All right. Welcome, everyone, to the November 10th Financial Audit and Oversight Select Committee looking into the Jacksonville Transportation Authority. We'll get started with introductions, and we'll start over on my left with Mr. Russell, please. Brandon Russell, Council Research. Mary Stifopoulos, Office of General Counsel. Philip Peterson, Council Auditor. Ryan Parks, Council Auditor's Office. Ron Salem, Group 2 at Large. Good afternoon. Chris Miller, at Large, Group 5. Matt Carlucci, at Large, Group 4. All right. Thank you. As we have listened on the agenda, I did want to briefly touch on any follow-up on any outstanding issues or requests from the last meeting. I wanted to mention, one, it's a continuation of my earlier request, but I've kind of made it more general now. So, for those here from JTA, if someone could round up documents that speak to the responsibilities, overall responsibilities. I was initially focused on fiduciary, and it seems those specifics in documents don't exist for the charge to the leadership team and the board. So, absent that, I'd like to see the documents they do receive on what their responsibilities are as executive leadership team members and as board members. So, if someone could provide me copies of those documents, I would appreciate it. Pastor President Salem, do you have any follow-up? Okay. Okay. Thank you. Anything from the auditors? Through the chair to the committee, so we had sent a couple pages worth of questions to JTA three, four weeks ago. We have received, I believe, responses to all of our questions. We are going through that. They supplied a number of documents, so we are currently going through that. I don't know that there's anything directly to report back to this committee. They were kind of just general questions. We are trying to establish an understanding of a lot of things going on, but as we go through those documents, if there is something that needs to be reported back to the committee, we will do that. But in this time, we are currently going through all of the spreadsheets and other documents that they provided. Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? Okay. We'll now transition to the main focus for today's meeting. And I would like to invite Mr. Raj Srinath to come forward, and I want to thank you, sir, for coming forward. We've had a couple of good discussions, and I appreciate your willingness to come and meet with us today. And I know you have your attorney with you as well. And as we discussed earlier, if this goes on a while and you feel a little more comfortable seated at the table here, feel free to transition over there. I know it can be a bit much to stand for an extended period of time, so we've been in accommodation here, but it's certainly your call. And with that, if you would just introduce yourself for the record and your address, and then, as we talked earlier, I would like to afford you the opportunity to make opening remarks before we start the main session. Thank you, Chair Miller. Let me make sure the microphone is going on. You're good. You can hear me. You're good. My name is Raj Srinath, and my address is 103 Springtide Way, Bonavidra, Florida 32081. And thank you for the invitation. I'm here to answer any questions you may have. Okay. I wanted to first start out, I don't know, just first start out by asking you, just so I know what your awareness is of any of the earlier sessions that we've had. Were you able to watch any of our earlier committee sessions that we've had so you understand what has happened up to this point? Thank you, Mr. Chair. I did watch the session on November 2nd, not on the 2nd, but afterwards, yes. So you were able to hear what and who was it that you were able to observe and listen to? Yes. Who was that? Who was the main speaker of that meeting? Do you recall? I'm sorry. Can you repeat the question now? Who was the main speaker that you observed and listened to in that session? I just want to make sure we all understand what your knowledge is of our process so far. I think, I mean, I do not know about the main speaker. Was it Mr. Hayes, Mr. Greg Hayes, or was it Heather Abora? I listened to both of them. Okay. Okay. I just wanted to make sure we had a baseline of your understanding. One of the things that, yes, yes, certainly, just wanted to start out with some basics. One of the things was, wanted to clarify, because the other two CFOs that we've had come and speak to us, we start out with what period that you were the CFO for the Jacksonville Transportation Authority, so if you would, you would just let us know, what was that time period? Certainly, Mr. Chair. I was the CFO of Jacksonville Transportation Authority from October 16, 2023, until June 30, 2025, about one year, eight and a half months. Then, more recently, I mean, after I retired from JTA, I had started a consulting practice part-time just to keep myself a little bit busy, so JTA reached out to me in April, May timeframe of this year. So, if I could bridge the gap in a consulting capacity as an interim CFO from June 1, I believe that the previous day, previous business day, was the last day of Ms. Obora's role as the CFO with the organization, until Mr. Barnes started on July 20th, so roughly about seven weeks, but in between, I was out for about eight or nine days, but, you know, anyway, so. Okay. Thank you. One of the areas that we talked about extensively, and, well, I just, before I go into that, I will stop back, I will step back and ask a similar question that we asked the others as well. How would you characterize the financial state of JTA during your tenure, and I'm talking more specifically about your main time, October 23 to June of 25, how would you characterize how you received, you know, what the financial state was of the organization when you started, and how would you characterize the period of time that you were CFO? How would you characterize the state financially of the organization? Thank you for the question. Let me start with, you know, my initial impressions, then kind of proceed from there. When I started on October 16th, some of the very first things I became aware of, and over the next two to three weeks was, number one, the previous mid-JTA, as you know, and for the record is on a fiscal year from October 1 to September 30, the fiscal year 2022 audit was very late, 11 months, took about 11 months after the completion of the year to finalize the audit. That was very late. Normally, it should be done in about six months or so because JTA had issued, I believe they are still outstanding, some of the bonds, and based on the covenants on those bonds, financial statements need to be provided in about six months, audited financial statements. And the second thing was also, I think Mr. Salem may know this, this was with respect to fiscal year 22, their budget needed an amendment because the actual expenses had exceeded the budgeted expenses, and it was pretty late. In fact, during my first week when I came here, Mr. Salem expressed his displeasure over that, and I did tell him, you know, I'll do my best to provide that a lot sooner going forward. And I'm just giving you some highlights, not all the minutiae, I'll be happy to get into any of that. And the third piece of information was I was a little bit surprised how the finance group was set up. In other words, Mr. Hayes had already departed from the company when I joined. I believe I may be off by a day or two. His last day was September 11, 2023. As I said, I may be off by a day or two. And Ms. Sobora was the interim CFO from there to the date I started, a month, maybe a couple of days, more than a month. However, what I was surprised was for about a year before that, the finance group was split into two. Financial planning, asset management reported to the CFO, Mr. Hayes. Accounting, which is a controller shop, branch management, reported to Ms. Sobora. Her title then was Assistant Vice President Financial Planning and Procurement. Of course, procurement also reported to her. Little unusual, that kind of a setup. And the reason I mentioned that, that did cause a lot of, I guess, disjointed communication or lack of communication between some critical groups within finance. So those were my initial thoughts. I'll be happy to expand on that if you have any questions on that. Or if there's any other specific question, I'll be happy to respond. Okay, and then how would you characterize the state, the financial state of JTA in 20, July 26, when you retired? June 25 is when I retired. Excuse me, 30, June 25, when you retired. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah, I mean, I think a little bit of a backdrop or background information or context is needed, which I will provide. Because I did, you know, watch the November 2nd testimony and all that. So let me address cash, which I believe was one of the hotly debated issues. And December 30, as of December 31, 2025, that's my first quarter there. The reason I picked a quarter is JTA's cash receipts and cash flows somewhat fluctuate between months. Sales tax being one of the bigger sources of revenues, JTA gets an estimate each month, third month of the quarter. It gets trued up. In other words, there is a bigger amount JTA gets in terms of cash in the third month. So quarterly is a little bit more meaningful than monthly, but I'll be happy to talk about monthly as well. So December 31, cash balance was, total cash balance was $164 million. I'm going to look at my notes because I do remember most of the numbers, but I just don't want to miscarry. However, I also looked at September 30, 2023 cash. I wasn't there, but I just wanted to make sure this December 31 balance is reasonable. September 30 cash balance was $170 million. And December 31 was $164. On an aggregate level, it appeared reasonable. So as of, you know, over the next couple of months, I looked at all of the cash, and one of the issues with either the $164 or the $170 number is it included certain cash. For example, it had about $13 million of bond proceeds, which JTA had borrowed for specific projects. These are the roadway projects from pledging LOGT1 revenues. And they were included in the cash balance, I guess rightfully so, but however, these were borrowed monies and unexpended yet for projects. But all of those got, you know, spent over the next 12 to 15 months. It also included about, I'm giving you approximate numbers here, about $12.5 million of debt service reserve, which is really the money, additional monies JTA had borrowed, set aside in case it missed a debt service payment to, while issues are being negotiated, that could be used to make payments for debt service. So that was about $25.5 million of debt, that's a key thing to know, that's not really JTA's money, although it had care and custody of those, but those were for specific instances. So if you strip those two away, the balance is about $138.6 million. And when was that? December 31, December 31, 2025. I'm sorry, 2023, I'm sorry, 2023, December 31, 2023. And compare that to the balance when I left in June 2025, it was about $89.7 million, so leaves a gap of about $48.9. But, however, to be fair, the December 31, 2023 balance, as well as the June 30, 2025 balance included LOGT2 cash receipts, those were for specific purposes, as opposed to the previous ones, which all got spent during the year. There was zero balance as of March, April of 2025, because they were used for intended purposes, the bond proceeds, also the debt service reserve account was used to refund some of the old bonds, thereby reducing debt, reducing debt service. So apples to apples comparison, the LOGT2 revenues had increased at a rate of about $1 million each month while I was there, net. There were some expenses, too. This is approximately the net. So that balance had increased by $18 million. So if I add the two, the correct or normalized balance of $12.23, take the $164 cash balance, subtract $25.4 for those bond proceeds and debt service reserve, and add back $18 million, which is what was in my ending balance as additional LOGT2 revenues. So you're looking at $156.6 as of $12.23 versus $89.7 as of June 2025, a difference of about $67 million. In other words, June balance was lower by that amount, which included LOGT2. However, one of the things, you know, in 2020 and 2021, JTA received significant amounts of cash from COVID relief grants to the tune of approximately $70 million, small amount in probably eight or nine in 2020, the rest in 2021. And my understanding, as I was told by the CEO and a few of the folks at the organization, those funds were predominantly used to support capital programs. Maybe a small amount may have been used. So that was a big one-time infusion of cash, which kind of brought the cash balance up, not because of ordinary course of operations, if you will. And by 2023, some of that had been expended, and the capital program fund had about roughly $37 million of that left, which was all received from the COVID relief funds. It's important to know those backdrop or facts to make an appropriate comparison of cash then and later on. One other key point is, in September 2023, I may have to look at some of the numbers here, you know, so that I'm correct. In September of 2023, before I joined JTA, JTA's board had approved an increase to the autonomous vehicle program. Previously, it was $49.5 million, about $25.5 million coming from two, actually three different grants, two from the state, one from the federal agency, FDA. And the remaining $24 million was what is called JTA local, which came from all of the monies they had received during COVID, unspent. That was the initial budget. In September 2023, the board took an action to increase the autonomous vehicle budget. It was called U2C then, now it's called NAVI, so it's U2C, NAVI, or autonomous vehicle, they all mean the same thing. Increased that budget to $65 million from $49.5 million, an increase of $15.5 million, all coming from local funds. So, from about roughly, you know, 48% from local, 52% from the three different grants, it went up to 61% local, about 39% from the three different grants. And put some dollar amounts next to that, it was 39.5% from local, 12.5%, sorry, 25.5% from three different grants. And the new budget was 65, and this was the flagship project of the organization at that point, perhaps remained so until I left. So, that put a lot of challenges in the cash remaining, because there were other projects too, so a lot of cash got diverted to this, which still would have been manageable. But, as we went through the year, as I went through, my first full fiscal year there was fiscal year 24, and the next one I was there for about nine months. I started noticing some issues with the drawdown on the grants, pretty much all of the grants. I mean, the COVID grants being an exception, pretty much all of the grants are on a reimbursable basis. In other words, which is typical in the transit industry, the agency or the transit company spends some money, submits invoices in the form of a draw request, and gets reimbursed. And if there are no issues with the drawdown request, reimbursement is usually not a big deal. It's a matter of a few days you get the money back. As we went through calendar year 2024, started noticing around the fall of 2024, that all of those three grants were different issues. I'll be happy to elaborate on what those issues are. JTA could not draw down, or could only draw down small amounts of that. Not a secret, at least within JTA. The CEO knew, the capital program's chief, she knew, and a few other members of the ELT knew as well. Let me address each one of those grants, the state, two grants of the state, and the FDA grant separately, unless you want me to stop. Yeah, well, I've got some, too. I just wanted to allow him the opportunity to... I'll be happy to answer any questions and continue. I'll leave it up to you, Chair. I'm here to answer your questions, sir. Okay, we'll put a pin in that issue and on those three grant issues, and then we can come back to it. But what I did want to shift back on is what we started with originally, and I'd like to compare apples with apples. And I realize what you did in laying things out for us to be able to take out the debt service reserve numbers. But I'd like to just overall, in basic terms, when talking about the cash reserves, Mr. Hayes said that when he left, his time, there was $187 million worth of reserves. And I realize the way you calculated it, you pulled out the others, but I'm saying let's leave everything together. And then over three years' time, which includes your time, from that point on, $187 million had gone down in three years to $9 million in the reserves. And so I wanted to just explore a couple things there. What were policies in place