afternoon. Welcome to the September 18th, 2025 Community Redevelopment Agency meeting. I'd like to call this meeting to order. Carolyn, you're in the seat today, so the hot seat. So, okay, before we start, time for citizen input. Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak on a topic that is not on the agenda? Okay, seeing no one, I will close citizen input and we'll move to business and that'll be draft minutes from the May 22nd, 2025 Community Redevelopment Agency and I think there's some changes that Carolyn might have before I ask the rest of you. Just page two, Bob had mentioned the old City Hall Park, the budget for the restrooms, it's $500,000 and the minutes say $5,000, which I'd love for that to be correct. Right, I would too, but yeah, okay. All right, and are there any other changes to the minutes or corrections? Okay, seeing none, can I have a motion to approve the minutes? So moved. Second. Okay, motion and second and all in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, motion passes unanimously. Okay, then we'll go to Community Redevelopment Agency annual independent audit on the staff presentation, so I'll ask Jeff with, or I'm actually less with Jeff to come forward. Good afternoon, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commissioners, Les Tyler, the Finance Director. I'd like to just make a few general comments and I'll turn it over to Jeff, our auditor. This is our 24 redevelopment agency audit for the city. I just want to mention that back in 2020, there was a federal statute, statute 163387, that required that each CRA fund have a separate audit, so we're following that guideline since then. The attached audit is in your staffing today for the 24 audit, and Jeff Wolf, a partner with the firm, is with us, and I'll turn it over to Jeff to go over the highlights. Jeff? Thank you. Good afternoon. Good to see everybody again. I will be pretty brief, as you may or may not be aware, these financial information is already included in your ACFER, but as Les mentioned, a state requirement now requires standalone audit and standalone financial statements, but really, this audit is really about compliance, not so much of the financial numbers. It's really about, is the revenue, the TIF being calculated correctly and deposited timely to the bank? Then ultimately, are those expenses allowed under your policies and your CRA plans? That's really what it's about. It's about compliance, and you'll see as I go through the reports, I really won't touch on the financial information that this was a clean audit, and there's really no compliance issues with the city's CRA. So first is our independent audit report, and that's on page one of the financial statements. This is a report on whether those financial statements are materially correct, and again, you had an unmodified opinion, so that is the highest level of assurance you can receive that the financial information is correct. Our next report is our internal audit report on internal control over financial reporting and compliance. Now, we don't test internal controls to render an opinion. However, we do test controls as part of our audit just to, you know, modify our audit plan if necessary. If we saw any material weaknesses or significant deficiencies in those controls, we would comment in this letter, but as you can see, this is a clean report, no findings, no issues noted. Our next report is really probably the most significant one, the independent accounts report, and this is really on compliance on, as it relates to Florida Statutes for Investments, and more importantly, compliance on the laws that govern CRAs. And again, no findings, no issues noted in that report. And lastly is our general required management letter. This covers a few several areas. If there's any financial emergency, any other reportable conditions that were needed to be not quite as high level as the internal control report. But again, no findings, no issues noted. So with that, that's really all I plan to cover. Again, just to take away that, you know, the CRA is being compliant with Florida Statutes and the laws that govern CRA. Great. Thank you, Jeff. And questions, Vice Mayor? Any questions? No questions. Okay. Commissioner Sandbergen? No questions, Mayor. Mr. Walker? No questions. Mr. Degard? No questions. Okay. And I will open it for public comment. Anyone in the audience wish to come forward and speak on this issue? Seeing no one rushing to talk about the audit. I will close public comment, and I will ask for a motion. So moved. Second. Okay. Commissioner Sandbergen? Commissioner Walker? Any final comments, Commissioner Sandbergen? None, Mayor. Okay. Commissioner Walker? No questions. No comments. Commissioner Degard? No comments. Vice Mayor? No comments. Okay. So, and I have no comments either, so all in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes unanimously. Great job, Leslie. Thank you very much. Not good enough. You did okay on that one, right? You're going to stay up here until it goes bad on you, or? Yeah. I think we need to take a break. One more. Yeah. That was a lot of work. Yeah. Yeah. Well, good thing you got here a couple minutes late, because then that'll push the meeting a little bit later. So, you know. Yeah. I know you did good. We know you had a little tea accident, so. Okay. So, we'll go to fiscal year 2026, Community Redevelopment Agency Budget Resolution 25-02. Jen, could you please read CRA Resolution 25-02 by title only? Resolution 25-02, a resolution of the City Commission of the City of Dunedin, Florida, as the governing body of the City of Dunedin Community Redevelopment Agency, CRA, adopting the annual and capital budget for the City of Dunedin Community Redevelopment Agency for the fiscal year beginning October 1, 2025, and ending September 30, 2026, and providing for an effective date hereof. That was Resolution 25-02, read by title only. Okay. Can I have a motion? So moved. Second. Okay. Commissioner Walker, Commissioner DeGuard. Okay. Staff presentation. Les. Thank you. Les Titer of the Finance Department. The community development rate, CRA