that meet that criteria. And they will be provided this survey. There'll be issue questions regarding the race issue and whether there are racial issues within JEA that have come forward, particularly to council member Pittman, uh, as well as we will get into other cultural issues. Um, and this particular company that we are hiring will, uh, we've talked to several times. Mr. Teal has been very helpful with that and we will design those questions and get those, give the employees an opportunity to, to respond to that survey on those particular issues in particular. Um, I think I will stop there, Mr. Mr. Vice Chair. So that is the purpose of the survey. One other point was it's not going to, uh, there's no dollars attached to this particular survey that has been speculated. Mr. Teal will be using dollars already in his budget to pay for the survey, which is a little over $9,000. And he is here. Council member Diamond is also here who has been very involved in the special committee and, uh, they can, they can jump in if they feel it's appropriate or the president for that matter. Thank you very much. I think, thank you, uh, Councilman Salem. Uh, we have one, two, three, four of the folks in the queue. We'll start with, uh, the those on this committee. Council member Amaro, are you recognized? Thank you, Mr. Chair. I, uh, uh, Selection Link is a, uh, very well-versed company in this field of employment. Um, don't have a problem with them. Don't have a problem with, uh, City Council using its authority to spend the money. Got a couple of questions about methodology. Um, the, uh, JEA is, uh, it's just stated is conducting, uh, uh, survey of its entire workforce, apparently, or close to its entire workforce. This appears to be specifically focused on 144 employees. And my question is, why would former employees be participants of this survey? First. Secondly, how do you reconcile the results, uh, of this survey with what the JEA may be doing? Um, and, and what is the real objective of, of us doing our own survey? Uh, so those are three questions, uh, for Mr. Salem, if he can answer. Okay. You're recognized, Councilman Salem. Thank you. Can we go through them one at a time? Can you repeat the first one? All right. So let's, let's try to figure this out. Um, just to make sure we keep the quorum. So, uh, Councilmember Amaro, if you want to just list them again. Okay. One, the first one, and then he'll answer. My focus was methodology. Um, why former employees? Okay. Number one. Can I answer that first? Sure. The former employees, several former employees have reached out to Mr. Thiel or Ms. Ross or even me, and I have committed that the former employees that are surveyed, that data will be separated from the active employees. So they, they won't be mixed. Um, so that we can give those employees, those ex-employees an opportunity to participate, but in no way, shape or form will it, uh, sway the data of the existing employees. No, thank you. So that's the first question. Second question is, and I want to, I want to make sure that we keep the quorum one from my own brain to kind of process everything. So when you ask the question, councilman saying, you know, I will recognize you because I want to process the question before you start it. So can you? Still on methodology. Okay. Um, the, the size of the survey, Mr. Salem stated, JA is doing 2200. This work by selection link is 144. How do you reconcile the two different results? You want to answer? Sure. It is my feeling and I respect the board and I respect the, the board, um, management of our authorities. What I see happening, we will hopefully get a substantial response and we will, as a committee, we will take a look at those results and they will, we will provide it to the, to the board of directors of JEA and allow them to assess it. I believe that is their responsibility. I, I don't, I'm not calling for anyone to any changes in management or anything like that. I want to provide the board, the information that I think they should have done at their February board meeting when they, I think, uh, did not act as they should have and ignored the, the motion of, uh, of, uh, board member Morales. And the final question you may have just answered. So is that the objective of this survey to, uh, uh, harness, glean information and then deliver to them? That is correct. Salem, you recognize. Yeah. I just want to make sure we don't get adversarial. You're all, you all both seem to be on the same page, but if this was adversarial, I don't want the crosstalk. So I want to make sure. Yeah. All right. We're good. I mean, clearly it's going to come back to Mr. Teal, who, who is coordinating the survey, uh, for the committee. I'm, uh, and, and I'm sure we'll look at it. It'll, I'm assuming it will become a public record at some point, but we will provide that to the board of JEA and allow them to compare those results, particularly with their own survey. But ours will be much more focused on the cultural issues, potential racial issues that we've heard about within JEA. I hope that answers your question. Council Member Mario, you're good. All right. Thank you. Next will be Council Member Boylan from the committee. And then we have Council Member Matt Carlucci and then Council Member Diamond in the queue afterwards. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to speak, uh, on behalf of this. I was well steeped in JEA, uh, back 19, 2019, 2020, uh, focused many months, not singularly, but with many other committee members and council members in the rewrite of article 21, JEA. In fact, and I should note too, that after months of deliberation, the, I don't know how many, what was it? 14 sections. I don't know how many pages, 40, 50 pages of the article 21 was unanimously approved by the city council. Emphatically, and stated in that article, and I quote for the record, JEA shall have full and independent authority to hire, transfer, promote, discipline, terminate, and evaluate employees engaged to provide any and all of the utility services for which it is responsible. This is another example of overreach. I do understand and appreciate we have investigative authority. We do on matters of policy, on matters of practice, but not on matters of personnel. And for us to step into this, we all know where we're in here. We, you know, this is just meant to be another example of redirection and putting attention where, uh, it doesn't belong. And I'm, I'm disappointed to see that we've gone down this route. Uh, 2,200 employees. It's not surprising. It's easy to find a handful or so who's going to be not happy with how things went or are going for them. To use that yet as another example of, uh, mismanagement, I think is, is unfortunate. I can't support this today, not because of the money, not because it's because of the principle. The idea that we have an authority that we put into place that we respect, that collectively with Mr. Dennis is part of that process. We changed, put a referendum out there to change the appointment process. So we as council members had a greater role in identifying those folks. We raised the bar in article 21 about the qualifications of those members of that board. So we we've given them the authority to do this. All we're going to be doing now is questioning that authority. If it happens here, where does it stop? Where does it stop? We know why this one's happening now. We need to stop it right here and right now. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, thank you, Councilman Boylan. Councilman Macalucci, you recognize. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I feel so strongly about this. I'm going to try to, um, I'm going to try to stay even keeled about this. Um, I don't want to rub anybody the wrong way, but I'm going to speak the truth as I know it from what I have researched and from my experience. Uh, what we're going through here is no 2019. It's just not. That was, uh, a policy of whether we were going to sell JEA and privatize it or not. That's not what this is. Not at all. Uh, we have the JEA doing their own internal investigation and bless you. Um, and they're looking into their employees and into their environment. Nobody has the biggest interest in getting a real grip on what's going on in their cultural environment and racist environment than the JEA does. They are determined to get that right. And in particular with the board members I have spoken to, um, then you've got the inspector general inspector general, according to the conversation he had with me 45 minutes after the press conference that was held, I don't know, on the city hall steps, which always makes for a good background. He didn't request that a special committee be put together and he said, I could repeat him on that. I asked him, sir, can, can I repeat you on that to the people, to the council and to the press? He said, sure. That's what I told him. All I need is the council auditors. That's what he said. Find me a Bible. I'll put my left hand over it. I'll put my right hand up in the air. The state attorney is doing a lot of inspecting on this. And I have to tell you, I think she's doing more than what we think. Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure she is. Um, and now we have a sick committee, which is basically duplicating a lot of what these other committees are doing or what these other investigative committees and are doing. I think we would be better positioned to let all of these investigatory agencies do their work and they'll get the information back to us. Then if we feel that the city council needs to take a look at some of this, that's when we probably have more of a leg to stand on, but we're interfering whether you want to, but I mean, we just are, and it's going to confuse matters. We already got too many. And now we got this, the state attorney general involved in it. Um, and what we're doing is in direct contrary, is directly contrary to our city charter, which actually made it stronger. Now the city charter is the city of Jacksonville's constitution that was formed for consolidated government. These authorities were meant to be independent because prior to consolidation, too much politics was getting in the way of the waterworks and the electric works and all the different agencies. It was getting involved in it. And that's why they, that's why they indicted 11 public and or appointed officials between 1966 and 1967. We need to stay out of it. Let them do their job that is in their lane. And when they're all done, if we think something hasn't been done correctly, that's when we might step in for oversight. I promise you, I understand the committee members of SIC are doing what they think is a good thing, but actually what they're doing is they're overstepping. I want to make one other comment. They may not think this, and I don't mean to be critical, but I have to call it the way I see it. Because I have a duty to do that when I put my hand on the oath office and on the Bible. I came to those, at least two of these committee meetings, never had a chance to speak. I had to wait two hours, and finally I gave up because I have a life. And one of those lives is State Farm, my business, my livelihood as well. And so I left. I didn't whine about it. I didn't complain. I just left. But we're basically having three people almost talking for 19 others. And as I listened, I could just tell the tone was already against the JEA board, and it was slanted in a way that I thought was dangerous. And in a way that just didn't, it didn't promote fairness. And I would have hated to have been on the other side. And I thought Ms. Mosier was grilled beyond the charge of this committee. We have to be careful. And I also found out that some of the rating agencies, and I know we hear a lot of people talk about rating agencies, but they are starting to raise their eyebrows. And when that happens, and we can't get the good ratings that we need, that will make rates go up. And oh, by the way, nobody's talked about what's going on in the Middle East and what's going on in this world right now, that's having an effect on rates. That's why this committee, you don't even have to say we're quitting or we're shutting it down, but I would at least pause it and let the processes go through that are being done by the proper committees. But we are not one of those proper committees. And let them complete it. And if after that, we don't feel it's been done, that let the council as a whole, not three people, let the council as a whole weigh in on it and see then if we need to do something. Folks, I just have to tell you, politely, but also institutionally, and somebody that knows consolidation here as well or better than anybody, we are out of our lane here. And if we want to wait till it's all done, then we can weigh in. But I got to tell you, I think the farther we get into it, the broader some of these investigations may become. I don't want to see that happen to us. There's been so much drama. And all of this has caused us to lose sight of the importance of the issues in our domain. And it just disappoints me. And it disappoints our constituents. And we can so much improve our stature to the citizens of this community. If we would say, we're going to take our foot off the pedal, and we're going to put it in park. And let's see the processes that are the actual processes that need to be in place, complete their job. And then we can have the final say if we want to. And that's what I would urge our council president to do. I don't suspect, well, council president, I think that would go a long ways towards healing a lot of wounds that are out there. There's a lot of people on pins and needles out there. And I have to tell you, I'm going to say one other thing, going back to 2019, I called out JEA as a scandal before anybody up here did, or back on that council. And I dare, I dare anybody to prove me wrong. I called it out. Before the election, I called it out. And I have friends over there at JEA. And I've heard from a lot of them. I've heard a lot of people talk about all the ones they've heard from. Well, I've never said that. But I can tell you, I have heard from a lot of them. And they have told me that, Ms. Carlucci, this is not right. This is not true. And some of the complaints are coming from some of the great members of one of the unions. They're fighting for a contract. And so this is perhaps a good time for them to be complaining. And I'm not sure that I wouldn't support them getting more money for their contract. Maybe I would, maybe I wouldn't. But that's not a part of this process. I urge you to listen to my heart, to my soul, to my experience. And you don't have to discontinue if you want to. But I would put it on pause and let these other processes take place by the agencies who are the ones that are tasked with this because it's in their lane. And then we can take an overall look when it's done. And it may take a while, because I think it's going to be broader than we all think up here. I hope you'll take that to heart before you get ready to vote. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Carlucci. That was all that was impressive. All that was just one sip of the Diet Coke. So well done. And you can get a second bite of the apple. No, no, it's committee work. You're absolutely fine. But I will say the list is added now. We were down to one when you started. Now we got a couple more in. Councilmember Diamond, you're up. All up by Councilmember Salem. Thank you, Mr. Freeman. So all right, you have to ask yourself the question, why is anybody ever opposed to getting to the truth? That is literally all investigative committees are supposed to do, to get to the truth, to bring in the sunshine. Anytime I see an effort to stop just asking questions, just getting it out in the sunshine, having people answer questions up there, I have to ask, what is the agenda? It is absolutely amazing to me. In 2019, we took it on the nose politically, because there was a Republican mayor with an entire conservative establishment. And we had to ask really hard questions about our friends to our friends. We jumped in and we did that work. I was proud to lead the investigation of JEA in 2019. And I do think the council at the time stopped a train that was out of control and saved JEA for all time. And now we've got a situation literally where JEA, our most prized asset, has been delicately set underneath the boot of their largest competitor with this combined cycle plant having no permit. And we're asking those questions, what is going to happen here? And they're like, don't ask these questions. You're out of your lane. This is overreach. Same people who literally wanted to do this investigation in 2019 call this overreach and out of our lane today. Literally flipping on their head exactly their stance before. So let's just go through first a few things. The charter absolutely allows us to do this investigation. In fact, one of the core legislative functions of any legislator is to do oversight on the money and the powers that they have. And that's what we're doing. We approve their budget. We have an oversight function. Our council rules literally list it out that we can do that with any of these independent agencies. Asking questions of an independent agency does not rob them of their independence. Asking questions of an independent agency does not rob them of their power. It simply asks questions, which is our job. We are elected to ask questions, to ask for the truth. There's absolutely no conflict with any investigations going on right now. You know why? Because the investigators have told me there is no conflict. I talked to the statewide prosecutor. He said, go at it. I've heard nothing from the state attorney saying we need to slow down. I've heard nothing from the OIG asking us to slow down. No one has said it. They can call me. My cell phone number is widely available. No one has asked us to slow down. And we're going to keep going. There's a BS thing that was put out there that this somehow enables people to try and sell JEA. We're never selling JEA. Using that fear of employees, about a sale of JEA to try and stop us asking questions of their executives is disgusting to me. This notion that the bond agencies are worried is a lie. It is simply not true. The bond agencies are literally providing information to every municipal bondholder across the country, every single municipality that has bonds, has local politics. This is not new. This is not original. We didn't even have bond changes during the nightmare of 2019. Certainly us asking a few good questions about what's going on over there is part of our purview. And the bonds are not going up. So again, what is the agenda to slow us down? What has changed between 2019 and today? I tell you exactly what's changed. You had a Republican mayor. Now you have a Democratic mayor. That's the only thing that's changed. Literally the only thing is a political effort to slow down simply asking questions. I love my colleague, Councilman Boylan. I will use your name, sir, because I have such deep respect for you. Maybe there's redirection going on in politics here, but not for me. I have no stomach for that kind of stuff. What I know for absolutely 100% sure is this isn't our purview. And I really, really care about the combined cycle plan. And I think that is a massive issue that we need to have oversight over. We need to ask those questions. It's literally the future of the entire organization. You're right. We did rewrite the charter so that JEA has control of its employees. And I'm not trying to hire or fire anybody. I'm not trying to promote anybody. Candidly, the toxic culture part of this investigation is the least interesting to me. But we do have a right to ask questions. I mean, we do. We can ask questions. We can do surveys. We can do all that stuff. That's not the same as saying, hey, Vicki Cavey, you got to rehire Kurt Wilson. We're not doing that. Right? We're just saying we wanted to ask questions. All right. So then the question is, what have we already discovered? Right? And this thing is just getting going. One, we already had testimony up here that we have senior executives making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year being paid to do nothing. Literally paid to do nothing. If that's all we found out, I would say that's worth it. We're paying people to do nothing. Two, we are now under the boot of FPL if they want to use their political control to stop the PSE from giving us the permission to build a combined cycle plan. If that doesn't chill your spine, then nothing will. In addition to that, we're looking at $100 million probably, possibly, pardon me, not charged to customers. And we have at the same time of not charging big, fancy, rich customers, people who literally pay their electric bill in quarters are having their rates go up. So for the poor rate payers versus these rich ones, we need to ask those questions also. People are actually hurt when JEA raises rates. And they're doing it on all our constituents. There was a request that we put the pause button. Absolutely not. If anything, put our foot on the gas. Let's help stop these rates from going up. Let's just get truth. Just truth. Just ask questions and get answers. That's what I would like from the sick. That's what I think the sick is doing. Look, we got 10 votes for this money. It's going to pass. There's probably 10 votes to keep this thing going through a year if we have to. And so I'm fully supportive of just asking questions and doing our job. I was elected by 86% of the vote in the last election. The first four years, I spent almost all of it doing investigations. My constituent said, yes, keep going. Keep doing it. I wrote more good government legislation than anyone in the history of this body. And I'm going to continue to do good government and oversight and will not be slowed down by the civic council or anybody else. We're going to do it. Thank you. We have several others that have now joined. For the first time, Council Member Gay, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Through the chair to Council Member Salem, the purpose of this survey is to find out the issues with personnel and you could clarify that one more time of the purpose of this survey. Thank you, Chair, Vice Chair. The purpose of this survey is we have, as I indicated, identified 144 people that work in that building that are managers above that we feel like have had interaction with Ms. Cavey. One of the questions we're going to ask through this survey is, do they interact with Ms. Cavey? So we can separate those that do versus those that don't. And we can get a feel if there is a toxic workplace with those that do interact with her. I'm not drawing any conclusions, but that's the purpose of the survey. And then obviously to gather that information and provide it to the board because from what, for everything I've heard about their survey, it's more of a check-in type survey. It