for the reserves, as you understood it, and I believe they changed the amount that was, the board changed the amount that was required to be in reserves. What changed that amount? And then, back on the overall change, going down from $187 million to $9 million over three years, who made those decisions to be able to transfer those reserves into the operating budget, into those programs that clearly we had overspent, or JTA had overspent the budget? So, if you could speak to those two, that would be great. I will be happy to. I'm afraid I do not recognize either of those numbers, $187 or $9. And 9-30-2023, if you can look at the balance sheet, the cash was, as I said, $170 million. It is not reserves, it's all cash, $170 as of 9-30-2023. And I do not know where $187 came from or what time period it corresponds to. And again, I wasn't around, I wasn't there on 9-30-2023 either, but however, that's what the balance sheet has. So, let's go to 30-June-25 then, what brought us from, approximately, $100 million less from when Mr. Hayes left as CFO. So, that $100 million, could you describe how that all was used, who made the decisions, and what board policy was regarding reserve use? Yes, sir, that's what I was getting to, thank you. Okay, thank you. That's exactly, I mean, I heard you say $9 million, did you mean $90? No, I meant in three years' time, it was down to $9 million. I do not. But that was at a period for the $9 million after your time, I understand. But I'm saying let's speak to where they were over your time, what decisions were made, by whom, to use approximately $100 million in reserves to cover those programs, who made those decisions, was the board involved, what was the board policy, 25%, 20% reserves, those kind of things, that's what we'd like to understand. Yes, sir. I'll be happy to. I mean, I can't speak to anything that happened after I left, but I'll definitely speak to my time there. And characterizing overall cash as reserve, in my humble opinion, is a misnomer. They were not all reserves. And, for example, now, the LOGT2 revenues we received, they were for a specific purpose. Yes, they were segregated. I wouldn't characterize them as reserves. And when I left, that's why I asked you whether you met 9 or 90, because it was 89.7. I thought you rounded those numbers to 90. So that's exactly what I was doing. From 164 to 90, that's exactly what I was trying to bridge the gap, or how they were spent. That's exactly what I was trying to do. It took a little bit of time, because I had to establish the context and the backdrop, and all that. That's exactly what I was doing. So, if I may, one or two pieces of information I already mentioned. The local share for the U2C or the NAVI project increased. So that was a draw on the reserves. The second thing... And that was a board decision, you said. The board passed a resolution in September 2023, increasing that budget. Yes, sir. Okay, thank you. And further, as I was saying, as we went through that program and my time there, expenses had been incurred, supposedly on the grants. There is a reason I'm saying supposedly, because it became a little bit of an issue, a little bit of a challenge later on. And by the fall of 2024, there were about 14, 14.2, roughly, million dollars. In addition to the local share, JTA had expended, but could not draw down. And that amount increased to about 18.2 by the time I left in June. The issues may have been resolved after that. I do not know. And that's kind of where I was. And I'll be happy to expand on what those issues were, why we could not draw down, if you want me to. I guess, and maybe you said it and I missed it. I'm just trying to understand how approximately $100 million during that time period in reserves was expended. That's what I'm trying to understand. And who it was, I get the part of the U2C increase of approximately $16 million. I get that part, but that leaves another $84 million. I'm just trying to understand how that was drawn down and by whom. Who gave the guidance to draw down those reserves? And for what programs? Sure. I want to wait for you to complete the question. But, yes, again, this is overall cash balance we are talking about, not just reserves. That's one. That's fine. I can use the word reserve to describe overall cash as well. If you would. So we're comparing apples with apples with what Mr. Hayes had established. So I get your reluctance to do that. But if you would work with me on that, I would appreciate it. I'll be happy to. But as I said, that's not a correct nomenclature for all of the cash. But that's okay. That's okay. I'll be happy to. That's why I started out with overall cash balance of $164, not $187. I do not recognize that number. I do not know when that was there. And I also mentioned the balance sheet number as of 9-30-2023, which was $170, by the way. So I cannot speak to the $187 number. I'm sorry. So you've said that about four times. So I understand that. Yeah. If we could focus on the approximate $100 million minus the $16 million, so roughly $84 million. Where was that $84 million in reserves spent during your time? Who made those decisions? And on what uses were those reserves utilized for? Total cash during that period that was used to support the U2C or the NAVY project was $57.7 million. And I did give you, because the board previously had approved roughly about, just want to make sure I give you the right numbers, $24 million to be spent from local funds or the reserves on the NAVY project. Then the board increased that by 15 and a half, so it became 39 and a half. And as I mentioned, we could not draw down on the grant that added another 18 and a half or 18.2, something like that, to the overall spend from the cash to $57.7 million. So that's a big chunk of that, whatever, the capital project reserve was about $37, $36 million as of 9, as of 1231. But 57 was spent, that's one. Anyway, going back to your numbers, roughly about $100 million difference, from $164 to $89, the difference is less than that, but that I can address. 57.7 was the NAVY, and also that was used for a lot of other capital program matching grants. Most grants require what's called a local match. It can vary anywhere from 20% to, in some cases, it could be higher. Like, for example, the NAVY or the U2C project was much higher. So that's where all of those funds went to. And the debt service reserve, I briefly mentioned earlier, the board approved a refunding transaction or a refinancing transaction of 2015 bonds. Purpose of the refinancing of the refunding was two-fold-one, reduce overall debt, and reduce debt service. And the refunding bonds were issued in two tranches, October 2024 and March 2025. Again, I may be off by a little bit. And the debt service reserve funds were used to lower debt partly. The other part of the debt reduction came from these bonds were issued as what are called premium bonds. We received a premium, so all of that was used to defease previously outstanding bonds to reduce overall debt as well as reduce debt service. So that, the NAVY spending of 57.7, roughly about $12, $13 million in a debt service reserve fund, and the rest were all various capital projects for which local match was needed. Okay. I mean, I may not have explained every penny, but substantively I believe those are the issues. Thank you, and I want to give my colleagues time here because we do have a limited amount of time. I do want to mention some time ago we were joined by Vice President Carlucci and also by President Howland and also by Council Member Rory Diamond. So I'm going to go next. I do have a number of other questions, but like I said, I want to give my colleagues time for questions as well. So we'll go to past President Salem. You're recognized. Thank you, Chair. And I'm going to say, Mr. Srinath, did I pronounce that correctly? It's perfect, sir, but you can call me Raj. That's fine. Okay. I'll call you Raj. That's a lot easier. That's fine. Raj, I want to get very basic here on some of the things that I have heard over the last three or four meetings that we've had. Number one, from what I heard and can determine, the board meets roughly monthly, is that correct, or quarterly? Pretty much monthly. So there may be one or two months the board doesn't meet. It appears, from what I have heard, that there were projections provided, balance sheet provided by Mr. Hayes, and the projections seemed to