Local Planning Agency - Mar 11, 2026

early so you're ready all right good evening everyone and thank you for coming tonight the March 11th 2026 meeting of the local planning agency for the city of Dunedin will now come to order the local planning agency is an advisory board of citizens appointed by the city commission this board is comprised of volunteers who represent the thoughts and concerns of the community the purpose of tonight's meeting is to make recommendations to the city commission regarding each item on the agenda tonight's format will be as follows I will introduce each item on the agenda after which the city representative will present information about it thereafter the members of the local planning agency will have the opportunity to ask questions of the city representatives finally anyone from the public may come forward those from the public wishing to provide comment will need to approach the lectern for their comments to be recorded individual public speakers will be limited to three minutes of speaking time and we kindly request that speakers are respectful of the clock countdown on the wall there citizens speaking on an agenda item or during citizens comment shall not engage in loud boisterous and or disruptive speech or conduct any speaker that has continued inappropriate or irrelevant comments will be asked to relinquish the podium by the chair okay so with that let's move to item 1a the first item on our agenda tonight is to approve the january 14th 2026 lpa minutes are there any corrections additions or deletions to the minutes no hearing none do i hear a motion to accept the minutes as submitted sally do we have a second second okay uh paul seconds okay it has been moved and accepted uh all those in favor signify by saying aye aye any opposed none motion passes unanimously okay wonderful item b presentation of module two of the recommended and draft land development code updates staff presentation will be started with by george uh thank you chair vice chair uh members of the board george kinney on behalf of the community development department uh we're very pleased tonight to have our uh land development code rewrite representative uh in from kentucky uh this this afternoon for you to present module two uh as the lpa knows you are standing as the stakeholder group for this particular project we are really starting to move along and you're going to get a nice presentation here and i am going to actually turn it over to kathy to introduce steve and then we'll do that presentation and we'll welcome any feedback you might have so thank you very much mr chairman thank you george welcome steve welcome kathy kathy thank you and congratulations chair vice chair i'm kathy gadamer i'm with the community development department i'm the project manager for the department as well as the land development code update project this is module two that you'll be hearing tonight as you know this is the whole project is to reduce inconsistencies reduce conflicting language and pulling recommendations from the ordinance review committee and add a new few new provisions so all in all the whole project will make the land development code easier to read and simpler for the user in the end so that's our goal um so i'd like to introduce steve sizemore he's on the consultant side of the of this project he's a project manager with kendy keith and behind me uh kevin nirenberger and he is our planner and he will be here to answer any of the current zoning questions that you may have that um when steve goes through his presentation if you have wanted comparison um kevin will be here to answer those so i'm going to hand it over to steve now talk about module two thank you thank you kathy and kathy's been awesome holding me accountable making sure i get things in to her in time to get to you and others so it's been fun um so tonight uh everybody hear me okay sorry for the interruption we've just got one member uh just showing up okay so tonight i'm just going to give you an introduction kind of an overview um of what the contents are for this part of the uh the drafting um we call it module part uh but really this is we have the second of three parts the first part we when i was here last time uh was in february january okay january um where presented the zoning districts and land uses and such this time um is more into the site development provisions same goals obviously just wanted to bring this back to you um we're looking to modernize your code in terms of making sure uh your standards reflect modern practices but also modern ways to present the information as well making sure that your code is legally compliant where we have the opportunity to implement your policies from your comprehensive plan and then a key goal as kathy mentioned is to really organize this in a way that's more intuitive and easier for all users you staff the applicants to use and then what you'll see is this idea a lot more of this tailoring uh the standards the development standards to really kind of reflect uh dunedin's character and in the process and the next one will be more about streamlining but all of this is about streamlining just making it easier to understand what you need to to do if you do the right thing it should be an easy process right so um and then create friendly uh development code so we are here today which is somewhere at the kind of the end of module two technically i'm drafting module three close to finishing that as well so we're kind of in between that but we're in the the march phase of the project with it you know wrapping up later this the middle to the three quarters of the way of the the end of the year so we're getting towards the finish line on this um so module two articles um are the development standards uh article four for the concurrency which we did not change at all we're just carrying it over into the new structure uh subdivision design minor updates and i'll i'll give you an overview of that and an environmental design um that we did not change at all we're just carrying all those provisions over just making sure that everything is cross-referenced and consistent with the remainder of the city code and and the rest of the land development code so kind of that's where we are um kind of a bigger picture of new approaches that that you'll hear me talking about tonight um we're updating the development standards where where it's where the opportunity is to reflect best practices um we're practical so lighting there's some new uh recommendations for updating your lighting standards parking landscaping in ways that reflect uh that would serve a better outcome for dunedin implement the the strive for 2035 comprehensive plan and the orc the ordinance review committee of the city commission making sure that their requests are um are implemented in this update and then simplifying and reorganizing and grouping all the site development standards together in one article so you'll see how we've done that in various parts but currently uh the standards in various places in the current land development code so if we can get it all in one place it makes it so much easier for everybody and then align the standards to be consistent with the zoning districts and uh the new structure for for how the land uses are organized so that's that's kind of a bigger picture idea so i'm going to dive into the individual uh articles and the specific provisions in the development standards overall like the general approach to it uh one of the new approaches is basically just communicating where certain things are applicable and when and how much and such so that right up front is an example of how you can streamline this just by making it less confusing for everybody the staff here knows this very well and they're very good but if they were to leave tomorrow which i hope they don't or you had a new planning commission the next people should come in and understand intuitively how this is organized and functions so all development standards are one division we pull in the building code standards so no change into that and then we're approaching we're basically by putting in this we're we're looking at where new construction redevelopment change and use expansions communicating what is applicable and when and then the article provides guidance on the general development and tailored to particular uses within each one we looked at the thresholds there's not a big change but like over a five-year period the only thing that would be effective would be lighting and and and performance so not anything else everything else would have to be would apply but like i said the key change here is just communicating when something is applicable without having to read in the chapter in in the text so building and site design in division 3.2 um we did not we are not and i say we our team and with staff not recommending any major changes to this carrying everything over but organizing it in a way that's just easier to understand when uh how a particular set of design standards are or when view occurs so putting it into one place in one table to where it's just easier to follow this there's a new table to define applicability thresholds which defines the project category the applicability threshold the applicable areas and then a specific cross-reference to the standards that apply to that nothing new in terms of like what how it's done and what's done but how it's under how it's uh read as the key the the only new thing that's here is the trail oriented development standards and i'll talk about that in a moment this is unique for you and unique in general for the in the country and i'll talk more about that in a second right now um since the other ones are not changing we felt because of the design review processes and the standards that you have everything seems to fit pretty well so um the key is the structures there so we we're not changing those