agencies in the state of Florida are considered special districts. That's their definition by the state. So, they're required under Section 189.016-3 of Florida statutes to adopt an annual budget by resolution, and that's what we're here doing this evening. Some highlights of the CRA budget. The planned CRA expenditures in the 26 budget total, $11,241,000. That's very close to the 25 budget a year ago. Last year's budget was $11,473,000, just a couple hundred thousand dollars difference. We had a couple differences in some of the capital projects, but the year-over-year, they were pretty close in both years for expenditures, and on the revenue side for the CRA in the 26, we've got a revenue estimate of $11,442,000, and that's also close to last year within about $300,000, and that main increase is due to the fact that last year we budgeted the parking garage debt proceeds in 2025. We also budgeted those in 2026, but there was a $300,000 increase in 2026 for the proceeds needed, so that was the majority of that change year-over-year. The proposed budget for 2026, which includes the CRA fund, our larger budget includes this fund, as you know, and we walked through that in our budget workshop one and two. It was also presented to the CRA Advisory Committee on September 3rd, where the members voted unanimously to recommend the adoption of this budget. The city's fiscal year 26 tentative budget incorporates a millage rate of 4.1345 mils per Resolution 25-22, and that was approved by your city commission on September 11th, 2025, last Thursday, and that millage is for the general fund and the CRA fund both. This millage rate will be brought for final adoption to the city commission at the special meeting on September 23rd, 2025 at 6 p.m., and I want to mention that, you know, Exhibit A in this staffing attached to the resolution shows the 26 budget and long-range plan for the CRA fund, and this is consistent with what we have in our 26 tentative budget for the CRA fund as well. That concludes our comments. I'd be happy to answer any questions. Okay. We will go to questions, and I'll start with Commissioner Walker. Okay. Commissioner Dugard? No questions. Vice Mayor? No questions. Commissioner Sandberg? No questions. And I don't have any questions either, so I will open it up for public input. Anyone in the audience who wishes to come forward and speak on this issue? Seeing no one, I will close the public input, and I will ask, are there any final comments, starting with maker of the motion, Commissioner Walker? Thank you, Mayor. I, you know, no additional comments. Yeah, I don't have any other comments. Okay. Commissioner Dugard? No comments. Vice Mayor? No comments. And Commissioner Sandbergen? Nothing to add, Mayor. And I don't have anything else additional to add, so will we go to roll call vote? Member Gao? Aye. Member Sandbergen? Member Dugard? Aye. Member Walker? Aye. And Chair Franey? Aye. And that motion passes unanimously. Okay. I'll start calling you guys members now, so, yeah. There we go. Do we have to restart the meeting, since I said Vice Mayor, Commissioner? Yeah. Okay. Here we go. What's next? Okay. So now we're going to move to CRA Resolution 25-03, Fiscal Year 2025, Community Redevelopment Agency Budget Amendment with no net impact on fund balance. City Attorney, could you please read CRA Resolution 25-03 by title only? Resolution 25-03, a resolution of the City Commission of the City of Dunedin, Florida, as the governing body of the City of Dunedin Community Redevelopment Agency, CRA, amending the operating and capital budget for the CRA for fiscal year beginning October 1, 2024, and ending September 30, 2025, and providing for an effective date hereof. That was Resolution 25-03, read by title only. Okay. Did I get a motion? So moved. Second. Okay. Motion and second. Okay. Staff presentation. Les. Thank you. Les Tyler, Finance Department. This item, as mentioned, is Resolution 2503, and this is amending our fiscal year 25. This is our 25 current year CRA budget we're amending, and the amendment has no impact on our appropriations or fund balance. We only have one item that we'll be going over briefly, and just want to mention we're required to have the CRA fund and the CRA board approve budget amendments during the year as well as the City Commission, and that's why we're doing this here at the seat this afternoon. The one budget amendment we have in the staffing is that we have a reclass in the expense budget for the Skinner Boulevard project. We're reclassing it from improvements other than building to another contractual services account, and this is an account entry. It's a reclass entry that we've done to make sure we have the activity for this particular item in the proper general ledger account. This is for work that's being done for private property, the electrical work that's being done for private property, so we're reclassing this. It will not be a fixed asset for the city because it's private property, and that's why we're making this adjustment. And this item was presented to the City Commission on August 7, 2025, as part of the award to bid Skinner Boulevard Electrical Improvements for undergrounding to KCI Construction Services in Tampa, Florida. And also, as I mentioned, there's no net impact, so there's no impact on fund balance. Our available reserve in the CRA fund is well above the 15% target, and it's still the same because there's no impact as a result of this action. I'm happy to answer any questions. Thank you. Okay. Questions? I will start with Member Gao. No questions, Mayor. Chair. Member Sandbergen. No questions, Mayor. Member Walker. No questions, Chair. Member Dugard. Ditto. Okay. All right. And I don't have any additional questions either, so I will open public input. Does anyone in the audience wish to come forward to speak on this issue? Seeing no one, I will close the public input, and we'll go to CRA comments, and we'll start with the maker of the motion, Member Sandbergen. I have nothing more to add. Okay. And Member Dugard. Couldn't have said it better. Okay. Member Walker. No additional comments. Okay. And