20260903 CM Johnson Noticed Meeting Old Middleburg Road Phase 2A Public - Sep 03, 2026

but together. And now, it's your turn. And with that, it is your turn. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Come on, West Side. We can do better than that. Good afternoon. Thank you. The West Side is the best side. Plus, as someone told me, we're the closest district to the University of Florida. So, one time at the Gators, I don't know, I like Florida State. Don't beat me up. I like the Gators too. Don't give me equal opportunity, but there it is. It's great to be here. For those I don't know, or if you're new to the district, my name is Rockman Johnson. I'm a member of the Jacksonville City Council. I represent this district, which is District 14. I don't see any other elected officials in here, or I would recognize them, but I must recognize one of my predecessors who has become a dear friend, John Draper, Councilman Draper. Somewhere, I saw him. Is he around? Where is the councilman? Okay, I'll make sure to recognize him when he comes back. But John Draper held this office 20 years ago, but still a trusted advisor. I'm a great friend, so I always want to recognize him for being here. Also, we're going to have our agenda. Those of you who came in should have been able to pick it up. We do think a little bit different on the west side, so that's a good thing. You'll be able to find digital access for this meeting, so you don't have to worry about signing sheets. You can sign in digitally as well as you'll be able to use the QR codes. So you'll see those codes to my right and left and behind me and right here in front of me. Those QR codes will allow you to have comments. Usually they're comment cards. By law, we have to have public comment cards. But I felt it was easier for you to do them digitally than any other way. So I'm thankful for technology. And even if it fails, we do have a way to make sure you still have the comments. I also, before we start, officially and completely, we're calling the meeting to order at 608. I want to thank the pastor, the staff, the team here at Hillcrest. Let's give them a round of applause, please. They have been amazing. We're trying to pull this meeting together. There's so many moving parts. The list kept it expanding as to what we're talking about. And by the way, Councilman, I recognize you. Please raise your hand. Stand for us. That's John Draper. He was the former Councilman of the Rivers District and my friend and advisor. Thank you, John, for the work you continue to do. But I thank everyone from this church because they worked so diligently to ensure that this meeting happened. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And if there's anything we could do on the city level for you. In fact, I have some ideas since I was walking around here earlier this morning. So we'll talk about that. You had a chance to see before everything got started, the budget video for the mayor of Jacksonville. This year, the good news about District 14 is that I'm on the finance committee this year, which is a really good thing. That means that priorities for the city for our two, I say 2.2, but around $2 billion budget. We made those decisions. We just wrapped up last week all of the finance committee hearings. I'm not going to go into them one by one and name by name, but there are some major substantive cuts that were made through the budget. I'll share a few of them with you. When we get to the question and answer session, though, I'd be more than happy to take any questions you have about the budget or if you want to send me an email or we reach out, set up some time, I'd love to share it with you. Our budget is comprised of the major spending and, of course, the CIP, which is the Capital Improvement Plan. And so those plans are those long-term projects, some of which, like Little Bird Road, which we're here to talk about today, sometimes they take a little bit of time. I was just in a meeting earlier today explaining that the government does not run at the speed of life. It runs at the speed of government because if it did, Old Little Bird Road would have been paid 26 years ago, but that's okay. We're getting it done now, and that's my charge, and I've been working hard on it. We'll talk about that in a bit. So an update on the budget is that the things that, again, to me that I saw that are so important, public service grants as well as cultural service grants, which work to keep our cultural service, cultural community, art in public places, all of those things, those dollars were most of them are maintained, but they dropped a portion of those dollars below the line, which means that some of those dollars have to be voted on again by the council, and it wasn't something that I thought was the right thing to do. I did not support it, but I did want you to know that. So I'm going to fight, and I'll explain to you how the budget process works in just moments, but I'm going to fight to bring those dollars back above the line so that our community can benefit from it. And when I say our community, I mean the entire 875 square mile Jacksonville space. We should all benefit from those things. The majority, the other thing I think that is very key for all of us that are sitting in this room, those of us who are parents or grandparents, or even if you're not a parent or grandparent, an uncle or an auntie, you know somebody with a child. Children are important, and I believe that if we invest in children now, we don't have to incarcerate adults later. And I think we could all agree to that. Kids Hope Alliance gets a pretty big share. Most of the kids' programs, you know, we don't, they're not able to deal with the school board. I can't tell you the last couple weeks how many calls I got about the Benicia Elementary School. There's nothing I can do about it. City council and school board by law have a veil between us, and so we can't, we only work on one thing, and that's building new schools and new places with the Joint Planning Committee. But specifically, Kids Hope Alliance, which gets roughly about 50, I think 55, 56 million dollars in the budget. My colleagues felt as though that they were cutting, excuse me, their budget had grown too big. And to me, 55 million dollars in all the kids' programs in the largest city and land space in the United States, I don't think there's a lot to invest in our future. However, this particular group has decided that since public safety is growing, it's large, but the percentage of how public safety is growing is not as fast as that of Kids Hope Alliance, they felt there needed to be a 10 percent cut across the board. That 10 percent cut would be 5 million dollars, which means that there would be 5,000 kids that lose opportunities in this community, whether it be after-school programming, whether it be during-school intervention services, all of those services, there would be 5,000 kids. We've already got a waiting list of at least 10 to 15,000. That would put another 5,000 kids maybe more on that waiting list. So I was not supportive of that. That's a separate bill. We'll be coming back to finance and hopefully fighting, debating, and pushing forward so that we can make sure our kids are funded. at the level they need to. And one of the things I said specifically is that kindergartner and a 12th grader have different needs. So we'll be talking about that. Last but not least, what you will be most excited about, and we'll talk about it in just a moment as we speak on College Road and Sidewalks, there are a million, you know what's the number that we put in for sidewalks this year? Six million additional. Right? So it's been, I know Councilman Luso is working on that. I went to a couple of his notice when I arrived on Councils. We've been working together. Millions and millions of dollars are now going to go into sidewalks. And Lord knows how much we need sidewalks, especially in many of the areas on the west side. This is a rural area. It was a rural area at a long time. So that's something that we need. So I'm excited to see the growth that will come so that you can have a better quality of life. So if you have any budget questions, I'll take those with it to our Q&A. Okay. The item number four, the Argyle sign. How many Argyle specific residents do we have here? Okay. So thank you. I know the Argyle City Council is here. Kathy, I see you, the entire Argyle City Council. Thank you all for the work. I meet with them probably more than anybody else. But I remember years ago, I think I can run the, am I able to use this to advance the slots? Down? Okay. Down arrow, take the city. Okay. So we're talking about the budget, thank you, agenda, and the Argyle sign. So we all know how the Argyle sign looks. I remember when I was a kid back in the 70s, I don't tell them my age, but I remember when the sign lit. Does anybody here remember when the sign lit up? Anybody? You tell them your age too. I feel. So I remember that, and I want us, this is probably the most iconic part of the western side. It's something, when you go to Orange Park Mall, if you're leaving the city, going to Camp Landon, you see that sign. If you tell someone what the Argyle sign is, or tell them you're near the Argyle sign, they know where to go. This sign is important to the west side. We'll see it featured in, at least on the District 14 website, we'll see it featured in many prominent places around the city about different communities. So I figured it was important to restore that sign to its once glory, and I think that does not only, we're not just talking about a sign. That's a part of civic and community pride. As you know, the Jaguars Community Benefits Agreement allows us to have a few additional discretionary dollars that we can use, part of those discretionary dollars will be used to replace that sign. And here's the underlying part. The sign is ragged. For lack of a better term, it's been there for a long time, 50 years, like, I've got a bad knee, ragged. I've been there for 50 years. Well, the sign is in the same space. Unfortunately, the sign does not move, so the place is under it, for water to go out, so it can thrive. It's just not there. So we need to replace it, because if it does disintegrate, it ends up blocking Ardell Forest Boulevard, which is horrible for traffic. Can you imagine trying to get home, going down Yondon Circle? Not a good idea. So that's why we want to get this sign replaced. There is a move I've met with the Florida Department of Transportation. There is a move to be able to create a new traffic pattern. You know, there's a and I'll meet, we'll meet Nina Stoom. She's, I can't say right-hand. She is the Public Works Director, and I'm just so excited. She's such a wealth of knowledge, and so I lean on her a lot, especially when it comes to Public Works projects, and you'll meet her shortly. But when I tell you this sign, it's going to be an integral part of not just the iconic identity of the West Side, but when we're able to finally reach this deal with the Florida Department of Transportation, we'll be able to show new traffic patterns that will allow that traffic at Argyle, excuse me, at Blanding and Argyle Forest to flow a little sooner. And I think we can all be happy about that. So currently, let's go this way. So that's currently the little sketch of what we're looking at for the conceptual perspective of the sign. There will be obviously foliage there. It'll still be a joint project, so we're, I'm trying to keep it under a certain amount. I don't want to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on the sign, but I do believe that there's enough to invest in and still do the other great projects in the city. I look at it almost as like a small pocket park. So you want to have it doing what it's supposed to do, being that barrier to traffic, but also aesthetically pleasing and sort of on block traffic. So that's kind of the conceptual idea of how the sign will look. And there is the conceptual elevation of the sign. What's my favorite part about it? It finally brings back lights to the sign. As you know, when that sign was built back in the 1970s and maintained in the early 80s, the technology with solar did not exist at the time. This technology does. So now we don't have to pay a light bill. The only thing we got to get out is figure out who owns this property. That's been the biggest hurdle because nobody wants to already have to maintain it. But the one thing we know is that it's going to make our