will not be nearly as specific as ours in regard to the leadership. Okay. Thank you. Through the chair, the Council Member Salem. So the findings will be giving to JEA. There will not be an action by the Council. It will be collecting this data and giving it to JEA. Absolutely. And I've said that from the very beginning. Okay. That's not our role. Where Council Member Carlucci and I agree, that is the board's role is to take that information and do with it what they feel like is appropriate. Okay. Thank you. Through the chair. So what I'm just hearing a lot of items being discussed here that are really not what's presented to us here that we're going to be voting on that combined cycle plant, the past sale of the JEA to where a lot of this is events that could or have taken place in the past where this is not really what's in front of us to be able to vote on. And what I'm looking at where to vote on is in any situation, any circumstance, there's nothing wrong with getting more information. To do us, to look at this situation with employees, it should be an open door. There's no, we feel there's no, for instance, that we feel there's no problem. Come and look. We're an open book. And that's, that's where I feel like what this should be is an open book to be able to go in to get the information to confirm what has or has not happened. Yes, there's going to be disgruntled employees. That's always going to happen. There's going to be satisfied employees. So it's basically get this information. I don't see any harm with this moving outside of the charter. With, with what I'm hearing and what's going to be done with this information collected and turned over to the JEA, we're not taking action on their employees. That is for them to evaluate and apply to the best possible way that they need to run their departments and their organization. So I just feel like we were just getting a lot of distorted information here to bring this back into the true purpose of what we're doing. So thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Councilmember Gay. I'm almost wishing I would have taken this up at the end now because we've got a lot of folks waiting for their bills to go through and, and this list just keeps growing. Now, all three of you are on here for the second bite of the apple. I'm not going to put a clock on, but, um, we have all four of you now are on here for a second bite of the apple and you, Councilmember Salem, all five of you are now on here for the second bite. Uh, no, Councilmember White, first bite of the apple. You're recognized. Thank you, through the chair. I have a question for Dr. Salem, if you'd allow. Is this your belief in the committee's belief that our independent survey would make it more comfortable possibly for the JEA employees to respond? There might be some mistrust in-house survey, and is that your belief that there's a better chance that we'll get a true picture of what their thoughts are? Councilmember, do you want to answer that? Okay. Yes, I do believe that. Uh, I think the employees are, are very leery of JEA surveys. They've been burned in the past, as I've been told, where the actual results individually were, were, were, were made public, so to speak. And we're going to do everything we can through the mechanism that I'm working with Mr. Thiel on to, to, uh, allow the employees to respond completely separate from JEA. Thank you. Thank you for, uh, allowing that, uh, Mr. Freeman. Thank you. All righty. So now we're getting ready to go back. Kickoff is at six o'clock tonight, so I got plenty of time. So, uh, we'll start with, uh, do you want to go at the end still? Are you, all right, Councilmember Salem, you're recognized. And Councilmember Joe Carlucci, uh, your, your queue is working. I just want to make sure I'm not missing you, correct? All right, 10-4. Just one thing I, I wanted to respond to, and that is the interference of other agencies. Um, as soon as I heard, uh, the state attorney was involved in, in an investigation at JEA, I called the JEA within an hour of hearing that. And I was told by the senior leadership of the state attorney's office, go forward. If there's anything that comes up, we've got your number. As soon as the attorney general got engaged, I picked up the phone, used, uh, uh, and called the attorney general's lead investigator who called me right back. And he, he indicated, go forward. There's no reason your investigation should, should not go forward. I would not be going, I would not be a part of anything if I thought we were interfering in any other law enforcement investigation. And if they called me tomorrow and said, you need to stop or stay away from this particular subject, I absolutely would. But, but so that part of it bothers me when, when someone suggests that, that this investigation is interfering in any shape or form. In fact, they almost, in my opinion, encouraged us to go forward. In fact, there have been investigators from those offices in the audience at some of our hearings, which tells me they're watching us and may be learning information from us. So I, and number two, I travel around town. I interact with a lot of constituents. Um, I have a lot of people telling me, please continue. We feel like there might be something going on over there and please keep digging and find out the truth. And that's what I intend to do with my colleagues. Thank you, vice chair. Uh, thank you so much. Uh, with the sticking with the body, uh, council member Amaro, you're up next and then Boylan and then Carlucci. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm, I'm going to be quick. Um, personally, uh, I don't think the committee is necessary, but, uh, it's within our purview as a body and that horse is out the barn. And so I'm not going to beat that horse. Uh, my focus is primarily on the survey on the survey. And I asked the question about methodology, uh, because I'm concerned that when you're looking for empirical evidence, quantitative, qualitative information, I don't believe you can get that from former employees who may be carrying a grudge, uh, which may produce something negative that weighs the outcome. And so that's why my question about why are we talking to former employees? If we want to collect true data that can give us the information that we're looking for, which should be fair and objective and let the truth fall where it was made. Uh, that's my only concern, the methodology. And, and so I'd like to see former employees removed from it because I, I, I really think that that can taint the outcome. Uh, thank you. And I have a question on that. I'll, and I, for the first time through the chair, to the chair, I am the chair, uh, council member Salem, uh, on this survey, um, will there be a delineation between former employees and current? I mean, it seems like that's just a simple question to ask. And then the data can then kind of veer off from that point. I've said this several times, but apparently I haven't made myself clear. There, there are about 15, Mr. Teal, I'm looking at you around 15, around 15 past employees that have contacted us. And I've made it perfectly clear. We will allow them to perform a survey, but in no shape or form will that data be included in the existing employees? They have, they have asked to perform, to participate. And I feel like we ought to allow them to do something. So we're going to allow them to complete a survey, but that data will be completely separate from the employees, the active employees working there. Uh, thank you. That, that answered my question. Cause I thought that was a very good, good point that he brought up. And I loved how you use quantitative