Okay. Welcome, everyone, to the October 23rd Financial Audit and Oversight Select Committee focused on JTA. Welcome especially to the team members from JTA. And let's please get started by introductions, starting with Mr. Russell. Brandon Russell, Council Research. Mary Stifopoulos, Office of General Counsel. Philip Peterson, Council Order's Office. Brian Parks, Council Order's Office. Ron Salem, Group 2 at Large. Chris Miller, At Large, Group 5. Joe Carlucci, District 5. Roy Diamond, District 13. And Nick Howland, At Large, Group 3. The Beaches. All right. Thank you all very much. What I'd like to do, as it says on the agenda here, is start off with any of the follow-up matters that we left open from the last meeting, and please feel free to add to this. I want to make sure anything we asked for or anything we wanted to discuss or address that we've actually gone back and made sure, especially the committee members or the president, and I consider him, because he's a liaison to JTA, Council Member Diamond, as about as close to a committee member as you can get here. If there's anything we have, and I have a list of things that I pulled from the last meeting, but I'm going to kind of leave that open. If any of you have some things you want to follow up with, especially JTA members who are here, if you haven't received some of the things that you were looking for or asked about, now would be the time if you want to bring those things up. So we're going to start out with past President Salem to recognize. Thank you, Chair. Through the Chair to Mr. Peterson, you have a, I think you have an update on the COVID dollars and how much they received and how it was used within the JTA budget. Do you have a handout or anything? I do not have a handout. I was just going to talk through it. Okay. It's nothing sexy, for lack of a better word. They received a little over $135 million in COVID dollars, and that was scattered over a five-year time period. And I will caveat that with we pulled this information from their annual comprehensive financial reports, which the most recent one as far as grant reporting is as of September 30, 2024. Can I stop? You said over how many years? I didn't quite hear that. So there are expenditures of COVID dollars over a five-year time period. Okay. The most recent year, which is the last year we have, ending September 30, 2024, there was only $150,000. So I would expect to see that be next to zero in the 9-30-25 grant reporting when that is issued by JTA. So $135 million, and then where it went, based on our review, it either went to operations or was used for PAYGO on capital projects. There was no uptick in their budgets in the early years in which it started rolling in. Obviously, 2020 was the first year. The budget for 2020, 2021, and even kind of 2022, there was no significant increase in their budgets for those years. In 2023, there was kind of the first large jump year over year. So based on that, based on what's included in their annual report, those COVID dollars just went to fund normal operations and or went to reserves and or was used for capital projects. May I continue? Can you, through the chair to Mr. Peterson, can you separate it out? Because if it went towards PAYGO, that's great from my standpoint. But if it went towards operations, my concern would be, did we mask some operational shortfalls that would have started possibly a lot earlier if not for the COVID dollars? Through the chair to Council Member Salem, so the expenses associated with those dollars would have been in their normal annual reporting to you as a council, to us as the auditors via their quarterly summary. So there's a line item in their budget, and I believe it's called federal, state, and local grants. That shows up in each of their entities, the bus, Skyway, CTC, ferry, and then also their general fund. And so the dollars would have been reported in those budgets as revenue coming in and then would have either been spent on operations or fall into reserves as excess or surpluses for the year. The point I'm trying to, this seemed to have, you said, ended in September of 24, was the last time you saw something in their budget. And it seems to me a lot of the issues we've seen started around that time. With the deficits we saw in the 25, 26, and 26, 27 budgets, is that coincidental, or is that because these dollars began to disappear? Through the chair, if I can. So one thing that's kind of very important to keep in mind, I don't think it's necessarily because of that disappearing, to answer that question quickly. But when we're dealing with city grants, we account for those completely separate, and that is what you're used to, where we do that in another fund, where the revenue comes in and expenses. With JTA, their grants, when they're spending it on operations, so like when we went through that slides last week, when it showed the operational expenditures, the operational expenditures that were funded with grants were included as expenditures. So there wasn't, like, they were doing $40 million more that were separately not showing up in what we've seen, and so once the grant dollars went away, they picked up. That's not the case here. So when we were showing you operational expenditures, so for like 21, there was $120 million, and they received $70 million almost of COVID-related dollars, there's not like a separate piece that that's going into. It's included there. So I don't think it's a situation of that. Now, maybe they spent money on capital that then created other problems down the road, or we used reserves up that would have been used later, but that's not because of operationally that there was expenses kind of being hidden, I would say, at that point in time, based on what we've seen. And they also have a single audit done specifically related to that, related to the federal and the state dollars that they received. So hopefully we would have seen anything on that. Okay. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Well, that would get to one of my questions that was related to that on how they spent their federal dollars, and I think that audit that you just mentioned in your last comment may be where I'll get an answer to that question. But the point, as past President Salem mentioned, from my perspective, is how were those dollars applied? Were they used for the intended purpose? Or were they offset, lumped into the overall operations dollars and then used as they chose to use them? And like you said, when that occurs, could possibly mask other concerns that were there. But would that audit that you spoke of do those assessments so we know, and in my question, were those federal dollars used as intended? Did they meet the criteria that was established for the issuance of that grant, or did they go for some other purposes where they had other shortfalls? To the Chair, so the audits would indicate whether or not they were in compliance with the terms of the grant. And my recollection is that there were no findings during this period or this last four or five years that would have said that they spent the dollars in a manner in which they should not have spent them. As it relates to your question on the federal grant dollars, separate from the COVID dollars, we kind of saw the same thing, where the dollars, they come in, and they can vary year over year, but they fund their normal operations and or they fund their capital. They have a little bit of leeway when it comes to the different federal grants that they receive and what they can be used for. And I believe Mr. Barnes has spoken about where they maybe used grant dollars for more capital purposes in the past, and they are now shifting a little bit more towards operational dollars in the current year's budget. But we saw nothing where they were using those dollars for something they shouldn't have. Now, we are relying on their external auditors for that because otherwise you would need to go in and see the specific transactions associated with all of those dollar spending. We have not done that. I will report we are in working with JTA to get access to their financial system. It looks like we're heading in a good direction on that and hope to have that solved up either later today or early next week. But as to exact expenditures of those grant dollars, you would need to be in their financial system to make that determination. Okay. Thank you very much. I want to go next to JTA, whoever's here, Mr. Ferguson, or whomever. I had asked a couple times now for a check and then to come back to us on fiduciary responsibilities. Do you have documents for the executives at JTA that they agree to or sign oaths, board members as well? Are there documents that can be pointed to? It doesn't have to be with specific names associated with the documents they've signed. But I just want to get a feel because I've done some research on other city-related independent organizations to get a feel for what they do. But given what we're talking about, and it is, in my opinion, understanding fiduciary responsibilities and executing those fiduciary responsibilities on the part of leadership, I wanted to see what JTA has done to codify those responsibilities. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Cleveland Ferguson, JTA. As state employees, I apologize. I'm sorry. I'm having a hard time here. Could we turn up his volume if that mic is on? Yes, and I'm under the weather, so I apologize. Okay, sorry about that. Thank you. Cleveland Ferguson, JTA. As state employees, we're all governed by Chapter 112 Florida statutes. The board members are required to sign oaths as it relates to the Chapter 112. There is a segment of the procurement and leadership team that are required to file the Form 1s. Beyond that, the general counsel provides ethics training for the board members and the city's ethics office. Every year provides ethics training under Chapter 112 for the executive leaders as well as the board, typically around the board retreat. Beyond our code of ethics and our code of conduct, there is nothing else that anyone actually signs. Do you have a board policy manual or something to that effect that captures all this, that each one of the board members agrees to or that spells out those responsibilities? Through the chair, I believe so, and we can get that. That would be great. That would be helpful. That's where I was trying to go with this because, you know, and right now I'm just looking, it just happens to be what I have in my hand, but it's JEAs, and since their well-publicized challenges they had in the past, they've done a lot in this regard, and so I use them as one of my examples just to do some digging into what they've done, and there are a lot of specifics as it pertains directly to fiduciary responsibilities, and I think that's critical. The training is great, but if it's spelled out and everyone knows what they're signing up for, and then it's a matter of have they lived up to those responsibilities when there's any checking. So I would appreciate copies of anything along those lines, board policy manual, oaths, other things. Again, I don't need the actual specific names as saying I acknowledge I received my copy of my manual or that I agree to comply with what pertains to me in this manual or oath, just the overall one that's current, overall documents that are currently in force. Yes, sir. All right, thank you. We'll go back to Pastor President Salem, and then I'll come back to a couple other comments. Thank you. One additional piece of information that I requested from Mr. Peterson two or three days ago, I know he doesn't have it today, is you all may recall earlier this year that JTA went through some cost-cutting because they realized that they had a problem. One was in regard to the paratransit system. And they had some significant changes to that system that I think the council rejected, essentially. But I've asked the auditors to determine if those changes would have been put into place, what were the cost savings? And number two, I've asked for cost savings in regard to the furloughs that have been undergoing because clearly they realized there was a problem and they put those two things in place. I want to know what those two would have added up to and how it compares to the deficit they actually had. So I don't think we're going to get that today, but that would, to me, that would be important to understand because somebody recognized there was a problem. Now, the question is, did they recognize the significance of the problem and what was their thought process in putting those things in place versus maybe making additional cuts to their budget? And number two, I did ask for CFOs over the last two years. And I think it involves three people from what I can determine. I'd like to have the dates when they were CFO because if we're not going to see the CEO for a period of time, once we capture some of this financial information, and to me, those would be people that I think we should talk to, probably in the order that they served. Thank you. Yeah, I was going to bring this up later, but good timing, so I'll comment right now. My intent is, and I've started this process, is to reach out to, as Pastor President Salem just commented, the CFOs who served from 2023 to the current time. And, you know, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but that, by my calculations, would include Greg Hayes, Raj, and I'm sorry if I pronounced his name incorrectly, Srinath, S-R-I-N-A-T-H, and then Heather Abora. I believe she was in interim status during that period after Mr. Srinath left the organization. So those are the three that I'm reaching out to, trying to contact Dan. And, at one of the next two meetings, would like to have, I'm going to offer, extend a request for them to come to this committee meeting, so we may be able to go through some of the things we've already gone through with the auditors, and with JTA, Mr. Barnes, and be able to then, from their perspective, through their eyes, in their capacity, during those time periods, hear from them on how we got to where we are right now, what led up to this. So I certainly would like to have those three CFOs, and I'm also reaching out to the board chairs for that period. And again, by my calculations, please correct me if I'm wrong, that would be Ms. Debbie Buckland and Mr. Andre Wallace. And then we've already reached out to the past CEO, Mr. Knapp Ford. I received a response, a written response, from him yesterday, acknowledging that request. And he was not able to join us today, and he said he would be in communications with us, and we would be able to come up with a future date for him to be able to come and meet with us, and have a good exchange with the members and visitors of this committee. So those are the three main groups that I'm looking at as far as bringing in. There will also be a period, because of the charge, and I think that will be probably after these individuals, but there will be a meeting where we want to address any of the whistleblower, whistleblower-related issues or concerns as well, and to make sure we're complying with those elements of the charge given by the council president. So with that, I did want to go back to the auditors. There was one thing I had asked about, and we had asked, I think also Council Member Salem had brought this up, about projections. And there was a question on what other independent authorities do regarding normal financial projections. There was a comment made during a couple of our sessions that there was a period where there wasn't projections. There weren't projections offered to the board, but there were financial updates, but not projections. During that period that you all went over in detail, just wanted to see what other organizations associated with the city are doing. Were you able to determine that? Thank you. Yes, sir. Through the chair of the committee. So we'll walk through each of the independent agencies. JEA does provide projections to their board. They provide multi-year forecasts on the various elements that impact them. So I think in an ideal situation, they're kind of meeting what we would hope and expect out of an agency. For JAA, they provide various financial metrics to their board, year-over-year data, year-to-date data. And then their CFO makes verbal comments to the board at their meetings on the state of where they are in relation to budget. And they are slightly different in that they're more of a landlord, given that their operations are mainly funded by the airlines. And then tied to parking, emplainments that come in and out, parking will go down as emplainments go down. Parking revenue will increase as emplainments increase. But for what I would think of as their true airport operations, the airlines are heavily involved in that. When their boards are not meeting, their CFO supplies a kind of a financial picture of where they are that month. And we were provided examples of that in that it does include projections on where they are as it relates to their state in that current year. Moving to JPA, they provide some of the same financial data with year-over-year, month, you know, comparing this month to the month in last year, the year-to-date data. And then their CFO makes comments at their board meetings on things that they are experiencing negatively or positively. They also look at projections in the month of June. So when there's three to four months left in the year, and in preparation for next year's budget, they take a significant look at the projections for the current year. And then JPA is also a little different in that over half of their revenue are tied up in long-term minimum annual guarantees with the tenants of their facilities. So they won't necessarily see large swings in an individual year. So it's a little bit different of an element. All right. Thank you very much. I also wanted to mention, I believe, I don't think we previously announced, but Council Member Jimmy Peluso and past President Matt Carlucci have joined us. Okay, we'll now go, if there's nothing else, to go over from the last meeting or from previous meetings. We'll now go to the next item on your agenda, which is JTA presentation on fiscal year 26-27, and which includes revisiting the approved JTA budget. And so, okay, Mr. Barnes, I guess you're the guy, huh? Yes, Randall Barnes, Chief Financial Officer for JTA. I think I am the guy for this one. Okay, great. Thank you very much. For this one. Yes, sir. Well, to the chair and the committee, thank you for the opportunity