cultural and community identity even stronger. So I'm really looking forward to getting that out of our outside. And I'll take your questions at Q&A about that should be a quick and easy project. And me and I are going to put you on the spot. Once we get into construction, how long will this project take the process? I want to, you know, speaking of city projects, 10 months is a very short timeframe. So I'm looking for it. I'm hoping if we can do this in conjunction with the DOT's maneuvering of the new traffic pattern that we don't have to have two times to stop traffic and maneuver traffic and route around. Hopefully, we can get this done all in one charge. The next thing, I'm not sure if it's here. Okay, College Road sidewalks. So this is a plan for College Road sidewalks, as you can see from the screen from CSX crossing the US 17 to Pine Burry lane. So you know, going down to the dollar store, I think it's Dollar General. It's right there. There are sidewalks that need to be there. I can't tell you how many times I've been in that area. And you see people tracing through the weeds and almost about to fall in the ditch, you know, trying to get down the street. This will improve that. I've gotten so many calls from residents and people just saying, can you help me? Can we get a sidewalk? We got you. It's coming. Six inch sidewalk on the north side of the times of the existing sidewalk on both ends. As you can see, the roadside drainage ditches will be improved. You know, the ditches, there's some major areas there. It's a wonder that it doesn't flood more than it does. But that's a part of the sidewalk project. The drainage will be taken care of and it will give a much better aesthetic look to that project. Construction is expected to begin next year in the second quarter. And so it should give an opportunity for you to weigh in on it. And you'll see the line. That's a pretty long sidewalk, a stretch of sidewalks, but it gives the community an opportunity to ride and fight and walk. We want people to be more mobile. I'm really into fitness myself. And that's one thing I wanted to have. That's why, you know, I'm so excited about the Old Little Bird Road, Old Little Bird Road project, because it also allows us to have that passive recreation where you can go in and take your time and maybe you may not want to walk or run, excuse me, you may not want to run a bike, but you can still passively walk and enjoy nature. And that's, that was something that's very important to me, which you told me was important to you. So, uh, we'll take questions, too, about the College Road Sidewalk project, uh, when we get to Q&A. So, I've run through all of those particular things. There's one other thing that's not on the agenda I want to share to you before we jump into our talk about Old Little Bird Road. I wanted to make sure Public Works was here so they could run through the specific phases with you. The presentation will not be very long. I specifically did not run the long presentation because I want to get more feedback. I want to, especially at this time, if there are ways that we can put something in that you think needs to be there, I want to make sure that you're included. So, we're going to be more question-heavy, and we'll be answering those questions through our Q&A session. Before we get to that, though, um, there's one thing that's not on the screen, but there is a flyer that's outside. Uh, anybody heard anything about the Wonderland Corridor. Have you heard about that project? If you haven't, I'm going to take a moment just to explain it to you, a quick Reader's Digest version, so to speak. The Wonderland Corridor is a vision to have a business development corridor that will go from the north side to Lending Boulevard all the way to 103rd Street, excuse me, down 103rd Street all the way to Cecil Commerce Center. What that does, and I think it's a very, very important project because one of the things I could hear in community meetings and conversations and other meetings, why are we not doing something business-wise on the west side? Now, it's not something to bring, we don't want more traffic. Lord knows, I'm not trying to be the St. John's Council. We do not need more traffic, but what we do need is more cohesion. And so, what this project will do is to allow business owners to be able to tie into some kind of identity, where there will be street signs, lighting that's uniform. The idea came from you. I was able to format it and formulate it. We're waiting right now on a survey so that people in the community and business owners can weigh in if they want it or not. If they do, we'll vote on it. And there'll probably be a millage, a very small millage increase for the businesses that front on 103rd Street, if they so choose. There will also be a board, as is prescribed by the state, a board that would administer how this business development district works. So, it's up to the council to put it together. But the board will do most of the actions, and then the council will ratify, the city council, I mean, will ratify. So, it's a fun, fun project. If you have any questions about it, I'll sure you certainly take them. Take a flyer. We're not asking, at this point, right now, the community to weigh in. More so, we're asking the business owners, because they would be the ones that would be the increased millage. But the beauty is, as I've talked to the sheriff's office and other public safety offices, it's a safer place. There's tidal lighting and tidal signage, better lighting. It's a safer community for everyone. So, I look forward to being able to hopefully realize the vision of the Runderland Court that pulls it all together. But I do look forward to taking those questions. Before I move any further, Lindsay, are you here? There she is. Lindsay Denmark is running for school board, and there is another candidate. I just know you were in the room. I wanted to say it. There's another candidate in the race. Whoever you vote for, don't forget, Election Day is coming. Please vote. The other candidate, I know. Are there any other candidates in the room besides L.J. Holloway? L.J., please stand. I know. I saw you coming, too. Please stand. L.J. Holloway is running for Congress. She is the Democratic nominee for Congress, and Lindsay for school board. So, I wanted to recognize both of you. It is not easy. I said that to both of you ladies. I know. John Draper, you know. And many of us who have run for office, it's not easy running for office. So, now that I have this microphone, I just want to say from all of us, thank you. It's not easy. It's not easy. And I appreciate you sacrificing yourself, taking away time from your families to run and represent, because we need people who are dedicated and committed. So, thanks for your sacrifices. Okay. I do want to take it to questions. So, with that, without any further ado, Scott, are you leading the charge for this? Scott Carter, come up, please. Scott is leading the Old Middleburg Road Project. He's from the Department of Public Works, and I must introduce and say she's a superstar. You'll hear from her later. I've called her twice already. She is the first woman to have ever run a public works department in Jacksonville to this public works department. And I think that is, I want little girls. I talk about it all the time. I just said it with some others. I want girls to see that you don't have to be elected to be in government. Nina runs the city. And I know, I know some people might say, ooh, you're all the same. Literally, all of the construction projects and engineering projects come from her shop. And as the director, that's a big thing. So, Nina, thank you for your service to our city, the city that I love. And we look forward to the great things that you will continue to do in Jacksonville. But let's give her a round of applause. Let's Nina Stigler. And with that, I will be back for questions in just moments. This is Scott Chief, Scott Carter. As he said, I'm Scott Carter. I'm Chief of Engineering and Construction Management. Nina's my boss, so I applauded. I wanted you all to see that. And I did have a couple slides to speak to, but the council was kind of shy, so he did jump in and take care of those. I simply want to introduce a few people that are on the slides so that you see who you'll be talking to when he comes to Old Middleburg Road. And let's see. I know. There we go. I'm going to call on a couple of folks who work for me. Mike, could you stand up? This is Mike Garbaum. He's led the design of Old Middleburg Road. As you know, there's a piece that's already been built. We're here to talk about the second piece, and then there's a third piece. So he's the one who managed the design contract. Darrell, if you'd stand up. Darrell Weinstein is going to be representing the city during construction. If there are problems during construction, he's one of the names you'll want to know. And then Josh, if you'd stand up. Josh Sowers is with Coxwell Construction. They are the construction team that is actually going to build Old Middleburg Road. They built the northern side. Now they're building what we're calling Phase 2A. So those two men, and then along with, what's your name also? Julian. Julian. Stand up, Julian. Julian's firm, WSB, is the construction engineering inspections, and basically the city's eyes and ears during construction. When something's being built by Josh's company, Julian is there to make sure that the asphalt's put down right, dirt is compacted right, and so on. So those three people, Darrell, Julian, and Josh would be the people you'd call if there's a bulldozer in front of your business and you can't get in. Or there's drainage that's flooding into your yard because they've rerouted water or something. We want you to know those names so you're not calling Nina and I to turn around to reach those people. So we will make sure you have their contact information. It's also on the handout as I was called. So I wanted to introduce them and see if I've lost anybody else. I don't think so. Oh, and then Jason, the man who's actually going to tell you the details. Jason Hall with ETM. Jason, you're up. Thanks for introductions. Yeah, again, very much emphasize the support we have in the field. We have a very good contractor lined up for the project. And Joel McKinley, who's got a long history in Jacksonville, both the JTA city projects and independently. So you've got very good teams working out there. So hopefully they make us look good from the engineering side. What about today is Old Norberg Road Phase 2A. I know we've had meetings in here. This is, I believe, our third time here at Hillcrest. Again, a big thank you to Hillcrest staff. They've been wonderful every time we've been out here. So the project is about the same for all of you that have been to our public meetings before. We are ultimately going to do everything tomorrow got for us, connect everything we've done up to get everybody to go through in third that you've already seen completed in phase one. Today, we're talking about phase 2A. So basically that is phase 2A. So here you see the entire corridor that I just mentioned, phase one, which we've already completed up on the north side. Thank goodness DFT has now just about gotten to third street fixed and completed. We've heard some discussions about signals. We've got a few phone calls in prior to this meeting to help out a little bit. Again, phase 2 is a rather large section going all the way to the remainder of the project. Phase 1 is specifically broken out to work with the DOT to help with that north street project. Phase 2 is the remainder of the project now. Now we've come in and the city is in. I'll hack in property negotiations with owners purchasing additional easements, additional properties needed for this remainder of phase 2. The city has completed everything up to Collins Road. So the city came in and said, why are we waiting? Let's get this moving. Councilman is very active, persistent. Thank you very much. Very good part. Very persistent, helping to usher this through. So the city has acquired a little bit more property as well as only the properties generally on the southeast side of Little River and Collins already. So again, why wait? You know, there's traffic issues at Collins Road. We're trying to address those traffic issues at Collins Road as soon as we can. So our scope here is generally seeing what you see down at Argyle Forest Boulevard, that four-lane section. We're going to continue that