COMMISSION WORKSHOP - May 05, 2026

the meeting to order. This is the May 5th, 2026 work session of City Commission, and if we could please rise and we'll have the Pledge of Allegiance by our City Attorney, Jen. Okay, I think we have our first presentation of our artist, Nathan Beard, and we have Elizabeth Brinklow, or Nicole, who's ever stage it is. Good morning, Nicole Delfino, Strategy and Sustainability Manager, here today to recognize our chamber artists with Elizabeth Brinklow, the City's Art Consultant, and I did want to point out, as I was referencing the staffing this morning, that Elizabeth has been curating a chamber gallery show for us since 2020. So this is actually the sixth year that she's been doing this, and we alternate them, as you know, about every six or eight months or so. So today- Let's give her a hand. Yeah. Take it away. In the City Hall Chamber Gallery, thank you. So the City Hall Chamber Gallery showcases curated, selected artists from around the region. Really, they're mid-career and professional career artists, and this gives them an opportunity and basically gives our residents and guests and visitors an opportunity to experience their art in a new way, as opposed to going into a gallery, let's say, or into a museum. This is an opportunity for the public, and so we thank you for that. Thank you to Nicole for helping to liaison. We're doing a lot of thanks back and forth here this morning. Appreciate that. I brought some, as I go through Nathan's statement and bio for you. I brought some of his work to show, because often we're in the room and we don't necessarily, in terms of the general public watching, don't have the opportunity to see what are they talking about. So I thought I would bring some works for them to see this morning while I share his statement and his bio. So Nathan Beard. Drawn to the visual, ecological, and political of the Floridian waterscape, Nathan Beard's inspiration for his Pond's Edge series comes from both unspoiled wilderness like Brooker Creek Preserve and from brief moments of beauty in urban retention ponds and modified natural spaces like Hammock Park. He references photos taken on walks with his family, and the series helps to hone the drawing and observational skills he needs for his entire body of work. Pond's Edge began on the shores of Crescent Lake when Beard was in transition to fatherhood. As its name suggests, Pond's Edge is a quiet search for a passive balance with natural forces and formerly focuses upon the interaction of surface and depth, plant life and cast shadows, color and light. Nathan Beard creates in St. Petersburg, Florida, where he lives with his wife and two daughters. He grew up on a dairy farm in western New York. Prior to university studies, Beard lived in Egypt for one year as an exchange student, and upon his return, worked as a cowboy in Wyoming for two years. A lot of depth going on here. Beard received a Bachelor of Fine Arts from Colorado State University in 2001, then worked in galleries and as an arts consultant, art consultant in Denver, Colorado for seven years. After moving to St. Petersburg in 2010, he served as an art installer for public and private clients throughout Tampa Bay, as preparator for Scarfoni and Hartley Gallery at University of Tampa, as assistant curator at Dunedin Fine Arts Center, and currently as curator for the Work Gallery, W-E-R-K Gallery, in St. Petersburg. Nathan has exhibited extensively since 2013, and his work is in numerous private and corporate collections. He is honored to have received a 2025 St. Petersburg individual artist grant that will fund Love Songs, an exploration collaborative project with the DIMA Weavers in Niger. Four of Beard's large abstract paintings were recently selected for exhibition at the U.S. Ambassador's residence in Mexico City as part of the State Department's Art and Embassies Program through 2028. I had the opportunity, along with Mary Childs, my co-curator at the time, to introduce Nathan's work to the Art and Embassies program. So we're all very proud of his record, his community effort to keep art in the forefront for all of us. I'd like to introduce Nathan Beard. Thank you all. Thanks for having me this morning. I see a lot of familiar faces, of course. We know each other from the Dineen Fine Arts Center, where I served for seven years with Katherine Bergman on the curatorial team. My family was supposed to move to Arizona a few years back. My wife got accepted to medical school, but we had the opportunity to stay, and she's now attending the DO program at Nova Southeastern. So it was really lucky for us to get that email on the eve of our leaving to Arizona. And so glad to continue in the arts here. I'm now in St. Pete, of course, at home mostly with our two-year-old while my wife goes to medical school. And we also have a teenager attending the PCCA Gibbs theater program. So we're having a good time here in St. Pete. Still love coming up to Dunedin. And we'll talk about the inspiration of some of this work. It did start on Crescent Lake with our first daughter when she was a baby. I loved looking at the sort of abstract patterns that were happening when the water's moving. And, you know, the shape of a boat or a plant will get broken up into kind of undulating lines. And I just, I was really drawn to that as an artist. And so I started painting these. So that was back in 2013, 2012. So this series is, help me with the math here, 15 years old by now, 14, something like that. So I started, I did start teaching at Dunedin. And so a lot of these paintings are from Hammock Park, because I would take my students there to go through this process, which includes, the first part of the process includes collecting photographs that we then take to the studio, and we reference the photographs. So Hammock Park was critical to that, and such a beautiful place to go. And Elizabeth mentioned modified urban spaces. And so what does that mean? There's a lot of canals here, as you know, in Florida, that I believe Hammock Park used to be kind of more of a kind of a wild swamp, is my understanding. And so now the canals have made it more walkable. But so the water's still there, but it's in a different, in a different, in a different way. So I just like that idea of how do we live with nature in our urban environment. As we know, Pinellas County is the most densely populated county in Florida. So there's a lot of people, a lot of buildings, and a lot of what you all do, taking care of the infrastructure and the funding and all of that kind of stuff. So that's always been very interesting to me, especially coming from Colorado, where we don't have water everywhere. So I'm very much drawn to the nature and the life that's in our waters here. I'm pretty liberal with the coloration, as you can see. It's not all green, as it is in nature. That's just me being an artist and doing what I want to do. But I do try to keep a lot of the forms because I find them really satisfying to paint. And again, when the water is moving, it breaks up those natural forms into abstraction. And so there's kind of a nice in-between there between realism and abstraction that I think a lot of viewers that see the work or people who buy the work can decide to live with it. They really enjoy that a lot. Oh, yes. If you have any questions, please let me know. I think we probably definitely do have some questions for you, Nathan. Okay. I'm going to start on one side, but first, what part of Western New York? About an hour south of Buffalo, a small town called Eden. Okay. Salamanca. Do you know Salamanca? Salamanca is close. Yeah. Okay. That's where I was born. Okay. And when it says Western New York. I always meet people who are from the area. Yeah, that's cool. Very cool. Right. Okay. I'm going to start with Vice Mayor. Questions? Thank you, Mayor. First of all, your work is beautiful. Thank you. I'm a big fan of the colors and most certainly the contrast. And of course, the subject matter, you know, is all near and dear to our hearts. Sure. So my question is, do you experience any happy accidents during the design or painting process? This actually, all of these works start with happy accidents. That's part of the process. I usually start with these on the floor. I don't know if you've ever heard of artists like Jackson Pollock. They use paint and they splatter and drip. So my idea was to think about how do I replicate some of these shapes and these lines? There's a lot of lines. You can see it's all grasses and reeds. How do I replicate some of that without using a brush, you know, and just get myself going. So there's a lot of accidents that happen, pouring paint, splattering paint. I'll paint over them. But if you get up close to a lot of these, you can see all of that happening underneath. Commissioner Sandbergen. When I was going through your work yesterday, I think I was probably most impressed by the local work, including of course, Brooker Creek hammock. But I noticed a trend of the water and more local scenes like that. Coincidental or did you have a focus on where there was water settings, local parks? Well, it has mostly to do with where my family goes to take walks like we all do when we need a rest. So these parks are critical to our well-being, obviously. One of our favorite parks in St. Pete is Sawgrass Lake Park. It has a nice boardwalk. You see alligators. And there's a lot of opportunities for photography there. The same with Hammock Park, right? It's walkable, but the water's right there and can really take pictures. So Brooker Creek was sort of introduced to me by Lynn Whitelaw, the former director of the Leeper Ratner Museum. And he now curates art shows up there. So I had to show up there. And so, you know, I just like to get around to all these parks because they're just, again, it's some place to go to kind of let go of all of the things that we do day to day. Commissioner Gao. Thank you, Mayor. Nathan, it's always a pleasure. Yes. Good to see you. Good to see you. Nice to see you. Art is such an individual thing, even when it's public. So as an artist, when the public is seeing these pictures, is there anything, what do you want them to walk away with? Or what do you want them to see? Yeah. With these in particular, you know, what we want is just that sense of meditation of being in nature. There's a lot for everyone. If you don't know much about art, don't know how to talk about it, that's okay. You can just enjoy it for its beauty. If you want to talk about the process and how it's made or, you know, how I've left chunks of actual palette scrapings on some of them as a way to A, reuse my waste and B, make that surface more interesting. There's a lot to talk about. There's different layers, which is, you know, sort of ironic since there's lots of layers in the imagery itself. But the main takeaway is just sort of that peace and calm that you get just from being in nature itself. Commissioner Dugard. What's my name? Yeah, sorry. Good morning. It's early for me right now. Good morning, Nathan. Thank you for sharing. I see a lot of what I would consider Monet-esque in your work. Yeah. He did a lot of landscapes and painted one pond 15 times. Yes. Is that where you're going to stay or do you see yourself branching out in the future? With this particular series, I'm very focused on the shoreline. So that's where the water meets the land. Okay. I've never included a horizon line in any of my paintings. And so they deviate from traditional landscape painting in that way, that there's no horizon line. There is a piece in the mayor's office upstairs that was commissioned for this building specifically. And that is the only saltwater piece I've ever done. So these are all freshwater. I stick to freshwater and I stick to the shoreline. The reason I like the shoreline, again, is because of that play, that interplay between plants and water, or if you want to go a little bit more zen, stillness and movement. So there's a kind of yin and yang aspect that's happening with that focus. I don't see myself deviating from that much. What I do see myself doing is getting looser and looser and looser. So there's a number of these pieces. The one on the end is Eagle Lake. That's in Largo. That was an earlier piece. You can see how much tighter it is. It's not as loose. Whereas some of these other ones are, as you mentioned, more Monet-esque, loosening up. And so it's not so much about painting exactly what I see. It's more interpreting that feeling of being in that place. That gives your piece an infinite feel because there's very little ability to see perspective in such a piece. And so it could be it could be very close or could be very far away. And you just don't know where you are in this space. Yes. And there's there's a couple of pieces that I took the photos in puddles in a parking lot. To your point, you wouldn't know. That's exactly the point is finding beauty where you... Can we have another 20 minutes? Thank you so much, Nathan. Appreciate it. Yes. Well, first of all, everybody knows like for me, Nathan, always good to see you. Um, I love the art here because sometimes you do need a sense of calm and peacefulness when you're in this room. You know, sometimes it's necessary. And I always like to get kind of lost in it if one of my colleagues is going on. Yeah. You know, but, um, and I always have asked forever and they've just basically obviously don't care that I want a picture right there because I, that would, my eyes would naturally flow there. Yeah. People think you're, you know, Nicole is just continuing to, I think they want to put a mission statement there or something. But anyway, anyway, that being said, uh, your art's awesome. And, and I think it, as I was hearing you talk about it, it does, um, it reminds us, like you said, we're the most densely populated county in, in, you know, the state. And sometimes it's like, and we have a lot of green space in Dunedin, but when you think about it, we really don't. And it's like how important the, that aspect of our world is because if we lose that, we lose our very life. I mean, we need the environmental aspect of our world. And I think it just reminds people how important that peace is and it brings calm. So I'm kind of curious, like, so do you, which one, what are all those? Like what's, you know, you said one's Largo, Eagle Lake. Oh, where are they? Yeah. Where are they? Yeah. Uh, so I'll, I'll go right down the line here. Yeah. Starting with this one, that's Brooker Creek. The next darker one, that is Hammock Park. Um, the purple one is, I call it Cedar Creek, but Cedar Creek is what feeds into Hammock Park or what used, so Cedar Creek used to run all the way through, but now it's like a canal. So, but the very back end of Hammock Park, um, there's kind of a little creek area back there. So that's Cedar Creek is somewhere back there. So I just, I learned that just by a little research. Um, the big pink one is, uh, a canal off of Park Boulevard and 275. Uh, I'm trying to think of what business is there. Um, Great Bay Distribution is there. Um, the next one is Sawgrass Lake Park and then Eagle Lake. Cool. Yeah. So it's, you know, it's all over the county, you know, that I do these, um, just some of them, um, were made specifically for projects and some others just out of pleasure. So. And then my final question is like, how do you get the level of detail from, it seems like the bottom of the water to the top of the surface? And it does seem like you capture that. It takes a lot of patience. I use acrylic. Um, so acrylic is water based. So I think that helps me depict water in the sense that, um, I can layer things in a transparent kind of way. Um, so it, it takes quite a bit to build up that