Member Gao. Nothing further. And I don't have anything further either, and we go to roll call vote. Member Dugard. Aye. Member Gao. Aye. Member Walker. Aye. Member Sandbergen. Aye. And Chair Franey. Aye. And that motion passes unanimously. Okay. Thank you, Les. I know that was a lot of hard work for you. It was in the preparation, right? Thank you, Jean. Okay. We'll go to 1E, CRA Resolution 25-04, amending Section 2 of Resolution 92-1 to eliminate the requirement for one ex-officio member of the Public Relations Advisory Committee and for one ex-officio member as a member of the DDMA. And so, Jen, could you please read CRA Resolution 25-04 by title only? Resolution 25-04, Resolution of the City of Dunedin, Florida, amending Section 2 of Resolution 92-1 as amended to eliminate the requirement for one ex-officio member to be a member of the Public Relations Advisory Action Committee and for one ex-officio member to be a member of the Downtown Dunedin Merchant Association and providing for an effective date. That was Resolution 25-04, read by title only. You're getting the best workout tonight, I think, right? Yeah, I think so. Could I have a motion? So moved. Second. Okay. And staff presentation, we will go to Carolyn. Good evening, Commission. Carolyn Homer, Economic Development Specialist. And I'm honored to be filling in for Bob Ironsmith. He'd be here, but he's in Daytona at a conference for the Florida Planning Conference. I might need some grace. This is my first time speaking to you. I just usually observe. We will give you grace. You got this. It's easy because all we're doing is taking out ex-officios that no longer exist for the CRA Advisory Committee. So, the PR Committee and the DDMA, which had joined forces. That's the way they word it, which is a nice way of wording it, with the chamber. So, they're still, you know, around, but not, we don't need a DDMA ex-officio member at the CRAC meetings. So, that's it, really. Okay. Well, questions. I will start with Member Walker. No questions. Member Dugard? No questions. Member Gao? No questions. Member Sandbergen? No questions, Mayor. Okay. I don't have any questions either, so we'll go to open public input. Anyone in the audience wish to speak on this issue? Seeing no one, I will close public comment, and I will go to the board's comments, and we'll start with the maker of the motion, Member Walker. No comments. Member Dugard? No comments. Member Gao? No comments. Member Sandbergen? Nothing to add. And I don't have anything to add either, so we'll go to roll call vote. Member Sandbergen? Aye. Member Gao? Aye. Member Dugard? Aye. Member Walker? Aye. And Chair Franey? Aye, and that motion passes unanimously. Okay, we are going to go to 1F, Community Redevelopment Agency Advisory Committee Membership Recommendation, and I will turn to Carolyn for a staff presentation. A while back. You're not new anymore now. You're on your second one, so you've got to be just fantastic now, right? Oh, thanks. I don't have to reintroduce myself. You got this. Go ahead. A while back, I don't know if you all remember the plaques we handed out to people from the CRA Advisory Committee who served from 18 to 30 years, so we've had a lot of changing of membership, and we promoted a lot of people so much that we forgot poor Doug Mote when we promoted three people to serve. We try to go first in, first out when we vote on new members, so we shifted everyone up, and it's just a formality. Doug has been with us in the CRA Advisory Committee meetings for a couple months. He's been a resident since 2016. He's very involved in the community, but it's just a formality. Okay, I will go to questions for staff, and I will start with Member Gao. Oh, I have questions. No questions. Member Sandbergen. No questions. Member Walker. No questions, but I do have a comment. I said it's Moat. Sorry. Don't skip over. That's right. Member DeGard. No questions. Okay, and so I don't have any questions either, so I'll open it to public input. Anyone in the audience wish to speak on this issue? Seeing no one, I will close public input. I will ask for a motion. So moved. Thank you. Okay, and I will go to the CRA comments, starting with the maker of the motion, Member DeGard. No comments. Member Gao. No comments. Member Sandbergen. No comment. And Member Walker, we know you have a comment, I guess. I know Doug personally, and what a great ad. He'd be perfect for the board. Thank you. Yeah, and I'll just add to that, ditto, ditto, ditto. I know Doug as well, and he's great. Great ad. So, okay, and so we're going to go all in favor. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes unanimously. I'm just wondering, Mayor, if Vice Mayor is Vice Member? I thought about that, but I don't think we picked that. So, no, you're not. But thank you for that input. Or it could be this is another board, so maybe not. So wouldn't that be interesting? Well, I was going to say, I think what it says is we have to change our policy and make sure we have a vice member as chair. Yeah, right? Okay. All right. All right. We're going to go to Community Redevelopment Agency Advisory Committee Chair Report, given by none other than Chair Alan McHale. Come on down. Good afternoon, Madam Chairperson and members, city staff. Good afternoon. Alan McHale. I'm the Chairman currently of the CRA Advisory Committee, and I'll keep this as brief as possible. I would just suggest that you keep Jeff away from as many vices as you can. I know it's a challenge. Clearly, there's a large number of projects going on in the downtown corridor, and the Advisory Committee have been kept abreast of the forward movement of each and every one of them by Bob and his staff. There's been two meetings since I last spoke here, one in July and one in September. At the July meeting, we received presentations on the Main Street Exchange. I think that was the third presentation we'd had on that, and one on the Tapas El Turco project. From the viewpoint of the committee, both of those projects are excellent assets for the city. Live music and good food at Tapas El Turco, and extra parking and