end when you became the CFO. And that they simply got a monthly sort of statement, but there were no projections, and there was no indication of how much cash was on board. That was not provided, nor was a balance sheet provided. And I would ask the auditors, if I say something that you disagree with, please jump in. Is there a reason why those things stopped? Through the chair. And let me mention one other thing. You said a few minutes ago, as some of these funding to NAVI and everything was increased, you said the lead team was aware of it, the CEO was aware of it. But one thing you did not say was the board was aware of it. And that's, to me, the crux of this whole problem, is that the board appeared to be surprised by what was going on, and we're not aware of the cash dwindling. They were not seeing projections. They were not seeing cash on hand at their meetings. And as I said, from what I can determine, it all stopped around the time Mr. Hayes left the CFO. Can you respond to that? Definitely, sir. I'll be happy to. I mentioned at the onset that, you know, the finance group had been split into two for about a year. And I went back and I looked at all of the board meeting minutes for that year, September 22 to September 23. I joined, as you know, in October. I did not see, I mean, two things. Mr. Hayes was not listed as one of the attendees of those meetings. He may have attended, but there is a reason. I'll elaborate. Give me one minute on that. And the second thing, except for, except for in April 2023, he did present the budget to the board. And he also talked about a long-term or a five-year forecast. Raj, I don't mean to interrupt you. That's fine. We've got several other people. I just want you to verify. Yeah. When you became CFO, it sounds like you are, I don't want to use the word blame, but this separation of accounting from being underneath the CFO was one of the reasons the board was not getting the appropriate information. But can you confirm to me that when you became CFO, they were not getting projections on the sales tax, LOGT, et cetera, and they were not getting cash on hand at those board meetings? I mean, that's basically a yes or no. Through the chair, Mr. Salem, it's not a yes or no because the reports I submitted to the board when I joined were what was being presented to the board. In September of 2023, and there were no board meetings, sort of one or two board meetings prior to that, but I looked at that. What was being presented to the board, I followed exactly that. Bear with me for one minute. I know it's not a yes or no answer, which was monthly actual versus budgeted expenses revenues and year-to-date, and cash was being presented quarterly. And I continued all that. And even more importantly, every board meeting, there used to be what is called a board pre-brief attended by the CEO and everybody else. I did not set the board agenda. And my first presentation to the board was in December. I did attend the board meeting in October. I did not present anything. I had just started. My first, in November of 2023, there was no board meeting. So, 2023, I did present to the board cash report. I did present to the board exactly what they were getting the prior few months, that is, the actual revenue expenses month and year-to-date. All of that. So, I followed what was being. I discussed that with us during the board pre-brief. I showed all of the reports. So, nobody said anything that there was anything missing. No one disputes the month and the year-to-date was provided. That was consistent throughout this whole process from what I can determine. The key part was projections. And you're telling me you didn't provide projections because, to your understanding, they weren't provided before. I looked at the report before, sir, and the projections were not there. Cash balance quarterly was being provided. And I did provide that in December and continue to do so. Can the auditors, can you verify that projections were provided prior to his, by Mr. Hayes? Through the charity conference. That's what I'm trying to do right now. Okay. Okay. Well, let's put a pin in that and come back to it. Because I think that's, I mean, what I have heard from board members is that they were not getting projections during your time. And that's a critical point because they didn't see the cliff, so to speak, as it was occurring. If I may just supplement my answer, with your permission, Mr. Chair. Not on a monthly basis. During the board retreat in August of 2024, I did provide to the board a long-term five-year forecast, which was similar to what had been provided, similar in the sense, format-wise, similar to what had been provided to the board. That's the only thing I could see in the board minutes. In April of 2023, a five-year forecast in April of 2023, that's in the board minutes, and that was, I believe, tailored by Deloitte. I kind of used the same format, and I did provide a five-year forecast to the board in August of 2024. Thank you. There were significant expenses, I think, that were left out from NAVI, that were left out of the budget, I believe, during your tenure. I want to use the figure of $40 billion. I'd see a couple of nods. Are you familiar with that? I'm not sure I follow the question. Was $40 million left out of the budget? I'm not sure I follow the question, sir. It was $40 million of expenses that were not in the budget that contributed to the eventual deficit. Which year budget, if I may ask? I wish I had it in front of me. Maybe the auditors can help me there as well. Through the charity conference, I think the $40 million is related to fiscal year 25-26, at which point Mr. Srinath would not have been. He was there for nine months of the year that resulted in a $19 million deficit. So maybe your line of question is related to the fiscal year 24-25 purposes. So you were there for nine months of it? Of the previous year. Do you know why accounting was separated from the CFO's responsibilities in that way? Was that a decision of the CEO? Not during my time. I was talking of the separation before my time. But it continued under your time? No. They all reported to me when I joined. So it was changed when you came on board? Apparently so. And it was for the brief period, Ms. Obora was the interim CFO for about a month or so. Before I joined, it was all reporting to her. Then it continued to report to me after that. Okay. I'll pass on to any of my colleagues. Okay. And I will just make a quick follow-up. You had said, Mr. Srinath, you had said that you did supply a five-year forecast April 23. And I believe that was the off-site you're referencing? No. April 2023, I was not at JTA. That was provided by Deloitte. Looking at the board minutes, I believe Greg has talked about it. But you're saying that's when the forecasting, that's what I meant to say. You're saying that's when the last forecast you're aware of was provided? No. Because we were trying to get at, were you providing monthly forecasts to the board? So, two different things. April 2023 was a five-year forecast that was provided before my time. I provided a five-year forecast in August of 2024. Yes. And that would have been the annual off-site that you have. But you, again, I hate to keep asking it or saying it, but you did not provide monthly projections to the board. I followed what was being presented to the board. That's what I did. And the answer is yes, because I followed that format. But I get you followed what you said the format was from your predecessor, which that's where the contention is, because Mr. Hayes said he clearly provided monthly projections to the board. You're saying you followed his example, but you didn't provide monthly projections to the board. And there's where, can you understand, there's where our confusion is. I do. It is confusing because, as I said, Mr. Hayes presented to the board, was listed as one of the attendees at the board meeting until about September of 2022. He may have done it. I do not know. He may have given everything you said. He may have. But I'm talking about I started a full year after that, and I had looked at the previous few months that was not there, and I followed exactly what was in the previous few months. Okay. I think I understand. Thank you for that. We're going to go over the auditors. They did a little research. That's fine. If I'm wrong, I'll stand corrected. Okay, thank you. Not