surface, um, so that it reads, uh, that there's some depth. Awesome. And are you creating little artists now with you, you said you have a two year old? Yeah. Well, you know, we'll see what they become. I never pushed them into anything, but, uh, yeah, our teenager is, uh, in tech, she's a technical theater. So she's taking the backstage stuff and, um, the new Samantha is, um, two years old. So we'll see, but she's actually quite athletic. So I wouldn't be surprised if she goes the opposite way. That's awesome. Well, uh, you're a great representative of art and the importance of it. So thank you for joining us today. Thank you. Just one last note, the work on Nathan's work will be on display on exhibit for, uh, till the end of this month. And then Richard Logan's work is coming in. Uh, also just a completely different series. So thank you so much. Thanks a lot, Elizabeth. And again, Nathan, thank you very much. And Nicole as well. Yeah. Pictures. Okay. Um, we are going to go to 1B on presentations, recognition of the 2026 national public works week. And I'm going to turn that over to commissioner to guard. Thank you, mayor. Um, Sue Bartlett, are you? Yes. Come to the four. Um, and I'd call all the public works people up here, but I have a feeling the building might tilt. Um, glad to have you all with us. Jorge, I'm going to ask you to come forward too, if you wouldn't mind. Clay, of course. So who's minding the store? I'm kind of going to ask. It's not raining. We're in good shape. All right. Very good. We always have response, you know, always. We're glad you're here and we're glad you're part of the team. Whereas public works professionals focus on infrastructure, facilities, and services that are of vital importance to sustainable and resilient communities and to the public health, high quality of life, the natural environment, and wellbeing of the people of the city of Dunedin. And whereas these infrastructure facilities and services could not be provided without the dedicated efforts of public works professionals who are federally mandated first responders, engineers, managers, and employees at all levels of government and the private sector, who are responsible for rebuilding, improving, and protecting our nation's transportation, water supply, water treatment, solid waste systems, fleet services, public buildings, public spaces, other structures, and facilities essential to our citizens. And whereas it is in the public interest for the citizens, civic leaders, and the children in Dunedin to gain knowledge of the importance and ongoing interest and understanding of the importance of public works and public works programs in their respective communities. And whereas the year 2026 marks the 66th annual National Public Works Week sponsored by the American Public Works Association. Now, therefore, I, Tom Dugard, by the virtue of the authority vested in me from the mayor of the city of Dunedin, Florida, and on behalf of the entire city commission, do hereby proclaim May 17th through 23rd, 2026 as National Public Works Week, and urge all citizens to join with representatives of the American Public Works Association and government agencies in activities, events, ceremonies designed to pay tribute to our public works professionals, engineers, managers, and employees, and to recognize the substantial contributions they make to protecting our national health, safety, and advancing quality of life for all of us. Thank you. A round of applause. Mine's short and sweet. Any good manager surrounds himself with people far smarter than them, and hard workers, so. Work is done. I would agree completely. Everybody in common works in Julie, stand it. Yes. That's all. Thank you. Um, we appreciate this time, and, um, I really love the theme for this year's Public Works Week, rooted in service powered by community. I think it's very, very appropriate, and, um, this is public work, this proclamation is about Public Works Week, which is in, um, starts on the 17th, not to be confused with Public Service Recognition Week, which is coming up, and, uh, which we are a subset of. And, uh, Public Works Department here in the City of Dunedin is one small component of the Public Works staff that, um, by definition includes utilities and parks and even firefighters. So, uh, again, designated as first responders. Um, we want to recognize and celebrate all our first responders, field, and support staff that diligently work behind the scenes to deliver essential services. That's what we're about. Um, and for the past few years, we've had an equipment rodeo, um, that all the staff has worked to put together. Um, but this year, um, we were invited and allowed from y'all, um, to participate in the American Public Works Association Florida State Annual Meeting in Tampa. So, they held educational sessions, keynote speakers, and equipment rodeo, and other events. We had many staff volunteers, which also allowed us to participate in the four-day event free of charge. Um, we were invited also, and I invited Michelle up also, um, to speak there, two sessions, um, about our, um, implementation of our efficiency recommendations. Um, we also, um, got an article published in the APWA Reporter. Um, actually two articles. One was by us, and one was by the consultant who mentioned our implementation there and, and some of those details. And, um, the incredibly fast implementation of the tool that we're using the software, um, to help us implement those processes. Um, it was, they were very well-attended sessions. Some of the best attended, over 150 people in one of them, and over 100 in the other. And, uh, but we appreciate the opportunity that that provides us to advance the professionalism of all of our staff and our programs. So, this year, we won't be having an equipment rodeo. Um, also, um, looking at our, um, our budgets. Yeah. It's hard, you guys. It's so impressive what you do. So, so, um, it, each department is going to have its own individual celebration. Um, and the, uh, public works department, um, is going to enjoy a, a smaller picnic, um, there at public services, which you're invited to on that Wednesday, which is the 20th. And, um, we can forward you the, uh, other information for the other departments and what they're doing. Um, of course, we'll have little things just like public services this week, but it's much broader, but public works will have just, you know, little drawings ourselves. Um, and you're welcome to drop by and toss a beanbag. We'll have some beanbag tosses there. So, we'll resume the rodeo next year, hopefully. Um, you know, tighten our belts and save that money this year. But, again, we got to participate free. So, um, we've been very busy, um, enhancing all of our skills. So, that's great. So, we would like to then again thank all the public works contributors and supporters. Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to give everybody a chance to say something because we've got a room full of very important people out here. And, uh, I'm sure that we all have something to say. We'll start over here with, uh, Commissioner Gow. Uh, you know, mine is just going to be short and some just, we can't thank you enough. So, just thank you for all the work that you do. Commissioner Degard. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, I think I know why we're not doing the rodeo. Risk management saw the commissioners on the equipment last year and decided it was a safety issue. And, yeah. Definitely that riding lawnmower, I think. Well, I don't know. I don't know how you're going to ever buy those cones back. Um, it's tough to say how much we've, I've learned about what you guys do in the year and a half I've sat up here. Um, there is very little about the lives of everyone in this community that you don't touch. You make the mechanics of people living here possible. It's that simple. You keep us healthy. You keep us safe. We are very grateful. Sue, let me give you the proclamation. Oh, yeah. Uh, Vice Mayor. Thank you, Mayor. You know, uh, so much of what you do, do behind the scenes is just, it's not visible to the public, but I have to say, you know, when, when we have a problem, you're there. And, uh, you know, uh, sometimes I think this job probably spans the spectrum of being rewarding all the way to being thankless. And I think it's absolutely imperative that we say, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for what you do. Thank you. Commissioner Sandbergen. I know you're going to say something about the rodeo. I know it. I was probably the only commissioner that cost the city money trying to drive a riding lawnmower. It just, these guys make it look so easy. I almost took out one of my colleagues. Um, let's see. Um, no, in all seriousness, I mean, I see all of you around town and I know how hard all of you work, uh, maybe get in trouble with another department, but I'll refer to you as Dunedin's first responders. So, uh, I thank you for all of you. You know, I, I, I know, I know a lot of you. I see you around and I just, all I can say is thank you. And, uh, city doesn't run without you. Keep up the good work. So, yeah, I mean, the mower looks so easy when you watch you guys and I found out it, it's not, it's not. And everybody got out of my way too. And, uh, was anyone there like when I picked up the garbage can to put it in? Yeah. Okay. So, I crushed it. I mean, it was crushed. I just, yeah. I didn't know if it would, it did recover though, right? It was usable after that, but it didn't look like it was going to be usable. Anyway, again, it is amazing how easy you make it look and it's not. And, um, and I think every resident has to have that perspective. But, um, you know, when I talk to little kids, like I, I say, okay, when you get up in the morning, what do you do? Well, you probably brush your teeth, which takes clean water, probably flush the toilet and you hope it goes down. And of course, then when you have all that trashed, what happens if it just keeps collecting at your house? And so, um, and of course we know stormwater and, you know, and our facilities and all those things that play a role. I think the, the word touching the lives, Commissioner Newgard, when you said that you do, you touch the lives in ways that are just, um, you know, Dunnean loves to have parties. But again, as I like to say, like it doesn't, nobody's going to want parties if all the stuff you guys do doesn't work well and doesn't function well and isn't done well. So, um, you know, I am glad to be able to do a bean bag toss this year versus the others. I had to say that, but I do want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart because you are the backbone of this community. I'm really glad that you were here today so we could say it directly to you. So we cannot thank you enough. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. We got to get a picture with everybody. Come on up and get friendly. Get close. Come on. No personal space. We've got to clear the room after this, right? All right. We've still got public clear this week. I know. I didn't touch the engineering. Oh. Okay. We do love our engineering too. This is going to be a challenge. Good luck, Sue. I've got to get closer to you maybe. No, right there. And of course with Sue being short, that doesn't help. That's a good idea. And then she's going to fall maybe. Oh, she's going to step back. How good is that? Where would you like me? How about you guys? He's still here. Yeah. Well, you know what? We're not the important ones in this case. Okay. Now we're good. I love the words. Thank you. Awesome. All right. I don't know if they're staying either. Okay. Okay. Our next item. Give it a minute. We're going to be talking about drinking water week for anybody who wants to stay for that one. That's a good one. Commissioner Sandbergen would love you to stay for the drinking water one if you can. All that's waiting is a bunch of work for you. So that's how you have a captive audience. All they got is work to go back through, right? Yes. Okay. We're going to go to drinking water week proclamation May 3rd through the 9th, 2026. And I will turn to Commissioner Sandbergen. It's drinking water week. I'm going to say the word water 15 times, but there's something a whole lot more important. And that's all of you that help us and deliver it to us. So with that being said, let me go ahead and read this proclamation. Then we'll have a chance to talk. Yeah. Mike, bring more up. There's gotta be others. Water people. Yep. There we go. And I think I recognize one of you from Thanksgiving. We've got a few heroes in the city. All right. With that being said, whereas water is our most valuable natural resource. And whereas drinking water serves a vital role in daily life, serving an essential purpose to health, hydration, and hygiene needs for the quality of life of our citizens enjoy. And whereas the city of Dunedin has considered the health environment and social impact of ensuring that facilities and systems provide citizens with a safe, dependable quality and quantity of water, both now and for our future needs. And whereas tap water delivers public health protection, fire protection, support for our economy, and the quality of life we enjoy. And whereas the hard work performed by the entire water sector designing capital projects, operating and ensuring the safety and quality of our drinking water, or a member of the pipe crew, the pipe crew maintaining the infrastructure communities rely on to transport high quality drinking water from its source to the consumer's tap. And whereas we are all stewards of the water infrastructure upon which current and future generations depend. And whereas Dunedin residents and water customers are called upon to help protect our source waters from pollution and to practice water conservation. Now I therefore, Stephen Sandbergen, by the virtue authority invested by Mayor Freene of the city of Dunedin, and on behalf of the entire city commission, do hereby proclaim May 3rd through the 9th, 2026, as drinking water week, and encourage all of our citizens to applaud the trained public utilities, professionals, the managers, and the employees who operate and maintain drinking water systems with a clear responsibility to protect our most valuable natural resource, thus advancing the quality of life for all Dunedin residents, schools, businesses, and community services that depend on safe, reliable water every day, including Thanksgiving. Thank you, Clay. Thank you. Clay Watkins, Utilities and Engineering Director with the City of Dunedin. Mayor, Vice-Mayor, Commissioners, thank you for this opportunity. We appreciate the opportunity to recognize National Drinking Water Week, a time to reflect on something so fundamental to our lives that we often take it for granted, clean, safe drinking water. Water is more than just a resource, it is the foundation of our health, our communities, and our economy. Every time we turn on the tap, we expect water that is safe, reliable, and accessible. This expectation is not made possible without the dedicated professionals standing here with me today, and others who cannot, are actually manning the ship while we're here. The operators, the distribution staff, and the engineers, who work around the clock to protect and deliver the vital resource and produce and distribute over 1.2 billion gallons of water to the residents of the great city of Dunedin. But Drinking Water Week is not just about an appreciation, it's about an awareness and responsibility. Across the country and the state and the city, challenges like aging infrastructure, population growth, and pollution are putting an increased pressure on our water systems. Ensuring safe drinking water for the future