retail at Main Street Exchange. It's changed, so what more could we ask for? I'm all happy with that. The Advisory Committee approved all of those projects. At the last meeting, we discussed the subject of food trucks in the downtown area, and the consensus was to have no restrictions based on the number of days or times that the trucks be allowed to operate. From our perspective, provided the food trucks meet all the licensing and insurance needs and comply with all the ordinances, then it should be the market that decides whether those trucks operate on one day or seven days. The only other subject that came up of concern was from a citizen who was in attendance who brought up the apparent lack of progress on Old City Hall site. It was a citizen's view that was not shared by the rest of the committee, because we all appreciate the large number of projects which are going on in the city at the moment, and the amount of resources it takes to keep all these major projects moving forward. Bob and his team, from our perspective, are doing an excellent job, and the Advisory Committee recognize that. And that's really all there was in the last couple of meetings. There's nothing really contentious for us, and we're happy with the progress that we're being reported to us. Thank you, Alan. Any questions for Alan? I'll start with Member Walker. The food trucks, did that, so the Advisory Committee said? Yeah, there was two motions at the meeting. One was, are we in favor of food trucks? And that was unanimous. And the second one was, should there be any restrictions against them? And the resolution was, no restrictions on it. Let the market decide. So there was two separate votes on the issue, and it was well discussed amongst the committee, and with unanimous votes in favor of the subject. Yeah, I was just curious on the background. I think it's great. We had, and, you know, around the table, there are a couple of restaurant owners as well as pub owners. So their view was very similar, that there is a market need, or if there is a market need, then providing the food trucks comply with the ordinances, and they're in the right place, then the market will decide whether or not there's a place for them in Dunedin. Yeah, no, that makes sense. Thanks. Mayor, may I? Yes. City Manager. So food trucks went to, the conditional use approval went to the Board of Adjustment Appeal yesterday afternoon. And I've been playing fo-tay with staff. It assumed it passed. I'm not sure about what conditions the crack had put in terms that staff was recommending, I think it was Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday hours. So, and it corresponded with the hours of operation. I'm not sure what the BAA did. Okay. Because as I said, I haven't managed to catch up with staff, but we will let you know. But it did go to Board of Adjustment Appeal yesterday. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Any other questions for Alan, Commissioner Degard? No questions. I'm sorry. I slipped, Member Degard. Member Gao? No questions. Member Sandbergen? I had a couple, Mayor, but I'm not sure if it's for Alan or if it'd be for Carolyn. I recently saw that Kiosk restaurant at the corner of Grant and Highland was up for lease. I mean, is there anything that can be discussed openly what happened there? They seem to have put a lot of money into that location. The last report we had was that there was discussions about parking with that particular project. There was nothing further to report, so that's news to me. Yeah. News to the committee, I would say, because I represent them. And I think I saw in the notes, minutes from one of the meetings, was there some discussion about golf cart crossing at Highland? Douglas is pending at FDOT approval-wise from ICE. I know they've been asking, but at Highland, I think. Yes. So will golf carts be able to cross at Highland? We are requesting of FDOT that they look into that. Is Douglas already approved? I believe so, yes. Okay. Because I have to be careful, because I know I've spread the word that both of them will be crossing. I didn't realize. Okay. But we are working on some resolution with that? Yes. So allow me to get a little more information and send it to you under separate cover. Okay. Okay. Thanks. That's all I needed. Thank you. Thank you. I was going to say, that'll just be a constant confusion. If one is and one isn't. Of course, I don't want them to say none is then, so we'll have to see what they say. We're actually seeing... I guess without law enforcement, it's got to be both. Yeah. We're actually seeing clarification from FDOT, too, about low-speed vehicles, because the speed limit is 25 miles per hour on Skinner now. Oh. Yeah. So we're talking to FDOT. I'm not sure. So then you'd be allowed to do it anyway. Yeah. It's a low-speed vehicle, which is plated, as you know. Right. And so on and so forth. Well, yeah, if you're plated. Gotcha. Yeah. I'm plated. We'll let you know. All right. Cool. Okay. Let's see. I don't have any actual questions for Alan, but Alan, as always, so appreciate all the hard work you're doing. Thank you very much. Really just appreciate it. Thank you. Going to see you in the morning, too, DCO. Oh, that's tomorrow. Okay. Okay. So any final comments on Alan's report? I'll just ask. Does anybody have any comments? Mayor, I actually had one more question, if I may. Sure. Go ahead. For Carolyn. It seems like forever I've been hearing about the Rock House. Is there any movement? I see heads being shaken now. I asked directly, and I didn't get an answer, so I don't know. Anything? Let me help out. Go ahead. So they did submit. The plans were reviewed. There were some issues. The first iteration was approvable, if you will. All the parking was on site. They changed the building footprint, and some of the parking then was partly on the public right-of-way and partly on public property. They're required parking. And so staff essentially rejected that plan because the code is very clear that required parking needs to be on the property, on the private property of the person who submitted the application for development. And so we have not heard back since then. Good. That's what I think. Okay. Anybody else have anything else? Okay. So we'll just keep moving. 