and qualitative. Took me back to my statistics days in college, which was a long time ago. Um, council member, Matt Carlucci, you're recognized. Oh, Boylan. I'm so sorry. I'm pretty qualitative myself once in a while, at least. I, again, in principle, I think I made my point very clear. I'm not comfortable with us in the overreach that we're doing here. And I do appreciate the fact that we do have a responsibility to do investigative. And there are some matters that this committee, this committee is taking up that I think is appropriate. My question with respect to this one, notwithstanding, I'm in, in my line of work, I would suggest that we make this a resolution, encouraging the JAA board to do an independent apart from that, but be that as it may, it's probably not going to happen because the answer, that question was answered. There are people, I love how we all say, I've got these people I've talked to. We all have them. It's really kind of sad that we're using speculation and, you know, conjecture by a lot of people for motivation for the work that we're doing. But through the chair, to Mr. Salem. So we've got, what, 144 people, give or take, that's going to be surveyed? Mr. Salem, you recognize. I asked, just so you understand, I asked Ms. Brooks for a list of employees that work in that building that we felt like interact with Ms. Cavey. There were more than 144, but we cut it off at the title of manager and above. We felt like. That's good. That's all I just need to know. Yes. So you get 144 surveys returned. Is it going to be the role of the committee to digest those surveys and make a determination if 30% of those were dissatisfied or not comfortable with the situation? One, Mr. Councilmember Romero's questions with respect to methodology. I would be comfortable, I guess, in lieu of passing a resolution to encourage them to do it independent. But if we are going to do it, let's just turn the results over to them. So we're not making a recommendation that they utilize the information, that they make a determination whether they want to use it or not. Can you speak to whether or not, what is the threshold that we take action based upon the results of the survey? Thank you. And I think earlier you said that we are just going to turn the information over that we gather to the board. Is that correct, Councilmember? I want to make sure that's clear. Yes, sure. Mike. We are using an expert. Understood. And they have indicated that they will analyze the data and are happy to make a presentation to an entity of some sort, whether that's the committee or the JEA board. My goal is to get this information in front of the board, additional information that they're going to get from their own survey. And keep in mind, the board, when the survey came up, could not get a second to discuss it at the February board meeting. Sometimes we forget that. And it wasn't until this committee got started that they hired this outside law firm. Those are just facts. There's no speculation there. But Councilmember Boylan, that's the intent of this, is to get this information to the board with some type of analysis by the entity who we're paying. And they have told us they will make a presentation. It's not my, I did surveys when I was in academics, but it's been, it's been 40 years since I did this. Okay. So I want the experts to analyze the data. Councilmember Boylan, you still have the floor. Thank you, sir. Uh, Michelle, uh, does, does the ordinance stipulate specifically that the results of this survey will be turned over to the board of JEA. Through the chair to Councilmember Boylan. So the legislation reads that once the survey has been finalized and approved by the city, Selection Link Inc. will disseminate said survey and collect data through its online platform. Upon completion of the survey, Selection Link Inc. will provide an overall report and will conduct at least one executive presentation of the data found and survey results focusing on key performance indicators to be determined by the city. If it doesn't say who that presentation is going, if we're going to move down this route, if we're using the character and quality of the intent of the introducer of this ordinance, I would recommend that we amend, reflect the fact that the results will be turned over directly to the JEA board. If that's the intent, to provide them a resource to make a determination whether they've got some issues or whether they have to deal with management issues, personnel issues, let them make that determination and for us not to sift through that. So I will turn around and ask my colleague, Councilman Salem, if you would be comfortable in specifying specifically the results of their presentation we made to the board of JEA. Councilmember Salem, you're recognized. I'll even say that the presentation that they've committed to do is presented to the JEA board. That's what I'm asking for. Yes. Yes. They've they've committed to one presentation and if it makes you more comfortable to support this. Well, one second, one second. I think we have an amendment on the floor. It needs a second. I'm offering that as an amendment. So can I get a second, please? So we got an amendment on the floor and a second. Do we need to restate what that amendment is or or is everyone clear what we're discussing? Through the chair of the committee, my understanding of the Boylan amendment is that it would amend the legislation to read that they will provide at least one executive presentation to the JEA board? No, to one presentation to the JEA board. No, at least. Understood. The findings of the survey. So we have a motion on the Boylan bill to have one presentation to the JEA board seconded by Councilmember Gay. Councilmember Salem, how do you, you were on, I interrupted you, so go ahead and finish. As I, I think I said that the, and I'm looking at Mr. Till, they have committed to one presentation to an entity of some sort, a, a verbal presentation. I don't know if we got into zoom or, or in person or whatever it may be, but I'm happy that that one presentation be made to the JEA board. And I'm going to say this at 3, 3 20, I'm going to table this and get everyone else out of here if we don't start landing a plane. So I'm not going to put anybody on the clock, but I'm just going to table it to get everyone that's sitting here going through it out. Mr. Till, because now we're bringing, we're bringing witnesses up to talk and I have two more in here. So I have 3 17. So if this plane doesn't land by 3 25, it will be tabled and we will be moving to the rest of our agenda and then we'll come back and finish it. So we have Mr. Till, you had a question from Councilman Salem. Please feel free to state your name, address. Jason Till, City Council, Legislative Council. So through the chair to the committee. So the contract authorizes one executive presentation. It also authorizes additional work that can be done at $350 an hour. So if the sick committee were to desire an additional presentation to it, it's, it is possible that the current contract would allow that. But the current contract allows one executive presentation, but does not dictate to whom that presentation is given. So does that answer your question, Councilman Boylan? You have, we have an amendment out right now in a second. I thought, I tried to make it as clear as I could. There's one presentation that's made to the JEA board. It comes out of the hands of this committee and out of this council. All we're doing is providing them a resource of the survey and that the JEA board is the only one who's going to see this presentation and have an opportunity to speak to it. Michelle, do you want