but the the trail oriented development standards are new um but they but if you were to walk outside right now by by the pinellas trail you would see how it would look uh you have it because one people have either done it voluntarily or through the negotiation process over time it just was done right but those type of standards are are the exception in certain terms of of elsewhere and even even here it's it's good to have it codified so you can secure that that look into the future when when new development happens near or adjacent to the the trail so with this is to just to make sure it reflects the importance of the trail and other trails in the community make sure that development reflects that character but also just leverage that uniqueness of the trail so this would be applicable to multi-unit developments along the trail mixed use commercial and commercial properties that directly abut the trail so making sure when that those are at single family homes would not have to address these but all the other scales of development types would um and with these standards we're introducing how the trail would be accessed and connected from that site uh how the trail frontage orientation is uh not in the rear if unless it's fronting on it uh but to make sure that there is a instead of a blank facade uh ensuring and in the picture of your existing uh the restaurants there and the shops along the trail is a great example of how trail oriented development looks on the ground so there's trail that those are great example of ground floor activation port transparency the windows making sure there's not blank facades that you have eyes onto the trail so a sense of safety in that making sure that the buildings are set back enough from the trail to where there's still some space for that you want to make sure there's design there's landscaping and amenities built in to that making sure there's not parking directly on the trail or adjacent to it or there's buffering between that so just ensuring all those type of of factors are addressed in the design on our team is tool tool design group and i have worked with them directly they've reviewed this as well the comment was that they have not seen this type of thing codified you see it conceptually in plans and uh but to see it in a development code is is unique so i'm hopeful that uh you are among the first to have very specific codification of trail oriented development uh would you like questions now or take them at the end let me let me get through this and we'll okay we'll come back to it if you don't mind sure uh parking and loading uh parking loading stacking and access right um basically this is how vehicles and and and and pedestrians circulate on a site minimums and maximums are already in use so we just carried that over but we aligned it with the um with the the change in how the use tables organize so it reflects that and the uses that are reflected in that um also just wanted to make sure that the shared parking standards are updated to reflect uh current practices and how you can calculate those so that's kind of a new approach uh the parking parking dimensions were were kept uh in their scale and the dimensions that they are but we expanded that into various um drive aisles uh angles just basically taking those but if you had different applications of those and put those into graphic form as well just to be consistent with the rest of the update um also included a section you had some accessible well the the current accessible parking standards refer to the florida building code and the state which which is right and it's still there but we also added uh actual uh standards that reflect the national the national standards uh as well as the um drawings of how those would would look so when when an applicant needs to know how to um to include how much how many uh accessible parking spaces to include and how to do that so that that is easier for for them to follow um the off street loading is updated and this is really kind of you had some but but limited this is to really reflect the best practices in terms of um the scale of when you have a certain scale of a building or or use and how to to screen and protect uh this any effects uh to the adjacent properties especially residential so making sure that is addressed uh just to minimize those those impacts the stacking um this is an area that we're seeing in a lot of communities around the country post-covid emerging uses such as uh you know these kiosk coffee kiosk like obviously starbucks but you know dutch brothers and etc so you have a lot of drive-throughs you don't have a chick-fil-a you probably i don't know if you do or not but you may not have a chick-fil-a here but i'm saying these types of uses have forced the planning field to to expand and understand better how to address it so uh we've introduced some new standards uh that provide a a more expanded way to measure uh the spacing the drive aisles the the organization of that um and so that is that i wouldn't say it's new but it's it's a new uh approach to it that that hopefully makes it easier to administer and get better outcomes um and and one of the key things is to ensure that there's minimal impact upon the right-of-way and spillover from those uses so design in a way that you avoid that um on the off-street parking design i mentioned that we carried that over but we just i added some new types as well as the districts where where certain types are permitted and such so this is this is just an expanded expansion of the vocabulary of parking dimensions not exciting things but but a better communication of it you have parking garage standards but what uh there's a variety of treatments of parking garages so we've expanded that and we're working with staff currently to make sure that everything is consistent with this introducing uh kind of defining the types of parking structures so there's four different types we have introduced here tuck under parking which you have some of that already uh standalone parking garages which i don't i don't know if you currently have any of those but if you were to have it this there are specific um you have existing standards we're just adding to that um activated structures which you do have uh the one on douglas is a good example of activated structures where you have the front is uh as as retail and there's a residential mixed use in there and then integrated which is something that i understand you may have in a proposed project so where you have the parkings in the interior of the site so these are just better uh defined parking structure types if they do come along you have at least have a a wider vocabulary a wider typology of how to administer that on the tree preservation landscaping and buffering component this is um there's some new approaches to this that i think will will be uh helpful for for for dunedin really one including graphics and putting things into tables in a way that makes it clear to understand what what is applicable but also ensuring that there's transitions of proper transitions between varying uses this is not a new uh concept for for dunedin it's just communicated and organized differently for you now on the development landscaping part there are some new components to it that we're introducing for one consolidating you have the your these landscaping our standards in various parts of the current ldc so pulling them into one place is a great achievement just along so um but also including some new standards related to building foundations so um when that would be applicable for example uh when it when uses just making sure i get this right so yeah so if it's like a multi-family like a larger multi-family that's not in the down in the in the cra um they would have to do foundational planting as an example just communicating that or if it's a larger non-residential or mixed-use site uh the properties in the cra would not be uh would would not be required to provide the foundation planting just an example but there's updates to site and parking landscaping and uh introducing a an option for alternative alternative compliance landscape plan so where if the applicant wants to introduce a different variety of plantings and styles that that are different from this without having to go for variance but just different enough they can work with the director so it's a it's like an administrative adjustment um just within a certain threshold so this is this is a new tool for you and then we're codifying substitution ratios for plantings just making sure that there's a consistent ratio of how plant trees and bushes and what's required um is done at a scale that's appropriate also um what's new is to we're maintaining key components that you currently have but kind of defining standards for perimeter corner and the median island plantings in parking areas there are the the terminology is is um things like fingers and diamonds and such and it's it's kind of hard to understand intuitively so just changing that but also adding standards for how those apply in a parking lot design so it just makes it gives developers a more objective but with flexibility of options to meet the the requirements also requirement for corner islands it's not currently defined in the ldc so like this uh letter a is an example of a corner island obviously um i think just making sure that's clear so a minimum 200 square feet with one canopy tree or three or ornamental trees as an example of what that would be um the perimeter plantings we're replacing what's what's currently referred to as fingers um out into the parking lot but with a continuous six foot wide perimeter strip along the entire parking lot so we're still working with making sure with the arborist and working working with staff to make sure these are calibrated calibrated correctly but one of the key things is that the structure and the graphics and everything is