four-lane all the way up Collins Road and then transition back to what you see. So you have the general four-lane divided road, turn lanes on each side, continuing that forward. The one thing I do want to point out is we had a very big push to setting the sidewalks and pedestrian safety. So we're continuing six-foot sidewalks. We have ten-foot sidewalks running down both sides all the way from the academy up to Collins Road. Later on in phase 2 is when we'll introduce the full 12-foot path, but in this phase we have ten-foot sidewalks to get everybody up to Collins, as well as crosswalks at Collins that are needed. So that gets our pedestrians safely across Collins Road, as well as safely across Old Hill Road to use these paths. I did not mention, additionally, the emergency signal at the fire station. So that's just more technical, but have a four-lane section to get the emergency signal at the fire station. We're making sure that they're not getting blocked in as they are now occasionally. So for our timeline, the city's actively working with Coxwell to finalize the contract to get everything started. The intent is to get everybody moving this month, later on this month. You're going to start seeing the Coxwell app in the field. Matter of fact, I had an email come across today from Jewelry, and we had a construction kickoff meeting next Wednesday, I believe. So we are actually moving forward with this. So we're not wasting any time as we move forward, even as we're finalizing the contract. So like I say, as we head through this month, you're going to start seeing them move out there a little bit clearer, get your road control up, see that movement. Following that movement, you're going to see all the utility companies coming out. Go, Ed Electro, JEA, Comcast, all those lines are having to be relocated. Coxwell is going to be coordinated with these companies. Julian has an after role in that. Thank you, Julian. I've had three emails this week. Can you tell me how this is? You got to call them. So they're actually moving on all that. So that's moving forward. That'll come right after our clearing, the rough grading. And then, honestly, you're talking about the game next year is when you're really going to see the earnest roadway and drainage destruction, what most people think of the construction project moving forward. We have to get all these conflicts out of the way to get that moving. So that's what we're seeing in the last part of this year. Starting early next year, you're going to see the earnest roadway. You're going to see the papers come out. One thing I will say is we are using static compaction for those that I know have concerns about, the vibrations concerned with construction. It is a static compaction project, so you're not going to have to be heavy, high railroad or using, you know, those horror videos of buildings locked down. That's not the kind of construction we're using out here. Coxwell knows the environment we're working in. They know how to work with the residents. They know how to coordinate the residents, keep everybody informed. Opening, we're shooting for, you know, the end of third quarter, beginning of fourth quarter next year to have this first section open up. A lot of that, I will say, is dependent on the utilities, but we're pushing them hard to get everybody moving, get everybody out of the way. The city's helping tremendously, so I appreciate that, Scott. So here, I know I've talked to a few people ahead of time. As we move forward, the intent of this is not just to explode the site, detour people around. That's not what we're doing here. We took a very thoughtful approach. We want to maintain everybody on the existing road. As we start off, like I mentioned in the first slide, Apollo, it's a little hard to see. It's stretched on the screen. We are going to be doing all the utilities that are all basically on the left side of the road, all the traffic staying in your existing traffic pattern. Minimal, I won't say no impact, I'll say low impact in that first phase. Move on to the second phase. Very similar to the first is where you start your actual roadway. Again, you're going to stay on the existing roadway while Coxwell's working on the west side of the road. There'll be a few more impacts when you're doing intermediate drainage crossings and other impacts, but the intent is to keep you on the existing road, keep traffic flowing smoothly throughout the construction. Once we get that new site built, it will be a very short phase where we have some construction in the middle. We're trying to get temporary pay, get everybody tied together so we can move traffic back and forth a little bit easier between the existing and the new. So you can see that. And then finally, the next phase, we're going to move everybody over to that new pavement we just placed, start working on our existing pavement. I will say, very critical in this phase, we have a fire department on that side of the road, we have an elementary academy on that side of the road. We're coordinating with each of those independently to make sure the services are maintained at all times, you're able to get in and pick up the children from school, make everything as smooth as possible. Final, median construction, so that's when we're working in the middle of the road, continuing that grass median or pavement median, depending on where we are on the road. Upton College Road, keeping everybody secure and safe on each side of the road. Again, we are working in the middle, so we do have very tight coordination with the school board, with the academy in general, as well as the fire station. And lastly, you're going to see what's called military service, and you might not be familiar with that term. That's when you remove, essentially, the top layer of the asphalt, put down your final fresh coat. And that construction is going to go all the way down to Margot Forest, just north of Margot Forest, excuse me. And if you drive out there now, you'll see a pavement joint when the city finished their construction previously on Margot Forest. You can actually look at that, so you get fresh, clean pavement. All the way up to Collins Road, all the final pavement markings. And again, the intent is September, so late third quarter, early fourth quarter of next year. Have all that in place, your new striping, your new pavement. Everybody's in the final condition until you get through Collins, and then you're tapering down as you get more. So where do we go from here? Well, as I mentioned before, the city has finalized the construction compact with Coxwell. We're moving forward with our pre-con meetings. We're moving, everybody's moving forward as fast as we can here. Clearing again later this month. Utility relocations to follow it into this year, and then the roadway construction in earnest, we really start seeing next year. As Councilman mentioned, we're trying to keep it short, and so we'll open it up to some questions and answers. One last thing I want to address before we start with questions. You might ask, why aren't we doing the middle section now, the big two miles in the middle of the yellow section? Frankly, we don't own the land yet. So I looked at this six, eight months ago and said, we own most of the land of the south. That's where the concentration of traffic is, and the concentration of prices. So if the Council had helped, we broke this piece out, went to the contractor, said, can you give us a price for this? We'll break this off, start this construction now, where we own the land. Some of you are here further up on Middleburg. You know, we've recently bought more land there. There were a total of about 220 parcels to buy. We're about half to two-thirds of the way through that. Our goal is, this will finish in September of next year. We would then roll directly into construction of the next piece, if we own all the land at that time. We're trying not to have a gap. But the reason we broke it out again is the concentration of crashes and traffic and suddenly peace. We could address that sooner. Quite frankly, fewer crashes, fewer people are injured. So we moved ahead with that. I wanted to address that so you don't think we aren't trying to look for the long term. Go ahead. I think this one works. I do have a list. Let me remind you, because I do need these comment cards, the QR codes, if you have an issue with them, raise your hand and someone will come give you a comment card. But if you can just take your phone and go in at the QR codes that you'll see around up front, that will allow you to be part of today's comments. I'll see it here and can call you. One thing I want to add, I know we want to jump into the question and answers. And the first person is Gary Kelly. Mr. Kelly, where are you? Okay, I'm coming to you. Before I do, I want to also let you know, and I should have said this earlier, parks-wise, there have been several questions that were asked about parks in this area, and I'll wrap it up at the end. But parks-wise, I talked to Director Daryl Joseph from Parks and Recreation. There will be a regional park that will go into this area. It was supposed to be in the spot where, was it, Whataburger is now. You know, KFC on the corner of Collins, Wawa, and Aldi, you know, on that corner. Bethlehem Park was initially supposed to go. Thank you for the great work of the Argyle City Council. There was a land swap deal that was done. So now it will be further down on the other side of Brandon Cochakee, which is across from where Walmart is, the new Walmart down that way. There will be a park there, a regional park. I think it's 10 acres. Am I right? 20? 70? Yeah, but that's not the size of the park. The size of the park, I think, is going to be about 10 to 15 acres. But I think there is a parcel, because what happened, not that you want to know all the back and forth, but part of it was the school board, part of it was the city. We now have signed an agreement where the city now has all of it. We're working to hopefully put a community center there, but that, the discussions on that, the money is there to, I was able to make sure the funds are there. We have to do a design process of community involvement. I'm really big, and everybody who knows me knows I'm really big on the control of communities involved. Those meetings will start to take place. We're trying to push them for the fourth quarter this year. So, right before Thanksgiving or so, I'm trying to see if we can have an exclusive event, because I want to get the process started. But that is going to be later this year, so please be on the lookout for that. We'll talk about what that park will look like. And the second project that we're going to do, we'll probably do a community fund day or something, we're able to redo Jamie's Road Park on the corner of Jamie's and 118th Street. Anybody who lives in that area, you know people just go up with smoke, be there all hours of the night. It's being lit with LED lights that they cannot shoot out. And we'll have police patrols and, of course, no slot cameras. But I know there's a lot lately, but seriously, that park is going to be a really ground rule in the northern part of the district. I think it's important, because that community has been forgotten full of time. Just wanted to put that on the record. So, we'll start our, if you, Mr. Kelly, we'll start with your question. When you start the third phase, second phase, I guess, are you going to start at the north end and work south, or south end and work north, or are you just going to do it all at the same time? Okay, can you hear me? But the phase we're talking about tonight, Argyle Forest and Collins, as you saw, is more of a left to right rather than a north to south. That facing has been worked out for this section, phase 2A. For the longer one, the two-mile stretch, that facing hasn't been worked out yet, but likely it'll be more of a left to right again rather than a north to south. And the reason you do that is, from a contracting perspective, the longer the piece of work you can work on, the more efficient it is, time and money both. So it'll be more of a left to right rather than north to south. You guys stole all my thunder. Hey, I want to thank the city and the councilman or whatever because the Collins Road piece, this was actually more important than any of the other piece you got going on. And adding the second lane to Collins Road, going southbound, that was important because traffic backs up there like you wouldn't believe. And