an issue. Yeah, through the chair to the committee. Okay, so we went back through board packets before Mr. Shereen last time, and there is a page that's a year-to-date projection that is included in leading up all until he starts. The board meetings afterwards, the single page that includes a year-to-date projection is not in the board packets. We've checked random ones throughout the after his time. Okay, thank you. I think that clarifies that. So we're going to go over to Council Member Diamond. You're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I've been listening on the way over here and listening, sitting here. I don't know that we've made a lot of progress today, but whenever I'm struggling in some sort of interview like this, I tend to try to go up a notch in generality, and then we can maybe see if we can go down in detail usefully. So through the chair, first of all, thank you for being here. I know that's not fun being up there, so I appreciate you showing up voluntarily and answering questions. So let me just ask the first general question. During your time as CFO at JTA, did anyone ever ask you to do something illegal? No, sir. Okay. During your time at JTA, did anyone ever ask you to do anything unethical in your feelings? No, sir. Okay, good. So at some point during your time at JTA, the whole time you were there, did you ever feel like JTA was going to be in financial trouble? Thank you for that. I reported to the CEO, not to the board. I just wanted to clarify that. And the reason I say that, I reviewed definitely monthly, and later on a lot more than monthly, cash and everything else with the CEO. And especially when we started having challenges with the drawdown, that did put pressure on the cash flows. It's not a large company, so from initial projection of about whatever, $23, $24 million local, went up to $55.7 or $56 million. Yeah, that did put pressure on the cash, and the CEO was aware of the challenges, why we could not drawdown. Those things may have been resolved. Now, I'm just talking about the time period I was there. He was aware, and I did discuss that with him. I did mention it to him. You know, these are challenging. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we can get to that in a quick second, though. But at what point, a month, a time of year, did your brain, like, go off in your brain? You're like, I'm the CFO of JTA, and now I'm worried about our financial position, whereas in the past I was okay, and now I'm concerned. When did that first happen? I mean, concern, as I said earlier, fall of 2024, when the unbilled receivables on the grants had reached somewhat of a critical dollar amount. It was about $14 million at that point. I did mention there were a lot of meetings held with the respective state agency and the federal agencies. I was there for one or two meetings, but there were a lot of other folks, mostly the project office, and a few other folks, too. Hold on. I'm going to interrupt you. I'm just trying to get a timeline. I promise you, I'll give you the respect to fill out if there's important stuff. I absolutely give you that respect, so I'm sure they'll share well. So, you're telling me fall 2024 is the first time, like, in your brain, it's kind of, you know, I'm concerned because of these unbilled receivables. We had the former CFO. Did you watch her testimony at all? Yeah, I did. Okay, thank you. Did you hear her say that she remembers you all talking at the beginning of 2024, that you thought JTA was going to go broke? Beginning of 2024? Yeah. No, no. I mean, there was absolutely no reason for me. I mean, first of all, going broke is a little bit different than having challenges. Sure. Second thing, beginning of 2024, there were no issues that I was aware of. Do you remember when she said that in her testimony? I believe I heard that, but that was probably towards my end of my tenure, which is June 2025. I'm assuming that's what she referenced. But there again, I want to make sure, you know, people do not mischaracterize what I said or did not say. I went through with Ms. Savora, and I had my Treasury staff and my FP&A head around June 17th, it could have been the 18th year of 2025, in detail, the cash situation, and bridged what it was, six, nine months before, to that day, and what the reasons were. And at that point, as I said, there was still about $18-plus million of undrawn receivables. In detail, I went through it. The reason I did not wait until the last day, because last day, sometimes you may not be able to do that. That's why it was about 10 days or two weeks before my last day. I went through all of that, that if she had any questions or concerns, she can definitely talk to me while I was still there. Not that she couldn't talk to me after that. The reason I'm going to interrupt you is because I feel like I'm asking a simple question, and then we're going down lots of rabbit holes, which I understand you have a lot in your head, and you want to say a lot. I respect that 100%, but I just want to see if we can tighten up to these things. So, in the fall of 2024, you get your first feeling that there is a problem. What did you do? Did you go to the CEO? Did you go to the executive team and say, I think there's a problem? Yes, definitely the CEO, the executive team knew as well, and we had a lot of meetings, as I said earlier, with those respective agencies. Why we couldn't draw down what the issues were. I don't want to get into the weeds, but I'll be happy to, if you want me to explain what the issues were. Yeah, yeah, so I'm more tightly focused on the executive team. When you said there's a problem, was there agreement that there was a problem, or did people disagree with you that there was a problem? No, no, everybody agreed. I mean, those were the facts. There was an issue, there were problems we couldn't draw down. Those were the facts. There was no disagreement there. Was there ever discussion when you were saying, and everyone agreed, that there was a problem in the fall of 2024, that maybe you shouldn't do the NAVI or the U2C program because it was going to cost lots of money? Those decisions were not up to me. As I said, you know, just a month before I joined, the board had approved the increased budget that was a flagship project. I mean, as a CFO, yes, I can report the numbers. I can report, hey, this is an issue, but what type of service to provide, the levels of service, those were up to the CEO and the board, not up to me. Yeah, no, and I think everybody knows that you're not pulling the trigger on policy, that you're presenting numbers. But my question was, was there ever discussion that you were part of about cutting U2C or NAVI because of the financial problems that everybody agreed they were in in fall of 2024? No. So you never discussed it? Cutting U2C because we could not draw down in the fall of 2024? No, sir, there was no such conversation that I can remember. Okay. As you're rolling forward, and stop me, Mr. Chair, because I don't want to burn time because I know other people have questions. No, you're good, because that's exactly where I was going next, so thank you. Okay. So there's been a lot of discussion about the board and the budget and all the rest, but at some point, as you're going along here, JTA gets into worse financial trouble from fall of 2024. It gets worse, correct? I was talking to a specific issue on the NAVI, what we could not draw down, that it reached a critical level of $14 million. That was material. That's when the discussion started, and by the time I left, that number had increased to 18. So, yes, there were challenging times, and there were a lot of cost-cutting measures that were suggested and definitely not implemented during my time. And from what I heard, it was not implemented for the last year plus after I left. Well, then tell me about – did you quit, or were you let go? I'm sorry to ask, but – No, no, that's a fair question. I have a copy of my resignation, actually an acknowledgment by Mr. Ford to the board, saying that I decided to retire. Is it one of those where I decided to retire, but really it was that or something else was going to happen? Nope, not at all. Okay. Not at all. I'm sorry. Why did you retire then? I was getting there. You know, it's kind of – you're asking me for my age now, but I – in 2025, actually in 2024, mid-2024, I reached an age where I was eligible for full