are new in a way that just makes it much more functional for you on to lighting standards this is new your previous standards have i don't think have been updated in well over a decade and uh don't reflect the the most contemporary approaches to lighting standards especially with the technology of the lighting types but also um as cities have have used the dark sky uh lighting practices we have much more knowledge on this and so dunedin's a perfect place for that with uh with the coast here so we want to make sure that we reflect i think what the residents of didn't even would desire as well so we've we've updated your lighting standards reflect that so there's details on fixture types and standards um reflecting that but also you know with cutoff requirements fixture heights these are things that you currently have but this just defined a little bit further um minimum you know with minimum levels mitigate off off-site impacts obviously the all the positive things you want to ensure with the dark sky approach uh one of the the newest elements that's introduced is is uh is regulating for color of light um which has various impacts upon uh you know light pollution and protecting the dark skies but also uh impacting human and wildlife circadian rhythms and so just want to make sure that these measurements are in place and and our way to to to impact the quality of life here in terms of lighting on the subdivision design standards generally carrying over everything as as our ldc currently has but just kind of updating a few uh new standards introducing some new standards updating street typologies to reflect the the transportation plan but also to to make sure everything is cross-referenced properly with the rest of the ldc the new street typologies are brought over from the transportation master plan those street types are neighborhood downtown core community connector major connector minor arterial and principal arterial and the key thing to understand is all this is reflected in one table but not likely to get a lot of applications or of this but where it will be important where you do have a larger site uh if there are introduction of new streets on that so you at least have a a typology and a mechanism to to to design the streets according to the master plan so that's the key in making sure that's codified um the other thing that we've introduced are kind of more about you're not going to get a lot of these but just making sure it's articulated is related to block and lot standards links widths shapes of blocks not likely to get a lot of subdivisions in Dunedin it's mostly built out but if you were to get a a large site redeveloped you have standards in place that ensure that you have that connectivity um and they reflect the existing uh pattern of of Dunedin and then not very exciting but something that's kind of new and uh articulated in a way that it reflects the state uh requirement but just making sure markers and monuments reference the standards of the florida society of professional land surveying practices act it was not in the code it's assumed but you just need to make sure it's articulated so little small details so uh in general that's that's uh we are we're wrapping up um drafting in module three currently staff is reviewing um these these provisions that that i'm presenting to you tonight to make sure that they are everything is reflective of what they would be able to administer and so module three will come back and present on the processes um and so those won't be too there won't be too much change in that it'll just be much cleaner and easier to understand where things fit so in terms of our schedules so we are we're kind of here at the module two uh trip five the next trip as i mentioned will be will be um coming back to talk about module three and then public hearing draft later on after we've come basically consolidate all these these first three modules into one final document and to make sure everything is aligned and consistent and um i guess uh defensible is the best word for it so good and i could take questions okay uh quick question for everybody before we go forward just because there was a lot of slides different topics we two ways we could do this one is we can go person by person but that could be bouncing back and forth the slides already covered or should we just sort of go through slide by slide everybody asks their questions kind of go through that way might be easier okay okay can you go back to let's start to where it talks um article three development standards can we go back to that slide and we'll start there unless anybody has any questions on any of the slides prior to that this one correct correct okay any questions on what is new in the development standards uh yes um just so i'm clear that you're reorganizing all of this which is certainly wonderful but will you also be offering new standards for the areas where there will be new standards that's right and that that's i've tried to articulate that here just to make sure that i identify what's new so the slides do state what is new right i got that they were going to be new but will you be the ones developing those new standards they are drafted oh okay yes thank you that's that's what's in the draft okay sure i'm not getting into the weeds in terms of the the measurements of those yes um but that's where staff is going to make sure that it's correct thank you and we'll be sure to bring back the ordinance and um all the staffing that you need um one in one of your lpa of hearing workshops so you can actually read the language thank you anyone else uh kathy i've got a question just because i know this is fairly becoming more common in dunedin but if someone's making an addition to their home where they want to add a separate in-law suite would that fit into this middle section that references the 50 percent more 20 to 49 less than 25 percent where where would that person we're going to have kevin answer that are you talking about accessory dwelling unit provisions right yeah so those those will stand on their own and there is some state legislation pending that's going to modify some of those provisions so we'll have to do we'll have to do a look at that kind of outside of this process okay so that would be separate because here it does talk about impervious surface it will be included as it's currently written with no changes so maximum 800 square feet and all that kind of good stuff but there are some pending legislative changes well i'll have to bring that back to you guys so stay tuned yeah stay tuned got it okay good okay let's move to the next slide uh division 3.2 building and site design okay any questions yeah go ahead under the trail oriented development you talk about amenities does that include a requirement for bike racks bike racks are part of that yes and is it required or you would hope it yes it is required okay yes okay i mean basically there's um there's a menu of options okay so they have to they have to meet a certain amount of like three out of i forget the exact number i apologize but there's they have to provide like three of six different items and bike racks would be one of those okay thank you you would hope they would provide that next to a trail yeah but if you're not specific somebody might not well on that comment i mean that's the kind of comments we need so we could we can look at that section now and maybe tighten that up to suggest that you know bike racks are principally required but maybe then you have to pick two from the remaining options yeah that's absolutely right so we can we can work that yeah because otherwise you could have you know somebody has 10 spaces for bikes and somebody has none and then you have bikes all over the place and as steve mentioned earlier you know most of what's happened along our trail has been organic and it's kind of naturally worked over time this is really for those sites like if you think about the old coke site right making sure that we're turning a face to the trail as part of that redevelopment and outside of the the trail standards they still have to meet the site development requirements of parking for example so bicycle requirements are in that as well okay but then when you do like bicycles and all that it'll still have to go through review on design like making sure that the bikes that everybody doesn't stack them all at once absolutely okay yeah the thresholds don't change for design review so it'll have that form right i'm just saying that if you had to have a back rack that it's going to be so many feet off the trail that it has to be at a certain height it's going to be all that i don't know if we'll get that ingrained but there'll be details as to right because i just think on the trail if you have everything uniformed or everything nice it's not going to look like a mix of going down a trail understood i need to i need to confirm this but um with the bicycle parking standards there is reference to national standards or guidelines i guess is a better way to put it so the apbp the association of bicycle bicycle pedestrian and bicycle professionals i'm sorry have published and what that's commonly referenced uh parking uh guide so those type of things so where george and staff doesn't have to decide what what's the best way but these are pretty standard approaches okay and and while you're on it just very quickly so like that you solve a golf cart parking too one of the things we're trying to do is incentivize some of the parking down particularly downtown to pull in a little bit more golf cart parking so that we're still working on that we're going to refine that but it's kind of like the incentives that we already offer like the transit discount and the bicycle rack discount the things that you've seen through the design review process so we'll be working on those provisions as well so you're going to be looking at bicycle racks golf