putting a stoplight in front of the fire station, that is a benefit to everybody there. So I want to thank you for that. He stole half my thunder or whatever, talking about parks, the park. But I'm really a proponent for the senior center. We want a senior center down in this area, and we need to get it in the budget. He's been working on it, but we need support from the community because people are going to Clay County to get to the nearest senior center. I'm a volunteer down there, so I know that there are people coming down there, including myself. But we need to push to have that. And if that will go with this park, we're talking that there could be other benefits to it as far as boys and girls club, JSO being a partner there. I mean, there's all sorts of possibilities to help funding it, too. So we want everybody to support that. So thank you. Thanks, Bill, for that. And I know I tell Bill often that he mistakenly masquerades as a senior citizen. So thank you. And I got my marching orders. And here's the thing. To go to the senior center, they told me I need a minimum of a million bucks. But I believe in possibility. That's what I got. Here's an option that we can do for working on doing this. So we'll thank you. And keep holding my feet to the pipe. Thank you. Mr. Hornlight. He's in Hornlight. Over here? Okay. I'm coming to you. Oh, Steve. And let me just say. I thought you weren't here. I didn't know you were here, man. Let me just say, well, the councilman's going over there. As far as the traffic setting, again, it goes back to Jason and his team. They looked at the long-term traffic and figured out what those answers needed to be so that we weren't just building a road for now. We're looking 20, 30 years out. So it's very much the design engineers who figured those things out and try to anticipate where we're going. Hello, everyone. Thanks for having this meeting. My only complaint is I didn't hear about it until Monday. So I'm glad that we're able to show up and see everybody here. I have various concerns and questions. But my first is I congratulate you on working on that R-Val for a sign. That looks pretty cool. But, again, that intersection right there has so many homeless people all the time. So hopefully those issues will be addressed, especially with the new sign coming up. So that was my first concern on that sign. The other thing I had was on this phase 2A, I noticed as you're heading south or actually north, you have a U-turn now, dedicated U-turn, right there at Collins and Old River Road, something new. And I saw off on the north end of that, the west end of that, that you have kind of a dedicated turn lane for those traffic coming down there. Is that going to be accessible and allowing for semi-tractor trailers to make that U-turn? Yes, sir. The U-turns are not for tractor trailers. They'll be for passenger vehicles. Delivery vehicles can generally make them as well. Tractor trailers will generally have to plan their route as they're coming, whether they're coming down R-Val for us, they're coming down Comet Road, they're coming down 103rd Street. But those delivery drivers plan their routes accordingly. So it's not intended to have tractor trailers making those U-turns. Okay. Then at that intersection, is that U-turn going to be a dedicated U-turn signal at the stoplight that will allow those U-turns? And after that, like a flashing yellow or a red? It is, if I recall correctly, is a flashing yellow on the U-turn. I could double-check that for you and get back with you. But it is a dedicated U-turn. It would function at the same time your southbound left turns on the Collins are functioning low, but it'll work. So it is a protective movement. So when you're making a U-turn in your vehicle, you are protected, and you have that green signal. Okay, so I think, in my opinion, is that a dedicated U-turn seems green for a while to bring those people who want to do that, then turn it into a yellow. I noticed that when we're heading south, when we come to Collins, initially there is a dedicated left-hand turn green signal for a while, and then that turns to yellow. So I mean, that kind of... I believe it's the same signal in the other direction as well. Okay. That would make sense. Steve, I'll make sure Jason gives me the answer. I know I've got your email, and we'll send you the direct answer. Just one thing I had, because we've been in meetings in terms of the phase two. I live on Old Middleburg Road. So phase two B, and we've brought up some issues about concrete barriers, and again, more U-turns coming in because the concrete barriers prohibit people who live off of Tannerfield Road from training. Left of that main drive, private roads, so everybody's aware of that. I guess my question is, based upon precedent of Collins, every time I drive down Collins, there is very few people who have denied access from coming out of their property and turning left or right. Only a few have to make that right-hand turn. So based upon precedent, I'll just raise the issue again. I think from these U-turns that I see being put in on phase two B, coming up to those and making it going across without some kind of opportunity to watch and stop oncoming traffic is going to be a safety issue. I keep bringing that up all the time. Based upon that kind of concern, after Collins Road was widened, do you have any statistics or information about how to have the number of accidents on that road decreased or increased since that was... The road was originally a two-lane roadway that was widened. So for a little bit apples and oranges with the additional traffic that's happened over, we all know how much this side of town has grown, especially over the last decade, or even before that, honestly, about two decades, this side of town, the Oakley, and everything else. I mean, it's really pulled a lot of traffic that way, which is the reason the city and JTA had one-way on Collins Road. Now, as far as the... there's only a very small section that's a two-lane, two-way turn on Collins. Maybe out of the three miles, there's only about 500 feet that actually have that two-way left turn lane. The rest are actually dedicated lifts and dedicated medium-core striping that I will say is not legal to cross that double-core striping. Whether people do it or not, I cannot control that. Neither can anybody in this room. But the intent is to have that. Generally, DOT has done many safety studies over the years. Having that four-lane divided with a median, on average, is about a 25% decrease in total crashes. And some of the most severe crashes are being prevented by doing this. You don't have opposing head-on crashes. Obviously, you do have openings in the median, so it can't say zero. But it really limits the amount of head-on crashes or head-on side swipes. Some of the most severe crashes of Lake DOT has one study out in Tallahassee. I don't know if you're familiar with it. It's got Appalachian Boulevard. They actually had a four-lane undivided, five-lane undivided roadway. They came back and added a median. And it was a 48% decrease in crashes on that particular road in Tallahassee. Again, I know it's Tallahassee and Jacksonville. We're not apples and apples here. But there are many studies out there showing the safety benefit for having this. I will say we have three signals going in along a little bit of a road. So you will have protected U-turns of those signals as well. So people that feel more comfortable using the signalized U-turns that is available originally, going along that way back in history, we did not have the additional U-turns in. And the city was concerned about the distance between the signals and people not being able to U-turn. So we've actually added those in. I don't want to get too sidetracked. I apologize. Seattle can't get it off the phase 2A, but obviously want to address your concerns. So that's kind of the history behind it. It's really a safety aspect. Well, what I was going to say is I've seen those U-turns, which I would have to be forced to use because I can't turn left on my property. I'll make the right. So the U-turn would be completed upon coming traffic. And then I was told that certain things, long trailers can't make those U-turns. We have people who have long trailers coming out with their campers and stuff. So it's really going to be impossible for us to make those kind of U-turns. Some of the larger vehicles would have to go up to the U-turn that's happening that we've built in the phase 1. So you're looking at, depending on where you are, maybe it's a mile to get up and do that U-turn safely. So again, the reason I just bring that up is accessibility to the current residents, which is going to now be more restrictive. I don't think Collins or Elegance and the Calvarius and those issues. So my concern is just based upon more restrictions, less access for the community, which is this concern of, hey, it is impacting us adversely for some people. And I understand the safety concerns and the illustrations and the drawings. But I was just wondering if there's any opportunity of just looking at certain mediums and getting rid of them, or is this, you are just fixed for me, this is it, phase 2B. We are not finished with phase 2B yet. We are still, we are permitted, but we are still tactically working with the property owners along 2B. I know Darryl Field, intimately, they've looked at several options with the city going back and forth. So I will say it's not finalized. Can you tell me what you're going to do? All the way back to the Better Jacksonville plan was to have the private roads exit to the north and the U-turn for the last, since 2008 was the Better Jacksonville plan? No, not 2000. Sorry. The Better Jacksonville, the Old Middle World Road plan through the Better Jacksonville were dated. 2008, I believe, was the last of the middle that the city had. That's kind of where we ended up. But there's still some, there's still some opportunity to make some changes. I would say there's about six houses, how many, how many in that, because here's the thing, even if it's 15, which is good, I mean, I get it, but the thing is, we had to look at the larger, the entirety of the project. So I get it, it made sense, allow them though, allow the engineers, because right now, that's why I wanted this meeting to happen. So before this went down, we would have the opportunity to have this conversation. So allow them to come back with a plan that we can look at. We're not trying to punish anybody. Nobody's being punished. I want to put it, nobody's being, and you know I love you, we talk about this all the time, nobody's punishing you. We want to make sure that everybody has access, and we've got to look at the larger part of the road. I appreciate you. Did you have any questions? You got any questions? Okay. Bill, Lewis, we're coming to you next. And don't forget, for those that want to, please sign up. If you have not done the QR code, simply raise your hand, and then we'll get somebody over to you. Yeah, so I appreciate that information. So the bottom line is we're still looking at options for Taylor Field Road exit out onto that. So that's still happening? We are actively reviewing it. And so then updates on that, who can we work with to get any information? What can we provide you to help you with that access? Again, we're looking at the safety components and what we can do safely. It's a very tight, I don't remember the name of this. It's not Haltz Point right there. It is Haltz Point. Haltz Point is only 100, 150 feet down the road from Taylor Field. Honestly, I think that was probably a mistake that was done when that community was built next to you. But it's putting a very tight pinch of that to try to keep a safe access. Yeah, so my simple recommendation is to delete the median, a concrete buried median, right in front of Taylor Field Road that goes down to Haltz Point. Just eliminate that, but make that a center turn line with this boat. But you are going to take that into the house. We have been reviewing that, yes. So, and we do know we've been having this conversation, you and I, for a few minutes. Is that your last one? The other concern is that the question I had about Collinsville Road, is there some way of finding out after phase that was finished about the safety concerns? Have there been more? Because Old Norbert Road is going to be kind of like Collinsville. They've gone from two to four lanes with a center lane. All raised upon an idea. We're making it safer for