generation requires investment, innovation, and collective action. Each of us has a role to play. Simple actions like conserving water, properly disposing of chemicals, and supporting local water initiatives can make meaningful difference when valued water is protected. Let this week serve as both celebration and a call to action. Let us recognize the important of clean drinking water, not just today, but every day. And let us commit to safeguarding the precious resource ourselves, our communities, and generations to come. So thank you, and thank you for your leadership. Yes, thank you Clay. And again, I know I speak for the whole commission in saying that we do value our water. We know our residents have had to deal with some increases even in the cost of making sure we have the best equipment to give you to make sure we're keeping it where it needs to be because it is a very valuable resource. And we can't, you know, ask for the public's help enough in helping conserve that very valuable resource. And I know our rate structure was kind of based on some of that in terms of incentivizing, you know, basically conservation. So we appreciate all you do. So let's get a picture. In front of me. No, you're good. You're good. I'm moving around you. This way. This way. There we go. Okay. Don't go anywhere. We got public service recognition week 2026, May 3rd through the 9th, 2026. I will turn to Vice Mayor. Thank you, Mayor. You know, John F. Kennedy said, ask not what your country could do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. And I can think of absolutely no better example than the public service that you all provide. You know, whether it be our nation, whether it be our state, whether it be our county, or for you and us, the great city of Dunedin, you make it all work. And your sacrifice makes us or allows us to enjoy the things that we do. So thank you again. On to the proclamation, Public Service Recognition Week. Whereas since 1985, the President and Congress have designated the first full week of May as Public Service Recognition Week to honor all public employees who serve our nations as federal, state, county, and local government employees. And public service is a noble calling that requires dedication, integrity, high ethical standards, and sacrifice. And public service at all levels of government work tirelessly to improve the lives of their fellow citizens and the well-being of their communities. And public servants have faced unprecedented challenges and risks amid economic challenges, social unrest, and environmental threats. Public servants demonstrate resilience, innovation, and courage in overcoming these obstacles in delivering essential services to the public, providing quality of life services, and maintaining excellent public facilities. And day in and day out, public servants provide the diverse services expected by the American people of their government with efficiency and integrity. Now therefore I, Robert James Walker, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Mayor of the City of Dunedin, Florida, and on behalf of the entire City Commission, do hereby declare May 3 through May 9, 2026 as Public Service Recognition Week. And call upon all citizens to recognize the accomplishments and contributions of government employees at all levels, especially our very own great City of Dunedin employees, and to show appreciation through demonstration of gratitude. Thank you. Good morning. Good morning, Teresa Smalling, Director of HR and Risk Management for the City. I just want to say a few words to thank you, City Commission for supporting us, your employees that you've always said, your employees, our employees are the greatest asset. it. So thank you for that. Thank you to City Manager Jennifer Bramley, who's always supporting us in our efforts, both especially for this week. We have a host of small activities planned for our employees to show appreciation for all that they do in the city. As you can see, today's Tropical Tuesday. Thank you, Jorge, for participating. Jennifer is kind of sort of participating too. And then tomorrow we're going to be doing Wellness Wednesday. So the rest of the week we'll also have some other activities. You know, there's not much more to be said from looking at the Public Works proclamation and knowing that our employees know what the city's mission is to provide quality services to our citizens. So thank you once again for this proclamation. Thank you, Teresa. So does anyone want to add anything? Were you good? I'll just say on behalf of the commission, again, this commission has historically considered our employees the backbone of our city, our greatest asset. And I know I speak for everyone to say we will continue to do that because we know what our role in making that happen is too. Providing the right tools, making sure we stay competitive, all those things are important. We value you. We are grateful that you selected this career. As somebody who spent their whole career in public service, I get it. I mean, we have employees that literally when they're off, you know, are not going to walk, they're going to, they're not going to step over a piece of trash, they're going to pick it up because they care about the city. And I think that's the difference, right? It's just that it's not just a job. It's also a pride and it's also a place you care about and we care about you and we will continue to support you in every way we can. So thank you very much. Thank you, Teresa. Teresa, come on up. Employees here. Come on up. Come on up. Come on up. One more time. Come on. Come on, guys. You're all part of this. Everybody. You work for the city. You're in public service. You, too. Well, I may need you to direct and then you step in. Annie, Annie, come here. You help me direct and then we'll get you in there. Yeah. Okay. Make sure you're going to get back. These are our problem children over here. All right. Jorge, get in. Here. No, no. Oh. Okay. All right. How about a couple more down here? How about a couple more down here? Join Jorge. Yes. All right. All right, Annie. All right, you get in. Yeah. All right. Yeah, Jeffrey Rie, right. Okay. How about Jorge? Like it, like it. Okay. Oh, you're so sweet. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. Thanks, Joe. Hey, Joe, where's the... Okay. All right. We're going to go to citizen input. Does anyone in the audience wish to come forward and speak on a topic that is not on the agenda? Okay. Seeing no one, I will close citizen input, and I will go to our first workshop item, which is Board of Finance Update, and I know we don't usually have those long of presentations. Thank you, Catherine, for hanging in there. And so, I guess we have Les and Catherine Harvey, who is the chair of our Board of Finance. So, I will... However, we're doing this, so... Okay. Do you want me to come here? Oh, you're fine there. Good morning, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commissioners, Les Tyler, the Finance Director. Jennifer, do you want to make any comments at all, or just... Okay, great. This item before you is Fiscal Year 26 Update from the Board of Finance. We have Catherine Harvey here, who is the chair of the Board of Finance, to present the report, and I'll turn it over to Catherine. Thank you. Good morning, and thank you for allowing us to come before you and, on behalf of the Board of Finance, give a mid-year update. We basically went back through the issues we identified in our letter of August going into this budget season. So, it's an update on what progress we've made to date since that. And before we get into the nitty-gritty, I'd like to thank Les and his team again. They've really been a great partner to us and given us reams of information, as many of you have sat in and experienced the level of detail that we go through on some of these things, so we really do appreciate that. One of the major issues that we raised during the last budget season was the issue of carry forward, so that the departments were budgeting such large amounts for projects and not completing the projects within a given fiscal year, which caused them to carry forward the outstanding budget. So, this has made it very difficult to actually accurately predict what we will spend, as well as, in some cases, take out debt financing prematurely, which, of course, has a cost to it. So, going into this year, we had a capital budget of nearly $53 million and began the year with a carry forward of $31 million, which is a pretty significant sum. And this pattern has been in effect for several years. We've talked about the impacts of that, and we're very pleased to announce that the finance team has worked with staff and Jennifer to get this carry forward down significantly. We have reduced this year's estimated carry forward to $16 million, so pretty much cut it in half. And during our review process, we identified one more project where the carry forward could be eliminated, and that was another $1.2 million. So, to also help mitigate this issue going forward, we suggested in August that we run, or finance ran, the five-year averages of what each department has actually spent. And this is an issue across all the departments. And in some cases, there's valid reasons for it. But there's departments that have consistently budgeted three times what they actually spend in a year. So, we are suggesting going into this year's budget that we provide these amounts with the departments and ask them to keep within that unless there's a very good reason to exceed it. And that will really help to mitigate this issue going forward. Since we're heading into a challenging budgeting season, we suggest that we spend down the carry forward that's outstanding and really stick to capital projects that are mission critical to the city. And I think the commission has been going down this path anyway. There's only two capital projects that are still in the design phase. One is the Highlander Aquatic Complex, which is $18 million, which you all recently decided to postpone for a couple of years, which I think is a valid thing to do, and we are in support of that decision. The other project that is still in the design phase is the garage, which is $10 million. Even though that doesn't come out of the general fund, it's a different fund, we still think you should consider delaying that project as well, particularly in light of the $12 million that FEMA still owes us and the potential for the property tax bill, which I'll talk about in a minute. So those are the two that we suggest be delayed. So we share your concern about the proposed house bill, HJR203, which would phase out all non-school-related property taxes for homesteaded Florida residents. This property taxes generate 35% of Dunedin's funding. So this would be a catastrophic event for the city and for the county as well. We sent a letter to the commission under separate cover talking in more detail about the effects of that bill. So to switch gears, the other main topic that we talked about in May were the compensation and benefit costs for the city employees. So as of now, the city is proposing another 3.5% maximum increase in compensation. And for the non-union FTEs, the actual average compensation went up 3.3%. So going into this year, they budgeted a maximum of 3.5%. What they actually got on average was 3.3%. So they're spending up to the max. And the year before that, it was 5.5% increase. And so the budgeted amounts are a little understated, if you will, because we have this career laddering program. So people can get more compensation by getting certifications and various other things related to their jobs. So they're getting a pretty healthy compensation level. And so this career laddering program, which began in 2024, was primarily used in utilities and sanitation. And it was designed to reduce the turnover in that area. So we pulled the actuals. And if you take out retirements and terminations, the voluntary turnover has been very low or basically none. So it's done what it's supposed to do. So we would anticipate these amounts should come down in the subsequent budget season. On to health care costs. The health care costs for 2026 were budgeted at a 15% increase. And last year, the city decided to absorb that entire increase and not pass it on to employees. The city's health claims, which is net of stop loss or catastrophic claims, per employee per month for the first five months are 18% higher than last year. So this trend is continuing. In the last 17 months, the plan has also spent down its reserves by about a million dollars. So because the city is self-funded, they hold reserves to pay the claims. And they've kind of eroded the base, if you will. And there's been no rate increase for employees for several years. So one of the things that I think we would like to shine a bit of a spotlight on is that if the employees are taking employee-only coverage, so in other words, they're not covering their family as part of this, they pay nothing. And they pay nothing no matter which of the three plan options they choose. So of course, 80% of the employees are in the richest benefit plan option because if they have employee-only coverage, it's free to them no matter which plan they choose. And there's also a very low out-of-pocket limit on this plan. I believe it's $1,500. So after the employees incur $1,500 of co-pays, deductibles, and so on, the plan pays 100%, which is a very low out-of-pocket limit. So because of this, we think this is not a sustainable situation. And we've come up with some very specific recommendations of ways that we can mitigate this cost that isn't purely just raising the premiums. We do think there needs to be an appropriate increase to the employee rates. And there needs to be steerage into these less rich plans. So in other words, if you think for competitive reasons, you need to keep a free option on the employee-only, it should be on the least expensive plan. So you'll start steering people to the less expensive plans. And then today, the city is paying employees to opt out. So in order to get them to not take coverage because it's free, why wouldn't you do it? They're paying them money to opt out. So if you start introducing premiums on these plans, you don't have to pay that anymore either. And then we think raising the out-of-pocket limits for all plans is an appropriate thing to do. That way, the people who really aren't using a lot of services, it's not going to affect them anyway because they won't hit it anyway. But it will have the most direct impact on your costs without raising premiums significantly. We also recommend that the self-funded plan go out to bid. So currently, the city is using Cigna for its administrator. And the way this works is when you're self-funded is if you go to the doctor and the bill's $100, it goes to Cigna to be paid, and they reprice it based on their network discount. So they might have a discount of 20%, and they pay 80% of the discount. Because Cigna is not a major player in this market, their discounts are not going to be as good. So even if their administrative fees were lower, which is a small portion of what you're actually paying, you're better off going to somebody with a lot of market share like a Florida Blue or UnitedHealthcare, excuse me, one of the national players, because their discounts are going to be more. So say you go to the doctor, that same $100 might become $70 or $65 when it goes to the administrator. So we think that that's a pretty valid thing to do. And then Finance and Benefits agrees with us that additional funding needs to be added in order to make up those million-dollar reserve shortfalls. So that's not a situation that should continue. So we