car parks so those are some of the newer things that we're just gonna but we've got to tweak them based on your feedback you know how how we implement that from a project you know perspective given the trail as it is does it meet all of the new standards the trail itself is as outside of the right yes i think of the of the city that's a county facility so yes okay so i did not ask correctly then do all the buildings adjacent to the trail meet the new standards i have not measured each one to tell you the truth you know just i looking at it on the eye i would say that the majority of them would definitely qualify i mean especially the ones right here in the downtown area and if they don't are you giving them so many years to come and come compliance no or is it just going to here's the date and moving forward no yeah they would be considered legal non-conforming since these are regulations but um you know if if they were to redevelop significantly or something along those lines then we would implement those standards this is just to ensure that new development that goes adjacent to it it's fine yeah three are you going to be are you going to be here next month for that according to the calendar and then are you dropping lower with more detail no you're saying the details in the draft okay yeah no they're i'm just giving you a higher uh overview of what's in the draft right thank you yes yeah so you guys will get the detail at the formal at the formal considerations but this is the opportunity to provide this kind of feedback that you're giving us it's perfect so we can start to tighten some of those things up a little bit based on what what you bring to us yeah just one since we're you know talking about uh changes uh going on in downtown so like specifically the ocean optics property if you were to take a look at that uh was that will that fit what their plans are to uh what the new uh development codes are going to be absolutely yeah yeah that that development group as you know kind of went up and beyond and they actually committed at the commission meeting to not only implementing but maintaining uh all of their trail connections and amenities and so forth so yeah i believe they that's kind of a model example to be honest with you okay and then along the same lines with their parking garage since it's a separate property not connected to the specific property does that have its own and does that or will that meet the in the new development codes yeah so that so that one um you know i don't know to be honest with you we'd have to kind of take a look at that one they they are they did when they offered that ability to maintain those connections and make those improvements that extended to that property at that parking garage on douglas so um but i i don't know the answer to that i can't speak confidently to that without going back and taking a look at the plans and seeing what we're doing here but i would i would certainly presume it'll be uh close if not there and certainly much better than the retaining wall that was out there the issue with that site is there's a little bit of slope to it too so it's a little bit more a little bit more of a difficult site because it it basically drops off um so um so it's a good question paul because i'm not not 100 sure without taking a look at it but well and i'm just thinking too from the standpoint of if we're developing new standards and that's going in we don't want them to be what not conforming the next time they redevelop they have to change it so it'd be nice if they go in and have everything and knock it out of the park yeah yeah and and you know working with them is pretty simple you know the thing is we're not refined to the point where we know exactly what those standards are going to be yet and they're that's obviously already under construction or at least uh on its way so i don't know if i can hit them at this point but um you know we can i can go back and certainly take a look at it over the next couple of weeks and see if there's anything we can do on it thank you james good you're good i've got just a couple questions um question this says section 3.2.3 on the slide prior it talks about section 3.26 is there another section or is that just a typo i'm sorry it's a typo typo or or i just want to make sure so going forward if that is one of these clarify that i'll just have to confirm that yeah this slide might be there's not a section we're not hearing about no okay no the slide could actually be incorrect as opposed to the table okay i would say based on the subsections in the um in the draft i would say the the table here is correct okay okay good um then i've got two other questions so one on the trail oriented development standards how does pinellas county work with this and are these in conjunction with pinellas county are they consistent across municipalities does you need to have some unique rights here yeah how does that work it's it's a little bit of everything you just said so it's county owned um we've had some discussions with the county myself and bob in particular where they are amenable to additional trail connections but in return for that they want um some assurances that it'll be well maintained uh there'll be some um you know care and and thought going into where those connections would be and that kind of thing so those discussions are kind of uh taking place i don't i wouldn't say we're far enough along for me to say this is exactly what they would do or wouldn't do but um there's opportunities now a lot of those opportunities come then i think sally mentioned it before the meeting i think for instance there's certain sections of the set of the trail that we actually maintain um um because of some of the trail oriented development that's occurred in those particular areas i i would assume that practice would continue if we want to do something a little farther up the trail or a little farther you know north or south but um those kind of discussions happen as projects kind of come online um but you know we're bob and i are working with the county to see if we can get some more interaction with the trail from our from our trail oriented businesses so we've got a little bit of an opportunity to set the benchmark maybe for other yeah and i think this trail oriented development piece is a really cool piece to be able to go back to them with and say look we're not we're not asking for these connections without any structure we're asking for this knowing that you're going to get something that is superior to what you're going to see you know from any other community that might not have those provisions and this is and if i could interrupt uh it's it's for trails that are other than pinellas trail so it's something that could be developed locally correct and you have some of those already so right this is just the big one it's a big one it's the it's the interstate right all right one last question on the exemption parcels with single-family residential are what if any requirements are there and how they connect to the trail can they just have a gate on the back of their property line and throw down some papers right yeah they can't go what can they do they can't go inside the right way most people fence it off just because they for security purposes so you know none of that would change uh you know if if a homeowner wants to orient towards the trail they certainly can um yeah typically most people most when you see single family or redevelopment or new construction it's usually comes with a fence kevin will tell you it usually comes with a fence permit request yeah i'm very familiar with uh the monon trail in indiana near indianapolis and you go down that trail and you see a lot of homes that are that have like a gate to it but that's voluntary i mean they they don't have to do it okay so but their rights stop at the right of way the county's right away they can't right and change anything and if i paul might know it's a pretty significant right away i think it's it's 30 it's 30 foot total right yeah i believe so yeah i think maybe 15 of that being hardscape yeah yeah so it's it's pretty it's at least 10 foot on each side of the yeah yeah well and remember too it that you had the it was the uh trains that came through there so yeah we think we think about it for pedestrians and bicycles but back in the day it was the freight trains that went through it have to be at least 30 feet yeah it might be more i don't know but okay that's what i kind of remember okay any other questions i got one more oh we got two more all right yeah i just and correct me if i'm wrong i just need to ask a question isn't it true and i've seen this somewhere that they're darker after dust i just want to know how this is going to play a role with the trail and all of us building stuff and having nice stuff i just read that i just want to know this correct i i you know i i've heard that i don't i've never verified it i think that's accurate it's a county park and i think they close at at dusk or at nightfall but again you know as we're working through some considerations in the downtown we can have those conversations with the county and see if there's opportunity i just we're spending the this money and i think it's beautiful that the trail is getting very nice and we're bringing all these things into it i would that that was just a question yeah those those are items that are outside the scope that's an item that would be outside the scope of yeah that's part of the land development code okay that's more for us i just was because you were developing the trail and codes and things so i was just asking it was be more people there okay and um just a little bit on that too i i want to i want to say you you are correct it is um until sunset or um or thereabouts but i also thought the city had a permit or something at least for the downtown area to allow that because we have