1H is Community Redevelopment Agency Director's Report. And we'll go to Carolyn on behalf of Bob for that. Bob. So every Monday we try to have a staff meeting from 9 to 10, and we bring these notes. I'm just going to go through very big highlights. Keep it simple. For the parking garage, October 8th, the statements of qualifications will be submitted to the city, and then the five people on the committee will narrow that down to three companies, contractors. And we do have Martin here if we have questions about the details there because Doug has ended his second retirement time with us. So Doug is not – Martin's been a big help in that department. Doug is actually fully retired. Wow. That must mean Rochelle was retired, huh? Right. Exactly. There you go. Okay. Well, he's got to go have fun. Skinner, I won't mention big news, but there might be big news coming. And then we have KCI, the contractor, waiting on Duke to finish their part for the undergrounding segment. Again, if there are specific questions on that, we have Martin. Also, let's see. I know you all were asking about tree types for the landscaping portion of Skinner, which will be in the spring, and that's still to be determined. We should have plans by the end of the month. Moving on to former City Hall, we have two new – we have, again, I've said it three times, but Martin and then at – I'm probably pronouncing it wrong, but Terra Tectonics Design Group. So, Birgit Kibbelka is helping us on their end, and the two of them have been firing away at the punch list to try to get that done finally, because everyone wants that finished. We had to – we did some renovation, like, maintenance of the fence just to make that look, because I know we all want to stop renting that and move on and get everything moving. So, we're making progress there. September 26th, it'll go out for bid, and then we should have bids received by the last week of October. This is for former City Hall, which we're technically calling Old City Hall Park on paper now. I know it's had a bunch of names, but that's where we are with that. And then for Ocean Optics, which is Main Street Exchange slash the garage, the Main Street Exchange portion should be going to ARC on October 7th, and that is pretty much it. The gateway is the last, but there's nothing there. I think they're still waiting on Skinner to be finished completely, maybe landscaping and all, before moving on with their plans for the gateway area. Okay, we're going to go to questions. As I will say, I did come via the now open – I turned left on Skinner, straight up to Highland, took the two roundabouts, and got here tonight. I didn't know if I was allowed to say anything. Yeah, well, I experienced it, so I can say it. Anyway, so that was awesome. So, questions, and I'm going to Member Gao. Thank you, Mayor. I just hope with the landscaping, the shade is almost the only priority. It's very high up there. Thank you. Okay, and Member Sandberg. Will there be any overhead lighting to light those roundabouts, you know? I'm sure there is, but I do not know specifically what's involved in the lighting. There will. Okay. And the lighting is actually – it's specific to the downtown lighting as well, the upgraded lighting. 25 miles an hour, though. It should be pretty doable. I mean, you know, I came through there yesterday, and it's dark in that part of town. It's very – I mean, living downtown, it's one thing to navigate it, but, you know, vacationers and tourists, okay, so the answer is yes, it will be. That's all I have. Thanks, Carolyn. Member Walker. Question on the old City Hall Park. And this really is going to be a matter of what the next steps for the commission are. I know that we've approved the design review, right? And I believe we left some leeway to discuss the bathrooms again. It was – because I think we had a question with regards to, first of all, how the bathrooms get incorporated, and then there was a discussion with regards to phasing the bathrooms. So I'm just curious more on a timing perspective of when this is going to come back, because my understanding is we've still got a little work to do on that part of it or decisions to make. I'm deferring to Martin. Okay. There we go. Afternoon. I'm Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commissioners. I'm Martin Wade. I'm in the engineering group, and currently the set of drawings – the general contractor will build the foundation for a prefab bathroom, and they have about 120 days on their schedule for their work with the foundation work, paperwork, steps, and landscaping. We have a proposal from the prefab bathroom vendor that will come to commission with the contractor's bid. And at that time, we'll have the decision whether or not the bathroom will move forward or it will be stopped. So that's the process right now. Perfect. You know, that's exactly what I wanted to get clarified. Okay. Thank you. Okay, great. Member Degard. Thank you, Chair. I like it. See? That's what you get. When will the barriers come down at the City Hall Park? They're still under lease for six more months. It will be the contractor's option when they move on site. They'll probably take them down. Okay. I know that's going to be a day we're all looking forward to because that's when that whole area becomes functional again. Right. So six months? Probably construction January start, February, in a 120-day period. We have a PO for six months. I did it. I completed it, and I'm trying, like, heck not to renew that again. Is that a good time of year to start construction? I don't know that that's a factor. I think we just want to get it done. I mean, what do you mean, the heat? No, totally. The opposite. I think our spring is. City managers can answer, I think. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. It's the height of the season when we'll be constructing it. So I don't want to delay it. If we delay it anymore, there's going to be a firestorm out there. So, but let me talk a little bit about staging and how we're going to make sure, you know, we put signage up for HANU and so on and so forth that they're open. I think that we already have it up. So, and make sure that they stay out of the parking areas as much as possible and that type of thing. Is that what you're getting at, vice member? Yeah. I mean, that's pretty much it. I think they're okay if we delay it, there's a firestorm. But if we have construction during, I don't know that that will reduce the amount of. Firestorm. Yeah. But, so, yeah, to me, I'd rather push it off. But, yeah. That could be, I mean, it's a, I understand it's a balance. Is it possible to reduce the barrier size at all during this process in order that some of the area is more open? I'm just thinking that it's basically a brick in some ways. All that we can do is work with a contractor. We can't dictate these methods. Yeah. So, finally, Gateway Project, I'd like a little bit more of an update on that one. We don't have an update yet that I'm aware of just because I think Skinner, we're waiting for that to finish up. Because they'll have, the property will face both streets and they're, I think they're figuring out which way it will face and all that. So, I don't know the details. Okay. As soon as you do, we'll love to hear it. Okay. It's being used as a staging area still for Skinner. So, it's kind of a blessing in disguise. That's all I have. Thank you. So, I'll pound the drum on former City Hall Park. So, and I totally get your point. And I get your point. So, I guess it really comes down to how can you stage it for, you know, and have buy-in to the people that are going to start the firestorm if we delay it. But then they potentially could be the ones that start the firestorm if we do it. So, that probably is just an open dialogue. I think, yeah, we should reach out to them. Yep. Yep. So, the question I have about the new park is, I know that we've gone, we're in the plan now as a one, going to a two-way street from a one-way street. And I've really yet to understand why we're doing that. And then, and on top of it, because there's going to be parking there in the park and that you've got Hanu and you're going to have the, hopefully, the steakhouse there. Does that just add confusion to an area that doesn't really need it? So, it's about traffic circulation in the area. And specifically, that one of the reasons why we're considering it is because a lot of cars are going two-way down there anyway. So, we'd rather be able to direct traffic safely than to leave it as is when we know that there's a problem, despite all the signage that we've put there. Because the right-of-way is wide enough for the two-way traffic. So, one of the things that we had attached, Angelica Sanchez had attached to our calendar appointments for our agenda briefings was a diagram of the two-way. To sit down with all of you individually to go over the two-way, what that looks like. And we have spoken to, you know, those on Grand Street who would be most impacted, really, meaning Hanu at this point. And so, we'll sit down with all of you and go over the two-way diagram of what that looks like and how traffic would flow in that area. And I think it's attached to your, it should be attached to your calendar request for the one-on-one meetings as well. And I'll get staff in there to explain to you. So, this is something a traffic engineer kind of looked at and thinks it's advisable? Yes. Because there's obviously be other ways to make sure it's clear it's one way. Yeah. Which is to beautify it and not make it so two people can go in there or two cars. Okay. Okay. So, you'll go over that with us. I don't think I have any other questions. Oh, yeah. Actually, I want to understand, like, for the October 8th, for the parking garage, I just want to be clear. What we're bidding is for what? So, for the parking garage itself? Yeah, I'm trying to remember, what's our next decision point with the parking garage coming back to the commission? And I'm a little, I'm just trying to clarify. It will be the RFQ, correct? Right now, our design team and a contractor are going to submit their qualifications. Those will be reviewed by a five-member team or committee. We're going to vote for three people or three teams and then request from them a pricing proposal. Right. For the project. And they'll turn in the, like, safety rating of a contractor, their experience as a contractor, plus their whole design team history and qualifications. So, and you'll, you will not get a, I don't think we're going to be able to get a guaranteed price at that time. You'll get a, we've talked about this, you'll get a, maybe a budgetary price, but they're not going to finalize that price until they get the design farther to 90% or so. So, we'll choose one of those teams with the five-person committee or next step. One of those, they'll come back as probably, unfortunately, it'll be a price decision, which that could be the, the RFPs could be a tricky situation, I guess. But they'll finish the detailed, at once we give approval, they'd finish detailed design and they'd actually, they'd be the partner on that that would do the construction. They'll be the builder and the designer. Gotcha. So, you're locked into that group. Okay. So, so that, so that's it. That would be your decision point. And that would be your decision. Okay. All right. I just wanted to make sure I understood that. Sure. Go ahead. Excuse me. Can I just clarify? Excuse me, Commissioner, member. It's okay. The decision will be the go, no-go. Staff in a committee, they'll submit their responses to the RFQ, several companies, and then the committee will forward a proposal to the City Commission, and you are the go, no-go. Right, right. And I knew that we had, but I was thinking we had two decision points, but this is, this is the decision point, period, what we get. So, so once we go to, to, to the hard bid for the construction, I mean, you're going to see that as well. Okay. All right. Okay. All right, but, yeah, really. Okay. And then one more. Commissioner, member, walk. Go