railroad retirement benefits, not Social Security. I used to work for a railroad before. And also around that time, I became eligible for a few other things from one of my former employers, such as health care and all that. And it's interesting you asked me that. You know, I had told – I had expressed a desire to retire. You know, sometime in mid-February, I had mentioned that to Mr. Ford. He said, can you please stay for a couple more months? I said, okay. Then he asked me the same question, like, why do you want to retire? I said, why does anyone want to retire, you know, assuming it's for the right reasons? Because, one, they're able to, financially. No, I'm not wealthy, but I'm okay. And the second thing, you know, this was all part of my notice to him later on in May when I said, at the end of June, I'm done. I wanted to pursue some personal things, too, like travel and a few other things, which I did. And so I was able to, financially, then I wanted to pursue some of the things. That's why. I mean, why do people retire? Yeah, yeah. Look, we don't have to get all – I'm just trying to figure out, was it voluntary? It sounds like it was, so that's fine. The reason I'm asking, is it voluntary? Because I'm trying to figure out, did you have a dispute, Mr. Ford, at the end of your term? Did you guys have a fight about the numbers or anything like that? The answer is no. Okay, so then during your time as CFO, did you go to all the board meetings or most of them? Definitely most of them. That's fine. Okay, so at any point when you were at a board meeting, did you feel like the board was not informed about the numbers? Well, you know, the numbers were discussed, and it was all brief, you know. And my understanding – I was given to understand by Mr. Ford that, you know, he used to have detailed one-on-one meetings with the board members. I was not privy to that. I did not attend. So my understanding was that he had provided everything the board needed to know on the agenda. So most of – it's classified under the divisional reports for finance. They used to be brief. Unless the board had questions, of course I would answer them. Okay, so I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I want to see if I've got this right. You don't actually know if the board was informed. You assumed Mr. Ford had informed them. It's not a question – I mean, he had one-on-ones, you know, so since I wasn't there, I cannot assume anything. And that's fine. If you don't know, you don't know. But what I'm trying to figure out is, did you ever feel like the board was making a mistake or didn't know the numbers? Based on my interaction, which was predominantly in the board meetings, I did not get any such impression. Okay. And then just a couple of wrap-up questions. The drawdown on the cash reserves happened while you were a CFO, correct? I'm sorry, I forgot the proper protocol to the chair. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll address you directly. Okay. You're fine. Okay. And this is – I know it's probably frustrating to you. It's frustrating to me as well when we keep saying reserves, reserves, reserves. We're talking about overall cash, which is fine, which is fine. So these specific reserves, if you will, which funded the capital project, were the capital programs fund. Yeah. Those were during the ordinary course of business. They were being used. And even before that, there were some bond proceeds that were left over that was also used for projects. Those were all done during the ordinary course of business. And if the capital projects fund got pretty much depleted, it is because, primary reason being, that $18-plus million we could not draw down. If we had drawn down, that would have replenished the capital projects fund. So Mr. Hayes testified that there is a board policy that you have to have at least 25% of reserves that you cannot go below. Are you familiar with that policy? That's an operating reserve. Yeah, operating reserve. Yeah. And that, the board changed the policy from 25% to 20%. I would like to say September of 2024. Okay. During your time as CFO, was that policy ever violated? Did they go below 20%? In 20, so from 25, it went down to 20, starting October, board passed it in September. And below 20% once in March, April of 25, a $5 million payment had to be made to one of the contractors. And it did, so we wanted to wait until we got the cash to pay that, but for a host of reasons I don't remember, it had to be paid. And that account, Mr. Ferguson was a signatory on that account, so he was well aware that we had to draw that on a temporary basis to make payment to the contractor. So, yes, the board policy was violated at least once, was the board a prize that they had dropped? I was getting there. Okay. So, the CEO knew of it, and I did not interact with the board directly, so that is the one instance, since you asked me, that is the one instance, $5 million, that was done. As I said, Mr. Ferguson was the signatory on that, and he authorized, and I believe he was also acting for Mr. Ford on that particular day of the week. Then Mr. Ford also knew about it, so I don't know if he went to the board or not. Okay, and then eventually the O&M fund gets wiped out altogether down to zero, right? Eventually O&M is just wiped, the operating is wiped out to zero, right? There's nothing in that account. I don't know if it was, not during my time. In 26, I was not there. I do not know whether it was wiped down to zero. May have been, yes. But, again, I wasn't there then. Okay. Did you see Mr. Ferguson's speech when he said that he wasn't going to put his name in for the permanent job at JTA? He spoke for about 20 minutes at a JTA board meeting a couple weeks ago. Did you see that? No. I read a little bit about that in the media, but no, I did not see it before. Yeah, I didn't see it. Okay. All right. That's it for now, Mr. Chair. This is challenging. Thank you. I want to go back to the auditors. Mr. Peterson, you referred earlier to the 24-25 year, $19 million deficit that is well known. What was the end period of that fiscal year that was included in that time period? To the chair, so the end of that fiscal year was September 30th of 2025. You'll recall during our presentation in one of the earlier meetings, the June 30th quarterly summary, 2025, had a projected favorable variance of roughly $3 million. And then three months later, they were negative $19 million. It was a $22 million swing in those last three months of fiscal year 24-25. Thank you. Mr. Srinath, did you prepare that quarterly summary that our auditors, that Mr. Peterson just referred to? Did that June 30th quarterly summary, I know your time was up on June 30th, 2025. Did you prepare the quarterly summary that he just mentioned that projected a $3 million deficit, but obviously turned out to be $19 million? No. Reason being, that was provided to the auditors in July, sometime in July of 2025. I was not around. I did not provide that. So I have no idea. I did not provide a $3 million surplus, nor did I provide a forecast for the 19th deficit. And these were forecasts. I don't know what the actual numbers are. So to answer your question, no. But they do those in advance. So your time was up 30 June. And back to Mr. Peterson, you said 30 June, correct? So that's when the period ends. Okay. The report is due to you and to us by June, July 30th. So the actuals more than likely would not have been accurate as of Mr. Srinath's retirement. I don't know their process for projections, but the document that was submitted to us came from Ms. Abora in July of 2025. Okay. Because she came after him at that point. But I guess my point, if you didn't prepare that, you certainly had a feel for what the future was looking like because it was just prepared a matter of a couple weeks after your departure. So I'm just trying to get your assessment of what led up to that projection of $3 million when we ended the year $19 million deficit. Thank you for that. Yes, June closed. I was there to the end of June. Those are the actual numbers. Projection is a little bit different. The projection, from what I understand, the auditors can correct me, that was provided to them in July, projected what the results would be at the end of fiscal year 25, which is September 30, 2025. Two months later. Three months later. I mean, July, August, September. It was given in July, but projections