to come before you again. As mentioned, there are, and I think I'm going to cover the next three items on the agenda, if that's okay. I have those in mind. Yes, please do. And that's associated with your presentation. We have that queued up. Yes. All right. Thank you. I'm first going to start off with the FY27 budget overview. And all of you would have seen this slide before, but I think it's worth repeating. The JTA board approved our FY27 operating budget of $139.2 million earlier this year. And it was approved by the city council last month. And again, during the budget hearing process, the council auditors had many, many questions and comments about our expense assumptions. But they did indicate that our revenue assumptions were reasonable. And we did do a comprehensive review of the existing cost commitments and confirm that they were correct. It, it, it did not, did not seem like we would be able to, uh, execute our, our delivery of services given the expense budget that was, that were in the assumptions. Uh, so, um, back in, I just used, reused the slide. It was more than a few weeks ago, but we, we did take action to, to right size the organization to, to ensure that we would be able to live within our budget and, and cover the line of credit. And perhaps have some contingency for, um, any unexpected cost or expect an expect or lower than expected revenues. So what I'm showing you here is the budget that was approved. This is the approved budget and, uh, hot off the press FY26 actuals. And these are unaudited actuals. So keep that in mind. Um, but this through September fiscal year end, September 30th. And you can see that on the revenue side, um, we built our FY27 budget in a way that is largely in line with FY26 actuals. And so that's, that confirms that, uh, two things. One that, that we have built a revenue budget that, that makes sense. And it's also a little conservative, uh, overall, particularly on the sales tax assumption. Because we did end up receiving, um, higher sales tax and, and CTT revenues than, than, uh, or we, we budgeted less, uh, sales tax and CTT revenues than we actually received in fiscal year 26. So that's the conservative nature, uh, the posture that we're in. Um, we're going to continue to maximize the, the grant funding that, that, that we will receive this year. So we, we are, our meeting who already started meetings to, to develop a strategy to make sure we maximize our grant funding. And obviously we'll be continuing to monitor the impact of schedule changes on our passenger fares. Although, as you can see, the passenger fare revenues, uh, as a rep, you know, rather small impact to our revenue budget. On the expense side, uh, this slide says. Mr. Barnes, if I may. Sure. Um, would you, would you, uh, shed some light on the non-transportation revenue differences there? What's, what's the difference there? Everything else seems relatively close, as you mentioned, based off the actuals. Sure. Um, and, and one thing to consider, um, is that the, um, I apologize. The, but, uh, I think that had to, has to do with an expected, uh, real estate sale. Uh, but I would have to come back to you on that. Okay. Just curious. That's all. Yeah, please go ahead. Oops. Okay. This slide is a, is a comparison of our fiscal year 27 budget to FY 26 actuals on the operating expenses. So, um, again, the fiscal year 27 budget, this is the approved budget, uh, in comparison to what actually happened in fiscal year 26. And you can see the large delta, uh, on the bottom line. Uh, and again, I'm highlighting on the right hand side, the, the, when the council auditors were going through their analysis and seeing the budget that we put together, it was pretty obvious that based on what had already happened, uh, through June, which is what they were primarily working off of, or a, it may be even sooner than that, that it was going to be very difficult for J JTA to, uh, continue operations as normal and still make the budget that had been approved. Um, so, and I, I, on the right, I have comments about the budget being largely developed. What I would say is improperly, you know, not fully considering the costs to provide services, um, without taking any decisive action to cut costs, then the budget expenses would have been wildly, uh, insufficient. Um, and the primary, you know, the primary areas of focus are labor costs and our services budget. Um, I'm sorry, I, I just wanted to, um, ask for a little clarification. When you made the comment, budget was largely developed improperly without fully considering all costs to provide services. Um, could you give it a little more specific there, please? Sure, sure. So as I understand it, obviously I was not here when the budget was developed, but the process has been the different departments would submit, um, their, their non-labor related budgets to the budget team. So the team that reported to my office, um, and the, my office would take the, that information and instead of reaching out to each individual division and instead of, uh, fine tuning the, the costs that are needed to provide services, they would simply make cuts sort of indiscriminately across the board to make sure it matched with the revenue, with the revenue expected. Uh, that was one of the first things when I, when I joined JTA that, that was sort of shocking to me. Uh, the budget had already been approved by the board and so we knew what the guardrails were for where we needed to be, but not enough had been done to actually fit within that budget. When, when you say they, it appeared they indiscriminately, you know, made them match. So multiple parts of the organization, um, were doing that in what was submitted? No, I think it was just the budget team. And I, and I don't know all the details, but, but basically they, they looked at actuals to date, uh, looked at historical information, sort of did a pro rata approach on line items, and just cut it back to make sure it fit within the budget. Okay, so not on, not on the submissions from the, the other outside departments, but within the finance department itself. Yes sir, that's correct. All right, we're gonna, someone, we got a couple people in the queue. If you could put a pin in where you're gonna go there. We have council president Howland. You recognize? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, Randall, thank you for your, uh, testimony here. I understand you weren't there when that budget was prepared, but you said the budget team specifically made changes line item by line item to expenses that they were provided from the departments in order to make sure they corresponded and matched with revenue lines. What, who was, like, what titles were on this budget team? Uh, the, the budget team were people that would have reported to my, my team. And, uh, I don't know the specific titles, manager, analyst, things like that. Uh, you know, I'm not aware of, of who approved or, you know, reviewed or anything like that. The final result of it. Uh, I don't know that. Uh, but there were people that would have been on my team or the CFO's office's team. And through the chair, if I may, you have significant experience both in the city's finance department, and then up in Atlanta, have you, I understand that finance departments writ large will often, you know, just do some numbers to make sure they can produce a good budget and make some changes. Uh, by your experience, is this a generally accepted practice of budgeting? And through the chair to council member Howland, no. I mean, it's a, developing a budget is a collaborative relationship between the finance organization and all other organizations or departments of an organization. So, it needs to be a collaborative thing and, and a good understanding of what it really takes to provide the services. If, if that doesn't happen, then you're, you're just setting yourself up for a failure. Thank you. And a couple more questions. Do you have an idea of high level, um, what the quantity and millions would have been for some of these changes in order to match up the expenses provided to the budget team to the revenue? I, I think I have a slide that will address that in a moment. Okay. To give you some idea of it. That's correct. And when we get to that slide, well, we can determine if that was a material, um, change that was responsible for this, um, misallocation of budget and, and improper budgeting. I'm sure. Sure. When we get to that. Okay. Before I go over to Pastor, Pastor President Salem, I did want to kind of ask a follow on to what the council president just asked. I'm assuming you still have the original department submission documents that were given before the budget office started massaging for lack of a, um, better term, those numbers. So you probably will, you probably do know exactly what, what came in to the office versus what came out of it. Yeah. To the chair. I think we have that information. I mean, I don't have it committed to memory and I'm not even sure. Okay. No, I understand. I'm not even sure I've seen it at that level. Uh, okay. So, but I think we do have it. Okay. Thank you. Uh, we'll go next past president Salem. You recognize. Thank you, chair. My line of questioning is very similar to council president Howland's. The, the ultimate question is