ahead. Carolyn. I don't know. There's one more variable where Bob and Les are going to go to the county with interlocal agreement seeking for the debt situation with the parking garage. Okay. So, it's like a balancing act. Yeah. Okay. Commissioner Walker. Yeah, I was just curious. So, the down select on that, what do you, what are we asking them to price? I'm just kind of curious as to how we make that determination. Because if I heard correctly, it's all going to be on price, and then it's not going to be a hard price. And I'm just curious as to what are we asking them to price exactly without a technical concept? On my side, the RFP has not been written completely. I know the qualification side and the safety rating of the contractors. And we talked about if the city is, my assumption from speaking with Doug and Bob is we're going to go with a guaranteed maximum price on the building. So, if I may. So, we're doing design build. And so, what we're looking at, when we start, though, the very beginning of the process is an RFQ. Because we're prohibited by law, with architectural engineering and so on, CCNA and so on and so forth, from essentially doing a proposal or a hard price. We pick them by their qualifications. Then they draft their proposal. And then we negotiate with them on that proposal. When we get to a point where we're comfortable, we bring it to the city commission and make a recommendation. And then that's your go, no go. So, they then will do the design. And then we'll get to a price when we're through our design at 90%. They'll give us, it's kind of the same form of delivery as this building, in particular, when we have the contractor on board. They give us what would be the guaranteed maximum price. And then we would bring that to the city commission. But right now, we're in the RFQ stage. All we're looking for is the qualified companies to submit. And then their subcommittee will pick that qualified architect or design firm. And then we start negotiating with them. So, there's nothing, no prices that we're talking about right now. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, and again, and I'm sorry that I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Because I guess probably the answer to this is going to be in the established evaluation criteria for the RFP. And I mean. RFQ. RFQ, sorry. Because I'm still not clear to me. How do we select the right contractor? We brought the big guns. I saw him coming from out there. Good afternoon, mayor members. I'm not sure what to call you, but good afternoon. Jorge Quintas, deputy city manager. I was watching, so I thought I'd help Port Martin out. So, the proposal, as I understand it, the RFQ that's out, it's a request for qualifications. It's basically to have firms that have design and contractors, you know, kind of a joint venture. And the intent is for them to demonstrate that they've done similar projects in the past, that they've got experience, that they're viable financially to move forward. So, they'll submit, the evaluation committee will shortlist those firms that submit and give you a ranking and what they feel is the best qualified firm, one, two, and three. That'll come to the commission, and that selection will then be your decision to move forward. Once that's done, then they'll proceed to develop a scope and fee to produce what we've asked them to do as a part of that design criteria package. Typically, what you do is when you get to a certain stage of that design, unlike a conventional design bid-build scenario, now we're a party with them as they proceed through this process so that we can provide input as they move along on those design elements we want incorporated. As they move from a 30 to 60 to a 90, you get a feel as to what the design is going to look like, what the cost is going to be. And typically, once you reach about a 90% phase, at that point, then they provide a GMP, a guaranteed maximum price. And that's when you come back to the commission at that point and say, this is what we've asked for. We feel that this is going to deliver the extent of the project that we want constructed. And once the guaranteed maximum price is agreed to, pencils are down. As long as we don't change our mind, they're on the hook to build it at that price. Okay, so basically, this is a qualification round, and essentially, we picked the most, the one with the best pass performance, and then we move forward. And I guess the only other question I would have to this process is then, as they are approaching the maximum guaranteed price, what's, you know, what are we evaluating that against? That allows you, unlike a conventional design bid build process, right, where you now open the bids and you either have the money to do the project or you don't, that allows you to then do value engineering throughout the process, right? If you realize between 30 and 60, this is going to cost us more than we've got money for, then we can value engineer parts of the project out to get the cost down. Or if we see that we're within budget, we may want to add some factors in, like solar power on the top of the parking garage. We can add those components in as we get through that process and get to a guaranteed maximum price. Yeah, okay. No, that's okay. I understand. Thank you. Sure. Commissioner Degard? Member Degard? Thank you, Commissioner. Chair. Okay. The question I have is, okay, we go through the RFQ process. Do we only have one firm succeed through that process? No. My understanding is I don't know how many I'll submit. You'll get three. They'll be ranked, and, you know, maybe the score is 90. And they then go through a bidding process, and then we approve the finalist through that bidding process. Is that what I've heard? Correct. You basically end up paying for the design, and then you're going to choose whether or not to proceed on the construction. But we'll try to value engineering the cost of the building through that design phase. And then you'll have a hard price that'll come back and say, are we ready to build this or not? Well, we have one hard price or three hard