to respond to that? I mean, to me, it sounds like we can determine. I'm just trying to make sure it doesn't come back to the council for interpretation or the committee for interpretation. I don't necessarily know if that's possible, to be honest with you. In the government in sunshine, when information is out, it's out, it's out. And 19 of us understood. All right, so we're going to go ahead and take a vote on it. Are you on the amendment, Mr. Carlucci? All right, Mr. Carlucci, you recognize on the boiling amendment. Thank you. I want to clarify, but what I'm thinking of hearing is we get our, uh, uh, presuming we do our, um, uh, survey and we get it back and we figure out what the survey says in general, I guess. Okay. Nope. But, but we're going to make a presentation to the JEA board with that. No, they will. They'll make that presentation. The selection link at the experts. Okay. Yeah. Do a survey for us. Yes, sir. Doesn't matter. Yes, sir. Our survey. Got it. And they're collecting it up and they're going to make the presentation. Now, this is what concerns me. If their survey goes back completely different from maybe JEA survey. Okay. That's the, that's the confusion. That's the lack of credibility that could be on us or them. So, uh, uh, uh, hold on. Go ahead. We're listening. Now, what do we have to do then? That's two out of three. This is why this is the concern that I have. And this is the concern that the JEA has. I believe they have, look, they've got a very credible board of which we have some appointments on and the mayor has some appointments on. We need to stick to our knitting and let them stick to their knitting. Now, once they conclude their interviews and they give a report, and if we see some real flaws in it, then we can come back and take a look at that perhaps. But if you send two in and they happen to be completely different, and because maybe the questions were different in some sort of a way, then it may be an apples versus oranges. I got to tell you, I see red flags all over that. And I just, that's why I'm concerned about it. I will tell you that that, that has potential for some, there's some potential for real problems with that. Look, you know, if, if I own a business myself and I was told you've got some problems with, uh, you've got some problems with your employees, Mr. Carlucci, and I did a survey on mine. And then somebody wanted to come in and do surveys of my employees for me. Then I got two surveys to look at. And somebody was going to come in and judge those two surveys. Which one are they going to believe? I, I, I just cannot impress upon this committee. That is not the way to go. And, and my good friend, council member Boylan, that's a nice sounding compromise, but that could lead to two totally different conclusions because there may be different sets of questions. Uh, this committee already sounds like it's slanted in the wrong direction and I'm sorry, but that's the way it sounds clearly when I listen to the meetings. Yes, sir. We're, we're, we're wandering down the wrong path. We're on the amendment still, correct? Yes, we are. And the wrong path is passing this amendment and having a second whole different set of questions that we're going to let somebody make a presentation to, but they're going to be the conclusions from the questions that are put together by this group. Okay. I guess by three or four people. Yes, sir. And that doesn't reflect the whole council. And I'm not comfortable with that. And I, I don't think anybody else should be either. All right. Seeing no one else in the queue, all in favor of the Boylan amendment, say aye. Those opposed have the same right. The amendment carries. Got a motion and a second on the bill as amended. Seeing no one in the queue, please open about, uh, we will roll them up. So we're on the bill as now twice amended, which has been rolled into one council member Carlucci. And I'm going to, I'm going to put the clock on this one now, unfortunately, because we've been over an hour. That's okay. No worries. But I just want to be on the record on this. Three minutes, please. Go ahead. I want to be on the record. So the, uh, let me find my paper where it was. So, um, I'm asking for the proper agencies to do the work. Now, I want to say this and all due respect to my friend, Councilman Salem. I called the state attorney's office also. And I'm going to tell you what they told me was a lot different from what they told you, sir. You can laugh all you want to, but I know them better than you do. Um, I heard, uh, going back to the 2020 sick committee and one of our council members said that he was the head of that sick committee. He stepped down from that sick committee, uh, pretty quickly and you can go back and check the record, but he did. Uh, other charges, uh, the, what this will do in the way we're going about it, it's going to discourage other members from our business and civic community from wanting to volunteer for their services in these capacities. The, um, as I understand it, the, uh, JEA just completed a, um, a survey of their employees. So now we're going to do, they're going to do another one. State attorney may come to these sick committees, but just remember if they're coming to these sick committees, it may not just be listening to who you think they're listening to. It may be listening to some of the folks up here too. Be careful what you ask for. We're heading down the wrong direction with this. I'm so sorry that we are, but look, I'm only one vote, but I gave warnings out about so many things up here. And, um, uh, thank you trying to be polite, but I'll take it up again. City. No, that works. And we've hit my threshold of time. And I got one seconds. I got 19 seconds. That was the quickest 19. It was pretty quick. Uh, cause I'm about to table it. Uh, council member gave, we're at three 26 and I'm, I'm going to table it. If you, if you go beyond like two or three minutes, cause we, yes, sir. I understand where everyone's at. Go ahead. Council member. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be quick. Uh, the, uh, the, the comment about three, three members directing, uh, all this, uh, it, it starts with the three on the committee. Then it comes to the seven, six on this, this committee, and then it'll go to full council for, for the full vote. So I look at it as, as we had, you, you've got, we're following the right protocol where we're going step by step. And I appreciate Councilman Boylan's amendment, uh, to help clarify and get this moving forward. So I want to make that. Uh, thank you, Mr. Gay and, and Councilmember Boylan. I do too appreciate you trying to, uh, find a way to land the plane. Um, Councilman Salem, I'm going to trust my colleagues. I've been a part of this process and as a president and had to create a sick committee, um, is a challenge, but I have done it. Um, so I know Mr. President, it's never an easiest decision to make. Um, I do understand that to the point of three, but it does end in all of our laps. We all carry this burden, this responsibility. Um, and last I'm going to say is, is my trust right now is in my colleagues here, um, more so than putting outside in other hands. Um, and that's just going off of my personal experience that I'm dealing with with government right now. I'm just not in a good place. So as long as something stays in our purview, I feel like the people of Jacksonville are going to be served because I can, I'll go back to JSEP right now. I'm going to kick this horse so many times. JSEP, I go back to public service grants. We've made votes on this council. We've given up our freedom and we've been told, Hey, if we don't choose to do it