all that information came to the CFO, correct? And the CFO ultimately approved all those changes and is responsible for sort of checking off on the budget. Is that, is that a fair statement? Yeah. Through the chair to council member Salem. That's what I would expect. Yes. Okay. So clearly those are the people we need to speak to. Thank you. But then obviously there are leaders who approve those things and review what was changed versus what they put in. So there, it, it obviously goes way beyond that, um, to all leaders, um, involved in the process. Okay. We'll, we'll go next to council. Uh, excuse me, council member diamond, you recognize. Uh, thank you, Mr. Chair through the chair to Randall. Okay. So you, I've heard this from folks inside JTA before that they didn't have any control over their budget. Like typically another agency that have control over the budget and said, someone just came down and said, this is your budget. We're cutting this for cutting that. We're doing whatever we want and you're going to like it. Um, tracking that that's not a collaborative way or even a common sensible way. The big risk of course, is that if your budget is say $3 million and you got cut to one and you're still spending over a million dollars. Now you've got these weird gaps. Cause you were going to do the work anyways. Is that fair to say? Like that's one of the risks. Uh, through the chair to council member diamond. Uh, through the chair to council member diamond. Yeah. That's certainly one of the risks. I mean, if, if you, if you have expenses that you haven't accounted for in your budget, you have to take action to stop the expenses or you have to find some other revenue or something. Uh, so, uh, through the chair to Randall, uh, Mr. Barnes, then did JTA have in place a mechanism to monitor when people were exceeding or projecting to exceed their kind of arbitrarily cut budget? Um, through the chair to council member diamond, I think there are or were reports. Uh, I don't know. It's, it's kind of like you've seen some of the reporting that we've had, uh, to the board and others. I'm not sure. And I haven't done an analysis of how accurate the reports were or anything like that or who received them. I mean, so yeah. Yeah. And, and again, and just to reiterate what council president said, you, you know, you weren't there. And so I don't want you to try to have to recreate in your head what you think happens, uh, to be fair. But I think one of the, the big, how do we go wrong questions is, was the reporting accurate? And if someone was getting a report, would it have given them a yellow or red flag, right? To say, Hey, there's a problem. Cause I agree. This is not how you build a budget. That's completely irrational, but let's just say that you're going to be draconian CFO. That's your budget deal with it. Okay, fine. But then did you have the other side? Are you checking back in? Are we now having good reports to see if we're in trouble? And is this mean we're just over budget regardless? And we looked good on paper in front of city council on our board, but it wasn't reality, right? Cause if you're giving us or your board a budget and it's not honest and you know it, that's a problem. So then I have another question for Randall. There's all these other entities I've seen associated with JTA. These kind of like other not JTA corporate forums. Are you familiar with what I'm talking about? I am vaguely. I'm not an expert, but what's your question? Through the chair and I don't know if you're addressing it today. I didn't see it in here. That's why this is as good a time as any while we're drilling down on the stuff that looks bad. Um, have you seen the, if, if, if we've got this kind of arbitrary way of doing a budget and just, you know, this is how we make the numbers look good. Have you seen the use of an, another entity to kind of shift funds or expenses around revenues or expenses around to make the budget look balanced or the projections look correct? Uh, to the chair, through the chair to council member. No, I have not seen anything like that. And I think everything is consolidated. So it's not that there are different organizations that, that money is shifting around between it's, it's all consolidated. Okay. So, and then just through the chair, cause this is important one. Like you feel like even if there were kind of like shifts around, you've got consolidated budgets, there's nothing outside of the JTA budget in your opinion, that's not being reported or is kind of like hanging out there. No, not to my knowledge at all. Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you. I have a quick question from past president Salem, and then I'll go to, uh, council member Carlucci. He's been waiting for a while. Thank you. Thank you, chair. Through the chair to Mr. Barnes, the accounts receivable issue where we've got a bunch of bills that have not been paid. My experience and the entities that I ran, if it wasn't paid, it's not reflected on the P and L. And I assume that's the case here. Is that correct? Yes, sir. That's correct. That would be shown on the balance sheet. Okay. Were those unpaid bills in some way accounted for at the end of the year or what was it just out there? Was it reflected on the P and L and therefore mass made this situation worse? Uh, through the chair of a council member Salem, certainly they're in, they are shown in the annual reports. So the financial reports at the end of the year that are audited, uh, I'm not sure to what degree they were shared periodically throughout the year, uh, with, with the leadership team or others. Uh, you know, certainly at some point there was, um, reviewing of the payables, uh, the, the balance got significantly large and we had a number of unpaid invoices and vendors were calling and things like that. Uh, so at some point that was something that was folk on, you know, a focus. But, um, in terms of masking it, there, I don't think there was any masking it. I just don't know that it was reported regularly at board meetings. Thank you. Thank you, chair. Thank you. We'll go next to past president Carlucci. You recognize? Thank you. Uh, on the side real quick, Mr. Chair, yesterday I called you and I, uh, in a notice meeting. I apologize to you and everybody's committee for pushing you to the limits. I should have done that. God bless you. Well, I appreciate that. Very kind of you. Thank you very much. Uh, it's, it's past us. Thank you. Well, I know, but you got a job to do as chair. I respect the rules and I push those and I take responsibility and I ask your apology and thank you for accepting. Um, with that said, thank you very much. You're a gentleman. Now I want to say something on this. We are spinning our wheels here and I have supported, uh, Mr. Nat Ford over and over. I've been to the Navy where they are experimenting with these, uh, uh, autonomous vehicles. I appreciate and I respect everybody on the JTA staff. Every one of them. And I've gone out of my way to respect them and to support them. And I just got to tell you, we are not going to get to the answers we need until Mr. Nat Ford steps up and works with his group and comes before this committee and answers some tough questions. Because when we ask questions, the questions are like, well, we think we're not sure we're trying enough of that. And the people are getting exhausted over this. And I believe the one man and I respect him and I like him always have, you know, I have nothing but great relationships subpoena or no subpoena. He shouldn't need a subpoena. I think he's a good man. He may have tripped up. I trip up. We all trip up. But I want this. Mr. Barnes, I am so glad that you were over there. And the team that he has, I have confidence in them. Great confidence. But the missing piece here is Mr. Ford and whether I'll pay for his gas if he's already over there to come back here. But he needs to be where you are, Mr. Barnes. He needs to be the one answering the questions, Mr. Chair, and through the chair. I've heard the comments by Councilman Diamond. And I think he's been very measured. And I think he's been very kind in the way that he has made these same requests. So I'm kind of tagging behind him like a caboose. But I've been out of town. But he is right on this one. We are not going to get to where we need to be until we hear from the man where the buck stops on his desk. And I think it is beyond a shame. It is a neglect of duty to a city that has paid him hundreds of thousands of dollars for so many years, and he can't come up and answer a few darn questions. I think we have a subpoena. I don't know if it's been issued to him. I read something where he said he'll get to us when he can. Uh-uh. No. When he needed me, I was there. When he asked me to come somewhere, I came. We get paid, like, $40-something thousand dollars a year. I haven't had a raise, and I can't tell you how long. That's okay. I do this because I love this city. Mr. Chair, I'm probably over my time, and if I am, cut me off, and I'll stop. But I just have to tell you, I have always been supportive of our authorities and other executive directors. But in this case, it's beyond the pale. It's the straw that's broken the camel's back. And our citizens deserve to hear from the head man, the CEO. He's got the answers. He knows what's happened. And if he made some mistakes, I'll be the first to forgive him, and let's move on and fix this thing. But we can't fix what we don't know exactly what broke it. I do know one thing. We have got a cure in place with Mr. Barnes, because we all respect Mr. Barnes. I do. But we've got to know exactly what the wounds were, what caused them, so we can go in there, like in the operating room, and repair them. So, Mr. Chair, anything that you can do and what our council president can do to get him right there and start answering our questions, we will be polite. We will be respectful, but I think he needs to respect us in knowing that we have got to have answers so that we can begin to put this to rest, and our city can be, we can bring some calmness and some unity back, and they can have the confidence we've got this under control. Thank you for my time. Okay. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. And along those lines, and it's good for everyone else, I think this is a good time for Council President Howland to speak to that process as far as the, if you will, sir, the process of the subpoena and where we are right now. Absolutely, Mr. Chair. The Finance Committee voted to issue a subpoena, a testimony subpoena from Mr. Ford on Tuesday. That subpoena was delivered by JSO at his home yesterday morning at 8.47 a.m. Mr. Ford has agreed to provide testimony, and we're working with him right now to find a time to do that. Now, general counsel has confirmed that that testimony can be provided either in person or virtually. If it's done virtually, he'd be sworn in with a notary at his side in Dallas, and he could appear right here, and we can ask him questions, or he could be back and we can do it in person. We don't want to hinder him, but we want the information from him, so we'll work it out collaboratively with him. Thanks. Excuse me. Thank you very much. And I think along those same lines, Council Member Diamond, you recognize? Yeah, I just want to make sure. I'm always, like, it's the lawyer in me to be exactly right. So, yeah, I was told yesterday morning that Mr. Ford was served. I think that service was proper. Like, I think that's done. And so he's under a subpoena. We can talk about this at the Finance Committee in a minute. So he's, like, just currently under a subpoena. But I want to be clear about communications between me and Mr. Ford. That was done, like, kind of, like, through intermediaries because he was unavailable to chat with me. So I just want to be clear. He hasn't, what we have from him, like, from him is the letter. So I just want to make sure that everybody's on the same page. Thank you. Thank you. We'll go next to Council Member Peluso. You're recognized. Thank you, Chair. Thank you for being here, Randall. I will say I, myself, and Council Member Diamond, of all people, the two of us are pretty aligned on JTA from the very beginning. Nothing spelled right. Nothing spelled right about Nat. And I'm glad that he's hopefully going to answer the subpoena. But I think the man fancied himself an innovator. And look what that innovation got us. Has Fitch ratings gone down for the JTA? Through the Chair to Council Member Peluso. I actually have a slide on the ratings. Yeah. If we could put a pin in that. He does have a slide at the end of his presentation to address that. Is that okay? It is. That's fine. There is something to that. But I did want to ask a question. I know that you hadn't been there nearly as long. This might have been more for Cleve. If you wouldn't mind coming up, I just have a quick question. I assume that you were in board meetings over the past several years with Nat and with the team. Through the Chair to Council Member Peluso, yes. During those board meetings, were these financial reports, quarterly financial reports, provided to the board? Through the Chair, which quarterly financial reports? I want to be very clear. Understood. Actually, I guess that's a question for you. What kind of financial reports were presented to the board on a regular basis? Through the Chair to Council Member Peluso, there were month-to-date financial reports and year-to-date financial reports. Reports on procurements, memberships, sponsorships, reports on fuel, hedging, and fair box recovery, as I recall. Do you believe those financial reports were forthright and properly reflected where spending and where assets were for the organization that you guys presented to the board? Through the Chair to Council Member Peluso, with your question, I believe everything, perhaps except for assets, because there were no, I don't believe any balance sheet related reports, but the month-to-date, year-to-date, and the other reports that I just articulated are the ones that I believe from my seat were proper. They were proper. They were proper. So the board did seem pretty, they were in the know about where the status of the JTA was at that time. Do you feel comfortable with that? Through the Chair to Council Member Peluso, as it relates to those very specific reports of information, I believe, to the best of my knowledge, those particular reports were accurate. So those particular reports? Yes. All right. But other items that maybe should have been relayed to the board might not necessarily have been, and I suppose that's for us to really determine, but I think you get the line of question I'm getting at. I think I'm wondering if the board was given not enough information to realize how terrible things were going at JTA. And I know you don't need to answer that if you don't want to. Well, through the Chair, I will say as an executive leadership team member here, it certainly gives me, and I don't want to go too far, but I'm a frustrated member of this leadership team. And what I want to make sure that we're able to do is to deliver the services and the responsibilities that we're required to deliver in the very best way possible. So if we don't have the information to be able to do that, that makes our jobs that much more difficult to do. Well, if you're frustrated, imagine how we are up here and the folks trying to use the bus system. I appreciate your answers. Thank you. Thank you both. And we can continue. I apologize, Chair. All right. Thank you. We'll go. Did you? Okay. We'll go back to Mr. Barnes. I know you felt you'd never hear this from me, but if we could continue with your presentation. Thank you. Absolutely. So this is another slide that I just wanted to share again. Most of you should have seen this, but it talks about the things that we have taken and things that are in progress. So we did make contract and service changes and have now taken action to become a smaller organization with the reduction in force of approximately 200 employees. Also, we have passenger service ending on Skyway November 1st or 2nd. I forget what day exactly, but the NAVI will run through the end of the year, and we are pausing those services, not abandoning the assets. And we'll continue to keep maintaining them as we work with our federal and state partners to work through any issues around that. And then beginning November 2nd, there are going to be, we are moving to a modified Saturday schedule. And so that is the, that is really the impact to our, to our services. Mr. Barnes, to your smaller organization bullet there, were there any executive team members who were, who were released in that 200 employees number that's listed there or any costs associated with executive team members modified as part of this process? Yes, there were executive team members and vice presidents that were, that were impacted by the reduction in force. And were they in the finance department mainly area, you know, in your, in your area or other areas as well? Both in, in my area and other areas. Okay. All right. Thank you. That's come up a few times. People have asked and we didn't have the details. I just wanted to, without going into, into the specifics, just wanted to bring that up. Okay. Thank you. We'll go to the next, next slide, please. Okay. So this, so this view is, is basically showing you what the fiscal year 27 budget that was approved and then what I'm calling our, our current working budget. And this is, as we have, you know, gone through the process of, that should have been done back when the budget was created to truly understand the costs across all of our different categories that would be important for us to maintain services. You can see that we are, are, have right sized, the right sizing that we undertook is allowing us to make sure we have all the dollars of the 139.2 in the right spots. We are still in the process of reviewing all of these and making sure we have it in place. The important reason for, for that is we, we need, we want to make sure that we, you know, a limit, you know, first of all, from a reporting standpoint, if you're tracking certain costs, you want to make sure you're reporting off of a budget that makes sense. So you don't constantly have a variance that doesn't make sense because you just put the budget in wrong. Uh, and then secondly, it's, it's purely from a standpoint of, are we, are we able, you know, if we do have any issues, what do we need to do in order to, uh, correct those issues? And also to eliminate the, the work of doing, uh, the, the trend, the, the work of doing a budget, uh, movement during the year. I mean, that can be, uh, uh, type a lot of your operational time. So this is kind of a, the working budget is sort of, it's where we are now. And, and the approved budget, as you can see is, is, is different, but both are within the constraints of the 139.2. The important note is that the working budget is, is real. And, uh, the approved budget was, was fictional is, is how I would, would call it. And so this slide, the next slide, I think is going to answer the question council member Howland asked. If not, we can talk more about it, but it, it, it does illustrate the, what I would call the actuals fiscal year 26 actuals would kind of illustrate our, our cost basis throughout the year of fiscal year 26. And the working budget is an illustration of, of, uh, what we have to live within, uh, in fiscal year 27. So it's about a $42 million difference. Uh, and that kind of, that $42 million represents the actions that we had to take at the end of September in order to right size the organization. Uh, so I thought this was illustrative for you, but these are fiscal year 26 actuals again, unaudited, but, uh, sure. Sure. Yes, please. Mr. President, you recognize. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, Mr. Barnes, the, um, for clarity, then the, the, your new working budget, uh, of salaries and wages reflecting a reduction of 24 million, 859 on the salaries and wages lines associated with the 200, um, roughly 200 layoffs that you did. Yes, sir. That's correct. And then, uh, services, the 13 to seven nine is associated with, uh, um, pausing Navi and Skyway and reducing some bus routes to Saturday hours. Yeah, that's correct. And part of that, part of that impact is also in the salaries and wages because there are people allocated to that. Okay. And then finally, the other direct operating costs of, uh, 2.6 million there. What is that? That's a good question. I have to do some more research on exactly what was tied up in that, in that, uh, in those actuals, but, um, I will have to get back to you on that. Okay. But largely the, the actions that you took last month are, uh, reducing the $40 million shortfall between, um, from actuals and the current working budget now. Correct. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Just very quick. Just because I heard about the Navi and how we're suspending service and also the Skyway. Both of those are obviously federally funded in many ways. Are we going to run afoul the federal government? Any of that stuff? Is there any sort of, you can only suspend it for a certain amount of time? I'll let, uh, Mr. Ferguson speak to that. Through the chair, uh, to the council member, we're in continuing discussions with our federal regulators. Uh, with that, I, I did, uh, have a meeting with them again, uh, earlier this week, uh, to let them know. There are, uh, very specific guidelines, uh, in the code of the federal register that, uh, we have to follow. Uh, and we intend to follow those. And at the same time, uh, these cuts that we, um, identified as the, uh, new management team are, are going to occur. Uh, so it's, uh, well, I won't get into the weaves of the, the CFR, but yes, we are currently in the, um, proper posture, uh, to be able to do what we need to do in order to realize these savings and expenses. I understand. And I would just encourage you to send that CFR or, or that's, you know, circulator, whatever it is that you guys, uh, have from the feds. Just to let us know how much we're really on the hook for, for the Navi and the Skyway and what the feds may come back to ask us for at a later date, uh, or ever. Um, but just, I think that's worth discussion for this body. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, please go ahead, Mr. Barnes. Okay. Uh, this slide is, is just an update on our current, currently ongoing activities related to the budget. So we have, we have the budget loaded in our system and that's, you know, it's already fiscal year 27. So we are continuing to operate. So we have to have a budget in our system. We do have our budget controls turned on. So there is no opportunity for transactions to occur that might be outside the normal limits of, of the budget. And that means from a, at a cost class and account level, it will stop activity that can't, that is not captured within the budget. Um, we are continuing to fine tune this working budget. So we are, like I mentioned a minute ago, we are, we're going through it with a fine tooth comb on each individual cost class and fund level to make sure the allocations are correct. Um, and then as I mentioned, this will reduce the need for manual budget adjustments throughout the year. So we want to eliminate as much of that as possible, uh, given, you know, you don't want to do that anyway, but also we're very lean on staff. And so operationally for my team, that's, that's, uh, something that we need to do. Uh, once we have finished this, we will upload the finalized working budget, replace what we have in there now. And, uh, which we expect to happen in the next few weeks, because, uh, we want to be able to start reporting to the board at the next board, at the November board meeting, um, uh, actual budget to actual variances for the fiscal year 27. Obviously our next board meeting is next, next week. And we'll be reporting our fiscal year end numbers at that board meeting, but the November meeting will cover, uh, activity in October. Um, and then just a final note on the budget, uh, goes without saying that throughout fiscal year 27, we're going to be working to continue to seek all cost saving opportunities that we can find and all revenue generating opportunities that we can find as well. So if you want, I can take any questions on that or I can move on to any, any further questions on what's been presented. Um, otherwise we'll go to local option gas tax, uh, to loan. Okay. Um, so the LOGT two loan, uh, just to, just to reiterate what has happened. We, uh, the, the city council passed legislation October 13th to allow us to borrow 30 million from our balance of LOGT two dollars to cover eligible expenses. Um, what has to happen now is the amended interlocal agreement between JT and the city, JTA and the city has to be signed, uh, by the board and filed with the clerk of the circuit court. And then once that's done, um, we need to submit a plan at least 15 days prior to use to, um, the council president, the council auditor's office and the chief financial officer of the city about how we are going to use those funds. Um, so we will, we will submit that plan and, and we will use those funds as soon as practicable, uh, you know, obviously that has to happen after the other, the other steps. Our plan is to use those funds to pay down, uh, debt and other eligible expenses. So we will, we will comply with that fully and you'll have a report of, of how we utilize those funds. We have, uh, council president Howland, the Q you recognize. Thank you. Before we go off this chart, uh, I think it's the only chart on LOGT to loan. One of the, the primary, uh, use of funds is going to be to pay down the existing line of credit. Can you tell us how much that is and how much interest that's going to save you, uh, moving forward by paying it down with LOGT funds? Through the charity council member Howland, yes, it's, it's still $25 million. That's all we've drawn. Uh, it's up to 30 that we can draw on the line and it's for operating purposes. Um, you know, as, as discussed prior, we estimate about one and a half million dollars per year, uh, in interest expense savings that that will, that will accrue. Now we do have a budgeted interest expense that we've put in our working budget and, and the budget we ultimately will, will finalize, uh, of a 500,000 for right now. Uh, we wanted to make sure that we covered any interest expense that occurs, you know, this month and until we actually put that in place. And then to the, you know, to the, if, if, if at some point we should need to draw, uh, some for cash management purposes, then we'll be able to cover that as well. But if, if we don't, then we'll have available budget to apply to other areas. Okay. Very good. No one else in the queue. Please, uh, continue. Okay. Um, now I'm gonna, the, the, the third item that we were gonna cover was the current future financial condition. Um, so I thought it would be helpful to go ahead and share with you our fiscal year 26 financial results. And again, this is all an audited and you've seen these numbers, but you haven't seen them together. Um, if you recall, we had, we, I think we reported at one of our meetings that at the, uh, July, uh, board meeting, we reported a $39 million deficit. And then in our, uh, August board meeting, we reported a, uh, I may be getting the months wrong, but our last report was, was $36.7 million in terms of the deficit year to date. But that was largely due to the timing of, uh, of sales tax true up, uh, that we get. So it was a timing issue. Um, so what you're seeing here is a overall $40 million deficit for fiscal year 26, which is largely in line with what we thought we would end up doing. Um, um, you know, the last time we, we reported the $39 million deficit. Um, the, the, some