respectfully submit our suggestions for your review, and I'd be happy to take questions or have a discussion. Okay, anybody have direct questions to Catherine right now, and then I thought we'd potentially open public input, but then maybe, and maybe, do you have some, so maybe direct questions to Catherine, and then we'll hear from Les, and then any questions after that, but then we can provide some just thoughts and input maybe. Does that sound like a reasonable way to do it? Is that your thoughts? Yes. Okay, good. Okay, so any direct questions to Catherine? Start with Vice Mayor. Thank you, Mayor. No direct questions, but I do want to say you and the Board of Finance do an amazing job, and the input that you provide is invaluable. So thank you. And we'll have time to give final thoughts and comments to her as well, but just any direct questions, but no, it's fine. It's good. Go ahead. Commissioner Samaritan? Okay. No, I think we're going to realize. I don't know if you think you weren't a chance. Okay. You know, we're going to realize how vital the Board of Finance is. Are you fully staffed? Do you have some term limit issues coming up? What's the status of your... We are fully staffed right now. We have two, at least two terminations in October. The two that are terming in October are because they reside in unincorporated Dunedin. So those two are coming off at the end of their term. We might have at least one more Board member terming out. So we are going to have some openings. And have we addressed... I'll talk to Michelle. Do we have applications ready? Because obviously we're going to see how vital this Board is going forward. Commissioner, off the top of my head, I do not know. But I can be sure to double check and put a social media push out if indeed we are in need of applicants. I would suggest that you do that because we've gone through those applications in the not-too-distant past. And we need some more qualified people. So people with finance backgrounds, accounting, tax, any of that, that would be great. Because I think we see how important this is going to be. That's all I had for her, Mayor. You know, and on that same note, you know, my thought, too, is that we should all be looking for people that are good candidates. Because I think when you look at... And I know we're going to be talking about all our boards. But I still think, like, you know, of course, we're going to be filling the slots for our golf advisory. But Board of Finance and probably local planning agency are probably two of our most critical ones. And we should be making sure that we're, you know, we're really talking to people in the community that we think would be good to helping out and being, you know, more of a player. And, you know, not just leaving it to Finance Board to have to come up with it and come up with it. But also, you know, kind of a little more of a team approach on that in terms of how we find people. So we'll... And people are welcome to attend our meetings before they're actually on the board. Yep. I mean, we've had several members do that. And so then they can get up to speed pretty quickly once they're on. Great. Good. Okay. Any direct questions of Catherine? Okay. Commissioner Dugard. Thank you, Mayor. Inasmuch as our benefits, our compensation are really based on a competitive marketplace, do we benchmark any of the communities around us to see how their benefit packages compare and to see if we are rich in the market or if we're just at scale? Have you done anything along those lines? I personally don't do it. But I think the benefits department has done compensation studies at least. Jennifer, maybe you can speak to that. Yeah, we do. And that aspect, and Les will mention it as well, we're going to bring back to you during a workshop, a budget workshop as far as the health benefits go and the points that the Board of Finance has made. And at that point, we would do the benchmarking. So, yes. Thank you. Thank you. That's all I have, Mayor. Okay. I don't have any direct questions now. Obviously, fantastic presentation. Thank you. I'm really happy as you as chair that you got in that seat and you're doing some great stuff. We appreciate it. The whole team is. So, at this point, I will turn to Les. And, Catherine, you can relax a little bit. All right. Thank you. But thank you. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Kathy. I just had a few comments. And mainly, first on, Kathy had mentioned we prepared that five-year report living from 21 to 25 and what did the budget taxes look like over that time frame by department and just some general comments kind of citywide on that. First, you know, we will continue the efforts to refine our carry forward. You know, Kathy mentioned we made some good improvements. We reduced it in half, and we will continue to work at reducing that more in the future as well, working with departments. And also, it's important to note that our budget is a plan. As you all know, it's not a cash flow model. It's our budget authority in most cases must be in place to facilitate the award of a contract. Even when those contracts are executed, we may not spend expenditures in some of those contracts until the end of the year. So that does get more variances than starting at the start of the year. And during that time frame from 21 to 25, that report that we created for the Board of Finance, a few factors that I think, from my perspective, were part of the reason we've had projects not being completed during that time frame is we had supply chain disruptions. We had staffing vacancies for a period of time in engineering, specifically. And we also had conditions that would improve the progress. We also were constrained by necessary shifts for the storm. We had the storm in 2025. We had Helene and Milton that hit us. And in 2025, a lot of our work was moved towards those storms and not necessarily what we budgeted that year, so that was another thing. We are seeing improvements in 2026, I will say, especially in water and sewer. Our expenditures to date, from a cash flow standpoint, in 2026 are much higher than it have been the past three years. So we are seeing a lot of movement on our projects. And I want to mention, we'll continue to collaborate with departments to ensure that we, moving forward, in 27 budget process, we've met with the departments and we'll continue to meet with them and then go over with the City Commission, trying to make sure that we have a reasonable delivery plan and not necessarily having projects we know we can't get to that year. And also on the health comments, real quick, Kathy made some comments that the Board of Finance had on health and benefits. As Jennifer mentioned, we plan on going over that with the City Commission at the Workshops 1 and 2 on July 21st and August 4th, you know, presenting the health benefits and also talking about some of the comparisons like were mentioned a few minutes ago. That concludes my comments. I'm happy to answer any questions. Thank you. Okay. Again, you know, we're going to see all this during the budget, but does anybody have any questions of us? You do? Okay. Vice Mayor. So this is just related to our FEMA reimbursements. When we went up to Tallahassee and met with the Florida Department of Emergency Management, you know, they're tracking our claims real time. And I'm very encouraged by the fact that, you know, we've received $2.2 million in FEMA reimbursement. Do we have any update on status on where some of our other claims are at this current juncture? Yeah. We had a large—the seawall project was approved, as you probably all heard, which is our largest project that's been approved, which was great, a couple of weeks ago. FEMA right now in the last week has gone to more of a—back to kind of a shutdown mode. They did pay a lot of expenditures to our city and a bunch of others in Florida and throughout the country. And I believe it's in a situation now, based on conversations with Tetra Tech, that the budget that's still on hold at the federal level, you know, really needs to pass for them to have funding for future appropriations. So I think we really need that appropriation to pass to the federal level before too much more is going to flow through, I believe. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Thank you. That's all I have. Anyone else over here? I do have one, and it has to do with the pool. And I know we haven't made—I mean, we all know behind the scenes that, you know, we have a tight budget. We've got a lot of—and so you're absolutely right about that. And, you know, it's a tough one for me, as you know, because I've been—I've really felt, you know, the pool has just been so important, and it's the—it's the one thing the city has not done. And it's been in the planning for 30 years. And it's just—the pool is, you know, got a lot of repair issues, a lot of problem issues. It's not a modernized pool. It's the only pool we have. And we live in Florida, and it's hot as 80s, and we have summer camps, and kids barely get to go in the pool as it is. So it makes no sense to me. But that being said, fiscal realist as well. But we all saw the notice, I think, that we just had a delay in our pool opening, you know, for like six weeks. And that is a huge concern. Whether this pool is going to survive, we have got to have a pool. You know, my partner used to be a rec director here. When I said the pool was getting—was closed down, and she's like, oh my gosh, summer camps. What will they do? Like, that is a critical piece to our community. So, Tony, can you tell me, like, how bad this is? Is this pool going to make it? And, you know, I mean, obviously we're going to talk about this in depth at the budget hearings, but I saw that, and it just blew up a big red flag of another reason. Can this wait? Now, I mean, you know, we have the money. We don't have the money. That's its own reality. But is it going to make it? Good morning, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commission, Tony Mulkey, Parks and Recreation Director. We have a lot of challenges with the current pool. We are performing enough work to try and get us to the next deadline, kind of, to be compliant with health codes. We had a little bit of a setback this year, and we had a valve failure that ended up flooding our pump room. We had some needs of some finishing work in our filtration area. So we're taking incremental steps to try and make it last a little bit. It has impacted the season just because of the timing, which is unfortunate. But we are accommodating the youngest water safety. We've had to dial back the ages to use the small therapeutic pool that's out there to be able to engage with the most vulnerable population of age three to five, essentially. We've also had staff performing outreach at different schools for water safety and things like that to kind of fill that gap. And we anticipate once we get everything kind of up and going with this little setback, we should be able to maintain operations through the season. Okay. I just, you know, when we're in our budget workshops or a separate or something separate, I just think we need to drill down on this pool and make sure it's going to survive the delay. And again, I'm talking, and I get it, like, you can't do something you don't have money for, and I don't want to stretch this city and have an issue the other way with overstretching our finances. But I do want to drill down to make sure this pool is going to, you know, is going to make it for that delay. And I don't know what the, I don't know what that alternative would look like, but I do have concerns that we do need to have a pool, so. May I, Mayor? So, and just a point of clarification, if I may, that Ms. Harvey had stated that the decision has been made. Essentially, staff has recommended that the pool be pushed back, and ultimately the City Commission makes that determination and that decision and not staff. That said, we need to bring the broader discussion back to the City Commission with our plan to patch the pool that we have right now to get us through to construction of the new pool. And there's a cost associated with that, too. And the decision needs to be made. Do we put that money in the pool? And it's going to be another three years or what? So we really needed to kind of flush out that plan and put it before the City Commission's for you. True cost benefit of what we're going to put into keeping it, you know, hobbling along. Yes. Okay. Yeah. No, that's good. And thank you, Tony. You're welcome. I'm glad you're in that seat, too, by the way. Thank you. Okay. So, no other questions? Okay. I'll, oh. Yes. Go ahead. I just want to say, first of all, thank you to Catherine and the Board of Finance as well from staff's perspective. They work very well with staff. They're very thorough. And just to explain that a lot of people don't understand, and we did mention it during our tax forums, that our budget is reviewed in depth by the Board of Finance. And they're a citizen advisory committee appointed by the City Commission. And as you said, Mayor, they hold a crucial role. All of our directors present to the Board of Finance, or those that have the largest part of the budget present to the Board of Finance, answer questions. Sometimes the Board of Finance wants them to come back with some of those answers. So, it really is, it's, it's a great relationship, but I want to state very specifically, they are not pushovers in any way, shape, or form. They ask very good questions, and they challenge staff. And I think that's an important dynamic that people need to understand. But I'm grateful for all your service. Thank you. Okay, I'm going to open it up to the public, if anyone out there wishes to come forward and either ask a question or provide a comment. And seeing no one, I will close public input, and I will ask for commission comments, and I will start on Vice Mayor. Yeah, thank you, Mayor. I've already pretty much, you guys do an amazing job. I think for this particular, for finance and accounting purposes, budget, we need that checks and balances, and I know you all aren't pushovers. So, thank you. Commissioner Sandberg. No, I appreciate your coming forward today, Kathy. And I think that's a great point that the Mayor brought up about us also helping instead of just see who applies. We recently saw the applications for that golf committee, and there are some very talented and, in fact, there were some financial people that applied. So, they're here. We just get them in here and realize how important this is. So, thanks for coming up today. Okay, Commissioner Gao, final comments. Thank you, Mayor. I actually echo a lot of the comments that have already been made. I do agree with the Mayor on that we should all be involved in filling those seats for available. But, Kathy, thank you for everything that you do, those extra eyes, and especially if they're strong eyes, and you all stand strong. Certainly appreciate it. So, thank you very much for everything you do. Mr. Dugard. Thank you, Mayor. All of our committees are important, but the Finance Committee holds a pivotal scope of service to this body and to our city. And I'm grateful for what you do. And, by the way, I just don't think the word pushover and Kathy's name go in the same sentence. So, I know how you drill down, you get the facts, and you make great decisions. Thanks for what you do. Okay. Now, I mean, obviously, you are the only charter board, the Finance Board, which automatically puts you as the head of the pack. And because that board is required, and I was here when that actually was added to the charter, and, of course, it took a vote of the public. And it's a very important board. It's a board that