everyone, even though there's going to be more traffic. So the assumption is, with this winding and stuff, we want it very safe. We all agree on that. How is it from Collinsville's, I guess we just asked the police department. Can you list the number of accidents that have occurred based upon the design or completed based upon previous wells too late? Out of my curiosity. Let me look into that. The city traffic engineer actually has those numbers and crash records. One of the things you learn when you study crash records is the crashes are very much determined by whether you have the medians or not, as J.C. said. The other thing is simply the traffic count. When Collins was a two-lane road, there were only so many cars. I just came from 295. It took me 18 minutes to get off the highway to get here. And it was a mile and a half because there's so much traffic. So what I'll do is I'll ask the city traffic engineer to find out what were the crashes before, what are they now. And then the real comparison is traffic or crashes divided by the number of cars that were there versus now. And I'll get you that. And let me say this. If there are other questions, specific ones, you can send them to me. I'll give you my e-mail address. I have business cards here. And what I'll do is route them within the city to get you somebody who has specific answers. So my e-mail address is SCarter. Again, my name is Scott Carter. Followed by the number 1 at COJ.net. And so if you send those questions, I'll get you to the right person, and we'll get you an answer. It may not always be the answer you want, but you'll get an answer. Go ahead, sir. You're over here. Hold on one second. I want to say, because I don't know. That's what you said two times ago. I really enjoy, Scott, both Purdue graduates. But the references of your staff and people in here who are not only on this, so they don't have reports of contact. But Scott has some cards, so we'll make sure you get them. And I want to say about this, while I certainly agree and understand the issues, I do want it to be understood that we have to look at the project and it's entitled. So while, yes, there may be 15 homes there, think of the thousands of other homes that lie on Middleburg Road. This is not, and I have to say it again, you know you and I have to have any conversations. This is not to punish. Yes, we have to. And Lane Wiley Center is documented. But this is not to punish anybody. It's okay, I'm going to talk to you. But we don't want to punish anybody. But we certainly want to make sure that we are equitably looking out for everyone in those communities. And that means, at some points, there are places in our neighborhoods. I was just talking to a lady in Gentlewoods the other day, and she was a little disappointed about a speed home, where it was located. But the majority of the residents of her community wanted speed homes. There were people doing cut-throughs to Gentlewoods. And so sometimes progress is a little painful, but I promise you that we're going to make sure that it's not as painful as it could be. We're going to do the part. So we're going to be looking at those specific issues. If you have specific issues about the project, if you could email them to Scott or to me, and I'll make sure they're rooted to him so that we can get specific questions. But this is about the full-scale scope of the entire project. Bill. My name is Bill Lewis, the president of the Argyle Civic Council, which is now 25 years old. I want to toot Kathy Beck, my vice president's horn, when the Argyle sign with the south side of the sign, all those letters got knocked off. Kathy went after the insurance company, got us a $7,300 check so we could have the new letters put back up there. Okay, so that's Dana. Give her a big hand for that. So Bill, does that mean that the Argyle Civic Council, do I hear Dana, that they're going to be responsible now? Once we get this new sign up for taking care of the maintenance of the sign and the mold and the grass and all that? No comment. Yeah, exactly. We're running a shoe street budget. Also, get the information about the Argyle Civic Council. We do a hybrid zoo meeting. So if you can't come, but Rockman's always on it. We also have Commander Adam Lynn is usually at our meetings also, or one of his lieutenants. So I'm also glad they're getting the move out of Lightning to the south part of Old Middleburg first. That's that. Rockman Johnson's done a great job, and that's because we have logical and compact districts now in the city of Jacksonville. Give Rockman Johnson a big hand, because since he lives in the district, he works for us now. So give Rockman a big hand. I've got information on the Argyle Civic Council. I've got the original Argyle Plan Unit Development map over here. You've got to see that, okay? That's also included all Oakleaf at one time. I'm also glad J.B. Hochwald's here, so I'm going to get the information for the Wells Road Project, because they don't have the information on the website right now. That needs to be put back up there. And a good friend of mine, Ron Armstrong, is running for mayor to assign a petition. I'm over here. Thank you very much. That's good. And let me say about the website. I had to visit that. There were some issues that we found that I was informed of, you know, what was it? Maybe about four months ago? Three or four months ago, as it related to compliance with the American Youth Disabilities Act. Those issues are, because of that, there are going to be some things that are missing on the website, so Bill, thank you for letting me know. Yeah, what I'm saying, for different projects. There are, like, different things that have disappeared. I can tell you, I chair the Waterways Commission now. I literally, I don't really go to, I'll be honest, I don't really go to the website a lot, but I went by the other day, the stuff's missing. And so we just have to be able to put those things back. So if you see something, it's not always something bad that happened. It's just for the city, you have to reformat the website. A lot of things disappeared. Feel free to either go to 630city or mindjacks.com, put in a ticket, or if you'll send an email, I'll try to boot it, but the best way is 630city or mindjacks.com, but make sure that you put it in so that you can help. Our next speaker, David Osteen. Mr. Osteen. Hey, I've got just a question about phase one. You say it's complete, but all the pavement is not complete. The turn lanes from 103rd Street to Old Middleburg, only one lane is paved, and the other one is you feel like you're driving over a Mack truck, you know, you turn it. And the red light there, why do we have a red light? I understand why we have a red light, but whenever the red light comes on, it stops traffic both ways on 103rd or the green light where there's no roads. And I know there's that road, that new road, that access road that comes off of 103rd. Yeah. I have a very similar question over here. Actually, that is the DOT is doing 103rd Street. So the city's portion is complete. DOT is finalizing. When they finalize, they'll redo the pavement, they put markings right there at Old Middleburg. And the traffic engineer at our office and ask him to look into it for us on why that particular signal from DOT is stopping the westbound traffic. Admit it. I've not driven that since it actually opened a few weeks ago. I don't remember if there's a pedestrian crossing there or not, but even if there's a pedestrian crossing, I would think the DOT would be able to cycle that with a PED detection versus a PED recall, pedestrian recall. Do we know a timeline on, could you work on giving us a time as to when it'll be 100% complete with DOT action? Three different timelines, so I don't know. But actually, there is a standing meeting with a counterpart at DOT tomorrow morning. We'll ask that specific question. Sir, if you'll make sure you pick up one of my business cards and send me your email so I can get that answer directly back to you. The tomorrow morning, we have a standing meeting with DOT. We'll ask specifically that question. Scott, if you'll put me on that email as well, I'd like to just know it. Yes, sir. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it. Our next person is Ms. Porto, Amanda Porto. Ms. Porto, come to you. While we're looking for Ms. Amanda, like I said, we'll reiterate, we are actively discussing, and Scott's got meetings after the DOT. So we are in a construction phase on 103rd Street, but I don't want to just leave anybody in that. So what's the city's portion of Old Porto Road that is complete, phase one? Ms. Porto's question is, they have their new residence, and the widening will bring their property much closer to the road. They have young children and dogs that want to install a six-foot privacy fence, but they're told it's allowed as long as it's at least 25 feet from the road. Could you confirm that? That's the first question. Okay, the answer is, I don't know, but I know the woman who does. Okay, again, if you'll send me an email, I can ask Chief Kevin. She runs the zoning department, among other things, and she will be able to tell you what that setback is for certain, or if there's any leeway or not. Okay? But if you'll give that to me, that way I'll have your email address, and I'll make sure you get a direct answer. Next question. What was there? You had something to answer? Can you grab anything to get in here? Let's make sure everybody hears you. Depend on the acquisitions. If we're still trying to purchase some of your property, that may affect where your fence has to go. Oh, no. I'm getting back to our trade emails with us. So, Andrew, can you grab Scott's card and bring it to Ms. Corso? Her second question is construction hours. What will the construction hours be, and should residents expect work on weekends? Good idea, yeah. There is definitely some night work. That's some of that meeting that I talked about where we're trying to get everything night in and minimize it. In fact, there's a little bit of night. Weekends, I think, are restricted unless the contractor specifically asks for weekends that they need a specific item. I want to hear what you're saying. You said there shouldn't be weekend work unless... There shouldn't be weekend work unless the image requires it. There shouldn't be nightage unless the image requires it. So, the hope is to work Monday through Friday in the whole business hours as long as we don't mess with the schools. But let's say there's a hurricane or a weather incident. It may, force majeure, may cause that, correct? It may. Yeah. That ain't on the schedule. So, this is what I'll ask. If possible, Nina and the team or ETM or whomever, let's try to, if we are going to work on weekends and or nights, if we could know if we are forecasting that as far enough in advance so that we can at least try to have a way to convert residents of the district in the area and put it on social media and other places as well so people can plan if they know there's going to be something wrong on nights or weekends. So, we can get at least a week or two notice. Nights, I would say, when they start working on the media, including the signal work with paying signals at night, enforcement or utility tie-ins, very specific items would have to go in and get it done without it disrupting the whole JDA grid or storm-up projects. So, there are a few, but there are columns. But we've got to make a schedule that will be put together when they get a contract that typically goes to a two-week look-ahead schedule. But they forecast out much farther than that. I will personally be more than happy to have our team on the council do as much community outreach as we can. But just let us know as far in advance as we can. I understand. Force majeure. You can't predict it. Yeah, Josh Julian. Josh Julian, and I will make sure that gets counted to you. All right. Our next question, because of the widening, we're concerned our driveway may no longer be long enough to safely fit our vehicles. They wanted to get an evaluation of their driveway. I can probably answer that. We can send someone out to you. Yes, yes. We'll get somebody. If you guys need to get somebody to go look and see. Because I see what you're saying. Are you going to have to find another way to park your vehicles? We have added the additional driveway that we discussed. So the additional driveway is also part of the plan now. So that has been included. Again, like I said, the city is currently in