of the line items here on the revenue side, uh, we, we did, uh, come in a little higher than budget and this is the amended budget. So it wasn't the original budget. Um, the budget was amended in February by the JTA board. Uh, but we did come in a little higher on sales taxes and CGT revenues. Then, then we, then the amended budget, uh, we did have a little shortfall on local option gas taxes, um, of about three, 3.1 million. Um, in our working budget, you'll see that we budgeted a little more conservatively than, than last year. Uh, our budget for fiscal year 27 for that line, line item is 17 million. So it's pretty close to what actually came in. Um, slightly under budget or over budget, uh, under budget on grants. Uh, passenger fares slightly under budget, uh, well, primarily due to the fare pilot that we undertook where we reduced fares for, uh, six months. I think, I think that, uh, would have been pretty much on point if we had not, if we had not done that fare pilot. Uh, and then again, the, the non-transportation revenue, I think that, that, uh, had to do with some kind of real estate sale that, that did not occur. So we, we will have to follow up on that item, but. Okay. Thank you. Yep. On the expense side, uh, you know, clearly we, uh, have a big gap on labor costs and services. Uh, the services are primarily due to paratransit, uh, under budgeting on paratransit. Uh, and then the costs associated with NAVI that, that did not come in line with what was thought. Uh, and then on the labor costs, uh, I think there was a significant under budgeting on the fringe benefits side. Uh, so, uh, those are the primary drivers. Uh, there was some offset with contingency, which just really basically means that, uh, we had budgeted a contingency and it would flow through the other expenses. So overall a $32.9 million, uh, variance on the expenses. We have past president Salem in the queue, uh, for a question here. Thank you, chair through the chair to Mr. Barnes is paratransit continuing to rise in terms of services and how, how quickly is it rising? And can you provide that information to the committee? Um, because I've heard that it's dramatically increasing and, uh, I'd like to understand that. Through the chair to council member Salem, that's a very good, uh, question. And the answer is yes. Uh, I'm not prepared to really do a deep dive on paratransit today, but I think that's a good follow up, uh, analysis and maybe even presentation that needs to happen during one of these committees, because it is a significant, uh, cost to JTA. Uh, a significant portion of it is, is, uh, unfunded, uh, and also, uh, what I would call, uh, voluntary. So it, it does merit significant review, uh, and, and understanding is the best thing. I know it's a, it's a service that is highly regarded, uh, by the community and, and it's a service we're proud to provide, but it, but it is a significant portion of our, of our overall budget. And, and through the chair, frankly, I'm not sure that JTA should be eating all that. I think there should be help from potentially other areas of this government. Uh, if we're gonna provide that service, um, that's just my own opinion. And I think that the council should look at that as something that, uh, how we can help if that's gonna continue. And I think we need to look at how it's growing and, um, make sure that we're providing the services we need to provide and people are using it appropriately as well. Uh, through the chair, if I, uh, can just, uh, also just add a little bit to, uh, past President Saylor's point. Please, please. The other service areas that we support as the community transportation coordinator are, are reducing their financial support to only the bare minimum, the transportation disadvantage. So, it really is a policy question about what quality of life do you want for the residents of this community transportation coordinating, uh, body here in Duval County. And so we are very much already willing and able to give you all that presentation at the next meeting, uh, so that you can see, uh, what the extraordinary impact is. We're doing everything from using AI to try to ensure that the trips that we use the same vehicle for multiple trips to try to keep the costs down as much as possible. But that, that is only gonna go so far before you get diminishing returns. So, as Randall said, we would be pleased to have our, uh, chief operating officer run through with you, uh, the mechanics of that so that you can, uh, as we have future conversations about reopening the interlocal and so forth, you have that context. Yeah. I, I'm not sure when it should be scheduled, but, but I think that's an important component of, of looking at JTA. Thank you. I agree as well. Mr. Barnes, you had mentioned previously in one of your presentations, you were looking at, um, options as well. As far as providers, other, other ways to go forward, uh, to be able to do this in the most effective and efficient way, um, exploring all those options. So, um, I think that is something we should, we should go over in more detail, but also, um, you mentioned NAVI and the cost associated with, with that. I, I, I think it's important for us to get, do a deep dive into the history and go forward on all aspects of, of NAVI, like the maintenance, uh, facility cost overruns. Um, quite sizable cost overruns from what was originally projected the share for JTA versus what it ended up. I mean, there are a lot of details there that resulted in big dollars, and in most cases being taken and out of cash reserves that at one time were a hundred million dollars. And now is no longer. Um, so, I think those two areas, I think we owe, uh, the taxpayers as well as to help us better understand, um, how we got here in line with the charge Council President Howland has given us. Um, rather than saying, okay, let's move on. I think that's another area we need to get into the details. And, and I know it's from time when you weren't here, but I know you have those documents available and some of the expertise in house to be able to go back and, um, and be able to present those details. So is that, is that fair? Yes, absolutely. And we're happy to work, uh, with the council auditor's office as well to, to pull all that information together for, for you all to, to, to review. Okay. Thank you. Yep. Um, and we have, um, Council Member Diamond, you're in the queue. Please, you recognize. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Sorry, I don't, this thing isn't on, so maybe we can turn it on so I can, uh, zing in. But, um, just on this point, first of all, I totally agree with you. You can't say, hey, uh, Connection Plus is creating all these problems while you're, like, dropping $40 million on this other garbage, right? That, that is going nowhere. So, that gives, to me, gives JTA no cover at all. But I agree, this expense is going up and it's pretty dramatic. We had Nat Ford at that podium and he said that he wanted to cut it. And I literally asked him. I said, hey, uh, the budget for NAVI is, is, uh, $14 million and you're telling me the overrun for this is $8 million. It's like, 14 is bigger than eight, right? So, you could just cut NAVI and keep doing this for our disabled citizens, right? Uh, so we've asked that question and it's, it's, it's a fair question to ask. The, the wrinkle I want us to add to this discussion in order so that it's productive is that, on the one hand, I think JTA is offering a really good service. Connection and Connection Plus are, I think everybody agrees, got to do it, super important to us. It's a moral decision that we make that we want to do this. The, the wrinkle I think that I want to make sure we do is like, let's make sure we're tailoring the right service for the right person. And, and, and feel comfortable empowering JTA to only give the service that somebody needs. Uh, we would all love to have someone come pick us up and drop us right off at a door if possible, right? But we probably don't have the money to do that. But if, uh, so, but for people who have to have that, I would like to have a service there. And that's the wrinkle. I know you understand what I'm talking about. When we have this discussion, let's make sure that the council is also being fair to JTA, that we're only targeting a necessary service, not just like what everybody would love to have. All right. Thank you. Good points. Um, yes, please continue. Thank you. And I will also say echo what Mr. Ferguson said. Uh, a lot of efforts have been made on the, on the paratransit side to mitigate costs. So there are some really innovative things that we are doing. And I think you will and will, uh, uh, like to hear from our chief operating officer about some of those things, uh, that will, that are in process and continuing. So, um, back to our financial condition. So these are, are, uh, slides showing our reserves and cash balances. I've, I've given you both, uh, fiscal year in 26 information and, and, uh, you know, just yesterday, uh, information. So as you can see, we, we, we are still, uh, very constrained, uh, from a, from a cat reserves and cash position. The target number is the, are the numbers that are set by our board as reserve targets. Uh, the, the transit operating reserves balance is