I know holds great respect in terms of from this commission and importance because it was put in to really be that citizen voice of just making sure that we're not missing things and we're getting input from that realm of everyone. I, and, you know, just to reiterate, I think that kind of the, some of the vacancies coming up in the Finance Board does highlight, you know, for some of these boards, I just feel like we've been a little too inactive up here and we should be more inactive. These are our advisory boards. I mean, these are really important in terms of working with the committees to get the right people on there. And then at the end of the day, you know, we approve that. So, anyway, so we'll do that. I definitely, I like the term catch-up year. I think it's reality. I think even before we had storms, we saw this coming. I mean, things were getting tighter in the budget and we had some, some things to deal with. Even with some of our projects, you know, how, how much do we want to debt finance versus how the money, how do we wait, do we wait for the next penny for Pinellas? Will that actually get voted in? Hopefully so, because I think all communities would be in big trouble. So, I do think catch-up year is a good way to go. Certainly a lean year. As I've told people, regardless of what's happening at the state, which would be devastating to us at any level in terms of the property tax going away, which is just that we have a tight budget right now. Because for 10 years, we've held our property rate, property tax rate the same. And, and we are, we've slowly edged to a point where that's getting harder to do. And we're going to see some real cuts happening this year to make sure that we still stay the course. So, I, you know, pray that greater minds up there in Tallahassee will, will, will see that. So, um, anyway, um, a couple thoughts, um, I, I've already made my comments on the pool. You know, when Jennifer first told me about delaying the pool, I mean, I mean, I saw it coming. I mean, you know, we are all up here. We, we know, like, we have a fiscal responsibility first, um, even if you're in your own home, if something's happening and you don't have the money or you're going to push yourself a little too far out there, well, okay, got to try to figure out how to keep this thing limping along. And I, so obviously that's, that's the goal to try to keep it limping along, but I do want to make sure that we really can do that. And we're not spending a ton of money to do that. Um, so, uh, I think a good discussion on that is good. Um, I do appreciate your, uh, commentary on the benefits. I think that, you know, um, number one, of course, is being competitive and market, uh, and, and being adhering to kind of what's the market's telling us. And I think we'll do that. Um, uh, obviously I think in any benefits plan, it's good to always have a little skin in the game, um, which incentivizes the right things. And I think, um, you know, if we need to do that to incentivize the right kind of plans, we can always still make sure that we're competitive in our wages to kind of make sure we're, you know, offsetting what we need to do to be smart about that. Um, I mean, that's kind of what we do for water, right? We need water, but at the same time, we're incentivizing people to be smart about it and do the, the good behaviors versus bad. Um, and I guess that's all I have. Um, yeah. But Kathy, appreciate it. Doing a great job as chair, uh, the committee. You got a good committee to go on. And, uh, and I think we all work hard now to make sure we get some good replacement people too. So, um, thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Okay. I, you guys want to take a short break and then we'll come back. Uh, the work session and we are, our next item is social media content, comment policy. And I think I'm turning to the city manager before we go to, to Super Ness for staff presentation. Yes, please. And thank you, Mayor, Vice, Mayor, and Commissioners. I just wanted to kind of frame the discussion that we're about to have with the city commission. Uh, this is, this is a workshop, which means that you take no action, no formal action during the course of a workshop. Uh, staff will present an item to all of you and you will discuss it amongst yourselves. And we are looking for consensus direction. And in this case, we are looking for consensus direction from the city commission to disable comment on our social media platforms. It, it, in thinking about this morning, um, it amazes me and I'm, I'm looking at a brand new employee here and some of our younger employees that, that when I first started my career a long, long time ago, um, our way to communicate with residents was a letter or they would come to the city commission and make comments and you would either address those comments or the letter or whatever it was we would write back. And that took 10, 15 days back and forth. And that's how we got our citizen input. And that's how we got information out. Then there was email, as you know, and, and you, we would adopt, uh, uh, performance measures as far as how fast we had to reply to email. And when I first, uh, again, when I was just a young city planner, it was a week to reply to that email. And then it narrowed down to, uh, two days and then one day and then 10 minutes, which is, it seems to be, you know, the, the level of service sometimes that people expect for emails. And you, all of you experienced that yourselves. There's been a revolution, I think, in the way that, that governments communicate with constituents and with residents and business owners. There's, uh, used to be, uh, there was, uh, originally, initially we used to call the Facebook. Remember that? When it was called the Facebook? Yeah, you remember that? And, um, they, citizens had, or sometimes had the ability to comment on Facebook. And when I first got here eight years ago, we did not, um, have a Facebook page. Remember that? We, um, so eventually we stood up a Facebook page and started soliciting comments. And it was, it was a decision to, to, let's solicit comments and get this input. And it was a great mechanism for getting, um, the sense of the community, uh, via those comments and where they were on a specific position. Uh, and it was a useful tool. It really was. Uh, but just like the way that we would communicate years, 30 years ago, the way that we communicate now has changed. And so has social media. It has changed. In the way that we communicate and the input that we're getting via social media. So we had to ask ourselves, is it useful to the decision-making process that all of you, um, the decisions that you're making, the recommendations that staff are making, does it really gauge the sentiment of the community? Um, or does it, it, does it cause more misinformation than proper information and so on and so forth? So we really had to look from a business perspective. Is it beneficial? Is it useful to the city commission and to staff or is it not? Are there other ways that we can communicate with your constituents and get the sentiment in the community better? And so as a result, um, and Sue's going to kind of walk through, uh, our decision-making process as far as this, uh, recommendation goes. We, um, have, uh, attached, uh, attached what we call a user policy. We're going to call that an administrative policy. Um, and, uh, I will execute it, but with support of the city commission, if after discussion, you still support, uh, disabling, uh, comments on social media. And Sue's also going to run through how it is you would then be able to, to hear from your constituents. So with that, I'm going to hand it over to Sue. Go ahead, Sue. Go, Sue. Thank you, Jennifer. Good morning, mayor, vice mayor, commission. Um, as Jennifer mentioned, we are going to present for your consensus, um, direction today, a, uh, recommendation to amend our social media user policy or agreement. I'm not even sure you know we have one, but it is on the website and it is on all of our social media platforms. And that user agreement probably has been, uh, probably has not been read by a lot of people, but it gave us some guidelines as to what can and can't be posted to our website. Um, this amendment will take us further. And as Jennifer mentioned, we will, um, we will disable comments on all of our social media platforms, recent national data and research indicates that social media is no longer an engagement tool, as Jennifer just mentioned for local government agencies, the sentiment findings show that social media has become antisocial in many ways, as it spreads misinformation, dissension, threatening and safety concerns for residents and staff. We have seen many examples of this on our social media platforms where comments create distrust, confusion and misinformation. Often the intent of our post is lost or completely hijacked by the comments that have nothing to do with the intent of the content or the original post. Social media though still has value and purpose for us. We use it to provide our residents with public information, news and updates on city projects, programs, emergency updates during storms, and point them to the city website, which is our hub, our digital city hall and other agency partner websites for additional information and resources. And we use it to share our brand stories about our places, our people, our public works, our staff, all of those videos and reels that we do behind the scenes and show people the workers who are actually putting value into their cities and into their daily lives. Um, and I think we can really recognize some of that this today with all of the proclamations. Um, we like to showcase our people. We like to showcase businesses. And so social media is a great place for us to do that as part of our ongoing effort to streamline communications and provide residents with accurate, timely information. The city staff recommends disabling comments on our social media posts effective today, May 5th, 2026. We have researched a legal side of this decision with the help of our law director. Social media is not a public forum. Many cities, agencies, and school districts all over the country have disabled comments on their social media platforms for the reasons mentioned. There is a 2023 federal court case where a local government adopted a policy which did not allow comments on all local government owned social media accounts. The court decision prevailed that the counts were designed to further the educational mission of the local government by providing information to the community and public and were not, and it was not to create a public forum. This amended social media user agreement will allow us to focus on delivering clear and consistent updates to the community by ensuring our messages are clear and easily accessible. While commenting is not available on our posts, there are still many ways to connect with us and share feedback. And I'm going to mention the first one, which I pulled the website up for you, for all of us to look at. That is number one. And you will see at the very top tab, we've added a new, very easy to find tab that says contact commission. And so we have included on that very easy to find tab at the very top, all the ways that our residents and the public can contact the entire commission, each of you, Jennifer, and then other ways. We actually welcome and we actually field emails every single day through the communications department through our website. And that is at communications at Dunedin.gov. You can find that easily on the bottom of the website and every page. Each department section also has a contact us for the director. And then, of course, we have our commission meetings, which we welcome the public to attend in person, or they can join us through the live stream, through Facebook, through the website, through YouTube, and through the Spectrum 639. We also are really trying to elevate and promote, in fact, we have a post today, for the e-comment. So let people know that they can comment on an agenda item. Once that agenda item is posted or the agenda is posted, they can comment on an item on the agenda or an item not on the agenda. And you know that goes directly to you and that becomes part of the public record. Also, we have more than 20-plus boards and committees. Another great way for residents to provide feedback, either by becoming a member or by joining. We heard from the Board of Finance today. The public is welcome to attend these meetings. So those are just a few of those ways in which you can connect with the city. We remain committed to public engagement and transparency. Residents have other ways that they can participate. We have town hall meetings. We have the tax forums in April. We also have the weekly Danita News. We have city surveys, the citizen survey that we do every other year, the business survey we do every other year. And then we have other surveys that we issue based on topic, issue, and we are seeking community sentiment through those surveys. Posts will still be shareable. You will still be able to like, dislike. That will still be enabled. And so we just feel that, as Jennifer mentioned, that the value in our social media platforms is really for the purpose of public information, awareness, sharing our brand stories. And has no longer become a place where residents are truly engaging in a social, civil way. So I'm happy to take questions. Okay. Questions starting with Commissioner Gao. Thank you, Sue, for a good presentation. What do you think the, what are the residents going to say about this? I think a lot of ways. So there are cities who have implemented this policy. What's the feedback? Yes, I did. In fact, we just had our FMCA conference last week in Clearwater, Sankey. And I talked to a couple of the communication directors there. What does that mean? Just so. Pardon me? What are those? What are those? Oh, FMCA is the Florida Municipal Communicators Association. For the public. I just want to. Yes, absolutely. It's our state association. The conference was here at Sankey last week. And I had been already talking to some of these directors who have done this in other cities in Florida. And we know that other cities all over the country have done some research on them as well. And they said, initially, you're going to, you know, there's going to be those loud voices. Those are the people who don't want to come to a meeting, right? They are the people that we have invited over and over through social media. If you would like to come to a meeting and express your concerns, you know, there's a meeting this Thursday. Or here's the email that you can reach out to this department director. And they don't want to do that. So there will be those that will feel that their First Amendment rights are being taken away. But we know that social media is not a public forum. And we have also believed, and this is what we've heard from the other cities, that a lot of residents are going to be relieved. They're going to be relieved because they've been afraid to comment on social media. Or they've been bullied and harassed or, you know, called out for, you know, their positive comments on social media. So what I've heard from other cities, too, is they get more people coming to meetings, which is not a bad thing. So we'll see. Thank you. That's all that I have. Okay, Commissioner Dugard, questions. Thank you, Mayor, and thank you, Sue. This is a constructive proposal. I support it. I support it for a number of reasons. First of all, social media entities, we do not control. We are using a medium of communication that is controlled by others. Its channel is totally theirs to use in whatever way they want. And they have