were for July, August, September. Okay. Sure. I guess, again, I'm trying to understand if it was, okay, let's say three months later. Did you have a feel for that, and what were any discussions, following up on what Council Member Diamond was saying? Who were those discussions with as far as what the end of year would look like? Because, obviously, you're looking out, even if you didn't provide those projections to the board members anymore, as we've learned were being provided the year before. So, you had to have a feel for what that end of year would look like, given it was a $19 million deficit. Mr. Chair, I don't want to speculate, number one. And even, may I address the auditors? Yeah, sure, please. That $19 million, again, which your office received sometime in November of 2025, that was still a projection, was it not? It was a projection, but based on 12 months of actuals. So, it wouldn't have included the year-end closeout, but 12 months of actuals should have been included in the financials at that point, and therefore using that as the year-end. Fair point. I do have, if you don't mind, I do have a follow-on question, because when I came back for a brief stint earlier this year, that's when the audit got completed, for 2025. And there were a lot of adjustments made during the audit, in a sense, and some missed entries and all that. I do recall revenue was one of them, so I do not know. I'm just more out of curiosity. Probably there are better numbers now for 2025. But that's fine. Again, I did not, you know, I would hesitate to speculate what I thought the year would end after I left. Three months later, I would hate to speculate on that. Okay, thank you. We'll go next to past President Salem. You're recognized. Just a quick question. Yes, sir. You left June 30th, 2025. Correct. Did you sense, since we ended the year, $19 million, with a $19 million deficit, did you have a feel that things were deteriorating at that point? Did you advise anybody? I understand that the numbers weren't finalized and such, but what were your feelings as you left, and did that influence the fact that you did leave at that point, that you saw, maybe you saw the business deteriorating and exited, so to speak? Mr. Salem, if I can address the last point you raised, if you don't mind. No, I did not leave because of that. I've said that repeatedly, sir. Okay. Then did you sense, and again, I'm trying to get information here, did you sense the deteriorating nature of the JTA the last week or two before you left that we were looking at a significant deficit at the end of the year? So, I'm sorry, I'm a little bit sensitive because I've answered the question why I left many times. Some people keep coming back saying that I left because there was something I thought was going to happen. That is patently incorrect, sir, with all due respect. And I've heard you. Okay, thank you. I've moved on from that. Thank you. So, given that, in June, I had eight months of actuals. May had closed sometime, second, third week of June, something like that. So, I had eight months of actuals. So, based on the eight months of actuals, the information I had, an audited preliminary, was year-to-date, JTA had a deficit of $1.3 million. Eight months. That, I discussed with the CEO and the ELT2, definitely the CEO. And that report did go to the board, although I wasn't there. That report did go to the board sometime in July, I'm assuming. And the prior month, the reason I take both the prior month and May, there is, in April, again, year-to-date, there was a deficit of about, roughly, I may be off by a little bit, $2.5 million year-to-date in April. In May, JTA received what is called the true-up sales tax, which is usually higher than the monthly sales tax. Still, year-to-date, it was $1.3 million of deficit. I did discuss that issue with the CEO, hey, in spite of receiving this true-up, it is still, year-to-date, 1.3 deficit as of eight months, or based on eight months. So, that's something that needs to be watched. I don't know that you actually answered my question, but my question was, did you see a deteriorating situation that was going to go well beyond the $1.3 million that was involved? And I understand what you had. You had actuals for eight months. I get it. I've run a business myself. But when I ran a business, if I could feel if business was changing, reimbursement was changing, I was losing facilities, I could tell that things were deteriorating, and I would take the steps to correct them. That's what I was trying to get to. If you're running a deficit in a month or two, did you have a feel that was going to get much worse, as it did by the end of the year, as you were leaving? Yes, my departure has nothing to do with that. I didn't say that. I didn't say that. Okay. Okay. Fair enough. So, based on eight months, as I said, I did speak to the CEO. Sorry, you asked me a question. But you're giving me the same answer over and over again. But all I'm asking is, did you see a further deteriorating situation in June of 25, as you were leaving, that eventually ended up with a $19 million deficit? That's what I'm asking. Yeah. I will respond to that. If the revenues deteriorated and expenses were not controlled, that could have been possible. That's what I was telling you. That's what I talked to the CEO about. But could have been remedied or could have, you know, I guess, you know, the gap could have been a lot less if expenses had been controlled or if the revenues were according to projections. That's where I was getting at. But that's a discussion I did have with the CEO. But what would cause those revenues to all of a sudden increase? And did you see any indication that expenses were going to be controlled any better? If those two things don't occur, it's going to get significantly worse. If both do not occur, I agree with you. It would get worse. And expenses, I mean, revenue may not be in one's control, but expenses certainly are. That's the discussion I had with the CEO. Yeah. Okay. Chair, I'm passing it back to you. Thank you for allowing me to ask that question. All right. Thank you. I just want to go back to the quarterly report that was prepared on June, that closed out on June 30th, but was introduced in July after you had departed. Did you know Michelle Markham? Yes. Okay. Did she work directly for you? Yes. Okay. I believe she was AVP of budget at the time? That is correct. Okay. She was the one, I just did a little more research on the quarterly report. She was the one that signed that quarterly report. What were your regular exchanges with her and her role versus your role in being able to prepare that report? And my guess is she had been there for some time working for you during your time period. She was there for about a year during my time period. Okay. Okay. And she was responsible for budgets, financial planning, and analysis. One of my direct reports. I had other direct reports, too. And I get that you weren't there when it was actually submitted, but I guess to the point we were trying to get to. You know, you are the lead financial officer for the organization, so you would think, of all people, you would have that feel, even though you were moving out the door into retirement. You would have that feel, and as I've heard from others like Mr. Hayes, that this has really bothered him as the previous CFO because of where, as he put it, where the financial, what the financial state was when he left the organization. And to see a $19 million deficit the next year, and then to see a $40 million deficit this past year, really concerned him, really upset him because of his commitment to that organization and wanting to see them succeed. That's where I think we were coming from as you took over after his time. And you would believe you would have the most idea of where they were financially and what was possibly coming down the road. And so to that point, did you, as you were leaving, like an exit interview with the CEO who you worked directly for, did you sit down as you were getting ready to leave and say, CEO, here's what I see is going on. And here's what I see the future is. And, you know, here are my recommendations going forward with that thought in mind, because I'm sure you really cared about JTA. Is that fair? Not just in the past tense. I still cared about JTA. Okay. And I think that care matches with what Mr. Hayes has offered