that way, we're not doing it. So I'm not one right now that's willing to try to give up any of our purview because of how I'm being treated. And if anybody sees that it's different, then again, we can agree to disagree. So with that being said, it's been moved and seconded. It's been rolled into one. Please open the ballot and record your vote. Six yays, one nay. By your actions, you approve 2026-0268 as amended. Um, is Councilman Diamond still here? Did he leave? All right. Cause he asked for us to take his bill up, but I don't, I don't see it. All right. So this takes us back to the top of the agenda, to the agenda. We've already talked about item one's been deferred to, um, we'll go to our next action item, which will be item nine, uh, 2026-0258. We have a neighborhood's amendment. We're looking for a motion and a second. We got a motion and a second on neighborhoods amendment. Can someone please explain it? Through the chair to the committee, the neighborhoods amendment will revise the qualifications for the renew Arlington CRA advisory board members to require the business owner member to own a business located within council district one rather than within a one mile radius of the CRA boundary. And second, require the citizen members to live within council district one rather than within three miles of the CRA boundary and east and south of the river. And we'll also correct some scrivener's errors. Thank you. Bringing it back to the committee. All in favor of the neighborhood's amendment, say aye. Aye. Those opposed to the same right, the amendment carries. We've got a motion and a second on the bill as amended. Um, seeing any discussion. I do have one question. Um, I saw, and I discussed this in the pre-agenda meeting that, uh, the CRA for district 10 council member Pittman was not here. Um, and so this was sick. It was taken off of the block. Um, I was the former district council person for 10, and I can tell you that when I first brought up the CRA conversation back in 2018 or 19, it was a, it was a difficult process to get started because to find individuals that lived within that old, now this is before redistricting, that old area was a challenge and that's why we expanded it. So I think that district 10 would benefit by adding it to this as well. I'm not quite sure of what a motion or what amendment would need to be added to add it, but now you're expanding district 10 because they're already bringing people from outside of it to serve in the district 10 CRA. And, and I'm pretty confident that the district council member as a former district 10 council person, I don't, I'm pretty confident that they would not be upset with that. Um, is that a motion to add that in? Uh, to the chair, just to clarify, so we're talking about King's hotel crossing and you're talking about category four. Okay. What one are you talking about? What is what we talked about in office this period prior to this meeting? Yeah. So if you want to amend the legislation to change category four to be, um, do you want to leave the live work or own a business within district 10 is what you're thinking? I just want the same purview, the same scope that we're giving one, the Orleans CRA, if we're able to give district 10 the same scope, I know that the district has changed, but are we able to give them the same? And I see council member tomorrow shaking his head. No. Uh, council member tomorrow, you want to add questions to that? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, what we discovered this morning was that district 10 covers two other city council districts. Well, I'm sorry, the CRA King's suit tail crossing covers three district 10 district 12 and district nine. And therefore it was rather impossible to use the same application that we're now using for district one. Um, and Karen, uh, Nasralla is at the, uh, roster. I, I, I get that. I guess where I'm confused a little bit on the, the CRA was when we say, Oh, district one, that's Arlington area. I'm thinking district one, as in going across the river, old school district one. And that is no longer the case. That's district two. That's across the river. Uh, I'm saying going up the ocean way. That's two. And so you're that, they're not in the Arlington CRA. I'm tracking with you. Okay. I'm completely good. Yeah. Uh, seeing no one else in the queue. Uh, let's, oh, it's been moved and probably a second. Let's open the ballot and record your vote. I got you now. Thank you. Seven yays, zero nays. By your actions, you're approved 2026-0258. Takes us to our next action item, which will be item 12 on page 8, 2026-0267. We got a motion and a second on the amendment. Can someone please explain the amendment? Through the chair to the committee, the amendment will remove the waiver of code section 745-105-J10, which relates to noticing requirements. This waiver is not necessary because there's no affected property owners to notice, uh, no addressed parcels on this street. All right. Seeing no one in the queue, all in favor of the amendment, say aye. Those opposed have the same right. The amendment carries. Got a motion and a second on the bill as amended. Seeing no one in the queue, please open the ballot, record your vote. Seven yays, zero nays. By actions, you've approved 2026-0267 as amendment, as amended. Takes us to our next action item, which is item 14, 2026-0270. We got a motion and a second on the resolution. Uh, seeing no one in the queue, please open the ballot, record your vote. Six yays, one nay. By actions, you've approved 2026-0270. Takes us to our next action item, which is item 16, 2026-0288 on the amendment. Got a motion and a second on the amendment. Can someone please explain the amendment? Through the chair to the committee. Uh, we have a technical amendment on this one. I'll go through that first and, and pause and let you consider that. Uh, the technical amendment will update the maximum page limit for the grant application to 17 pages. This is just a result of the changes that are being made to the application contents for the opioid grants. We'll correct some terminology in the bill and correct some scrivener's errors. All right. Seeing no one in the queue, all in favor of the amendment, say aye. Aye. Those opposed have the same right. The amendment carries. Got a motion and second on the bill as amended. Seeing no one in the queue, please open the ballot, record your vote. Seven yays, zero nays. By actions, you've approved 2026-0288 as amended. Uh, next action item will be, oh, Ms. Carey, you're recognized. Uh, Mr. Chair, we had an auditor recommended amendment on that last bill, but if you'd like, we could just address that in finance tomorrow. This bill will be up in finance. Sure. I think they'd rather have it in finance. Got it. So next action item is item 35 on page 18. 