prices? One. Because we'll be dealing with one company. Right. Yeah. So, for example, the way we did the water treatment plant, that was a progressive design build process. So, we did that, this RFQ process that Martin described earlier. Then we went through what we called phase one, which is the design phase. And so, the commission authorized, you know, we're going to spend X amount of dollars to get to a design part of it. And that's the money that Martin says you're out. If we get to a certain point and we decide, you know what, we don't like this firm, we're going to go back to score one and go with the second firm. So, you've lost that money because you paid them to get to that point. But if you move forward and you go to the second phase, which is now they've reached the guaranteed maximum price, and they say, I can build it for X amount of dollars, we come back to the commission for that GMP award. Good. But as I understand it, we really don't do a competitive bidding process. It's a qualification process that one bid comes up. Is that the case? Oh, the lawyer's answering. I'm in trouble. I gave her the look. So, there are different procurement methods that you can do. When you're doing a public construction project, the services you're going to need is you're going to need design, you're going to need construction. So, you can either do those separately, and you do that on some projects, where you hire a designer, they design it, and then you go out to bid and you hire a contractor. Or you can do what's called a design build project, where what you do is you basically take those components and you go out once. And the entity that comes in says, we're qualified and we'll design this. And if you agree that they are the most qualified, then they get that award, and then the construction flows from there. So, it is still competitively selected. It's just whether you're doing it as a separate vehicle or all as one. And that's laid out in statute. Thank you. I think. So, we're going to just add to Jennifer, Mayor. Sure. Chair. We are also, when we're going through that process, we're making sure, we're looking at the materials that they're going to use. If it's a garage, there's going to be a lot of concrete. We want to make sure they have enough in their proposal, enough concrete. And we're also checking their references. If they say they have this experience, do they have that experience? Then we call and find out, you know, how they performed and so on and so forth. So, what we present to you in that form of recommendation, one, two, and three, they're going to be fully vetted by the time they get to you. Thank you. Anybody else? Okay. So, not to beat a dead horse, but so basically, so how much does this part of the contract cost to get to a hard number? I mean, we just approve them on qualifications and we just don't know. So, it's $5 billion and we find out later. Yeah. Yeah. Generally, when you award a design contract, whether it's as a separate project or whether it's going through this design bill, you don't know the price up front. Because what you are supposed to make that determination is who's the most qualified. And then you do the ranking and then you go into a separate negotiation on that price. But at that time, if you can't reach the acceptable negotiation, you can just say no or not. That's right. And you basically, if you can't with the person who's ranked number one, you go to number two. Okay. And then what stops somebody by being very agreeable in the beginning and coming up with some astronomical construction price and it's too late to turn back? So, it's not too late to turn back because they still have to come before you and you still have to agree to that. And so, if it's a completely unreasonable construction price, you're not going to agree to that contract. Right. But you'd restart your process, right? And that would be like. Yeah. You go to the second firm. And what projects have we done in Dunedin that have been design-build? Was the stadium design-build? Okay. All right. I don't like that method. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, okay. We've definitely beat the horse now. Okay. Anything else? Any comments? Members? I have a comment. Okay. Commissioner Walker? Yeah, I just want to say, you know, I rode my bike across Skinner today and I will say that they're approaching the end. So, was that the surprise thing that you were talking about earlier? I don't want to spoil it. Let's let Jorge spoil it. Go ahead, Jorge. Based on, Commissioner, remember, I don't know what the hell I'd call you guys. It's okay to say maybe. Based on a text I had with the contractor a little bit before 430, they had received the last load of asphalt and he feels that the road should be open within an hour and a half, which should be at the commencement of your next meeting. Where did you cross? That was my news, by the way. Oh, at the bike trail. Cross. Oh, that. I got you. Okay. Makes sense. Okay. Okay. So, I went all the way up to Highland, so, off of Skinner. So, what's still to be done? They're doing the final payment markings on the north side, the westbound side, and then they'll then be able to open the complete roundabouts at that point. Okay. So, you actually can't go down the westbound side? You can. You can alternate back and forth. I actually did it earlier today for my place, but they've been alternating and closing as they do the pavement markings, but by 6 o'clock this evening, they're supposed to have all the pavement markings down and the roundabouts open. Cool. Okay. Any other comments? Mr. Degard? Well, I happen to know some enterprising drivers are going around the barriers right now, and they're enjoying it. Followed one last night. My wife looked at me and said, you better not cross here. I didn't, just for the record. Vice Mayor, did you have anything? No. Commissioner Sandberg? I did not. Okay. And I don't have anything either, but thank you, Carolyn. You did great. Martin, thank you. Always, Trevor. And thank you, Jorge. Okay. And the meeting adjourned. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.