for us as well. So did you have what would have been, in a sense, an exit interview, going over financials as you were going out the door, caring about that organization and wanting the best? Okay. I mean, I think we're mixing a few things here, but I'll answer all of that. I was not there for fiscal year 26 at all. That's one. So the $31 million of whatever deficit they're facing. But most of the $19 million deficit year you were, all but three months. Yes, sir. I was going to get there. I just wanted to separate the two issues. Okay. Sure. And when I looked at the eight-month financials, as I explained to Mr. Salem, yes, I did talk to the CEO about it. Hey, you know, expenses need to be controlled unless revenues somehow, which I didn't see that happening, increased. So I did have that discussion with him. It's not that I did not. That's what I was trying to tell him may not be. Sometimes it's difficult to give a yes or no answer, but that's exactly what I said. But yes, when I saw that, I did have that discussion with the CEO. And what was his response to those concerns? He acknowledged. He understood. Okay. And going forward, control-wise, because that's come up before. It came up in the Deloitte audit and their recommendations as well that was published. I know it was after your time, but this past July, they spent a lot of time in that report talking about the lack of controls in place over an extended period of time that needed to be rectified going forward. And so to that point, those controls, what were the controls in place that, during your time, that allowed you to feel confident about the financial state of the organization, especially when there was an agreement on what was to be spent on NAVI, which it sounds like, please tell me if I'm not on track here, but it sounds like the NAVI expenditures and the increase in what was budgeted for NAVI and was ultimately applied to NAVI seem to be one of the biggest financial, for lack of a better word, drain on the organization as far as their financial wellness. Would that be fair? I would agree with the statement you made about NAVI drained a lot of cash resources from JTA. I would agree with that. Okay. Yes, past president, you recognize. I'm sort of paraphrasing here, but my recollection of some of the testimony was that NAVI was extremely important to the CEO, and it was in some of the senior leadership meetings, you may have been a part of some of those, it was figure it out, and I'm paraphrasing here, figure it out, but NAVI has got to go forward. Were you a part of discussions like that? Yes, it was extremely important for the CEO, the NAVI program, and, well, figure it out. You know, there were considerable issues or concerns expressed before the NAVI went live, whether we should hold off, not necessarily for financial reasons, that definitely was one, but more on an operational side, but I understand from what he said at that point was there were certain commitments made to the grantors, the federal grantors and all that, so he wants to start the service as intended by June 30th. Coincidentally, I did not leave because of NAVI. It was June 30th. I'm sorry, sir. It was kind of hilarious because that came up again. No, but again, you didn't really answer my question. You indicated it was important to him. You indicated it was started against the recommendations of his, I'll call it his lead team because that's what we used to call it, that it's not a good idea to start this, and it was kind of, damn, the torpedoes were moving forward. But as these deficits began to increase with NAVI, and you and others, I think, expressed that to him, he was of the position that we're going to continue with NAVI at this level or more, and you guys, lead team, need to figure out how to make it work financially. Is that a fair statement? It, mostly. The thought at that point, including his own thought, that $18 million I mentioned, we would be able to draw down eventually, so not as much of a concern as I expressed that it was. I do not know if those issues were resolved later on or not, but with that caveat, yes, I agree with what you said. Thank you. All right, thank you. Sir, I just have one more question for you, and then I think we're at a somewhat hard stop. Okay. So, I wanted to ask, you obviously left the first time, your retirement started after your closeout with JTA on 30 June 25, correct? That was your last day. Correct. Officially with JTA. Did you prepare, I understand that you weren't there, but did you prepare the FY26 budget for JTA before you departed? Yes, I discussed the budget with the board, and the budget was prepared before I left, correct? Okay. Okay, and I just want to get from the auditors. Could you give me an overview of what happened in FY26 budget versus where we ended up at the end of the year? Through the chair, based on numbers Mr. Barnes presented, I don't remember if it was at the last meeting or the meeting prior, but they have finished the year unaudited at a $40 million deficit. That was a combination of a $7 million shortfall in revenues and approximately $33 million excess of expenditures. So, most of their concern, again, after your time, but using the budget you prepared as the base, most of their problem, again, was excess expenditures. The $7 million in revenues under what was projected for revenues is a problem, but it wasn't the major problem. The major problem, again, was overspending. Okay. I'm sorry. I have a lot more things I would have liked to have discussed with you. Maybe we'll have an opportunity for a follow-on discussion at some point. But, again, Mr. Srinath, thank you so much for coming today. And I just wanted to say, overall, our next meeting, so people know, is going to be a week from today, November 17th, from 11 to 1230. And I did want to have just a quick discussion, since Pastor President Salem is here. I just wanted to get your thoughts. My initial thinking going forward for that meeting is I would like to extend an invitation to the last two board chairs to come, Ms. Buckland and also Mr. Wallace, because we talked a lot about what did the board know, what decisions did they make, what did they approve regarding reserves and changes and use of reserves, other things like that. I personally think it's important for us to at least invite them and get their perspective as the two main board chairs. I just wanted to get your thoughts on that. Am I good to leave? Yes, I'm sorry. Thank you, Raj. Thank you very much. We appreciate you very much. I don't know if you want to bring him back, if you have other questions. I think getting the board chairs and their thoughts were as they went through this process, what they knew and when they knew it would be important to know. The other thing that I would say at some point, whether it's before the holidays or after, is to get into the priorities of JTA and what should they be doing, what are things that maybe should be done by some other agency or the city or that kind of thing, whether that discussion occurs at the next meeting or a future meeting, I'd like to see that. Absolutely. Those are comments that have come to me from people that feel like that we should have that discussion. Absolutely. And I'm going to look for additional dates. I know we're getting into the holiday period and it gets a little difficult for some, but I'm going to look for additional dates to do just that. But I thought as far as getting input and asking questions, I really do want to get into the board aspects of this. And so that's going to be my next one, and then I will certainly do just as you said because we need to get into that. But I also want to be mindful, and I see Mr. Weinstein here, I want to make sure any of those type of thoughts or suggestions of changes on projects, on what is done priority-wise, other things like that, I mean, there are negotiations that the administration enters into with JTA, and I want to be mindful of that and make sure that the administration is involved in those discussions as well. So, all right, are we, we got to shut it down? Okay, I'm sorry, Mr. Can I give him a minute? Okay, here's what I'm going to do, Mr. Oliver. My apologies. I will do it first. I will do public comment on, no, I didn't say that. I didn't say that. Mr. Oliver, the next meeting, Mr. Oliver, the next, okay. Thank you all for coming, especially JTA and administration. We're adjourned.