the property negotiation with the property owners along the corridor. So we are actively working with the property owners of their attorneys and engineers as well. Our next speaker is Kathy Beckman. I'm just kidding. My concern is the home's road sidewalk. There are a lot of children with parents walking from that store to Blanding, which has no sidewalk. And they're walking in the grass. And a lot of them are going to the stores down on Blanding or wherever. So I wonder why we're not extending that sidewalk all the way to Blanding. Any feedback on that? I know the stuff that's been coming into my office are the questions about going to 17 because it's weeds. But there is a space that goes from where the dollar store is of Blandingville Park. What is the plan for that or is there one? So that would be the northern part of Cobb as opposed to the southern part. Well, my understanding, and I'll have to look into this because I don't have a direct answer, is that we're connecting the sidewalks at Pine Verde to the sidewalk at Pine Verde and to the sidewalk just east of CSX. You're telling me there's still a gap if we go east of CSX? From the store, what's the name of that store, Dollar General's store, all the way to Blanding, there's no sidewalks on either side. And people are walking in and riding bikes. I mean, it's really dangerous. And there's no lights there either. Well, let me look into that. Something the council mentioned earlier is in the current budget, if it's approved by council at the end of next month, it includes a great deal more money to fill gaps like that. There is money already set aside for sidewalks. What I need to find out is, is there a reason we haven't already done it? Is that money committed? Is there something there maybe we don't own enough property? But I need to look into that so I can get you a direct answer. And, again, there are a few of my business cards up here. If you'll simply send me an email, again, about the gap from Dollar General over the 17th, and I'll see what I can find out for you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Kathy. Our next speaker is Christine Pierre. Here I go. And let me say, Kathy, while I have it and I can sit on the mic, you got your well covered. Now we just need to work on your picnic table in that area for you. So that is something that is very, the Parks and Rec Department is looking into it. Hopefully when this budget passes, we'll have the funds to do that this year. Hey, thank you for the moment. I wanted to speak up just to have my voice heard. I live off of Taylor Field, and I know we want to move on from that subject, but I do believe it's important for it to be recorded that everybody on that road is having challenges with the new traffic pattern that's being proposed. And I honestly don't see, I know you were expressing, we've got to think of the whole picture, but I'm not sure I see how the rest of the community is being impacted negative by our request to tweak the plan and to consider the people that live on Taylor Field Road. So I haven't had the opportunity to speak at other meetings, so I wanted to make sure to speak up today. I also, so I'll pause there for a moment in case anybody wants to say anything. Let me ask this to, and I'm assuming, and if I can jump in and kind of play an angel's advocate, in the Taylor Field Road, in that space, how much more, and I'm not going to hold you to this, I know we're in a public meeting, Nina don't beat me up, but how much more do you think it would adversely cost to have that spot put in? Because what I was thinking was, remember when I got to council, there was a $40 million hole, wasn't it? That we had to find, when I elected, there was $40 million, and you cannot find $40 million in the couch position. I had to work like, hey, thank you, Nina, for doing it with me. The auditors, we stayed up late nights. We found $40 million to start this project on. But now, obviously, there are other, we are on a shoestring budget, so to speak. The question I have, though, is how much more, if you were talking about the improvements or the changes that they're recommending, just off the top of your head, would it put us over a budget? Is that one of the reasons for the reticence of not? We're going to look at it. I'm not saying no. There's no no to it. We're going to look at the possibility. But what would that cost be? Well, the cost, if we were to simply take the separator out, and that's, Steve calls it a concrete barrier, the separator, right? The cost is not the issue. There are sufficient dollars in the project, as the councilman pointed out. More has been coming in over the years. It's very much about the safety. So if it were a matter of we needed another $100,000 and that was in the budget, we'd simply say, okay, we hear your input. We can implement that. It's very much about safety. So I don't want you to think we're hiding behind dollars. Having those two intersections so close together with both having left turns is not as safe as it could be. And as your city engineer, my first responsibility, every time, is safety. And the city traffic engineer, who is my peer and is more an expert in this area than I am, has concurred allowing a left turn into Taylor Field and also out of Taylor Field and say that Hawks Point is not safe. So we don't think that's the right answer. Now, again, I know that's not the answer you want, but I think it's my responsibility to speak directly to you. And I appreciate you trying to take a moment and speak with me about it. But I'm not really – I hear that that's what you're saying, but I'm not seeing that as a problem. You're saying that this is an issue and it hasn't been an issue. So where is this issue? It sounds like a made-up issue or an issue that's been in existence in other places. And so it's – I appreciate you're communicating with me, but it's hard for me to buy it. And I respect the fact that you disagree with me. There's nothing wrong with it. That's the whole point of a public meeting is I work for you. So you should always be able to say this is what I want, and I should have a good answer, yes or not. Hold on. Oh, this is the first time I – hold on. Hold on. You already had three more, just one more. I'm not taking it at the end, but right now this is – and I get what she's saying. But there – tell me this, just to kind of look at that issue. Is the fact that this roadway is different now, does that – because it's different than it currently exists, is that why there would be the need to look at historical data from this kind of roadway in other spaces? Very much so. Obviously, you've lived here for a good long time. Steve's lived here just a few years. I'm only a transplant of 34 years in Jacksonville myself, so it's just a little bit. But going from a two-lane road to a four-lane road radically changes the safety characteristics. Plus the traffic that's already there, as you all know, more development is coming, more traffic. As that traffic builds, this kind of configuration only gets more dangerous. So that's why as we widen the road, we have to look at what is it going to be 10, 20, 30 years from now, and allowing those left turns in and out of Taylor Field is not safe. And that's why I have to stand firm on them. Now, if there were other studies – Jason mentioned DOT does all sorts of safety studies across the state looking at other configurations. There isn't one that we believe is safe to do there. Does that answer them? Please. I'm going to go ahead and pause on that. And the other comment that I was curious about making is with regards to the right turn from Old Middleburg on to 103rd. There's two right turns, which is great and I love, but there's a sign that says no turn on right. And I know that other areas I've seen, like right lane can turn right on red, but, you know, left lane cannot. Why don't we have it set up like that? Because that lane still only opens up right there. So it doesn't make any sense to me why is the right lane not allowed to turn right on red. Okay. Let me address that as best I can. Now, I could hide behind 103rd as DMT. I'm not about to do that. That's just disingenuous. When you have a double right turn, one of the things you have to consider is, is there a pedestrian crossing there? Is there a place where a pedestrian can press the button and cross 103rd? I just don't have to know that intersection well enough. If that's the case, you preclude those right on reds because those drivers don't slow down for that pedestrian. It's very dangerous for pedestrians to cross 103rd anyway because there's so many lanes. Having the right on red adds to that risk. Now, I'll look into this, and again, I've been handing out business cards because I want to be able to come back to you. I'll look into this and see, is there a reason there that I'm not thinking of, or is there a reason we should consider asking DOT to take it down? I don't know the answer, but again, I'm happy to look into the answer and get you a straight answer. Wait a minute. Andrew, get me the car. We're in the car. You can make sure. Say your name. It's got to be on Old Norbert. Councilman, if I can add one more thing. Oh. I'll bring this comment on the address. Okay. Yeah, hold on. Andrew, there's a very short distance between Old Norbert Road and Sandler Road. So you do have a lot of traffic that are trying to merge over to the right to get on Sandler Road. I don't know that's 100% the reason. But as Scott said, we can give it to you a T and find a solid answer. But that is also plays into the configuration. Acknowledge, or have paid attention to that might be also impacting it. It still seems reasonable to me that the right lane should be able to turn right on red like you do in other areas. But that would be great if y'all could look into it. And I can say, I have designed another road 15 years ago where we allowed right on red from both lanes. And there was a pedestrian crossing there, so we put a phase in. That one worked because the geometry was very wide open. This one may not be, and that's where I need to find the answer so I can address your question directly. And, Gail, hold on. Say your name. Gail Adams. Yes. Phil. One of the issues is they're not through with the construction there at 103rd on Middleburg. On the inside right lane, you should be able to go on a red light. But the outer turn lane, you have to hold because it's facing oncoming traffic. You have the next road over, which is timber, that you can only make right-hand turns. And it says right lane only on red. The left lane has to wait. Nobody waits. Everybody turns right on red. It doesn't matter whether it's red or green. They're going. But we don't know what the construction is because they're really not through with all of that building with sidewalks or whatever's going to happen. We don't even know if we're going to get a turn lane off of 103rd back onto Old Middleburg, or we have to go all the way down to the new exit. I mean, what is the new design? I think some of us are still waiting on it, because although I know you're not hiding behind it, it's a state road. So we're still at the mercy of what DLT tells us, but we're still trying to get some feedback on it. I think it's a configuration question as far as the configuration. Yes, the intent is for all left turns going down Old Middleburg to use the new entrance, the new double left that DLT is putting in. How many of they open the second double, or is it double open? It's open. So that double left going on to Old Middleburg. The intent of the free lane section we have on the existing Old Middleburg, when you get south from the feed store, south of the circle, can I believe, is to allow that traffic to get back and forth. But there shouldn't be any right turns coming off of 103rd to Old Middleburg, and there shouldn't be any left turns from 103rd into the existing. As you're coming out of the kangaroo station onto Old Middleburg Road, there's still turning left, because you have that far lane that allows you to, for the new lane that y'all built, for the new road to go around in all the way. Herbs. So what is? I mean, it's very interesting. That's the very southern entrance to the kangaroo there. I apologize, I call it a circle, okay. The kangaroo, the very southern entrance has been allowed to left out. The one that's up by the pumps is a right, there should be a right turn only, and it's signed as a right turn only. So there shouldn't be anybody coming out of that entrance and making it