lights and things out there where the rest of the trail you don't so george you may want to look that up for the next meeting what specifically dunedin has done and it's specifically in the downtown to allow the trail still to be used after dark yeah for sure i'll get i'll get bob to come in bye and then um hopefully my last question is um is the the city held to the same standards so if there's a parking garage uh on scotland uh and or any other developments that the city does along there it depends on the zoning so if the if the if the zoning is downtown court yes uh if the zoning is municipal public lands which is what most of our municipal facilities are zoned um they are there is some freedom within that zoning category to do uh some things that are outside of the scope of the land development code kind of like weaver park and good questions let's go to the next slide uh division 3 p uh 3.3 parking loading stacking and access questions no just kudos for talking about low speed vehicles and golf carts yeah good okay let's go to the next one um parking design off street parking design any questions there okay we're doing well we're doing uh how about the next one uh parking garage types if nobody has a question i do we'll probably never use this section well i was curious like so now we're defining these different types are there any different standards by type that yes the the the new language introduces um a set of of design standards for those types of how to treat certain parts of the of the design making sure certain parts are activated um and there are current design there are design standards but it's really just it just says parking structures and then here's your design standards so and those yeah those remain in place those remain in place but it's not they may be tweaked a little bit depending on each of these different types okay but that'll be in the detail when we get the big book you'll see yes you'll you'll get a big book and it will be a big book i think i'll be sick you're more likely to get a tuck under parking uh application more than anything if you get like a row of townhouses or yeah something like that but not as much of the other types good okay let's move to division 3.4 tree preservation landscaping and buffering questions do you have on landscaping well i'm just going to reiterate the kudos um you know i um sat on the um development committee coming in and and you could see the the folks when they came in their eyes got really really big when they you got down to the arborist speaking and talking about all these different things that they had to do for their parking and everything else so having something like this that's going to be a visual for them and to be able to see the specifics it'll also help out uh you know the landscape architects as well and and everybody should know what what they need to do and how it will kind of sort of look uh when it's finished so that's the goal yeah good thing and i i would agree with this kudos and especially talk about the concept of buffering probably a lot of people aren't familiar with that so it'll be good for people to start becoming more aware right what that is and why so good job okay 3.4.2 developmental landscaping now there's a bunch of new stuff in here more questions right okay i'm going to ask one what what's what what is foundation plant building foundation planting sure at the base of a building in the front so someone builds a facade and without any plantings on the most people do it anyway yeah i was looking today driving through i mean you don't have requirements but most of the buildings along 580 have some form of foundation planting it's just um but this is to make sure it's consistently applied okay and then that takes into consideration um somewhere in there too like the the irrigation and and i know um there's uh one of the green globes golden globes lead certificate certifications they when they talk about outdoor landscaping there are certain things that you they want you know even for residential they want you to have plants but they want them so far away from the house not right up next to it and things like that so yeah consideration those kind of things that's a good question i want to make sure yeah we're blessed because we have our city arborist here so anytime we have a landscaping package or presentation we always forward that to rick for his review and comment and he's i know he knows those kinds of things but it might be good to maybe maybe make him a little bit more cody coat like yeah well i just yeah referenced into you know what's actually required so we we can look at that yeah okay i have one more um on the option for an alternative compliance landscape plan um are there any guidelines for what alternatives are acceptable it says according to the director but could you define a little bit for me what an alternative compliance landscape plan would look like are we talking about low water use right so they they just have to demonstrate and convince the director that if they're going to present something different than what is required in the standards does it have to be as good as or more than right exactly yeah and again that's where i would really you know if i i kind of we like we kind of joked before we came in here i said maybe that should say city arborist instead of right because you know obviously that's something i would pass along to the city arborist and would say to him is this do you think this plan is as as good or as good as whatever the base criteria would be and i would kind of i would use that as my as my starting point now whether or not that needs to be more clear because i'm not going to be here forever obviously so well i would i would be worried about you know an argument ensuing about what is the alternative does it have to be at least as good as yeah we can look at that a little more service or that kind of thing a few guidelines around that yeah it is nice to have that flexibility though just in case like we and we offer a lot flexibility in other parts of our code like for design review we offer the alternate architectural design style so and those things are great so if because it it you never know sometimes somebody says hey this is going to be better than what you're what you're prescribing can we go with this and keep in mind that the applicant if they don't like what the director is you know going to approve they can always go through a a process for a variance sure um which they would want to avoid just because it's time and money and yeah you know depends on the board question i would agree with elizabeth though it might be good to put a basic parameter around that because otherwise what do you what am i being judged against and they and it just creates a a very subjective argument which just spends a lot of time no great point yeah we'll look at that it is it is detailed the provision is detailed it's it's not just hey you can submit a alternate if you want to see if the director likes it that's why i asked what that would be what kind of thing that would be because and we'll yeah we'll continue to keep refining that you'll see that as part of that final package james yeah question on the uh the three small trees equals one large it seems kind of ambiguous what it what it's just an example i i don't i can't defend that example i'm just stating that there's um that there are trade-offs you can you can you have various options you can do three small trees rather than one large or you can do uh bushes there's different ways to achieve a similar outcome i um that's just a menu of options is is all it is ironically my uh neighbor had uh some some wonderful large oak trees that were taken down and they and at the time there was uh as i understand it was 30 inch wide so they had to replace 30 inches so he did 17 two-inch trees there we go and it's uh it's now a forest yeah and uh and there's a limit to you know he put them all on the outside edge of the property so it was growing over our yards and stuff and in the the the it can be a nuisance and with what he has done and in uh pollen season and shades over trees and over uh pools and all that other kind of stuff it's uh some some limitations i think uh may be in order too there is a we are we are carrying over the the approved plant list which includes and that's been vetted for years here so that there's only certain types that they can apply for this and how how close they can go to the you know if they know it's going to be a correct a magnolia tree that is 80 feet tall right so the other thing you know we we will make sure the arborist has a very hard look at this we unfortunately i can't speak to landscaping too much because we temp we typically turn that immediately over to to them for that kind of review but we did already put them on notice that we're going to be sending them these these provisions for the review but we'll we'll send that over with the understanding that you know we want some limitations on particularly up against neighboring properties and we'll figure out what to do with that i also think that they can also say something similar where instead of saying a small tree say an accent tree and change the name from small so they're not confusing what is a small tree versus some sort of accent tree because sometimes you can do three accent trees are beautifully there's they don't grow as high but they'll be equal to shade of this one major shade tree so that's think it's just trying to get the equal amount of shades and tree but the accent trees you know like you create myrtles and things like that that would be more complementary to some sort of landscape development closer to the streets and things like that that i think it would be something like that like a tree accent list for smaller trees in version to large trees which would be your uh albums or your but jesus sorry no you got it i've planted a