their own profit-centered agenda that is being driven. And they actually stimulate conflict inside those agendas. So I'm not in any way opposed to this. I don't know what we're going to do when it comes to such platforms that actually benefit from conflict. We're working towards the question. All right. I have a question. Okay. How soon can we get this done today? That's our intent. If you give us consensus direction. And let me also just note that, and Jennifer knows this. We've talked about this for a couple of years. And I've been adamantly opposed. Right? Yes. Even after the hurricanes in 2024. And that was actually a situation that was good and bad. Right? It, the hurricane, people were using social media as a call center. Should that be the place where people are doing that? No. It put a lot of pressure on myself and my staff. We felt this, this sense of great responsibility to, to really be on at almost 24 hours. I mean, we were on monitoring because people tend to use it as Google. They tend to use it as a, as a 911, which they should be calling 911. Or, you know, reaching out to those emergency services. And, but it was always my belief and my profession's belief that this was the right thing. But everything has changed so much in the last year. And many of these people who are commenting are not real accounts. They don't live here. I looked them up. Jennifer knows that too. I looked them up. I, and, and they, they live out of state. And the more negative the Facebook thread becomes, the more Facebook, the algorithms feed it. And that's what a big part of the problem is. And so it is no longer this place where people can even get timely information either. So we're hoping that, you know, if they want to take their conversations to their own platform, they can. We will still be monitoring, you know, the other groups, you know, we can't post, we can't comment. But we can see if there's misinformation out there that then we can create our own content. And then we can put that content out there and we can be more assured that that content isn't going to get hijacked for someone's agenda or being challenged as being false or misrepresented. Okay. Thank you very much. And in the spirit of making this a question, this is a trend that has been developing over time. Can you share with us the communities that have actually started this trend? And give us a little bit of an anecdotal story on how they've experienced it. Well, the city of Cutler Bay, they did it two or three years ago. And, in fact, I talked to the director last week at the conference. And he said it's like at the beginning it just, yeah, there were people that complained. He actually shared there's other cities in the Miami area that have done this as well, a lot of cities on the East Coast. There have been, they've gone to, residents have gone to the media. We're prepared for that. I have a media statement all ready to go. We have statements for, we have a website, a story for our website that will go out this afternoon if you give us consensus direction to do this. We will publish it in the Donita News this week. Staff will, and admins will be prepared to answer calls and questions from residents. And that was the guidance that we have gotten. And, but there's been, I think there's a couple of cities in Minnesota. I think it was Rochester, Minnesota. I can't recall all the cities that we've researched. And the school board as well. And school boards and law enforcement. A lot of law enforcement agencies and school districts have done this, especially after COVID. A lot of school districts ended up doing this because their social media platforms became so toxic. And it was really, in many ways, threatening to a lot of the teachers. We will actually, excuse me, Commissioner, we will send you all of this information so that you'll have it as well to talk to your constituents. So we've had, this has obviously been done in the last eight or nine years, our posting on social media. Is that the case? Yes. Yes. I mean, I've been here five. And back when we began it. Pardon me? What did we, did the commission actually act on posting on social media or just did we begin doing it? May I? So when we first began, and I think it was seven years ago where we started our Facebook page, we started getting comments. And there was kind of a gray area. Do we act on it or don't we? Or what, you know, you have one person who's saying something. We would get information that, you know, there's a pothole here or there and so on and so forth. So we would act on that. But it wasn't really overly useful to us, you know, as far as putting together, you know, our work plan. So it was more, we had some issues. Ocean Optics was, there's a design review in Ocean Optics. Preserve the Vibe was very active on social media and the comments on social media and that type of a thing. So did I answer your question? Yes. Okay. Thank you, Mayor. Okay. Questions? Vice Mayor. Thank you, Mayor. Just for clarification, the social media comment policy or an administrative policy that we're calling it, where does that get posted? I'll show you. So this is the social media user agreement we have right now on the website. And it's also on all of our platforms. So it will, correct, Jen, we'll replace this with that. Yes. Yes. And they'll actually be noticed on, like Sue was just saying, on each one of the platforms. So they're, they can be directed back to the malls so they can see everything. Yes. All right. And that, and that was included in your packet, I believe. Did it? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. It was. Going back to the, Commissioner Gao's trend question. Had, if you, and again, this isn't a formal survey. I'm just curious what kind of feedback you've gotten from the residents with anybody that you may have shared this with. Well, actually, I really haven't shared it with too many people because we didn't want it to get out ahead of us. Yeah. But I've shared it with, you know, some people in general who don't live here, who live in other cities, who are residents. I have shared it with a few of my friends here that I know are not active on social media. And the, and the response has been, that is going to be a good thing. And we are different than a brand. You know, my background is public relations, marketing. I've worked in corporate. I've worked in agency. And if I was working for a big brand, you know, you need social media to market, to target. And we know who our, you know, we look at our platforms and we even target our, our content. Our content might be a little different on Instagram than it is on Facebook. We know our Facebook resident, our Facebook audience is our, the majority where our residents are. Our younger residents are on, on Instagram. Our Instagram is not nearly as polarizing. The comments are usually very different than Facebook. For whatever reason, Facebook is a place where a lot of this misinformation lives. So we really, you know, we didn't want it to get out. Things get out ahead. We didn't want, but the, the people that we have talked with and actually people in other government agencies that haven't done this yet are watching. And they're like, we, we get it. We, we're hoping that we can move in that direction too. Thank you for that. You're welcome. No further questions. Commissioner Sandberg, questions? I believe like Dunedin, Dunedin Fire has a Facebook page. Does Dunedin Library, what about those? No, no, Dunedin Library does not. Dunedin Fire does. Say that again. Dunedin Fire does, but Dunedin Library does not. Okay. So that's the only other. We only have, yes, I believe in centralized communication. And so the, the, you know, we want people coming to one platform. I did let fire, when I got here, I said, okay, I'll let them have a platform. A lot of, a lot of the fire rescue departments in, in the county, in the area have them. And, uh, uh, so that's the only other, um, non-communication managed. We don't manage their page. They manage their own. Okay. And that fits what we're looking for today. I think actually we should be consistent across the board and disable comments as well. Yeah. Yeah, I was going to, that was going to be my question. Yes, because people will take it. That's what I, that's where I was going. They will take their comments there, even if they have nothing to do with fire rescue. Right. I'm guessing that there will probably be several startups that have the word Dunedin, City of Dunedin. Is there anything we can do to, you know, tell people those are not official City of Dunedin Facebook pages or whatever? There already are. I'm not sure how to say that. There already are. They're out there. Mm-hmm. They're out there. All right. And the last thing I, and with AI, it's going to become more challenging. Okay. I guess, and the last thing was that, so we feel comfortable that we will, I mean, what you just showed us, that if somebody does have a question, and I don't know, I, you know, I'm too old to really be from the social media era. And I know where people have used it just for, you know, I'm looking for a place to park and come to the baseball game. To me, drive around town until you find one, like the rest of us. But, you know, well, no, you're right. I walked everything. But it just, as long as you feel comfortable for the citizens, for the visitors, for the people that have a true question, that they can find somewhere to email and ask that question. They should be able to. But what is really the reality is, and this happened yesterday with the swim lesson post we did, right? Free swim lessons for three to five-year-olds and all the information's in the post with a link. And a line that says, if you have any questions, call this number. There were at least three or four questions that I responded, if you have questions, call this number. I don't know these answers. So I either have to go and I'm going to reach out to the aquatics and get the answer, or they can click the link. And so people are using, they're just asking questions rather than looking at the information right there, getting that phone number or that email address or that link that takes them to everything. And that happens every day, every single day. Just, people just throw questions out rather than looking at the actual post content. So we are being very diligent. I have told staff that every single post that we put out, especially if it is about any kind of service, an event, a road closure, whatever, we have to have the link in there. We have to have the contact, you know, whether it's engineering at or, you know, a recreation at or the phone number so that those resources are there. Plus, they are on our website. Plus, we've got, you know, we've got all the phone numbers for people on the website. And that communications email that I just mentioned, we look at that every day. We get quite a few emails through the website. And I usually forward them to whoever is the subject expert, whatever department, if I can't answer. And they're usually about utilities. They're about permitting. Those are some of the top, you know, questions they get. And those are real questions about living in Dunedin. So many of the, I mean, we can have, last week was a great example. We did that cute little video reel with Jake driving. There was a Jurassic Park video reel. I don't know if you saw it. And then one of the staff was showing that you had to collect the leaves. And the negative comments about staff and about just off topic were just really, you know, disheartening. And I heard that from several employees that saw that. It's just such a great, cute video that had a great message. And it's just, there's something that, you know, people behind a keyboard, and many of them don't even live here, right? They have this, you know, I don't know, they have this obligation that they want to create distrust. And I think, you know, I have more when it comes to time for comments. And we want to encourage people to continue to subscribe to the Dunedin News. It is the, and I say that even on Facebook when I respond as a city to a lot of times when people say, oh, I didn't know about this. Or I got this social media post, this Facebook post after the event. Because social media works, the more you engage with us, you're going to get that content in a more timely manner because of the algorithms. But the best way for people to stay informed is the Dunedin News. That takes you back to the website, our website, or Pinellas County Sheriff website, or the county website, or Forward Pinellas. Whatever content we're putting out there, we take that person back. Because the person that's going to be hurt, and this is my opinion, is the one that legitimately uses this. Right. For knowledge, doesn't elaborate, doesn't comment, but really feels that they're part of the community. I mean, we went to the World Series, and we were both getting contacted by people in Dunedin. I didn't know there was a watch party. There was nothing her and I could do. I didn't know there was a watch party, and I went, and there's no beer. There's nothing we could do. But how is that, you know, how did that get out? How can we get that out to the public? And that's who's going to suffer, is the person that, and I'll be careful when it comes time for comments, not to call. What do you mean, what do you mean they're going to suffer? The information is still going to be out there. I think the people that don't fight back, that don't leave nasty, rude comments. I didn't know what you were talking about with these city employees, but that does bother me. And I won't dig deep and call out a few of them that I've wanted to call out. And I guess I'm in favor of this, but I think this is also going to hurt a lot of people that really use it for a point of reference. But it still will be there. The posts will still be there. The city will post it. Nothing, nothing, nothing on that will change. We will still create all the content that we're creating. And as long as you're engaging, if you are engaging with, if you're on Facebook and our, our content shows up, you're going to get that content. And you're not going to get the distractions. The distractions meaning the people that have commented. Right, exactly. Not the positive comments. Everybody. Right. Nobody can comment now. Right, exactly, exactly. I'm good, Mayor. So, a couple questions. You just basically answered, but I'm going to ask it again. I mean, how many, how many people subscribe to, or how many, whatever the term is, for how many subscribers or whatever you call them for Facebook? How many people are- Facebook? Follow our Facebook. How many followers we have? We just pulled out our analytics for the month for the city manager update. I think I saw over 60,000. Right. And we have how many residents? 