left across all the turn lanes that is the far left side. There's nothing to tell them that can't. There is a sign, but it's probably not as hard to see. I'm coming back to you. Hold on, just hold on. And instead, don't make it seem like we just put, don't make it seem like we just put in all the twists and turns. You know that rope been curving since Hamill was a hatchet and now she's a broadaxe. It's been a long, exactly, and you know that rope has been twisted and turned. All right, I've got any other comments. I'm going to come back to you, but are there any other people who haven't spoken already? Sir, please. And we'll get your, Andrew, if you can get, where are you, Andrew? Comment card for the scale and then for this gentleman. Yes, you should. I think it's the phone. My name is Richard Stasko. A couple of questions. One is on the phase 2A that you literally came to talk about. There's a queuing effect, and the queuing effect is caused by the left-hand turn on the southbound end of Old Middleburg, which basically blocks traffic. And as that has been extended, the green light has been extended. Of course, it's increased the queuing effect on the northbound side on the other end. Plus, you have the charter school, which causes another queuing effect. How does your design impact those queuing effects? Sure. First off, I like the fact that he's using queuing. It sounds like another engineer here. He's an engineer. Okay, but the answer is with the Tulane as it is now, obviously, that left turn going on to Collins stops people coming north toward Collins. With this interim condition, the 2A, we're going to help that a little bit because the Collins signal will have the double left coming on to 2A on the Old Middleburg southbound. So it's going to help a little bit. The real answer is the rest of the construction that will start next year. So it's going to get the queuing a little less once this opens in September. But when the ultimate builds up, that will be the real answer. So you're going to get some help now, some help later. There is a single left from Old Middleburg onto Collins. There's a double left from Collins onto Old Middleburg. Okay, what you see here, you're having two left turns on the slide here to the left. I apologize, it is stretched out. You have a single left, so to the right of the screen and to your north. So you're heading southbound, you have a single left. But where the laser is right there, that is the cause of the queuing effect on the other side because of the length of the cars. The only way you can fix that is you're going to need to put a double left there to shorten the queues. We're extending that left, so you're going to get more queue space on that distance. That combined with the double lefts on Collins Road, as well as the right turn you're getting from Collins Road, or excuse me, right turn from Old Middleburg Road onto Collins Road. It's going to shorten some of those cycles. So a lot of that's being helped with the signal timing. Use queuing and everything, so it sounds like you might have a little bit of engineering background. So we'll do signal timing and adjust the timing of the signal to help those movements flow more smoothly. Okay, then the second part question about the charter school. Well, at that portion of your charter school, you'll have right now you merge right there before you get to the charter school into one lane. So you're going to have those two lanes that are going to run all the way down Old Middleburg, and we're adding a right turn lane into the charter school to help get that traffic out. Even if it does queue up, it's going to queue in that outside lane, and you'll still be able to get out. You mean Charger Academy is what you're talking about, right? Charger Academy. I just want to make sure you're clear, because there's a charter school on 103rd Street. I don't want to confuse anybody. Charger Academy. Charger Academy, I believe it's Charger Academy. That backs out of the school onto the street. You effectively have one lane there. Correct. We've extended that turn lane all the way through the school property, so we've connected. So if it does queue up past that first driveway, they've got additional room in turn lanes to get past the driveway. And, again, you will have also two through lanes rather than the single through lane you have today. So if they do queue all the way down the turn lane and into the roadway, you still have that left lane that's going to continue all the way through to get around the academy. And then you can open back up and they get right on the column until it continues straight. The other thing I would just observe is that you gentlemen said you're going to see FDOT tomorrow. I have found them to be seemingly unresponsive. They do not return calls up when they do their pedantic. Well, let me say, I was a consultant in the private sector for a good 30-some years. In dealing with DOT, because they don't have the immediate access to your elected leaders, they can be a little more standoffish. We as city employees answer to the mayor, answer to the council. So when you ask a question, if I don't answer it, he's going to ask me again. Yes, it's the exact information. The gentleman from FDOT, don't talk to him. They don't, but here's who I talk to, our elected leaders. We just so happen to have, now the reason we were having some traction with FDOT, because that's when they sat down with us, Senator Davis, Tracy Davis, who also represents this area, and Representative Wyden Duggan, who just happened to be the speaker pro-tem this year, they now take our calls. So it does help because those people approved their budgets. And so this year, the good news is Sam Garrison, who lives in Clay County, will be the speaker of the House. That's good for all of North Florida. So we should be able to move some things forward. I will say that it's DOT who asked to meet with me and our other chiefs monthly. So we do have a very good relationship with FDOT. So if you can pass information through your council member to Public Works, we've gotten a lot of cooperation from DOT through that relationship. All right. Who do we have next? Do we have anybody that, I'm going to come back to you, anybody that has not spoken yet. I was trying to get all the first-timers, did you do, I didn't see your name on the list. You've got to do a comment card. You know, this is legal stuff. I'm coming back to you, but I'm going to get those people who haven't spoken yet. Say your name, and you're going to need to do a comment card. Bruce Tyson, I'm on the group. How was the decision made on which side of the street the multi-purpose staff got put on, and the side? What was that decision made? Jason, take the microphone. I can talk less as well. So coordination with the city, they had the city park on that side, the recreation area. So the way everything laid out, that was the intent, just to keep it up there to the park. And that ran its course all the way through the project. So that was an early-on decision with the city. And I could, I see the lift district coordinator for the city to get that in there when we moved from bike lanes. We had, originally we had bike lanes and sidewalk, and we had a multi-use path, so that's where that went in. And again, I want to comment that knowing the school was on the west side of the road, west side of the east side of the road, academy, I was driving to the academy on the east side of the road is where we have the 10-foot sidewalks, which gets south of College Road, even out that traffic. We have foot traffic coming from the traffic center as well as foot traffic from the academy and that area. Tell me this, define this driveway for me. Can you take the point of, Scott, one of the young ladies who believes that it's going to affect her driveway? Explain the graphic, I'll come back to you, you have a question, and I may be incorrect. Could you explain that graphic again, just briefly, on the left, please, the graphic on your left? Sure. This is Collins Road, coming left to right, this is Old Middleburg. This is what's going to get built starting in a month. Two lanes off Collins onto Old Middleburg, heading toward Argyle Forest. One lane going Old Middleburg toward 103rd. Then on Old Middleburg, you're going to get a dedicated left turn lane going onto Collins and a through lane going past Collins, heading south toward Argyle Forest. On the northbound, you see the striped out area? This is temporary. When we build the next phase up here, again, starting next year, this will be one lane and a second through lane going all the way through. You see the white gear meets up with the hill. So you'll have two lanes going through plus a turn lane going onto Collins. So when we build up the rest of it, you'll have two lanes all the way up and down Old Middleburg, both northbound and southbound. Now, I didn't see which lady asked the question. Did I answer your question? Well, I'm going to come back to you in just a moment, but I was a little confused. But if you look on both sides of the street, one side is that new development that's to my right, at least to your left. There's a new development there, that store and whatever. And then on the left side is where the library and the fire station and all those other things are. So I don't think that affects your driveway, but I'm going to come back to you in a second. Andrew, if you can come over and get the comment card, please, from Ms. Gayle, if you don't mind. Thank you. Hey, Scott, I love asking you questions. I love answering them. Yeah, right, perfect. Last C-Tap meeting, we got weird. Check, check. Yeah. I asked a question about the fire truck apparatus in terms of making these U-turns. I think you alluded that some sizes of fire trucks will not be able to make these U-turns as designed now on Old Middleburg Road. I'm just confirming that you verified that or looked into it is the question number one. And then question number two is on this specific Taylorfield Road, I know we've raised the safety issues again, but I want to make sure that, Jason, that you are looking at maybe a redesign of that area, maybe like a design variance, a form of design variance of that specific location that we can either provide input. We're all about safety, but we're looking at access to every road coming up and making the left of those residents. Is that still in place? Let me take a look at these designs. All right. Let me start with the fire question first. Some of you may not know I attended the Southwest CPAC meetings this earlier, actually it's last month, and then two months ago, briefing them on Old Middleburg and other things, and Steve raised this one. So I've contacted Chief Scott Mills with JFRD to ask about once this is built, how would they route their apparatus? Obviously, you know, there's a fire station in the south there near Old Middleburg, so it can clearly come up to Taylorfield and everywhere else very simply. The question that Steve asked me was, what if that apparatus is busy and they have to ask support from another one? I haven't heard back from Chief Mills yet, but I want to ask that question so I can answer it directly. Would they have that already figured out? And then also looking forward, I want to make sure that we're talking to JFRD as we would go to Jason's firm or another firm and say, let's design this road. Think about this kind of question. You know, a year, a year and a half in advance before we're ready to start construction so that we could try to anticipate those issues and design for them. So to answer your question about fire, I'm trying to get a direct answer from the JSO. The smaller apparatus can make the U-turn there, and I think I sent you what we call auto turns. It's a computer simulation of how does a vehicle make a U-turn. Passenger cars, like we all drive, those can make the U-turn and make it into Taylorfield. There's actually an extra lane on the Taylorfield side of Old Middleburg in this design to the east so that you can make that wide U-turn. Vehicles towing it like a boat trailer, they can make the U-turn. Bigger vehicles can't. Semi, a large delivery truck, those cannot make the U-turn without running up on the curb and running off the road. So we accommodated as much as we could without buying more land. Steve owned his frontage there on Old Middleburg. We bought some land from him, but we didn't buy a bunch more because, again, we only want to buy just as much as we need. So the answer about how big a fire