lot of trees in my life like probably 40 trees at this point myself but uh try to always be considerate i don't know how you legislate that we'll take a look at it yeah we want to look at it probably when we get the the big book yeah that's a fair question because people will find a way there will be unintended consequences like you said with 17 two-inch trees yeah all right good any other questions on that one okay let's go forward to 3.42 developmental landscape on the parking lot here okay what questions here okay okay can you just clarify for me on the bottom there it replaces fingers with a continuous six foot wide perimeter is a is a finger where it just a little landscape section that breaks up the parking it's b on that graphic basically okay it's that little skinny part in between the two end caps okay can we just call medians so this is really existing language it's just with different terminology because it was the the fingers and the diamonds were like like steve said earlier it's hard for people to understand what those are okay so it's really trying to get a little bit better terminology and then of course including the graphics so people can see what it does okay so a question if that's what that is so if we were to rebuild the parking lot across the street here for the city again would we have to have a landscape strip in the middle instead of the cars coming right up to each other in those rows yes this is owned npl mr chair okay got it all right yeah no this is just on a going forward basis the diamonds are out there though yeah i can always say consistent with consistent with okay i just i like a visual reference and that helps a lot thank you for answering that honestly yes appreciate it okay okay let's go to uh outdoor lighting next slide yes quick mouse there we go okay okay questions okay i'll kick it off um on the top graphic you've got the five different lights there um when would can you describe at least in generalities where each type might be used and then also on the also on the color scale right are there requirements for specific temperature scales or would those vary based on the application and can you describe that as well right there's a threshold on the color um as i recall i think it's somewhere like 3 000 or 4 000 is where anything below that's fine um as i recall on the the fixture types um what these represent are preferred or not preferred but but uh examples of what would would um comply or not so for example you want shielding full shielding so basically c through e would be the desired uh outcome as opposed to a and b good where you have light trespassing got it but is this also going to be depending on where they are like the core versus outside the core and things like that because i almost feel like being downtown you need safety wise maybe well that's a good point because i don't think we'd necessarily differentiate it's you know this would be outdoor lighting as it would pertain city-wide but um you know we can look at um something that's a little more has a little more trespass from a safety perspective now we're not looking at necessarily at um i guess we are looking at right away lighting here i'm not saying that you know that the lighting that you can say to people it's going to protect you because you know you have to watch where you're going anyway i'm just saying if you were downtown and there's a lot of people that maybe it needs to be brighter than if you were somewhere else like a residential scotland or something like that that's all well and there might be other ways to accomplish that too so i know you know there's a lot of up lighting for landscaping in the downtown that you might not see outside of downtown there's there might be some other things we can do that aren't necessarily um you know fixtures uh you know taller fixtures so we can we can look at that it's a fair question and and there's also and like like george was saying there are other items at play for example lights within the right-of-way street lights and such are also present so this is for on on-site particular and and the real goal is to make sure that there's it's protected against trespassing light trespassing so but the question in terms of how does it apply to um how it applies to various districts is is a good question that i want to make sure we get right because that's also how we're applying all the other standards too is context based so you want to make sure that the lighting is is contextual to to the particular location it's gonna have to take in the consideration between the commercial and the residential as well because if the commercial properties adjacent these residentials are going to make sure that the light doesn't go over to the property line except over a certain illumine and so you you know some of these lights won't be wanted where you know commercial and residential even if it's in the downtown core you're still going to have that commercial residential right there's a lot of people who live downtown now that it didn't used to be right you know what i mean so you have to take in consideration but you're going to have like the really want yeah a light going in someone's rooms because you're going to have a lot of the uh you know this the uh townhomes that are going to be right next to some of these commercials and they're not going to want to have that light being on douglas i mean at least we're up but on douglas a good example was grant street and we there were some issues across the street from when i initially went in because those fixtures now they weren't they weren't necessarily site fixtures they were wall fixtures but there was a lot of glare going across the street and we had to step in from a code compliance standpoint to have them trim those up a little bit to make sure and you won't know until somebody complains and you can go out there and say hey we can help you let's change it so that can also be that it can be tweaked but they can also require a lights keeping plan in the plans for a site development where they have to show the lighting plan and what the illumines would be going on to the residential properties and so i think it's like 0.6 or 0.6 or something i mean that's a great point if you remember the flats design review they had a a photometric plan that was included as part of that patrick uh that that package and it showed the light spillover onto adjacent properties and we basically had zero light spillover onto adjacent properties same way with the lighting at the pool at the artisan i mean when we put it up we you have to have lighting on a pool i mean period but it was going in so we had to tweak kind of certain things that it didn't go into the residents windows it's hard i mean you'll get it but it's just so so this provision would prompt more of those photometric studies and we would we would have a good look at that through that review process system the fixture types and the spill part of the review plan they included in their civil plans where they have a photometric plan that they can make sure hey george can i just clarify so you you um would this apply only on developed parcels what about for example like i'm at victoria place right down there by best western and edgewater and we get a lot of ambient light from the marina as well as street lamps duke street lamps uh on the right-of-way and in edgewater park how does how does it apply in those kinds of scenarios well so for right-of-way a lot of a lot of times it depends on who owns the right-of-way so if it's the county they're going to have certain standards for lighting if it's state they're going to have certain standards for lighting the marina you know again is npl there are there are some things that uh maybe are done on those properties that you that don't necessarily conform with code but are you know intended to be you know but that lighting's probably been down there for a long time as well right so but it has been yeah but hopefully the city will also be trying to follow these well and that's part of it so you know natalie as you know will have a lot of input into this she does a sustainability court scorecard as part of the design review process so those discussions will be had even if it's a even if it's a city project let's say we're talking about the marina if it comes to design review committee natalie's going to have that input she's going to talk about dark skies and then we're going to be able now to point to this provision and say you know if this was a development outside the npl these are the provisions that would apply so we'll have that we'll have that message to carry by including yeah good yeah because i think as we develop more of these main arterials there will probably be more of them right away but you're going to have mixed use properties and so you know light shining through bedroom windows is if we mitigate that that's good yeah yeah no we need to do that what are the questions um just and maybe once again it's in the details but um we're talking colors and types of like fixtures and stuff but what about the intensity of light the lumens right that's there too that's that's updated as well okay that's just a reflection of the current way to measure lighting based on the current technologies i mean the color is just something new in general most of the older codes don't even address color but under dark sky approaches it's considered yeah you're trying to stay more with those daylight colors versus the blue lights right all the associated reasons okay we're not talking color like um like your led you know the one you get on your phone app where they can change it to green or blue it's it's the the hue of the actual base of the light yeah yeah okay good okay let's keep moving uh division 5.2 subdivision design standards should we get a subdivision at some point like where i don't know where it's going good any questions okay uh does anyone