2026-0349 has been moved and properly seconded. Seeing no one in the queue, please open the ballot and record your vote. Seven yays, zero nays. By actions, you've approved 2026-0349. Takes us to our next action item. Oh, Council President. I'm sorry. You're recognized. Uh, thank you, Mr. Vice Chair. Appreciate you letting me come down here and get my sea legs back. Uh, you know, I'm going to have to be back on committees in a couple months, so I just want to come do a whole meeting. But in doing so, I think I voted on item 16, which is marked for me to abstain from. Did we vote on 16? So I would kindly ask someone to move to reconsider that so I can clean up the record and abstain from that. Second. So we have a motion in a second on the reconsideration. You got to put me in the right posture in the air again. We got to redo the whole thing, but it's a, it's a verbal vote on the reconsideration. All in favor of reconsidering, please say aye. Aye. Those opposed have the same right. All right. We got a motion in a second on the amendment. Will we please explain the amendment? Well, before you do that, can I abstain before we get into the action of the bill? Sure. Yes. Go ahead, Council President. Thank you for recognizing me. I would like to abstain from 2026-0288 as this is an opioid settlement proceeds grant. And I always abstain from these due to my employment at the Boys and Girls Clubs in Northeast Florida, who frequently applies and has been awarded dollars in the past from these funds so that we can help teach kids to stay away from drugs. So I'll abstain from this on the record. Thank you for the reconsideration. No problem. Can we please explain the amendment? Through the chair to the committee, the technical amendment will update the maximum page limit for grant applications to 17 pages. We'll correct some terminology within the bill and correct some scrivener's errors. All right. Seeing no one else in the queue, all in favor of the amendment, say aye. Aye. Those opposed have the same right. The amendment carries. A motion in a second on the bill as amended. Seeing no one in the queue, please open the ballot and record your vote. Six yays, zero nays, one abstention. By your actions, you approve 2026-0288 as amended. You can thank Council Member Carlucci for running the clock out for you. Item 45, 2026-0361. I got a motion to second on the bill. Seeing no one in the queue, please open the ballot and record your vote. Seven yays, zero nays. By your actions, you approve 2026-0361. The rest have been seconded. I did have one last ask while I have Mr. Dennis here on item 46. I'm just trying to get ahead of the curve now, so I won't have to do it. This is on second reading. It is an ordinance for $5.2 million from the General Operating Fund for the Youth Empowerment Special Committee. We moved $200,000 over into that. Will that be something that the administration will support? They supported the Council President's initiative of $5 million. It ended up placing the budget. We just added $200,000 to it. I want to make sure that that $200,000 is not going to hold up the Council President's initiative. Through the Chair, if we can clarify a statement that you made earlier about the $200,000, I think that was 2026-249 where you said the administration was holding up. First, I want to handle 2026-0362. Do you all support the $200,000 being added to the $5 million? I'll get to your point in a minute, but I have the Council President here. It's his initiative. Sure. We added $200,000 that came from public service grants. This one came from ITD. This was the $200,000 that the kids was holding in color. The same students that the mayor took a picture with the first day of school in the atrium, had the big signs up. I still have it. For some reason, it could not be done this time. Those dollars were reappropriated by myself so that we could use it in this fiscal year to the Youth at Works Committee, which is a committee focusing on ages 16-24, students from many backgrounds, many of them challenged. I hope it aligns with the agenda, but I'm just asking is this something that I don't want the $200,000 to hold up the President's initiative is where I'm trying to make sure I land. Through the Chair and to the committee, as you know, you all have this bill on the floor, and you will make a decision whether to appropriate or not. Once it is appropriated, the administration will take the appropriate steps in following out laws and things like that. However, I want to go back to the misinformation that you said that the administration is holding up. You said the administration is holding up the $200,000 that you appropriated before, which is untrue. You can stop right there, Mr. Dennis. Time out. We're not going to roll into a lengthy discussion and debate here. So thank you so much for answering my question. 5.2 million. Council President, you've heard that it's not going to hold up yours. Are there any other questions on this body? None. All right. So now, Mr. Dennis, I will afford you an opportunity, but we're not going to go badgering back and forth. I heard something about misinformation, and now that'll be a debate that you and I get into that I'm sure my colleagues don't have much of an interest for. Well, through the Chair, no disrespect, Councilman, but you put on the record that the administration was holding up money for small businesses. So what I put on the record was public service grants. There was $200,000 that this body approved. For small businesses. And that, nope, for public service grants. And I worked with Ms. Figueroa, I worked with Dr. Hervey, and then we were told that it could not be done in this, that it needed to be carried over, that it couldn't be done to August or September. No explanation other than capacity. That's what we were told. This is all on the record. So therefore, I then took the $200,000 and moved it to JSEBs, microgrants, and was found, and was told the Sunday before it went to committee that you all were not going to support it. And then in committee, it was stated that it did not align with the mayor's agenda. And then it was stated from the day, from the podium, that it was, that microgrants were inefficient and non-impactful. And I had to then bring to the record that now microgrants, because of my good friend, Councilmember Salem, are $25,000, no longer $9,000. And so therefore, $25,000, $200,000 could be eight, or it could just be one. So capacity could not be the excuse. So that is where we got to. The JSEB advisory board took it up in their latest meeting. There will be a resolution coming from that board saying that they want those dollars to be used. So that is when I say it held up. It was held up, told us it cannot be used in this fiscal year for the public service grants. That's where that $200,000 came from. Thank you. Through the chair, do I have the floor to speak, or if not? And you may, you can respond to the truth. I want to make sure that the facts are out there. So thank you, Councilman. And again, just like you say, you can go to the record in the last committee meeting. You said that the mayor and the administration is holding up for kids. So, you know what? So we can hit pause there. So the JSEB microgrants program. No, no, no, no. The JSEB microgrant program. If you don't want to get the truth out. Please, please stop the mic. Please cut his mic off. The JSEB microgrant program, we had two students come and speak to us, is what I said. One is Cameron, who has a financial literacy program. He's a range student. He has a book that he sells. He also wants to do work with the Boys and Girls Club and others. They presented, there was another young lady that presented on AI. Those were the ones that we said, I said, were holding up for kids. Because the microgrant, when I heard them speak to the advisory board, and I challenge anyone, I have them, you can go get the minutes. You will see, that is what I was referring to. So whatever narrative you're trying to create, or whatever you're trying to correct, I wish the government affairs team would get cohesive and meet with me. Because what I get is, Mr. Delaney speaking, he's only been in my office one time in three years. I have Ms. Noor speaking, she calls, she'll come, she's been to my job, and now I have you speaking, and you've never been in my office to meet on issues. So I don't like this, trying to create this debate, this discussion back and forth when we can have this face-to-face in an office setting. So with that being said, this meeting is adjourned.