truck to make the U-turn, I don't have that answer yet. But obviously, if you have my number, my email address, you probably know where I live. I'll get you an answer. Sure, go ahead, Jason. Just one thing to consider when you talk about emergency vehicles, emergency vehicles have the right-of-way for the entire road. All the auto-turn movements that we run as engineers, all the auto-turn movements Scott's run, they're turning from that left-hand turn lane. That fire truck, if they're in an emergency situation, A, it's a non-able traffic separator. It's a large-wheeled vehicle. They can run straight over the traffic separator if it's an emergency. Or they can also use the entire right-of-way to make that turn. And so you're talking extra 20 feet of pavement that they have available for them to make that turn as well. That's why you have a design engineer who's thinking about the details. That fire truck southbound could swing over to the right to make the U-turn if they had to. Because, again, they're going to put the lights on. If someone on Taylor Field needs their help, they're there. They'll move traffic to get there. And public safety, I know one of the things. We're going to come back to you in just a moment. But public safety was consulted before these decisions are made. They bring in the fire team, the other teams, to make sure the public safety is consulted. I want to also say, let me ask a question I'm going to you. When you, there were some residents to the right of the, if you're looking to the, I'm going to take the pointer, to the right of this area, there are residents that live over to the right in that area, over up top? Up top, yes. Yes, on that side. Can we confirm that this will pretty much be the same, so that residents who live on the other side of the crosswalk will not be adversely impacted? There's a little bit of driveway tie-in on this particular driveway. I will say thank you so much for the church, but they are spreading on a very large aspect screen, so the image is spread this way. So that driveway is just a little bit to keep it out of the intersection, so that driveway is not in the crosswalk or in the intersection of the conflicting traffic. So there will be some tie-in in the front yard to get that driveway tied in. The driveway is currently a little bit closer to the southern property line, so we'll be working with her to get that driveway all tied back. But the setup should remain roughly the same as it is now. So, ma'am, it should not affect your home or your driveway coming out. Yes, sir. Did we get to Mr. Stasco? We did. Okay, I want to make sure your question was answered. Yes, sir. All right, I know the Taylor Field Road people are fighting for their access, but do they realize that most people on Oldwood Road, or a lot of them, are in the same position? They're not going to be able to turn left. I ain't going to be able to turn left out of my driveway to go down towards Argyle. And coming in from 103rd, I'm going to have to go to a U-turn to get to my house. But I know you all will fight me, but, you know, if you can't be given to one community, and I'll give it to everybody, I appreciate it for that. Thank you. And it's important. One of the things I try to do in my job as representing everybody is to take into account, and needed to tell you, when this project, and here's the thing, we're now doing simultaneously, I'm not going to bring it up in this meeting, but simultaneously, we're working on Oldwood Road and Schindler. And why need Schindler as well? I can't tell you. I've got a lot of people calling me like, why would you do two roles that we need at the same time? The money hasn't been there. It's been 25, 26 years. The Better Jacksonville plan was passed in 1999. It's been over 20 years. And I thought, meaning to tell you, I've said this story over and over. My first day in office, I was so excited because this was a new chapter for West Side, or so I thought. And I had a public meeting over at the Argonne Library. There was standing room only in this room. And when I left, I had to go have a beverage, a special beverage when I left. I'm sorry, Lord, I don't know how to go. But they beat me up one way and down the other. They told me, well, we've been waiting on this one. I'm like, I haven't been elected 10 minutes ago. I haven't even had a chance to know where the restaurants are in the city, y'all. But they told me, you beat one man, and it brought tears to my eyes. He told me, being here, he said, I know that I'm not going to live to see this road done. I'm not going to live. I'm glad that I made him. And he told me, he says, I'm glad that you made me tell the tale. And he said, glad you made me out loud. I'm just messing up a little bit. But I tell you, I get it. I keep the problems. But we got to look at, this is a project that is going to revolutionize the West Side. I want us to have the same quality of life, the same amenities as Manor, as Eau Claire, as Southside, as San Marco. I believe this is, our communities are just as picturesque on the West Side. And so that's what this project is meant to do. That's why that, that was so important to me. I think one of the questions that came about, one of the mothers had a question. I don't remember who, so forgive me. Will the retention ponds be fed stock? All you have to do is take a drive down on Little Bird Road right now and you'll see the answer to that question. Right now, we know that there were several deaths. Council President Nick Howland has just convened a special committee on youth drowning. We know we've had, I think, in the last month, maybe three drownings. One is too many. One is too many. Two of them, I know, were autistic children. But they drowned in retention ponds. They were on the north side, but one of the things that I was very intentional about is ensuring the safety. I know that could be a problem with children wandering into the pond, but also people driving into the pond. So we made sure, if you look at that retention pond that's in the center of the road, on the northern part of Old Little Bird Road, you'll see that the old retention pond is fed stock. And I think that is so very important because it adds that extra barrier of protection, but it does give pristine beauty to that area. And I believe when they, that finally, you said the DOT cut through from 103rd Street, is it open yet? Okay, because the last time I went, maybe a week ago, it was not open. But that road, it's very beautiful. So those are the kind of things that we want. So I'm guaranteeing we will address your issues. Yes, the retention ponds are being fenced off. But here's the thing. If that was something that we put in, we cannot, by law, mandate that. But the reason being is because retention ponds themselves are a state statute mandate. So what do we do? I can certainly work with you. But what is most important is that if there are issues that deal with the state level, that we get together and talk to our state legislators, talk to our state senators, so that we can make sure that our needs are being heard. But we were able to, we couldn't mandate it. What we certainly couldn't do is make sure the thing was going to stop. And it is. And so it's very protective. All right. We are running up on time. Are there any last questions? Any, any one or two last questions? I'll take them. And then we need to get out of here because I'm so, I don't want the church not to let it come back next time. Well, I had that. We'll take up an offer on various issues. You know, hey, I ain't no picture, but don't push me. I had this two-part question. So I heard the first part answer about the fire's trucks and things. The second part was, though, I understand what you're saying about safety, Scott. I understand very well. But they're still looking at a potential redesign to address our concerns for Taylor Field Road. Let me jump in. There will be a potential. They're going to look at it. Allow them to do that first and get it back to you. So a potential redesign to allow Taylor Field Road. But we're not going to look at just Taylor Field Road. As the gentleman said, we've got to look at everything in the aggregate to see is this something, that communities of love there. Because I'm not going to be responsible for saying Taylor Field Road, yes, and then not that area, and then not the area over there. We've got to do what makes sense financially. We've got to do what makes sense safety-wise, number one. And then we also have to make sure that, aesthetically, it works with the plan that we have. So I guess I agree with that. I don't get updates on any of that. He just told you he was going to reach out to him when he's done. That's what he said earlier. You will, but you can't have him. So you get it. I hear what you're saying. There's no way he can. I know he looks like AI, and he's real smart. But there's no way that he's going to be able to output that two seconds I checked, GPT. I know you're smart. Steve and I are both Purdue graduates. Oh, I don't know. It ain't Jackson State, so you're not. I appreciate it. Seriously, you will get it. Because he's going to keep me copy on those emails. And I know, Nina, all of us, we want to make sure that you get your needs met. But we want to make sure that the entirety of the community does get those emails well. I think that I've answered most of the questions. If not, you will have access to all of us. We're going to make sure via email that we recap this meeting. You'll also be able to find it. Andrew, did the city say that they were screaming or no? I know there was some AT&T issue. All right, so you'll have an opportunity to have access to this from the website. We'll make sure to send out the replay and the recap of this, of the recording format. I know there were some issues today with IT. I think the technology with AT&T or somebody, I saw the email come through. So there's been some issues. But even though we're not screaming live, we'll have an access to this meeting. And you'll be able to still put your input in. I want to thank you. Thank the public's work department. Thank BTU. Thank all of the city employees. My chief of staff, Andrew. I can even call Andrew over and over. Andrew, thank you for helping to facilitate this meeting. I know it's been a lot, especially with us living in the budget season. But he's doing a really good job. Andrew Powers, thank you. AJ from our city public information team. He'll be interviewing some of you before you leave. Please spend a few moments with him and let him know your thoughts. Because this project is historic for the West Side. And I'm going to wrap up by saying we have an opportunity, especially with things like the Wonderland Corridor, the Old Middleburg Project, and other projects on the West Side. We have an opportunity to ensure that this community, my job is not just about what's happening now, but much like the Councilman Draper handing this off, I want to be able to hand something off to another council person when I'm out of here in seven months or four more years, whatever it is. I want to make sure that I hand off something that is ready to roll, something that we can look back on decades from now and see that the work we did here and now is something that our grandkids or kids' grandkids will be proud of 20, 30 years down the line. And I think, unfortunately, in many spaces, we're at that right now. We're trying to build a new jail downtown. And some people will say, oh, you don't need to build a new jail. We do. We have this city of well over a million people. I think we're at a million three now, a million four. We do need a new jail downtown. The jail's falling apart. I was on the jail committee. I toured it. It's in bad shape. We are, as one federal judge says, one incident away from a federal indictment. And so when I hear people say, well, we don't need a new jail, one of the reasons why we do need a new jail now is because we didn't plan effectively 30 years ago. Well, I want to do it while I'm on my watch. I have the benefit of learning from what happened then. We can do that now with roadways, with business development quarters, with all those things. So I appreciate you being here today. I'm always going to be here if you have questions. Thank you. We're not going to always agree, but what you can't know is that regardless of what happens, I'm going to work to make sure your voices are downtown. So thanks again for being here. I bless you and enjoy the remainder of your evening. Take care.