have any other questions on the last ones otherwise i've got one just for the drafting phase could go back one slide um here yeah the i know we talk about public hearings is that the lpa meeting or are we actually going to have an open public meeting to to look at these further you mean as far as public workshops alone public meeting yeah so we i mean kathy can run through the public workshops we've already done we've done several of them uh steve will be here tomorrow night at the state of the city um for for public input as well um we i know we did a survey as well to kick this thing off to you didn't we no no we had we had just stakeholder conversations but yeah things on the website yeah there was individual stakeholder conversations the project website uh through uh the the communications team is i know up there'll be still a few workshops in front of the city commission prior for prior to formal adoption consideration kathy's also taking it to all of our relevant committees so she's going to take it to the cra advisory committee she's going to take it to the arc uh public safety uh environmental sustainability we're going to be out there quite a bit and she's already been out there quite a bit but there's a lot more to go and then there's a minimum of three public meetings for the adoption process itself because this will be an ordinance so that ordinance will come to the lpa it'll go to reach to the commission so but before we get we've still got a lot of outreach to do before we get there we'll also be on the pinellas trail this saturday from 11 to 2 um even though it's not celebrating florida bike month uh we're bringing the land of all my code with us okay yeah good so yeah and it's been out there and we'll anybody and i you know kathy is uh kathy's been taking it around to anybody that's asked as well just to talk about it so once we get a little bit more meat this is still kind of the development stage so once we get a little more meat on the bone we'll get uh you know we'll get out there even a little bit more i think it'd be important to work with sue on the communications plan really give the public their chance for sure help assuage a lot of emotions if they don't feel they were the good thing is there's not a lot of new content in here it's really just reorganization but there are some new new ideas and that's like the transit-oriented develop design is new um you know and as the as the commission knows you know this or as the board knows you know this will be ultimately reviewed by our city attorney we're still under senate bill 180 meaning i we cannot adopt anything that is considered more burdensome from that perspective so you know this might come in parts it might uh might come as a whole but a lot of it's going to be dependent upon the review from our city attorney and where we stand with respect to some of that legislation but but the other key piece to this was getting the ordinance review committee pieces in you know i know that was a long-standing goal of the commission so and that's what steve has successfully done that he's got a couple pieces left but we're getting those in um so it's really been it's really kind of followed the path that we hoped it would hoped it would follow so and we it's like like we said it's going to be much more user-friendly a lot of graphics um and you know definitely thank steve with we're definitely heading in the right direction in my opinion so yeah it definitely does and really appreciate you sharing more information with us and it's exciting looking forward to to seeing it and i think it will be very uh easier to use yeah yeah yeah it'll still be a long read for you though when you get it good and we also hope to be back next month with module three which is more of the development review um processes and like the project management of everything so good good we're planning on it april 8th yeah one of the other key parts of the next module is the non-conformities which will be a key component how are those managed what are they so because those those are the type of things that often are the response to a lot of questions good okay uh with that let's go ahead and move does anyone from the public wish to speak on this okay all right with that we will close public input um michelle do we need to vote on anything here today it's just purely informational and okay got it all right any last comments before we move on okay wonderful okay uh item 1c recommendation of a new alternate member to the local planning agency we have one alternate vacate vacancy on the lpa roster and although it was an action item on our previous january 14th meeting this item needs to be repeated as though it never happened due to a missed vote so with that uh we will open the floor to nominations for applicants to the alternate vacancy and chair if i may you may i see a couple of uh participants in the audience tonight i know i recognize one of our applicants is either jude or sharon here jude okay jude i believe this is your first time coming to lpa amazing well thank you thank you for that confirmation so just so you are aware the board of our applicants only one has not attended so therefore they the requirement is that they must attend an lpa meeting to be considered our most recent applicant sharon has not yet attended an lpa meeting other than that i can confirm that all others have and also we have two applicants in the audience this evening got it john are you an applicant or you are so we have three of the four jude sylvia oh i'm so sorry sylvia i'm so sorry i see you now i apologize yes indeed three three applicants today i apologize got it my apologies for that okay um i know last time we gave them an opportunity to speak we did we should do that again sure okay um if any of you would like to come to the lectern and uh give us your elevator story for start with the z i'm usually at the end so how about if i get to the beginning this time sounds good okay my name is jude zentmeyer i live at 95 milwaukee and i've been here for 15 years i love it um a week doesn't go by that i don't sell somebody that i live in paradise i raised my three children in tampa and now i'm very happy to be in small town dunedin and i'm getting ready this weekend to go visit my my newest little great great grandson great grandson only one great so i'm another floridian actually he's a fourth generation conk they live in key west so anyway um i am very involved in the community i'm a lifetime member of the vfw i live right down by the stadium in the vfw so i'm a lifetime member of the vfw most sundays i'm out on the porch at the american legion having breakfast i usually ride my bike so this has been very interesting tonight to be hearing so much about the trail because i ride the trail all the time actually i ride all over the place and basically i guess what you're talking about tonight is the five miles from union to curlew and that's the discussion tonight and i'm very familiar with that um i ride with a bunch of ladies every tuesday there's about 20 of us and we ride 20 miles we ride all over the place up to tarpon into tampa we ride all over the place so i'm very familiar with rules of the road and bicycling and i love it i love it uh let's see i'm also a member of the dunny and boat club i don't own a boat right now but i've been a sailor forever sailed all up the east coast sailed to all the bahama and caribbean islands um jeez i guess my story about my sailing yeah uh grand cayman over to isla mara mexico so i've done all that uh let's see what else can i tell you um i would like to be a member to be able to put my two cents in as to what's going on i'm very very very happy with dunedin and i'm very i am involved in having a voice i think that's very important and not i don't i know i don't have to agree with everybody all the time nobody agrees with me all the time but uh to be able to come to consensus with people and then work out what's best and it's a beautiful city i like to i like it the way it is i'm kind of i'm actually very glad that we have boundaries and so we can't go any further than union and we can't go any further than curlew and then belcher so and the water so we kind of we're not going to get too too too big and i really appreciate the fact that we have a limit on how high our buildings can go and i've been to a lot of the different meetings where they talk about uh what is it the the sunshine the shade the something something that um you can't go you can't infringe on your neighbor being able to see sunshine or something i forget what that's called thank you yeah yeah that's it and i think that's smart um i love the idea that i live in an area that we don't have any hoa whoop i'm done okay thank you very much thank you jude and thank you for all you're doing for the community okay sylvia john i'm usually in front of you uh advocating for the residents or the businesses but the reality is i am and probably will continue to be a developer so i've built many things i've rehabbed many things most of the things i do is come in and i fix something but when i think about what the meeting you just had i think about when when when many people think about land and development and construction they think about permanency they think about oh this is the land and this is what i could do but the reality is it's a race you know from the moment you identify a piece of land and and you find it viable hopefully for a specific purpose and hopefully all the trees fit and the buildings fit and the sidewalks fit and and you could put the bikes in the right place and and if you get all that done and you really do a great job which is only maybe which is a lot of work and then you go through all the changes which is expensive it's expensive from time and money and then as you walk up the rules change right and all of a sudden you got to go back to the drawing board and then as you're