based on 20% of our operating revenues. So that obviously changed with our fiscal year 27 budget. Uh, but just the easy way to look at it is the bottom line. Uh, we have, uh, we're supposed to have 41.6 million of reserves at the end of the fiscal year. And we had, uh, you know, just under 10. Um, and then currently it's a little bit lower than that. So we have about 8 million of reserves. Then our actual cash on hand balance is, is still, uh, you know, what I would call insufficient. Uh, it's, so we're managing day to day, uh, cash as, as best as we can. We do know we still have 5 million left on the line of credit we can draw from if we need to. So we, so we feel like we're in a, in a decent spot. And as you know, these are point in time numbers. So we do receive revenues and we do have expenses. Uh, so it does fluctuate from day to day depending on where we are. But, but we are still in a position of, of managing our, our cash, uh, very closely. And the, and the, and the, another point that's worth making is that, uh, you know, the, the actions that we took, uh, back in September, those are actions that will inure to us over time. Uh, you know, we, we may have cut a lot of, of payroll and things like that. But those things don't happen on one day. They happen throughout the course of a year. So I would expect over the course of this fiscal year, uh, our position to improve as we hold our expenses firm and, uh, manage our, our, our costs, uh, uh, uh, appropriately. Thank you. Before we go next slide, uh, go to Council President Howland. You're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to say, uh, a CFO once told me there's two cardinal sins that a CFO can, can do. The first one is not having enough cash when the CEO needs it. And the second one is having too much cash. Um, JTA is guilty of the first. JAA is guilty of the second. Um, and Mr. Barnes, um, I'm really happy to see that you're focusing squarely on improving cash at JTA. And the LOGT helps that significantly, but I, I'd like to see that you're, uh, I'm, I'm excited to see your focuses on improving cash and putting you back in a stronger financial position. Thanks. Thank you. I agree with those comments. I'll also add, you know, you mentioned the board's focus and, and what was listed on this slide right here is your target. And it shows their eyes on the ball as well in that regard also. So, uh, thank you very much. Ready for the next slide or did you have another comment there? Yeah, I would just say, you know, this is the type of information that wasn't necessarily provided at board, on board reports and that will be provided, uh, going forward. So, uh, they'll have clear visibility into our cash position as well as our, uh, payables and other balance sheet items. Okay. Thank you very much. So, as you, as everyone is aware, um, there was ratings action that was taken. I think it happened, uh, day before yesterday, uh, Fitch ratings downgraded JTA's issuer default rating from AA plus to AA minus with a negative outlook. Uh, so that is what, what is called a two notch ratings downgrade because AA plus and then AA is the one below that and then AA minus. Um, they, they, they did cite, uh, diminished financial resilience and management practices that reflect weak budgeting practices and controls. Um, I think that's been pretty apparent, um, you know, as we've gone throughout this process over the last, uh, few, few weeks and months. Uh, and so really this is not a significant surprise, uh, that our, that rating agencies would look at JTA and say, you know, you have some issues. Uh, our, our, our, our reserve balances have been depleted and our cash balances are low and we haven't done a great job of, of managing our budget. Uh, all that being said, uh, the, you know, uh, well, first of all, the LOGT debt rating remains stable at AA minus. So what does that mean? Um, you know, that means our debt ratings are actually tied to a specific revenue stream. And as long as that revenue stream is sufficient to cover the debt service, then that rating is not going to change. Uh, and that's the important thing for investors. The, the, the issue or default rating is really just an overall view of JTA's financial, uh, uh, position essentially. Uh, but it doesn't really tie to any debt specifically other than that's our overall, their overall view of our finances. Um, and, and, and while a ratings downgrade obviously is never good, uh, AA minus is still a good rating and it's not, you know, anywhere near what you would call a junk, junk rating. Uh, and so, uh, we are going to do everything that we can and we have done many actions, uh, already that, that are going to support that rating. And, and, and, and over time would support further review for increasing that rating. And I would say that actions that the city council took in, in coordination with the mayor's office and our board to, uh, provide the LLG, the ability to use the LLGT loan. Uh, this committee itself, you know, the review by the county to, of what has happened at JTA and, and what we can do to improve things going forward. Uh, and then our board taking a close, hard look at, at our finances and, and taking a strong governance position. Um, and as you may be aware, the board next week is going to start a procurement for a, uh, for an external auditor, an affiliate with JTA to undertake a, uh, uh, uh, an extensive review of, of our finances and, and what happened. So, um, all those things are really, uh, credit positives that will be, be favorably by credit rating agencies and anyone who's looking at JTA. So, um, it does show strong community support and governance and we appreciate all that everyone is doing to, to help make sure that we do this thing the right way. Thank you, um, obviously what you just laid out for us going forward was done before this two level drop in default, uh, rating. Just want to ask, how does this affect, obviously, um, you know, it affects the cost of borrowing, um, but given what you've laid out on your plan going forward to, to have a balanced budget. And be able to, uh, add to the cash reserves, the reserves, um, how does this rating change affect that plan that you've, that you've put in place? I think, I think the plan that we've put in place is supportive of, of, of what they would expect us to do. You made the point that the rating is based on what has, has happened, right? So they're, they're looking at what has happened and saying, okay, well, based on what has happened, we have to take action and inform whoever that, that JTA isn't really a double A plus their, their, their financials are more of a double A minus. Uh, in terms of the impact to JTA directly, uh, I imagine, you know, this is not tied to any debt specifically. Even our line of credit has a separate revenue pledge. Uh, it could impact our ability to renew the line, uh, or more likely slight impact to the cost of the line, I would expect. But in terms of the, any outstanding debt that we have, they have their own separate ratings, like I mentioned. So, um, those typically, whenever you go to issue more money or issue more debt, the primary review of the investor is on the revenue stream and the protection that that provides. And so I wouldn't expect that this, this downgrade on our non-debt affiliated, uh, uh, rating would, would impact that very much. Uh, it's more of a, obviously it's a, it's a reputational hit. You, you, it looks, it looks bad when you're downgraded. So, uh, we are, you know, we, we don't want to look any worse than we already do. And we're going to do everything we can to, to right the ship and, and make sure that the community can be proud of our finances. Thank you. We're running close to our time, but I'm going to go first to past president Salem. You're recognized. He answered my question. I was curious about the financial implications of this and it sounds like they're, they're really not any. Thank you. We'll go next to council member diamond. You're recognized. Uh, through the chair. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, to Randall, just, I asked you before about outside entities. I just want to run three names by you just since you're here. Just a hundred percent confident these things are in the consolidated financials. Jack's transit innovation corp. That's in the consolidated. Okay. Yes. Uh, Jack's transit innovation. Yes. Same thing. Uh, Jack's transit management group. Yes. All those are in consolidated financials. Yes. Got it. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Uh, before adjourn, I just want to say, um, we have a, we have a time constraint here because we have a special finance, um, meeting right after this. They have to turn for, um, I will tell you, I apologize to the two people who wanted to speak. Um, we will not have a time limit on the, on the November 2nd meeting that will be in the Linward Roberts room at 3 PM. So, um, just letting everyone know if you have any public comments for that section, that session or something from this session. Um, we'll afford you that opportunity, I promise you, because we won't have a time limit restriction. Um, so we're going to have to adjourn at this point. Uh, thank you, Mr. Barnes and, um, thank you, Mr. Ferguson and team. We appreciate you. We're adjourned.