36. Right. So, right there we know. There's a ton of people doing that. I mean, that's good, too, because, again, people like to come here. Oh, absolutely. But, again, within that group is also a lot of non-residents who chime in in negative ways as well, or disruptive ways, I guess, is the better. I mean, you know, it's not like we don't want, we get the negative. You know, we get it. People feel it. So, and that goes back to the negative. So, if somebody feels passionate, like there was somebody that wasn't very happy about the development on Skinner, and they were, they showed a picture of the proposed development, and they were like, I hope, you know, the city turns this down, but they probably won't, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then, the next day, they reposted it, and shared it to the world, and said, hey, they actually stood up for us, and we won. So, it's not like it's not going to be. People can still do that on their own platforms, on the group. There's so many groups, right? Right. There's so many groups. They can share. They can get into that discussion. They can. But they're not on our site confusing the issue that we're trying to message. Exactly. Okay. Okay. Let's see. And, actually, a great example of that is, if you remember, the sourdough bread situation really began on another platform. And then, we made a statement to try to, you know, correct facts. And, that became a very, very, very elevated, in a negative way, situation where people were saying they were going to boycott the businesses in Dunedin, or they were canceling their trips. And, that was really on, it was on our platform, which, again, that platform reflects our brand, our brand story. It reflects the city, reflects our businesses, our community, our residents. So, that is a great example, because I had businesses contacting me, then, they're ruining our reputation. They're not doing what they're supposed to do. We all know it. We don't know what to do. We don't want to get into the mess on social media. But, they are ruining our reputation. We have good business, you know, good business relationship with the city. So, that's a great example. That thing was out of control. And, our own businesses were worried. And, they didn't want to get into the craziness on Facebook. You know? So, they didn't know what to do. So, they were turning to us. You've got to respond. You've got to do something. Right. So, that's a great example. Well, they were attacking everyone who did respond, too. So, that was the other part of it. That's a great example. So, the contact commission, was that always on there? Or, is that new? No. That's a new tab. Okay. We always have had a commission page. Yeah. Right? Under government. But, here, let me go back here. But, no. This, right here. Yeah. The contact commission. Right. Was a tab we added last week. Okay. So, here's my question, though. Here's my question. And, I love when my constituents email us. That's great. But, again, sometimes what we do, especially depending on the topic, is we turn around and say, hey, you know, hey, city manager, can you take care of this? Or, hey, department, because we don't have the immediate, quick information. So, I also, and I guess that's something we have to monitor. If we're going to get bogged into things that really, like, there's a better place for them to go to get a quick, easy question versus they want to share some concerns with us. Absolutely. So, I just, that's just my only. That will bring you to this page, which has not just you, but it has Jennifer. Right. And, it has, then, this email here. Mm-hmm. And, then, the commission meetings, you know, how to engage, and the boards and committees. But, I just don't want to, all of a sudden, start getting emails about when's my trash getting picked up. Right. And, that's when I see us as a primary link. Right. Then, I think, okay, that's good. Right. So, just want to, I think it's just, I think it's great. Yeah. I just think it's something we need to be. Well, and we track the website analytics. So, administratively, if I may, administratively. Um, and we have discussed this, first of all, when we were forming the recommendation, and as far as the process, uh, in the department head meetings. And, uh, you know, administratively, how are we going to be sure that, that if they do reach out to you and say, you know, solid waste, miss my, my garbage can, um, that it will be taken care of very quickly. And, so, Lindsay, uh, Brush, who is your assistant, will be monitoring this. And, if, if she is not available, then, and, uh, Angelica will be watching it. Sanchez, who is, who is our, uh, executive office assistant. So, we will be monitoring this very carefully. And, in the beginning, I think you're going to be getting emails, um, about this decision should you support disabling. And, we'll be ready, prepared. As Sue said, we have, uh, she has prepared statements to send out on behalf of the commission. Yeah. I, I just, my concern is I just don't want to overwhelm. Right. You know, Lindsay and Angelica with stuff that could be directed differently, more appropriately, I guess. And, I don't think those are the questions you're going to get. Okay. Jennifer's right. That's fine. You're going to get the, you're going to get the emails right now, or we all are, about this decision. Right? I'm fine with that. And, I just pulled up the website. So, the way the website has been built and, and designed is with these, these, uh, series of two rows of widgets. And, we've got analytics where people go. And, people, and our survey results that we just got from the citizen survey, um, indicated that the number one place where people go to get information was the website. Number two was the Dunedin News. So, we feel really good about that, that we have trained our residents where to go. So, they're already, when their trash gets, um, missed, they don't, those aren't usually the comments we get on social media. We may get them through the website. But, for the most part, people know where to go. And, trash and recycling is one of those widgets. Front and center. You know, pay your, utility billing is always a top, a top, um, page where people are going. Because, that's the information they need to get. Permitting and inspection. So, I don't think, you know, the, the kind of comments is, it, it is really more of that negative narrative or those agendas. The marina is going to be a topic you're going to, you're going to get emails on. Yeah, we do get that. And, you already do, right? So, some of those things are going to just maybe be a little elevated. And, they may not be. Because, remember, sometimes these are people that do not want to come to a meeting or do not want to email you. They just want to create what Commissioner Dugard, um, eloquently said. You know, they just want to create, really, drama and chaos. Distraction, disruption, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, and then, um, and you, obviously, the hair's in the back of my head. You know, uh, warning, warning. Um, fire. Fire has their own. Mm-hmm. But, we, and we don't, we don't, we don't control the overarching principles of that website. We let them do their own. We do. How does, I don't get that. Mm-hmm. Help me with that. Well, so, the fire department, I think it was four years ago. Um, and they've been asking for a number of years. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wanted to, uh, have their own website. Apparently, it's pretty common amongst fire departments to have, uh, their own Facebook page, rather. And so, um, it was important for them. It was, it even raised to the, to the level of the union, um, discussing it with me. And so, um, I allowed them, actually, to have their own, uh, Facebook page. And they post, um, you know, obviously, the, the, the, uh, material is all strictly pertaining to the fire department. I've never seen anything inappropriate. No. I mean, it all is good stuff. Yeah. So, I just wonder, but still, like, something like this, which, to me, would be a given. Mm-hmm. And if we set a administrative policy, it is, there's no question. Yes. That, that's an, so, you know. Absolutely. So, I'm just surprised that wasn't actually part of our staffing. Mm-hmm. That, like, hey, of course, this will be across the board. Right. So, but, so we do think of them. Yes. As one with us, even though. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. And, I mean. Because I don't know, Sue, do you think of them as one with us? It doesn't matter. It's not one that I manage, but it's one the city. So, when we say all city platforms, it's the city platform. Okay. And we know that they're. Because the fire chief is overseeing it. Like, you're going to reflect the administrative policy in a way that is legal and good, just like we are. Like, there's no, we've got a communication that we feel good about. Yes. That they're just not doing their own thing. And, like, do they already have the user agreement that we have on theirs? I mean, are we in sync on those things? That's my biggest concern. Our user agreement would, would, would be for all city platforms. So, they have it on theirs. I'm not sure if they have it on theirs now. No, I do not know. Yes, I don't know if they have it on their Facebook page. Okay. Yes. They will by the end of the day. Yeah, I get that. But, you know, you see where I'm headed. Yes. Yes. Totally. And that goes to your point. That's why you're afraid to have separate. Because then they start to get different. And then they don't follow the same. They don't have other things that we consider. The other thing is the consistency in messaging and also monitoring, right? So, it's monitoring and it's also consistency in posting. I've seen a lot of cities, they decide, oh, we're going to have, we're going to have a page for the library. We're going to have a page for, and when I go to these conferences, this is some of the topics. How do we manage these? Because the library is doing their own thing and they might not be messaging in consistent tone, voice with the city. Or they're not posting enough content and you lose that engagement because, you know, you really need to maintain posting, you know, at least every day. And that was my challenge to the fire department. I said, are you really going to do this? Because I've seen, you know, I've seen departments or organizations do this and they start off great and then it falls off because you need someone paying attention to it. Well, I mean, we had a separate one for, when I was director of animal services for the county, which, because animal services, so, but, but we had somebody 24-7 because that's what it took, which is the danger too. You don't want to be 24, you know, what you guys are doing. Well, but we are. I mean, maybe not 24-7, but we are seven days a week. And I'll, I'll be honest with you, I, I, you know, I've spent, in fact, you know, one of the last Sundays that, um, I was on the beach, um, in June, um, before my husband died, we were on the beach and I spent a good part of my time on the beach fielding questions that were, uh, an issue. Um, and, um, it's just part of what we do. It's part of what we do. So, yeah. Um, so I guess my final question, just Jen Cohen, you're, you're, you're 100% comfortable with this. Yeah, because the, the approach, and you've all hit on it today, is that this is a commercial platform that we heard Commissioner Degard talk about, that you have chosen to go ahead and utilize for putting out information. This is not something that you, that has been traditionally designated as an open forum. Then, the way that you're choosing to put that information out and regulate it is you're not regulating it, as Commissioner Sandberg said, based on any kind of content. It doesn't matter if it's a positive or a negative. It's, there are no comments. This is, we're only utilizing this to be able to get out correct information to the public, just like as if you had a bulletin board. And then, you know, kind of, to the mayor, to your comment too, is that it's going to be uniform. So, it'll be across all platforms, including FIRE. And there will, you know, the information on kind of why this decision was made and what it encompasses will be linked there. So, there will be a clear communication of that to the public. And I think that as far as, you know, I know Sue mentioned that there may be folks that say, you know, this is a First Amendment issue. It's not a First Amendment issue, because you're not regulating their content. This, in no way, is a regulation of content. They are free to think what they want to think. They're free to post anything that they want to post on their sites. They're free to email you and say whatever their concern is. There's lots of different ways of expression. So, it's just that you're not going to accept the comment from this particular avenue you're directing towards others. Thank you. One more thing I forgot to add too is that people, residents, the public, will still be able to direct message us through, like, Instagram, Nextdoor, Facebook, and we respond to those or we'll get the right response from whatever department we need. Okay. Great. I think, do you have another question? She just answered it. I did? Oh, you just answered it? Okay. Good, good, good. Okay. And I think Commissioner Gow has another question. Yeah. Thank you, Mayor. Yeah, Sue, I'm, to kind of piggyback on what Commissioner Sandbergen was talking about and those residents that aren't providing all the negative feedback, but they really do have, like I often do, follow-up questions, right? You see the post, because it's very hard on Facebook, on any individual post, to encompass everything that we're trying to think about, about that post. And I know that we, communication has changed. And, Mayor, there is a question here. Okay. I was confident. That it used to be whenever you had, you wanted to contact a company about something, you called, got an operator, said, hey, here's what, and they direct, they transferred your call. And now we've gone to, if your concerns are about this, press one. Concerns about this, press two, et cetera, et cetera. And we all hate that. And that does not better communication for the people reaching out to those companies. Now, it's wonderful for those companies, because a lot of those calls end up getting dropped. They just get frustrated, and they just never reach out. And so, in that framework, how do we encompass those people? And I know that we've got that contact commission page. And if they don't want to contact, because a lot of the emails that we get, we end up passing on, right, to a professional in one of the departments or on to the city manager and deputy city manager. So, they aren't really things that we relate to. It keeps us connected with the public, but it doesn't help that resident get the answer that they want. And so, I'm wondering if, on that contact commission page, if they don't want to contact the commission, right, then go to the department, and once you have them... There is a question coming? There is. There is. It's in faith now. Okay. It is in faith. Because what it is, is, to me, when you say, go to that department, go to this tab, go to this tab, to me, it's that same as press one, press two, press three. And when you've got the contact commission page, instead of contact commission, it's got all the contacts there. So, we have a contact page, instead of going from department to department, it's like, hey, if you need, if it's parks and recs, here's the email. If it's utilities, here's the email. And they don't have to hunt for that utility page or the parks and rec page. That's a really good idea. And, you know, part of the problem is people don't know what department to contact often. The emails that I get through the website now, the communications at Dunedin.gov, people don't know there, or, and the other thing, we have to make sure that our staff is answering their phones, right? We have to make sure people answer phones and that calls are returned, emails are returned. And, and I think for the most part, we do a really good job with that. But back to the, so there's two different things. It's contact, you know, if you're looking to contact the commission, but what we're looking at now is turning off comments. And those comments are usually not questions that would go to the commission. They're comments that are, and if they are about, like, for example, let's go back to the swim lessons, right? The information's in the post. The phone number is in the post. The link to the page with all the information is in the