building it the actual building the physically the building is is really one of the easier parts to actually getting the building approved and how dynamic and how that changes and how history changes and so on and so forth we're talking about trail and we're saying wow it's a wonderful place when the reality was it was a railroad it was a stinky railroad it had a lot of stuff and you wouldn't want to live there the houses are built so they're farther away from the trail now we're talking about oh let's put great lighting and let's make it fancy so things are constantly changing and i think that is what i love about the lpa is that you have this grocery list of all the things that have to be done and all the ways they have to be done and and is it a two inch tree or an eight inch tree but at the end of the day you guys determine the rules to a certain extent you go well you know you get it this you need a variance for this this isn't going to work it could have worked before maybe it won't work again but that's a lot of what you do is make things possible and the more you make them possible the more our city is able to be a nicer place to live because if we don't reduce the old stuff and make new stuff we're not going to have a great place to live and when you look at the competition st petersburg safety harbor newport ritchie tarpon springs they're not waiting thanks all right thank you john thank you for your blue jays support okay sylvia everyone i'm sylvia tazikas i'm cc writers i'm i'm uh i've been in the town since uh 1990 i've invested in this town i've accredited investor a business owner i've been on a lot of different boards through the city as well as through the county i everything we've done we've always done for dunnegan we've always looked out for everybody i think that i i enjoy being part of this community and it's really important for us to be wholly a part of it not just looking at our little corner when we do things we always do things that benefit everybody in the community be it advertising be it buying you know making sure that the right tenants are in our properties we always try to look out for the best for everybody in the community and i just feel like being a part of the lpa helps me with what we have as well as being able to i guess invest my knowledge and and time into giving back to the community as well thank you thank you sylvia okay okay uh we now open the floor to nominations uh for the alternate vacancy we were just talking kevin about being able to ask them questions since we don't get access to the resumes ahead of time and i have some questions for some of the is there any reason we couldn't do that michelle no problem okay all right let's go all right you guys are maybe back up well we come back up in the same order this is important to us as important it is to you i just love it all my life has been last so i'm here have you been on any other city committees i was on the safety committee years ago with uh don story i don't remember uh he he's since deceased but uh don story was one of the members of the safety committee i i still have my shirt that has my name so you got the shirt it's not a t-shirt it's a real shirt yeah and i'm also a windlass i forgot to say i'm a windlass so i'm very involved also with our waterfront are you familiar with the way that the the committees work and you talked to me i was at i didn't really want to continue the conversation because there's answers in there but are you familiar with the way that these committees work well when we meet when i first heard from michelle probably at least 10 it was at least 10 years ago so every year i she keeps she sends me an email says are you still interested i say yes and i come here but anyway um i understand that it's a citizens and we're not really or you all are not really you have a voice to the commissioners you can't really vote on what is the yes or no but you can influence the commissioners and i think that's very important because the commissioners you know they can't really listen to error everybody in the city but uh they can certainly listen to this group and so i think this i think you'll do an important thing here being able to come to an agreement as to where you are and then be able to give that voice to the city so we are republic not a democracy so that's very important anything else so you said for the last 10 years michelle's been sending you emails to see if you wanted to be on it yes and you've never gotten on it in 10 years no there's always been at least three or four of us and for whatever reasons they were chosen over me i think when you said that we influence the commissioners we don't influence the commissioners i think that we take the knowledge and what we get and we ask questions and we research it and that's that's what we would do but by no means do i feel like we influence the commissioners you don't take your opinions to the it's not our opinions we're listening to what the people say and and am i right oh oh the the materials that were given oh okay well i'm surprised i thought you had a voice they simply watch what we've done that's we ask questions we find we dig we find out what and we present it to them okay we do vote and make recommendations to the commissioners to go forward i do think we have some influence by the questions we ask helping the city helping the developers come with the best the best proposals possible okay okay that so that that it might be semantics yeah okay okay well it's it's it's it's important i remember uh years ago when julie was uh the mayor and a nice form was sent out to all the all the residents and it asked so many different questions and i thought that's really good because i i'm i got the questionnaire i would assume everybody did and to be able to keep your fingers on what everybody thinks because we all do think differently for sure and then to put it all together and decide what's going to work what's going to work for the city and our parks i like i said i ride my bike up to tarpon springs i ride down to all the parks down in uh st pete over the tampa and pinellas county has fabulous parks we just have fabulous parks so whoever's taking care of our parks is just exceptional but we also go on trips we load up our bicycles and we go down to sarasota or we go up someplace else so i'm very familiar with biking any other questions and sailing okay all right thank you jude thank you thank you john you're up i have a question sure how many committees have you been on and what committees have you served on how many committees have you served on yeah i currently am the uh vice chair i guess of the stormwater advisory committee um i ran for mayor as you may know and i helped uh it was one of the founding uh founders of the ddna downtown neighborhood association which stands for the resident side and i worked on the ddma but as for uh advisory committees that was it i've kind of kept my distance because i wanted to be on this side of the table thank you what made you pick the stormwater committee well two hurricanes for sure um well actually three um i feel like there's a there's room for improvement there and i think i can help um but it's it's a long haul changing stormwater is a long haul and it's a lot more than just increasing your bill every three years so um i'd like to make say we're making progress but i'm hoping that we will soon good thank you any other good questions okay nothing hard no math you said don't give me any okay all right thank you john thank you sylvia your turn do you want to know how many committees i've been on thank you ladies have you been on uh well i was on the cra advisory board for 18 years i've been on the ddma board i've been on the chamber board i've been on the um the jolly trolley board and i'm on um i guess the rotary i was not on official board or on the on but i've also gotten a paul harris award from them um i try to get being so busy at the restaurant as well but i i focus on the boards that that i can do and help with and my knowledge as a as a restaurateur as a investor as a realtor i if i can fit and help a committee with different things that might not be on that particular committee but i will be an advisory to them as well so if they have any questions they'll call me and ask me hey what do you think about this or how can we do this so i'm if i'm not on the committee i'm also helping out in other ways that i can thank you you're welcome thank you okay thank you sylvia okay all right with that let's go ahead uh we'll open the floor to nominations of an alternate for the vacancy i'd like to nominate sylvia i'll second that okay we have a nomination and a second okay uh with that we are um before we do that is there any public input i guess we've already handed it um okay we're going to close public input then okay uh we are going to do a roll call vote okay so we're going to start uh one by one tim i'll go ahead and oh you'll go ahead and say okay wonderful thank you make my job easy and so that i'm clear we have the one nomination no others yeah is there any other nominations before we do a roll call okay okay okay member broome aye member karen aye member johns aye member telford member young aye vice chair stanick aye and chair benjamin aye okay all right motion passes unanimously sylvia congratulations uh the next step will be going uh our recommendation will go to the city commission for final approval and just for the record i'm going to read those votes back in okay just to be clear here so for our alternate recommendation of sylvia tozikis we have member broom voting aye member karen voting aye member johns voting aye member telford voting aye member young voting aye vice chair stanick voting aye chair benjamin voting aye that is seven unanimous thank you michelle thank you good okay with that our agenda is wrapped up for this evening so we will go ahead and adjourn thank you everybody