post. So it's really now up to you. It's not, you know, you have to take responsibility and accountability to know that, okay, read the post, phone numbers in the post, rather than me just typing a question into that thread and expecting someone to answer it no matter what day or time it is. If I really want that answer, I should click the link or I should make that phone call as a mom, as, as, as whatever, whatever you're doing. I'm just going to use that as an example because that's a frequent thing that we see. And, and, and that's a fabulous response and thank you, but it, it, it still ties back to separate and contact the commission just so we can forward their email somewhere else. Yes. You know what? We're going to, we're going to look at that. I really like that. I think what we'll do is on that page, we'll have a list of, you know, we'll, we'll put every, like, department and it can link back to that page. So then that contact page, we'll, we, I'll, I'll talk to Rebecca today and we'll, we'll figure out, that's, that's a really good suggestion though. Thank you. Actually, that helps with some of what my concern was, which is good. Yeah. So I do want to remind people, though, I'm sorry, this isn't a question, but I just have to say it, getting stuck on all this, the, the phone trees that you do in this world now, which is insane and so irritating, you can call our central line in Dunning City Hall and actually get a person answering the phone. I mean, and it's like, because we are turning into a world that you can't get a person anymore. Um, okay, so, uh, on that note, I will open this up to the public, if anyone in the public wishes to come forward and provide comment or question, okay, seeing no one, sure, you, okay, name and address for the, uh, for the record and three minutes. Hello, I'm in my 1617 Brook Drive in Dunedin, of course. Is the microphone on? His microphone is on, yes. Is it on? Is it on? By the way, it's hard to hear you guys when you're, when I'm in the back of the room here. It's good to know. I, I, I came down here today to, uh, represent the 67,000 people on Facebook that, uh, that are interested and I thought the room would be full and it is not, uh, because, because I only see you guys when I was online. I was listening to you this morning and, uh, you guys always take care of this stuff. Just, just fantastic. So, so I'm not too worried about that at all. Uh, but as the old retired fat guy, um, I'm not concerned about this at all. And I've spent, uh, the last 50 years in IT. I'm not, I'm not new to this. I get most of my information off the internet. Uh, I don't concentrate with Dunedin's Facebook page because the signal to noise ratio is terrible. So, and I think that's what you're curing here today. I don't know what, what drove you over the cliff making you. You just had to do this, but something happened. So, anyway, anyway, I, I, I don't care. I, I think if you do away with comments, it, it, it doesn't hurt at all. I know how to get in touch with all of you, uh, as a group or individually by email. That information is on our website. Works great. I, I've never had it not work. So, anyway, thank you all for what you're getting done. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. Very helpful comments. We appreciate that. I know I want you to, but yeah. Okay. All right. On that note, we are going to close public comment. Well, I'll, anyone else in the audience wish to come forward and speak on this issue? Seeing no one, I will close the issue to public comment. And I will go to final comments and I will start with vice mayor. Well, thank you, mayor. You know, I, uh, I, I frequently said that, you know, what makes this process work is community and resident engagement. And, um, you know, because at the end of the day, we represent our residents and their opinion, their feedback, their ideas matter. With that said, we have a number of channels of communication here that lend themselves to be much more constructive than social media. And I will be, I would be remiss if I said that just, you know, just taking a snapshot in time and let's just say the last several months, you know, it's, it's been nasty. It's been, it's been horrible. And it's been not relevant to the message that we were trying to put out in the first place. And what my concern is, and so, you know, that aside, that particular behavior, what that ends up doing is, is it ends up just diminishing what we are trying to accomplish through public information. And this becomes especially critical when we start talking about things that pertain to the storm season coming up. Um, you know, it would comes, it's, you know, I, I, it's, it's, it's a shame that it's come to this, but I, you know, I, for one, I, this is, this is the right thing to do. And, and actually the engagement piece, so I can go full circle on what I'm, I'm saying here is there are far better ways to engage. And I don't think there's, I, I, and I, I appreciate the gentleman's comment with regards to, he knows how to get ahold of us. Well, so do 38,000, well, not, I mean, not 38,000 people, but, uh, you know, there, they certainly get ahold of me and, uh, um, you know, so, and I, you know, I'm appreciative of that. And I, I think, you know, it's, it, it, it makes us all better when it's done constructively. So anyway, that's how I feel about that. Thank you. Uh, commissioner Sandberg and final comments. You know, it's probably just a handful of people that have brought us here today. And, uh, I, I think for myself, a couple of things that I've picked up on, you know, you go to the restaurant, you don't like the food instead of telling them, you go on social media and you tell the whole world. Well, that's not really fair. You know, somebody once told me, somebody here in town, the customer's not always right because that means my restaurant is always wrong. But you get that one person that does it. Uh, I know I, I, I try to avoid reading what we're talking about, but, uh, when, you know, and I can only speak for myself and I may be speaking for my colleagues, but there was a, uh, a posting that said that started out, I tried to play nice or we tried to play nice. I can only speak for myself, but that's not really going to make me really look out for it. So I'm not going to, I'm not going to go any further with that. But, uh, when I'm looking for a place to park was a true one during this, during the, during the baseball season. And, uh, I get it that your office just cannot respond and say, well, I saw two parking spots down the street. And, and I get, I get that. And it has just turned it into, into, into Google, like the, the swimming lessons thing. I, you know, it's just, I think there's a group of people that, you know, that have just become so used to throwing it out there and let somebody else answer it for them. And in this case, it's you. And, uh, and there was another incident where, uh, a resident, I don't think it may, maybe not a resident, maybe, but someone took a shot at, um, the appearance of one of our city employees. And I didn't appreciate that. I didn't appreciate that, but I never thought it would come down to where we're going to discontinue. Um, but I guess it's, it's the right thing. I mean, almost like taking it back to elementary school that, you know, a couple of people ruined it for everybody. So I, I know it's the right thing at the end of the day, it's the right thing. So I will fully support this. And, uh, but I do feel sorry for the people that use it as a tool, a positive communication tool and say good things about the city. So I'll stop there, mayor. It's all good. Um, commissioner Gow final comments. Uh, thank you, mayor. Actually, and I, again, I echo the comments that have already been made and certainly I'm disappointed that we're taking action, uh, because of the noise that's out there. And to paraphrase Howard, right. It's that content noise ratio. And, and a lot of times the noise ends up taking over the content and the information you're trying to put, put out there. Uh, uh, uh, so I, I agree. I do fully support this. Sorry. It came to this, but we have produced other avenues that we are incredibly, uh, able to be, be contacted in several different platforms. So thank you, Sue. Okay. Commissioner DeGuard final comments. Thank you, mayor. Um, I think there is a basic definition problem. We view Facebook as a communications tool. It was never designed as a communications tool. I mean, I have significant, significant enough history and knowledge to know how it got started. Started at Harvard university. It was called Facebook because they had the photos of all the women they could get out of the yearbook on a single website. And they voted on who the best ones to date were. That's where it started. And it hasn't improved since. No, I have no sympathy for the Facebook or social media world that allows asymmetrical communication. Now, what do I mean by asymmetrical communication? It allows a individual to act like something bigger they are and cause angst and get magnified because that is monetizable. That's where we are. I'm surprised it took us this long to get rid of it. I really don't even like the fact that we have to hold open a Facebook page because it supports a system that undermines democracy. And I don't have any misgivings about this whatsoever. Thank you, Mayor. Wow. That was great. I mean, you know, you're right. I started to make my notes about, you know, this whole thing has been driven to such a craziness. It's controlling our world, our nation, our everything. And it's like, so we can either get control of it because it's clearly in control of us. There's no question about it. And it's getting worse all the time. So I think this is a great move. I think it's an important move. Like I said down in my paper, it's no longer a productive platform for input. The only reason I even have it myself is because as an elected official, I kind of have to. But it is a rabbit hole of distractions and negativity that distract you from the real message. Like I tell people, like when I'm running for election and I want to hear what's going on, don't go down the rabbit hole of Facebook. Go door to door. Talk to people. Go to the different things that people go to. Go to our events. Just chat with people. Shake their hand. Don't go to Facebook. You're going to find out what nine negative people want you to know. And that is not where you find out what the people of Dunedin really feel and think about our community. So I'm 100% about it. It's become a complete distraction to our messaging. We have tons of other ways that we've brought them all up. And you can still just call. We don't even list that. But you can still just call. You get a person. I will call you back. I guarantee you my colleagues will call you back. The city manager will call you back. You will get a call back. I mean, we care about this community. I love what you said. You know, people find us all the time. You know, they do. And trust me, it's the most important thing we all do. And it's the most important thing that I love the most about this job is helping, you know, the everyday citizen just figure out a problem and solve solutions. I guarantee you Facebook is not about solving problems. It is about creating distraction and negativity. And I think that, and I know you've gone off many cliffs. You didn't just fall off one cliff. You're just on the, you're on the cliffs of more now. And you have gone to the bottom. And you're over it. And it, because it's not helpful. And it's not getting our citizens what we need. And honestly, I think it, you know, just in everyday life, it causes us all so much distraction. You know, you all will remember back on election day, national election day, when an issue was going on. And it just was like going crazy on, on Facebook. And finally, somebody emailed me. And I emailed them back with the factual answer. And things calmed down. So, and I tell people at everything I go to now, all my presentations, you can call me, you can text me, you can, well, some people have my cell phone. A lot of people do. You can call me, you can email me, you, you, you can, you know, you, here's all the ways that you can get, you know, to all of us. The one thing I won't do, I will not respond on Facebook. And do you know the looks I get from the crowd? Good for you. Because everybody's over it. And every, I think everybody gets it. Yes, we will get some negativity, but I think this is about fair communication and lots of ways for people to provide their input, good and bad. And we open that. We have forums for that all day long. So, I'm completely in favor of it. And I did want to make sure, you know, again, first and foremost, what I love about our citizen and business surveys every other year is it's a very, you know, more scientific way to make sure we're hearing from everybody. And in a way that's not been filtered with all this distraction. So, so I'm in favor of it. And I know that you don't actually, we don't do action here. So, so it sounds like we have a consensus. We have a consensus. Okay. We do. Thank you, Mayor. Okay. As long as, as long as fires, you know, gotta, you know, be the same way. And I think legally that's important, right? Yeah. So, it is, well, and this is an administrative policy that is reaching out across all departments, which would include fire. Yeah. And, and saying that, I mean, I've, I've never seen anything but great stuff off that Facebook. So, it, you know, I love our fire department. They know it. So, okay. May I ask one thing? May I ask? Sure. How soon, how soon will this be implemented right now? This afternoon. Yeah. We're ready. Okay. We're ready to help. We'll be disseminating the, the statements, um, to all of you, to staff, to admins, whatnot. Okay. That's all in, Mayor. For the, when the, you know, the calls do come in. Um, so, yeah, it'll be, it'll be this afternoon. Yes. Well, I think the, go ahead, Sue. And, no, and Commissioner, I just wanted, like, you know, the parking, we take, we take such, um, intent and every week and every month that we plan our content strategically, um, based on everything that's happening. And we put out, like, where to park, you know, information all the time. We've got videos. We've got graphics. We've got posts. And that's another great example. We do that. Like, whenever we post, like, the garage, right, the Grand Street garage, we have these negative people. Oh, there's no parking there ever. There's, you know. And, and that doesn't do any value. That just continues to discourage people from actually finding, you know. So, it, you know, we, we will continue to put out messaging, videos, um, social media posts with links, with how to find more information. And then it really is up to that user, you know, to go in and, like, okay, let me look at that map. Let me look at that parking map. Oh, there are a lot of parking lots. So, um, so it, it, it is, you know, it, it does, we have to take responsibility ourselves, you know, to find information, especially when it's served to you that way. Okay, I think you have what you need. So, um, thank you very much. Thank you for your comments, Howard. Appreciate that. Um, okay, so we're going to informational items. Anything, Michelle, uh, Jennifer, Jennifer, and anyone else have anything? And we'll have citizen comments. I mean, our comments again on Thursday. So, um, okay. Uh, anyway, I've been gone for 10 days. Nice to be back in town. I did feel rested and relaxed until that social media discussion. That just, is there something about Facebook that makes you crazy? Yeah. I thought it was your agenda briefing. I think this meeting is adjourned. Thank you. Thank you. You did.